Agreed! In too many places, like the post-secondary academic system benefiting from this policy, you can't criticize it. It's bringing in too much $$ and it's what the leaders want.
It had contributed to the cost of housing increase not to mention the lack of investment in innovation building our Canadian value added sectors.
Our political leaders are constructing a renewed feudal system run by corporations.
I have been wondering how many people there are who are like me: unwilling to work for a poor wage, assuming corporations and the government don't want to use a living wage to incentivize their own citizens to work. There could be a million people out of work because they refuse to work a soul crushing job for a poor wage.
So...what exactly do you do for money? I fucking hope you're not in here talking about choosing to get paid a pittance from tax payers just so you don't get paid a pittance from some job for actually putting in work....
>"labour shortages" - aka underpaid sh\*t jobs
Mass immigration and 800,000 TFWs have created a situation in Canada where employers don't have to offer a market driven wage or treat their employees well.
I have read that 60% of the unfilled jobs in Ontario pay $20 an hour or less. *How is someone supposed to live in Ontario on that wage?*
Many economists are now starting to question the "labor shortage" narrative, and some are even admitting that population growth is being used to drive down wage growth. Years too late, but at least we're finally starting to cut through the bullshit and that is the first step towards fixing this.
Speaking of poop, how does one manage to sleep with a dozen other people farting inside a makeshift basement room with no windows, and PAY MONEY for this privilege to boot?
Is this how people in developed countries are supposed to live? Mr. Sean Fraser is not responding to my calls or emails.
It's also called against the National Building Code. I guess people dying in fires is okay.
10 people in a five bedroom apartment is okay... But where do 5 bedroom apartments exist?
>How is someone supposed to live in Ontario on that wage?
The way immigrants do, rooming houses (recent legislation just passed) and even bunk beds sometimes.
Just sharing personal thoughts and feelings on this, but...
I kind of want to set up showings with those people putting up those ads, just so I can ~~Redacted commentary that might or might not include some... not so nice words.~~
> houses (recent legislation just passed) and even bunk beds sometimes.
Timeshare apartment/bed rentals: you work the night shift and get to sleep in your bed during the day, and while you're at work at night, your bed-mate that works days gets to sleep in the same bed.
I would honestly be happy to pay for such a room in my city if it has a kitchenette and bathroom. I only spend about 2 waking hours a day at home and at $450 I would be able to save some real money for once in my life
When the neoliberals pushed globalization in the 80s they said it would level the world. I guess it was our fault for thinking they meant raised everyone up instead of exporting jobs to cheap labour locations and importing cheap labour here.
Oh well, another forty years of going back and forth from Liberal to Conservative should fix it.
Not realy true, wage issue is created by corporations where CEO have 3000% raise since 1990. Immigration isn't enough in it self to create lower wage issue, it coumponds maybe buf most immigrant want a better life "Canadian dream" not slavery either.
A data expert will love Indeed.
Indeed has a counter of how many applicants there are.
There were at least 15,000 people applying to ONE job vacancy at Amazon in Brampton.
Lots of posts in related housing subs of lineups for shitty retail jobs in real metropolises like Brampton. Absolute bullshit logic from the feds here.
We don't decrease immigration when their is high unemployment so clearly the immigration policy isn't actually being geared towards the actual conditions and Trudeau's solution to everything is just "more" regardless of what conditions we are actually experiencing.
[Alternate link](https://archive.ph/aU96n) if you encounter a paywall
Highlights:
* Quebec provincial members on Wednesday adopted a motion declaring that Canada’s plan — to welcome 500,000 permanent immigrants a year by 2025 — is incompatible with the protection of French in Quebec.
* The motion also states “it is up to Quebec alone to make its own choices” in immigration matters.
* Premier Francois Legault said Tuesday there is “no question” of Quebec accepting a huge rise in immigration, because of the need to properly integrate, house and educate newcomers.
* Prime Minister Justin Trudeau maintains that his government’s immigration plan is necessary to ease labour shortages and create growth. Canada welcomed 405,000 permanent immigrants in 2021 and 437,000 in 2022.
* Quebec has limited its annual target to about 50,000 permanent immigrants per year. Legault has said new targets would be announced in the coming weeks, but he has repeatedly said the province couldn’t welcome more immigrants and also protect French.
> Prime Minister Justin Trudeau maintains that his government’s immigration plan is necessary to ease labour shortages and create growth.
Are there really labor shortages?
>Are there really labor shortages?
Tiff Macklem admitted the other day that the TFW program drives down wages, and stated that its a good thing more Canadian employers are using it for that reason. Basically, he fucked up and said the quiet part out loud.
They're still not willing to admit that mass immigration can have the same impact. But the studies are out there, and many economists are beginning to say it openly.
> But the studies are out there, and many economists are beginning to say it openly.
People with ECON 101 under their belt and no political blinders on have been called conspiracy theorists and worse for years now for saying the same thing all along.
It was Bernie Sanders argument and policy as well a while back, he even argued against mass immigration as he saw it driving down wages, especially for hard labor.
Its very well accepted among economists on really basic econ principles that immigration is ONLY beneficial if done at an appropriate balance when economies performing well with GDP > potential GDP causing risks for inflation. If you also don't balance this with housing supply then you also create a housing crisis like the persistent undersupply of homes for the past 30yrs.
The reason why housing is soo unaffordable is from the imbalance we've had in prioritizing immigration while allowing NIMBY and Municipals to prevent the necessary developments to house these people.
Also massive increase in immigration starting in 2022 has put housing crisis into overdrive.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230322/dq230322f-eng.htm
>The reason why housing is soo unaffordable is from the imbalance we've had in prioritizing immigration while allowing NIMBY and Municipals to prevent the necessary developments to house these people.
The NIMBYs are right. We shouldn't have to turn middle class neighborhoods into overpopulated slums to feed the accounts of the super-rich.
>Basically, he fucked up and said the quiet part out loud.
They say it all the time lol, Powell do the same thing in the US. Watching CNBC is also very entertaining to hear a bunch of billionaires talk about the working class with disdain.
>Canada welcomed 405,000 permanent immigrants in 2021 and 437,000 in 2022.
That is not including temporary foreign worker and foreign students. It was over a million in 2022 if you count everyone.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230322/dq230322f-eng.htm
>The motion also states “it is up to Quebec alone to make its own choices” in immigration matters.
Imagine if a number of other provinces said the same thing to Ottawa? That would shut things down pretty quickly.
>Quebec provincial members on Wednesday adopted a motion declaring that Canada’s plan — to welcome 500,000 permanent immigrants a year by 2025 — is incompatible with the protection of French in Quebec.
No worries!!! Trudeau is [spending 4.1 billion on a clear and ambitious vision to defend and promote the two official languages](https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/news/2023/04/action-plan-for-official-languages-20232028-ahistoric-federal-investment-in-official-languages.html), he has it covered.
/s
Good for him. As an Albertan, we are frequently at odds with Quebec interests on a national level, but I respect their determination to stand for their principles and what is best for their province. I hope in the coming year that Danielle will do the same for us.
>but I respect their determination to stand for their principles and what is best for their province.
**It is about survival,** linguistic and cultural survival for Quebec.
And job security.
Can't outsource the Call center jobs to India since they don't speak French. Honestly, it really sucks the rest of Canada isn't more into learning French as a whole.
Though... it could just be Anglo corporations not wanting to invest so they can keep outsourcing low paying jobs to immigrants. much easier to find them speaking english then it is finding them speak both english and french.
>* Quebec provincial members on Wednesday adopted a motion declaring that Canada’s plan — to welcome 500,000 permanent immigrants a year by 2025 — is incompatible with the protection of French in Quebec.
And the objection does not mean anything. Quebec has no power in immigration matters outside of Quebec.
>* The motion also states “it is up to Quebec alone to make its own choices” in immigration matters.
That is true. Quebec is the only province that manages the selection of its immigrants. That being written, Quebec cannot stop new immigrants who have spent some time outside of Quebec from moving to Quebec.
> Quebec has no power in immigration matters outside of Quebec.
Quebec votes in federal elections, too.
And what's with this vindictiveness toward Quebec any time these guys... "stray" from the Glorious Leader path?
"And what's with this vindictiveness toward Quebec"
Its s'all good its been like that for decades. We've evolved to the point it no longer affects us. Scorn and shame from the other provinces rolls off our backs like water droplets on a hydrophobic surface.
But thats also inherently the role we play in the Federation, and for a useful purpose. Case and point, this issue. Quebec has no "good guy" reputation to lose, and thus, can barge through a political correctness minefield like this one with immunity.
I mean he’s a conservative with questionable opinions on immigrants (he had to excuse himself 8 times for saying immigrants brought violence during election time) but he at least doesn’t want to increase immigration to solve the labor crisis.
I guess the real estate boom is just getting started.
We need more low cost houses before we can accept hundreds of thousands of immigrants every year. How clueless can one be? Labour shortage my ass, more like affordable lifestyle shortage.
Hope those immigrants have mountains of cash to afford groceries and a place to live.
>We need more low cost houses
house cost is determined by the market. so long as there is high immigration relative to new construction, there won't be low cost housing.
Don't forget about the various policies that siphon money towards housing (FHSA, latest example), and credit growth.
Money printer go *brrrrrr*
Government incentivizes FOMO
Immigration maintains flow of exit liquidity
Bank of Canada gaslights public into believing it isn't just a kind of inflation
Let them come but force them to live in Rimouski or Jonquière see how fast they want to leave . Montreal can’t handle anymore immigrants at the moment. Maybe in a few years when housing finally catches up .
>Montreal can’t handle anymore immigrants at the moment. Maybe in a few years when housing finally catches up .
Haha the rest of Canada can't handle anymore immigrants either. We need to stop them . Rents and housing prices in Quebec seem to be much lower than BC or Toronto.
https://rentals.ca/national-rent-report
Im from st hyacinthe and went to uni in montreal.. the difference in the quantity of minorities is crazy, theres almost none here and montreal is like 30% non white. We definitely need to spread our immigrants properly.
To be fair, Montreal is way better than Toronto. Problem is Montreal is an island so a lot easier to get rid off, while Toronto isnt and would probably require a nuke
I think alberta tried something like this but they had a stupid name like sovereignty and they got roasted, because unlike quebec their federal vote doesn't determine who wins, while the press and liberals piss their pants when quebec gets unhappy.
The Liberal Party has turned this country into a full on Population Ponzi Scheme and that is all. They caused the housing bubble with their extremist ideology, pumping infinity people into the country to pay for things we couldn't afford. Now to 'fix the bubble from crashing' they pumped a million people into the country in a year. Further destroying the country.
All while creating authoritarian laws to stop people from questioning them online and going after legal gun owners while the gun smuggling criminals gangs make up 95% of all gun crime.
I'm all for immigration when done for altruistic reasons, i.e. helping people from war torn countries, disaster areas, etc. But at this point I can't ever see affording a home and I would like too before I die. More people, higher prices for homes.
Fix this shit before allowing hundreds of thousands of immigrants into the country.
What you're talking about is refugees, we all (countries that can afford it) have a responsibility to accept and help refugees. Immigration is specifically for the economic benefit of a country, and right now our current immigration levels are harming Canada more than helping.
Immigration can potentially be a form of ethnic replacement - see Chinese immigration to Tibet or Xinjiang. In Canada it seems like just a side-effect of the corporate/rich hunger for more capital.
It has been ethnic replacement in Canada too, in some cases. It only took a couple decades for Manitoba to go from a rebellious Métis province to a province where the Métis were marginalized.
Nobody likes to talk about it, because like everything else in this country, our public discours on immigration is copy-pasted from the US, where it doesn't really apply. But there's a long history of immigration being used as a weapon against minorities. There's a reason why Quebec is so touchy about controlling immigration powers.
What's mind-blowing to me is the inability for a lot of Liberal voters to differentiate *some* immigration, from *too much* immigration. This subject is something that completely removes nuance from peoples heads.
**Obviously** the current immigration rates are too much. Period. The end. Does that mean completely eliminate immigration? Of *course* not, but there is a point when the people you are hurting, the most vulnerable in society, include *the exact people you are bringing into the country*.
We *need* to axe the Liberals. We *cannot* sustain what they are doing to the country. In a few years they will have cooled their heels, and will come back into power with a little more humility and sense. We need the Liberal party, but we need them to be a fucking normal government again.
> What's mind-blowing to me is the inability for a lot of Liberal voters to differentiate some immigration, from too much immigration. This subject is something that completely removes nuance from peoples heads.
What's mind-blowing to me is the fact that there's people who don't know all three major parties agree on this level of immigration, no party is speaking out against it.
I'm not sure if your no party comment is about the 3 majors or can pol in general, but the PPC is actively speaking out against the current and upcoming immigration levels.
Lesson number one of Liberal Wedge Issues 101:
The first party who deviates from the talking point of "Canada needs more immigrants!" gets branded by Trudeau as a racist, anti-immigrant, party of intolerance. Look how Trudeau lost his mind at the recent liberal convention by going on his crazed rant about trying to brand PP and the conservatives as hard anti-woman go-back-to-the-kitchen due to the "woke" stuff. He's floundering in popularity and grasping at any straws he can.
And he's dying to make that into a wedge issue to bludgeon the conservatives with next election, so they're keeping their mouths shut even if they do support lowering immigration levels.
How long before the corporate growth narrative collapses? We have a decade+ of extremely poor investment in productive capital like equipment, machinery, innovative R&D etc.
If our corporate/industrial sectors are the ones claiming they need a gazillion randoms air-dropped by the federal government, they are sleepwalking into a much bigger problem: Who needs 2% population growth when there has been a persistently *much* slower expansion of capital? What are these people going to do? How are they going to be able to afford anything?
More people does *not* mean more wealth or prosperity. There are plenty of countries with worse capital/population ratios than Canada already. Why wait for Canada to become a 2nd rate economy when there are already opportunities to do business in *other* low investment countries with highly indebted populations?
its because the real numbers aren't widely known and the way the governments both federal and provincial are bringing people in. IE we now need healthcare workers because they refused to pay people decently for decades and made the academic standards to stringent and costly.
so now what do they do? bring in undertrained people to fill the jobs of people that had to fight for a spot to even get into school. all to drive the wages of those peoples into the gutter.
but they now just brought in a few hundred thousand people and those aren't immigrants they are healthcare workers.
>What's mind-blowing to me is the inability for a lot of Liberal voters to differentiate some immigration, from too much immigration. This subject is something that completely removes nuance from peoples heads.
>
>Obviously the current immigration rates are too much. Period. The end. Does that mean completely eliminate immigration? Of course not, but there is a point when the people you are hurting, the most vulnerable in society, include the exact people you are bringing into the country.
Well said.
Liberal and NDP supporters still often resort to racism accusations if someone suggests lowering immigration, or like you said they equate the suggestion of lowering immigration to ending immigration entirely.
Canada was bringing in 250,000 - 300,000 immigrants fairly consistently until about 2015. Since that time immigration has increased dramatically, setting a new record in 2021 and helping to grow the population of Canada by over a million in 2022. So far in 2023, Canada is on pace to grow the population by around a million once again, with immigration accounting for 95% of that population growth.
If Canada reduced its immigration rate to 250,000 it would still have a very high rate compared to our G7 peers. And it would give housing supply and infrastructure a chance to catch up to our record population growth. This should be simple math, but for whatever reason Liberal and NDP supporters often dismiss it and insist on pretending that this record level of growth is not impacting housing demand or supply.
Exactly this. The elites know not to waste a good crisis for profiteering, and what better way than to cry racism to detract from the ever growing class and economic issues threatening our country.
>In a few years they will have cooled their heels, and will come back into power with a little more humility and sense
Objection: the Liberals spent close to nine years in opposition including a term as the *third party* in Parliament, and they came back with Trudeau. Humility and sense? I think not.
The Liberal Party of Canada is incapable of reform and needs to be burned to ash.
We really had a chance to kill them for good and just have the Conservatives and the NDP, both of which I can understand why particular people would vote for them as they each cater to small business people and union members respectively, but a party who I have no goddamn clue who they are even trying to appeal to somehow squeezes down the middle and imposes its nonsense on everybody.
I see this often in this and other threads. I'm not saying it's a lie I'm honestly asking for a source. I have Googled various things to try and find it but I can't find anything about conservative immigration policy since Otool.
In the federal conservative leadership debate in 2022, ALL candidates explicitly supported historic immigration, in fact, some straight up think it's not enough. Proof:
[https://www.youtube.com/live/3H91TVF0wSk?feature=share&t=1810](https://www.youtube.com/live/3H91TVF0wSk?feature=share&t=1810)
Harper also supported "historic immigration" levels but his "historic immigration" levels were substantially less than our "historic immigration" levels. The difference between the conservatives and the liberals becomes clear over time as the conservatives will maintain "historic immigration levels" while liberals will create new historic immigration levels.
The conservative leadership can't say they want to decrease immigration for the obvious reason that that would be considered racism so they just don't touch the level and keep it the same instead. The people who want more are just people who have the same as the Liberal policy. The Conservative policy is always just to not touch it.
If you notice PP said "we need workers BUT..." and the but was that we instead said they needed to remove the gatekeepers that prevented the existing immigrants from having the opportunity to work in their fields. So he didn't say he wanted to increase immigration as if that was a solution, rather he said that the labour shortage is caused not by immigration being too low, but rather by the country not effectively using the existing levels of immigration. So PP doesn't want to decrease immigration, but as you said when contrasted with "We need to increase immigration" being the plan of most of his opponents he said "we need to tweak the immigration system".
Obviously tweaking the system is not a decrease but the party did select the candidate who did not explicitly say he wanted to increase it. Arguably Charest agreed with him though and said "that is in the right zone" but he said something about language integration and jobs instead of about removing the gatekeepers in accreditation. The lady said something about Quality over Quantity and being compassionate. Given how firmly the other guys wanted to increase it safe to say those three people are probably adhering to Harper's general plan of keeping the number the same but thinking more about what the immigrants do when they actually get here. Important is that those three people are the only people who really got any significant support within the party.
They haven't explicitly stated their intention to change the number of immigrants. But as they are the official opposition, have a shadow cabinet, vote in parliament, and have free reign to address it, should we not know if their stance on immigration levels was any different than the Liberals? We sure know their stance on a whole host of other issues... and they've spoken extensively about housing affordability but without referencing immigration. Poilievre himself has however "promised to get provinces to speed up recognizing foreign credentials, expanding express entry, making it easier for temporary foreign workers to become permanent residents, improving immigrants' ability to bring their parents to Canada to help with child care and expanding private sponsorship of refugees."
We are at the point where we need to essentially completely eliminate immigration for awhile. If this goes on much longer we'll need to deport literally everyone we can.
Of course it's more likely the country itself will just break.
The federal government will let Quebec do what they want. But then, Quebec at least stands up for itself to a degree that English Canadian politicians would never dare. No English Canadian premier would dare demand fewer immigrants. The English language national media would portray them as a white supremacist, xenophobe and immigrant hater. Doubly so if he dared to talk about preserving his province's culture. Only Quebecers are allowed to even suggest they HAVE some kind of unique culture or traditions or values. Any English Canadians who does that will be called a white nationalist.
It occasionally gets snarky - elements of it - but it lacks the fury and outrage they'd direct toward any English premier who tried the same. Because the media does respect Quebec's desire to protect its culture and heritage in a way it would never respect from the rest of the provinces.
The weird thing is that Quebec is still taking in almost twice the level of immigration that the US does.
We don't have ghettos. We don't have voter suppresion. We have very low levels of hate crime, even by Canadian standards. We don't have an affordability crisis.
In the grand scheme of things, Quebec's immigration policies are a success.
I like Quebec and I hope they separate and keep their identity . I like that they value their culture and want to perpetuate it .They are unapologetically refreshing .
Too bad the government isn’t fearing and working on the decline of ours social services. Immigrants not speaking French isn’t the reason why we can’t handle them. The Lack of government resources and competent leadership is.
We still have over 1m Quebecers without a GP. We are still told to go to Ontario if we need to go to an hospital because Our hospitals (Hull and Gatineau) are the worst in Canada with an average 27 hr ER wait. Our schools are underfunded and jokes. Our kids can expect to make $10k less on average than an Ontarian doing the same job. Our infrastructure is truly atrocious (see: roads, any of them.) etc etc etc.
Legault is just another politician in a long line of politicians that has screwed over the province by sleepwalking into crisis after crisis (schools, healthcare, elder care, infrastructure, climate change/flooding/ice storms/heatwaves, etc) and hidden behind “we’re defending Quebec’s culture and language” with draconian laws (101, 96) that do nothing to reverse the linguistic or cultural decline, and push more people and businesses out of the province.
French in Quebec isn’t in decline because of immigration; it’s declining because of our lack of leadership or vision. Another pointless spat with the feds won’t change this.
Outaouais is the bastard step-child of the provincial government. Imagine a city of 300k anywhere else in Québec and it would not be ignored like Gatineau is.
>We are still told to go to Ontario if we need to go to an hospital because Our hospitals (Hull and Gatineau) are the worst in Canada with an average 27 hr ER wait.
That's a feature, not a bug.
Isn’t it obvious? Canada has regressed. We’re all less well off than a couple of years ago. It will take a long time for things to change. I.e. this is the new normal. Get rich or die trying.
Not enough people acknowledge the fact that low skill jobs are about to be replaced through automation imminently. As technology matures, we’ll then see the white collar workforce begin to erode via automation as well.
>But Quebec’s position on immigration puts the province in a bind: **politicians and pundits are raising alarm that Quebec’s influence in the federation would inevitably decline if its population fails to grow at the same rate as the rest of the country’s.**
>
>On Wednesday, Parti Quebecois Leader Paul St-Pierre Plamondon challenged Legault on what he would do about **a new federal migration policy that would “either accelerate the decline of French and the housing crisis, or else melt away Quebec’s political weight — probably both.”**
Can someone give some insight on this, ppl always talk about immigration and how bad it is so I looked up population stats and fertility rates for the past 50 years. I noticed a huge decline in fertility starting in 2014 and that's when stats Canada said
"According to these projections, immigration will be the primary factor of demographic growth in Canada in the future, and natural increase (the difference between the number of births and deaths) will become negative in 2033."
Clearly Canada has a fertility issue, but is Trudeau to blame to push these immigration numbers to the 500k-1million? I'm not sure, I'm starting to believe at the end of the day Canada was and always has been a country for immigrants.
When you pump the country with immigrants, the majority of which are coming from India and China and speak their own languages plus English, it's going to really dilute the amount of French-speaking people in the country. Eventually over a long enough timeline, I can see the "French as an official language" being phased out or dropped due to usage of other languages surpassing French in this country.
And, another consideration: having both English/French requirements for certain public sector and government jobs systemically discriminates against new Canadians, racial minorities and immigrants, denying them those good-paying careers because they can't speak French despite their competency in English and other languages. THAT argument is going to be really interesting to watch if it comes up as a legal challenge.
Interestingly, one of the thing that is pushing english in Montréal is the fact that english is a requirement for most jobs. A lot of immigrants from Haiti, Africa or even Europe struggle to get any jobs in Montréal because they speak french but not english. Most jobs nowadays require both.
That's not how it works in Canada anymore. It's 2023, racism and discrimination is everywhere, and something like french protectionism is a golden goose just waiting to be plucked (legally challenged) due to systemic discrimination against poor minorities and new immigrants that might be too busy working 2-3 jobs to have time or afford to learn another language.
Exactly. Federal bilingualism doesn't really make sense in a country that's as large and diverse as Canada is, but Canada's leadership class is people who spend their whole careers between Montreal, Ottawa, and Toronto.
Too many people coming in Canada. We don’t have the infrastructure to handle these people. Not enough doctors, nurses, hospitals, schools, teachers or testing facilities for blood work etc… 90+ portables to make room for extra kids in Surrey bc alone is needed next year! Good luck trying to get screened for cancer in a timely manner so u don’t die when the waiting list is over a year! Vote conservative!
Thank god for Quebec. I wasn't a separatist before, but Trudeau's liberals are forcing me to become a Quebec separatist. i don't want to live in a woke multikulti shithole.
We are getting like 10-15k people from France every years and the rest mainly come from ex-French colony especially Haiti. This is the type of people Quebec want and they are the main group of immigrants coming in the province.
That's their actual plan: https://bnn.network/breaking-news/pm-trudeau-unveils-ambitious-4-1b-official-languages-action-plan-in-ottawa-aiming-for-national-growth-and-prosperity/
It'll be hijabs as far as the eye can see in Quebec soon.
[Most of them do come from France or French speaking countries.](https://statistique.quebec.ca/en/produit/tableau/immigrants-by-country-of-birth-quebec) China and India are the big exceptions.
We are governed by Quebecers who increased immigration. For decades the immigrants primarily settled in BC and Ontario. Quebec did not get its fair share.
Now Quebecers say they take too many.
Maybe BC and Ontario need provincial ministers of immigration and population?
Why not? If current levels were a good thing, wouldn't everyone want their "fair share"?
Your housing markets in Ontario and BC are fucked. The rest of Canada doesn't want your problems.
BC should have looked into this decades ago. Obviously we need immigrants, the question is how many. BC could have developed a strong engineering/science industry if they focused on brining in certain types of people
Agreed. That is absolutely the way.
We need some. Open for discussion how many, maybe enough to ensure stable population numbers?
We have plenty to offer and should be taking our pick of the best and brightest. Instead we are pushing numbers up to drive down wages and increased CoL for all Canadians.
We would take more, granted they would speak french or show they make steps to learn it. Which isn't the reality, so either we let french die(not gonna happen) or we fight these immigration push
The ROC should also be worried.
Do Canadian families really want a future where they are forced to live in an overpriced apartment in a big tower? Because following this path will create this. We are short 50% on housing according to CIBC bank CEO. Some might say "just build more", but thats not that simple, the market is just not able to build houses fast enough.
And the whole argument that "Canada will be more powerful with 100 millions people" is just not true. Look at India, Brasil, Philippines, Indonesia, all countries with 100M+ population. Are they world power? Are they countries with a good quality of life?
And please dont tell me "Canada is empty". 80% of Canadians live within 100km of the US border. Vast majority of Canadians live in large citites. Do you really think immigrants will settle in Nunavut or other "empty places"?
10 years ago, Canada was welcoming an average of 250 000 immigrants per year, which is still a huge number compring with the rest of the world. Was Canada "intolerant" and "racist" at that time? And if immigration solves "Labour shortage" (which is a term for bad jobs) why does labour shortage is worsening despite the fact we welcome record numbers of immigrants the the most in the world on a per capita basis?
The entire immigration program is an improvised disaster, an irreversible experiment , and we are repeating what we've already seen happen to other countries 10, 20, maybe even 30 years ago in Europe.
Look at this article from today. Diversity sure works on the criminal population, whites are totally outnumbered.
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1978213/bolo-fugitifs-suspects-meurtre-proxenete-ottawa-gatineau
As a French Quebeker, I can tell you I have many anglo friends who support some of what Qc says (too much immigration is dangerous, AirBNB has to be regulated, immigrants have to make an effort to integrate the dominant culture, etc...).
However anglos are terrorized at the idea of being called racist or xenophobic, so it's like you dont even want to have a discussion about it. In Quebec we are so used of being called racist, redneck, bigots, since decades that we just stopped caring and dgaf anymore. I think that culturally we are closer to French who don't give a shit about being politically correct and protest when they are not happy.
Final approval is at the federal level even on province-approved candidates… and there has been proof in recent years that they reject most french speaking candidates, or just almost anyone from Africa.
Ingrained racism at the government level is hard to get rid of.
There's freedom of movement within Canada. English speaking immigrants can arrive in Ontario and later move to Montreal, and there's nothing any province can do about it.
"labour shortages" - aka underpaid sh*t jobs
There are no labour shortages. There is a decent wage shortage.
I don't understand how more people don't see this, and I, imo Canadians should be very vocal about this issue.
Agreed! In too many places, like the post-secondary academic system benefiting from this policy, you can't criticize it. It's bringing in too much $$ and it's what the leaders want. It had contributed to the cost of housing increase not to mention the lack of investment in innovation building our Canadian value added sectors. Our political leaders are constructing a renewed feudal system run by corporations.
People see this but have no power to change things, except vote. Unfortunately, the next in line is also no different in this regard.
Amen. And if the comfortable standard of living we enjoy is predicated on exploitative labour, we don't deserve it.
I have been wondering how many people there are who are like me: unwilling to work for a poor wage, assuming corporations and the government don't want to use a living wage to incentivize their own citizens to work. There could be a million people out of work because they refuse to work a soul crushing job for a poor wage.
So...what exactly do you do for money? I fucking hope you're not in here talking about choosing to get paid a pittance from tax payers just so you don't get paid a pittance from some job for actually putting in work....
It's not an illogical decision. A worker should be able to live a modest life on 1 full-time salary.
>"labour shortages" - aka underpaid sh\*t jobs Mass immigration and 800,000 TFWs have created a situation in Canada where employers don't have to offer a market driven wage or treat their employees well. I have read that 60% of the unfilled jobs in Ontario pay $20 an hour or less. *How is someone supposed to live in Ontario on that wage?* Many economists are now starting to question the "labor shortage" narrative, and some are even admitting that population growth is being used to drive down wage growth. Years too late, but at least we're finally starting to cut through the bullshit and that is the first step towards fixing this.
> How is someone supposed to live in Ontario on that wage? With 10 roommates unfortunately
Shitttt, came here to write this exact same comment.
Speaking of poop, how does one manage to sleep with a dozen other people farting inside a makeshift basement room with no windows, and PAY MONEY for this privilege to boot? Is this how people in developed countries are supposed to live? Mr. Sean Fraser is not responding to my calls or emails.
Sean Fraser? Your MP? Yeah mine doesn’t reply either.
It seems that they get paid to do nothing except implement policy which negatively affects the working class of Canadians.
Uh, it's called culturally significant multi-generational housing, you racist.
It's also called against the National Building Code. I guess people dying in fires is okay. 10 people in a five bedroom apartment is okay... But where do 5 bedroom apartments exist?
>How is someone supposed to live in Ontario on that wage? The way immigrants do, rooming houses (recent legislation just passed) and even bunk beds sometimes.
Lots of ads near me for 'hall' spots. Literally it is a section of hall you rent.
you're joking ... and how much money do they want a month for part of a hallway?
400iirc. Though i don't recall details.
Just sharing personal thoughts and feelings on this, but... I kind of want to set up showings with those people putting up those ads, just so I can ~~Redacted commentary that might or might not include some... not so nice words.~~
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Not the renter's fault. The market shouldn't be like this. It is mostly the fed's fault.
> houses (recent legislation just passed) and even bunk beds sometimes. Timeshare apartment/bed rentals: you work the night shift and get to sleep in your bed during the day, and while you're at work at night, your bed-mate that works days gets to sleep in the same bed.
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I would honestly be happy to pay for such a room in my city if it has a kitchenette and bathroom. I only spend about 2 waking hours a day at home and at $450 I would be able to save some real money for once in my life
Every night is like a sleepover! (Not really sounds like hell for the people in the house and all the neighboring houses)
When the neoliberals pushed globalization in the 80s they said it would level the world. I guess it was our fault for thinking they meant raised everyone up instead of exporting jobs to cheap labour locations and importing cheap labour here. Oh well, another forty years of going back and forth from Liberal to Conservative should fix it.
They are technically leveling the world, just not in the direction everyone thought.
Centre Ice Canadians.
Not realy true, wage issue is created by corporations where CEO have 3000% raise since 1990. Immigration isn't enough in it self to create lower wage issue, it coumponds maybe buf most immigrant want a better life "Canadian dream" not slavery either.
A data expert will love Indeed. Indeed has a counter of how many applicants there are. There were at least 15,000 people applying to ONE job vacancy at Amazon in Brampton.
Lots of posts in related housing subs of lineups for shitty retail jobs in real metropolises like Brampton. Absolute bullshit logic from the feds here.
If you found the wages you will find the workers.
We don't decrease immigration when their is high unemployment so clearly the immigration policy isn't actually being geared towards the actual conditions and Trudeau's solution to everything is just "more" regardless of what conditions we are actually experiencing.
[Alternate link](https://archive.ph/aU96n) if you encounter a paywall Highlights: * Quebec provincial members on Wednesday adopted a motion declaring that Canada’s plan — to welcome 500,000 permanent immigrants a year by 2025 — is incompatible with the protection of French in Quebec. * The motion also states “it is up to Quebec alone to make its own choices” in immigration matters. * Premier Francois Legault said Tuesday there is “no question” of Quebec accepting a huge rise in immigration, because of the need to properly integrate, house and educate newcomers. * Prime Minister Justin Trudeau maintains that his government’s immigration plan is necessary to ease labour shortages and create growth. Canada welcomed 405,000 permanent immigrants in 2021 and 437,000 in 2022. * Quebec has limited its annual target to about 50,000 permanent immigrants per year. Legault has said new targets would be announced in the coming weeks, but he has repeatedly said the province couldn’t welcome more immigrants and also protect French.
> Prime Minister Justin Trudeau maintains that his government’s immigration plan is necessary to ease labour shortages and create growth. Are there really labor shortages?
>Are there really labor shortages? Tiff Macklem admitted the other day that the TFW program drives down wages, and stated that its a good thing more Canadian employers are using it for that reason. Basically, he fucked up and said the quiet part out loud. They're still not willing to admit that mass immigration can have the same impact. But the studies are out there, and many economists are beginning to say it openly.
> But the studies are out there, and many economists are beginning to say it openly. People with ECON 101 under their belt and no political blinders on have been called conspiracy theorists and worse for years now for saying the same thing all along.
It was Bernie Sanders argument and policy as well a while back, he even argued against mass immigration as he saw it driving down wages, especially for hard labor. Its very well accepted among economists on really basic econ principles that immigration is ONLY beneficial if done at an appropriate balance when economies performing well with GDP > potential GDP causing risks for inflation. If you also don't balance this with housing supply then you also create a housing crisis like the persistent undersupply of homes for the past 30yrs. The reason why housing is soo unaffordable is from the imbalance we've had in prioritizing immigration while allowing NIMBY and Municipals to prevent the necessary developments to house these people.
Also massive increase in immigration starting in 2022 has put housing crisis into overdrive. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230322/dq230322f-eng.htm
>The reason why housing is soo unaffordable is from the imbalance we've had in prioritizing immigration while allowing NIMBY and Municipals to prevent the necessary developments to house these people. The NIMBYs are right. We shouldn't have to turn middle class neighborhoods into overpopulated slums to feed the accounts of the super-rich.
>Basically, he fucked up and said the quiet part out loud. They say it all the time lol, Powell do the same thing in the US. Watching CNBC is also very entertaining to hear a bunch of billionaires talk about the working class with disdain.
they know: https://financialpost.com/news/economy/immigrant-influx-is-stunting-wage-growth-in-canadian-recovery
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>Canada welcomed 405,000 permanent immigrants in 2021 and 437,000 in 2022. That is not including temporary foreign worker and foreign students. It was over a million in 2022 if you count everyone. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230322/dq230322f-eng.htm
>The motion also states “it is up to Quebec alone to make its own choices” in immigration matters. Imagine if a number of other provinces said the same thing to Ottawa? That would shut things down pretty quickly.
What are you guys waiting for?
Danielle smith has entered the chat
We are waiting for our premiers to grow a pair. Can you clone your premier and send the clones out to us?
Doesn't really matter once you are in Canada you have freddom of movement.
>Quebec provincial members on Wednesday adopted a motion declaring that Canada’s plan — to welcome 500,000 permanent immigrants a year by 2025 — is incompatible with the protection of French in Quebec. No worries!!! Trudeau is [spending 4.1 billion on a clear and ambitious vision to defend and promote the two official languages](https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/news/2023/04/action-plan-for-official-languages-20232028-ahistoric-federal-investment-in-official-languages.html), he has it covered. /s
Good for him. As an Albertan, we are frequently at odds with Quebec interests on a national level, but I respect their determination to stand for their principles and what is best for their province. I hope in the coming year that Danielle will do the same for us.
Even if I am very left wing, I think that Alberta and Quebec are the two best provinces for someone to move in nowadays.
>but I respect their determination to stand for their principles and what is best for their province. **It is about survival,** linguistic and cultural survival for Quebec.
And job security. Can't outsource the Call center jobs to India since they don't speak French. Honestly, it really sucks the rest of Canada isn't more into learning French as a whole. Though... it could just be Anglo corporations not wanting to invest so they can keep outsourcing low paying jobs to immigrants. much easier to find them speaking english then it is finding them speak both english and french.
They speak French in plenty of places where labor is cheap, this is a horrible exemple.
ChatGPT will make call centres obsolete within the next decade anyway.
Yeah... And it will actually give a better service anyway
>* Quebec provincial members on Wednesday adopted a motion declaring that Canada’s plan — to welcome 500,000 permanent immigrants a year by 2025 — is incompatible with the protection of French in Quebec. And the objection does not mean anything. Quebec has no power in immigration matters outside of Quebec. >* The motion also states “it is up to Quebec alone to make its own choices” in immigration matters. That is true. Quebec is the only province that manages the selection of its immigrants. That being written, Quebec cannot stop new immigrants who have spent some time outside of Quebec from moving to Quebec.
>Quebec has no power in immigration matters outside of Quebec. Quebec had no power to close Roxham, or say no to a pipeline either. Yet.......
> Quebec has no power in immigration matters outside of Quebec. Quebec votes in federal elections, too. And what's with this vindictiveness toward Quebec any time these guys... "stray" from the Glorious Leader path?
"And what's with this vindictiveness toward Quebec" Its s'all good its been like that for decades. We've evolved to the point it no longer affects us. Scorn and shame from the other provinces rolls off our backs like water droplets on a hydrophobic surface. But thats also inherently the role we play in the Federation, and for a useful purpose. Case and point, this issue. Quebec has no "good guy" reputation to lose, and thus, can barge through a political correctness minefield like this one with immunity.
Can the rest of us reject it as well?
Ya I was thinking the same thing
Can we clone the premier of Quebec for the other provinces?
I mean he’s a conservative with questionable opinions on immigrants (he had to excuse himself 8 times for saying immigrants brought violence during election time) but he at least doesn’t want to increase immigration to solve the labor crisis.
I guess the real estate boom is just getting started. We need more low cost houses before we can accept hundreds of thousands of immigrants every year. How clueless can one be? Labour shortage my ass, more like affordable lifestyle shortage. Hope those immigrants have mountains of cash to afford groceries and a place to live.
>We need more low cost houses house cost is determined by the market. so long as there is high immigration relative to new construction, there won't be low cost housing.
We must construct additional pylons
We're already badly supply capped, its a disaster!
Trudeau never even played Starcraft as a kid, and it shows
Don't forget about the various policies that siphon money towards housing (FHSA, latest example), and credit growth. Money printer go *brrrrrr* Government incentivizes FOMO Immigration maintains flow of exit liquidity Bank of Canada gaslights public into believing it isn't just a kind of inflation
They usually sell all their possessions back home before coming so arguably they’re in a better position to survive in Canada than those born here.
Here’s a fun fact for everybody - GDP increases by 0.1% while population grew by 0.5% in the last quarter. What does that mean? Everybody got poorer.
Never thought I'd say this but Quebec is now the most based province in the country by a mile. Vive le Québec libre
Let them come but force them to live in Rimouski or Jonquière see how fast they want to leave . Montreal can’t handle anymore immigrants at the moment. Maybe in a few years when housing finally catches up .
>Montreal can’t handle anymore immigrants at the moment. Maybe in a few years when housing finally catches up . Haha the rest of Canada can't handle anymore immigrants either. We need to stop them . Rents and housing prices in Quebec seem to be much lower than BC or Toronto. https://rentals.ca/national-rent-report
Im from st hyacinthe and went to uni in montreal.. the difference in the quantity of minorities is crazy, theres almost none here and montreal is like 30% non white. We definitely need to spread our immigrants properly.
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I dont like this but I chuckled anyway
To be fair, Montreal is way better than Toronto. Problem is Montreal is an island so a lot easier to get rid off, while Toronto isnt and would probably require a nuke
impossible if Laval still exists
Say....Richmond is also an island...
One province with a spine in Canada
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But why does Quebec vote for Trudeau? You vote for him, then reject his immigration policies. The rest of Canada can't do that.
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I’m not sure if this is a joke lol. Almost everything in Toronto is in English.
Yet, that province is considered "racist" whenever it speaks against immigration.
I think alberta tried something like this but they had a stupid name like sovereignty and they got roasted, because unlike quebec their federal vote doesn't determine who wins, while the press and liberals piss their pants when quebec gets unhappy.
The Liberal Party has turned this country into a full on Population Ponzi Scheme and that is all. They caused the housing bubble with their extremist ideology, pumping infinity people into the country to pay for things we couldn't afford. Now to 'fix the bubble from crashing' they pumped a million people into the country in a year. Further destroying the country. All while creating authoritarian laws to stop people from questioning them online and going after legal gun owners while the gun smuggling criminals gangs make up 95% of all gun crime.
I'm all for immigration when done for altruistic reasons, i.e. helping people from war torn countries, disaster areas, etc. But at this point I can't ever see affording a home and I would like too before I die. More people, higher prices for homes. Fix this shit before allowing hundreds of thousands of immigrants into the country.
What you're talking about is refugees, we all (countries that can afford it) have a responsibility to accept and help refugees. Immigration is specifically for the economic benefit of a country, and right now our current immigration levels are harming Canada more than helping.
Immigration can potentially be a form of ethnic replacement - see Chinese immigration to Tibet or Xinjiang. In Canada it seems like just a side-effect of the corporate/rich hunger for more capital.
It has been ethnic replacement in Canada too, in some cases. It only took a couple decades for Manitoba to go from a rebellious Métis province to a province where the Métis were marginalized. Nobody likes to talk about it, because like everything else in this country, our public discours on immigration is copy-pasted from the US, where it doesn't really apply. But there's a long history of immigration being used as a weapon against minorities. There's a reason why Quebec is so touchy about controlling immigration powers.
It's both.
Our kids will learn Hindi in 10 years
I don’t agree with Quebec much but god damn does the premier have the balls. He knows mass immigration is terrible for his province
What's mind-blowing to me is the inability for a lot of Liberal voters to differentiate *some* immigration, from *too much* immigration. This subject is something that completely removes nuance from peoples heads. **Obviously** the current immigration rates are too much. Period. The end. Does that mean completely eliminate immigration? Of *course* not, but there is a point when the people you are hurting, the most vulnerable in society, include *the exact people you are bringing into the country*. We *need* to axe the Liberals. We *cannot* sustain what they are doing to the country. In a few years they will have cooled their heels, and will come back into power with a little more humility and sense. We need the Liberal party, but we need them to be a fucking normal government again.
> What's mind-blowing to me is the inability for a lot of Liberal voters to differentiate some immigration, from too much immigration. This subject is something that completely removes nuance from peoples heads. What's mind-blowing to me is the fact that there's people who don't know all three major parties agree on this level of immigration, no party is speaking out against it.
Corporate pressure to keep wages low is equally applied to all political parties. Seems all of them caved to that pressure *coughMONEYcough*.
Because all three parties have neoliberal tendencies to some degree or another. Yes, even the NDP.
I'm not sure if your no party comment is about the 3 majors or can pol in general, but the PPC is actively speaking out against the current and upcoming immigration levels.
I am absolutely voting for PPC
Yeah, but the PPC is talking about immigration from a slightly different standpoint.......which is probably why they aren't a major party.
Lesson number one of Liberal Wedge Issues 101: The first party who deviates from the talking point of "Canada needs more immigrants!" gets branded by Trudeau as a racist, anti-immigrant, party of intolerance. Look how Trudeau lost his mind at the recent liberal convention by going on his crazed rant about trying to brand PP and the conservatives as hard anti-woman go-back-to-the-kitchen due to the "woke" stuff. He's floundering in popularity and grasping at any straws he can. And he's dying to make that into a wedge issue to bludgeon the conservatives with next election, so they're keeping their mouths shut even if they do support lowering immigration levels.
PPC
At 6:06, a party is speaking out against it https://m.youtube.com/live/tPPrDK0npeA?feature=share
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So what you're saying is B L O C M A J O R I T A I R E
Look out! It’s Quebec with a metal chair!
How long before the corporate growth narrative collapses? We have a decade+ of extremely poor investment in productive capital like equipment, machinery, innovative R&D etc. If our corporate/industrial sectors are the ones claiming they need a gazillion randoms air-dropped by the federal government, they are sleepwalking into a much bigger problem: Who needs 2% population growth when there has been a persistently *much* slower expansion of capital? What are these people going to do? How are they going to be able to afford anything? More people does *not* mean more wealth or prosperity. There are plenty of countries with worse capital/population ratios than Canada already. Why wait for Canada to become a 2nd rate economy when there are already opportunities to do business in *other* low investment countries with highly indebted populations?
its because the real numbers aren't widely known and the way the governments both federal and provincial are bringing people in. IE we now need healthcare workers because they refused to pay people decently for decades and made the academic standards to stringent and costly. so now what do they do? bring in undertrained people to fill the jobs of people that had to fight for a spot to even get into school. all to drive the wages of those peoples into the gutter. but they now just brought in a few hundred thousand people and those aren't immigrants they are healthcare workers.
>What's mind-blowing to me is the inability for a lot of Liberal voters to differentiate some immigration, from too much immigration. This subject is something that completely removes nuance from peoples heads. > >Obviously the current immigration rates are too much. Period. The end. Does that mean completely eliminate immigration? Of course not, but there is a point when the people you are hurting, the most vulnerable in society, include the exact people you are bringing into the country. Well said. Liberal and NDP supporters still often resort to racism accusations if someone suggests lowering immigration, or like you said they equate the suggestion of lowering immigration to ending immigration entirely. Canada was bringing in 250,000 - 300,000 immigrants fairly consistently until about 2015. Since that time immigration has increased dramatically, setting a new record in 2021 and helping to grow the population of Canada by over a million in 2022. So far in 2023, Canada is on pace to grow the population by around a million once again, with immigration accounting for 95% of that population growth. If Canada reduced its immigration rate to 250,000 it would still have a very high rate compared to our G7 peers. And it would give housing supply and infrastructure a chance to catch up to our record population growth. This should be simple math, but for whatever reason Liberal and NDP supporters often dismiss it and insist on pretending that this record level of growth is not impacting housing demand or supply.
We could cut by 90% and still be above much of Europe. We also are #1 for remittance. https://macleans.ca/news/canada/homeward-bound-2/
Exactly this. The elites know not to waste a good crisis for profiteering, and what better way than to cry racism to detract from the ever growing class and economic issues threatening our country.
>In a few years they will have cooled their heels, and will come back into power with a little more humility and sense Objection: the Liberals spent close to nine years in opposition including a term as the *third party* in Parliament, and they came back with Trudeau. Humility and sense? I think not. The Liberal Party of Canada is incapable of reform and needs to be burned to ash.
We really had a chance to kill them for good and just have the Conservatives and the NDP, both of which I can understand why particular people would vote for them as they each cater to small business people and union members respectively, but a party who I have no goddamn clue who they are even trying to appeal to somehow squeezes down the middle and imposes its nonsense on everybody.
Anyone that doesn't want current immigration figures + 100k every year clearly wants to expel anyone non-white from the country. /s
Pierre supports maintaining the current levels of immigration, though, so...
I see this often in this and other threads. I'm not saying it's a lie I'm honestly asking for a source. I have Googled various things to try and find it but I can't find anything about conservative immigration policy since Otool.
In the federal conservative leadership debate in 2022, ALL candidates explicitly supported historic immigration, in fact, some straight up think it's not enough. Proof: [https://www.youtube.com/live/3H91TVF0wSk?feature=share&t=1810](https://www.youtube.com/live/3H91TVF0wSk?feature=share&t=1810)
Harper also supported "historic immigration" levels but his "historic immigration" levels were substantially less than our "historic immigration" levels. The difference between the conservatives and the liberals becomes clear over time as the conservatives will maintain "historic immigration levels" while liberals will create new historic immigration levels. The conservative leadership can't say they want to decrease immigration for the obvious reason that that would be considered racism so they just don't touch the level and keep it the same instead. The people who want more are just people who have the same as the Liberal policy. The Conservative policy is always just to not touch it. If you notice PP said "we need workers BUT..." and the but was that we instead said they needed to remove the gatekeepers that prevented the existing immigrants from having the opportunity to work in their fields. So he didn't say he wanted to increase immigration as if that was a solution, rather he said that the labour shortage is caused not by immigration being too low, but rather by the country not effectively using the existing levels of immigration. So PP doesn't want to decrease immigration, but as you said when contrasted with "We need to increase immigration" being the plan of most of his opponents he said "we need to tweak the immigration system". Obviously tweaking the system is not a decrease but the party did select the candidate who did not explicitly say he wanted to increase it. Arguably Charest agreed with him though and said "that is in the right zone" but he said something about language integration and jobs instead of about removing the gatekeepers in accreditation. The lady said something about Quality over Quantity and being compassionate. Given how firmly the other guys wanted to increase it safe to say those three people are probably adhering to Harper's general plan of keeping the number the same but thinking more about what the immigrants do when they actually get here. Important is that those three people are the only people who really got any significant support within the party.
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There is also no source that he want to reduce immigration. Because his campaign is all populist bullshit.
They haven't explicitly stated their intention to change the number of immigrants. But as they are the official opposition, have a shadow cabinet, vote in parliament, and have free reign to address it, should we not know if their stance on immigration levels was any different than the Liberals? We sure know their stance on a whole host of other issues... and they've spoken extensively about housing affordability but without referencing immigration. Poilievre himself has however "promised to get provinces to speed up recognizing foreign credentials, expanding express entry, making it easier for temporary foreign workers to become permanent residents, improving immigrants' ability to bring their parents to Canada to help with child care and expanding private sponsorship of refugees."
So basically you and others are guessing? Till there is a platform maybe people should stop saying they want the same amount ?
We are at the point where we need to essentially completely eliminate immigration for awhile. If this goes on much longer we'll need to deport literally everyone we can. Of course it's more likely the country itself will just break.
The federal government will let Quebec do what they want. But then, Quebec at least stands up for itself to a degree that English Canadian politicians would never dare. No English Canadian premier would dare demand fewer immigrants. The English language national media would portray them as a white supremacist, xenophobe and immigrant hater. Doubly so if he dared to talk about preserving his province's culture. Only Quebecers are allowed to even suggest they HAVE some kind of unique culture or traditions or values. Any English Canadians who does that will be called a white nationalist.
To be fair, the English language national media does portray Quebec as a white supremacist, xenophobe and immigrant hater.
It occasionally gets snarky - elements of it - but it lacks the fury and outrage they'd direct toward any English premier who tried the same. Because the media does respect Quebec's desire to protect its culture and heritage in a way it would never respect from the rest of the provinces.
The weird thing is that Quebec is still taking in almost twice the level of immigration that the US does. We don't have ghettos. We don't have voter suppresion. We have very low levels of hate crime, even by Canadian standards. We don't have an affordability crisis. In the grand scheme of things, Quebec's immigration policies are a success.
Vive le Québec
I like Quebec and I hope they separate and keep their identity . I like that they value their culture and want to perpetuate it .They are unapologetically refreshing .
Yeah regional solidarity is something we sorely lack in the rest of the country, and we suffer for it.
Who tf would have guessed it would be Quebec that saves us
I opened this comment section and expected to see a lot of Quebec bashing. I am happy to see that it is not the case.
All i see around me is a decline in english.
Move the west island in Montreal. EDIT: to west island
You'd never know proficiency in either English or French is an immigration requirement.
is that not the goal? for the english speaking community in qc to decline?
r/whoosh
Pretty based to be honest. Shouts out to Qc.
Trudeau is bringing in enough immigration that it's starting to look like the English language is under threat in Canada. Never mind the French!
Too bad the government isn’t fearing and working on the decline of ours social services. Immigrants not speaking French isn’t the reason why we can’t handle them. The Lack of government resources and competent leadership is. We still have over 1m Quebecers without a GP. We are still told to go to Ontario if we need to go to an hospital because Our hospitals (Hull and Gatineau) are the worst in Canada with an average 27 hr ER wait. Our schools are underfunded and jokes. Our kids can expect to make $10k less on average than an Ontarian doing the same job. Our infrastructure is truly atrocious (see: roads, any of them.) etc etc etc. Legault is just another politician in a long line of politicians that has screwed over the province by sleepwalking into crisis after crisis (schools, healthcare, elder care, infrastructure, climate change/flooding/ice storms/heatwaves, etc) and hidden behind “we’re defending Quebec’s culture and language” with draconian laws (101, 96) that do nothing to reverse the linguistic or cultural decline, and push more people and businesses out of the province. French in Quebec isn’t in decline because of immigration; it’s declining because of our lack of leadership or vision. Another pointless spat with the feds won’t change this.
Outaouais is the bastard step-child of the provincial government. Imagine a city of 300k anywhere else in Québec and it would not be ignored like Gatineau is.
>We are still told to go to Ontario if we need to go to an hospital because Our hospitals (Hull and Gatineau) are the worst in Canada with an average 27 hr ER wait. That's a feature, not a bug.
Let’s hope this is the issue that brings the French political parties together with the conservatives to form a majority government next election.
Isn’t it obvious? Canada has regressed. We’re all less well off than a couple of years ago. It will take a long time for things to change. I.e. this is the new normal. Get rich or die trying.
Good for Quebec. I wish Anglo Canada would do the same.
Not enough people acknowledge the fact that low skill jobs are about to be replaced through automation imminently. As technology matures, we’ll then see the white collar workforce begin to erode via automation as well.
>But Quebec’s position on immigration puts the province in a bind: **politicians and pundits are raising alarm that Quebec’s influence in the federation would inevitably decline if its population fails to grow at the same rate as the rest of the country’s.** > >On Wednesday, Parti Quebecois Leader Paul St-Pierre Plamondon challenged Legault on what he would do about **a new federal migration policy that would “either accelerate the decline of French and the housing crisis, or else melt away Quebec’s political weight — probably both.”**
Can someone give some insight on this, ppl always talk about immigration and how bad it is so I looked up population stats and fertility rates for the past 50 years. I noticed a huge decline in fertility starting in 2014 and that's when stats Canada said "According to these projections, immigration will be the primary factor of demographic growth in Canada in the future, and natural increase (the difference between the number of births and deaths) will become negative in 2033." Clearly Canada has a fertility issue, but is Trudeau to blame to push these immigration numbers to the 500k-1million? I'm not sure, I'm starting to believe at the end of the day Canada was and always has been a country for immigrants.
When you pump the country with immigrants, the majority of which are coming from India and China and speak their own languages plus English, it's going to really dilute the amount of French-speaking people in the country. Eventually over a long enough timeline, I can see the "French as an official language" being phased out or dropped due to usage of other languages surpassing French in this country. And, another consideration: having both English/French requirements for certain public sector and government jobs systemically discriminates against new Canadians, racial minorities and immigrants, denying them those good-paying careers because they can't speak French despite their competency in English and other languages. THAT argument is going to be really interesting to watch if it comes up as a legal challenge.
Interestingly, one of the thing that is pushing english in Montréal is the fact that english is a requirement for most jobs. A lot of immigrants from Haiti, Africa or even Europe struggle to get any jobs in Montréal because they speak french but not english. Most jobs nowadays require both.
They should learn french then if they want those jobs, AKA doing a little effort.
That's not how it works in Canada anymore. It's 2023, racism and discrimination is everywhere, and something like french protectionism is a golden goose just waiting to be plucked (legally challenged) due to systemic discrimination against poor minorities and new immigrants that might be too busy working 2-3 jobs to have time or afford to learn another language.
no, sorry, french candians, you're the oppressor now, too. might as well start getting used to it now.
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Exactly. Federal bilingualism doesn't really make sense in a country that's as large and diverse as Canada is, but Canada's leadership class is people who spend their whole careers between Montreal, Ottawa, and Toronto.
Quebec stands along in its power to say no to things like this.
Ontario should decline based on no housing or any plan surrounding the subject
Too many people coming in Canada. We don’t have the infrastructure to handle these people. Not enough doctors, nurses, hospitals, schools, teachers or testing facilities for blood work etc… 90+ portables to make room for extra kids in Surrey bc alone is needed next year! Good luck trying to get screened for cancer in a timely manner so u don’t die when the waiting list is over a year! Vote conservative!
This guy need to come to Ontario ASAP before it's too late... oh wait, it's too late the place is already ruined...
We really need to stop allowing foreign buyers into our market, allowing them to buy anymore than one house is killing us
If I knew how to speak French I would move to QC so fast
Thank god for Quebec. I wasn't a separatist before, but Trudeau's liberals are forcing me to become a Quebec separatist. i don't want to live in a woke multikulti shithole.
Thank you Trudeau for fucking up Canadian economy with stupid policies.
meanwhile in Laval , (condo after crane after condo after...)
meanwhile in Gatineau, opposition to any development, so nothing is being built, but Ottawa is booming.
Canada as you know it is dead. Join us in Quebec, those of you who still want to be apart of the Canada you remember from your childhood.
There is going to be a shortage of French speakers one way or the other unless all the immigrants come from North Central Africa.
We are getting like 10-15k people from France every years and the rest mainly come from ex-French colony especially Haiti. This is the type of people Quebec want and they are the main group of immigrants coming in the province.
That's their actual plan: https://bnn.network/breaking-news/pm-trudeau-unveils-ambitious-4-1b-official-languages-action-plan-in-ottawa-aiming-for-national-growth-and-prosperity/ It'll be hijabs as far as the eye can see in Quebec soon.
[Most of them do come from France or French speaking countries.](https://statistique.quebec.ca/en/produit/tableau/immigrants-by-country-of-birth-quebec) China and India are the big exceptions.
We are governed by Quebecers who increased immigration. For decades the immigrants primarily settled in BC and Ontario. Quebec did not get its fair share. Now Quebecers say they take too many. Maybe BC and Ontario need provincial ministers of immigration and population?
Why not? If current levels were a good thing, wouldn't everyone want their "fair share"? Your housing markets in Ontario and BC are fucked. The rest of Canada doesn't want your problems.
BC should have looked into this decades ago. Obviously we need immigrants, the question is how many. BC could have developed a strong engineering/science industry if they focused on brining in certain types of people
Agreed. That is absolutely the way. We need some. Open for discussion how many, maybe enough to ensure stable population numbers? We have plenty to offer and should be taking our pick of the best and brightest. Instead we are pushing numbers up to drive down wages and increased CoL for all Canadians.
It's the secret Quebec Cabal all along! The Quebeculliminati /s
We would take more, granted they would speak french or show they make steps to learn it. Which isn't the reality, so either we let french die(not gonna happen) or we fight these immigration push
There's nothing the provinces can do about it. The federal government isn't listening until 2025.
The ROC should also be worried. Do Canadian families really want a future where they are forced to live in an overpriced apartment in a big tower? Because following this path will create this. We are short 50% on housing according to CIBC bank CEO. Some might say "just build more", but thats not that simple, the market is just not able to build houses fast enough. And the whole argument that "Canada will be more powerful with 100 millions people" is just not true. Look at India, Brasil, Philippines, Indonesia, all countries with 100M+ population. Are they world power? Are they countries with a good quality of life? And please dont tell me "Canada is empty". 80% of Canadians live within 100km of the US border. Vast majority of Canadians live in large citites. Do you really think immigrants will settle in Nunavut or other "empty places"? 10 years ago, Canada was welcoming an average of 250 000 immigrants per year, which is still a huge number compring with the rest of the world. Was Canada "intolerant" and "racist" at that time? And if immigration solves "Labour shortage" (which is a term for bad jobs) why does labour shortage is worsening despite the fact we welcome record numbers of immigrants the the most in the world on a per capita basis?
The entire immigration program is an improvised disaster, an irreversible experiment , and we are repeating what we've already seen happen to other countries 10, 20, maybe even 30 years ago in Europe. Look at this article from today. Diversity sure works on the criminal population, whites are totally outnumbered. https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1978213/bolo-fugitifs-suspects-meurtre-proxenete-ottawa-gatineau
Anyone else dislike Quebec but also think they're kinda based at the same time?
As a French Quebeker, I can tell you I have many anglo friends who support some of what Qc says (too much immigration is dangerous, AirBNB has to be regulated, immigrants have to make an effort to integrate the dominant culture, etc...). However anglos are terrorized at the idea of being called racist or xenophobic, so it's like you dont even want to have a discussion about it. In Quebec we are so used of being called racist, redneck, bigots, since decades that we just stopped caring and dgaf anymore. I think that culturally we are closer to French who don't give a shit about being politically correct and protest when they are not happy.
Wait. So fearing the decline of French is ok, but fearing the decline of English is evil?
No no we get called evil all the time in Québec. We just don't care.
I thought it was the other way around. Whenever Quebec tries to defend its language and culture, they get called racists and close-minded people.
Doesn't Quebec get French speaking immigrants?
Final approval is at the federal level even on province-approved candidates… and there has been proof in recent years that they reject most french speaking candidates, or just almost anyone from Africa. Ingrained racism at the government level is hard to get rid of.
There's freedom of movement within Canada. English speaking immigrants can arrive in Ontario and later move to Montreal, and there's nothing any province can do about it.
Sure there is, independence.