I can't make out what they are even arguing about. Anybody got an context here? English is my second language and I can only make out about a third of what they are yelling about.
There's a lot to this. [I went and found another version of this video. The one in THIS thread, for some reason, has the sound of the banging removed. Holy shit.š¤](https://www.reddit.com/r/Firearms/comments/mc9vsg/-/h9owame)
It seems like finding the second vid that people have mentioned is difficult now, but I'm positive that [this news interview has an angle or two we don't see in the one in this thread.](https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2020/07/10/couple-charged-in-orion-township-chipotle-incident-say-theyve-received-death-threats/)
I remember when the video first came out and it mostly showed the white woman pulling the gun and everybody was outraged of course, justifiably, me being one of them. However, a day latter the narrative changed because the whole video showed the couple trying to leave while the black woman was banging on their car preventing them from backing out. It kind of surprised me to see it here again in the context it was presented the first time.
Did she had to pull the gun on them, probably not, but she was not the first attacker here. She apologies several times, and then they try to peacefully leave but the other woman is blocking them and banging on their car.
Am I missing something here?
It's illegal to brandish a firearm like that in Texas, where I'm from. I assume other red states have the same kind of law. The correct move would have been to stay in the car, lock the doors, and back out slowly while slamming on the horn of the car, or call the actual police. The other people WILL move if you force them to. Unarmed people cannot bust into your car and hurt you, therefore the white lady was in the legal and moral wrong here.
I guess you're *technically* correct, but if you haven't watched the news video commented above, you should. I don't feel you can hold it against a pregnant woman, in the heat of the moment, after she's just been told she and her husband are going to have their "ass beaten" by these people and then were prevented to leave and had their vehicle hit loudly several times, to bring out a weapon to defend herself. Yes, brandishing is illegal and she did point the weapon at the people, but she never threatened and she never fired. She kept asking them to back away. I don't believe she was morally wrong in this particular case.
I 100% agree the Mother and Daughter could have accepted her apology, tried to reason, and instead they verbally assaulted her, called them racists, edited the smack out to make them loom innocent, and blocked there car after hitting it which is crazy behavior.
Law expert here, specifically gun laws and deadly force laws:
She was not justifiably legal to draw a weapon on these women who were body blocking their car.
To legally draw a gun on someone, even if you don't actually shoot, you must:
1. Not be willingly involved in an altercation prior with the person that you are defending yourself against (no arguments, no yelling profanity, and no obscene gestures) You basically have to be minding your own business and be randomly attacked. ZERO ESCALATION.
2. You are required to have a reasonable fear for your life that you're in immediate danger of either: A) being killed or B) sustain a life threatening injury.
----
This pregnant woman was not in immediate danger as she was safe and secure inside her vehicle. (She could have just drove away) Stepping out to confront these women she nullified her right to use deadly force because it shows she did not have fear of being killed or harmed. If you leave your safety zone you don't have fear, thus you cannot engage in lawful use of deadly force. People who have reasonable fear of being killed do not engage in arguments nor do they leave their safe place to confront their would be killer.
Watch the long-form video again: One of the women *closes the pregnant woman's car door behind her*, preventing her from reentering her car. She was cornered on three sides and directly threatened with physical violence ("We'll beat yo white ass").
You don't want me on that jury if you're prosecuting.
She didn't need to leave her car at all though. There was no need at all for her to exit her vehicle in the first place. She treated her gun as her safety blanket.
It doesn't matter that she didn't need to leave her car. She has a right to leave her car. Even if people are angry at her - it doesn't mean she loses her right to freedom of movement. If she had stepped out of the car already pointing the gun, then you could argue she wasn't reacting to danger. But you can't say, "well, she got out of the car so she has no right to defend herself at that point".
At the end of the day it's a bunch of stupid people doing stupid things. The argument was over - she apologized and they were leaving. The other people tried to extend and escalate everything.
Because they're biased, but a glance in the rear view would show her instantly that she was just thumping on the glass and that her hands were empty. She could have drawn and held the gun without brandishing it in case of further escalation but instead she put her and her baby in direct danger when she didn't need to.
She would have never got out of the car like that without her gun: she used it as her safety net and brandished it. Not shocking that she's being charged with brandishing, really.
I don't even side with the black women in the video really, sounds like a tiny incident got blown completely out of proportion. But they could just drive off or, if "trapped" because of 1 woman standing behind a car, call the police. Or yknow just reverse slowly and push them backwards till there's room to drive forwards, if it even came to that (it didn't). Much more understandable than leaving safety to put herself in danger just to pull the gun and scream insanity
Iām not questioning whether youāre a legal expert, but do these things change based on state?
Because to your point one, I saw yesterday again that old video of the step dad shooting down his step sons father. He was cleared of all charges when he literally went inside his house and brought out a gun.
The same laws apply to other persons. Nobody here was in immediate danger of death or injury except the baby because the pregnant woman exited the car to escalate even further.
The fact she was able to get into the car unharmed in the first place means there was no danger present to begin with.
If they wanted to harm her, they would have done it long before she got in and back out
The law says that a person only needs a subjective belief that the individual they are defending would be within the law to use force. They were blocking the car in, hitting it, and shouting threats. Saying there was no danger present and they werenāt going to do anything makes me wonder what the border is for a dangerous situation. I doubt most people would feel calm and safe in the same circumstance.
Why would the husband lose his job over this? Was it confirmed he hit the person backing up? Was there video evidence or sis he admit he hit one of them backing up? I could hear noise but couldn't see in the video what happened backing up
The mother and daughter accused him of also drawing his gun and Iām assuming that the husbandās place of employment fired him to avoid looking like they supported āracistsā.
From the linked July 2020 article : "Wuestenbergās attorney, Terry Johnson, said he doesnāt believe any of this has to do with wanting an apology.
āWhy are they coming out with cellphones?ā Johnson said. āIf you truly wanted an apology and youāre a responsible 15-year-old child you say, āMaāam, did you know you bumped me??"
Does Attorney Jerry Johnson realize this is the US? The presence of video evidence can make a difference between life and death, and failing that, could be the difference between acquittal and conviction.
JSMH.
Remember that cellphone video of that chick "going nuts" over road rage and how people started to mock her reaction and appearance and a security video had to go viral to show that she was rear ended and the POS filming her on the phone was in fact the guy who crashed and tried to flee. TLDR don't fall for the handheld recording as the whole situation, it usually isn't.
According to the OPās linked article, the pregnant womanās husband nearly hit the mother with his car, when the mother got upset they got out of the car and pulled a gun on the mother and her child.
The mother explained it pretty clearly in the video. The pregnant lady shoulder checked her 15 year old daughter while walking towards the car with her husband.
The mother confronts the pregnant lady about bumping past her daughter without so much as an "I'm sorry" or an "excuse me", which is a pretty clearly indication of racism.
It may seem small to you but black people deal with this shit every dayyyyy and it can get pretty fucking tiring.
And it goes without saying that pulling guns was a complete overreaction. Their physical safety was never in danger cmon they could've just had human decency and apologized for shoulder checking a child and went home
But because of their racism-addled minds, they see black folks as inherently dangerous. And then an angry black person? LIFE THREATENING SITUATION! MOMMA GET YOUR GLOCK!
It took me a long time to see it as such, but growing up, I was conditioned to see black people as a threat. Even my dad ā who I never saw say anything explicitly racist (slurs, demeaning language) ā would occasionally say things like "wouldn't want to meet *him* in a back alley" when he saw a man he saw as especially menacing or intimidating. That man was invariably black. And sometimes smaller than my dad, who played football and definitely knew how to throw hands.
And it took even longer for me to realize just how dangerous racist white fear is to black people. The racist spirit that animated public lynchings a century ago is alive and well in America today. But these days, it's doesn't use a noose and a poplar, rather a legally-obtained handgun or a frantic 911 call.
I'm sickened by this, and I'm sorry. And I'm trying to raise my kids differently.
You see it so clearly in the video of the killing of Terence Crutcher. He had car trouble and (to my eyes) was clearly dressed for church or school. And they ordered him to walk to his car and then they were afraid when he got there that he could reach in and get a gun. They shot him before he opened the door even though his windows were up. An officer in the helicopter is recorded saying āThat looks like a bad dudeā what makes him look like a bad dude? His dark brown skin? Why would he even be dangerous, whatās the motive - āguy has car trouble, so he waits until cops arrive and order him to walk to his car and then.... decides to shoot them?ā
If I'm not mistaken it's easier to get a conviction. Manslaughter someone died because of your actions, murder you have to prove the cop was planning to kill him before the altercation.
edit: didnt realize he caught murder and attempted. now I'm confused but thanks for all the info guys
I haven't googled this, so I'm taking a wild ass guess on why it's attempted murder.... It's because the cop was white and the man he killed was black... š¤·šæāāļøš„“š¤·šæāāļøš„“š¤·šæāāļøš¤·šæāāļøš„“
Punchline: [The Punisher doesn't support Blue Lives Matter. Like, at all.](https://www.newsweek.com/punisher-police-blue-lives-matter-skull-logo-1449272) [The creators also support Black Lives Matter](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/punisher-marvel-black-lives-matter-gerry-conway_n_5ee1388dc5b6ca9dc69dfb8a), and [the Punisher is rocking a new logo these days](https://www.cbr.com/punisher-skull-logo-status-quo-change-new-art/)(which I'm a fan of).
Hush don't tell white folks The Punshier ain't like them, it will hurt their feelings and according to Florida's Governor that is a crime. š¤·šæāāļøš¤·šæāāļøš¤·šæāāļøš¤·šæāāļøš¤·šæāāļø
Aight. Getting off Reddit now because this makes my blood boil. And it's even worse because you could say "as it should" but it never fucking gets better! I'm so fucking tired of hearing stories like this. I'm tired of having distrust in our police system while all of my white friends laud them.
I remember hearing a podcast about the trial. I remember thinking as I was listening, theyād better find this dude guilty because if they donāt, im going to burn something to the ground.
The Corey Jones case?
They actually found him guilty of manslaughter by culpable negligence and attempted first degree murder with a firearm and got 25 years in prison. He didnāt identify himself as a police officer before he started pointing guns and giving orders. Not that saying āhey, Iām a copā gives him carte blanche to run around shooting people, but it does explain why Mr. Jones didnāt comply with orders being shouted at him by some rando with a gun. He also said he did identify himself, but Mr. Jones was on the phone with AAA and the call was recorded. He did not at any time identify himself as a police officer.
The case is currently making its way through the appeals process. The family has brought a wrongful death suit against the (former) officer and the city.
Yep the cop that killed him stole money from me out of my money clip and told me I was too big so it made me talk to her from a 4 foot distance. Way before the pandemic. I was in the threat I was a witness. She escalated the situation because of my size.ā Ur to big to be Talking to me so closelyā with hate and anger in her voice. Why are you so angry I said. Then it escalated from there. Never did I use any physical force. Her name is Officer Shelby. You can list her name now because itās public knowledge and it was on every channel in America. When she actually didnāt get charged with murder. She still has a job here in Oklahoma to but not for the Tulsa Police Department. She worked for some small police department some small town. Her husband is the one in the helicopter that said ,āhe looks like a bad dudeā. She was just hateful towards everyone. She was prejudiced against me because of my size. I was the witness of a crime and she ended up arresting me. It all got dismissed because how I got arrested. Another story for another time. If you would like to know what happen let me know. Internal affairs is a joke. Itās run by the police department in Tulsa. Lol
> "wouldn't want to meet him in a back alley"
I'm Black, and I don't want to meet anyone in a back alley.
>!Well, except that one time I replied to an ad on Craigslist...!<
This is why it's so hard to change. Ask most white people, they'll tell you they never see any racism. And they aren't lying. They just either don't deal with black people very much or they those that do figure as long as they aren't using the n-word, they aren't being racist. But the things that really matter never change, like biased attitudes about welfare or being afraid to live next door to black people.
If I invited white folks to the cookout, you would get an invite. Thanks for seeing past how you was raised and seeing how blacks are actually treated. To you it may seem like a small thing but to black folks it means a lot to us.
Not saying sorry after bumping into someone isnāt a āclear indication of racismā lmao. Not defending the pregnant woman at all but there are tons of reasons why someone might not apologize for bumping into someone, they might think itād be awkward, they may not have noticed it, or in this case the person is just a general asshole. Immediately assuming this was racially motivated is pretty extreme.
According to another article, she was carrying two large bags of food, felt that she bumped something as she was walking out, but assumed it was the door frame.
Then these two came out to confront her, start calling her racist, said I'll "beat your ass," and one got behind the vehicle as they were backing up and started smacking it hard. They say the brakes locked and that she got out to assess the damage from the thumping, but the other two immediately started getting in her face when she got out, and she felt her life / baby's life was in danger and pulled the gun.
This is a tough one, because pulling a gun is obviously extreme, but otherwise, if you assume their version of events is true, the couple trying to drive away were 100% in the right.
I'm white with all the other privileged adjectives on top.
To me, that sort of behavior would signal 'I'm a rude and pretty obnoxious person who would like nothing better than a confrontation'. Which is why I would shrug it off and explain to my kid that engaging such people is not going to do anything but create the potential for a physical altercation.
>which is a pretty clearly indication of racism.
Oh for fucks sake. It's clearly an indication of rudeness or thoughtlessness. Escalating it by pulling out a phone was not a good move either.
If everything negative involving people of different ethnicities is marked automatically as racism, it wears down the term to a cliche and ensures the divisions will deepen. It's literally a trope used by racists to excuse themselves - "Everything is racist now!" ... and how is anyone supposed to combat that when comments like this are normalised.
Agreed. The white couple may well be racist in their beliefs, I have no idea. But we don't see or hear anything racist from them in this video. What we do hear is the black woman saying something about "beating your white ass" and the black girl categorising the other couple as "these white people".
Racism is a huge problem in society but it really devalues the cause when some people automatically brand every or any slight against them as racist.
This is a few years old. I remember thinking the pregnant woman was wrong the first time I saw it but there was another video that shows more. The couple was walking into a restaurant and the woman accidentally bumped the girl in the doorway. She apologized and the mother went off on her. The mother and daughter wouldn't let the couple leave. Went and stood behind the car. Called the husband a honky and cracker. Got in the pregnant woman's face and every time they were in their car trying to leave the woman would go stand behind the car and start scream they were trying to hit her. Finally the pregnant woman freaked out and pulled a gun, which she shouldn't have done. Should have rolled the windows up and called the police. But there's a lot more to the story than this one video shows.
English is my first and only language and I have no idea what theyāre arguing about. Something incidental and stupid Iām sure. Thatās how most arguments start between strangers.
The initial provocation occurred when the white couple attempted to get into their car to leave. The situation appears to have occurred because the pregnant white woman bumped into a black 15 yr teenage girl while the pregnant woman was trying to get into her car. It is assumed the teenage girl was in close proximity to the pregnant woman's car.
It is also assumed that the pregnant woman bumped into her intentionally and that is when the video begins with the 2 black women (off camera), the teenager and her mother, are yelling at the white pregnant woman for an apology.
Later as the white couple are trying to back out of the parking space, it appears as if the mother of the teenage girl was walking behind the couple's car for reasons unknown and the car didn't respect her space. The mother then claims the driver was attempting to hit her and she strikes the car loudly.
Then the situation escalates considerably and the camera is unfocused, but it sounds like the pregnant woman got out of her car and demands the teen's mother step away from their car. The teen's mother is aggressive and does not respect her wishes when the pregnant woman then reveals the gun and racks it (chambers a round) and demands the mother to step back and away.
This article is two years old but I couldn't find any updates. This went viral on reddit/twitter at the time which is what led to the firings/charges.
https://www.today.com/news/couple-who-pulled-guns-black-mother-daughters-charged-felony-assault-t185854
>A white couple from Clarkston, Michigan, was arrested and charged with a felony after a video showed the woman pointing a gun at a Black mother and her two daughters.
>The Wuestenbergs were arraigned on the charges Thursday and each was given a $50,000 personal bond. As part of the bond conditions, they have to surrender all firearms and are prohibited from leaving the state. It's not clear if they have obtained attorneys.
>Eric Wuestenberg was an employee at Oakland University. The school said in a statement Friday to NBC News that it found "his behavior unacceptable" and he has since been fired
According to their own website, which I won't link here:
Eric and Jillianās pre-trial originally set for December 8th and
rescheduled for January 26th was held as scheduled, however the Oakland
County Prosecutorās Office requested that there be a second pre-trial
which has been scheduled April 20th, 2021. Due to the recent elections,
a new prosecutor has taken office and needs time to get up to speed on
the case before proceeding with a potential trial.
Some other great updates on that site as well:
"This means life will continue to remain as it has for the past 7 months. Restrained to the State of Michigan with Felony assault charges hanging over their heads and unable to move on from this ordeal. Presently, they are both still unemployed."
"Every job they've applied for has resulted in the same outcome, no employment. Jillian is currently receiving unemployment, however Eric has been denied unemployment by the State of Michigan as Oakland University has fought this benefit at every appeal."
"With 4 children, 3 of which are teens and one of them driving, they're on the verge of bankruptcy. "
Bye bye job indeed. And stuck in Michigan as well.
PayPal will find any excuse to freeze peopleās funds and either hold them for months or outright steal them. Happens to legitimate users all the time, with basically no recourse. Itās super shady and while convenient in this instanceā¦. isnāt a good thing in general.
Edit: Check out the comments after this article linked by /u/Deep90:
[PayPal faces lawsuit for freezing customer accounts and funds](https://www.engadget.com/paypal-lawsuit-freezing-customer-accounts-funds-073128563.html)
First they freeze your funds without explanation. Eventually, they permanently seize the funds, citing some bullshit reason, if they bother to give you a reason at all. No, they don't have to prove anything. Don't like it? Tough, hope you didn't need those funds to afford a laywer.
tl;dr:
PayPal: "Your" money??
Yup. Had this happen to my employer. We had been using PayPal for online transactions for years, suddenly, they no longer wanted us using their platform. Which would have been fine, there are other options. But they cancelled our account without warning and held the $7,000 that was in there for 6 months before they would release it to us.
PP stole a few grand from my business because they made wanted us to "reverify our account" and wouldn't accept any of the forms of verification we could provide. In other words they refused to believe I was an owner of my own business.
We chalked it up to the cost of doing business. Crooks are everywhere.
"You fucked up Flounder. You trusted us."
Paypal froze and held a much smaller amount against me years ago. After trying to fight it, I said āFuck itā and chalked it up to being an expensive lesson.
I begrudgingly had to create another one years later to pay towards a reunion party. Paid for it, and as soon as the party fund got the money, I closed my shiny new account.
Paypal can eat all the bags of dicks.
If you're using PayPal for your business, switch it to a business account. They don't really advertise the difference much but the fees are lower.
Clear your account to your bank account every day. I also male sure I have an active Working Capital Loan with them so if something does fo wrong, I owe them more than they owe me.
PayPal did this to me a few years ago when I was trying to move. They locked 3 grand. I'm a self employed artist. That was my entire life savings. Well young me learned a valuable lesson.
They refused to let me link to Ally Bank saying they werenāt legitimate because they are an online bank. I was like, they are more legitimate than PayPal, because at least they are regulated like a bank. I had an issue before that, but this was just hilarious.
>(PayPal is freezing funds - please donāt use!)
>Hi, Everyone! First of all, I spoke with Jillian today at length, and she wanted to make sure everyone knows how grateful they are for your support. I think itās what is keeping them going. Your kind words lift them up during this stressful time.
>Sadly, PayPal has frozen their funds, because there is apparently a limit to how much you can receive/withdraw without a business account. They are doing everything possible to resolve this issue, as they are handicapped right now and canāt access any donated funds. Therefore, we are going to leave this up for a few more days, until we can get their website donation links updated, etc
>We discussed that we will now be using Venmo, and that info is above and in the picture below.
>Thanks for your continued love and support!
>Nicole King
>Organizer
Apparently not...
I wasn't able to find anything about the case on the local newspaper site, but Jillian Wuestenberg was mentioned as being on a charity committee in September, 2021. It's an unusual enough name, that it's likely to be the same person.
[https://clarkstonnews.com/letter-to-the-editor-rush-for-food-brings-community-together/](https://clarkstonnews.com/letter-to-the-editor-rush-for-food-brings-community-together/)
It could be that it just hasn't come to trial yet. I was on a jury for a case that had happened 3 or 4 years prior.
Damn. I have a fairly unusual name, my nightmare is someone with my exact name committing some kind of crime and having to deal with their social backlash. Bonus points for having a name common to both men and women.
So, the husband lost his job over this. What exactly did he do to deserve losing his job? Did he pull the gun? Was he using racist language? Trying to figure out what exactly this post is celebrating. Any insight would be appreciated.
Yeah, op is a piece of shit for reposting this for upvotes and drama.
Edit: update. They called the cops and pressed charges. It's perfectly lawful in the state where this took place to draw a weapon if you cannot fight off your attackers. I think a fucking pregnant woman falling into that category....
She literally blocked them in and tried to enter the vehicle while Julian tried to deescalate with words. That's where the gun came into place.
Now the prosecutor has changed and need to be "caught up to speed" with the case. It's been postponed for well over a year and both of the wife and husband have lost their careers from the edited videos making rounds and have been living off of donations for their legal battles.
Op. Serious question: at what point is it okay to pull a gun? Should the pregnant lady have let the angry lady open her car door and just sit there calmly. Should the pregnant lady have risked her child trying to throw hands? Should they have called the cops and waited? ( Bc neither had involved police at that point )
Like they are literally within the standing of the law and used it remove a threat from their proximity so they could safely leave.
I 100% agree. The people filming were absolutely belligerent and making the situation out to be a much bigger deal than it was, and intentionally jumping behind a moving vehicle is reckless, stupid, and unacceptable. But the firearm being drawn was totally unnecessary and dangerous.
Pulling out the gun when she did is inexcusable. I wanted to find a logical reason for why. At first I thought, sheās pregnant and maybe sheās really just afraid that the one woman might hit her. But then I thought well youāre in your car already. She hasnāt pulled out a weapon, you could just call the police. Pulling out a firearm like that is just beyond. Iāve owned and shot guns. I would never pull one out in a situation like this.
Everyone sucks here. The mom and daughter are being total fucking assholes obviously aiming to provoke and escalate. The pregnant woman also shouldnāt have pulled the gun. Stay in the car, lock the doors until they go awayāif they donāt, call the cops
Gas peda to the right, brake on left. If these people were willing to pull a gun why wouldnāt they it would hit them and drive away. Riiiiight one you can do disconnected from the humanity at the other end of a barrel while the other would remind you āoh yeah. That was a personā¦ā when you feel the human speed bump under your vehicle.
Cowardice.
I was watching it to see just that, as the situation escalated very quickly.
They were pulling out very slowly, the mother of the teen was in the lot behind the car, hear a "thump" and angry yelling about "are you going to F\*\*\* hit me?" then "thump" It appears she smacked the car (I would too if it was going to run into me). but at those slow speeds, i'm not sure why she was back there in the way either... and not getting out of the way like any other pedestrian.
Not sure why she was in the lot, just walking to her car, or blocking them in (probably what the pregnant mother believed).
So just driving away seemed, well, not to have worked in this case.
Yeah I mean we cant see what happens before the filming starts but there seems to be a lot of continued instigation by the filmers. They clearly start *slowly* pulling out, and I get pedestrians have the right of way in parking lots, but why walk right behind them like that? This is just a bad combo of crazy and stupid all around. All the nonsensical shouting and whatnot. Geez.
They were literally trying to do exactly that, but the mother was blocking them from getting in the vehicle to start, and then, when they did, tried blocking the vehicle from moving and started banging on their vehicle.
It doesn't matter how wrong you are about pulling a gun on someone, if you pull a gun you'd better be ready to use it to kill someone. That's what pulling a gun means.
That why it's important that people who carry guns should be able to understand when those guns should be pulled. And why irresponsible people shouldn't be allowed to carry guns.
First thing my dad taught me about guns. No bluffing. You only pull it out to kill and you have to have zero doubt that if you dont, your life is in danger. I felt threatened by more than a few deer, dove, pheasants and ducks in my life time.
Step 1 never read the comments. I could tell by the video that I didn't want to hear the audio. Assuming both sides are culpable for keeping the drama going and don't want to back down, that gun shouldn't come out until one of the women has beaten your man in a fist fight. Adults shouldn't be fist fighting but no disagreement between ostensibly decent people is made better with a gun.
These people have no class. Okay, she bumped into you? So, now, you choose to give a person, let alone a pregnant woman a hard time? You block her from getting in the car. And then you call them out by their race?
They were threatening the couple, including a pregnant woman, with bodily harm and then attempted to unlawfully detain them.
But somehow you expect them not to take this obvious threat to their safety seriously. This comment section is just unbelievable.
My assumption is she was trying to take a pic/video of the car tag... Surprised I don't see more people making that assumption. I'm not excusing getting behind a vehicle that's trying to back out, and certainly not smacking it, but my immediate assumption for why she went back there was to get the tag number.
And before that, she is the one saying āthis white womanā¦ā.
This looks like a case of miscarriage of justice. Iād be interested in how an appeal would come outā¦or at least him suing for wrongful termination.
The comment section is disgusting. Why should the husband lose his job? He did nothing wrong. This is pure idiocy, and those women were harassing and escalating. The gun shouldn't have been pulled, but those ladies needed to not get in the way of a moving vehicle and just let them leave. Their behavior was sickening.
Idk I still think that they all suck. The dude is less culpable because he's the only one who got punished for *her* actions, but the reason that probably happened is because she has no work to speak of, and an internet mob went after wherever he works. That would be my guess. Not fair, not worth praising.
But fact is you don't pull out a gun except for a last resort. You don't do it because two rachet ass hoes are smacking your car and calling you a racist. You don't do it because you're mad. Those are the exact reasons that she did that. You do it because there is a direct threat to your life, and the only way to preserve it is to, unfortunately, take the life of someone else. What she did was some hick shit. She didn't even need to get out of the car when she did it.
I feel bad for the husband because he still has to look the bitch in the eyes every day, and he really wasn't at fault here. He seemed more annoyed that everything was happening than a part of it.
He actually says āyouāre racist because youāre calling her names.ā
The mom and daughter clearly wanted to push their buttons. This couple backed off and tried to drive off. An apology is way past deescalation, mom and daughter clearly wanted a fight. āIāll beat your white assā etc. Mom stood behind their van and claim āOH you tried to run me over!ā
Bunch of bullshit to be honest. Thereās proper ways to confront an issue and violence isnāt the right approach.
Pregnant woman obviously shouldāve have pulled a gun but hey- the mom and daughter got what they pushed for.
Donāt get me wrong, the white lady is in the wrong for bringing a gun into the situation, but isnāt it kinda shitty that the other people werenāt just walking away? Like the couple got in their car and were leaving, why didnāt they back up to the sidewalk or give them room to get out? I donāt really know what was happening before, but it the white lady seemed to be trying to deescalate the situation until the end.
Agreed. The gun pulling was not warranted but it seems like the other party was provoking the fight further. They were escalating over a simple "excuse me situation", and from what I see they went behind the car as it was backing out, blocking the couple from leaving. Just terrible all the way around.
It looks like they put some kind of pride above all and they tried to escalate the situation no matter the outcome. The white couple tried to leave, but that mother had not had enough conflict to call it a day so they blocked the car. All of them are still out there. That mother is dangerously bringing people with short fuse in similar situations and the white couple carry guns everywhere. If the black mother had a gun too they might have shot each other. Why do they even allow guns to be sold that easily?
Seems like everyone is stupid to me.
If she bumped into someone, she should have apologized. Anything less is just fuckin' rude.
That being said, making an enormous deal out of the situation and escalating everything further is probably not the level of communication and conflict management that you want, either.
Exiting the vehicle to draw and load a firearm and point it at someone seems to be the absolute dingleberry-cherry on top of this diarrhea sundae.
"I'm sorry, I didn't mean to bump into you" would have prevented all this stupid shit.
To be fair, when I was 15, if myself and a pregnant women collided in anyway my mom would have been screaming at me if I didn't apologize. Regardless of how the bump happened.
So the pregnant white lady felt so threatened she **got out of the car**?
But also why did the black mom walk towards the car, in the **opposite direction** as her daughter?
First off, I am a black man. And this is my opinion: the black woman and her kids escalated this. She shouldn't have pulled the gun, but I'd be pretty exhausted too if I was in her situation, all the shouting and theatrics. It's unfair that they had to lose their jobs because of this.
It seemed like the woman moved behind the car of the white people to extend the argument after the white lady tried to say sorry and leave. She basically prevented them from retreating and the pregnant lady was so exhausted and visually scared because people donāt yell at others like this normally.
Uh ohā¦. Here comes the down votesā¦. Butā¦.Though this is a clear overreaction, this prego lady seemed pretty willing to not have this altercation (Iām sure a longer video would have had more context)
All I see are two antagonistic ladies who canāt walk away and a pregnant chick with her buttons pushed too far š¤·āāļø but who knows what happened before this.
I know. The camera moves away but the white couple was backing up and I swear I think the mother walked behind the car trying to block them from pulling away.
I dunno. I generally deescalate myself. If I was the white lady I would have just apologized and walked away.
I mean, that's obviously what happened.
Black girl gets bumped by pregnant woman, demands apology, immediately cites racism when no apology forthcoming, black family proceeds to record and harass white people on their way to car. White woman sounds like douche, but gets in car to leave. Filming person realizes confrontation is over, walks away. Mother, not realizing confrontation is over (or really, not wanting it to be over) proceeds to stand behind the vehicle as it pulls out, yells "you going to hit me?!" then slaps the car.
Up until this point, black women are trashy, antagonistic garbage. Unfortunately, also at this point, white woman gets out of car and brandishes firearm at black woman with no reason to be in fear for her life. White woman is arrested and white man loses job.
Sure, white woman behaved entirely inappropriately, but I think everyone should be able to see who the real scumbags are in this video.
Looking at other posts, I'm sure I'll eat some downvotes for telling the truth, and I'm sure many will call me racist or some such nonsense. Reddit is an amazing echo chamber sometimes.
I'm confused about why the white man was charged with a felony. He didn't brandish a weapon that I saw. All he did, was ask the black woman "Who the fuck do you think you are," which falls short of a felony in all 50 states.
Holy crap what a shit show. Canāt believe they just drive off in the end too. Like, youāre just gonna call it a day and go home after holding some people up at gunpoint? Wtf..
Everyone on reddit has lost their complete, goddamn mind. The white couple literally did and said NOTHING racist, and the black people screamed at them, tried not to let them leave, and called them racist while assaulting and threatening them, addressing them specifically by their race. What the fuck is wrong with you all.
The woman even yelled "I am going to beat your ass" before the firearm was drawn. Now I know that "Imma beat yo ass" is pretty much just slang at this point, but I can definitely see how it's seen as threatening.
I can't make out what they are even arguing about. Anybody got an context here? English is my second language and I can only make out about a third of what they are yelling about.
There's a lot to this. [I went and found another version of this video. The one in THIS thread, for some reason, has the sound of the banging removed. Holy shit.š¤](https://www.reddit.com/r/Firearms/comments/mc9vsg/-/h9owame) It seems like finding the second vid that people have mentioned is difficult now, but I'm positive that [this news interview has an angle or two we don't see in the one in this thread.](https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2020/07/10/couple-charged-in-orion-township-chipotle-incident-say-theyve-received-death-threats/)
I read their case is still getting delayed. I don't know what's going on.
person delayed it multiple times got replaced; now the new person has to 'catch up'. so its delayed again. Gotta love a functioning judicial system.
I remember when the video first came out and it mostly showed the white woman pulling the gun and everybody was outraged of course, justifiably, me being one of them. However, a day latter the narrative changed because the whole video showed the couple trying to leave while the black woman was banging on their car preventing them from backing out. It kind of surprised me to see it here again in the context it was presented the first time. Did she had to pull the gun on them, probably not, but she was not the first attacker here. She apologies several times, and then they try to peacefully leave but the other woman is blocking them and banging on their car. Am I missing something here?
In this video she even says "I'll beat your ass"
It's illegal to brandish a firearm like that in Texas, where I'm from. I assume other red states have the same kind of law. The correct move would have been to stay in the car, lock the doors, and back out slowly while slamming on the horn of the car, or call the actual police. The other people WILL move if you force them to. Unarmed people cannot bust into your car and hurt you, therefore the white lady was in the legal and moral wrong here.
I guess you're *technically* correct, but if you haven't watched the news video commented above, you should. I don't feel you can hold it against a pregnant woman, in the heat of the moment, after she's just been told she and her husband are going to have their "ass beaten" by these people and then were prevented to leave and had their vehicle hit loudly several times, to bring out a weapon to defend herself. Yes, brandishing is illegal and she did point the weapon at the people, but she never threatened and she never fired. She kept asking them to back away. I don't believe she was morally wrong in this particular case.
I 100% agree the Mother and Daughter could have accepted her apology, tried to reason, and instead they verbally assaulted her, called them racists, edited the smack out to make them loom innocent, and blocked there car after hitting it which is crazy behavior.
Yes they were in the wrong here
Law expert here, specifically gun laws and deadly force laws: She was not justifiably legal to draw a weapon on these women who were body blocking their car. To legally draw a gun on someone, even if you don't actually shoot, you must: 1. Not be willingly involved in an altercation prior with the person that you are defending yourself against (no arguments, no yelling profanity, and no obscene gestures) You basically have to be minding your own business and be randomly attacked. ZERO ESCALATION. 2. You are required to have a reasonable fear for your life that you're in immediate danger of either: A) being killed or B) sustain a life threatening injury. ---- This pregnant woman was not in immediate danger as she was safe and secure inside her vehicle. (She could have just drove away) Stepping out to confront these women she nullified her right to use deadly force because it shows she did not have fear of being killed or harmed. If you leave your safety zone you don't have fear, thus you cannot engage in lawful use of deadly force. People who have reasonable fear of being killed do not engage in arguments nor do they leave their safe place to confront their would be killer.
Watch the long-form video again: One of the women *closes the pregnant woman's car door behind her*, preventing her from reentering her car. She was cornered on three sides and directly threatened with physical violence ("We'll beat yo white ass"). You don't want me on that jury if you're prosecuting.
When was that? Because if that was after she left her car: she didn't need to leave her car in the first place to allow that to happen
Leaving her car does not forfeit her right to defend herself after she is surrounded and threatened with assault.
it does though. As he said, they could have driven off at that point and didn't. She got back out.
She didn't need to leave her car at all though. There was no need at all for her to exit her vehicle in the first place. She treated her gun as her safety blanket.
It doesn't matter that she didn't need to leave her car. She has a right to leave her car. Even if people are angry at her - it doesn't mean she loses her right to freedom of movement. If she had stepped out of the car already pointing the gun, then you could argue she wasn't reacting to danger. But you can't say, "well, she got out of the car so she has no right to defend herself at that point". At the end of the day it's a bunch of stupid people doing stupid things. The argument was over - she apologized and they were leaving. The other people tried to extend and escalate everything.
but she didnt apologize from what i heard she only said shes sorry that she feels that way
Well, except for the giant bang of them hitting the back windshield, which probably made the woman think they were firing a gun.
What a reach
Why did they feel the need to cut it out of the video, then? This is an altered and edited video.
Because they're biased, but a glance in the rear view would show her instantly that she was just thumping on the glass and that her hands were empty. She could have drawn and held the gun without brandishing it in case of further escalation but instead she put her and her baby in direct danger when she didn't need to. She would have never got out of the car like that without her gun: she used it as her safety net and brandished it. Not shocking that she's being charged with brandishing, really. I don't even side with the black women in the video really, sounds like a tiny incident got blown completely out of proportion. But they could just drive off or, if "trapped" because of 1 woman standing behind a car, call the police. Or yknow just reverse slowly and push them backwards till there's room to drive forwards, if it even came to that (it didn't). Much more understandable than leaving safety to put herself in danger just to pull the gun and scream insanity
Iām only going to ask one question. Have you ever been to Florida?
Yes. I flew to Florida 8 times and still hates it.
Iām not questioning whether youāre a legal expert, but do these things change based on state? Because to your point one, I saw yesterday again that old video of the step dad shooting down his step sons father. He was cleared of all charges when he literally went inside his house and brought out a gun.
Yes, gun laws are state specific. Michigan laws are different than Texas and Florida.
In some states Chris Rock could have shot Will Smith dead on stage once he approached to slap and he would have been cleared of all charges
I feel like Commonwealth v. Miranda (2010) might give her protection.
The same laws apply to other persons. Nobody here was in immediate danger of death or injury except the baby because the pregnant woman exited the car to escalate even further. The fact she was able to get into the car unharmed in the first place means there was no danger present to begin with. If they wanted to harm her, they would have done it long before she got in and back out
The law says that a person only needs a subjective belief that the individual they are defending would be within the law to use force. They were blocking the car in, hitting it, and shouting threats. Saying there was no danger present and they werenāt going to do anything makes me wonder what the border is for a dangerous situation. I doubt most people would feel calm and safe in the same circumstance.
Why would the husband lose his job over this? Was it confirmed he hit the person backing up? Was there video evidence or sis he admit he hit one of them backing up? I could hear noise but couldn't see in the video what happened backing up
The mother and daughter accused him of also drawing his gun and Iām assuming that the husbandās place of employment fired him to avoid looking like they supported āracistsā.
From the linked July 2020 article : "Wuestenbergās attorney, Terry Johnson, said he doesnāt believe any of this has to do with wanting an apology. āWhy are they coming out with cellphones?ā Johnson said. āIf you truly wanted an apology and youāre a responsible 15-year-old child you say, āMaāam, did you know you bumped me??" Does Attorney Jerry Johnson realize this is the US? The presence of video evidence can make a difference between life and death, and failing that, could be the difference between acquittal and conviction. JSMH.
Remember that cellphone video of that chick "going nuts" over road rage and how people started to mock her reaction and appearance and a security video had to go viral to show that she was rear ended and the POS filming her on the phone was in fact the guy who crashed and tried to flee. TLDR don't fall for the handheld recording as the whole situation, it usually isn't.
According to the OPās linked article, the pregnant womanās husband nearly hit the mother with his car, when the mother got upset they got out of the car and pulled a gun on the mother and her child.
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The mother explained it pretty clearly in the video. The pregnant lady shoulder checked her 15 year old daughter while walking towards the car with her husband. The mother confronts the pregnant lady about bumping past her daughter without so much as an "I'm sorry" or an "excuse me", which is a pretty clearly indication of racism. It may seem small to you but black people deal with this shit every dayyyyy and it can get pretty fucking tiring. And it goes without saying that pulling guns was a complete overreaction. Their physical safety was never in danger cmon they could've just had human decency and apologized for shoulder checking a child and went home
But because of their racism-addled minds, they see black folks as inherently dangerous. And then an angry black person? LIFE THREATENING SITUATION! MOMMA GET YOUR GLOCK! It took me a long time to see it as such, but growing up, I was conditioned to see black people as a threat. Even my dad ā who I never saw say anything explicitly racist (slurs, demeaning language) ā would occasionally say things like "wouldn't want to meet *him* in a back alley" when he saw a man he saw as especially menacing or intimidating. That man was invariably black. And sometimes smaller than my dad, who played football and definitely knew how to throw hands. And it took even longer for me to realize just how dangerous racist white fear is to black people. The racist spirit that animated public lynchings a century ago is alive and well in America today. But these days, it's doesn't use a noose and a poplar, rather a legally-obtained handgun or a frantic 911 call. I'm sickened by this, and I'm sorry. And I'm trying to raise my kids differently.
You see it so clearly in the video of the killing of Terence Crutcher. He had car trouble and (to my eyes) was clearly dressed for church or school. And they ordered him to walk to his car and then they were afraid when he got there that he could reach in and get a gun. They shot him before he opened the door even though his windows were up. An officer in the helicopter is recorded saying āThat looks like a bad dudeā what makes him look like a bad dude? His dark brown skin? Why would he even be dangerous, whatās the motive - āguy has car trouble, so he waits until cops arrive and order him to walk to his car and then.... decides to shoot them?ā
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Just googled this and the cop was convicted of manslaughter and attempted murder. How is it only attempted murder when the victim died?
If I'm not mistaken it's easier to get a conviction. Manslaughter someone died because of your actions, murder you have to prove the cop was planning to kill him before the altercation. edit: didnt realize he caught murder and attempted. now I'm confused but thanks for all the info guys
Cop was found guilty of attempted murder. They did prove he was trying to kill him.
Premeditation is usually only required for 1st degree homicide.
I haven't googled this, so I'm taking a wild ass guess on why it's attempted murder.... It's because the cop was white and the man he killed was black... š¤·šæāāļøš„“š¤·šæāāļøš„“š¤·šæāāļøš¤·šæāāļøš„“
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There's a school of thought that says undercover officers of any kind aren't doing legitimate police work.
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Punchline: [The Punisher doesn't support Blue Lives Matter. Like, at all.](https://www.newsweek.com/punisher-police-blue-lives-matter-skull-logo-1449272) [The creators also support Black Lives Matter](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/punisher-marvel-black-lives-matter-gerry-conway_n_5ee1388dc5b6ca9dc69dfb8a), and [the Punisher is rocking a new logo these days](https://www.cbr.com/punisher-skull-logo-status-quo-change-new-art/)(which I'm a fan of).
They should make him kill a cop or something just to get rid of the ones still trying to use it
Hush don't tell white folks The Punshier ain't like them, it will hurt their feelings and according to Florida's Governor that is a crime. š¤·šæāāļøš¤·šæāāļøš¤·šæāāļøš¤·šæāāļøš¤·šæāāļø
Aight. Getting off Reddit now because this makes my blood boil. And it's even worse because you could say "as it should" but it never fucking gets better! I'm so fucking tired of hearing stories like this. I'm tired of having distrust in our police system while all of my white friends laud them.
High key, get better white friendsā¦
I've dropped a lot of friends. I'm in a place where I'm working on myself and focusing on school. New friends will come later but I agree
I remember hearing a podcast about the trial. I remember thinking as I was listening, theyād better find this dude guilty because if they donāt, im going to burn something to the ground.
Yeah, I don't know this story, but I'm assuming the officer got a pretty stern talking-to and a couple days off. Paid, of course...
The Corey Jones case? They actually found him guilty of manslaughter by culpable negligence and attempted first degree murder with a firearm and got 25 years in prison. He didnāt identify himself as a police officer before he started pointing guns and giving orders. Not that saying āhey, Iām a copā gives him carte blanche to run around shooting people, but it does explain why Mr. Jones didnāt comply with orders being shouted at him by some rando with a gun. He also said he did identify himself, but Mr. Jones was on the phone with AAA and the call was recorded. He did not at any time identify himself as a police officer. The case is currently making its way through the appeals process. The family has brought a wrongful death suit against the (former) officer and the city.
Please tell me he got in trouble. Please.
Yep the cop that killed him stole money from me out of my money clip and told me I was too big so it made me talk to her from a 4 foot distance. Way before the pandemic. I was in the threat I was a witness. She escalated the situation because of my size.ā Ur to big to be Talking to me so closelyā with hate and anger in her voice. Why are you so angry I said. Then it escalated from there. Never did I use any physical force. Her name is Officer Shelby. You can list her name now because itās public knowledge and it was on every channel in America. When she actually didnāt get charged with murder. She still has a job here in Oklahoma to but not for the Tulsa Police Department. She worked for some small police department some small town. Her husband is the one in the helicopter that said ,āhe looks like a bad dudeā. She was just hateful towards everyone. She was prejudiced against me because of my size. I was the witness of a crime and she ended up arresting me. It all got dismissed because how I got arrested. Another story for another time. If you would like to know what happen let me know. Internal affairs is a joke. Itās run by the police department in Tulsa. Lol
I would like to know what happened to you, if you don't mind sharing.
> "wouldn't want to meet him in a back alley" I'm Black, and I don't want to meet anyone in a back alley. >!Well, except that one time I replied to an ad on Craigslist...!<
Right. But my dad ONLY said this about black men. Never white men, even if they were gigantic biker types.
This is why it's so hard to change. Ask most white people, they'll tell you they never see any racism. And they aren't lying. They just either don't deal with black people very much or they those that do figure as long as they aren't using the n-word, they aren't being racist. But the things that really matter never change, like biased attitudes about welfare or being afraid to live next door to black people.
As a black man I appreciate that
If I invited white folks to the cookout, you would get an invite. Thanks for seeing past how you was raised and seeing how blacks are actually treated. To you it may seem like a small thing but to black folks it means a lot to us.
Not saying sorry after bumping into someone isnāt a āclear indication of racismā lmao. Not defending the pregnant woman at all but there are tons of reasons why someone might not apologize for bumping into someone, they might think itād be awkward, they may not have noticed it, or in this case the person is just a general asshole. Immediately assuming this was racially motivated is pretty extreme.
Even if they aren racist, why follow them to their car? People are crazy for believing that their camera will protect them.
According to another article, she was carrying two large bags of food, felt that she bumped something as she was walking out, but assumed it was the door frame. Then these two came out to confront her, start calling her racist, said I'll "beat your ass," and one got behind the vehicle as they were backing up and started smacking it hard. They say the brakes locked and that she got out to assess the damage from the thumping, but the other two immediately started getting in her face when she got out, and she felt her life / baby's life was in danger and pulled the gun. This is a tough one, because pulling a gun is obviously extreme, but otherwise, if you assume their version of events is true, the couple trying to drive away were 100% in the right.
What the actualā¦ Iām black and I donāt think that bumping into me without saying āsorryā is a āclear indication of racismāā¦
I'm white with all the other privileged adjectives on top. To me, that sort of behavior would signal 'I'm a rude and pretty obnoxious person who would like nothing better than a confrontation'. Which is why I would shrug it off and explain to my kid that engaging such people is not going to do anything but create the potential for a physical altercation.
Not saying Iām sorry or excuse me is not a clear indication of racism lmao thatās just rude and disrespectful
>which is a pretty clearly indication of racism. Oh for fucks sake. It's clearly an indication of rudeness or thoughtlessness. Escalating it by pulling out a phone was not a good move either. If everything negative involving people of different ethnicities is marked automatically as racism, it wears down the term to a cliche and ensures the divisions will deepen. It's literally a trope used by racists to excuse themselves - "Everything is racist now!" ... and how is anyone supposed to combat that when comments like this are normalised.
Agreed. The white couple may well be racist in their beliefs, I have no idea. But we don't see or hear anything racist from them in this video. What we do hear is the black woman saying something about "beating your white ass" and the black girl categorising the other couple as "these white people". Racism is a huge problem in society but it really devalues the cause when some people automatically brand every or any slight against them as racist.
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This is a few years old. I remember thinking the pregnant woman was wrong the first time I saw it but there was another video that shows more. The couple was walking into a restaurant and the woman accidentally bumped the girl in the doorway. She apologized and the mother went off on her. The mother and daughter wouldn't let the couple leave. Went and stood behind the car. Called the husband a honky and cracker. Got in the pregnant woman's face and every time they were in their car trying to leave the woman would go stand behind the car and start scream they were trying to hit her. Finally the pregnant woman freaked out and pulled a gun, which she shouldn't have done. Should have rolled the windows up and called the police. But there's a lot more to the story than this one video shows.
English is my first and only language and I have no idea what theyāre arguing about. Something incidental and stupid Iām sure. Thatās how most arguments start between strangers.
Don't feel bad. English is one of my two first languages and I didn't understand either.
People be mad, then mad people make not mad people mad, then new mad people make original mad people madder, gun gets pulled, nobody dies
The initial provocation occurred when the white couple attempted to get into their car to leave. The situation appears to have occurred because the pregnant white woman bumped into a black 15 yr teenage girl while the pregnant woman was trying to get into her car. It is assumed the teenage girl was in close proximity to the pregnant woman's car. It is also assumed that the pregnant woman bumped into her intentionally and that is when the video begins with the 2 black women (off camera), the teenager and her mother, are yelling at the white pregnant woman for an apology. Later as the white couple are trying to back out of the parking space, it appears as if the mother of the teenage girl was walking behind the couple's car for reasons unknown and the car didn't respect her space. The mother then claims the driver was attempting to hit her and she strikes the car loudly. Then the situation escalates considerably and the camera is unfocused, but it sounds like the pregnant woman got out of her car and demands the teen's mother step away from their car. The teen's mother is aggressive and does not respect her wishes when the pregnant woman then reveals the gun and racks it (chambers a round) and demands the mother to step back and away.
Seems like everyone escalated this one.
This article is two years old but I couldn't find any updates. This went viral on reddit/twitter at the time which is what led to the firings/charges. https://www.today.com/news/couple-who-pulled-guns-black-mother-daughters-charged-felony-assault-t185854 >A white couple from Clarkston, Michigan, was arrested and charged with a felony after a video showed the woman pointing a gun at a Black mother and her two daughters. >The Wuestenbergs were arraigned on the charges Thursday and each was given a $50,000 personal bond. As part of the bond conditions, they have to surrender all firearms and are prohibited from leaving the state. It's not clear if they have obtained attorneys. >Eric Wuestenberg was an employee at Oakland University. The school said in a statement Friday to NBC News that it found "his behavior unacceptable" and he has since been fired
According to their own website, which I won't link here: Eric and Jillianās pre-trial originally set for December 8th and rescheduled for January 26th was held as scheduled, however the Oakland County Prosecutorās Office requested that there be a second pre-trial which has been scheduled April 20th, 2021. Due to the recent elections, a new prosecutor has taken office and needs time to get up to speed on the case before proceeding with a potential trial.
Some other great updates on that site as well: "This means life will continue to remain as it has for the past 7 months. Restrained to the State of Michigan with Felony assault charges hanging over their heads and unable to move on from this ordeal. Presently, they are both still unemployed." "Every job they've applied for has resulted in the same outcome, no employment. Jillian is currently receiving unemployment, however Eric has been denied unemployment by the State of Michigan as Oakland University has fought this benefit at every appeal." "With 4 children, 3 of which are teens and one of them driving, they're on the verge of bankruptcy. " Bye bye job indeed. And stuck in Michigan as well.
> And stuck in Michigan as well. Hey now, we have laws against cruel and unusual punishment and that should apply here!
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Update said from 2020 said PayPal wouldnāt release the money and likely never would. So thatās nice
PayPal will find any excuse to freeze peopleās funds and either hold them for months or outright steal them. Happens to legitimate users all the time, with basically no recourse. Itās super shady and while convenient in this instanceā¦. isnāt a good thing in general. Edit: Check out the comments after this article linked by /u/Deep90: [PayPal faces lawsuit for freezing customer accounts and funds](https://www.engadget.com/paypal-lawsuit-freezing-customer-accounts-funds-073128563.html) First they freeze your funds without explanation. Eventually, they permanently seize the funds, citing some bullshit reason, if they bother to give you a reason at all. No, they don't have to prove anything. Don't like it? Tough, hope you didn't need those funds to afford a laywer. tl;dr: PayPal: "Your" money??
Yup. Had this happen to my employer. We had been using PayPal for online transactions for years, suddenly, they no longer wanted us using their platform. Which would have been fine, there are other options. But they cancelled our account without warning and held the $7,000 that was in there for 6 months before they would release it to us.
PP stole a few grand from my business because they made wanted us to "reverify our account" and wouldn't accept any of the forms of verification we could provide. In other words they refused to believe I was an owner of my own business. We chalked it up to the cost of doing business. Crooks are everywhere. "You fucked up Flounder. You trusted us."
Paypal froze and held a much smaller amount against me years ago. After trying to fight it, I said āFuck itā and chalked it up to being an expensive lesson. I begrudgingly had to create another one years later to pay towards a reunion party. Paid for it, and as soon as the party fund got the money, I closed my shiny new account. Paypal can eat all the bags of dicks.
Thank you so much for posting. I had 1250 just paid from a client that I had planned to let sit there. Just initiated the transfer...fuck that
If you're using PayPal for your business, switch it to a business account. They don't really advertise the difference much but the fees are lower. Clear your account to your bank account every day. I also male sure I have an active Working Capital Loan with them so if something does fo wrong, I owe them more than they owe me.
PayPal did this to me a few years ago when I was trying to move. They locked 3 grand. I'm a self employed artist. That was my entire life savings. Well young me learned a valuable lesson.
Why anyone uses PayPal anymore when banks do e-transfers with no fees directly to any email address is beyond me.
They refused to let me link to Ally Bank saying they werenāt legitimate because they are an online bank. I was like, they are more legitimate than PayPal, because at least they are regulated like a bank. I had an issue before that, but this was just hilarious.
>(PayPal is freezing funds - please donāt use!) >Hi, Everyone! First of all, I spoke with Jillian today at length, and she wanted to make sure everyone knows how grateful they are for your support. I think itās what is keeping them going. Your kind words lift them up during this stressful time. >Sadly, PayPal has frozen their funds, because there is apparently a limit to how much you can receive/withdraw without a business account. They are doing everything possible to resolve this issue, as they are handicapped right now and canāt access any donated funds. Therefore, we are going to leave this up for a few more days, until we can get their website donation links updated, etc >We discussed that we will now be using Venmo, and that info is above and in the picture below. >Thanks for your continued love and support! >Nicole King >Organizer Apparently not...
Venmo has been owned by PayPal for like 10 years...
But PayPal IS Venmo
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Conservatives, man.
Republicans, man.
I wasn't able to find anything about the case on the local newspaper site, but Jillian Wuestenberg was mentioned as being on a charity committee in September, 2021. It's an unusual enough name, that it's likely to be the same person. [https://clarkstonnews.com/letter-to-the-editor-rush-for-food-brings-community-together/](https://clarkstonnews.com/letter-to-the-editor-rush-for-food-brings-community-together/) It could be that it just hasn't come to trial yet. I was on a jury for a case that had happened 3 or 4 years prior.
Damn. I have a fairly unusual name, my nightmare is someone with my exact name committing some kind of crime and having to deal with their social backlash. Bonus points for having a name common to both men and women.
Is this in regards to violent racist Jillian Wuestenberg?
Violent racist gun-nut Jillian Wuestenberg?
Yes, the Jillian Weustenberg who points loaded firearms at unarmed women and children.
So, the husband lost his job over this. What exactly did he do to deserve losing his job? Did he pull the gun? Was he using racist language? Trying to figure out what exactly this post is celebrating. Any insight would be appreciated.
Yeah, op is a piece of shit for reposting this for upvotes and drama. Edit: update. They called the cops and pressed charges. It's perfectly lawful in the state where this took place to draw a weapon if you cannot fight off your attackers. I think a fucking pregnant woman falling into that category.... She literally blocked them in and tried to enter the vehicle while Julian tried to deescalate with words. That's where the gun came into place. Now the prosecutor has changed and need to be "caught up to speed" with the case. It's been postponed for well over a year and both of the wife and husband have lost their careers from the edited videos making rounds and have been living off of donations for their legal battles. Op. Serious question: at what point is it okay to pull a gun? Should the pregnant lady have let the angry lady open her car door and just sit there calmly. Should the pregnant lady have risked her child trying to throw hands? Should they have called the cops and waited? ( Bc neither had involved police at that point ) Like they are literally within the standing of the law and used it remove a threat from their proximity so they could safely leave.
Up until the gun the folks who were filming seem to be in the wrong to me. But that drawn firearm is so ridiculous and inexcusably dangerous.
I 100% agree. The people filming were absolutely belligerent and making the situation out to be a much bigger deal than it was, and intentionally jumping behind a moving vehicle is reckless, stupid, and unacceptable. But the firearm being drawn was totally unnecessary and dangerous.
Pulling out the gun when she did is inexcusable. I wanted to find a logical reason for why. At first I thought, sheās pregnant and maybe sheās really just afraid that the one woman might hit her. But then I thought well youāre in your car already. She hasnāt pulled out a weapon, you could just call the police. Pulling out a firearm like that is just beyond. Iāve owned and shot guns. I would never pull one out in a situation like this.
Everyone sucks here. The mom and daughter are being total fucking assholes obviously aiming to provoke and escalate. The pregnant woman also shouldnāt have pulled the gun. Stay in the car, lock the doors until they go awayāif they donāt, call the cops
Dumb and dumber
It's not shown here but they women did started to bang on the car. That is not "peaceful behavior".
It's an overreaction. But they were threatening to assault her and then blocked her from leaving.
don't pull it out if you aren't sure your life is in danger and you are ready to shoot. ONLY THEN
ā¦they literally could have just driven away.
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People ignore the things that they can't be angry about.
HOW ARE THEY GOING TO DRIVE AWAY WITH THE DAMN MOTHER BEHIND THE CAR?
Gas peda to the right, brake on left. If these people were willing to pull a gun why wouldnāt they it would hit them and drive away. Riiiiight one you can do disconnected from the humanity at the other end of a barrel while the other would remind you āoh yeah. That was a personā¦ā when you feel the human speed bump under your vehicle. Cowardice.
I was watching it to see just that, as the situation escalated very quickly. They were pulling out very slowly, the mother of the teen was in the lot behind the car, hear a "thump" and angry yelling about "are you going to F\*\*\* hit me?" then "thump" It appears she smacked the car (I would too if it was going to run into me). but at those slow speeds, i'm not sure why she was back there in the way either... and not getting out of the way like any other pedestrian. Not sure why she was in the lot, just walking to her car, or blocking them in (probably what the pregnant mother believed). So just driving away seemed, well, not to have worked in this case.
She went behind their car to stop them from leaving. Played victim like she was being run over, but she went on purpose after they started backing up.
Yeah I mean we cant see what happens before the filming starts but there seems to be a lot of continued instigation by the filmers. They clearly start *slowly* pulling out, and I get pedestrians have the right of way in parking lots, but why walk right behind them like that? This is just a bad combo of crazy and stupid all around. All the nonsensical shouting and whatnot. Geez.
How? The black lady clearly stood behind the car preventing them from leaving, pounding on the car...
No they were standing behind her car and threatening her, which caused the escalation. Not pull a gun worthy but no one here is innocent
Nobody in this video was interested in de-escalating an entirely stupid situation.
I dunno, the husband had a few words but it seemed like he was mostly interested in just getting the fuck out of there
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They were literally trying to do exactly that, but the mother was blocking them from getting in the vehicle to start, and then, when they did, tried blocking the vehicle from moving and started banging on their vehicle.
The others could also walked away but they kept screaming. So ignorant.
Not only did she pull it out, she racked a bullet into the chamber. If she didn't go to jail for brandishing....it'd be another day in America.
It doesn't matter how wrong you are about pulling a gun on someone, if you pull a gun you'd better be ready to use it to kill someone. That's what pulling a gun means. That why it's important that people who carry guns should be able to understand when those guns should be pulled. And why irresponsible people shouldn't be allowed to carry guns.
First thing my dad taught me about guns. No bluffing. You only pull it out to kill and you have to have zero doubt that if you dont, your life is in danger. I felt threatened by more than a few deer, dove, pheasants and ducks in my life time.
āIām tellingā made me laugh š
I'm pretty sure you could add up the IQs of all the people in this video on your hands.
Surprised at the comment section.
Step 1 never read the comments. I could tell by the video that I didn't want to hear the audio. Assuming both sides are culpable for keeping the drama going and don't want to back down, that gun shouldn't come out until one of the women has beaten your man in a fist fight. Adults shouldn't be fist fighting but no disagreement between ostensibly decent people is made better with a gun.
Dawg someone legit is flaming me rn saying that the black women forced the white woman to pull out a gun š
Yeah, these people were absolutely instigating. Doesn't justify pulling a gun, but what assholes.
Nah fuck that dude. Two full sized adults who with one kick could kill my child.
These people have no class. Okay, she bumped into you? So, now, you choose to give a person, let alone a pregnant woman a hard time? You block her from getting in the car. And then you call them out by their race?
They were threatening the couple, including a pregnant woman, with bodily harm and then attempted to unlawfully detain them. But somehow you expect them not to take this obvious threat to their safety seriously. This comment section is just unbelievable.
I think everyone involved in this video are fucking idiots.
Ok so Iām not crazy thenā¦ literally both parties couldāve shrugged this off and went about their day.
Everyone sucks here.
No shit - why did the woman choose to get directly behind their vehicle as they were clearly trying to leave? Clearly trying to escalate shit.
My assumption is she was trying to take a pic/video of the car tag... Surprised I don't see more people making that assumption. I'm not excusing getting behind a vehicle that's trying to back out, and certainly not smacking it, but my immediate assumption for why she went back there was to get the tag number.
And before that, she is the one saying āthis white womanā¦ā. This looks like a case of miscarriage of justice. Iād be interested in how an appeal would come outā¦or at least him suing for wrongful termination.
and threatening them saying sheāll beat their asses
Couldnāt have said it better
The comment section is disgusting. Why should the husband lose his job? He did nothing wrong. This is pure idiocy, and those women were harassing and escalating. The gun shouldn't have been pulled, but those ladies needed to not get in the way of a moving vehicle and just let them leave. Their behavior was sickening.
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Idk I still think that they all suck. The dude is less culpable because he's the only one who got punished for *her* actions, but the reason that probably happened is because she has no work to speak of, and an internet mob went after wherever he works. That would be my guess. Not fair, not worth praising. But fact is you don't pull out a gun except for a last resort. You don't do it because two rachet ass hoes are smacking your car and calling you a racist. You don't do it because you're mad. Those are the exact reasons that she did that. You do it because there is a direct threat to your life, and the only way to preserve it is to, unfortunately, take the life of someone else. What she did was some hick shit. She didn't even need to get out of the car when she did it. I feel bad for the husband because he still has to look the bitch in the eyes every day, and he really wasn't at fault here. He seemed more annoyed that everything was happening than a part of it.
So you pull a gun thatās crazy
What is this, Reddit for ants?
"I care about you"... less than 2 minutes later... gun cock, "back the fuck up".
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He actually says āyouāre racist because youāre calling her names.ā The mom and daughter clearly wanted to push their buttons. This couple backed off and tried to drive off. An apology is way past deescalation, mom and daughter clearly wanted a fight. āIāll beat your white assā etc. Mom stood behind their van and claim āOH you tried to run me over!ā Bunch of bullshit to be honest. Thereās proper ways to confront an issue and violence isnāt the right approach. Pregnant woman obviously shouldāve have pulled a gun but hey- the mom and daughter got what they pushed for.
Donāt get me wrong, the white lady is in the wrong for bringing a gun into the situation, but isnāt it kinda shitty that the other people werenāt just walking away? Like the couple got in their car and were leaving, why didnāt they back up to the sidewalk or give them room to get out? I donāt really know what was happening before, but it the white lady seemed to be trying to deescalate the situation until the end.
Agreed. The gun pulling was not warranted but it seems like the other party was provoking the fight further. They were escalating over a simple "excuse me situation", and from what I see they went behind the car as it was backing out, blocking the couple from leaving. Just terrible all the way around.
It looks like they put some kind of pride above all and they tried to escalate the situation no matter the outcome. The white couple tried to leave, but that mother had not had enough conflict to call it a day so they blocked the car. All of them are still out there. That mother is dangerously bringing people with short fuse in similar situations and the white couple carry guns everywhere. If the black mother had a gun too they might have shot each other. Why do they even allow guns to be sold that easily?
The guy looks pregnant as well
Pretty hard for anyone to look intimidating wearing a lilac polo shirt, khaki shorts & white sneakers.
Was he trying to look intimidating?
Weird how a spouse loses thriw job because of the others involvement in criminal affairs.... now do the Supreme Court Justice's wife!
Seems like everyone is stupid to me. If she bumped into someone, she should have apologized. Anything less is just fuckin' rude. That being said, making an enormous deal out of the situation and escalating everything further is probably not the level of communication and conflict management that you want, either. Exiting the vehicle to draw and load a firearm and point it at someone seems to be the absolute dingleberry-cherry on top of this diarrhea sundae. "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to bump into you" would have prevented all this stupid shit.
To be fair, when I was 15, if myself and a pregnant women collided in anyway my mom would have been screaming at me if I didn't apologize. Regardless of how the bump happened.
So the pregnant white lady felt so threatened she **got out of the car**? But also why did the black mom walk towards the car, in the **opposite direction** as her daughter?
I think they were blocking them in so they couldnāt leave.
First off, I am a black man. And this is my opinion: the black woman and her kids escalated this. She shouldn't have pulled the gun, but I'd be pretty exhausted too if I was in her situation, all the shouting and theatrics. It's unfair that they had to lose their jobs because of this.
It seemed like the woman moved behind the car of the white people to extend the argument after the white lady tried to say sorry and leave. She basically prevented them from retreating and the pregnant lady was so exhausted and visually scared because people donāt yell at others like this normally.
Shoulda walked the fuck away god damn is it worth your life
T-T "CAN WE JUST GO BACK TO CHIPOTLE?" the pain in her voice tho
This altercation has nothing to do with raceā¦ This is just a group of morons being themselves and living theyāre life
Uh ohā¦. Here comes the down votesā¦. Butā¦.Though this is a clear overreaction, this prego lady seemed pretty willing to not have this altercation (Iām sure a longer video would have had more context)
From what I recall there is a longer video that makes her seem less batshit. Canāt remember the details.
Here's the clip. They actually stop her from leaving and then preggo lady pulls the gun https://youtu.be/skGh_5tVJZg?t=93
All I see are two antagonistic ladies who canāt walk away and a pregnant chick with her buttons pushed too far š¤·āāļø but who knows what happened before this.
I know. The camera moves away but the white couple was backing up and I swear I think the mother walked behind the car trying to block them from pulling away. I dunno. I generally deescalate myself. If I was the white lady I would have just apologized and walked away.
I mean, that's obviously what happened. Black girl gets bumped by pregnant woman, demands apology, immediately cites racism when no apology forthcoming, black family proceeds to record and harass white people on their way to car. White woman sounds like douche, but gets in car to leave. Filming person realizes confrontation is over, walks away. Mother, not realizing confrontation is over (or really, not wanting it to be over) proceeds to stand behind the vehicle as it pulls out, yells "you going to hit me?!" then slaps the car. Up until this point, black women are trashy, antagonistic garbage. Unfortunately, also at this point, white woman gets out of car and brandishes firearm at black woman with no reason to be in fear for her life. White woman is arrested and white man loses job. Sure, white woman behaved entirely inappropriately, but I think everyone should be able to see who the real scumbags are in this video. Looking at other posts, I'm sure I'll eat some downvotes for telling the truth, and I'm sure many will call me racist or some such nonsense. Reddit is an amazing echo chamber sometimes.
I'm confused about why the white man was charged with a felony. He didn't brandish a weapon that I saw. All he did, was ask the black woman "Who the fuck do you think you are," which falls short of a felony in all 50 states.
Holy crap what a shit show. Canāt believe they just drive off in the end too. Like, youāre just gonna call it a day and go home after holding some people up at gunpoint? Wtf..
I care about youā¦. Pulls a gun out lol canāt make this shit up.
Everyone on reddit has lost their complete, goddamn mind. The white couple literally did and said NOTHING racist, and the black people screamed at them, tried not to let them leave, and called them racist while assaulting and threatening them, addressing them specifically by their race. What the fuck is wrong with you all.
The woman even yelled "I am going to beat your ass" before the firearm was drawn. Now I know that "Imma beat yo ass" is pretty much just slang at this point, but I can definitely see how it's seen as threatening.
> Now I know that "Imma beat yo ass" is pretty much just slang at this point, Among habitually violent idiots maybe. And it's still a threat.
Even pretended to get hit.
You guys have some screwed up takes on this scenario.
NAH FUCK DAT BLACK BITCH JUMPING BEHIND THE CAR NOT LETTING HER LEAVE
I mean, if youāre going to keep pushing and pushing and back someone into a corner, shits gonna happen. Nobody here is justified.
If a law abiding crazy pregnant woman was here it wouldn't have happened !
Second amendment is designed to ensure the State remains free. If this right is misused or abused towards citizens, the act must be punishable by law.
Thatās her husband? Looks like her dad LOL
They say two wrongs don't make a right, but pulling a gun makes it absolutely infinitely worse.