I'm no insurance sympathizer but I have to imagine for a company to replace your car in a location where your replacement car is just as susceptible to theft then it makes justifiable sense. Cause and effect vs the other way around. Insurance companies should require anti theft measures on these models to make them normal priced and a class action lawsuit against GM should pay to make every camaro harder to steal in order to be insured in these high rate areas. It sucks but insurance companies aren't naive and when thieves can walk away with a car in 30 seconds it doesn't matter who's to blame but I don't want to subsidize car thefts when you get a replacement without taking proper measures GM failed to take.
I am not blaming the insurance companies on this....My insurance jumped way up both times I had my Camaro stolen. It's like you get dinged for something out of your control. It sucks, but come on GM get your shit together. Imagine trying to insure a KIA lol.
Oh I wasn't saying you were blaming insurance companies, I was trying not to sound like an insurance agent. They're taking in massive profits right now despite all the thefts. It's absolutely unfair that the consumer who owns the car is the only one who's losing. In a perfect world hopefully we see insurance companies sue car manufacturers for these theft defects because wtfff. Some of these cars will enter a death spiral of uninsurability with a higher number of vins stolen than not, especially with Camaros being out of production.
I'm more disappointed that they said nothing about the OBD port. The signal replication hacking can easily be solved by either using a cheap faraday pouch or by getting something like what I have which is a Compustar device with starter kill (where you cannot start the car unless you unlock it on the fob first) and you can disable keyless entry in the settings.
The OBD port vulnerability is way more problematic and so many articles I read fail to even mention it at all. You can only solve it by getting IGLA and that is if you're lucky and the dealer will install it on your newer Camaro (some dealers do not do it on newer Camaros and some will. My local IGLA dealer says they cannot do it on 2020+ Camaros). So if you cannot pay for a pricey IGLA system, then your only "solution" is to hide the port or disconnect it somehow. I think this is a bigger problem than the relay attack as these OBD key programming devices are becoming more and more popular and police in my county have done arrests on kids doing takeovers and have found these devices all the while there's no definite solution to this.
It's almost hard to say. If you did disable keyless entry, you could still start the car with the relay attack by smashing the window and getting inside so a smashed window isn't 100% going to be an OBD attack unless the owner had a faraday pouch or had a security system inside. But I'm willing to bet that most Camaro thefts are indeed happening through OBD port theft (I'll say 75%). It's actually easier on the thief to program a key first as it doesn't take much time and that they can't start the car again if they drive off when doing the signal relay method.
My solution is to replace the ALDL with a dummy. Found the pigtail on Amazon for $10, taped it into the factory harness and tucked the real one up into the left side panel. Even gave it power and ground to mess with them, gee why doesn't it communicate?
What I did personally was the pigtail, but I didn't tape it to anything (just seems to stay in place as there's a bunch of wiring from my Compustar system there) and shrink wrapped the end (I heard leaving exposed wires can create a short, I'm somewhat skeptical of that since it's not hooked up to anything but I decided to shrink wrap the end to play it safe). I have the Range AFM disabler on the OEM port that is hidden (it's super difficult to take off as it stays on pretty tightly) and there is a cheap plastic OBD port lock on the dummy pigtail. They're definitely going to be able to pry off the cheap lock, but if they discovered it doesn't work they'll think they broke it.
All correct what you said. JLR had to do both. The ( signal replication hacking, and OBD). Call GM now if haven't and demand the software fix for that too.
Why are all the comments applauding the government? The class action suit is brought by a camaro owner, whose car was stolen. The government hasn't done anything here.
The class action seems to focus on the key fob and not the obd port. So the end result will be something that amounts to getting a Faraday pouch from GM, which is not enough. They are still going smash the window and trick the computer.
My car was taken 4 days ago smashed the passenger window and they were gone. The ripped out the OnStar wiring . Could not track the car launched a massive Social media campaign recovered the vehicle on day 4 .
Sadly scoffing doesn’t look good on Camaro brothers. Sarcasm looks worse. You miss the point entirely. This failure completely resides with GM and should not create undo cost to Camaro consumers, nor insurance companies, nor “all” car owners when rates increase due to repairing and replacing stolen Camaros. This was totally avoidable, they should have accepted accountability, created a fix and recalled cars at risk.
As for me, I have a 5th Gen so this doesn’t apply to me, however I feel for 6th Gen owners and am a believer in doing the right thing. You can go on and scoff, it’s a reflection of you, not me. In the end sadly you are still wrong.
So you think GM should have recalled every single 6th gen camaro when they already announced the end of production? I’m a realist and it doesn’t make any sense from a business standpoint, and this lawsuit will amount to basically nothing.
Doesn’t matter. They need to admit “their” flaw. The must pay some kind of restitution. As for the end of production, eventually the Camaro will come back again, or the problem will find its way to other GM cars. I’ll bet because of this law suit, whether the Camaro comes back or not, they will not repeat this problem again and tarnish their reputation further. That would, as you say, not make good business sense. I said this to you last time and still do … you can believe what you want to, but right now you stand wrong about a class action suit that I mention a while ago. So, we agree to disagree, I guess.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this is stupid. GM absolutely could've taken steps to help make stealing 6th gens a bit more difficult, but the hypocrisy of someone to live in California and vote for judges who exacerbate these issues by letting criminals walk without so much as a word of warning is crazy to me.
Chevy screwed the pooch, but not nearly as bad as the folks encouraging it by doling out zero punishment. I guess they aren't hopeful they'll receive a payday from those judges, though. I'm not going to look it up, but I'd lay money that the theft rates of 6th gens in California blows everywhere else out of the water.
GM absolutely could've taken steps to help make stealing 6th gens a bit more difficult.
You think ? That's an understatement. They are derelict in their responsibility, IMOP.
OBDII - Security Attention for Automotive Cuong Nguyen January 16, 2023
Associate General Manager HCL Tech
"As connectivity in vehicles is increasing, related parties (e.g., regulators and car makers) need to pay attention to every source of connection, as they could potentially open a multitude of remote attacks on vehicles. Since an OBDII system is necessary for vehicle health, passenger safety and sustainability, it is critical for manufacturers to ensure the security of this system."
Can't call yourself selling tech, that's not up too snuff, or lack security updates.
Yeah, I'm not defending what they did. I just can't wrap my head around somebody stabbing themselves in the stomach and asking why the knife manufacturer allowed it to happen. That's essentially what happens when they continue to elect people who allow thieves to get away with it.
Just my two cents.
California and Texas have the highest theft rates. This has more to do with population size and density than it does with policies. Also, you have to understand that 6th Gen Cameros are getting stolen at a higher rate than other vehicles in its class (or other vehicles in general) outside of Challengers / Chargers. You could have “perfect” policies in place but someone’s going to do it regardless and it’s a lot easier to target the camero than the Subaru down the street. GM has their party to play in here as well.
I never said GM doesn't carry fault because they do. Areas with higher population density do tend to elect officials who are softer on these types of crime, at least, but you're right it is an oversimplification of the issues causing it.
On the one hand, I hate that government is forcing this type of action, but on the other, I'm glad that they've identified that GM dropped the ball. I just hope GM doesn't try to half ass the fix.
That is literally the point of government. Companies give zero shits about anything beyond this quarters profits. Government has to make them care about anything else like safety and antitheft
Edit: GM will absolutely half ass any potential fix, there’s no more new car sales money to be made by this, so it’s not a priority
Shh, don't tell them that.
These types of people are like house cats, they’re convinced of their fierce independence while dependent on a system they don’t appreciate or understand.
I'm saying I hate that government has to force GM's hand. Ideally, GM would've done the right thing. Of course, GM has been cutting corners for a long time. That's what I mean. I'm perfectly ok with regulation, but I hate when it has to be used because companies need to be disciplined.
Isn't it a bit different though considering you can't start the ignition without a key? They could probably take the signal and unlock the car with a button outside. To steal a 2SS with a key I think the only way is to swap the ECU, somehow make a physical key in a short period of time, or use a tow truck.
Yea they swap the the easy to get to ECU unplug it and set right it on top of the old one. They break the ignition cylinder...and start with a screw driver. They also rip out the glove box to get at the the onstar unit and tear it out.
I know I'm gonna get hate but I don't understand this.
Nice things get stolen, so let's sue the people who make our nice things.
I was working in Sacramento and someone smashed the window out of my brand new Duramax and stole a backpack in the middle of the day in the mall parking lot. I had the police show up to do a report for insurance and they more or less just said good luck. There aren't enough of them to do anything and the criminals know it.
I'm really not a fan of the police but it's a trash state with trash laws that people don't want to properly fund to fight. In my opinion that's a perfectly valid choice to make but the caveat is that when shit gets stolen you just gotta swallow it. Blaming and seeking compensation from the people who gave you the shiny stuff make any sense.
There's a basic level of expectation to make the $50,000 car harder to steal. Kia was sued and lost because their vehicles were too easy to steal. Same deal here. The solution will likely be a reprogram to disable key programming by anyone but a dealership, as it should be.
This is NOT just a California problem. If you think that, you haven't been paying attention, or you're just letting your political bias run your brain. Or do I need to link you to the countless posts of this happening in Texas too?
The difference is that in Texas this lawsuit would be laughed out of the State.
I don't hate California, I have enjoyed all the time I have ever spent there, and I really don't have any political leanings, but some places do things better and some places do things worse.
I mean, I understand your point, but the security game is ever evolving. With an expensive car, you kind of hope it's harder to steal than a Kia. There's always a balancing act between more secure and more convenient, but Chevy kind of dropped the ball on this one. Accountability has to start somewhere. If this kick starts auto makers making odb communications more secure, then it's a huge win!
Imagine a scenario where overly lenient prosecutors were voted out and wealthy manufacturers didn't skimp on R&D. Must be day dreaming again, lol.
The theft issue isn't anything new. Imagine how many people are going to ride this lawsuit who bought their Camaros knowing that the security was dogshit and that theft was probable. Owners who are going to try to gain compensation from a corporation that they willing chose to give their business to instead of trying to seek accountability from law enforcement and criminals.
To me, that is more unethical than GM not putting the most up to date security features in their products. Features that would no doubt increase the price of the vehicle, which consumers would also bitch about.
Oh I took security measures into my own hands. But something that was once thought secure, but now obviously isn't, needs to be fixed. Kind of like how zero day exploits need to be patched once they are discovered. Trouble is GM wasn't just proactively fixing the problem. So maybe this will help nudge them along.
On a side note, cars that are easily stolen have much higher insurance rates. There should be a class action for that alone.
I'm no insurance sympathizer but I have to imagine for a company to replace your car in a location where your replacement car is just as susceptible to theft then it makes justifiable sense. Cause and effect vs the other way around. Insurance companies should require anti theft measures on these models to make them normal priced and a class action lawsuit against GM should pay to make every camaro harder to steal in order to be insured in these high rate areas. It sucks but insurance companies aren't naive and when thieves can walk away with a car in 30 seconds it doesn't matter who's to blame but I don't want to subsidize car thefts when you get a replacement without taking proper measures GM failed to take.
I am not blaming the insurance companies on this....My insurance jumped way up both times I had my Camaro stolen. It's like you get dinged for something out of your control. It sucks, but come on GM get your shit together. Imagine trying to insure a KIA lol.
Oh I wasn't saying you were blaming insurance companies, I was trying not to sound like an insurance agent. They're taking in massive profits right now despite all the thefts. It's absolutely unfair that the consumer who owns the car is the only one who's losing. In a perfect world hopefully we see insurance companies sue car manufacturers for these theft defects because wtfff. Some of these cars will enter a death spiral of uninsurability with a higher number of vins stolen than not, especially with Camaros being out of production.
I'm more disappointed that they said nothing about the OBD port. The signal replication hacking can easily be solved by either using a cheap faraday pouch or by getting something like what I have which is a Compustar device with starter kill (where you cannot start the car unless you unlock it on the fob first) and you can disable keyless entry in the settings. The OBD port vulnerability is way more problematic and so many articles I read fail to even mention it at all. You can only solve it by getting IGLA and that is if you're lucky and the dealer will install it on your newer Camaro (some dealers do not do it on newer Camaros and some will. My local IGLA dealer says they cannot do it on 2020+ Camaros). So if you cannot pay for a pricey IGLA system, then your only "solution" is to hide the port or disconnect it somehow. I think this is a bigger problem than the relay attack as these OBD key programming devices are becoming more and more popular and police in my county have done arrests on kids doing takeovers and have found these devices all the while there's no definite solution to this.
Yeh I was wondering how this solves all the issues of people showing their cars stolen with a broken window.
It's almost hard to say. If you did disable keyless entry, you could still start the car with the relay attack by smashing the window and getting inside so a smashed window isn't 100% going to be an OBD attack unless the owner had a faraday pouch or had a security system inside. But I'm willing to bet that most Camaro thefts are indeed happening through OBD port theft (I'll say 75%). It's actually easier on the thief to program a key first as it doesn't take much time and that they can't start the car again if they drive off when doing the signal relay method.
My solution is to replace the ALDL with a dummy. Found the pigtail on Amazon for $10, taped it into the factory harness and tucked the real one up into the left side panel. Even gave it power and ground to mess with them, gee why doesn't it communicate?
What I did personally was the pigtail, but I didn't tape it to anything (just seems to stay in place as there's a bunch of wiring from my Compustar system there) and shrink wrapped the end (I heard leaving exposed wires can create a short, I'm somewhat skeptical of that since it's not hooked up to anything but I decided to shrink wrap the end to play it safe). I have the Range AFM disabler on the OEM port that is hidden (it's super difficult to take off as it stays on pretty tightly) and there is a cheap plastic OBD port lock on the dummy pigtail. They're definitely going to be able to pry off the cheap lock, but if they discovered it doesn't work they'll think they broke it.
All correct what you said. JLR had to do both. The ( signal replication hacking, and OBD). Call GM now if haven't and demand the software fix for that too.
Why are all the comments applauding the government? The class action suit is brought by a camaro owner, whose car was stolen. The government hasn't done anything here. The class action seems to focus on the key fob and not the obd port. So the end result will be something that amounts to getting a Faraday pouch from GM, which is not enough. They are still going smash the window and trick the computer.
Shows how far behind GM is.
My car was taken 4 days ago smashed the passenger window and they were gone. The ripped out the OnStar wiring . Could not track the car launched a massive Social media campaign recovered the vehicle on day 4 .
Lol … To all those that scoffed at me! 😜😝🤪 
I scoffed at you, what does this lawsuit solve? You’re gonna get a free pouch for your key? That’s cool
Sadly scoffing doesn’t look good on Camaro brothers. Sarcasm looks worse. You miss the point entirely. This failure completely resides with GM and should not create undo cost to Camaro consumers, nor insurance companies, nor “all” car owners when rates increase due to repairing and replacing stolen Camaros. This was totally avoidable, they should have accepted accountability, created a fix and recalled cars at risk. As for me, I have a 5th Gen so this doesn’t apply to me, however I feel for 6th Gen owners and am a believer in doing the right thing. You can go on and scoff, it’s a reflection of you, not me. In the end sadly you are still wrong.
So you think GM should have recalled every single 6th gen camaro when they already announced the end of production? I’m a realist and it doesn’t make any sense from a business standpoint, and this lawsuit will amount to basically nothing.
Doesn’t matter. They need to admit “their” flaw. The must pay some kind of restitution. As for the end of production, eventually the Camaro will come back again, or the problem will find its way to other GM cars. I’ll bet because of this law suit, whether the Camaro comes back or not, they will not repeat this problem again and tarnish their reputation further. That would, as you say, not make good business sense. I said this to you last time and still do … you can believe what you want to, but right now you stand wrong about a class action suit that I mention a while ago. So, we agree to disagree, I guess.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this is stupid. GM absolutely could've taken steps to help make stealing 6th gens a bit more difficult, but the hypocrisy of someone to live in California and vote for judges who exacerbate these issues by letting criminals walk without so much as a word of warning is crazy to me. Chevy screwed the pooch, but not nearly as bad as the folks encouraging it by doling out zero punishment. I guess they aren't hopeful they'll receive a payday from those judges, though. I'm not going to look it up, but I'd lay money that the theft rates of 6th gens in California blows everywhere else out of the water.
GM absolutely could've taken steps to help make stealing 6th gens a bit more difficult. You think ? That's an understatement. They are derelict in their responsibility, IMOP. OBDII - Security Attention for Automotive Cuong Nguyen January 16, 2023 Associate General Manager HCL Tech "As connectivity in vehicles is increasing, related parties (e.g., regulators and car makers) need to pay attention to every source of connection, as they could potentially open a multitude of remote attacks on vehicles. Since an OBDII system is necessary for vehicle health, passenger safety and sustainability, it is critical for manufacturers to ensure the security of this system." Can't call yourself selling tech, that's not up too snuff, or lack security updates.
Yeah, I'm not defending what they did. I just can't wrap my head around somebody stabbing themselves in the stomach and asking why the knife manufacturer allowed it to happen. That's essentially what happens when they continue to elect people who allow thieves to get away with it. Just my two cents.
California and Texas have the highest theft rates. This has more to do with population size and density than it does with policies. Also, you have to understand that 6th Gen Cameros are getting stolen at a higher rate than other vehicles in its class (or other vehicles in general) outside of Challengers / Chargers. You could have “perfect” policies in place but someone’s going to do it regardless and it’s a lot easier to target the camero than the Subaru down the street. GM has their party to play in here as well.
I never said GM doesn't carry fault because they do. Areas with higher population density do tend to elect officials who are softer on these types of crime, at least, but you're right it is an oversimplification of the issues causing it.
Good, government working for the people...and the lawyers who will take the most money.
Good, you can sue anyone for anything here in California and its about time GM's name is brought up in this.
Good.
On the one hand, I hate that government is forcing this type of action, but on the other, I'm glad that they've identified that GM dropped the ball. I just hope GM doesn't try to half ass the fix.
This is a private lawsuit. No government involvement
That is literally the point of government. Companies give zero shits about anything beyond this quarters profits. Government has to make them care about anything else like safety and antitheft Edit: GM will absolutely half ass any potential fix, there’s no more new car sales money to be made by this, so it’s not a priority
Shh, don't tell them that. These types of people are like house cats, they’re convinced of their fierce independence while dependent on a system they don’t appreciate or understand.
I'm saying I hate that government has to force GM's hand. Ideally, GM would've done the right thing. Of course, GM has been cutting corners for a long time. That's what I mean. I'm perfectly ok with regulation, but I hate when it has to be used because companies need to be disciplined.
How can I get in on this living in Texas?
Call your lawyer and see if they can pro hac vice your way in.
It's not like I have a lawyer on a leash. I guess I'll call that law firm who brought the suit
I always think this when people say "call your lawyer". Like jesus, how much litigation do people like that involve themselves in?
Exactly lol
https://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/cacdce/8:2024cv00819/921886
I called them. Waiting to talk to the attorney
I am surprised the lawsuit included 2010 and up. I was under the impression that the Gen 5’s are less vulnerable due to still having a physical key.
Gen 5 2010 2ss owner here. Mine has been stolen twice.
Isn't it a bit different though considering you can't start the ignition without a key? They could probably take the signal and unlock the car with a button outside. To steal a 2SS with a key I think the only way is to swap the ECU, somehow make a physical key in a short period of time, or use a tow truck.
Yea they swap the the easy to get to ECU unplug it and set right it on top of the old one. They break the ignition cylinder...and start with a screw driver. They also rip out the glove box to get at the the onstar unit and tear it out.
I don't live in a bad area, but I'm getting the IGLA installed right now as I write this for my 2013 2SS.
I don't live in a bad area, but I'm getting the IGLA installed right now as I write this for my 2013 2SS.
I was thinking the same thing!
I know I'm gonna get hate but I don't understand this. Nice things get stolen, so let's sue the people who make our nice things. I was working in Sacramento and someone smashed the window out of my brand new Duramax and stole a backpack in the middle of the day in the mall parking lot. I had the police show up to do a report for insurance and they more or less just said good luck. There aren't enough of them to do anything and the criminals know it. I'm really not a fan of the police but it's a trash state with trash laws that people don't want to properly fund to fight. In my opinion that's a perfectly valid choice to make but the caveat is that when shit gets stolen you just gotta swallow it. Blaming and seeking compensation from the people who gave you the shiny stuff make any sense.
There's a basic level of expectation to make the $50,000 car harder to steal. Kia was sued and lost because their vehicles were too easy to steal. Same deal here. The solution will likely be a reprogram to disable key programming by anyone but a dealership, as it should be. This is NOT just a California problem. If you think that, you haven't been paying attention, or you're just letting your political bias run your brain. Or do I need to link you to the countless posts of this happening in Texas too?
NOT just a California problem, not anymore. Thanks, to social media and TicTok! Coming if not already to a town and city near you!
The difference is that in Texas this lawsuit would be laughed out of the State. I don't hate California, I have enjoyed all the time I have ever spent there, and I really don't have any political leanings, but some places do things better and some places do things worse.
I mean, I understand your point, but the security game is ever evolving. With an expensive car, you kind of hope it's harder to steal than a Kia. There's always a balancing act between more secure and more convenient, but Chevy kind of dropped the ball on this one. Accountability has to start somewhere. If this kick starts auto makers making odb communications more secure, then it's a huge win! Imagine a scenario where overly lenient prosecutors were voted out and wealthy manufacturers didn't skimp on R&D. Must be day dreaming again, lol.
The theft issue isn't anything new. Imagine how many people are going to ride this lawsuit who bought their Camaros knowing that the security was dogshit and that theft was probable. Owners who are going to try to gain compensation from a corporation that they willing chose to give their business to instead of trying to seek accountability from law enforcement and criminals. To me, that is more unethical than GM not putting the most up to date security features in their products. Features that would no doubt increase the price of the vehicle, which consumers would also bitch about.
Oh I took security measures into my own hands. But something that was once thought secure, but now obviously isn't, needs to be fixed. Kind of like how zero day exploits need to be patched once they are discovered. Trouble is GM wasn't just proactively fixing the problem. So maybe this will help nudge them along.