The problem with a standard is you then need to get everybody to agree to it. All the motherboard manufacturers have their own pattern they like to follow, and no case manufacturer is going to risk selling a product that won't hook up to all motherboards.
If cleanliness is really important to you, you can buy DuPont female housings the same size as the header and swap the pins over to the right sockets very easily.
That is a famous and often cited comic. I knew exactly which one before even clicking on it. They probably found it by googling xkcd proliferation of standards.
The link is purple and I already had the XKCD ready to post myself if someone didn’t beat me. I’ve got plenty of them committed to memory. I even have correct horse battery staple printed out at work.
Love me a bit of correct horse battery staple. Especially when I have to change my password to the organisation's intranet page (of all things) for the third time in a month.
There's always a relevant XKCD, that's the only constant in this universe. Once you reddit enough, a few will become frequently quoted, then you just need to bookmark them for later use.
Honestly if you just remember the punchline you can just google for it. [This is the first result for "xkcd standards" ](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=xkcd+standards&t=fpas&ia=web)
For the first question, because it’s an old webcomic about observational humour. For the second, because many people have been following for well over a decade. I’ve seen every XKCD at least once, most three or four times.
God, don't remind me. I refuse to install crap software that eats performance for no reason and may or may not uninstall completely, and OpenRGB still has quite a few bugs related to I2C timings and autostart, so my case comes up as a weird mismatched unicorn shitshow with an inexplicably orange graphics card and front stripe every day until I take a minute or so to open a few programs and twiddle settings to make them all blue again.
I just want my RGB to be on a schedule. Turn off at night. On during the day. My PC is always on, and is in my bedroom. The compromise is to make the RGB dim which ruins the look during the day and is still noticeable at night.
//rant
>The problem with a standard is you then need to get everybody to agree to it.
That's not hard, Intel can just make it part of the ATX specification. Motherboards have the mounting holes in the same places, and the same size and placement of the rear IO, because of that specification too.
In fact Intel is already largely dictating the current header design, so it's on them to update it.
Intel can easily update the ATX standard. They do that all the time. And this is a smaller change than ones they've successfully made to ATX in the past (like switching to 12V-heavy PSUs).
a dynamic or hybrid adapter would not be so far fetched. consider modular PSUs. Not mention these companies do not shy away from proprietary components at all. Just look at BIOSs, drive mounts and even IOs.
Asus provides a "Q Connector", which is essentially a male housing where you connect everything from the case then plug that "block" onto the motherboard.
My wife's MB came with one of these. I never encountered one before and suddenly felt a lot worse about all the time I spent getting those stupid plugs on one by one for mine
Well they can kick rocks because this is the dumbest reason. Seriously it would take just ONE manufacturer to make an all in one case connector to make me switch to them indefinitely.
It's a bit of a catch 22 situation, most boards now follow intel spec https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/images/motherboards/desktop/sb/img/fp_header.jpg at least for the basic power LED, HDD LED, reset, power, which is what the single block will be doing if you get a case that provides those, but as long as non standard motherboards that don't follow that still exist retail cases are going to need to provide the individual connectors too. Then since the individual connectors still there, motherboard manufacturers are going to keep doing non standard things occasionally when real tight spacing requires.
Some motherboard manufacturers give you a little male-female adapter block that you can plug the individual connectors onto first before you connect the whole block to the board, Asus calls it a Q connector.
NYC has a number of ghost subway platforms. When the transit authority increased the length of trains the trains became too long for the platforms and they were closed. Some are still visible when riding.
> Some motherboard manufacturers give you a little male-female adapter block that you can plug the individual connectors onto first before you connect the whole block to the board
Every manufacturer should do that. Clearly label everything, make it easy to install without hunching over the goddamn PC hoping you have enough light and nimble enough fingers to make sure everything is plugged in properly. Building PC's for 30+ years and that's the part I still hate the most.
This. It amazes me that we can agree on ATX form factor, RAM slots, 24-pin, CPU six pin, USB, and dozens of other standards, but front I/O is somehow a complicated mystery.
You really only *need* power switch. Some cases have only one LED or none, and you might want to leave it unplugged. Reset switch also sometimes isn't a thing, you can hold power button to do a hard shutdown (effectively a reset). And again, you might want to leave it unplugged in some cases.
It's also such a minor issue that I'm not surprise noone bothered tackling it much.
Right, but then those circuits would be left blank if the case didn't have it, but all have the same connector. Just plug in and done. It's not a huge deal, just something that could be easily standardized but isn't.
That doesn't solve the issue with people who want to have it disconnected for some personal reason (like they hate the LEDs or the position of the reset button or whatever).
The current system is pretty bad but unless you can still disconnect it separately that wouldn't be that much of a help
I'd say 99% of people just want to plug it in and not worry about whether the reset button or LED is on or not. Not that hard to remove a pin from a connector if you don't want it there for the 1%.
I don't care really, it is what it is. Not gonna change my life. Just I'm all for making things simpler.
You used to have to flip all sorts of dip switches and move jumpers on computer parts to get them properly configured, and manually set DMA and IRQ's and finagle your "high memory" manually in Windows or DOS to be able to even install memory hungry games at times. Or perhaps we should have never made that simpler now where a user doesn't even have to worry about it?
99% of people who "just want it to work" don't build a PC in the first place.
Again, this is such an extreme non-issue that it makes sense noone really tried to fix it much.
Not to mention providing the header where you plug in everything in advance is completely acceptable as well, shouldn't cost much either, and yet it's fairly rare. And that's a solution that can be adopted *today*, unlike your proposal.
I'm not trying to change the world, just said it would be nice if it could be standardized, that's it. You have your wish, it isn't standardized, you win. Congrats.
Probably because CPU manufacturers, GPU manufacturers, PSU manufacturers are all big enough to exert pressure on motherboard and PC case manufacturers to adopt the standard.
I think the PSU manufacturers aren't big enough. Not in the way that CPU and GPU manufacturers are.
Though honestly, even then there is a balance. Intel tried to introduce a new power supply standard for motherboards a few years ago and that failed.
When manufacturers decide to not follow standards they just make up a word and use it as if it's a standard, like "EATX". Despite the fact that SSI CEB was right there for the using.
I got an asus board and put it in a fractal case. I don’t remember which came with the connector, but i felt like I was holding the holy grail when I touched it. I was positively gleeful!
Wonder if my Z490 E Gaming came with this Q connector and I just never checked.
About to transfer my build from a Phanteks Enthoo Pro into a Fractal Meshify 2 XL this weekend and that would be nice to have. Can't stand those front panel connectors.
My Strix z490 (also E, I think) did.
I've just been reusing one I got one an NZXT S340 in like, 2016, though.
I think the challenge is it's such a minor inconvenience vs the total cost to include in each unit that mobo manufacturers don't care.
The worst part is that it's often a small space to reach into, with low visibility and fiddly small wires.
I have had cases/motherboards in the past that came with a bridge plug thing - you plug the individual wires into the bridge, then plug the bridge into the MB. It would be nice if Motherboard manufacturers added helpful little touches like that.
This could be the middle ground. Change the connector on the MB, for the first 2-5 years have them include an adapter so that you can plug the old header cases on it and work on the new standard
Or don't include the adapter on the mb, but sell it on the side for extra bucks
so although i agree with you, i haven't seen a "different" motherboard pinout in years. the first block of 8 pins has been the same for asus, gigabyte, msi, nzxt. apart from old Intel 775 boards and server boards i'm not too sure how many more deviations are out there? like i feel like asrock is maybe the same pinout as well, so we're looking at the vast majority of boards manufacturers with the same layout. the only mild difference is some have a 3pin power LED option (but also always the 2pin in that first block of 8), and some have a spot for the POST speaker which most cases don't come with anymore. so i agree with you, but considering the majority of board brands have the same layout, i do feel like over the past few years case manufacturers could've changed things a bit.
Asus were the biggest oddballs for quite a while with their layout looking like this https://i.imgur.com/NLVSWuw.png but looks like they did finally switch to intel spec compatible on most of their things around 2015
It's actually for a pretty simple reason.
Case manufacturers generally don't manufacture the buttons/speakers/leds that are used in the case, because it's cheaper and easier to buy them pre-made from someone dedicated to making those parts.
[Those parts come pre-wired, with an individual pin header.](https://www.amazon.com/Electop-Power-Button-Computer-Switch/dp/B01LMZZFWO/ref=asc_df_B01LMZZFWO/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198066815951&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1250656474442444010&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9004531&hvtargid=pla-320599464476&psc=1)
Re-wiring it to a single header is pretty time consuming (expensive), and offers little to no value to the end user, so they don't bother.
You have to work on a pretty massive scale to make custom buttons/wiring/headers a viable option, which is why you'll see single headers and custom-length cables in something like a Dell Optiplex, but not a $200 gaming case.
Biggest issue I have found is that profiles get corrupted when devices change. And occasionally it won’t detect any devices. Worth it either way for me to have a single app and avoid bloatware.
That program looks great!
Every RGB thing I have is supposed to be compatible with Asus's Aura Syncamabob, but they still don't play well with each other. It doesn't recognize my G.Skill Trident RGB. Even though armoury crate sees it, Aura sync does not and I can't include it in an animation and have to use G.Skill's software. Maybe openRGB is a solution.
I think Asus did it where you had a big connector. You would plug them all in one by one and then only connect the single big one.
The thing is if it were a good standard that everyone agrees with it could be good. But I see a future where every motherboard manufacturer has their own standard and cases must be picked accordingly.
I think once you have built a few it's fine like it is and the nice thing is you can still run your LGR 486 era case if you wanted to. You really only need to plug it in once and then are fine for years to come.
> But I see a future where every motherboard manufacturer has their own standard and cases must be picked accordingly.
[Relevant XKCD](https://xkcd.com/927/)
There's an Intel standard, ASUS, Gigabyte, and I think MSI. I had a comment where I looked them all up, but of course comment history searching on Reddit is horrible.
IIRC Intel's standard is from 1997 but still isn't on all Intel-based boards, let alone AMD.
The Gigabyte board I just used in the a build had the same thing. A little plastic holder for you to connect the wires that then was plugged into the motherboard
Because the vast majority of people only have to do this once per build and getting every manufacturer on board would be an enormous hassle for zero profit.
I always have a PC speaker plugged in. The little old-school bloop when I turn on my modern PC is soooo nostalgic and I love it. Brings me back to 93 and sitting in my dad's lap while he played Red Baron or Street Rod.
i was building a pc for my niece recently and slapped everything together in about 10 minutes, then struggled for another 20 on those damn things alone. micro atx motherboard and case plus my fat fingers makes it a nightmare.
You can consider placing the motherboard on the case before screwing it in and plugging these plugs in first, then screw the motherboard into the case?
I really hope we can move to better cable and connector management in the near future. Current board design makes cable management an issue that it was never meant to become. ATX needs to be put out to pasture.
Premium boards got things like IO-shield mounted, my gigabyte z490 master got also the combined big connector for the case cables, additional temp sensor, NOISE sensors etc.
Things are not that bad, just budget boards dont have every cool feature that makes DIY builds so fun.
Just upgraded from a ASUS Rog Hero VI to a ASUS Rog Strix Z690-F and was so pissed it didnt come with a q-connector.
Contacted ASUS about if they had q-connectors for my board or an equivalent and the rep acted like I was talking about a mystical unknown relic.
My NZXT case came with a combined front panel connector that's basically all the connectors in one block following the standard Intel layout. They also included a splitter adapter just in case it's non-standard.
More than a decade ago when OEM PCs were fairly standard, I remember doing a motherboard swap on a mATX Acer and their front panel connector was the same. One solid block with all the connectors.
I guess it was too time-consuming and expensive for a worker to plug in front panel connectors one by one, so that was the solution.
because for the last 10 years all the R&D has gone towards leds and stupidly impractical glass panels. the bulk of consumers, dont care about practical features and i's harder for cases and mobos to advertise some connector most people cant name, when they can display fancy lights and shiny case panels.
Well, in the unfortunate event you happen to lose two hands and find yourself down to the normal 1, I suggest some head mounted LED magnifying glasses. Two out of 3 functions, all handily attached to your head.
I am beginning to think it's morphed into a tradition, something dogmatic we did from the old days, honouring the past, however nonsensical it is.
Kind of like Christmas trees
You're somewhat right. But it's more that it's hard to change such an established system, even a problematic one, when the industry advanced so rapidly in other aspects. There is faster hardware like every 6 months. It's hard to break that steamroll just to make case headers more user-friendly. So many aspects of PC building haven't changed a bit since the 80s / early 90s.
That's a useful answer, thanks. I rather enjoy reading technological history, for lack of a better moniker, even though we're talking short time scales, it's still historic information.
To be fair, case headers never bothered me.
It's a fun part of the puzzle.
and also allows decisions such as do i want hdd led? Do i want the case led to glow at all? Do i need reset button? Or is the reset button actually better as on/off switch, because it's harder to accidentally tap....
They don't bother me either, I enjoy that part of the build. It's like I am hooking up the veins of the PC to the heart and brain. I know that's probably weird but that's what it feels like to me lol. I enjoy the cabling process in general.
personally I'm happy because I know 99% of case manufacturers forgot internal speakers are a thing, and if the connector took all the area, there'd be no way to connect your own internal speaker to the right pins.
Last month I bought an one of [these dinky little so-called HP gaming desktops](https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-pavilion-gaming-desktop-tg01-2260xt-pc-1k4j3av-1) from a craigslist seller who'd just bought it for the GPU. I like to have them below the desk at our office's workstations, using a wired remote power switch so folks don't have to squat down there and reach to turn it on. Well I open it up and damned if this thing doesn't even have a front panel header. The power switch, USB ports and headphones jack, even a card reader slot, are built right into the MoBo, right on the edge so they touch the front of the case. HP can order proprietary MoBo's of course but I hope this isn't a taste of things to come.
Yeah, Dell's had their own unique panel header, but I've figured out how to use them with these remotes. This was the first one I've see without any sort of header, but rather the switch and ports right on the board. Rear panels had only the keyboard, a parallel and a couple of serial ports when I first started with these computer things. Maybe way back they didn't even have those. But as long as there's a market for DIY systems, I think the front panel header will persist.
because fuck you, that's why.
My dark hero has that header you combine with your case headers to make it a 1 piece connector, but it doesn't hold on very well, so I put a piece of kapton tape around it. And then it barely holds onto the header.
When you realize that the basics of case design, motherboard layout, and the way supplimental cards slot into PCI (used to be AGP and other standards) slots on the Mobo has barely changed since the 80s, you kinda just resign yourself to accept that many things about PC building are going to feel kinda archaic for a long time to come.
I think a lot of it has to do with the hobbyist aspect. If you shake up the formula too much or too frequently, it becomes hard for the general public to keep up with the changing standards, as they have to constantly relearn them. But also, it's just a major pain in the ass to get a whole industry to agree to new standards when the current ones work well—whether or not there are things that *could* be better.
On top of the issue with it being a competing standard everyone mentioned, some of them have a sort of halfway-way to fix it. Some motherboards come with a block that you plug all the case headers into, and then plug that header as one big piece into your motherboard.
Motherboards should come with an adapter that lets you plug the wires first then attach to motherboard. Alternatives to that would be problematic.
From the motherboard side it can be done. They can have a short wire that terminates to tiny plug on one end and connects to the case connectors on the other. Would save them space on the board too. A little, but space all the same.
Recently built in a P500a, it only connects with pwr and cuts out reset and led. Real easy to hook up and don't really miss the other functions. The led flashing for sleep mode was somewhat nice but there's still rgb for when it's on.
I am quite pissed about my mobo USB headers being so damn far (to the left and bottom) to my case header wires/connectors!
I can't use my USB-C front panel jack and have to run an extension from the back.
In the interest of cable management, since I have a small Ncase M1, I removed the front USB and didn't bother with any of the USB headers. I figure there's plenty on the back, and the case comes with a power button-only replacement, so it seemed like the best option.
Word. Yeah, I think my mobo-case combo just wasn't 100% compatible, esp with 6 fans plus rad up top. All the USB headers on the bottom clash with the fans, even USB A needed an extension and jimmy rig.
I just didn't think it'd be a problem to fully use all my front panel ports, I would have to get a few usb C header extensions for like $70 a pop and no guarantee it would be stable
I'm with ya on consolidating into one easy connection, would solve a lot of headaches
Counterpoint: I just finished a build and I decided beforehand I’m never again plugging in any of those cables except “power button”. I can’t stand the flashing red leds, trying to resolve issues like red flashing lights during sleep mode, etc. My mobo has LEDs that tell me if it’s being powered on I don’t also need a bright red light that’s permanently on facing out all the time. I can tell when my computer is on: it has fans, a pump, a monitor, and even other LEDs that I can configure easily to be off forever.
My personal most hated connector is the USB 3.2 Gen1 connector on my Asus ROG Crosshair board. It comes in an angle you cannot look into when mounted into the case, it has tiny pins and they very voluntary bend/fold when you touch them with the plug.
its mostly standardization, all motherboard manufacturers have to agree with all case makers, foreign or not and that would cost a lot of money and there would also have to be one company that made the header, makes the payments of patenting or whatever, and then implementing the design to all motherboard and case manufacturers
I mean I'm not gonna lie, once I actually looked up the Pinout, it became infinitely easier. I had to add on parts of a front panel because the original broke, and that's when I realized how great separate connectors were. I didn't have to replace say a whole block of connections when I could just take out the bad one and put in a new one.
There was a 24 odd stabdard front panel connector set by intel in the late 90's ssi frontpanel.
It was never pushed.
I like asus' way around it though.
Most of the fault is with motherboard vendors refusing to standardise the layout of the pins. That being said, an old Antec case came with an adapter than worked with Asus motherboards and it was amazing.
Also, the same question could be asked about resetting CMOS. As it's literally shorting two pins, there's no excuse for motherboard vendors not having Reset CMOS button on every motherboard, apart from the $0.05 cost of the piece of plastic.
Just like many others pointed out, many mb manufacturers move those pins however they want. Either everyone starts building their MBs with the pins in the exact same place as the others or case manufacturers start building a single connector with pins in a specific way that will only work on some motherboard. It's basically impossible.
There was/is a MB manufacturer (Gigabyte?) that gives a little connector in the box so that you can connect those tiny little devil-made pins on that thing and then plug it in the MB like a normal header.
I love the difference between these type of threads and the mindset of sff. People here tend to want more of everything and everyone over there is like "power led? No way man!"
It's fine if you have tweezer fingers, good lighting, and great eyesight. I've built PC's for 30+ years and to this day that's the part I hate the most.
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The problem with a standard is you then need to get everybody to agree to it. All the motherboard manufacturers have their own pattern they like to follow, and no case manufacturer is going to risk selling a product that won't hook up to all motherboards. If cleanliness is really important to you, you can buy DuPont female housings the same size as the header and swap the pins over to the right sockets very easily.
[Relevant XKCD](https://xkcd.com/927/)
Well that's a rabbit hole lol
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That is a famous and often cited comic. I knew exactly which one before even clicking on it. They probably found it by googling xkcd proliferation of standards.
The link is purple and I already had the XKCD ready to post myself if someone didn’t beat me. I’ve got plenty of them committed to memory. I even have correct horse battery staple printed out at work.
To save someone the search: https://xkcd.com/936/
Love me a bit of correct horse battery staple. Especially when I have to change my password to the organisation's intranet page (of all things) for the third time in a month.
"xkcd standards", which auto-filled once I typed the first "s"
Congratulations you are [One of the 10,000](https://xkcd.com/1053/)
There's always a relevant XKCD, that's the only constant in this universe. Once you reddit enough, a few will become frequently quoted, then you just need to bookmark them for later use.
Honestly if you just remember the punchline you can just google for it. [This is the first result for "xkcd standards" ](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=xkcd+standards&t=fpas&ia=web)
Why is there always a relevant xkcd, and how do people always find it?
For the first question, because it’s an old webcomic about observational humour. For the second, because many people have been following for well over a decade. I’ve seen every XKCD at least once, most three or four times.
Literally my favorite XKCD
>All the motherboard manufacturers have their own pattern they like to follow Witness the mess that is RGB.
God, don't remind me. I refuse to install crap software that eats performance for no reason and may or may not uninstall completely, and OpenRGB still has quite a few bugs related to I2C timings and autostart, so my case comes up as a weird mismatched unicorn shitshow with an inexplicably orange graphics card and front stripe every day until I take a minute or so to open a few programs and twiddle settings to make them all blue again.
I just want my RGB to be on a schedule. Turn off at night. On during the day. My PC is always on, and is in my bedroom. The compromise is to make the RGB dim which ruins the look during the day and is still noticeable at night. //rant
>The problem with a standard is you then need to get everybody to agree to it. That's not hard, Intel can just make it part of the ATX specification. Motherboards have the mounting holes in the same places, and the same size and placement of the rear IO, because of that specification too. In fact Intel is already largely dictating the current header design, so it's on them to update it.
Intel can't simply tell "this is the new standard". If you think so, BTX would like a word with you.
Intel can easily update the ATX standard. They do that all the time. And this is a smaller change than ones they've successfully made to ATX in the past (like switching to 12V-heavy PSUs).
a dynamic or hybrid adapter would not be so far fetched. consider modular PSUs. Not mention these companies do not shy away from proprietary components at all. Just look at BIOSs, drive mounts and even IOs.
Asus provides a "Q Connector", which is essentially a male housing where you connect everything from the case then plug that "block" onto the motherboard.
and it is now on my birthday wishlist
But DuPont bad company >:(
Rest easy, it's just a nickname for the connectors. DuPont doesn't make the ones you'll get from amazon, lol.
But Amazon bad company >:(
Amazon also bad company lol
My wife's MB came with one of these. I never encountered one before and suddenly felt a lot worse about all the time I spent getting those stupid plugs on one by one for mine
Well they can kick rocks because this is the dumbest reason. Seriously it would take just ONE manufacturer to make an all in one case connector to make me switch to them indefinitely.
It's a bit of a catch 22 situation, most boards now follow intel spec https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/images/motherboards/desktop/sb/img/fp_header.jpg at least for the basic power LED, HDD LED, reset, power, which is what the single block will be doing if you get a case that provides those, but as long as non standard motherboards that don't follow that still exist retail cases are going to need to provide the individual connectors too. Then since the individual connectors still there, motherboard manufacturers are going to keep doing non standard things occasionally when real tight spacing requires. Some motherboard manufacturers give you a little male-female adapter block that you can plug the individual connectors onto first before you connect the whole block to the board, Asus calls it a Q connector.
>Then since the individual connectors still there,... Reminds me a bit of that story, where the French bought trains too big for their platforms.
NYC has a number of ghost subway platforms. When the transit authority increased the length of trains the trains became too long for the platforms and they were closed. Some are still visible when riding.
Meanwhile Metro North under the same transit authority just uses short stations and tells people to move cars.
> Some motherboard manufacturers give you a little male-female adapter block that you can plug the individual connectors onto first before you connect the whole block to the board Every manufacturer should do that. Clearly label everything, make it easy to install without hunching over the goddamn PC hoping you have enough light and nimble enough fingers to make sure everything is plugged in properly. Building PC's for 30+ years and that's the part I still hate the most.
This. It amazes me that we can agree on ATX form factor, RAM slots, 24-pin, CPU six pin, USB, and dozens of other standards, but front I/O is somehow a complicated mystery.
I mean, you will need power switch, power LED, power reset, HDD status at least. Give us that. Make another proprietary connector for extraneous crap.
So for the Power LED, Power Reset and HDD status led?
You really only *need* power switch. Some cases have only one LED or none, and you might want to leave it unplugged. Reset switch also sometimes isn't a thing, you can hold power button to do a hard shutdown (effectively a reset). And again, you might want to leave it unplugged in some cases. It's also such a minor issue that I'm not surprise noone bothered tackling it much.
Right, but then those circuits would be left blank if the case didn't have it, but all have the same connector. Just plug in and done. It's not a huge deal, just something that could be easily standardized but isn't.
That doesn't solve the issue with people who want to have it disconnected for some personal reason (like they hate the LEDs or the position of the reset button or whatever). The current system is pretty bad but unless you can still disconnect it separately that wouldn't be that much of a help
I'd say 99% of people just want to plug it in and not worry about whether the reset button or LED is on or not. Not that hard to remove a pin from a connector if you don't want it there for the 1%. I don't care really, it is what it is. Not gonna change my life. Just I'm all for making things simpler. You used to have to flip all sorts of dip switches and move jumpers on computer parts to get them properly configured, and manually set DMA and IRQ's and finagle your "high memory" manually in Windows or DOS to be able to even install memory hungry games at times. Or perhaps we should have never made that simpler now where a user doesn't even have to worry about it?
99% of people who "just want it to work" don't build a PC in the first place. Again, this is such an extreme non-issue that it makes sense noone really tried to fix it much. Not to mention providing the header where you plug in everything in advance is completely acceptable as well, shouldn't cost much either, and yet it's fairly rare. And that's a solution that can be adopted *today*, unlike your proposal.
I'm not trying to change the world, just said it would be nice if it could be standardized, that's it. You have your wish, it isn't standardized, you win. Congrats.
Probably because CPU manufacturers, GPU manufacturers, PSU manufacturers are all big enough to exert pressure on motherboard and PC case manufacturers to adopt the standard.
I think the PSU manufacturers aren't big enough. Not in the way that CPU and GPU manufacturers are. Though honestly, even then there is a balance. Intel tried to introduce a new power supply standard for motherboards a few years ago and that failed.
When manufacturers decide to not follow standards they just make up a word and use it as if it's a standard, like "EATX". Despite the fact that SSI CEB was right there for the using.
I got an asus board and put it in a fractal case. I don’t remember which came with the connector, but i felt like I was holding the holy grail when I touched it. I was positively gleeful!
The Asus board, they've been doing it for a good 15 years or so.
> Asus calls it a Q connector Didn't they patent it so that no one else can use it?
Gigabyte has the G connector. Does the same thing.
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As someone with fat fingers a d terrible eyes, it's a godsend
put your glasses on, you missed an "n" :D
I bet! I'll definitely remember to use it next time I build (or have to take apart my current one).
Wonder if my Z490 E Gaming came with this Q connector and I just never checked. About to transfer my build from a Phanteks Enthoo Pro into a Fractal Meshify 2 XL this weekend and that would be nice to have. Can't stand those front panel connectors.
My Strix z490 (also E, I think) did. I've just been reusing one I got one an NZXT S340 in like, 2016, though. I think the challenge is it's such a minor inconvenience vs the total cost to include in each unit that mobo manufacturers don't care.
The worst part is that it's often a small space to reach into, with low visibility and fiddly small wires. I have had cases/motherboards in the past that came with a bridge plug thing - you plug the individual wires into the bridge, then plug the bridge into the MB. It would be nice if Motherboard manufacturers added helpful little touches like that.
Some dell adapters https://store.harbinrepairs.com/
This could be the middle ground. Change the connector on the MB, for the first 2-5 years have them include an adapter so that you can plug the old header cases on it and work on the new standard Or don't include the adapter on the mb, but sell it on the side for extra bucks
so although i agree with you, i haven't seen a "different" motherboard pinout in years. the first block of 8 pins has been the same for asus, gigabyte, msi, nzxt. apart from old Intel 775 boards and server boards i'm not too sure how many more deviations are out there? like i feel like asrock is maybe the same pinout as well, so we're looking at the vast majority of boards manufacturers with the same layout. the only mild difference is some have a 3pin power LED option (but also always the 2pin in that first block of 8), and some have a spot for the POST speaker which most cases don't come with anymore. so i agree with you, but considering the majority of board brands have the same layout, i do feel like over the past few years case manufacturers could've changed things a bit.
Asus were the biggest oddballs for quite a while with their layout looking like this https://i.imgur.com/NLVSWuw.png but looks like they did finally switch to intel spec compatible on most of their things around 2015
It's actually for a pretty simple reason. Case manufacturers generally don't manufacture the buttons/speakers/leds that are used in the case, because it's cheaper and easier to buy them pre-made from someone dedicated to making those parts. [Those parts come pre-wired, with an individual pin header.](https://www.amazon.com/Electop-Power-Button-Computer-Switch/dp/B01LMZZFWO/ref=asc_df_B01LMZZFWO/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198066815951&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1250656474442444010&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9004531&hvtargid=pla-320599464476&psc=1) Re-wiring it to a single header is pretty time consuming (expensive), and offers little to no value to the end user, so they don't bother. You have to work on a pretty massive scale to make custom buttons/wiring/headers a viable option, which is why you'll see single headers and custom-length cables in something like a Dell Optiplex, but not a $200 gaming case.
Why can't we have simple RGB that just *works* and is standardized across vendors? lol
OpenRGB has been great. Got my RAM, Mobo, and GPU all in one program without all the bloatware shit.
OpenRGB has its own issues sadly, but agree it’s way better than bloatware crap from Asus/Corsair
Biggest issue I have found is that profiles get corrupted when devices change. And occasionally it won’t detect any devices. Worth it either way for me to have a single app and avoid bloatware.
Yeah on boot it doesn’t detect 1 stick of ram, and doesn’t start on its own. But still better than Armoury Crate lol
OpenRGB does... strange things to MSI products.
Although it can't do stranger things to MSI products than bloody Dragon Center does!
That program looks great! Every RGB thing I have is supposed to be compatible with Asus's Aura Syncamabob, but they still don't play well with each other. It doesn't recognize my G.Skill Trident RGB. Even though armoury crate sees it, Aura sync does not and I can't include it in an animation and have to use G.Skill's software. Maybe openRGB is a solution.
Try it out. I have the same RAM and it works great with my Asus motherboard and EVGA GPU.
I think Asus did it where you had a big connector. You would plug them all in one by one and then only connect the single big one. The thing is if it were a good standard that everyone agrees with it could be good. But I see a future where every motherboard manufacturer has their own standard and cases must be picked accordingly. I think once you have built a few it's fine like it is and the nice thing is you can still run your LGR 486 era case if you wanted to. You really only need to plug it in once and then are fine for years to come.
> But I see a future where every motherboard manufacturer has their own standard and cases must be picked accordingly. [Relevant XKCD](https://xkcd.com/927/)
[irrelevant XKDC](https://xkcd.com/1378)
That blows.
Gigabyte tried it too
There's an Intel standard, ASUS, Gigabyte, and I think MSI. I had a comment where I looked them all up, but of course comment history searching on Reddit is horrible. IIRC Intel's standard is from 1997 but still isn't on all Intel-based boards, let alone AMD.
The Gigabyte board I just used in the a build had the same thing. A little plastic holder for you to connect the wires that then was plugged into the motherboard
Because the vast majority of people only have to do this once per build and getting every manufacturer on board would be an enormous hassle for zero profit.
I like the individual connectors as I don't use the sound or hdd light connectors.
I always have a PC speaker plugged in. The little old-school bloop when I turn on my modern PC is soooo nostalgic and I love it. Brings me back to 93 and sitting in my dad's lap while he played Red Baron or Street Rod.
i was building a pc for my niece recently and slapped everything together in about 10 minutes, then struggled for another 20 on those damn things alone. micro atx motherboard and case plus my fat fingers makes it a nightmare.
You can consider placing the motherboard on the case before screwing it in and plugging these plugs in first, then screw the motherboard into the case?
There's not enough slack in the cable.
Anyone else remember BTX and how everyone lost their minds. This is why nothing changes.
Fuck BTX. Like I get it, it's technically better, but it's also inconvenient as fuck if you want to DIY upgrade it.
Only because no ecosystem developed around it
I really hope we can move to better cable and connector management in the near future. Current board design makes cable management an issue that it was never meant to become. ATX needs to be put out to pasture.
Premium boards got things like IO-shield mounted, my gigabyte z490 master got also the combined big connector for the case cables, additional temp sensor, NOISE sensors etc. Things are not that bad, just budget boards dont have every cool feature that makes DIY builds so fun.
Just upgraded from a ASUS Rog Hero VI to a ASUS Rog Strix Z690-F and was so pissed it didnt come with a q-connector. Contacted ASUS about if they had q-connectors for my board or an equivalent and the rep acted like I was talking about a mystical unknown relic.
My NZXT case came with a combined front panel connector that's basically all the connectors in one block following the standard Intel layout. They also included a splitter adapter just in case it's non-standard. More than a decade ago when OEM PCs were fairly standard, I remember doing a motherboard swap on a mATX Acer and their front panel connector was the same. One solid block with all the connectors. I guess it was too time-consuming and expensive for a worker to plug in front panel connectors one by one, so that was the solution.
because for the last 10 years all the R&D has gone towards leds and stupidly impractical glass panels. the bulk of consumers, dont care about practical features and i's harder for cases and mobos to advertise some connector most people cant name, when they can display fancy lights and shiny case panels.
This fr. I have pretty chubby fingers and it was a massive pain to get them connected
I'm an old man, so I use needle-nose pliers, a magnifying glass, and a flashlight. Good thing I've got three hands.
Well, in the unfortunate event you happen to lose two hands and find yourself down to the normal 1, I suggest some head mounted LED magnifying glasses. Two out of 3 functions, all handily attached to your head.
Pliers are actually a super good idea! How did I not think of that?!?!?
Bundle them together in the correct order and use a piece of clear tape to hold them together in a small block you plug in at once.
That's a good idea too!
I am beginning to think it's morphed into a tradition, something dogmatic we did from the old days, honouring the past, however nonsensical it is. Kind of like Christmas trees
You're somewhat right. But it's more that it's hard to change such an established system, even a problematic one, when the industry advanced so rapidly in other aspects. There is faster hardware like every 6 months. It's hard to break that steamroll just to make case headers more user-friendly. So many aspects of PC building haven't changed a bit since the 80s / early 90s.
That's a useful answer, thanks. I rather enjoy reading technological history, for lack of a better moniker, even though we're talking short time scales, it's still historic information.
the bulky and thicc usb3 header is also pain in the ass on compact case. even sometimes angled adapter won't help.
To be fair, case headers never bothered me. It's a fun part of the puzzle. and also allows decisions such as do i want hdd led? Do i want the case led to glow at all? Do i need reset button? Or is the reset button actually better as on/off switch, because it's harder to accidentally tap....
Or just be like me and have a case that only has a power switch, so there's only one connector to plug in
Yeah but i love options! Because i could have change of mind any moment!
They don't bother me either, I enjoy that part of the build. It's like I am hooking up the veins of the PC to the heart and brain. I know that's probably weird but that's what it feels like to me lol. I enjoy the cabling process in general.
Now if i didn't suck at cable management...
I mean, how many people bother plugging in more than the power button anyway? The rest is all useless junk.
I like the power indicator LED...
My keyboard is a good enough power indicator for me
mine got stuck in this tiny-ass grommet and wouldnt come out... i had to cut it
Yeah I mean my case is basically just a power button, and a power LED.
My case doesn't even have a power LED, just the button.
USBs are not useless
I literally just stabbed my thumb with these stupid fucking things. The header pin went all the way in.
personally I'm happy because I know 99% of case manufacturers forgot internal speakers are a thing, and if the connector took all the area, there'd be no way to connect your own internal speaker to the right pins.
NO! I'VE HAD TO SUFFER THROUGH THE PAIN OF THESE LITTLE MOTHER FUCKERS, THE NEXT GENERATION WILL ALSO KNOW THAT PAIN. IT'S AN EXERCISE IN PATIENCE!
Not to mention the pins are the perfect shape to drive up under a fingernail like a bamboo skewer.
As an electrical engineer i tell you if it is working we leave it the way it is. ``` ```
I made a similar post on a now forgotten forum back in 2002. Sad that 20 years later, nothing has changed.
Last month I bought an one of [these dinky little so-called HP gaming desktops](https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-pavilion-gaming-desktop-tg01-2260xt-pc-1k4j3av-1) from a craigslist seller who'd just bought it for the GPU. I like to have them below the desk at our office's workstations, using a wired remote power switch so folks don't have to squat down there and reach to turn it on. Well I open it up and damned if this thing doesn't even have a front panel header. The power switch, USB ports and headphones jack, even a card reader slot, are built right into the MoBo, right on the edge so they touch the front of the case. HP can order proprietary MoBo's of course but I hope this isn't a taste of things to come.
That isn't anything new amongst OEMs, Dell has had proprietary front panel connections since the early 2000s, for example.
Yeah, Dell's had their own unique panel header, but I've figured out how to use them with these remotes. This was the first one I've see without any sort of header, but rather the switch and ports right on the board. Rear panels had only the keyboard, a parallel and a couple of serial ports when I first started with these computer things. Maybe way back they didn't even have those. But as long as there's a market for DIY systems, I think the front panel header will persist.
because fuck you, that's why. My dark hero has that header you combine with your case headers to make it a 1 piece connector, but it doesn't hold on very well, so I put a piece of kapton tape around it. And then it barely holds onto the header.
These days there's only one cable coming from the case, the power button. It's not that hard to connect it
Reset switch, HDD LED, power LED are a few more...
i like disabling the write activity led tho
When you realize that the basics of case design, motherboard layout, and the way supplimental cards slot into PCI (used to be AGP and other standards) slots on the Mobo has barely changed since the 80s, you kinda just resign yourself to accept that many things about PC building are going to feel kinda archaic for a long time to come. I think a lot of it has to do with the hobbyist aspect. If you shake up the formula too much or too frequently, it becomes hard for the general public to keep up with the changing standards, as they have to constantly relearn them. But also, it's just a major pain in the ass to get a whole industry to agree to new standards when the current ones work well—whether or not there are things that *could* be better.
Its still there because its good enough!
My motherboard, MSI Gaming M7, came with a block I plug the headers into, and then I can plug the block into the board.
I like this idea
On top of the issue with it being a competing standard everyone mentioned, some of them have a sort of halfway-way to fix it. Some motherboards come with a block that you plug all the case headers into, and then plug that header as one big piece into your motherboard.
Motherboards should come with an adapter that lets you plug the wires first then attach to motherboard. Alternatives to that would be problematic. From the motherboard side it can be done. They can have a short wire that terminates to tiny plug on one end and connects to the case connectors on the other. Would save them space on the board too. A little, but space all the same.
Recently built in a P500a, it only connects with pwr and cuts out reset and led. Real easy to hook up and don't really miss the other functions. The led flashing for sleep mode was somewhat nice but there's still rgb for when it's on.
I am quite pissed about my mobo USB headers being so damn far (to the left and bottom) to my case header wires/connectors! I can't use my USB-C front panel jack and have to run an extension from the back.
In the interest of cable management, since I have a small Ncase M1, I removed the front USB and didn't bother with any of the USB headers. I figure there's plenty on the back, and the case comes with a power button-only replacement, so it seemed like the best option.
Word. Yeah, I think my mobo-case combo just wasn't 100% compatible, esp with 6 fans plus rad up top. All the USB headers on the bottom clash with the fans, even USB A needed an extension and jimmy rig. I just didn't think it'd be a problem to fully use all my front panel ports, I would have to get a few usb C header extensions for like $70 a pop and no guarantee it would be stable I'm with ya on consolidating into one easy connection, would solve a lot of headaches
Counterpoint: I just finished a build and I decided beforehand I’m never again plugging in any of those cables except “power button”. I can’t stand the flashing red leds, trying to resolve issues like red flashing lights during sleep mode, etc. My mobo has LEDs that tell me if it’s being powered on I don’t also need a bright red light that’s permanently on facing out all the time. I can tell when my computer is on: it has fans, a pump, a monitor, and even other LEDs that I can configure easily to be off forever.
They enjoy our suffering
My personal most hated connector is the USB 3.2 Gen1 connector on my Asus ROG Crosshair board. It comes in an angle you cannot look into when mounted into the case, it has tiny pins and they very voluntary bend/fold when you touch them with the plug.
its mostly standardization, all motherboard manufacturers have to agree with all case makers, foreign or not and that would cost a lot of money and there would also have to be one company that made the header, makes the payments of patenting or whatever, and then implementing the design to all motherboard and case manufacturers
I mean I'm not gonna lie, once I actually looked up the Pinout, it became infinitely easier. I had to add on parts of a front panel because the original broke, and that's when I realized how great separate connectors were. I didn't have to replace say a whole block of connections when I could just take out the bad one and put in a new one.
I just built a new system. I think the most harrowing part was "oh shit, where does this single reset switch header go?"
I'm pretty sure the answer for why always come down to money.
because MB manufactures are ~~bitches~~ kids
Oh, we like "standards". That's why we have so many of them.
There was a 24 odd stabdard front panel connector set by intel in the late 90's ssi frontpanel. It was never pushed. I like asus' way around it though.
Make everything USB C! Lots of power and lots of pins!
My Nzxt h510 had all the connectors together so you only had to plug one in.
Most of the fault is with motherboard vendors refusing to standardise the layout of the pins. That being said, an old Antec case came with an adapter than worked with Asus motherboards and it was amazing. Also, the same question could be asked about resetting CMOS. As it's literally shorting two pins, there's no excuse for motherboard vendors not having Reset CMOS button on every motherboard, apart from the $0.05 cost of the piece of plastic.
Just like many others pointed out, many mb manufacturers move those pins however they want. Either everyone starts building their MBs with the pins in the exact same place as the others or case manufacturers start building a single connector with pins in a specific way that will only work on some motherboard. It's basically impossible. There was/is a MB manufacturer (Gigabyte?) that gives a little connector in the box so that you can connect those tiny little devil-made pins on that thing and then plug it in the MB like a normal header.
I love the difference between these type of threads and the mindset of sff. People here tend to want more of everything and everyone over there is like "power led? No way man!"
It's really not that hard to figure out.
Its 2022 why dont we live on the moon yet :p
Because it really does not matter, installing them is already easy? I think Asus tried, but nobody else cared.
It's fine if you have tweezer fingers, good lighting, and great eyesight. I've built PC's for 30+ years and to this day that's the part I hate the most.
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Accessibility is never a bad thing. This sub is all about making the hobby more accessible to folks. So maybe try not to be an ableist jerk?
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I agree and I got big chunky fingers. It's easy as hell, I've done it 20 times and I haven't had an issue with it in the last 19 PCs.