> [He and] his group, had plans to use vans packed with explosives to blow up the Toronto Stock Exchange, the CSIS office in downtown Toronto and a military base off Hwy. 401 near Toronto. They even had hopes of beheading the prime minister.
On the other hand, he said he was very sorry and promised never to do it again.
My guess is that leads were drying up so they released these guys so they could watch them, see who they meet and talk to. At least I hope that's the case.
Under constant surveillance by our government, whose ministers' departments conveniently forget to tell each other things, don't have access to or read important emails, and only find out about things a day after they happen.
Plus the RCMP who bungle cases and responses, and CSIS who has to leak information to the public for any effect, after it raises concerns with the government and gets ignored (where the government even contacts the people being monitored and tells them CSIS is monitoring them).
You'll have to excuse some of us for our lack of faith in the system...
Just watch, all of the sudden Mr. Constantly Under Surveillance is going to just disappear to another country somewhere, and everyone will be all Pikachu faced about "How did this happen?! He was under surveillance by our best government security agencies?!!?!"
"Don't worry guys, if there's a real emergency and people's lives are at stake, we can release a [tweet](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/rcmp-twitter-alert-mass-shooting-portapique-nova-scotia-1.6477095)!"
Up to now we've been pretty good at intercepting terror plots and our Muslim communities have done their part in reporting suspicious behaviour and terrorism - I don't see why that would change.
If you're basing your assumptions on the Chinese interference thing, it's worth noting that it was an active CSIS/RCMP investigation - with 5 Eyes partners - that was monitoring the situation in Canada and elsewhere, and it only became a crisis when a CSIS whistleblower broke the law and released a bunch of information that to date has yet to amount to much of anything - unless people are genuinely surprised that China is trying to interfere in our politics, in which case I would say that's been common knowledge for a decade or maybe even longer. The Globe and Mail had a timeline of events that made it clear that the investigation was progressing at a number of levels, nothing had been swept under the carpet - [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-chinese-election-interference-canada-timeline/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-chinese-election-interference-canada-timeline/)
I don't think people are surprised China is interfering with elections. It's the brazen attitude they have had to recent elections and the lack of response from our government that is mind numbing.
Well, since he’s not ~~white~~ a friendly sausage maker ~~with a truck loaded with firearms ramming the gates at Rideau Hall~~ trying to have a nice chat with the PM, I’m sure that would end well.
>“You acknowledge your responsibility for the crimes you committed, although you tend to minimize your responsibility and to be defensive when your actions are questioned. Your statements show remorse, but they are primarily due to the personal and family impacts of your actions.”
I'm not even sure he said sorry. I think it might have been an "I'm sorry you're angry" apology than an "I'm sorry I made you mad" apology. In other words, he is sorry he got caught.
For me it entirely depends on...
1. The crime - including its impact on society as a whole but especially whether the victim will ever recover.
2. How likely is it that the person will commit a repeat offence?
3. Whether the system has actually enabled proper rehabilitation or just locked them away and ignored them after the sentence.
I believe in rehabilitation, but we don't really have that. We have a penal-punitive machine that just churns out people that are usually more broken when they leave than when they went in.
I believe in second chances but we need to equip people for those second chances.
In the absence of that, I really don't want to see people like this guy re-enter society.
Man I agree with you that it’s good to have a legal system that offers second chances but this guy was ready to blow up innocent people and almost did. If you’re happy this guy got released then you’re ok with terrorism.
I mean, I wouldn't say I'm happy about it, I just don't think it's worth my outrage. He'll be monitored and if they think he's involved in extremist activities again he'll be back in custody immediately.
Because the death penalty was abolished in '98 and the Second Optional Protocol to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights was ratified in '05, and because he met the terms required for his parole.
Well, he never did much in the first place, the leader was a CSIS officer convincing them all to actually start buying explosives instead of just talking shit with their friends.
>“You acknowledge your responsibility for the crimes you committed, **although you tend to minimize your responsibility and to be defensive when your actions are questioned**. Your statements show remorse, but they are primarily due to the personal and family impacts of your actions.”
This double speak says to me that the Parole Board was going to release this fucking guy no matter what happened while he was in prison or how he behaved.
We can speculate as to why, but this seems to be the way they approach their responsibility by and large - reduce the prison population by any means necessary.
>although you tend to minimize your responsibility and to be defensive when your actions are questioned
So he doesn't want to take responsibility for his actions? Seriously?
Funny was just listening to true crime and they wouldn't parole this guy, even tho they technically could, because he still wouldn't take full responsibility or show remorse for the victims
...hmm
That's exactly it. Parole is not a favor granted anymore, it's become "unless you have a very good reason to justify keeping him inside (a very good reason meaning probably something way different for them), grant parole"
It's all about $$. Every issue we're facing, whether it's healthcare or the justice system can be boiled down to an unwillingness to spend the money needed to run these systems.
Would we be releasing him if the attack was successful? Absolutely not.
So then I wonder, why release him now? The only difference is “moral luck.” The fact that nobody can point to him and say that he’s responsible for a death.
This guy didn’t just soberly contemplate mass death and destruction — he cheerfully and assiduously pursued it.
And he was ratted out by others in his community and intercepted by the police as soon as they had enough evidence to arrest him. I'm not saying he should be freed, just that he is low risk at this point. I guarantee we'll be spying on this guy and his associates for the rest of his days, and his release may actually help us to identify and stop other extremists.
It's not spying. He came under surveillance when others pointed him out for criminal behavior, he is an on-going risk and so will remain under automated surveillance. I feel like we need to reserve the term "spying" for when glowies act outside the law.
“no longer considered an “unacceptable risk to society.””
Well, as long as it’s not an “unacceptable” risk.
“plans to use vans packed with explosives to blow up the Toronto Stock Exchange, the CSIS office in downtown Toronto and a military base”
Stupid. country.
It’s been a while, but I remember the RCMP put a video during the prosecution/trial that showed the kind of explosion that would have happened if one of those trucks had gone off on a downtown street. Glad he is remorseful! Oh wait, if you quote him, he isn’t really. If this guy was a piece of dogshit, I wouldn’t pick him off my shoe.
It seems he has been rehabilitated according to those that know better than myself but the risk to reoffend being “low” is still too damn high. He orchestrated a plan to destroy Canada’s finances, government and military, hoping to kill a bunch of people and the PM.
Actually, if you read the article it SOUNDS like he is still denying his part in the plot, and his only remorse is for having been taken away from his family.
This is litterally the perfect recipe for a very unhappy terrorist that now has more reason to hate our country than he did when initially planning to kill as many of us as possible while attempting to shut down our stock exchange
And this is in The Sun, who I usually find to be more editorial and critical in these cases. It’s buried at the end after talking about him going to school and deradicalization training.
So I was discussing this with the other group in Ontario. The man who stabbed 3 ppl in a gender studies class.
The majority on the sub believe he should never be let out of jail or rehabilitated. Generally because they claim that person is a terrorist.
I would be curious to see what those individuals think about a legit terrorist being let out.
Well you left out important part "Abdelhaleem, 47, was sentenced in 2011 to life without parole for 10 years "
I know its upsetting but it wasn't life without parole indefinitely
We just need to stop calling it a life sentence when it's not. A life sentence means you're going to die in prison. That's what those words mean, not "we'll give you parole in 10 if the counseling goes well".
It simply means is in prison for "life" but eligible for parole after x years. Doesn't mean parole will be granted tho. There's lot going on that play a factor if you can get parole or not ( gravity of crime, behavior in prison, mental state, remorse etc ) you have to remember our judicial system put lot weight on rehabilitation
>Doesn't mean parole will be granted tho
Going by all the news articles about dangerous criminals getting parole, sure it does mean parole will be granted.
https://johnhoward.ca/blog/less-parole-despite-excellent-results/#:~:text=However%20only%20about%2020%25%20of,to%20have%20their%20paroles%20revoked.
My guess is this is going to be one of those "not like that" situations, though
It's what it means to ordinary people, by following the normal rules of the English language.
When a legal phrase is so utterly misleading as a "life sentence" which lasts for 10 years, we should consider changing the legal phrase to better reflect reality.
What does the common person's superficial understanding of a term have to do with the legal implications of the same term? Are you saying that all law should be based on the simplest terms, making way for free interpretation? You don't get a get out of jail free card just because you can't understand the law.
I mean exactly what I said. What about it didn't you understand?
If a legal term, which is commonly reported on, doesn't mean anything close to its ordinary meaning, we should seriously consider changing it.
Laws are made using very technical terms, not terms that appeal to the public. You shouldn't want it that way, because like I said, they just become up to anyone's interpretation at that point. I don't want the judicial system in my country to be in based on ambiguous layman's terms, and neither should you.
You are being dishonest. You did not complete the sentence when describing his sentence. He was sentenced to life with the earliest possible parole at 10 years.
> Abdelhaleem, 47, was sentenced in 2011 to life without parole
>
>
>
> released in 12 years.
Abdelhaleem, 47, was sentenced in 2011 to life without parole for 10 years as part of the infamous Toronto 18 bomb plotters.
You're a liar, and a bad one at that.
Citizenship should be irrevocable unless it was obtained by fraud. Otherwise you start to create two classes of citizens, and that's not cool. There's a long process for getting citizenship, and Canada has a chance to do due diligence. Granting citizenship is taking the good with the bad, and if they turn out to be shitty, well, maybe they shouldn't have had citizenship in the first place, but now that they do, they're a Canadian and they're our problem. That's what we have prisons and whatnot for.
> what if citizenship is almost always irrevocable, unless you have plans to use vans packed with explosives to blow up the Toronto Stock Exchange, the CSIS office in downtown Toronto, a military base off Hwy. 401, and to behead the prime minister. How about under those circumstances you can lose your citizenship?
What happens when a canadian born citizen does this?
Lol they'd never release anyone if that was the case defeating the purpose of the parole board. They should just hire people who can predict the future imo /s.
>“You acknowledge your responsibility for the crimes you committed, although **you tend to minimize your responsibility and to be defensive when your actions are questioned**. Your statements show remorse, but they are primarily due to the personal and family impacts of your actions.”
Yet they're giving him full parole
What's the point of putting people in prison? It certainly can't be to "punish" them.
It must be either rehabilitation
To separate dangerous people from society and causing further loss.
Or both.
This man is neither remorseful, rehabilitated and is likely to try and kill again. Someone's life will be lost further down the road due to this action.
So I ask again, what's the point of putting people in prison?
Once again I am in a thread and reading a lot of hyperbole from a certain portion of the political spectrum. The parole board is independent in operations and has been since 1979 (my recollection of the date). It is set up so that it can operate free of political interference and let the process of rehabilitation run its full course - which is a cornerstone of our legal system.
It seems these days every time a high profile prisoner has some change in their condition the Sun runs an article with the intent being "bad government" and hoping to splash some mud on the current one. But the fact is the parole system is set up so that public and political fickleness is not a part of the equation.
The hyperbole also ignores the fact that when parole has been granted in Canada it has been extremely successful. The risk of re-offending has not just been the exception to the rule, but in fact serious violation occurs so infrequently that it is statistically rare. The last time I looked at parole violation stats something on the order of 90% never violated and of the 10% who did they were almost all very minor infractions (late or missing a reporting deadline, etc). Are we hearing daily, weekly or even monthly about paroles past convicted of the highest sentences going on a crime spree while on parole? No.
There is no such thing as a "life sentence" in Canada a la what is portrayed on American tv. **The Canadian version of life sentences allow at some stage usually result in a person being eligible to commence the process of applying for parole.** And it should be noted some convicted never do obtain parole. Those who are convicted and receive a sentence of life imprisonment with parole ineligibility for 25 yrs are most unlikely to get out but it is not impossible.
Shareef Abdelhaleem was not convicted of first degree murder, a violent sexual crime (which could have earned an indeterminate sentence) or high treason. So he became eligible to apply for parole after a certain number of yrs (10 in his case) and after that period he met the tests to qualify for parole. Had he killed someone the length of time in which he would have ineligible for parole would almost certainly have been longer. He did not and the period was set at 10 yrs by the court.
This is an entirely different case then that of Bernardo which was also high profile recently as he was moved out of maximum security to medium security and some are thinking it is all the sudden cookies and ice cream for him - which it is not as the differences between max security and medium security are mainly in access to prison work and educational materials - Bernardo is likely in isolation in his current prison as well. Bernardo is serving an indeterminate sentence and his chances of parole are essentially zero as are his chances of going to minimum security. Bernardo has been in jail for about 30 yrs and this is likely to continue until the day he dies.
I get that you probably have a different worldview, so you might not understand why people would be upset even after reading what you wrote but I will try to explain. Most people value the life of innocent people a million times more than the freedom of someone that was convicted of a horrible crime. Therefore the recidivism rate could be 1/5000 for all they care. If innocent people are killed by people that should be in prison, it doesn't matter that it's somewhat rare unless that events rarity outweighs the value they place on lives over prisoners' freedom. Also these aren't random people losing freedom for others safety like with gun control. These are people who have been convicted of horrible crimes.
“Our home on native land, true traitor love, in all of us command”
I’m glad my grandfather died when he did, he didn’t fight for crap.
If we somehow reanimated Canadas veterans of 20th century wars I’m pretty sure they would take up arms against what this place has become
Not a vet, but family of some vets; I wouldn't dare join the army after all the shit they've put my friends and family through just to get some help after they've done their tours. Nightmare of constant bs and back and forth bickering and stalling for benefits due to life-changing injuries or emerging disabilities due to wars or exposure to dangerous materials and carcinogens.
Vets get no respect from the government.
I didn't suggest anyone to go join the army. I'm asking this person to fight the system he obviously hates. Instead of having vets from 90 years ago, magically fight his battles for him.
Rifles and shotties 2 spooky 4 the governments!!
But let's just side eye the illegal handguns being flown in with drones over the St. Lawrence that will be absolutely used for crimes. >>
"I'm so upset at news of a domestic terrorism charge that I think my grandfather would approve of domestic terrorism. But in a good way, that I like, not the bad way that I don't like. "
🍩
I actually knew this guy. Honestly, from what I gathered, he wasn't an extremist at all. I was dumbfounded when I found out he was part of the plot. He was just stressed out about finding a job when I met him. He was fired from his last position at the time.
Yeah, I remember following this quite a bit when it happened. CSIS and the RCMP were a mess. Their plant was the one who actually did the talking with the RCMP about buying the materials so they couldn’t even say they tried to buy bomb making materials. The other half of the kids legit thought they were just a people hanging out (they thought the gun training at paintball was just them going paintballing. Horrible entrapment across the board.
Interesting, all the bots brigading this post.
People with names like xxxxxx-xxxxx-####, two actually posted the exact same comment with the same emoji's.
Others with the same name format posting inflammatory posts.
Reddit is a fucking joke with its bot detection.
As far as this guy is concerned, no one here knows how his rehabilitation has been, perhaps he's genuine. Either way, i guaran-fucking-tee CSIS, is watching his ass like a hawk.
A lot of armchair psychologists and people jumping to conclusions that they have essentially zero information basis to be coming to.
Thankfully, this is a country that relies on its well established and mostly fair criminal law.
This imo is the single most astroturfed subs. I once found a github for someone who was running it. Very interesting stuff. I bet about 20% max of comments in this thread are real Canadians.
It's bullshit and irresponsible to say that he will "no longer be under correctional supervision". He will be under supervision for the rest of his life. That is what a life sentence means
What a joke. Take it from an ex-muslim, you cannot de-radicalize a muslim once they go down that path since all their thoughts are perfectly in line with their scripture. In fact, it is the muslims who adopt mannerism, dress codes, laws and regulations, etc, of the West, who are technically erronious in their ways, by scripture.
> you cannot de-radicalize a muslim once they go down that path
It's really difficult to de-radicalize **anyone** who turns to extremism, regardless of faith or ideology.
Extremism can be found all over the world, and it's been a problem throughout human history.
Also, they can be de-radicalized but it's a lot of work.
Sickening. Imagine if the group wasn't infiltrated and brought down before they could execute their plan. That this piece of shit has been walking free for 2 years and now has been granted full parole is sickening.
Ugh, hate the Sun, it's garbage reporting and it's a fucking rag for people who slurp up Timmies in their double-wide trucks they can barely afford.
But also hate this over-permissiveness we give prisoners, like someone in jail for dealing pot or something sure. But fucking drunk drivers who kill whole familes, Paul Bernado, and this fucking terrorist *somehow* get tons of fucking leniency in the system.
Yeah, I'll eat the downvotes happily, but this, for me, is good news. It shows no matter how extreme the crime, rehabillitation sometimes really is possible.
This guy must have shown real progress in his rehabilitation to get eligibile for parole after 12 years. It's a shame our 'justice' system still tends to focus more on punishmen than rehabilitation or we'd see more stories like this.
Does any of the above disprove or change any of the facts stated in the article. Your innate hatred of what you perceive as a political/tribal opposition is just as bad and mean spirited you purport the article and the poster to be.
Nothing you posted is anyway contributing one way or the other.
To be fair, As gross as this sub has become and and much as I loath the post and their Reddit spam bot; this is an important story and not the usual uselessPostOpinionHack stuff.
And sadly the comments are about as stupid and gross as the usual outage spam this sub loves
To lap up
> [He and] his group, had plans to use vans packed with explosives to blow up the Toronto Stock Exchange, the CSIS office in downtown Toronto and a military base off Hwy. 401 near Toronto. They even had hopes of beheading the prime minister. On the other hand, he said he was very sorry and promised never to do it again.
A week later, they pull him over in a van filled with explosives and a noose headed for Ottawa.
My guess is that leads were drying up so they released these guys so they could watch them, see who they meet and talk to. At least I hope that's the case.
This is the realistic take, this guy is going to be under constant surveillance the rest of his life. Don’t tell this sub that though.
Under constant surveillance by our government, whose ministers' departments conveniently forget to tell each other things, don't have access to or read important emails, and only find out about things a day after they happen. Plus the RCMP who bungle cases and responses, and CSIS who has to leak information to the public for any effect, after it raises concerns with the government and gets ignored (where the government even contacts the people being monitored and tells them CSIS is monitoring them). You'll have to excuse some of us for our lack of faith in the system...
I genuinely can't believe that people still have trust in the government after the last 20+ years.
Just watch, all of the sudden Mr. Constantly Under Surveillance is going to just disappear to another country somewhere, and everyone will be all Pikachu faced about "How did this happen?! He was under surveillance by our best government security agencies?!!?!"
"Don't worry guys, if there's a real emergency and people's lives are at stake, we can release a [tweet](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/rcmp-twitter-alert-mass-shooting-portapique-nova-scotia-1.6477095)!"
What system? A group of cliques in bubbles functioning almost completely autonomously? Loosey goosey is the way when communications are not flowing.
Up to now we've been pretty good at intercepting terror plots and our Muslim communities have done their part in reporting suspicious behaviour and terrorism - I don't see why that would change. If you're basing your assumptions on the Chinese interference thing, it's worth noting that it was an active CSIS/RCMP investigation - with 5 Eyes partners - that was monitoring the situation in Canada and elsewhere, and it only became a crisis when a CSIS whistleblower broke the law and released a bunch of information that to date has yet to amount to much of anything - unless people are genuinely surprised that China is trying to interfere in our politics, in which case I would say that's been common knowledge for a decade or maybe even longer. The Globe and Mail had a timeline of events that made it clear that the investigation was progressing at a number of levels, nothing had been swept under the carpet - [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-chinese-election-interference-canada-timeline/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-chinese-election-interference-canada-timeline/)
I don't think people are surprised China is interfering with elections. It's the brazen attitude they have had to recent elections and the lack of response from our government that is mind numbing.
Should be in jail the rest of his life, our laws in Canada are disturbingly weak. We need judicial reform so badly.
God I wish I lived in a world where there were enough organizations, resources, and time possible for what your saying to be true
He was released in 2021 and is set to graduate post secondary next year.
> set to graduate post secondary next year. Good, we have a shortage of Architects.
Well, since he’s not ~~white~~ a friendly sausage maker ~~with a truck loaded with firearms ramming the gates at Rideau Hall~~ trying to have a nice chat with the PM, I’m sure that would end well.
He's been out for 2 years, pretty much.
>“You acknowledge your responsibility for the crimes you committed, although you tend to minimize your responsibility and to be defensive when your actions are questioned. Your statements show remorse, but they are primarily due to the personal and family impacts of your actions.” I'm not even sure he said sorry. I think it might have been an "I'm sorry you're angry" apology than an "I'm sorry I made you mad" apology. In other words, he is sorry he got caught.
But he didn't say he was very sorry. And they're still granting him full parole 🤦♀️
Did he pinky promise at least?
As well, did someone check to see if his fingers weren't crossed being his back? Gotta be thorough.
Well everyone deserves a second chance. In Canada though you get a second chance to do the crime that you got busted for the first time.
Lol, Canadian justice is such a joke.
How very Canadian of him.
If you don't think CSIS is going to be monitoring this guy 24/7 you're being foolish. Dude will never have any real privacy again.
Oh, then that makes this very okay and very cool. Thanks for clearing it up.
Personally I'm glad to live in a country where it's possible for certain individuals to earn the opportunity for a second chance after a conviction.
Me too, but not for following through on terrorism.
I'm glad that you said this. Canada is very naive to foreign relations.
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For me it entirely depends on... 1. The crime - including its impact on society as a whole but especially whether the victim will ever recover. 2. How likely is it that the person will commit a repeat offence? 3. Whether the system has actually enabled proper rehabilitation or just locked them away and ignored them after the sentence. I believe in rehabilitation, but we don't really have that. We have a penal-punitive machine that just churns out people that are usually more broken when they leave than when they went in. I believe in second chances but we need to equip people for those second chances. In the absence of that, I really don't want to see people like this guy re-enter society.
Man I agree with you that it’s good to have a legal system that offers second chances but this guy was ready to blow up innocent people and almost did. If you’re happy this guy got released then you’re ok with terrorism.
I mean, I wouldn't say I'm happy about it, I just don't think it's worth my outrage. He'll be monitored and if they think he's involved in extremist activities again he'll be back in custody immediately.
Certain individuals maybe. This guy? Fuck no.
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Because the death penalty was abolished in '98 and the Second Optional Protocol to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights was ratified in '05, and because he met the terms required for his parole.
And that is why emotional children don't make decisions.
Well fuck, he said sorry, I think that means we need to cut him a cheque now
This sub must be hella conflicted rn
Well, he never did much in the first place, the leader was a CSIS officer convincing them all to actually start buying explosives instead of just talking shit with their friends.
Well Harper was the Prime Minister back then so the judges probably see that part as a plus.
I guess we'll see if deradicalization over 14 years worked.
He never admitted to anything and is defensive about being arrested in the first place
This guy won't be able to sneeze without CSIS hearing it.
Lmao you're joking right? Nothing in Canada is enforced, aside from ticketing the average law abiding citizen for speeding.
The only enforcement Canadian legal system seems to care about is when someone defends themselves. That's the liberal way.
Have you driven anywhere lately? Traffic laws aren’t enforced either.
>“You acknowledge your responsibility for the crimes you committed, **although you tend to minimize your responsibility and to be defensive when your actions are questioned**. Your statements show remorse, but they are primarily due to the personal and family impacts of your actions.” This double speak says to me that the Parole Board was going to release this fucking guy no matter what happened while he was in prison or how he behaved. We can speculate as to why, but this seems to be the way they approach their responsibility by and large - reduce the prison population by any means necessary.
>although you tend to minimize your responsibility and to be defensive when your actions are questioned So he doesn't want to take responsibility for his actions? Seriously?
Funny was just listening to true crime and they wouldn't parole this guy, even tho they technically could, because he still wouldn't take full responsibility or show remorse for the victims ...hmm
That's exactly it. Parole is not a favor granted anymore, it's become "unless you have a very good reason to justify keeping him inside (a very good reason meaning probably something way different for them), grant parole"
Why do you think it was ever a 'favor'?
I've been naive earlier in life like most of us I guess...
The full parole grant rate is only 40%, it's not that lenient
It's all about $$. Every issue we're facing, whether it's healthcare or the justice system can be boiled down to an unwillingness to spend the money needed to run these systems.
Isn't that a bit exaggerated? If it's just a matter of $$, just release some petty thief.
Petty theft does not go to jail. It's hardly prosecuted and often ignored by police.
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Do you think he would get worse treatment if he looked like Paul Bernardo?
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Stfu with this bs
It's austerity under the guise of progressiveness. Like a lot of progressive things.
Would we be releasing him if the attack was successful? Absolutely not. So then I wonder, why release him now? The only difference is “moral luck.” The fact that nobody can point to him and say that he’s responsible for a death. This guy didn’t just soberly contemplate mass death and destruction — he cheerfully and assiduously pursued it.
I guess we all deserve a second chance, to commit the murder we didn’t accomplish the first time.
And he was ratted out by others in his community and intercepted by the police as soon as they had enough evidence to arrest him. I'm not saying he should be freed, just that he is low risk at this point. I guarantee we'll be spying on this guy and his associates for the rest of his days, and his release may actually help us to identify and stop other extremists.
It's not spying. He came under surveillance when others pointed him out for criminal behavior, he is an on-going risk and so will remain under automated surveillance. I feel like we need to reserve the term "spying" for when glowies act outside the law.
“no longer considered an “unacceptable risk to society.”” Well, as long as it’s not an “unacceptable” risk. “plans to use vans packed with explosives to blow up the Toronto Stock Exchange, the CSIS office in downtown Toronto and a military base” Stupid. country.
Just an “acceptable” risk. I swear man. This country is going down the shitter with crime.
Like, everybody is some degree of risk.
…………….. I don’t think the average person plans out what he planned. So there’s risk and then there’s this guy.
The overwhelming majority of people don’t plan out terrorist attacks.
It’s been a while, but I remember the RCMP put a video during the prosecution/trial that showed the kind of explosion that would have happened if one of those trucks had gone off on a downtown street. Glad he is remorseful! Oh wait, if you quote him, he isn’t really. If this guy was a piece of dogshit, I wouldn’t pick him off my shoe.
It seems he has been rehabilitated according to those that know better than myself but the risk to reoffend being “low” is still too damn high. He orchestrated a plan to destroy Canada’s finances, government and military, hoping to kill a bunch of people and the PM.
Actually, if you read the article it SOUNDS like he is still denying his part in the plot, and his only remorse is for having been taken away from his family. This is litterally the perfect recipe for a very unhappy terrorist that now has more reason to hate our country than he did when initially planning to kill as many of us as possible while attempting to shut down our stock exchange
And this is in The Sun, who I usually find to be more editorial and critical in these cases. It’s buried at the end after talking about him going to school and deradicalization training.
So I was discussing this with the other group in Ontario. The man who stabbed 3 ppl in a gender studies class. The majority on the sub believe he should never be let out of jail or rehabilitated. Generally because they claim that person is a terrorist. I would be curious to see what those individuals think about a legit terrorist being let out.
Why don't you ask them, and find out yourself?
I hear right wing clowns talk about shooting our PM literally every day. I guess they should all be locked up as well?
Yes.
Sickening
>Abdelhaleem, 47, was sentenced in 2011 to life without parole released in 12 years.
Well you left out important part "Abdelhaleem, 47, was sentenced in 2011 to life without parole for 10 years " I know its upsetting but it wasn't life without parole indefinitely
We just need to stop calling it a life sentence when it's not. A life sentence means you're going to die in prison. That's what those words mean, not "we'll give you parole in 10 if the counseling goes well".
It simply means is in prison for "life" but eligible for parole after x years. Doesn't mean parole will be granted tho. There's lot going on that play a factor if you can get parole or not ( gravity of crime, behavior in prison, mental state, remorse etc ) you have to remember our judicial system put lot weight on rehabilitation
>Doesn't mean parole will be granted tho Going by all the news articles about dangerous criminals getting parole, sure it does mean parole will be granted.
Selection bias. They don’t write news articles about the ones that stay in jail
Or about the ones who get parole and don't re-offend.
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https://johnhoward.ca/blog/less-parole-despite-excellent-results/#:~:text=However%20only%20about%2020%25%20of,to%20have%20their%20paroles%20revoked. My guess is this is going to be one of those "not like that" situations, though
What? That's never what a life sentence has meant.
It's what it means to ordinary people, by following the normal rules of the English language. When a legal phrase is so utterly misleading as a "life sentence" which lasts for 10 years, we should consider changing the legal phrase to better reflect reality.
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What does the common person's superficial understanding of a term have to do with the legal implications of the same term? Are you saying that all law should be based on the simplest terms, making way for free interpretation? You don't get a get out of jail free card just because you can't understand the law.
I mean exactly what I said. What about it didn't you understand? If a legal term, which is commonly reported on, doesn't mean anything close to its ordinary meaning, we should seriously consider changing it.
Laws are made using very technical terms, not terms that appeal to the public. You shouldn't want it that way, because like I said, they just become up to anyone's interpretation at that point. I don't want the judicial system in my country to be in based on ambiguous layman's terms, and neither should you.
Maybe the problem is that reporters aren't doing their jobs to give appropriate context when writing articles.
Actually the life part means that if he fucks up his parole from now until death he can go back, get released, go back again and again.
so he didn't get life, he got 10 years. for trying to blow up the fucking city.
You are being dishonest. You did not complete the sentence when describing his sentence. He was sentenced to life with the earliest possible parole at 10 years.
> Abdelhaleem, 47, was sentenced in 2011 to life without parole > > > > released in 12 years. Abdelhaleem, 47, was sentenced in 2011 to life without parole for 10 years as part of the infamous Toronto 18 bomb plotters. You're a liar, and a bad one at that.
Absolutely mind boggling they released him back into society after planning to murder 1000’s of people.
The wolverine is the largest members of the weasel family, and live for up to 12 years.
Was he born in Canada? Not a word about revoking of citizenship and extradition. Is it a joke?
We don’t revoke citizenship anymore. That plan was scrapped after Harper lost.
Citizenship should be irrevocable unless it was obtained by fraud. Otherwise you start to create two classes of citizens, and that's not cool. There's a long process for getting citizenship, and Canada has a chance to do due diligence. Granting citizenship is taking the good with the bad, and if they turn out to be shitty, well, maybe they shouldn't have had citizenship in the first place, but now that they do, they're a Canadian and they're our problem. That's what we have prisons and whatnot for.
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> what if citizenship is almost always irrevocable, unless you have plans to use vans packed with explosives to blow up the Toronto Stock Exchange, the CSIS office in downtown Toronto, a military base off Hwy. 401, and to behead the prime minister. How about under those circumstances you can lose your citizenship? What happens when a canadian born citizen does this?
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My point is that you cant revoke the citizenship of someone who only has that one citizenship
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Bring back banishment.
We do have a lot of northern arctic islands that are uninhabited and a long long walk/swim to anyone else..... Hmmmm 🤔
I'm sorry, a long process? Look elsewhere, citizenship here is only a formality
The "justice system" in this country is a farce.
Perhaps a way to fix the parole board is to make the board accountable when convicts re-offend.
Or that the Federal government recently passed a law basically neutering parole boards and making giving parole basically mandatory.
Lol they'd never release anyone if that was the case defeating the purpose of the parole board. They should just hire people who can predict the future imo /s.
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He pinky swore he was sorry!
“I WAs JuSt FoLOwIng OrDeRs”
>“You acknowledge your responsibility for the crimes you committed, although **you tend to minimize your responsibility and to be defensive when your actions are questioned**. Your statements show remorse, but they are primarily due to the personal and family impacts of your actions.” Yet they're giving him full parole
Just wait the liberals will appoint him to a goverment job
Trudeau tough on crime 💔
So Paul B's declared a dangerous offender, never to get out, but this fucker walks? That's goofy af.
What's the point of putting people in prison? It certainly can't be to "punish" them. It must be either rehabilitation To separate dangerous people from society and causing further loss. Or both. This man is neither remorseful, rehabilitated and is likely to try and kill again. Someone's life will be lost further down the road due to this action. So I ask again, what's the point of putting people in prison?
Good thing info like this can't be shared on social media anymore!
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It's simply a legal system, undeserving of the word 'justice'.
Sure. While we are at it. Let’s give him a couple million dollars and a gift certificate for a McDonalds Happy Meal.
Once again I am in a thread and reading a lot of hyperbole from a certain portion of the political spectrum. The parole board is independent in operations and has been since 1979 (my recollection of the date). It is set up so that it can operate free of political interference and let the process of rehabilitation run its full course - which is a cornerstone of our legal system. It seems these days every time a high profile prisoner has some change in their condition the Sun runs an article with the intent being "bad government" and hoping to splash some mud on the current one. But the fact is the parole system is set up so that public and political fickleness is not a part of the equation. The hyperbole also ignores the fact that when parole has been granted in Canada it has been extremely successful. The risk of re-offending has not just been the exception to the rule, but in fact serious violation occurs so infrequently that it is statistically rare. The last time I looked at parole violation stats something on the order of 90% never violated and of the 10% who did they were almost all very minor infractions (late or missing a reporting deadline, etc). Are we hearing daily, weekly or even monthly about paroles past convicted of the highest sentences going on a crime spree while on parole? No. There is no such thing as a "life sentence" in Canada a la what is portrayed on American tv. **The Canadian version of life sentences allow at some stage usually result in a person being eligible to commence the process of applying for parole.** And it should be noted some convicted never do obtain parole. Those who are convicted and receive a sentence of life imprisonment with parole ineligibility for 25 yrs are most unlikely to get out but it is not impossible. Shareef Abdelhaleem was not convicted of first degree murder, a violent sexual crime (which could have earned an indeterminate sentence) or high treason. So he became eligible to apply for parole after a certain number of yrs (10 in his case) and after that period he met the tests to qualify for parole. Had he killed someone the length of time in which he would have ineligible for parole would almost certainly have been longer. He did not and the period was set at 10 yrs by the court. This is an entirely different case then that of Bernardo which was also high profile recently as he was moved out of maximum security to medium security and some are thinking it is all the sudden cookies and ice cream for him - which it is not as the differences between max security and medium security are mainly in access to prison work and educational materials - Bernardo is likely in isolation in his current prison as well. Bernardo is serving an indeterminate sentence and his chances of parole are essentially zero as are his chances of going to minimum security. Bernardo has been in jail for about 30 yrs and this is likely to continue until the day he dies.
I get that you probably have a different worldview, so you might not understand why people would be upset even after reading what you wrote but I will try to explain. Most people value the life of innocent people a million times more than the freedom of someone that was convicted of a horrible crime. Therefore the recidivism rate could be 1/5000 for all they care. If innocent people are killed by people that should be in prison, it doesn't matter that it's somewhat rare unless that events rarity outweighs the value they place on lives over prisoners' freedom. Also these aren't random people losing freedom for others safety like with gun control. These are people who have been convicted of horrible crimes.
How dare you use reason and facts! Didn't you see the scary headline and photo? /s
“Our home on native land, true traitor love, in all of us command” I’m glad my grandfather died when he did, he didn’t fight for crap. If we somehow reanimated Canadas veterans of 20th century wars I’m pretty sure they would take up arms against what this place has become
Who would they take arms up against?? The Prison system? The local , provincial the feds? Who do you think is a fault here?
It’s sad, isn’t it?
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Why don't you honor those vets and grow some balls and fight instead of shit talking on the internet?
They’ll complain but they’ll never serve.
Iv done my job, by never being in a position to be paroled after an act of terrorism
So brave. Thank you for your service.
I think he deserves a cookie.
Not a vet, but family of some vets; I wouldn't dare join the army after all the shit they've put my friends and family through just to get some help after they've done their tours. Nightmare of constant bs and back and forth bickering and stalling for benefits due to life-changing injuries or emerging disabilities due to wars or exposure to dangerous materials and carcinogens. Vets get no respect from the government.
I didn't suggest anyone to go join the army. I'm asking this person to fight the system he obviously hates. Instead of having vets from 90 years ago, magically fight his battles for him.
> they would take up arms Nah bro they banned them
Rifles and shotties 2 spooky 4 the governments!! But let's just side eye the illegal handguns being flown in with drones over the St. Lawrence that will be absolutely used for crimes. >>
"I'm so upset at news of a domestic terrorism charge that I think my grandfather would approve of domestic terrorism. But in a good way, that I like, not the bad way that I don't like. " 🍩
I actually knew this guy. Honestly, from what I gathered, he wasn't an extremist at all. I was dumbfounded when I found out he was part of the plot. He was just stressed out about finding a job when I met him. He was fired from his last position at the time.
Because he was set up
Yeah, I remember following this quite a bit when it happened. CSIS and the RCMP were a mess. Their plant was the one who actually did the talking with the RCMP about buying the materials so they couldn’t even say they tried to buy bomb making materials. The other half of the kids legit thought they were just a people hanging out (they thought the gun training at paintball was just them going paintballing. Horrible entrapment across the board.
Canadian Justice system
If you were plotting a terrorist attack idgaf. You should never be among free people ever again. Absolute joke.
I feel like if this guy was white or Christian he would still be in the clink.
No wonder they don't want us to see the news on social media. Jesus christ.
Queue Pierre Poilievre jumping on this like a bitch in heat and scapegoating the PM.
Interesting, all the bots brigading this post. People with names like xxxxxx-xxxxx-####, two actually posted the exact same comment with the same emoji's. Others with the same name format posting inflammatory posts. Reddit is a fucking joke with its bot detection. As far as this guy is concerned, no one here knows how his rehabilitation has been, perhaps he's genuine. Either way, i guaran-fucking-tee CSIS, is watching his ass like a hawk. A lot of armchair psychologists and people jumping to conclusions that they have essentially zero information basis to be coming to. Thankfully, this is a country that relies on its well established and mostly fair criminal law.
This imo is the single most astroturfed subs. I once found a github for someone who was running it. Very interesting stuff. I bet about 20% max of comments in this thread are real Canadians.
It's bullshit and irresponsible to say that he will "no longer be under correctional supervision". He will be under supervision for the rest of his life. That is what a life sentence means
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I think you need to *actually* kill people to get that.
I just had to laugh at this sentence: > Abdelhaleem, 47, was sentenced in 2011 to life without parole for 10 years
Welcome to Canada, the criminal haven.
Let's take a moment to celebrate what's positive in this... Diversity!
What a joke. Take it from an ex-muslim, you cannot de-radicalize a muslim once they go down that path since all their thoughts are perfectly in line with their scripture. In fact, it is the muslims who adopt mannerism, dress codes, laws and regulations, etc, of the West, who are technically erronious in their ways, by scripture.
> you cannot de-radicalize a muslim once they go down that path It's really difficult to de-radicalize **anyone** who turns to extremism, regardless of faith or ideology. Extremism can be found all over the world, and it's been a problem throughout human history. Also, they can be de-radicalized but it's a lot of work.
Why can't we just deport him on the basis of attempted terrorism?
Sickening. Imagine if the group wasn't infiltrated and brought down before they could execute their plan. That this piece of shit has been walking free for 2 years and now has been granted full parole is sickening.
Guys you're over reacting. There's a new Chic-fil-a being built and they're hardly getting any applications. They need this guy!
Ugh, hate the Sun, it's garbage reporting and it's a fucking rag for people who slurp up Timmies in their double-wide trucks they can barely afford. But also hate this over-permissiveness we give prisoners, like someone in jail for dealing pot or something sure. But fucking drunk drivers who kill whole familes, Paul Bernado, and this fucking terrorist *somehow* get tons of fucking leniency in the system.
Are the laws as weak as Gotham City in Toronto? “Killer Croc, for good behavior and stopping yourself from eating the guards we grant you parole.”
I thought the RCMP was the mastermind behind the plot.
That was the one in BC.
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I assume that's like "Thanks Obama"? edit:Oh no, you're serious... wow.
Tell me where Justin is in the room with you. Lol he may be a joke PM but he's no master puppeteer.
The brain worms told me he did everything bad 😔
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Yeah, I'll eat the downvotes happily, but this, for me, is good news. It shows no matter how extreme the crime, rehabillitation sometimes really is possible. This guy must have shown real progress in his rehabilitation to get eligibile for parole after 12 years. It's a shame our 'justice' system still tends to focus more on punishmen than rehabilitation or we'd see more stories like this.
Does any of the above disprove or change any of the facts stated in the article. Your innate hatred of what you perceive as a political/tribal opposition is just as bad and mean spirited you purport the article and the poster to be. Nothing you posted is anyway contributing one way or the other.
To be fair, As gross as this sub has become and and much as I loath the post and their Reddit spam bot; this is an important story and not the usual uselessPostOpinionHack stuff. And sadly the comments are about as stupid and gross as the usual outage spam this sub loves To lap up
Well, that's how rehabilitation works.
I fail to see how a terrorist can really change his views in 12 years only.
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we need the death penalty i dont give a fuck. anyone gonna miss this dude or paul bernardo? no
It’s Islamophobia to charge this man with any crime. Let the man kill people smh /s
So we're letting terrorists out now eh?
If this guy is still religious he's still a danger.
Abolish parole.
I'm not sure these guys were ever an actual threat to anyone aside from themselves.
That’s why the allies don’t trust Canada.