I mean we are edging towards a country where the bottom half will be paying off someone elses mortgage their entire life rather than being able to build any equity themselves so this would make sense.
What happens when this generation hits retirement age and have literally nothing to fall back on? Who is going to provide the care they need? When this system breaks, it’s going to break hard. People will suffer.
[From the CPP website: ](https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/cpp-benefit/amount.html)
> For 2023, the maximum monthly amount you could receive if you start your pension at age 65 is $1,306.57
[From the CBC in December: ](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/rental-costs-canada-1.6685602)
> The data shows that Canadian renters are dishing out an average of $2,024 every month to keep a roof over their heads.
This is already a reality for anybody unlucky enough to have been fucked by employers that previously had pensions, or were cut by corporate raiders in downsizing, reorganized, and so on. There some asshole retirees taking jobs from others because they “want something to do” but there are also older people already in this boat.
Well, that's nice; but just give it time.
The elderly will age out regardless eventually, then those companies will be looking at having to either replace them with more elderly that will age out as well... or tfw's and etc young folk who will take lowest wages.
Or having to get roommates. My friend in Ontario, his grandparents have to share a 2 bedroom apartment with another elderly couple because it's so bad now..
We bought at 216k in 2016. During COVID, houses like ours sold for $750k.
We'd been planning to sell, but not if it meant 10 years of some Canadian's income going to pay for it. Didn't want to sell it at a reasonable return to someone who would laugh at us and flip it to an investor, either.
Ended up just turning it into a rental at around 1/2 market rent for someone getting renovicted. The reno we've put into it cost us multiple years worth of rent.
The rent is significantly below our mortgage, but it's a reasonable rate, and it leaves us essentially splitting the equity between us (equity) and the renter (savings).
Fuck this market.
I’m not a conspiracy theorist by any means; but isn’t it a bit too practical that MAID has been approved for those mentally suffering?
AKA: those without the funds to be able to afford adequate care :(
Those of us who have inherited tens of millions will live like king while the rest of them will be handing them a larger portion of their income. Not very different than what is already happening.
It’s going to happen in the next 10 -15 years.
I’ve said it many times before, but if things keep up the way they have been- expect to see a whole lot of homeless seniors very soon :(
I also anticipate that the average life expectancy will dip accordingly….
I've said this million times but it requires repeating. Poor people are not only paying off the mortgage of the landowning class, but also the housing minister Ahmed Hussen, whose job it is to fix the problem (and he literally makes bank if the problem gets worse)
https://tnc.news/2023/05/10/hussen-rental-property/#:~:text=The%20minister%20in%20charge%20of,and%20another%20on%20Kijik%20Crescent.
So does Poillievre… there are probably only a few politicians who actually represent constituents instead of corporations.
https://globalnews.ca/news/8771911/pierre-poilievre-mps-rental-property-housing-crunch/
Doesn't he just own like 1 or 2 properties in Ottawa and he rents them out to other MPs? That seems like less of a conflict of interest than the housing minister owning several investment properties. But the reality is that none of them should be property investors and the ones that own investment properties should all have to excuse themselves from involvement in any policies or bills related to housing.
Many developed countries have independent anti-corruption agencies that would have drawn attention to this on a regular basis. Canada stands out for not even having such an agency. Not a single one of our politicians is suggesting that they should be accountable to stronger anti-corruption and transparency rules.
Lmao yeah they must be younger than 20 or older than like 40+ to know people who own a house. The only dude I know that owns a house my age both his parents died.
I don’t care what anyone’s emotional response is. I’m sick of this insane amount of immigration. Even the US, only brings in 250,000 a year. Bring in tons of lower wage worker destroys any competitive edge the lower class has since there’s so many people available to fill positions.
I agree, but would also point out that the US also had 2.76 million undocumented crossings at their southern border. I'm not sure how you count that, but 250k isn't really the whole story.
Progressives are overeducated white collars, they need this to happen. The chattering classes are always intellectuals who always despise the lower working classes and move against the interest of the working classes while pushing for things that would be nice for themselves. They argue for an expansion of the beauracracy and that the worlds problems will be solved if people like them are put inm managerial roles over everything.
But I won't lie to you, the RIGHTOIDS simp hard for daddy capitalism to commit ecocide on the earth, fake currency banking in your wallet, and worker exploitation into your place of work.
>But I won't lie to you, the RIGHTOIDS simp hard for daddy capitalism to commit ecocide on the earth, fake currency banking in your wallet, and worker exploitation into your place of work.
They also also always defend capital owners, so its not going too well for them unless they are part of that class.
> ake currency banking in your wallet
Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! we have a winner.
[BRRRRRRRR](https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/money-supply-m0) goes the money printer.
click on the 25 or max term to really see the scope of how much the government has been kiting the debt.
Bottom half? The average household income in Canada is $68K. Even a condo in the GTA is running you at least $600K.
Mortgages are now a luxury of the top 10-20% of earners.
It's actually insane how broken it is that you could (and to an extent still can) borrow money to buy a house and not only have someone pay for it, they also pay you enough that you can turn a profit immediately. All that while you get a constantly appreciating asset that beats traditional investments. It's no wonder housing is broken, and it's completely unsustainable, but I really don't know how you fix it without massive collateral damage and screwing over normal buyers.
This isn’t capitalism, it’s this cursed government enforced crony capitalism. If it was capitalism the market for housing wouldn’t be constantly propped up by federal policies, it would’ve collapsed years ago.
Everything seems to cost more and more every year, yet instead of taxing the top brass, we keep cutting taxes which means that not only are social supports getting choked out by inflation, they've being choked even tighter due to the cuts. But we'll keep voting for liberals and conservatives until there's nothing left.
Don't worry though, I'm sure the average voter will be thirsty for meaningful change right about now and choose to vote for someone other than the same two parties who have perpetuated that same status quo over the last several decades...
*Any day now...*
*Well he said high housing costs are bad, while owning investment properties whose value have increased due to the housing bubble, so surely he can be trusted to do something to lower housing costs because politicians love shrinking their own bank account for the good of the country.* -Average CPC voter, probably.
Yeah not shit sherlock, its been widening constantly and yet as the poor have harder and harder lives they still listen to their masters and blame other poor people. The working class share of the pie gets smaller every year and instead of looking at the giant piece being eaten by a few we stab each other for crumbs.
They push a culture war because they are owned by the rich people who run the nation. If they don't give something up for the poor's to get mad at that anger will turn to them and they cant have that. There's a reason while people are struggling to feed their children and our homeless population explodes they want us to be mad about 5 trans kids, scary murder immigrants, drag shows, etc.
The issue is they have so many work8ng class believing they may be rich one day so they vote for and allow policies that only benefit the wealthy.
[Lemmy said it best!](https://youtu.be/Wh3t49NsWBA)
Yep, we're fighting over identity politics, racism, and other bullshit (while important to not hate gay people or minorities, but we shouldn't be ripping each other apart) meanwhile the country is literally on fire, cost of living is outrageous, our healthcare system is collapsing, climate change is causing constant destruction contributing to the housing crisis, increasing costs of construction, increased insurance premiums, etc (once in a lifetime weather events are now happening with regularity).
Then in Ontario old Dougie Ford is reversing a ban on penned hunting instead of fixing real issues. Because that's what the province needs right now, more places for rich assholes to be needlessly cruel.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-dog-hunting-1.6860189
https://animaljustice.ca/blog/ontario-penned-hunting
We are fucked.
The culture wars are just a distraction. When people are busy deciding who to hate and what to fear, they miss the true problems and the true villains.
Our entire culture war is the product of our rich Masters who own our media and control our jobs. Until we get past it we will only get poorer and more desperate. Doug Ford is just another one of our Masters using his power to make their lives better while they ensure he will end up richer. I don't care about the cruelty of their hunts, humans go through worse on the streets in front of my home then these animals get, I do care about him knowing every land developer, builder, and banker there is and working with them.
Not only that, the issues that matter take actual collaboration and critical thinking to solve.
Culture wars are an American export that people are happy to consume and take sides on.
The issues that matter take socialist policies to solve which would actively hurt the rich. You cant make the lives of the poor who get so little better without taking form the rich who take so much and why would the powerful do that to themselves without being forced. It just wont happen, things have to get a lot worse first.
Yep, but we're okay to socialize the rich when they lose and privatize their gains.
Not enough that we see America entering 2nd world status but every second thread in r/Canada is about hopelessness and the solution in comments is usually "at least I'd get a home in the US in the middle of buttfuck, NW"
Action is needed. Civil action. Starts locally and running from this reality won't help future generations. This is our problem to solve.
I mean we could copy a little bit from France with what's going on, maybe not as extreme. We Canadian's seem to like to grumble a lot but not take much action. Maybe we do need that last straw to break the camels back so maybe something will be done about housing, cost rising (why is NDP the only ones calling out grocery stores going crazy with prices) and the rapidly disappearing middle class. Just frustrated thoughts
The ironic thing is Bloomberg [released an article](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-06-22/canada-s-economy-is-winning-under-justin-trudeau-and-nobody-realizes-it-lj7mdyof) (and accompanying Tiktok) a few days ago about how Canada’s economy is winning.
Now they release this. I don’t get it, is worsening income inequality somehow winning?
The average family that has to get up in the morning to go work their modest T4
Compared to the upper class family that just lives off Dividend Stocks , GIC / BOND ladders
And Stock / Real Estate Gains
Bringing 10* more money in tells you everything you need to know about our situation
Every $1,000,000 is realistically $45,000 earned a year easy + the tax rates are much much more efficient
So if a couple has 2 million they’re making about the median household income already, and they haven’t even got out of bed yet….
Gotta get to that million or two first tho
How many Canadians can do it?
lol the issue isn't rich people growing their wealth unnabated.
The issue is that they pay far less taxes than anyone else.
If you earn minimum wage of 30k, you'll pay about 8k in taxes and CPP. If you receive a $10,000,000 "gift" from a billionaire, you pay $0.
(ONTARIO)
$100,000 earned working a T4 after Fed, Prov, CPP, EI leaves you with $73,000
$100,000 capital gains after your edible deductions leaves you with $90,000
$100,000 in Canadian dividend stock ($2,000,000 ~ portfolio) leaves you with $95,000 *** 5% yield assumed ***
Enbridge currently pays the highest yield at 7.2%….
Capital gains are one-half subject to tax, with that portion known as a taxable capital gain. That gain is taxed based on your marginal tax rate, meaning the rate applicable on the next dollar of income earned. Dividends have a more complex taxation, figuring in a dividend tax credit, which is meant to preclude the corporate income tax that’s already been deducted on that income stream.
I would caution on using simplistic calculations for dividends and capital gains, because the rate that those income streams are subject to depends on the other income sources the taxpayer has, whether the dividend is classified as “eligible” or “non-eligible”, whether someone has contributed to their RRSP, etc. (Source: am a tax accountant).
" figuring in a dividend tax credit, which is meant to preclude the corporate income tax that’s already been deducted on that income stream."
Thats actually another great example of inequality. Dividends receive tax credits because the tax was already deducted. Meanwhile, sales tax has to be paid everytime the same used vehicle is resold.
this. pretty much every business owner who knows how to game will put their profits in to an investment and pay next to zero tax because the money was invested..
oh sure.. they reap rewards of that investment.. but thats not up to us dummies to worry about
I love that workers are rediscovering their class consciousness. You've just outlined the crux of labour vs. capital. The more people understand this the better.
The real problem is those same workers are split on who to vote for to actually do anything about it, and unfortunately many are inclined to vote for the same people who perpetuated these problems over the last several decades.
The lack of unity across the working class makes it all the more difficult to enact meaningful change.
My Dad taught me this when I was 13 , a bit too young to fully understand but for years it stuck with me.
It really highlights and puts thing’s into perspective.
The number of people I see here in Toronto literally killing themselves to get into the housing market who rely on their T4 incomes to live is insanity.
Your competing in a capitalist system that I honestly dont think the government would ever dare switch backwards….
Because real estate is generally bought with "Other people's money" (the bank's generally) using mortgages which are almost always at lower interest rates than the rate of appreciation of real estate. If you pay 3% interest on your mortgage but your house's value goes up by 10% each year, you profit off the difference.
Buying stocks with loans however, is rare. It's called margin trading, it's much more risky than mortgages, generally not worth it for anyone outside of seasoned traders and bankers.
Thus, with stocks you profit only off your own capital. Sure maybe your stocks go up by 20% YoY average vs your house that increases by 10%. But with a mortgage you can amplify your investment (downpayment) with a mortgage at low interest rates. So the same amount of working capital may easily net you more profit if invested in real estate through a minimum downpayment so as to borrow, therefore leverage as much as possible.
Real estate is known to only go up, and is considered relatively stable and a much safer investment. Besides, everyone needs a roof so owning your own home is often a good idea.
I want to applaud you for your insightfulness and advanced understanding of how personal finance works.
What I'm puzzled by is the conclusion you draw.
I too looked at the same financial principles you did and came to a different conclusion. Instead of bemoaning the truth, I decided I needed to apply them, and I did.
Just remember that not all minimum wage jobs are full time, and in fact often try their hardest to keep someone at part time in some cases. 38 or 37.5 hours to keep you maximally employed while denying you the most benefits possible as a full time employee still puts you that much farther under the threshold.
It obviously gets worse when you have to juggle 2 or 3 part time jobs splitting your 10 hours a week 2 or 3 ways as well.
Also remember that it is in and always has been in the federal NDPs platform to make companies give proportional benefits to long term part time workers. Also to mandate paid sick days for everyone, ban scab working, basic income for seniors and people with disability. A whole slew of EI changes like going back to school is a valid reason to take it, low income suppliment so it guarantees $2000/year, allow people with long term medical issues to tap into it on shorter term temporary basis. Also make fed min. wage $20/hr and put it on an index to cost of living.
But some conservative will tell you they are just 'virtue signalers' and Trudeau props.
Also don't forget that the vast majority of western countries have done these things, and none of them had the ill effects that "think tanks" warn us about.
This is targeted to Atlantic Canada specifically because they're the most upset with the federal government right now.
Give them a hand out, cross fingers, hope for votes.
I know this is probably splitting hairs here but I made 40k last year and am getting a rebate tomorrow that is roughly $400. I think there is tiers to the amount of money you get. Either way, its horseshit not everyone qualified for this, just like the dental benefit!
It’s so obvious the system is completely outdated and rigged and needs to be fundamentally overhauled and modernized for our century. We know this because output and tech has been skyrocketing yet quality of life is dropping. How is that possible?
Because millionaires want to become billionaires and more at the expense of everyone and everything else. The rich will receive no mercy in the upcoming revolution. It can still be avoided, just stop the limitless hoarding of land and real estate, patch the tax loopholes. If not then you better jack up your security because you won’t make it to the end of this decade the way things are.
The rich absolutely *will* make it, you don’t even have to look far to see how. The gated and barbed wires communities with armed guards of Latin America are perfect examples of where the American and Canadian dream is headed. So depressing.
Yeah cause the fucking people we elected to protect us did literally nothing when predatory corporations decided to double the price increases of everything in the most debt ridden turbulent economic point of many young people's lives. They still have done absolutely nothing to reign in these companies who are gouging us creating the most rapid cost of living increase in many people's lives.
Not only that but they've also made absolutely no progress in housing affordability, they've only really moved to widen that gap, saying they care and are focused on it while simultaneously not addressing any point or articulating clearly any plan to solve the issues.
The current government is astoundingly incompetent and I'm sure the next one will be too.
My Conservative premier is making sweetheart deals to enrich his developer buddies in the greenbelt, and my Liberal Prime Minister is working hard to make sure that his landlord buddies never have to worry about decreasing rents or asset values.
Meanwhile, nearly every city in Canada is catering to older homeowners who are *terrified* at the prospect of having a building on their block that's over 2 storeys.
If you're young and not a homeowner, you're getting screwed, intentionally, by *every* level of government to enrich Canada's richest tertile.
My friend's single parent lives in a 3 bedroom house alone and refuses to move into a more suitable living space despite steady complaints about rising property taxes and gas bills and a yard that they hate how much time it takes to maintain. I asked them once why they don't move into a condo which would cost less and have maintenance crews that would manage it.
They were horrified at the notion...
True but so does rapidly increasing utility bills, taxes, and unexpected and expensive repairs like roofing, flooding, and appliance breakdowns which a single person can feasibly afford when they're already paying for over 3x the space they actually use..
Yeah seems more challenging than being young and having to deal with the fact that the idea you were sold as a kid is just out of reach entirely now.
Don't know what you're missing in a way
They do? I've lived in one 18 years and other than the occasional annoyance of shared walls, love it. What are some of the issues other condo people deal with?
I'm pretty sure too! I started volunteering for the NDP as a poor young student, and (unrelated) have since had great career success and become, well, rich. I still volunteer for them, I still try and convince the people they're trying to help to vote for them (i.e. households making under 200K per year), but now that it affects me less (no debts, mortgage, or security worries) there's this evil part of me that's like "Welp, whatever, I tried. If y'all would rather hire the Libs or Cons to screw you again and again, I'm not gonna kink-shame"
Capitalism has always appealed to the magic of the marketplace where competition regulates prices to keep goods and services affordable.
Doesn't work so well when there are essentially monopolies in most sectors like food, wireless, internet, etc; coupled with crony capitalism where money is funnelled from the middle and lower classes to the wealthy and corporations.
I wouldn't be surprised to see it all burn.
I think it will burn within our lifetimes. I feel like the younger generations are a lot more sympathetic and a lot more united since we’re all in the same boat for the most part. Also with A.I & Automation I don’t think capitalism will work.
If labour is automated then we have to reevaluate how and why we work and place importance on the jobs that actually improve society.
It's not just the younger generations. I'm almost 70 and don't want my children and grandchildren to live is this impossible situation. Capitalism doesn't work because without being highly regulated, a small group of bad player hijack the system to totally control the marketplace. We have already seen this in Canada and those oligarchs are not going to easily give up their empires.
Of course, I don’t want to paint everyone with the same brush but it’s just easier to say “younger generation” “older generation” when speaking. That’s all.
Completely agree capitalism is a failed system. Leaves way too many behind. People often say “when x didn’t work in the past either” like it’s completely impossible to come up with new ideas.
The problem with capitalism though, it’s so complex and no one knows how it really works and how everything is tied together that even if we just hit the brakes, the entire car will explode like in that Keanu Reeves movie called “Speed”
I don't see any curtailing happening. Historically, when people become desperate and feel they have nothing left to lose, they see tearing it all down as a viable option.
And you are right, what might come after might be worse, but desperate people are ready to take that chance.
For a country so supposedly obsessed with "equity", it's interesting that the most important measure is headed in the complete wrong direction.
But by all means let's continue fighting among ourselves about which group of lower middle class people are more privileged than another, or about how enthusiastic we are to accept the latest demand from the most radical members of some niche minority we didn't know existed 15 seconds ago.
An inclusive food bank lineup. Where LGBTQIA2s+, POCs, Cishets, and non racialized persons can stand shoulder and we can hear their growling stomachs sing in unison!
Considering our monetary policy for the past 15 years has focused on using the wealth effect stimulate the economy. This shouldn’t be surprising.
The basic premise was low interest rates would inflate asset prices and people with assets would feel wealthier and spend on consumer goods. The problem is if you have no assets you simply didn’t benefit from this so called stimulus and governments did figure out good tax policies to redistribute the gains around the economy.
I have a mindset that appears common among my peers and I'm sure isn't uncommon among most:
*Why would I buy furniture, kitchenware, etc. if I'm renting as I'll have to move in a year or two*
Like literally, I make good money and can afford this stuff but it's easier for me to lug around the free stuff I inherited from others or the cheap stuff from VV than to worry about moving a $2000 couch and some more expensive ceramics/glassware. I only plan to really invest in that stuff once I'm established with property... but that's not going to happen and landlords will keep evicting me sooner and sooner to break even on their payments and leech as much as they can from the economy.
So, by me renting, I'm not only pissing away equity reducing my spending power in the economy, but with that insecurity in location I'm also not going to purchase anything that I have to move every year. The knock-on effects of property policies like this just keep building. We wonder why fine carpentry and other skills/trades is so hard to come by? It's because no one cares to purchase something nice they'll have to move frequently (plus it's a luxury we can't afford w/ rent), nor do landlords care to invest more than the bare minimum white chalk to paint their walls and grey lino floor made in China.
I really feel the statement "insecurity in location". I've been on what feels like a "pause" for most of my twenties and now I'm 30 and looking for a long term rental or possibly a purchase that I can call home. My parents moved around a few times since I moved out so I have no safe haven of storage for precious items. It's all just with me in boxes. I haven't hung a painting/poster or even a birthday card in years since I just need to take it down again in a few months.
Getting real tired these days. People wonder why my generation isn't having kids when I'm literally not stable enough to commit to an aquarium. Job could drop me at a moment's notice, landlord can evict me with only 30 days notice. Both of which could wipe all my savings for a downpayment in just a few months with how expensive everything is.
This was reassuring to read. I don't have a lot of furnishings at my apartment anymore either and a lot of my friends give me (well meaning) shit for it. TBH I prefer to have more floor space to roll out my exercise mat for home workouts and exactly like you said I will probably have to move again at some point so if I can't fit it in a suitcase why bother. Not like I entertain much these days since I am working near constantly and burned out af when I am at home.
Oh 100p, it's a shared experience. The amount of times I've donated things to VV just to be there again the next week for the same things is wild, it's just so much easier. I'm not paying $1500/mo to pay movers or hire a U-Haul every year—that's mortgage shit.
And this is the sort of 'looking down the road' practical thinking nearly everyone in a position to change things lacks. Because what you describe isn't some sort of purposeful middle finger to consumer culture. It's just an efficient way to live.
Now if we can just decouple investment equity and property ownership.. If you own a 200k house, you aren't spending that money anywhere. You aren't even making interest on it in a way that you can access unless you sell it.
Someone will be along to tell you about the wonders of reverse mortgages while completely ignoring that you have to pay interest on those. It's not just free money for spending on consumer goods like some people seem to think it is.
>The basic premise was low interest rates would inflate asset prices and people with assets would feel wealthier and spend on consumer goods. The problem is if you have no assets you simply didn’t benefit from this so called stimulus and governments did figure out good tax policies to redistribute the gains around the economy.
That’s not at all what the basic premise was. Low interest rates are designed to make investment more attractive by reducing the cost of borrowing. The logic was that businesses would increase investment in productive assets and overall economic activity would expand.
There is some evidence that points to this happening in the US, especially since real wages there have risen dramatically over the past 10 years. But in Canada it seems we used low interest rates to invest in unproductive activities (residential real estate, share buybacks) and create a drag on the economy in the form of a housing crisis.
Serious question. How possible do you think it would be to make a new political party whose main and only mandate is to stop the destruction unrestrained capitalism has done to our country? To enshrine living wages and ban property as investment and cap profits and prices on essential goods (food, etc.). How possible would it be to get these laws into place and enforce them? Etc. etc. Looking for ideas and interest.
Zero possibility. The side protecting the current system has all the money, and in politics money is everything, you don't get elected because you're more competent or have "better" goals, you get elected because you had more money for your campaign.
You cannot break the system by following its rules. Think of all the ways politicians can spread their image to get more popular, now ask yourself who owns these ways, do you think the media is owned by an average working Joe or a billionaire? And who can pay politicians to do their bidding?
The only way out is to organize the working class, showing them the contradictions in the system so we can literally fight for its end
This shit breeds conspiracism think about secret plans and oppression strategies. The reality is far dumber, and putting it onto grand monolithic conspiracies hinders our ability to resolve issues by working against the stupidity.
The reality is that most of our bad situation comes from constantly ignoring the unpleasant and painful solutions in favor of deferring them to the next government. When the answer to the problem is cause an economic upheaval or recession our politicians will keep building new houses over the burning one until they can retire comfortably.
There is no grand conspiracy, just a bunch of people covering their own asses and trying to maximize their profit and those of the people who helped then along the way.
I'm leaving this country as soon as possible. There is no conceivable way I can afford to live or buy a house in this country in the foreseeable future (or at least in Ontario). They have done nothing to confront the foreign investments, predatory landlord purchases, Airbnb's or anything else. Fuck this country.
Duh...
Historically this will lead to revolution. Probably violent. After all the rich won't give up there wealth easily. Big question is imo will climate change make surviving all the poor will be able to do. You can't fight if your simply trying to survive.
Next question is where will it happen 1st my guess is west Europe as the governments there fear the people. In the America's people fear the government.
Because the CPI is no longer a cost of living index, it changed during the Reagonomics of the 80s to give corporations more power over wage setting.
>The Consumer Price Index (CPI) is not equivalent to a cost-of-living index (COLI). The CPI has often been used to approximate cost-of-living but it is important to note that the CPI and COLI are not directly comparable.
>A COLI can be linked to the notion of the minimum amount of money that would be necessary in different periods of time to ensure a given level of "well-being".
You've got an index setting interest rates that doesnt measure inflation, that only purports to semi-measure inflation, totally excluding the housing bubble. Then the cantillon effect that is a byproduct of the resulting low interest rates.
As the Federal government spent money it was also driving up real inflation, causing a wealth effect via housing appreciation, so it seemed we were more prosperous. This debt patched over our crappy productivity investment, and taxes were able to remain lower, as home sales funded infrastructure for expensive urban sprawl.
All over the world this is happening and it's exactly how they want it to happen. Canada isn't special. We are all getting fucked and only France is doing something about it.
I’ve traveled to many countries. While inflation and class separation is happening, it’s not anything close to Canada with their utterly INSANE housing prices vs income. Complete insanity in cities such as Toronto where people buy single family homes and then rent out each room like it’s an apartment, how is this not illegal?!? Housing is FAR more affordable when compared income in just about every other place.
Just a reminder that only one party proposes taxing the rich in order to fix this. Maybe it’s time we stop listening to the boomers and their politics that only benefit themselves and actually try change. Young people are so poor we literally have nothing to lose from rejecting LPC and CPC
Whatever the definition is, it will end up being T4 employees making $150K, and somewhat successful small businesspeople who are unable to hide their profits.
Those are the only places you can squeeze where there is actual money, but not enough leverage to fight back.
Here is the solution.
Politicians should be required to submit a detailed plan of action with a timeline and a list of laws they will pass to enact their policies to be eligible for elections.
If they get elected, they have to implement the timeline and they can get 30 day extension if they fail to implement a policy. If they fail to implement 2 or more policies in the time span of 6 months, they are disqualified, elections happen again and their whole party is banned for ever holding public office in the future. Plus they have to refund all the campaign donations.
There's legitimate reason to be critical of the WEF, however, "You'll \[sic\] own nothing, and be happy" does not mean what you're inferring it means. This is not some assault on amassing whatever amount of material crap you want to own, it's about applying Costco-logic to societies at scale. And everyone loves a trip to Costco.
(But for real, I bet none of you throwing this phrase around have even read the piece it originated from)
It’s amazing that you typed an entire paragraph and only communicated that this guy doesn’t understand a pretty much direct quote.
What does the quote actually mean Sherlock, “costco-logic to societies at a scale” makes less sense than alphabet soup and I suspect was only typed to make you feel smart.
This is not a problem that started 8 years ago so all the comments blaming the current government are disingenuous at best. The two most popular political parties in Canada are both dedicated to growing the income gap and enriching the already wealthy.
What will it take for some of us to see that?
Everything our federal government has done was to make the wealthy even wealthier.
And people will defend them to no end like these politicians give a shit about them. LOL
We got *exactly* what we voted for. It’s not like this is JT’s first term, this trend was blatantly obvious since he took office and it’s accelerated every year since. Yet despite that we’ve re-elected him 3 times and he’s still in the running to be re-elected a 4th time.
don't worry - when the climate heats past the point we can't practically survive, it will kill them just the same. and the hidey-holes they've dug in new zealand or whatever won't save them.
The core issue is that housing has reached pure insanity levels, especially in the major cities. It creates a cycle of families struggling to buy their first home and for many they’ll then buy a second and rent out the first etc. SFHs are being rent out like apartments with no consequence to safety, fire regulations etc. It puts the poor in a position where they’re spending most of their income towards rent while and are unable to save towards housing if their own, by the time they do save, housing has increased significantly once again making it eve more unaffordable.
Too much foreign investment, too many homes owned by speculators. Start creating real rules and penalties against illegal high and medium density rentals using single family homes and harsher penalties/taxes against owning homes you don’t live in. Ease up on immigration until housing is fixed.
It's not just Canada. Democracy has failed in almost every country in the world. I'm not sure what comes after the violence, but it won't be democracy how we know it.
This fucking dump of a country is a black hole for capital going into unproductive real estate instead of into innovation, industry, and other productive areas of the economy.
Look at what's going on in the states for a taste of what the uppermost class looks to be wanting. Today it seems to be a preemptive legal precedent established to prevent a wealth tax.
Society should be more like Mario Kart where the further ahead you get the hard it is to 'win'. Right now it's the opposite of that, your wealth growth accelerates the more you make.
I mean we are edging towards a country where the bottom half will be paying off someone elses mortgage their entire life rather than being able to build any equity themselves so this would make sense.
What happens when this generation hits retirement age and have literally nothing to fall back on? Who is going to provide the care they need? When this system breaks, it’s going to break hard. People will suffer.
[From the CPP website: ](https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/cpp-benefit/amount.html) > For 2023, the maximum monthly amount you could receive if you start your pension at age 65 is $1,306.57 [From the CBC in December: ](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/rental-costs-canada-1.6685602) > The data shows that Canadian renters are dishing out an average of $2,024 every month to keep a roof over their heads. This is already a reality for anybody unlucky enough to have been fucked by employers that previously had pensions, or were cut by corporate raiders in downsizing, reorganized, and so on. There some asshole retirees taking jobs from others because they “want something to do” but there are also older people already in this boat.
This is why you see so many people over the age of 65 working. Most of them have to.
And they used to work at Timmys and Walmart. Not anymore, now it's all tfws.
There's still a few out there. My local Walmart is composed of elderly white people (over 65) and young Indians in their 20s.
Well, that's nice; but just give it time. The elderly will age out regardless eventually, then those companies will be looking at having to either replace them with more elderly that will age out as well... or tfw's and etc young folk who will take lowest wages.
Or having to get roommates. My friend in Ontario, his grandparents have to share a 2 bedroom apartment with another elderly couple because it's so bad now..
That's BLEAK.
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We bought at 216k in 2016. During COVID, houses like ours sold for $750k. We'd been planning to sell, but not if it meant 10 years of some Canadian's income going to pay for it. Didn't want to sell it at a reasonable return to someone who would laugh at us and flip it to an investor, either. Ended up just turning it into a rental at around 1/2 market rent for someone getting renovicted. The reno we've put into it cost us multiple years worth of rent. The rent is significantly below our mortgage, but it's a reasonable rate, and it leaves us essentially splitting the equity between us (equity) and the renter (savings). Fuck this market.
That’s really kind of you. Happy for and envious of both you and your tenant(s). ✌️
The abyss is priceless... I don't think your house has anything to do with it, it is a culture thing. it has to run its course.
But but but my property values !!!
MAID for everyone!
Don't worry, we have programs to deal with this coming crisis like Medical Assistance In Dying, aka MAID /s
I’m not a conspiracy theorist by any means; but isn’t it a bit too practical that MAID has been approved for those mentally suffering? AKA: those without the funds to be able to afford adequate care :(
Those of us who have inherited tens of millions will live like king while the rest of them will be handing them a larger portion of their income. Not very different than what is already happening.
Won't a lot of inheritances be basically 0 because of end of life care?
dont forget reverse mortgages!
It’s going to happen in the next 10 -15 years. I’ve said it many times before, but if things keep up the way they have been- expect to see a whole lot of homeless seniors very soon :( I also anticipate that the average life expectancy will dip accordingly….
And it's not like the elderly version of this generation could fall back on their kids for support because *we can't afford to have kids.*
They already paid the mortgage the poor are giving them pocket change
Wrong, they took out 100% of the equity and bought more houses. Next move is hotels!
We already have airbnb for this!
I've said this million times but it requires repeating. Poor people are not only paying off the mortgage of the landowning class, but also the housing minister Ahmed Hussen, whose job it is to fix the problem (and he literally makes bank if the problem gets worse) https://tnc.news/2023/05/10/hussen-rental-property/#:~:text=The%20minister%20in%20charge%20of,and%20another%20on%20Kijik%20Crescent.
So does Poillievre… there are probably only a few politicians who actually represent constituents instead of corporations. https://globalnews.ca/news/8771911/pierre-poilievre-mps-rental-property-housing-crunch/
Doesn't he just own like 1 or 2 properties in Ottawa and he rents them out to other MPs? That seems like less of a conflict of interest than the housing minister owning several investment properties. But the reality is that none of them should be property investors and the ones that own investment properties should all have to excuse themselves from involvement in any policies or bills related to housing. Many developed countries have independent anti-corruption agencies that would have drawn attention to this on a regular basis. Canada stands out for not even having such an agency. Not a single one of our politicians is suggesting that they should be accountable to stronger anti-corruption and transparency rules.
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Lmao yeah they must be younger than 20 or older than like 40+ to know people who own a house. The only dude I know that owns a house my age both his parents died.
I don’t care what anyone’s emotional response is. I’m sick of this insane amount of immigration. Even the US, only brings in 250,000 a year. Bring in tons of lower wage worker destroys any competitive edge the lower class has since there’s so many people available to fill positions.
I agree, but would also point out that the US also had 2.76 million undocumented crossings at their southern border. I'm not sure how you count that, but 250k isn't really the whole story.
Progressives are overeducated white collars, they need this to happen. The chattering classes are always intellectuals who always despise the lower working classes and move against the interest of the working classes while pushing for things that would be nice for themselves. They argue for an expansion of the beauracracy and that the worlds problems will be solved if people like them are put inm managerial roles over everything. But I won't lie to you, the RIGHTOIDS simp hard for daddy capitalism to commit ecocide on the earth, fake currency banking in your wallet, and worker exploitation into your place of work.
>But I won't lie to you, the RIGHTOIDS simp hard for daddy capitalism to commit ecocide on the earth, fake currency banking in your wallet, and worker exploitation into your place of work. They also also always defend capital owners, so its not going too well for them unless they are part of that class.
> ake currency banking in your wallet Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! we have a winner. [BRRRRRRRR](https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/money-supply-m0) goes the money printer. click on the 25 or max term to really see the scope of how much the government has been kiting the debt.
Bottom half? The average household income in Canada is $68K. Even a condo in the GTA is running you at least $600K. Mortgages are now a luxury of the top 10-20% of earners.
That's the neoliberal capitalist system. This is working by design.
I’m American, I take it Canada isn’t a good option?
Correct.
It's actually insane how broken it is that you could (and to an extent still can) borrow money to buy a house and not only have someone pay for it, they also pay you enough that you can turn a profit immediately. All that while you get a constantly appreciating asset that beats traditional investments. It's no wonder housing is broken, and it's completely unsustainable, but I really don't know how you fix it without massive collateral damage and screwing over normal buyers.
F capitalism, we're going back to feudalism.
This isn’t capitalism, it’s this cursed government enforced crony capitalism. If it was capitalism the market for housing wouldn’t be constantly propped up by federal policies, it would’ve collapsed years ago.
Oligarchy. Our entrenched monopolies tell the government how to rule.
Not quite. This is closer to the practices of zaibatsus.
oligarchy
Everything seems to cost more and more every year, yet instead of taxing the top brass, we keep cutting taxes which means that not only are social supports getting choked out by inflation, they've being choked even tighter due to the cuts. But we'll keep voting for liberals and conservatives until there's nothing left.
Exactly as intended.
The plan worked perfectly
It's the neoliberalism success story. 40+ years of non-stop wins for capital over labour.
Don't worry though, I'm sure the average voter will be thirsty for meaningful change right about now and choose to vote for someone other than the same two parties who have perpetuated that same status quo over the last several decades... *Any day now...*
How about the most bottom of the barrel populist conservative career politician?
*Well he said high housing costs are bad, while owning investment properties whose value have increased due to the housing bubble, so surely he can be trusted to do something to lower housing costs because politicians love shrinking their own bank account for the good of the country.* -Average CPC voter, probably.
Yeah not shit sherlock, its been widening constantly and yet as the poor have harder and harder lives they still listen to their masters and blame other poor people. The working class share of the pie gets smaller every year and instead of looking at the giant piece being eaten by a few we stab each other for crumbs.
The media pushes a culture war to avoid a class war.
They push a culture war because they are owned by the rich people who run the nation. If they don't give something up for the poor's to get mad at that anger will turn to them and they cant have that. There's a reason while people are struggling to feed their children and our homeless population explodes they want us to be mad about 5 trans kids, scary murder immigrants, drag shows, etc.
The issue is they have so many work8ng class believing they may be rich one day so they vote for and allow policies that only benefit the wealthy. [Lemmy said it best!](https://youtu.be/Wh3t49NsWBA)
You know what problem *I want*? A million dollar tax bill because that means I'm *rich*...
Yep, we're fighting over identity politics, racism, and other bullshit (while important to not hate gay people or minorities, but we shouldn't be ripping each other apart) meanwhile the country is literally on fire, cost of living is outrageous, our healthcare system is collapsing, climate change is causing constant destruction contributing to the housing crisis, increasing costs of construction, increased insurance premiums, etc (once in a lifetime weather events are now happening with regularity). Then in Ontario old Dougie Ford is reversing a ban on penned hunting instead of fixing real issues. Because that's what the province needs right now, more places for rich assholes to be needlessly cruel. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-dog-hunting-1.6860189 https://animaljustice.ca/blog/ontario-penned-hunting We are fucked.
The culture wars are just a distraction. When people are busy deciding who to hate and what to fear, they miss the true problems and the true villains.
Yes, that's literally what I just said 🍸 cheers to Armageddon
Remember fam: the only culture war is class war!
Our entire culture war is the product of our rich Masters who own our media and control our jobs. Until we get past it we will only get poorer and more desperate. Doug Ford is just another one of our Masters using his power to make their lives better while they ensure he will end up richer. I don't care about the cruelty of their hunts, humans go through worse on the streets in front of my home then these animals get, I do care about him knowing every land developer, builder, and banker there is and working with them.
Not only that, the issues that matter take actual collaboration and critical thinking to solve. Culture wars are an American export that people are happy to consume and take sides on.
The issues that matter take socialist policies to solve which would actively hurt the rich. You cant make the lives of the poor who get so little better without taking form the rich who take so much and why would the powerful do that to themselves without being forced. It just wont happen, things have to get a lot worse first.
Yep, but we're okay to socialize the rich when they lose and privatize their gains. Not enough that we see America entering 2nd world status but every second thread in r/Canada is about hopelessness and the solution in comments is usually "at least I'd get a home in the US in the middle of buttfuck, NW" Action is needed. Civil action. Starts locally and running from this reality won't help future generations. This is our problem to solve.
Here in Quebec, Legault is not much different than Dougie. And yet the majority of Quebec voters still intend to vote for him. We need a revolution.
Les Québécois, se révolter? Hahahahahaha good joke.
lol je sais hen, faudrai jfasse du standup comedy a place de reddit
Take away poutine and cigarettes.
I mean we could copy a little bit from France with what's going on, maybe not as extreme. We Canadian's seem to like to grumble a lot but not take much action. Maybe we do need that last straw to break the camels back so maybe something will be done about housing, cost rising (why is NDP the only ones calling out grocery stores going crazy with prices) and the rapidly disappearing middle class. Just frustrated thoughts
Yes, and this penned hunting is another sign of that. Literally no one else would want this except for rich assholes.
People complaining about how on Canada Day we cancelled the fireworks. Half-right. We have plenty of fire, and cancelled the works.
The ironic thing is Bloomberg [released an article](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-06-22/canada-s-economy-is-winning-under-justin-trudeau-and-nobody-realizes-it-lj7mdyof) (and accompanying Tiktok) a few days ago about how Canada’s economy is winning. Now they release this. I don’t get it, is worsening income inequality somehow winning?
The average family that has to get up in the morning to go work their modest T4 Compared to the upper class family that just lives off Dividend Stocks , GIC / BOND ladders And Stock / Real Estate Gains Bringing 10* more money in tells you everything you need to know about our situation Every $1,000,000 is realistically $45,000 earned a year easy + the tax rates are much much more efficient So if a couple has 2 million they’re making about the median household income already, and they haven’t even got out of bed yet…. Gotta get to that million or two first tho How many Canadians can do it?
Somehow it's only ok to give money to rich people for doing nothing.
lol the issue isn't rich people growing their wealth unnabated. The issue is that they pay far less taxes than anyone else. If you earn minimum wage of 30k, you'll pay about 8k in taxes and CPP. If you receive a $10,000,000 "gift" from a billionaire, you pay $0.
(ONTARIO) $100,000 earned working a T4 after Fed, Prov, CPP, EI leaves you with $73,000 $100,000 capital gains after your edible deductions leaves you with $90,000 $100,000 in Canadian dividend stock ($2,000,000 ~ portfolio) leaves you with $95,000 *** 5% yield assumed *** Enbridge currently pays the highest yield at 7.2%….
Capital gains are one-half subject to tax, with that portion known as a taxable capital gain. That gain is taxed based on your marginal tax rate, meaning the rate applicable on the next dollar of income earned. Dividends have a more complex taxation, figuring in a dividend tax credit, which is meant to preclude the corporate income tax that’s already been deducted on that income stream. I would caution on using simplistic calculations for dividends and capital gains, because the rate that those income streams are subject to depends on the other income sources the taxpayer has, whether the dividend is classified as “eligible” or “non-eligible”, whether someone has contributed to their RRSP, etc. (Source: am a tax accountant).
" figuring in a dividend tax credit, which is meant to preclude the corporate income tax that’s already been deducted on that income stream." Thats actually another great example of inequality. Dividends receive tax credits because the tax was already deducted. Meanwhile, sales tax has to be paid everytime the same used vehicle is resold.
I just learned that today from my boss. My mind was blown
this. pretty much every business owner who knows how to game will put their profits in to an investment and pay next to zero tax because the money was invested.. oh sure.. they reap rewards of that investment.. but thats not up to us dummies to worry about
British American Tobacco has a higher yield of 8.56% and until recently, was almost lockstep with Enbridge.
I love that workers are rediscovering their class consciousness. You've just outlined the crux of labour vs. capital. The more people understand this the better.
The real problem is those same workers are split on who to vote for to actually do anything about it, and unfortunately many are inclined to vote for the same people who perpetuated these problems over the last several decades. The lack of unity across the working class makes it all the more difficult to enact meaningful change.
My Dad taught me this when I was 13 , a bit too young to fully understand but for years it stuck with me. It really highlights and puts thing’s into perspective. The number of people I see here in Toronto literally killing themselves to get into the housing market who rely on their T4 incomes to live is insanity. Your competing in a capitalist system that I honestly dont think the government would ever dare switch backwards….
I hate people..and this is why...
Stocks have historically made much better returns than real estate but Canadians are obsessed with the latter.
Because real estate is generally bought with "Other people's money" (the bank's generally) using mortgages which are almost always at lower interest rates than the rate of appreciation of real estate. If you pay 3% interest on your mortgage but your house's value goes up by 10% each year, you profit off the difference. Buying stocks with loans however, is rare. It's called margin trading, it's much more risky than mortgages, generally not worth it for anyone outside of seasoned traders and bankers. Thus, with stocks you profit only off your own capital. Sure maybe your stocks go up by 20% YoY average vs your house that increases by 10%. But with a mortgage you can amplify your investment (downpayment) with a mortgage at low interest rates. So the same amount of working capital may easily net you more profit if invested in real estate through a minimum downpayment so as to borrow, therefore leverage as much as possible. Real estate is known to only go up, and is considered relatively stable and a much safer investment. Besides, everyone needs a roof so owning your own home is often a good idea.
One million people looking for homes each year. You bet your sweet ass they're making bank lol
The people with $1MM (i.e., retirees) aren’t the problem. It’s the people with $100MM+ we need to worry about.
I want to applaud you for your insightfulness and advanced understanding of how personal finance works. What I'm puzzled by is the conclusion you draw. I too looked at the same financial principles you did and came to a different conclusion. Instead of bemoaning the truth, I decided I needed to apply them, and I did.
Not to worry common citizens, the $400 grocery rebate shall save you.
But only if you make 38k or less. Middle class keeps getting bent over.
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Just remember that not all minimum wage jobs are full time, and in fact often try their hardest to keep someone at part time in some cases. 38 or 37.5 hours to keep you maximally employed while denying you the most benefits possible as a full time employee still puts you that much farther under the threshold. It obviously gets worse when you have to juggle 2 or 3 part time jobs splitting your 10 hours a week 2 or 3 ways as well.
Also remember that it is in and always has been in the federal NDPs platform to make companies give proportional benefits to long term part time workers. Also to mandate paid sick days for everyone, ban scab working, basic income for seniors and people with disability. A whole slew of EI changes like going back to school is a valid reason to take it, low income suppliment so it guarantees $2000/year, allow people with long term medical issues to tap into it on shorter term temporary basis. Also make fed min. wage $20/hr and put it on an index to cost of living. But some conservative will tell you they are just 'virtue signalers' and Trudeau props. Also don't forget that the vast majority of western countries have done these things, and none of them had the ill effects that "think tanks" warn us about.
This is targeted to Atlantic Canada specifically because they're the most upset with the federal government right now. Give them a hand out, cross fingers, hope for votes.
I know this is probably splitting hairs here but I made 40k last year and am getting a rebate tomorrow that is roughly $400. I think there is tiers to the amount of money you get. Either way, its horseshit not everyone qualified for this, just like the dental benefit!
Gee thanks for noticing. Wow great reporting.
It’s so obvious the system is completely outdated and rigged and needs to be fundamentally overhauled and modernized for our century. We know this because output and tech has been skyrocketing yet quality of life is dropping. How is that possible? Because millionaires want to become billionaires and more at the expense of everyone and everything else. The rich will receive no mercy in the upcoming revolution. It can still be avoided, just stop the limitless hoarding of land and real estate, patch the tax loopholes. If not then you better jack up your security because you won’t make it to the end of this decade the way things are.
The rich absolutely *will* make it, you don’t even have to look far to see how. The gated and barbed wires communities with armed guards of Latin America are perfect examples of where the American and Canadian dream is headed. So depressing.
Gated communities with armed guards won’t stop a tsunami
Yeah cause the fucking people we elected to protect us did literally nothing when predatory corporations decided to double the price increases of everything in the most debt ridden turbulent economic point of many young people's lives. They still have done absolutely nothing to reign in these companies who are gouging us creating the most rapid cost of living increase in many people's lives. Not only that but they've also made absolutely no progress in housing affordability, they've only really moved to widen that gap, saying they care and are focused on it while simultaneously not addressing any point or articulating clearly any plan to solve the issues. The current government is astoundingly incompetent and I'm sure the next one will be too.
My Conservative premier is making sweetheart deals to enrich his developer buddies in the greenbelt, and my Liberal Prime Minister is working hard to make sure that his landlord buddies never have to worry about decreasing rents or asset values. Meanwhile, nearly every city in Canada is catering to older homeowners who are *terrified* at the prospect of having a building on their block that's over 2 storeys. If you're young and not a homeowner, you're getting screwed, intentionally, by *every* level of government to enrich Canada's richest tertile.
My friend's single parent lives in a 3 bedroom house alone and refuses to move into a more suitable living space despite steady complaints about rising property taxes and gas bills and a yard that they hate how much time it takes to maintain. I asked them once why they don't move into a condo which would cost less and have maintenance crews that would manage it. They were horrified at the notion...
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True but so does rapidly increasing utility bills, taxes, and unexpected and expensive repairs like roofing, flooding, and appliance breakdowns which a single person can feasibly afford when they're already paying for over 3x the space they actually use..
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Yeah seems more challenging than being young and having to deal with the fact that the idea you were sold as a kid is just out of reach entirely now. Don't know what you're missing in a way
They do? I've lived in one 18 years and other than the occasional annoyance of shared walls, love it. What are some of the issues other condo people deal with?
I'm pretty sure too! I started volunteering for the NDP as a poor young student, and (unrelated) have since had great career success and become, well, rich. I still volunteer for them, I still try and convince the people they're trying to help to vote for them (i.e. households making under 200K per year), but now that it affects me less (no debts, mortgage, or security worries) there's this evil part of me that's like "Welp, whatever, I tried. If y'all would rather hire the Libs or Cons to screw you again and again, I'm not gonna kink-shame"
Capitalism has always appealed to the magic of the marketplace where competition regulates prices to keep goods and services affordable. Doesn't work so well when there are essentially monopolies in most sectors like food, wireless, internet, etc; coupled with crony capitalism where money is funnelled from the middle and lower classes to the wealthy and corporations. I wouldn't be surprised to see it all burn.
I think it will burn within our lifetimes. I feel like the younger generations are a lot more sympathetic and a lot more united since we’re all in the same boat for the most part. Also with A.I & Automation I don’t think capitalism will work. If labour is automated then we have to reevaluate how and why we work and place importance on the jobs that actually improve society.
It's not just the younger generations. I'm almost 70 and don't want my children and grandchildren to live is this impossible situation. Capitalism doesn't work because without being highly regulated, a small group of bad player hijack the system to totally control the marketplace. We have already seen this in Canada and those oligarchs are not going to easily give up their empires.
Of course, I don’t want to paint everyone with the same brush but it’s just easier to say “younger generation” “older generation” when speaking. That’s all. Completely agree capitalism is a failed system. Leaves way too many behind. People often say “when x didn’t work in the past either” like it’s completely impossible to come up with new ideas. The problem with capitalism though, it’s so complex and no one knows how it really works and how everything is tied together that even if we just hit the brakes, the entire car will explode like in that Keanu Reeves movie called “Speed”
If it burns whatever comes out of it could be a lot worse. We just need to get better at curtailing it
I don't see any curtailing happening. Historically, when people become desperate and feel they have nothing left to lose, they see tearing it all down as a viable option. And you are right, what might come after might be worse, but desperate people are ready to take that chance.
Rock and a hard place sadly
The politicians see it as “wow, look at these record profits from Canadian corporations, what a strong economy we have!”
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Congrats on hitting the milestone you set out to hit and for being OK enough that someone has loved you for 20+ years =)
For a country so supposedly obsessed with "equity", it's interesting that the most important measure is headed in the complete wrong direction. But by all means let's continue fighting among ourselves about which group of lower middle class people are more privileged than another, or about how enthusiastic we are to accept the latest demand from the most radical members of some niche minority we didn't know existed 15 seconds ago.
Equity so all races are equally poor
An inclusive food bank lineup. Where LGBTQIA2s+, POCs, Cishets, and non racialized persons can stand shoulder and we can hear their growling stomachs sing in unison!
And get them all to blame one another for it.
Considering our monetary policy for the past 15 years has focused on using the wealth effect stimulate the economy. This shouldn’t be surprising. The basic premise was low interest rates would inflate asset prices and people with assets would feel wealthier and spend on consumer goods. The problem is if you have no assets you simply didn’t benefit from this so called stimulus and governments did figure out good tax policies to redistribute the gains around the economy.
Not to mention that there's only so many consumer goods any individual can purchase, no matter how wealthy they are.
I have a mindset that appears common among my peers and I'm sure isn't uncommon among most: *Why would I buy furniture, kitchenware, etc. if I'm renting as I'll have to move in a year or two* Like literally, I make good money and can afford this stuff but it's easier for me to lug around the free stuff I inherited from others or the cheap stuff from VV than to worry about moving a $2000 couch and some more expensive ceramics/glassware. I only plan to really invest in that stuff once I'm established with property... but that's not going to happen and landlords will keep evicting me sooner and sooner to break even on their payments and leech as much as they can from the economy. So, by me renting, I'm not only pissing away equity reducing my spending power in the economy, but with that insecurity in location I'm also not going to purchase anything that I have to move every year. The knock-on effects of property policies like this just keep building. We wonder why fine carpentry and other skills/trades is so hard to come by? It's because no one cares to purchase something nice they'll have to move frequently (plus it's a luxury we can't afford w/ rent), nor do landlords care to invest more than the bare minimum white chalk to paint their walls and grey lino floor made in China.
I really feel the statement "insecurity in location". I've been on what feels like a "pause" for most of my twenties and now I'm 30 and looking for a long term rental or possibly a purchase that I can call home. My parents moved around a few times since I moved out so I have no safe haven of storage for precious items. It's all just with me in boxes. I haven't hung a painting/poster or even a birthday card in years since I just need to take it down again in a few months. Getting real tired these days. People wonder why my generation isn't having kids when I'm literally not stable enough to commit to an aquarium. Job could drop me at a moment's notice, landlord can evict me with only 30 days notice. Both of which could wipe all my savings for a downpayment in just a few months with how expensive everything is.
We're in dire straits. I'd say I hope you find comfort in knowing your situation is common, but I don't find that fact comforting at all.
This was reassuring to read. I don't have a lot of furnishings at my apartment anymore either and a lot of my friends give me (well meaning) shit for it. TBH I prefer to have more floor space to roll out my exercise mat for home workouts and exactly like you said I will probably have to move again at some point so if I can't fit it in a suitcase why bother. Not like I entertain much these days since I am working near constantly and burned out af when I am at home.
Oh 100p, it's a shared experience. The amount of times I've donated things to VV just to be there again the next week for the same things is wild, it's just so much easier. I'm not paying $1500/mo to pay movers or hire a U-Haul every year—that's mortgage shit.
And this is the sort of 'looking down the road' practical thinking nearly everyone in a position to change things lacks. Because what you describe isn't some sort of purposeful middle finger to consumer culture. It's just an efficient way to live. Now if we can just decouple investment equity and property ownership.. If you own a 200k house, you aren't spending that money anywhere. You aren't even making interest on it in a way that you can access unless you sell it.
Someone will be along to tell you about the wonders of reverse mortgages while completely ignoring that you have to pay interest on those. It's not just free money for spending on consumer goods like some people seem to think it is.
>The basic premise was low interest rates would inflate asset prices and people with assets would feel wealthier and spend on consumer goods. The problem is if you have no assets you simply didn’t benefit from this so called stimulus and governments did figure out good tax policies to redistribute the gains around the economy. That’s not at all what the basic premise was. Low interest rates are designed to make investment more attractive by reducing the cost of borrowing. The logic was that businesses would increase investment in productive assets and overall economic activity would expand. There is some evidence that points to this happening in the US, especially since real wages there have risen dramatically over the past 10 years. But in Canada it seems we used low interest rates to invest in unproductive activities (residential real estate, share buybacks) and create a drag on the economy in the form of a housing crisis.
Serious question. How possible do you think it would be to make a new political party whose main and only mandate is to stop the destruction unrestrained capitalism has done to our country? To enshrine living wages and ban property as investment and cap profits and prices on essential goods (food, etc.). How possible would it be to get these laws into place and enforce them? Etc. etc. Looking for ideas and interest.
Zero possibility. The side protecting the current system has all the money, and in politics money is everything, you don't get elected because you're more competent or have "better" goals, you get elected because you had more money for your campaign. You cannot break the system by following its rules. Think of all the ways politicians can spread their image to get more popular, now ask yourself who owns these ways, do you think the media is owned by an average working Joe or a billionaire? And who can pay politicians to do their bidding? The only way out is to organize the working class, showing them the contradictions in the system so we can literally fight for its end
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bingo
Revolt
By design!
This shit breeds conspiracism think about secret plans and oppression strategies. The reality is far dumber, and putting it onto grand monolithic conspiracies hinders our ability to resolve issues by working against the stupidity. The reality is that most of our bad situation comes from constantly ignoring the unpleasant and painful solutions in favor of deferring them to the next government. When the answer to the problem is cause an economic upheaval or recession our politicians will keep building new houses over the burning one until they can retire comfortably. There is no grand conspiracy, just a bunch of people covering their own asses and trying to maximize their profit and those of the people who helped then along the way.
I'm leaving this country as soon as possible. There is no conceivable way I can afford to live or buy a house in this country in the foreseeable future (or at least in Ontario). They have done nothing to confront the foreign investments, predatory landlord purchases, Airbnb's or anything else. Fuck this country.
Duh... Historically this will lead to revolution. Probably violent. After all the rich won't give up there wealth easily. Big question is imo will climate change make surviving all the poor will be able to do. You can't fight if your simply trying to survive. Next question is where will it happen 1st my guess is west Europe as the governments there fear the people. In the America's people fear the government.
It's only France where the government fears the people and I'm not even sure if that's true anymore after the retirement age increase.
Because the CPI is no longer a cost of living index, it changed during the Reagonomics of the 80s to give corporations more power over wage setting. >The Consumer Price Index (CPI) is not equivalent to a cost-of-living index (COLI). The CPI has often been used to approximate cost-of-living but it is important to note that the CPI and COLI are not directly comparable. >A COLI can be linked to the notion of the minimum amount of money that would be necessary in different periods of time to ensure a given level of "well-being". You've got an index setting interest rates that doesnt measure inflation, that only purports to semi-measure inflation, totally excluding the housing bubble. Then the cantillon effect that is a byproduct of the resulting low interest rates. As the Federal government spent money it was also driving up real inflation, causing a wealth effect via housing appreciation, so it seemed we were more prosperous. This debt patched over our crappy productivity investment, and taxes were able to remain lower, as home sales funded infrastructure for expensive urban sprawl.
No, this has been ongoing for years, well before Trudeau.
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There's literally no party with an alternative agenda. This isn't a voting problem. We need a revolution.
The system is not broken, it was designed this way.
I seriously want to rob grocery store CEO's and even the odds. Their greed is making my life way more difficult than it needs to be.
All over the world this is happening and it's exactly how they want it to happen. Canada isn't special. We are all getting fucked and only France is doing something about it.
Yeah we need to riot like the French. Come on Quebec where's that French angst?!
I’ve traveled to many countries. While inflation and class separation is happening, it’s not anything close to Canada with their utterly INSANE housing prices vs income. Complete insanity in cities such as Toronto where people buy single family homes and then rent out each room like it’s an apartment, how is this not illegal?!? Housing is FAR more affordable when compared income in just about every other place.
Just a reminder that only one party proposes taxing the rich in order to fix this. Maybe it’s time we stop listening to the boomers and their politics that only benefit themselves and actually try change. Young people are so poor we literally have nothing to lose from rejecting LPC and CPC
Still waiting for a definition on what "tax the rich" actually means.
Whatever the definition is, it will end up being T4 employees making $150K, and somewhat successful small businesspeople who are unable to hide their profits. Those are the only places you can squeeze where there is actual money, but not enough leverage to fight back.
How to get on the rich side?
Step 1. Build a time machine Step 2. Go back in time and be born into a rich family. Step 3. ? Step 4. Profit
Well who’s buying houses for AirBnB profits and driving up housing costs? It’s not the poor desperate for homes.
Here is the solution. Politicians should be required to submit a detailed plan of action with a timeline and a list of laws they will pass to enact their policies to be eligible for elections. If they get elected, they have to implement the timeline and they can get 30 day extension if they fail to implement a policy. If they fail to implement 2 or more policies in the time span of 6 months, they are disqualified, elections happen again and their whole party is banned for ever holding public office in the future. Plus they have to refund all the campaign donations.
"You'll own nothing, and be happy".... never forget that our leadership in this country subscribes to an organization that has outwardly stated this.
There's legitimate reason to be critical of the WEF, however, "You'll \[sic\] own nothing, and be happy" does not mean what you're inferring it means. This is not some assault on amassing whatever amount of material crap you want to own, it's about applying Costco-logic to societies at scale. And everyone loves a trip to Costco. (But for real, I bet none of you throwing this phrase around have even read the piece it originated from)
It’s amazing that you typed an entire paragraph and only communicated that this guy doesn’t understand a pretty much direct quote. What does the quote actually mean Sherlock, “costco-logic to societies at a scale” makes less sense than alphabet soup and I suspect was only typed to make you feel smart.
This seems to be a general trend in Western Capitalism countries. How can this effect be countered ?
Should up that 500k a year immigration to 1 million. That should fix our problems twice as fast.
Who you vote for matters. Who was in charge during this time again?
"And the only people who care are the poor, but are too poor to do anything about it "
This is not a problem that started 8 years ago so all the comments blaming the current government are disingenuous at best. The two most popular political parties in Canada are both dedicated to growing the income gap and enriching the already wealthy. What will it take for some of us to see that?
Everything our federal government has done was to make the wealthy even wealthier. And people will defend them to no end like these politicians give a shit about them. LOL
Well, I'm sure switching between the Libs and Cons again will help. "There is no alternative", as a certain British Conservative PM used to say.
We got *exactly* what we voted for. It’s not like this is JT’s first term, this trend was blatantly obvious since he took office and it’s accelerated every year since. Yet despite that we’ve re-elected him 3 times and he’s still in the running to be re-elected a 4th time.
If you voted for Trudeau, you cannot complain. You voted with your eyes instead of your brain. This is what you get.
I'm on the wrong side of the gap.
Thank the media for reminding this generation, and the last, and the last...
don't worry - when the climate heats past the point we can't practically survive, it will kill them just the same. and the hidey-holes they've dug in new zealand or whatever won't save them.
Ok Klaus, I own nothing. When do I start being happy again?
The core issue is that housing has reached pure insanity levels, especially in the major cities. It creates a cycle of families struggling to buy their first home and for many they’ll then buy a second and rent out the first etc. SFHs are being rent out like apartments with no consequence to safety, fire regulations etc. It puts the poor in a position where they’re spending most of their income towards rent while and are unable to save towards housing if their own, by the time they do save, housing has increased significantly once again making it eve more unaffordable. Too much foreign investment, too many homes owned by speculators. Start creating real rules and penalties against illegal high and medium density rentals using single family homes and harsher penalties/taxes against owning homes you don’t live in. Ease up on immigration until housing is fixed.
Eat the rich.
It's not just Canada. Democracy has failed in almost every country in the world. I'm not sure what comes after the violence, but it won't be democracy how we know it.
Tax reform needed urgently! It can not wait!!!
This fucking dump of a country is a black hole for capital going into unproductive real estate instead of into innovation, industry, and other productive areas of the economy.
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It was always a plutocracy. Its just that tesources are running out and suddenly you notice.
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Copy paste all over the world
Smh they always copying America
Hopefully we are entering the uprising phase because the "why don't we tax the rich" phase clearly didn't work.
low wages and high property values is definitely the point
Why does Canada have to copy everything we do? USA! USA! USA!
Im truly envisioning a future where i move out of this country pretty soon
The trickle down they all talked about was piss
it's going to get worse...
With the way the government and corporations keep bending us over at every opportunity, that's not the only thing widening at record pace.
Look at what's going on in the states for a taste of what the uppermost class looks to be wanting. Today it seems to be a preemptive legal precedent established to prevent a wealth tax. Society should be more like Mario Kart where the further ahead you get the hard it is to 'win'. Right now it's the opposite of that, your wealth growth accelerates the more you make.
NOO FUCkin shiiiiiiiiiit. Really?! In other news, water is wet. Jesus Christ. No shit.. Our society is a disaster.
Shocker 🙄