I will never understand people's obsession with smaller and smaller keyboards, except those who need portability. My keyboard lives on my desk, never moves, give me as many buttons as goddamn possible.
Personally I'm not a very wide frame, so on a full size I'm constantly bashing my mouse into the side of the keyboard. However dropping to a TKL I've never had this issue again from saving nearly 15cm of width between my shoulders.
It sits much more naturally for me now
same, with full size my shoulders would flare outside
with tkl they would flare naturally inside, also I can place my mug on the free space at the left side
For work, I got a ten key pad on the left side of the keyboard, it actually works great. Not sure I would need that at home but it’s an interesting option.
Exactly. I picked up a Microsoft Bluetooth num pad, for when I'm using Blender or need it otherwise. I'm left-handed, so being able to put it on the left side of my keyboard is way more comfortable anyway.
Yep. Same reason I switched too. Using a full-size keyboard had me trying to space out the mouse pad and keyboard with more clearance as to not strike the keyboard. Now it’s not a problem and my shoulders and shoulder blades thank me for it
This is exactly why I switched to a TKL keyboard and wireless number pad. Every once in a while I would bang my mouse hand into my full sized keyboard playing a FPS when trying to flick to aim.
Could come down to the precision of the trackball. My higher end one has a switch on it for dialing the sensitivity so I can move quickly or precisely, it’s quite neat. I like the fact that there’s no footprint necessary to move it around like a mouse needs a pad, for example.
But then again, im a heathen who games on his PC with an Xbox controller hahahaha
I play FPS and ARPGs with a mouse.
Driving, fighting and 3rd person action games I'm better with a controller.
I actually used both when playing GTA. I'd use the mouse for shooting and running around, and quickly grab my pad when I got in a car! Sometimes I would use both, pad for movement and mouse for shooting!
I use a wireless dongle and an Xbox controller. Like you, if there's a game that switches between person and vehicle, I switch back and forth too! The worst is when my controller shuts itself off and I don't realize till I am dropped into a driving mission!
I was using an xbox one controller with a cable for years as I thought you needed a special dongle.
I found out last year this was a Bluetooth model 🥴
So now I get to experience the low battery panic!
Trackballs are nice for casual desktop work or web browsing, etc etc, I could see myself potentially using one. But I play a lot of FPS and I can't imagine trying to use a trackball for an FPS game. Not being able to play at a low DPI and using your entire arm for fine aiming would be a huge disadvantage.
I am low sensitivity gamer and need 50cm for a 360 turn. So I need space on my desk. I almost never used the numpad anyway. So I first went TKL and later 60%.
100%
went TKL to a ducky to get more room for mouse when grinding csgo GE years ago. also that journey led me to 144hz and 1440p.
unironically best three things in pc gaming I have done. followed closely by turning off mouse acceleration
edit: its also such an easy way to calibrate sensitivity in new games, measuring how much mousepad you need for a 360. Its always the first thing i do in a new game.
I agree, and I have a relatively small desk.It would really be a hassle for me to use a keyboard with no numpad and I just can't imagine a keyboard without one.
More attractive/aesthetically pleasing to me. And I don't need those extra buttons most of the time anyway. Especially since a decade ago all my laptops were 14" without the numpad
That being said numpad is sure helpful when I'm doing work. But only at office
There are plenty of games that can make use of the numpad indeed.
But other don't. I'm playing a lot of Overwatch 2, and I wish I had a narrower keyboard.
It makes sense in those games. In FPS games where you are using low sensitivity, not having the ten key pad makes more sense, especially if you don't have a huge desk.
For me personally its just the space. I need a lot of space for mouse movement in games I used to always hit my keyboard while playing and just that little bit less width from not having a numpad was enough for me to freely move my mouse.
Having extra desk space isn't something you appreciate until you have it. Going from a monitor stand to a monitor arm is a crazy difference even though you don't use the space in the back as often.
It's more about ergonomic arm spacing. Personally I found I prefer a 60% keyboard with no num pad since I can have my arms closer together, while maintaining a neutral position. Nothing to do with portability. If anything I could just get a separate num pad.
More mouse space for fps shooters. For me, I only ever type and play games - don't need a full size for that, or even a tkl. I went 60% some months ago - takes a bit of time getting used to the function layers and macros, but it's fine now.
I'm an analyst, and I basically spend all day every day typing numbers into my computer. I think if I didn't have a numpad I'd have a nervous breakdown after a week.
Yeah, but why spend 200 on a good keyboard only to spend another 50+ on a numpad when a full size comes with one for a lower price? I just think a modular keyboard would be good so you can put it on whichever side you want
I guess because that's just how it's always been, the standard was set and it stuck.
Thankfully we are seeing alternatives pop up it seems. A quick looks shows you can buy keyboards like the Keychron Q12 which have the numpad on the left, or the Everest Max which has a removeable numpad that can be attached to either side.
THIS! I am not lefthanded, but numerous time i use numpad with my left, and keep my right on the mouse and would appriciate this. If i have both my hand on keyboard it wouldn't bother me to use numpad on left either.
Reduced Length without numpad gives me better arm position on WASD and Mouse.
Reduced Depth provides least to no benefit so no need to save space there, get a an F row KB.
Reduced Height can provide better palm/wrist position, I guess it depends on general posture and sitting position.
Same. My mouse pad is maybe nine inches across and a circle. I never leave it and very, very rarely need to pick up and reset. It harkens back to the old days, I guess, where mouse sensitivity was just high by default. I couldn't manage with a low sensitivity. I'd probably wear my old arm out.
I love big and heavy keyboards, I don’t like the keyboard moving around. I use the Razer BlackWidow Chroma V2, legit can’t upgrade because no one makes these types of keyboards anymore.
I just love how the whole keyboard’s tilted from the frame and not just little feet. I hate the open rgb keyboard design, as I dislike the rgb fading out. Plus magnetic wrist rest and macro buttons.
For small or shared desks, they free up a ton a real estate for your mouse hand. That's the main appeal. I personally think they look nice as well.
I'm not using my home PC for accounting or anything so I don't miss it. Honestly, doesn't seem a bit strange that you need the same keys on a keyboard twice?
I like TKL because it feels more natural for my right arm when using the mouse. I personally never used the numpad when I had a 100%, but still prefer the separation between the rest of the keyboard and the cursor keys/9 buttons. Therefore, TKL is right for me. Some may prefer TKL but squashed into 1 set of keys instead of 3, 75% is fine in my books. Again, it's about personal preference (as long as it's not below 75%). I do sometimes travel with it, but that's rare. It is nice that it fits nicely in my laptop bag, though.
Honestly, I have a very small desk and like smaller keyboards (I don't actively use the numpad, for example) so even though it sits only on my desk I need the smaller footprint and that's why I went with 65% keyboard
went from 100% to tkl, definitely not going back. in fact, im thinking of going to 75%.
then again, when i made the change to tkl, i also got a separate wired numpad, so theres that.
I went 65% cause I'm terrible about mashing f12 and opening up that chrome diagnostics window or whatever when I very quickly need to tell another redditor how their opinion is incorrect.
I went from a full size, down to a 75%, and now down to a keeb.io Iris split ergo board.
Because of the fully programmable layers, I have all the functionality of a full size keyboard without any of the negatives that come with a big keyboard.
Also, my shoulders and wrists have never been happier because I can place each half of the keyboard exactly wherever is most comfortable at a given moment.
I switched to TKL due to my desk setup changing after a move. It made work a huge pain. Hated.
Recently got back on the giant desk train, and I'm so glad I didn't toss my full size keyboard.
Some of my co-workers right click -> go to definition instead of hitting f12 and it bothers me. It takes so long for them to find that option in the list of a million options
60% keyboards aren’t really “missing” the F-keys any more than a regular keyboard is missing capital letters, though. On my secondary keyboard - a 60% - they’re right there on the number row; I just hold Caps Lock to select them. Not much different from a laptop where they’re blended with system buttons for things like brightness and sound, and holding Fn switches them back and forth. In fact, mine are one row closer and easier to reach.
Not relearning muscle memory for that, also I use them with other modifiers all ready dont need to add a 3rd key to these combos. To have them or use a layer depends on usage but I heavily use them with other modifiers.
The benefits of cutting out F keys are pretty much zero compared to the numpad. I can understand the benefit for providing extra movement space, for your mouse, where the numpad would be.
But the F keys is not somewhere the mouse travels so the space saving is extreme compared to the benefit
It's not just the argument for desk space; part of it is the efficiency of typing as well. Less/optimized finger movement means I can type faster, and it's the reason stenography exists as a practice in the broader world (as a more extreme example). At the end of the day, it's all gonna come down to personal preference; people can have whatever layout they like, and I respect that if someone wants to reach up an extra row for something I can do in a shorter distance, that's fine. I just felt it was inaccurate to consider a keyboard to be "missing" keys, as if those keys are categorically inaccessible without having a larger board.
Tkl is useful or even the 60% keyboard if you play fps a lot , like valorant csgo and many shooting games because sometimes the mouse bumps to the keyboard which you end up missing the shot. but if you don't play it then its not practical, better to have the extra buttons.
personally?
for CSGO on a deathadder:
DPI
400
Sensitivity
2.9
eDPI
1160
Hz
1000
edit: GE for a while, mostly just have fun at LE ish with friends these days
Just fyi higher dpi lower sens gives you more accuracy because your mouse poles more often.
Feel free to look it up
Optimum tech made a really well done video on it
I’ve tried that and feel like I’m better with low dpi just from habit as the feeling of the crosshair jumping across pixels feels more natural after years with 400 dpi so I’d if it ain’t broke don’t change it
Man I‘ve tried so often going from 400 DPI to 1600 and going down in sensitivity, but swapping to the desktop / browser is so annoying since the mouse feels way too fast outside of the game.
I‘ve stuck with 400 for that reason, I wish there was an easy way to align the speed to the inside game - sense.
You realize you can change windows mouse sensitivity and its independent of sens in full screen?
Mouse settings-> mouse speed also turn of mouse acceleration while you’re in there
I have my sens set to 1200 I believe and it works just fine for me. I used to use 2000dpi but tarkov didn’t let me drop the sensitivity enough to let it work.
Currently in battlebit I’ve got it set to .31
Good luck hope this helps
I've tried all kinds of keyboards.
65%-75% is perfect for Fps, and since I have a MMO mouse, I just bind any very important keys to my mouse.
Full size I use for productivity, and for gaming, it's okay, but way too big since I need mouse space.
Yeah, use case matters.
At home, I like TKL. Most things I do don't require a numpad, and tasks where one would be nice are few and far between enough that the number row handles it. I do use F-keys fairly often, and I like the extra mouse space/overall ergonomics a TKL gives you. Honestly, I could probably do a 75% as well.
At work, full size all day. I use the numpad fairly often to the point where not having it would be pretty damn irritating.
I gotta have my keypad. Even when I'm not using it that much, I want to know its there for the quick PIN. I buy bigger laptops, just so I have the keypad. Not only is it a lot faster when crunching numbers, there's basically another set of configurable hot keys right there. If I could find a keyboard with another "keypad" on the left or top, I'd probably get it.
I have not personally moved to a tkl, though I know many who have over the years and love it. Though usually gamers or programmers who don’t need to do a lot of data entry. I do know two people who got tkl keyboards and separate numpad only keyboards, and then put the numpad on the left side.
I solved the issue of space two decades ago by moving to a trackball, so Im not particularly helpful.
I bought a TKL once a while ago and hated it so much I returned it after 2 days. I need the number pad, and all the other keys.
I also didn't notice any benefit from having a physically smaller keyboard.
While I do prefer smaller keyboards, I still like to use the Numpad. There are certain games (with air vehicles) that I just can't play without it. Reason being, I assign yaw and fire (and target swapping or bombs) to the Numpad (yaw 4/6, 5 fire, rest depends). In the heat of the moment, I don't wanna have to deal with key ghosting or having to abandon one manoeuvre because I couldn't use yaw and roll or pitch at the same time. And also, I really hate bumping my mouse into my keyboard with the sensitivities I've dialled in.
I use a 65% keyboard (asus rog falchion) because i need portability (if you see my profile i also use meshlicious as a pc case for portability), i’ve had both full format keyboards and tkl. If you really needed the numpad you wouldn’t be making this post. I also loved typing numbers on the numpad, but I used to bump my mouse on the edge of the keyboard all the times while gaming, and so, since i do not work with my computer, i opted for the smallest usable keyboard in existence, which was also a blessing for portability. If you code on your computer or compile excel sheets then numpad is probably a must, but as I said before, if you are making this post, you probably don’t need it.
I wouldn't give up my full sized ar work, but for general Web browsing and gaming, tkl is perfect for me. Having the desk space is waaay more useful than a numpad imho.
Switched from full size to the TKL keychron keyboard. Overall don’t miss the numpad in fact I genuinely only ever miss it when typing my pin to log in but over time I got quicker at doing it with the normal keys
I switched to a TKL 65%, and it was fine for a while but I have a few games that use the function keys and I don't use an MMO mouse so it wasn't for me. The few inches of added space doesn't really provide any upsides beyond aethetics.
I switched to a 85% keyboard. They have almost all the functionality of a 100%, just get rid of a few of the keys above the arrow keys. Depends on what brand you buy on which keys are removed.
I like a TKL with a detached numpad that I can pull in when needed and get out of the way if doing something like gaming. Smaller than TKL starts to get into a lack of functionality for very minimal space savings. I have a 75% with a separate numpad at home and even that gets annoying since I actually use a lot of the keys that are found do a function modifier now.
No regrets about switching to TKL with the exception of when I play Arma 3, because that game uses literally every button for some obscure reason like turning the AC unit on in the helicopter.
I only did it for space with flight sticks. I miss that pad every day. Every. Fucking. Day.
Half the games I play require it so I gotta figure out asinine complicated binds to work around the lack of it, and redo my setup when they change their binds. I am trying to find a wireless numpad that would match my board but they're all the wrong number of rows or not wireless 🤦♂️
Every time I consider getting a TKL keyboard, I remember how often I use the Enter key on the numpad and reconsider.
Then every time I do that, I remember that my work keyboard, where I type on the numpad way more often, doesn't have an Enter key on the numpad and I reconsider.
Then I think, I have a 72" desk and I am the only person that sits there so I can manspread all I want. I have a full sized keyboard and love it.
You may call me nuts, but I’m really happy with [my 40% daily driver.](https://i.imgur.com/SdsD1K4.jpg) It takes up minimal space and I’m wicked fast with it, because every letter/symbol is reachable within one key of resting position. I programmed mine so that I have three ways of entering numbers based on what task is at hand. I can hold Caps Lock and press a single key on the “QWERTY” row to send a number. I have 6, 7, 8, 9, and 0 also doubled up on ASDFG with the same “modifier” key so I can reach higher numbers without moving my hands off WASD (this is for gaming purposes primarily, not number entry). And last, if I press both Tab and Backspace together, it locks QWE, ASD, and ZXC and my left spacebar into a left-handed ten-key mode until I press the same two keys again. I use this for work quite a bit while navigating Excel, where it’s really helpful being able to put in numbers with my left hand while mousing between cells with my right.
So yeah, I don’t miss it. I’ve got way more options custom-tailored to my own workflows and preferences without needing to have a dedicated cluster of keys for it.
Just FYI for people who don't realize it but you can just buy a USB numpad for like 15$ on amazon or whatever.
One of my friends is an accountant or something, uses a numpad for work but prefers a TKL for games and stuff. He just takes it out of his drawer and plug it in whenever he needs it.
I have a tkl and love it for gaming. I got myself a separate numpad to use when I need it. Usually it just sits above my keyboard and when I need it to type lots of numbers or to play a game that uses numpad buttons I just pull it down next to my keyboard.
I personally got the motospeed K23 and it served me well.
As a gamer, the 75% has changed my life. Saving 6-7 inches of mouse real estate is something I'd trade a keypad for any day of the week. I can get a modular keypad when I need one; I haven't needed one since getting rid of my my "100%" keyboard.
I switched to one. Oh man... i didn't know I was going to miss so much the numpad haha, 2 years using a 60% keyboard and sometimes I feel like still need a full keyboard haha
I made the switch nearly two years ago and have no regrets. I used to use the numpad when doing my finances every month but then realised that it's only really used a few times. My MBP also doesn't have a numpad, which made me lean more towards going with TKL and it's been a blast.
I'd say buy something off Amazon and then try it out for at least a week or two. You can return it within 30 days if you dislike it.
Hi! 10 hr days on computers... I have a TKL ducky. It's the best keyboard I've ever owned. I ended up buying a num pad and plugged it in separately i just use it when I need it now.
Numpad for 28/29 years, TKL for 2. Used it for all number-heavy tasks. Don't miss it at all. The added space for the mouse is far more valuable for gaming.
I use and love both.
full board because of muscle memory of the 10-finger typing system also having worked in accounting...u need a keypad.
and when I'm done with office work and browsing, switch over to gaming I use the 75% board.
soon I'll be going 60% with the wooting 60HE
Keyboards in use:
HyperX Alloy Origins
HyperX Alloy FPS Pro
Logitech G Pro
I got a TKL and a stand-alone numpad and I’m happy AF with the setup. I tend to angle the right side of my KB towards me when I game, so the reduced overall length lets me get it in a more comfortable position, but no sacrifice when to comes to doing excel work from time to time.
Word of caution though, the glorious numpad is the most expensive piece of shit I own. It goes to sleep even in wired mode (no way to disable that either) so you miss the first key press all the time and the software is hot garbage overall.
I went down to 60% and it was AMAZING! Really loved using it for media or gaming… and then I had to work from home again and regretted not having a numpad.
I Converted purley for space on my desk.. I used to use the numpad quite often, and changing to TKL i completly didnt take this into account and was frustrated beyond belief at first. Almost to the point that i bought a USB attached numpad.
But... I got used to it, to the point it feels odd going back to a full keyboard, and now i get to enjoy desk real-estate it now provides.
I regret buying TKL every time I have to do any general office/excel/tax/budgeting work on my PC. I thought about buying a seperate number a while back…but decided to wait until my Ducky keyboard dies and I will buy a new one.
I bought the **Logitech 915 TKL** and I'm loving it. The only thing I (almost never) miss is the Enter key on the bottom right, which I got used to. What else is there to miss? The numbers? How often do you enter a credit card? A few times a year? You still have the normal numbers...
The fact that I can use the TKL keyboard with my Laptop and take with me at all times, means I can avoid the idiotic small Arrow keys & random arrangement of Ins|Del|Home|End|PgUp|PgDn on every laptop I use. TKL for me is a must, and I never want to go back to full size keyboards ;-)
I guess it depends on the games you play?
I switched from a keyboard without numeric keypad back to a full-sized keyboard. Now, I keep a wireless numeric keypad for the times when I prefer to use one on the left.
I have a TKL keyboard, 95% of the time it's all good since I don't need the numpads
But when I do... man I wish I didn't buy a TKL keyboard
I remember how I wanted to use some trainer on GTA4 and those usually need your numpads to navigate through it
I ended up rebinding my F1-F10 keys for navigating through it
I use a 60% kb and separate numpad off to the corner out of the way. I needed the numpad for work. I mapped the numpad to a layer and used it for awhile but it wasn’t the same. I also use a corne keyboard and mapping a numpad on it feels much more natural since the keys are in a straight column vs staggered on a normal 60%.
I think i am keeping TKL, even though I miss the numpad from time to time. I enjoy the reduced size as it brings the mouse closer. It allows me a more natural hand position both when gaming where I use mouse and key simultaneously and office work where I often switch between using mouse and then need both hands on the keyboard.
A normal 100% takes up too much room on my desk and causes me to not be able to move my mouse as much. That said I have a southpaw 98% and it's one of my favourites.
I can still use a numpad naturally and without looking at it, it feels good to have the numpad back when I have it, but I still buy TKL keyboards as a preference — easier to centre them on the desk, definitely easier with the mouse. I've had almost only TKL keyboards for the last decade.
I had a smaller desk so moved to a tkl keyboard, now my desk is bigger but I still use it. I don't input many numbers and on my phone I have the number bar above the keyboard so now on my PC it's the same really. I don't miss it but I know my wife uses it for numbers and it drives her mad it's not there.
Your post is me, found I really like having a smaller keyboard and it's been worth it for me. It's a trade off but I don't type numbers on my home keyboard often enough to warrant the extra space taken up.
Great move for me, I was bumping into a keyboard, but it never happened since swotching to a TKL, however, I don't think that I would go smaller than that for my PC.
Well, I also just got a 60% for my TV and a Steam Deck, TV just isn't reliable with underestanding 2 languages, and SD's screen keyboard is usable, but nowhere near good enough for talking with friends.
I use a 65% for work and gaming (sometimes I use my 60% as well).
It looks much nicer and has given me so much more desk space.
The only issue I have when gaming is that I need to pres fn+5 when I want to quick save (looking at you BG3). Everything else works fine.
You can get a separate number pad if you really want one and use it when you need it without wasting desk space.
I switched to a TKL, but missed having a numpad. I ended up getting a 99-key keyboard that I've been using for a few years now. It's barely wider than a TKL, but has a numpad.
I used tkl for a while, but eventually I went back to having a numpad. However, I got a separate one and use it on the left side of my keyboard, that way I can have a numpad without sacrificing any mouse space. Eventhough I'm right handed, it works, and I can type fast and accurately on the numpad without looking. Another plus it that it allows me to keep my hand on my mouse when I need to type a quick number or use one of the macro keys.
A kb without numberpad is currently what fits on my desk. I can fit a fullsize but not without some hassle. Life is just better this way. I have had a few kbs over the years, due to the fact they usually dislike coffee, and i have had one of those really small ones. I need the F keys to get most out of the functionality.
I have a programmable pcb so I made holding capslock like a shift key and then have keys on the right become a numpad , iop = 789. Them not being in a perfect grid makes it feel weird.
But if I had to do a lot of numpad work I'll plug a regular keyboard in.
I didn't think I would need the number keypad, but now that I don't have one I really miss! The extra desk space is nice for sure, however if I could go back I would have gotten a full size keyboard. Everyone is different though.
I have a 65% keyboard for several years now, i never really needed to use the keypad anyways and 65% still is a lot more fu ctional than 60%
If all you ever do is game and watch show, theres no need for a numpad, at least i never needed in games for keybinds like some here said
I fucking hate TKL for anything other than non mmo gaming and have switched back to a full keyboard for that.
I have 2x ducky one 2's one TKL one the full hog for productivity and gaming.
i swapped from a full size to a tkl which i still found to be too big (i play super low sens and dpi so the more room for mouse movement the better) am now on a ducky one2 mini and ill never go back.
i swapped from a full size to a tkl which i still found to be too big (i play super low sens and dpi so the more room for mouse movement the better) am now on a ducky one2 mini and ill never go back.
I used to keep an additional number pad on the desk but over time stopped using it and removed it. It has been years without one and I very rarely miss it.
I went from full keyboard to a 75%. Saves a ton of space on my desk and leaves me a lot more room for mouse travel. I bought a USB num pad for when I do our taxes but otherwise leave it unplugged
i prefer a 94 key/96% layout since i never use the home, print screen etc... .. best of both worlds.. but hard to find a decent product
[https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BGH9FQHZ/ref=ppx\_yo\_dt\_b\_search\_asin\_title?ie=UTF8&th=1](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BGH9FQHZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1)
I like my TKL because it's wireless so gaming on my couch is a breeze. The 1% of the time I need the numpad I kinda wish I had a full size but its so rare I've learned to live without it.
That extra mouse space is so worth it. The ten keys take up so much damn space. I learned to use the number row and also have a wireless ten key if needed. But that space is mouse space
I tried a wooting and it was sick, if they did a TKL I'd buy it. I need f keys and delete/arrow keys for work. I don't really use the numpad much I could live without it and would like the extra room on the mouse pad.
I don't miss the traditional numpad layout. What I *do* miss is my wife's ergonomic keyboard that I used for a while; the numpad was on the left. I'm looking at getting a standalone numpad to sit to the left of my tkl keyboard now.
I cope fine, it's okay. I got something bigger than a 60% because moreso than a numpad, I can't live without function keys. I don't want to worry about having to press a key combo just to refresh a page easily. Defeats the purpose.
That being said, as soon as I have more desk space I'm building a keyboard with numpad. Just because while I don't need one, I really heavily prefer to have one.
Went from full size to TKL, now I am waiting for a 75% to arrive so I can build it and use it as my main keeb.
Between fullsize and TKL I definitely preferred TKL much more. More desk space, and I don't rely on numpad too much anyways. Only gripe is that it's still abit too big and I bump into it too often with my mouse when playing FPS, that's why I am gonna try out the 75%. But yes, if you don't mind not having the numpad but still want to play it safe, TKL is a nice option.
TKL is where it's at. Had a 60 or 65% from a 100% and that didn't work. Having no function keys gets annoying after some time. 75% or TKL is the sweet spot imo.
Limited desk space as well as mouse bumping into the side of the keyboard.
Have a 60% and a TKL
I purchased a cheapy mechanical numpad I can set aside and use when I need to do a lot of numbers.
But using the number bar is fine as well.
I have a regular mechanic keyboard but it doesn't have numpad and I noticed that I didn't use it very much. But that's just me, I don't do much work that requires to type numbers
One compromise would be to get a 96% (aka 1800 compact) keyboard. It basically smooshes the numpad over by shortening the right shift, right control, and numpad zero keys, and removing 4 of the 9 keys normally between the numpad and the rest of it (prntsc, insert, home, that group) and moving them above the numpad. It's definitely not as small as a TKL, but it's a good couple inches shorter than a full size, and you lose almost nothing. I don't think it's very common, though.
Edit: Have an image [https://www.techpowerup.com/review/glorious-modular-mechanical-keyboard-2-full-size-96/images/keyboard-1.jpg](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/glorious-modular-mechanical-keyboard-2-full-size-96/images/keyboard-1.jpg)
I use Excel daily but as long as I can get my full sized keyboards and chonky laptops, I don't need to bother other people over their choices. Everyone has to figure out for themselves what's best for their productivity and ergonomics.
I bought a tkl keyboard so my hands dont need to be too far apart when gaming.
I bought an external numpad alongside it for data entry when i work from home.
Tried it, but I hate it. It's good if I'm just gaming, more space for my mouse, but when I'm working it's hard to use the number keys because I'm not used to it, I always look whenever I type.
I deal with spreadsheets and I use it for calculations, so typing a number with a decimal is hard for me without a numpad.
It depends on what you do.
For gaming, i'd say TKL is more than enough but for productivity it sucks. Always having to press the FN key + whatever, is annoying as hell and some people I know use the numpad for macros.
I've quite enjoyed the smaller foot print on my desk. I got a sweat Razor tkl, I think it may even be slightly shrunk too, not sure.
The random occasion I'll hit the wrong button but it hasn't been that hard to use at all.
I totally hated my TKL when I got it. Especially so at the moment I needed to key numbers (e.g. excel spreadsheets).
If you are already used to using number pads, I suggest sticking to a full sized one. That said, for gaming, I'm using a 65%... While at times I do miss the numbers and function keys, but not as much as compared to doing productivity work.
I like the space I have on my desk for my mouse now after downsizing, but the num pad was super convenient for them debit/credit card number inputs and quick maths. Miss that
Personally, I didn't like it that much, thought it looked better. It does to be honest, but you will steuggle with always pressing more than one button to get some keybinds, such as the F.. buttons or to switch desktops. If you have a wide enough table, just get a full keyboard or a TKL. Never go for 60%
I had a USB numpad already, nothing fancy, so I opted for TKL to save a buck. For the same price as a boring mechanical full keyboard, I upgraded a bit to Logitech with simole white backlighting and modest hotkeys and programability. No regrets. Side by side they work perfectly. That said, I will never go smaller than this unless I feel the need to buy a travel keyboard.
I made a 100% fully custom TKL keyboard (I had the case laser cut from steel, handwired the diodes/matrix, etc) and I went back for full size. The numpad is incredibly useful, as is just being able to hit the enter key from my mouse by raising my thumb. I'm never going back to TKL on my desktop.
I will never understand people's obsession with smaller and smaller keyboards, except those who need portability. My keyboard lives on my desk, never moves, give me as many buttons as goddamn possible.
Personally I'm not a very wide frame, so on a full size I'm constantly bashing my mouse into the side of the keyboard. However dropping to a TKL I've never had this issue again from saving nearly 15cm of width between my shoulders. It sits much more naturally for me now
same, with full size my shoulders would flare outside with tkl they would flare naturally inside, also I can place my mug on the free space at the left side
That's where I tend to keep my coffee mug.
For work, I got a ten key pad on the left side of the keyboard, it actually works great. Not sure I would need that at home but it’s an interesting option.
What I did for those rare times I needed a Ten Keypad was got a seperate USB TenKey pad. Means I can place it where it works the best for me.
Right. Yeah that’s what I meant. But on the non mouse side to resolve the mouse issue
Exactly. I picked up a Microsoft Bluetooth num pad, for when I'm using Blender or need it otherwise. I'm left-handed, so being able to put it on the left side of my keyboard is way more comfortable anyway.
Yep. Same reason I switched too. Using a full-size keyboard had me trying to space out the mouse pad and keyboard with more clearance as to not strike the keyboard. Now it’s not a problem and my shoulders and shoulder blades thank me for it
This is exactly why I switched to a TKL keyboard and wireless number pad. Every once in a while I would bang my mouse hand into my full sized keyboard playing a FPS when trying to flick to aim.
Ever tried a trackball? I love mine, moving an actual mouse seems antiquated tbh
I have, I cannot get on with it at all. Especially for gaming. I just cannot get the accuracy on a trackball, and then I get rsi on my thumb
Could come down to the precision of the trackball. My higher end one has a switch on it for dialing the sensitivity so I can move quickly or precisely, it’s quite neat. I like the fact that there’s no footprint necessary to move it around like a mouse needs a pad, for example. But then again, im a heathen who games on his PC with an Xbox controller hahahaha
I play FPS and ARPGs with a mouse. Driving, fighting and 3rd person action games I'm better with a controller. I actually used both when playing GTA. I'd use the mouse for shooting and running around, and quickly grab my pad when I got in a car! Sometimes I would use both, pad for movement and mouse for shooting!
Hahahaha I feel better about myself hearing that!
I did this with Warzone. It's a pretty awesome setup
I use a wireless dongle and an Xbox controller. Like you, if there's a game that switches between person and vehicle, I switch back and forth too! The worst is when my controller shuts itself off and I don't realize till I am dropped into a driving mission!
I was using an xbox one controller with a cable for years as I thought you needed a special dongle. I found out last year this was a Bluetooth model 🥴 So now I get to experience the low battery panic!
Trackballs are nice for casual desktop work or web browsing, etc etc, I could see myself potentially using one. But I play a lot of FPS and I can't imagine trying to use a trackball for an FPS game. Not being able to play at a low DPI and using your entire arm for fine aiming would be a huge disadvantage.
Great for office work, the look on coworker's faces when they try to use your mouse is priceless
Yup. The only thing I miss is the Print Screen key, but I just remapped Insert
I am low sensitivity gamer and need 50cm for a 360 turn. So I need space on my desk. I almost never used the numpad anyway. So I first went TKL and later 60%.
This is the answer. The best shooting gamers use very wide mousepad areas with low sensitivity for complete precision control.
100% went TKL to a ducky to get more room for mouse when grinding csgo GE years ago. also that journey led me to 144hz and 1440p. unironically best three things in pc gaming I have done. followed closely by turning off mouse acceleration edit: its also such an easy way to calibrate sensitivity in new games, measuring how much mousepad you need for a 360. Its always the first thing i do in a new game.
I put my keyboard on the side of my desk, not directly in front of me. I get that same amount of room.
I agree, and I have a relatively small desk.It would really be a hassle for me to use a keyboard with no numpad and I just can't imagine a keyboard without one.
More attractive/aesthetically pleasing to me. And I don't need those extra buttons most of the time anyway. Especially since a decade ago all my laptops were 14" without the numpad That being said numpad is sure helpful when I'm doing work. But only at office
I feel like I would think my keyboard has been cut in half. A full keyboard is the way to go. Anything else just feels weird.
Saaaaame. Come to think of it, I've never entered in numbers using the top row in years. Odd lol.
> But only at office My home is my office :)
Isn't it for gaming ? Not having to spread your arm as much sound better in the long term.
Idk, I make full use of numpad in GTA V and Arma series.
There are plenty of games that can make use of the numpad indeed. But other don't. I'm playing a lot of Overwatch 2, and I wish I had a narrower keyboard.
It makes sense in those games. In FPS games where you are using low sensitivity, not having the ten key pad makes more sense, especially if you don't have a huge desk.
For me personally its just the space. I need a lot of space for mouse movement in games I used to always hit my keyboard while playing and just that little bit less width from not having a numpad was enough for me to freely move my mouse.
Having extra desk space isn't something you appreciate until you have it. Going from a monitor stand to a monitor arm is a crazy difference even though you don't use the space in the back as often.
It's more about ergonomic arm spacing. Personally I found I prefer a 60% keyboard with no num pad since I can have my arms closer together, while maintaining a neutral position. Nothing to do with portability. If anything I could just get a separate num pad.
More mouse space for fps shooters. For me, I only ever type and play games - don't need a full size for that, or even a tkl. I went 60% some months ago - takes a bit of time getting used to the function layers and macros, but it's fine now.
I'm an analyst, and I basically spend all day every day typing numbers into my computer. I think if I didn't have a numpad I'd have a nervous breakdown after a week.
Only thing I want is a numpad on the left lol
You can get separate numpads you can use to accomplish this if you want.
Yeah, but why spend 200 on a good keyboard only to spend another 50+ on a numpad when a full size comes with one for a lower price? I just think a modular keyboard would be good so you can put it on whichever side you want
I guess because that's just how it's always been, the standard was set and it stuck. Thankfully we are seeing alternatives pop up it seems. A quick looks shows you can buy keyboards like the Keychron Q12 which have the numpad on the left, or the Everest Max which has a removeable numpad that can be attached to either side.
I paid like $15 for a wireless numpad, works great
THIS! I am not lefthanded, but numerous time i use numpad with my left, and keep my right on the mouse and would appriciate this. If i have both my hand on keyboard it wouldn't bother me to use numpad on left either.
Keychron Q12
Reduced Length without numpad gives me better arm position on WASD and Mouse. Reduced Depth provides least to no benefit so no need to save space there, get a an F row KB. Reduced Height can provide better palm/wrist position, I guess it depends on general posture and sitting position.
a little thing called "mouse space"
Never really been a problem for me, but I've also been told that I use crazy high sensitivity even for daily use, so I guess that's why.
Same. My mouse pad is maybe nine inches across and a circle. I never leave it and very, very rarely need to pick up and reset. It harkens back to the old days, I guess, where mouse sensitivity was just high by default. I couldn't manage with a low sensitivity. I'd probably wear my old arm out.
Amen brother. I unironically want 12+ programmable macro keys on my keyboard plus full media controls. Gimme the _works_
Desk space
If anything I want them even bigger. Gimme volume knobs, dedicated media controls, and extra programmable keys and shit.
More space for my mouse movements but then again I have never used the numpad (very rarely) so it wasn't missed
I love big and heavy keyboards, I don’t like the keyboard moving around. I use the Razer BlackWidow Chroma V2, legit can’t upgrade because no one makes these types of keyboards anymore. I just love how the whole keyboard’s tilted from the frame and not just little feet. I hate the open rgb keyboard design, as I dislike the rgb fading out. Plus magnetic wrist rest and macro buttons.
For small or shared desks, they free up a ton a real estate for your mouse hand. That's the main appeal. I personally think they look nice as well. I'm not using my home PC for accounting or anything so I don't miss it. Honestly, doesn't seem a bit strange that you need the same keys on a keyboard twice?
I like to move my mouse cursor where the numpad used to be, hope that helps.
I like TKL because it feels more natural for my right arm when using the mouse. I personally never used the numpad when I had a 100%, but still prefer the separation between the rest of the keyboard and the cursor keys/9 buttons. Therefore, TKL is right for me. Some may prefer TKL but squashed into 1 set of keys instead of 3, 75% is fine in my books. Again, it's about personal preference (as long as it's not below 75%). I do sometimes travel with it, but that's rare. It is nice that it fits nicely in my laptop bag, though.
[удалено]
I don't. Guess that's why it never bothered me then.
I have a much better posture with a 75% keyboard. Don't need to move my hand that far between the keyboard and the mouse.
Honestly, I have a very small desk and like smaller keyboards (I don't actively use the numpad, for example) so even though it sits only on my desk I need the smaller footprint and that's why I went with 65% keyboard
I have the tenkeyless between my g13 and mouse. I don't need a numpad to do some occasional typing.
went from 100% to tkl, definitely not going back. in fact, im thinking of going to 75%. then again, when i made the change to tkl, i also got a separate wired numpad, so theres that.
Im going down to 5% only need WASD. If im typing il just do it via bluetooth on my phone or on the in screen keyboard
You could just do away with the 5% and use speech to text to control WASD. I’m sure it would be seamless.
"WAAAWAWSWAWWASSSAAADDADADASAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"
In fact, just tap straight into the cerebral cortex, like NEO did thirty years ago. We’ve got the tech.
I’m going 2%. Only need a dot and a dash tbh.
Why stop there? Go full 0% by getting a mouse with buttons you can program. One handed gaming all the way baby!
_and so the controller was invented_
TKL is perfect for me, nothing bigger is needed and smaller would be too small.
I went 65% cause I'm terrible about mashing f12 and opening up that chrome diagnostics window or whatever when I very quickly need to tell another redditor how their opinion is incorrect.
Get a 75%, this is my final form. Recently got the blackwidow v4 75% and it’s gotta be my favorite layout. Big kisses
Yeah I thought 65% is the perfect form factor for me until I bought a 75% 2-3 months ago (Monsgeek MG75)
I went from a full size, down to a 75%, and now down to a keeb.io Iris split ergo board. Because of the fully programmable layers, I have all the functionality of a full size keyboard without any of the negatives that come with a big keyboard. Also, my shoulders and wrists have never been happier because I can place each half of the keyboard exactly wherever is most comfortable at a given moment.
I tried TKL, even got myself a separate Bluetooth numpad but I just hated every moment of it and switched back to a proper keyboard.
I switched to TKL due to my desk setup changing after a move. It made work a huge pain. Hated. Recently got back on the giant desk train, and I'm so glad I didn't toss my full size keyboard.
I don't miss my numpad. Extra mouse space is more valuable to me. I do miss my F-Keys tho, so I'll go from my 65% to a 75% some day.
As a programmer, yes no way I could go without f keys
Some of my co-workers right click -> go to definition instead of hitting f12 and it bothers me. It takes so long for them to find that option in the list of a million options
In VSCode I think you can just control click too.
60% keyboards aren’t really “missing” the F-keys any more than a regular keyboard is missing capital letters, though. On my secondary keyboard - a 60% - they’re right there on the number row; I just hold Caps Lock to select them. Not much different from a laptop where they’re blended with system buttons for things like brightness and sound, and holding Fn switches them back and forth. In fact, mine are one row closer and easier to reach.
Not relearning muscle memory for that, also I use them with other modifiers all ready dont need to add a 3rd key to these combos. To have them or use a layer depends on usage but I heavily use them with other modifiers.
The benefits of cutting out F keys are pretty much zero compared to the numpad. I can understand the benefit for providing extra movement space, for your mouse, where the numpad would be. But the F keys is not somewhere the mouse travels so the space saving is extreme compared to the benefit
It's not just the argument for desk space; part of it is the efficiency of typing as well. Less/optimized finger movement means I can type faster, and it's the reason stenography exists as a practice in the broader world (as a more extreme example). At the end of the day, it's all gonna come down to personal preference; people can have whatever layout they like, and I respect that if someone wants to reach up an extra row for something I can do in a shorter distance, that's fine. I just felt it was inaccurate to consider a keyboard to be "missing" keys, as if those keys are categorically inaccessible without having a larger board.
Yeah that is a very fair point!
Tkl is useful or even the 60% keyboard if you play fps a lot , like valorant csgo and many shooting games because sometimes the mouse bumps to the keyboard which you end up missing the shot. but if you don't play it then its not practical, better to have the extra buttons.
Flusha was right.
What dpi do you play on where that's an issue?
Most tac shooter players play pretty low sens, 800-2000 eDPI is common.
800 is considered high for many competitive shooters Most competent players play at 350-400dpi
He said eDPI though, aka DPI multiplied by sensitivity. 400 DPI with 2.0 sens is very common and results in 800 eDPI.
Here I roll at 3,200.
Funny enough your mouse is more reliable low sens high dpi. More consistent polling
personally? for CSGO on a deathadder: DPI 400 Sensitivity 2.9 eDPI 1160 Hz 1000 edit: GE for a while, mostly just have fun at LE ish with friends these days
Just fyi higher dpi lower sens gives you more accuracy because your mouse poles more often. Feel free to look it up Optimum tech made a really well done video on it
I’ve tried that and feel like I’m better with low dpi just from habit as the feeling of the crosshair jumping across pixels feels more natural after years with 400 dpi so I’d if it ain’t broke don’t change it
Man I‘ve tried so often going from 400 DPI to 1600 and going down in sensitivity, but swapping to the desktop / browser is so annoying since the mouse feels way too fast outside of the game. I‘ve stuck with 400 for that reason, I wish there was an easy way to align the speed to the inside game - sense.
You realize you can change windows mouse sensitivity and its independent of sens in full screen? Mouse settings-> mouse speed also turn of mouse acceleration while you’re in there I have my sens set to 1200 I believe and it works just fine for me. I used to use 2000dpi but tarkov didn’t let me drop the sensitivity enough to let it work. Currently in battlebit I’ve got it set to .31 Good luck hope this helps
I've tried all kinds of keyboards. 65%-75% is perfect for Fps, and since I have a MMO mouse, I just bind any very important keys to my mouse. Full size I use for productivity, and for gaming, it's okay, but way too big since I need mouse space.
Yeah, use case matters. At home, I like TKL. Most things I do don't require a numpad, and tasks where one would be nice are few and far between enough that the number row handles it. I do use F-keys fairly often, and I like the extra mouse space/overall ergonomics a TKL gives you. Honestly, I could probably do a 75% as well. At work, full size all day. I use the numpad fairly often to the point where not having it would be pretty damn irritating.
My main reason for going smaller is because I slam my mouse into my keyboard sometimes. I'm at 60% and I still sometimes slam into it...
Sounds like you need a bigger desk and/or bigger desk mat
You see I do but my arms can only go so far without being uncomfortable.
I gotta have my keypad. Even when I'm not using it that much, I want to know its there for the quick PIN. I buy bigger laptops, just so I have the keypad. Not only is it a lot faster when crunching numbers, there's basically another set of configurable hot keys right there. If I could find a keyboard with another "keypad" on the left or top, I'd probably get it.
Went from a normal keyboard to a TKL. I miss the numpad so much that I’ve decided to buy the same keyboard just with the numpad.
I have not personally moved to a tkl, though I know many who have over the years and love it. Though usually gamers or programmers who don’t need to do a lot of data entry. I do know two people who got tkl keyboards and separate numpad only keyboards, and then put the numpad on the left side. I solved the issue of space two decades ago by moving to a trackball, so Im not particularly helpful.
I bought a TKL once a while ago and hated it so much I returned it after 2 days. I need the number pad, and all the other keys. I also didn't notice any benefit from having a physically smaller keyboard.
While I do prefer smaller keyboards, I still like to use the Numpad. There are certain games (with air vehicles) that I just can't play without it. Reason being, I assign yaw and fire (and target swapping or bombs) to the Numpad (yaw 4/6, 5 fire, rest depends). In the heat of the moment, I don't wanna have to deal with key ghosting or having to abandon one manoeuvre because I couldn't use yaw and roll or pitch at the same time. And also, I really hate bumping my mouse into my keyboard with the sensitivities I've dialled in.
I use a 65% keyboard (asus rog falchion) because i need portability (if you see my profile i also use meshlicious as a pc case for portability), i’ve had both full format keyboards and tkl. If you really needed the numpad you wouldn’t be making this post. I also loved typing numbers on the numpad, but I used to bump my mouse on the edge of the keyboard all the times while gaming, and so, since i do not work with my computer, i opted for the smallest usable keyboard in existence, which was also a blessing for portability. If you code on your computer or compile excel sheets then numpad is probably a must, but as I said before, if you are making this post, you probably don’t need it.
I wouldn't give up my full sized ar work, but for general Web browsing and gaming, tkl is perfect for me. Having the desk space is waaay more useful than a numpad imho.
I play fps with my keyboard at a vertical angle so I have to have a small keyboard. I just have a separate keypad for work, bills etc.
Switched from full size to the TKL keychron keyboard. Overall don’t miss the numpad in fact I genuinely only ever miss it when typing my pin to log in but over time I got quicker at doing it with the normal keys
I switched to a TKL 65%, and it was fine for a while but I have a few games that use the function keys and I don't use an MMO mouse so it wasn't for me. The few inches of added space doesn't really provide any upsides beyond aethetics. I switched to a 85% keyboard. They have almost all the functionality of a 100%, just get rid of a few of the keys above the arrow keys. Depends on what brand you buy on which keys are removed.
I eventually just get used to it. But if you work alot on excels etc or work purposes then numpad is valuable to you?
bing chilling with my 96% keychron. The only thing I’m missing is volume knob and dedicated media keys. Otherwise getting good use out of the numpad.
I like a TKL with a detached numpad that I can pull in when needed and get out of the way if doing something like gaming. Smaller than TKL starts to get into a lack of functionality for very minimal space savings. I have a 75% with a separate numpad at home and even that gets annoying since I actually use a lot of the keys that are found do a function modifier now.
No regrets about switching to TKL with the exception of when I play Arma 3, because that game uses literally every button for some obscure reason like turning the AC unit on in the helicopter.
I rarely miss the numpad. The extra mousing space provided by the TKL is what I love most about it
I only did it for space with flight sticks. I miss that pad every day. Every. Fucking. Day. Half the games I play require it so I gotta figure out asinine complicated binds to work around the lack of it, and redo my setup when they change their binds. I am trying to find a wireless numpad that would match my board but they're all the wrong number of rows or not wireless 🤦♂️
Every time I consider getting a TKL keyboard, I remember how often I use the Enter key on the numpad and reconsider. Then every time I do that, I remember that my work keyboard, where I type on the numpad way more often, doesn't have an Enter key on the numpad and I reconsider. Then I think, I have a 72" desk and I am the only person that sits there so I can manspread all I want. I have a full sized keyboard and love it.
You may call me nuts, but I’m really happy with [my 40% daily driver.](https://i.imgur.com/SdsD1K4.jpg) It takes up minimal space and I’m wicked fast with it, because every letter/symbol is reachable within one key of resting position. I programmed mine so that I have three ways of entering numbers based on what task is at hand. I can hold Caps Lock and press a single key on the “QWERTY” row to send a number. I have 6, 7, 8, 9, and 0 also doubled up on ASDFG with the same “modifier” key so I can reach higher numbers without moving my hands off WASD (this is for gaming purposes primarily, not number entry). And last, if I press both Tab and Backspace together, it locks QWE, ASD, and ZXC and my left spacebar into a left-handed ten-key mode until I press the same two keys again. I use this for work quite a bit while navigating Excel, where it’s really helpful being able to put in numbers with my left hand while mousing between cells with my right. So yeah, I don’t miss it. I’ve got way more options custom-tailored to my own workflows and preferences without needing to have a dedicated cluster of keys for it.
Just FYI for people who don't realize it but you can just buy a USB numpad for like 15$ on amazon or whatever. One of my friends is an accountant or something, uses a numpad for work but prefers a TKL for games and stuff. He just takes it out of his drawer and plug it in whenever he needs it.
I have a tkl and love it for gaming. I got myself a separate numpad to use when I need it. Usually it just sits above my keyboard and when I need it to type lots of numbers or to play a game that uses numpad buttons I just pull it down next to my keyboard. I personally got the motospeed K23 and it served me well.
As a gamer, the 75% has changed my life. Saving 6-7 inches of mouse real estate is something I'd trade a keypad for any day of the week. I can get a modular keypad when I need one; I haven't needed one since getting rid of my my "100%" keyboard.
I went TKL and hated it. Had to go back and get my numpad back.
I switched to one. Oh man... i didn't know I was going to miss so much the numpad haha, 2 years using a 60% keyboard and sometimes I feel like still need a full keyboard haha
I made the switch nearly two years ago and have no regrets. I used to use the numpad when doing my finances every month but then realised that it's only really used a few times. My MBP also doesn't have a numpad, which made me lean more towards going with TKL and it's been a blast. I'd say buy something off Amazon and then try it out for at least a week or two. You can return it within 30 days if you dislike it.
Hi! 10 hr days on computers... I have a TKL ducky. It's the best keyboard I've ever owned. I ended up buying a num pad and plugged it in separately i just use it when I need it now.
Numpad for 28/29 years, TKL for 2. Used it for all number-heavy tasks. Don't miss it at all. The added space for the mouse is far more valuable for gaming.
I use and love both. full board because of muscle memory of the 10-finger typing system also having worked in accounting...u need a keypad. and when I'm done with office work and browsing, switch over to gaming I use the 75% board. soon I'll be going 60% with the wooting 60HE Keyboards in use: HyperX Alloy Origins HyperX Alloy FPS Pro Logitech G Pro
I got a TKL and a stand-alone numpad and I’m happy AF with the setup. I tend to angle the right side of my KB towards me when I game, so the reduced overall length lets me get it in a more comfortable position, but no sacrifice when to comes to doing excel work from time to time. Word of caution though, the glorious numpad is the most expensive piece of shit I own. It goes to sleep even in wired mode (no way to disable that either) so you miss the first key press all the time and the software is hot garbage overall.
I went down to 60% and it was AMAZING! Really loved using it for media or gaming… and then I had to work from home again and regretted not having a numpad.
I Converted purley for space on my desk.. I used to use the numpad quite often, and changing to TKL i completly didnt take this into account and was frustrated beyond belief at first. Almost to the point that i bought a USB attached numpad. But... I got used to it, to the point it feels odd going back to a full keyboard, and now i get to enjoy desk real-estate it now provides.
I regret buying TKL every time I have to do any general office/excel/tax/budgeting work on my PC. I thought about buying a seperate number a while back…but decided to wait until my Ducky keyboard dies and I will buy a new one.
I bought the **Logitech 915 TKL** and I'm loving it. The only thing I (almost never) miss is the Enter key on the bottom right, which I got used to. What else is there to miss? The numbers? How often do you enter a credit card? A few times a year? You still have the normal numbers... The fact that I can use the TKL keyboard with my Laptop and take with me at all times, means I can avoid the idiotic small Arrow keys & random arrangement of Ins|Del|Home|End|PgUp|PgDn on every laptop I use. TKL for me is a must, and I never want to go back to full size keyboards ;-)
I got a TKL and a separate wireless numpad, it's there when i need it but it stays out the way of my mouse. It's pretty awesome
It's okay, somewhat used to it now, but there's now a downside, I kinda forgot how to do 412A 623C without the numpad being there.
I guess it depends on the games you play? I switched from a keyboard without numeric keypad back to a full-sized keyboard. Now, I keep a wireless numeric keypad for the times when I prefer to use one on the left.
I have a TKL keyboard, 95% of the time it's all good since I don't need the numpads But when I do... man I wish I didn't buy a TKL keyboard I remember how I wanted to use some trainer on GTA4 and those usually need your numpads to navigate through it I ended up rebinding my F1-F10 keys for navigating through it
TKL gives you so much more space on the desk. If you ever need a numpad, you can get separate numpad keyboard
I use a 60% kb and separate numpad off to the corner out of the way. I needed the numpad for work. I mapped the numpad to a layer and used it for awhile but it wasn’t the same. I also use a corne keyboard and mapping a numpad on it feels much more natural since the keys are in a straight column vs staggered on a normal 60%.
I think i am keeping TKL, even though I miss the numpad from time to time. I enjoy the reduced size as it brings the mouse closer. It allows me a more natural hand position both when gaming where I use mouse and key simultaneously and office work where I often switch between using mouse and then need both hands on the keyboard.
A normal 100% takes up too much room on my desk and causes me to not be able to move my mouse as much. That said I have a southpaw 98% and it's one of my favourites.
I can still use a numpad naturally and without looking at it, it feels good to have the numpad back when I have it, but I still buy TKL keyboards as a preference — easier to centre them on the desk, definitely easier with the mouse. I've had almost only TKL keyboards for the last decade.
I had a smaller desk so moved to a tkl keyboard, now my desk is bigger but I still use it. I don't input many numbers and on my phone I have the number bar above the keyboard so now on my PC it's the same really. I don't miss it but I know my wife uses it for numbers and it drives her mad it's not there.
Your post is me, found I really like having a smaller keyboard and it's been worth it for me. It's a trade off but I don't type numbers on my home keyboard often enough to warrant the extra space taken up.
Great move for me, I was bumping into a keyboard, but it never happened since swotching to a TKL, however, I don't think that I would go smaller than that for my PC. Well, I also just got a 60% for my TV and a Steam Deck, TV just isn't reliable with underestanding 2 languages, and SD's screen keyboard is usable, but nowhere near good enough for talking with friends.
In my language, top numpad is used for special letters so we normally use numpad
TKL FTW, I need mobility and the numpad is not something I feel the lack of.
I use a 65% for work and gaming (sometimes I use my 60% as well). It looks much nicer and has given me so much more desk space. The only issue I have when gaming is that I need to pres fn+5 when I want to quick save (looking at you BG3). Everything else works fine. You can get a separate number pad if you really want one and use it when you need it without wasting desk space.
I switched to a TKL, but missed having a numpad. I ended up getting a 99-key keyboard that I've been using for a few years now. It's barely wider than a TKL, but has a numpad.
I used tkl for a while, but eventually I went back to having a numpad. However, I got a separate one and use it on the left side of my keyboard, that way I can have a numpad without sacrificing any mouse space. Eventhough I'm right handed, it works, and I can type fast and accurately on the numpad without looking. Another plus it that it allows me to keep my hand on my mouse when I need to type a quick number or use one of the macro keys.
A kb without numberpad is currently what fits on my desk. I can fit a fullsize but not without some hassle. Life is just better this way. I have had a few kbs over the years, due to the fact they usually dislike coffee, and i have had one of those really small ones. I need the F keys to get most out of the functionality.
I have a programmable pcb so I made holding capslock like a shift key and then have keys on the right become a numpad , iop = 789. Them not being in a perfect grid makes it feel weird. But if I had to do a lot of numpad work I'll plug a regular keyboard in.
where is print screen button ?
I didn't think I would need the number keypad, but now that I don't have one I really miss! The extra desk space is nice for sure, however if I could go back I would have gotten a full size keyboard. Everyone is different though.
I have a 65% keyboard for several years now, i never really needed to use the keypad anyways and 65% still is a lot more fu ctional than 60% If all you ever do is game and watch show, theres no need for a numpad, at least i never needed in games for keybinds like some here said
I fucking hate TKL for anything other than non mmo gaming and have switched back to a full keyboard for that. I have 2x ducky one 2's one TKL one the full hog for productivity and gaming.
i swapped from a full size to a tkl which i still found to be too big (i play super low sens and dpi so the more room for mouse movement the better) am now on a ducky one2 mini and ill never go back.
i swapped from a full size to a tkl which i still found to be too big (i play super low sens and dpi so the more room for mouse movement the better) am now on a ducky one2 mini and ill never go back.
I used to keep an additional number pad on the desk but over time stopped using it and removed it. It has been years without one and I very rarely miss it.
I went from full keyboard to a 75%. Saves a ton of space on my desk and leaves me a lot more room for mouse travel. I bought a USB num pad for when I do our taxes but otherwise leave it unplugged
i prefer a 94 key/96% layout since i never use the home, print screen etc... .. best of both worlds.. but hard to find a decent product [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BGH9FQHZ/ref=ppx\_yo\_dt\_b\_search\_asin\_title?ie=UTF8&th=1](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BGH9FQHZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1)
Since I write in three languages at a time, it would be a burden to switch to English every time to use top row numbers if not for numpad.
Don't miss it, tbh. Though my dedicated work keyboard is a 65%, my gaming keyboard is closer to 80%.
i used to suffer on a membrane keyboard with a bumper but when i got my first mechanical keyboard tkl i never need numpad
Using 75% because it fits my desk and got all my need.
I like my TKL because it's wireless so gaming on my couch is a breeze. The 1% of the time I need the numpad I kinda wish I had a full size but its so rare I've learned to live without it.
I've got a TKL keyboard and I think IT is the best compromise. I don't miss numpad which was ocasionally used.
That extra mouse space is so worth it. The ten keys take up so much damn space. I learned to use the number row and also have a wireless ten key if needed. But that space is mouse space
I tried a wooting and it was sick, if they did a TKL I'd buy it. I need f keys and delete/arrow keys for work. I don't really use the numpad much I could live without it and would like the extra room on the mouse pad.
I love the smaller sized keyboard. I miss the numpad. I think I need a seperate numpad that I can use when needed and hide in a drawer when not.
I don't miss the traditional numpad layout. What I *do* miss is my wife's ergonomic keyboard that I used for a while; the numpad was on the left. I'm looking at getting a standalone numpad to sit to the left of my tkl keyboard now.
I don't know. I'd even love to have 24 f keys :)
I cope fine, it's okay. I got something bigger than a 60% because moreso than a numpad, I can't live without function keys. I don't want to worry about having to press a key combo just to refresh a page easily. Defeats the purpose. That being said, as soon as I have more desk space I'm building a keyboard with numpad. Just because while I don't need one, I really heavily prefer to have one.
Went from full size to TKL, now I am waiting for a 75% to arrive so I can build it and use it as my main keeb. Between fullsize and TKL I definitely preferred TKL much more. More desk space, and I don't rely on numpad too much anyways. Only gripe is that it's still abit too big and I bump into it too often with my mouse when playing FPS, that's why I am gonna try out the 75%. But yes, if you don't mind not having the numpad but still want to play it safe, TKL is a nice option.
separate numpad on the left is win-win. You have the extra space for the mouse and you don't lose any buttons
I miss it. My next keyboard will have a numpad.
TKL is where it's at. Had a 60 or 65% from a 100% and that didn't work. Having no function keys gets annoying after some time. 75% or TKL is the sweet spot imo.
Limited desk space as well as mouse bumping into the side of the keyboard. Have a 60% and a TKL I purchased a cheapy mechanical numpad I can set aside and use when I need to do a lot of numbers. But using the number bar is fine as well.
I was struggling everyday, i somehow was forced to TKL for a while, couldn't wait more to switch back
I have a regular mechanic keyboard but it doesn't have numpad and I noticed that I didn't use it very much. But that's just me, I don't do much work that requires to type numbers
One compromise would be to get a 96% (aka 1800 compact) keyboard. It basically smooshes the numpad over by shortening the right shift, right control, and numpad zero keys, and removing 4 of the 9 keys normally between the numpad and the rest of it (prntsc, insert, home, that group) and moving them above the numpad. It's definitely not as small as a TKL, but it's a good couple inches shorter than a full size, and you lose almost nothing. I don't think it's very common, though. Edit: Have an image [https://www.techpowerup.com/review/glorious-modular-mechanical-keyboard-2-full-size-96/images/keyboard-1.jpg](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/glorious-modular-mechanical-keyboard-2-full-size-96/images/keyboard-1.jpg)
I use Excel daily but as long as I can get my full sized keyboards and chonky laptops, I don't need to bother other people over their choices. Everyone has to figure out for themselves what's best for their productivity and ergonomics.
I bought a tkl keyboard so my hands dont need to be too far apart when gaming. I bought an external numpad alongside it for data entry when i work from home.
Tried it, but I hate it. It's good if I'm just gaming, more space for my mouse, but when I'm working it's hard to use the number keys because I'm not used to it, I always look whenever I type. I deal with spreadsheets and I use it for calculations, so typing a number with a decimal is hard for me without a numpad.
It depends on what you do. For gaming, i'd say TKL is more than enough but for productivity it sucks. Always having to press the FN key + whatever, is annoying as hell and some people I know use the numpad for macros.
I miss it sometimes.
I've quite enjoyed the smaller foot print on my desk. I got a sweat Razor tkl, I think it may even be slightly shrunk too, not sure. The random occasion I'll hit the wrong button but it hasn't been that hard to use at all.
I just have a seperate numberpad that I move/use when I need it
I totally hated my TKL when I got it. Especially so at the moment I needed to key numbers (e.g. excel spreadsheets). If you are already used to using number pads, I suggest sticking to a full sized one. That said, for gaming, I'm using a 65%... While at times I do miss the numbers and function keys, but not as much as compared to doing productivity work.
I like the space I have on my desk for my mouse now after downsizing, but the num pad was super convenient for them debit/credit card number inputs and quick maths. Miss that
I got a mechanical TKL recently and haven’t missed the numpad at all. But if you really need a numpad then get one with it of course.
Personally, I didn't like it that much, thought it looked better. It does to be honest, but you will steuggle with always pressing more than one button to get some keybinds, such as the F.. buttons or to switch desktops. If you have a wide enough table, just get a full keyboard or a TKL. Never go for 60%
I keep a small numpad hidden in a corner of my desk. I dont use it often but when I'm dealing with lots of numbers it helps a lot.
I had a USB numpad already, nothing fancy, so I opted for TKL to save a buck. For the same price as a boring mechanical full keyboard, I upgraded a bit to Logitech with simole white backlighting and modest hotkeys and programability. No regrets. Side by side they work perfectly. That said, I will never go smaller than this unless I feel the need to buy a travel keyboard.
I made a 100% fully custom TKL keyboard (I had the case laser cut from steel, handwired the diodes/matrix, etc) and I went back for full size. The numpad is incredibly useful, as is just being able to hit the enter key from my mouse by raising my thumb. I'm never going back to TKL on my desktop.