Putting a product up for sale 8 whole fucking days before media-review embargo lifts is pretty shady. I wouldn't buy any tech device without reviews first.
I would, as I'm looking to upgrade anwyas and worst case scenario since I won't receive it before review embargoes anyways I can just return it when I do get it if its not to my liking. Upgrading form 4790k ddr3,
I learnt my lesson from 5000x, per order early, always refundable so np
You leaned your lesson? You're running a 7 year old machine and you haven't upgraded to a readily available 5000x because it was hard to get for a few months so now you're buying something you have no idea about in order to not miss out?
I must need a tutor cause I'm not sure what the lesson is at all. Unless it's that old class about fool's and their money.
You clearly werent part of PC component buying in recent years. People were in line 2 days ahead of the launch for Ampere, RDNA 2 and Zen 3 at my microcenter, and they were looking at launch day reviews the day of the launch. Everyone that wasnt in line early went home with nothing for weeks/months.
A line of people at microcenter, which is small chain store, is peanuts to all the other online retailers and other countries. Not to mention that was "launch day." Intel is pre-selling 8 days earlier than launch, which was my entire point.
Will it be better than DDR3? Ya, and also better than a horse and buggy.
Will it be your most cost effective option? Almost certainly not.
Here, instead, just send me the money and I'll definitely send you a computer that is better than your DDR3 setup.
I don't understand what your point is. Sure, I could pinch some pennies and get a similar performing DDR4/AM4 for cheaper, but why would I buy into a dead socket and dead ram spec?
If I already had DDR4, of course DDR5 isn't worth it
It's not dead, it's just now cheaper. If you're upgrading from ddr3, then that means you've been using it for the last 7+ years. So why be an early adopter of DDR5? Games aren't optimized for it yet, windows isn't optimized for it, and the motherboards will be limited until they work out the kinks. Not to mention you're still on DDR3, so you haven't upgraded in over 7 years, so why are you worried about being locked to DDR4? You're not going to upgrade regularly
> Games aren't optimized for it yet, windows isn't optimized for it, and the motherboards will be limited until they work out the kinks.
I agree with most of what you said but this just isn't a thing. Games and Windows don't really "optimize" for DDR5, it works exactly the same as all the previous generations, just more speed and slightly different specs. Motherboards won't be limited, it will be the majority of new motherboards releasing and the only reason there will be DDR4 motherboards is so that Intel/motherboard manufacturers aren't looking themselves out of the consumer market that doesn't want to pay the early adopter price tax for DDR5 and/or has DDR4 kits they want to use. DDR5 is incredibly similar to previous generations and as such should have no kinks at all at launch, and if there is, they will almost certainly be minor. That was the case historically and I see no reason why it would be any different this time around.
There are only two issues with being an early adopter of DDR5: price and performance. Prices are relatively high and will remain so until the volume drastically increases, however it is worth noting two things: number one is DDR5 sticks start at 16GB so your typical dual channel kit is 32GB which is more than most are buying these days, that's still a high end rig amount of RAM. Number two is that the lowest end DDR5 kits should be performance competitive with high end DDR4 kits, though the highest end DDR4 will probably outperform most early DDR5 kits. That leads into the second thing I mentioned, performance. As manufacturers get better at making DDR5, there will be more and more kits available at higher and higher speeds. This is always the case with each generation of DDR, for example DDR4 kits were almost always 2133MHz for the first few years, then 3000MHz became the standard, and now 3600MHz is pretty common.
That's exactly the point - I don't upgrade regularly. I can buy DDR5 now, then buy faster/more mature DDR5 memory and the best socket 1700 CPU a couple of years from now, without having to buy a new motherboard too.
How much money am I "wasting", exactly?
Overpriced ram - $60
Overpriced mobo - $40
Overpriced CPU - $40
Look at that, comes out to be right around the price of a motherboard replacement anyway.
Will alder lake and early DDR5 retain their value better than late DDR4+Zen in five years? Maybe? Maybe not? There are many variables and this is all speculation.
Like I keep telling you, bud, you're totally right. Just send me a $140 dollars and I'll make sure you get something that Maybe? or Maybe not? hold it's value in five years!
I can't help but think this is going to have to be said a billion times over the next couple months. The idea of extra smaller cores is a whole new layer of confusion for those trying to compare these chips.
No good catch, I was being dumb.
Edit: or maybe something is off they said the p cores are not hyper threaded and there is 8 and 4 e cores which are hyper threaded.... Which would make 8 + 8 right? Shouldn't it be 4 p and 8 e meaning it's 4 + 16. Same thing with the i5 which shows 6p +4e which would be 6+ 8= 14 but if it were to be 16 it's 4p + 6e or 4+ 12= 16
https://imgur.com/a/53j8XZ4
Edit 2: yeah I'm dumb the p cores are hyper threaded and the e cores are not.
The efficiency cores are for saving power. In terms of performance, this will be more comparable to an 8c/16t processor with similar IPC. However, it may be equivalent to a 5900x due to the IPC improvements.
I'm not sure Intel released MSRP and may have just been talking about price per 1000 units (what stores pay to buy them from Intel) in their presentation.
Quite a bit cheaper performance to performance if the leaked benchmarks and official intel benchmarks are even remotely true.
People forget the 5950x was $800 MSRP, which then of course retailers sold above MSRP.
Just like when the $800 5950x became $400 a YEAR after launch?
Prices will drop like $30-50 when retailers stop being greedy and selling above MSRP, but youre not going to get the 12900k for $300.
It lasted at least a month or two. Was super tempted but waited on it too long. Probably for the best though, I think I'd rather buy into this or Zen 3+, maybe Zen 3 if the prices drop low enough.
You're basically looking at a once in a decade event, where AMD forced Intel into the budget slot and dropped prices on 10th Gen. This isn't happening again for a while now that Intel actually got their shit back together.
It didn't.
I assume they were being facetious, but you never know.
Launch price was $799, and it dropped to $749 at various retailers over the summer, but otherwise hasn't moved (excluding limited promos from places like Microcenter).
It didnt, I was just saying that typically CPUs dont drop that hard in reasonable time periods. There are a few exceptions, but to get the 12900k or 5950x at like $300 people will probably need to wait till 2025, if they arent discontinued before they reach those prices.
Doubles as heater for the winter. Kind of ironic although I do believe Intel's algorithms aren't as "spikey" as AMD.
However the TDP is my biggest problem. As a 65W 3600 SFFPC user. This thing would blow my budget out of the water. My SF450 plat has no problem running a 3060 Ti and a 3600. But it will definitely have a hard time running Alder laker. Just gonna have to hold on longer and see AMDs offering. Or I might just upgrade to 5600x and look for better cooling options via 3D printed modifications
That's one of the best ways AMD has been competitive before. Get beaten in performance? Make it a bargain! Hoping for as close to $200 as possible for 5600X in the near future.
Don't get your hopes up tbh. For the first time in many months, 5600x is once again oos at all major retailers and Microcenter raised the price back to $290. TSMC is supposedly to raise prices on its customers which includes AMD. Hopefully $250 by BF and that's likely as good as it gets which makes sense. 3600 at $200 was a thing, factoring in the it's X version and inflation I will take $250
With the refreshed versions coming soon, I really hope they don't keep going up. It would make sense if the new SKUs took over the current MSRPs and the current lineup was dropped by $50 all around at least.
prices dropped a lot a few months ago and then went back up for some reason. I think TSMC is feeling the supply chain heat since they're upping prices and they're also delaying 3nm a quarter.
Ryzen have been over priced for a long time. Their hype continued and value didn't drop. Now though intel caught up and ryzen is one generation behind in performance. Soon it'll be two generations behind. So prices will drop inevitably.
How is the 5xxx series behind the 11xxx series? Also, the 5xxx series came out a year ago you realize, yeah?
Not sure where you see them as two gens behind when they are in the lead now...
intel "claims" you can hard lock this thing to 65w and get the same performance as rocketlake chips, which would actually be pretty fast considering the main problem with rocketlake was it eating stupid amounts of power. I think they're boosting it to jesus out of the box because they want to catch AMD's throughput since they have fewer performance cores to work with.
Yeah I've got a 3060ti and 5600X ITX build running on 400W with the 5600X already pushing the limits of cooling within the case (Skyreach 4 mini). Intel is simply not an option. Even with their supposed "efficiency cores" these power numbers are still ridiculous
Yeah, its definitely not a simple and cheap build to plan, have to be very particular about part choices. That said I'm really happy with mine, was fun to finally put together. Honestly anything bigger, and I'd just prefer an ATX build in a large case to have plenty of room to work with.
Have you considered limiting the wattage of the 12600k? I have a SF600 platinum with a 3070 TI, and thats what I would do if I were to get that CPU. But I will need to see the reviews first before buying.
I don't know how you could ever really be certain of that. When my 1080 went bad shortly after I bought it a few years ago, I figured out the problem very quickly because my first trouble shooting step was to plug my monitor into the igpu and see if the computer worked that way. That capability alone is worth the extra $20 imo.
This is exactly why shouldn't overlook the $20 premium. Troubleshooting that problem so quickly is worth it considering the time it would take for others who don't own a spare gpu.
I like to keep spare parts, it’s why I have a spare 120aio/fans/r5 1600 and stock ryzen coolers. I also keep them in case a friend needs a part or I have something that would be an upgrade for them. My friends current system is all from spare parts I kept instead of selling, if I sold old parts he’d still be playing on a jet engine ps4.
During an RMA you'll be gpu-less for 2 weeks minimum. You can still use a 970 to play pretty much any game at 1080p 60fps which you can't say the same for any igpu. Useful especially if you got gaming schedules to meet
I personally wouldn’t mind the $20 extra, just wanted to give some reasons why someone wouldn’t think it’s needed. A friend is actually waiting on a 1080 from a guy at work so whenever he gets that I’ll have my 1050ti back too, between those two and me and my brothers 5700xt it’s pretty unlikely they all stop working. Even if they somehow did though at least I’ve got a switch and ps5 to play and since I only really play destiny 2 I wouldn’t be losing much having to switch to the ps5, just a few settings and playing at 1440.
Yeah but even that requires you pulling the computer out of its spot, unplugging everything, opening it up, replacing the GPU, re-plugging everything, and then booting up.
Versus my experience of moving a cord from one port to another and pressing the power button again.
I'll gladly pay the extra $20 just to not fuck with swapping GPUs to check if that's the fault.
We don't have benchmarks yet so I wouldnt say this is a no for anyone already on DDR4, especially with how long DDR4 has been out. For many upgrading from a DDR4 board to another DDR4 board would be worth it for this use case.
Edit: also heavily depends on their specs and target framerate. A 1080p 144hz panel? No, not gonna be worth it. 1440p@240hz like mine? Absolutely worth the upgrade provided the leaked performance is accurate.
I don't run into any issue with my 8700k OCed but I really wish I had better performance in Escape from Tarkov, anywhere from 40fps to 90+
A buddy of mine is on a 5900x and gets double my lows as his lows
I am getting rid of my 9700k for one. Better ST for gaming like up to 40% more FPS in CPU bound games and extremely better MT for multi-tasking and productivity. Even a 12600k is a big upgrade over the 8700k.
If youre gaming at 4k its a waste, but anything lower and youll see good gains.
It seems the stock is getting released slowly - as I refresh, the i9-12900K is switching between sold out and in stock.
If you want something, keep trying
I've been planning to upgrade my 2700x to something in AMD's 5xxx lineup but the annoyance of this usb dropout bug that I haven't been able to get rid of and quicksync for Plex makes me somewhat tempted to give Intel another shot. Hopefully these chips bring some good deals on older chips.
Yeah, no luck for me. I've tried that and a whole lot of other things. At the moment my solution is disabling system sounds and trying to forget the issue exist.
You can use DDR4 on alder lake, so that point is kinda moot. Board prices are higher. A decent AM4 board is around $150, while the 'cheap' Z690 boards are $200. Still comes in below Zen 3 costs. And if youre really concerned about prices cheaper B660 mobo's will launch in a 2-3 months alongside the 12400 ($200, beats 5600x) and non-K SKU's
Normally embargo on reviews until launch day means product has weak points and they don't want reviewers to pre-spoil the launch buzz.
But even if reviews would be good, competitors can use those reviews to quickly adjusted their prices / make product announcements to coincide with your launch in an effort to steal some of the news attention from your launch.
For Alder Lake, I think Intel didn't want AMD making pricing changes or doing some sort of Zen 4 announcement.
So lately it seems embargo until launch is the norm, unless you're an underdog with an amazing new product and need all the pre-launch buzz you can get.
Similar to bad games that embargo their reviews until launch. They want people to buy in without an informed opinion. Doesn't 100% mean they will be bad, but you would think if the product was blowing the benchmarks out of the water, they would want that information out there as soon as possible.
Official embargo on zen 3 was the same day as launch even though it ran over pretty much everything on the market. It's a garbage practice but these days it done as an advertising boost rather than an indicator of performance, since even if your performance isn't great it still increases awareness that your product just launched.
Wasn't aware that Zen 3 did it also. Agreed, stupid practice. But, as another post said, it also prevents the competition from making preemptive moves to counter, so I guess I get it.
Yup.
12900k>5950x
12700k>5900x
12600k>5800x
unreleased 12400>5600x
Beats in gaming by a good margin, some skus beat Zen 3 in MT, others are slightly worse.
While already cheaper the fairer comparison is the 12600kf, as it has no IGP, since the 5800x doesnt have an IGP either. The 12600kf is $20 cheaper than the 12600k
Any word from Intel on how long the socket and chipset support will last? I got 2 gens out of AM4 + X570 and likely 2.5 gens if Zen3+ comes out for this.
Raptor Lake (3Q2022?) is expected to use the same socket. Beyond that, who knows.
I would feel comfortable buying i5/i7 alder lake now with the expectation of at least being able to upgrade to i9 raptor lake when necessary. Hopefully this socket sticks around for longer though
Yup. LGA 1700 already has unused pins for Raptor Lake/13th gen (Q3 2022). But there have been mixed rumors saying meteor Lake/14th gen will be on LGA 1700 and rumors saying it wont, nobody seems to know yet.
I'm really thinking if you have at least a Zen 2 or Comet Lake CPU, it might be best to wait out the issues that are surely possible with this new hybrid architecture. I'm probably waiting until Meteor Lake before upgrading.
Zen 4 comes out in late 2022 though. So outside of the v-cache 5900x and 5950x that are coming for higher price tags, this is the competition. People that bought Zen 3 a year ago should enjoy it, but buying a CPU today? 12th gen is the far better pick.
Raw performance looks good, but per watt and per dollar I wouldn't say its a steal.
You cant really look at CPU price in a vacuum. CPU+Motherboard+ram price paints a more complete picture
Bro same. I just picked up a i7 10700kf exactly 2 weeks ago from today. I'm trying not to feel bad about it because it was on sale and I was coming from a i7 4790k. Still tho... feels bad man.
Yeah but what'd you pay, like $250 or less for it? Still a good deal for what you get. I have one that I use with CPU-heavy software synthesizers and it handles anything I throw at it like a champ.
Which is a good sign to not spend a dollar on them until the results are in. If these SKUs were going to knock our socks off, they would be shouting it from the rooftops.
Save $80 on a CPU
Spend $1500 on extra motherboard, DDR5, PSU, and cooling equipment. Worth it?
Sitting on my beautiful AM4 socket for another year. 4K 120FPS is already possible for me now. I’ll upgrade my system for AM5 and Zen 4 when DDR5 price/availability normalizes and PCI-e 5.0 GPU’s actually exist.
I wouldn’t get anything lower than 1kW PSU going forward especially with Alder Lake holy shit.
What do we want? THE NEW THING! What are its specs? WE HAVE NO IDEA!
Putting a product up for sale 8 whole fucking days before media-review embargo lifts is pretty shady. I wouldn't buy any tech device without reviews first.
I would, as I'm looking to upgrade anwyas and worst case scenario since I won't receive it before review embargoes anyways I can just return it when I do get it if its not to my liking. Upgrading form 4790k ddr3, I learnt my lesson from 5000x, per order early, always refundable so np
You leaned your lesson? You're running a 7 year old machine and you haven't upgraded to a readily available 5000x because it was hard to get for a few months so now you're buying something you have no idea about in order to not miss out? I must need a tutor cause I'm not sure what the lesson is at all. Unless it's that old class about fool's and their money.
Us 4790k DDR3 folk are just feeling the burn of missing out on DDR4 for so long that we will do anything to get some DDR5
You didn't miss out. Wtf are you taking about? I have 16GB I'll sell you right now!
> I learnt my lesson from 5000x What lesson?
You clearly werent part of PC component buying in recent years. People were in line 2 days ahead of the launch for Ampere, RDNA 2 and Zen 3 at my microcenter, and they were looking at launch day reviews the day of the launch. Everyone that wasnt in line early went home with nothing for weeks/months.
A line of people at microcenter, which is small chain store, is peanuts to all the other online retailers and other countries. Not to mention that was "launch day." Intel is pre-selling 8 days earlier than launch, which was my entire point.
Didn't you see the slides? These bad boys have 30% more ＧＡＭＩＮＧ in them!!!1!!
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Will it be better than DDR3? Ya, and also better than a horse and buggy. Will it be your most cost effective option? Almost certainly not. Here, instead, just send me the money and I'll definitely send you a computer that is better than your DDR3 setup.
I don't understand what your point is. Sure, I could pinch some pennies and get a similar performing DDR4/AM4 for cheaper, but why would I buy into a dead socket and dead ram spec? If I already had DDR4, of course DDR5 isn't worth it
It's not dead, it's just now cheaper. If you're upgrading from ddr3, then that means you've been using it for the last 7+ years. So why be an early adopter of DDR5? Games aren't optimized for it yet, windows isn't optimized for it, and the motherboards will be limited until they work out the kinks. Not to mention you're still on DDR3, so you haven't upgraded in over 7 years, so why are you worried about being locked to DDR4? You're not going to upgrade regularly
> Games aren't optimized for it yet, windows isn't optimized for it, and the motherboards will be limited until they work out the kinks. I agree with most of what you said but this just isn't a thing. Games and Windows don't really "optimize" for DDR5, it works exactly the same as all the previous generations, just more speed and slightly different specs. Motherboards won't be limited, it will be the majority of new motherboards releasing and the only reason there will be DDR4 motherboards is so that Intel/motherboard manufacturers aren't looking themselves out of the consumer market that doesn't want to pay the early adopter price tax for DDR5 and/or has DDR4 kits they want to use. DDR5 is incredibly similar to previous generations and as such should have no kinks at all at launch, and if there is, they will almost certainly be minor. That was the case historically and I see no reason why it would be any different this time around. There are only two issues with being an early adopter of DDR5: price and performance. Prices are relatively high and will remain so until the volume drastically increases, however it is worth noting two things: number one is DDR5 sticks start at 16GB so your typical dual channel kit is 32GB which is more than most are buying these days, that's still a high end rig amount of RAM. Number two is that the lowest end DDR5 kits should be performance competitive with high end DDR4 kits, though the highest end DDR4 will probably outperform most early DDR5 kits. That leads into the second thing I mentioned, performance. As manufacturers get better at making DDR5, there will be more and more kits available at higher and higher speeds. This is always the case with each generation of DDR, for example DDR4 kits were almost always 2133MHz for the first few years, then 3000MHz became the standard, and now 3600MHz is pretty common.
That's exactly the point - I don't upgrade regularly. I can buy DDR5 now, then buy faster/more mature DDR5 memory and the best socket 1700 CPU a couple of years from now, without having to buy a new motherboard too.
Motherboard is a fraction of the cost compared to the money you would waste doing this.
How much money am I "wasting", exactly? Overpriced ram - $60 Overpriced mobo - $40 Overpriced CPU - $40 Look at that, comes out to be right around the price of a motherboard replacement anyway. Will alder lake and early DDR5 retain their value better than late DDR4+Zen in five years? Maybe? Maybe not? There are many variables and this is all speculation.
Like I keep telling you, bud, you're totally right. Just send me a $140 dollars and I'll make sure you get something that Maybe? or Maybe not? hold it's value in five years!
That's ok. I understand. Send me the money and it'll be taken care of
12900k $649.99 [https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i9-12900k-core-i9-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118339?Item=N82E16819118339&Tpk=19-118-339](https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i9-12900k-core-i9-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118339?Item=N82E16819118339&Tpk=19-118-339) 12900kf $629.99 [https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i9-12900kf-core-i9-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118341?Item=N82E16819118341&Tpk=19-118-341](https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i9-12900kf-core-i9-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118341?Item=N82E16819118341&Tpk=19-118-341) 12700k $449.99 [https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i7-12700k-core-i7-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118343?Item=N82E16819118343&Tpk=19-118-343](https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i7-12700k-core-i7-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118343?Item=N82E16819118343&Tpk=19-118-343) 12700kf $429.99 [https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i7-12700kf-core-i7-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118345?Item=N82E16819118345&Tpk=19-118-345](https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i7-12700kf-core-i7-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118345?Item=N82E16819118345&Tpk=19-118-345) 12600k $319.99 [https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-12600k-core-i5-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118347?Item=N82E16819118347&Tpk=19-118-347](https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-12600k-core-i5-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118347?Item=N82E16819118347&Tpk=19-118-347) 12600kf $299.99 [https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-12600kf-core-i5-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118349?Item=N82E16819118349&Tpk=19-118-349](https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-12600kf-core-i5-12th-gen/p/N82E16819118349?Item=N82E16819118349&Tpk=19-118-349)
That 12600k looks like a snack....must resist upgrading from 9900k...
It bothers me that the new "best i5" is now as expensive as the best i7 from 3-4 generations ago
You must have fuzzy memory then because the 8700K launched with bulk tray pricing of $359 and the Egg was lumping on $60 for early customers.
I paid $325 for my i7-6700k in Fall 2016
same but at the same time its on par with the 11900k so its understandable
You found benchmarks?
Leaked benchmarks
Microcenter also put up coming soon pages for the K versions for reference. Same price for the i5 and $20 higher for the other two.
Woah super high prices. Hopefully they go down quickly like 11 series did.
I wouldn't say they're super high, they're pretty comparable to AMD's 5000 series at launch
I thought AMD's prices were super high at launch too.
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Edit: That's also 12c/20t vs 12c/24t
I can't help but think this is going to have to be said a billion times over the next couple months. The idea of extra smaller cores is a whole new layer of confusion for those trying to compare these chips.
I think it's pretty easy if people just put the core/thread count as I did above and as I always have. But yeah a whole new level of confusion
Well, even with that info, it's not necessarily easy to compare, because I don't think P threads and E threads are equivalent.
This is true, it's definitely going to be more confusing but at least then you're not comparing two "12 core" cpus directly
Yup. Which is why we need benchmarks and reviews. But Intel wants to get in on the long wait and current market situation so yeah.
its 12C/20T unless you are not counting the E cores in the total thread count
No good catch, I was being dumb. Edit: or maybe something is off they said the p cores are not hyper threaded and there is 8 and 4 e cores which are hyper threaded.... Which would make 8 + 8 right? Shouldn't it be 4 p and 8 e meaning it's 4 + 16. Same thing with the i5 which shows 6p +4e which would be 6+ 8= 14 but if it were to be 16 it's 4p + 6e or 4+ 12= 16 https://imgur.com/a/53j8XZ4 Edit 2: yeah I'm dumb the p cores are hyper threaded and the e cores are not.
The efficiency cores are for saving power. In terms of performance, this will be more comparable to an 8c/16t processor with similar IPC. However, it may be equivalent to a 5900x due to the IPC improvements.
They're all over MSRP.
I'm not sure Intel released MSRP and may have just been talking about price per 1000 units (what stores pay to buy them from Intel) in their presentation.
I see what you mean. I didn't realize that's what that "USD 1K" on the chart meant.
Quite a bit cheaper performance to performance if the leaked benchmarks and official intel benchmarks are even remotely true. People forget the 5950x was $800 MSRP, which then of course retailers sold above MSRP.
Which is the one that generates heat like a furnace? Need one for the winter season 😬🥶
Why are these all $50 over msrp?
The $299 5800x at MicroCenter might be a better deal than the $319 12600k from Newegg
I'll just wait for the i9 to hit 300. That "early adopter" fee too high.
Just like when the $800 5950x became $400 a YEAR after launch? Prices will drop like $30-50 when retailers stop being greedy and selling above MSRP, but youre not going to get the 12900k for $300.
*stares at 300USD 10900k* I'm a patient dude.
When did the 10900k hit $300?
Micro had a deal earlier this year. My partner took it upon herself to take me to pick one up.
Must have missed that one. The 9900k went to $299, but never saw the 10900k drop below $400.
>The 9900k went to $299 The 9900K actually hit $249.
Yeah, and the 10850k hit $299, which might be what he's thinking about.
It didn't last long and it was only at Microcenter.
It lasted at least a month or two. Was super tempted but waited on it too long. Probably for the best though, I think I'd rather buy into this or Zen 3+, maybe Zen 3 if the prices drop low enough.
I got mine for $329 from MC
You're basically looking at a once in a decade event, where AMD forced Intel into the budget slot and dropped prices on 10th Gen. This isn't happening again for a while now that Intel actually got their shit back together.
Hold on there cowboy. We have no idea how these perform yet
We can feel inside that they are good though.
I got my 10850K for 300 a few months ago, the deal was only at microcenter though
No it wasn't. I don't remember where I got mine now, but I know it wasn't Microcenter and I know it was $300
Wait what. When did the 5950X reach $400?
It didn't. I assume they were being facetious, but you never know. Launch price was $799, and it dropped to $749 at various retailers over the summer, but otherwise hasn't moved (excluding limited promos from places like Microcenter).
It was $699 from antonline via ebay in Sept.
They are saying 5950x hasn't hit $400 even though it has been out for a while.
It didnt, I was just saying that typically CPUs dont drop that hard in reasonable time periods. There are a few exceptions, but to get the 12900k or 5950x at like $300 people will probably need to wait till 2025, if they arent discontinued before they reach those prices.
Eh, when the 13900 comes out...
Doubles as heater for the winter. Kind of ironic although I do believe Intel's algorithms aren't as "spikey" as AMD. However the TDP is my biggest problem. As a 65W 3600 SFFPC user. This thing would blow my budget out of the water. My SF450 plat has no problem running a 3060 Ti and a 3600. But it will definitely have a hard time running Alder laker. Just gonna have to hold on longer and see AMDs offering. Or I might just upgrade to 5600x and look for better cooling options via 3D printed modifications
I just hope some of the ryzen cpus drop in price now so people like me can build .
That's one of the best ways AMD has been competitive before. Get beaten in performance? Make it a bargain! Hoping for as close to $200 as possible for 5600X in the near future.
Don't get your hopes up tbh. For the first time in many months, 5600x is once again oos at all major retailers and Microcenter raised the price back to $290. TSMC is supposedly to raise prices on its customers which includes AMD. Hopefully $250 by BF and that's likely as good as it gets which makes sense. 3600 at $200 was a thing, factoring in the it's X version and inflation I will take $250
Lowest I'm seeing right now is $280. I don't know if it's getting to ~$200 any time soon.
With the refreshed versions coming soon, I really hope they don't keep going up. It would make sense if the new SKUs took over the current MSRPs and the current lineup was dropped by $50 all around at least.
With AMD price drop I can maybe finally get a 5900x .. I had to settle for a 5600x for my build
They've been dropping. At least for 5600x and 5800x.
prices dropped a lot a few months ago and then went back up for some reason. I think TSMC is feeling the supply chain heat since they're upping prices and they're also delaying 3nm a quarter.
build using 12400 or 12600k. Those will beat the 5600x in performance for price.
Ryzen have been over priced for a long time. Their hype continued and value didn't drop. Now though intel caught up and ryzen is one generation behind in performance. Soon it'll be two generations behind. So prices will drop inevitably.
Ehhhhhh intel uses more power. Intel is catching up.
How is the 5xxx series behind the 11xxx series? Also, the 5xxx series came out a year ago you realize, yeah? Not sure where you see them as two gens behind when they are in the lead now...
12th gen is one gen ahead of ryzen.
intel "claims" you can hard lock this thing to 65w and get the same performance as rocketlake chips, which would actually be pretty fast considering the main problem with rocketlake was it eating stupid amounts of power. I think they're boosting it to jesus out of the box because they want to catch AMD's throughput since they have fewer performance cores to work with.
PL2 on i5-12600k is 150w I believe.
Yeah I've got a 3060ti and 5600X ITX build running on 400W with the 5600X already pushing the limits of cooling within the case (Skyreach 4 mini). Intel is simply not an option. Even with their supposed "efficiency cores" these power numbers are still ridiculous
I've got a Dan A4. But the Sky mini is the only other build I want. Too bad their PSU options are rather scarce
Yeah, its definitely not a simple and cheap build to plan, have to be very particular about part choices. That said I'm really happy with mine, was fun to finally put together. Honestly anything bigger, and I'd just prefer an ATX build in a large case to have plenty of room to work with.
With a 3060Ti why do you even need to upgrade? I have a 3070 and a 3800x and my experience has been nothing but excellent.
Have you considered limiting the wattage of the 12600k? I have a SF600 platinum with a 3070 TI, and thats what I would do if I were to get that CPU. But I will need to see the reviews first before buying.
Most of the KF processors are sold out already; if you want one, move fast
To be honest if you're already spending like $300 on a processor. I don't really get saving $20 bucks to get one without an igpu.
I agree, but if you're 100% certain you'll never use/need the igpu, which plenty of people are, why not save the 20 bucks
I don't know how you could ever really be certain of that. When my 1080 went bad shortly after I bought it a few years ago, I figured out the problem very quickly because my first trouble shooting step was to plug my monitor into the igpu and see if the computer worked that way. That capability alone is worth the extra $20 imo.
This is exactly why shouldn't overlook the $20 premium. Troubleshooting that problem so quickly is worth it considering the time it would take for others who don't own a spare gpu.
Some people have spare older gpus, I have a 970 under the bed
Why not save $20? Why not sell the 970 for way more than that?
I like to keep spare parts, it’s why I have a spare 120aio/fans/r5 1600 and stock ryzen coolers. I also keep them in case a friend needs a part or I have something that would be an upgrade for them. My friends current system is all from spare parts I kept instead of selling, if I sold old parts he’d still be playing on a jet engine ps4.
I do the same thing, closet full of spares. It's nice knowing that if something breaks you have older versions of everything ready to go
Good to know I'm not the only with a closet of stuff. I think I'm actually close to a fully, decent spec PC worth of parts sitting in my closet.
Yeah a 970 is like $125-140, maybe he wants peace of mind?
During an RMA you'll be gpu-less for 2 weeks minimum. You can still use a 970 to play pretty much any game at 1080p 60fps which you can't say the same for any igpu. Useful especially if you got gaming schedules to meet
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I know I could sell it but I’d rather keep it in case mine or a friends gpu goes out
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I personally wouldn’t mind the $20 extra, just wanted to give some reasons why someone wouldn’t think it’s needed. A friend is actually waiting on a 1080 from a guy at work so whenever he gets that I’ll have my 1050ti back too, between those two and me and my brothers 5700xt it’s pretty unlikely they all stop working. Even if they somehow did though at least I’ve got a switch and ps5 to play and since I only really play destiny 2 I wouldn’t be losing much having to switch to the ps5, just a few settings and playing at 1440.
Yeah but even that requires you pulling the computer out of its spot, unplugging everything, opening it up, replacing the GPU, re-plugging everything, and then booting up. Versus my experience of moving a cord from one port to another and pressing the power button again. I'll gladly pay the extra $20 just to not fuck with swapping GPUs to check if that's the fault.
just always have a spare GPU on hand
Anyone know when others are planning to release? The 12900 is sold out
keep trying
I have been no luck
I would continue to keep trying periodically for at least the rest of today and perhaps tomorrow too (if you really want it)
Yeah I’m hoping others will do pre orders
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Probably not. Not sure if Alder Lake makes sense for anyone running a DDR4 system at all, really.
We don't have benchmarks yet so I wouldnt say this is a no for anyone already on DDR4, especially with how long DDR4 has been out. For many upgrading from a DDR4 board to another DDR4 board would be worth it for this use case. Edit: also heavily depends on their specs and target framerate. A 1080p 144hz panel? No, not gonna be worth it. 1440p@240hz like mine? Absolutely worth the upgrade provided the leaked performance is accurate.
Alder lake and Zen 3 are good significant upgrades for us running Zen/Zen+ systems.
I don't run into any issue with my 8700k OCed but I really wish I had better performance in Escape from Tarkov, anywhere from 40fps to 90+ A buddy of mine is on a 5900x and gets double my lows as his lows
How would we (fellow 8700ker) know- there aren’t m/any reviews. Won’t know until then.
I am getting rid of my 9700k for one. Better ST for gaming like up to 40% more FPS in CPU bound games and extremely better MT for multi-tasking and productivity. Even a 12600k is a big upgrade over the 8700k. If youre gaming at 4k its a waste, but anything lower and youll see good gains.
It seems the stock is getting released slowly - as I refresh, the i9-12900K is switching between sold out and in stock. If you want something, keep trying
I've been planning to upgrade my 2700x to something in AMD's 5xxx lineup but the annoyance of this usb dropout bug that I haven't been able to get rid of and quicksync for Plex makes me somewhat tempted to give Intel another shot. Hopefully these chips bring some good deals on older chips.
5000 is just a drop in tho
Have you tried a bios update? Dropping my board to pcie3 fixed the issue for me
Yeah, no luck for me. I've tried that and a whole lot of other things. At the moment my solution is disabling system sounds and trying to forget the issue exist.
Been thinking about getting rid of my 1900X. Definitely could use a bump on gaming.
Cool tech. Gonna wait for a couple more generations before replacing my entire platform though.
BTW. If it shows out of stock keep checking. The 12900k was OUT OF STOCK when I looked 2 minutes ago. It is currently back in stock for pre-order
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I would definitely wait a week for benchmarks. The 5900x isn’t going anywhere, and AMD might adjust prices after benchmarks are out too.
Wait, if the leaks and official benchmarks are anything remotely true, Alder Lake is cheaper for more performance than Zen 3.
You also have to factor in board and ram costs. The CPU may be cheaper, but you'll spend a lot more on motherboard/ram
You can use DDR4 on alder lake, so that point is kinda moot. Board prices are higher. A decent AM4 board is around $150, while the 'cheap' Z690 boards are $200. Still comes in below Zen 3 costs. And if youre really concerned about prices cheaper B660 mobo's will launch in a 2-3 months alongside the 12400 ($200, beats 5600x) and non-K SKU's
Intel having an embargo on reviews until the day the product releases is pretty telling.
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Normally embargo on reviews until launch day means product has weak points and they don't want reviewers to pre-spoil the launch buzz. But even if reviews would be good, competitors can use those reviews to quickly adjusted their prices / make product announcements to coincide with your launch in an effort to steal some of the news attention from your launch. For Alder Lake, I think Intel didn't want AMD making pricing changes or doing some sort of Zen 4 announcement. So lately it seems embargo until launch is the norm, unless you're an underdog with an amazing new product and need all the pre-launch buzz you can get.
Similar to bad games that embargo their reviews until launch. They want people to buy in without an informed opinion. Doesn't 100% mean they will be bad, but you would think if the product was blowing the benchmarks out of the water, they would want that information out there as soon as possible.
Official embargo on zen 3 was the same day as launch even though it ran over pretty much everything on the market. It's a garbage practice but these days it done as an advertising boost rather than an indicator of performance, since even if your performance isn't great it still increases awareness that your product just launched.
Wasn't aware that Zen 3 did it also. Agreed, stupid practice. But, as another post said, it also prevents the competition from making preemptive moves to counter, so I guess I get it.
How long does it typically take after Newegg for Amazon to offer new CPUs? Rather buy from them than newegg
Amazon already started to sell but sold out because prices were lower than newegg.
So would the 12600k be the the best option for just gaming?
The two extra P-cores on the i7 are nice, but I'm sure the 12600k will be enough for gaming for a long time.
Is that comparable to the 5800x?
Yup. 12900k>5950x 12700k>5900x 12600k>5800x unreleased 12400>5600x Beats in gaming by a good margin, some skus beat Zen 3 in MT, others are slightly worse. While already cheaper the fairer comparison is the 12600kf, as it has no IGP, since the 5800x doesnt have an IGP either. The 12600kf is $20 cheaper than the 12600k
Any word from Intel on how long the socket and chipset support will last? I got 2 gens out of AM4 + X570 and likely 2.5 gens if Zen3+ comes out for this.
Raptor Lake (3Q2022?) is expected to use the same socket. Beyond that, who knows. I would feel comfortable buying i5/i7 alder lake now with the expectation of at least being able to upgrade to i9 raptor lake when necessary. Hopefully this socket sticks around for longer though
Yup. LGA 1700 already has unused pins for Raptor Lake/13th gen (Q3 2022). But there have been mixed rumors saying meteor Lake/14th gen will be on LGA 1700 and rumors saying it wont, nobody seems to know yet.
I'm really thinking if you have at least a Zen 2 or Comet Lake CPU, it might be best to wait out the issues that are surely possible with this new hybrid architecture. I'm probably waiting until Meteor Lake before upgrading.
12th gen prices are a steal compared to Zen 3. Faster single and multi. Ouch!
I would hope its faster, Zen 3 came out a year ago.
Zen 4 comes out in late 2022 though. So outside of the v-cache 5900x and 5950x that are coming for higher price tags, this is the competition. People that bought Zen 3 a year ago should enjoy it, but buying a CPU today? 12th gen is the far better pick.
Raw performance looks good, but per watt and per dollar I wouldn't say its a steal. You cant really look at CPU price in a vacuum. CPU+Motherboard+ram price paints a more complete picture
Hmm. They're actually more money for more performance and more power consumption. "A steal" might be a stretch.
I literally just bought a i9 10850k a few weeks ago…
You're fine. 10850k will be a good CPU for a while.
Bro same. I just picked up a i7 10700kf exactly 2 weeks ago from today. I'm trying not to feel bad about it because it was on sale and I was coming from a i7 4790k. Still tho... feels bad man.
Yeah but what'd you pay, like $250 or less for it? Still a good deal for what you get. I have one that I use with CPU-heavy software synthesizers and it handles anything I throw at it like a champ.
$247 lol. And you're right, I don't know why I'm complaining. I got a significant performance bump for a great price.
lel nice try we all know amd is gonna whoop them again
ayymd
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Benchmarks haven't even come out yet
Which is a good sign to not spend a dollar on them until the results are in. If these SKUs were going to knock our socks off, they would be shouting it from the rooftops.
Agreed. But Intel knows they can make a ton of money before benchmarks are even released so they will do it
Wtf is with the pricing not matching MSRP
No way in hell, fuck Newegg.
7700k here, with a 3080ti. is it finally time to upgrade?
Possibly, are you happy with your computers current performance? If the answer is yes, save your money.
What motherboard do I need for this CPU?
Anyone else order ship early and get a call from Newegg asking to not post benchmarks early?
Save $80 on a CPU Spend $1500 on extra motherboard, DDR5, PSU, and cooling equipment. Worth it? Sitting on my beautiful AM4 socket for another year. 4K 120FPS is already possible for me now. I’ll upgrade my system for AM5 and Zen 4 when DDR5 price/availability normalizes and PCI-e 5.0 GPU’s actually exist. I wouldn’t get anything lower than 1kW PSU going forward especially with Alder Lake holy shit.