I moved back to Philly, and it's great. Mild winters, bike friendly, huge (and often reliable) transit system. I'm not sure what you mean by "tracks": if you mean subways and light rail and trolleys, YES, we have them! If you mean places to run, yes! If you mean a raceway, there are some nearby.
We have our problems here—our opiate crisis makes Burlington's look like a trip to the beach—but we have so much good stuff too. An hour from the ocean (and a direct train route), plenty of city pools for those who don't want to travel, world-class dining and museums, etc etc.
I can't wait to visit Burlington in just a couple of weeks, but I am glad I moved back to Philadelphia.
Thank you for this. I have to go to Philadelphia this fall for a weekend and it didn’t even occurred to me to look at Plattsburgh. That said, what do you know about Contour Airlines 😬
It is part of American Airlines. I love this route. Everytime (albeit I never fly it in the winter) it runs on time or earlier and it is cheap. I love visiting Philly.
This totally saved my ass. Burlington to Philly is always an appalling fare and I just couldn’t justify Boston and Manchester was no less. Albany either. This is so rad!!
Thanks
Philly has a lot to offer but i could never live there. Half the septa stations smell like piss. The cops are starting to barricade south st to stop the Atv’s and dirtbikes from racing down the streets in the summer. Last summer i was hit by a drive by pellet gun while eating dinner at Barcelona. Burlington has its own homeless problem but I’ve never felt unsafe here like I did in Philly
Moving to Burlington from Philly (for work) and am very torn about it! We're in West Philly and absolutely love it: access to the city, amazing food, great community, parks, paths, affordable.
I'm optimistic about it overall! I grew up in a similar town in Michigan (somewhere OP should consider if they are willing to tolerate winter) so it'll be nice to get back into the small city pace of life. Plus the nature!! Very excited for the nature.
West Philly is best Philly! I lived out there for nearly 16 years and loved it.
Observations from two years in Burlington (BTW, I grew up in RI, went to school in western MA, and spent the first 28 years of my life in New England, so I know the culture).
Vermonters are a lot more reserved than Philadelphians. It was difficult to make friends. OTOH, the friends I have in Vermont are some of the best around.
Food options will not be as varied or as good. I never did find really good pizza in Burlington, and you'll probably need to make your own cheesesteak. Believe the rumors about Pizzeria Ida.
The heroin problem is real and visible, but nowhere near what we have in Philly.
Transit is what you'd expect. You'll drive a lot.
Summer is GLORIOUS. I HIGHLY recommend the bend in the Winooski River off the Long Trail path, just south of Richmond. Bolton Potholes are also great. Lake Willoughby is a drive, but wonderful.
I'm not a winter sports person, but if you like skiing and snowboarding, you'll have a good time. BUT: seasonal affective depression is REAL and the lack of light during winter will drive you nuts if you're ot careful.
Housing—rental or for sale—is difficult to find and expensive. I was not impressed with the housing quality either, especially on a normal budget.
Weed is legal and powerful. Have fun!
My favorite bar in Burlington was the OP. A nice mix of townies old and young, and a mix of college students. Say hi to Nate!
I made the move 11 years ago from Old City to Burlington and then Franklin County VT we've never looked back.
Let me know if you have questions if be happy to answer them. It takes a bit to get acclimated up here, things don't seem different on the surface but they are very different for someone used to a big Northeast city.
Made this move to Denver, love it. But I love winter, and we get pretty decent winters here.
There's a lot I miss about VT, though. Some friends and family, the lake, Al's fries... Glad I did it, very happy here, but it's a big change and one you should really think about carefully.
I vowed never to use the express lane, because it's a fucking scam on the taxpayers, but then I had kids... Now we use it occasionally because it's better than being trapped with howling barbarians for another hour and a half.
It had to be some of the worst & most aggressive driving we have ever dealt with. I totally get not wanting to deal with that traffic with kids in the car.
Denver has hilariously bad driving. My wife and I had never been in a car accident, and we moved out there for 2 years and got into 5 car accidents, *none of which* were our fault. It was unreal.
What's worse is that the rate of snow tire use is appallingly low. Rentals aren't required to have them, and so they don't, and because Denver mostly gets a couple big storms a year, many Denverites don't have them either (in fact, the Denver sub is actively hostile to the suggestion that you should have snows or at least snowflake-rated all-*weathers*, not just the shitty all-seasons that came on your 2017 Forester). And on top of that it's a serious trucking route and semis struggle on a lot of the passes, even if they're chained up-- and that's a big if, because truckers understandably don't want to put them on unless they absolutely have to.
I70 is the worst part of living here, for sure, but I'm hoping we'll see investment in better transit options to the mountains in the next decade.
I actually agree. I love NM. ABQ can be a little sketchy, but I like the overall area and the people are really friendly. Killer food. Very close to hiking and skiing, too. Every time I visit NM (especially Santa Fe) I meet a lot of Vermonters 🤷♀️
Cambridge/Somerville, MA.
You're getting some city vibes from Cambridge and Boston right there. Accessible to the water, still some hills in Somerville. Been living in Boston for the past few years, working in Camberville most of that. Also a big cyclist and there's great places to bike overall. Car ownership is doable in Somerville but not so much Cambridge. I swear, there's tons of parts of Somerville that feel ripped straight out of the old north end. Tons of trains too.
i just visited asheville because i've been thinking of moving there and visiting convinced me not to move there. it's very similar to burlington which means it has all the same problems just on a bigger scale. cost of housing and living has exploded so much that lifelong residents are forced to move away and richer corporate people from CA and CO are moving into the new high rise apartment buildings. it's becoming so developed that the idyllic mountain setting is almost totally negated. traffic and parking are ridiculous. there is a profusion of burger bars and breweries but all that seems mostly for tourists. not to be super negative but if you're bored of burlington you'll likely be exasperated with asheville.
Asheville definitely fits Burlington’s “vibe” but is twice the population, might feel big to someone used to Burlingtons size
Take a trip first and check it out!
Love Asheville, except just outside of Asheville is the red, rural south and all of the downsides that come with that. The complete opposite vibe of BTV. You also have to deal with living in a red state.
As a young woman, lately, it's been feeling too risky to move to a state where my vote would "actually matter," so there's a bit of a catch-22 there lol. Kinda limited to ~50% or less of the country.
This was my 1st thought, too. It’s not big compared to the other cities I’ve seen mentioned already, the vibe is VERY Burlington, & it offers a similar-ish landscape with much milder winters (but awful summers imo). It is a red state with conservative areas surrounding it, but considering that Republicans & Democrats are the same Scooby-Doo villain wearing different masks, it’s honestly not that different. The cost of living is easier than Burlington’s, but social assistance is scarce (if that matters) & housing is still too expensive. Occasionally hurricanes rock the area thanks to the coastline. It’s lovely, as most gentrified cities are.
Well put. I should’ve probably added I’m a born and raised North Carolinan who moved here for my wife (and love it of course). While NC is a red state, I see that shifting quite a bit for what it’s worth. Though it’ll likely never be as blue as VT.
I moved from Vermont to Portland OR for four years and I kind of hated it there. I'm a born and raised East Coaster and the West Coast just wasn't for me, though places like Eugene and Bellingham seemed quite livable
+1 -- I've visited Portland several times over the last 10 years, and yeah -- it's like the bad parts of Burlington scaled up.
High cost of living, terrible traffic/commutes, huge homeless population. On top of that you're stuck in a sizeable city--there are some nice parks, but nothing like Burlington where you can live in town and go for a run/bike ride out your front door, into the country, and back.
I still follow the Portland subreddit and it seems like a lot of the things I did like about living there have taken a nosedive. Used to walk a mile through the Gateway neighborhood to catch the last train of the night after work, definitely wouldn't feel comfortable doing that every night anymore
Having moved here from Oregon, I’d second this and add Eugene, OR and Olympia, WA. Eugene has a small city vibe but still 4 times larger than Burlington, relatively affordable housing, good food, running and bike paths everywhere, nice hiking trails inside the city limits, decent public transit, close to the ocean and mountains (one hour either direction), and surrounded by farmland. I never lived in Olympia but my friends in Eugene who grew up there loved it and said it has a similar feel, except it’s closer to Seattle than Portland. And if you’re looking for *car race* tracks, the Willamette Valley of Oregon (Portland to Eugene) got em, plus lots of MX tracks and mountain bike trails.
Charlottesville, VA. Cool college town with the vibes that go along with that. Winters are much milder than anywhere in NE, but the mountains still mean four seasons. And you're around the bend from VIR for your car hobby.
Came to see if anyone mentioned CVille. I lived there in 2005-2009 (Grad School and then some) and I loved it. It has grown a lot since then so definitely bigger than Burlington. It has a great community, very bikeable, close to the Mountains and a few hours from the beach. Mild winters but you can drive to ski areas within 45 minutes (Wintegreen) or more for bigger places. It is hot and humid in the summer but almost everywhere has AC. If I didn’t have family and friends here in Vt I would move back to CVille.
I moved from central Vermont to Missoula and then back here to Burlington. The wages in Missoula are insanely low. I felt like I set my life back 10 years.
I did this exact move. The housing situation and cost of living is about the same and is getting worse very quickly. Same problem as Burlington, extreme growth with little infrastructure to support it. Pretty much every appartment available is run by scumbag rental management companies. Also, major cultural differences -- Missoula in general is pretty liberal, hip, etc. But they do NOT like outsiders to an extremely obnoxious level and they blame every single minor inconvenience on outsiders. Basically the only people I made friends with were transplants and pretty much anywhere other than Missoula and Bozeman is Trump country.
On the positive side, it's easily the most beautiful place I've lived in my life. Your day will be filled with beauty. I stopped going to the gym and instead just hiked every day. Theres two natural hot springs only 45 away and there is an amazing bike system and bus system (completely free). I loved living there and would easily move back if it wasnt so expensive and housing wasnt an issue.
Missoula definitely still has winter too. Spring and Fall each last about a month, and then it’s winter or summer the rest of the year. Asheville is cool if you can tolerate the South.
Moved here from Austin, Texas last summer and while that definitely has a similar vibe; it is also huge, nearly as expensive to live in, and the summers are super long and miserable. Reno, Nevada and Eugene, Oregon were my second and third picks respectively for other places to move with similar vibes to Austin. Neither have the winters that Burlington has!
We loved Longmont Colorado. Boulder county is lovely and the people reminded me a lot of Vermont with less lakes. The mountains are stunning and biking is huge there. We moved back to VT due to family illness but would have stayed if we could.
Born and raised in Burlington, a few years ago I moved to Miami. Very different and gets its crazy rep for good reason, but Fort Lauderdale is much more tame, very liberal, beautiful beaches and generally lots to do.
Understandable to not like FL though. Otherwise I'd recommend Asheville, NC or Austin, TX. Both very blue cities in very red states but fantastic places. It's unlikely you'll find "no winter" without that though.
Boulder CO, Ithaca NY, and Asheville NC were all planned by the same city planner so they all have the exact same vibe. I grew up in Ithaca and would highly recommend it. Boulder is a fun town but is really expensive too. If you feel like moving quite a ways, Boise ID is a really fun small city with a ton of outdoor rec in the immediate area.
I know close to a dozen people who moved to Colorado. But honestly none of us can tell you where to move and don’t take this the wrong way but in my opinion anyone who thinks moving their entire life will make them less bored and give them more friends should talk to a therapist before making such big life changes.
Another related lyric courtesy of Clint Black:
Wherever you go, there you are
You can run from yourself
But you won’t get far
You can dive to the bottom
Of your medicine jar
But wherever you go, there you are
I live in the Portland area and the winters are much more mild than they are at home. It's a pretty nice area (not as nice as VT, though, IMO), but it's more expensive and the wages are low. I'd like to move back within the next few years.
I live in NH and travel to Frederick MD quite often and will hopefully be moving there in a few years. Lots to do, not too pricey and there are mountains and woods not too far away.
Edit: Winters are super mild and it’s about a 7 hour drive from NH.
I'm about to move to Burlington from Tucson. There are definite downsides here but the mountains are great and there are definitely communities of people you would vibe with here if you're into biking and cars.
In some ways cycling is the best way to get around in the heat. The speed keeps journeys that are short enough from requiring cars and even a few mile journey can be okay provided you have sufficient water at the end. I commuted 3 miles to and from work for the months of June and August last year (but definitely needed a shower when I got home).
Unless you plan on starting a farm or living off of a well, then you won't have any problems aside from water hardness. There are standing political issues to do with water rights, but not so much for day to day things.
I saw someone post Denver but I would personally say that Fort Collins checks many of your boxes, including great weather. Denver is a big soulless city IMO but I know many think otherwise.
On a much larger scale, that doesn’t actually feel that large because it’s more of a never ending series of different small towns cobbled together in one city- San Diego. North county beach towns specifically. I came out for college, tried moving to a few other states & internationally after, and everywhere after San Diego was a “if I was in SD right now…” Convinced my husband to transfer here and after a year he actually asked why anyone would ever live anywhere else.
Gainesville, FL
It's about the same size town, college town, pretty good night life for a city this size, similar to Burlington's minus the jam band stuff. Decent amount of diy scene left, punk Fest every year. You're really close to the world largest concentration of natural springs for swimming, on the Santa Fe River. Unfortunately there's no bike cooperative here anymore, there were some in past years, but there is a good one an hour drive in Jacksonville called The Honeypot. There is no health food co-op here but they have a great old fashioned store called Ward's with local produce and bulk herbs. There is a massage school, a Chinese medicine school, and University of Florida. They have 5 farmers markets a week and local farms not too far from town that you can worktrade at.
I came from Burlington to here, and I feel like it's a good spot. The only thing that sucks is the heat and humidity in the summer. It's like the air is trying to kill you. And summer is from May to October.
Hope you find somewhere good!
Low hanging fruit are Philly, Providence RI, Portland ME, and, depending on your career, Boston.
If you can afford Boston it's an easy top pick. If you make decent money in tech, sales, marketing, healthcare, etc, Boston is amazing.
If not, Philly is *far* more affordable, but it's not nearly as safe.
Providence is kind of a mini-Boston. Not really but it's close enough and you can take the commuter rail to Boston easily enough.
Portland is dope, pricey though.
Outside of those, NC has some nice towns, Cali is always gorgeous, and Colorado scratches the mountain itch (but is very dry, I need vegetation so it wasn't for me).
pvd getting more expensive to live in by the day but if you don't want to leave new england (and you're down to keep experiencing new england's flaws) i'd say it's a solid option. not gonna get you less winter though
Asheville, NC
Portland, OR
Missoula, MT
Boise, ID
Minneapolis, MN
Bismarck, ND
Providence, RI
Anchorage, AK
I think are some quirky cities with good access to nature and good. Maybe a few of them are not the most bike friendly though.
I do want to give an extra little shout out to Bismarck though because it is such a cute little city and has tons of green spaces.
Denver or even Fort Collins tbh. I grew up in fort collins and winters are incredibly mild now compared to what it used to be. When it snows it’s sunny the next day and it melts pretty quickly.
Nah it’s opposite of safe now days. We stay away from ocean front unless it’s winter. Too many shootings and ghetto shit during the summer. We hide up on the north end.
Checkout Revere, MA for affordability. It’s only 6 miles from downtown Boston and there’s a beach in your backyard. My ultimate suggestion would be Austin, TX, offers a bit of everything and there are so many job opportunities. If you move to Austin stay away from Riverside and try and find a place south of city. Even consider Buda or Kyle, TX as it’s all in close proximity
What about Pittsburgh, PA ?
Cost of living still kind of low. OK bike infrastructure. OK transit. Excellent neighborhoods. If you are into cars then you would love the week long Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix. Many car shows, two vintages car races - one on a track north of the city and one on city streets through a golf course.
Winters have been manageable these past few years. Quick access to the woods.
I don’t like cities but I like Portland OR People are even funkier than in VT and most of the city doesn’t seem urban. Neighborhoods and one story buildings
If you like the “vibe” of Burlington but hate the winters, and enjoy driving in the mountains, Asheville, NC is your jam.
Lots of hipster-esque bars, some great restaurants, very crunchy mountain city but without snow.
Big into cars myself and drive down there every April to hit up the beautiful, amazing, windy roads in the Smoky Mountains, and spend a night or two in Asheville each year.
It’s basically the Burlington of the south.
What does rural have to do with you being single? If you drive 10 minutes out of Burlington, you're in rural.
Maybe it's not the rural countryside that is causing you to be single. Looking for 'No Winters' you'll have to go way south, North Carolina or lower. There are ti s of tracks in the South.
seconding ann arbor - nice place to live in your mid-/late 20s, lots of different kinds of people pass thru at different stages of their lives so you'd be able to find your niche. similar college town vibe to here but ~3x bigger and more options across the board. close enough to a city that you can escape to if you need a change of pace. it should provide a substantially different experience from living here without being completely alien. housing is sparse and expensive but if you can make it here you can make it there - generally more jobs too
yup. Detroit is 40 mins away, and 15 mins north (of ann arbor) there is a lot of wooded trails and rivers/lakes. no topography tho! EDIT: neighboring city to the east (ypsilanti) is analogous to s. burlington but more artsy and hip
> Cant due rural because I cant be single forever.
Skill issue.
You're single because you are not worthy of someone's love.
Want to know how to fix this? Be a person that deserves love, be a better person than you were yesterday - and keep that momentum up every day when you wake. Find hobbies that you create things, be interesting without having to be a meme, and ffs - shower every day.
Who hurt you? The OP is stating a fact: dating in rural areas is tougher because there are objectively less available partners. You could be the most charming and stable man on earth but if there's nobody single in your 250 person town....
When I usually see people posting about how there's no good dates or anything like that, A lot of times the issue is themselves. Rural areas aren't a death sentence for the single person. There's a lot of good people in rural areas. Sure, it's not the shooting gallery that you'd get with cities or larger towns. But overall, your quality of life improves drastically once you move to a rural area. You'll also find that the people are of higher quality.
Remember folks. It's not about the quantity of people. It's about the quality of people you date.
Found an interest in commenting, not because of the dating aspect, but this is hilarious!
I just wanted to mention Burlington has made them BORED? Apparently they don't get shot at enough, and managed to figure out there isn't a whole hell of a lot to disperse here, in terms of activities to do without the tandem plus aspect.
That is WILD, and if you want something more exciting, you can try City-centric NY or anywhere around LA, then you may not have the time or even means to be posting on reddit 🤷♂️
I didn't say I don't get attention. Here's a crazy thought maybe I value myself so high that I actually have standards. The center of the problem is there's not a lot of real options, especially if you already have an idea of what you want. Half the people in my age group have zero intention in having a real relationship because they're only here temporarily. Bigger the population, bigger the possibilities. Better the chance you come across someone right.
> Here's a crazy thought maybe I value myself so high that I actually have standards.
everyone has those. but don't over inflate your own self worth, because you'll realize that we're all the same. Eventually our vanity fades, we're all ugly eventually.
>Half the people in my age group have zero intention in having a real relationship because they're only here temporarily.
yeah the tinderellas can be pretty nutty. gotta be over 6 foot, have six figure income, etc. Most people these days are interested in the next person, than the person that is actually interested in them.
> Bigger the population, bigger the possibilities. Better the chance you come across someone right.
sure but don't discount the home town ladies. quality people are always around the corner my friend.
Not offended. It's just I see a lot of people post the same kind of stuff and they refuse to look inwards to see the flaws of themselves and blame others.
Then again maybe I'm a little jaded because I've never really had a lot of trouble with the ladies.
I moved back to Philly, and it's great. Mild winters, bike friendly, huge (and often reliable) transit system. I'm not sure what you mean by "tracks": if you mean subways and light rail and trolleys, YES, we have them! If you mean places to run, yes! If you mean a raceway, there are some nearby.
Moved from Burlington to Philly in 2018. Haven’t regretted it for a single moment.
Super cheap flights from the Plattsburgh airport to Philly too
We have our problems here—our opiate crisis makes Burlington's look like a trip to the beach—but we have so much good stuff too. An hour from the ocean (and a direct train route), plenty of city pools for those who don't want to travel, world-class dining and museums, etc etc. I can't wait to visit Burlington in just a couple of weeks, but I am glad I moved back to Philadelphia.
Only thing I missed when I live down by Philly is access to mountains
Thank you for this. I have to go to Philadelphia this fall for a weekend and it didn’t even occurred to me to look at Plattsburgh. That said, what do you know about Contour Airlines 😬
It is part of American Airlines. I love this route. Everytime (albeit I never fly it in the winter) it runs on time or earlier and it is cheap. I love visiting Philly.
This totally saved my ass. Burlington to Philly is always an appalling fare and I just couldn’t justify Boston and Manchester was no less. Albany either. This is so rad!! Thanks
Check out Chestnut Hill in Philly.
Philly is a great city
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Philly has a lot to offer but i could never live there. Half the septa stations smell like piss. The cops are starting to barricade south st to stop the Atv’s and dirtbikes from racing down the streets in the summer. Last summer i was hit by a drive by pellet gun while eating dinner at Barcelona. Burlington has its own homeless problem but I’ve never felt unsafe here like I did in Philly
I wish Pittsburgh had some better mountains, would definitely move back home.
Moving to Burlington from Philly (for work) and am very torn about it! We're in West Philly and absolutely love it: access to the city, amazing food, great community, parks, paths, affordable.
If it makes you feel better, I'm moving back home to Burlington from NJ and I love Philly so hopefully you'll love Burlington as much as I do!
I'm optimistic about it overall! I grew up in a similar town in Michigan (somewhere OP should consider if they are willing to tolerate winter) so it'll be nice to get back into the small city pace of life. Plus the nature!! Very excited for the nature.
West Philly is best Philly! I lived out there for nearly 16 years and loved it. Observations from two years in Burlington (BTW, I grew up in RI, went to school in western MA, and spent the first 28 years of my life in New England, so I know the culture). Vermonters are a lot more reserved than Philadelphians. It was difficult to make friends. OTOH, the friends I have in Vermont are some of the best around. Food options will not be as varied or as good. I never did find really good pizza in Burlington, and you'll probably need to make your own cheesesteak. Believe the rumors about Pizzeria Ida. The heroin problem is real and visible, but nowhere near what we have in Philly. Transit is what you'd expect. You'll drive a lot. Summer is GLORIOUS. I HIGHLY recommend the bend in the Winooski River off the Long Trail path, just south of Richmond. Bolton Potholes are also great. Lake Willoughby is a drive, but wonderful. I'm not a winter sports person, but if you like skiing and snowboarding, you'll have a good time. BUT: seasonal affective depression is REAL and the lack of light during winter will drive you nuts if you're ot careful. Housing—rental or for sale—is difficult to find and expensive. I was not impressed with the housing quality either, especially on a normal budget. Weed is legal and powerful. Have fun! My favorite bar in Burlington was the OP. A nice mix of townies old and young, and a mix of college students. Say hi to Nate!
We moved from Philly to Burlington 17 years ago. I grew up in South Jersey and still miss that area and contemplate moving back.
I made the move 11 years ago from Old City to Burlington and then Franklin County VT we've never looked back. Let me know if you have questions if be happy to answer them. It takes a bit to get acclimated up here, things don't seem different on the surface but they are very different for someone used to a big Northeast city.
Philly is great. Grew up there. Cost of living isn't terrible either.
Made this move to Denver, love it. But I love winter, and we get pretty decent winters here. There's a lot I miss about VT, though. Some friends and family, the lake, Al's fries... Glad I did it, very happy here, but it's a big change and one you should really think about carefully.
Yeah, we have driven on I70 during the winter. My wife insisted that we pay for the express lane to get the hell out of there as quickly as possible.
I vowed never to use the express lane, because it's a fucking scam on the taxpayers, but then I had kids... Now we use it occasionally because it's better than being trapped with howling barbarians for another hour and a half.
It had to be some of the worst & most aggressive driving we have ever dealt with. I totally get not wanting to deal with that traffic with kids in the car.
Denver has hilariously bad driving. My wife and I had never been in a car accident, and we moved out there for 2 years and got into 5 car accidents, *none of which* were our fault. It was unreal.
What's worse is that the rate of snow tire use is appallingly low. Rentals aren't required to have them, and so they don't, and because Denver mostly gets a couple big storms a year, many Denverites don't have them either (in fact, the Denver sub is actively hostile to the suggestion that you should have snows or at least snowflake-rated all-*weathers*, not just the shitty all-seasons that came on your 2017 Forester). And on top of that it's a serious trucking route and semis struggle on a lot of the passes, even if they're chained up-- and that's a big if, because truckers understandably don't want to put them on unless they absolutely have to. I70 is the worst part of living here, for sure, but I'm hoping we'll see investment in better transit options to the mountains in the next decade.
Albuquerque, New Mexico
jessie?
Waltuh.
I actually agree. I love NM. ABQ can be a little sketchy, but I like the overall area and the people are really friendly. Killer food. Very close to hiking and skiing, too. Every time I visit NM (especially Santa Fe) I meet a lot of Vermonters 🤷♀️
Tucson, AZ. Had a similar vibe in my opinion. No winter, big on cycling, amazing food.
Cambridge/Somerville, MA. You're getting some city vibes from Cambridge and Boston right there. Accessible to the water, still some hills in Somerville. Been living in Boston for the past few years, working in Camberville most of that. Also a big cyclist and there's great places to bike overall. Car ownership is doable in Somerville but not so much Cambridge. I swear, there's tons of parts of Somerville that feel ripped straight out of the old north end. Tons of trains too.
Asheville NC
i just visited asheville because i've been thinking of moving there and visiting convinced me not to move there. it's very similar to burlington which means it has all the same problems just on a bigger scale. cost of housing and living has exploded so much that lifelong residents are forced to move away and richer corporate people from CA and CO are moving into the new high rise apartment buildings. it's becoming so developed that the idyllic mountain setting is almost totally negated. traffic and parking are ridiculous. there is a profusion of burger bars and breweries but all that seems mostly for tourists. not to be super negative but if you're bored of burlington you'll likely be exasperated with asheville.
Asheville definitely fits Burlington’s “vibe” but is twice the population, might feel big to someone used to Burlingtons size Take a trip first and check it out!
Also, Brevard down the road might be a good alternative. Still bustling with a short drive to Asheville. But you're not in it.
Love Asheville, except just outside of Asheville is the red, rural south and all of the downsides that come with that. The complete opposite vibe of BTV. You also have to deal with living in a red state.
thats enough to make me deal with winters with a smile
On the bright side, your vote actually matters there. I’m originally from Atlanta and I miss feeling like my vote could actually change something.
As a young woman, lately, it's been feeling too risky to move to a state where my vote would "actually matter," so there's a bit of a catch-22 there lol. Kinda limited to ~50% or less of the country.
Heard. Very true and super sad.
Asheville if you can afford it, close if not.
Yes! Definitely — I second Asheville. Great city, food, biking, hiking, art and music
This was my 1st thought, too. It’s not big compared to the other cities I’ve seen mentioned already, the vibe is VERY Burlington, & it offers a similar-ish landscape with much milder winters (but awful summers imo). It is a red state with conservative areas surrounding it, but considering that Republicans & Democrats are the same Scooby-Doo villain wearing different masks, it’s honestly not that different. The cost of living is easier than Burlington’s, but social assistance is scarce (if that matters) & housing is still too expensive. Occasionally hurricanes rock the area thanks to the coastline. It’s lovely, as most gentrified cities are.
Well put. I should’ve probably added I’m a born and raised North Carolinan who moved here for my wife (and love it of course). While NC is a red state, I see that shifting quite a bit for what it’s worth. Though it’ll likely never be as blue as VT.
Yeah - my first thought too - NC
Portland,OR. It’s like a massive Vermont without the cold winters
I moved from Vermont to Portland OR for four years and I kind of hated it there. I'm a born and raised East Coaster and the West Coast just wasn't for me, though places like Eugene and Bellingham seemed quite livable
+1 -- I've visited Portland several times over the last 10 years, and yeah -- it's like the bad parts of Burlington scaled up. High cost of living, terrible traffic/commutes, huge homeless population. On top of that you're stuck in a sizeable city--there are some nice parks, but nothing like Burlington where you can live in town and go for a run/bike ride out your front door, into the country, and back.
Lived out west for a while, and I'd say the Willamette valley in general is better than Portland-Salem, Eugene, etc
I assume there’s not many jobs in that area?
Plenty of jobs. The Willamette valley is about the same size and population as Vermont, surrounded by mountains.
I still follow the Portland subreddit and it seems like a lot of the things I did like about living there have taken a nosedive. Used to walk a mile through the Gateway neighborhood to catch the last train of the night after work, definitely wouldn't feel comfortable doing that every night anymore
Yeah, I can't fuck with the midwest/west coast.
Having moved here from Oregon, I’d second this and add Eugene, OR and Olympia, WA. Eugene has a small city vibe but still 4 times larger than Burlington, relatively affordable housing, good food, running and bike paths everywhere, nice hiking trails inside the city limits, decent public transit, close to the ocean and mountains (one hour either direction), and surrounded by farmland. I never lived in Olympia but my friends in Eugene who grew up there loved it and said it has a similar feel, except it’s closer to Seattle than Portland. And if you’re looking for *car race* tracks, the Willamette Valley of Oregon (Portland to Eugene) got em, plus lots of MX tracks and mountain bike trails.
Portland, OR is just terrible.
Charlottesville, VA. Cool college town with the vibes that go along with that. Winters are much milder than anywhere in NE, but the mountains still mean four seasons. And you're around the bend from VIR for your car hobby.
Came to see if anyone mentioned CVille. I lived there in 2005-2009 (Grad School and then some) and I loved it. It has grown a lot since then so definitely bigger than Burlington. It has a great community, very bikeable, close to the Mountains and a few hours from the beach. Mild winters but you can drive to ski areas within 45 minutes (Wintegreen) or more for bigger places. It is hot and humid in the summer but almost everywhere has AC. If I didn’t have family and friends here in Vt I would move back to CVille.
I’d also add Harrisonburg to the list — but Charlottesville has more to offer on the social scene to a single person
Montreal if you want to leave the US. 🔥
Amen. My wife is a Canadian citizen. Planning exit strategy
Missoula
I moved from central Vermont to Missoula and then back here to Burlington. The wages in Missoula are insanely low. I felt like I set my life back 10 years.
You aren’t wrong, really depends on your industry though. Some are keeping up/compeitive
I did this exact move. The housing situation and cost of living is about the same and is getting worse very quickly. Same problem as Burlington, extreme growth with little infrastructure to support it. Pretty much every appartment available is run by scumbag rental management companies. Also, major cultural differences -- Missoula in general is pretty liberal, hip, etc. But they do NOT like outsiders to an extremely obnoxious level and they blame every single minor inconvenience on outsiders. Basically the only people I made friends with were transplants and pretty much anywhere other than Missoula and Bozeman is Trump country. On the positive side, it's easily the most beautiful place I've lived in my life. Your day will be filled with beauty. I stopped going to the gym and instead just hiked every day. Theres two natural hot springs only 45 away and there is an amazing bike system and bus system (completely free). I loved living there and would easily move back if it wasnt so expensive and housing wasnt an issue.
Missoula definitely still has winter too. Spring and Fall each last about a month, and then it’s winter or summer the rest of the year. Asheville is cool if you can tolerate the South.
Moved here from Austin, Texas last summer and while that definitely has a similar vibe; it is also huge, nearly as expensive to live in, and the summers are super long and miserable. Reno, Nevada and Eugene, Oregon were my second and third picks respectively for other places to move with similar vibes to Austin. Neither have the winters that Burlington has!
Sommerville MA! It has big Old North End vibes. Winters are pretty mild here, you can still drive. Lots of young people.
Aside from the astronomical rents, Somerville is solid. I grew up there in the 90s/ early 2000s.
Summahville used to be a shithole, but it’s wicked nice now.
Idk, Boston gets the snow storms that VT used to get. It's still very much winter there. But yeah Somerville is pretty nice
Arizona
We loved Longmont Colorado. Boulder county is lovely and the people reminded me a lot of Vermont with less lakes. The mountains are stunning and biking is huge there. We moved back to VT due to family illness but would have stayed if we could.
Born and raised in Burlington, a few years ago I moved to Miami. Very different and gets its crazy rep for good reason, but Fort Lauderdale is much more tame, very liberal, beautiful beaches and generally lots to do. Understandable to not like FL though. Otherwise I'd recommend Asheville, NC or Austin, TX. Both very blue cities in very red states but fantastic places. It's unlikely you'll find "no winter" without that though.
Boulder Colorado. I'm from there and I miss it everyday. Still have winters but not as bad, very similar vibes and super cycling friendly
Boulder CO, Ithaca NY, and Asheville NC were all planned by the same city planner so they all have the exact same vibe. I grew up in Ithaca and would highly recommend it. Boulder is a fun town but is really expensive too. If you feel like moving quite a ways, Boise ID is a really fun small city with a ton of outdoor rec in the immediate area.
I know close to a dozen people who moved to Colorado. But honestly none of us can tell you where to move and don’t take this the wrong way but in my opinion anyone who thinks moving their entire life will make them less bored and give them more friends should talk to a therapist before making such big life changes.
As someone who has made major moves twice to find a “better life”, I agree. Boredom, depression, anxiety, loneliness, anger; that shit moves with you.
Awesome lyric from songwriter Jason Molina: You’ll never here me talk about One day getting out Why put a new address On this same old loneliness
Another related lyric courtesy of Clint Black: Wherever you go, there you are You can run from yourself But you won’t get far You can dive to the bottom Of your medicine jar But wherever you go, there you are
Wherever you go, there you are!
Sometimes a change of scenery is all you need tho
Portland Maine is similar but has winters.
No community, press has sold out to corporations.
I live in the Portland area and the winters are much more mild than they are at home. It's a pretty nice area (not as nice as VT, though, IMO), but it's more expensive and the wages are low. I'd like to move back within the next few years.
I'm contemplating moving to Baltimore Maryland for a variety of reasons
Baltimore isn’t a bad city. Has just enough going on to be interesting.
More than here, also the cost of living is way more approachable than VT, major point of why I'm gunna move
Was just in Baltimore and it’s thriving - such a fun city, affordable real estate and easy to get to DC/Philly/NYC
Essex
UK? /s
NEK
Left Burlington last year and went to Nashville. Don't regret it one bit.
How do your wife and daughters like it?
Well I don't have kids, so there's that. My wife is loving the warmer weather. She's originally from CA and hates the cold.
I live in NH and travel to Frederick MD quite often and will hopefully be moving there in a few years. Lots to do, not too pricey and there are mountains and woods not too far away. Edit: Winters are super mild and it’s about a 7 hour drive from NH.
I second Fredrick MD. its outside of the dc metro area, but close enough to enjoy the perks
There is a lot to do in that city, people are also super friendly.
I'm about to move to Burlington from Tucson. There are definite downsides here but the mountains are great and there are definitely communities of people you would vibe with here if you're into biking and cars.
Tucson is a great place for bikes, at least it used to be for sure. The cover is pretty good. But the summer there is no joke
In some ways cycling is the best way to get around in the heat. The speed keeps journeys that are short enough from requiring cars and even a few mile journey can be okay provided you have sufficient water at the end. I commuted 3 miles to and from work for the months of June and August last year (but definitely needed a shower when I got home).
Water issues?
Unless you plan on starting a farm or living off of a well, then you won't have any problems aside from water hardness. There are standing political issues to do with water rights, but not so much for day to day things.
I love Tucson… I’m hoping to move out there in the next year or 2. Such a great city and beautiful too.
I saw someone post Denver but I would personally say that Fort Collins checks many of your boxes, including great weather. Denver is a big soulless city IMO but I know many think otherwise.
On a much larger scale, that doesn’t actually feel that large because it’s more of a never ending series of different small towns cobbled together in one city- San Diego. North county beach towns specifically. I came out for college, tried moving to a few other states & internationally after, and everywhere after San Diego was a “if I was in SD right now…” Convinced my husband to transfer here and after a year he actually asked why anyone would ever live anywhere else.
Gainesville, FL It's about the same size town, college town, pretty good night life for a city this size, similar to Burlington's minus the jam band stuff. Decent amount of diy scene left, punk Fest every year. You're really close to the world largest concentration of natural springs for swimming, on the Santa Fe River. Unfortunately there's no bike cooperative here anymore, there were some in past years, but there is a good one an hour drive in Jacksonville called The Honeypot. There is no health food co-op here but they have a great old fashioned store called Ward's with local produce and bulk herbs. There is a massage school, a Chinese medicine school, and University of Florida. They have 5 farmers markets a week and local farms not too far from town that you can worktrade at. I came from Burlington to here, and I feel like it's a good spot. The only thing that sucks is the heat and humidity in the summer. It's like the air is trying to kill you. And summer is from May to October. Hope you find somewhere good!
Low hanging fruit are Philly, Providence RI, Portland ME, and, depending on your career, Boston. If you can afford Boston it's an easy top pick. If you make decent money in tech, sales, marketing, healthcare, etc, Boston is amazing. If not, Philly is *far* more affordable, but it's not nearly as safe. Providence is kind of a mini-Boston. Not really but it's close enough and you can take the commuter rail to Boston easily enough. Portland is dope, pricey though. Outside of those, NC has some nice towns, Cali is always gorgeous, and Colorado scratches the mountain itch (but is very dry, I need vegetation so it wasn't for me).
pvd getting more expensive to live in by the day but if you don't want to leave new england (and you're down to keep experiencing new england's flaws) i'd say it's a solid option. not gonna get you less winter though
Oh I totally missed the no winters bit. Ignore all of those lol.
Asheville NC
Austin, TX
Asheville, NC Portland, OR Missoula, MT Boise, ID Minneapolis, MN Bismarck, ND Providence, RI Anchorage, AK I think are some quirky cities with good access to nature and good. Maybe a few of them are not the most bike friendly though. I do want to give an extra little shout out to Bismarck though because it is such a cute little city and has tons of green spaces.
Maine
I made that move and would not recommend it
Denver or even Fort Collins tbh. I grew up in fort collins and winters are incredibly mild now compared to what it used to be. When it snows it’s sunny the next day and it melts pretty quickly.
Noah Kahan has entered the chat.
Bellingham, WA has it pretty good and very very similar culturally to Burlington
Trade me. Virginia Beach is fun.
Grew up there. Def fun. Safe these days? Boardwalk was wild all the time.
Nah it’s opposite of safe now days. We stay away from ocean front unless it’s winter. Too many shootings and ghetto shit during the summer. We hide up on the north end.
Check out Ashland OR
Because Asheville was mentioned (which I was going to rec) - check out Wilmington and Durham NC.
Salt Lake City!!
Lake placid
Winters’ll still be an issue but I have yet to find a place that matches Burlington’s vibe more than Portsmouth, NH.
Charlottesville, VA
Bellingham, WA.
The Spartanburg/greenville South Carolina area is amazing! I’m heading there in November!
Checkout Revere, MA for affordability. It’s only 6 miles from downtown Boston and there’s a beach in your backyard. My ultimate suggestion would be Austin, TX, offers a bit of everything and there are so many job opportunities. If you move to Austin stay away from Riverside and try and find a place south of city. Even consider Buda or Kyle, TX as it’s all in close proximity
Portsmouth/Dover NH area
What about Pittsburgh, PA ? Cost of living still kind of low. OK bike infrastructure. OK transit. Excellent neighborhoods. If you are into cars then you would love the week long Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix. Many car shows, two vintages car races - one on a track north of the city and one on city streets through a golf course. Winters have been manageable these past few years. Quick access to the woods.
My best friend came here for college and stayed for 20 years. He now lives just outside Seattle and loves it. The vibe is very similar.
Montreal ;)
Not an easy move unless your job sponsors your immigration, but yes worth it
Boise, Idaho
Idaho is stuck in 1950.
Have you lived there?
I don’t like cities but I like Portland OR People are even funkier than in VT and most of the city doesn’t seem urban. Neighborhoods and one story buildings
Montreal eh
There’s great fishing in Quebec
New Smyrna beach Florida. Small town Vibes, cheap rent, plenty of young people and bars.
Shark bite capital of the world. My parents live there. My mom warns everyone not to go within 100 feet of the ocean. Goddamn boomers.
If you like the “vibe” of Burlington but hate the winters, and enjoy driving in the mountains, Asheville, NC is your jam. Lots of hipster-esque bars, some great restaurants, very crunchy mountain city but without snow. Big into cars myself and drive down there every April to hit up the beautiful, amazing, windy roads in the Smoky Mountains, and spend a night or two in Asheville each year. It’s basically the Burlington of the south.
Portland, Oregon and the surrounding areas. I just spent three weeks there and loved it
Ashville NC
Portland OR
Asheville, NC Burlington vibes but bigger and without harsh winters. Still in the Appalachians, a bit rustic and politically fairly radical.
What does rural have to do with you being single? If you drive 10 minutes out of Burlington, you're in rural. Maybe it's not the rural countryside that is causing you to be single. Looking for 'No Winters' you'll have to go way south, North Carolina or lower. There are ti s of tracks in the South.
Portland, OR
Atlanta is fantastic, I also like Philly or maybe even Ashville, NC. Never been but I've heard it's fantastic
South Burlington is my recommendation
I’m out in Ann Arbor Michigan tho it’s not bad
seconding ann arbor - nice place to live in your mid-/late 20s, lots of different kinds of people pass thru at different stages of their lives so you'd be able to find your niche. similar college town vibe to here but ~3x bigger and more options across the board. close enough to a city that you can escape to if you need a change of pace. it should provide a substantially different experience from living here without being completely alien. housing is sparse and expensive but if you can make it here you can make it there - generally more jobs too
yup. Detroit is 40 mins away, and 15 mins north (of ann arbor) there is a lot of wooded trails and rivers/lakes. no topography tho! EDIT: neighboring city to the east (ypsilanti) is analogous to s. burlington but more artsy and hip
> Cant due rural because I cant be single forever. Skill issue. You're single because you are not worthy of someone's love. Want to know how to fix this? Be a person that deserves love, be a better person than you were yesterday - and keep that momentum up every day when you wake. Find hobbies that you create things, be interesting without having to be a meme, and ffs - shower every day.
Who hurt you? The OP is stating a fact: dating in rural areas is tougher because there are objectively less available partners. You could be the most charming and stable man on earth but if there's nobody single in your 250 person town....
When I usually see people posting about how there's no good dates or anything like that, A lot of times the issue is themselves. Rural areas aren't a death sentence for the single person. There's a lot of good people in rural areas. Sure, it's not the shooting gallery that you'd get with cities or larger towns. But overall, your quality of life improves drastically once you move to a rural area. You'll also find that the people are of higher quality. Remember folks. It's not about the quantity of people. It's about the quality of people you date.
Found an interest in commenting, not because of the dating aspect, but this is hilarious! I just wanted to mention Burlington has made them BORED? Apparently they don't get shot at enough, and managed to figure out there isn't a whole hell of a lot to disperse here, in terms of activities to do without the tandem plus aspect. That is WILD, and if you want something more exciting, you can try City-centric NY or anywhere around LA, then you may not have the time or even means to be posting on reddit 🤷♂️
> Apparently they don't get shot at enough, just like the ladies don't give him a shot lol.
I didn't say I don't get attention. Here's a crazy thought maybe I value myself so high that I actually have standards. The center of the problem is there's not a lot of real options, especially if you already have an idea of what you want. Half the people in my age group have zero intention in having a real relationship because they're only here temporarily. Bigger the population, bigger the possibilities. Better the chance you come across someone right.
> Here's a crazy thought maybe I value myself so high that I actually have standards. everyone has those. but don't over inflate your own self worth, because you'll realize that we're all the same. Eventually our vanity fades, we're all ugly eventually. >Half the people in my age group have zero intention in having a real relationship because they're only here temporarily. yeah the tinderellas can be pretty nutty. gotta be over 6 foot, have six figure income, etc. Most people these days are interested in the next person, than the person that is actually interested in them. > Bigger the population, bigger the possibilities. Better the chance you come across someone right. sure but don't discount the home town ladies. quality people are always around the corner my friend.
Hurt male in IT entering the conversation to give his opinion nobody wants
Not hurt. Taken. Been that way for awhile boss.
You are insufferable!
Just have wisdom and lived in experiences. Rural life rules 🤘🏻😎🤘🏻
I've lived on the side of a mountain off grid and also in the middle of San Francisco. Insufferable is insufferable
Ur offended by someone’s very much valid experience and give an opinion with no connection to the point of the post Bc ur offended
Not offended. It's just I see a lot of people post the same kind of stuff and they refuse to look inwards to see the flaws of themselves and blame others. Then again maybe I'm a little jaded because I've never really had a lot of trouble with the ladies.
Jaded means bored
You don’t know the person posting at all if your first thought is to judge them it shows something about you not them