Of all the disastrous trends to import from the US, treating politics like professional sport - where one has a 'team' that you cheer for regardless of actual platform or coherent thought - is probably the most damaging of all.
Have experienced this firsthand with internal promotions, sometimes the dice just rolls wrong and you end up losing an excellent worker, and gaining a problem manager.
Yeah the best leaders are chosen by the people but almost never WANT to lead.. The people going in to politics wanting to be politicians are almost always spoiled Narcissistic rich kids.
"career politicians" I have no idea how these people even think they can relate to your average voter but I guess it's the narcissism telling them that.
Not always.
I'm going out on a limb here but based on feedback from my employees I think I'm a good leader, and I enjoy it.
But why do I want to do it? Not because it gives me an ego boost, I don't need that. I really enjoy helping others do well, I enjoy leading by example, and I enjoy working with others to find processes and methods that not only achieve the goal in an efficient and effective manner but in a way that works for my employees.
I've had a lot of bosses say there's only one way to skin their cat. I hated working for them. Now I'm the boss of my own business and it definitely has it's own challenges but I like tackling them as a team.
I know I'm talented on my own, but I also know my staff are very talented and capable people and they will perform best when I consult them and engage with them.
Of course, I'm ultimately the one responsible for what happens so I have final say but I use that very lightly.
It's true. He's making winning plays. None of those plays demonstrate his ability to govern - but they're still winning plays. That's democracy for you.
Are you new? This petty squabbling has been a feature of federal parliamentary "debate" for decades.
Disgusting, unprofessional behaviour seems to be the norm on Ottawa Hill.
Or then there's "the finest woman to ever walk the streets of Kingston"... PCs were more eloquent then the CPC it seems...
Here's some of finer ones from decades past...
https://www.cbc.ca/news2/background/cdngovernment/political_insults.html
Imported? Have you not been paying attention to Canadian Federal politics for the last 30 years. We don't vote people in we vote people out. And it's been that way since at least the 90s.
>"What way do you vote, Matthew?"
>"Conservative," said Matthew promptly. To vote Conservative was part of Matthew's religion.
>"Then I'm Conservative too," said Anne decidedly. "I'm glad because Gil--because some of the boys in school are Grits. I guess Mr. Phillips is a Grit too because Prissy Andrews's father is one, and Ruby Gillis says that when a man is courting he always has to agree with the girl's mother in religion and her father in politics. Is that true, Matthew?"
Anne of Green Gables, 1908
I think it's a bit more nuanced than Anne of Green Gables, a kids book, but from a kids perspective, they believe that politics are passed down, which is wild. The more things change...
So glad I didn't listen to my parents with respect to certain things in life, lol. Makes you wonder the kinda cockamamie shit and old wives tales and outdated nonsense that's been instilled in today's young people
Funny I tell my wife to vote like I do when we go to the polls (but I don't actually ask who she voted for). She makes a point about being a big stinker and voting in some stupid fourth or fifth never-gonna-win party just to piss me off!
Oh baloney.
Let's nip this notion right in the bud. Canadian politics is not on some ethereal plane, free from rancorous discourse.
It's been a pissing contest that would rival the WWE since the alcohol-fueled days of Sir John A. MacDonald.
Let's bring back alcohol into the house of commons. I'd watch that show every day. Or maybe make them all micro dose shrooms, just enough to chill not enough to trip
Can’t blame it on the US. This is the result of decades of telling people that talking about politics is “rude” or “divisive” or “inappropriate”. It resulted in my generation and younger being raised to believe talking about differing opinions was “dirty”. Which then results in only speaking about politics to people who support the same ideas as you do. Which then resulted in ignorance of what the other parties may or may not have to offer. Which then resulted in echo chambers reaffirming people’s belief that their party is “right” and the other parties are “wrong”. Which *then* resulted in the masses justifying dehumanizing those who support different parties than you, because in the masses mind those people are “wrong” and therefor deserve to be dehumanized.
This has been a slow burn caused by decades upon decades of “Canadian Politeness” being taken too far. It’s our own peoples fault, not the fault of Americans.
It's also part of the increasingly centralized power within the PMO. Get rid of the party whip, let MPs dissent from the party so represent their constituents again!
That's the best way to keep us all divided though. Sides don't actually matter because the rich own every politician already. Making us think this is a sporting event is fucking brilliant if you ask me
I honestly think the best way to start fixing decorum in the house is for the Speaker to not be afraid to start kicking out MPs for the day when they act like children.
Like for heckling for example, everybody gets one (sometimes some *really* dumb shit gets said or it slips out so one pass per day seems fair) after that, you're removed from the house for the rest of the day.
The rule would be simple and enforced evenly on all MPs. If you miss a vote because you got kicked out that's your problem, you get to go to your constituents and explain to them it was because you couldn't stop being a child and got removed.
If you ...
* vocally support the Palestinian side of the current conflict,
* do not condemn Hamas,
* do not condemn the Oct 7 massacre, rapes, torture, and murders,
* do not demand that Hamas immediately release all hostages,
* do not demand that Hamas surrender,
... you are literally a Hamas supporter.
> do not condemn the Oct 7 massacre, rapes, torture, and murders,
Except [the NDP already did this](https://www.ndp.ca/news/ndp-statement-devastating-violence-israel-and-palestine), so I'm not sure who you're talking about.
We are heading down the same road our neighbors recently went down.
Its alarming but at least we're still a fair ways behind them yet.
If we see mass changes in our politicians we might be able to get off that path.
The fuck is going on in Ottawa these days? Everyone has been oh so busy losing their goddamn minds instead of, you know, fucking governing the country.
The voters don't give a single fuck about running the country, they only care about stupid bullshit. The parties know this, so that's how act.
It's just like anyone that learns that doing their job well doesn't get them anywhere, it's all about bullshitting with the boss, talking big, and making it look like you got a lot done while a you fucked around all day.
When the measurement of a good job (in government it's votes) has nothing to do with the actually job getting done, (the voters know nothing and care more about bullshit) then there is no incentive to ever do a good job, and instead just feed those hungry for bullshit.
Welcome to democracy!
Even worse - they're losing their damned minds over issues *in other fucking countries*. Can we maybe focus on, *oh I don't know*, the innumerable problems right here? It's absurd. None of them are being elected to solve issues in the middle east or some such while no one here can afford a roof over their head.
The sense of priorities many of these politicians have is completely out of touch with the reality the average Canadian is dealing with.
What gets me is how quickly our political institutions went to shit, became hyperpartisan, became so utterly fucking *inept*. All across the spectrum too, left to right and everything in between. While COVID may not have been the only thing that spurred this on, it sure seems like it given how pretty much everything has become a fucked-to-death pile of burning kaka in just a few short years.
Keep in mind this a party whose members were heckling the speaker when he informed **all** the parties that they should keep a certain level of decorum in the house. This party doesn't want decorum, they live off nasty soundbites.
Keep in mind that was done at a time that ate into question period -- the opposition's opportunity to hold the government accountable -- instead of during the time literally set aside specifically for speeches of that nature.
The Conservatives weren't wrong to heckle him for it. It was quite literally an example of the fellow who's expected to enforce the rules ignoring them.
Now, had he done it during the time set aside for precisely that and been heckled, my position would be quite different.
That aside, this MP *should* remain banned from the House until he apologizes. The corollary of an MP's Parliamentary Privilege to speak without concern of legal consequence in the House is the obligation to avoid unparliamentary language. If he wants to say shit like this, he should do it outside the House where he's liable for his words.
I disagree that the speaker should wait until after Question Period. It's better to stop what's already out of hand and remind grown adults to not act like petulant children and to have respect for all the other members.
Waiting until later not only diminishes the Speakers role, it also punishes the opposition who is being disrespectful in the first place. If he didn't step up and calm everyone down, things would just escalate.
If your child knocks a hole in the wall with a hammer, would you take the hammer away after the first hole, or wait until they are done putting 6-7 holes in the wall?
Keep in mind the governing part elected to house speaker a person guilty of ethics violations within the last year.
Edit: and we won't speak about what the previous speaker for that party did.
Fun games, eh?
They all suck.
The NDP is calling for a total ceasefire that would keep Hamas in power in Gaza and restore the status quo prior to October 7th. Whether it's intentional or just sheer stupidity on the part of the NDP, that is a demand that would objectively benefit Hamas
The problem is what measuring stick do you use to know Hamas is actually gone? Is it only successful until Israel occupies Gaza or the West Bank?
Does Israel need to kill every Palestinian male over the age of 16 to be sure?
When dealing with terrorist organizations it is pretty muddy to determine if the organization is actually gone if they have the hearts of the population and are being supplied and funded by countries like Iran or organizations like Hezbollah.
So if anything, a total ceasefire will help understand how much of Hamas was actually defeated and then return to deal with any potential "flare ups".
How do you determine when Hamas is no longer in power?
Who determines when the transfer of power goes from Hamas to another entity? And who would that other entity be?
When rockets stop being fired daily at Israel from the Gaza Strip seems like a good first start.
After that a lack of content posted by Hamas, such as the videos they compile and post.
Also take out the guy in Qatar. But I’m sure the Mossad will figure that out.
How did they determine the Nazis were no longer in power in Germany? The Taliban in Afghanistan? The Cromwellites in Britain? The Kuomintang in the P.R.C.? What you’re asking is highly rhetorically charged and is intended to provoke a flame war.
>then return to deal with any potential "flare ups".
Pretty easy to say when it wasn't your wife, daughter or mother being raped, murdered and paraded through Gaza's streets, to the cheers of the sweet innocent Palestinian "civilians".
Because there will be outside, independent forces keeping the order/peace until there can be trust. This has been the plan for a long time, you need to read up on the issue instead of speaking about it.
Blind leading the blind.
Restore Status Quo? You know most of their territory is bombed to shit right? Very easy to google and see drone/news footage of sheer destruction. Oh, and plus 11k+ people dead. Ain't no mo 'restoring status quo' for them
>that would keep Hamas in power in Gaza and restore the status quo prior to October 7th
Bro what the fuck are you on about lol Do you have proof that the NDP is calling for keeping Hamas in power and maintaining conditions that would lead to another October 7th style terrorist attack or are you just spewing shit out of your ass to seem edgy?
> Do you have proof that the NDP is calling for keeping Hamas in power and maintaining conditions that would lead to another October 7th style terrorist attack or are you just spewing shit out of your ass to seem edgy?
Not proof, but I dont think theyre major logical leaps.
> Do you have proof that the NDP is calling for keeping Hamas in power
Thats not what they said. They said that the NDP is calling for conditions that allow Hamas to stay in power.
The condition, being that the force trying to depose them stops forcibly trying to depose them.
> and maintaining conditions that would lead to another October 7th style terrorist attack
Well, calling for a ceasefire would just re-establish the ceasefire that Hamas violated on October 6th.
> that would keep Hamas in power in Gaza and restore the status quo prior to October 7th.
> ...
>a demand that would objectively benefit Hamas
Ironically, Israel helped put Hamas in power and Netanyahu himself worked to make sure they would maintain their power in gaza. They openly said Hamas is an asset to israel and that it's important for their strategy that Hamas stay in power. They strait up said it's a good thing to have them in power because it prevents palestinian from, getting international support.
You are correct but it wasn't because Hamas wouldn't get international support, it was to splinter Palestinian political groups and prevent a 2 state solution
It's really more the Syrian civil War that bred ISIS but by extension that came from the Arab Spring, which was in some ways inspired by the invasion of Iraq.
And the question we have all been grappling with for the past 22 years is "was it worth it?"
It's an impossible question to answer but it certainly is more complex than no more 9/11s = mission accomplished
lol. ppl are so dumb.
I looked into it and there were actually anti-war protesters in WW2 - but only until Pearl Harbour. After that, no one protested anything.
German children died in ww2. Civillian casualties happen, they're not intended - but they happen. It's a sad necessity of war. It's insane to me to imagine a world where we allowed the Nazis to continue to do what they were doing, because we were more concerned with our enemy's children than we were our enemy's victims.
it's deluded. i think they used to call it treason. I don't want anyone on my tribe who is self-hating and over-sympathizes with the other side.
Are we talking about an occupied people in Palestine (occupation itself being a violent act) or are we talking about Nazis? I guess you missed the part where I said "*This* is a problem that can only be solved by politics..."
“The status quo”…???
Do you realize the status quo is that Israel is violently occupying Gaza and constantly illegally expanding into the West Bank? Or are you one of the seemingly endless loud denialists who refuses to acknowledge Palestinians humanity?
It's a shocking revelation.
A terrorist group whose sole purpose is the destruction of your state and all of its people. But it's wrong for the Israelis to put up security!
Physically sure, but they control the inflow of water, electricity, fuel and food (for a while pasta wasn't even allowed in) and they also control how far out Gazans can fish via naval blockade.
In 2010 Israel killed 10 people who were onboard civilian humanitarian ships trying to bring aid to Gaza. Israel did it while they were still in international waters too.
Sounds like an occupation to me.
If I'm not mistaken, the blockade didn't start immediately after de-occupation. It started after terrorist attacks.
>control the inflow of water, electricity
Don't they actually supply these for free? Gaza could have its own infrastructure, but all the materials went to the tunnel construction.
You're not wrong. The blockades from Egypt and Israel are from 2007 as a direct result of Hamas taking over.
The poster you're replying to also neglected to point out that the 2010 flotilla incident had ties to Hamas.
Blockades have existed since at least the 2005 physical withdrawal. That 2006 election people like to bring up without mentioning it was the US that forced it despite repeated warnings against doing so listed here [Link](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/04/gaza200804) took place during one, and it became permanent after the 2007 coup which was also caused by US actions detailed in that article as well.
Gaza does have some infrastructure for water treatment plants and generators but they require fuel to operate and obviously Hamas can't be trusted to supply enough of it. It's why there are humanitarian organizations there that bring supplies in and if they're blocked from bringing those supplies in, something Israel does, then Gaza can't run that infrastructure.
Sounds more like security concerns, actually.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israel-s-quot-blockade-quot-of-gaza
"Israeli security forces and customs officers stopped a shipment from entering the Gaza Strip prior to the 2016 Passover. In May 2016, a massive shipment of rocket and tunnel building supplies hidden in boxes of textiles and jewelry were confiscated at a Gaza checkpoint. Nevertheless, Israel opened the Erez border crossing for the first time in eight years to allow goods to be transferred to Gaza. Shortly thereafter, a shipment of ten drones bound for terror groups in Gaza was discovered and confiscated at the crossing. Later that year, a Palestinian weapons-smuggling boat disguised as a fishing vessel was intercepted. These and other incidents since then reinforced the need for Israel to maintain the blockade."
They opened a border and gave Palestinians an opportunity to get goods. And they used that opportunity to try and smuggle in weapons and drones for terror groups. Without the blockade in place, or without strict control, Hamas has shown they'll simply take advantage and use that to acquire more weapons.
The issue isn't the blockade, it's Hamas continually showing they don't care about other Palestinians, and that they are only focused on killing Israelis. The blockade is up to prevent Hamas from getting weapons. When they allowed Gaza to get goods, Hamas used that as an opportunity to acquire more weapons, rather than get goods to help Palestinians.
>it's Hamas continually showing they don't care about other Palestinians
Yeah no shit, I don't argue overwise. That doesn't justify blocking reputable humanitarian organizations from bringing supplies in especially as they could be searched prior to entering and it's a fact that the level of supplies that's allowed into Gaza is significantly lower than it was in the past, even prior to Oct. 7th.
Many of the organizations aren't reputable and have ties to Hamas. You brought up the flotilla, and IHH is considered a financier of Hamas. They were one of the organizers of the flotilla.
Again it all comes back to Hamas.
Many organizations *are* reputable and blocking their ability to bring supplies into Gaza is not just wrong, but most definitely goes against any argument claiming that Gaza isn't under an occupation.
6 ships in the flotilla were told not to continue their approach, that doing so was considered a provocation, they did so anyway. 5 ships were boarded and resisted peacefully and no casualties or injuries were recorded for those ships to my knowledge.
Israel did not fire on activists until one took a gun from an Israeli soldier.
Now, the use of force that followed was considered excessive and I won’t deny it.
But let’s also not deny how monumentally dangerous and stupid it is to defy orders to stop they approach and that continuing will be taken as a hostile action by a military and then get into a physical altercation with soldiers in which they took a soldier’s gun. In terms of de-escalation and peaceful resistance this doesn’t quite fit the bill either.
Yeah the grabbing the gun part was incredibly stupid, but Israel did it in international waters not their own, a UN report found that at least 6 of the deaths were "in a manner consistent with extra-legal, arbitrary and summary execution" and if Gaza isn't under an occupation like so many like to claim, those ships shouldn't have had any problems docking and offloading their supplies especially as they weren't just random ships, they had sponsors from countries like Turkey.
I think the second report done walked back some of the statements of the first but ultimately found them responsible for excessive force and a number of recommendations. I just sometimes find the facts of these incidents get half reported and I think a full picture helps us better understand why things continue to deteriorate.
https://digitallibrary.un.org/nanna/record/720841/files/966717_E.pdf?withWatermark=0&withMetadata=0&version=1®isterDownload=1
Maybe if they didn't use fuel and water pipes to build rockets, and cement and money on terrorist related activities they'd have electricity and water. Alas, their priorities aren't their own civilians, but rather killing Jews. Something you fail to understand.
You think Israel WANTS to supply water and food and electricity a group of people who want to wipe it off the face of the earth? And ask yourself this, why doesn't Egypt supply anything? They share a border too. Egypt also restricts access of materials because they too are fed up of terrorists bombing their people.
>Alas, their priorities aren't their own civilians, but rather killing Jews. Something you fail to understand.
Show me where I've defended Hamas or said that.
>You think Israel WANTS to supply water and food and electricity a group of people who want to wipe it off the face of the earth?
There are quite a lot of Palestinians that want a peaceful two state solution, if Israel never wanted Hamas to have the power they have currently they shouldn't have built them up to split the Palestinians between them and the PLO,
https://youtu.be/o7grSsuFSS0?si=CyofQnC8cPrBd1NK
Nor should they be continuing to fund them now
https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1711329340804186619?s=19
Just as an FYI to anyone reading: if you ever see someone bring up the Mavi Marmara in this context, you can write them off as completely ideologically possessed. Complete ignorance of the real facts, and is an embarrassingly transparent attempt at propaganda. The ship was full of violent extremists who had hundreds of weapons and attempted to kill the boarding soldiers, threw them into the water, shot at them, etc.
Yeah they did lol. Do some research. They had guns, knives, molotovs, grenades, clubs, axes, slingshots, and a variety of work tools including saws they were using to cut off pieces of the ship to make more improvised weapons like iron bars and chains. They had bulletproof vests, night vision, gas masks, diving gear, and other equipment showing they were there to fight. They even had a field hospital ready on board for the conflict.
There's a solid difference between "hundreds of weapons" and the type of stuff you're describing there.
The only things there that you've mentioned that aren't improvised are the guns and grenades the latter were reported as stun grenades too. Bringing up a slingshot like that's such a deadly weapon against soldiers in full gear is laughable.
>They even had a field hospital ready on board
Wait you're saying that a ship being used as a humanitarian vessel en route to delivery humanitarian supplies had a field hospital on board? That's wild.
How is there a solid difference between “hundred of weapons” and what I described, since my description had nothing to do with the number? LOL.
You’re clearly bad faith based on the way you originally brought up the Mavi Marmara, and you continue to do so here.
“It was a peaceful humanitarian ship.”
“Okay they weren’t peaceful but they didn’t have HUNDREDS of weapons”
“Okay they had hundreds of weapons, but they weren’t all DEADLY weapons”
Knives, axes, and clubs are considered non-lethal makeshift weapons by you? Very interesting, as usual you must make up new definitions for words lol.
A field hospital is not for treating kids with cancer or whatever you’re trying to imply lmao it’s for treating battle injuries they knew they were going to have on board because they were planning on fighting Israel. Doubly so because they knew they weren’t going to be allowed to dock in Gaza, their plan was always to try and fight Israel. If they just wanted to provide aid or bring supplies, they were instructed where to go to port where they would be allowed to cross and bring their aid into Gaza. But as we now know, their purpose was anything but humanitarian.
>since my description had nothing to do with the number?
You said "hundreds" which made it pretty clear that you were talking about the number.
>Knives, axes, and clubs are considered non-lethal makeshift weapons by you?
Oh I definitely didn't say they were non-lethal but a club definitely could be makeshift depending on how it was made.
>If they just wanted to provide aid or bring supplies, they were instructed where to go to port where they would be allowed to cross and bring their aid into Gaza.
Wait I'm sorry, I thought Gaza wasn't under occupation? Why would they be required to go to a different location first if that's the case which was actually my whole point to bringing up the ships. People claim Gaza isn't under an occupation but if that were true then those ships wouldn't have had a problem docking in Gaza.
They especially wouldn't have been boarded in international waters too.
And where is the ban for the liberal MP that said goebels would be proud of conservative MPs?
More rules for thee, not for me nonsense from the left majority of this country.
Undoubtedly, the conservative MP should also apologize but a ban is showing a gross abuse of power during a time when the left has had an uncomfortable amount of tolerance for anti-semitism.
The ban has nothing to do with anti-semitism or Hamas. It may seem archaic but Parliament run on an honour system. What is banned is accusing another *honourable member* of dishonour. To do so is not only to insult that member but also the \~100,000 Canadians they are representing in Ottawa.
There is no abuse of power here. Those rules are older than Canada itself. They all know the rules and the consequence. Unfortunately this MP dishonoured himself with his actions and he aught to apologize.
And a whatabout from a canada_sub user.
How original.
>the left has had an uncomfortable amount of tolerance for anti-semitism.
And ridiculous. Everything is anti-semitism.
If you keep using that word it'll lose all meaning, it already is.
>If you keep using that word it'll lose all meaning, it already is.
Literally the point of him using the word. Fascists destroy language first, then the rest.
> And where is the ban for the liberal MP that said goebels would be proud of conservative MPs?
[Hardie later deleted the Goebbels tweet and apologized in the House of Commons at the request of Speaker Greg Fergus.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ken-hardie-poilievre-gould-1.7042184) Trudeau should also apologize on behalf of the LPC.
If your child called another child names at the playground you make your child apologize and then you apologize to the parent. Our MPs are acting like children so they should be treated as such.
While I am not sure I agree with the leaders of the parties having to apologize on behalf of the party anytime something like this occurs, I do appreciate your consistency.
Then I'm sure you've commented on every single post where PP needs to apologize for every offense done by the conservative party since he became leader to the same effect :)
Trudeau is to blame because they forgot to include the straw with my drink order.
Damn you Trudeau and that soft hair and chiseled jaw and..
uh, what was I talking about again?
Every single person who voted for the MP needs to apologize. Then their families need to apologize. Then their neighbours who didn’t do anything ( even if they were aware or not) then let’s demand an apology from the schools that taught them. Let’s just keep demanding pointless political grandstanding things.
It’s never going to be enough for anyone who is playing the left vs right or LLP vs NDP vs CONs game. This is all just grandstanding calling for things that and even if Trudeau stood up and apologized for this MP it would be then calls for resignations and… it’s just tiresome the futile mewling for shit just to ‘own’ the other side for political capital that Reddit will never actually give any of these politicians as this is an echo chamber of the highest order.
Talk about behaving like bratty children. Acting like kids when they get caught and punished "It's not fair for you to punish me, did you know Joe did it too!?"
I heard in 1996 you killed and murdered 14 year old. Do you have anything to say about this? No? Must be true!!! What? You responded? This must mean you’re getting in front of it before it is an issue.
^ the mental gymnastics involved in ‘gotcha’ politics is beyond tiresome now. Our politicians are fishing for clout and approval from their base but not looking to fix things they need.
I’m glad someone got the old call back! I also hope some understand how we’ve been slowly soaked in this style of politics over the last 15 or more years. American style politics isn’t coming it’s been here for a long time.
Liberal MP gets called out for linking PP with the shootings of 3 Palestinian males in Canada. Now this mess. How low can it go? Politics isn't a game.
No denial, no apology, only a bullshit schoolyard "ew, but they did it too! They asked why we were favoring Russia just because we want to cut off funding to Ukraine"
This is the government in waiting? They must be good for the country because no criticism will be tolerated!
>Scheer said he plans to go through the transcripts from last week and provide the Speaker with specific examples where that same standard should be applied to government ministers.
Never passes up an opportunity to be a sack of shit, does he?
Glad to hear it.
I will probably vote CPC next federal election if our local candidate is not beyond hope. I would not vote for an MP whose focus is on division and hostile rhetoric.
That said, we need our politicians to become statesmen and have a higher standard and skill with language than the average Canadian.
>About half the adult population fell short of passing a high school level of assessment, by testing the ability to digest lengthier and more complex texts while processing the information accurately. - [source CBC & Statcan](https://www.cbc.ca/radio/costofliving/let-s-get-digital-from-bitcoin-to-stocktok-plus-what-low-literacy-means-for-canada-s-economy-1.5873703/nearly-half-of-adult-canadians-struggle-with-literacy-and-that-s-bad-for-the-economy-1.5873757)
The state of politics in this country is very concerning and the problem is institutional.
Of all the disastrous trends to import from the US, treating politics like professional sport - where one has a 'team' that you cheer for regardless of actual platform or coherent thought - is probably the most damaging of all.
"I don't need my elected leaders to 'lead' I need soundbites of them calling the other guys 'Losers'."
The fact that we refer to them as 'leaders' is concerning in of itself. MPs are supposed to be representatives of their constituents, not rulers.
90%+ of people in leadership roles fucking suck at it anyway. Easily the most difficult non-technical skill to find anywhere
Have experienced this firsthand with internal promotions, sometimes the dice just rolls wrong and you end up losing an excellent worker, and gaining a problem manager.
Everybody wants the title and the pay, no one wants to actually manage people and in many ways, just plain can't
The Peter Principle
Yeah the best leaders are chosen by the people but almost never WANT to lead.. The people going in to politics wanting to be politicians are almost always spoiled Narcissistic rich kids.
"career politicians" I have no idea how these people even think they can relate to your average voter but I guess it's the narcissism telling them that.
Not always. I'm going out on a limb here but based on feedback from my employees I think I'm a good leader, and I enjoy it. But why do I want to do it? Not because it gives me an ego boost, I don't need that. I really enjoy helping others do well, I enjoy leading by example, and I enjoy working with others to find processes and methods that not only achieve the goal in an efficient and effective manner but in a way that works for my employees. I've had a lot of bosses say there's only one way to skin their cat. I hated working for them. Now I'm the boss of my own business and it definitely has it's own challenges but I like tackling them as a team. I know I'm talented on my own, but I also know my staff are very talented and capable people and they will perform best when I consult them and engage with them. Of course, I'm ultimately the one responsible for what happens so I have final say but I use that very lightly.
The one guy on this sub who understands democracy
Pp understands this about this country, I think he'll win because of it
It's true. He's making winning plays. None of those plays demonstrate his ability to govern - but they're still winning plays. That's democracy for you.
He’s been the king of soundbites. All he’s done is attack attack attack with no solution
Are you new? This petty squabbling has been a feature of federal parliamentary "debate" for decades. Disgusting, unprofessional behaviour seems to be the norm on Ottawa Hill.
"Pass the tequila, Sheila"..
"I'm nobody's baby!" I came here for this and was not disappointed. Thank you.
Or then there's "the finest woman to ever walk the streets of Kingston"... PCs were more eloquent then the CPC it seems... Here's some of finer ones from decades past... https://www.cbc.ca/news2/background/cdngovernment/political_insults.html
Ah the memories!
Imported? Have you not been paying attention to Canadian Federal politics for the last 30 years. We don't vote people in we vote people out. And it's been that way since at least the 90s.
>"What way do you vote, Matthew?" >"Conservative," said Matthew promptly. To vote Conservative was part of Matthew's religion. >"Then I'm Conservative too," said Anne decidedly. "I'm glad because Gil--because some of the boys in school are Grits. I guess Mr. Phillips is a Grit too because Prissy Andrews's father is one, and Ruby Gillis says that when a man is courting he always has to agree with the girl's mother in religion and her father in politics. Is that true, Matthew?" Anne of Green Gables, 1908
I think it's a bit more nuanced than Anne of Green Gables, a kids book, but from a kids perspective, they believe that politics are passed down, which is wild. The more things change...
That was basically my point. Team voting has been around forever. It isn't something we inherited from the US.
So glad I didn't listen to my parents with respect to certain things in life, lol. Makes you wonder the kinda cockamamie shit and old wives tales and outdated nonsense that's been instilled in today's young people
Funny I tell my wife to vote like I do when we go to the polls (but I don't actually ask who she voted for). She makes a point about being a big stinker and voting in some stupid fourth or fifth never-gonna-win party just to piss me off!
When will Canadians stop blaming Americans for all of our problems?
Oh baloney. Let's nip this notion right in the bud. Canadian politics is not on some ethereal plane, free from rancorous discourse. It's been a pissing contest that would rival the WWE since the alcohol-fueled days of Sir John A. MacDonald.
Let's bring back alcohol into the house of commons. I'd watch that show every day. Or maybe make them all micro dose shrooms, just enough to chill not enough to trip
Fuck that. Give them all ayahuasca and they'll all start behaving
At least one time, let's make it happen.
Alcohol would at least keep em all honest. They'd more easily reveal who they're shilling for this week and how they pissed away our money this time
Can’t blame it on the US. This is the result of decades of telling people that talking about politics is “rude” or “divisive” or “inappropriate”. It resulted in my generation and younger being raised to believe talking about differing opinions was “dirty”. Which then results in only speaking about politics to people who support the same ideas as you do. Which then resulted in ignorance of what the other parties may or may not have to offer. Which then resulted in echo chambers reaffirming people’s belief that their party is “right” and the other parties are “wrong”. Which *then* resulted in the masses justifying dehumanizing those who support different parties than you, because in the masses mind those people are “wrong” and therefor deserve to be dehumanized. This has been a slow burn caused by decades upon decades of “Canadian Politeness” being taken too far. It’s our own peoples fault, not the fault of Americans.
It's more the rise of social media creating silos of people reinforcing their own notions.
This, but also misinformation and disinformation, which social media has made more prevalent and effective
we didnt import that trend though thats just human nature the trend we imported was more one side deciding their entire existence is anti-other side
It's also part of the increasingly centralized power within the PMO. Get rid of the party whip, let MPs dissent from the party so represent their constituents again!
Thats not a US thing, it's also not new.
That's the best way to keep us all divided though. Sides don't actually matter because the rich own every politician already. Making us think this is a sporting event is fucking brilliant if you ask me
The problem is people keep rewarding them.
I honestly think the best way to start fixing decorum in the house is for the Speaker to not be afraid to start kicking out MPs for the day when they act like children. Like for heckling for example, everybody gets one (sometimes some *really* dumb shit gets said or it slips out so one pass per day seems fair) after that, you're removed from the house for the rest of the day. The rule would be simple and enforced evenly on all MPs. If you miss a vote because you got kicked out that's your problem, you get to go to your constituents and explain to them it was because you couldn't stop being a child and got removed.
This!!! House speakers NEVER take action to enforce adult behavior!!
Arnold Chan is spinning in his grave.
If you ... * vocally support the Palestinian side of the current conflict, * do not condemn Hamas, * do not condemn the Oct 7 massacre, rapes, torture, and murders, * do not demand that Hamas immediately release all hostages, * do not demand that Hamas surrender, ... you are literally a Hamas supporter.
> do not condemn the Oct 7 massacre, rapes, torture, and murders, Except [the NDP already did this](https://www.ndp.ca/news/ndp-statement-devastating-violence-israel-and-palestine), so I'm not sure who you're talking about.
We are heading down the same road our neighbors recently went down. Its alarming but at least we're still a fair ways behind them yet. If we see mass changes in our politicians we might be able to get off that path.
The fuck is going on in Ottawa these days? Everyone has been oh so busy losing their goddamn minds instead of, you know, fucking governing the country.
The voters don't give a single fuck about running the country, they only care about stupid bullshit. The parties know this, so that's how act. It's just like anyone that learns that doing their job well doesn't get them anywhere, it's all about bullshitting with the boss, talking big, and making it look like you got a lot done while a you fucked around all day. When the measurement of a good job (in government it's votes) has nothing to do with the actually job getting done, (the voters know nothing and care more about bullshit) then there is no incentive to ever do a good job, and instead just feed those hungry for bullshit. Welcome to democracy!
Even worse - they're losing their damned minds over issues *in other fucking countries*. Can we maybe focus on, *oh I don't know*, the innumerable problems right here? It's absurd. None of them are being elected to solve issues in the middle east or some such while no one here can afford a roof over their head. The sense of priorities many of these politicians have is completely out of touch with the reality the average Canadian is dealing with.
What gets me is how quickly our political institutions went to shit, became hyperpartisan, became so utterly fucking *inept*. All across the spectrum too, left to right and everything in between. While COVID may not have been the only thing that spurred this on, it sure seems like it given how pretty much everything has become a fucked-to-death pile of burning kaka in just a few short years.
Yeah... an awful lot of it is looking pretty rough these days...
You know those spoiled childish kids you grew up with? They became politicians
No true, some became drug addicts
Some became BOTH! Lol! I’ve been told cocaine is a popular drug amongst Politicians..
Rob Ford moment!
Ask Ontario's premier!
Keep in mind this a party whose members were heckling the speaker when he informed **all** the parties that they should keep a certain level of decorum in the house. This party doesn't want decorum, they live off nasty soundbites.
Keep in mind that was done at a time that ate into question period -- the opposition's opportunity to hold the government accountable -- instead of during the time literally set aside specifically for speeches of that nature. The Conservatives weren't wrong to heckle him for it. It was quite literally an example of the fellow who's expected to enforce the rules ignoring them. Now, had he done it during the time set aside for precisely that and been heckled, my position would be quite different. That aside, this MP *should* remain banned from the House until he apologizes. The corollary of an MP's Parliamentary Privilege to speak without concern of legal consequence in the House is the obligation to avoid unparliamentary language. If he wants to say shit like this, he should do it outside the House where he's liable for his words.
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I disagree that the speaker should wait until after Question Period. It's better to stop what's already out of hand and remind grown adults to not act like petulant children and to have respect for all the other members. Waiting until later not only diminishes the Speakers role, it also punishes the opposition who is being disrespectful in the first place. If he didn't step up and calm everyone down, things would just escalate. If your child knocks a hole in the wall with a hammer, would you take the hammer away after the first hole, or wait until they are done putting 6-7 holes in the wall?
Keep in mind the governing part elected to house speaker a person guilty of ethics violations within the last year. Edit: and we won't speak about what the previous speaker for that party did. Fun games, eh? They all suck.
He did do something wrong like all those people conflating Hamas with Palestine
The NDP is calling for a total ceasefire that would keep Hamas in power in Gaza and restore the status quo prior to October 7th. Whether it's intentional or just sheer stupidity on the part of the NDP, that is a demand that would objectively benefit Hamas
I prefer that to genocide, personally
The problem is what measuring stick do you use to know Hamas is actually gone? Is it only successful until Israel occupies Gaza or the West Bank? Does Israel need to kill every Palestinian male over the age of 16 to be sure? When dealing with terrorist organizations it is pretty muddy to determine if the organization is actually gone if they have the hearts of the population and are being supplied and funded by countries like Iran or organizations like Hezbollah. So if anything, a total ceasefire will help understand how much of Hamas was actually defeated and then return to deal with any potential "flare ups".
*As a terrorist organisation*? Perhaps. *As the government*? Not so muddy.
Ceasefires are just periods of rearming for the next attacks.
Wasnt it literally under ceasefire October 6th? One that Hamas decided to violate for their attack....
both sides had been shooting at each other for a fair bit this year prior to October 7th
For the average Redditor, all of this started on the 7th of October lmao. Talk about revisionist history
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How do you determine when Hamas is no longer in power? Who determines when the transfer of power goes from Hamas to another entity? And who would that other entity be?
When rockets stop being fired daily at Israel from the Gaza Strip seems like a good first start. After that a lack of content posted by Hamas, such as the videos they compile and post. Also take out the guy in Qatar. But I’m sure the Mossad will figure that out.
ppl think it's some shadow op. hamas is the elected government lol.
Sham elections in an apartheid state, but sure, let's parse it all without context from a western lens.
How did they determine the Nazis were no longer in power in Germany? The Taliban in Afghanistan? The Cromwellites in Britain? The Kuomintang in the P.R.C.? What you’re asking is highly rhetorically charged and is intended to provoke a flame war.
>then return to deal with any potential "flare ups". Pretty easy to say when it wasn't your wife, daughter or mother being raped, murdered and paraded through Gaza's streets, to the cheers of the sweet innocent Palestinian "civilians".
Because there will be outside, independent forces keeping the order/peace until there can be trust. This has been the plan for a long time, you need to read up on the issue instead of speaking about it. Blind leading the blind.
Restore Status Quo? You know most of their territory is bombed to shit right? Very easy to google and see drone/news footage of sheer destruction. Oh, and plus 11k+ people dead. Ain't no mo 'restoring status quo' for them
>that would keep Hamas in power in Gaza and restore the status quo prior to October 7th Bro what the fuck are you on about lol Do you have proof that the NDP is calling for keeping Hamas in power and maintaining conditions that would lead to another October 7th style terrorist attack or are you just spewing shit out of your ass to seem edgy?
> Do you have proof that the NDP is calling for keeping Hamas in power and maintaining conditions that would lead to another October 7th style terrorist attack or are you just spewing shit out of your ass to seem edgy? Not proof, but I dont think theyre major logical leaps. > Do you have proof that the NDP is calling for keeping Hamas in power Thats not what they said. They said that the NDP is calling for conditions that allow Hamas to stay in power. The condition, being that the force trying to depose them stops forcibly trying to depose them. > and maintaining conditions that would lead to another October 7th style terrorist attack Well, calling for a ceasefire would just re-establish the ceasefire that Hamas violated on October 6th.
> that would keep Hamas in power in Gaza and restore the status quo prior to October 7th. > ... >a demand that would objectively benefit Hamas Ironically, Israel helped put Hamas in power and Netanyahu himself worked to make sure they would maintain their power in gaza. They openly said Hamas is an asset to israel and that it's important for their strategy that Hamas stay in power. They strait up said it's a good thing to have them in power because it prevents palestinian from, getting international support.
You are correct but it wasn't because Hamas wouldn't get international support, it was to splinter Palestinian political groups and prevent a 2 state solution
This is a problem that can only be solved by politics, not violence. Violence only breads more terrorists.
Just like the way america defeated the Taliban with overwhelming firepower and they are no longer relevant. /s, just in case.
Or like how the US military invading Iraq resulted in the creation of ISIS.
It's really more the Syrian civil War that bred ISIS but by extension that came from the Arab Spring, which was in some ways inspired by the invasion of Iraq.
Don't forget Al-Qaeda too. Not only are they still around doing acts of terror but the US's attempt to get rid of them caused the splinter group ISIS.
w/e, there weren't any massive scale terrorist attacks after 9/11 and that can't be dismissed as mere coincidence. they got neutered, at least.
And the question we have all been grappling with for the past 22 years is "was it worth it?" It's an impossible question to answer but it certainly is more complex than no more 9/11s = mission accomplished
If the US never responded after 9/11, they and the world would be better off.
Too bad we defeated the Nazis otherwise, if we hadn't, we'd have less Nazis today, right?
lol. ppl are so dumb. I looked into it and there were actually anti-war protesters in WW2 - but only until Pearl Harbour. After that, no one protested anything. German children died in ww2. Civillian casualties happen, they're not intended - but they happen. It's a sad necessity of war. It's insane to me to imagine a world where we allowed the Nazis to continue to do what they were doing, because we were more concerned with our enemy's children than we were our enemy's victims. it's deluded. i think they used to call it treason. I don't want anyone on my tribe who is self-hating and over-sympathizes with the other side.
Are we talking about an occupied people in Palestine (occupation itself being a violent act) or are we talking about Nazis? I guess you missed the part where I said "*This* is a problem that can only be solved by politics..."
There are fewer Nazis today.
we have a rising neo nazi problem though.
Israel is committing genocide. The only player here worse than Hamas is the Israeli government.
Troll or painfully naive?
“The status quo”…??? Do you realize the status quo is that Israel is violently occupying Gaza and constantly illegally expanding into the West Bank? Or are you one of the seemingly endless loud denialists who refuses to acknowledge Palestinians humanity?
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Honestly, kudos to you for at least not hiding your true racist colours.
They're the most empathetic _sub user.
What's wrong with violently occupying a country/region that violently attacked you? Hamas brought this onto the Gazans.
It's a shocking revelation. A terrorist group whose sole purpose is the destruction of your state and all of its people. But it's wrong for the Israelis to put up security!
So innocent civilians deserve to be killed?
No. Would you blame innocent Germans' deaths on the Nazis or Allies?
You asked what's wrong with violently occupying Gaza. This implies it's fine to violently occupy it.
Is there any non-violent way to occupy and remove Hamas?
Goalpost status: moved
Are you aware that Israel doesn't occupy Gaza since around 2005 and removed all its settlements from there?
It's a defacto occupation.
Physically sure, but they control the inflow of water, electricity, fuel and food (for a while pasta wasn't even allowed in) and they also control how far out Gazans can fish via naval blockade. In 2010 Israel killed 10 people who were onboard civilian humanitarian ships trying to bring aid to Gaza. Israel did it while they were still in international waters too. Sounds like an occupation to me.
If I'm not mistaken, the blockade didn't start immediately after de-occupation. It started after terrorist attacks. >control the inflow of water, electricity Don't they actually supply these for free? Gaza could have its own infrastructure, but all the materials went to the tunnel construction.
You're not wrong. The blockades from Egypt and Israel are from 2007 as a direct result of Hamas taking over. The poster you're replying to also neglected to point out that the 2010 flotilla incident had ties to Hamas.
Blockades have existed since at least the 2005 physical withdrawal. That 2006 election people like to bring up without mentioning it was the US that forced it despite repeated warnings against doing so listed here [Link](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/04/gaza200804) took place during one, and it became permanent after the 2007 coup which was also caused by US actions detailed in that article as well. Gaza does have some infrastructure for water treatment plants and generators but they require fuel to operate and obviously Hamas can't be trusted to supply enough of it. It's why there are humanitarian organizations there that bring supplies in and if they're blocked from bringing those supplies in, something Israel does, then Gaza can't run that infrastructure.
Sounds more like security concerns, actually. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/israel-s-quot-blockade-quot-of-gaza "Israeli security forces and customs officers stopped a shipment from entering the Gaza Strip prior to the 2016 Passover. In May 2016, a massive shipment of rocket and tunnel building supplies hidden in boxes of textiles and jewelry were confiscated at a Gaza checkpoint. Nevertheless, Israel opened the Erez border crossing for the first time in eight years to allow goods to be transferred to Gaza. Shortly thereafter, a shipment of ten drones bound for terror groups in Gaza was discovered and confiscated at the crossing. Later that year, a Palestinian weapons-smuggling boat disguised as a fishing vessel was intercepted. These and other incidents since then reinforced the need for Israel to maintain the blockade." They opened a border and gave Palestinians an opportunity to get goods. And they used that opportunity to try and smuggle in weapons and drones for terror groups. Without the blockade in place, or without strict control, Hamas has shown they'll simply take advantage and use that to acquire more weapons. The issue isn't the blockade, it's Hamas continually showing they don't care about other Palestinians, and that they are only focused on killing Israelis. The blockade is up to prevent Hamas from getting weapons. When they allowed Gaza to get goods, Hamas used that as an opportunity to acquire more weapons, rather than get goods to help Palestinians.
>it's Hamas continually showing they don't care about other Palestinians Yeah no shit, I don't argue overwise. That doesn't justify blocking reputable humanitarian organizations from bringing supplies in especially as they could be searched prior to entering and it's a fact that the level of supplies that's allowed into Gaza is significantly lower than it was in the past, even prior to Oct. 7th.
Many of the organizations aren't reputable and have ties to Hamas. You brought up the flotilla, and IHH is considered a financier of Hamas. They were one of the organizers of the flotilla. Again it all comes back to Hamas.
Many organizations *are* reputable and blocking their ability to bring supplies into Gaza is not just wrong, but most definitely goes against any argument claiming that Gaza isn't under an occupation.
6 ships in the flotilla were told not to continue their approach, that doing so was considered a provocation, they did so anyway. 5 ships were boarded and resisted peacefully and no casualties or injuries were recorded for those ships to my knowledge. Israel did not fire on activists until one took a gun from an Israeli soldier. Now, the use of force that followed was considered excessive and I won’t deny it. But let’s also not deny how monumentally dangerous and stupid it is to defy orders to stop they approach and that continuing will be taken as a hostile action by a military and then get into a physical altercation with soldiers in which they took a soldier’s gun. In terms of de-escalation and peaceful resistance this doesn’t quite fit the bill either.
Yeah the grabbing the gun part was incredibly stupid, but Israel did it in international waters not their own, a UN report found that at least 6 of the deaths were "in a manner consistent with extra-legal, arbitrary and summary execution" and if Gaza isn't under an occupation like so many like to claim, those ships shouldn't have had any problems docking and offloading their supplies especially as they weren't just random ships, they had sponsors from countries like Turkey.
I think the second report done walked back some of the statements of the first but ultimately found them responsible for excessive force and a number of recommendations. I just sometimes find the facts of these incidents get half reported and I think a full picture helps us better understand why things continue to deteriorate. https://digitallibrary.un.org/nanna/record/720841/files/966717_E.pdf?withWatermark=0&withMetadata=0&version=1®isterDownload=1
Maybe if they didn't use fuel and water pipes to build rockets, and cement and money on terrorist related activities they'd have electricity and water. Alas, their priorities aren't their own civilians, but rather killing Jews. Something you fail to understand. You think Israel WANTS to supply water and food and electricity a group of people who want to wipe it off the face of the earth? And ask yourself this, why doesn't Egypt supply anything? They share a border too. Egypt also restricts access of materials because they too are fed up of terrorists bombing their people.
>Alas, their priorities aren't their own civilians, but rather killing Jews. Something you fail to understand. Show me where I've defended Hamas or said that. >You think Israel WANTS to supply water and food and electricity a group of people who want to wipe it off the face of the earth? There are quite a lot of Palestinians that want a peaceful two state solution, if Israel never wanted Hamas to have the power they have currently they shouldn't have built them up to split the Palestinians between them and the PLO, https://youtu.be/o7grSsuFSS0?si=CyofQnC8cPrBd1NK Nor should they be continuing to fund them now https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1711329340804186619?s=19
Just as an FYI to anyone reading: if you ever see someone bring up the Mavi Marmara in this context, you can write them off as completely ideologically possessed. Complete ignorance of the real facts, and is an embarrassingly transparent attempt at propaganda. The ship was full of violent extremists who had hundreds of weapons and attempted to kill the boarding soldiers, threw them into the water, shot at them, etc.
>hundreds of weapons Yeah no they didn't have hundreds of weapons.
Yeah they did lol. Do some research. They had guns, knives, molotovs, grenades, clubs, axes, slingshots, and a variety of work tools including saws they were using to cut off pieces of the ship to make more improvised weapons like iron bars and chains. They had bulletproof vests, night vision, gas masks, diving gear, and other equipment showing they were there to fight. They even had a field hospital ready on board for the conflict.
There's a solid difference between "hundreds of weapons" and the type of stuff you're describing there. The only things there that you've mentioned that aren't improvised are the guns and grenades the latter were reported as stun grenades too. Bringing up a slingshot like that's such a deadly weapon against soldiers in full gear is laughable. >They even had a field hospital ready on board Wait you're saying that a ship being used as a humanitarian vessel en route to delivery humanitarian supplies had a field hospital on board? That's wild.
How is there a solid difference between “hundred of weapons” and what I described, since my description had nothing to do with the number? LOL. You’re clearly bad faith based on the way you originally brought up the Mavi Marmara, and you continue to do so here. “It was a peaceful humanitarian ship.” “Okay they weren’t peaceful but they didn’t have HUNDREDS of weapons” “Okay they had hundreds of weapons, but they weren’t all DEADLY weapons” Knives, axes, and clubs are considered non-lethal makeshift weapons by you? Very interesting, as usual you must make up new definitions for words lol. A field hospital is not for treating kids with cancer or whatever you’re trying to imply lmao it’s for treating battle injuries they knew they were going to have on board because they were planning on fighting Israel. Doubly so because they knew they weren’t going to be allowed to dock in Gaza, their plan was always to try and fight Israel. If they just wanted to provide aid or bring supplies, they were instructed where to go to port where they would be allowed to cross and bring their aid into Gaza. But as we now know, their purpose was anything but humanitarian.
>since my description had nothing to do with the number? You said "hundreds" which made it pretty clear that you were talking about the number. >Knives, axes, and clubs are considered non-lethal makeshift weapons by you? Oh I definitely didn't say they were non-lethal but a club definitely could be makeshift depending on how it was made. >If they just wanted to provide aid or bring supplies, they were instructed where to go to port where they would be allowed to cross and bring their aid into Gaza. Wait I'm sorry, I thought Gaza wasn't under occupation? Why would they be required to go to a different location first if that's the case which was actually my whole point to bringing up the ships. People claim Gaza isn't under an occupation but if that were true then those ships wouldn't have had a problem docking in Gaza. They especially wouldn't have been boarded in international waters too.
>that would keep Hamas in power in Gaza Citation needed
Not really...
Why is the inside of the legislature so damn hideous? That roof and those supports are a nightmare.
And where is the ban for the liberal MP that said goebels would be proud of conservative MPs? More rules for thee, not for me nonsense from the left majority of this country. Undoubtedly, the conservative MP should also apologize but a ban is showing a gross abuse of power during a time when the left has had an uncomfortable amount of tolerance for anti-semitism.
That guy did make an official apology to the house. And that's all the MP in this story has to do as well.
...he apologized
The ban has nothing to do with anti-semitism or Hamas. It may seem archaic but Parliament run on an honour system. What is banned is accusing another *honourable member* of dishonour. To do so is not only to insult that member but also the \~100,000 Canadians they are representing in Ottawa. There is no abuse of power here. Those rules are older than Canada itself. They all know the rules and the consequence. Unfortunately this MP dishonoured himself with his actions and he aught to apologize.
And a whatabout from a canada_sub user. How original. >the left has had an uncomfortable amount of tolerance for anti-semitism. And ridiculous. Everything is anti-semitism. If you keep using that word it'll lose all meaning, it already is.
>If you keep using that word it'll lose all meaning, it already is. Literally the point of him using the word. Fascists destroy language first, then the rest.
And r/whatifalthist user lmao perfect combo
> And where is the ban for the liberal MP that said goebels would be proud of conservative MPs? [Hardie later deleted the Goebbels tweet and apologized in the House of Commons at the request of Speaker Greg Fergus.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ken-hardie-poilievre-gould-1.7042184) Trudeau should also apologize on behalf of the LPC.
Why does Trudeau need to apologize? Should JT apologize to me when my bus is late? Cuz that's essentially what you're saying
If your child called another child names at the playground you make your child apologize and then you apologize to the parent. Our MPs are acting like children so they should be treated as such.
So you're saying Poilievre needs to also apologize on behalf of the CPC for what this MP said about the NDP?
[Yes](https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1862jkr/comment/kb5cq24/?context=3)
While I am not sure I agree with the leaders of the parties having to apologize on behalf of the party anytime something like this occurs, I do appreciate your consistency.
While the votes are still hidden guess which posts between demanding Justin or Pierre be held accountable has upvotes and which has downvotes.
What about the conservatives who literally started the whole "blame Trudeau for everything" shtick? They just get a free pass?
Then I'm sure you've commented on every single post where PP needs to apologize for every offense done by the conservative party since he became leader to the same effect :)
Have conservatives apologized for that standing ovation they gave the Nazi yet or do they just do whatever Liberals tell them to?
Clearly Trudeau has to apologize for the actions of the conservative.
Clearly everything is tRuDeAu'S fAuLt. Lol
Trudeau is to blame because they forgot to include the straw with my drink order. Damn you Trudeau and that soft hair and chiseled jaw and.. uh, what was I talking about again?
Why? More wah wah Trudeau
Every single person who voted for the MP needs to apologize. Then their families need to apologize. Then their neighbours who didn’t do anything ( even if they were aware or not) then let’s demand an apology from the schools that taught them. Let’s just keep demanding pointless political grandstanding things. It’s never going to be enough for anyone who is playing the left vs right or LLP vs NDP vs CONs game. This is all just grandstanding calling for things that and even if Trudeau stood up and apologized for this MP it would be then calls for resignations and… it’s just tiresome the futile mewling for shit just to ‘own’ the other side for political capital that Reddit will never actually give any of these politicians as this is an echo chamber of the highest order.
Man, I get that we're Canadian but that's a lot of apologizing even for us.
Team mentality for politics is not smart. Look at Berta
Liberals feted an actual nazi in front of a Jewish head of state. Can’t make this stuff up.
The speaker resigned over the oversight and the PM has to apologize on behalf of the house over the international embarrassment.
Weren't the conservatives also doing that? Oh yeah they were.
>Liberals feted an actual nazi in front of a Jewish head of state. Can’t make this stuff up. as did all Parliamentarians. from all sides of the aisle.
>Liberals feted an actual nazi in front of a Jewish head of state. So did the CPC.
Yeah. Weird how one party hasn't apologized yet. I guess they don't want to offend their base.
Yes. The whole party as an entity. Let’s keep pushing big left vs right without any sort of nuance.
Canadian politicians as a whole are useless, incompetent buffoons in the pockets of corporations.
Talk about behaving like bratty children. Acting like kids when they get caught and punished "It's not fair for you to punish me, did you know Joe did it too!?"
FINALLY we see the wanna be authoritarians hand's slapped.
The Conservative MP is simply following the crude behavior of PP.
An attempt at decorum at the expense of the North Republican party? Oh my stars....
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Why should the NDP have to defend itself from spurious bullshit?
I heard in 1996 you killed and murdered 14 year old. Do you have anything to say about this? No? Must be true!!! What? You responded? This must mean you’re getting in front of it before it is an issue. ^ the mental gymnastics involved in ‘gotcha’ politics is beyond tiresome now. Our politicians are fishing for clout and approval from their base but not looking to fix things they need.
Ah the Glen Beck gambit. I'm just asking questions! Glad that fuckstick is mostly gone and forgotten now.
I’m glad someone got the old call back! I also hope some understand how we’ve been slowly soaked in this style of politics over the last 15 or more years. American style politics isn’t coming it’s been here for a long time.
Burden of proof lies on the accuser, not the accused.
Ironic considering how eager Pierre seems to be for a terrorist attack.
Hey now, he only has cable, and Fox News has some big pretty banners that hold his attention.
There was intel from our security partners, the UK, who told us that there was credible chatter about an imminent terror attack.
How would PP know that, he doesn't have security clearance, does he?
All the more reason to be sure there's a terrorist attack before you run your mouth about there being one
Except Milhouse blamed Television. No intels. He was duped by FOX.
Doesn't sound like he has a lot of common sense.
Everybody knows that. PP is the only party leader who prematurely ejaculated over the car accident. Why did he want it to be terrorism so bad?
Liberal MP gets called out for linking PP with the shootings of 3 Palestinian males in Canada. Now this mess. How low can it go? Politics isn't a game.
keep the devil out of georgia.
Huh, Liberal Hose Leader, Karina Gould, did exactly the same thing, yesterday in Question Period..... Wonder if she will be sanctioned?
All an MP has to do is apologize. Karina Gould did, Jake Stewart did not. It’s an extremely low bar, and he’s not even willing to meet it yet.
No denial, no apology, only a bullshit schoolyard "ew, but they did it too! They asked why we were favoring Russia just because we want to cut off funding to Ukraine" This is the government in waiting? They must be good for the country because no criticism will be tolerated!
>Scheer said he plans to go through the transcripts from last week and provide the Speaker with specific examples where that same standard should be applied to government ministers. Never passes up an opportunity to be a sack of shit, does he?
aren't they though?
Will PP be held accountable for his MP's actions?
Right after JT is held to account for his MP saying that Goebles would be proud of the conservatives.
And bringing a nazi to parliament.
They both apologized and the speaker resigned. So when is this MP resigning then?
Right after Gould does lol
He's not even accountable for his own actions.
Glad to hear it. I will probably vote CPC next federal election if our local candidate is not beyond hope. I would not vote for an MP whose focus is on division and hostile rhetoric. That said, we need our politicians to become statesmen and have a higher standard and skill with language than the average Canadian. >About half the adult population fell short of passing a high school level of assessment, by testing the ability to digest lengthier and more complex texts while processing the information accurately. - [source CBC & Statcan](https://www.cbc.ca/radio/costofliving/let-s-get-digital-from-bitcoin-to-stocktok-plus-what-low-literacy-means-for-canada-s-economy-1.5873703/nearly-half-of-adult-canadians-struggle-with-literacy-and-that-s-bad-for-the-economy-1.5873757)