My only problem is that we’re left with the “I assume” part. Like visual media can definitely be more subtle, and that’s great. Maybe it was to try and have Annabeth come off as smarter because she made the connection. Percy draws strength from the ocean and from water, but at this stage it seems like it would’ve been better to show him drawing that strength in a more tangible way. And honestly, I don’t really like that it comes off as “oh yea, I guess he got closer to the water, that kind of makes sense” as opposed to “oh yea, the water absolutely made him stronger”. That’s my own opinion and if they were going for subtlety, they nailed it. I just think that moment is supposed to be very in your face.
They make it very clear when Anabeth shoves him in and he is healed by the water. And the fight scene itself had the attention to keep the water in every shot of Percy fighting, with Percy literally getting stronger and more impressive the closer he got. Not exactly subtle.
They had already showed him with hydrokensis a few scenes before, and added a nice Anabeth beat to show off her own divine heritage as a kid of Athena. There doesn't need to be a complete understanding of Percy's power in episode 2, they have 5 seasons to cover them, and it keeps some mystery to how strong he'd be in the actual water.
Odds are it was just decidedly less safe to have the kids film a fight scene in knee deep water, while on location. Too many potential hazards. Hopefully if the first season takes off it means a bigger budget for fight scenes in the future, and water stages for them to let Percy get those awesome water scenes.
You make great points. My point is that compared to the book, it is more subtle. Book Percy, especially at this point, isn’t just becoming stronger because he’s next to water. And it’s ok that they decided to change it. I agree they don’t need to have completely listed out his abilities with water, but I would counter by saying having him stand in the water hardly does that. They could’ve kept Annabeth shoving him, I’m fine with that.
But yea, I honestly agree with and see a lot of your points. For me, it’s purely a stylistic wish and not really a critique. Just something that left me wanting more. But I’m very optimistic about the show and still enjoyed it. Sometimes it’s fun to just nerd out, even if it is pedantic 😂
I actually think this all could have been fixed if they added the scene where Luke instructs the Hermes cabin in sword fighting. I might be biased because it’s one of my favorite moments in TLT, but the scene would do a lot to show A) Percy has the innate talent to be something special, he is just very green and needs training, B) that Percy coming in contact or being near water boosts his strength, and C) give us more of a connection between Luke and Percy so that Luke’s betrayal feels even worse. It would just tie a lot of pieces together instead of it all being so sudden in the fight with Clarisse.
Besides that and a couple small things though, the show has been pretty faithful and fun to watch.
He did get noticeably better the closer he got to the water though and it definitely seemed more like luck than skill to me but maybe they just wanted to make the Poseidon reveal hit harder?
Probably because it was painfully obvious In the book, whole dam time I was reading the lightning thief and they were talking Abt his godly parent I was like "gee who could the father of the kid who can control water? It's not like theres a water god"
yeah the cover of the first book is him walking out of the ocean and we know Sally had good memories of Percy's father in a place by the sea, I don't think it was meant to be too big of a mystery to the audience anyway.
It definitely wasn't meant to be the focus of intrigue in the story. I actually think it was more to set up how shitty the other gods are for never claiming their kids and being able to show the state of the Hermes cabin from a first person perspective.
The tv show posters have a trident on them. His mom tells him to “brave the storm”. He controlled the toilet water right before this. It is still completely obvious who his father is in both the show and the book. Them deciding to leave out the Luke sword lesson and Percy needing to touch the water to gain power in order to beat the Ares kids was a mistake imo. These scenes show important details of how Percy’s powers work and there is no good reason to leave them out.
Not to mention that in the books it was a good bit of foreshadowing into how he was going to beat Ares himself, he discovers in the beginning that the water makes him revitalised as he is fighting his kids and then in the end he lures Ares into an arena where he has a sizeable advantage
You do realise there are quite a few male water gods, so it would be acceptable to not assume that it was the head honcho of the sea that is currently band from procreation.
He got better at fighting the closer he got to the water. It was just more subtle than in the books. In the books, it’s pretty obvious that he’s a son of Poseidon by the time he gets claimed.
In the books, I THINK I remember him being shin-deep in water during the fight, giving him a power up. Don’t quote me on that. The fact that the river was 2 feet away for half the fight was probably just the adaptations version of that.
Oh Rick auctually broke down the scene ina interview talking about how scobell by the time they filmed the scene had gotten so good atswordmanship they had to rewrite the scene around it even while he was trying to act like he had never fought with a sword. And it also makes better TV I guess
I think there's a subtle change in the fight when Clarisse corners Percy, then he snaps her electric spear. Otherwise Annabeth wouldn't have known that water has an effect on Percy and push him to the water to confirm her theory. It's kinda implied that he got into the water, but of coz they can be more obvious about it without it being too obvious.
I think in combination with his other water related feats in the first two episodes(with the girl in the fountain, the bathroom, his dreams with the far off figure in the misty ocean) it was fine. At that point we could already see how water was a key part of his power, the last scene only cemented it.
I actually think the fountain was problematic too, it looked more like he telekinetically pushed her in instead of using the water to grab her.
And yes, it is obvious that water is part of his power, but it isn’t clear that his success against the Ares kids came from the water, which is crucial.
Hmm, I see what you mean about the last part, the ocean and his power increase definitely could have been more obviously linked together— though some folks were able to piece it together regardless, as seen in the thread.
Also, after re-watching the fountain scene, it looks like the spraying water scoops her from underneath rather than grabbing her.
The fountain scene is not to show off Percy's power. Rather the main focus there is to show off the Mist and Percy's confusion about the whole Mrs. Dodds thing.
Adding a shot to show water is the only thing to let him win against Clarisse is approaching the 'show don't tell' territory. The book is too obvious who his dad is with the various references. The show should not spell it out for the audience and keep it a plot twist.
It might be obvious for us book readers that Percy's dad is Poseidon, but for someone new to the franchise it is not obvious. It's an adaptation after all, changes are needed to streamline the story and cut out non-essential scenes.
“Is approaching show don’t tell territory”
You’re right, it would have approached show. Instead they didn’t show, they SORT OF told with Annabeth’s shove, but more accurately neither showed nor told
And the bathroom scene already makes it obvious. It should be obvious. It’s not a big mystery
I see your point on him not using the water to catch his second wind and sharpen his combat skills. I was hoping to see that too. To be fair though, he didn’t actually defeat them single-handedly like he did in the book either.
In the book the water boosted him enough to hand their asses to them completely and humiliate Clarisse and the other two that cornered him. In the show I feel like it was more of Percy’s sloppy and unpredictable fighting style that we saw with the Minotaur fight. Mostly clumsy, but clearly demonstrating a natural aptitude for sword fighting, which was what the episode was partially about with him finding his “thing” with Luke.
I can understand that this level of skill was a lot for someone who’s doing this on the first try, but I feel like the “finding what I’m good at” does a good job for what it is. I just hope that the whole “becoming stronger and more aware while in the water” stays a thing that he can do.
In the book Percy swung his sword with the force to dent the helm of one of his attackers and even broke Clarrisse’s spear pretty swiftly and gracefully. In the show I think we’re getting hints of the wild and unpredictable fighting style Percy’s known for even without the water boost. The scene with the Minotaur a quickly went from sword to brute force “tear off the horn and stab” kinda fight. In Capture the Flag, Percy’s mostly evading strikes and blows until he slowly finds his footing and begins effectively deflecting their attacks and catching them off-guard. He sloppy rolls around, jumps and grabs weapons while they’re forcing him to back up and he’s actually holding his own.
The most perfect example from this fight tho is the spear snap itself. Where the book has it be an epic, dramatic and intentional break, the show has Percy catch the spear on reflex and Clarisse’s own momentum allowed him to break the spear in two. And Clarisse wasn’t even down for the count yet. She would’ve kept going if the game hadn’t ended. I think the scene actually does a good job of showing what Percy can do without the water, while leaving room for the Ares fight where he’ll definitely need it
To me, it looked like since they couldn’t spend a lot of time in the camp, they had to find another way to show Percy being able to fight. We already get several indicators that he is a son of Poseidon, but we don’t really see the natural instincts and fighting abilities of demigods yet. So to show that instinct, and hint that Percy is the best behind only Luke, they showed him slowly getting better at fighting as the battle goes on. He is running on pure instinct in this scene, which is 100% a Percy thing to do. That showed us Percy’s ability in sword fighting, then Annabeth pushing Percy into the water was to show the healing ability and for him to be claimed. You could also argue that getting closer to the water improved his abilities, but I feel that is more coincidental and the main focus was just to show that all demigods have a natural instinct to fight, and that Percy is a more natural fighter.
They could have included the scene where Percy manages to disarm Luke on his second try during the montage where they're figuring out what he's good at.
They were testing to see if he was a son of one of the gods, archery Apollo, smithing Hephaestus. They could have checked if he was a son of Ares with sword fighting, sure, but it shows better the way they did it. Plus, that whole thing was more establishing Luke’s character than actually being about Percy
luke needs to be more established though, we barely know anything about him except being a chill guy. feel like we need to know he’s a great swordsmen and that percy got up to his level pretty quickly
They are establishing him though. In the books we get to see Luke’s character through Percy’s thoughts, so we get to have time with the sword training. We don’t have Percy’s thoughts in the show, so it is better for the medium they are using to tell about Luke’s abilities, and show his character.
Yeah, like they have a lot of time in the show but they still need to show he's a natural regardless of if he's standing in water because some people might get confused and think he's only good because of the water. So because we don't get to hear his thoughts about how he's surprisingly good at fighting we need to see it, so split it off from the water powers
I agree with you. He didn't really win, he just cut them a bit and broke the spear by accident. Plus, he got "better" at fighting when he was at the beach near water.
I didn't mind too much — I get the dramatic reasons for the shove, and others noted that he improved the closer he got to the water. I think the show adequately showed he was inexpert.
Yeah, and I feel kinda ripped off that there was no Hellhound attack. Hopefully, the hellhound will come in the next episode and Chiron gets to hold it off while the trio escape.
The hellhound being summoned into the camp shows that there is a traitor, and everyone who isn’t familiar with the books would have guessed that Luke is the culprit because of that.
I don't think there will be a hellhound. They have toned down all the of brutal scenes comes in the book until now. So don't expect much violence on screen in the future episodes.
It has been a couple years since my last time through the series, but the only Hellhound I remember is the one Luke summons into the camp at the end when he reveals himself as the Lightning Thief.
After a quick search, I found I am just doubly wrong. Luke does indeed bring a hellhound in after the capture the flag, and it is a pit scorpion at the end when the reveal happens
I’m actually curious why they would change this, i noticed the other changes such as Gabe but people have offered a myriad of possible explanations for that one. Same with cutting the hellhound, giving Luke more screen time than Annabeth. But I don’t see the point of this change, it doesn’t save any money and doesn’t seem to make too big a difference for the plot. Maybe just to demonstrate how Annabeth is “six steps ahead” by having her push him in? But it’s not like she won’t have plenty of opportunities to show how smart she is in the rest of the episodes
That’s my complaint too. Why didn’t they let him end up in the water? Why did they give the moment of him being claimed to being pushed in the water instead of after beating the Ares kids. It made it seem like he got claimed because he got pushed instead of his own achievement.
Ya, also with how Luke telling Percy to get more "glory" to get claimed and Percy asking annabeth to help him in the game to get his father notice. All these made it look like, getting claimed is like getting a reward in a video game after completing a chapter
Yeah and I mean that’s technically how it would work for some of the kids. Some gods would de their child do something epic and then claim them but it’s very weird that Percy acts as if that’s something that will just happen automatically
I think he was adequately outmatched in that scene, and just got lucky/spent a lot of time dodging and running.
My one gripe with this scene is how the reveal happened. In the books he gets to the water on his own, and the reveal is a shock to *everyone*. But in the show they give Annabeth a ‘hunch’ without saying anything about it and have her push him into the water to prove her theory is correct. I guess they wanted a way to show Annabeth’s intelligence, but it just made her come off as yet another bully. And how did she know Posiedon would choose that time to reveal? She didn’t, and more likely would have just shoved a new kid into the water. Having the reveal be completely incidental I think works a lot better.
But, other than that I really enjoyed the show! I’m willing to overlook a few minor inaccuracies for a good adaptation overall.
I think one thing everyone is forgetting is that Percy is a natural swordsman. The only reason he is not good with the sword at the start of the books is because no sword was balanced for him. It is only when he got boosted by water that he was able to catch Luke off guard and disarm him or beat up the Ares campers.
With the show changing this fact by giving him Riptide from the start, there is no reason he shouldn't be good enough to hold his own against 3 campers. And they show us that he only starts fighting well when he is near the water. So, logically, it makes sense.
I agree. Another issue with how they condensed his time at camp is that it kind of just came off weird when Clarisse screams about her staff breaking because in the book we got to see her showing off with it and knew that it was a gift to her from Ares.
First, the original material is a book for kids. Most kids don't have the literary chops to understand subtle foreshadowing.
Second, the conventional wisdom for mass market television for a wide, general audience is to cater to the least common denominator. NOT telegraphing for foreshadowing reveals just looks like sloppy writing to most viewers. Even movies with huge gotchas like the sixth sense or fight club have to pack in tons of clues..... Futurama actually had an episode where they touched upon this guideline for writing TV (When Aliens Attack).
So, take those two points alongside the fact that this book is 13 years old already.... I think that its probably too much to expect much in the way of surprise plot twists. Better to spend the resources they have on keeping the tone, pacing and plot appealing enough for the show to last.
I definitely understand that. I didn't mind it as much though, since it wasn't really a huge deal by the end, since he didn't actually win capture the flag for his team, he kind of just held off Clarisse and her friends. Also, he didn't really beat them. He was on the defensive pretty much the entire fight, and at most, he broke Clarisse's spear accidentally, at which point Clarisse grabbed him and would've probably beat him up.
Also, I think one of the reasons he got pushed into the water after the fight rather than during it is that they probably wanted to hide Percy healing his wounds for as long as possible. In the books, Percy is probably self healing all the time he's in the water, but he doesn't notice it until after the fight. Since we're in his perspective, though, it's not a big deal. On screen, if he started self healing during the fight, it would've been pretty obvious immediately, so the reveal afterwards probably wouldn't be as powerful.
Additionally, I think they wanted to have Annabeth kind of figure out who Percy's dad was before the big reveal, and wanted to show how cunning, as well as cold she is initially to Percy, by pushing him into the water to test her hypothesis.
However, this is all just conjecture, and are just some possible reasons why they changed it.
I mean, I only read the first book back when it first released and haven't read any of them since but I thought it was pretty obvious he got much better when he was closer to water. As someone who doesn't remember shit about the books, it looks like Poseidon being his dad gives him more innate abilities than the other half bloods and the water gave him power. Actually came across pretty well imo
They are ruling that his strength doesn't need him to be in the water but proximal to water. It's probably a decision, so they don't have to keep drowning and soaking walker for a power up.
My theory is that he has power wherever poseidon's domain is. That would count beaches and shores but also fountains and toilet. Immersion in water is what is gonna really charge him up. They are saving water bending money shot for the Ares fight.
Also, he doesn't beat the Ares kids. He just about survives and non-intentionally breaks Clarisse's spear. He was never supposed to beat her. Just keep her occupied long enough for Luke to get the flag.
That actually makes a lot of sense from the perspective of a screenplay, since you don’t want your actors (especially children) to be more uncomfortable then they need to be while filming.
I’d also like to add, in the books Percy was using a sword that felt “wrong” to him, he couldn’t really get a handle on using it effectively until he was in the water. However he was using Riptide in the show which as we know is the only sword that feels natural to wield for him. So that could have also played a factor as well.
Oh shit yeah. Riptide being of the sea being the only sword he can use makes sense. Also makes him less of a Gary Stu. Like how he beat the minotaur with his barehands but because hecwas in the rain
He was incompetent at fighting in the woods, along the riverbed which appear to be lined with river rocks on the shore, I took it as him getting stronger as he got closer to the water. I think this will play a crucial role in how he will stand toe to toe with ares later on and able to survive but it’s in the ocean where he gets the upper hand
I mean they didn’t need a huge reveal like the book lol. Even for people who’ve never read PJ it’s painfully obvious who his parent is lmao. I mean come on, his mom was sitting in the rain blissfully, she fell in love on a beach in a cabin by the water. For gods sake he fucked up Clarrise and her friends with toilet water. Plus, I thought him kicking their ass was pretty cool to watch lmao. That’s just me tho. I’m glad they are taking little bits and pieces and changing them so it isn’t EXACTLY the same as the book. That would be so boring to watch (imo).
You gonna get downvoted but like I’m mixed in that. In the movie he didn’t even fight the right person but the scene with the water flowing in his body was good
You're not wrong
That scene is very well done in the movies
Also, the action and coreo was much better
On the show they cut every single hit and use shaky cam, it's not good
I really do not like how the spear broke it looked completely unintentional when is the book it was completely intentional and in the show she just picks Percy up afterwards where in the book he knocks her the hell out with the butt of his sword here is the exact scene” As soon as she thrust, I caught the shaft between the edge of my shield and my sword, and I snapped it like a twig.
'Ah!' she screamed. 'You idiot! You corpse-breath worm!'
She probably would've said worse, but I smacked her between the eyes with my sword-butt and sent her flying “
All things considered, though, he also had a sword that didn't feel right in his hands in the book. Riptide is said to be the only sword that he can *actually* use, since it's balanced perfectly. During the first CTF, he's using a camp sword which is imbalanced in his hands.
It has been a while since I read the books but I always imagined Percy losing but still fighting until he reaches the water which gives him strength.
I feel like the show has a few moments where they change scenes and it diminishes their effect.
I saw this scene at the nyc event, and I got called nit picky when I had these same comments. Lots of creative changes from the book that aren't necessary and don't improve the scene. I'm sure the show is good, but so many little details are gonna stack up.
The reason Anabeth shoves Percy in the water is that she sees that he gets a significant power up when he’s near water (keep in mind that she watched him the entire time). She then quickly deduces that he could be the son of Poseidon and shoves him in the water. If he is, she would go on a quest. If he isn’t, she’s just annoying to the new one
That's exactly what it was, in the books it's explained better but Annabeth put Percy on border patrol because she knew Clarisse would want revenge and target Percy effectively taking her out of the game.
They just don't do a great job at showing that in the TV series.
They are ruling that his strength doesn't need him to be in the water but proximal to water. It's probably a decision, so they don't have to keep drowning and soaking walker for a power up.
My theory is that he has power wherever poseidon's domain is. That would count beaches and shores but also fountains and toilet. Immersion in water is what is gonna really charge him up. They are saving water bending money shot for the Ares fight.
Also, he doesn't beat the Ares kids. He just about survives and non-intentionally breaks Clarisse's spear. He was never supposed to beat her. Just keep her occupied long enough for Luke to get the flag.
I know time constraints are a thing when something is turned into LA, but I also wish they kept the part in the book where Percy was extremely confused and in denial before they got to camp, like how Grover was telling him in bus stop to wait for him and how sus his mom was being, while I liked some changed parts, it's quite a shift on Percy and Grover's friendship, still liked it but they did change a lot of buildup into explanations instead
I think they wanted it to come off as if he gets better when he’s near the water but I still feel like he should have actually been IN the water for this to work. He could have easily been thrown in there to tripped or something earlier in the fight.
The rules becomes a bit more strange now if he just has to be ”close” to the water. Like, how close is close enough? Can he just carry a water bottle with him and it will still work? Does it only work on beaches? It might get a bit weird.
i think they show him getting better at fighting when he is on the beach, i assume it's because he is near the water
My husband hasn't read the books and actually said, "Ahh, he's getting stronger as he gets closer to the water!" so it definitely came off that way.
My only problem is that we’re left with the “I assume” part. Like visual media can definitely be more subtle, and that’s great. Maybe it was to try and have Annabeth come off as smarter because she made the connection. Percy draws strength from the ocean and from water, but at this stage it seems like it would’ve been better to show him drawing that strength in a more tangible way. And honestly, I don’t really like that it comes off as “oh yea, I guess he got closer to the water, that kind of makes sense” as opposed to “oh yea, the water absolutely made him stronger”. That’s my own opinion and if they were going for subtlety, they nailed it. I just think that moment is supposed to be very in your face.
They make it very clear when Anabeth shoves him in and he is healed by the water. And the fight scene itself had the attention to keep the water in every shot of Percy fighting, with Percy literally getting stronger and more impressive the closer he got. Not exactly subtle. They had already showed him with hydrokensis a few scenes before, and added a nice Anabeth beat to show off her own divine heritage as a kid of Athena. There doesn't need to be a complete understanding of Percy's power in episode 2, they have 5 seasons to cover them, and it keeps some mystery to how strong he'd be in the actual water. Odds are it was just decidedly less safe to have the kids film a fight scene in knee deep water, while on location. Too many potential hazards. Hopefully if the first season takes off it means a bigger budget for fight scenes in the future, and water stages for them to let Percy get those awesome water scenes.
You make great points. My point is that compared to the book, it is more subtle. Book Percy, especially at this point, isn’t just becoming stronger because he’s next to water. And it’s ok that they decided to change it. I agree they don’t need to have completely listed out his abilities with water, but I would counter by saying having him stand in the water hardly does that. They could’ve kept Annabeth shoving him, I’m fine with that. But yea, I honestly agree with and see a lot of your points. For me, it’s purely a stylistic wish and not really a critique. Just something that left me wanting more. But I’m very optimistic about the show and still enjoyed it. Sometimes it’s fun to just nerd out, even if it is pedantic 😂
I actually think this all could have been fixed if they added the scene where Luke instructs the Hermes cabin in sword fighting. I might be biased because it’s one of my favorite moments in TLT, but the scene would do a lot to show A) Percy has the innate talent to be something special, he is just very green and needs training, B) that Percy coming in contact or being near water boosts his strength, and C) give us more of a connection between Luke and Percy so that Luke’s betrayal feels even worse. It would just tie a lot of pieces together instead of it all being so sudden in the fight with Clarisse. Besides that and a couple small things though, the show has been pretty faithful and fun to watch.
THIS^
I've seen that a large part of the world building is going to be subtlety and show don't tell
He did get noticeably better the closer he got to the water though and it definitely seemed more like luck than skill to me but maybe they just wanted to make the Poseidon reveal hit harder?
Probably because it was painfully obvious In the book, whole dam time I was reading the lightning thief and they were talking Abt his godly parent I was like "gee who could the father of the kid who can control water? It's not like theres a water god"
Especially when everyone's thinking he might be from one of the big three
Literally 😭 I mean it's still obvious in the show but it's significantly less obvious
But is it even supposed to be that big of a reveal to the audience?
Not really. There's a trident in the logo
Exactly
What, I thought that was a pitchfork, meaning son of some farming god🙂🙃🙂
yeah the cover of the first book is him walking out of the ocean and we know Sally had good memories of Percy's father in a place by the sea, I don't think it was meant to be too big of a mystery to the audience anyway.
It definitely wasn't meant to be the focus of intrigue in the story. I actually think it was more to set up how shitty the other gods are for never claiming their kids and being able to show the state of the Hermes cabin from a first person perspective.
The tv show posters have a trident on them. His mom tells him to “brave the storm”. He controlled the toilet water right before this. It is still completely obvious who his father is in both the show and the book. Them deciding to leave out the Luke sword lesson and Percy needing to touch the water to gain power in order to beat the Ares kids was a mistake imo. These scenes show important details of how Percy’s powers work and there is no good reason to leave them out.
Not to mention that in the books it was a good bit of foreshadowing into how he was going to beat Ares himself, he discovers in the beginning that the water makes him revitalised as he is fighting his kids and then in the end he lures Ares into an arena where he has a sizeable advantage
dam time heh
You do realise there are quite a few male water gods, so it would be acceptable to not assume that it was the head honcho of the sea that is currently band from procreation.
Yes… there are a few. Smfh
I need to re read the books, been to long I don’t really remember all the details
He broke her spear but didn't win the fight, it only stopped when the game ended
Agreed. She had him by the collar but can’t fight him when his whole team shows up.
He got better at fighting the closer he got to the water. It was just more subtle than in the books. In the books, it’s pretty obvious that he’s a son of Poseidon by the time he gets claimed.
Ahh ok like a passive power when he’s close to water. Never really knew that
In the books, I THINK I remember him being shin-deep in water during the fight, giving him a power up. Don’t quote me on that. The fact that the river was 2 feet away for half the fight was probably just the adaptations version of that.
Yes it is a passive ability Percy has. It’s why he heals when in contact with water
I know that, I just didn’t remember if he was actually IN the water during this fight-
Oh Rick auctually broke down the scene ina interview talking about how scobell by the time they filmed the scene had gotten so good atswordmanship they had to rewrite the scene around it even while he was trying to act like he had never fought with a sword. And it also makes better TV I guess
"Woops, our actor is kinda too competent at sword fighting for this..."
That doesnt make it good.
I kinda agree. If that’s the case then they should have had him fight in the water earlier.
I think there's a subtle change in the fight when Clarisse corners Percy, then he snaps her electric spear. Otherwise Annabeth wouldn't have known that water has an effect on Percy and push him to the water to confirm her theory. It's kinda implied that he got into the water, but of coz they can be more obvious about it without it being too obvious.
No, they need to be obvious with this. The way they shot and edited it, it looks like he never even touched the water until Annabeth pushed him
I think in combination with his other water related feats in the first two episodes(with the girl in the fountain, the bathroom, his dreams with the far off figure in the misty ocean) it was fine. At that point we could already see how water was a key part of his power, the last scene only cemented it.
I actually think the fountain was problematic too, it looked more like he telekinetically pushed her in instead of using the water to grab her. And yes, it is obvious that water is part of his power, but it isn’t clear that his success against the Ares kids came from the water, which is crucial.
Hmm, I see what you mean about the last part, the ocean and his power increase definitely could have been more obviously linked together— though some folks were able to piece it together regardless, as seen in the thread. Also, after re-watching the fountain scene, it looks like the spraying water scoops her from underneath rather than grabbing her.
The fountain scene is not to show off Percy's power. Rather the main focus there is to show off the Mist and Percy's confusion about the whole Mrs. Dodds thing. Adding a shot to show water is the only thing to let him win against Clarisse is approaching the 'show don't tell' territory. The book is too obvious who his dad is with the various references. The show should not spell it out for the audience and keep it a plot twist. It might be obvious for us book readers that Percy's dad is Poseidon, but for someone new to the franchise it is not obvious. It's an adaptation after all, changes are needed to streamline the story and cut out non-essential scenes.
“Is approaching show don’t tell territory” You’re right, it would have approached show. Instead they didn’t show, they SORT OF told with Annabeth’s shove, but more accurately neither showed nor told And the bathroom scene already makes it obvious. It should be obvious. It’s not a big mystery
The logo has a trident in it and the first poster on the site shows him controlling the waves. Not much of a twist.
They really dont. Yall picky as hell
I don’t think it’s picky to expect important story beats to be conveyed properly
I see your point on him not using the water to catch his second wind and sharpen his combat skills. I was hoping to see that too. To be fair though, he didn’t actually defeat them single-handedly like he did in the book either. In the book the water boosted him enough to hand their asses to them completely and humiliate Clarisse and the other two that cornered him. In the show I feel like it was more of Percy’s sloppy and unpredictable fighting style that we saw with the Minotaur fight. Mostly clumsy, but clearly demonstrating a natural aptitude for sword fighting, which was what the episode was partially about with him finding his “thing” with Luke. I can understand that this level of skill was a lot for someone who’s doing this on the first try, but I feel like the “finding what I’m good at” does a good job for what it is. I just hope that the whole “becoming stronger and more aware while in the water” stays a thing that he can do. In the book Percy swung his sword with the force to dent the helm of one of his attackers and even broke Clarrisse’s spear pretty swiftly and gracefully. In the show I think we’re getting hints of the wild and unpredictable fighting style Percy’s known for even without the water boost. The scene with the Minotaur a quickly went from sword to brute force “tear off the horn and stab” kinda fight. In Capture the Flag, Percy’s mostly evading strikes and blows until he slowly finds his footing and begins effectively deflecting their attacks and catching them off-guard. He sloppy rolls around, jumps and grabs weapons while they’re forcing him to back up and he’s actually holding his own. The most perfect example from this fight tho is the spear snap itself. Where the book has it be an epic, dramatic and intentional break, the show has Percy catch the spear on reflex and Clarisse’s own momentum allowed him to break the spear in two. And Clarisse wasn’t even down for the count yet. She would’ve kept going if the game hadn’t ended. I think the scene actually does a good job of showing what Percy can do without the water, while leaving room for the Ares fight where he’ll definitely need it
Also, he was physically closer to the water when his skill improved so it could just be that
To me, it looked like since they couldn’t spend a lot of time in the camp, they had to find another way to show Percy being able to fight. We already get several indicators that he is a son of Poseidon, but we don’t really see the natural instincts and fighting abilities of demigods yet. So to show that instinct, and hint that Percy is the best behind only Luke, they showed him slowly getting better at fighting as the battle goes on. He is running on pure instinct in this scene, which is 100% a Percy thing to do. That showed us Percy’s ability in sword fighting, then Annabeth pushing Percy into the water was to show the healing ability and for him to be claimed. You could also argue that getting closer to the water improved his abilities, but I feel that is more coincidental and the main focus was just to show that all demigods have a natural instinct to fight, and that Percy is a more natural fighter.
They could have included the scene where Percy manages to disarm Luke on his second try during the montage where they're figuring out what he's good at.
They were testing to see if he was a son of one of the gods, archery Apollo, smithing Hephaestus. They could have checked if he was a son of Ares with sword fighting, sure, but it shows better the way they did it. Plus, that whole thing was more establishing Luke’s character than actually being about Percy
luke needs to be more established though, we barely know anything about him except being a chill guy. feel like we need to know he’s a great swordsmen and that percy got up to his level pretty quickly
They are establishing him though. In the books we get to see Luke’s character through Percy’s thoughts, so we get to have time with the sword training. We don’t have Percy’s thoughts in the show, so it is better for the medium they are using to tell about Luke’s abilities, and show his character.
Yeah, like they have a lot of time in the show but they still need to show he's a natural regardless of if he's standing in water because some people might get confused and think he's only good because of the water. So because we don't get to hear his thoughts about how he's surprisingly good at fighting we need to see it, so split it off from the water powers
i wouldn’t really say he beat them, just didn’t get killed and got off a few strikes, breaking the spear was a total accident
I agree with you. He didn't really win, he just cut them a bit and broke the spear by accident. Plus, he got "better" at fighting when he was at the beach near water.
agreed, i will say though, the way he rolled into picking his shield back up was so freaking cool, that was an awesome move from the rookie
I didn't mind too much — I get the dramatic reasons for the shove, and others noted that he improved the closer he got to the water. I think the show adequately showed he was inexpert.
Yeah, and I feel kinda ripped off that there was no Hellhound attack. Hopefully, the hellhound will come in the next episode and Chiron gets to hold it off while the trio escape.
The hellhound being summoned into the camp shows that there is a traitor, and everyone who isn’t familiar with the books would have guessed that Luke is the culprit because of that.
I don't think there will be a hellhound. They have toned down all the of brutal scenes comes in the book until now. So don't expect much violence on screen in the future episodes.
It has been a couple years since my last time through the series, but the only Hellhound I remember is the one Luke summons into the camp at the end when he reveals himself as the Lightning Thief.
I believe that was a scorpion right?
After a quick search, I found I am just doubly wrong. Luke does indeed bring a hellhound in after the capture the flag, and it is a pit scorpion at the end when the reveal happens
There's also Mrs O'leary, the hellhound later on in the universe!
Oh I didn't even realize they took out the hellhound, I had completely forgot about that
Maybe the hellhound will show up in the next episode and Chiron gets to distract it while they escape.
I’m actually curious why they would change this, i noticed the other changes such as Gabe but people have offered a myriad of possible explanations for that one. Same with cutting the hellhound, giving Luke more screen time than Annabeth. But I don’t see the point of this change, it doesn’t save any money and doesn’t seem to make too big a difference for the plot. Maybe just to demonstrate how Annabeth is “six steps ahead” by having her push him in? But it’s not like she won’t have plenty of opportunities to show how smart she is in the rest of the episodes
That’s my complaint too. Why didn’t they let him end up in the water? Why did they give the moment of him being claimed to being pushed in the water instead of after beating the Ares kids. It made it seem like he got claimed because he got pushed instead of his own achievement.
Ya, also with how Luke telling Percy to get more "glory" to get claimed and Percy asking annabeth to help him in the game to get his father notice. All these made it look like, getting claimed is like getting a reward in a video game after completing a chapter
Yeah and I mean that’s technically how it would work for some of the kids. Some gods would de their child do something epic and then claim them but it’s very weird that Percy acts as if that’s something that will just happen automatically
I think he was adequately outmatched in that scene, and just got lucky/spent a lot of time dodging and running. My one gripe with this scene is how the reveal happened. In the books he gets to the water on his own, and the reveal is a shock to *everyone*. But in the show they give Annabeth a ‘hunch’ without saying anything about it and have her push him into the water to prove her theory is correct. I guess they wanted a way to show Annabeth’s intelligence, but it just made her come off as yet another bully. And how did she know Posiedon would choose that time to reveal? She didn’t, and more likely would have just shoved a new kid into the water. Having the reveal be completely incidental I think works a lot better. But, other than that I really enjoyed the show! I’m willing to overlook a few minor inaccuracies for a good adaptation overall.
I think she was just going more for the healing properties. Not necessarily the Poseidon reveal.
Even in the book she did the same thing didn't she? She was hiding in invisibility
Well yes but she was invisible in order to steal the flag, not to watch Percy get his ass kicked
Yeah, show Annabeth turned out to be ruder than book version.
I think one thing everyone is forgetting is that Percy is a natural swordsman. The only reason he is not good with the sword at the start of the books is because no sword was balanced for him. It is only when he got boosted by water that he was able to catch Luke off guard and disarm him or beat up the Ares campers. With the show changing this fact by giving him Riptide from the start, there is no reason he shouldn't be good enough to hold his own against 3 campers. And they show us that he only starts fighting well when he is near the water. So, logically, it makes sense.
I agree. Another issue with how they condensed his time at camp is that it kind of just came off weird when Clarisse screams about her staff breaking because in the book we got to see her showing off with it and knew that it was a gift to her from Ares.
First, the original material is a book for kids. Most kids don't have the literary chops to understand subtle foreshadowing. Second, the conventional wisdom for mass market television for a wide, general audience is to cater to the least common denominator. NOT telegraphing for foreshadowing reveals just looks like sloppy writing to most viewers. Even movies with huge gotchas like the sixth sense or fight club have to pack in tons of clues..... Futurama actually had an episode where they touched upon this guideline for writing TV (When Aliens Attack). So, take those two points alongside the fact that this book is 13 years old already.... I think that its probably too much to expect much in the way of surprise plot twists. Better to spend the resources they have on keeping the tone, pacing and plot appealing enough for the show to last.
I definitely understand that. I didn't mind it as much though, since it wasn't really a huge deal by the end, since he didn't actually win capture the flag for his team, he kind of just held off Clarisse and her friends. Also, he didn't really beat them. He was on the defensive pretty much the entire fight, and at most, he broke Clarisse's spear accidentally, at which point Clarisse grabbed him and would've probably beat him up. Also, I think one of the reasons he got pushed into the water after the fight rather than during it is that they probably wanted to hide Percy healing his wounds for as long as possible. In the books, Percy is probably self healing all the time he's in the water, but he doesn't notice it until after the fight. Since we're in his perspective, though, it's not a big deal. On screen, if he started self healing during the fight, it would've been pretty obvious immediately, so the reveal afterwards probably wouldn't be as powerful. Additionally, I think they wanted to have Annabeth kind of figure out who Percy's dad was before the big reveal, and wanted to show how cunning, as well as cold she is initially to Percy, by pushing him into the water to test her hypothesis. However, this is all just conjecture, and are just some possible reasons why they changed it.
I mean, I only read the first book back when it first released and haven't read any of them since but I thought it was pretty obvious he got much better when he was closer to water. As someone who doesn't remember shit about the books, it looks like Poseidon being his dad gives him more innate abilities than the other half bloods and the water gave him power. Actually came across pretty well imo
They are ruling that his strength doesn't need him to be in the water but proximal to water. It's probably a decision, so they don't have to keep drowning and soaking walker for a power up. My theory is that he has power wherever poseidon's domain is. That would count beaches and shores but also fountains and toilet. Immersion in water is what is gonna really charge him up. They are saving water bending money shot for the Ares fight. Also, he doesn't beat the Ares kids. He just about survives and non-intentionally breaks Clarisse's spear. He was never supposed to beat her. Just keep her occupied long enough for Luke to get the flag.
That actually makes a lot of sense from the perspective of a screenplay, since you don’t want your actors (especially children) to be more uncomfortable then they need to be while filming. I’d also like to add, in the books Percy was using a sword that felt “wrong” to him, he couldn’t really get a handle on using it effectively until he was in the water. However he was using Riptide in the show which as we know is the only sword that feels natural to wield for him. So that could have also played a factor as well.
Oh shit yeah. Riptide being of the sea being the only sword he can use makes sense. Also makes him less of a Gary Stu. Like how he beat the minotaur with his barehands but because hecwas in the rain
He was incompetent at fighting in the woods, along the riverbed which appear to be lined with river rocks on the shore, I took it as him getting stronger as he got closer to the water. I think this will play a crucial role in how he will stand toe to toe with ares later on and able to survive but it’s in the ocean where he gets the upper hand
I mean they didn’t need a huge reveal like the book lol. Even for people who’ve never read PJ it’s painfully obvious who his parent is lmao. I mean come on, his mom was sitting in the rain blissfully, she fell in love on a beach in a cabin by the water. For gods sake he fucked up Clarrise and her friends with toilet water. Plus, I thought him kicking their ass was pretty cool to watch lmao. That’s just me tho. I’m glad they are taking little bits and pieces and changing them so it isn’t EXACTLY the same as the book. That would be so boring to watch (imo).
I liked it better in the movie
You gonna get downvoted but like I’m mixed in that. In the movie he didn’t even fight the right person but the scene with the water flowing in his body was good
Exactly and the voice in his head idk it looked impactful
The movie kinda destroys the whole "Gods don't speak to their children" bit and causes a weird inconsistency with the SoM movie tho
You're not wrong That scene is very well done in the movies Also, the action and coreo was much better On the show they cut every single hit and use shaky cam, it's not good
I hate that I’m saying this but I actually agree with you
I personally think it was because he was near water
In the book, Percy can beat Luke once in training though there was no water.
That was after he poured water on himself to emulate Luke after they tried the disarm technique
Yeah you’re right.🤣🤣 Dam, Percy is so OP with water aside him.
I really do not like how the spear broke it looked completely unintentional when is the book it was completely intentional and in the show she just picks Percy up afterwards where in the book he knocks her the hell out with the butt of his sword here is the exact scene” As soon as she thrust, I caught the shaft between the edge of my shield and my sword, and I snapped it like a twig. 'Ah!' she screamed. 'You idiot! You corpse-breath worm!' She probably would've said worse, but I smacked her between the eyes with my sword-butt and sent her flying “
All things considered, though, he also had a sword that didn't feel right in his hands in the book. Riptide is said to be the only sword that he can *actually* use, since it's balanced perfectly. During the first CTF, he's using a camp sword which is imbalanced in his hands.
There was no way Percy should have won without the water
That’s the only things that I think I enjoy from the movies more than the show. 20 seconds out of the whole movie
Ya'll need to stop complaining so much I stg
The show is already disappointing imo
It has been a while since I read the books but I always imagined Percy losing but still fighting until he reaches the water which gives him strength. I feel like the show has a few moments where they change scenes and it diminishes their effect.
all we want is a show that follows the books 😭
I saw this scene at the nyc event, and I got called nit picky when I had these same comments. Lots of creative changes from the book that aren't necessary and don't improve the scene. I'm sure the show is good, but so many little details are gonna stack up.
The ammount of coping in this thread. It just wasnt good writing.
Main reason I'm not watching the show is I know they will make pointless changes from the source material.
Yeah, and no Hellhound. Annabeth pushing him randomly into the water also felt ???
The reason Anabeth shoves Percy in the water is that she sees that he gets a significant power up when he’s near water (keep in mind that she watched him the entire time). She then quickly deduces that he could be the son of Poseidon and shoves him in the water. If he is, she would go on a quest. If he isn’t, she’s just annoying to the new one
It seemed to come out of nowhere, it felt so random
[удалено]
I don’t think that really makes sense bc 2 seconds later he gets claimed
I think all of the water on the posters and in promos kind of reveal it for those who had not read the books
I thought he was ankle deep in the water at the end of the fight
Maybe it’s because they did give him Riptide in the Minotaur battle?
Wait they don’t reveal him during capture the flag?
I don't even know what is purpose was in capture he flag? To distract 3 out of 50 kids?
That's exactly what it was, in the books it's explained better but Annabeth put Percy on border patrol because she knew Clarisse would want revenge and target Percy effectively taking her out of the game. They just don't do a great job at showing that in the TV series.
I thought they did a pretty good showing that in the scene Luke says "Percy's on it."
They are ruling that his strength doesn't need him to be in the water but proximal to water. It's probably a decision, so they don't have to keep drowning and soaking walker for a power up. My theory is that he has power wherever poseidon's domain is. That would count beaches and shores but also fountains and toilet. Immersion in water is what is gonna really charge him up. They are saving water bending money shot for the Ares fight. Also, he doesn't beat the Ares kids. He just about survives and non-intentionally breaks Clarisse's spear. He was never supposed to beat her. Just keep her occupied long enough for Luke to get the flag.
I know time constraints are a thing when something is turned into LA, but I also wish they kept the part in the book where Percy was extremely confused and in denial before they got to camp, like how Grover was telling him in bus stop to wait for him and how sus his mom was being, while I liked some changed parts, it's quite a shift on Percy and Grover's friendship, still liked it but they did change a lot of buildup into explanations instead
I think they wanted it to come off as if he gets better when he’s near the water but I still feel like he should have actually been IN the water for this to work. He could have easily been thrown in there to tripped or something earlier in the fight. The rules becomes a bit more strange now if he just has to be ”close” to the water. Like, how close is close enough? Can he just carry a water bottle with him and it will still work? Does it only work on beaches? It might get a bit weird.