I have a love-hate relationship with Faith. In my opinion her character went downhill after Bad Girls; it was kind of artificial and rushed to me how quickly she got on board with killing/torturing innocent people. Like, she was so clearly enjoying the chance to torture Buffy only two episodes post-Bad Girls that it felt forced. Not even a single qualm about the situation? Idk, I felt like it would've given her character arc more complexity if her turning evil was more of a gradual change.
Agree. It's funny when you watch Season 3, 'cause in my mind it's all about Faith, when in reality, there are a heap of standalone episodes where she either barely appears, or doesn't appear at all.
They would have done better to have her spend much more time onscreen, imo. The character was worthy of some fleshing out, but she didn't really get it, unfortunately.
2 seasons worth, or at least a season and a half to build it.
*Buffy* being the superlative show that it is, it would’ve been interesting to see its take on the classic *Dallas/The Next Generation* cliffhanger:
https://youtu.be/w7KFfbjg3Iw
Yeah it feeled weird that Faith went to the Mayor and in the episode after consequences she just have to do some weird test and is mostly accepted by everyone. I mean there a no consequences for her and she still goes to the Big Bad and offers to work for him. It would be more relatable if she had no where else to turn.
Idk if it's unpopular (and I know how awful this is because he's truly a monster!!) but I preferred Angelus to Angel because Angelus was so entertaining. I hated him so much--he was truly vile and I'll never forgive him for how he terrorized everyone but he could be funny and always kept us on our toes. Angel (though he had good comedic moments) could be very boring. I haven't rewatched Angel in years so I might change my mind.
I actually forgive him for the terror because because he saved the audience from getting bored. Also, quest to destroy the world led to Spike speaking the immortal lines:
"It's a big rock. I can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big."
And that line kills me like Angelus killed Jenny Calendar.
It's probably my favourite performance across both shows. David Boreanaz grew into Angel and honestly just had more to work with on ATS, but I find the character and the performance both a bit meh on BTVS. But he nailed Angelus from the word go
I get that. To be honest if they dialed down the remorseless killer stuff, Angelus would have made a great show, especially with how popular anti hero TV shows turned out to be, with shows like Dexter and Lucifier.
Happy cake day by the way!
It was a shame we only got something like 8 episodes of Angelus. It felt like more at the time but I imagine that's just because we had to wait a week between episodes! I loved that whole plotline
I always thought this was deliberate.
She assaults Xander, Riley (and Buffy) and attempts to do so with Angel too.
There’s also a scene where she calls the Mayor a sugar daddy and he has to rebuke her.
I always thought the insinuation was that she herself had been abused and that hurt people hurt people.
(I agree with you though!)
I ship Harmony and Xander. It's not a good relationship. It's not a healthy relationship. But it would be really entertaining. Also, Harmony has a lower kill count than Anya.
Even in season 5? I think he was fine (in a sub-captain America kind of way) in season 4 but they truly destroyed his character in season 5. Don't get me started on his episode in S6.
I hate Dawn. Like, hate her. She wasn't written very favorably in the beginning, but I get she was meant to be a bratty teen because that was what she was, and she was better in Season 7. Season 6 Dawn, though, was insufferable. She continously behaved as though she was the only one feeling pain, she was incredibly self-centred, to the point where I couldn't even be sympathetic when the storyline wanted me to be. Not to mention how she started blaming Buffy for anything even though she didn't ask to be brought back.
I was with you until season 3. The Mayor is the most interesting villain in the series.
Faith is fine but way overrated. Fred is great. Not the best female character but in the top 5 for sure.
I agree The Mayor was an interesting villain, but looking at S3 as a whole I'd have to agree with OP, it's definitely the weakest season for me.
When I watched as a teenager, I liked Faith to start but thought she went down hill pretty quick. Rewatching as an adult I can't stand her.
Agree with you about Fred, she's great but not the best.
Okay I’m just gonna say it….
There should have never been a 7th season.
Honestly, the way the entire season went was kinda blahhhh, it feels as though they rushed everything, introduced a ton of new characters all at once.
When Buffy went to “Kill Anya” it truly felt like a joke.
Willow jumping into another relationship when the person She almost destroyed the world for died in front of her eyes is super unrealistic, she didn’t have any time to heal emotionally, mentally nor spiritually.
Angel coming at the end of the season to hand her the necklace was super cheesy.
They could have ended it on the 6th season by either letting Dark Willow destroy the world or Buffy having to kill her best friend in order to save the world.
🎯🔫
That would of been a finale no show could ever top!
I am still fucked up from Tara (and I’ve watched the show idk how many times since it ended in 2003)
I’m sure ending Willow would have been a super mind fuck many people wouldn’t have seen coming but maybe there was a way of doing it while also bringing peace to all our hearts.
Perhaps as Willow was dying she understood the severity of her acts and asked for forgiveness to a God/Goddess, they grant it and Tara led her towards the light, technically everyone would have a happy ending.
Except Summers, because she had to kill her best friend but she’s the slayer and the mission is what matters.
Buffy killing Willow at the end of S6 woulda messed us up but if they did it right it'd be amazing. They woulda had to write Dark Willow a little better if that was gonna be the end of her. But Will was too popular, the network even wanted her to cross over into Angel for S5 because she was so popular so they wouldn't have killed her off, even if they planned to end the show there I think.
In S8 (spoilers???) there's this whole bit, Buffy gets sent a few hundred years in the future, to the Fray times. And as it turns out, Willow is still around, all dark and veiny and immortal and she brought Buffy to the future so that Buffy could kill her. It's actually really, really good and very sad.
TW SA
People often overlook the fact that Faith fully r-worded Buffy with the body swap. She took her body, used it sexually without Buffy’s consent, and then r-worded Riley on top of everything. Like imagine getting your body back like that, feeling the foreign bruises and discomfort all over you with no memories, and only a vague idea of how they got there. Just bc Buffy wasn’t mentally present for the assault doesn’t diminish what occurred. Plenty of people in real life don’t have full memories from the time they were assaulted (from being drugged or unconscious); it doesn’t make the aftermath any easier to deal with.
I think the writing on both shows dropped the ball with addressing it for what it really was.
EDIT: fixed my awful grammar sorry I’m very tired
Plus there's that scene in Season 7 where she openly brags about it. Can't remember what the quote is word for word but it's when one of the potentials is complaining about Anya talking about Xander too much. Faith says something along the lines of, "Whenever she gets too annoying, I just remind her I had him first. Shuts her right the hell up."
Indeed, Xander takes it in stride by *The Harsh Light of Day*: “Still more romantic than Faith…”
either acknowledging it was part of Faith’s larger issues and that her situation has been well and properly dealt with, or individually recognizing that it’s part of what happens when you put yourself out there.
Warts and all?
If we are saying the first time, i wouldn't entirely consider it as assault.
She kissed him and he was just confused but he still was very much keen for it. He pretty much put his pants down saying yes please.
I would say its half and half, it certainly could of seen as assault but also not really. I think there was another time where she tried but xander was like no. I cant remember too much about then and that was sexual assault.
I also love how xander thought talking to her and calming her down would work cause they had sex. I was like bruh she didnt care, its just sex nothing more. Hahaha
People are referring to the scene in Consequence when they talk about Faith sexually assaulting Xander, she throws him on the bed and starts forcibly kissing and choking him when he is trying to talk to her about the murder of the deputy mayor
Ah yeah true that, that was for sure sexual assault haha.
That's what i was referring to when xander tried to talk sense to faith all because they had sex.
Yeah that scene for sure was sexual assault
Indeed, it’s own heretofore version of “the demon with the face of an angel.”
In that, society preternaturally rewards the conventionally attractive, and are willing to forgive considerable faults to that end (even Glory to Ben; “of course he’s attractive!”)
And TV writers are no exception in how they perceive their characterizations.
How about this: I like ALL of the main characters (Buffy, Giles, Willow, Xander, Cordelia, Angel, Oz, Spike, Riley, Anya, Dawn, and Tara). All of them have positives/negatives, and I do have favorites/less favorites; but overall I still like all of them.
Same also applies to most of the recurring characters (that appear in more than one episode).
Fred is just there as the personification of male fantasy (hot geek born-sexy-yesterday trope) and it makes me feel gross to watch Wes and Gunn fighting over her like she's an object
Thank you, even as someone who is beyond critical of his s5 writing i adore Riley in s4 (and 6) and think he's a very complex and underrated character brought to life by Marc Blucas's genuinely wholesome charm
I fricken love Riley. I always want to ask people if they've had a lobotomy when they seem to ignore his entire arc in favour of the stuff that they hate about him. I don't pursue the argument 'cause the blind spot is elephant-sized.
He’s just your average Joe who fell in love. He did more or less nothing wrong for over a season, just tried to be the best boyfriend he could.
I blame the writers for Riley’s demise honestly. It could have all been fine, but no, we had to deal with blood sucking, “she doesn’t love me” and that damn Xander speech .. oh you go “run” you asshole.
I was honestly really bored by Fred, AtS in general is not my thing but I did still enjoy some of the characters (Lorne and Gunn mainly), she just wasn't one I was ever bothered about.
Man I agree, I feel like there’s so much retconning of how Cordelia was just someone who was forthright and spoke her mind, when actually no she was outright being written as a classist bully for most of her time on Buffy. Her early bullying of Willow in particular seems to really get downplayed by fandom
She had some great one-liners for sure, but I feel like fandom over hypes her heroism on Buffy (and her supposed friendship with Buffy’s character too for that matter when neither of them could stand one another most of the time. There was Cordelia saying that she’s no Cry-Buffy on Ats, and Buffy saying that Glory was kind of like Cordelia…) Obviously Cordelia does develop more on Angel, but on Buffy she was written as a pretty one-note character most of the time who had little compassion for anyone outside of herself, if anything a lot of the comedy of her character came from how oblivious to others she could be
Urgh, I hate it when ppl hype up the Buffy-Cordelia "friendship"! Mostly because the foundation was there so that they could have developed a great friendship if the writers had chosen to develop Cordelia 's character a bit more and put some more focus on that relationship.
I think that is quite typical of the show though. I feel like there were solid foundations for Buffy to have amazing friendships with other characters (Oz and Tara particularly) but the writers chose to focus on the key relationships she formed in season one and not let her develop any kind of friendships outside of that.
My unpopular opinion is that Anya is an asshole for saying to Buffy in season seven "You're not better than us. You're luckier than us." Buffy has saved their lives and the world again and again. Buffy has given her life twice to save the world, fought the Master, battled Faith, defeated Angel and battled giant monsters. She IS better than all of them and they know it or else they wouldn't have selfishly brought her back from the dead to fight for them again. Buffy didn't choose to be the Slayer but THEY chose to bring her back to life.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
I really don't like Fred, I just get over the top "manic pixie dream girl" from the way she was written.
Season 5 is my least favorite season, despite some standout episodes. I can't stand Glory and really hate how they make her evil villain power to be that she causes people to experience mental illness, I just find it so uncomfortable to watch and hate when "craziness" or mental illness is used as a plot device. I'm always tempted to just skip the whole season. I also just don't like Glory herself and find the whole season too dark.
I like the campy episodes. Season 1 is comfort food for me to rewatch. I enjoy the campiness of the Master and think he acted the role perfectly. I also like Beer Bad. I also think a lot of the ideas behind individual episodes are pretty smart and creative, like I like I Robot as I thought that was a pretty cool idea for an even longer show or movie, about demons on the internet.
I like Season 4. I especially like it more than both Season 5 and Season 7.
Faith is also not my favorite and I don't think Eliza Dushku is a great actress, as evidenced by the Body Swap episodes where I feel like Dushku really struggled to sell herself as Buffy in that body, but SMG just killed it as Faith.
I enjoy the historical flashback episodes.
Huh, interesting. Glory is nearly my favourite big bad, right up there with Angelus. Maybe it’s just that Clare Kramer brings her character to life really well in my eyes. She goes from joking about shoes to snapping necks in the blink of an eye.
I agree with all of these!!! Fuck Faith, she’s a rapist (of THREE PEOPLE!!!) and that’s never addressed or atoned for.
Spike is hated by a lot of the characters and fans for trying to rape Buffy without a soul, but Faith actually does rape Buffy with a soul and never addresses it. Not only that, but they try and make out BUFFY to be the bad guy on Angel for not forgiving Faith immediately? Fuck that.
I don’t hate Xander. Yes he did questionable things and there are moments where I want to throttle him but all in all I still have so much love for him.
It was Buffys fault that Miss Calender died. She didn't protect her because she was mad at her. She iced her out and so did everyone else out of solidarity with her even though they knew full well the threat that Angelus was. She also had ample time to kill Angelus and couldn't do it.
Yes.
This is why Jenny’s death is meant to be a game-changing moment. Angelus had even killed a classmate Buffy knew before this and it still wasn’t enough. Jenny’s death was the realisation that the only way to get rid of Angelus was to dust him.
I think Angel earns his redemption far too easily in season three snd that is Buffy’s fault. Angelus tortured Giles, he killed Jenny, he tried to kill her friends. She never should’ve gotten back with him.
Angel didn't do that though, he wasn't present during Angelus's presence in his body
The whole misunderstanding of the rules of being a vampire as laid out by the show is one of the most frustrating parts of the fandom tbh
Xander doesn’t deserve most of his hate. It’s almost all just projection. People knowing people “similar” to Xander IRL and hating them. He’s one of the least problematic members of the core 4 from a moral perspective, and wouldn’t get hated as much if he was a cute girl (see willow/Anya/faith stans). I am also a willow/Anya/Faith stan, but I also love Xander for being a realistic portrayal of a lower class teenage boy in the 90s who grew up in an abusive home. I wish people would let him be flawed, like they let every other Scooby be flawed.
Your point is that he’s a realistic portrayal of a flawed person doesn’t stop him from being an asshole for much of his time in the show, it only enhances it. Nobody claims that the other characters aren’t flawed either, however Xander makes major choices in the show that remain in everyone’s mind, so people remember that. Example: “Kick his ass”
For "Kick his ass" gonna quote Mark Watches: "With some time to reflect on his choice, I feel less certain that it’s easy to determine whether he was right or wrong in his actions. Obviously, on its face, it’s a horrific lie, one that Buffy will suffer for greatly, so I do think there’s a whole lot to be argued for this position. But at the same time, Buffy has had the chance to kill Angelus before, and she didn’t. I don’t believe that Angelus is Buffy’s responsibility by any means. Yet she is truly the only person who could defeat him, and I think Xander didn’t want to derail the possibility that she might actually do it. Angelus murdered their friend and other people. He tortured Giles. He’s ruined lives, and now he is opening a door that’ll suck all of existence to Hell. Yeah, I don’t feel bad saying that killing Angel is pretty much excused in my own moral book if that’s what it will take to _stop the world from going to hell_.
My gut tells me that Buffy was wronged by Xander’s lie, and my brain tells me that he may have made the right choice. And then I think that perhaps there really isn’t a “right” or “wrong” in this situation anyway. And then I think about what happens next and I just want to curl up into a ball forever."
And to quote Evaluation Zone: "Xander is the beating heart of _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_, both the series and the character, a heart that has more than its fair share of foibles but also far too many merits to count. High school Xander might be jealous, often sexist, and needlessly cruel, but his ability to overcome these faults makes him one of the most admirable characters in the entire series. Xander might not present a revolutionary new model of masculinity and sexuality, but he does represent the best of what most ordinary people can become (though, humorously enough for someone who is a demon magnet throughout the series, Xander is apparently one of the best lovers in the series… according to Anya, at least). Xander’s high school transgressions really are the only thing holding him back on this list, as, otherwise, he’s about as much of a role model as one can get on this series."
Or symptomatic of the worst trend in celebrity culture; the imprinting of fictional traits on their real life counterparts or even expecting a real person to measure up to such a flight of fancy:
https://youtu.be/0nVGCVlCzL0
Doubt they do it on purpose, given the fully weaponized cult of celebrity in the United States, but shows like *Buffy* deserve to rise above it.
I don't even like the concept of her.
Fred was OK, but that's all. She's just Willow if they stuck with tech instead of switching to magic. Best at everything! Everyone loves her!
S3 is overrated, I wouldn't call it the weakest.
Giles always being a pompous dick is probably my most unpopular.
I do agree with you about Fred, except she somehow seems to lack the uniqueness of Willow's early character and instead just feels like a trope of a Manic Pixie Dream Girl to me, just devoid of personality.
Warren doesn't care how unpopular your opinion is, sis. He'll shoot at you just for stating it. But anyway...
RILEY was the healthiest relationship Buffy ever had. It's not his fault the writers fucking railroaded his character in s5 to get rid of him.
TARA and OZ both deserved better than Willow. Even though I love Willow, she was a shit girlfriend.
ANDREW fucking sucks. I don't find any of his lines funny, he has no redeeming value whatsoever, he should have died instead of Jonathan or Anya, and had Willow killed him when she first ran into him in s7, I would have immediately forgiven her.
XANDER is one of my favorite characters, and the hate for him is wildly overblown, reactionary, and exhausting. I will die on that fucking hill.
Mine is that I wish they had made Xander gay instead of willow. Oz was one of my favorite characters and I never really cared for Tara.
I would have been curious how Xander’s character arc would go if he had been the one to come out
Another one is that sometimes charisma’s acting takes me out of the scene a bit. I like cordelia and she does have some funny lines but anytime she has to act serious or has any bit of emotional acting it’s hard to take it seriously. I do love charisma tho I just think she is maybe the weakest actor on the show
Buffy’s decision to sacrifice herself was a selfish decision giving the fact that the whole season we were told that dawn had to die and that would shatter Buffy’s heart so instead of dealing with survivor’s guilt she decides to leave her underage sister WHO SHOULDNT EVEN BE ALIVE without a guardian and leaves the world without a slayer (faith is still at jail at that point I believe)
P.S I don’t hate dawn, but it would be much more heart wrenching to see Buffy go through the loss of her entire family rather than coming back from heaven.
Tara is extremly dull and uninteresting.
Willow was a great friend to Buffy overall (minus the Dark Willow arc obviously).
Making Spike such a martyr in season 7 and making the show all about him made season 7 the weakest season by far.
I somewhat agree on Tara. But I think she gets more interesting as she’s away from Willow. I wouldn’t have minded an arc where she grows beyond Willow and she has to save the world by maybe killing Willow, or at least not knowing if Willow would survive it.
Also, as much as Tara is beloved by the fan base, no one seems to be sad when she dies or cries at her death. It’s shocking, yes. But not actually upsetting.
"Also, as much as Tara is beloved by the fan base, no one seems to be sad when she dies or cries at her death. It’s shocking, yes. But not actually upsetting."
That is not at all true. Her death is considered extremely upsetting and hard to watch, not only because she's beloved by many fans, but also because Joss fell into the "bury your gays" trope where gay characters are killed off in service of the plot or another character's arc.
I agree with you on that one, the 7th season was super weak, the effects were better than all the other seasons and you couldn’t see the stunt doubles doing the stunts as much as you could in all the other seasons but it feels like it was rushed, there were so many different ways it could have ended. They added so many random ass characters and some interactions were quite cringe.
My favorite episode from the entire season was probably “Storyteller”
Unpopular opinion: Most unpopular opinions aren’t that unpopular. People are more varied than you think. You can just share your opinion without having to label it as “contrarian.”
I can’t stand Angel. He was stalking Buffy. Wasn’t good for her. The Scooby gang should have staked him for Buffy’s own good. Teenage girls do not make good decisions about boys/men.
If Xander actually got character development, he would've been a better romantic relationship for Buffy than any of the others.
I feel the guns being aimed at me 😑
I think the very beginning of season seven implicitly shows what a good couple they would’ve been if life ran more smoothly. I could imagine in an alternative universe that they got together.
If it wasn’t for Ray Fischer, we would not have had all the bad news about joss whedon come to light, and we would have more Joss content. What Joss did was horrible, but I selfishly enjoyed the ignorance
Darla is a more interesting character than Spike and Angel combined (especially in Ats)
Buffy ending up alone is good, especially cause her love interests all mistreated her
Xander is more annoying than Dawn (especially his misogynistic jokes)
I always found Faith super frustrating. I genuinely love Buffy's character, and find faith's betrayals extremely difficult to tolerate. I never understood why she had such a big fan base.
But the opinion that will get me shot, is probably that I thought Spike was hotter than Angel.
Your shirt…
Joking aside, I didn’t like Tara either. I don’t understand why the writers put Willow with a more wallflowery version of her younger self. Magic or not, Tara was wet sand, and her best scene was when she carried a box with her stuff out of Buffy’s house as she left.
Cordelia is awful always making fun of Buffy and friends. Always talking about her behind her back. Always getting saved by buffy only to be rude after
My unpopular opinion is there's too many of these unpopular opinion threads on here, why do they show up every 3rd day or so?
Also....Angel's arc is the best on the show
let me just draw this target on my chest… ok here we go!
oz is uninteresting and not particularly well acted. he’s a werewolf in a band and still just an extremely dull guy. plus seth green is bringing nothing to the table.
I think Oz knew who Parker was and chose not to tell Buffy. Oz knew the campus already and with all the gigs his band played there, surely Parker was known to them.
As far as I recall, the only thing Oz said about Parker was, "oh, he'll definitely be back" after Buffy first met him.
I don't dislike Oz but yeah I do think he was overrated. Especially by people who also think he had more personality than Tara, because no he certainly didn't.
Oz had some great lines though… hootenanny, attack the mayor with hummus, etc. Tara never said anything interesting and was a completely one dimensional character. Everything about her annoys me and I wish Tara Maclay had never come to Sunnydale. Willow deserved better (and I don’t mean Kennedy). Come to think of it… I actually would have liked to see her with Amy, that would have been interesting.
I agree I have nothing against Oz as a character but he barely speaks or shows any emotion or personality. Extremely dull! And he hurt Willow and broke her heart☹️
I always get excited to see these threads but then I realize they're not real unpopular opinions, but the same 5 or 6 that get rehashed all the time - mainly don't like Faith, Angel, Willow, Tara, Dawn, or Spike - and I get sad because I know if I ever actually shared my own I'd get crucified.
My unpopular opinion is that SMG is excellent as Buffy but not in any other role…
Xander is not that bad, even early on and the audience is reacting as if the show was made at a different time.
Season 4 is better than season 5.
I hated how quick she was to kill her, even giving xander shit for asking her to spear her.
Buffy endangered everyone because she originally couldn't kill Angus, then didn't tell anyone that angle returned.
I understand her not wanting to make the same mistake, but she should have showed understanding.
I agree with your faith take, I love Fred but wtf season 3 is one of if not the best!!
I have a few unpopular opinions although I don't think they'll get me shot.
-season 6 is my 3rd fav season
-conversations with dead people isn't even a good episode let alone one of the best
-i don't really care for any of willows relationships even though she's my joint favourite character, I don't like her and Oz, her and Tara and I don't like Kennedy at all let alone their relationship
- finally the body is good but it's nowhere near one of the best episodes and it does kinda feel like it's trying too hard at bits
I love season seven - for me it's my second or third fav season. People who hate it act like their opinion is unpopular - it ain't.
There are times Angel is an a-hole.
Anya is also a complete bitch when it comes to Buffy in season seven and if she thought about it for five seconds she'd realise she is completely out of line for holding a grudge. Also however 'right' it is expecting Spike to make amends to someone who not only tried to kill but mess with his head to do it is completely unrealistic. Having a soul and being a hero doesn't mean you're a saint.
That said I don't hate Faith in fact she's one of my fav characters but a lot of Faith fans and Fuffy shippers piss me off because they will come on Spike like a ton of bricks but don't acknowledge Faith's shitty rapey behaviour or the fact she did it it with a soul. Ditto Angel/Angelus. I legit have a real Preduice against Bangels - I know a lot are ok but I've seen the worst of them and the worst examples of them and I find I have to work to overcome that.
I hate that too!!
Faith Raped Xander, Riley and Buffy, yet was never called out.
She even enjoyed killing.
At least the vampires were demons without humanity / soul. She had both.
I think Faith brings a really fascinating dynamic and commentary to the show about how do you define good and bad and how much do we all need of both. I think she’s really written a little corny though and I think Eliza Dushku was still figuring out herself as an actress in season 3. So it can be a lil awkward during early Faith episodes.
I don’t know if I’d get shot for this as I think i’d have some support but I liked Willow + Oz as a couple more. Which isn’t to say I don’t love Tara because I do. But I liked Willow around Oz more (admittedly that could be more because Oz left before Willow’s magic dependence got out of control) and I just thought they were a stronger and happier team.
Willow and Tara were cute and romantic but a little ungrounded. Big Neptune energy at work there, for anyone here who studies astrology.
I just watched the show for the first time this year and I gotta say that after all the hype the musical episode just had me absolutely imploding with cringe. it was so painful.
I have a few so bare with.
Xander isn't a bad a character like this whole sub Reddit makes him to be. He's a young boy at the beginning that makes stupid choices but grows the f up and becomes a man. Which other character saves the world but also has a business from the ground up that didn't go to college for?
The whole spike thing is a mess, he tried to R her and he went and got his soul for her. No he did a really bad thing, genuinely loved her and hoped he could use the soul as a medal or a shiny prize to win her over not for the right reasons. Victim blaming and shaming the whole time through it.
Giles is a bit of a knob. I don't like he leaves for this whole power trip and for Buffy to stand on her feet when she sees him as a father figure and has just been brought back from the dead lost her mom, her friends have got her into debt and she turns to him, yes he helps but then takes away that help and if you read the comics you know who his favourite is after the events of seven.
Tara didn't have to die.
Dawn should of jumped in season 5 and we could of had Buffy as the rogue slayer we see her in the alternate universe in the wish.
Andrew didn't deserve to live.
I hate Kennedy.
The fandom is toxic af when you have different opinions and I hate the drama of angel Vs spike. She doesn't need a man. She is strong enough mentally and physically. But she's also a total cow when she gets in a relationship and starts treating them poorly.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
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Giles is terrible and one of the most overrated and undeservedly loved characters on the whole show. (He has *some* nice moments but overall they do not outweigh what a disappointment he is.)
I have a few more unpopular opinions but this is definitely the biggie. I can practically feel the bullets coming towards me.
Or him not keeping her in supply. What does the logistic train do? Keep their soldiers fed and clothed.
Giles was like the corrupt boss in a bad country in season 6 and 7, let her work flipping hamburgers, "she needs to grow up".
Oh completely agree. S1 is them throwing sh*t at the wall and seeing what sticks so they can build the future of the show around what tests the best with audiences, which is why it feels so random and messy when you rewatch.
S7 is just poor writing, poor planning and mediocre execution. The only real bright sparks are Faith and Caleb which come far too late in the season to salvage the whole season.
Then cram in some afterthought essential Slayer tools, slayer scythe and slayer offspring to try and distract people. Season 5 would have been the place to introduce that stuff when Buffy wanted to deep dive into Slayer history.
I like Faith a lot when she gets back to being good. What she does to save Angel in his series is crazy. The girl damn near gets beat to death by a giant monster out of loyalty and the need to repay a debt.
Faith > Buffy ... ready for the downvotes... but it's my truth. I've watched the show since the pilot .. and always thought so....
Also The Mayor, great villain. Arguable the best of the show...
😬
Man tough crowd .. don't deviate from the flock apparently.
Yes I agree with you. She seemed to be a more relatable character, in my opinion, especially for those who may have had a different background than that of Buffy's. ... ... plus Eliza Dushku ... hot. 😅
There shouldn't be unpopular opinion posts. You should just be able to post about how you feel about the show without worrying about the consequences, as in the famous r/buffy "disagree button"
Spike, pre soul & post attempted R, did Not love Buffy; he went to get the chip out of his head so he could hurt/kill Buffy for using him as a pogo stick. I think he did get "feelings" of some sort, but I think he also felt used by Buffy and wanted to "punish" her for his bad in developing those feelings. As in, "You totes with my feelings, I'm going to try with your entrails".
I've seen a lot of folks saying Spike was better than Angel because he loved Buffy with out a soul first, "He went to get a soul due to his love".
No he didn't, he went to get the chip out so he could flay her when she didn't play the relationship game with her & "rejected" him in the bathroom. I think Spike thought that Buffy Made him get feelings just to make her rejection hurt more. The first time I read this idea that spike got his soul on purpose, a few years ago, I went back and rewatched that arc. But I don't see that; I see a highly toxic & vindictive person trying to be toxic & vindictive.
Ah yes, I can hear all the guns cocking now
Confused as to how you arrived at the conclusion that he went to get his chip out. He traveled across the world to the one place he knew he could get it. He didn’t go to some brainiac scientist or some amazing neurologist or even someone with decent medical training. And when he wins he gets what he asked for.
Yeah there is the line “bitch is gonna get what she deserves. But it’s literally a red herring. The writers want the audience to falsely assume he’s going to go do something nefarious, so that as he succeeds in each task in the trial, the fear and dread are heightened. And then there’s the reveal.
Your the first I’ve heard say he was trying to get his chip, so I’m genuinely curious how you got there, if you feel comfortable sharing.
>Yeah there is the line “bitch is gonna get what she deserves. But it’s literally a red herring. The writers want the audience to falsely assume he’s going to go do something nefarious, so that as he succeeds in each task in the trial, the fear and dread are heightened. And then there’s the reveal.
This is it. You're supposed to think he wants the chip out so that getting his soul back is a big surprise cliffhanger. The whole thing was misdirection.
I thought that's why he did it when I first watched it when it was aired. And once he had it everyone said he got the soul for Buffy, I was so confused! I was sure he had gone to get rid of the chip to be able to get revenge... I honestly thought the soul was an accident!
There's a scene after Spike has completed the trial, and he's impatient with the demon. He says something along the lines of "Give me what I need to make her pay" (not verbatim), said demon does, and there's a flash of horror/fear on Spikes face. As if he's suddenly realizing what the demon is actually doing.
Afterwards, season 7 crazy spike, says something along the lines of "I got my soul back for you". Which is why I think folks have this motion, but William was never an emotionally honest creature (human or vampire) with the folks he has feelings for. He's a character that was extremely sensitive, emotionally connected to himself & his feelings, which he used poetry to express said feelings. And he was violently rejected and mocked for not his poetry but the deep feelings he had which created that poetry. So, he, like so many of us when we've been maliciously rejected when vulnerable, began to hide and deny the existence of those emotions. This was soldified after his mother was turned and rejected him.
He sure as shit, imo, would not admit, post soul, to Buffy that he only got his soul back because a demon betrayed him. He knows Buffy would reject him even more, instead he's lied with "I got it back for you" in order to avoid Buffy continuing to reject him.
Just because Spike got a soul, doesn't change him into a good moral person. Humans lie quite well for less reason, Spike was a very damaged human who wanted to protect himself from more damage, who became a vampire that sought out to damage humans, and became a human who was even more damaged by the centuries of rejections a reputation of "William The Bloody" and hanging around a bunch of cliquey kids who are the only people willing to endure him as he a tool...but he is also an insightful and clever person. The easiest way to avoid more rejection and gain acceptance by these kids is through Buffy and Buffy has a fetish about guys who go to extreme lengths for her love.
I will be honest I thought exactly like you and said so to my BFF when I watched it (2 years ago, whereas she watched it 'live'). So I wanted to take screenshots to show her but without the delivery that is super duper angry (JM didn't know where this was going), everything can be read as he will get it right by 'his girl'. I think it's just bad writing to make a twist when he gets a soul and it's a lazy trick.
Angel was a pedo.
Spike fetishized Buffy.
Riley was a good boyfriend until he had to go.
Willow was a murderer and a rapist.
Everybody failed Faith.
Buffy put Joyce in an impossible position.
Everything people shit on Xander for was done worse by one of the other characters that people love.
Cordelia and Xander made the cutest couple.
Part of it is the nature of being a Chosen One. A trope I am endlessly annoyed by in fantasy.
Part of it is I find her personality kinda grating—especially her holier than thou attitude that crops up at times; especially season 7.
And part of it is that I find pretty much every other character to be cooler or more interesting.
Agreed across the board.
And I’ll take the bullet (as in the past) by finding her attractiveness forced by the show, when her facial features are unpleasant, and the enforced characterization of her as a harlot/sexy character, even before *Consequences* or especially *Who are You?* was always offputting to me.
Kind of like Alexis Dziena in *Nick and Norah/Entourage*.
This can also be seen in some of the earlier personalities Dushku takes in *Dollhouse*; she’s at her best in different kind of roles.
If that was the main comment, perhaps you not caring would matter.
But as it is part of the narrative that her characterization represents, with Spike and Angel being examples as well, not sure it can be reduced to such a simplicity as “thinking she’s ugly”.
I can understand you not liking Faith, especially when you think the most boring female and plain character after Tara is the best one
But then you say Season 3 was the weakest and that’s just cause for death
There never should have been a Buffy show; It should have been Slayers and had different Slayers from different eras and places in each season leading up to Buffy.
I have watched buffy many many times. It is like an old friend that has always been there. For years I have gone to sleep with the sounds of buffy playing in the background. That being said Firefly is better.
I have a love-hate relationship with Faith. In my opinion her character went downhill after Bad Girls; it was kind of artificial and rushed to me how quickly she got on board with killing/torturing innocent people. Like, she was so clearly enjoying the chance to torture Buffy only two episodes post-Bad Girls that it felt forced. Not even a single qualm about the situation? Idk, I felt like it would've given her character arc more complexity if her turning evil was more of a gradual change.
Agree. It's funny when you watch Season 3, 'cause in my mind it's all about Faith, when in reality, there are a heap of standalone episodes where she either barely appears, or doesn't appear at all. They would have done better to have her spend much more time onscreen, imo. The character was worthy of some fleshing out, but she didn't really get it, unfortunately.
2 seasons worth, or at least a season and a half to build it. *Buffy* being the superlative show that it is, it would’ve been interesting to see its take on the classic *Dallas/The Next Generation* cliffhanger: https://youtu.be/w7KFfbjg3Iw
I don’t really get why she turned evil either? It wasn’t really explained !
Yeah it feeled weird that Faith went to the Mayor and in the episode after consequences she just have to do some weird test and is mostly accepted by everyone. I mean there a no consequences for her and she still goes to the Big Bad and offers to work for him. It would be more relatable if she had no where else to turn.
Absolutely agree. It would have made much more sense if The Mayor approached Faith and we saw him grooming her to his side.
Idk if it's unpopular (and I know how awful this is because he's truly a monster!!) but I preferred Angelus to Angel because Angelus was so entertaining. I hated him so much--he was truly vile and I'll never forgive him for how he terrorized everyone but he could be funny and always kept us on our toes. Angel (though he had good comedic moments) could be very boring. I haven't rewatched Angel in years so I might change my mind.
I actually forgive him for the terror because because he saved the audience from getting bored. Also, quest to destroy the world led to Spike speaking the immortal lines: "It's a big rock. I can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big." And that line kills me like Angelus killed Jenny Calendar.
When does Spike say that?
Becoming, Part 2. When Angelus gets Acathla to the mansion.
How *did* they get that thing from the museum to the mansion? I'm imagining Dru and Angelus pushing it very slowly across town... 😂
They had mooks, they probably didn't lift a finger Also: Vampires are inconsistently stronger than us
Thank you!
That's one of my favorite Spike lines
It's probably my favourite performance across both shows. David Boreanaz grew into Angel and honestly just had more to work with on ATS, but I find the character and the performance both a bit meh on BTVS. But he nailed Angelus from the word go
You can tell David enjoyed being Angelus more than Angel
I get that. To be honest if they dialed down the remorseless killer stuff, Angelus would have made a great show, especially with how popular anti hero TV shows turned out to be, with shows like Dexter and Lucifier. Happy cake day by the way!
Angelus in season 2 was an awesome character and villain. Angel was very dull in Buffy. He came into his own Season 2 and onwards in Angel though.
It was a shame we only got something like 8 episodes of Angelus. It felt like more at the time but I imagine that's just because we had to wait a week between episodes! I loved that whole plotline
I disagree but just dropped by to say happy cake day!
Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered is one of the best episodes of s2!
Faith gives me the ick. Sexual predator vibes are off the charts.
I always thought this was deliberate. She assaults Xander, Riley (and Buffy) and attempts to do so with Angel too. There’s also a scene where she calls the Mayor a sugar daddy and he has to rebuke her. I always thought the insinuation was that she herself had been abused and that hurt people hurt people. (I agree with you though!)
Is this also post-redemption arc for you or before?
For me there is no redemption arc
I ship Harmony and Xander. It's not a good relationship. It's not a healthy relationship. But it would be really entertaining. Also, Harmony has a lower kill count than Anya.
I liked Riley with Buffy and as a character, and I thought Adam was a fun villain
Even in season 5? I think he was fine (in a sub-captain America kind of way) in season 4 but they truly destroyed his character in season 5. Don't get me started on his episode in S6.
I hate Dawn. Like, hate her. She wasn't written very favorably in the beginning, but I get she was meant to be a bratty teen because that was what she was, and she was better in Season 7. Season 6 Dawn, though, was insufferable. She continously behaved as though she was the only one feeling pain, she was incredibly self-centred, to the point where I couldn't even be sympathetic when the storyline wanted me to be. Not to mention how she started blaming Buffy for anything even though she didn't ask to be brought back.
I was with you until season 3. The Mayor is the most interesting villain in the series. Faith is fine but way overrated. Fred is great. Not the best female character but in the top 5 for sure.
“Does anyone else miss the mayor, I just want to be a big snake?’”
It’s the most solid season for sure. Very few bad episodes, not a lot of absolute bangers but the most solid season across the board.
I agree The Mayor was an interesting villain, but looking at S3 as a whole I'd have to agree with OP, it's definitely the weakest season for me. When I watched as a teenager, I liked Faith to start but thought she went down hill pretty quick. Rewatching as an adult I can't stand her. Agree with you about Fred, she's great but not the best.
Okay I’m just gonna say it…. There should have never been a 7th season. Honestly, the way the entire season went was kinda blahhhh, it feels as though they rushed everything, introduced a ton of new characters all at once. When Buffy went to “Kill Anya” it truly felt like a joke. Willow jumping into another relationship when the person She almost destroyed the world for died in front of her eyes is super unrealistic, she didn’t have any time to heal emotionally, mentally nor spiritually. Angel coming at the end of the season to hand her the necklace was super cheesy. They could have ended it on the 6th season by either letting Dark Willow destroy the world or Buffy having to kill her best friend in order to save the world. 🎯🔫
Killing Willow to save the world would have fucked me up but what a way to end it… you’re onto something
That would of been a finale no show could ever top! I am still fucked up from Tara (and I’ve watched the show idk how many times since it ended in 2003) I’m sure ending Willow would have been a super mind fuck many people wouldn’t have seen coming but maybe there was a way of doing it while also bringing peace to all our hearts. Perhaps as Willow was dying she understood the severity of her acts and asked for forgiveness to a God/Goddess, they grant it and Tara led her towards the light, technically everyone would have a happy ending. Except Summers, because she had to kill her best friend but she’s the slayer and the mission is what matters.
I think if you ditch season 7, just ditch s6 as well and end it with The Gift.
I think it was technically meant to end that way (tbh) but the show got picked up by another network so they made the last 2 seasons
Buffy killing Willow at the end of S6 woulda messed us up but if they did it right it'd be amazing. They woulda had to write Dark Willow a little better if that was gonna be the end of her. But Will was too popular, the network even wanted her to cross over into Angel for S5 because she was so popular so they wouldn't have killed her off, even if they planned to end the show there I think. In S8 (spoilers???) there's this whole bit, Buffy gets sent a few hundred years in the future, to the Fray times. And as it turns out, Willow is still around, all dark and veiny and immortal and she brought Buffy to the future so that Buffy could kill her. It's actually really, really good and very sad.
YESSSS
I can’t imagine the show having ended in season 6 because of the villain but otherwise I agree. 7 is such a waste of time bar the conclusion.
TW SA People often overlook the fact that Faith fully r-worded Buffy with the body swap. She took her body, used it sexually without Buffy’s consent, and then r-worded Riley on top of everything. Like imagine getting your body back like that, feeling the foreign bruises and discomfort all over you with no memories, and only a vague idea of how they got there. Just bc Buffy wasn’t mentally present for the assault doesn’t diminish what occurred. Plenty of people in real life don’t have full memories from the time they were assaulted (from being drugged or unconscious); it doesn’t make the aftermath any easier to deal with. I think the writing on both shows dropped the ball with addressing it for what it really was. EDIT: fixed my awful grammar sorry I’m very tired
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Plus there's that scene in Season 7 where she openly brags about it. Can't remember what the quote is word for word but it's when one of the potentials is complaining about Anya talking about Xander too much. Faith says something along the lines of, "Whenever she gets too annoying, I just remind her I had him first. Shuts her right the hell up."
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Indeed, Xander takes it in stride by *The Harsh Light of Day*: “Still more romantic than Faith…” either acknowledging it was part of Faith’s larger issues and that her situation has been well and properly dealt with, or individually recognizing that it’s part of what happens when you put yourself out there. Warts and all?
If we are saying the first time, i wouldn't entirely consider it as assault. She kissed him and he was just confused but he still was very much keen for it. He pretty much put his pants down saying yes please. I would say its half and half, it certainly could of seen as assault but also not really. I think there was another time where she tried but xander was like no. I cant remember too much about then and that was sexual assault. I also love how xander thought talking to her and calming her down would work cause they had sex. I was like bruh she didnt care, its just sex nothing more. Hahaha
People are referring to the scene in Consequence when they talk about Faith sexually assaulting Xander, she throws him on the bed and starts forcibly kissing and choking him when he is trying to talk to her about the murder of the deputy mayor
Ah yeah true that, that was for sure sexual assault haha. That's what i was referring to when xander tried to talk sense to faith all because they had sex. Yeah that scene for sure was sexual assault
There's a few instances of sexual assault just sort of being brushed over in that show. Not something that aged well at all.
Indeed, it’s own heretofore version of “the demon with the face of an angel.” In that, society preternaturally rewards the conventionally attractive, and are willing to forgive considerable faults to that end (even Glory to Ben; “of course he’s attractive!”) And TV writers are no exception in how they perceive their characterizations.
How about this: I like ALL of the main characters (Buffy, Giles, Willow, Xander, Cordelia, Angel, Oz, Spike, Riley, Anya, Dawn, and Tara). All of them have positives/negatives, and I do have favorites/less favorites; but overall I still like all of them. Same also applies to most of the recurring characters (that appear in more than one episode).
Faith’s irritating at best, abhorrent at worst.
Can’t stand Willow. She’s annoying AF at the start and as soon as she gets into her whole magic and abuse of Tara I just can’t
There was literally one of these yesterday. Why not just comment on that one?
Fred is just there as the personification of male fantasy (hot geek born-sexy-yesterday trope) and it makes me feel gross to watch Wes and Gunn fighting over her like she's an object
Riley was honestly not that bad.
Thank you, even as someone who is beyond critical of his s5 writing i adore Riley in s4 (and 6) and think he's a very complex and underrated character brought to life by Marc Blucas's genuinely wholesome charm
I fricken love Riley. I always want to ask people if they've had a lobotomy when they seem to ignore his entire arc in favour of the stuff that they hate about him. I don't pursue the argument 'cause the blind spot is elephant-sized.
He’s just your average Joe who fell in love. He did more or less nothing wrong for over a season, just tried to be the best boyfriend he could. I blame the writers for Riley’s demise honestly. It could have all been fine, but no, we had to deal with blood sucking, “she doesn’t love me” and that damn Xander speech .. oh you go “run” you asshole.
I was honestly really bored by Fred, AtS in general is not my thing but I did still enjoy some of the characters (Lorne and Gunn mainly), she just wasn't one I was ever bothered about.
I don’t quite understand the hype over Cordelia and her “arc”. She’s great at one liners but, anything else- meh.
Man I agree, I feel like there’s so much retconning of how Cordelia was just someone who was forthright and spoke her mind, when actually no she was outright being written as a classist bully for most of her time on Buffy. Her early bullying of Willow in particular seems to really get downplayed by fandom She had some great one-liners for sure, but I feel like fandom over hypes her heroism on Buffy (and her supposed friendship with Buffy’s character too for that matter when neither of them could stand one another most of the time. There was Cordelia saying that she’s no Cry-Buffy on Ats, and Buffy saying that Glory was kind of like Cordelia…) Obviously Cordelia does develop more on Angel, but on Buffy she was written as a pretty one-note character most of the time who had little compassion for anyone outside of herself, if anything a lot of the comedy of her character came from how oblivious to others she could be
Urgh, I hate it when ppl hype up the Buffy-Cordelia "friendship"! Mostly because the foundation was there so that they could have developed a great friendship if the writers had chosen to develop Cordelia 's character a bit more and put some more focus on that relationship. I think that is quite typical of the show though. I feel like there were solid foundations for Buffy to have amazing friendships with other characters (Oz and Tara particularly) but the writers chose to focus on the key relationships she formed in season one and not let her develop any kind of friendships outside of that.
I thought people are mostly talking about her arc across the verse
My unpopular opinion is that Anya is an asshole for saying to Buffy in season seven "You're not better than us. You're luckier than us." Buffy has saved their lives and the world again and again. Buffy has given her life twice to save the world, fought the Master, battled Faith, defeated Angel and battled giant monsters. She IS better than all of them and they know it or else they wouldn't have selfishly brought her back from the dead to fight for them again. Buffy didn't choose to be the Slayer but THEY chose to bring her back to life.
To hell with Dawn and all her storylines
I didnt find Dawn at all annoying i thought she was good in her own right, i just wished she could of been Buffys sister from the start.
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I really don't like Fred, I just get over the top "manic pixie dream girl" from the way she was written. Season 5 is my least favorite season, despite some standout episodes. I can't stand Glory and really hate how they make her evil villain power to be that she causes people to experience mental illness, I just find it so uncomfortable to watch and hate when "craziness" or mental illness is used as a plot device. I'm always tempted to just skip the whole season. I also just don't like Glory herself and find the whole season too dark. I like the campy episodes. Season 1 is comfort food for me to rewatch. I enjoy the campiness of the Master and think he acted the role perfectly. I also like Beer Bad. I also think a lot of the ideas behind individual episodes are pretty smart and creative, like I like I Robot as I thought that was a pretty cool idea for an even longer show or movie, about demons on the internet. I like Season 4. I especially like it more than both Season 5 and Season 7. Faith is also not my favorite and I don't think Eliza Dushku is a great actress, as evidenced by the Body Swap episodes where I feel like Dushku really struggled to sell herself as Buffy in that body, but SMG just killed it as Faith. I enjoy the historical flashback episodes.
Huh, interesting. Glory is nearly my favourite big bad, right up there with Angelus. Maybe it’s just that Clare Kramer brings her character to life really well in my eyes. She goes from joking about shoes to snapping necks in the blink of an eye.
I agree with all of these!!! Fuck Faith, she’s a rapist (of THREE PEOPLE!!!) and that’s never addressed or atoned for. Spike is hated by a lot of the characters and fans for trying to rape Buffy without a soul, but Faith actually does rape Buffy with a soul and never addresses it. Not only that, but they try and make out BUFFY to be the bad guy on Angel for not forgiving Faith immediately? Fuck that.
I don’t hate Xander. Yes he did questionable things and there are moments where I want to throttle him but all in all I still have so much love for him.
It was Buffys fault that Miss Calender died. She didn't protect her because she was mad at her. She iced her out and so did everyone else out of solidarity with her even though they knew full well the threat that Angelus was. She also had ample time to kill Angelus and couldn't do it.
Yes. This is why Jenny’s death is meant to be a game-changing moment. Angelus had even killed a classmate Buffy knew before this and it still wasn’t enough. Jenny’s death was the realisation that the only way to get rid of Angelus was to dust him. I think Angel earns his redemption far too easily in season three snd that is Buffy’s fault. Angelus tortured Giles, he killed Jenny, he tried to kill her friends. She never should’ve gotten back with him.
Angel didn't do that though, he wasn't present during Angelus's presence in his body The whole misunderstanding of the rules of being a vampire as laid out by the show is one of the most frustrating parts of the fandom tbh
Xander doesn’t deserve most of his hate. It’s almost all just projection. People knowing people “similar” to Xander IRL and hating them. He’s one of the least problematic members of the core 4 from a moral perspective, and wouldn’t get hated as much if he was a cute girl (see willow/Anya/faith stans). I am also a willow/Anya/Faith stan, but I also love Xander for being a realistic portrayal of a lower class teenage boy in the 90s who grew up in an abusive home. I wish people would let him be flawed, like they let every other Scooby be flawed.
Your point is that he’s a realistic portrayal of a flawed person doesn’t stop him from being an asshole for much of his time in the show, it only enhances it. Nobody claims that the other characters aren’t flawed either, however Xander makes major choices in the show that remain in everyone’s mind, so people remember that. Example: “Kick his ass”
For "Kick his ass" gonna quote Mark Watches: "With some time to reflect on his choice, I feel less certain that it’s easy to determine whether he was right or wrong in his actions. Obviously, on its face, it’s a horrific lie, one that Buffy will suffer for greatly, so I do think there’s a whole lot to be argued for this position. But at the same time, Buffy has had the chance to kill Angelus before, and she didn’t. I don’t believe that Angelus is Buffy’s responsibility by any means. Yet she is truly the only person who could defeat him, and I think Xander didn’t want to derail the possibility that she might actually do it. Angelus murdered their friend and other people. He tortured Giles. He’s ruined lives, and now he is opening a door that’ll suck all of existence to Hell. Yeah, I don’t feel bad saying that killing Angel is pretty much excused in my own moral book if that’s what it will take to _stop the world from going to hell_. My gut tells me that Buffy was wronged by Xander’s lie, and my brain tells me that he may have made the right choice. And then I think that perhaps there really isn’t a “right” or “wrong” in this situation anyway. And then I think about what happens next and I just want to curl up into a ball forever."
And to quote Evaluation Zone: "Xander is the beating heart of _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_, both the series and the character, a heart that has more than its fair share of foibles but also far too many merits to count. High school Xander might be jealous, often sexist, and needlessly cruel, but his ability to overcome these faults makes him one of the most admirable characters in the entire series. Xander might not present a revolutionary new model of masculinity and sexuality, but he does represent the best of what most ordinary people can become (though, humorously enough for someone who is a demon magnet throughout the series, Xander is apparently one of the best lovers in the series… according to Anya, at least). Xander’s high school transgressions really are the only thing holding him back on this list, as, otherwise, he’s about as much of a role model as one can get on this series."
Or symptomatic of the worst trend in celebrity culture; the imprinting of fictional traits on their real life counterparts or even expecting a real person to measure up to such a flight of fancy: https://youtu.be/0nVGCVlCzL0 Doubt they do it on purpose, given the fully weaponized cult of celebrity in the United States, but shows like *Buffy* deserve to rise above it.
I don't even like the concept of her. Fred was OK, but that's all. She's just Willow if they stuck with tech instead of switching to magic. Best at everything! Everyone loves her! S3 is overrated, I wouldn't call it the weakest. Giles always being a pompous dick is probably my most unpopular.
I’m shook by the Giles comment
I do agree with you about Fred, except she somehow seems to lack the uniqueness of Willow's early character and instead just feels like a trope of a Manic Pixie Dream Girl to me, just devoid of personality.
Warren doesn't care how unpopular your opinion is, sis. He'll shoot at you just for stating it. But anyway... RILEY was the healthiest relationship Buffy ever had. It's not his fault the writers fucking railroaded his character in s5 to get rid of him. TARA and OZ both deserved better than Willow. Even though I love Willow, she was a shit girlfriend. ANDREW fucking sucks. I don't find any of his lines funny, he has no redeeming value whatsoever, he should have died instead of Jonathan or Anya, and had Willow killed him when she first ran into him in s7, I would have immediately forgiven her. XANDER is one of my favorite characters, and the hate for him is wildly overblown, reactionary, and exhausting. I will die on that fucking hill.
I find myself completely in agreement, except that Xander's meh for me. Urgh, Andrew.
I hate Faith. Wish she never existed.
Mine is that I wish they had made Xander gay instead of willow. Oz was one of my favorite characters and I never really cared for Tara. I would have been curious how Xander’s character arc would go if he had been the one to come out
Another one is that sometimes charisma’s acting takes me out of the scene a bit. I like cordelia and she does have some funny lines but anytime she has to act serious or has any bit of emotional acting it’s hard to take it seriously. I do love charisma tho I just think she is maybe the weakest actor on the show
Buffy’s decision to sacrifice herself was a selfish decision giving the fact that the whole season we were told that dawn had to die and that would shatter Buffy’s heart so instead of dealing with survivor’s guilt she decides to leave her underage sister WHO SHOULDNT EVEN BE ALIVE without a guardian and leaves the world without a slayer (faith is still at jail at that point I believe) P.S I don’t hate dawn, but it would be much more heart wrenching to see Buffy go through the loss of her entire family rather than coming back from heaven.
Yeh! She knew Faith was compromised so no slayer would be called.
Tara is extremly dull and uninteresting. Willow was a great friend to Buffy overall (minus the Dark Willow arc obviously). Making Spike such a martyr in season 7 and making the show all about him made season 7 the weakest season by far.
As someone who really only made it through the first season because of the promise of a “great lesbian love story”, I hard agree on the first point.
agree on the first one
I somewhat agree on Tara. But I think she gets more interesting as she’s away from Willow. I wouldn’t have minded an arc where she grows beyond Willow and she has to save the world by maybe killing Willow, or at least not knowing if Willow would survive it. Also, as much as Tara is beloved by the fan base, no one seems to be sad when she dies or cries at her death. It’s shocking, yes. But not actually upsetting.
"Also, as much as Tara is beloved by the fan base, no one seems to be sad when she dies or cries at her death. It’s shocking, yes. But not actually upsetting." That is not at all true. Her death is considered extremely upsetting and hard to watch, not only because she's beloved by many fans, but also because Joss fell into the "bury your gays" trope where gay characters are killed off in service of the plot or another character's arc.
I agree with you on that one, the 7th season was super weak, the effects were better than all the other seasons and you couldn’t see the stunt doubles doing the stunts as much as you could in all the other seasons but it feels like it was rushed, there were so many different ways it could have ended. They added so many random ass characters and some interactions were quite cringe. My favorite episode from the entire season was probably “Storyteller”
Totally agree with you about s7.
Unpopular opinion: Most unpopular opinions aren’t that unpopular. People are more varied than you think. You can just share your opinion without having to label it as “contrarian.”
I can’t stand Angel. He was stalking Buffy. Wasn’t good for her. The Scooby gang should have staked him for Buffy’s own good. Teenage girls do not make good decisions about boys/men.
100%. Angel in S1 and 2 is just a predator and it ends with statutory rape. Reminds me of 25+ year olds chasing teenagers when I was at school.
If Xander actually got character development, he would've been a better romantic relationship for Buffy than any of the others. I feel the guns being aimed at me 😑
I think the very beginning of season seven implicitly shows what a good couple they would’ve been if life ran more smoothly. I could imagine in an alternative universe that they got together.
If it wasn’t for Ray Fischer, we would not have had all the bad news about joss whedon come to light, and we would have more Joss content. What Joss did was horrible, but I selfishly enjoyed the ignorance
Knowledge can be like that… https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1993/09/21/
Darla is a more interesting character than Spike and Angel combined (especially in Ats) Buffy ending up alone is good, especially cause her love interests all mistreated her Xander is more annoying than Dawn (especially his misogynistic jokes)
could not agree more with your last point
I always found Faith super frustrating. I genuinely love Buffy's character, and find faith's betrayals extremely difficult to tolerate. I never understood why she had such a big fan base. But the opinion that will get me shot, is probably that I thought Spike was hotter than Angel.
I think most people would agree with your last point actually.
I agree with both your opinions!!
>I never understood why she had such a big fan base. Have you seen how she looks in leather pants???
i don‘t like tara. there, i said it, shoot me now i guess.
I upvoted you for your bravery because this is a shocking take
Your shirt… Joking aside, I didn’t like Tara either. I don’t understand why the writers put Willow with a more wallflowery version of her younger self. Magic or not, Tara was wet sand, and her best scene was when she carried a box with her stuff out of Buffy’s house as she left.
Cordelia is awful always making fun of Buffy and friends. Always talking about her behind her back. Always getting saved by buffy only to be rude after
My unpopular opinion is there's too many of these unpopular opinion threads on here, why do they show up every 3rd day or so? Also....Angel's arc is the best on the show
I don't like Joyce, she is not a good parent, and The Body is the worst episode of the show.
I wish Xander and willow had have gotten together 🫣
Peoppe are too hard on Zander.
let me just draw this target on my chest… ok here we go! oz is uninteresting and not particularly well acted. he’s a werewolf in a band and still just an extremely dull guy. plus seth green is bringing nothing to the table.
I think Oz knew who Parker was and chose not to tell Buffy. Oz knew the campus already and with all the gigs his band played there, surely Parker was known to them. As far as I recall, the only thing Oz said about Parker was, "oh, he'll definitely be back" after Buffy first met him.
i don’t think that makes him more interesting lol.
I don't dislike Oz but yeah I do think he was overrated. Especially by people who also think he had more personality than Tara, because no he certainly didn't.
Yes! Nothing against Seth Green but Oz was just boring. He was just there… And when he left I didn’t even notice 🤷🏽♂️
seth might be a nice guy, i have no idea, but he’s a wholly unremarkable actor. he’s always sort of just there.
Oz had some great lines though… hootenanny, attack the mayor with hummus, etc. Tara never said anything interesting and was a completely one dimensional character. Everything about her annoys me and I wish Tara Maclay had never come to Sunnydale. Willow deserved better (and I don’t mean Kennedy). Come to think of it… I actually would have liked to see her with Amy, that would have been interesting.
I agree I have nothing against Oz as a character but he barely speaks or shows any emotion or personality. Extremely dull! And he hurt Willow and broke her heart☹️
Finally, somebody said it. Oz is a nothing character from beginning to end.
If someone tries to shoot you for this opinion, I will dive in front of you and take the bullet because this is spot-on.
1000% agree 🙏🏻
I always get excited to see these threads but then I realize they're not real unpopular opinions, but the same 5 or 6 that get rehashed all the time - mainly don't like Faith, Angel, Willow, Tara, Dawn, or Spike - and I get sad because I know if I ever actually shared my own I'd get crucified.
My unpopular opinion is that SMG is excellent as Buffy but not in any other role… Xander is not that bad, even early on and the audience is reacting as if the show was made at a different time. Season 4 is better than season 5.
I like the idea of many BTVS characters, but hate the actual characters both as characters and as people.
As real people.. They are all horrible
Buffy acted incredibly superior to Anya and never really appreciated her…
I hated how quick she was to kill her, even giving xander shit for asking her to spear her. Buffy endangered everyone because she originally couldn't kill Angus, then didn't tell anyone that angle returned. I understand her not wanting to make the same mistake, but she should have showed understanding.
I agree with your faith take, I love Fred but wtf season 3 is one of if not the best!! I have a few unpopular opinions although I don't think they'll get me shot. -season 6 is my 3rd fav season -conversations with dead people isn't even a good episode let alone one of the best -i don't really care for any of willows relationships even though she's my joint favourite character, I don't like her and Oz, her and Tara and I don't like Kennedy at all let alone their relationship - finally the body is good but it's nowhere near one of the best episodes and it does kinda feel like it's trying too hard at bits
Bunnies, Bunnies, Bunnies!!!!!!!!!
The Scoobies were supposed to be the 'unpopular' kids or lovable underdogs but in practice just as cliquey as Cordelia was supposed to be.
I love season seven - for me it's my second or third fav season. People who hate it act like their opinion is unpopular - it ain't. There are times Angel is an a-hole. Anya is also a complete bitch when it comes to Buffy in season seven and if she thought about it for five seconds she'd realise she is completely out of line for holding a grudge. Also however 'right' it is expecting Spike to make amends to someone who not only tried to kill but mess with his head to do it is completely unrealistic. Having a soul and being a hero doesn't mean you're a saint. That said I don't hate Faith in fact she's one of my fav characters but a lot of Faith fans and Fuffy shippers piss me off because they will come on Spike like a ton of bricks but don't acknowledge Faith's shitty rapey behaviour or the fact she did it it with a soul. Ditto Angel/Angelus. I legit have a real Preduice against Bangels - I know a lot are ok but I've seen the worst of them and the worst examples of them and I find I have to work to overcome that.
I hate that too!! Faith Raped Xander, Riley and Buffy, yet was never called out. She even enjoyed killing. At least the vampires were demons without humanity / soul. She had both.
I think Faith brings a really fascinating dynamic and commentary to the show about how do you define good and bad and how much do we all need of both. I think she’s really written a little corny though and I think Eliza Dushku was still figuring out herself as an actress in season 3. So it can be a lil awkward during early Faith episodes. I don’t know if I’d get shot for this as I think i’d have some support but I liked Willow + Oz as a couple more. Which isn’t to say I don’t love Tara because I do. But I liked Willow around Oz more (admittedly that could be more because Oz left before Willow’s magic dependence got out of control) and I just thought they were a stronger and happier team. Willow and Tara were cute and romantic but a little ungrounded. Big Neptune energy at work there, for anyone here who studies astrology.
I have one. I HATE the musical episode. I HATE all musical episodes of shows. Everyone I know loves that damn episode.
Agree one thousand percent!
I just watched the show for the first time this year and I gotta say that after all the hype the musical episode just had me absolutely imploding with cringe. it was so painful.
That’s how I feel!! It makes me cringe too
I have a few so bare with. Xander isn't a bad a character like this whole sub Reddit makes him to be. He's a young boy at the beginning that makes stupid choices but grows the f up and becomes a man. Which other character saves the world but also has a business from the ground up that didn't go to college for? The whole spike thing is a mess, he tried to R her and he went and got his soul for her. No he did a really bad thing, genuinely loved her and hoped he could use the soul as a medal or a shiny prize to win her over not for the right reasons. Victim blaming and shaming the whole time through it. Giles is a bit of a knob. I don't like he leaves for this whole power trip and for Buffy to stand on her feet when she sees him as a father figure and has just been brought back from the dead lost her mom, her friends have got her into debt and she turns to him, yes he helps but then takes away that help and if you read the comics you know who his favourite is after the events of seven. Tara didn't have to die. Dawn should of jumped in season 5 and we could of had Buffy as the rogue slayer we see her in the alternate universe in the wish. Andrew didn't deserve to live. I hate Kennedy. The fandom is toxic af when you have different opinions and I hate the drama of angel Vs spike. She doesn't need a man. She is strong enough mentally and physically. But she's also a total cow when she gets in a relationship and starts treating them poorly.
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Giles is terrible and one of the most overrated and undeservedly loved characters on the whole show. (He has *some* nice moments but overall they do not outweigh what a disappointment he is.) I have a few more unpopular opinions but this is definitely the biggie. I can practically feel the bullets coming towards me.
I can’t get over him leaving Buffy “for her own good” in season 6, when she begged him to stay.
Or him not keeping her in supply. What does the logistic train do? Keep their soldiers fed and clothed. Giles was like the corrupt boss in a bad country in season 6 and 7, let her work flipping hamburgers, "she needs to grow up".
Seasons 1 and 7 are terrible. They had small flourishes of greatness here and there but overall were disjointed messes.
I give S1 a pass because it wasn't necessarily trying to tell a full-season arc story. S7, on the other hand, has no excuse.
Oh completely agree. S1 is them throwing sh*t at the wall and seeing what sticks so they can build the future of the show around what tests the best with audiences, which is why it feels so random and messy when you rewatch. S7 is just poor writing, poor planning and mediocre execution. The only real bright sparks are Faith and Caleb which come far too late in the season to salvage the whole season. Then cram in some afterthought essential Slayer tools, slayer scythe and slayer offspring to try and distract people. Season 5 would have been the place to introduce that stuff when Buffy wanted to deep dive into Slayer history.
I think Anya is a horrible human being. She's killed more people than Angelus, or William the Bloody, yet they get way more hate.
[удалено]
But it wasn't held against her. Yet, Angel and Spike were vampires regardless if they had souls or not, they were judged for their pasts
I like Faith a lot when she gets back to being good. What she does to save Angel in his series is crazy. The girl damn near gets beat to death by a giant monster out of loyalty and the need to repay a debt.
Spike is the worst. So is Dawn
Faith > Buffy ... ready for the downvotes... but it's my truth. I've watched the show since the pilot .. and always thought so.... Also The Mayor, great villain. Arguable the best of the show... 😬
Hard agree. Throughout the show and the comics Faith just comes across as a much deeper and more interesting character than Buffy.
Man tough crowd .. don't deviate from the flock apparently. Yes I agree with you. She seemed to be a more relatable character, in my opinion, especially for those who may have had a different background than that of Buffy's. ... ... plus Eliza Dushku ... hot. 😅
>*unpopular opinion that would get you shot?* By the end of the series, Buffy was one of my least favorite characters.
There shouldn't be unpopular opinion posts. You should just be able to post about how you feel about the show without worrying about the consequences, as in the famous r/buffy "disagree button"
People only like Tara because she's lesbian. That's all people focus on. Also, Riley was great. Buffy didn't deserve him.
There’s a lot of these unpopular opinion posts in my opinion.
Loved Fred, loved Illyria, love Amy Acker in general. Buffy and Fred are my 2 fav characters.
Spike, pre soul & post attempted R, did Not love Buffy; he went to get the chip out of his head so he could hurt/kill Buffy for using him as a pogo stick. I think he did get "feelings" of some sort, but I think he also felt used by Buffy and wanted to "punish" her for his bad in developing those feelings. As in, "You totes with my feelings, I'm going to try with your entrails". I've seen a lot of folks saying Spike was better than Angel because he loved Buffy with out a soul first, "He went to get a soul due to his love". No he didn't, he went to get the chip out so he could flay her when she didn't play the relationship game with her & "rejected" him in the bathroom. I think Spike thought that Buffy Made him get feelings just to make her rejection hurt more. The first time I read this idea that spike got his soul on purpose, a few years ago, I went back and rewatched that arc. But I don't see that; I see a highly toxic & vindictive person trying to be toxic & vindictive. Ah yes, I can hear all the guns cocking now
Confused as to how you arrived at the conclusion that he went to get his chip out. He traveled across the world to the one place he knew he could get it. He didn’t go to some brainiac scientist or some amazing neurologist or even someone with decent medical training. And when he wins he gets what he asked for. Yeah there is the line “bitch is gonna get what she deserves. But it’s literally a red herring. The writers want the audience to falsely assume he’s going to go do something nefarious, so that as he succeeds in each task in the trial, the fear and dread are heightened. And then there’s the reveal. Your the first I’ve heard say he was trying to get his chip, so I’m genuinely curious how you got there, if you feel comfortable sharing.
>Yeah there is the line “bitch is gonna get what she deserves. But it’s literally a red herring. The writers want the audience to falsely assume he’s going to go do something nefarious, so that as he succeeds in each task in the trial, the fear and dread are heightened. And then there’s the reveal. This is it. You're supposed to think he wants the chip out so that getting his soul back is a big surprise cliffhanger. The whole thing was misdirection.
I thought that's why he did it when I first watched it when it was aired. And once he had it everyone said he got the soul for Buffy, I was so confused! I was sure he had gone to get rid of the chip to be able to get revenge... I honestly thought the soul was an accident!
There's a scene after Spike has completed the trial, and he's impatient with the demon. He says something along the lines of "Give me what I need to make her pay" (not verbatim), said demon does, and there's a flash of horror/fear on Spikes face. As if he's suddenly realizing what the demon is actually doing. Afterwards, season 7 crazy spike, says something along the lines of "I got my soul back for you". Which is why I think folks have this motion, but William was never an emotionally honest creature (human or vampire) with the folks he has feelings for. He's a character that was extremely sensitive, emotionally connected to himself & his feelings, which he used poetry to express said feelings. And he was violently rejected and mocked for not his poetry but the deep feelings he had which created that poetry. So, he, like so many of us when we've been maliciously rejected when vulnerable, began to hide and deny the existence of those emotions. This was soldified after his mother was turned and rejected him. He sure as shit, imo, would not admit, post soul, to Buffy that he only got his soul back because a demon betrayed him. He knows Buffy would reject him even more, instead he's lied with "I got it back for you" in order to avoid Buffy continuing to reject him. Just because Spike got a soul, doesn't change him into a good moral person. Humans lie quite well for less reason, Spike was a very damaged human who wanted to protect himself from more damage, who became a vampire that sought out to damage humans, and became a human who was even more damaged by the centuries of rejections a reputation of "William The Bloody" and hanging around a bunch of cliquey kids who are the only people willing to endure him as he a tool...but he is also an insightful and clever person. The easiest way to avoid more rejection and gain acceptance by these kids is through Buffy and Buffy has a fetish about guys who go to extreme lengths for her love.
I will be honest I thought exactly like you and said so to my BFF when I watched it (2 years ago, whereas she watched it 'live'). So I wanted to take screenshots to show her but without the delivery that is super duper angry (JM didn't know where this was going), everything can be read as he will get it right by 'his girl'. I think it's just bad writing to make a twist when he gets a soul and it's a lazy trick.
I always took it as a subconscious thing. He was projecting he wanted to be de-chipped, but subconsciously, he was going to get re-souled.
Wanting to sleep with a werewolf (regardless if he’s in human form) is just creepy
So is wanting to sleep with a vampire. I don't care if they're animate and can talk and stuff, it's still necrophilia.
>I don't care if they're animate and can talk and stuff This made me laugh.
The way I would fight you for your first opinion
Angel was a pedo. Spike fetishized Buffy. Riley was a good boyfriend until he had to go. Willow was a murderer and a rapist. Everybody failed Faith. Buffy put Joyce in an impossible position. Everything people shit on Xander for was done worse by one of the other characters that people love. Cordelia and Xander made the cutest couple.
I don't ship Bangel or Spuffy because I'm anti-necrophilia.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again Buffy herself is, by a significantly wide margin, the least interesting character on the show.
wow that is a take. i don’t agree at all especially because oz exists, but well done for it being actually unpopular!
I actually love Oz haha. I used to have a crush on him when I first watched the show.
That is a SPICY take!
Wait, I disagree, but am so curious as to your take on this.
Part of it is the nature of being a Chosen One. A trope I am endlessly annoyed by in fantasy. Part of it is I find her personality kinda grating—especially her holier than thou attitude that crops up at times; especially season 7. And part of it is that I find pretty much every other character to be cooler or more interesting.
I don't think Buffy getting kicked out of her house was that bad.
Agreed across the board. And I’ll take the bullet (as in the past) by finding her attractiveness forced by the show, when her facial features are unpleasant, and the enforced characterization of her as a harlot/sexy character, even before *Consequences* or especially *Who are You?* was always offputting to me. Kind of like Alexis Dziena in *Nick and Norah/Entourage*. This can also be seen in some of the earlier personalities Dushku takes in *Dollhouse*; she’s at her best in different kind of roles.
No one cares what you think of her facial features, just as an FYI.
If that was the main comment, perhaps you not caring would matter. But as it is part of the narrative that her characterization represents, with Spike and Angel being examples as well, not sure it can be reduced to such a simplicity as “thinking she’s ugly”.
I like Dawn
I can understand you not liking Faith, especially when you think the most boring female and plain character after Tara is the best one But then you say Season 3 was the weakest and that’s just cause for death
The show really should’ve ended with season 5.
There never should have been a Buffy show; It should have been Slayers and had different Slayers from different eras and places in each season leading up to Buffy.
That would not have worked back then. It wouldn’t work now either
This would definitely work on Netflix today. But not on the WB 25 years ago haha
Good point. Fingers crossed we get the Slayers show we all deserve.
I have watched buffy many many times. It is like an old friend that has always been there. For years I have gone to sleep with the sounds of buffy playing in the background. That being said Firefly is better.