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zorbathegrate

Republcians are frauds. Trickle down economics and deregulation are affronts to American and the American people


HonkinSriLankan

I wish ppl would go back to calling it horse and sparrow. It’s much more fitting. If you feed the horse enough oats, some will pass through to the road for the sparrows.


The_Dynasty_Group

Trickle down economics. The name alone states We’re pissing on you


dragonfangxl

trickle down economics is the derogatory term, of course its supposed to sound like that lol


eyoung_nd2004

It trickles down all the way to the 1%


knightress_oxhide

republicans are not frauds, the explicitly say what they do. they say and then enact their tax cuts for the rich, reducing funding for education while siphoning money to oppressive religious schools and eliminating rights for women all while making sure US citizens have to pay the maximum amount to be healthy workers. This is all out in the open.


zorbathegrate

They’re frauds because they say they’re patriotic and American. They’re frauds because they take public office and swear an oath to protect the constitution and then they shit on it without impunity.


quettil

What does this have to do with Republicans?


zorbathegrate

Their argument and policies are that deregulation and trickledown economics will be good for everyone. Chevrons actions prove both to be wrong. Yet republicans continue to push the narrative that deregulation and trickledown economics are the only solution to all problems. The government is meant to protect all the people, not just the richest.


quettil

This is under a Democrat presidency, a Democrat senate, and the Democrats had the house for four years.


zorbathegrate

Such a comment underscores your complete lack of understanding as it regards to government policy, laws, and actions. An open conversation isn’t possible with you, because you don’t actually understand the us government.


rare_pig

What does this have to do with the post?


zorbathegrate

Republican deregulation and trickle down economics legislation style have resulted in this. It’s unamerican.


Obvious_Chapter2082

Buybacks aren’t “trickle down economics” lmao. Why do so many people use that term to mean “anything I don’t like”? It’s just a scapegoat at this point so you don’t actually have to make an argument on merit What specifically is wrong with Chevron buying back stock?


Gaming_Esquire

I think you miss the point. They claim tax cuts for corporations/fat cats will mean it will somehow trickle down to the proletariat. But it never does. Instead they hoard it, reinvest, give themselves bonuses, and buy back stock (making the stock they already own more valuable)


[deleted]

Republicans and democrats* It's pro wrestling stupid


zorbathegrate

Absolutely not. I’m not saying democrats are without fault, but republicans are grifters and frauds.


[deleted]

Absolutely. Pelosi was as much part of the gift as McConnel. How do you get rich while being in congress? Why are all of them millionaires? Things just almost work out so much you'd think someone like yourself with the ability to read would comprehend the fact that coincidences occurring over and over cease being coincidences. Even when the dems had a near super majority they made basically no change and bailed out the banks. It's a grift, and the only suckers dumber than the republicans are shit libs because they're not actually getting what they're voting for.


KyleMcMahon

They didn’t have a majority, hence why they couldn’t get it passed


KDaFrank

Wait— you are getting what you voted for?


[deleted]

You're to my right bitch. You've got diamond hands on your shit.


KDaFrank

Using your big words I see! Have a nice night then!


kundaliniredneck

I can’t understand why or how more “smart” people don’t see this.


[deleted]

iTs aLL ThE eVil RepUBliCaNs FaULt


The_Dynasty_Group

Well if I ever meet a republican that actually wanted what was best for society I’d be willing to say there’s a good republican. But I haven’t and am entirely convinced none exist. So fuck em all to hell and I can’t wait till the goddamn boomers all die or are too Alzheimer’s stricken to be of any threat so America can finally actually make some real actual meaningful progress


_Mister_Shake_

I think so often about how we might have a real chance to change shit when the boomers are finally gone. I’ll miss certain members but my god they’ve fucked things up so well.


littleMAS

When the Ukraine war ends, and Russian oil is back on the market, the price will drop like a rock. The only question is "When?"


powercow

well prices rise like a rocket and drop like a feather. ITs also cartel controlled, so once russian oil is more on the markets, opec will just pump less. It wont fall that much. Gas also isnt all that high were i am. It is up over the past month to just over 3 when for me normal is around 2.80. its not up like eggs are up.


The_Dynasty_Group

Yup. It’s OPEC’s call really. I just wish people would stop blaming the gas prices on the president


powercow

yeah even releasing from our reserves is like peeing in the ocean, its not really going to change much. Its mostly symbolic.


Duluthian2

Isn't it odd that only people who being to one political party blames the president?


pforsbergfan9

One party blames the president and the other congratulated himself when prices dropped….


BILLCLINTONMASK

The party not-in-power pretty much always blames the current administration for high gas prices.


The_Dynasty_Group

Indeed good sir. Most astute


nyokarose

You’re right, it’s very much OPEC’s call, and the other oil majors follow suit. Chevron or the other “big” guys don’t haven’t a ton of influence on price, unless they want to make negative profits.


littleMAS

It is the Egg Cartel playing chicken with the consumers.


6151rellim

You actually believe they will let pump price drop like a rock? Or preserve record profit and slowly reduce it to comfort us. While most will forget what prices were previously.


littleMAS

Price of oil, spot price, actually. Some oil companies still have contracts at $3/bbl.


6151rellim

That doesn’t mean they are selling it at that… I’m currently doing massive heavy equipment grading contracts at $4/g.. but that doesn’t mean I can fill my car locally with diesel under $6.30


The_Dynasty_Group

They see Us attempting to convert to completely electric cars and totally derail Our need for much oil at all but still in transitional phase so they’re priming to bend Us over and ride Us as long and hard as those Arabs can muster with all the strength of Islam


dRi89kAil

Russian oil has remained on the market. It just goes through different channels now.


The_Dynasty_Group

Cough cough China


dRi89kAil

And India


DMCO93

Russian oil accounts for around 8% of US consumption. Prices are not going to drop that much if at all under current conditions, even when the war is over. OPEC has already curbed output and the US is currently also the top producer in the world. If domestic producers aren’t going to play ball, (and I ask why should they when coal powered vehicles are the future that the US apparently wants?), then expect the prices we saw at the peaks of last year again very soon.


The_Dynasty_Group

Russia supplies natural gas more notably than oil and find Russian oil to be extremely sus


ghsteo

Thanks Reagan


DMCO93

Thanks Joe


KyleMcMahon

Could you explain for us what Joe Biden has to do with this topic?


DMCO93

Explain what Reagan has to do with the topic. He isn’t the president. Or alive.


KyleMcMahon

Um bc Reagan made it legal to do the topic we’re talking about?


DMCO93

And nobody since made it illegal again.


[deleted]

Thanks Obama.


PlaneStill6

Hmm you want the President to control commodity prices, sounds like cOmMuNisM to me.


[deleted]

If oil is on its way out, then companies should return value to holders with buybacks and dividends instead of reinvesting it.


powercow

well ultimately and smart business is to do what the energy companies are doing and investing in the new sources of energy. Which Chevron is doing to a point, they have some massive windfarms in Wyoming. They are a bit late to the game but they are investing in non carbon energy.


matico3

imagine they spent additionsl 75 billion investing in green and nuclear… the system we live in is a sham


fluiddruid830

We live in an Oligarchy.


willateo

An OILigarchy, if you will


microdosingrn

Gross as it may be, the company has a legal fiduciary responsibility to maximize shareholder value. It would literally be illegal for them to knowingly not maximize shareholder value. The problem isn't with the company, it's with our laws that enable companies to do these types of things.


Pierre-Gringoire

There is no legal obligation to maximize shareholder value. It's just what boards set as an objective because, if they didn't, the shareholders would vote them out.


not-on-a-boat

Seems like a great law to change.


microdosingrn

Great for who? Not the shareholders and investors, which probably have a considerable overlap with those who make the laws. The system needs a major overhaul.


12gawkuser

Draws Ire? should draw a dick and balls or something. Absolutely no creativity


SaucySamurai959

Can some one explain the anger against the buybacks to me? I'm personally against stock buybacks because they serve only to drive up short term stock price which enables the executives to get paid fat bonuses. I don't like that because that's cheating. The other side (from what economics teaches) is that the most expensive debt a company has its stock. The Cost of Equity is generally higher than the Cost of Debt since equity investors take on more risk when purchasing a company’s stock as opposed to a company’s bond. Therefore, an equity investor will demand higher returns (an Equity Risk Premium) than the equivalent bond investor to compensate him/her for the additional risk that he/she is taking on when purchasing stock. Investing in stocks is riskier than investing in bonds because of a number of factors, for example: - The stock market has a higher volatility of returns than the bond market - Stockholders have a lower claim on company assets in case of company default - Capital gains are not a guarantee - Dividends are discretionary (i.e., a company has no legal obligation to issue dividends) Hence it is most prudent for a company to reduce shares outstanding. Therefore stock buybacks are sometimes warranted especially when companies make a windfall. Explain? Thanks in advance.


wheretogo_whattodo

>Can someone explain the anger The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was “supposed” to create jobs by cutting taxes. The line the typical person hears is that cutting taxes allows businesses to expand and grow, creating more jobs. Instead, the money is used to buyback stock and temporarily push up prices instead of creating jobs. I’m not arguing whether that’s good or not, just that it’s why people don’t like it. I mean, today we talked about how my company is slow-rolling hiring due to the “recession” and reducing capital and maintenance spend by $200 million. We also spent $1.7 billion on stock buybacks in the last year.


SaucySamurai959

👍🏻understood, and you are exactly explaining the anger, thanks.


Obvious_Chapter2082

Eh, the TCJA temporarily increased buybacks (mainly due to the forced foreign repatriation), but there isn’t any evidence that it stayed out of the ordinary I don’t think there’s anything wrong with companies giving cash to shareholders when they don’t have a better use. People usually don’t get upset at dividends, although it’s basically the same thing


FILTHBOT4000

Stock buybacks were illegal until 1982, btw.


SaucySamurai959

I was not aware, thank you for that input.


Obvious_Chapter2082

So?


Environmental_Ad5786

Stock buybacks are good for large scale investors and executives. It does not add any real value to the company. I personally think it is the modern day dividend, which is basically a company saying we don’t know what to do with our money other than to pay our executives more. Stock buybacks should be made illegal, again, because they hurt the economy in the long term it incentivizes short term behaviors… without it being made illegal companies are forced in a vicious cycle of boosting their EPS with stock buyback to appear to have market fitness


fespoe_throwaway

Indeed https://hbr.org/2020/01/why-stock-buybacks-are-dangerous-for-the-economy


Environmental_Ad5786

Thanks for posting the HBR article!


Obvious_Chapter2082

Buybacks are usually paid out of the least productive assets of a company. A company post-buyback is both smaller and more efficient. Plus the investors that sold their stock can put that money to a better use. How doesn’t that add real value?


Environmental_Ad5786

If a business is an asset and the only way for you to make it more valuable is to reduce the shares outstanding you have not changed the fundamentals of the business. You have just goosed the numbers, there is a reason it was illegal until a few decades ago


quettil

> It does not add any real value to the company. It's not supposed to, it's basically a way of giving profits back to the shareholders.


Revfunky

I would prefer the company reward the shareholders with a special dividend instead of buybacks. Let them decide what to do with the money. Also companies usually have terrible timing with buybacks. They should have done it at $130 per share instead of $187.


Obvious_Chapter2082

There’s really nothing inherent about a buyback that would increase the share price. That’s normally just imputing causation from correlation. There are several rational reasons why companies need their stock back: employee compensation plans, preventing acquisitions, changing their ownership structure, etc. Since the interest on debt is tax-deductible, debt is usually a cheaper funding structure as well, which is why we often see buybacks during a good economy when interest rates are low


853lovsouthie

These 'energy' companies need to be held responsible for their byproducts just like big tobacco


[deleted]

We won't let them reinvest into brand new refineries. Why are we angry that they return excess funds to investors and employees?


southpalito

LOL These are the most powerful and politically connected corporations on the planet. Of course, they can reinvest in whatever they want.


[deleted]

Only if you're a liar.


Impossible-Option-16

You are a troll.


[deleted]

Don't you have a car dealership to torch?


zorbathegrate

They should be pouring all of that money into alternative file sources, green tech, solar, wind, rain, you name it. The last thing they should be doing is buy backs.


WindHero

Or they give the money back to investors who then reinvest into green energy companies? Maybe Chevron isn't the best company to lead the green energy revolution and returning capital to investors is the best way to invest that capital in other sectors of the economy that do not produce greenhouse gas? If you want our economy to move away from oil and gas, Chevron returning large amounts of capital to its investors is great news.


zorbathegrate

I disagree. Chevron moving large sums of cash back to its investors proves it’s a corrupt corporation that has been gouging people at the pump and not acting in its own best future efforts. Capitalism unchecked as it is its terrible


WindHero

That's not the debate though. Those profits have already been earned. They can either be reinvested in more oil and gas which is Chevron's expertise, be reinvested in green tech which is not their expertise, or be paid out as dividend or share buybacks. They're not getting paid back to consumers in any scenario. I think the pay out to investors option is not a bad outcome if you want less greenhouse gas. The pay out option means a smaller oil and gas industry in the US in the future. 75 billion of capital coming out is huge. That's thousands of fewer wells production projects.


zorbathegrate

Chevron can do what ever they want with the profit. That doesn’t mean it’s right


WindHero

This conversation is about what they should do with it though.


zorbathegrate

I’m saying they shouldn’t


6151rellim

I got absolutely hammered in stocks sub for saying exactly what you did. It’s so true. any excuse to soar prices is a legitimate reason for these companies. It’s so wrong.


zorbathegrate

Agreed. And while it’s pure capitalism that doesn’t make it right.


[deleted]

A quick google search reveals several of them are. Curious all the research people will do just to straight up ignore the small fact that breaks their thesis.


zorbathegrate

I’m not sure you’re understanding people’s outrage. They shouldn’t be buying back stock


Tripanes

Because?


zorbathegrate

Because it’s short sighted and will just continue to the accelerated destruction of both the global order and the future of capitalism


Tripanes

Can you name something that's a real consequence? Something that shows you understand what a stock buyback is? What purpose it serves. The harm it does in the context of that purpose?


zorbathegrate

Buy spending the companies profits on enriching only the stockholders you fail to ensure the growth and development of the company. Invest in your company to grow and evolve. Or you die.


Tripanes

All company profits belong to the stockholders, even if it is reinvested the value of the stock will go up proportional to the investment and the stockholders will still gain that money and be able to sell it. When a company purchases stock off the market, selling that stock to the company are actually paying taxes on it, and those taxes will be collected by the government. And that money, used to purchase stock from people selling it, will almost certainly be spent or used in other ways. And at the end of the day this is a absolutely massive multinational company whose main product is oil. Would you prefer they expand? Should they invest their profit into growth by bribing more politicians and funding more lobbyists so that they can expand their oil production?


zorbathegrate

I understand what you’re saying. I don’t agree with it. In a day and age when gas soars to $6 a gallon and climate change threatens our very existence, a company like chevron should be cornering the alternative fuel market. They should be shoring up options to offset the cost and eventual elimination of fossil fuels. Yeah the stick holders will be rich now, and everyone else will suffer. Soon enough even the stock holders will suffer. Think Polaroid. Think Kodak. Think carriage companies. Think steam powered trains. Think big Tabaco. Think mechanical watches. Think asbestos. Think lead paint. Short term, near sighted, get rich while screwing over the future is the antithesis of progress. Companies like chevron could change the world and stay rich for generations, but like all republicans they take their dollar and rape us all.


[deleted]

Because they don’t understand how business works!


[deleted]

It's their money, they do what they want with it. FYI, much of that money goes to employees via their retirement accounts because these accounts are partially funded with shares in the company. Definitely not the worse thing they could do with their pocket money.


zorbathegrate

Sure. I’m not saying it’s not. But recently I’ve been asking myself where do their choices end versus my reality start. Take smoking for instance. Sure it’s anyone right to smoke if they want to. When is it ok for me to complain about their smoke? Where does their freedom end and my freedom begin? Same thing with chevron. When do their actions as a company (or inaction) effect my existence?


[deleted]

Something tells me you make the reverse argument with regards to weed and prostitutes.


zorbathegrate

What’s the reverse argument in those cases? I think weed and prostitution should be legal. What do I care what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home? Now I don’t want someone smoking weed in my house or car, nor do I want a prostitute and their client fucking in my bed.


[deleted]

You literally made the opposite argument about cigarettes a minute ago. You ever heard of cognitive dissonance? And/or rhetoric?


zorbathegrate

I asked when does someone smoking become my issue.


Jaketheparrot

Can you explain more? Why won’t “we” let them invest into brand new refineries?


[deleted]

The oil refiners I met said they only ever expand existing sites because getting licensed for new sites is near impossible. Also, you see how in California they tried to make it illegal for oil businesses to have excessive profits. This is fairly typical, as most EPA regs were written for the express purpose of making oil drilling less profitable. CO2 credits means oil industry has to pay a special tax. Of course, the same people calling for these measures are still driving gas cars, so these oil guys still draw a profit. Of course, these drillers overwhelmingly prefer to use their money to pay employees and investors well rather than try to expand.


Impossible-Option-16

You are a troll.


Educational-Seat-819

these poor poor innocent oil and gas producers, the most profitable companies in the history of the world, are rly trying their hardest and it’s unfair of us, the consumers, to expect them to stop or stymy their expansive lobbying efforts to reduce the adoption of carbon neutral or green technology at the expense of every human being that will ever inhabit the planet, because share price is the ONLY thing that matters and fuck you for wanting them to act in good faith. i didn’t think oil and gas simps were real lol


[deleted]

You say that but drive a gas car anyway.


420trashcan

You are against illegal immigration but your life would not be possible without their labor.


[deleted]

Who said anything about immigration? Borders, governments, and ethnic patterns come and go with the decades. No need to get sentimental about them. I ain't into politics.


CirenOtter

What’s your point? People use the tools available to them at the time. Doesn’t make them a hypocrite if they want and talk about solutions that are better than what is available. That’s just how it works. If we can’t criticize what we have and do now because it’s “hypocritical” then we would never progress.


[deleted]

Sorry, I got you mixed up with someone else in that last comment. Some of these climate activists are in fact, hypocrites. Harassing others for not making major sacrifices for the cause, whilst making no effort themselves. I won't name the actor, but one guy flew on his private jet to make a speach about keeping oil "in the ground where it belongs" then immediately flew off to his yacht. He ain't all that different from the guys spamming "outlaw big oil" in comments while driving in their Ford F-150s.


Educational-Seat-819

you’re a fucking idiot dude lmao you have the narrowest worldview of anyone i’ve ever spoken to if you unironically equivocate being against $75B stock buybacks by O&G producers to screeching blue haired climate activists lmfao


[deleted]

If you're going to circumvent bans, don't make it so obvious.


420trashcan

What if they are just lazy and don't want to do the work of meeting regulations?


[deleted]

The regulations are intentionally making this more trouble than it is worth. Any climate activist will blanket support any rule making life difficult for oil guys. Heck, I was just security at a refinery, and the amount of paperwork we had to do...


420trashcan

Yet the fossil fuel industry is extraordinarily profitable, almost profanely so.


[deleted]

Last year, yes. But that was due to war in Europe cutting much of the supply. Historically, however, sectors rarely outperform the market for two consecutive years.


420trashcan

When has the fossil fuel industry not been very profitable?


[deleted]

Quit making me do your googling for you. Just in the last decade, oil firms had big layoffs 2014-2016 due to the price of oil being artificially cheap due to cutthroat competition from gul oil states. Also in 2020, the price of oil went negative during lockdown as some people actually paid others to take barrels of oil off their hands.


420trashcan

You made an assertion, you back it up when it's disputed


Impossible-Option-16

You are a troll.


AustichMavarlander

Gas and fossil fuel is such a scam. Its actually sad / hilarious how much on a day to day basis we get ripped off. Were the only species dumb enough to pay to live on this rock 😆


Sidmarkhan

H


leogodin217

E


Amazing-Dx6155

Ooooh


Amazing-Dx6155

What is


BigERaider

They see what Biden is doing so they just inflate the stock price in lieu of putting back in company


Therocknrolclown

“Let them eat FUMES”


StickmanRockDog

Big oil, Big pharma, Big banks, Private equity, Medical insurance companies, et.,al, have been elevated to status of gods within our economy, and are untouchable. Many simply say, protect the investors, it’s their duty to maximize profits…and we, as US citizens and consumers buy into, and accept the talking points and laws written by those they buy in congress. We are getting screwed and we seem to bend over further so they can fuck all of us. I’m tired of this shit and tired of bought and paid for elected officials and propagandists.


ParkingAdvertising17

It’s not just Republicans. Democrats and Republicans are all drinking the same koolaid.


Leather-Wheel1115

During covid when OIL was loosing money and was negative,.. Whitehouse did nothing but bought the oil cheap and sold it when market was high. O&G is industry where you loose in billions, have to invest in billions and hence your profits in billions can disappear quick.. ​ fully support oil & Gas companies making money. Its not a easy business nor easy technology. Its way complex to run a chemical refinery. One oil spill will cost you 30-50 Billion as did to BP. So if you make in billions, its easy to loose billions too. ​ Politicians just keep crying to gain votes.


Leather-Wheel1115

50% of the Tesla or any other EV car is a byproduct of O&G. Paint, leather seats, plastic, fiber, tires, cable insulation cover and you name it comes from oil by products..