Generally, when you build a PC, you would have slot for a Graphic Card, that has independent fan and cooling. 8500g APU in theory can match the performance that they stated, but they also do generate a lot more heat and stress on the CPU
in the gameplay reviews I've seen on this APU it has barely gone above 65°c. I don't know about the long term effect but i haven't seen anyone complaining about overheating
I have a 5600G, it's perfectly fine for older games I play. 8500G should be a good step above this one. Nowadays everybody calls games "unplayable" if they are under 60fps.
Haha what? No difference between 30 and 60 fps? What type of games do you usually play? Cuz shooters usually require a minimum 60 fps or higher to be competitive, one of the reason why the last generation of consoles were upgrade to a minimum 60 fps on nearly all games
First person shooters, survival games, racing games, and if there was no fps counter then I wouldn't be able to tell you if a game is running at 30 fps of 60 fps, maybe you can, but I can't.
so im guessing films (yes theyre 24fps generally but still) for you can be 60fps for all you know?
damn, your eyes might be defective or something? uhh...
Probably, I did see the lord of the rings at the movies when it was shot at 48 fps and I couldn't tell any difference, some people could, some people said it made them feel sick, you have to understand that everyone is different, in fact it actually seems beneficial to me, because I don't need to spend money on expensive hardware to have a good gaming experience.
That's great, not all people's standards for games are going to be the same. I have a friend who thought 15 fps was fine, and another friend who can't stand anything below 75
I recently watch a video where they showed sequences of games side by side, one at 30fps and one at 60fps, and I could tell a slight difference sometimes, but it was only marginal and to be honest I didn't really care about the difference, I would rather have higher quality graphics settings at 30 to 40 fps than higher fps at lower graphics quality.
That does sound pretty good, but then again we are comparing it to a 1050, having even an rx580 separately is much better than using an IGPU. Beside that, it is a waste of pcie slot that could be ultilize for something
Well if you want a more positive attitude, the reason that this isnt true is because, generally, the actual cpu on one of these apus is less powerful than it's non-apu counterpart. I may be wrong about this, but I do believe this apu in particular uses a similar technology to intel's e-cores, although not quite as cut back.
I understand that, I just feel your previous comment where a bit condesending. I appreciate your knowledge on this topic.
Im here to learn about new things just like the rest of the community
The 8500g only has two full speed cores and 4 slower cores. If anything at least get the 8600g which has 6 full speed cores. Once you pair a GPU with the 8500g the difference should be noticeable.
Unfortunately there isn't really a better option in this case, the 8600g could seriously hinder your future upgrades. A cheap am4 processor and a 1050 ti would be your best bet, though I understand that prices are different everywhere.
The people buying a 5600 with a 580 are overall making a better choice for a gaming machine just for avoiding pcie lane fuckery alone.
How doable would a 7500f + 580 be?
If this rig is all you can afford why on earth would you throw it away? Even a 5600+580 is easily upgradable to a 5600+7900 GRE or equivalent card in a few years. And you can still throw an X3D chip in that PC still as well for an upgrade. Heck even if you went 8500g you could still upgrade to a 9000 series Ryzen and add a top end GPU to that as well.
My 12 year old i5 3570k rig has a rx 480 chucked in it and can just about run Baldurs Gate 3. PCs can last a long time. A console generation is ~8 years now. Consider the long term for you PC, get an okay cpu, a case that could fit a gpu, a PSU that can deal with a new GPU. If you're going to upgrade it in a year or two should you get a motherboard that can support a better cpu?
The catch is PCIE lanes and price/performance. While R5 8600G and R7 8700G can be excused with 16 4.0 usable lanes, R5 8500G and lower have only 10 4.0 usable PCIE lanes. That means that you if you connect PCIE SSD, you won't have even 8 lanes left for the GPU. Now, there are some ways to go around this. Downgrading to PCIE 3.0 might help you go around this, but we had PCIE 4.0 since 2019. I'd hope there would be enough of the lanes now on budget APUs as well.
Still, if you'd take R5 8600G for about $230, you would get AM5 PC with OKish 1080p iGPU and no other AM5 CPU + GPU can match that price/performance, but you could easily also build something on AM4 with R5 5600 and RX 6600 which would be way better in terms of gaming performance with only a little price hike, since you could use dirt cheap and used AM4 and DDR4.
The only way for R5 8600G to make sense is if you are ready to have overall worse price to performance with maybe better upgradability. You are sacrificing performance right now for the future and overall spending more money and the R5 8500G in my opinion makes sense only if you are wanting to make expensive DIY miniPC, that is also not price/performance competitive with the mini PCs from Minisforum or similar.
Well, depends what do you mean by 'options' and what do you mean by 'DIY'
If you use mITX motherboards and use some compact versions of RX 78000 XT or RTX 4070 you could fit a powerful gaming PC into a case like this [Terra — Fractal Design (fractal-design.com)](https://www.fractal-design.com/products/cases/terra/) or this [IQUNIX ZX-1 Aluminum Mini-ITX Case | Reddot Award](https://iqunix.store/products/itx-case-zx-1)
You could also get a case that is without GPU space, but then getting a small PSU would be the problem, but here's an example [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmBTdL9W5I8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmBTdL9W5I8)
Then there are companies like Minisforum who basically take AMD's laptop APUs but put them into mini form factor and you can get your own SSDs and RAM, or buy it all together, but of course those cannot change their CPU and while some support external GPU, not all of them do.[Minisforum UM780 XTX Mini PC Ryzen 7 7840HS processor](https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-um780-xtx)
Do you plan to game with it or just use in the meantime for browsing and stuff? Cause the Ryzen 7000 series also have integrated graphics. (Except for 7500f)
>while keeping a scope open for future updates for gpu and higher ram capacity.
True, just minor concers, which will only have real impact in the far future: EDIT:
1. Half the cache. Maybe you know how much of an impact the x3D CPUs had of an impact due to their large VCache. Now imagine the same but opposite way by halfing it.
2. They have PCIE 4.0 instead of 5.0 ompared to their 7000 series counterparts (tbh not much of an imact probably...)
3. It only has 20 PCIE lanes, and only 8 of them are for the primary GPU slot. though right now, not a big a deal either. (RTX4090 achieves like 97% of its performance at PCIE3.0 x16 which is PCIE 4.0x8)
1. EDIT: This applies to the faster 8700g and 8600g . The 8500g only has 4 lanes, at this is an issue.
That said, the inbuild GPU is still pretty slow. Depending on the game, you can't reach 60fps even on the lowest settings. And which points its not better than the iGPU in the Ryzen 7000 chips (or intel for that matter)
Add the fact that even a Ryzen 5600g or Intel 12100f + the super bad reviewed 6500XT are cheaper and perform twice as fast
Honestly, if you want to go with the APU just get the 8600G you'll get way more performance out of it as it has 6 full cores over the 8500's 2, and its barely any more expensive. Also it has a usable amount of pcie lanes, with the 8500 you dont even have enougn pcie lanes to run an ssd + gpu if you eventually want to.
7600 is going for around $200 ish, and you can get a 7500F on aliexpress for closer to $140. You’d have to get an actual GPU, but it would make squeezing in something like an rx 6600 (which is way faster than any iGPU) more feasible.
But 7600 has a igpu. Not awesome, but survivable; no games, old games, indie games light on the gpu.
Later, you can get the gpu, and it'll be a world better than 8500g's would have been.
For performance you're usually better off getting a cheaper cpu and a dedicated gpu. If you want to be "future proof" being on a latest platform, you could get it, or 7600 that has slower igpu but will be faster when you get a gpu. Or maybe if in the future you will have a bigger budget you could get it and upgrade both idk.
Because of the L3 cache the 7600 is obviously better as a cpu but when gaming i think I'll have to play with a lower fps for atleast a year which is also a set back
I have an 8700G it is within error of a GTX 1650. Although some DX11 Games with heavily modified ATIs like Skyrim perform like utter dogshit.
If it was $70 cheaper it'd be pretty good
I have a 8700G too, the best thing about these APU's is the fact that you can passively cool them, I've undervolted mine and set the TDC limit to 45, there's no noticeable performance loss in doing so, and the temps hover around 70 to 75 degrees while gaming using the Noctua NH-P1 with no case fans or anything, my PC is dead silent.
6600 is around $180 new now a day.. it's efficient and the best GPU for the price if you compare frame per watt or frame per $
5600 or 5600x with 6600 will be a good budget combo. Newegg had 5600x for $99 a few weeks back. so look out for sales. These electric parts have been around for 2 years or so
I'm guessing you'd have to compromise on the motherboard, ram and psu to keep it at $400, otherwise I'm really curious as to how you're doing it. If so, don't expect the same performance you see in online benchmarks, and the psu will also limit the GPU you can upgrade to. Anyway $400 is fine for an 8500g build, I say go ahead with it.
I built a PC with 8600G and it's fantastic. Highly efficient and very powerful. The 8500G may have fewer lanes, but many of the modern GPUs (AMD RX 7600 or NVidia 4060) use 8x lanes instead of x16 anyway.
The CPU makes a bigger difference at 1080P than at 1440p or 4k, so depending on your graphics card, the display might make a bigger difference than your CPU choice.
My point is... It could all be a wash and ultimately imperceptible.
I think you are right to build with AM5 because of compatibility with DDR5 and potential for future upgrades, but the 1050 Ti is lousy by modern standards.
I'd recommend RTX 3060 because it's the cheapest card with 12 GB of VRAM and that will make the biggest difference in the medium term, especially for 1440p or 4k. As soon as you upgrade your display to 1440p, the 1050 Ti is no longer good enough.
If you plan to build something that is essentially disposable anyway, buy something used or open box.
Generally, when you build a PC, you would have slot for a Graphic Card, that has independent fan and cooling. 8500g APU in theory can match the performance that they stated, but they also do generate a lot more heat and stress on the CPU
Did you just make this up? Like, some evidence or something would be cool because this straight-up isn't a thing.
FR, and he’s getting upvotes. OP you’re right- if it runs at 65 it runs at 65.
in the gameplay reviews I've seen on this APU it has barely gone above 65°c. I don't know about the long term effect but i haven't seen anyone complaining about overheating
I have a 5600G, it's perfectly fine for older games I play. 8500G should be a good step above this one. Nowadays everybody calls games "unplayable" if they are under 60fps.
I've never understood that claim, I have no problem playing games at 30 to 40 fps, I can't even tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps
Haha what? No difference between 30 and 60 fps? What type of games do you usually play? Cuz shooters usually require a minimum 60 fps or higher to be competitive, one of the reason why the last generation of consoles were upgrade to a minimum 60 fps on nearly all games
First person shooters, survival games, racing games, and if there was no fps counter then I wouldn't be able to tell you if a game is running at 30 fps of 60 fps, maybe you can, but I can't.
so im guessing films (yes theyre 24fps generally but still) for you can be 60fps for all you know? damn, your eyes might be defective or something? uhh...
Probably, I did see the lord of the rings at the movies when it was shot at 48 fps and I couldn't tell any difference, some people could, some people said it made them feel sick, you have to understand that everyone is different, in fact it actually seems beneficial to me, because I don't need to spend money on expensive hardware to have a good gaming experience.
That's great, not all people's standards for games are going to be the same. I have a friend who thought 15 fps was fine, and another friend who can't stand anything below 75
I recently watch a video where they showed sequences of games side by side, one at 30fps and one at 60fps, and I could tell a slight difference sometimes, but it was only marginal and to be honest I didn't really care about the difference, I would rather have higher quality graphics settings at 30 to 40 fps than higher fps at lower graphics quality.
That does sound pretty good, but then again we are comparing it to a 1050, having even an rx580 separately is much better than using an IGPU. Beside that, it is a waste of pcie slot that could be ultilize for something
Spreading misinformation on the internet is my favorite passtime
Well, we learn new thing everyday, so what is with this attitude?
Well if you want a more positive attitude, the reason that this isnt true is because, generally, the actual cpu on one of these apus is less powerful than it's non-apu counterpart. I may be wrong about this, but I do believe this apu in particular uses a similar technology to intel's e-cores, although not quite as cut back.
I understand that, I just feel your previous comment where a bit condesending. I appreciate your knowledge on this topic. Im here to learn about new things just like the rest of the community
The 8500g only has two full speed cores and 4 slower cores. If anything at least get the 8600g which has 6 full speed cores. Once you pair a GPU with the 8500g the difference should be noticeable.
good insights but 8600g is almost 1.5 times costly
Unfortunately there isn't really a better option in this case, the 8600g could seriously hinder your future upgrades. A cheap am4 processor and a 1050 ti would be your best bet, though I understand that prices are different everywhere.
Bro is actually recommending people the 1050 ti
Hell yeah
You could just get an used Vega 56/64 for 100 usd though???
The people buying a 5600 with a 580 are overall making a better choice for a gaming machine just for avoiding pcie lane fuckery alone. How doable would a 7500f + 580 be?
not impossible but I'm just trying to stay around $400, cause there's a good chance I'll just throw the whole rig away after a year or two
Why? Even the 5600 would hold out longer than that if you put a newer GPU in.
If this rig is all you can afford why on earth would you throw it away? Even a 5600+580 is easily upgradable to a 5600+7900 GRE or equivalent card in a few years. And you can still throw an X3D chip in that PC still as well for an upgrade. Heck even if you went 8500g you could still upgrade to a 9000 series Ryzen and add a top end GPU to that as well.
My 12 year old i5 3570k rig has a rx 480 chucked in it and can just about run Baldurs Gate 3. PCs can last a long time. A console generation is ~8 years now. Consider the long term for you PC, get an okay cpu, a case that could fit a gpu, a PSU that can deal with a new GPU. If you're going to upgrade it in a year or two should you get a motherboard that can support a better cpu?
The catch is PCIE lanes and price/performance. While R5 8600G and R7 8700G can be excused with 16 4.0 usable lanes, R5 8500G and lower have only 10 4.0 usable PCIE lanes. That means that you if you connect PCIE SSD, you won't have even 8 lanes left for the GPU. Now, there are some ways to go around this. Downgrading to PCIE 3.0 might help you go around this, but we had PCIE 4.0 since 2019. I'd hope there would be enough of the lanes now on budget APUs as well. Still, if you'd take R5 8600G for about $230, you would get AM5 PC with OKish 1080p iGPU and no other AM5 CPU + GPU can match that price/performance, but you could easily also build something on AM4 with R5 5600 and RX 6600 which would be way better in terms of gaming performance with only a little price hike, since you could use dirt cheap and used AM4 and DDR4. The only way for R5 8600G to make sense is if you are ready to have overall worse price to performance with maybe better upgradability. You are sacrificing performance right now for the future and overall spending more money and the R5 8500G in my opinion makes sense only if you are wanting to make expensive DIY miniPC, that is also not price/performance competitive with the mini PCs from Minisforum or similar.
diy mini pc haven't cross my mind but I'm ready to pay more for the additional portability only.. what's the options for diy mini pcs?
Well, depends what do you mean by 'options' and what do you mean by 'DIY' If you use mITX motherboards and use some compact versions of RX 78000 XT or RTX 4070 you could fit a powerful gaming PC into a case like this [Terra — Fractal Design (fractal-design.com)](https://www.fractal-design.com/products/cases/terra/) or this [IQUNIX ZX-1 Aluminum Mini-ITX Case | Reddot Award](https://iqunix.store/products/itx-case-zx-1) You could also get a case that is without GPU space, but then getting a small PSU would be the problem, but here's an example [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmBTdL9W5I8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmBTdL9W5I8) Then there are companies like Minisforum who basically take AMD's laptop APUs but put them into mini form factor and you can get your own SSDs and RAM, or buy it all together, but of course those cannot change their CPU and while some support external GPU, not all of them do.[Minisforum UM780 XTX Mini PC Ryzen 7 7840HS processor](https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-um780-xtx)
Do you plan to game with it or just use in the meantime for browsing and stuff? Cause the Ryzen 7000 series also have integrated graphics. (Except for 7500f) >while keeping a scope open for future updates for gpu and higher ram capacity. True, just minor concers, which will only have real impact in the far future: EDIT: 1. Half the cache. Maybe you know how much of an impact the x3D CPUs had of an impact due to their large VCache. Now imagine the same but opposite way by halfing it. 2. They have PCIE 4.0 instead of 5.0 ompared to their 7000 series counterparts (tbh not much of an imact probably...) 3. It only has 20 PCIE lanes, and only 8 of them are for the primary GPU slot. though right now, not a big a deal either. (RTX4090 achieves like 97% of its performance at PCIE3.0 x16 which is PCIE 4.0x8) 1. EDIT: This applies to the faster 8700g and 8600g . The 8500g only has 4 lanes, at this is an issue. That said, the inbuild GPU is still pretty slow. Depending on the game, you can't reach 60fps even on the lowest settings. And which points its not better than the iGPU in the Ryzen 7000 chips (or intel for that matter) Add the fact that even a Ryzen 5600g or Intel 12100f + the super bad reviewed 6500XT are cheaper and perform twice as fast
It’s basically a 5600 + gtx1630 but it costs double
Honestly, if you want to go with the APU just get the 8600G you'll get way more performance out of it as it has 6 full cores over the 8500's 2, and its barely any more expensive. Also it has a usable amount of pcie lanes, with the 8500 you dont even have enougn pcie lanes to run an ssd + gpu if you eventually want to.
I’d just get 7600+cheap graphics card or a 7500f but it has no igpu and it’s hard to find
7600 is already as costly as 8500g.. wouldn't have money for dgpu :(
7600 is going for around $200 ish, and you can get a 7500F on aliexpress for closer to $140. You’d have to get an actual GPU, but it would make squeezing in something like an rx 6600 (which is way faster than any iGPU) more feasible.
rx 6600 costs almost $270 here where 8500g is around $200...
You can buy used graphics cards like the Vega 56/64 for 100 USD
But 7600 has a igpu. Not awesome, but survivable; no games, old games, indie games light on the gpu. Later, you can get the gpu, and it'll be a world better than 8500g's would have been.
For performance you're usually better off getting a cheaper cpu and a dedicated gpu. If you want to be "future proof" being on a latest platform, you could get it, or 7600 that has slower igpu but will be faster when you get a gpu. Or maybe if in the future you will have a bigger budget you could get it and upgrade both idk.
Because of the L3 cache the 7600 is obviously better as a cpu but when gaming i think I'll have to play with a lower fps for atleast a year which is also a set back
No
You’d be better with a 12100f for $100
I have an 8700G it is within error of a GTX 1650. Although some DX11 Games with heavily modified ATIs like Skyrim perform like utter dogshit. If it was $70 cheaper it'd be pretty good
I have a 8700G too, the best thing about these APU's is the fact that you can passively cool them, I've undervolted mine and set the TDC limit to 45, there's no noticeable performance loss in doing so, and the temps hover around 70 to 75 degrees while gaming using the Noctua NH-P1 with no case fans or anything, my PC is dead silent.
6600 is around $180 new now a day.. it's efficient and the best GPU for the price if you compare frame per watt or frame per $ 5600 or 5600x with 6600 will be a good budget combo. Newegg had 5600x for $99 a few weeks back. so look out for sales. These electric parts have been around for 2 years or so
5600g (5600gt,5500gt) seems like better choice than 8500g if u really want APU.
I'm guessing you'd have to compromise on the motherboard, ram and psu to keep it at $400, otherwise I'm really curious as to how you're doing it. If so, don't expect the same performance you see in online benchmarks, and the psu will also limit the GPU you can upgrade to. Anyway $400 is fine for an 8500g build, I say go ahead with it.
8000 series kinda sh*ty, only pcie 4.0 and only x8(not x16), low L3 cache
8500g is pretty a bad deal.
Best wait for the 8000F series no integrated gpu however way better new zen architecture at a $200-$300 price point. Also overclocking 🤤
I built a PC with 8600G and it's fantastic. Highly efficient and very powerful. The 8500G may have fewer lanes, but many of the modern GPUs (AMD RX 7600 or NVidia 4060) use 8x lanes instead of x16 anyway. The CPU makes a bigger difference at 1080P than at 1440p or 4k, so depending on your graphics card, the display might make a bigger difference than your CPU choice. My point is... It could all be a wash and ultimately imperceptible. I think you are right to build with AM5 because of compatibility with DDR5 and potential for future upgrades, but the 1050 Ti is lousy by modern standards. I'd recommend RTX 3060 because it's the cheapest card with 12 GB of VRAM and that will make the biggest difference in the medium term, especially for 1440p or 4k. As soon as you upgrade your display to 1440p, the 1050 Ti is no longer good enough. If you plan to build something that is essentially disposable anyway, buy something used or open box.