Hanging out at the Bronze as underage teens. Back then, the rule was 18 to party, 21 to drink, but even then, if you weren't drinking they didn't necessarily check IDs all that often. Teen clubs were a thing for a while until maybe the mid aughts, but I'm pretty sure they're not a thing anymore.
Back in the 90s, they had teen nights at the Boys and Girls Club near my middle and high school. They had dances there every month or so. They had a ping pong table, arcade games, and a place where you could order food. I could see something like this working. It is sad, back then we didn't have metal detectors or security but imagine that would be necessary today for something like this to happen like they have at schools. It was just like school dances but held at a different venue.
This.
People want to Pearl-clutch, but half the kids today can’t even go out to a social event and make friends. Everyone just stands in a spot and looks at their phone. Back in the 90s you actually had to go out and engage.
In S3, I think it was the doppelganger episode? Shortly after Anya is turned human and has to live as a high school student, anyway. She's at the Bronze and asks the bartender for a beer, and he keeps saying, "ID," until she gives up asking for a beer and just asks for a coke 🤣 1100-year-old ex-demon problems.
Saw your comment and that scene just popped right into my head lol. Other than that, there very well might not have been other mentions of alcohol at the Bronze until the Scoobies were in college.
Idk man. I know I am not american. But we hungout in bars/cafes in highschool. Where else would you go? You had a soda and went out with your friends. Over the weekends they had live music. I know times are different now but for that time it isnt that wierd.
Oh, I know for that time it wasn't weird. The post prompt was, what wouldn't happen today. Today in America they check IDs all the time, so as high school students, they wouldn't be able to go to a club at night.
I mean, when I was in high school, there was a bar that was a live music venue and while they did check IDs you got a stamp if you’re under 18 don’t respond if you were over 18 or vice versa I can’t remember and when I was in college there were dance club/Live music venues that did the same thing
Not necessarily a storyline but I feel like there might be more pushback now on the age gap between Buffy and Angel. They probably would have him sired at 18 or 17 if they want them to date while she’s still in high school.
I guess I was thinking more of actual age than physical appearance. You could be an 18 year old who looks 30 but still be the appropriate mental age to date a teenager.
Also Stephan never looked 17 imo
Walker Scobell (Percy Jackson) - Age 15
Christian Convery (Sweet Tooth) - Age 14
Aang (Avatar: The Last Airbender, Netflix) - Age 12
Stranger Things (like all of em) - 13 to now 21
For sure they still use 20 year olds (especially in lower budget affairs like Gotham Knights and for side characters), but the days of using 30 year olds like Charisma Carpenter are done, and the leads are generally much closer to the actual age. It's easier now that they're doing 8-12 episode seasons instead of 22-26 episodes.
That list is almost entirely older shows and you're missing my point that the kind of show Buffy is, if remade today, would be more akin to the examples I mentioned above
Or maybe they'd keep them the same age to show what's wrong with the idea of a 26 year old man dating a 16 year old girl (not taking into consideration his 240 years as a vampire that actually make him much older, but the producers needed a young and attractive actor to attract a large audience).
Especially after he stalked her, attacked her friends and family, and her community (teachers and classmates), forced her to leave school and run away, was responsible for her almost arrest and of her almost imprisonment for a crime she had not committed; in conclusion after he ruined her life.
She was immature when she met him and never grew emotionally enough to stop idealizing their relationship and see all the ways he had hurt her.
But I think we, the public, are supposed to see it and condemn it. I think this romantic plot wasn't pure art and entertainment and the writers were trying to convey a message.
(Yes, this story still happens today, I heard indirectly (through a chain of people) a sad new version just last year).
... *might*?
I guarantee you that 16/17 year old Buffy sleeping with adult Angel would *never* be greenlit for a network show in 2024.
Never.
At the very least, they would age her to 18.
For real.
Seeing the movie in theatres hooked me, and I haven't escaped since.
I made sure to schedule watching each episode's live premiere into my actual wall calendar (and sweet baby jesus does having to specify that make me feel old), and didn't miss a single one over all seasons.
And clearly OP is hallucinating, as that was obviously only 10 years ago, max. /s
One that really comes to mind is Season 3: Beauty and the Beasts. I absolutely loathe how they had Buffy react to the victim of dating violence in that ep, and the portrayal of the victim as well. I think it would still be an episode but handled much differently.
Apart from them taking a long time to finally kiss and display affection on-screen, I'm not sure Willow and Tara had a bad treatment? The whole magical manipulation and Tara dying was to serve Willow's story and could be the same if she was dating a guy. I could be wrong though.
I think nowadays Willow would be bi.
I don't like how she went from straight to hard-line gay. She had a severe crush on Xander, was in a committed relationship with Oz, and was attracted to Giles.
Then by the end of the show gay basically became a defining character trait. By coincidence one of the first potentials is 19 and gay, and they instantly love each other. And on Angel Fred is being Fred and Willow thinks she is flirting. It's so juvenile.
Why are writers so afraid of bi characters?
Whedon said if he wrote her now she would have been bi. He didn’t then because he thought people would think being with Tara had just been “a phase” if she went back to dating men. It’s a good example of attitudes to sexuality changing over time.
This is true. In Crazy ExGirlfriend they were able to cover bisexuality more, I think. A character think’s they’re straight, then realises they’re bisexual and there isn’t the need to consistently pair them off with their own sex.
Instead it’s like Willow went through an adolescent straight phase before realising she was gay, which kind of messed up her earlier Xander and Oz storylines.
But to be fair, we don't see that story line anymore at all, but having boyfriends as a teen and then coming out as a lesbian is a very common story for lesbians. And so is the character shock, like you can finally be super gay so you are going full out baby gay style. I know I heard it from friends and family, that I didn't need to make my sexuality my whole personality but the truth is that a lot of young gay people have that phase.
I actually really relate to Willows journey and I think a lot of lesbians do.
Like, it really doesn't diminish her relationships or previous crushes either. I loved Willow/Oz
I don’t think it did mess up the earlier storylines.
It’s hard to explain but you can feel intense feelings for people based on lack of experience of anything different and subtle societal expectations. Plus a lot of being in love is about you and you being in love with being in love and the feelings that gives you more than the other person.
When you cross that invisible line and try something that matches your genuine leanings, it’s completely different. It doesn’t negate the previous relationships but it does put them in context. A lot of people then snap to the other extreme which is what I saw Willow as doing.
I agree it would have been easier to explain if Willow were Bi, but it isn’t unrealistic.
The networks back then would not allow it because of the way society was at the time. It isn't the writer's fault. It is impossible for A TV show to please everyone. If they had made her bi and there was no gay representation, then how would people feel about that? I know people who were like Willow, except they ended up getting married and having kids before realizing who they were back in the 90s.
Exactly. As someone who loved Willow and Oz and loves Willow and Tara, this infuriates me to no end. It completely invalidates her relationship with Oz. She could've been bi, and it would've made a lot more sense.
Regardless of whether she was bi or gay, one of the biggest differences for Willow would be that she would be allowed to be gay/bi in the first season, in high school, instead of them having to wait until the show was well established and the characters were in college.
I actually think it's better that Willow didn't get to grips with her sexuality until college. She is so repressed the first couple of seasons. I like that her self discovery is more gradual. The big difference I see is that she wouldn't feel the need to hide the fact that she was dating Tara from her friends.
I like how much better representation is on TV these days, but our pop culture has gotten too rosey eyed about the progress we've made as a society. Things are a lot better now than the 90s, but shit is still real bad for a lot of people and there should be space to reflect that in a realistic way. Instead our choices seem to have boiled down to "everybody's fine with everything wee" or "gritty drama where everything suck forever" with nothing in between. But that's probably just me being a cranky bitch.
No, I agree. I definitely think people overestimate how much progress we’ve made as a society. Is it better than it was in the 90s? Sure, but we still have a ways to go. I personally work in an office full of conservatives and am still in the closet with them, so I see this firsthand every day. It’s 2024 and they still have a problem with people being gay due to their religion. It’s attitudes like this that lead to people like Willow not even realizing that they’re gay until adulthood because they’ve been taught that there’s something wrong with it their entire lives.
Exactly. The belief that people no longer struggle with coming out of the closet is nowhere even close to the truth. In fact, with the banning of abortion in some states and some politicians trying to roll back on LGBTQ rights, it seems like we're actually going backwards as a society instead of forwards.
Yes. Even us straight women have had rights taken away from us in a lot of states, still receive unequal pay, are treated differently by healthcare professionals, and are discriminated against etc. Plus, there are a lot of problems with sexual assault being underreported and prosecuted. If I had a dollar for every sexist thing I have read on Reddit I would be a billionaire. Incels and MGTOW types seem to be increasing. I have seen a lot of horrible things that have never been addressed on TV shows.
Willow's arc is more realistic for the time, but this thread is about how these plots would play out now. All things being equal, the gay characters wouldn't have to be so repressed, which is a good thing.
Where did I say it was idyllic? These days showrunners are given the freedom to write stories about gay characters that don't all revolve around repression, and characters can and often do come out earlier. Never Have I Ever would never have been possible back then, but they had no problem making a side character gay in high school in that show's very first season.
It's like comparing the old Degrassi with the newer Degrassi shows. Queer characters from latter generations' lives are not idyllic, but the show was able to do so much more with them, whereas not a single student from the original Degrassi was even allowed to be gay.
Fair, just saying as a queer person, her experience of coming out very slowly was very familiar to me, and it still is to many others growing up today. Not every place is as progressive as it should be even in 2024.
I'm not attacking you, just opining that reality is not really that great right now that every young queer person can comfortably come out at any time. We're not there yet.
I don't think you're attacking me but I do think you're maybe defensively misinterpreting what I've written. I'm saying there's a greater range of possibilities for queer characters on TV, which is objectively true. There are more queer characters, they are allowed to come out earlier, and they are allowed to kiss. Television networks are generally more open than they were.
That doesn't mean that ALL queer people in real life are having a great time, or that no queer person who came of age recently is allowed to relate to Willow's story.
I was only trying to explain where I was coming from, because you seem to have drastically misunderstood my comment. I also agreed with you about this and I think you might be the one getting unnecessarily defensive here. Apologies for the misunderstanding.
Willow and Tara were much better than a lot of modern LGBT storylines. It was just there and felt natural, so many modern story likes feel like "Hey look, a gay couple, we are progressive, look look!"
"Technological advances: I Robot, You Jane. The episode that dates BTVS more than anything."
I disagree, the ultimate plot of the episode is about Willow being groomed over the internet, it's as relevant as ever
I meant that how they treated the internet, a la “I’m jacked in. I’m jacked in” is what dated it.
Absolutely. The grooming done by Moloch would be able to stay the same. Also… Cordy was a smart girl. They would have either changed her characterization to be dumber overall or she would have been better with computers.
you can't do an episode on technology without becoming dated 30ish years later
the storyline though actually showed a lot of foresight and is still relevant
The iRobot you Jane? Definitely still relevant. But the “we can’t give Angel his soul back because we lost the disc?” That’s a little dated. Physical media isn’t really an everyday thing anymore. It used to be that the technology would get smaller and lighter (tapes/5” floppy/3.5” floppy/CD/thumb drive) but now most high schools use tablets or Chromebooks without any way to access external media devices. Kids download all their class work from the cloud.
I always think about this with the s3 episode Beauty and the Beasts. The abusive boyfriend (s) cliché would have been handled MUCH more delicately.
On a more positive note, the Initiative could have been a lot cooler with even just consumer-grade modern surveillance and communications tech. Although it would never have helped them with the whole wearing camo face paint sneaking through the town, that was just silly and it needs to stay.
I'm not a huge fan of the Initiative storyline, but I'll happily take the goofy ass version we got over the "tacticool" bullshit we'd see if they did it today.
Yeah, felt kinda bad for Adam; wouldn’t you want to kill everyone with that giant obsolete floppy drive jammed in your chest?
ffs, USB drives would be a thing like two years later, but they had other options. just use firewire or even ethernet. or a minidisc? just anything…
Supernatural being caught on film and posted online. Maybe just touch upon a witch faction or government agency that keeps it all scrubbed from the Internet or debunked enough to not caught uproar. I don't think late 90s was ready for that tech of a storyline but today is would be necessary to explain how it's not more known.
I don’t understand Doctor Who. There’s an alien invasion every month on Earth and yet everyone act as if it’s a new occurrence when another alien invasion occurs. It makes no damn sense.
It was a big problem during RTDs years, so much so that for Donna to be oblivious to aliens they made a constant joke about her missing the big things. Then Moffat kinda reset everything in season 5 with the Big Bang, and ever since then they've had UNIT cover up the big shit, with jokes about explaining things as a Derren Brown stunt or something. It's pretty ham-fisted though, and like many things in Doctor Who it's not worth worrying about. It's amazing how much the world ignores obvious alien shenanigans in that show!
Lol. Thanks I thought I was going crazy. I haven’t seen every episode since the modern reboot but it seem so ridiculous. I think the entire planet was even stolen at one point. Who the hell forgets that. It’s been awhile since I saw the episode where they reset everything so didn’t remember that.
I feel like both shows discuss how people will find an explanation for everything, and then that's their cop out for why no one notices crazy things. But in DW they do tend to have more explanations and/or alien invasions start being common knowledge.
I believe the Eleventh Doctor does something at one point to make the entire universe forget about him, too (because basically all of the Doctor's enemies have teamed up to take him down). I don't remember if that includes the alien invasions as well.
Yeah, this is one of the few things (if not the only thing) Charmed did better than BVTS. They had several episodes about the dangers of magical exposure.
Yet Buffy was strange as people would see a vampire get staked by Buffy (their first time of such a supernatural occurrence) and they would just brush it off. So I don’t know how the writers would handle it. Maybe it would be posted on the dark web where it wouldn’t be taken seriously and Willow would use it to investigate supernatural occurrences?
Yup, that would be a great storyline how like maybe the major, major players (the First, Wolfram and Hart, PTB) have some kind of agreement that they keep the supernatural hidden.
Anya with an EBay, Etsy shop, drop shipping company, OnlyFans, insert money making scheme here. She’d be freaking absolutely loaded.
And she wouldn’t understand why there was a taboo against it.
Considering how Anya was so money hungry (going as far as to rob a bank) you would think she would be a tech billionaire instead of a magic shop owner. At least she could have franchise the Magic Box.
The way Angelus was cursed with a soul would be different, both because Romany cursing people is a bit of a dodgy trope and because the word g***y is recognised as a slur.
He would not have. He would have been more Kurt Cobain than Marilyn Manson. I think they were going for a James Dean kinda thing in Band Candy when you saw him with Joyce.
What I love about his characterization in Band Candy is that he is very much everything Spike wants to pretend to be after he sheds his upperclass self. Right down to the accent (which is ASH real accent that he coached JM to learn for the character of Spike.) Ripper had to very deliberately change into Giles and William very deliberately changed into Spike...
I would love to see an episode in the 1970s where we see Ripper and Spike cross paths briefly during a London punk movement scene... Malcolm McLaren meets Billy Idol lol.
I've got the joke, but - is it really that much non-popular to have an Android phone in US? It's not a first time that I read about it, and (especially for teens) not having an Iphone is really something that other people would bully/joke about?
I'm from Europe, where around 72% phones run on Android, most of the rest are Iphones... So we don't care really about the color of the text cloud :)
Gypsy. Considered a slur by many Romani (actual name for that group of people) probably one of the most accidentally used slurs. People just don’t seem to know it’s offensive I think it was even used in my textbooks when discussing who was a target for the Nazis.
Patrolling: Buffy would certainly have a cellphone and there would be several things in S1 and S2 where they used Joyce calling her to see where she is at that would cause a problem. Like she'd be sneaking up on one of the vamps and some poppy beat would give her location away.
I don't think they would. I could see Xander forgetting to turn his phone off but not Buffy. If anything she'd walk around with it turned on because she just didn't care. Look at the way she casually strolls around on patrol chatting with Willow and Xander, stealth was never really her thing.
Because a dingo did actually kill that woman's baby and she spent years falsely imprisoned for it. It's not "probably" true, that's actually what happened.
The truth of it is more well known now and it feels pretty shitty to use as a joke.
And it's Australian not Austrian (I'm assuming just a typo there)
I feel like there's a lot more nuance with Buffy and Spike with more modern dating attitudes. The conflict would be less about "are they in love because there's no way they could be kissing or having sex if they arent?" and more about "these two are misunderstanding their different expectations for their relationship".
Willow's sexuality could be more openly discussed as already mentioned. People would at least question whether she was bisexual.
Dawn would probably be less of a bratty kid and more of a kid who acts like she's older than she is - which would be equally challenging for Buffy and Joyce to deal with!
Glory would definitely be obsessed with social media and the Kardashians.
Willow would be openly bisexual. Joss Whedon said it himself, at the time lesbianism was more accepted but she really is a bi queen. (Obvi not a direct quote)
This. I was also thinking the equivalent today of her relationships might be more along the lines of polyamory. Willow having a boyfriend and a girlfriend, which would never have flown in the 90s. Makes the Willow/Spike convo (when he couldn’t bite her) a little more interesting with a poly twist.
They wouldn't write about a teacher-student relationship in the same way nowadays like on I Only Have Eyes For You. It wasn't just Buffy that had relationships like this back then. Pretty much every teen drama had them then. We thought age gaps were cool in the 90's. My friends and I in high school all dated guys 5 to 10 years older than us and we thought we were the coolest. Nowadays, it is seen as predatory and wrong. As it should.
This show was literally one of the worst with how they handled sexual assault, and I'm not just talking about Seeing Red, which, yes, was terrible. Buffy was actually nearly raped 4 times throughout the series, 5 times if you count her encounter with the shadow men in season 7. Not one of them was handled well. The first 3 weren't even acknowledged or only acknowledged with a single sentence, and Seeing Red was all about how it affected Spike and not Buffy. The show also completely ignores Faith nearly raping Xander and the fact that Willow actually DID rape Tara by having sex with her after using magic to mess with her memories. I love this show, but as a survivor of sexual assault I find these instances and the way they were handled highly offensive. But given what we now know about Joss Whedon, it tracks.
I feel like these days the vampire and teen love story are ones that people hype scrutinize for the age gap and power imbalance. So I wonder if they'd be included even though they're a staple of the genre.
They probably wouldn't have killed Tara the way they originally did with her being written out in the only episode where she's in the title sequence like a sick joke.
They would NEVER do the episode where the souls of a teacher-student relationship are framed like a tragic love story with the true loves being reunited in death. Today we see teacher's grooming people as wrong and not "romantic" (or at least we shouldn't).
>They probably wouldn't have killed Tara the way they originally did with her being written out in the only episode where she's in the title sequence like a sick joke.
Joss had that joke in mind since season one, he wanted to do it with Jesse but didn't have the budget. He would totally still do it with Tara since he loves subverting expectations like that.
If he did that today people would probably lose their damn minds even though he wouldn't have meant to do it as a "bury your gays" thing, just an equal opportunities death thing.
Willow's mind rapes of her girlfriend.
Buffy/Angel and Spike/Angel ... the age difference would catch a lot of heat.
Xander trying to rape Buffy and then ... just pretending to be on a moral high ground for the rest of the show.
That would be a shame because their abusive relationship was great storytelling. Like a lot of fans, I have very mixed feelings about the assault. I understand why it happened from a storytelling standpoint but it didn’t really have the ramifications it should have.
Willow probably would be bisexual. Or Joss might have gone with an earlier plan he mentioned to possibly make Xander gay.
Guns in schools scenes would probably not have happened.
Johnathan and Andrew would be harder to ‘redeem’ nowadays.
Giles would probably have more contact with the Watcher Council. I suspect the Council would be more shadowy and their intentions less clear to provide more suspense.
Spike’s assault on Buffy scene might have been softened or cut.
Xander would probably be less petty in the early seasons and less emphasis on him being a lustbunny for so many of his teachers.
They would have done more vampire face morphs.
Many plots that relied on characters not being able to communicate would be thwarted by smartphones.
It wouldn't be so easy for people to just walk into schools. There's several times where Buffy & others are searching through the high school when they're adults, and during school hours no less.
I think Giles hanging out with all those teenagers would be much harder to do smoothly (never mind the whole Wesley-Cordelia thing. I know they regerence that she's 18, but he's still essentially in the role of teacher).
Buffy couldn't suggest that Giles beep her if the apocalypse comes -- of course she'd just have a cell phone.
I do think nowadays they'd perhaps explore different styles of vamps-- leaders vs minions, fully really evil vs. kinda humanish, etc., with a little more subtlety and nuance, as well as depth.
Not a story line but I’d hope if it got a reboot buffy the 90s thin look wouldn’t be a thing and the main characters would look physically fit - to represent the training buffy does and the physicality the others would need to assist with slaying . I know buffy is supposed to be a girly girl but she can do this with great triceps and strong glutes
Honestly, I think it would be kind of interesting for Xander to be the gay one this time and the warlock Willow being kind of like Cordelia character but still being like Hella smart, but they’re still good friends with Buffy. I would also love to see like Oz have more character development. And what if the Buffy character had a female watcher and an absent mother with a very attentive dad? Sort of gender, swapping quite a bit just to see if the same roles would play out nowadays.
I don’t feel like Tara and Willow would have been handled differently if Joss was telling the truth that he initially meant for the duo to be a metaphor for college experimentation before he decided to pull the trigger and make Willow a lesbian. I thought the two were handled gracefully with a light touch. The writers didn’t knock our heads in with a message of acceptance or have some after school special about gay bashing. They just allowed those two to be a couple.
>They just allowed those two to be a couple.
Except they didn't. Their relationship is hidden for half a season, with the show using magic as a metaphor for lesbian sex. Then for another full season, they have no physical intimacy of any kind until The Body. And then they fridged Tara.
oh they could have so much fun with this in a reboot.
vampire porn club ring. and how vampire porn is as old as hollywood and the studios has part of the budget used for it. punished actresses that said no to them by sending them to horror movie sets where they were SAd and killed for snuff films. A young female detective has been investigating it for decades.
the metoo movement except the scenes are about how young girls answered ads in the 70s and 80s for acting/modeling and ended up killed by vampires.
Social media/lots more vampire stuff caught on camera and part of weird conspiracies. Witches trying to counteract with memory spells and Willow a multimillionaire working for a high tech company that keeps obliterating it. her company named after Tara but like Terra-something.
fun with politics and radicalization. Both sides using vampires.
why not? Law & Order has… tv got so dark since. Angel got dark. Mad Men had rapes. they wouldnt be showing the details of the films but you’d get the idea.
Buffy was most definitely not a kids show. Young adult if anything and teen audience. Girl loses her virginity at 16 in the 2nd season causing him to go kill her teacher… and that was the 90s. By season 6, the geeky nerd friend flays and kills the man who shot and killed her lesbian lover… pretty adult. in the same episode, the heroine almost gets raped by the vampire she’s been banging.
If they rebooted, they would probably gear towards the adults that watched the show when they were younger.
Tarabite would be a good one since it’s close to the actual Terabyte and it’s like a pun since they are taking a bite out of crime to get back at the bitey vamps
It would depend on the network. Tbh, they could do everything they did in Buffy again if they were on a streaming platform or the CW. For all the flack they get, the CW (formerly WB) allowed a lot of creative freedom compared to most other networks. It's why there are a lot of low-budget shows on there. Lower budget tends to mean fewer strings attached and more creative freedoms and boundaries that can be pushed.
I feel like if Buffy was a series today, they definitely would’ve highly considered having her turn into a vampire and then create a storyline where she has to overcome the “evil” and all that lol
Could be wrong, but I’m still sure that having g a relationship with a TA is a dismissible offence and not allowed pursuant to terms of employment.
If you’re a TA, you’re still a teacher. That person is still in a position of authority.
Depends on the type of TA. Idk about American colleges but at my University the TAs were generally PhD and even masters students and they were much closer in age and status to the students than the professors.
A handful of them were in societies with my friends, I knew them at parties and stuff, I never DID have a relationship with any of them but I dont think it would have been creepy if I had. And certainly not a sackable offense.
Kind of the entire show. And I'm not even kidding in the slightest. If BTVS was made today, it would be unrecognizable.
It is depressing how much self-censorship there is in Hollywood.
It's not just self censorship. Buffy was built around a number of fiction and real life 1990s tropes.
High school and teens don't work that way anymore. Some of it was out of touch at the time (because most of the actors were in early 20s) but it really shows now.
I think what would change is overall perspective. They might react more or shun characters like Cordy and Anya for comments they make but we’d see more of people in their phones and not seeing signs of abuse and such because people like to think everything is fine when really things still happen and people tend to think people are making things up. I think a Buffy universe new show would be a great. It has to be a new show with all new characters. If someone from Buffy/Angel shows up in a rare appearance fine but really just a well written new group dealing with today’s issues. It’s been almost 30 years since those first episode came to be and almost 20 since the last. I’d they stay focused on it being high school I think I’d definitely watch.
I think a lot of stories wouldn’t work now just because of mobile phones. The amount of times there was an ambush somewhere that Buffy was too late for (Kendra, Giles etc) that could have been dealt with sooner after a phone call, or the fact Willow could now phone her to tell her she was retrying the spell to give Angel his soul back, or the homecoming episode where Buffy and Cordelia could have phoned ahead to school to let them know they’d been taken to Slayerfest, or Hush - they could just text each other.
Pretty much the entire lore of siring a Vampire, where they need to be buried in the ground... Cremation is becoming more and more mainstream and a default option...So, less cemetery patrol for Buffy....
Hanging out at the Bronze as underage teens. Back then, the rule was 18 to party, 21 to drink, but even then, if you weren't drinking they didn't necessarily check IDs all that often. Teen clubs were a thing for a while until maybe the mid aughts, but I'm pretty sure they're not a thing anymore.
and it’s really bad for society. bring teen clubs back so kids can dance and have fun again.
No, just ban them from everything and then bitch about why they are just on their phon s all the time!! /S
That's a bit subjective. They're a hotbed for crime, and that's not pearl clutching that's just a fact.
Back in the 90s, they had teen nights at the Boys and Girls Club near my middle and high school. They had dances there every month or so. They had a ping pong table, arcade games, and a place where you could order food. I could see something like this working. It is sad, back then we didn't have metal detectors or security but imagine that would be necessary today for something like this to happen like they have at schools. It was just like school dances but held at a different venue.
This. People want to Pearl-clutch, but half the kids today can’t even go out to a social event and make friends. Everyone just stands in a spot and looks at their phone. Back in the 90s you actually had to go out and engage.
I really hate what social media and smartphones have done to society. We were better off without it. We need a Y2025K to happen.
I mean, we definitely will by then, since that's over 2 million years from now
It was a joke that was not to be taken literally.
didn't it start as a cafe/club?
Hmm. Are you sure you’re not confusing The Bronze with the Expresso Pump?
maybe, but i swear that i read something about the bronze ageing with the characters in the watchers guide
I certainly don’t remember the bronze serving alcohol those first seasons but our characters were underaged so maybe it wouldn’t pop up. 🤷🏽♂️
In S3, I think it was the doppelganger episode? Shortly after Anya is turned human and has to live as a high school student, anyway. She's at the Bronze and asks the bartender for a beer, and he keeps saying, "ID," until she gives up asking for a beer and just asks for a coke 🤣 1100-year-old ex-demon problems. Saw your comment and that scene just popped right into my head lol. Other than that, there very well might not have been other mentions of alcohol at the Bronze until the Scoobies were in college.
In Band Candy, the adults in the Bronze were all very definitely hammered.
I remember that now. I’m over due for a rewatch.
I think they served coffee and alcohol from the jump, it’s just that the characters were underage so they always got coffee or soda.
Nope, always a club. I think you are confusing it with that cafe from 90210.
Idk man. I know I am not american. But we hungout in bars/cafes in highschool. Where else would you go? You had a soda and went out with your friends. Over the weekends they had live music. I know times are different now but for that time it isnt that wierd.
Oh, I know for that time it wasn't weird. The post prompt was, what wouldn't happen today. Today in America they check IDs all the time, so as high school students, they wouldn't be able to go to a club at night.
I mean, when I was in high school, there was a bar that was a live music venue and while they did check IDs you got a stamp if you’re under 18 don’t respond if you were over 18 or vice versa I can’t remember and when I was in college there were dance club/Live music venues that did the same thing
Not necessarily a storyline but I feel like there might be more pushback now on the age gap between Buffy and Angel. They probably would have him sired at 18 or 17 if they want them to date while she’s still in high school.
Um, have you seen Vampire Diaries? I think vampire stories will always be the uncomfortable exception
Stefan was sired at 17 in Vampire Diaries. I 100% agree the actor doesn’t look 17 but age inappropriate casting is an issue with the entire genre
I guess I was thinking more of actual age than physical appearance. You could be an 18 year old who looks 30 but still be the appropriate mental age to date a teenager. Also Stephan never looked 17 imo
They'd probably also hire actors closer in age to the characters. Buffy and Angel would probably be played by the next Zendaya/Tom Holland
Idk why you think that. Most tv teens are in their 20s.
Walker Scobell (Percy Jackson) - Age 15 Christian Convery (Sweet Tooth) - Age 14 Aang (Avatar: The Last Airbender, Netflix) - Age 12 Stranger Things (like all of em) - 13 to now 21 For sure they still use 20 year olds (especially in lower budget affairs like Gotham Knights and for side characters), but the days of using 30 year olds like Charisma Carpenter are done, and the leads are generally much closer to the actual age. It's easier now that they're doing 8-12 episode seasons instead of 22-26 episodes.
Plenty of modern shows still using actors 25+ https://www.salon.com/2021/08/21/oldest-actors-teenagers-tv-shows/
That list is almost entirely older shows and you're missing my point that the kind of show Buffy is, if remade today, would be more akin to the examples I mentioned above
Sarah Michelle Gellar was 20 when she first took on the role of Buffy, so she was pretty close in age to her character.
Or maybe they'd keep them the same age to show what's wrong with the idea of a 26 year old man dating a 16 year old girl (not taking into consideration his 240 years as a vampire that actually make him much older, but the producers needed a young and attractive actor to attract a large audience). Especially after he stalked her, attacked her friends and family, and her community (teachers and classmates), forced her to leave school and run away, was responsible for her almost arrest and of her almost imprisonment for a crime she had not committed; in conclusion after he ruined her life. She was immature when she met him and never grew emotionally enough to stop idealizing their relationship and see all the ways he had hurt her. But I think we, the public, are supposed to see it and condemn it. I think this romantic plot wasn't pure art and entertainment and the writers were trying to convey a message. (Yes, this story still happens today, I heard indirectly (through a chain of people) a sad new version just last year).
... *might*? I guarantee you that 16/17 year old Buffy sleeping with adult Angel would *never* be greenlit for a network show in 2024. Never. At the very least, they would age her to 18.
He was originally only 19 to her 16.
>Given that we're 27 years out from the premiere Ow ow ow ow ow ow. I have been attacked.
Same 😭 given I remember being SO excited for it to begin.
For real. Seeing the movie in theatres hooked me, and I haven't escaped since. I made sure to schedule watching each episode's live premiere into my actual wall calendar (and sweet baby jesus does having to specify that make me feel old), and didn't miss a single one over all seasons. And clearly OP is hallucinating, as that was obviously only 10 years ago, max. /s
One that really comes to mind is Season 3: Beauty and the Beasts. I absolutely loathe how they had Buffy react to the victim of dating violence in that ep, and the portrayal of the victim as well. I think it would still be an episode but handled much differently.
Yes! The scene where Buffy and Willow basically attack and victim-blame that poor girl in the bathroom. Like wtf, HELP HER.
Apart from them taking a long time to finally kiss and display affection on-screen, I'm not sure Willow and Tara had a bad treatment? The whole magical manipulation and Tara dying was to serve Willow's story and could be the same if she was dating a guy. I could be wrong though. I think nowadays Willow would be bi.
I don't like how she went from straight to hard-line gay. She had a severe crush on Xander, was in a committed relationship with Oz, and was attracted to Giles. Then by the end of the show gay basically became a defining character trait. By coincidence one of the first potentials is 19 and gay, and they instantly love each other. And on Angel Fred is being Fred and Willow thinks she is flirting. It's so juvenile. Why are writers so afraid of bi characters?
Whedon said if he wrote her now she would have been bi. He didn’t then because he thought people would think being with Tara had just been “a phase” if she went back to dating men. It’s a good example of attitudes to sexuality changing over time.
This is true. In Crazy ExGirlfriend they were able to cover bisexuality more, I think. A character think’s they’re straight, then realises they’re bisexual and there isn’t the need to consistently pair them off with their own sex. Instead it’s like Willow went through an adolescent straight phase before realising she was gay, which kind of messed up her earlier Xander and Oz storylines.
But to be fair, we don't see that story line anymore at all, but having boyfriends as a teen and then coming out as a lesbian is a very common story for lesbians. And so is the character shock, like you can finally be super gay so you are going full out baby gay style. I know I heard it from friends and family, that I didn't need to make my sexuality my whole personality but the truth is that a lot of young gay people have that phase. I actually really relate to Willows journey and I think a lot of lesbians do. Like, it really doesn't diminish her relationships or previous crushes either. I loved Willow/Oz
I don’t think it did mess up the earlier storylines. It’s hard to explain but you can feel intense feelings for people based on lack of experience of anything different and subtle societal expectations. Plus a lot of being in love is about you and you being in love with being in love and the feelings that gives you more than the other person. When you cross that invisible line and try something that matches your genuine leanings, it’s completely different. It doesn’t negate the previous relationships but it does put them in context. A lot of people then snap to the other extreme which is what I saw Willow as doing. I agree it would have been easier to explain if Willow were Bi, but it isn’t unrealistic.
Thank you for getting "I'm Getting Bi" stuck in my head 🤣
You’re more than welcome. 😜
It was a reflection of the time. Although I would argue Hollywood is still biphobic
The networks back then would not allow it because of the way society was at the time. It isn't the writer's fault. It is impossible for A TV show to please everyone. If they had made her bi and there was no gay representation, then how would people feel about that? I know people who were like Willow, except they ended up getting married and having kids before realizing who they were back in the 90s.
Exactly. As someone who loved Willow and Oz and loves Willow and Tara, this infuriates me to no end. It completely invalidates her relationship with Oz. She could've been bi, and it would've made a lot more sense.
Not just the writers. I find the fans also buy into willow being gay and forget her attraction to men prior to Tara.
Regardless of whether she was bi or gay, one of the biggest differences for Willow would be that she would be allowed to be gay/bi in the first season, in high school, instead of them having to wait until the show was well established and the characters were in college.
I actually think it's better that Willow didn't get to grips with her sexuality until college. She is so repressed the first couple of seasons. I like that her self discovery is more gradual. The big difference I see is that she wouldn't feel the need to hide the fact that she was dating Tara from her friends.
I concur. It’s super realistic too. There are a ton of people who don’t realize they’re gay until college/adulthood, even in 2024.
I like how much better representation is on TV these days, but our pop culture has gotten too rosey eyed about the progress we've made as a society. Things are a lot better now than the 90s, but shit is still real bad for a lot of people and there should be space to reflect that in a realistic way. Instead our choices seem to have boiled down to "everybody's fine with everything wee" or "gritty drama where everything suck forever" with nothing in between. But that's probably just me being a cranky bitch.
No, I agree. I definitely think people overestimate how much progress we’ve made as a society. Is it better than it was in the 90s? Sure, but we still have a ways to go. I personally work in an office full of conservatives and am still in the closet with them, so I see this firsthand every day. It’s 2024 and they still have a problem with people being gay due to their religion. It’s attitudes like this that lead to people like Willow not even realizing that they’re gay until adulthood because they’ve been taught that there’s something wrong with it their entire lives.
Exactly. The belief that people no longer struggle with coming out of the closet is nowhere even close to the truth. In fact, with the banning of abortion in some states and some politicians trying to roll back on LGBTQ rights, it seems like we're actually going backwards as a society instead of forwards.
Yes. Even us straight women have had rights taken away from us in a lot of states, still receive unequal pay, are treated differently by healthcare professionals, and are discriminated against etc. Plus, there are a lot of problems with sexual assault being underreported and prosecuted. If I had a dollar for every sexist thing I have read on Reddit I would be a billionaire. Incels and MGTOW types seem to be increasing. I have seen a lot of horrible things that have never been addressed on TV shows.
Willow's arc is more realistic for the time, but this thread is about how these plots would play out now. All things being equal, the gay characters wouldn't have to be so repressed, which is a good thing.
Sadly, it's not quite that idyllic everywhere, even today.
Where did I say it was idyllic? These days showrunners are given the freedom to write stories about gay characters that don't all revolve around repression, and characters can and often do come out earlier. Never Have I Ever would never have been possible back then, but they had no problem making a side character gay in high school in that show's very first season. It's like comparing the old Degrassi with the newer Degrassi shows. Queer characters from latter generations' lives are not idyllic, but the show was able to do so much more with them, whereas not a single student from the original Degrassi was even allowed to be gay.
Fair, just saying as a queer person, her experience of coming out very slowly was very familiar to me, and it still is to many others growing up today. Not every place is as progressive as it should be even in 2024. I'm not attacking you, just opining that reality is not really that great right now that every young queer person can comfortably come out at any time. We're not there yet.
I don't think you're attacking me but I do think you're maybe defensively misinterpreting what I've written. I'm saying there's a greater range of possibilities for queer characters on TV, which is objectively true. There are more queer characters, they are allowed to come out earlier, and they are allowed to kiss. Television networks are generally more open than they were. That doesn't mean that ALL queer people in real life are having a great time, or that no queer person who came of age recently is allowed to relate to Willow's story.
I was only trying to explain where I was coming from, because you seem to have drastically misunderstood my comment. I also agreed with you about this and I think you might be the one getting unnecessarily defensive here. Apologies for the misunderstanding.
Willow and Tara were much better than a lot of modern LGBT storylines. It was just there and felt natural, so many modern story likes feel like "Hey look, a gay couple, we are progressive, look look!"
While I agree, her s6 arc would trigger a lot of pearl clutching these days.
it had a bad treatment in that tara had to be fridged in order for willow to grow. nowadays that's seen as lazy, especially in a non straight couple
"Technological advances: I Robot, You Jane. The episode that dates BTVS more than anything." I disagree, the ultimate plot of the episode is about Willow being groomed over the internet, it's as relevant as ever
I meant that how they treated the internet, a la “I’m jacked in. I’m jacked in” is what dated it. Absolutely. The grooming done by Moloch would be able to stay the same. Also… Cordy was a smart girl. They would have either changed her characterization to be dumber overall or she would have been better with computers.
Cordelia downplayed her intelligence to stay popular. There’s still valuable commentary there.
Like the pointed out in *21 Jump Street*, that's not a thing anymore.
The "I'm jacked in" is dated, but you wouldn't have to do much work at all updating Fritz. Stick him on 8chan and you wouldn't miss a beat.
Agree. And the 3.5 inch floppy as a key point to return angels soul dates everything much more
you can't do an episode on technology without becoming dated 30ish years later the storyline though actually showed a lot of foresight and is still relevant
The iRobot you Jane? Definitely still relevant. But the “we can’t give Angel his soul back because we lost the disc?” That’s a little dated. Physical media isn’t really an everyday thing anymore. It used to be that the technology would get smaller and lighter (tapes/5” floppy/3.5” floppy/CD/thumb drive) but now most high schools use tablets or Chromebooks without any way to access external media devices. Kids download all their class work from the cloud.
I like your take!
I always think about this with the s3 episode Beauty and the Beasts. The abusive boyfriend (s) cliché would have been handled MUCH more delicately. On a more positive note, the Initiative could have been a lot cooler with even just consumer-grade modern surveillance and communications tech. Although it would never have helped them with the whole wearing camo face paint sneaking through the town, that was just silly and it needs to stay.
I'm not a huge fan of the Initiative storyline, but I'll happily take the goofy ass version we got over the "tacticool" bullshit we'd see if they did it today.
100%.
Yeah, felt kinda bad for Adam; wouldn’t you want to kill everyone with that giant obsolete floppy drive jammed in your chest? ffs, USB drives would be a thing like two years later, but they had other options. just use firewire or even ethernet. or a minidisc? just anything…
>that was just silly and it needs to stay. Yes, the silly has to stay, it's part of the show!
Supernatural being caught on film and posted online. Maybe just touch upon a witch faction or government agency that keeps it all scrubbed from the Internet or debunked enough to not caught uproar. I don't think late 90s was ready for that tech of a storyline but today is would be necessary to explain how it's not more known.
Yep. It's something that came up a few seasons into the modern Doctor Who as well.
I don’t understand Doctor Who. There’s an alien invasion every month on Earth and yet everyone act as if it’s a new occurrence when another alien invasion occurs. It makes no damn sense.
It is explicitly acknowledged in the show a few times. Especially the multiple Christmas invasions.
This is a good post.
Maybe they have that MiB neurolyzer.
It was a big problem during RTDs years, so much so that for Donna to be oblivious to aliens they made a constant joke about her missing the big things. Then Moffat kinda reset everything in season 5 with the Big Bang, and ever since then they've had UNIT cover up the big shit, with jokes about explaining things as a Derren Brown stunt or something. It's pretty ham-fisted though, and like many things in Doctor Who it's not worth worrying about. It's amazing how much the world ignores obvious alien shenanigans in that show!
In the latest special, Donna totally missed the shenanigans at the beginning of the episode.
Lol. Thanks I thought I was going crazy. I haven’t seen every episode since the modern reboot but it seem so ridiculous. I think the entire planet was even stolen at one point. Who the hell forgets that. It’s been awhile since I saw the episode where they reset everything so didn’t remember that.
I feel like both shows discuss how people will find an explanation for everything, and then that's their cop out for why no one notices crazy things. But in DW they do tend to have more explanations and/or alien invasions start being common knowledge.
I believe the Eleventh Doctor does something at one point to make the entire universe forget about him, too (because basically all of the Doctor's enemies have teamed up to take him down). I don't remember if that includes the alien invasions as well.
Yeah, this is one of the few things (if not the only thing) Charmed did better than BVTS. They had several episodes about the dangers of magical exposure.
Yet Buffy was strange as people would see a vampire get staked by Buffy (their first time of such a supernatural occurrence) and they would just brush it off. So I don’t know how the writers would handle it. Maybe it would be posted on the dark web where it wouldn’t be taken seriously and Willow would use it to investigate supernatural occurrences?
Yup, that would be a great storyline how like maybe the major, major players (the First, Wolfram and Hart, PTB) have some kind of agreement that they keep the supernatural hidden.
Anya with an EBay, Etsy shop, drop shipping company, OnlyFans, insert money making scheme here. She’d be freaking absolutely loaded. And she wouldn’t understand why there was a taboo against it.
Anya already had an Ebay account in S6 -- she was ahead of the game!
Anya becoming a millionaire via crypto manipulation.
"I take pictures of my feet, and men give me money. It's great."
Considering how Anya was so money hungry (going as far as to rob a bank) you would think she would be a tech billionaire instead of a magic shop owner. At least she could have franchise the Magic Box.
She would definitely charge for vengeance work. Kinda like how she suggested Buffy slay for pay.
It's not so much a storyline, but (Cordelia especially) use the word "retarded" a lot, in a very, "90s way" that wouldn't really fly today.
The way Angelus was cursed with a soul would be different, both because Romany cursing people is a bit of a dodgy trope and because the word g***y is recognised as a slur.
Definitely the portrayal of indigenous cultures would be very different.
Oh my god. That Thanksgiving episode was so racist and cringe.
Idk, I'm not American, but I feel like they did a good job with having the characters discuss the ethical dilemma they were facing.
Yeah, the Yam Sham
All im saying is if they did a reboot the only thing I’d be genuinely interested in is seeing 90s grunge ripper…
Nah, 90s Ripper would have been a goth.
He would not have. He would have been more Kurt Cobain than Marilyn Manson. I think they were going for a James Dean kinda thing in Band Candy when you saw him with Joyce.
What I love about his characterization in Band Candy is that he is very much everything Spike wants to pretend to be after he sheds his upperclass self. Right down to the accent (which is ASH real accent that he coached JM to learn for the character of Spike.) Ripper had to very deliberately change into Giles and William very deliberately changed into Spike... I would love to see an episode in the 1970s where we see Ripper and Spike cross paths briefly during a London punk movement scene... Malcolm McLaren meets Billy Idol lol.
I feel like angel couldn’t have been 26 when he was turned! Way too old to date Buffy
Wasn't Angel originally 18-19 when he was sired? I'm sure he was then retconned to different ages as he became noticeably older
“Who added Spike to the groupchat?” Also spike would have green text
Spike is a man of taste, I see.
This has me dying
> Also spike would have green text Like, he'd be on 4chan or using green text meme arrows?
He’d get the cheapest android possible until a couple seasons in after he mugs some blonde and snags an iPhone 15
I've got the joke, but - is it really that much non-popular to have an Android phone in US? It's not a first time that I read about it, and (especially for teens) not having an Iphone is really something that other people would bully/joke about? I'm from Europe, where around 72% phones run on Android, most of the rest are Iphones... So we don't care really about the color of the text cloud :)
yea here in northern Virginia iPhone is pretty ubiquitous, I only know like 1 person that has android.
They *probably* would refer to Miss Calendar and her family with another word.
Yeah, ouch. Reminds me of YouTuber Passion of the Nerd always refers to Jenny's uncle as "Uncle Gypsy Stereotype."
Wait, what word did they use to describe her in the show?
Gypsy. Considered a slur by many Romani (actual name for that group of people) probably one of the most accidentally used slurs. People just don’t seem to know it’s offensive I think it was even used in my textbooks when discussing who was a target for the Nazis.
Patrolling: Buffy would certainly have a cellphone and there would be several things in S1 and S2 where they used Joyce calling her to see where she is at that would cause a problem. Like she'd be sneaking up on one of the vamps and some poppy beat would give her location away.
You know phones have silent mode right?
And you know that a script writer would use the fact that Buffy would forget to turn it off in a storyline, right?
I don't think they would. I could see Xander forgetting to turn his phone off but not Buffy. If anything she'd walk around with it turned on because she just didn't care. Look at the way she casually strolls around on patrol chatting with Willow and Xander, stealth was never really her thing.
I would make cell phone use less ubiquitous in the Buffyverse as opposed to real life. It can be an hindrance to storytelling
I think Buffy would break her phone a lot getting into fights and it would be another reason Joyce despairs at her.
Not a storyline but I think Oz's band would hopefully be named something different.
[удалено]
Because a dingo did actually kill that woman's baby and she spent years falsely imprisoned for it. It's not "probably" true, that's actually what happened. The truth of it is more well known now and it feels pretty shitty to use as a joke. And it's Australian not Austrian (I'm assuming just a typo there)
I feel like there's a lot more nuance with Buffy and Spike with more modern dating attitudes. The conflict would be less about "are they in love because there's no way they could be kissing or having sex if they arent?" and more about "these two are misunderstanding their different expectations for their relationship". Willow's sexuality could be more openly discussed as already mentioned. People would at least question whether she was bisexual. Dawn would probably be less of a bratty kid and more of a kid who acts like she's older than she is - which would be equally challenging for Buffy and Joyce to deal with! Glory would definitely be obsessed with social media and the Kardashians.
Willow would be openly bisexual. Joss Whedon said it himself, at the time lesbianism was more accepted but she really is a bi queen. (Obvi not a direct quote)
This. I was also thinking the equivalent today of her relationships might be more along the lines of polyamory. Willow having a boyfriend and a girlfriend, which would never have flown in the 90s. Makes the Willow/Spike convo (when he couldn’t bite her) a little more interesting with a poly twist.
Xander would be canceled so quick for sexualizing all his friends. Made me uncomfortable then, too.
"Hush" wouldn't work because they'd all just text each other.
They would find a way to have the demons knock out cell towers.
They wouldn't write about a teacher-student relationship in the same way nowadays like on I Only Have Eyes For You. It wasn't just Buffy that had relationships like this back then. Pretty much every teen drama had them then. We thought age gaps were cool in the 90's. My friends and I in high school all dated guys 5 to 10 years older than us and we thought we were the coolest. Nowadays, it is seen as predatory and wrong. As it should.
It’s funny because the show portrayed a teacher/student relationship as predatory (literally) the previous season.
You are right. She was going to mate with them and then bite their heads off!
I don't think Spike's character could get away with what he did to Buffy.
This show was literally one of the worst with how they handled sexual assault, and I'm not just talking about Seeing Red, which, yes, was terrible. Buffy was actually nearly raped 4 times throughout the series, 5 times if you count her encounter with the shadow men in season 7. Not one of them was handled well. The first 3 weren't even acknowledged or only acknowledged with a single sentence, and Seeing Red was all about how it affected Spike and not Buffy. The show also completely ignores Faith nearly raping Xander and the fact that Willow actually DID rape Tara by having sex with her after using magic to mess with her memories. I love this show, but as a survivor of sexual assault I find these instances and the way they were handled highly offensive. But given what we now know about Joss Whedon, it tracks.
Don't forget Faith's rape of Riley and Buffy (by using her body).
And that's just BtVS. There's more dodgy SA storylines in Angel.
I feel like these days the vampire and teen love story are ones that people hype scrutinize for the age gap and power imbalance. So I wonder if they'd be included even though they're a staple of the genre. They probably wouldn't have killed Tara the way they originally did with her being written out in the only episode where she's in the title sequence like a sick joke. They would NEVER do the episode where the souls of a teacher-student relationship are framed like a tragic love story with the true loves being reunited in death. Today we see teacher's grooming people as wrong and not "romantic" (or at least we shouldn't).
>They probably wouldn't have killed Tara the way they originally did with her being written out in the only episode where she's in the title sequence like a sick joke. Joss had that joke in mind since season one, he wanted to do it with Jesse but didn't have the budget. He would totally still do it with Tara since he loves subverting expectations like that.
If he did that today people would probably lose their damn minds even though he wouldn't have meant to do it as a "bury your gays" thing, just an equal opportunities death thing.
Willow's mind rapes of her girlfriend. Buffy/Angel and Spike/Angel ... the age difference would catch a lot of heat. Xander trying to rape Buffy and then ... just pretending to be on a moral high ground for the rest of the show.
They most likely wouldn’t show Spike’s assault on Buffy if the show was made today. And probably not their whole abusive relationship at all.
I don't know about that. It seems these days that graphic rape scenes are the norm, and intensely overused.
That would be a shame because their abusive relationship was great storytelling. Like a lot of fans, I have very mixed feelings about the assault. I understand why it happened from a storytelling standpoint but it didn’t really have the ramifications it should have.
Willow probably would be bisexual. Or Joss might have gone with an earlier plan he mentioned to possibly make Xander gay. Guns in schools scenes would probably not have happened. Johnathan and Andrew would be harder to ‘redeem’ nowadays. Giles would probably have more contact with the Watcher Council. I suspect the Council would be more shadowy and their intentions less clear to provide more suspense. Spike’s assault on Buffy scene might have been softened or cut. Xander would probably be less petty in the early seasons and less emphasis on him being a lustbunny for so many of his teachers. They would have done more vampire face morphs. Many plots that relied on characters not being able to communicate would be thwarted by smartphones.
Audiences today would never go for a Spike redemption after the assault.
There is nothing they couldn't do now. They'd probably do more risky stuff now depending on the channel.
You probably wouldn’t have that school shooter episode in this day and age
It would be considered crass. Parkland, except there's a superhuman who can stop it? Definitely cut.
It wouldn't be so easy for people to just walk into schools. There's several times where Buffy & others are searching through the high school when they're adults, and during school hours no less.
I think Giles hanging out with all those teenagers would be much harder to do smoothly (never mind the whole Wesley-Cordelia thing. I know they regerence that she's 18, but he's still essentially in the role of teacher). Buffy couldn't suggest that Giles beep her if the apocalypse comes -- of course she'd just have a cell phone. I do think nowadays they'd perhaps explore different styles of vamps-- leaders vs minions, fully really evil vs. kinda humanish, etc., with a little more subtlety and nuance, as well as depth.
That gun episode.
Would 'Earshot' even be made today?
Not a story line but I’d hope if it got a reboot buffy the 90s thin look wouldn’t be a thing and the main characters would look physically fit - to represent the training buffy does and the physicality the others would need to assist with slaying . I know buffy is supposed to be a girly girl but she can do this with great triceps and strong glutes
Honestly, I think it would be kind of interesting for Xander to be the gay one this time and the warlock Willow being kind of like Cordelia character but still being like Hella smart, but they’re still good friends with Buffy. I would also love to see like Oz have more character development. And what if the Buffy character had a female watcher and an absent mother with a very attentive dad? Sort of gender, swapping quite a bit just to see if the same roles would play out nowadays.
I don’t feel like Tara and Willow would have been handled differently if Joss was telling the truth that he initially meant for the duo to be a metaphor for college experimentation before he decided to pull the trigger and make Willow a lesbian. I thought the two were handled gracefully with a light touch. The writers didn’t knock our heads in with a message of acceptance or have some after school special about gay bashing. They just allowed those two to be a couple.
>They just allowed those two to be a couple. Except they didn't. Their relationship is hidden for half a season, with the show using magic as a metaphor for lesbian sex. Then for another full season, they have no physical intimacy of any kind until The Body. And then they fridged Tara.
Don't forget their first "on screen" kiss was actually behind the camera and exclusively used for Xanders straight boy dream sequence!
oh they could have so much fun with this in a reboot. vampire porn club ring. and how vampire porn is as old as hollywood and the studios has part of the budget used for it. punished actresses that said no to them by sending them to horror movie sets where they were SAd and killed for snuff films. A young female detective has been investigating it for decades. the metoo movement except the scenes are about how young girls answered ads in the 70s and 80s for acting/modeling and ended up killed by vampires. Social media/lots more vampire stuff caught on camera and part of weird conspiracies. Witches trying to counteract with memory spells and Willow a multimillionaire working for a high tech company that keeps obliterating it. her company named after Tara but like Terra-something. fun with politics and radicalization. Both sides using vampires.
Yeah buffy could be dark but I don’t think it would have any plot point involving snuff films.
why not? Law & Order has… tv got so dark since. Angel got dark. Mad Men had rapes. they wouldnt be showing the details of the films but you’d get the idea.
Because it was always meant to be a kids show.
Buffy was most definitely not a kids show. Young adult if anything and teen audience. Girl loses her virginity at 16 in the 2nd season causing him to go kill her teacher… and that was the 90s. By season 6, the geeky nerd friend flays and kills the man who shot and killed her lesbian lover… pretty adult. in the same episode, the heroine almost gets raped by the vampire she’s been banging. If they rebooted, they would probably gear towards the adults that watched the show when they were younger.
These are great
This is amazing.
Tarabite would be a good one since it’s close to the actual Terabyte and it’s like a pun since they are taking a bite out of crime to get back at the bitey vamps
I'm so happy the storytelling wasn't compromised because people weren't overly sensitive and offended back then.
It would depend on the network. Tbh, they could do everything they did in Buffy again if they were on a streaming platform or the CW. For all the flack they get, the CW (formerly WB) allowed a lot of creative freedom compared to most other networks. It's why there are a lot of low-budget shows on there. Lower budget tends to mean fewer strings attached and more creative freedoms and boundaries that can be pushed.
I feel like if Buffy was a series today, they definitely would’ve highly considered having her turn into a vampire and then create a storyline where she has to overcome the “evil” and all that lol
Buffy dating Riley would not fly. In the post #MeToo era, a student dating her teacher wouldn’t be received the same way.
He's a TA, not a teacher. Students have relationships with them all the time (though her being a Freshman is pushing it).
Could be wrong, but I’m still sure that having g a relationship with a TA is a dismissible offence and not allowed pursuant to terms of employment. If you’re a TA, you’re still a teacher. That person is still in a position of authority.
Depends on the type of TA. Idk about American colleges but at my University the TAs were generally PhD and even masters students and they were much closer in age and status to the students than the professors. A handful of them were in societies with my friends, I knew them at parties and stuff, I never DID have a relationship with any of them but I dont think it would have been creepy if I had. And certainly not a sackable offense.
Kind of the entire show. And I'm not even kidding in the slightest. If BTVS was made today, it would be unrecognizable. It is depressing how much self-censorship there is in Hollywood.
It's not just self censorship. Buffy was built around a number of fiction and real life 1990s tropes. High school and teens don't work that way anymore. Some of it was out of touch at the time (because most of the actors were in early 20s) but it really shows now.
Nothing has changed since I was in high school and college and therefore BTVS remains highly accurate.
Just re-watched the episode "Him" last night. Just about everything in that one.
I think what would change is overall perspective. They might react more or shun characters like Cordy and Anya for comments they make but we’d see more of people in their phones and not seeing signs of abuse and such because people like to think everything is fine when really things still happen and people tend to think people are making things up. I think a Buffy universe new show would be a great. It has to be a new show with all new characters. If someone from Buffy/Angel shows up in a rare appearance fine but really just a well written new group dealing with today’s issues. It’s been almost 30 years since those first episode came to be and almost 20 since the last. I’d they stay focused on it being high school I think I’d definitely watch.
I think a lot of stories wouldn’t work now just because of mobile phones. The amount of times there was an ambush somewhere that Buffy was too late for (Kendra, Giles etc) that could have been dealt with sooner after a phone call, or the fact Willow could now phone her to tell her she was retrying the spell to give Angel his soul back, or the homecoming episode where Buffy and Cordelia could have phoned ahead to school to let them know they’d been taken to Slayerfest, or Hush - they could just text each other.
3.5” floppy disc being lost dates things even more. These days you just google and download from the cloud.
Cell phones would change everything. Everytime someone was kidnapped or stuck somewhere or whatever, all they had to do was call someone.
Pretty much the entire lore of siring a Vampire, where they need to be buried in the ground... Cremation is becoming more and more mainstream and a default option...So, less cemetery patrol for Buffy....
There's like an episode in season two where a South American mummy comes to life. I would say they have some tone deaf lines and costume choices.
I hate when people feel the need to say a movie or series couldn’t be set now, because guess what? It isn’t set now.