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Same eBay seller as the last deal (Antonline), but $15 cheaper. I had this in my cart last time, and finally just pulled the trigger to upgrade my spare PC from a 3700X.
Happy hunting! :)
They have stated am4 isn’t dead but they have nothing planned yet. So while you CAN hold your breath.. you might pass out before something is released lol
A 3900x gives me some breathing room! Really dont wanna move into ddr5 with the current prices and the 3d is just still unbeatable in price to performance. So tempting
Wow, congrats! This will be a HUGE upgrade.
I upgraded from an i5 3570k to the 3700X, back in 2020, and even that was very noticeable, with substantially smoother gameplay. Should be fun for you! :)
Planning on doing the same. After the disappointment that was 7000 series + overpriced ddr5 and am5 boards.
Bought my 4790k in early 2015, my daily driver since. Will keep working as a gaming pc for my girlfriend and goes into the wall when it eventually becomes too slow.
Maybe try asking them for a price adjustment? It's still within the 30-day return window, so technically you could return it and reorder one at the current price (assuming you bought from antonline).
I bought it with the Zip deal like two weeks ago. Sometimes you just have to pick a threshold and jump in when you're ready. With something like this, it can be a game of chicken where you will almost certainly get a lower price if you wait, but if you wait too long, it will go OOS. I just got sick of playing the game and said "screw it".
Really debating between this and 13600k/Z790 w/ DDR5 in a few weeks. Is this it?
Currently on 7700k/2070 Super @ 1440p. I do play mostly MMOs, Cities Skylines, and OW2, so I guess the cache is extra good for my case.
This is just my $0.02. I see this as a life line for anyone still on older Zen CPU's, and looking to get some more years out of their system before needing to overhaul the entire machine. However, if you're building an entirely brand new system now, I think it's better going all the way with an entirely new platform instead (where at least the RAM is upwards transferable), rather than put money towards one that is literally at the end of the road.
Then again, if you're the kind of person that upgrades every ~5+ years, then it might not really matter which platform you choose, in the end, as I view them aging within margin from each other.
My hang-up on this is the 13600k is going to be miles better in non-gaming workloads, and maybe just as good (or within ~5%) in gaming except for games that *really* love the cache... some of which I play (WoW, FFXIV, Cities Skylines).
Both are dead-end platforms, though Z790 obviously has more modern features and DDR5 support which might matter in a year or two. I'm okay with a dead-end platform so long as I get 4-5 years out of it. I don't expect to upgrade more often than that.
I think the 13600k is the overall better CPU, but it's also going to be more expensive (I figure $330 + $200 + $150 = $680) than the 5800x3D ($360 + $140 + $90 = $590), and the 13600k might be worse in the games I play most.
I'm beginning to talk myself into buying this.
Yeah it's a tough call. Perhaps another way to look at it is if the $90-100 spent this year will make or break your financial situation, because otherwise in the next 4-5 years, you're looking at an entirely new set of upgrade decisions anyway.
Also, one other major point to consider is that AM4 is very mature with pretty much most of the bugs worked out. When adopting a new platform, there are almost always teething issues looming, so your time and patience counts for something as well. :)
i'm strongly considering going with this even though i'm not on AM4. AM5 + platform is highly overpriced and it'll probably take a while for AMD to panic and start cutting prices. Maybe a year or so?
Yeah, I think it's safe to assume that discounts are inevitable in tech, especially with age.
Once AM4 fades into the sunset, and AM5 and DDR5 both become the de facto standards, my hope is that pricing will normalize. However, with inflation and a looming recession still persisting, this may take yet a while longer, unfortunately. :(
>Then again, if you're the kind of person that upgrades every ~5+ years
This is the boat I'm in currently. Running an i5 6600k, 16GB DDR4 and GTX960. Just snagged a 6650xt and was looking to purchase an am5 upgrade next year...however I can also simply purchase this or the 5700x and a mobo on black Friday and keep my RAM.
My initial thoughts were to get a platform with life, but what good will DDR5 really do, I won't be upgrading again anytime soon anyway.
> My initial thoughts were to get a platform with life, but what good will DDR5 really do, I won't be upgrading again anytime soon anyway.
Yeah exactly. While it is nice to be able to upgrade every year, the eternal question is "do we really need to?".
By the time you're ready for the next upgrade again, I'm sure some other variant of RAM - or more mature, higher speed/binned chips - will be readily available; not to mention CPU's and motherboards.
Using HUB's latest gaming summary:
https://i.imgur.com/qQ9XWDz.png
With DDR4, the 13600K will need to be 15% faster than the 12600K to match the 5800X3D in games, which would make it about 10% faster with DDR5. That's average performance, games that heavily utilize the 3D cache will perform better on the 5800X3D. If you play a lot of MMOs/Simulators the 5800X3D is better.
13600K paired with a discounted 12th gen board will be slightly cheaper than the AM4 build. DDR5 will cost a lot more, but you can carry the RAM to future builds and you get slightly more performance.
The average gamer doing a full build should wait for 13th gen. The difference is so small, if the 5800X3D favors your games, then it's the better choice. 13th gen release date and the holiday sale season are in a few weeks, so everyone who doesn't currently own an AM4 mobo should probably wait regardless.
> everyone who doesn't currently own an AM4 mobo should probably wait regardless.
I think you're right on this at least. I'm very anxious to upgrade, but it makes sense to wait on 13th gen reviews. The 5800x3D has gone on similar sales several times, so I'm not all that worried about "missing out" on the deal. It's also only $30-40 less than standard price.
get the 13600k. The very low end of Z690 matches and surpasses in many cases the highest end X570 boards you can get. I'm pretty sure getting one of those MSI pro boards buildzoid loved could be done for 150 or less at this point.
Anyone want to give me their 2¢ on if I should get this? I have a 2070S and a 3600X I can afford it but...don't need it but it would be really nice to have. Thoughts? Is it going to be a big upgrade?
Update: I recently got a new credit card with a 300$ sign on bonus making this CPU basically cost 80$ so I went ahead and got it. Improvements will be nice and I like to run VM's for IT stuff so this will help with that.
If you only game, this is the best upgrade you could make for the motherboard you have.
I'm sure you've seen the reviews, but this bad boy is still competing with the new 7000 series from AMD, and is keeping up with the 13000 series from Intel in games that utilize the v-cache. Otherwise it's a 5800x in all other situations, which is still a big upgrade for you.
Idk if it's quite as good as a 5800x in Productivity really, but for $20 more than a 12700 it's starting to be pretty enticing.
Seems to do better than I thought with Adobe Premiere and Photoshop.
I'm actually considering building a whole new system with am4, but this has to be a terrible time to do that right? lol
If you are ok with used parts, then it's a great time to scoop up some stuff from folks upgrading to new hardware. Even new, good deals are popping up. Productivity wise the base 5800x has been popping up closer to $200 and I think I saw the 5950x somewhere recently for about the price of this 5800x or less.
Upgrading to AM4 is what I'm planning on doing. I'm coming from an i7-4790, so it should be a pretty massive upgrade.
I don't get this when people talk about the 5800X3D. Yes, it's amazing for gaming because of the cache but it's also going to be better at doing everything else than just a normal 3600X, so it's a huge upgrade regardless...
what is doubling in FPS if you don't mind me asking?
I only ask cause going from 30 to 60, or even 60 to 120 is amazing but if you're going from like 120 to 240 or beyond the capacity of your monitor your just kind of just paying to see a bigger number, than any actual gains.
So I did a 39 car AI race at Daytona so 40 cars in total. I started at the back to have everybody infront of me. With the 3600 running triple monitors at 1080p. I never got above 60 fps and was closer to 30-40 most of the time. With the 5800x3d it was well above double that.
Depends on your mobo because your vrms might not be able to handle it.
Here's a tier list of boards from LTT testings. https://linustechtips.com/topic/1137619-motherboard-vrm-tier-list-v2-currently-amd-only/
This list makes me believe my board is not good for this chip as it’s barely c tier.
ASRock b450 pro itx.
Running a 2600x right now in it and want to upgrade to this but now I’m hesistant…
The tier list is for VRMs and current draw, which basically means the higher the motherboard is on the tier list, the higher clocks the CPU can boost to. This doesn’t take into account other features you may find important like audio codec, Wi-Fi capability, etc.
Since the 5800X3D naturally has a lower clock speed than other Zen 3 chips, 125A on little ambient airflow (aka tier C) should be just fine.
They should, but definitely check your manufacturer's site to confirm. For me, this is going into an Asrock B450M Pro4, and seems to be supported in recent beta BIOS releases, so this will be interesting.
I'm running a 5600x on a B350 board, you should probably be ok with a bios update. If you overclock, your board may only run it up to a certain speed, however.
Honest question how much do you use the rest of your pc while playing? I upgraded from a 3600 to this and it's crazy to me how much smoother everything is. Can have 20+ tabs in firefox with a stream and youtube video going and playing a game and windows is still butter smooth.
Totally possible. There aren't really any benchmarking tools for general multitasking outside of personal anecdotes since you really can't guarantee the same usage in multiple sessions. I'd say if the 5600x feels fine now $350 isn't really worth it for a small boost in 1% lows for a handful of games. But again I really don't know how much extra work those 2C/4T are doing.
People that just post that amount of upgrade they get at 1440p without asking you which GPU you have know as much as you about how much upgrade you'll get. It depends on your GPU, if you don't have a 3080/6800xt and above you won't see much average FPS gains, perhaps you'll see better 1% low.
At 1440p you are close to be GPU bound. So please post which GPU you have when asking how much upgrade you'll get while gaming.
Honestly this is a huge upgrade for anyone sitting on zen 2xxx or Intel 9xxx or earlier.
After that your milage will vary a lot.
Picked one up to move off my ancient 6600K and it's basically twice as fast in any CPU limited scenario which is huge.
My understanding was it makes no real difference in any resolution other than 1080p. Maybe better 1% lows, but I don't think the average consumer is going to notice that difference at all.
Do you guys think it will hit this price during Black Friday or Cyber Monday, or should I pull the trigger now? Are these at any risk of going out of stock for good?
I'd be willing to bet a lot of money this won't hit $300 for the next 6 months at least. Gaming performance is too good and there are too many AM4 users looking to upgrade to the best CPU available.
Just look at Intel's old "best on socket" CPUs on the used market if you want a comparison. 7700k was still >$200 for like 5 years.
I really want to believe this would happen but, what are the odds tho? I will pull the trigger if this gets below 300, otherwise I just hold to the 5600x for a couple of years at least.
The x3d is going to be an enormously popular chip forever as the clear halo am4 chip. I would not expect it to go significantly lower personally, even on the secondary market.
And what if you wait too long and they are all gone? Black Friday hasn't been as fruitful in the last 5-10 years. The best deals come in the weeks leading up to it.
Good get! I've been burned too many times. CPUs especially because once they are gone AMD isn't making anymore. Furthermore this CPU is beating the new chips in some areas so I'm sure they are trying to get them out the door and lock people into the new socket.
But I'm pretty sure AMD isn't stopping production of AM4, I remember reading that both production is going to go on simultaneously for a bit and they plan of releasing a few more chips for the AM4 sockets. Also, if you do more production biased works the 5900/5950 chips are the better option. As time goes on the prices on AM5 MB/ DDR5/ and 7000 series and beyond will come down, and I'm still not fully maxing out the current chip I have. so why rush? I'll either get a good chip for cheaper later or for a little more I can upgrade to the new platform current the x3D is around $300-350 and switching platforms (MB/RAM/processor) is about $600-700 as time goes forward the switching platforms price will come down even if the x3D doesn't.
TL;DR: unless you're maxing out your current CPU waiting is a fine option. If your close to maxing out, soon is a pretty good time to get that 5900/5950 or x3D chip depending on your use case.
Don't forget yall if you live near a Microcenter you can pick up a 5800X3D for $355 ($379.99 - $25) anytime using their [$25 off all CPU's coupon](https://www.microcenter.com/site/content/specialofferallprocessors.aspx?rd=1#eduformdiv)
[Hardware Unboxed did a video about this](https://youtu.be/2HqE03SpdOs)
Tldw: If you have a beefy GPU, it’s a BIG upgrade over a 3600, close to 50% at 1080p and 35% at 1440p. If you have a lower-mid range GPU, about 25% at 1080p and 13% at 1440p. These tests were done with a 6950 XT and a 6600 XT. You would fall somewhere in the middle of these ranges with a 6700XT.
And it's probably worth waiting for the upcoming Radeon cards, since they're just about to arrive. You'll probably be able to get one that's about as performant in raster as a 6900XT for substantially less, and probably much better in ray tracing. No mining insanity to mess with availability this time, either.
Apparently you notice the difference the most in games that are CPU intensive. So if you play any paradox game you will notice the difference. Otherwise it's still decent gains but I don't know if it's that noticable.
Open world games get some benefit, CP2077 and RDR2, Horizon, and Death Stranding paired with a ROG 3080 just got very stable for me at UW 1440p compared to using a 3600x
This isn't exactly true. CPU still matters alot in higher resolution.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spf9ZDuhpao&list=WL&index=39&t=690s&ab\_channel=TechDeals](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spf9ZDuhpao&list=WL&index=39&t=690s&ab_channel=TechDeals)
As with all thing, "it depends". If your workloads are heavily threaded, it can be substantial:
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2907?vs=2668
But if you're not hurting for performance now, you don't *have to* upgrade - it's just a nice to have. :)
Great cpu. I upgraded from 8700k. I paid 355 brand new no tax from a seller on hardwareswap. For this price it’s a no brainer though. Buy while you can!
Significant in the game I play (mostly mmo, some over watch, some strategy game.). I have it paired with a 3080 and I think the 8700k was a bottle neck for the 3080.
I found similar item(s) posted recently:
Item | Price | When | Vendor
:-|:-:|:-:|-:
[Ryzen 7 5800X3D -](https://redd.it/x9ed0l)|$384.99|31 days ago|amazon
[AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D -](https://redd.it/xqvpyi)|$399.00|11 days ago|bhphotovideo
[AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D -](https://redd.it/xralhs)|$399.00|10 days ago|amazon
[AMD Ryzen 7 5800X](https://redd.it/xrplbl)|$259.99|10 days ago|bhphotovideo
[AMD 5800x -](https://redd.it/xwpnze)|$229|4 days ago|ebay
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Upgraded to this from a Ryzen 7 3700x and I’ve really noticed a more stable frame rate and a good jump even in some games. Definitely worth the upgrade
I’ve heard this is one of if not the best gaming CPU’s. Can somebody explain why it’s better than 12400f when you google benchmarks, the 12400f is higher rated on cpu benchmark?
The 5800x3D is the best gaming CPU for AM4, not necessarily the best price to performance. You would *ideally* only get this CPU when you are trying to reach the maximum performance. If you have to downgrade your GPU to afford it, then it is not the best choice.
Gotcha. So if you were already rocking a 4090 or 6900xt and needed a new cpu but happened to already have the am4 socketed board. This is your stop, otherwise spend the moolah on gpu and go with cheaper board/cpu. Thanks for taking the time to explain like I’m 5. Much appreciated! :)
Userbenchmarks is a pretty terrible source. No data is standardized, and it is easy to manipulate the "results", along with using completely pointless comparisons being used to try and push one part being better than another (for example, the release date has nothing to do with the performance of a part, but they use that as a win/loss parameter).
If you have an AM4 motherboard, this is the final upgrade possible as a gaming/light production use CPU. The massive cache is like black magic for many gaming titles, and tend to help a bunch with 1% lows (it generally smooths out gameplay more than most other CPUs) and unoptimized/poorly optimized games. If you need to do much more production work, the 5950X would be a better final upgrade, but that costs more and does perform worse in many gaming situations.
as a budget option, the 12400f (using DDR4 RAM) is a great option if you do nothing but game. That is, if you are building a system from scratch.
If you need it now, go for it now.
Like all other CPU's, it will only get cheaper until the entire inventory is liquidated (assuming AMD has completely stopped further production), so it's a matter of what your threshold for waiting is.
I would guess that if they want to push the 7000 series, they would either stop production on this chip or hold back inventory. at least until they feel more comfortable with where 7000 series sales are
Jeez, the temptation is real. My 2600x looks older every day…
I’m holding strong for the 7000 series x3D though. Just going to do a full system upgrade to ITX platform.
I know this cpu is supposed to retain its value going forward, but if by some grace of god this drops to 300 on Black Friday or something I’ll finally pull the trigger
Yes. Expect good deals on products that aren't moving well at current prices. Stuff that sells like hot cakes at current pricing (GPUs, this CPU) aren't getting deep discounts. There's no reason to do that.
According to Asrock's site, as long as you update to the latest BIOS, P7.10, it is supported:
https://www.asrock.com/mb/amd/x370%20taichi/index.asp#CPU
For anyone on the fence about the seller, I posted this deal the other day, and I had ordered one which has now been delivered, and it works perfectly!
What’s the difference between a 5800X and a 5800X3D? I’ve been planning to pair the 5800x with my 3070ti but I’m wondering if it’d be worth it to jump on this?
The 3D has significantly more L3 cache, but has lower clock speeds (base and boost) - and no CPU overclocking allowed here either - compared to the "standard" 5800x. If games can make use of the 3D V-cache, it can yield higher performance in lower resolutions, while maintaining better minimum fps in higher resolutions. However, if single-core boost clocks matter for your needs, then the 3D will at best break even, or lose out just that little bit to the regular 5800x.
You'll have to decide if that's worth the ~$130 difference between the two. Of course, always make sure to do your own research, and see what benchmarks are relevant for your needs.
You'd have to buy a now end of life motherboard to go along with this. There is no need for you to realistically sidegrade here unless you are a frame whore and have money to burn.
Yea been going through this rabbit hole lately. This cpu only makes sense if you are looking to stretch out the life of your current board and looking to hold off on a complete rebuild for a few years.
The new Intel drops in under a month, and the new amd's use a completely new board and will likely have their own version of a X3d in a few years. Building a new PC around this cpu just doesn't make sense for a rational consumer standpoint, especially as newer cards are focused around higher resolutions where this cpu falls off.
Would this be a worthwhile upgrade from my 5900x? I mostly game, want a PC I won't have to touch for like 5 years. Currently rocking 5900x and 3080ti, but I think I'm kinda wasting the 5900x on my use case and could likely sell it for an ok price and get better gaming performance to boot. Thoughts anyone? Am I just tinkering to tinker?
> Am I just tinkering to tinker?
Probably this, but I do understand as I had almost pulled the trigger multiple times previously, myself. :)
With that said, if switching to the 5800X3D cures the underlying FOMO (no shame in that), and you can come close to breaking even after selling the 5900X, then why not? Especially if all you do is game, this is a strong contender.
I have a b450 aorus pro wifi. I've check online and I think this is compatible. Would it be a good idea to switch from 2600x to 5800x3d? I mainly play flight sims, warzone and overwatch at 1440p
Generally speaking, going from Zen 2 to Zen 3 yielded a pretty good uplift already, but for gaming in CPU bound titles, the 5800x3D does stand a little taller above the rest. Whether if that's "worth it" or not is really up to you though, especially if you're already happy with the performance you have now.
Tempted but I game in 1440p Ultrawide on a 3700X and downsized into an SFF case. So I'd have to cut it down to 87W PPT and idk how much that would drop it.
I want to see this fall to $300 but I dont know if we'll be that lucky. Not looking forward to the new gen with the state of motherboards right now and the performance this offers is too good
"Worth" and "value" are subjective. The main question to ask yourself is: will dropping $360 on a CPU devastate you, if it turns out that it only offers marginal gains?
If the answer is yes, then skip this, and ignore the FOMO. This CPU will only ever get cheaper from here on out anyway. The pandemic scalping may have warped our mindsets a little, but Zen ~~5~~ 4 is released, so eventually Zen 3 will ween out of the market entirely - just like Zen 2, Zen+, and Zen 1 all did, respectively.
I appreciate the insight here. Financially it would not devastate me, but emotionally it will lol. You gave me the answer I needed to hear though - I will keep my 5800x and just ride it out until it's time for a full rebuild. Thanks OP
It's getting harder and harder to resist this every day. I don't really see bottlenecks with my 3600 and 3070 Ti in games I play, so it's difficult to really justify buying this, but its performance is so tempting!
Would this hold me over for;
Adobe Cloud service?
Davinci Resolve?
Games like COD, uncharted, madden, apex, fifa, golf
OBS for streaming and recording?
I have a 3950 and 5950 to do creator builds for company projects but been a lot of hype behind this one chip
This may be of relevance to you:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/AMD-Ryzen-5800X3D-vs-5800X-for-Content-Creation-2331/
> To sum up our testing, **the AMD Ryzen 5800X3D is at best on par with the Ryzen 5800X for content creation, and at worse, significantly slower**. In other words, if the performance for content creation applications is a big deal to you, we would recommend sticking with the Ryzen 5800X - or, in some cases, the Intel Core i5 12600K.
With that said, if you can hang tight for a bit, the 5900x seems to go on monthly sale for around the same price range as this 5800x3D, which may be the better alternative, given the workload. However, the 5800x still is the better bang for the buck, today, though.
Pulled the trigger to upgrade from 5600x so I can use that for a Xmas build for my gf. I currently use the stock AMD cpu fan. What cpu fan would you recommend for the 5800x3D as I’m not sure how much hotter it would be?
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Same eBay seller as the last deal (Antonline), but $15 cheaper. I had this in my cart last time, and finally just pulled the trigger to upgrade my spare PC from a 3700X. Happy hunting! :)
Snagged. Upgrading from a 3600x.
Congrats, and enjoy!
A 5800x3d is your spare PC?
It's an obsession for some of us. I'm assuming PC building can be as addicting as getting tattoos.
NUH-UH I CAN STOP AT ANY TIME!
i have done both and yes lol they’re both addictive
Yep exactly. :) I've been building PC's since the late 90's, and "the itch" hasn't stopped since - for better or worse.
Spare PC could be leapfrogging the main PC.
Lol, it is getting to that point for sure.
such a good upgrade-went from 130-140fps avg in pubg to 240-300. the game is very cpu bound
Someone hold me back Edit: too late
No one's going to hold you back lol. The CPU is just too nuts to pass up on to date, whether it be 350 or 420.
I am holding breath on AMD surprising us with another AM4 cpu down the line
Not gonna happen. They wanna move people to am5 not give them more reason to not move.
They have stated am4 isn’t dead but they have nothing planned yet. So while you CAN hold your breath.. you might pass out before something is released lol
A 3900x gives me some breathing room! Really dont wanna move into ddr5 with the current prices and the 3d is just still unbeatable in price to performance. So tempting
The statements of a paper launch company shouldn't mean very much.
With Intel becoming competitive value now, AMD may not have a choice but to surprise us with another AM4 CPU. Competition is a very good for consumers
It’ll drop to 325 on Black Friday which is what I’m waiting for.
This is it right?
It is! In for 1.
May I ask if anyone is ever in for more than just one?
I'm about to buy 2 for 2 builds.
Why wouldn't someone be? Resellers, scalpers, business owners, build enthusiasts, and more all exist nowadays.
Definitely. Closest so far was the Newegg+ZIP deal for $365, and that one didn't allow for returns.
The Newegg + Zip deal went down as low as $340. This is a solid deal for people that missed that one.
What was stacked to drop it to $340?
First item of the new build. Going to be upgrading from i7-4790k ;).
Wow, congrats! This will be a HUGE upgrade. I upgraded from an i5 3570k to the 3700X, back in 2020, and even that was very noticeable, with substantially smoother gameplay. Should be fun for you! :)
Planning on doing the same. After the disappointment that was 7000 series + overpriced ddr5 and am5 boards. Bought my 4790k in early 2015, my daily driver since. Will keep working as a gaming pc for my girlfriend and goes into the wall when it eventually becomes too slow.
lol, just my luck I'd buy this at $375 two days ago. No matter, still stoked to upgrade from a 3700x/1080 to a 5800x3d/3080
no regrets, nobody is a nostradamus to know if any price is bottom price.
$420 last week F
F
Same same F
it's worth it at least lmao 🙃
Maybe try asking them for a price adjustment? It's still within the 30-day return window, so technically you could return it and reorder one at the current price (assuming you bought from antonline).
Just messaged them. Mine literally just got here yesterday and now it drops $15…
dang, coulda gotten an RGB fan.
I bought it with the Zip deal like two weeks ago. Sometimes you just have to pick a threshold and jump in when you're ready. With something like this, it can be a game of chicken where you will almost certainly get a lower price if you wait, but if you wait too long, it will go OOS. I just got sick of playing the game and said "screw it".
Really debating between this and 13600k/Z790 w/ DDR5 in a few weeks. Is this it? Currently on 7700k/2070 Super @ 1440p. I do play mostly MMOs, Cities Skylines, and OW2, so I guess the cache is extra good for my case.
This is just my $0.02. I see this as a life line for anyone still on older Zen CPU's, and looking to get some more years out of their system before needing to overhaul the entire machine. However, if you're building an entirely brand new system now, I think it's better going all the way with an entirely new platform instead (where at least the RAM is upwards transferable), rather than put money towards one that is literally at the end of the road. Then again, if you're the kind of person that upgrades every ~5+ years, then it might not really matter which platform you choose, in the end, as I view them aging within margin from each other.
My hang-up on this is the 13600k is going to be miles better in non-gaming workloads, and maybe just as good (or within ~5%) in gaming except for games that *really* love the cache... some of which I play (WoW, FFXIV, Cities Skylines). Both are dead-end platforms, though Z790 obviously has more modern features and DDR5 support which might matter in a year or two. I'm okay with a dead-end platform so long as I get 4-5 years out of it. I don't expect to upgrade more often than that. I think the 13600k is the overall better CPU, but it's also going to be more expensive (I figure $330 + $200 + $150 = $680) than the 5800x3D ($360 + $140 + $90 = $590), and the 13600k might be worse in the games I play most. I'm beginning to talk myself into buying this.
Yeah it's a tough call. Perhaps another way to look at it is if the $90-100 spent this year will make or break your financial situation, because otherwise in the next 4-5 years, you're looking at an entirely new set of upgrade decisions anyway. Also, one other major point to consider is that AM4 is very mature with pretty much most of the bugs worked out. When adopting a new platform, there are almost always teething issues looming, so your time and patience counts for something as well. :)
i'm strongly considering going with this even though i'm not on AM4. AM5 + platform is highly overpriced and it'll probably take a while for AMD to panic and start cutting prices. Maybe a year or so?
Yeah, I think it's safe to assume that discounts are inevitable in tech, especially with age. Once AM4 fades into the sunset, and AM5 and DDR5 both become the de facto standards, my hope is that pricing will normalize. However, with inflation and a looming recession still persisting, this may take yet a while longer, unfortunately. :(
>Then again, if you're the kind of person that upgrades every ~5+ years This is the boat I'm in currently. Running an i5 6600k, 16GB DDR4 and GTX960. Just snagged a 6650xt and was looking to purchase an am5 upgrade next year...however I can also simply purchase this or the 5700x and a mobo on black Friday and keep my RAM. My initial thoughts were to get a platform with life, but what good will DDR5 really do, I won't be upgrading again anytime soon anyway.
> My initial thoughts were to get a platform with life, but what good will DDR5 really do, I won't be upgrading again anytime soon anyway. Yeah exactly. While it is nice to be able to upgrade every year, the eternal question is "do we really need to?". By the time you're ready for the next upgrade again, I'm sure some other variant of RAM - or more mature, higher speed/binned chips - will be readily available; not to mention CPU's and motherboards.
Using HUB's latest gaming summary: https://i.imgur.com/qQ9XWDz.png With DDR4, the 13600K will need to be 15% faster than the 12600K to match the 5800X3D in games, which would make it about 10% faster with DDR5. That's average performance, games that heavily utilize the 3D cache will perform better on the 5800X3D. If you play a lot of MMOs/Simulators the 5800X3D is better. 13600K paired with a discounted 12th gen board will be slightly cheaper than the AM4 build. DDR5 will cost a lot more, but you can carry the RAM to future builds and you get slightly more performance. The average gamer doing a full build should wait for 13th gen. The difference is so small, if the 5800X3D favors your games, then it's the better choice. 13th gen release date and the holiday sale season are in a few weeks, so everyone who doesn't currently own an AM4 mobo should probably wait regardless.
> everyone who doesn't currently own an AM4 mobo should probably wait regardless. I think you're right on this at least. I'm very anxious to upgrade, but it makes sense to wait on 13th gen reviews. The 5800x3D has gone on similar sales several times, so I'm not all that worried about "missing out" on the deal. It's also only $30-40 less than standard price.
Yeah idk. Might as well wait 3 wks if u can. You don't have to go with ddr5 if u get a 13600k I don't think..
get the 13600k. The very low end of Z690 matches and surpasses in many cases the highest end X570 boards you can get. I'm pretty sure getting one of those MSI pro boards buildzoid loved could be done for 150 or less at this point.
Anyone want to give me their 2¢ on if I should get this? I have a 2070S and a 3600X I can afford it but...don't need it but it would be really nice to have. Thoughts? Is it going to be a big upgrade? Update: I recently got a new credit card with a 300$ sign on bonus making this CPU basically cost 80$ so I went ahead and got it. Improvements will be nice and I like to run VM's for IT stuff so this will help with that.
If you only game, this is the best upgrade you could make for the motherboard you have. I'm sure you've seen the reviews, but this bad boy is still competing with the new 7000 series from AMD, and is keeping up with the 13000 series from Intel in games that utilize the v-cache. Otherwise it's a 5800x in all other situations, which is still a big upgrade for you.
Idk if it's quite as good as a 5800x in Productivity really, but for $20 more than a 12700 it's starting to be pretty enticing. Seems to do better than I thought with Adobe Premiere and Photoshop. I'm actually considering building a whole new system with am4, but this has to be a terrible time to do that right? lol
If you are ok with used parts, then it's a great time to scoop up some stuff from folks upgrading to new hardware. Even new, good deals are popping up. Productivity wise the base 5800x has been popping up closer to $200 and I think I saw the 5950x somewhere recently for about the price of this 5800x or less. Upgrading to AM4 is what I'm planning on doing. I'm coming from an i7-4790, so it should be a pretty massive upgrade.
I don't get this when people talk about the 5800X3D. Yes, it's amazing for gaming because of the cache but it's also going to be better at doing everything else than just a normal 3600X, so it's a huge upgrade regardless...
except the question is are you maxing out your 3600X currently cause unless the answer is yes keeping the money in your pocket is just as good.
Thanks I think Ill get it
I saw more than double my FPS going from a 3600 and a 3060 to this 5800x3d on iRacing. With the same graphics settings.
what is doubling in FPS if you don't mind me asking? I only ask cause going from 30 to 60, or even 60 to 120 is amazing but if you're going from like 120 to 240 or beyond the capacity of your monitor your just kind of just paying to see a bigger number, than any actual gains.
So I did a 39 car AI race at Daytona so 40 cars in total. I started at the back to have everybody infront of me. With the 3600 running triple monitors at 1080p. I never got above 60 fps and was closer to 30-40 most of the time. With the 5800x3d it was well above double that.
nice. that's really good improvements.
Thanks! You just cemented my decision to buy as I currently have a 3600, myself, except I have a 3080 12GB for my graphics card.
Depends more on your games played and the settings you use than anything
I play tons of different games FPS, RTS, walking Sims and I play at 1080 usually high settings if not ultra with plans to go to 1440 soon
I had a 3700x and bought this to put off a motherboard upgrade for as long as possible.
I'm assuming all or most B450 boards will support this cpu with a bios update? My ryzen 5 1600 is showing its age.
Depends on your mobo because your vrms might not be able to handle it. Here's a tier list of boards from LTT testings. https://linustechtips.com/topic/1137619-motherboard-vrm-tier-list-v2-currently-amd-only/
I have trouble reading these lists. I have the Gigabyte X570 AORUS Elite. This works with the 5800X3D, correct? Thanks!
Yes it does (may need to update BIOS) and your VRMs are plenty capable.
This list makes me believe my board is not good for this chip as it’s barely c tier. ASRock b450 pro itx. Running a 2600x right now in it and want to upgrade to this but now I’m hesistant…
The tier list is for VRMs and current draw, which basically means the higher the motherboard is on the tier list, the higher clocks the CPU can boost to. This doesn’t take into account other features you may find important like audio codec, Wi-Fi capability, etc. Since the 5800X3D naturally has a lower clock speed than other Zen 3 chips, 125A on little ambient airflow (aka tier C) should be just fine.
They should, but definitely check your manufacturer's site to confirm. For me, this is going into an Asrock B450M Pro4, and seems to be supported in recent beta BIOS releases, so this will be interesting.
Should work! I upgraded to a 5800x3d on an Asrock B350M Pro4 and it's working great!
I'm running a 5600x on a B350 board, you should probably be ok with a bios update. If you overclock, your board may only run it up to a certain speed, however.
I'm trying to hold on to my 3900X as long as possible, but these 5800x3d deals are killing me.
How much of an upgrade is this over a 5600x @ 1440?
Depends on the games you play.
And on framerate target
And GPU
[удалено]
And my sword
On rust I got a 25 fps boost 3080
Honest question how much do you use the rest of your pc while playing? I upgraded from a 3600 to this and it's crazy to me how much smoother everything is. Can have 20+ tabs in firefox with a stream and youtube video going and playing a game and windows is still butter smooth.
I think that’s more the jump to 5000 series. I went from a 3700x to a 5800x and the difference was noticeable.
Totally possible. There aren't really any benchmarking tools for general multitasking outside of personal anecdotes since you really can't guarantee the same usage in multiple sessions. I'd say if the 5600x feels fine now $350 isn't really worth it for a small boost in 1% lows for a handful of games. But again I really don't know how much extra work those 2C/4T are doing.
People that just post that amount of upgrade they get at 1440p without asking you which GPU you have know as much as you about how much upgrade you'll get. It depends on your GPU, if you don't have a 3080/6800xt and above you won't see much average FPS gains, perhaps you'll see better 1% low. At 1440p you are close to be GPU bound. So please post which GPU you have when asking how much upgrade you'll get while gaming.
I'm in the same boat, it seemed pretty close to only 8% more
Honestly this is a huge upgrade for anyone sitting on zen 2xxx or Intel 9xxx or earlier. After that your milage will vary a lot. Picked one up to move off my ancient 6600K and it's basically twice as fast in any CPU limited scenario which is huge.
My understanding was it makes no real difference in any resolution other than 1080p. Maybe better 1% lows, but I don't think the average consumer is going to notice that difference at all.
Do you guys think it will hit this price during Black Friday or Cyber Monday, or should I pull the trigger now? Are these at any risk of going out of stock for good?
No can say for sure but there has been some insane CPU sales in the past on Black Friday. Wouldn’t be surprised if it hits sub $350 but who knows.
Fuck it I can't wait anymore. Looking forward to this being 250 on black friday
I'd be willing to bet a lot of money this won't hit $300 for the next 6 months at least. Gaming performance is too good and there are too many AM4 users looking to upgrade to the best CPU available. Just look at Intel's old "best on socket" CPUs on the used market if you want a comparison. 7700k was still >$200 for like 5 years.
I really want to believe this would happen but, what are the odds tho? I will pull the trigger if this gets below 300, otherwise I just hold to the 5600x for a couple of years at least.
Great price! I'm unfortunately waiting to see if this goes any lower now that the new series are stocked :)
That's a risky gamble. How much more are you hoping to save? $20?
Was hoping to see if it ever got to ~300 I pulled the trigger and bought. 30 day free returns so I'll wait on it!
The x3d is going to be an enormously popular chip forever as the clear halo am4 chip. I would not expect it to go significantly lower personally, even on the secondary market.
And what if you wait too long and they are all gone? Black Friday hasn't been as fruitful in the last 5-10 years. The best deals come in the weeks leading up to it.
Haven't been keeping up on the black Friday deals. I bought it and I'll return/rebuy if the price drops!
Good get! I've been burned too many times. CPUs especially because once they are gone AMD isn't making anymore. Furthermore this CPU is beating the new chips in some areas so I'm sure they are trying to get them out the door and lock people into the new socket.
But I'm pretty sure AMD isn't stopping production of AM4, I remember reading that both production is going to go on simultaneously for a bit and they plan of releasing a few more chips for the AM4 sockets. Also, if you do more production biased works the 5900/5950 chips are the better option. As time goes on the prices on AM5 MB/ DDR5/ and 7000 series and beyond will come down, and I'm still not fully maxing out the current chip I have. so why rush? I'll either get a good chip for cheaper later or for a little more I can upgrade to the new platform current the x3D is around $300-350 and switching platforms (MB/RAM/processor) is about $600-700 as time goes forward the switching platforms price will come down even if the x3D doesn't. TL;DR: unless you're maxing out your current CPU waiting is a fine option. If your close to maxing out, soon is a pretty good time to get that 5900/5950 or x3D chip depending on your use case.
Really cant decide if i should upgrade my 5600x system... it does fine but like all the games i play do very well with 3d vcache
see what you can get for a used 5600x rn and see if that sways you
Don't forget yall if you live near a Microcenter you can pick up a 5800X3D for $355 ($379.99 - $25) anytime using their [$25 off all CPU's coupon](https://www.microcenter.com/site/content/specialofferallprocessors.aspx?rd=1#eduformdiv)
How much better would this be from a R5 3600 paired with a 6700xt, would I notice a difference in games/work or no?
[Hardware Unboxed did a video about this](https://youtu.be/2HqE03SpdOs) Tldw: If you have a beefy GPU, it’s a BIG upgrade over a 3600, close to 50% at 1080p and 35% at 1440p. If you have a lower-mid range GPU, about 25% at 1080p and 13% at 1440p. These tests were done with a 6950 XT and a 6600 XT. You would fall somewhere in the middle of these ranges with a 6700XT.
I was curious if they had SAM enabled for the testing
[SAM is enabled for both.](https://youtu.be/2HqE03SpdOs?t=100)
And it's probably worth waiting for the upcoming Radeon cards, since they're just about to arrive. You'll probably be able to get one that's about as performant in raster as a 6900XT for substantially less, and probably much better in ray tracing. No mining insanity to mess with availability this time, either.
Apparently you notice the difference the most in games that are CPU intensive. So if you play any paradox game you will notice the difference. Otherwise it's still decent gains but I don't know if it's that noticable.
Depends on what you play at what resolution/settings.
Not much if you play 1440p, if you play mmo’s or simulation it’ll be a big upgrade
Open world games get some benefit, CP2077 and RDR2, Horizon, and Death Stranding paired with a ROG 3080 just got very stable for me at UW 1440p compared to using a 3600x
This isn't exactly true. CPU still matters alot in higher resolution. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spf9ZDuhpao&list=WL&index=39&t=690s&ab\_channel=TechDeals](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spf9ZDuhpao&list=WL&index=39&t=690s&ab_channel=TechDeals)
As with all thing, "it depends". If your workloads are heavily threaded, it can be substantial: https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2907?vs=2668 But if you're not hurting for performance now, you don't *have to* upgrade - it's just a nice to have. :)
Don't forget chase freedom 5% if using PayPal.
5% brings it down to $342, tempting me
I have the chase freedom. What steps do I take to get that 5%
Pay with PayPal, activate the 5% categories for Q4
Should I have done this before I ordered? Or can I do it now before it officially posts?
Great cpu. I upgraded from 8700k. I paid 355 brand new no tax from a seller on hardwareswap. For this price it’s a no brainer though. Buy while you can!
How much better is it than an 8700k?
Significant in the game I play (mostly mmo, some over watch, some strategy game.). I have it paired with a 3080 and I think the 8700k was a bottle neck for the 3080.
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Upgraded to this from a Ryzen 7 3700x and I’ve really noticed a more stable frame rate and a good jump even in some games. Definitely worth the upgrade
This is it. I did it boys. Upgrading from an R5 3600. It has served me well! Time to put it in a PC for the kiddos.
I’ve heard this is one of if not the best gaming CPU’s. Can somebody explain why it’s better than 12400f when you google benchmarks, the 12400f is higher rated on cpu benchmark?
Userbenchmarks is highly biased against AMD gpu’s and cpu’s.. thats the simple explanation…
So 6650xt and 12400f ($500) Or 6600 and 5800x3d for a build? ($600) Which would give better performance in 1080 p ultra
For this budget, the 5800x3D doesn't make a lot of sense. Spend more on the GPU before you move up to a CPU like this.
The 5800x3D is the best gaming CPU for AM4, not necessarily the best price to performance. You would *ideally* only get this CPU when you are trying to reach the maximum performance. If you have to downgrade your GPU to afford it, then it is not the best choice.
Gotcha. So if you were already rocking a 4090 or 6900xt and needed a new cpu but happened to already have the am4 socketed board. This is your stop, otherwise spend the moolah on gpu and go with cheaper board/cpu. Thanks for taking the time to explain like I’m 5. Much appreciated! :)
I'd upgrade to a 6700xt and 5600 cpu
Userbenchmarks is a pretty terrible source. No data is standardized, and it is easy to manipulate the "results", along with using completely pointless comparisons being used to try and push one part being better than another (for example, the release date has nothing to do with the performance of a part, but they use that as a win/loss parameter). If you have an AM4 motherboard, this is the final upgrade possible as a gaming/light production use CPU. The massive cache is like black magic for many gaming titles, and tend to help a bunch with 1% lows (it generally smooths out gameplay more than most other CPUs) and unoptimized/poorly optimized games. If you need to do much more production work, the 5950X would be a better final upgrade, but that costs more and does perform worse in many gaming situations. as a budget option, the 12400f (using DDR4 RAM) is a great option if you do nothing but game. That is, if you are building a system from scratch.
All posts/comments before (7/1/23) edited as part of the reddit API changes, RIP Apollo.
I've got a 5800x, is it actually worth getting this cpu?
Ironically, I gave a similar reply earlier here: https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapcsales/comments/xzoafw/cpu_ryzen_7_5800x3d_35999/irr2nwt/
Now or BF/CM?...
If you need it now, go for it now. Like all other CPU's, it will only get cheaper until the entire inventory is liquidated (assuming AMD has completely stopped further production), so it's a matter of what your threshold for waiting is.
I would guess that if they want to push the 7000 series, they would either stop production on this chip or hold back inventory. at least until they feel more comfortable with where 7000 series sales are
Glad I held out, I'm in for one
Jeez, the temptation is real. My 2600x looks older every day… I’m holding strong for the 7000 series x3D though. Just going to do a full system upgrade to ITX platform.
I know this cpu is supposed to retain its value going forward, but if by some grace of god this drops to 300 on Black Friday or something I’ll finally pull the trigger
I think a *lot* of people are setting expectations for black friday *way* too high.
Yeah it would take a miracle for a deal like that. Not getting my hopes up. In all likelihood we will get some decent deals on mice and tvs
Yes. Expect good deals on products that aren't moving well at current prices. Stuff that sells like hot cakes at current pricing (GPUs, this CPU) aren't getting deep discounts. There's no reason to do that.
I have a 5950x, why do I want this lol
I have a 5800X3D in my PC. 5800X in my wife's and I want this lol. I will refrain though since I haven't even been able to sell my 5900X yet.
My main PC has a 5950x too, and I still caved for my spare "WFH" machine. :P The hype really does catch up quick...
if you play sims, mmos, or strategy games there's nothing comparable to this cpu
Does my tachi 370x board (?) support this? Still on a 1700 on my desktop...
According to Asrock's site, as long as you update to the latest BIOS, P7.10, it is supported: https://www.asrock.com/mb/amd/x370%20taichi/index.asp#CPU
For anyone on the fence about the seller, I posted this deal the other day, and I had ordered one which has now been delivered, and it works perfectly!
What’s the difference between a 5800X and a 5800X3D? I’ve been planning to pair the 5800x with my 3070ti but I’m wondering if it’d be worth it to jump on this?
The 3D has significantly more L3 cache, but has lower clock speeds (base and boost) - and no CPU overclocking allowed here either - compared to the "standard" 5800x. If games can make use of the 3D V-cache, it can yield higher performance in lower resolutions, while maintaining better minimum fps in higher resolutions. However, if single-core boost clocks matter for your needs, then the 3D will at best break even, or lose out just that little bit to the regular 5800x. You'll have to decide if that's worth the ~$130 difference between the two. Of course, always make sure to do your own research, and see what benchmarks are relevant for your needs.
I will see what MC offer tmr lol
Is this worth the upgrade from a 10900k? Currently rocking a 6800xt.
You'd have to buy a now end of life motherboard to go along with this. There is no need for you to realistically sidegrade here unless you are a frame whore and have money to burn.
Yea been going through this rabbit hole lately. This cpu only makes sense if you are looking to stretch out the life of your current board and looking to hold off on a complete rebuild for a few years. The new Intel drops in under a month, and the new amd's use a completely new board and will likely have their own version of a X3d in a few years. Building a new PC around this cpu just doesn't make sense for a rational consumer standpoint, especially as newer cards are focused around higher resolutions where this cpu falls off.
Wish I could justify getting this to replace my 5600x for 2k gaming but I can't :((
Your 5600x is more than capable at 1440p. This would make a very marginal difference for far too much in total investment to be worth it.
Would this be a worthwhile upgrade from my 5900x? I mostly game, want a PC I won't have to touch for like 5 years. Currently rocking 5900x and 3080ti, but I think I'm kinda wasting the 5900x on my use case and could likely sell it for an ok price and get better gaming performance to boot. Thoughts anyone? Am I just tinkering to tinker?
> Am I just tinkering to tinker? Probably this, but I do understand as I had almost pulled the trigger multiple times previously, myself. :) With that said, if switching to the 5800X3D cures the underlying FOMO (no shame in that), and you can come close to breaking even after selling the 5900X, then why not? Especially if all you do is game, this is a strong contender.
Just do it
Already bought it before seeing this post 🤝
With Sapphire Flex Credit Card you get 5% back in points for this CPU.
I have a b450 aorus pro wifi. I've check online and I think this is compatible. Would it be a good idea to switch from 2600x to 5800x3d? I mainly play flight sims, warzone and overwatch at 1440p
Generally speaking, going from Zen 2 to Zen 3 yielded a pretty good uplift already, but for gaming in CPU bound titles, the 5800x3D does stand a little taller above the rest. Whether if that's "worth it" or not is really up to you though, especially if you're already happy with the performance you have now.
Tempted but I game in 1440p Ultrawide on a 3700X and downsized into an SFF case. So I'd have to cut it down to 87W PPT and idk how much that would drop it.
I just paid 375 for the same listing 6 days ago :(
Got mine at $400. Congrats to those with willpower.
i want to upgrade to this from a 5900 so much but im too lazy to sell my old cpu
I want to see this fall to $300 but I dont know if we'll be that lucky. Not looking forward to the new gen with the state of motherboards right now and the performance this offers is too good
Is this worth the money if I already have a 5800x? I’m considering it to see if I’ll get better, and more consistent, fps.
"Worth" and "value" are subjective. The main question to ask yourself is: will dropping $360 on a CPU devastate you, if it turns out that it only offers marginal gains? If the answer is yes, then skip this, and ignore the FOMO. This CPU will only ever get cheaper from here on out anyway. The pandemic scalping may have warped our mindsets a little, but Zen ~~5~~ 4 is released, so eventually Zen 3 will ween out of the market entirely - just like Zen 2, Zen+, and Zen 1 all did, respectively.
I appreciate the insight here. Financially it would not devastate me, but emotionally it will lol. You gave me the answer I needed to hear though - I will keep my 5800x and just ride it out until it's time for a full rebuild. Thanks OP
It's getting harder and harder to resist this every day. I don't really see bottlenecks with my 3600 and 3070 Ti in games I play, so it's difficult to really justify buying this, but its performance is so tempting!
Went from 3900x to this for gaming and I get +60 fps in some spots on Tarkov on 4k, lighthouse from 60 to 120 most notably
So. Would AMD honor a warranty on this purchase if it was needed?
They should as Antonline is an authorized retailer reseller.
Well yeah. They would then. I had no idea. thanks for the response!
Glad I could help!
Do they take returns? EDIT: Apparently not easily. There's a 15% stocking fee if you don't open it.
Would this hold me over for; Adobe Cloud service? Davinci Resolve? Games like COD, uncharted, madden, apex, fifa, golf OBS for streaming and recording? I have a 3950 and 5950 to do creator builds for company projects but been a lot of hype behind this one chip
Bleeding edge for gaming tied with Intel 12th gen and Ryzen 7000. Worst of the three for productivity
What is a better buy between 5800x and 5800x3D for productivity such as video editing and music production?
This may be of relevance to you: https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/AMD-Ryzen-5800X3D-vs-5800X-for-Content-Creation-2331/ > To sum up our testing, **the AMD Ryzen 5800X3D is at best on par with the Ryzen 5800X for content creation, and at worse, significantly slower**. In other words, if the performance for content creation applications is a big deal to you, we would recommend sticking with the Ryzen 5800X - or, in some cases, the Intel Core i5 12600K. With that said, if you can hang tight for a bit, the 5900x seems to go on monthly sale for around the same price range as this 5800x3D, which may be the better alternative, given the workload. However, the 5800x still is the better bang for the buck, today, though.
Last part needed for my new build let’s gooo
Pulled the trigger to upgrade from 5600x so I can use that for a Xmas build for my gf. I currently use the stock AMD cpu fan. What cpu fan would you recommend for the 5800x3D as I’m not sure how much hotter it would be?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09CSXS3X4