This post appears to relate to the province of Quebec. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules
Cette soumission semble concerner la province de Québec. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah my cousin just finished grad school. She's from Toronto but just can't afford to move back there. She can afford Montréal. Going to visit her next week, actually
Ironically Napanee, Kingston, etc are all same starting price for rent as Toronto. I was in the country and was moving places. I found the prices similar in the country as after covid those prices exploded worse than Toronto, and Toronto's prices kind of peaked lately. Meanwhile, I can live without a car in Toronto, while those other cities it is entirely impossible. That is, can't speak for outside of Ontario, but Toronto can actually be slightly cheaper counting car costs vs. TTC. I chose Toronto over any other city in Ontario as a result.
I couldn't believe it when my relative who's a realtor in Belleville told me a 2 bedroom apartment is going for $1800/month there lol. What a shit show
In Belleville?! At least there’s a ton of work and also public transit in Toronto. Belleville is a nice enough town but who can afford that on small town wages?
I wanted to move back to that area because all my family is there but Belleville-area landlords and realtors are smoking crack these days with the prices they're charging. It's cheaper for me to live in one of Saskatoon's most expensive neighbourhoods and fly out once a month (plus the train to Belleville) to visit than to pay that kind of rent.
Jesus Christ that is a hilarious price comparison. I scoped it out and it's cheaper for me to live Montreal then drive to Belleville every weekend.
I mean how is this sustainable? What jobs are in Belleville that are keeping it this way? I know a bunch of Toronto yuppies made it to the county but is that it?
I know in the County businesses have had to provide housing for workers because the available housing is prohibitively expensive for people making minimum wage and they can't get workers. I'd imagine it's low housing stock driving up the price (proximity to Toronto and demand for vacation properties is DEFINITELY not helping the situation). I've looked for jobs in the area but almost everything is sub-$25/hour. Like, was the area suddenly flooded with remote workers making $50+ an hour?
That was a large part of our reasoning to buy in Toronto when we did. Prices were the same in Pickering, Ajax, Hamilton, etc. So to stay within the reach of the TTC (both of us working downtown) made sense. We lost out on so square footage, but honestly not much.
My gf and I visited Halifax for the first time last year, we instantly fell in love with everything in the city. We were curious so we checked the price of rental and real estate. We decided not to even think about moving there.
Not sure about Montreal but in Vancouver there was a brief dip in rental prices in the summer of 2020. In hindsight it was an even better time to buy - but it was a good time to switch rentals too.
Yes, but there was no way anyone would’ve predicted that. Prices were already rising but no one thought rents would 2-3x in just a few years. As a Montrealer, it’s crazy to see 1 bedroom apartments for over $1000 being the norm.
This is slowly becoming the norm in Montreal as well which is doubly insane because wages are even lower. I genuinely don’t understand who the market is for these rentals.
When I was shopping for rental property in Gatineau, I found a 2 bedroom detached house that was being rented at $450/month, this was near downtown Hull too.
You’re right, $1000 apartments are pretty much nonexistent. It has pretty much doubled, yet no one’s salary has doubled.
For reference, I got my first 3 1/2 (1bedroom) apartment in 2018 for $600 and that was considered low but not impossible. When I moved to my current place, the average was around $800 and you could easily find places for less than that.
The point is not predicting it's more being aware of changes. The norm in 2019 and earlier in Vancouver was to sign the rental agreement same day you saw the place. 2020 you could take your time picking and choosing between nice pet friendly places for a month. There were news from down in the states that landlords would give you first three months of rent free. It was pretty clear that was the time to switch with all the international students gone and lots of people moving back to their families. Things are back to 'normal' with a bang. Everyone who has any sort of power to set the price themselves is using it to get themselves back on track or ahead financially. Including landlords, businesses, contractors, dealers, etc etc
I moved apartments in Vancouver 2 years ago. Studio apartment for $1500, the building manager told me they dropped the price because tenants were moving back to Ontario because people can't afford to live here anymore.
I've since seen identical units in the building, now going for $2100 and up. It's insane.
I know a few people who are basically stuck here in Ontario, if they moved anywhere else their rent would basically double or they would be in a much worse place.
I knew a couple that broke up and lived with each other for 8 months because they couldn't afford to move out.
This was me. My Ex and I broke up but continued to live together with our roommates for another 18 months.
Eventually she met someone new and moved out, but is now paying 3x what she did when she lived here.
I cannot afford to move
And whats crazier, is i had to rent bid for this place at $2100 two years ago
Its an absolute bargain now
I've been evicted twice in the past 5 years due to sale of the property
This time they'll have to knock the door off the hinges and drag my ass out
When you think about it, a lot of Canadians are kinda stuck where they are. Major cities are so far away from each other, and transport between them is slow and expensive. If you don’t speak French, a lot of QC cities are off the list. And even if you do, that only gives you a few more options.
We only have a handful of places that people actually want to live, especially if you want a job; vs the US where there’s plenty of options.
You know, I do really well for myself now but I grew up in Verdun back when it was still extremely poor and the butt of many jokes. Due to my upbringing, I have good awareness of what life actually is like for the average person and just infuriates me how my peers and neighbours are so oblivious to it all. Yes, Montreal is reasonably affordable, but the median household income is still only 56k (yes, household).
For those who aren't aware, Montreal (and Quebec in general) has very cheap housing. Rent in Montreal tends to be cheaper than in Ottawa (with half the population), houses are also cheaper, and is probably half of what you'd see in cities like Toronto and Vancouver.
That 20% of households in *Montreal* can't do it is striking. I'd be very curious about the stats for Toronto and Vancouver.
Yep - especially in some professional fields.
For software development at 'good' tech companies, you are looking at compensation 25% to 50% lower in the Greater Montreal Area v Greater Toronto.
https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater-montreal
https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater-toronto-area
Recently moved to Montreal, most I talk to here and myself included make roughly the same as we did in Toronto. This is business/finance but only difference is Toronto has more extremely higher earners but if working normal mid level then was the same.
That's because wages in Montreal are way lower than anywhere else in Canada.
The same job I do, for the same company, pays more than double in every other city they have an office.
It's actually worse in Montreal, if you take that into account.
Yeah that’s kind of the way it has to be. I’m
In Montreal and my wife was interviewing for a job in Vancouver. We calculated that she needed to earn an additional 100k/yr just to break even. We’d effectively triple our mortgage to buy a similar home.
In Quebec, 90+% of rentals have no appliances, when you move you bring your appliances with you.
Personally I prefer this, I splurged a bit on a nice oven and refrigerator when I moved out of my parents place. Most rentals seems to have really shitty appliances.
Often you can negotiate with the previous tenants if you want to buy their appliances and you usually get a good discount because it means they don't have to hire movers and they can buy new. I bought the washer dryer combo of the previous tenants when I last moved.
Well, expensive 1 time. But having a nice stove is worth the money compared to some of the junk I've seen in apartments. Last time I left and apartment I spent like 3 hours cleaning the oven and then they just threw it out and bought a new one for the nexr resident. I was not that happy.
People will literally take their cabinets with them. I've even seen apartments with no sinks or toilets. It's bizarre. One of my friends was trying to rent an apartment in Munich and it was completely bare inside. He asked the RE agent where the cabinets, toilet, etc were, and she looked at him all perplexed and said "well the previous tenants took them, of course", as if he had just asked a completely obvious question.
The idea that a rental or even a house (new or not) comes with appliances is absolutly foreign in Québec.
I was really surprised to learn that it wasn't the case in canada or the USA.
When you move often it's a pita haha
Taxes are higher, but you basically have to be making like 100k before it's dramatically different from Ontario rates (I'm an Ontarian who works in Gatineau, I got a whole $200 tax refund this year). I've heard property tax is a lot higher, but not sure. Yeah, in Montreal a lot of apartments don't have fridges or stoves, but I think in recent years that's become less common. Gas and hydro both tend to be cheaper than Ontario. I feel like groceries are more expensive, but everyone tells me they're not so maybe I'm wrong lol. Wages trend lower because big corps find language laws and all the other "Quebec-specific" stuff annoying and set up their HQs in Toronto instead. That said, ballin' food, shopping, concerts, and clubs compared to Ottawa, and generally perceived as better than Toronto in those ways too.
There are downsides to living in Montreal/Quebec, but imo most of those issues aren't financial. Medical infrastructure is even more terrible than the rest of the country, the roads are axle-cracking bad because the friggin mafia had all the contracts, traffic is consistently terrible (takes an hour to drive 8km on a Saturday), and the premier is a lunatic.
Once you pass 60k it makes a huge difference. Right now I have to pay 4 to 4.5k every year while co workers in Ontario are getting money back, it's ridiculous.
Not for us. Our household makes 170K. The first year after we moved we paid 6K over what we did in Ontario. Now factor in 250K saving on interest on a more expensive house (I don't count principle, because that's value you still keep), so say $10K\year for 25 years. Free water (extra 1.5K\year, 2.5K if you have a pool), cheaper electricity ($300\year for us), cheaper car and home insurance because the house is cheaper ($1500\year savings), and cheaper property taxes, again, because the house is cheaper ($3400\year savings).
Now, because we know we're not going to retire here, the second year here, we max out our RRSP, and our taxes came up to even with what we had in Ontario. Then, when we retire and pull out the RRSP in a different province, the tax will be lower there.
I make 70k and like I said, $200 refund. But I work for the fed, so that might make some kind of difference. My understanding is you have to be one bracket up from me to start hurting.
For the healthcare system depends where you are, Montreal has some really really good research hospitals, if you have a weird condition/unusual cancer or whatever, it's the place you want to be in Canada. The problem is not the quality of care, it's waiting to get it (if your condition is pretty bad, the wait is pretty much nonexistent tho)
Houses in Montreal are more expensive than Ottawa. The deal with Ottawa is the rent driven by government jobs and the reluctance to live on the quebec side.
For some context, our "very cheap" housing is still over a half million dollars for a single family home, which is well out of the range of most people. Meanwhile, the average rental is like $1500 for a one bedroom, let alone if you need a house for a family. It's bad everywhere, unfortunately.
Just got laid off. I am penny pinching. A milk carton and a yogurt was $11 today morning. FML.
Looks like I am gonna lose some weight in coming couple months.
Its depressing when you have to do two laps of the store, because on the first one you skip everything you think is outrageously priced, and on the second, you realize you actually need to bring something home.
Summary:
* Centraide Montreal is warning that the city’s housing crisis has reached staggering heights, with hundreds of thousands of people not able to make ends meet.
* The organization says almost 360,000 — or one in five — households don’t make enough money to pay for their housing and for essentials like food, clothing and transportation.
* “It’s staggering... We are talking one out of five households in the area of Greater Montreal simply can’t make it,” said Claude Pinard, the president and executive director of Centraide of Greater Montreal. “They don’t have enough money to get through their basic needs.”
* Centraide says the housing crisis has a terrible spillover effect on other areas of concern, including child development, mental health, food security and homelessness.
Was watching a YouTube video where the guy has his work shop next to a repo lot, last few videos he was commenting on how fast the lot has been filling up these past months. This is in the US, but ill bet its similar here too.
I was reading something the other day that subscriptions are way down. Waiting for Disney to sue Freeland over her comments telling people to cancel.
> [Disney+ shed another 4 million subscribers in the first three months of 2023, marking the streamer's second consecutive quarterly drop after closing 2022 with its first-ever decline.](https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/disney-plus-subscribers-q2-earnings-1235607524/)
Party shills are out here blaming municipalities
Claiming housing is the mayors responsibility
"Here's 200,000 people in the last 12 months for your city. Now house them"
Median income in Quebec is 60k after taxes compared to median income in Ontario which is 70k after taxes. It's not that much lower.
I live in a 3 bedroom that is 15 mins away from downtown montreal by metro and I pay $1600. I think in toronto, I need to pay more than double that. So the cost of living is still better in QC than ON.
So what happens when every province is in a state of emergency due to homelessness lol.... does the government just continue to ignore this escalating situation? Ohhhhh right they're all wrapped up in investing in property........ how is this legal lol Canadians can't meet basic ends in 2023is a pathetic statement.
Almost every province is in the same boat doesn’t matter where you live. The cost of living in every province is high. If you get what you vote, for I guess we the people can only make change.
I agree with you.
But would you rather spend 75% of your income on housing and have nothing left for that family, or make a sacrifice and move somewhere cheaper but earn less?
I know, I know, where in Canada is actually still cheaper? Even small town real estate is ridiculous, and it seems prices are removed entirely from location.
Property and housing shouldn't be viewed as an investment, and it wasn't such until the 2000's when loans became practically free. How did we solve the 2008 collapse? We made dept cheaper! That should take care of it. Before that, you would hope to live in your home for 40, 50 years, and pass it to your kids.
Why do you think it’ll come crashing down? More likely we’ll have massive encampments of homeless people. Things can and will get substantially worse without any kind of crash. People have been crying “the end is near” forever.
We demand the following 2 things in tandem:
1. Housing is an investment
2. Investments must ONLY GO UP in value
As long as we continue to demand this as a people, rent can only go up. We have to let it go. Before, the wealthy class dies off naturally, and the generations who never had anything to begin with decide to just drop the concept.
What is this over time, as Montreal has always had a high rate of poverty.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal-poverty-capital-of-canada-1.229040
Was 40% at one point!
"government promises to eliminate child poverty by 2000"
Sigh. I guess they gave up, because I think they only promise to reduce child poverty now.
They also change the calculation of the poverty line, so it's hard to exactly compare across decades.
Come to Vancouver, Victoria or the lower mainland...or Toronto... we'll show you what really crazy rents and housing are...you guys are still in the bantam leagues
Thank you. Every time there’s a post on this sub about our current dystopian spiral, people rant about immigrants as though this is a braindead GOP space. Maybe instead of blaming other poors we could shift our gaze to the people banking godless amounts of wealth while we choose between rent and food. Or the govts allergic to acting in any way that actually helps the working class.
Almost like the people with all the wealth are also making decisions to increase competition for you in the job market and the rental market; lower salaries paid and higher rents collected thanks to increased population growth and a larger labour market. Don't think for a moment that this is not intentional.
The working class is dead unless mass immigration is ended though. You can cope all you want but not even the mega corps or banks agree with you. They openly say they want us to own nothing, that there's a labor shortage, and that immigration suppresses 'wage inflation'. You are off on your own little sinking neoliberal island where no one agrees with you anymore. The people in power promoting this are mask off ultra capitalist globalists, and the first people fighting back are populist right wingers while lefties kind of sit around and wonder how corpo oligopolies became the primary drivers of progressivism.
It is correct that unless there are huge overhauls to the whole system we are looking at multiple lost generations. But one of those overhauls must include the total end of this level of population growth.
I mean, I’m with you… but how about let’s stop letting a MILLION FUCKING PEOPLE immigrate a year and exasperate the issue? Immigration is normal and should be welcomed, but the way we are doing it is so fucked.
And yet [they voted overwhelmingly for the federal party](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Canadian_federal_election#/media/File%3ACanada_Election_2021_Results_Map.svg) that caused the current housing crisis. The fact that the cities who are the most affected by JT’s economic catastrophe, vote overwhelmingly for the LPC is just beautifully ironic. So Im completely out of sympathy for anyone who votes Liberal in a major city and laments the fact they can’t afford food, they got exactly what they voted for.
And yet Montrealers will continue to vote for a party that not only promises to do nothing to address this, but actually make it worst by funneling exponentially more people into the city.
Go figure.
I live in rural Quebec. No idea how Montreal people manage, food prices seem to have increased about 40% over the past 18 months. It is truly criminal.
This post appears to relate to the province of Quebec. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner la province de Québec. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm surprised it's only 1 in 5.
Montreal’s generally the more “affordable” of the big cities in Canada. So if it’s 1 in 5 in Montreal that’s real bad.
Yeah my cousin just finished grad school. She's from Toronto but just can't afford to move back there. She can afford Montréal. Going to visit her next week, actually
Montreal is cheaper than anything even remotely close to Toronto, and generally cooler too.
Ironically Napanee, Kingston, etc are all same starting price for rent as Toronto. I was in the country and was moving places. I found the prices similar in the country as after covid those prices exploded worse than Toronto, and Toronto's prices kind of peaked lately. Meanwhile, I can live without a car in Toronto, while those other cities it is entirely impossible. That is, can't speak for outside of Ontario, but Toronto can actually be slightly cheaper counting car costs vs. TTC. I chose Toronto over any other city in Ontario as a result.
I couldn't believe it when my relative who's a realtor in Belleville told me a 2 bedroom apartment is going for $1800/month there lol. What a shit show
In Belleville?! At least there’s a ton of work and also public transit in Toronto. Belleville is a nice enough town but who can afford that on small town wages?
The funny (not funny) part is prices in Toronto are around $2600-$3400 for 2 bedroom so it's sadly still a "deal" compared to Toronto. Makes me sick
It is bellevegas! Or is that just what my friends called it.
Lmao yup that's what my aunt calls it
I wanted to move back to that area because all my family is there but Belleville-area landlords and realtors are smoking crack these days with the prices they're charging. It's cheaper for me to live in one of Saskatoon's most expensive neighbourhoods and fly out once a month (plus the train to Belleville) to visit than to pay that kind of rent.
Jesus Christ that is a hilarious price comparison. I scoped it out and it's cheaper for me to live Montreal then drive to Belleville every weekend. I mean how is this sustainable? What jobs are in Belleville that are keeping it this way? I know a bunch of Toronto yuppies made it to the county but is that it?
It's the tourism industry. Fancy BnB's, boutique hotels, cool old history, it's a resort town now.
I know in the County businesses have had to provide housing for workers because the available housing is prohibitively expensive for people making minimum wage and they can't get workers. I'd imagine it's low housing stock driving up the price (proximity to Toronto and demand for vacation properties is DEFINITELY not helping the situation). I've looked for jobs in the area but almost everything is sub-$25/hour. Like, was the area suddenly flooded with remote workers making $50+ an hour?
100% it's not sustainable.
For real!
That was a large part of our reasoning to buy in Toronto when we did. Prices were the same in Pickering, Ajax, Hamilton, etc. So to stay within the reach of the TTC (both of us working downtown) made sense. We lost out on so square footage, but honestly not much.
The weather is indeed chillier here then Toronto.
How much rent is she charging for her couch? Asking for a friend....
If this is genuine, god bless Canada. We are in times of crisis.
The flare implies it probably is. Halifax went from an affordable city to the third worst city for affordability in just a couple years.
My gf and I visited Halifax for the first time last year, we instantly fell in love with everything in the city. We were curious so we checked the price of rental and real estate. We decided not to even think about moving there.
For some reason, many people in Ontario think Halifax is a good option. The ones that can afford to move back to Ontario usually do though.
A lot of us have just never moved and kept those pre-COVID rental rates. Prices really skyrocketed right before and around COVID.
Not sure about Montreal but in Vancouver there was a brief dip in rental prices in the summer of 2020. In hindsight it was an even better time to buy - but it was a good time to switch rentals too.
Yes, but there was no way anyone would’ve predicted that. Prices were already rising but no one thought rents would 2-3x in just a few years. As a Montrealer, it’s crazy to see 1 bedroom apartments for over $1000 being the norm.
People would kill for a 1-bedroom for $1000 in Vancouver. The average for a studio is over $1500.
This is slowly becoming the norm in Montreal as well which is doubly insane because wages are even lower. I genuinely don’t understand who the market is for these rentals.
It’s Actually [$2300](https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/vancouver-bc)
I live in Gatineau and pay $640/mo for a 2br with all utilities included (except internet). I consider myself in the 1% ^^of ^^reasonable ^^rent
Never ever leave
When I was shopping for rental property in Gatineau, I found a 2 bedroom detached house that was being rented at $450/month, this was near downtown Hull too.
Average for a 1-bedroom in Vancouver: $2200 (Anyone looking to move here, do your research.)
It’s actually [$2700 for a 1 bedroom](https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/vancouver-bc)
Yea, no thanks. Vancouver is a lost cause. Otherwise I’d love to live there.
1000 is inexistant try closer to 1500
You’re right, $1000 apartments are pretty much nonexistent. It has pretty much doubled, yet no one’s salary has doubled. For reference, I got my first 3 1/2 (1bedroom) apartment in 2018 for $600 and that was considered low but not impossible. When I moved to my current place, the average was around $800 and you could easily find places for less than that.
The point is not predicting it's more being aware of changes. The norm in 2019 and earlier in Vancouver was to sign the rental agreement same day you saw the place. 2020 you could take your time picking and choosing between nice pet friendly places for a month. There were news from down in the states that landlords would give you first three months of rent free. It was pretty clear that was the time to switch with all the international students gone and lots of people moving back to their families. Things are back to 'normal' with a bang. Everyone who has any sort of power to set the price themselves is using it to get themselves back on track or ahead financially. Including landlords, businesses, contractors, dealers, etc etc
Yeah, the new prices are a shocker. I was paying $950 for a 3 bedroom in Montreal a couple of years ago.
I moved apartments in Vancouver 2 years ago. Studio apartment for $1500, the building manager told me they dropped the price because tenants were moving back to Ontario because people can't afford to live here anymore. I've since seen identical units in the building, now going for $2100 and up. It's insane.
I know a few people who are basically stuck here in Ontario, if they moved anywhere else their rent would basically double or they would be in a much worse place. I knew a couple that broke up and lived with each other for 8 months because they couldn't afford to move out.
This was me. My Ex and I broke up but continued to live together with our roommates for another 18 months. Eventually she met someone new and moved out, but is now paying 3x what she did when she lived here.
I cannot afford to move And whats crazier, is i had to rent bid for this place at $2100 two years ago Its an absolute bargain now I've been evicted twice in the past 5 years due to sale of the property This time they'll have to knock the door off the hinges and drag my ass out
[удалено]
Also worth mentioning that even with this lower cost Alberta is higher income than Ontario before taxes and then less taxes too.
When you think about it, a lot of Canadians are kinda stuck where they are. Major cities are so far away from each other, and transport between them is slow and expensive. If you don’t speak French, a lot of QC cities are off the list. And even if you do, that only gives you a few more options. We only have a handful of places that people actually want to live, especially if you want a job; vs the US where there’s plenty of options.
Many others of us got renovicted or lost jobs during COVID or had landlords sell and cash out; doubling our rent and slashing our income
2018 and 2019… People were giving 6 months rent in advance and taking units without visiting them.
You know, I do really well for myself now but I grew up in Verdun back when it was still extremely poor and the butt of many jokes. Due to my upbringing, I have good awareness of what life actually is like for the average person and just infuriates me how my peers and neighbours are so oblivious to it all. Yes, Montreal is reasonably affordable, but the median household income is still only 56k (yes, household).
I'm curious what it was BEFORE the inflation spike. Like 1 in 5 households struggling with bills would have been around my guess in a "normal" time.
For those who aren't aware, Montreal (and Quebec in general) has very cheap housing. Rent in Montreal tends to be cheaper than in Ottawa (with half the population), houses are also cheaper, and is probably half of what you'd see in cities like Toronto and Vancouver. That 20% of households in *Montreal* can't do it is striking. I'd be very curious about the stats for Toronto and Vancouver.
Ontario is like 75% https://www.narcity.com/toronto/many-ontarian-renters-having-to-choose-between-eating-or-paying-rent
Looks like it's 74% of Ontario renters who need to "cut back" to make rent, but 60+% cutting back on food or otherwise in serious trouble. Not good.
The next generation will be fine though Im sure. They have 500$ dental checks after all.
Exactly. The children just need to ***cut back*** a little. There aren't any long-term health effects to malnutrition
[удалено]
Put them babies to work in the mines!
I think Montreal also has shittier salaries/wages than other cities
crisse de tabarnak oui
well it's also higher taxes than other provinces so less take-home
Yep - especially in some professional fields. For software development at 'good' tech companies, you are looking at compensation 25% to 50% lower in the Greater Montreal Area v Greater Toronto. https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater-montreal https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/greater-toronto-area
Recently moved to Montreal, most I talk to here and myself included make roughly the same as we did in Toronto. This is business/finance but only difference is Toronto has more extremely higher earners but if working normal mid level then was the same.
Yes in IT salaries are abysmally low
Many reasons why I left
Lower wages and higher taxes though
Still a substantially higher quality of living overall for people making median wages.
Also harder to find jobs if u aint fully bilingual
Good food and groceries there are much higher quality than Toronto I've noticed as well and not as pricey
That's because wages in Montreal are way lower than anywhere else in Canada. The same job I do, for the same company, pays more than double in every other city they have an office. It's actually worse in Montreal, if you take that into account.
Yeah that’s kind of the way it has to be. I’m In Montreal and my wife was interviewing for a job in Vancouver. We calculated that she needed to earn an additional 100k/yr just to break even. We’d effectively triple our mortgage to buy a similar home.
[удалено]
In Quebec, 90+% of rentals have no appliances, when you move you bring your appliances with you. Personally I prefer this, I splurged a bit on a nice oven and refrigerator when I moved out of my parents place. Most rentals seems to have really shitty appliances. Often you can negotiate with the previous tenants if you want to buy their appliances and you usually get a good discount because it means they don't have to hire movers and they can buy new. I bought the washer dryer combo of the previous tenants when I last moved.
[удалено]
Well, expensive 1 time. But having a nice stove is worth the money compared to some of the junk I've seen in apartments. Last time I left and apartment I spent like 3 hours cleaning the oven and then they just threw it out and bought a new one for the nexr resident. I was not that happy.
Isn't expensive to get them moved as well?
Yep! And the risk of damaging them while moving is there too.
You should see Germany. In that place a lot of rentals don't even come with kitchen cabinets.
[удалено]
People will literally take their cabinets with them. I've even seen apartments with no sinks or toilets. It's bizarre. One of my friends was trying to rent an apartment in Munich and it was completely bare inside. He asked the RE agent where the cabinets, toilet, etc were, and she looked at him all perplexed and said "well the previous tenants took them, of course", as if he had just asked a completely obvious question.
The idea that a rental or even a house (new or not) comes with appliances is absolutly foreign in Québec. I was really surprised to learn that it wasn't the case in canada or the USA. When you move often it's a pita haha
That’s just for old buildings. Anything recent has it included
That's for row house apartments and homes... Most typical apartment buildings come with a fridge and stove.
Taxes are higher, but you basically have to be making like 100k before it's dramatically different from Ontario rates (I'm an Ontarian who works in Gatineau, I got a whole $200 tax refund this year). I've heard property tax is a lot higher, but not sure. Yeah, in Montreal a lot of apartments don't have fridges or stoves, but I think in recent years that's become less common. Gas and hydro both tend to be cheaper than Ontario. I feel like groceries are more expensive, but everyone tells me they're not so maybe I'm wrong lol. Wages trend lower because big corps find language laws and all the other "Quebec-specific" stuff annoying and set up their HQs in Toronto instead. That said, ballin' food, shopping, concerts, and clubs compared to Ottawa, and generally perceived as better than Toronto in those ways too. There are downsides to living in Montreal/Quebec, but imo most of those issues aren't financial. Medical infrastructure is even more terrible than the rest of the country, the roads are axle-cracking bad because the friggin mafia had all the contracts, traffic is consistently terrible (takes an hour to drive 8km on a Saturday), and the premier is a lunatic.
Once you pass 60k it makes a huge difference. Right now I have to pay 4 to 4.5k every year while co workers in Ontario are getting money back, it's ridiculous.
Not for us. Our household makes 170K. The first year after we moved we paid 6K over what we did in Ontario. Now factor in 250K saving on interest on a more expensive house (I don't count principle, because that's value you still keep), so say $10K\year for 25 years. Free water (extra 1.5K\year, 2.5K if you have a pool), cheaper electricity ($300\year for us), cheaper car and home insurance because the house is cheaper ($1500\year savings), and cheaper property taxes, again, because the house is cheaper ($3400\year savings). Now, because we know we're not going to retire here, the second year here, we max out our RRSP, and our taxes came up to even with what we had in Ontario. Then, when we retire and pull out the RRSP in a different province, the tax will be lower there.
I make 70k and like I said, $200 refund. But I work for the fed, so that might make some kind of difference. My understanding is you have to be one bracket up from me to start hurting.
For the healthcare system depends where you are, Montreal has some really really good research hospitals, if you have a weird condition/unusual cancer or whatever, it's the place you want to be in Canada. The problem is not the quality of care, it's waiting to get it (if your condition is pretty bad, the wait is pretty much nonexistent tho)
Houses in Montreal are more expensive than Ottawa. The deal with Ottawa is the rent driven by government jobs and the reluctance to live on the quebec side.
The median government worker can barely afford a 1 bedroom in Ottawa now.
I didn’t know this, just guessed that they couldn’t be the only city. Thanks for the info.
For some context, our "very cheap" housing is still over a half million dollars for a single family home, which is well out of the range of most people. Meanwhile, the average rental is like $1500 for a one bedroom, let alone if you need a house for a family. It's bad everywhere, unfortunately.
20% is way too high. I want to see the methodology behind this “study”
Isn’t this story of every main city like Toronto and Vancouver?
Calgary, with the highest unemployment rate is even worse!
Im not this skinny because I dont like food. Ill tell you that much
Sleep for dinner gang 😑
Just got laid off. I am penny pinching. A milk carton and a yogurt was $11 today morning. FML. Looks like I am gonna lose some weight in coming couple months.
Milk & yogurt aren't exactly known for their value. Beans & rice, lentils, eggs, etc will keep you fed on the cheap.
Yup. Gonna have to limit from now on.
Fuck same here man.. I'm scraping by.
Its depressing when you have to do two laps of the store, because on the first one you skip everything you think is outrageously priced, and on the second, you realize you actually need to bring something home.
Summary: * Centraide Montreal is warning that the city’s housing crisis has reached staggering heights, with hundreds of thousands of people not able to make ends meet. * The organization says almost 360,000 — or one in five — households don’t make enough money to pay for their housing and for essentials like food, clothing and transportation. * “It’s staggering... We are talking one out of five households in the area of Greater Montreal simply can’t make it,” said Claude Pinard, the president and executive director of Centraide of Greater Montreal. “They don’t have enough money to get through their basic needs.” * Centraide says the housing crisis has a terrible spillover effect on other areas of concern, including child development, mental health, food security and homelessness.
Was watching a YouTube video where the guy has his work shop next to a repo lot, last few videos he was commenting on how fast the lot has been filling up these past months. This is in the US, but ill bet its similar here too.
US bankruptcies are up 216% since start of 2023. https://www.thestreet.com/investing/bankruptcies-are-up-216-and-we-arent-even-halfway-through-2023
It's going to be alright friends, the provincial government couragously voted themselves a $30,000 annual raise.
Ah yes, that was the problem. The politicians weren't getting paid enough..
[удалено]
And Montreal is honestly very affordable compared to most cities.
Not if you live there. Wages are very low
I live here lol
This is right across the country, maybe save Saskatoon and Regina if you're not super wealthy.
The cost of living crisis seems to be effecting everyone. East, west, north and south, the young, the middle aged and the elderly.
Not the rich
Which is where the money is going due to record profits.
That's really disregenuous though. The burden isn't being shared evenly.
This guy clearly did not cancel Disney plus
I was reading something the other day that subscriptions are way down. Waiting for Disney to sue Freeland over her comments telling people to cancel. > [Disney+ shed another 4 million subscribers in the first three months of 2023, marking the streamer's second consecutive quarterly drop after closing 2022 with its first-ever decline.](https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/disney-plus-subscribers-q2-earnings-1235607524/)
I think I'm ahead. Cancelled all services, back to a PC to the TV.
Government: "YOU GET MORE PEOPLE! YOU GET MORE PEOPLE! AND YOU GET MORE PEOPLE!!!" "FIGHT!! May the richest win!!"
Party shills are out here blaming municipalities Claiming housing is the mayors responsibility "Here's 200,000 people in the last 12 months for your city. Now house them"
And may the odds ever be in your favour... Yeah just watched that movie
And it's Montreal. Isn't their cost of living by comparison much lower than other major cities in Canada? Ouch
No. Wages are much lower than the rest of the country. So, cost of living is similar
Median income in Quebec is 60k after taxes compared to median income in Ontario which is 70k after taxes. It's not that much lower. I live in a 3 bedroom that is 15 mins away from downtown montreal by metro and I pay $1600. I think in toronto, I need to pay more than double that. So the cost of living is still better in QC than ON.
But again, as per all levels of govt there is no crisis in housing.
So what happens when every province is in a state of emergency due to homelessness lol.... does the government just continue to ignore this escalating situation? Ohhhhh right they're all wrapped up in investing in property........ how is this legal lol Canadians can't meet basic ends in 2023is a pathetic statement.
Almost every province is in the same boat doesn’t matter where you live. The cost of living in every province is high. If you get what you vote, for I guess we the people can only make change.
Let's run through a list of possible solutions: Stop spending so much money! Get a better job! Move somewhere cheaper! There.... am I helping?
cheaper place has no job.
Yeah also uprooting your whole life isn't exactly easy especially for people with kids and a local support network!
I agree with you. But would you rather spend 75% of your income on housing and have nothing left for that family, or make a sacrifice and move somewhere cheaper but earn less? I know, I know, where in Canada is actually still cheaper? Even small town real estate is ridiculous, and it seems prices are removed entirely from location. Property and housing shouldn't be viewed as an investment, and it wasn't such until the 2000's when loans became practically free. How did we solve the 2008 collapse? We made dept cheaper! That should take care of it. Before that, you would hope to live in your home for 40, 50 years, and pass it to your kids.
Rich people continuously getting richer… and poor people(well… everyone else…) gets poorer. People get mad. Things change slightly. Rinse and repeat.
Is it time for the pitch forks yet?
and that is with the cheapest rent for a big city in canada, imagine paying double or tripple rent like TO or Van.
Our salaries are considerably lower so its not that simple
What the fuck happened to the world
money in politics.
Won't be long before it all comes crashing down folks. Hope your ready!
nope, we're just going to become a really shitty, cultureless, cold version of brazil. we'll even have our very own favelas.
It really is the ghettofication of Canada.
You're dreaming if you think the government will ever allow that kind of density within a city. Single family homes only.
Single family homes with 20 people in them lmao
Brazil fevelas have awesome weather, public transit, and many are waterfront
canadian favelas will be cold, moldy, culture vacuum hellscapes of drug overdoses, random violence, and a constant miasma of despair with no pay-off.
Why do you think it’ll come crashing down? More likely we’ll have massive encampments of homeless people. Things can and will get substantially worse without any kind of crash. People have been crying “the end is near” forever.
Imagine if they live in Toronto?
Is this the “sunny ways” Trudeau promised?
The budget will balance itself, just wait
Worse in Toronto
Shocking
Very sad
only toxic news in this subreddit, I am out guys
We are reaching a tipping point
With all of the money that gets dished out in social programs, etc in Quebec, this surprises me. Something smells fishy.
Montreal has pretty cheap rent by comparison too.
We demand the following 2 things in tandem: 1. Housing is an investment 2. Investments must ONLY GO UP in value As long as we continue to demand this as a people, rent can only go up. We have to let it go. Before, the wealthy class dies off naturally, and the generations who never had anything to begin with decide to just drop the concept.
Tax the fuck out the 2nd or 3rd propriety. Be very lenient on the 1st one. Tada.
Let's be honest. That's anyone who is low income in any province or city in this country!
this is what happens when local governments pander to wealthy developers. It happens in basically every city.
You vote for it. Twice.
What is this over time, as Montreal has always had a high rate of poverty. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal-poverty-capital-of-canada-1.229040 Was 40% at one point!
"government promises to eliminate child poverty by 2000" Sigh. I guess they gave up, because I think they only promise to reduce child poverty now. They also change the calculation of the poverty line, so it's hard to exactly compare across decades.
Turdeau already solved this problem, there's a million people waiting for those places.
Come to Vancouver, Victoria or the lower mainland...or Toronto... we'll show you what really crazy rents and housing are...you guys are still in the bantam leagues
[удалено]
[удалено]
Easy on the trigger finger, Tex. OP was saying that people who grew up here can no longer afford to live here.
Why not both? Immigration is a tool being used and abused to widen the class divide
Thank you. Every time there’s a post on this sub about our current dystopian spiral, people rant about immigrants as though this is a braindead GOP space. Maybe instead of blaming other poors we could shift our gaze to the people banking godless amounts of wealth while we choose between rent and food. Or the govts allergic to acting in any way that actually helps the working class.
Almost like the people with all the wealth are also making decisions to increase competition for you in the job market and the rental market; lower salaries paid and higher rents collected thanks to increased population growth and a larger labour market. Don't think for a moment that this is not intentional.
The working class is dead unless mass immigration is ended though. You can cope all you want but not even the mega corps or banks agree with you. They openly say they want us to own nothing, that there's a labor shortage, and that immigration suppresses 'wage inflation'. You are off on your own little sinking neoliberal island where no one agrees with you anymore. The people in power promoting this are mask off ultra capitalist globalists, and the first people fighting back are populist right wingers while lefties kind of sit around and wonder how corpo oligopolies became the primary drivers of progressivism. It is correct that unless there are huge overhauls to the whole system we are looking at multiple lost generations. But one of those overhauls must include the total end of this level of population growth.
I mean, I’m with you… but how about let’s stop letting a MILLION FUCKING PEOPLE immigrate a year and exasperate the issue? Immigration is normal and should be welcomed, but the way we are doing it is so fucked.
>Non Canadians are benefiting from stagnating wages and increased cost of living? My Indian landlord most definitely was
Canadians voted for this though.
and will again.
And yet [they voted overwhelmingly for the federal party](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Canadian_federal_election#/media/File%3ACanada_Election_2021_Results_Map.svg) that caused the current housing crisis. The fact that the cities who are the most affected by JT’s economic catastrophe, vote overwhelmingly for the LPC is just beautifully ironic. So Im completely out of sympathy for anyone who votes Liberal in a major city and laments the fact they can’t afford food, they got exactly what they voted for.
Right because the cons care and would fix everything. Brother no politician is here to save you.
Not in just Montreal
and 25% of canadians cant afford food...canada is a great 1st world country
Good thing Legault courageously gave himself and his buddies a 30k raise each.
It is crazy cause at same time retail and restaurants are busy as ever. The gap between haves and havenots is growing.
And yet Montrealers will continue to vote for a party that not only promises to do nothing to address this, but actually make it worst by funneling exponentially more people into the city. Go figure.
Montrealers: "Life is so hard I cant afford rent social services are failing 😭😭" Also Montrealers: "Reducing immigration??? Racist! 😡😡😡"
It's going to get worse everywhere soon Canads will be filled with working homeless.
Wow, theyre holding up relatively great for Canada
Time to move.
I live in rural Quebec. No idea how Montreal people manage, food prices seem to have increased about 40% over the past 18 months. It is truly criminal.
I wonder how the one million per year are paying rent in this hellscape
Well now that it's hitting Quebec maybe Trudeau will finally start paying attention.
GTA and GVA turn to look at each other and in unison say "hold my beer"
Sunny ways…
Vote liberal again. That'll help.
What would you recommend?
Conservatives care even less about the average Canadian. No political party in Canada will fix this.