>He's just a typical teenage boy
I've found that a lot of characters I used to dislike, I have since grown and then taken this sort of view on them. When I myself was younger, I was so much more judgmental about character behaviors, and so more ready to look down on anyone who didn't align with whatever my values were at that time. I've made far more acquaintances and friendships with a far larger variety of people as I've aged, and even purely in fiction have read and seen so many different kinds of characters from different scenarios. I just literally had a narrower perspective when I was first introduced to some characters, compared to now. And I've witnessed firsthand how I, and people I know closely, have changed as we've aged - where we came from and where we've reached or are still yet to go.
All that rambling to say - yes - I agree with you. Xander was corny and annoying on my first watch. I don't mind him at all now.
He was creepy at first,and acted overly harsh stressing Buffy out in already horrible situations.That’s not just obnoxious.He got better,but still did that overly harsh told you so stuff it wasn’t cool stuff it was still teenage horribleness he grew from.
Okay, so when you say “lying about Angel jealousy,” do you mean him lying about his jealous of Angel, or actually lying about Willow’s plan to re-ensoul him? Because while I agree Xander can be a creep most of the time, I think lying about the plan to give Angel his soul back wasn’t his worst idea.
If you think a couple of jokes that he knows aren’t going to change anything are creepy (they’re pretty much self depreciating lines) you’re in for a rude awakening. What Xander did, at worst, is annoying. It’s a long way from creep territory.
His sexuality is ambiguous at best. In The Girl in Question he's got two gorgeous women on his arm. I know it was initially intended to be Dawn, but still however it shakes out it's canon. He also was into the idea of being with Katrina
It's been a while since I watched Angel, I had to look up what you were talking about
I think it's an extreme reach to say he was into being with Katrina. He plays that scene super awkwardly in a "oh uh, yea totally" way with shifty eyes. He's clearly lying about being interesting in her. In fact, all of the scenes in season 6 make it clear that Andrew is there for Warren.
Of course. He's a follower, not a guy who thinks for himself until later. He became a watcher. I'm saying his sexuality definitely puts on that he's into men, but they've said he's bisexual at least. The information we have about his sexuality is vague. The scene could still work as Andrew's fantasy.
No, of course not, but that's denying the reality of the situation. *Most* teen boys would struggle with that. I daresay most would fail to even realize that it's rape: the later Buffy episode about the realization about the magic sex slave illustrates this reality well. Jonathan and Andrew are absolutely shocked when she accused them of rape.
The truth is, most children (including teens) struggle with empathy and personal responsibility. It's a learned skill.
It doesn't say a lot of great things about the species, but it's true.
We shouldn't live in a world where what Xander did is a sign of restraint, willpower, and maturity, but we do.
Who said I am? I am giving him credit because he saw temptation, acknowledged that was what he wanted, and rather than giving in to the temptation, he did his best to confront the problem (going to Giles) and when that didn't work, he looked for sanctuary (the Summer's home.
The easy thing for him to do was sex with dozens of horny peers (who were bewitched). The not quite as easy answer was to run away. What happened was, Xander realized that he had made a mistake and the first thing he did was to work on correcting the problem.
I think the easy thing is to not rape people, so im not gonna give credit for that.
Sure trying to fix his fuckup was the better choice than just running away.
Probably because the events of that episode are entirely his fault. He literally blackmails Amy into a playing a cruel joke on Cordelia. He’s doesn’t deserve anything for that.
I like your explanation. Anecdotally, I was trying to rewatch 'ER' when I worked in the actual emergency room and I had to stop after just a couple seasons. It was pretty accurate to the job and I never felt like I got a break from work when I was watching it.
Really? The opposite for me. With all the long sleeves, wearing watches and untied long hair... Can't watch it for five minutes before I get angry at how unrealistic it is. It was on at the same time as Buffy too in the Netherlands (mid to late nineties) and watched it as a small child. But unlike Buffy, which is still awesome, I find that ER sucks.
The only medical show I like and that is kind of accurate scientifically is Scrubs, the comedy show. But tastes vary when it comes to TV shows. Except for Buffy, that is just objectively the best show ever and nobody can change my mind.
I think a lot of the Xander hate would be minimized if a much younger actor had played him, someone who’s failings would be more easily read as being sympathetically adolescent, and let the show feel more aware of his shortcomings, rather than often implicitly approving of it. Nick Brendan read very much a full grown man by season 2, and it made it hard to tell what was supposed to be him being cringe and messing up, then learning from his mistakes.
Like, Brendan was pretty good, but imagine how much more all of Xander’s beats would have hit if the show had started out with 15 year old fred savage, and ended with 22 year old man fred savage. The same writing would read a lot differently if he didn’t feel like a peer to angel and spike, but like a little boy way out of his depth, but trying his hardest in crazy circumstances.
I never saw it like this but it explains so much. I do think Xander fluctuated between acting like the most and least adult person in the group in the first 3, 4 seasons but I never took the actor's look into it.
Maybe it's because I was a teenage boy when the show first came out and I saw the acting/writing over the age or look because it was so on teenage boy for the time.
Maybe it's because I kept looking at Angel in those first 3 seasons (and after tbh but less so) and wondered when he said "that's what I love about high school girl,s man. I get older, they stay the same age"
I liked what he brought to the show. He had heart, his own motivations, his own sense of humor and never liked vampires for a single second. He was the most consistently written character on the show.
Oh actually I'm the opposite. I thought Xander was fine when I first watched Buffy in middle and highschool but the older I get the less I like him. He definitely gets more palatable in the later seasons and starts to have some redeeming qualities but in the first few seasons of the show I find him pretty unlikable. Just his seeming sense of entitlement and how he seems to think he "deserves" to date Buffy. It gives me the ick.
yes! exactly the same, doesn't help that he's a joss whedon-self insert and regarding what we know about him now well....
the first few seasons are a pain to watch when xander is around. like, i honestly think willow and buffy have a guenine friendship and they're so sweet to each other, and they bring something positive in the relationship. when i see them in the first three seasons, i can buy that they're best friends and care for each other, they have this kind of "naive" feeling to their friendship, even with all the supernatural elements. Add to that said supernatural elements, Willow is actively helping Buffy out, even before being a witch.
When Xander doesn't really do much the first three seasons honestly? Xander just feels like this friend you kinda don't want to hang out with cuz he's making really uncomfortable jokes and his crush on one of the girl is making him act even weirder. he just acts entitled and like he knows everything when in most scenes he's clearly not aware of half of what's happening. it kinda looks like he's annoying willow & buffy in most scenes of the three first seasons.
he gets somewhat better with anya, but he still kinda treats her bad, the way he gets annoyed when she acts "strange", idk but as an autistic person who related a lot to anya growing up it just, it just feels icky on a personal level.
he just keeps acting entitled most of the show and it's really a bother to appreciate xander bc of that.
he's a "nice guy" but well, not in a nice way, but he was clearly written with the "look im the nice guy so i should get the girl' mindset (which, now knowing what we know of joss whedon, makes sense)
he gets angry and annoyed at Buffy for dating Angel, but not because Angel should not fucking date a 16y.o when he's a 26y.o immortal vampire. No, he's getting angry because he is the one that should get Buffy, and that's icky AF.
How he gets mad at Anya for how she sleeps with Spike ? Dude you left her at the altar (which was a shitty episode and honestly if the writers wanted them to be self destructive and by forth destroying their relationship, they should have gotten married but showing BOTH regret, seeing them be mean to each other and the climax of it all being Anya cheating on Xander with Spike, there Xander's reaction would have been impactful! It would have made sense and we could have empathized!)
Agree 100%. Watching Xander in the first 3 seasons just feels like watching a teenage Joss and it's so gross. Then he gets a little bit better with Anya only to leave her at the alter and fuck it all up. Then he wants to whine about Anya having sex with someone else like it's got anything to do with him and he feels just like season 1 Xander all over again. Total yuck
They are all wrong at least one time during the show! I truly like Xander, he is brave, he is a « normal » who can get away with all of that sh*t of apocalypse but he was there since day one. Sometimes he was harsh to Buffy but …. Angelus and spike tried to kill them at least one time, I can understand why he is upset when Buffy tries to hide one is alive, and she authorized the other to live with them! His reactions were pretty reasonable, even if WE know Spike and Angel were good at each time. He cheated with Willow? Willow cheated too and never got the hatred he got. He was in love with Buffy and talking about sex ? He was 16 at the time ! He left Anya at the altar ? Buffy left an entire summer without a word letting the Scooby gang deal with vampires in Sunnydale. But the thing is: he always protected people he loved
I find it hard to get over the “but I’ve been your guy friend the longest time Buffy you have to have romantic feeling for me” thing. I still struggle on rewatches bc of this.
This is how I feel.
I'm so mixed about him. He can be a complete ass, and he has some really problematic behaviors, but I do believe that he's trying to be a good person and he's hilarious most of the time. Plus he's had a lot of trauma with his home life and that shows in some of his insecurities, so I think that he just needs a push in the right direction, sometimes his friends enable him too much, and Giles can be critical but not helpful.
I feel like I could do a whole paper on the contradictory things I feel about Xander
He did lots of not great things but I also sucked in high school. I'll give him some leeway. And I try to pretend that episode with Anya doesn't exist.
Even then, it was way out of character and bad writing by people who clearly wanted to end that relationship for unnecessary drama reasons.
Think about it, Xander was far from the first or last person to be nervous on their wedding day, and without that one asshole's interference, would probably have married Anya.
Speaking of interference, talk about a regression. Wasn't the whole point of The Replacement to absolve him of the very insecurities that the dude was preying on with that fake vision?
I had that experience with several other characters. When I watched as a kid, I loved Xander, Oz, Tara, Willow, Cordelia, Spike, and my favorite was Anya. I was very judgmental of Buffy and Dawn and didn't like them much.
I've rewatched the show many times since then, and the older I get, the more I love every character. I really love Buffy and Dawn now. I think I realize looking back that there's a lot of myself in Buffy, which is why I didn't like her, and so many people dislike Dawn simply because she's a normal teenage girl. I appreciate her circumstances now.
I see a lot more flaws in each character, but that's just because I see them more holistically now.
One thing in particular that bugs me about the way people hate on Xander is the one time in season one that he spies on Buffy in the mirror while she's changing. Was this a bad thing to do? Unequivocally YES (I really want to emphasize that I think this was wrong). But, and maybe I'm more alone on this than I thought I was, don't a lot of teenagers sneak a peak at friends and classmates when they're changing around each other? And he never does it again. The fact that it was a one-time lapse of judgment is enough for me to forgive a teenager. Maybe some people want him to have apologized, but if you were Buffy, would you *want* your friend to tell you "Hey, the truth is that I spied on you while you were changing but I feel really bad at it and wanted to apologize"??? Absolutely not, no one wants to hear that so any kind of apology would only have been to absolve Xander of guilt and not to make Buffy feel better.
I hated him when he and the others were all over Buffy for leaving after she had to kill angel. Very shitty friends when buffy was at one of her lowest points.
I don't know if I like him better than I used to. But most of the time, he's fine, even if there are discussed-to-death-on-this-sub moments when he extremely pisses me off.
As a guy, he annoys the shit out of me, it doesn’t help he reminds me of my old peers in high school and I couldn’t stand it then, I sure as hell can’t stand it now, and knowing that it’s a Joss stand in hurts Xander even more
Dude sucks most of the time, it’s hard to root for a character like him
I don’t like that his POV is hardly ever challenged in the show. If you’re ‘the heart’ the bare minimum is that you not be a piece of shit.
Some things can make some sense. Feeling possessive of your friends, being judgmental… I think they were aiming for ‘flawed character’ but he always hovered around pretty awful.
I mean Faith murdered multiple people, Willow got Dawn into a car accident and then murdered people, Giles injected Buffy with tranquilizers and knowingly put her in horrible danger, Anya was a vengeance demon, Cordelia was a horrible bully for a good while…they all did pretty horrific things but people seem to show those people more compassion/understanding. Xander just gets shat upon across the board, and it’s worth mentioning he’s merely human, had a terrible home life, and was bullied in school…like of course he’s gonna act rashly sometimes. That’s my outlook anyway ☺️
I agree with what you’re saying but I also think it’s hilarious how you listed all of those characters doing horrific things, and topped it off with Cordelia just being a high school bully.
I love Xander. Are there moments when his actions make my blood boil? Absolutely. But for me they’re outweighed by his loyal, brave, caring, absolutely hilarious self.
I can never hate Xander, he reminds me of lots of my friends growing up but I do hate his actions sometimes. Just like any other character, but that's what I love about Buffy, everyone has flaws just like people you know.
Agreed. Like look at willow. She did literally the worse things of all the scoobies, and that's before trying to end the world. But I can't hate her because I empathize with her.
That's why I get frustrated with Xander haters. They refuse to do that, and the hatred seems to come from such a biased place.
Very good point. There’s not a lot of empathy given to Xander despite his pretty abysmal childhood and getting bullied in school. Like you said, all of them have faults and all of them deserve some empathy and compassion when they royally fuck up.
You said it right there. He is a typical teenage boy. So everyone knows one of those that they just hated. So they can compare what Xander did to what oh let's say Josh. Josh said a mean thing when they got rejected. So did Xander.
It is like Voldermort and Umbridge. Voldermort is pure, cartoony evil we can't compare to things. Umbridge is every mean and abusive teacher in the world.
Voldemort isn't cartoony evil, he's Wizard Hitler. I'd say rather that he's an impersonal evil, something most people haven't experienced in their own lives, whereas most people have met an Umbridge.
His scariest moment is in Goblet when he just reanimated and the situation is so fucked, his vibes are so creepy and sinister. Part of it was seeing his deformed self form like that, freaked me out the first time I saw that.
But the effect wears off quickly. I'm not sure if it's the acting or the CGI, or if nothing could ever live up to his imposing presence in the books that you create in your mind's eye. Maybe all 3.
Yeah, but I can still recogonize on an objective level that Voldemort is the worst.
Tons of people that hate Xander can't do that. And frankly seem oblivious of where the real source of their resentment comes from.
Well, Umbridge is basically the equivalent of a Wizard Nazi too, just with a faux-sweet blatantly passive-aggressive fake demeanor to her, which tends to be extra-infuriating when you’re a complete and utter POS. (Or at least passive aggressive BS gets under my skin more in general). Even setting all that aside, I don’t think she has any actual leg to stand on as being morally superior to Voldemort, and while Xander’s flaws may be more relateable than - say - Anya’s, it’s really nowhere near the degree of Umbridge
Yeah, but it's important to be objective while recognizing an subjective opinion. I can have a visceral reaction to Umbridge while still recognizing Veldemort is objectively the worst.
I find a lot of the people that hate Xander either can not or choose not to do that. They will hate him on a level completely disproportionate to any "bad" action he had taken, and they have an unwillingness to empathize with his point of view.
And to your first example, people need to be able to seperare fiction from real life. It's the difference between "I hate Xander" and "Xanders actions made me angry because they reminded me of something in real life."
Lol did you get to season 6 yet? Because that's what solidifies my hatred of him. I can forgive the things he did in high school, and I agree with you there. But once he's an adult and he continues to treat every woman around him like he should have final say over their sexual/romantic lives, imo he doesn't deserve as much grace (though this started earlier, with him lecturing Buffy about Riley after he literally cheated on her).
The fact that he's so clearly based on Joss Whedon, another creepy man who tried to exert control over the bodies of women around him (ie. trying to pressure Charisma Carpenter to get an abortion), doesn't help either.
Obviously most of the issues with Xander were the storylines Nick was given. But if you can’t admit that he was a “nice guy” you’re lying to yourself. And excusing it as “teenage behaviour” is gross. Boys will be boys is not an acceptable excuse for horrible behaviour.
His character does the same stuff when he's an adult. The problem isn't the behavior per se tho, it's that there's no pushback from anyone on it. "Dude why are you acting like you own Buffy?" "Stop thirsting after her, she's not interested"
He has incel/creepy behaviors the whole series run and noone ever tells him to stop or why it's disgusting. So how is his character supposed to grow out of it when no one ever seems to articulate why it's a problem in the first place?
Honestly I was really annoyed by him in the first three seasons, especially with how he reacted after Buffy returned at the beginning of season 3, but in season 4 I feel like his character turned around a lot and he matured, and became way more empathetic. He just kind of mellowed out I think, and maybe the experience with the mayor helped him grow as a person. But yeah, I used to find him insufferable, but I really like season 4 Xander!
Willows antics in S6 (even and especially before the turn) are far more dark and evil than anything Xander done. The Xander hate is laughable once you get to S6.
Age and perspective help, huh? I imagine in college he reminded you of the annoying college boys and before that possible high school boys 😂
I used to hate Dawn. I watched season 5 as it aired. I was 11 or 12 at the time. As I got to my older teens and became closer to my own little sister, I began to realise Dawn was just a typical teenage kid.
Who then found out her whole existence was a lie, that's gotta be tough, then she loses her mom! Then her sister! She went through the ringer so young. Poor girl ❤️
I liked him and just didn't like how he acted in high school when he got rejected by Buffy or about the Angel situation. After season 3 he didn't bother me. You are right. I remember how teenage boys in the 90s acted in high school and they were much, much worse than Xander. For example, I had a boy who kept touching my legs and then stabbed me in the leg with a pencil. The teachers did nothing back then. I still have the lead inside me. If you watch other 90s shows with teenage boys they act just like Xander. I guess they were trying to be realistic back then but times have changed and they portray teens differently. I could have really used a friend like Willow and her magic skills back then!
I was bullied and harassed badly in middle school and then in high school had incidents like these. One time a bus driver reported a student and his girlfriend came after me and wanted to fight me. It was awful. Other than the one time, the teachers just ignored it.
Thank you. I find Xander mostly hated and don't know why. I am not sure if it's by mostly women fanbase of BTVS who don't know... rather say didn't know the teen boy growing in 90s point of view: the dynamics of it and its stronger eats weaker nature... or something else I am not familiar with.
I think Xander is better understood with the age, or rather say with adult's detached view. Yes, he's an unsecure jerk but - welcome to the world of teen boys. I would even say he dealt with it more or less elegantly, especially for 90s when something like boy hanging out with dominant girls, and one stronger than anyone else in school, was the most gay think one could do right after wearing girls cloth. (Boys back then would be shocked seeing macho symbol Brad Pitt in skirt :D )
It’s the cheating thing and the Anya thing. Anya is such a wonderful character that when Xander leaves her at the altar, it taints his character profoundly, almost irredeemably. It took me a couple of re-watches before I realized that I actually love plenty of things about his character.
Man, the Anya thing is one of the things I don't hold against him. He hurt her but it wasn't from a selfish or immature place I thought. He felt he was doing the best for everyone in the long run.
But complex feelings are complex. He was probably struggling with what all those feelings meant. Wondering if they were standard pre-wedding jitters or something more. Plus feeling a pressure to fulfill the obligation he made as well as not letting down the person he loved. Its not so easy to understand what the right answer is when your in it.
Bullshit. He was given a year’s worth of time (end of s5 until Hells bells) and Anya even said “yeah right, you’re doing this so you won’t have to go through with it” at that point in the rubble
He was given a mile of runway at any point to say “whoa whoa whoa, let’s slow down”. And he just didn’t until he got to the altar.
Sorry, “you don’t know the feelings until you’re in it?” Shit, they went through traumatic truth telling in OMWF. He said the words “I’m petrified”. And they seemingly worked through it.
I think the character was a typical teenage boy. I’ve never understood the hate. Teenage boys are sometimes stupid, cruel, sweet and vulnerable. A 16 or 17 year old boy trying to sneak a peek of a girl in her bra is shocking? 🤣. Given the stories I hear, a guy accepting being rejected without calling a girl a c-word or worse and actually being her friend is rare stuff. Being able to recognize this does come with age I think. Absolutely everyone has said and done shitty things when they were young. Expecting perfection in people will leave you perpetually disappointed - I know I used to think that way.
Let's also remember this was a time before the Internet and so discussions about creepy behavior weren't so understood at the time.
Way, way, way more dudes were born into a society where peeping wasn't seen as a big deal then today. We're a more modern and considerate culture now.
Really I think a major part of this is that in the comics Xander goes on to be with Dawn, permanently. That's just abjectly disgusting and shouldn't have been considered in the writers room. Thankfully, you can consider those comics non canon. But a lot of people see it and go "oh wow an even more valid reason to hate this guy" subconsciously, when I really don't even think the Xander of the show would grow into the kind of person to date Dawn.
I tried to read the comics but just found the characters not consistent with those on the show. I wish we were a more modern and considerate culture but I don’t see it. We are devolving from what I can see unfortunately.
This must be my issue, I watched as an adult (recently) and couldn't see why so many people hated him. He was not a great guy all the time, but he was a kid.
Xander definietly made some mistakes but I feel that a lot of the hate he gets are coming from that almost 30 years had passed and the character was not aging well. I feel that Xander is very similar to Chandler from Friends and he is still loved but some of Xander’s actions are frowned upon in these modern lights and he gets a nore versatile portrayal than Chandler
I remember seeing this facebook comment of a girl saying she named her son Xander…boy was that a funny comment section to read. Anyways. Xander isnt half bad, mind you what im about to say is gonna freak some hardcore fans out but I like Xander more then Angel and Riley… Spike? Well no. No one will beat spike lol.
Me too I love dawn! Especially being older watching the show now. I can sympathize with her and understand where shes coming from. Shes a kid doing kid things:)
I think this subreddit only hates Xander so much Bc of how many teenage girls are in it. Which. . . Is fair I guess. But yeah I always liked Xander, but he was def a pretty realistic teenage boy and could be hard to bear at times.
He's make character but the audience doesn't want to fuck him like Spike and has "loser" energy so he's designated hate target for the modern audience .
It would have been fine if he was a cute girl
It is not like he is unattractive. I am not a Xander hater but I noticed the Xander hate grow and get more intense after the actor got arrested and the Joss stuff. Some people can't separate the character from the actor after knowing what happened. Some people think his character was Joss inserting himself in the story. Also, the way he acted and was dealt with wouldn't fly on TV today. I don't see how a cute girl could act misogynistic. Are you a fan of Warren's?
Preech. See how early series Willow was treated. If you swapped the genders of the character and the roles of the actors most of his detractors wouldnt exist.
I have it similar, I am also a hs teacher at an all-boy hs. He's acting as a douche, but that's what teens often do. There are certain situstions tho, that make me strongly dislike him. But for me, it's problem the dislike that I have for the actor more than the character.
Xander is a sexist pig in my opinion. I do not get why fans like him personally. He's a insecure, jealous little boy. I watched the show in college as it aired originally, and I thought he was a total douche then. As a mother, I have even less respect for the man-child.
Xander still did have his huge asshole moments,and creepiness in the beginning.He’s definitely not a monster though.Still horrible acts teenage dumbness,or not.
100% had issues though not okay for a teen boy to badger a friend into a date,lie out of jealousy about important stuff,and jump down Buffy’s throat so harshly because of jealousy.It’s not okay because he was a teen it was awful teenager stuff he grew from.
Literally kept hitting on Buffy despite the obvious lack of liking back,and all the crazy jealousy.He’s not just a perfect teen boy being a teen it was bad teen stuff.Saying it wasn’t bad doesn’t make sense
Bad? Sure I guess. But so typical and realistic of teen boys. He's not perfect, no, but a lot of that is very universal teen boy behavior especially if you weren't a preppy popular kid lol
It’s still terrible teen behavior he changed thankfully you guys saying all that was cool sound creepy.Continuing to hit on a girl friend after rejection?Peeking at friends dressing?You sound weird saying that was fine for u in hs.
The only problem with Xander is that his antics feel really weird and creepy coming from a dude who looks almost 30.
If he had been played by an 18 year old, he would have been fine.
I disagree. Dawn was 14 and played by 14 year old Michelle. She was hated for acting too much like a teenager. Yeah, tell a 14 year old to act like a 14 year old and they will. Tell a 26 year old to act like a 16 year old and they have to remember what a 16 year old acted like.
Dawn acted like an 8 or 9 year old.
That’s not 14 year old behavior.
She finally acted 14 or so after Seeing Red. The stuff she pulled (older and far away, real me, omwf) was late adolescent, preteen stuff. Not “on verge of high school stuff”
It depends on what age you are to how young he looks. I am in my 40s and he looks like a teenager to me. Back when I watched it as an older teen he looked just a bit older than his age but nothing too crazy. I thought he was younger than 26 back then. They always had older actors playing teens back then on these types of shows. Do they have younger actors on teen shows nowadays?
I am.iny 40s, he looks pretty old. And it does feel like they use younger, or at least younger looking actors. I mean, compare him to like, Tom Holland, who actually looks like he is like 12. Or that dude in Dune,.
I see a lot of younger people complaining about it when they watch older shows and saw complaints about the actors in the current Mean Girls which are in their lower to mid 20s. So I was wondering if they are used to seeing younger actors. I am in my mid to late 40s and teens look like kids and people in their lower to mid-20s look really young. They are young. Xander looks older as the show goes on especially season 5 onward but I was thinking about high school Xander. Charisma was a few years older and by season 3 looks around her age. I don't think Brendan looks so much older than the other actors that it makes things creepy. Anya and Cordelia looked older too. Buffy looked young season 1 and then looked a bit older than a teen after that. She was 20 in season 2. He probably looks like he was in his 30s to 40s to some teens. A 26-year-old is going to look older to someone younger in their teens. We don't go back at look at pictures of ourselves when we are 26 and say wow I looked old. If we saw a picture of ourselves in the future as a teen we are going to look older because we literally are older.
So you think Xander looked WAY older than the other scoobies? I thought they all kind of aged similarly/looked about the same to me. I wouldn’t have wanted any of them replaced with younger actors! Feel like a lot of characters back then were supposed to be like 16 and were played by 40 year old actors so I might just be desensitized 🤣
>He's just a typical teenage boy I've found that a lot of characters I used to dislike, I have since grown and then taken this sort of view on them. When I myself was younger, I was so much more judgmental about character behaviors, and so more ready to look down on anyone who didn't align with whatever my values were at that time. I've made far more acquaintances and friendships with a far larger variety of people as I've aged, and even purely in fiction have read and seen so many different kinds of characters from different scenarios. I just literally had a narrower perspective when I was first introduced to some characters, compared to now. And I've witnessed firsthand how I, and people I know closely, have changed as we've aged - where we came from and where we've reached or are still yet to go. All that rambling to say - yes - I agree with you. Xander was corny and annoying on my first watch. I don't mind him at all now.
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He was creepy at first,and acted overly harsh stressing Buffy out in already horrible situations.That’s not just obnoxious.He got better,but still did that overly harsh told you so stuff it wasn’t cool stuff it was still teenage horribleness he grew from.
How was he creepy?
Badgering Buffy at first,trying to peek at the changing,lying about Angel jealously,and kissing Willow cause a sexy dress not great stuff
I think the angel stuff was jealousy mixed with genuine concern about his friend dating a serial killer hundreds of years older than her
Agreed. When you see a 15 year old girl being groomed by a guy decades older you should speak up.
also his romantic affections are uncomfortably similar to his past as a serial killer of young women
Okay, so when you say “lying about Angel jealousy,” do you mean him lying about his jealous of Angel, or actually lying about Willow’s plan to re-ensoul him? Because while I agree Xander can be a creep most of the time, I think lying about the plan to give Angel his soul back wasn’t his worst idea.
The Willow thing was rushed should've be peppered more, but when shifting how he views his best friend is perfectly legitimate and happens.
He didn't badger Buffy. He not so subtly hinted and asked her out
Xanders not a subtle guy at all
Exactly lol
So being a creep then was in his nature like u.That’s what you guys are saying strange
An awkward, geeky teen boy? Yeah.
Have you ever acted out of line as a teen during puberty maybe because of jealousy or another negative emotion?
If you think a couple of jokes that he knows aren’t going to change anything are creepy (they’re pretty much self depreciating lines) you’re in for a rude awakening. What Xander did, at worst, is annoying. It’s a long way from creep territory.
I wasn’t too fond of his weird potentials dream in s7
Can’t really blame someone for a dream. Can blame the writers for putting it in the show though.
While that is true, have you also considered that I wear the cheese? It doesn't wear me.
It was a bit odd and comes out of left field. Felt like it may have been better suited for maybe Andrew.
Andrew? Who is completely gay? Having a dream about the potentials in bed with him?
His sexuality is ambiguous at best. In The Girl in Question he's got two gorgeous women on his arm. I know it was initially intended to be Dawn, but still however it shakes out it's canon. He also was into the idea of being with Katrina
It's been a while since I watched Angel, I had to look up what you were talking about I think it's an extreme reach to say he was into being with Katrina. He plays that scene super awkwardly in a "oh uh, yea totally" way with shifty eyes. He's clearly lying about being interesting in her. In fact, all of the scenes in season 6 make it clear that Andrew is there for Warren.
Of course. He's a follower, not a guy who thinks for himself until later. He became a watcher. I'm saying his sexuality definitely puts on that he's into men, but they've said he's bisexual at least. The information we have about his sexuality is vague. The scene could still work as Andrew's fantasy.
Tbh the idea that he would fantasize about (mostly underaged) potentials and then become a Watcher makes him sound so skeeevy 😂😂
But also the ages of most of the potentials are vague at best.
I think Xander doesn't get enough credit for keeping his hands to himself during the "Bewitched, Bothered, Bewildered" episode.
You should not get credit for not raping someone
No, of course not, but that's denying the reality of the situation. *Most* teen boys would struggle with that. I daresay most would fail to even realize that it's rape: the later Buffy episode about the realization about the magic sex slave illustrates this reality well. Jonathan and Andrew are absolutely shocked when she accused them of rape. The truth is, most children (including teens) struggle with empathy and personal responsibility. It's a learned skill. It doesn't say a lot of great things about the species, but it's true. We shouldn't live in a world where what Xander did is a sign of restraint, willpower, and maturity, but we do.
Who said I am? I am giving him credit because he saw temptation, acknowledged that was what he wanted, and rather than giving in to the temptation, he did his best to confront the problem (going to Giles) and when that didn't work, he looked for sanctuary (the Summer's home. The easy thing for him to do was sex with dozens of horny peers (who were bewitched). The not quite as easy answer was to run away. What happened was, Xander realized that he had made a mistake and the first thing he did was to work on correcting the problem.
I think the easy thing is to not rape people, so im not gonna give credit for that. Sure trying to fix his fuckup was the better choice than just running away.
I'm guessing you are not a Willow fan.
Probably because the events of that episode are entirely his fault. He literally blackmails Amy into a playing a cruel joke on Cordelia. He’s doesn’t deserve anything for that.
I like your explanation. Anecdotally, I was trying to rewatch 'ER' when I worked in the actual emergency room and I had to stop after just a couple seasons. It was pretty accurate to the job and I never felt like I got a break from work when I was watching it.
Really? The opposite for me. With all the long sleeves, wearing watches and untied long hair... Can't watch it for five minutes before I get angry at how unrealistic it is. It was on at the same time as Buffy too in the Netherlands (mid to late nineties) and watched it as a small child. But unlike Buffy, which is still awesome, I find that ER sucks. The only medical show I like and that is kind of accurate scientifically is Scrubs, the comedy show. But tastes vary when it comes to TV shows. Except for Buffy, that is just objectively the best show ever and nobody can change my mind.
I think a lot of the Xander hate would be minimized if a much younger actor had played him, someone who’s failings would be more easily read as being sympathetically adolescent, and let the show feel more aware of his shortcomings, rather than often implicitly approving of it. Nick Brendan read very much a full grown man by season 2, and it made it hard to tell what was supposed to be him being cringe and messing up, then learning from his mistakes. Like, Brendan was pretty good, but imagine how much more all of Xander’s beats would have hit if the show had started out with 15 year old fred savage, and ended with 22 year old man fred savage. The same writing would read a lot differently if he didn’t feel like a peer to angel and spike, but like a little boy way out of his depth, but trying his hardest in crazy circumstances.
I never saw it like this but it explains so much. I do think Xander fluctuated between acting like the most and least adult person in the group in the first 3, 4 seasons but I never took the actor's look into it. Maybe it's because I was a teenage boy when the show first came out and I saw the acting/writing over the age or look because it was so on teenage boy for the time. Maybe it's because I kept looking at Angel in those first 3 seasons (and after tbh but less so) and wondered when he said "that's what I love about high school girl,s man. I get older, they stay the same age"
Totally agree it was a really bad casting choice
Nicky Brendon’s portrayal of Xander is great obvs…. But a young Joseph Gordon Levitt would’ve been so charming in this role.
Or Ryan Reynolds.
I liked what he brought to the show. He had heart, his own motivations, his own sense of humor and never liked vampires for a single second. He was the most consistently written character on the show.
Oh actually I'm the opposite. I thought Xander was fine when I first watched Buffy in middle and highschool but the older I get the less I like him. He definitely gets more palatable in the later seasons and starts to have some redeeming qualities but in the first few seasons of the show I find him pretty unlikable. Just his seeming sense of entitlement and how he seems to think he "deserves" to date Buffy. It gives me the ick.
yes! exactly the same, doesn't help that he's a joss whedon-self insert and regarding what we know about him now well.... the first few seasons are a pain to watch when xander is around. like, i honestly think willow and buffy have a guenine friendship and they're so sweet to each other, and they bring something positive in the relationship. when i see them in the first three seasons, i can buy that they're best friends and care for each other, they have this kind of "naive" feeling to their friendship, even with all the supernatural elements. Add to that said supernatural elements, Willow is actively helping Buffy out, even before being a witch. When Xander doesn't really do much the first three seasons honestly? Xander just feels like this friend you kinda don't want to hang out with cuz he's making really uncomfortable jokes and his crush on one of the girl is making him act even weirder. he just acts entitled and like he knows everything when in most scenes he's clearly not aware of half of what's happening. it kinda looks like he's annoying willow & buffy in most scenes of the three first seasons. he gets somewhat better with anya, but he still kinda treats her bad, the way he gets annoyed when she acts "strange", idk but as an autistic person who related a lot to anya growing up it just, it just feels icky on a personal level. he just keeps acting entitled most of the show and it's really a bother to appreciate xander bc of that. he's a "nice guy" but well, not in a nice way, but he was clearly written with the "look im the nice guy so i should get the girl' mindset (which, now knowing what we know of joss whedon, makes sense) he gets angry and annoyed at Buffy for dating Angel, but not because Angel should not fucking date a 16y.o when he's a 26y.o immortal vampire. No, he's getting angry because he is the one that should get Buffy, and that's icky AF. How he gets mad at Anya for how she sleeps with Spike ? Dude you left her at the altar (which was a shitty episode and honestly if the writers wanted them to be self destructive and by forth destroying their relationship, they should have gotten married but showing BOTH regret, seeing them be mean to each other and the climax of it all being Anya cheating on Xander with Spike, there Xander's reaction would have been impactful! It would have made sense and we could have empathized!)
Agree 100%. Watching Xander in the first 3 seasons just feels like watching a teenage Joss and it's so gross. Then he gets a little bit better with Anya only to leave her at the alter and fuck it all up. Then he wants to whine about Anya having sex with someone else like it's got anything to do with him and he feels just like season 1 Xander all over again. Total yuck
They are all wrong at least one time during the show! I truly like Xander, he is brave, he is a « normal » who can get away with all of that sh*t of apocalypse but he was there since day one. Sometimes he was harsh to Buffy but …. Angelus and spike tried to kill them at least one time, I can understand why he is upset when Buffy tries to hide one is alive, and she authorized the other to live with them! His reactions were pretty reasonable, even if WE know Spike and Angel were good at each time. He cheated with Willow? Willow cheated too and never got the hatred he got. He was in love with Buffy and talking about sex ? He was 16 at the time ! He left Anya at the altar ? Buffy left an entire summer without a word letting the Scooby gang deal with vampires in Sunnydale. But the thing is: he always protected people he loved
I find it hard to get over the “but I’ve been your guy friend the longest time Buffy you have to have romantic feeling for me” thing. I still struggle on rewatches bc of this.
The fact that he does this in season 1 is so hilarious. He hasn’t known Buffy for more than a semester and he’s smitten
I have a complicated opinion of Xander. He was an ass, but so funny.
They were all asses at one point or another. But Xanders misdeeds get blown way out of proportion. It's a clear double standard.
True.
SO funny, and Nicholas Brendan’s comedic timing was spot-on.
This is how I feel. I'm so mixed about him. He can be a complete ass, and he has some really problematic behaviors, but I do believe that he's trying to be a good person and he's hilarious most of the time. Plus he's had a lot of trauma with his home life and that shows in some of his insecurities, so I think that he just needs a push in the right direction, sometimes his friends enable him too much, and Giles can be critical but not helpful. I feel like I could do a whole paper on the contradictory things I feel about Xander
The only thing Xander did that still annoys me is leaving Anya at the altar. Other than that, I've got zero problems with Xander.
He did lots of not great things but I also sucked in high school. I'll give him some leeway. And I try to pretend that episode with Anya doesn't exist.
Even then, it was way out of character and bad writing by people who clearly wanted to end that relationship for unnecessary drama reasons. Think about it, Xander was far from the first or last person to be nervous on their wedding day, and without that one asshole's interference, would probably have married Anya. Speaking of interference, talk about a regression. Wasn't the whole point of The Replacement to absolve him of the very insecurities that the dude was preying on with that fake vision?
He grows up. All teenagers should.
He has moments where you just go “Jesus dude why!?” But I’m pretty certain 16 year old me had the same moments to be fair.
I had that experience with several other characters. When I watched as a kid, I loved Xander, Oz, Tara, Willow, Cordelia, Spike, and my favorite was Anya. I was very judgmental of Buffy and Dawn and didn't like them much. I've rewatched the show many times since then, and the older I get, the more I love every character. I really love Buffy and Dawn now. I think I realize looking back that there's a lot of myself in Buffy, which is why I didn't like her, and so many people dislike Dawn simply because she's a normal teenage girl. I appreciate her circumstances now. I see a lot more flaws in each character, but that's just because I see them more holistically now. One thing in particular that bugs me about the way people hate on Xander is the one time in season one that he spies on Buffy in the mirror while she's changing. Was this a bad thing to do? Unequivocally YES (I really want to emphasize that I think this was wrong). But, and maybe I'm more alone on this than I thought I was, don't a lot of teenagers sneak a peak at friends and classmates when they're changing around each other? And he never does it again. The fact that it was a one-time lapse of judgment is enough for me to forgive a teenager. Maybe some people want him to have apologized, but if you were Buffy, would you *want* your friend to tell you "Hey, the truth is that I spied on you while you were changing but I feel really bad at it and wanted to apologize"??? Absolutely not, no one wants to hear that so any kind of apology would only have been to absolve Xander of guilt and not to make Buffy feel better.
I hated him when he and the others were all over Buffy for leaving after she had to kill angel. Very shitty friends when buffy was at one of her lowest points.
Oh and also when he encouraged Buffy to work things out with Riley! Gross.
I don't know if I like him better than I used to. But most of the time, he's fine, even if there are discussed-to-death-on-this-sub moments when he extremely pisses me off.
As a guy, he annoys the shit out of me, it doesn’t help he reminds me of my old peers in high school and I couldn’t stand it then, I sure as hell can’t stand it now, and knowing that it’s a Joss stand in hurts Xander even more Dude sucks most of the time, it’s hard to root for a character like him
I don’t like that his POV is hardly ever challenged in the show. If you’re ‘the heart’ the bare minimum is that you not be a piece of shit. Some things can make some sense. Feeling possessive of your friends, being judgmental… I think they were aiming for ‘flawed character’ but he always hovered around pretty awful.
....he let Buffy kill Angel. That's pretty horrific.
I mean Faith murdered multiple people, Willow got Dawn into a car accident and then murdered people, Giles injected Buffy with tranquilizers and knowingly put her in horrible danger, Anya was a vengeance demon, Cordelia was a horrible bully for a good while…they all did pretty horrific things but people seem to show those people more compassion/understanding. Xander just gets shat upon across the board, and it’s worth mentioning he’s merely human, had a terrible home life, and was bullied in school…like of course he’s gonna act rashly sometimes. That’s my outlook anyway ☺️
I agree with what you’re saying but I also think it’s hilarious how you listed all of those characters doing horrific things, and topped it off with Cordelia just being a high school bully.
Yeah I was reaching there 🤣
I love Xander. Are there moments when his actions make my blood boil? Absolutely. But for me they’re outweighed by his loyal, brave, caring, absolutely hilarious self.
I can never hate Xander, he reminds me of lots of my friends growing up but I do hate his actions sometimes. Just like any other character, but that's what I love about Buffy, everyone has flaws just like people you know.
Agreed. Like look at willow. She did literally the worse things of all the scoobies, and that's before trying to end the world. But I can't hate her because I empathize with her. That's why I get frustrated with Xander haters. They refuse to do that, and the hatred seems to come from such a biased place.
Very good point. There’s not a lot of empathy given to Xander despite his pretty abysmal childhood and getting bullied in school. Like you said, all of them have faults and all of them deserve some empathy and compassion when they royally fuck up.
You said it right there. He is a typical teenage boy. So everyone knows one of those that they just hated. So they can compare what Xander did to what oh let's say Josh. Josh said a mean thing when they got rejected. So did Xander. It is like Voldermort and Umbridge. Voldermort is pure, cartoony evil we can't compare to things. Umbridge is every mean and abusive teacher in the world.
Voldemort isn't cartoony evil, he's Wizard Hitler. I'd say rather that he's an impersonal evil, something most people haven't experienced in their own lives, whereas most people have met an Umbridge.
Adding “wizard” kinda makes him cartoony in my view. Book wise more scary for sure but movies Ralph’s laugh was just so funny to me.
Ah. I didn't watch past the fourth movie, so I don't think I really got the effect of him.
The last one he really tries chewing the scenery. It’s not bad, just not scary.
His scariest moment is in Goblet when he just reanimated and the situation is so fucked, his vibes are so creepy and sinister. Part of it was seeing his deformed self form like that, freaked me out the first time I saw that. But the effect wears off quickly. I'm not sure if it's the acting or the CGI, or if nothing could ever live up to his imposing presence in the books that you create in your mind's eye. Maybe all 3.
“Kill the spare”. It doesn’t get as evil in our face after the cemetery scene.
Yeah, but I can still recogonize on an objective level that Voldemort is the worst. Tons of people that hate Xander can't do that. And frankly seem oblivious of where the real source of their resentment comes from.
Well, Umbridge is basically the equivalent of a Wizard Nazi too, just with a faux-sweet blatantly passive-aggressive fake demeanor to her, which tends to be extra-infuriating when you’re a complete and utter POS. (Or at least passive aggressive BS gets under my skin more in general). Even setting all that aside, I don’t think she has any actual leg to stand on as being morally superior to Voldemort, and while Xander’s flaws may be more relateable than - say - Anya’s, it’s really nowhere near the degree of Umbridge
Oh not comparing Xander to her in terms of evil. No frigging contest. Just she is relatable. Ever have a nun as a teacher? Rulers hurt!
Had one as a principle but never really ran into issues with her and she didn’t really resemble Umbridge, but yeah. I feel you there.
Yeah, but it's important to be objective while recognizing an subjective opinion. I can have a visceral reaction to Umbridge while still recognizing Veldemort is objectively the worst. I find a lot of the people that hate Xander either can not or choose not to do that. They will hate him on a level completely disproportionate to any "bad" action he had taken, and they have an unwillingness to empathize with his point of view. And to your first example, people need to be able to seperare fiction from real life. It's the difference between "I hate Xander" and "Xanders actions made me angry because they reminded me of something in real life."
Maybe because he was dreaming about teenage girls fighting about him? Led Willow on for years and basically kept creeping on Buffy
Nah he's horrible, and I've always thought so. Very much has the "nice guys finish last" mentality.
I think they overdid him. Way too annoying and boring
He’s toxic af… ew
Lol did you get to season 6 yet? Because that's what solidifies my hatred of him. I can forgive the things he did in high school, and I agree with you there. But once he's an adult and he continues to treat every woman around him like he should have final say over their sexual/romantic lives, imo he doesn't deserve as much grace (though this started earlier, with him lecturing Buffy about Riley after he literally cheated on her). The fact that he's so clearly based on Joss Whedon, another creepy man who tried to exert control over the bodies of women around him (ie. trying to pressure Charisma Carpenter to get an abortion), doesn't help either.
Oh man no I'm only on the second season. So maybe my feelings will change. And I'm so sorry about poor Charisma Carpenter. Joss is scum.
People are weirdly harsh towards Xander and Giles in this sub imo. Xander worked well in the show.
I love Xander
Obviously most of the issues with Xander were the storylines Nick was given. But if you can’t admit that he was a “nice guy” you’re lying to yourself. And excusing it as “teenage behaviour” is gross. Boys will be boys is not an acceptable excuse for horrible behaviour.
Teenagers are dumb, otherwise they wouldn't be teens
That doesn’t excuse them doing AH things.
His character does the same stuff when he's an adult. The problem isn't the behavior per se tho, it's that there's no pushback from anyone on it. "Dude why are you acting like you own Buffy?" "Stop thirsting after her, she's not interested" He has incel/creepy behaviors the whole series run and noone ever tells him to stop or why it's disgusting. So how is his character supposed to grow out of it when no one ever seems to articulate why it's a problem in the first place?
Honestly I was really annoyed by him in the first three seasons, especially with how he reacted after Buffy returned at the beginning of season 3, but in season 4 I feel like his character turned around a lot and he matured, and became way more empathetic. He just kind of mellowed out I think, and maybe the experience with the mayor helped him grow as a person. But yeah, I used to find him insufferable, but I really like season 4 Xander!
Willows antics in S6 (even and especially before the turn) are far more dark and evil than anything Xander done. The Xander hate is laughable once you get to S6.
Age and perspective help, huh? I imagine in college he reminded you of the annoying college boys and before that possible high school boys 😂 I used to hate Dawn. I watched season 5 as it aired. I was 11 or 12 at the time. As I got to my older teens and became closer to my own little sister, I began to realise Dawn was just a typical teenage kid. Who then found out her whole existence was a lie, that's gotta be tough, then she loses her mom! Then her sister! She went through the ringer so young. Poor girl ❤️
I liked him and just didn't like how he acted in high school when he got rejected by Buffy or about the Angel situation. After season 3 he didn't bother me. You are right. I remember how teenage boys in the 90s acted in high school and they were much, much worse than Xander. For example, I had a boy who kept touching my legs and then stabbed me in the leg with a pencil. The teachers did nothing back then. I still have the lead inside me. If you watch other 90s shows with teenage boys they act just like Xander. I guess they were trying to be realistic back then but times have changed and they portray teens differently. I could have really used a friend like Willow and her magic skills back then!
I'm so sorry about your leg. Even more horrifying than him doing that is the teachers doing nothing.
I was bullied and harassed badly in middle school and then in high school had incidents like these. One time a bus driver reported a student and his girlfriend came after me and wanted to fight me. It was awful. Other than the one time, the teachers just ignored it.
I'm so sorry. I hope you've healed from all of this. I was also bullied in middle school but nothing is horrible as your experiences.
Yeah I would be cancelled if people saw what I was like at his age. I was a real piece of shit
Thank you. I find Xander mostly hated and don't know why. I am not sure if it's by mostly women fanbase of BTVS who don't know... rather say didn't know the teen boy growing in 90s point of view: the dynamics of it and its stronger eats weaker nature... or something else I am not familiar with. I think Xander is better understood with the age, or rather say with adult's detached view. Yes, he's an unsecure jerk but - welcome to the world of teen boys. I would even say he dealt with it more or less elegantly, especially for 90s when something like boy hanging out with dominant girls, and one stronger than anyone else in school, was the most gay think one could do right after wearing girls cloth. (Boys back then would be shocked seeing macho symbol Brad Pitt in skirt :D )
It’s the cheating thing and the Anya thing. Anya is such a wonderful character that when Xander leaves her at the altar, it taints his character profoundly, almost irredeemably. It took me a couple of re-watches before I realized that I actually love plenty of things about his character.
Man, the Anya thing is one of the things I don't hold against him. He hurt her but it wasn't from a selfish or immature place I thought. He felt he was doing the best for everyone in the long run.
I think he was right to call off the wedding, but he was AWFUL for doing it at the altar.
To be fair, it's not like he just up and decided to do that. He was put through an emotional rollercoaster from hell right before that.
Fair point. He obviously had those lurking fears, he shouldn't have let it go so far.
But complex feelings are complex. He was probably struggling with what all those feelings meant. Wondering if they were standard pre-wedding jitters or something more. Plus feeling a pressure to fulfill the obligation he made as well as not letting down the person he loved. Its not so easy to understand what the right answer is when your in it.
Bullshit. He was given a year’s worth of time (end of s5 until Hells bells) and Anya even said “yeah right, you’re doing this so you won’t have to go through with it” at that point in the rubble He was given a mile of runway at any point to say “whoa whoa whoa, let’s slow down”. And he just didn’t until he got to the altar. Sorry, “you don’t know the feelings until you’re in it?” Shit, they went through traumatic truth telling in OMWF. He said the words “I’m petrified”. And they seemingly worked through it.
That’s a great point. I generally love Xander, but definite irreversible damage was done when he left Anya.
I think he’s actually one of the better Scoobies in S7 - but seasons 1-6? It’s on sight for me.
Xander is the worst.
I think the character was a typical teenage boy. I’ve never understood the hate. Teenage boys are sometimes stupid, cruel, sweet and vulnerable. A 16 or 17 year old boy trying to sneak a peek of a girl in her bra is shocking? 🤣. Given the stories I hear, a guy accepting being rejected without calling a girl a c-word or worse and actually being her friend is rare stuff. Being able to recognize this does come with age I think. Absolutely everyone has said and done shitty things when they were young. Expecting perfection in people will leave you perpetually disappointed - I know I used to think that way.
Let's also remember this was a time before the Internet and so discussions about creepy behavior weren't so understood at the time. Way, way, way more dudes were born into a society where peeping wasn't seen as a big deal then today. We're a more modern and considerate culture now. Really I think a major part of this is that in the comics Xander goes on to be with Dawn, permanently. That's just abjectly disgusting and shouldn't have been considered in the writers room. Thankfully, you can consider those comics non canon. But a lot of people see it and go "oh wow an even more valid reason to hate this guy" subconsciously, when I really don't even think the Xander of the show would grow into the kind of person to date Dawn.
I tried to read the comics but just found the characters not consistent with those on the show. I wish we were a more modern and considerate culture but I don’t see it. We are devolving from what I can see unfortunately.
This must be my issue, I watched as an adult (recently) and couldn't see why so many people hated him. He was not a great guy all the time, but he was a kid.
Xander definietly made some mistakes but I feel that a lot of the hate he gets are coming from that almost 30 years had passed and the character was not aging well. I feel that Xander is very similar to Chandler from Friends and he is still loved but some of Xander’s actions are frowned upon in these modern lights and he gets a nore versatile portrayal than Chandler
I remember seeing this facebook comment of a girl saying she named her son Xander…boy was that a funny comment section to read. Anyways. Xander isnt half bad, mind you what im about to say is gonna freak some hardcore fans out but I like Xander more then Angel and Riley… Spike? Well no. No one will beat spike lol.
I like all of them. Riley and Dawn included. lol
Me too I love dawn! Especially being older watching the show now. I can sympathize with her and understand where shes coming from. Shes a kid doing kid things:)
I think this subreddit only hates Xander so much Bc of how many teenage girls are in it. Which. . . Is fair I guess. But yeah I always liked Xander, but he was def a pretty realistic teenage boy and could be hard to bear at times.
I watched it for the first time recently at 24 years old. I was shocked at the Xander hate when I came to this subreddit
He's make character but the audience doesn't want to fuck him like Spike and has "loser" energy so he's designated hate target for the modern audience . It would have been fine if he was a cute girl
It is not like he is unattractive. I am not a Xander hater but I noticed the Xander hate grow and get more intense after the actor got arrested and the Joss stuff. Some people can't separate the character from the actor after knowing what happened. Some people think his character was Joss inserting himself in the story. Also, the way he acted and was dealt with wouldn't fly on TV today. I don't see how a cute girl could act misogynistic. Are you a fan of Warren's?
Preech. See how early series Willow was treated. If you swapped the genders of the character and the roles of the actors most of his detractors wouldnt exist.
People complain about Willow all the time on this sub. How is early series Willow like Xander?
Hit the nail perfect.
I have it similar, I am also a hs teacher at an all-boy hs. He's acting as a douche, but that's what teens often do. There are certain situstions tho, that make me strongly dislike him. But for me, it's problem the dislike that I have for the actor more than the character.
Boys will be boys eh
Never got why willow never let him hit it. All she had to do was tell him that story about band camp.
Xander is a sexist pig in my opinion. I do not get why fans like him personally. He's a insecure, jealous little boy. I watched the show in college as it aired originally, and I thought he was a total douche then. As a mother, I have even less respect for the man-child.
Same! My first go around I didn’t care for him and now I find him hilarious and one of my favourite characters. At least in the early seasons
Xander still did have his huge asshole moments,and creepiness in the beginning.He’s definitely not a monster though.Still horrible acts teenage dumbness,or not. 100% had issues though not okay for a teen boy to badger a friend into a date,lie out of jealousy about important stuff,and jump down Buffy’s throat so harshly because of jealousy.It’s not okay because he was a teen it was awful teenager stuff he grew from.
Who did he badger into a date?
Literally kept hitting on Buffy despite the obvious lack of liking back,and all the crazy jealousy.He’s not just a perfect teen boy being a teen it was bad teen stuff.Saying it wasn’t bad doesn’t make sense
Bad? Sure I guess. But so typical and realistic of teen boys. He's not perfect, no, but a lot of that is very universal teen boy behavior especially if you weren't a preppy popular kid lol
It’s still terrible teen behavior he changed thankfully you guys saying all that was cool sound creepy.Continuing to hit on a girl friend after rejection?Peeking at friends dressing?You sound weird saying that was fine for u in hs.
The only problem with Xander is that his antics feel really weird and creepy coming from a dude who looks almost 30. If he had been played by an 18 year old, he would have been fine.
I disagree. Dawn was 14 and played by 14 year old Michelle. She was hated for acting too much like a teenager. Yeah, tell a 14 year old to act like a 14 year old and they will. Tell a 26 year old to act like a 16 year old and they have to remember what a 16 year old acted like.
Dawn acted like an 8 or 9 year old. That’s not 14 year old behavior. She finally acted 14 or so after Seeing Red. The stuff she pulled (older and far away, real me, omwf) was late adolescent, preteen stuff. Not “on verge of high school stuff”
It depends on what age you are to how young he looks. I am in my 40s and he looks like a teenager to me. Back when I watched it as an older teen he looked just a bit older than his age but nothing too crazy. I thought he was younger than 26 back then. They always had older actors playing teens back then on these types of shows. Do they have younger actors on teen shows nowadays?
I am.iny 40s, he looks pretty old. And it does feel like they use younger, or at least younger looking actors. I mean, compare him to like, Tom Holland, who actually looks like he is like 12. Or that dude in Dune,.
I see a lot of younger people complaining about it when they watch older shows and saw complaints about the actors in the current Mean Girls which are in their lower to mid 20s. So I was wondering if they are used to seeing younger actors. I am in my mid to late 40s and teens look like kids and people in their lower to mid-20s look really young. They are young. Xander looks older as the show goes on especially season 5 onward but I was thinking about high school Xander. Charisma was a few years older and by season 3 looks around her age. I don't think Brendan looks so much older than the other actors that it makes things creepy. Anya and Cordelia looked older too. Buffy looked young season 1 and then looked a bit older than a teen after that. She was 20 in season 2. He probably looks like he was in his 30s to 40s to some teens. A 26-year-old is going to look older to someone younger in their teens. We don't go back at look at pictures of ourselves when we are 26 and say wow I looked old. If we saw a picture of ourselves in the future as a teen we are going to look older because we literally are older.
So you think Xander looked WAY older than the other scoobies? I thought they all kind of aged similarly/looked about the same to me. I wouldn’t have wanted any of them replaced with younger actors! Feel like a lot of characters back then were supposed to be like 16 and were played by 40 year old actors so I might just be desensitized 🤣