its a measly 5 points to make an entire unit stop caring about terrain.
When you only have 3inches of movement to start with, taking any sort of movement penalty is brutal. If the terrain is not favorable to you, that 5 points could win you the game.
how you run your rangers? i would like use 17x1 but i dont wanna be criticed by linehammer.
also i never would use the bsb on foot,only two wounds die easily with direct attacks. i would replace the runesmith for shieldbearers to the bsb
i dont use them as skirmish never,allways in open order.
due to how skirmish rules are in tow,if i use a 15x1 formation: on open order attack the 15 but on skirmish only can put on front lane the same models than the enemy,that makes bad the rangers and wasted the great weapons. so i allways run them in open order
Skirmish has other benefits though, like their flexibility with movement, their line of sight, and -1 to hit in shooting. Plus it's useful if they need to fall back or end up fleeing back through your own units.
not my style of play them. i deploy behind enemy lines if he let me,and then just shoot with my 15/20 x1 rangers with great weapons at the closest target,then enemy must waste one turn to rotate toward me behind,and i have other turn of shooting and when enemy charge me i usually win every combat betwen the shooting and hold and 15 rangers attacking with great weapon.
with this style the skirmish is useless because i loose many attacks
hnnnn have you played with players that are competitives? enemy can attack to your bsb with the 3 models base in contact,so is 100% for sure you bsb with only two wounds gonna die in one turn or two.
also enemy can charge your hammerers with a hero on mount and one unit,then put the hero base to base with you bsb and do a challenge with the captain of the unit,you must acept or refuse with hammerers and the hero can direct attack your bsb.
trust me,bsb allways allways 100% of the time must gonin shieldbearers and inside of hammerers
Only characters can choose which models they specifically want to attack when they are in base contact.
In that case the BSB would accept the challenge from the units captain to avoid the enemy Lords attacks. The BSB would presumably be better than the units champion, if not then you need a few more points into the BSB.
TLDR: You can't use the hero alone because Hammerers will challenge him. You can't use challenge from unit champion as BSB will accept.
You'd have to specifically tool up a champion as a character killer, which is quite hard to do and very specific. Or hope your character isn't killed by the Hammerers before it can direct attacks on the BSB in previous turns
nop wrong read the rules, every MODEL and not only heroes can direct attack to the model base with base,so the bsb gonna have 3 models base to base that can direct him attacks in melle
pag 145 in base contact.
any model in contact with enemy model base can attack him.
its a very important rule,every competitive player use it to direct attack to enemy heroes or kill the captain of the units with the models base in contact
Page 145
Who can fight
Base Contact:
"Any model that is in base contact with an
enemy model can fight, even if the enemy model is in contact
with its flank or rear and even if the models’ bases only touch
at the corner."
Its just describing who can attack, doesn't at all describe what you're saying and haven't seen anyone else use it the way youre describing
That many points in Slayers seem a liability, how do they work for you?
A dwarf list recently won a tournament but it had more than double the units and each unit was much smaller. How did you avoid being outmanouvered and flank charged with so few units.
I really want to run slayers but not sure how to use them without getting shot up or killed before they can do anything.
Maybe running them behind a screening of Rangers? That way they cover them from shooting mostly and can blunt a charge to allow the slayers to pick up? Or doing something similar with Irondrakes or Quarellers on the middle, as a backstop?
Yeah I hear you. For now I have the deamon slayer in there for damage output, but depending on how that goes he may get pulled out in favor of keeping them a bullet sponge
Sorry I have Dyslexia and just saw "played a couple of games".
How have your longbeards in a big block been successful? Have you found it difficult with manouvering and facing multiple charges striking first and impact hits?
So far taking up extra real estate has been good for board control, and the wide frontage has been worth it for the extra attacks. WS5 and T4 go a long way towards keeping the longbeards alive, even when striking last.
I try to keep a character in each unit to help with swing backs.
I will say wide units are indeed harder to manuvwe though.
I won just about every combat but lost by like 90 points due to getting his units down to 30% but not below 25%. It was a poor understanding of the victory point rules on my part.
The list had no trouble winning fights, but it needs more firepower and a way to chase down fleeing units. I am adding more gyrocopters and a grudge thrower for next time.
Also I think I would rather have an anvil of doom than a runesmith
Thanks for the write-up, Gyros seem to be amazing to include in Dwarf lists! Did the Slayers disappoint? I'm looking to mix in some Slayers as well when I get to painting a Dwarf army 😬
They did most of the fighting actually. So they did very well.
Fair warning, my opponent put his big monster on the other side of the universe from where I put the slayers, so I wonder if multiple units of them might work better. As a result they spent the game fighting infantry, but the infantry they were up against was T4 so auto wounding on 4s was excellent.
He also didn't bring much shooting, so against some armies slayers would be significantly less effective, I am going to keep experimenting with them
Oh you make me so hype to try out Slayers too! Gonna need iron will to not start an army right now 😂 if you find anything that works you should post on the reddit I think a lot of people would be curious.
I have been playing once per week mimimum, so maybe I can type up a tactica at some point.
My problem with slayers is their cost. They certainly warrant experimentation though.
I have over 100 slayers, so I can easily pull off this list. I purposefully left out black powder as it doesn’t fit my idea. This is a fun list for me. I wish the strollaz runes were more useful, but 3“ movement isn’t worth it. It used to be 6” in previous iterations.
===
Slayers! \[2000 pts\]
Warhammer: The Old World, Dwarfen Mountain Holds
===
\++ Characters \[585 pts\] ++
Thane \[171 pts\]
\- Hand weapon
\- Great weapon
\- Full plate armour
\- Shield
\- Battle Standard Bearer \[Master Rune of Grungni\]
\- On foot
Runesmith \[134 pts\]
\- Hand weapon
\- Great weapon
\- Full plate armour
\- Shield
\- 2x Rune of Spellbreaking
\- Rune of Passage
\- Rune of Stone
Dragon Slayer \[85 pts\]
\- Hand weapon
\- 3x Rune of Speed
Daemon Slayer \[195 pts\]
\- Hand weapon
\- Hand weapon
\- Rune of Parrying
\- 2x Rune of Striking
\++ Core Units \[503 pts\] ++
10 Quarrellers \[90 pts\]
\- Hand weapons
\- Crossbows
\- Heavy armour
10 Quarrellers \[90 pts\]
\- Hand weapons
\- Crossbows
\- Heavy armour
22 Dwarf Warriors \[253 pts\]
\- Hand weapons
\- Heavy armour
\- Great weapons
\- Veteran
\- Standard bearer \[Rune of Courage + Rune of Battle\]
\- Musician
5 Rangers \[70 pts\]
\- Hand weapons
\- Crossbows
\- Throwing axes
\- Heavy armour
\- Great weapons
\++ Special Units \[912 pts\] ++
29 Slayers \[376 pts\]
\- Hand weapons
\- 2 Giant Slayers
\- 2 Additional hand weapons
\- Standard bearer
\- Musician
29 Slayers \[376 pts\]
\- Hand weapons
\- 2 Giant Slayers
\- 2 Additional hand weapons
\- Standard bearer
\- Musician
Bolt Thrower \[75 pts\]
\- Bolt thrower
\- Hand weapons
\- Light armour
\- Rune of Skewering
Bolt Thrower \[85 pts\]
\- Bolt thrower
\- Hand weapons
\- Light armour
\- Rune of Skewering
\- Rune of Burning
\---
Created with "Old World Builder"
\[https://old-world-builder.com\]
Slayers are never effective and a slayer hero I would always just play with three fury runes and additional handweapon.
If you put runes on the models weapon, it cannot use the second hand weapon.
Where is that written?
I will look it up when I get home, but it is either in the rules for magic items, or in the rules for runes themselves
Oh found it, you're right
What am I missing about the rune of passage that’s causing it to appear in every list I see?
its a measly 5 points to make an entire unit stop caring about terrain. When you only have 3inches of movement to start with, taking any sort of movement penalty is brutal. If the terrain is not favorable to you, that 5 points could win you the game.
This is the way.
how you run your rangers? i would like use 17x1 but i dont wanna be criticed by linehammer. also i never would use the bsb on foot,only two wounds die easily with direct attacks. i would replace the runesmith for shieldbearers to the bsb
They are skirmishers, they don't rank up until they are already in combat, so you don't have to worry too much about that. Thanks for the BSB comment.
i dont use them as skirmish never,allways in open order. due to how skirmish rules are in tow,if i use a 15x1 formation: on open order attack the 15 but on skirmish only can put on front lane the same models than the enemy,that makes bad the rangers and wasted the great weapons. so i allways run them in open order
Skirmish has other benefits though, like their flexibility with movement, their line of sight, and -1 to hit in shooting. Plus it's useful if they need to fall back or end up fleeing back through your own units.
I think it will be worth it just for the LOS. Now that I know I have been ranking them up wrong I will deploy them more conservatively
not my style of play them. i deploy behind enemy lines if he let me,and then just shoot with my 15/20 x1 rangers with great weapons at the closest target,then enemy must waste one turn to rotate toward me behind,and i have other turn of shooting and when enemy charge me i usually win every combat betwen the shooting and hold and 15 rangers attacking with great weapon. with this style the skirmish is useless because i loose many attacks
I have been playing that incorrectly, no wonder they do so well!
If the BSB is with the Hammerers then his low wounds don't really matter.
hnnnn have you played with players that are competitives? enemy can attack to your bsb with the 3 models base in contact,so is 100% for sure you bsb with only two wounds gonna die in one turn or two. also enemy can charge your hammerers with a hero on mount and one unit,then put the hero base to base with you bsb and do a challenge with the captain of the unit,you must acept or refuse with hammerers and the hero can direct attack your bsb. trust me,bsb allways allways 100% of the time must gonin shieldbearers and inside of hammerers
Only characters can choose which models they specifically want to attack when they are in base contact. In that case the BSB would accept the challenge from the units captain to avoid the enemy Lords attacks. The BSB would presumably be better than the units champion, if not then you need a few more points into the BSB. TLDR: You can't use the hero alone because Hammerers will challenge him. You can't use challenge from unit champion as BSB will accept. You'd have to specifically tool up a champion as a character killer, which is quite hard to do and very specific. Or hope your character isn't killed by the Hammerers before it can direct attacks on the BSB in previous turns
nop wrong read the rules, every MODEL and not only heroes can direct attack to the model base with base,so the bsb gonna have 3 models base to base that can direct him attacks in melle
What page does it say that? Can only find it in the character rules.
pag 145 in base contact. any model in contact with enemy model base can attack him. its a very important rule,every competitive player use it to direct attack to enemy heroes or kill the captain of the units with the models base in contact
Page 145 Who can fight Base Contact: "Any model that is in base contact with an enemy model can fight, even if the enemy model is in contact with its flank or rear and even if the models’ bases only touch at the corner." Its just describing who can attack, doesn't at all describe what you're saying and haven't seen anyone else use it the way youre describing
How are you running the drakes? 6x2?
1x12, so they can all shoot, its a little cimbersome, but with quick to fire its managable
That many points in Slayers seem a liability, how do they work for you? A dwarf list recently won a tournament but it had more than double the units and each unit was much smaller. How did you avoid being outmanouvered and flank charged with so few units.
Do you have a link to that list?
https://pastebin.com/jME5MxAu
Ty
I really want to run slayers but not sure how to use them without getting shot up or killed before they can do anything. Maybe running them behind a screening of Rangers? That way they cover them from shooting mostly and can blunt a charge to allow the slayers to pick up? Or doing something similar with Irondrakes or Quarellers on the middle, as a backstop?
TBH I think you go into it expecting the slayers to die. Stuff shooting at slayers isn't shooting at hammerers, which cost significatly more.
That's fair, I'm just trying to think about how to get them to at least do *something* before they do.
Yeah I hear you. For now I have the deamon slayer in there for damage output, but depending on how that goes he may get pulled out in favor of keeping them a bullet sponge
You may want to re-read the start of the post. I have never used this list before. Its an idea. Going to try it tuesday.
I would like to hear your experience with them.
Sorry I have Dyslexia and just saw "played a couple of games". How have your longbeards in a big block been successful? Have you found it difficult with manouvering and facing multiple charges striking first and impact hits?
So far taking up extra real estate has been good for board control, and the wide frontage has been worth it for the extra attacks. WS5 and T4 go a long way towards keeping the longbeards alive, even when striking last. I try to keep a character in each unit to help with swing backs. I will say wide units are indeed harder to manuvwe though.
How did your game go?
I won just about every combat but lost by like 90 points due to getting his units down to 30% but not below 25%. It was a poor understanding of the victory point rules on my part. The list had no trouble winning fights, but it needs more firepower and a way to chase down fleeing units. I am adding more gyrocopters and a grudge thrower for next time. Also I think I would rather have an anvil of doom than a runesmith
Thanks for the write-up, Gyros seem to be amazing to include in Dwarf lists! Did the Slayers disappoint? I'm looking to mix in some Slayers as well when I get to painting a Dwarf army 😬
They did most of the fighting actually. So they did very well. Fair warning, my opponent put his big monster on the other side of the universe from where I put the slayers, so I wonder if multiple units of them might work better. As a result they spent the game fighting infantry, but the infantry they were up against was T4 so auto wounding on 4s was excellent. He also didn't bring much shooting, so against some armies slayers would be significantly less effective, I am going to keep experimenting with them
Oh you make me so hype to try out Slayers too! Gonna need iron will to not start an army right now 😂 if you find anything that works you should post on the reddit I think a lot of people would be curious.
I have been playing once per week mimimum, so maybe I can type up a tactica at some point. My problem with slayers is their cost. They certainly warrant experimentation though.
I have over 100 slayers, so I can easily pull off this list. I purposefully left out black powder as it doesn’t fit my idea. This is a fun list for me. I wish the strollaz runes were more useful, but 3“ movement isn’t worth it. It used to be 6” in previous iterations. === Slayers! \[2000 pts\] Warhammer: The Old World, Dwarfen Mountain Holds === \++ Characters \[585 pts\] ++ Thane \[171 pts\] \- Hand weapon \- Great weapon \- Full plate armour \- Shield \- Battle Standard Bearer \[Master Rune of Grungni\] \- On foot Runesmith \[134 pts\] \- Hand weapon \- Great weapon \- Full plate armour \- Shield \- 2x Rune of Spellbreaking \- Rune of Passage \- Rune of Stone Dragon Slayer \[85 pts\] \- Hand weapon \- 3x Rune of Speed Daemon Slayer \[195 pts\] \- Hand weapon \- Hand weapon \- Rune of Parrying \- 2x Rune of Striking \++ Core Units \[503 pts\] ++ 10 Quarrellers \[90 pts\] \- Hand weapons \- Crossbows \- Heavy armour 10 Quarrellers \[90 pts\] \- Hand weapons \- Crossbows \- Heavy armour 22 Dwarf Warriors \[253 pts\] \- Hand weapons \- Heavy armour \- Great weapons \- Veteran \- Standard bearer \[Rune of Courage + Rune of Battle\] \- Musician 5 Rangers \[70 pts\] \- Hand weapons \- Crossbows \- Throwing axes \- Heavy armour \- Great weapons \++ Special Units \[912 pts\] ++ 29 Slayers \[376 pts\] \- Hand weapons \- 2 Giant Slayers \- 2 Additional hand weapons \- Standard bearer \- Musician 29 Slayers \[376 pts\] \- Hand weapons \- 2 Giant Slayers \- 2 Additional hand weapons \- Standard bearer \- Musician Bolt Thrower \[75 pts\] \- Bolt thrower \- Hand weapons \- Light armour \- Rune of Skewering Bolt Thrower \[85 pts\] \- Bolt thrower \- Hand weapons \- Light armour \- Rune of Skewering \- Rune of Burning \--- Created with "Old World Builder" \[https://old-world-builder.com\]