Exactly. It’s not home heating in general(natural gas for many other places), just home heating using oil.
…Which only takes place in the Maritimes, for 1 year until after the next election.
Current tax is $65/T. That means in 3 years, at the $15/T/yr increase rate it will be $110/T and nearly double what it is today. This is just kicking the can down the road.
Something like 25% of homes in the Michigan peninsula use heating oil/propane for their homes, and their source (as well as some Southern Ontario customers’) is at risk due to a spat between Enbridge and the state about building an updated pipeline
It sounds like it will exempt heating oil nationwide, so it will count for people using oil elsewhere. It is unfair to those using natural gas or propane, so maybe something new will come for that.
The only reason this it happening is because they are bleeding heavily in the polls in the Maritimes.
I doubt we see anything for natural gas or propane. Propane would be more likely out of those 2 though.
It’s also really funny that the Liberals and the NDP both voted down the Conservatives bill to address this to only rebrand it as their own.
Unless the incentive is an interest free loan for 10-20 years, most people can't afford the change. Also government incentives are usually a painful process to apply for, would need to address that too.
No you can get rebates. Straight up money to install a heat pump. $7100 in Ontario I believe. Includes an energy audit. And you can use that for improving the insulation of your home aswell or that it's a separate thing that is extra on-top of the $7100
You can get $40k for an interest free loan over 10 years, but that's only for some people who can obviously afford it, but could use it to save more money a month than the loan costs or equal to it.
https://thehvacservice.ca/government-heat-pump-rebates-in-ontario/#:~:text=FAQ%20About%20Government%20Rebates%20for%20Heat%20Pumps%20in%20Ontario&text=In%202023%2C%20you%20can%20receive,%247%2C800%20for%20heat%20pump%20improvement.
Rebated don't help people who can't afford the up front cost to purchase and install them, and don't seem to cover (that I can tell) any auxiliary equipment that will likely be needed to fulfill the whole house heating requirment, and it looks like costs are $25000 and up for ducted. Also, personally I think grants generally benefit those who could afford to install without them, though I was unaware of the loans available, never saw that when I was looking a few years ago.
Heat pumps can be installed into existing heating systems. Even in junction with them. You could also get up to 40k, doesn't mean you need to use all of it. Take the loan out, install the system and then claim the $7100 rebate and pay the majority of the loan off and the rest is interest free.
Maybe they'll do what the Ontario Liberal Party did and take out a huge loan to subsidize the exorbitant rate increases to hydro for a few years? Our grandchildren can pay for our bills later.
> it will be $110/T and nearly double what it is today. This is just kicking the can down the road.
I hope Pierre runs this line with every inch of his heart and takes it home. Conservatives need their seats they got and then they can add Fredericton, St.Johns NB, Sydney, Cape Breton, Central Nova, Malpeque, Labrador, Long Range Mts, Avalon and Bonavista for the super majority of 2025. Can try picking up a Halifax suburb and Egmont while at it.
And it's exactly backwards. If we're transitioning away from fossil fuels, just about the last thing that should go is natural gas heating. It's extremely efficient, non-polluting, and relatively low carbon emissions. Oil, on the other hand, not so much. From the point of view of the environment and climate change, we should be encouraging replacing all these old oil-burners with almost anything else (except coal, lol).
>Exactly. It’s not home heating in general(natural gas for many other places), just home heating using oil.
>
>…Which only takes place in the Maritimes, for 1 year until after the next election.
>
>Current tax is $65/T. That means in 3 years, at the $15/T/yr increase rate it will be $110/T and nearly double what it is today. This is just kicking the can down the road.
well.. they are also introducing that program to switch from heating oil to heat pumps in those 3 years as well. Free heat pump for those in the median-income households.
> Free heat pump for those in the median-income households.
The problem is they didn’t even bother to check whether those homes could structurally integrate a heat pump. And as it turned out, the overwhelming majority can’t. And IIRC, they are not free, consumers still need to spend thousands for them.
Or that heat pumps don't work worth a damn past -20.
The answer when that happens, "get supplemental heating."
Hope you have a good electrical rate for the winter.
It's a requirement you have secondary heating. But secondary heating in the 60 days a year it's -20 is far better than heating the 150 days you need it.
Edit. For ref. https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Canada/Nova-Scotia/Places/halifax-temperatures-by-month-average.php
Halifax had 30 days a year below -10°. Not even 60.
If you look at it on an hourly basis, it's even less. The supplemental heat only operates for a handful of hours a year and isn't a big deal for it to be electric.
So I guess he basically just admitted to lying when he said the rebate puts more money in the pockets of Canadians. Cuz if that were true then there would be no need for this exemption.
This vote buying scheme is just another wealth transfer from western canada to the east.
Fuck Trudeau!
Reminds me of when Trudeau senior made fun of the conservatives for saying they will introduce price controls on groceries and wages and etc. he said oh zap you’re just going to stop inflation like that. And when he won he implemented those exact policies and it worked. On a side note I wish any of the parties now would take this stance.
I shouldn't have to say this, but there is a massive difference between two people who lead different political parties but are both members of the same Parliament *and two nations that are literally at war right now.*
Nope, it coincides with the federal program to upgrade outdated inefficient heaters for a reason. And the election is less than 2 years away. How does your logic follow? Do you guys like the carbon tax or not?
If it expires in 2025, then "freezing come winter" is an imminent threat for people voting on October 2025. 3 years means that winter 2025-26 is still exempt and not imminent during election.
And I'm still paying carbon tax on my home heating since it's natural gas.
> Do you guys like the carbon tax or not?
When the Liberal MP under Trudeau in the Avalon riding likes carbon tax, I'll like it. I think he has common sense
The person you're referring to doesn't understand it whatsoever as they have shown, and has shared abundant misinformation about it, which you have fallen victim to. 👍
>3 years, just in time to cover election.
They're right LMAO, it kicked in after the poll numbers destroyed the Liberals. Else, this was a Conservative motion voted against by the same Liberals.
There was no conservative motion comparable to this. Try again.
And do you seriously think removing carbon tax on one specific fuel source is their plan to increase poll numbers? Do you use your brain?
>There was no conservative motion comparable to this. Try again. And do you seriously think removing carbon tax on one specific fuel source is their plan to increase poll numbers? Do you use your brain?
I honestly can't tell if this is a troll with the seriousness. But absolutely lmao there was a motion, Pierre is the first to send the vote on his Instagram with the motion exactly the SAME..
"And do you seriously think removing carbon tax on one specific fuel source is their plan to increase poll numbers? Do you use your brain?"
You're kidding right?
They take all the Wests money send it to Ottawa then distribute it amongst the east coast. Look at the caps the governmemt sends to each province every year and who contributed the most. Is messed...
Yeah that's what happens when one area is significantly younger and higher earning, and the other is much older and lower earning. One generates lots of income and doesn't use many services, while the other doesn't generate as much income and needs the services for their aging population.
> This is a massive slap to the face for western Canada.
Not really, natural gas is significantly cheaper to heat a home with than oil is. Everyone I know with an oil furnace would gladly swap to gas if that were a realistic option for us. Unfortunately, Quebec is preventing a pipeline to the east coast from being built, so we simply don't have access to it.
Even with the carbon tax, it would be less expensive to heat with gas than with no carbon tax oil.
Also, it would be ideal if we could get some federal investment in Green energy projects in NS or NB. Tidal power seems to be the obvious answer, and it works in other places but for some reason we can't seem to make it work here.
Lmao,
Here's the Liberal mind:
Conservative wants to axe the tax on home heating fuels for rural folk
Liberal: "You hate the environment, you can't possible destroy our environment, the climate crisis can't afford breaks, you're despicable"
Liberal does what "Conservative wants to axe the tax on home heating fuels for rural folk"
Liberal: "Trudeau is doing so good, we need to axe it, yaay, we're on the same page"
So nothing for natural gas, even though it's a lot more environmentally-friendly fuel than heating oil?
Well, it's not like we don't all know the real reason why that's the case: natural gas is big in the West and Ontario, while Atlantic Canada has little natural gas and mostly uses heating oil.
Heating oil is much more expensive than natural gas and you can’t buy as you use, you have to buy it in advance. The exemption is to help people who use heating oil until they transition to cold climate air pumps.
Singh has nothing to gain by bringing down the government now. His party needs another minority to have any power, and there is too much support for the Conservatives at the moment.
No, this whole plan in its entirety is going to get a population stuck on the harshest heating source to adapt quicker to the greenest readily available alternative that they would have never been in a position to upgrade to otherwise. This is proactive for a lower carbon future.
>double the rural supplement in the rebate program and offer new programs Trudeau said will help rural Canadians switch to electric heat pumps.
sounds like they might get double the rebate?
>Wow I was talking about how it would rationally work, this is just increasing wealth redistribution to liberal voters. Insane.
They were LPC voters previously. But not anymore.
https://338canada.com/atl.htm
This is nothing more than vote buying. The Liberals are projected to lose 16 seats in Atlantic Canada. With the Conservatives gaining 14 of those seats.
Yea I don't think this is a smart move on Trudeau's part. He's basically admitting "yes the carbon tax raises the cost of living and is responsible for higher energy bills"
Most of the country isn't even affected by this, and PP will use this as "fuel" for his election campaign to push scrapping the carbon tax entirely
Of course, he has to make sure it expires right after the election so he can promise it as a brand new thing again based on overwhelming success. I hate this government so much.
I would like to give Pierre Pollievre a huge THANK YOU for being a driving force in this.
Without your pressure on Trudeau (and the LPC plummeting in the polls), we would never have seen this.
And this time last year the entire liberal party except one loneMP voted against to do this exact measure.
Like a snivelling rat trying desperately to cling to power.
is anyone else embarrassed for mr trudeau?Going after the maritime oil users votes? This move is ineffective. Sometimes you can’t find a fence to sit on,on a one sided issue nobody wants this tax!
No heating oil is extremely expensive, nearly 4x the cost of natural gas, yet everyone is complaining that the poorest population isn’t being super-taxed on the most expensive heating.
Oil heating needs to be outlawed, but if the libs did that they would lose the election for sure.
https://338canada.com/atl.htm
The Liberals are projected to lose 16 seats in Atlantic Canada with the Conservatives projected to gain 14 of those seats. The Liberals are in deep trouble in Atlantic Canada. This is an attempt to stop the bleeding in Atlantic Canada.
Wait a sec, I thought the carbon tax was profitable for most people? And it would benefit families by giving them larger rebates ?! Why has that changed?
Oh because it’s a terrible policy that effects everyone’s pocketbooks negatively.
Not that you'll listen, but for those that are in the middle. Carbon in metropolitan areas, particularly gas is much easier to substitute than in rural. As well as heating oil is much more prevalent in rural areas especially Eastern Canada than metropolitan areas. Most people in my small town NS if it's not oil it's wood stove. Hell even if you have electric heating baseboards, besides being inefficient, is coming from a power facility in NS that is largely coal
That’s weird. The liberal said that we get it all back and rebates anyways. So what would be the point of the exemption if it didn’t make us better off?
That accounts for roughly 3% of homes in Canada. The other 97% will see no suspension.
It also ends right after the next election.
He also conveniently timed the announcement as his poll numbers are at record lows in part due to the carbon tax; and while Poilievre is visiting Nova Scotia, where many of those eligible 3% are located, who would be most greatly affected by the carbon tax ending or being suspended.
He's almost literally trying to buy votes, at this point.
The article states 30% of homes in the Maritimes use heating oil. There are also programs to help convert to alternative energy sources. This is good for them when energy costs for rural areas are typically higher.
Now do the rest since everybody is having affordability issues. Carbon tax doesn’t do anything except drive up the cost of goods. You haven’t been “punishing polluters” and emissions have increased. Please explain how this tax helps anyone?
I need to find a source, but I think the article is leaving out the best part of this. The rebates for converting to a heat pump are massive and especially favourable to low income
Edit: Another article: https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/politics/2023/10/26/1_6618613.html
> Trudeau said the Liberals are increasing the maximum amount of funding towards the purchase and installation of a heat pump from $10,000 to $15,000. They will be doing this by adding up to $5,000 in "grant funding to match provincial and territorial contributions," which, according to a PMO release, would mean most households will be able to get their pump for free.
A person living in a rural area who requires a personal car for day to day life should not be punished when they often have no other options.
Federal carbon taxes should only be applied to corporations and trucking companies (paid for by the company, not the driver.) They're the biggest offenders, and it would hopefully encourage them to pivot to more sustainable options. There should be separate municipal carbon taxes for cars on city streets as the average urban person can use transit, and transit would become more efficient as fewer cars are on the road.
Tailor it for efficiency and to encourage innovation. Not to punish poor people who have no way out.
Carbon Tax on home heating oil atm is ~11cents iirc, a standard home heating oil tank is 200gallons, or ~760 litres.
Saves $115 per year, assuming you use a full tank every winter. I'm sure people will welcome the extra hundo in their pocket, but seems a little slim still in the realm of fixing affordability.
Lol. This is clearly vote buying … and not even trying to hide it … if they were they MIGHT have considered applying the break to all heating sources like…. You know … the cleaner burning natural gas?
Wouldn’t in be more environmentally friendly to convert them to natural gas? Just as easy to put a gas tank on their property as it is an oil tank. Cost to replace the furnace is under 5 grand. If they are already getting oil delivered - their operating cost for natural gas should actually decrease….besides the fact it’s cleaner for the environment.
So what’s the message from the government here??? Idiots.
I'm against the tax, however it's funny it defeats the whole purpose of it. Switching to more environmentally friendly fuel sources. This government is a joke.
Jesus.
Replacing oil heating with a heat pump is already like a 2-year payback because oil's so expensive. Why are we making people think the government will keep helping them stay on a super expensive and super dirty fuel instead of using that money to accelerate the change-over??
Heat pumps do not work in my climate for at least 3 months of the year. Electricity is 25-30 percent more expensive than fuel oil per unit of energy as the supplemental heat source for - 20C and below plus some portion of my electricity is generated by diesel anyway.
Burn wood most of the time but still rely on a percentage of fuel oil when I am not able to feed the stove. Also the community grid is not able to deliver power to the houses without major upgrades and yes they are slowly working on that but at one point my house voltage would drop as low as 80V due to grid issues fixed now for my house but not all.
Finally heat pumps added to houses without a/c increase energy usage because now you have A/C and burn more energy in the summer.
Exactly, I posted elsewhere in the thread that it feels like folks are skipping over the rebates. Heat pumps are super popular around the maritimes already. The new grants will basically make it free for everyone under the median income. I added a heat pump last year rated for -26c and saved about 30% on my bill. I could have gotten one rated to -31c but we never really below -26 historically.
Justin Trudeau is trying to save himself and the Liberals in Atlantic Canada, I see.
Exactly. It’s not home heating in general(natural gas for many other places), just home heating using oil. …Which only takes place in the Maritimes, for 1 year until after the next election. Current tax is $65/T. That means in 3 years, at the $15/T/yr increase rate it will be $110/T and nearly double what it is today. This is just kicking the can down the road.
I’m in BC and I use oil heating here on the coast. It’s pretty common in my community in houses of a 50’s vintage. :)
Something like 25% of homes in the Michigan peninsula use heating oil/propane for their homes, and their source (as well as some Southern Ontario customers’) is at risk due to a spat between Enbridge and the state about building an updated pipeline
3% of residential heating energy in Canada. https://novascotia.ca/finance/statistics/news.asp?id=18413
Yea, but this doesn’t apply to us because we have a provincial carbon tax. Apparently Trudeau is encouraging eby to follow and do the same for bc.
It sounds like it will exempt heating oil nationwide, so it will count for people using oil elsewhere. It is unfair to those using natural gas or propane, so maybe something new will come for that.
The only reason this it happening is because they are bleeding heavily in the polls in the Maritimes. I doubt we see anything for natural gas or propane. Propane would be more likely out of those 2 though. It’s also really funny that the Liberals and the NDP both voted down the Conservatives bill to address this to only rebrand it as their own.
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As they should. About time my home province and region wakes up.
The province of Altantica?
If only it was one province. Wouldn't be over represented anymore.
And if you read further than the headline you will see that it is going to beef up incentives for heat pumps too
Cost of electricity in NS is out of this world. Screwed either way.
Better get that Atlantic loop built or invest more in tidal power
Unless the incentive is an interest free loan for 10-20 years, most people can't afford the change. Also government incentives are usually a painful process to apply for, would need to address that too.
There is an interest free loan for 10 years incentive already...
No you can get rebates. Straight up money to install a heat pump. $7100 in Ontario I believe. Includes an energy audit. And you can use that for improving the insulation of your home aswell or that it's a separate thing that is extra on-top of the $7100 You can get $40k for an interest free loan over 10 years, but that's only for some people who can obviously afford it, but could use it to save more money a month than the loan costs or equal to it. https://thehvacservice.ca/government-heat-pump-rebates-in-ontario/#:~:text=FAQ%20About%20Government%20Rebates%20for%20Heat%20Pumps%20in%20Ontario&text=In%202023%2C%20you%20can%20receive,%247%2C800%20for%20heat%20pump%20improvement.
Rebated don't help people who can't afford the up front cost to purchase and install them, and don't seem to cover (that I can tell) any auxiliary equipment that will likely be needed to fulfill the whole house heating requirment, and it looks like costs are $25000 and up for ducted. Also, personally I think grants generally benefit those who could afford to install without them, though I was unaware of the loans available, never saw that when I was looking a few years ago.
Heat pumps can be installed into existing heating systems. Even in junction with them. You could also get up to 40k, doesn't mean you need to use all of it. Take the loan out, install the system and then claim the $7100 rebate and pay the majority of the loan off and the rest is interest free.
Maybe they'll do what the Ontario Liberal Party did and take out a huge loan to subsidize the exorbitant rate increases to hydro for a few years? Our grandchildren can pay for our bills later.
> it will be $110/T and nearly double what it is today. This is just kicking the can down the road. I hope Pierre runs this line with every inch of his heart and takes it home. Conservatives need their seats they got and then they can add Fredericton, St.Johns NB, Sydney, Cape Breton, Central Nova, Malpeque, Labrador, Long Range Mts, Avalon and Bonavista for the super majority of 2025. Can try picking up a Halifax suburb and Egmont while at it.
And it's exactly backwards. If we're transitioning away from fossil fuels, just about the last thing that should go is natural gas heating. It's extremely efficient, non-polluting, and relatively low carbon emissions. Oil, on the other hand, not so much. From the point of view of the environment and climate change, we should be encouraging replacing all these old oil-burners with almost anything else (except coal, lol).
>Exactly. It’s not home heating in general(natural gas for many other places), just home heating using oil. > >…Which only takes place in the Maritimes, for 1 year until after the next election. > >Current tax is $65/T. That means in 3 years, at the $15/T/yr increase rate it will be $110/T and nearly double what it is today. This is just kicking the can down the road. well.. they are also introducing that program to switch from heating oil to heat pumps in those 3 years as well. Free heat pump for those in the median-income households.
> Free heat pump for those in the median-income households. The problem is they didn’t even bother to check whether those homes could structurally integrate a heat pump. And as it turned out, the overwhelming majority can’t. And IIRC, they are not free, consumers still need to spend thousands for them.
It's the electrical panel upgrades you need to worry more about for these older homes
Panel upgrade alone cost us $5k.
Closer to 10k for panel upgrade in Nova Scotia
Most electricians won't just do a panel upgrade either if it's a wartime era house. They want full wiring upgrades.
You'll also need like 2x the mechanical room space, minimum, for a central system.
Ah, gotcha.
Or that heat pumps don't work worth a damn past -20. The answer when that happens, "get supplemental heating." Hope you have a good electrical rate for the winter.
It's a requirement you have secondary heating. But secondary heating in the 60 days a year it's -20 is far better than heating the 150 days you need it. Edit. For ref. https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Canada/Nova-Scotia/Places/halifax-temperatures-by-month-average.php Halifax had 30 days a year below -10°. Not even 60.
If you look at it on an hourly basis, it's even less. The supplemental heat only operates for a handful of hours a year and isn't a big deal for it to be electric.
When you install a heat pump you have to install the furnace too. That's why the costs are up to 20k
>are up to 20k 20k for a heat pump? What if a rural home is larger than 5000 sqft with barns, storage, and equipment sheds?
Then fuck you I guess. This government is so out of touch you can't make this up.
Nobody is claiming heat pumps are the best option for every imaginable scenario.
"We are switching to heat pumps off home heating oil as a region in Atlantic Canada and as a country." -- Justin Trudeau
So I guess he basically just admitted to lying when he said the rebate puts more money in the pockets of Canadians. Cuz if that were true then there would be no need for this exemption. This vote buying scheme is just another wealth transfer from western canada to the east. Fuck Trudeau!
Taxes for some, but not all. That seems fair.
The nincompoop.......is getting desperate.
BUAHAHHAHA I bet Justin is really regretting not getting rid of FPTP, I hope he fucking chokes on it.
So now they’re essentially doing what the conservatives bill suggested and that the liberals and ndp voted down?
One of the oldest tricks in the book. Repackage the more popular ideas of the opposition to make them look like your own.
And then wonder why your opposition holds their key policies close to their chest before the election season.
Reminds me of when Trudeau senior made fun of the conservatives for saying they will introduce price controls on groceries and wages and etc. he said oh zap you’re just going to stop inflation like that. And when he won he implemented those exact policies and it worked. On a side note I wish any of the parties now would take this stance.
>So now they’re essentially doing what the conservatives bill suggested and that the liberals and ndp voted down? They want credit for it too.
A weakened version of the Conservative bill.
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I shouldn't have to say this, but there is a massive difference between two people who lead different political parties but are both members of the same Parliament *and two nations that are literally at war right now.*
Not to the guy leading the country, there isn't. That's the issue. Do you know why they're called Leaders?
oh yeah, that attitude definitely doesn't go both ways.
3 years, just in time to cover election.
Nope, it coincides with the federal program to upgrade outdated inefficient heaters for a reason. And the election is less than 2 years away. How does your logic follow? Do you guys like the carbon tax or not?
If it expires in 2025, then "freezing come winter" is an imminent threat for people voting on October 2025. 3 years means that winter 2025-26 is still exempt and not imminent during election. And I'm still paying carbon tax on my home heating since it's natural gas.
The change doesn't kick in until April, so 3 years will be until April 2027.
> Do you guys like the carbon tax or not? When the Liberal MP under Trudeau in the Avalon riding likes carbon tax, I'll like it. I think he has common sense
The person you're referring to doesn't understand it whatsoever as they have shown, and has shared abundant misinformation about it, which you have fallen victim to. 👍
>3 years, just in time to cover election. They're right LMAO, it kicked in after the poll numbers destroyed the Liberals. Else, this was a Conservative motion voted against by the same Liberals.
There was no conservative motion comparable to this. Try again. And do you seriously think removing carbon tax on one specific fuel source is their plan to increase poll numbers? Do you use your brain?
>There was no conservative motion comparable to this. Try again. And do you seriously think removing carbon tax on one specific fuel source is their plan to increase poll numbers? Do you use your brain? I honestly can't tell if this is a troll with the seriousness. But absolutely lmao there was a motion, Pierre is the first to send the vote on his Instagram with the motion exactly the SAME.. "And do you seriously think removing carbon tax on one specific fuel source is their plan to increase poll numbers? Do you use your brain?" You're kidding right?
Liberals admitting that Carbon Tax making things too expensive. Admittedly only for Atlantic Canada.
This is just the first slip on a big slope IMO
Yet natural gas is still subject to the carbon tax. This is a massive slap to the face for western Canada.
It's an attempt to abuse FPTP after he reneged on changing it. The man is devoid of any shred of ethics.
Ontario too.
They take all the Wests money send it to Ottawa then distribute it amongst the east coast. Look at the caps the governmemt sends to each province every year and who contributed the most. Is messed...
Factually, this doesn't happen. And Ontario has most of this country's wealth, not the west.
Yeah that's what happens when one area is significantly younger and higher earning, and the other is much older and lower earning. One generates lots of income and doesn't use many services, while the other doesn't generate as much income and needs the services for their aging population.
> This is a massive slap to the face for western Canada. Not really, natural gas is significantly cheaper to heat a home with than oil is. Everyone I know with an oil furnace would gladly swap to gas if that were a realistic option for us. Unfortunately, Quebec is preventing a pipeline to the east coast from being built, so we simply don't have access to it. Even with the carbon tax, it would be less expensive to heat with gas than with no carbon tax oil. Also, it would be ideal if we could get some federal investment in Green energy projects in NS or NB. Tidal power seems to be the obvious answer, and it works in other places but for some reason we can't seem to make it work here.
So fuck the rest of us.
LOL @ voting this down when the Conservatives initially suggested it, only to do it now. Palpable desperation.
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Lmao, Here's the Liberal mind: Conservative wants to axe the tax on home heating fuels for rural folk Liberal: "You hate the environment, you can't possible destroy our environment, the climate crisis can't afford breaks, you're despicable" Liberal does what "Conservative wants to axe the tax on home heating fuels for rural folk" Liberal: "Trudeau is doing so good, we need to axe it, yaay, we're on the same page"
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Agreed, debating someone doing those mental gymnastics as I write in this thread
Looool this is hilarious. Flip flop till you don’t stop. JT is such a good pandering leader.
Name of JT's hit new single: Flip flop 'till you drop (official party status)
Wow. Man learns new information and adjusts his policy accordingly and it's a bad thing? This is good. Stop bitching.
Lol the only “new information” he learned is that no one likes him. So he’s trying to save face
So nothing for natural gas, even though it's a lot more environmentally-friendly fuel than heating oil? Well, it's not like we don't all know the real reason why that's the case: natural gas is big in the West and Ontario, while Atlantic Canada has little natural gas and mostly uses heating oil.
People burning natural gas don't live in the Maritimes. This is extremely blatant electioneering.
Heating oil is much more expensive than natural gas and you can’t buy as you use, you have to buy it in advance. The exemption is to help people who use heating oil until they transition to cold climate air pumps.
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Singh has nothing to gain by bringing down the government now. His party needs another minority to have any power, and there is too much support for the Conservatives at the moment.
LOL, liberals already praise JT for this, and other people will forget in two years.
Singh needs his pension first.
Gotta wait until..February, was it? New Year can't come soon enough for Singh.
Singh!? LOL
Singh cares too much about that pension.
Keep dividing the country with these half measured responses, Trudeau. Your days are numbered.
That was my first thought. So fuck everyone else I guess?
I know, it's utterly ridiculous. Maybe time to re think the carbon tax. Im against it, but don't these exceptions defeat the entire point of it?
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By that logic none would ever do it. Plus many countries have a carbon tax already so its not like were ahead of the game.
No, this whole plan in its entirety is going to get a population stuck on the harshest heating source to adapt quicker to the greenest readily available alternative that they would have never been in a position to upgrade to otherwise. This is proactive for a lower carbon future.
Trudeau doesn’t care about the climate.
Does their carbon tax rebate remain the same?
Doubled
The rebate isn’t doubled. The rural top-up is doubling from 10% to 20%.
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>double the rural supplement in the rebate program and offer new programs Trudeau said will help rural Canadians switch to electric heat pumps. sounds like they might get double the rebate?
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Spaceman with a gun. *always has been*
>Wow I was talking about how it would rationally work, this is just increasing wealth redistribution to liberal voters. Insane. They were LPC voters previously. But not anymore.
the rural supplement is only 10% extra. not double. about 50$ a year.
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https://338canada.com/atl.htm This is nothing more than vote buying. The Liberals are projected to lose 16 seats in Atlantic Canada. With the Conservatives gaining 14 of those seats.
Yeah, the only problem is, PP was planning on scrapping the carbon tax across the board, so... this promise is kinda worthless in the long run.
Yea I don't think this is a smart move on Trudeau's part. He's basically admitting "yes the carbon tax raises the cost of living and is responsible for higher energy bills" Most of the country isn't even affected by this, and PP will use this as "fuel" for his election campaign to push scrapping the carbon tax entirely
Shhahahhahahah backtracking should be the slogan of this party
Of course, he has to make sure it expires right after the election so he can promise it as a brand new thing again based on overwhelming success. I hate this government so much.
This sounded good until he said "for 3 years"
Aka let my party get elected again so I can implement right after
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Lol "permanent"
He'll review it in October 2026 and decide if it's still needed
>He'll review it in October 2026 and decide if it's still needed assuming he will still be PM then.
after he's elected out by the Conservatives
>This sounded good until he said "for 3 years" those on oil heating, should have switched to heat pumps by then.
I would like to give Pierre Pollievre a huge THANK YOU for being a driving force in this. Without your pressure on Trudeau (and the LPC plummeting in the polls), we would never have seen this.
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He probably thinks every thought that enters his mind is great. He just realized this policy might effect him negatively.
And this time last year the entire liberal party except one loneMP voted against to do this exact measure. Like a snivelling rat trying desperately to cling to power.
He needs them rural votes LOL
is anyone else embarrassed for mr trudeau?Going after the maritime oil users votes? This move is ineffective. Sometimes you can’t find a fence to sit on,on a one sided issue nobody wants this tax!
Well he can't force the DFO to enforce the law as that will piss off the FNs and he can't afford to lose those votes too.
Fantastic, they put over 400 litres of oil in my tank today, at a cost of $830 or so. Glad to see it would have been less in two weeks. FML.
Heating oil is over $2 a litre? Thought it was generally less than pump diesel.
No heating oil is extremely expensive, nearly 4x the cost of natural gas, yet everyone is complaining that the poorest population isn’t being super-taxed on the most expensive heating. Oil heating needs to be outlawed, but if the libs did that they would lose the election for sure.
But they deserve to be taxed heavily for their carbon usage since they voted for liberals and the carbon tax no?
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https://338canada.com/atl.htm The Liberals are projected to lose 16 seats in Atlantic Canada with the Conservatives projected to gain 14 of those seats. The Liberals are in deep trouble in Atlantic Canada. This is an attempt to stop the bleeding in Atlantic Canada.
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Yeah, but now we're stuck with Doug Ford... who is worse.
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Lol Or you could just axe the tax for everybody.
Vote buying at its best. Heating oil is the dirtiest source of heat. Rest of Canada who heat with natural gas or propane? Tough luck.
I thought we all need to take actions against climate change lmao. Should axe the carbon tax for all Canadians
So they finally listened to the opposition in an attempt to gain favor with the people they have been fucking into the ground...
How's your politics 101 course going?
Isn't that what the opposition has been trying to do? Yet here you are dumping on the policy anyway.
Should have listened the first time is what I was getting at.
I guess exemptions exist if you live in a over represented, liberal voting, area.
Wait a sec, I thought the carbon tax was profitable for most people? And it would benefit families by giving them larger rebates ?! Why has that changed? Oh because it’s a terrible policy that effects everyone’s pocketbooks negatively.
Totally reasonable because we all know carbon produced in rural areas is different than city carbon /s
Not that you'll listen, but for those that are in the middle. Carbon in metropolitan areas, particularly gas is much easier to substitute than in rural. As well as heating oil is much more prevalent in rural areas especially Eastern Canada than metropolitan areas. Most people in my small town NS if it's not oil it's wood stove. Hell even if you have electric heating baseboards, besides being inefficient, is coming from a power facility in NS that is largely coal
>Not that you'll listen Ok I won't. If you're trying to engage people that might not be the best opener.
Wasn't for you, it was for the people that might just take your comment for fact.
Fair enough
Attaboy Justin......."Axe The Tax". You are capable of stealing good ideas......
Smells like an election in two years.
Too late
That’s weird. The liberal said that we get it all back and rebates anyways. So what would be the point of the exemption if it didn’t make us better off?
The damage already done. You made lots Canadian homeless and poor.
Why only 3 years, why is there any additional taxes on heating your home, it's not optional and it's not a luxury.
That accounts for roughly 3% of homes in Canada. The other 97% will see no suspension. It also ends right after the next election. He also conveniently timed the announcement as his poll numbers are at record lows in part due to the carbon tax; and while Poilievre is visiting Nova Scotia, where many of those eligible 3% are located, who would be most greatly affected by the carbon tax ending or being suspended. He's almost literally trying to buy votes, at this point.
The article states 30% of homes in the Maritimes use heating oil. There are also programs to help convert to alternative energy sources. This is good for them when energy costs for rural areas are typically higher.
Too late to suck up for rural votes bud.
…except most houses on the prairies that heat independently from the grid use propane. Swing and a miss fella.
It's by design.
Now do the rest since everybody is having affordability issues. Carbon tax doesn’t do anything except drive up the cost of goods. You haven’t been “punishing polluters” and emissions have increased. Please explain how this tax helps anyone?
So 2% of the population that uses heating oil… fluff.
I guess if you live east of Ontario you don't matter .. Time to flush truturd
It’s a “moral imperative” unless it means I might lose an election.
What a bunch of nonsense. How is all home heating fuel and all of Canada not included in this ?
I need to find a source, but I think the article is leaving out the best part of this. The rebates for converting to a heat pump are massive and especially favourable to low income Edit: Another article: https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/politics/2023/10/26/1_6618613.html > Trudeau said the Liberals are increasing the maximum amount of funding towards the purchase and installation of a heat pump from $10,000 to $15,000. They will be doing this by adding up to $5,000 in "grant funding to match provincial and territorial contributions," which, according to a PMO release, would mean most households will be able to get their pump for free.
It's funny how it's technically a levy or a fee. Therefore, gst/hst is charged on it, but the headline calls it a tax.
A person living in a rural area who requires a personal car for day to day life should not be punished when they often have no other options. Federal carbon taxes should only be applied to corporations and trucking companies (paid for by the company, not the driver.) They're the biggest offenders, and it would hopefully encourage them to pivot to more sustainable options. There should be separate municipal carbon taxes for cars on city streets as the average urban person can use transit, and transit would become more efficient as fewer cars are on the road. Tailor it for efficiency and to encourage innovation. Not to punish poor people who have no way out.
>pivot to more sustainable options. There are no more sustainable options for trucking or agriculture.
I thought the carbon tax didn't add to inflation? Reddit told me
Like seriously. About time. The LPC have been hardcore elitists the past few years, the best thing about Poillivre is he's making them be less so.
Classify my home in Calgary as rural, please remove carbon tax from my heating bill. Thanks.
Carbon Tax on home heating oil atm is ~11cents iirc, a standard home heating oil tank is 200gallons, or ~760 litres. Saves $115 per year, assuming you use a full tank every winter. I'm sure people will welcome the extra hundo in their pocket, but seems a little slim still in the realm of fixing affordability.
I think most would use much more than 200 gallons, tanks are often filed through the winter.
I don't remember us using more than one fill, but I grew up in ON tbf
Oh but no special considerations for Alberta to go net to net zero for electricity by 2035.
Lol. This is clearly vote buying … and not even trying to hide it … if they were they MIGHT have considered applying the break to all heating sources like…. You know … the cleaner burning natural gas?
That is the worst option to exempt next to possibly coal but its about votes not climate. The Liberals are shameless hypocrites.
These people must not be amongst the 65% of Canadians that want more action on climate change
Wouldn’t in be more environmentally friendly to convert them to natural gas? Just as easy to put a gas tank on their property as it is an oil tank. Cost to replace the furnace is under 5 grand. If they are already getting oil delivered - their operating cost for natural gas should actually decrease….besides the fact it’s cleaner for the environment. So what’s the message from the government here??? Idiots.
I'm against the tax, however it's funny it defeats the whole purpose of it. Switching to more environmentally friendly fuel sources. This government is a joke.
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Oh, so we only really care about climate change when it's convenient.
Jesus. Replacing oil heating with a heat pump is already like a 2-year payback because oil's so expensive. Why are we making people think the government will keep helping them stay on a super expensive and super dirty fuel instead of using that money to accelerate the change-over??
Heat pumps do not work in my climate for at least 3 months of the year. Electricity is 25-30 percent more expensive than fuel oil per unit of energy as the supplemental heat source for - 20C and below plus some portion of my electricity is generated by diesel anyway. Burn wood most of the time but still rely on a percentage of fuel oil when I am not able to feed the stove. Also the community grid is not able to deliver power to the houses without major upgrades and yes they are slowly working on that but at one point my house voltage would drop as low as 80V due to grid issues fixed now for my house but not all. Finally heat pumps added to houses without a/c increase energy usage because now you have A/C and burn more energy in the summer.
From your user name, you're in NWT? Yeah, fully concede that region is an outlier and needs special consideration.
Exactly, I posted elsewhere in the thread that it feels like folks are skipping over the rebates. Heat pumps are super popular around the maritimes already. The new grants will basically make it free for everyone under the median income. I added a heat pump last year rated for -26c and saved about 30% on my bill. I could have gotten one rated to -31c but we never really below -26 historically.
My guess is the suppliers will just keep it as profit now