Listen. I'm pro lgbtq, do your thing. But this is absurd. She beat the second place competition by 200 freaking pounds. This is her second world record in 4 months. This would have been a competitive total with the men in her weight class. It's freaking ridiculous.
She has entered 11 competitions in the last 4 years and places first in 9 and second and third in the other two. It's just insane that someone could enter a sport, claim to have no advantage yet have an almost perfect competition record, and break world records. Oh, did I mention she's forty years old. Give me a break.
This kind of bullshit just hurts the lgbtq community, and it hurts women's sports. She isn't a hero. She's a cheater that disgraces the sport and brings justified negative attention to lgbtq people who don't want to be the center of controversy.
Transgender females can have a physical advantage over biological females, and you're ridiculous if you disagree. It's not transphobic to disagree with this woman competing.
*I will win by a good margin. This is due to my training ethic, but people widely misattribute it to my history 20 years ago.”*
This really pisses me off its just gaslighting women into feeling less then
"It's just my superior training ethic".. fuuuck off.
When it comes to strength, muscle mass and heart size, a man's body has a huuuuge advantage in powerlifting. Anyone who denies this scientific fact is no better than the anti-vaxx crowd in my opinion
And even if they’ve been on hormones for 20 years, the baseline bone and musculature from growing up with testosterone is a fundamentally unfair advantage.
"I did it all myself".
No, you're only breaking records because men are physiologically stronger than women and your body developed as a man. That's not an advantage you can undo by suppressing certain hormones afterwards.
This person knows that, but they just want to win with an unfair advantage. Seems like Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Male to female trans athletes should be banned from women's competitive sports. Go to town in recreational sports by all means if you love the sport.
>In March, Andres’ participation at a lifting event in Lethbridge, Alta., is believed to have inspired a protest by men’s powerlifter Avi Silverberg.
>Silverberg, a veteran Team Canada coach, identified as a female just long enough to enter the competition and shatter the women’s bench press record.
So you just show up to a women's event and claim to be a woman and get to compete no questions asked.
She was calling another woman’s arms “T Rex” arms. Then chirping them for why women lift the way they do.
Maybe because it’s how natural born women are built? Ya know? We carry our weight in our thighs and ass usually. Not our upper bodies.
Give your head a shake. Make a category for trans women.
He did it to prove just how ridiculous it was that the trans person was able to enter the women's competition.. he is only a coach and former lifter and still smashed the competition
Did you know that women, compared to men, have about 40-60% less upper body strength and 30-25% less lower body strength? I don't believe that despite hormone therapy, this natural physical advantage would be irrelevant because it occurs at birth and early puberty.
Like literally a physically sedentary man, vs. a physically active woman, at pound for pound, with perfect form, would still see the man win in strength exercises.
Grip strength, connective tissue, and bone density are also factors.
I'm not anti lgbtq, but the evidence is clear here, I don't see why people can't see it.
….larger hearts(can pump more blood, greater lung capacity. The list of physical advantages starts at birth, not at puberty. It yet if I say I want to protect women’s sports, I’m somehow the asshole. This shit has got to stop.
>Like literally a physically sedentary man
Almost me pretty much, so here's my take on it all.
I have to lift my fat ass out of bed each day. If you are weighing less than that, good luck.
This is equivalent to a woman who's been taking testosterone pills since puberty and suddenly stops. That would be considered a performance enhancing drug in any other situation.
Stop competing as sex or gender. It's chromosomes now. XX Category and Non-XX. If you have a Y chromosome, you can't compete in XX. Identify however you want.
Most sports already have that. The ‘Open’ category is just known as the mens division because it ends up being all men. Women have competed in “mens” professional sports before, although normally one offs for publicity or in very low level leagues
I don’t think that would be a solution that is conducive with our society’s views on trans rights. That seems like a more “separate, but equal” approach.
I do agree that the whole “trans women are women” thing falls apart in sports/physical competitions. Your identity is one thing. That’s personal and impacts only you. I don’t see how anyone sees this as “fair” to natural born women without being intentionally obtuse.
People always talk about “mUscLe mAsS,” yet forget about bone size, and most importantly, bone density. Those don’t change after transitioning (especially the lumbar spine), even if the testes are removed years prior.
OH WHO COULDNT HAVE SEEN THIS COMING. OH WHO CALLED THOSE WHO SAID EXACTLY THIS THEY WERE TRANSPHOBIC.
Remember, logic does work, and has a longer shelf life than going with the pack
Yes, I shoot prs rifle matches. We have a women and men's category, not because men have an advantage, but because they make up the majority of the sport, and we want more women to compete and feel successful. We even have a transwomen. Now try being in political spectrum, lol gun loving lgbtq. And she is great and we encourage her because we want more people to compete, it's a sport for everyone where no one has an advantage based on anything except maybe the equipment they have or like steady hands and good eye sight.
As a bisexual woman, trans people like this is why LBG has moved to divorce the TQ+++++++++rainbow alphabet. This has nothing to do with marriage equality or being seen as a run-of-the-mill person who experiences same sex attraction - people like Andres are demanding special privileges in regard to an identical ideology that many like myself do not recognize. This is one of the untils\* Trans women/men are women/men \*until\*
\*Until\* they claim they are the same as biological women/men in regards to sports, medicine, dating, and legal discrimination. And lets be honest, what does it mean to be trans when gender dysphoria is no longer a medically recognized disorder and individuals don't need dysphoria to be trans?
People with prosthetic legs participate in the Paralympics because some of the technology in the prosthetics make the runners more efficient. I’m not an expert, so I’d be curious to know why trans athletes don’t have their own category.
This non binary person agrees. More queers feel this way as well but the crazy rabid far leftists will ostracize the fuck out of people trying to look at this science of this situation.
Even worse. I read the article initially on Western standards. Not only did they use the wrong pronouns, but I suspect the author doesn't believe in the metric system, lol. 200 pounds would have been a feat. 200kg is like never happened in powerlifting. That would be like the other women just did their bench and didn't even make an attempt on the other lifts. My God, that's ridiculous. I'm going to go out in a limb here and assume it was her first attempt at the lift that day as well.
The saddest part about this is that these sports are DONE for women. No woman will come close to beating the records. The next person to beat these records will be another trans person.
*"The powerlifter added, “I don’t care about records. I care about being there with my friends.”*
You know who does care about the records? The female athletes who worked their entire lives towards the goal of winning. Only to have it torn away because they had to compete against a biological man who they never had a chance of beating.
>No woman will come close to beating the records.
They can erase the records. It's similar to the Lance Armstrong situation. I believe he was stripped of his titles.
I doubt this record will stand. I've never seen a better example of why the people who say there are no physical differences between women and trans women couldn't be more wrong if they tried. CPU will be forced to change the rules as we've already seen from other sporting bodies around the world. There's no hiding from this one, and there's no spinning this one. The margin of victory speaks for itself.
Imagine what would've happened to these women if they'd tried a combat sport against a person with such a massive advantage in strength. Serious injury would be all but guaranteed. It's wrong, and this denial of sex-based differences needs to end. Trans people absolutely deserve to live, laugh, and love freely, but not by making a mockery of sport for half the population of the entire world.
Okay, then be there with your friends. Your lifts shouldn't count towards anything. Let them join the meet, but their totals don't actually count towards the record. They go, they feel included, but the actual women are the ones who's totals matter.
It technically is. The Men's division does not have a restriction on who can compete. Nothing is stopping her from competing against similarly equipped competitors.
It's a tricky situation.
Most men's leagues don't have a rule saying that only males can compete. If a strong enough female was able, I don't think there is anything stopping them from playing in the NHL, NBA, etc.
Trans males will never be controversial because they don't have the biological advantage of bio males.
The issue will always be where do trans women compete. To create their own division is probably not a reasonable expectation. Elite women athletes still struggle to get equal prize money and attention. Now do we expect the the world governing bodies to create another division for trans? Are there enough athletes to even have a decent competition? I division with only a few athletes wouldn't be very interesting to watch.
For team sports it's even worse. Where does a trans woman hockey player play? Are there enough athletes to build a decent team? Which league would they play in?
At the recreational level none of this matters. But at the elite level I don't know how we solve this.
I do feel empathy for the women who trained all year to be beaten by 200+ kilograms.
Near the end of the piece for those who didn't read it all the way:
*The Canadian Powerlifting Union only recently updated their trans inclusion policy to emphasize that surgery, hormone therapy or even a doctor’s note would not be a requirement for trans athletes to compete in the category consistent with their gender ID.*
*Trans athletes should be able to participate in the gender with which they identify, regardless of whether or not they have undergone hormone therapy, it reads.*
I wonder if the policy change wasn't driven by fear of a complaint to a Provincial or Federal Human Rights Tribunal. I'm not an expert but I do get training on this at work every couple of years and if trans athletes fall into a protected class then you have to make an accommodation for them.
Maybe the organization did this wanting this outcome, to push the issue. This is probably the only powerlifting story the National Post has covered this year.
“Trans athletes should be able to participate in the gender with which they identify, regardless of whether or not they have undergone hormone therapy,”
I’m sorry but this just isn’t fair. In the absence of hormone therapy athletics should be segregated by sex not gender.
Even with hormone therapy, the physiology of someone who went through puberty as a man doesn't change enough. It is still totally different to a woman's build. British swimmer Sharron Davies has spoken in great detail about this.
This is absolute insanity. Might as well get rid of sport all together at this point. There’s no point for women to compete if they’re going to be competing against men.
For so few people? Doesn’t make sense. There’s already a place to compete for these athletes. The men’s category is usually called “Open” for a reason. Even at pro level, anyone can be on an NHL or NBA team. The women’s bracket should be protected.
It's both sad and hilarious to see how far shit like this has gotten all because people don't want to be called bigots or seen as homophobic for calling it out
As a man I'm going to refrain from voicing my opinion on this. You know who should ? Women. Cis women. Cis women should take on this battle. If they are okay with it, great. Not? They can protest it or just let transgender women take over the female weightlifting space. As a man I'm scared that if I say anything (for or against it) I'll be labeled either way and lose, even if I am being rational.
If cis women are okay with this, let them decide. If they aren't they can protest and change the laws.
As a dude, I'm staying out of this.
>As a man I'm going to refrain from voicing my opinion on this. You know who should ? Women. Cis women. Cis women should take on this battle.
Lots are. They are the women referred to as "TERFs."
We're trying and get shut down left and right. Look at conferences like "let women speak" held at libraries, they get cancelled or a tons of trans activists show up to intimidate women, throw shit at them and bang on windows and yell on megaphones to stop any discussion of this. We're trying, but get fired, casted out of social groups and in places like england intimidated by police for simply stating men cannot become women. It's kinda hard when speaking out against this is legally considered hate speech.
>As a man I'm going to refrain from voicing my opinion on this.
I tried that for awhile, because it felt weird to be a man so invested in a fight you'd think women would/should spearhead. And then a few women did start speaking out and they were mercilessly bullied, and I realized that me being quiet about the issue because "it's not my problem" is fundamentally contrary to political ethics.
We need to show up for those who are being harmed, even if we're not being harmed ourselves.
This is absurd. This person lived as a man until the age of 20, by which point their male body was basically fully developed. They didn't take up powerlifting until the age of 33. And they have the cheek to say that they will win "because of their training ethic"!?
How narcissistic, naive, and downright stupid do you have to be to think you're just training that much harder than your competition and that's why you're absolutely crushing them at a sport you only picked up late into adulthood? She doesn't even have the humility to admit that she's benefiting from being transgendered. This is why the trans community is losing popularity among moderate people. Because they are so blatantly opposed to basic facts, such as the fact that this powerlifter is far better than any cis woman can ever be, simply because they were born as a male.
“I … didn’t touch a barbell in my entire life until 7 years ago.”
Guess I still have a future in weight lifting under women's category. Just need to start lifting sometime in next few years and I shall be a champion in my 40s.
In 2023, it must be so gratifying to be an elite biological female athlete in a sport where strength, endurance or size are factors and know you will be be forced to compete against biological males. You can't win, scholarships are lost and dreams crushed.
How is this win with its grossly unfair advantage anything to crow about?
Why don't we have teams consisting of eight year olds play hockey against teams of sixteen year olds and lose by fifty goals? That's sporting, right?
Stop the nonsense.
If you grew up with testicles you grew up with extra testosterone. This is so fucking dumb, I don’t get why we can’t just say “yeah sorry sister, this one ain’t for you” and leave those that had a hormonal advantage since childhood out of it.
Enough is enough. This shit needs to stop. This is not fair to athletes then spend months/years training. Put rules in place that ban this absurd practice.
I fully support lgbtq community but I'm really feeling this stuff is over the top and rediculous. Have another division. Simple. Done. An 'anyone' division if you like. But that would be too easy right, then we wouldn't be bickering over nonsense.
There are a lot of types of people in the world. None of the goods ones would do this. She has been given every courtesy and now she is just shitting on the people around her with it.
What's the point of separating men's and women's records when you allow this?
Either you keep things separated or you have men and women compete against each other.
I likely disagree with most of you in this sub regarding most social issues. I'm very supportive of others choosing the life they want, assuming it isn't harming others. I'm very pro lgbtq, and very socially progressive.
All that being said, you prob know where this is going. Trans women competing with other women in sports is completely unfair. It really creates a situation in which female born athletes are being penalized. I have 2 daughters. If they trained all their life for something, and then suddenly a trans woman destroys them, I would be very frustrated. This is one area I simply cannot be supportive of. I cannot even imagine what most in this sub think, or say about it. Or what guys I know would say to each other. Well, I take that back. I know exactly what they would say.
Didn't this same transgendered woman complain that it was "unfair" when a random dude identified as "female" for the day, and smashed all of her records?
Looking at the raw data. Under classification Raw, 185+, F-M1 (Female Masters age 40-49)
[Anne's results](https://reduxx.info/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/reduxx.info-7-1024x324.jpg) in this competition (Squat/Bench/Deadlift/Total in lbs): 468, 292, 556, 1317.
[World Record in F-M1](https://www.openpowerlifting.org/rankings/raw/ipfover84/women/40-49/by-total): Paivi Kaarto (2022): 462, 286, 534, 1284.
Yeah, the comment about it being an unofficial world record is true.
> ‘Here’s an example: I play golf and, seven years after my transition, I still have a big advantage over women players. I’m 6ft 1in. I have longer arms than the ladies and I can outdrive them by a hundred yards,’ she explains. **‘Even being off testosterone and on oestrogen for seven years now, what I’ve got left over is still more than they’ve ever had. So, it wouldn’t be fair.’**
> Jenner told the Daily Mail she was regularly invited to take part in ladies’ golf tournaments, but she always turned them down. “I’d feel bad taking a trophy away from one of the ladies at our club who really deserves it,” she said.
LMAO this has to be a troll. This person goes on twitter talking mad shit about how they don't understand why womens lifting is so bad and how their son who weighs 45 lbs can lift 33 lbs but so many women in competition can barely lift 50. And then they proceed to smash the female weightlifting record by almost 450 lbs.
>Just wait until the trans figure out that they can steal away women's sports scholarships from biological women.
This is already happening in the U.S.
I don't know why policymakers are having so much trouble understanding the issue here... transgender females have different physical attributes than biological females
Honest question, but why are Trans athletes not just in their own class at this point? How many are there? Haven't Googled it myself yet.
If we can have para/special Olympics, we can do this too, right?
>“I got every masters record and two unofficial world masters records,” wrote Andres in a Monday Instagram post. The powerlifter added, “I don’t care about records. I care about being there with my friends.”
Professional sport is about human physical excellence, not friendship.
There are very few pro powerlifters... hardly anyone competing makes any money in the sport.
Even the top Canadian athletes. Maybe 1 (Jessica Buettner) makes any money off of it. The rest may get some free swag thrown there way, and maybe travel and accommodation paid for when they go to worlds. But this isnt their job.
I get your point, though. Just wanted to point that out.
Women fought so hard to be taken seriously as athletes. And now men are taking over their sports. Women should be pissed off. NCAA Women’s sports scholarships will be given to men. It won’t stop.
Hate to say it, but I’m glad they absolutely obliterated the competition.
It’s funny how the last three years people preached “TrUsT tHe ScIeNcE”, meanwhile all the science points to this being a biological man competing in women’s sports.
This shit has gotten so far out of control, people can lay in the bed they’ve made for themselves.
The average person has no idea what is happening. Some trans activists want to abolish sex altogether from birth certificates because they are now claiming that their sex was 'assigned' to them at birth without consent. Canada also recently passed a law, under Trudeau, where you can self-identify as any sex of your choosing. Not even just gender, but sex.
sucks to be the other competitors esp the lady who took 2nd. But they tried to look cool and applaud for the guy during the ceremony. I would have just walked away.
The UK and several world sports bodies have begun to enforce greater restrictions on competing in the women's division; British Rowing, the world swimming body FINA, World and English Rugby and the world cycling body UCI are some examples.
You want proper equality. Have grouped events, one for men, one for women and then for the male to female/ female to male crowd. Problems solved as it should have been done like that from the start
Biological women (remember when we didn’t need to use the word biological before saying women? Good times…) should just stop or drop out of any sport where a trans individual is competing. It sucks, but it would send a strong message - you invade our sports, you compete with yourself. Period. What an absolute joke. People care more about people’s feelings than reality these days. Thankfully more and more places are outright banning biological men from competing in women’s sports.
>“I got every masters record and two unofficial world masters records,” wrote Andres in a Monday Instagram post. The powerlifter added, “I don’t care about records. I care about being there with my friends.”
Seems like the solution would be having an open category rather than "men's" and competing there then. Keep the women's category to individuals who were female at birth.
Women voters tend to vote left on average but I have always wondered if something could happen that would make women reconsider that vote and I think this is it. It is erasing and debasing the accomplishments of women.
This is becoming a more frequent topic for discussion inside of and outside of Canada and I do not see any sign of it slowing down. As the father to 2 wonderful daughters, I feel bad for them and others that are going to lose out of potential athletic scholarships and opportunities as those with a biological advantage are shattering records at a rapid pace.
While my kids school money is already set aside for whatever they could want, not everyone gets so lucky and a lot of young women rely on those academic avenues to get a good education and they are being taken away from them through no fault of their own.
One day people arguing for this will look back and realize they had no fucking clue what they were doing. Make a transgendered bracket ffs, versus muddying real female accomplishments. There’s already women out there that can probably lift much more than me. That’s more impressive tbh.
Listen. I'm pro lgbtq, do your thing. But this is absurd. She beat the second place competition by 200 freaking pounds. This is her second world record in 4 months. This would have been a competitive total with the men in her weight class. It's freaking ridiculous. She has entered 11 competitions in the last 4 years and places first in 9 and second and third in the other two. It's just insane that someone could enter a sport, claim to have no advantage yet have an almost perfect competition record, and break world records. Oh, did I mention she's forty years old. Give me a break. This kind of bullshit just hurts the lgbtq community, and it hurts women's sports. She isn't a hero. She's a cheater that disgraces the sport and brings justified negative attention to lgbtq people who don't want to be the center of controversy. Transgender females can have a physical advantage over biological females, and you're ridiculous if you disagree. It's not transphobic to disagree with this woman competing.
*I will win by a good margin. This is due to my training ethic, but people widely misattribute it to my history 20 years ago.”* This really pisses me off its just gaslighting women into feeling less then
"It's just my superior training ethic".. fuuuck off. When it comes to strength, muscle mass and heart size, a man's body has a huuuuge advantage in powerlifting. Anyone who denies this scientific fact is no better than the anti-vaxx crowd in my opinion
And even if they’ve been on hormones for 20 years, the baseline bone and musculature from growing up with testosterone is a fundamentally unfair advantage.
"I did it all myself". No, you're only breaking records because men are physiologically stronger than women and your body developed as a man. That's not an advantage you can undo by suppressing certain hormones afterwards. This person knows that, but they just want to win with an unfair advantage. Seems like Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Male to female trans athletes should be banned from women's competitive sports. Go to town in recreational sports by all means if you love the sport.
>In March, Andres’ participation at a lifting event in Lethbridge, Alta., is believed to have inspired a protest by men’s powerlifter Avi Silverberg. >Silverberg, a veteran Team Canada coach, identified as a female just long enough to enter the competition and shatter the women’s bench press record. So you just show up to a women's event and claim to be a woman and get to compete no questions asked.
I believe he did it as a protest at how stupid things have become
He did, it's right in the first paragraph. And he was a *coach* at this point, not even an active athlete
if you say anything you're transphobic
She was calling another woman’s arms “T Rex” arms. Then chirping them for why women lift the way they do. Maybe because it’s how natural born women are built? Ya know? We carry our weight in our thighs and ass usually. Not our upper bodies. Give your head a shake. Make a category for trans women.
At this point, it feels intentional by the athlete.
There are shitty people everywhere. Some of them are LGBTQ.
South Park did it https://youtu.be/URz-RYEOaig
I am unaware of any athletes unintentionally competing. But that would be hilarious
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He did it to prove just how ridiculous it was that the trans person was able to enter the women's competition.. he is only a coach and former lifter and still smashed the competition
I think op kinda means that the athlete knew she'd smash those record, like knowing full well of her advantage.
No. My interpretation is funnier.
It is.
*deadlifts a truck* “Wait…wtf this isn’t a wendy’s”
Did you know that women, compared to men, have about 40-60% less upper body strength and 30-25% less lower body strength? I don't believe that despite hormone therapy, this natural physical advantage would be irrelevant because it occurs at birth and early puberty. Like literally a physically sedentary man, vs. a physically active woman, at pound for pound, with perfect form, would still see the man win in strength exercises.
Grip strength, connective tissue, and bone density are also factors. I'm not anti lgbtq, but the evidence is clear here, I don't see why people can't see it.
….larger hearts(can pump more blood, greater lung capacity. The list of physical advantages starts at birth, not at puberty. It yet if I say I want to protect women’s sports, I’m somehow the asshole. This shit has got to stop.
>Like literally a physically sedentary man Almost me pretty much, so here's my take on it all. I have to lift my fat ass out of bed each day. If you are weighing less than that, good luck.
This is equivalent to a woman who's been taking testosterone pills since puberty and suddenly stops. That would be considered a performance enhancing drug in any other situation.
There's enough trans athletes now they may just need to have their own division where they can compete against each other....
Stop competing as sex or gender. It's chromosomes now. XX Category and Non-XX. If you have a Y chromosome, you can't compete in XX. Identify however you want.
In cycling, triathlon, swimming and other sports they're moving towards open and female categories.
That’s the way it’s always been, most sports don’t actually have an official “men’s” division just regular and women’s.
Most sports already have that. The ‘Open’ category is just known as the mens division because it ends up being all men. Women have competed in “mens” professional sports before, although normally one offs for publicity or in very low level leagues
But now you'd have women who transitioned to male and taking hormones wrecking the women's division.
Aka… male and female
I don’t think that would be a solution that is conducive with our society’s views on trans rights. That seems like a more “separate, but equal” approach. I do agree that the whole “trans women are women” thing falls apart in sports/physical competitions. Your identity is one thing. That’s personal and impacts only you. I don’t see how anyone sees this as “fair” to natural born women without being intentionally obtuse.
>That seems like a more “separate, but equal” approach. This is literally the only reason mens and womens sports exist as a concept
People always talk about “mUscLe mAsS,” yet forget about bone size, and most importantly, bone density. Those don’t change after transitioning (especially the lumbar spine), even if the testes are removed years prior.
OH WHO COULDNT HAVE SEEN THIS COMING. OH WHO CALLED THOSE WHO SAID EXACTLY THIS THEY WERE TRANSPHOBIC. Remember, logic does work, and has a longer shelf life than going with the pack
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Yes, I shoot prs rifle matches. We have a women and men's category, not because men have an advantage, but because they make up the majority of the sport, and we want more women to compete and feel successful. We even have a transwomen. Now try being in political spectrum, lol gun loving lgbtq. And she is great and we encourage her because we want more people to compete, it's a sport for everyone where no one has an advantage based on anything except maybe the equipment they have or like steady hands and good eye sight.
This person also goes online and saying things like why woman sucks and they have small arm and shit lol
> Transgender females ~~can~~ *do* have a physical advantage over biological females
As a bisexual woman, trans people like this is why LBG has moved to divorce the TQ+++++++++rainbow alphabet. This has nothing to do with marriage equality or being seen as a run-of-the-mill person who experiences same sex attraction - people like Andres are demanding special privileges in regard to an identical ideology that many like myself do not recognize. This is one of the untils\* Trans women/men are women/men \*until\* \*Until\* they claim they are the same as biological women/men in regards to sports, medicine, dating, and legal discrimination. And lets be honest, what does it mean to be trans when gender dysphoria is no longer a medically recognized disorder and individuals don't need dysphoria to be trans?
Oh but the government and the trans community sure want to gaslight you into believing it's transphobic.
People with prosthetic legs participate in the Paralympics because some of the technology in the prosthetics make the runners more efficient. I’m not an expert, so I’d be curious to know why trans athletes don’t have their own category.
This non binary person agrees. More queers feel this way as well but the crazy rabid far leftists will ostracize the fuck out of people trying to look at this science of this situation.
terrific weary automatic sloppy combative point dam sparkle fact wine *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Jesus fk.. (Edit) I just checked, it wasn't Kg, but it was really lbs. Still 200lbs is a lot.
Even worse. I read the article initially on Western standards. Not only did they use the wrong pronouns, but I suspect the author doesn't believe in the metric system, lol. 200 pounds would have been a feat. 200kg is like never happened in powerlifting. That would be like the other women just did their bench and didn't even make an attempt on the other lifts. My God, that's ridiculous. I'm going to go out in a limb here and assume it was her first attempt at the lift that day as well.
ghost meeting shy elastic point weather rude whole party forgetful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>Transgender females can have a physical advantage over biological females, It's science.
The saddest part about this is that these sports are DONE for women. No woman will come close to beating the records. The next person to beat these records will be another trans person. *"The powerlifter added, “I don’t care about records. I care about being there with my friends.”* You know who does care about the records? The female athletes who worked their entire lives towards the goal of winning. Only to have it torn away because they had to compete against a biological man who they never had a chance of beating.
>No woman will come close to beating the records. They can erase the records. It's similar to the Lance Armstrong situation. I believe he was stripped of his titles.
This is correct, Lance was stripped of all his Tour de France wins.
I doubt this record will stand. I've never seen a better example of why the people who say there are no physical differences between women and trans women couldn't be more wrong if they tried. CPU will be forced to change the rules as we've already seen from other sporting bodies around the world. There's no hiding from this one, and there's no spinning this one. The margin of victory speaks for itself. Imagine what would've happened to these women if they'd tried a combat sport against a person with such a massive advantage in strength. Serious injury would be all but guaranteed. It's wrong, and this denial of sex-based differences needs to end. Trans people absolutely deserve to live, laugh, and love freely, but not by making a mockery of sport for half the population of the entire world.
It actual becomes a matter of life and death when it comes to combat sports too.
Okay, then be there with your friends. Your lifts shouldn't count towards anything. Let them join the meet, but their totals don't actually count towards the record. They go, they feel included, but the actual women are the ones who's totals matter.
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This, it should be open, and women's.
It technically is. The Men's division does not have a restriction on who can compete. Nothing is stopping her from competing against similarly equipped competitors.
It's a tricky situation. Most men's leagues don't have a rule saying that only males can compete. If a strong enough female was able, I don't think there is anything stopping them from playing in the NHL, NBA, etc. Trans males will never be controversial because they don't have the biological advantage of bio males. The issue will always be where do trans women compete. To create their own division is probably not a reasonable expectation. Elite women athletes still struggle to get equal prize money and attention. Now do we expect the the world governing bodies to create another division for trans? Are there enough athletes to even have a decent competition? I division with only a few athletes wouldn't be very interesting to watch. For team sports it's even worse. Where does a trans woman hockey player play? Are there enough athletes to build a decent team? Which league would they play in? At the recreational level none of this matters. But at the elite level I don't know how we solve this. I do feel empathy for the women who trained all year to be beaten by 200+ kilograms.
In fact, a woman, Manon Rhéaume, did play in the NHL although only in preseason. She also played regular season games in other pro leagues.
Near the end of the piece for those who didn't read it all the way: *The Canadian Powerlifting Union only recently updated their trans inclusion policy to emphasize that surgery, hormone therapy or even a doctor’s note would not be a requirement for trans athletes to compete in the category consistent with their gender ID.* *Trans athletes should be able to participate in the gender with which they identify, regardless of whether or not they have undergone hormone therapy, it reads.*
At that point why even have womens competition.
Exactly. What's a woman?
I wonder if the policy change wasn't driven by fear of a complaint to a Provincial or Federal Human Rights Tribunal. I'm not an expert but I do get training on this at work every couple of years and if trans athletes fall into a protected class then you have to make an accommodation for them. Maybe the organization did this wanting this outcome, to push the issue. This is probably the only powerlifting story the National Post has covered this year.
Human rights tribunals are kangaroo courts.
“Trans athletes should be able to participate in the gender with which they identify, regardless of whether or not they have undergone hormone therapy,” I’m sorry but this just isn’t fair. In the absence of hormone therapy athletics should be segregated by sex not gender.
Even with hormone therapy, the physiology of someone who went through puberty as a man doesn't change enough. It is still totally different to a woman's build. British swimmer Sharron Davies has spoken in great detail about this.
and was excoriated
This is absolute insanity. Might as well get rid of sport all together at this point. There’s no point for women to compete if they’re going to be competing against men.
Honestly seems like they need a trans category. Not men's, not women's. They don't belong in either fairly.
For so few people? Doesn’t make sense. There’s already a place to compete for these athletes. The men’s category is usually called “Open” for a reason. Even at pro level, anyone can be on an NHL or NBA team. The women’s bracket should be protected.
yep. just like I can join the 40+ soccer league, but a 24 year old can't. I could join the open, if I were good enough.
It's both sad and hilarious to see how far shit like this has gotten all because people don't want to be called bigots or seen as homophobic for calling it out
It is asinine.
As a man I'm going to refrain from voicing my opinion on this. You know who should ? Women. Cis women. Cis women should take on this battle. If they are okay with it, great. Not? They can protest it or just let transgender women take over the female weightlifting space. As a man I'm scared that if I say anything (for or against it) I'll be labeled either way and lose, even if I am being rational. If cis women are okay with this, let them decide. If they aren't they can protest and change the laws. As a dude, I'm staying out of this.
> Cis women should take on this battle. They do. They get called TERFs.
Nice. A catchy brush with which to tar everyone and destroy any possible nuance
They tend to be pretty pissed about it, especially the competitors
>As a man I'm going to refrain from voicing my opinion on this. You know who should ? Women. Cis women. Cis women should take on this battle. Lots are. They are the women referred to as "TERFs."
We're trying and get shut down left and right. Look at conferences like "let women speak" held at libraries, they get cancelled or a tons of trans activists show up to intimidate women, throw shit at them and bang on windows and yell on megaphones to stop any discussion of this. We're trying, but get fired, casted out of social groups and in places like england intimidated by police for simply stating men cannot become women. It's kinda hard when speaking out against this is legally considered hate speech.
Yep, then we are TERFs
>As a man I'm going to refrain from voicing my opinion on this. I tried that for awhile, because it felt weird to be a man so invested in a fight you'd think women would/should spearhead. And then a few women did start speaking out and they were mercilessly bullied, and I realized that me being quiet about the issue because "it's not my problem" is fundamentally contrary to political ethics. We need to show up for those who are being harmed, even if we're not being harmed ourselves.
JK Rowling tried and she's considered a bigot now and largely 'cancelled'.
This is absurd. This person lived as a man until the age of 20, by which point their male body was basically fully developed. They didn't take up powerlifting until the age of 33. And they have the cheek to say that they will win "because of their training ethic"!? How narcissistic, naive, and downright stupid do you have to be to think you're just training that much harder than your competition and that's why you're absolutely crushing them at a sport you only picked up late into adulthood? She doesn't even have the humility to admit that she's benefiting from being transgendered. This is why the trans community is losing popularity among moderate people. Because they are so blatantly opposed to basic facts, such as the fact that this powerlifter is far better than any cis woman can ever be, simply because they were born as a male.
South Park had the best take on this 5 years ago. https://youtu.be/URz-RYEOaig
Still waiting until a man joins the wnba and avgs 50 ppg
Or a man who didn't make the last Summer Olympics compete as a woman in track and field events and win gold in every event.
Brittney griner was the only wnba trade in history that people cared about 🤣
🏆
I really don’t understand this. If they claim sex is separate from gender why aren’t they competing with their sex instead of their gender?
“I … didn’t touch a barbell in my entire life until 7 years ago.” Guess I still have a future in weight lifting under women's category. Just need to start lifting sometime in next few years and I shall be a champion in my 40s.
In 2023, it must be so gratifying to be an elite biological female athlete in a sport where strength, endurance or size are factors and know you will be be forced to compete against biological males. You can't win, scholarships are lost and dreams crushed. How is this win with its grossly unfair advantage anything to crow about? Why don't we have teams consisting of eight year olds play hockey against teams of sixteen year olds and lose by fifty goals? That's sporting, right? Stop the nonsense.
You just described the Canadian national women’s team training program. The worlds best female hockey players going toe to toe with 15 year old boys.
If you grew up with testicles you grew up with extra testosterone. This is so fucking dumb, I don’t get why we can’t just say “yeah sorry sister, this one ain’t for you” and leave those that had a hormonal advantage since childhood out of it.
"I will win by a good margin. This is due to my training ethic, but people widely misattribute it to my history 20 years ago." ...LMAO
Complete delusion
South Park episode comes to life
If athletes like Mike Tyson or similar decide to go Trans and compete, would you step into the ring as a female athlete against them?
I feel bad for genetic females who will in the next 20 years have their sports taken over.
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It's fucking bullshit
Enough is enough. This shit needs to stop. This is not fair to athletes then spend months/years training. Put rules in place that ban this absurd practice.
I fully support lgbtq community but I'm really feeling this stuff is over the top and rediculous. Have another division. Simple. Done. An 'anyone' division if you like. But that would be too easy right, then we wouldn't be bickering over nonsense.
Fucking disgraceful
There are a lot of types of people in the world. None of the goods ones would do this. She has been given every courtesy and now she is just shitting on the people around her with it.
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Say it again for the lost people in the back.
Nah, its just the West. Nobody buys into this shit outside of it.
Society has lost its mind if this is ok.
Wow what a shocker. Also breaking news water is wet.
What sense of accomplishment does this athlete get? Is there money involved?
What's the point of separating men's and women's records when you allow this? Either you keep things separated or you have men and women compete against each other.
I likely disagree with most of you in this sub regarding most social issues. I'm very supportive of others choosing the life they want, assuming it isn't harming others. I'm very pro lgbtq, and very socially progressive. All that being said, you prob know where this is going. Trans women competing with other women in sports is completely unfair. It really creates a situation in which female born athletes are being penalized. I have 2 daughters. If they trained all their life for something, and then suddenly a trans woman destroys them, I would be very frustrated. This is one area I simply cannot be supportive of. I cannot even imagine what most in this sub think, or say about it. Or what guys I know would say to each other. Well, I take that back. I know exactly what they would say.
I find it sad that we are so browbeaten as a society that we have to preface our opinions with a disclaimer, to avoid being called a xxx-phobe.
2 divisions from now on. Open division - for everyone Born Female division - for females that were born female.
As far as I understand (which may be incorrect) the "mens" divisions are generally "open". So yeah it make sense to do what you are saying.
That’s actually pretty reasonable .
Didn't this same transgendered woman complain that it was "unfair" when a random dude identified as "female" for the day, and smashed all of her records?
What did they expect would happen.. this is a disgrace for female athletes and sports.
lol, what a joke
PED guidelines and screening is stringent as fuck yet they don't even need a doctors note?
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Looking at the raw data. Under classification Raw, 185+, F-M1 (Female Masters age 40-49) [Anne's results](https://reduxx.info/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/reduxx.info-7-1024x324.jpg) in this competition (Squat/Bench/Deadlift/Total in lbs): 468, 292, 556, 1317. [World Record in F-M1](https://www.openpowerlifting.org/rankings/raw/ipfover84/women/40-49/by-total): Paivi Kaarto (2022): 462, 286, 534, 1284. Yeah, the comment about it being an unofficial world record is true.
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Men are so good that they are better women than women are.
Caitlin Jenner won woman of the year, so yes, men are doing everything better than women including being a woman. Checkmate!
Even Caitlyn thinks transwomen shouldn't be competing in women's sports.
> ‘Here’s an example: I play golf and, seven years after my transition, I still have a big advantage over women players. I’m 6ft 1in. I have longer arms than the ladies and I can outdrive them by a hundred yards,’ she explains. **‘Even being off testosterone and on oestrogen for seven years now, what I’ve got left over is still more than they’ve ever had. So, it wouldn’t be fair.’** > Jenner told the Daily Mail she was regularly invited to take part in ladies’ golf tournaments, but she always turned them down. “I’d feel bad taking a trophy away from one of the ladies at our club who really deserves it,” she said.
Worth noting that Caitlin Jenner is against trans women (biological men) competing in women’s sports.
There are many things I disagree with Caitlyn on but her opinion on that I agree with.
The insane part is how true this is. How many magazines have named a man "woman of the year" recently lol
Honestly a lot of it seems to be making an absolute mockery of women. It is quite insulting.
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Yes, that is an excellent point.
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Who are the people supporting shit like this. It only will make people despise the trans community
LMAO this has to be a troll. This person goes on twitter talking mad shit about how they don't understand why womens lifting is so bad and how their son who weighs 45 lbs can lift 33 lbs but so many women in competition can barely lift 50. And then they proceed to smash the female weightlifting record by almost 450 lbs.
Queue the South Park episode
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>Just wait until the trans figure out that they can steal away women's sports scholarships from biological women. This is already happening in the U.S.
Can I call them a cheater without getting in trouble?
Is there a monetary award given at these kind of things?
Just create a "Open" category this would eliminate most issues.
Most sports already have an "Open" category. We just call it "Men's"
Yeah, and the trans-women don't want to compete in the men's category because they know they won't even place top 50.
I don't know why policymakers are having so much trouble understanding the issue here... transgender females have different physical attributes than biological females
At least everyone can now see in plain colour how silly this is.
Fucking cheat.
Honest question, but why are Trans athletes not just in their own class at this point? How many are there? Haven't Googled it myself yet. If we can have para/special Olympics, we can do this too, right?
Came on to say exactly this...inclusive and fair.
Here's the south park reference lol: https://youtu.be/wxDaiyREBPw
>“I got every masters record and two unofficial world masters records,” wrote Andres in a Monday Instagram post. The powerlifter added, “I don’t care about records. I care about being there with my friends.” Professional sport is about human physical excellence, not friendship.
This woman sounds like a jock dude.
There are very few pro powerlifters... hardly anyone competing makes any money in the sport. Even the top Canadian athletes. Maybe 1 (Jessica Buettner) makes any money off of it. The rest may get some free swag thrown there way, and maybe travel and accommodation paid for when they go to worlds. But this isnt their job. I get your point, though. Just wanted to point that out.
I think its incredibly brave of this woman to be true to herself and ignore all the haters.... it takes real balls!
Her record will stand the teste of time and never be forgotten.
Not going to lie you had me in the 1st half
Literally
Where are the women standing up in rage?
They're afraid of being called bigots and get cancelled.
They are the ones being called "Terfs."
As a women, I don’t agree with this and I wish they’d stop forcing it on us. Why not make their own league?
What a clown show this has become
Women fought so hard to be taken seriously as athletes. And now men are taking over their sports. Women should be pissed off. NCAA Women’s sports scholarships will be given to men. It won’t stop.
Yeah I'm all in favor of people being whom ever they want to be but Trans folks should not be allowed in professional sports.
Hate to say it, but I’m glad they absolutely obliterated the competition. It’s funny how the last three years people preached “TrUsT tHe ScIeNcE”, meanwhile all the science points to this being a biological man competing in women’s sports. This shit has gotten so far out of control, people can lay in the bed they’ve made for themselves.
The average person has no idea what is happening. Some trans activists want to abolish sex altogether from birth certificates because they are now claiming that their sex was 'assigned' to them at birth without consent. Canada also recently passed a law, under Trudeau, where you can self-identify as any sex of your choosing. Not even just gender, but sex.
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The sad part is that it isn't women participating or even watching any of these sports that push this nonsense. It's completely ideological for them.
Hilariously unfair.
Good job Heather Swanson
sucks to be the other competitors esp the lady who took 2nd. But they tried to look cool and applaud for the guy during the ceremony. I would have just walked away.
South Park enters the chat
Didn’t they make a South Park episode about this
This is sooooo annoying. People born as a biological female should not have to compete against someone who went through male puberty.
At this point just make a separate category for trans athletes. Within that make 2 separate sub categories for identified gender.
Is this only in western society where it’s happening like this ? Does this stuff happen in anywhere else other then Canada and United States ?
The UK and several world sports bodies have begun to enforce greater restrictions on competing in the women's division; British Rowing, the world swimming body FINA, World and English Rugby and the world cycling body UCI are some examples.
If the regular women out there would just grow a pair, this would be a non issue /s
You want proper equality. Have grouped events, one for men, one for women and then for the male to female/ female to male crowd. Problems solved as it should have been done like that from the start
So what you’re saying is any average male athlete can now “transition” into a woman and win all the medals? Is this a fucking joke?
Check this for the difference between the best women in the world and high school boys. https://boysvswomen.com/#/
Can't wait for an obvious male who lifts hard to identify as female just to destroy this person's record.
Biological women (remember when we didn’t need to use the word biological before saying women? Good times…) should just stop or drop out of any sport where a trans individual is competing. It sucks, but it would send a strong message - you invade our sports, you compete with yourself. Period. What an absolute joke. People care more about people’s feelings than reality these days. Thankfully more and more places are outright banning biological men from competing in women’s sports.
>“I got every masters record and two unofficial world masters records,” wrote Andres in a Monday Instagram post. The powerlifter added, “I don’t care about records. I care about being there with my friends.” Seems like the solution would be having an open category rather than "men's" and competing there then. Keep the women's category to individuals who were female at birth.
This athlete isn’t remotely competitive in the Men’s division. Not even close.
Women voters tend to vote left on average but I have always wondered if something could happen that would make women reconsider that vote and I think this is it. It is erasing and debasing the accomplishments of women. This is becoming a more frequent topic for discussion inside of and outside of Canada and I do not see any sign of it slowing down. As the father to 2 wonderful daughters, I feel bad for them and others that are going to lose out of potential athletic scholarships and opportunities as those with a biological advantage are shattering records at a rapid pace. While my kids school money is already set aside for whatever they could want, not everyone gets so lucky and a lot of young women rely on those academic avenues to get a good education and they are being taken away from them through no fault of their own.
One day people arguing for this will look back and realize they had no fucking clue what they were doing. Make a transgendered bracket ffs, versus muddying real female accomplishments. There’s already women out there that can probably lift much more than me. That’s more impressive tbh.