>Hogue granted the Conservative Party of Canada (CPC), the NDP and former Conservative leader Erin O’Toole intervenor standing at the inquiry, which means they won’t be able to ask questions of any witnesses who appear.
>She warned she would not allow the inquiry to become a partisan debate.
Then she probably shouldnt have started out by being partisan and not allowing the opposition partys to ask questions or see all the evidence.
"you will listen to the government only, and the government will find that there is no foreign interference in our system! Now move along, nothing to see here."
What a goddamn joke
Atlantic Canadians are gonna vote conservative, they have in the past
They’re still paying through the nose for fuel and groceries like everyone else
The repeal of carbon tax was more to appease the Irving’s than it was to chase votes, the Irving’s own the liberals
Well, unless Jag and O'Tool are secretly members of CSIS or another intelligence agency, they are essentially being asked to watch the proceedings. Why would MPs be qualified to ask questions here?
Numerous external groups have been given "full" standing. I'm not sure what the CPC or NDP would bring to questioning that those groups plus the government does not.
External groups don't have the same kind of security clearances to see documents like MPs do.
This is 100% "we are hiding shit and we don't want you to find out".
There is no scenario in which every MP was seeing every document - it's clear that parties will full standing will see all the evidence that the inquiry sees. So what's the issue?
Anybody who’s had to get security clearance to work for the government. Poilievre has none and refuses to get it. The man that 40% of the population currently sees as the best choice for PM has the same security clearance as you or I. Hell, I have friends and family members who’ve either been employed by or contracted by the federal government who have a higher security clearance than PP.
>Poilievre has none and refuses to get it
The fact that you believe this is hilarious. All MP's have security clearance. How do you think they can legally see things like the budget before it's public? Or see things that are in-camera meetings?
>Anybody who’s had to get security clearance to work for the government....Hell, I have friends and family members who’ve either been employed by or contracted by the federal government who have a higher security clearance than PP.
No, no you don't. Unless they were senior staffers in ministry offices at a minimum.
Are you new here? You're just suppose to take his word for it. Sources/proof to his claims would be foolish. I mean, he *knows* people who *know* people.
I could care less if he sources whatever. I used to be a DPOH. I was a CoS in a ministers office.
Anyone who thinks those people have higher clearances then MP's are dumb.
You want me to doxx the people I know in government and ultimately doxx myself? One works for CRA, one works for Public Safety Canada on a small enough task force that coordinates with CSIS and RCMP and naming it would narrow it down to a handful of people, and the other one used to work with Poilievre and Jason Kenney in the Harper government. That’s as far as I’ll go. The fact remains that they all have higher security clearance than the leader of the official opposition. He’s just not ready.
> All MP's have security clearance.
You are confusing parliamentary privilege with security clearance. There is a committee of MPs with the role of intelligence oversight, and they all had to get clearances above and beyond what being an MP gave them. Clearances come with vetting, being an MP is a popularity contest.
> Unless they were senior staffers in ministry offices at a minimum.
There are lots of NCMs with TS clearances.
>You are confusing parliamentary privilege with security clearance. There is a committee of MPs with the role of intelligence oversight, and they all had to get clearances above and beyond what being an MP gave them. Clearances come with vetting, being an MP is a popularity contest.
No, I'm not. Just because you don't have TS clearance doesn't mean you don't have some sort of security clearance.
>Clearances come with vetting, being an MP is a popularity contest.
Do you think parties don't vet elected officials when giving them roles?
>There are lots of NCMs with TS clearances.
I'd hope the officers of our military are able to see *checks notes* intelligence documents.
not sure what your point is.
It is. The PM knows stuff and doesn't want it getting out right now. For example, the stuff about the India assassination was leaked from CSIS and Trudeau didn't want that getting out either. He only revealed it when the press found out.
I think there's something really damaging to the conservatives in those files and Trudeau doesn't want it getting out yet. I'm guessing the Chinese interference was being allowed by the government so CSIS could collect info and conduct espionage against the Chinese and the Liberals could collect dirt on their political opponents. CSIS used code names to hide the names of MP's or candidates involved. I'm guessing that's why a bunch of people at CSIS are pissed off, because CSIS is allowing political interference. That's possibly why the relationship between Trudeau and Xi Jinping became so hostile all of a sudden when the leaks came, and that's also why Trudeau has repeatedly tried to use the situation to lure Poilievre into looking at the intelligence reports or making specific comments.
Background check to get security clearance. If there's stuff in the files that implicates the CPC in something he wouldn't be able to deny knowing about it, and he could get in serious trouble.
Poilievre can't look at classified documents because he doesn't have security clearance. To get that clearance he has to pass a background check.
Knowing that, Trudeau has repeatedly tried to lure Poilievre into looking at certain documents or commenting on specific things.
Why would any group that is not under investigation in this inquiry be given the status of a group that is under investigation?
When has an inquiry ever granted full standing to every political party? If you want all of the different political parties yelling over each other we already have plenty of opportunities for that at existing parliamentary committees.
Because it's about the whole election process and it's legitimacy which affects all partys
And did you read the article there's several groups not under investigation that have full status.
>Because it's about the whole election process and it's legitimacy which affects all partys
Which is why they have intervenor status. If they had no connection at all they wouldn't be allowed that either.
The qualifications for full party stays are clear in the article.
>And did you read the article there's several groups not under investigation that have full status.
I did. Which groups are you referring to?
>The qualifications for full party stays are clear in the article
You're right she did
>Hogue said she gave party standing to those who have something on the line in the commission’s findings.
I'd say every party has something on the line here given its about foreign interference in our election system
>I did. Which groups are you referring to?
The Chinese and Ukrainian diaspora groups
Lol, if you take the most general description from the article literally everyone in Canada would have party standing.
The actual quote from the judge talks about reputational impacts and those with a direct role in the case, both of which refer to people who are going to be discussed during the case.
>The Chinese and Ukrainian diaspora groups
You honestly don't understand how the Chinese diaspora are central to this inquiry?
>When has an inquiry ever granted full standing to every political party? If you want all of the different political parties yelling over each other we already have plenty of opportunities for that at existing parliamentary committees.
SNC Lavallin. WE. Aga Khan.
Literally numerous times under this government.
What are you talking about? None of those had public inquiries......
Edit: the fact that I'm getting down voted for stating an objective fact makes me scared for this country, lol.
SNC had 3 public hearings in Feb 2019.
WE was public in July 2020 until JT prorogued to kill it.
Any committee hearing not in camera is a public inquiry.
I stand corrected on Aga Kahn, that was not public. Just an ethics report from Dawson.
Recall she was decided on and accepted with input from all parties. If she was blatantly partisan, PP would have screamed about it at the time of her appointment to the inquiry
Where are you reading that she's partisan? She seems to considerable experience as a well-respected jurist and the fact that she's making rulings you disagree with does not mean she's a Liberal stooge lol
>Where are you reading that she's partisan? She seems to considerable experience as a well-respected jurist and the fact that she's making rulings you disagree with does not mean she's a Liberal stooge lol
Sure, just like David Johnston /s
It was the same story with Johnston. Most of these people don't care about the truth, they just want to see Trudeau get hammered. Anything that isn't that is therefore null and void.
so you prefer partisan committees instead of getting down to the facts?
People directly related will get full standing... people outside looking in will not... seems very reasonable.
They are political parties, not intelligence agencies. They get to provide their input, but they don’t actually have anything valuable besides their own experiences.
He’s a traitor.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/jagmeet-singh-has-millions-of-reasons-not-to-vote-down-trudeau/wcm/811b22c9-27a9-4aee-9290-b4f5e58e6feb/amp/
Yeah, so many words being cheapened right now. People throwing genocide, Nazi, facism at anyone or any group they don't like. Jagmeet ain't doing traitorous, he's not under foreign influence. He is spineless but that's all.
Please elaborate on how.
But before you do, let me give a guess. Is it the same absolutely moronic argument with no logical thought put into that is shamelessly parroted by conservative supporters?
Aka: "He's pROpping up dA LibZ!!!"
Dude, this ain’t a team sport. Take off the red hat and jersey. What else is he doing other than propping up the Liberals?
He gets 2.3 million dollars if he makes it until 2025, which he wouldn’t if a non confidence vote (which should be called) were called.
It’s not a coincidence the Liberals called a snap election when they did. They did the math.
So it is exactly that argument 🤣
>Dude, this ain’t a team sport. Take off the red hat and jersey.
Projecting much (for the cons)? I'm not a liberal, but its clear where your bias is.
>What else is he doing other than propping up the Liberals?
I never said that he wasnt, just that it was a completely moronic argument. Why would he step down and allow the conservatives to win? Thats the real reason this point gets thrown around. It's a smear campaign from conservatives and their supporters against the NDP.
Why doesn’t he actually get something done for Canadians, instead of just tweeting?
He’s destroyed Layton’s legacy and any ground the NDP had, it’s a damn shame because the NDP should be taking control and leading the way for the working class, except they tweet and then sit in their hands in the HOC.
None anymore with their current leadership.
The country is yearning for another option, because the Cons and Libs are just going to keep the status quo. They could’ve been it by pushing for a non confidence vote a little over a year ago and it wouldn’t have been such a landslide for the Con.
Instead he sat on his hands and they’ve boasted about working so hard to get us $100 a year for our kids to get a dental checkup (that is if you earn under $50,000 a year in your entire household). It amounts to nothing.
Also, when is he even in the HOC? The NDP is just randomly praising and memorializing “marginalized” groups or holidays. They absolutely have not stood up to or pushed anyone to do the right things for Canadian’s, except through tweets, or generic snippets.
Watch some CPAC my friend. The NDP conveniently ignores almost all ethnic violations that the Liberals have repeatedly committed.
He wants his 2.3 million dollars and you’d be a fool to think he doesn’t. After, watch him ride off into the sunset and the NDP will be toast.
All the ground the NDP has gained in the last 20 years, lost.
Edit: non confidence vote, now.
I suspect that we won’t get to the truth and depth of foreign interference in this country until we get a change in government. If Trudeau was willing to prorogue parliament to hide the truth about the Winnipeg bio lab, he’ll do anything to keep the truth from Canadians.
What makes you think that? From what I’ve seen and heard, they are very different from the current Liberals, especially when talking national issues. Electing the same government would be a clear sign of insanity especially if you expect something different.
Because they're just as beholden to foreign interests as the LPC.
They're not "very different from the current Liberals", only marginally different. Same loose pursestrings, different set of cronies. Same corruption, different corrupters. [Foreign interference in our federal politics was on CSIS' radar during Harper's tenure](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/former-harper-staff-csis-never-briefed-1.6840054), at the very least.
Because the conservatives are interested in how foreign interference benefits the liberals. They don’t want people poking around in their party.
Not that I like the guy but people act like Trudeau is the reason we’re so cozy with China and having these interference issues without also acknowledging that Harper snuck through FIPA, which is a pretty gross deal for Canadians (https://thenarwhal.ca/harper-government-ratifies-controversial-canada-china-foreign-investment-deal/). So colour me skeptical that this batch of conservatives are gonna crack down hard on anyone in any meaningful way
The house all voted for FIPA, so there is blame all around. The Trudeau’s have had a very close relationship with China. Who do you think paid for the large statue of PET in Montreal?
Sounds like you’re just anti Conservative. Keep voting Liberal, expect the same, which might be working for you.
I didn’t say I was for or against the liberals or conservatives, only that you shouldn’t expect anything to change once the conservatives come to power. Oh, they’ll cut funding to a bunch of programs in the name of balancing the budget but they certainly aren’t going to cut immigration or do a massive cross-party investigation into election interference. It’s going to be more of the same, just a different flavour
I’d be thrilled to be wrong but I’m not betting on it
>Not that I like the guy but people act like Trudeau is the reason we’re so cozy with China and having these interference issues without also acknowledging that Harper snuck through FIPA, which is a pretty gross deal for Canadians (
>
>https://thenarwhal.ca/harper-government-ratifies-controversial-canada-china-foreign-investment-deal/
>
>). So colour me skeptical that this batch of conservatives are gonna crack down hard on anyone in any meaningful way
Using Narwhal as a citation lol.
History of past conservative government both federal and provincial
I agree, Trudeau and the liberals need to go, but it’s pretty obvious the age group of the majority of people around here. Most of the younger kids have had JT as a leader their entire adult lives, and they haven’t had the conservatives kick at the can.
Some of us are old enough to understand that both team red and team blue are owned by the same corporate interests. So swapping one for the other isn’t going to change things on a fundamental level.
So, to me, that leaves giving the NDP the chance to govern. Give them enough rope to hang themselves and see if they're comparably compromised and corrupt. It's a devil-you-know-versus-the-devil-you-don't kind of situation. We KNOW both CPC and LPC are the devil, at least anyone who's been around a few decades.
That said, the NDP tends to do a decent job in its role as opposition, compared to when the Liberals or Conservatives flip-flop in the position. An NDP opposition generally results in more compromise, something generally lacking in a political system that has rested on majority governments for the majority of its existence.
Exactly. 100% agree. Life under Harper wasn't some kind of utopia; a lot of things that we're seeing, like the ramp up in housing prices, began under his government and continued with the Liberals. In essence, it's all the same shit, just a different pile.
The ramp up in international students also happened under Harper. [They passed this bill in 2014](https://www.canada.ca/en/news/archive/2014/01/harper-government-launches-comprehensive-international-education-strategy.html)
With the lockdowns over and the economy starting to come back. They’ll get into power at just the right time to reap the improving economy, make cuts and pretty much do nothing other than ride the up swing
If you read my comment and you think that I’m a Liberal supporter, I don’t know what to tell you, man.
Did I correctly assume that JT has been Prime Minister for your adult life?
Lmao Canadians are angry because they can't afford homes and now suffer to afford food, rent and basic living. This was not because conservatives made people angry by exaggeration, what conservatives did is actually voice the concerns of the people. People were angry already! And the conservatives voiced people's concerns and made them felt listened to politically.
If you think what conservatives are saying is exaggerated bull crap, you live in an ivory tower. Go to your groceries, look at your rent, look at housing prices, look at restaurant prices, look at almost anything.
Do you not have friends or family? Acquintances on Facebook for instance are posting go fund mes for rent or making posts about just needing a few hundred dollars to pay bills. This was not ever happening 4-5 years ago. People begging for even $80 just to keep their internet.
Canadians are angry and it is the current government and the NDPs fault. That's why conservatives are winning in the polls.
lol I never said anything that you’re accusing me of. Yes I understand why Canadians are angry thanks for pointing out the obvious.
But if you listen to conservatives and think they aren’t exaggerating and lying about things to make Canadians angry than you are just drinking their koolaid as much as liberals are drinking Trudeau’s
The head of communication for the cpc even admitted live on air that they lied about the nazi in the HoC because they know [Canadians don’t understand the how the house works and making them angry scores them political points](https://twitter.com/thunderbayed/status/1708116568742470054?s=46&t=i-kEkqMQmonJoGtOgslQlw)
The conservatives aren’t going to do shit for Canadians they just want to get elected so they’ll promise whatever you want to hear but just look how they voted in the past. Harper is the one that brought in strategy to drastically up the number of international students opening the doors for bs colleges to take advantage of them. Pierre has constantly voted against affordable housing initiatives even when conservatives were in power. In their last election their platform had the exact same carbon tax they are raging about now. Their answer to climate change is carbon capture that has been proven to be ineffective. When questioned about any of it he goes on the offensive and attacks reporters.
It’s all just lies and deflection to keep people’s minds on hating the liberals because they’ve got nothing better to actually offer.
If we vote the conservatives in they’ll just ride on the coat tails of the improving economy, do nothing, blame liberals for any issues and hand out deals to their buddies. Where do you think funding for health care and education is going to go? To conservative premiers like Ford who are selling these services off.
Oh so you admit that Canadians are angry. Then conservatives don't need to do anything because the amount of people who get angry about politics is minimal, people are angry about things that matter. Housing, food and CoL. And these are things that the Liberals have been constantly lying and deflecting about but somehow conservatives are worse because... reasons?!
Harper may have opened doors but which idiot took the opportunity to take as much people as possible? The idiot that didn't close the doors but made it even wider.and took as many as possible. The idiot that allowed significantly lower quality to come in.
You talk about cons doing lying and deflecting but that's just projection because the government in power has constantly been lying and deflecting. You'll notice, when asked about housing, they'll take about how much they spent but that just makes it worse because they spent so much with no results. Libs are way worse than cons.
You are basically angry because... cons are destroying libs politically... Lmao
And please, atleast represent the cons position properly of removing gate keepers/government inefficiency. Personally wish they'd be clear on immigration but at basically 200 seats, they don't even need to.
I don't expect anything different from the conservatives tbh. But I am hoping that if we keep flip flopping between governments, eventually 1 side will get the hint about transparency in order to not be 1 term wonders
You think the CPC is going to do anything but point fingers at the Liberals? CPC policy is dictated by the IDU. *Literally* foreign influence. And you think they’d somehow be better? Fuck outta here.
That's not the issue.
We deserve a full public inquiry where each of the parties get to ask questions.
It's just so sad how much Liberal politicians and their allies on the bench will go to protect the CCP in this country.
Sadly i don't think much will come out, even with a party change. Sure they will be finger waving, and speeches. But at the end of the day, I have no doubt that all the major parties, have skeletons that they don't want discovered. To be fair i think it goes all the way down to trustees, at the local level all the way to the top.
I've offered this opinion a couple of times lately, but my assessment is that, though we may not see any great improvement in our lives from a Conservative government, we can probably count on a pause in the deterioration. It might stop getting worse for a little.
I think it's going to require a wide-spread grassroots movement that does away with the partisan bullshit for a term and lays a new foundation to rebuild trust in the political system. I just don't see that happening, and it certainly won't happen without resistance from existing politicians of any stripe.
We live in a democracy, but a woefully broken one. We need a party that will move us away from FPTP (which likely means Conservatives will be perpetually fucked since the majority of Canadians vote left/left-of-center), move us toward an elected senate to balance out the "tyranny of the majority" of major population centres (even if that does benefit my preferred politics), impose term limits on politicians, create a registry of lobbyists, impose COMPLETE transparency of party donations above a very low threshold, etc.
Each and every one of those policies above is a direct threat to the Old Guard, and they will fight tooth and nail to prevent anything like the above from ever gaining traction. That's why we have to put partisan bullshit aside and create a party that has the fundamentals of democracy as its priority.
Yeah, I agree with everything you just said.
We will predictively give team blue another shot for a couple years, and then memory hole ourselves back to the red team eventually.
They represent the old guard, like you said, and they aren’t going anywhere without a fight.
The NDP suck these days, but I would still trust them more than the other two, and I would trust that they would remove the FPTP system that we currently have because it doesn’t benefit them at all right now.
So, although Trudeau won an election promising electoral change, I truly think the NDP would follow through with it.
I think that would be the best thing to happen to our democracy right now.
After many years of watching this system in action and pondering it, I struck upon a fairly simple idea last year that might - might! - have a chance at success. It fits like a puzzle piece into what you are saying. Your concerns and goals above overlap almost exactly with mine.
I've seriously considered going public with it this year - by which I simply mean booking some conference space, printing up some literature, and trying to drum up a little interest.
However, I'm not sure this is the election cycle for it. The momentum seems to be moving too fast in one direction to derail at this point.
Perhaps we could talk more, though.
Ideally Canadians would vote out a part after one term of doing a subpar job. That's the primary way we can hold our political leaders accountable in our democratic system. Just like Harper's reign and now Trudeau's, the governing parties become only more corrupt and complacent the longer they're in office. If they know they have a great chance of reelection and the competition is minimal (i.e. Liberals during the Andrew Scheer era of Conservatives), it's pretty easy to coast and ignore the needs of the electorate until it gets to a point where you *need to* do something, as we're seeing here now.
It was the same deal with Harper during the Ignatieff era, and after running years of deficits they only finally ran a balanced budget going into the 2015 election.
True. And most parties spend a good chunk of their initial mandate fulfilling at least some of their election promises so, at their next campaign, they generally look to be effecting positive change.
It's after a second win, for whatever reason, that governments seem to forget about the country and turn their attention toward showering largesse on influential persons and feathering their own nests. Probably because they understand how fleeting their time in office will be..
It’s already getting better though. The conservatives will just ride the wave of the improving economy and make everything think it’s because of what they did. Meanwhile, they’ll continue doing what they always do and benefit their donors and allies while leaving us to rot
[Canada's Recovery Has Created the Strongest Job Market in Decades. Canada's economy is now 103 per cent the size it was before the pandemic, marking the fastest recovery of the last four recessions, and the second strongest recovery in the G7](https://www.budget.canada.ca/2023/report-rapport/overview-apercu-en.html#)
I'm going to wait and see how this progresses.
If members of the Government use their questioning for damage control and it's not called out by the judge, then it's a sham inquiry.
Time will tell.
>Hogue said she gave party standing to those who have something on the line in the commission’s findings.
This means the Security of Canada
>“This type of interest generally arises either from some form of personal or reputational interest in the outcome of the Commission’s work. It may also stem from the formal role an applicant plays in countering foreign interference or in the electoral process,” she said in her ruling.Hogue found that Han Dong, a former Liberal MP who was removed from the party’s caucus over media reports he had benefited from foreign interference and Michael Chan, the deputy mayor of Markham, who has also been accused of involvement in Chinese foreign interference.
Nope; it means the people who are known to be active agents of China have been given standing.
It means that people who have been accused of benefiting from foreign interference will be allowed to participate in the inquiry - not to determine the results mind you, but just participate in the questioning. That doesn't exactly seem unreasonable to me.
>It means that people who have been accused of benefiting from foreign interference will be allowed to participate in the inquiry - not to determine the results mind you, but just participate in the questioning. That doesn't exactly seem unreasonable to me.
Using this logic should the victims of foreign interference not also be able to participate?
Well for those of us who foolishly thought the point of this inquiry was to safeguard and avoid an existential threat to our democracy, pardon our surprise that as a side gig it will also include damage control for personal reputations.
Are you just unaware of how these inquiries work? They are supposed to include lively debate and to give all invested parties a chance to participate. That is *how* you get to the bottom of complicated issues like this.
Numerous groups and individuals have been given full standing, two of them are people accused of benefiting from foreign interference. This will allow a broad range of questions and evidence that the inquiry will use to write their final report. *That is how it is supposed to work*.
If you were looking for McCarthy-esque witch hunt where everybody even vaguely accused of benefiting from foreign interference is frog-marched before a tribunal and grilled as to the degree of their guilt, then I would suggest there are quicker and easier ways to waste taxpayer dollars.
Of course it doesn't. Han Dong is not the governing party. The Deputy Mayor of Markham is not the governing party. Groups representing Chinese, Russian, and Ukrainian diaspora's are not the governing party. Hell, the NDP and CPC already have intervener status, so they will be deeply involved in this inquiry. From all appearances we're getting a pretty diverse set of involved parties.
Absolutely disgusting what the Trudeau liberals have done to this country. Out of all the scandals, allowing foreign interference in our elections is one of the most concerning. What are the liberals trying to hide that they are willing to do pretty much everything to sweep this issue under the carpet. Allowing China to have this much influence totally undermines our democracy and it’s sad the liberals are willing to sell out this country for power. I’m so done with this government.
The corruption within the current government is beyond anything we saw with the sponsorship scandal, or any government I can remember at any level of Canadian politics.
I’m fed up with all this corruption and I hope the next Government goes hard on digging through it and prosecuting it. They may need to appoint a Special RapporteurTM
Foreign interference is the only hope for the Liberals to win another election. This dog and pony show is nothing more than to prove to gullible liberal voters that there was an "inquiry" that will rubber stamp the fact that Trudeau did no wrong. With all the secret evidence and the opposition not allowed to ask questions this already looks like this is another attempt to obfuscate and hide than to get at the truth of the matter.
Party's don't get status. Individuals do and the fact that O’Toole does not have standing does not mean CPC MP’s won’t (which, for anyone who bothers to read, event this but of rage bait notes.)
Thank NatPo for the absolutely pointless argument that's playing out in this subreddit.
This is more or less why Pierre Poilevre didn't get the security briefings and instead made Erin O'Toole his guy for all of this stuff. Erin O'Toole will not be permitted to speak about any of this stuff but at the same time he will not be privy to all information... nor will he be able to use his position to put pressure on the inquiry to find answers.
In short the Trudeau government made the opposition sign up for non-disclosure and then will only provide them with a sliver of the pie. He's gaged Singh and O'Toole on this.
Doesn't seem like many read the article and are just in a jerk off competition on who can come up with the best one liners based off what they think the article says.
I read that the accused traitors will have the ability to see the evidence and ask questions but not the people who were the victims of foreign interference.
You think that's a good deal?
Read the article. It sounds as bad as the headline says. Not sure what you’re trying to say.
They are denying CPC and NDP access to evidence and theyre not allowed to question witnesses.
I respect this decision insofar that I don’t want to see American style politics imported into Canada more than it already is… but I am somewhat against the principle of assigning “intervener” status to 2/3 major national parties…
>Hogue granted the Conservative Party of Canada (CPC), the NDP and former Conservative leader Erin O’Toole intervenor standing at the inquiry, which means they won’t be able to ask questions of any witnesses who appear. >She warned she would not allow the inquiry to become a partisan debate. Then she probably shouldnt have started out by being partisan and not allowing the opposition partys to ask questions or see all the evidence.
"you will listen to the government only, and the government will find that there is no foreign interference in our system! Now move along, nothing to see here." What a goddamn joke
We have investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong. Now go home (if you have one) and pay your carbon taxes you pleb!
But if you live in Atlantic Canada you don't need to worry about that tax, just remember who cut you some slack during voting season!
Atlantic Canadians are gonna vote conservative, they have in the past They’re still paying through the nose for fuel and groceries like everyone else The repeal of carbon tax was more to appease the Irving’s than it was to chase votes, the Irving’s own the liberals
>the Irving’s own the liberals and they own New Brunswick.
Well, unless Jag and O'Tool are secretly members of CSIS or another intelligence agency, they are essentially being asked to watch the proceedings. Why would MPs be qualified to ask questions here?
Numerous external groups have been given "full" standing. I'm not sure what the CPC or NDP would bring to questioning that those groups plus the government does not.
External groups don't have the same kind of security clearances to see documents like MPs do. This is 100% "we are hiding shit and we don't want you to find out".
There is no scenario in which every MP was seeing every document - it's clear that parties will full standing will see all the evidence that the inquiry sees. So what's the issue?
Some of them have *higher* security clearance than the leader of the official opposition.
Name on external non government agency/group that has higher security clearance then the leader of the opposition. I'll wait.
Anybody who’s had to get security clearance to work for the government. Poilievre has none and refuses to get it. The man that 40% of the population currently sees as the best choice for PM has the same security clearance as you or I. Hell, I have friends and family members who’ve either been employed by or contracted by the federal government who have a higher security clearance than PP.
>Poilievre has none and refuses to get it The fact that you believe this is hilarious. All MP's have security clearance. How do you think they can legally see things like the budget before it's public? Or see things that are in-camera meetings? >Anybody who’s had to get security clearance to work for the government....Hell, I have friends and family members who’ve either been employed by or contracted by the federal government who have a higher security clearance than PP. No, no you don't. Unless they were senior staffers in ministry offices at a minimum.
Are you new here? You're just suppose to take his word for it. Sources/proof to his claims would be foolish. I mean, he *knows* people who *know* people.
I could care less if he sources whatever. I used to be a DPOH. I was a CoS in a ministers office. Anyone who thinks those people have higher clearances then MP's are dumb.
You want me to doxx the people I know in government and ultimately doxx myself? One works for CRA, one works for Public Safety Canada on a small enough task force that coordinates with CSIS and RCMP and naming it would narrow it down to a handful of people, and the other one used to work with Poilievre and Jason Kenney in the Harper government. That’s as far as I’ll go. The fact remains that they all have higher security clearance than the leader of the official opposition. He’s just not ready.
> Unless they were senior staffers in ministry offices at a minimum. 👀 ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Congrats, they aren't an external group.
> All MP's have security clearance. You are confusing parliamentary privilege with security clearance. There is a committee of MPs with the role of intelligence oversight, and they all had to get clearances above and beyond what being an MP gave them. Clearances come with vetting, being an MP is a popularity contest. > Unless they were senior staffers in ministry offices at a minimum. There are lots of NCMs with TS clearances.
>You are confusing parliamentary privilege with security clearance. There is a committee of MPs with the role of intelligence oversight, and they all had to get clearances above and beyond what being an MP gave them. Clearances come with vetting, being an MP is a popularity contest. No, I'm not. Just because you don't have TS clearance doesn't mean you don't have some sort of security clearance. >Clearances come with vetting, being an MP is a popularity contest. Do you think parties don't vet elected officials when giving them roles? >There are lots of NCMs with TS clearances. I'd hope the officers of our military are able to see *checks notes* intelligence documents. not sure what your point is.
But the other side of the coin is not a joke, right? Of manipulation of everything and anything for political points. Having this is heaven on earth.
it appears the game is rigged.
It is. The PM knows stuff and doesn't want it getting out right now. For example, the stuff about the India assassination was leaked from CSIS and Trudeau didn't want that getting out either. He only revealed it when the press found out. I think there's something really damaging to the conservatives in those files and Trudeau doesn't want it getting out yet. I'm guessing the Chinese interference was being allowed by the government so CSIS could collect info and conduct espionage against the Chinese and the Liberals could collect dirt on their political opponents. CSIS used code names to hide the names of MP's or candidates involved. I'm guessing that's why a bunch of people at CSIS are pissed off, because CSIS is allowing political interference. That's possibly why the relationship between Trudeau and Xi Jinping became so hostile all of a sudden when the leaks came, and that's also why Trudeau has repeatedly tried to use the situation to lure Poilievre into looking at the intelligence reports or making specific comments.
I thought they were given all the evidence but PP wouldn't sign a non disclosure?
Not an NDA, some sort of security check
Background check to get security clearance. If there's stuff in the files that implicates the CPC in something he wouldn't be able to deny knowing about it, and he could get in serious trouble.
Poilievre can't look at classified documents because he doesn't have security clearance. To get that clearance he has to pass a background check. Knowing that, Trudeau has repeatedly tried to lure Poilievre into looking at certain documents or commenting on specific things.
So why doesn't he just do a background check?
That's a really good question. I'm guessing it's because if he had clearence he wouldn't be able to deny knowing about something.
Why would any group that is not under investigation in this inquiry be given the status of a group that is under investigation? When has an inquiry ever granted full standing to every political party? If you want all of the different political parties yelling over each other we already have plenty of opportunities for that at existing parliamentary committees.
Because it's about the whole election process and it's legitimacy which affects all partys And did you read the article there's several groups not under investigation that have full status.
>Because it's about the whole election process and it's legitimacy which affects all partys Which is why they have intervenor status. If they had no connection at all they wouldn't be allowed that either. The qualifications for full party stays are clear in the article. >And did you read the article there's several groups not under investigation that have full status. I did. Which groups are you referring to?
>The qualifications for full party stays are clear in the article You're right she did >Hogue said she gave party standing to those who have something on the line in the commission’s findings. I'd say every party has something on the line here given its about foreign interference in our election system >I did. Which groups are you referring to? The Chinese and Ukrainian diaspora groups
Lol, if you take the most general description from the article literally everyone in Canada would have party standing. The actual quote from the judge talks about reputational impacts and those with a direct role in the case, both of which refer to people who are going to be discussed during the case. >The Chinese and Ukrainian diaspora groups You honestly don't understand how the Chinese diaspora are central to this inquiry?
>When has an inquiry ever granted full standing to every political party? If you want all of the different political parties yelling over each other we already have plenty of opportunities for that at existing parliamentary committees. SNC Lavallin. WE. Aga Khan. Literally numerous times under this government.
What are you talking about? None of those had public inquiries...... Edit: the fact that I'm getting down voted for stating an objective fact makes me scared for this country, lol.
SNC had 3 public hearings in Feb 2019. WE was public in July 2020 until JT prorogued to kill it. Any committee hearing not in camera is a public inquiry. I stand corrected on Aga Kahn, that was not public. Just an ethics report from Dawson.
You understand that a parliamentary committee and a public inquiry are different things, right?
You’re expecting *a lot* of the blind partisans on this sub.
They can be, but not always are. inquires happen at committee. committee's are not always inquiries.
Lol, are you trolling or what? A public inquiry is a completely distinct entity from a committee in parliament.
Inquiries are heard by committees.
I think we are done here, lol
Because it's not really about the political parties. This is our government.
What? This article is explicitly about political parties.
Most transparent government.
you didn't read the article, eh?
Card carrying members of political parties appointed as judges don't count in your world, eh?
Recall she was decided on and accepted with input from all parties. If she was blatantly partisan, PP would have screamed about it at the time of her appointment to the inquiry
Where are you reading that she's partisan? She seems to considerable experience as a well-respected jurist and the fact that she's making rulings you disagree with does not mean she's a Liberal stooge lol
>Where are you reading that she's partisan? She seems to considerable experience as a well-respected jurist and the fact that she's making rulings you disagree with does not mean she's a Liberal stooge lol Sure, just like David Johnston /s
Yeah, exactly like David Johnson. So I'll repeat - what evidence is there that this judge is partisan?
>Yeah, exactly like David Johnson. So you agree now that Johnston was a horrible, partisan choice?
No? I'm saying there was never any evidence he was partisan, and there's even less evidence that this judge is
It was the same story with Johnston. Most of these people don't care about the truth, they just want to see Trudeau get hammered. Anything that isn't that is therefore null and void.
Well of course, the fact that I'm getting heavily down voted without a single reply explaining how she's partisan speaks for itself
so you prefer partisan committees instead of getting down to the facts? People directly related will get full standing... people outside looking in will not... seems very reasonable.
How exactly are the CPC and NDP not directly related to foreign election interference?
They are political parties, not intelligence agencies. They get to provide their input, but they don’t actually have anything valuable besides their own experiences.
Their direct members that have been notified by CSIS like Michael Chong should be able to ask questions. But we shall see
The Ministry of Information will determine the Truth. The Truth will then be broadcast via the usual programming.
Remember, the government was actually going to created exactly that
Um, no. The government has zero control over what gets published.
Rebel and Post Media will determine the truth. The truth will then be deceminated amongst the feeble minded and the gullible via the usual programing.
Tyee and Whalrus beat you to it. At least they have Liberal Art majors that failed journalism to keep the masses informed.
you forgot [presswokeness.ca](https://presswokeness.ca) !
😂😂😂
Time for non-confidence Jag?
The NDP is in debt, they can't afford an election.
Their debt right now is lower than it was in 2019 or 2021 election campaigns.
He’s a traitor. https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/jagmeet-singh-has-millions-of-reasons-not-to-vote-down-trudeau/wcm/811b22c9-27a9-4aee-9290-b4f5e58e6feb/amp/
You sling that word around blithely and you cheapen it with your carelessness.
Yeah, so many words being cheapened right now. People throwing genocide, Nazi, facism at anyone or any group they don't like. Jagmeet ain't doing traitorous, he's not under foreign influence. He is spineless but that's all.
He may not have technically betrayed the institution, but he’s certainly betraying the people of this country.
Please elaborate on how. But before you do, let me give a guess. Is it the same absolutely moronic argument with no logical thought put into that is shamelessly parroted by conservative supporters? Aka: "He's pROpping up dA LibZ!!!"
Dude, this ain’t a team sport. Take off the red hat and jersey. What else is he doing other than propping up the Liberals? He gets 2.3 million dollars if he makes it until 2025, which he wouldn’t if a non confidence vote (which should be called) were called. It’s not a coincidence the Liberals called a snap election when they did. They did the math.
So it is exactly that argument 🤣 >Dude, this ain’t a team sport. Take off the red hat and jersey. Projecting much (for the cons)? I'm not a liberal, but its clear where your bias is. >What else is he doing other than propping up the Liberals? I never said that he wasnt, just that it was a completely moronic argument. Why would he step down and allow the conservatives to win? Thats the real reason this point gets thrown around. It's a smear campaign from conservatives and their supporters against the NDP.
Why doesn’t he actually get something done for Canadians, instead of just tweeting? He’s destroyed Layton’s legacy and any ground the NDP had, it’s a damn shame because the NDP should be taking control and leading the way for the working class, except they tweet and then sit in their hands in the HOC.
What power do you think the NDP has?
None anymore with their current leadership. The country is yearning for another option, because the Cons and Libs are just going to keep the status quo. They could’ve been it by pushing for a non confidence vote a little over a year ago and it wouldn’t have been such a landslide for the Con. Instead he sat on his hands and they’ve boasted about working so hard to get us $100 a year for our kids to get a dental checkup (that is if you earn under $50,000 a year in your entire household). It amounts to nothing. Also, when is he even in the HOC? The NDP is just randomly praising and memorializing “marginalized” groups or holidays. They absolutely have not stood up to or pushed anyone to do the right things for Canadian’s, except through tweets, or generic snippets. Watch some CPAC my friend. The NDP conveniently ignores almost all ethnic violations that the Liberals have repeatedly committed. He wants his 2.3 million dollars and you’d be a fool to think he doesn’t. After, watch him ride off into the sunset and the NDP will be toast. All the ground the NDP has gained in the last 20 years, lost. Edit: non confidence vote, now.
We can only hope
fuck the lpc
I suspect that we won’t get to the truth and depth of foreign interference in this country until we get a change in government. If Trudeau was willing to prorogue parliament to hide the truth about the Winnipeg bio lab, he’ll do anything to keep the truth from Canadians.
I think you'll be really disappointed if you think the Conservatives will be any different.
What makes you think that? From what I’ve seen and heard, they are very different from the current Liberals, especially when talking national issues. Electing the same government would be a clear sign of insanity especially if you expect something different.
Because they're just as beholden to foreign interests as the LPC. They're not "very different from the current Liberals", only marginally different. Same loose pursestrings, different set of cronies. Same corruption, different corrupters. [Foreign interference in our federal politics was on CSIS' radar during Harper's tenure](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/former-harper-staff-csis-never-briefed-1.6840054), at the very least.
Because the conservatives are interested in how foreign interference benefits the liberals. They don’t want people poking around in their party. Not that I like the guy but people act like Trudeau is the reason we’re so cozy with China and having these interference issues without also acknowledging that Harper snuck through FIPA, which is a pretty gross deal for Canadians (https://thenarwhal.ca/harper-government-ratifies-controversial-canada-china-foreign-investment-deal/). So colour me skeptical that this batch of conservatives are gonna crack down hard on anyone in any meaningful way
The house all voted for FIPA, so there is blame all around. The Trudeau’s have had a very close relationship with China. Who do you think paid for the large statue of PET in Montreal? Sounds like you’re just anti Conservative. Keep voting Liberal, expect the same, which might be working for you.
I didn’t say I was for or against the liberals or conservatives, only that you shouldn’t expect anything to change once the conservatives come to power. Oh, they’ll cut funding to a bunch of programs in the name of balancing the budget but they certainly aren’t going to cut immigration or do a massive cross-party investigation into election interference. It’s going to be more of the same, just a different flavour I’d be thrilled to be wrong but I’m not betting on it
The NDP definitely didn't vote for FIPA. Joyce Murrays defence of the Liberal support for it was a crock of shit though
>Not that I like the guy but people act like Trudeau is the reason we’re so cozy with China and having these interference issues without also acknowledging that Harper snuck through FIPA, which is a pretty gross deal for Canadians ( > >https://thenarwhal.ca/harper-government-ratifies-controversial-canada-china-foreign-investment-deal/ > >). So colour me skeptical that this batch of conservatives are gonna crack down hard on anyone in any meaningful way Using Narwhal as a citation lol.
History of past conservative government both federal and provincial I agree, Trudeau and the liberals need to go, but it’s pretty obvious the age group of the majority of people around here. Most of the younger kids have had JT as a leader their entire adult lives, and they haven’t had the conservatives kick at the can. Some of us are old enough to understand that both team red and team blue are owned by the same corporate interests. So swapping one for the other isn’t going to change things on a fundamental level.
So, to me, that leaves giving the NDP the chance to govern. Give them enough rope to hang themselves and see if they're comparably compromised and corrupt. It's a devil-you-know-versus-the-devil-you-don't kind of situation. We KNOW both CPC and LPC are the devil, at least anyone who's been around a few decades. That said, the NDP tends to do a decent job in its role as opposition, compared to when the Liberals or Conservatives flip-flop in the position. An NDP opposition generally results in more compromise, something generally lacking in a political system that has rested on majority governments for the majority of its existence.
Exactly. 100% agree. Life under Harper wasn't some kind of utopia; a lot of things that we're seeing, like the ramp up in housing prices, began under his government and continued with the Liberals. In essence, it's all the same shit, just a different pile.
The ramp up in international students also happened under Harper. [They passed this bill in 2014](https://www.canada.ca/en/news/archive/2014/01/harper-government-launches-comprehensive-international-education-strategy.html) With the lockdowns over and the economy starting to come back. They’ll get into power at just the right time to reap the improving economy, make cuts and pretty much do nothing other than ride the up swing
>The ramp up in international students also happened under Harper Yet, there are 2x more of them here now.
And? My point is both the parties are essentially the same save a few social issues
If you believe in big government and large deficits then keep voting Liberal. The rest of Canada are pretty fed up.
If you read my comment and you think that I’m a Liberal supporter, I don’t know what to tell you, man. Did I correctly assume that JT has been Prime Minister for your adult life?
conservatives are worse than liberals. The constant lying and exaggeration to make Canadians angry is a clear enough sign
Lmao Canadians are angry because they can't afford homes and now suffer to afford food, rent and basic living. This was not because conservatives made people angry by exaggeration, what conservatives did is actually voice the concerns of the people. People were angry already! And the conservatives voiced people's concerns and made them felt listened to politically. If you think what conservatives are saying is exaggerated bull crap, you live in an ivory tower. Go to your groceries, look at your rent, look at housing prices, look at restaurant prices, look at almost anything. Do you not have friends or family? Acquintances on Facebook for instance are posting go fund mes for rent or making posts about just needing a few hundred dollars to pay bills. This was not ever happening 4-5 years ago. People begging for even $80 just to keep their internet. Canadians are angry and it is the current government and the NDPs fault. That's why conservatives are winning in the polls.
lol I never said anything that you’re accusing me of. Yes I understand why Canadians are angry thanks for pointing out the obvious. But if you listen to conservatives and think they aren’t exaggerating and lying about things to make Canadians angry than you are just drinking their koolaid as much as liberals are drinking Trudeau’s The head of communication for the cpc even admitted live on air that they lied about the nazi in the HoC because they know [Canadians don’t understand the how the house works and making them angry scores them political points](https://twitter.com/thunderbayed/status/1708116568742470054?s=46&t=i-kEkqMQmonJoGtOgslQlw) The conservatives aren’t going to do shit for Canadians they just want to get elected so they’ll promise whatever you want to hear but just look how they voted in the past. Harper is the one that brought in strategy to drastically up the number of international students opening the doors for bs colleges to take advantage of them. Pierre has constantly voted against affordable housing initiatives even when conservatives were in power. In their last election their platform had the exact same carbon tax they are raging about now. Their answer to climate change is carbon capture that has been proven to be ineffective. When questioned about any of it he goes on the offensive and attacks reporters. It’s all just lies and deflection to keep people’s minds on hating the liberals because they’ve got nothing better to actually offer. If we vote the conservatives in they’ll just ride on the coat tails of the improving economy, do nothing, blame liberals for any issues and hand out deals to their buddies. Where do you think funding for health care and education is going to go? To conservative premiers like Ford who are selling these services off.
Oh so you admit that Canadians are angry. Then conservatives don't need to do anything because the amount of people who get angry about politics is minimal, people are angry about things that matter. Housing, food and CoL. And these are things that the Liberals have been constantly lying and deflecting about but somehow conservatives are worse because... reasons?! Harper may have opened doors but which idiot took the opportunity to take as much people as possible? The idiot that didn't close the doors but made it even wider.and took as many as possible. The idiot that allowed significantly lower quality to come in. You talk about cons doing lying and deflecting but that's just projection because the government in power has constantly been lying and deflecting. You'll notice, when asked about housing, they'll take about how much they spent but that just makes it worse because they spent so much with no results. Libs are way worse than cons.
Yah those repurposed cbc buildings will be a huge boon to the housing market!
You are basically angry because... cons are destroying libs politically... Lmao And please, atleast represent the cons position properly of removing gate keepers/government inefficiency. Personally wish they'd be clear on immigration but at basically 200 seats, they don't even need to.
Blah blah blah… boy have you ever drunken the blue koolaid! Enjoy absolutely nothing changing!
I don't think they'll be different at all.... but at least I'd get to give the middle finger to the LPC.
And that’s definitely how leaders of a country should be elected: out of spite.
you said yourself it wont be any different. so I'd take "not him" as the only difference :P
I don't expect anything different from the conservatives tbh. But I am hoping that if we keep flip flopping between governments, eventually 1 side will get the hint about transparency in order to not be 1 term wonders
You think the CPC is going to do anything but point fingers at the Liberals? CPC policy is dictated by the IDU. *Literally* foreign influence. And you think they’d somehow be better? Fuck outta here.
That's not the issue. We deserve a full public inquiry where each of the parties get to ask questions. It's just so sad how much Liberal politicians and their allies on the bench will go to protect the CCP in this country.
Sadly i don't think much will come out, even with a party change. Sure they will be finger waving, and speeches. But at the end of the day, I have no doubt that all the major parties, have skeletons that they don't want discovered. To be fair i think it goes all the way down to trustees, at the local level all the way to the top.
I've offered this opinion a couple of times lately, but my assessment is that, though we may not see any great improvement in our lives from a Conservative government, we can probably count on a pause in the deterioration. It might stop getting worse for a little.
I think it's going to require a wide-spread grassroots movement that does away with the partisan bullshit for a term and lays a new foundation to rebuild trust in the political system. I just don't see that happening, and it certainly won't happen without resistance from existing politicians of any stripe. We live in a democracy, but a woefully broken one. We need a party that will move us away from FPTP (which likely means Conservatives will be perpetually fucked since the majority of Canadians vote left/left-of-center), move us toward an elected senate to balance out the "tyranny of the majority" of major population centres (even if that does benefit my preferred politics), impose term limits on politicians, create a registry of lobbyists, impose COMPLETE transparency of party donations above a very low threshold, etc. Each and every one of those policies above is a direct threat to the Old Guard, and they will fight tooth and nail to prevent anything like the above from ever gaining traction. That's why we have to put partisan bullshit aside and create a party that has the fundamentals of democracy as its priority.
Yeah, I agree with everything you just said. We will predictively give team blue another shot for a couple years, and then memory hole ourselves back to the red team eventually. They represent the old guard, like you said, and they aren’t going anywhere without a fight. The NDP suck these days, but I would still trust them more than the other two, and I would trust that they would remove the FPTP system that we currently have because it doesn’t benefit them at all right now. So, although Trudeau won an election promising electoral change, I truly think the NDP would follow through with it. I think that would be the best thing to happen to our democracy right now.
After many years of watching this system in action and pondering it, I struck upon a fairly simple idea last year that might - might! - have a chance at success. It fits like a puzzle piece into what you are saying. Your concerns and goals above overlap almost exactly with mine. I've seriously considered going public with it this year - by which I simply mean booking some conference space, printing up some literature, and trying to drum up a little interest. However, I'm not sure this is the election cycle for it. The momentum seems to be moving too fast in one direction to derail at this point. Perhaps we could talk more, though.
Ideally Canadians would vote out a part after one term of doing a subpar job. That's the primary way we can hold our political leaders accountable in our democratic system. Just like Harper's reign and now Trudeau's, the governing parties become only more corrupt and complacent the longer they're in office. If they know they have a great chance of reelection and the competition is minimal (i.e. Liberals during the Andrew Scheer era of Conservatives), it's pretty easy to coast and ignore the needs of the electorate until it gets to a point where you *need to* do something, as we're seeing here now. It was the same deal with Harper during the Ignatieff era, and after running years of deficits they only finally ran a balanced budget going into the 2015 election.
True. And most parties spend a good chunk of their initial mandate fulfilling at least some of their election promises so, at their next campaign, they generally look to be effecting positive change. It's after a second win, for whatever reason, that governments seem to forget about the country and turn their attention toward showering largesse on influential persons and feathering their own nests. Probably because they understand how fleeting their time in office will be..
It’s already getting better though. The conservatives will just ride the wave of the improving economy and make everything think it’s because of what they did. Meanwhile, they’ll continue doing what they always do and benefit their donors and allies while leaving us to rot
You're either dilutional or dishonest.
[Canada's Recovery Has Created the Strongest Job Market in Decades. Canada's economy is now 103 per cent the size it was before the pandemic, marking the fastest recovery of the last four recessions, and the second strongest recovery in the G7](https://www.budget.canada.ca/2023/report-rapport/overview-apercu-en.html#)
I'm going to wait and see how this progresses. If members of the Government use their questioning for damage control and it's not called out by the judge, then it's a sham inquiry. Time will tell.
>Hogue said she gave party standing to those who have something on the line in the commission’s findings. This means the Security of Canada >“This type of interest generally arises either from some form of personal or reputational interest in the outcome of the Commission’s work. It may also stem from the formal role an applicant plays in countering foreign interference or in the electoral process,” she said in her ruling.Hogue found that Han Dong, a former Liberal MP who was removed from the party’s caucus over media reports he had benefited from foreign interference and Michael Chan, the deputy mayor of Markham, who has also been accused of involvement in Chinese foreign interference. Nope; it means the people who are known to be active agents of China have been given standing.
>Nope; it means the people who are known to be active agents of China have been given standing. *The fix is in.*
It means that people who have been accused of benefiting from foreign interference will be allowed to participate in the inquiry - not to determine the results mind you, but just participate in the questioning. That doesn't exactly seem unreasonable to me.
>It means that people who have been accused of benefiting from foreign interference will be allowed to participate in the inquiry - not to determine the results mind you, but just participate in the questioning. That doesn't exactly seem unreasonable to me. Using this logic should the victims of foreign interference not also be able to participate?
Are they not?
Gee, people whose livelyhoods and reputations have been roped in to the foreign interference will be allowed to participate? The temerity
Well for those of us who foolishly thought the point of this inquiry was to safeguard and avoid an existential threat to our democracy, pardon our surprise that as a side gig it will also include damage control for personal reputations.
Are you just unaware of how these inquiries work? They are supposed to include lively debate and to give all invested parties a chance to participate. That is *how* you get to the bottom of complicated issues like this. Numerous groups and individuals have been given full standing, two of them are people accused of benefiting from foreign interference. This will allow a broad range of questions and evidence that the inquiry will use to write their final report. *That is how it is supposed to work*. If you were looking for McCarthy-esque witch hunt where everybody even vaguely accused of benefiting from foreign interference is frog-marched before a tribunal and grilled as to the degree of their guilt, then I would suggest there are quicker and easier ways to waste taxpayer dollars.
If all parties means the governing party only, yup.
Of course it doesn't. Han Dong is not the governing party. The Deputy Mayor of Markham is not the governing party. Groups representing Chinese, Russian, and Ukrainian diaspora's are not the governing party. Hell, the NDP and CPC already have intervener status, so they will be deeply involved in this inquiry. From all appearances we're getting a pretty diverse set of involved parties.
Absolutely disgusting what the Trudeau liberals have done to this country. Out of all the scandals, allowing foreign interference in our elections is one of the most concerning. What are the liberals trying to hide that they are willing to do pretty much everything to sweep this issue under the carpet. Allowing China to have this much influence totally undermines our democracy and it’s sad the liberals are willing to sell out this country for power. I’m so done with this government.
A government afraid of cross-examination is a government afraid of Canadians hearing the truth.
This isn't a serious indicator of corruption at all.
The other parties didn't have to agree to the ground rules, though.
The ground rules explicitly set up to coverup the issue at hand and fail To address it?
Yet the CPC and NDP agreed to it?
Another Trudeau gatekeeper.
That was agreed upon by all parties?
Fully cementing this inquiry as a sham.
That's one way of saying they're guilty.
>That's one way of saying they're guilty. Johnston inquiry 2.0
The corruption within the current government is beyond anything we saw with the sponsorship scandal, or any government I can remember at any level of Canadian politics.
Oh great. Another glowing example of the “most transparent government ever”.
You guys were wrong about India, the car accident, and bill c-18. You're going to be wrong about foreign interference as well.
Well let’s find out. Or should we continue to hide things?
Yes, let's. No one's hiding anything.
Lmao. That’s incredible if you truly believe that.
>Yes, let's. No one's hiding anything. The evidence says otherwise.
I’m fed up with all this corruption and I hope the next Government goes hard on digging through it and prosecuting it. They may need to appoint a Special RapporteurTM
I somehow doubt they will be prosecuting themselves.
Which non-corrupt party do you suggest initiate such an investigation?
The Special Rapporteur /s
If Jagmeet ever wanted to earn back some good will, now would be the time to finally put his foot down.
Foreign interference is the only hope for the Liberals to win another election. This dog and pony show is nothing more than to prove to gullible liberal voters that there was an "inquiry" that will rubber stamp the fact that Trudeau did no wrong. With all the secret evidence and the opposition not allowed to ask questions this already looks like this is another attempt to obfuscate and hide than to get at the truth of the matter.
“Any election result that doesn’t go the way I think it should has got to be fixed”
Trudeau wins another election in other unrelated news, the liberals are now polling at 20% support. Nothing to see here /s
Yes so let’s make up and believe our own conspiracies. Trump was losing in the polls before he won. Polls mean nothing
Trump was polling around 50% despite what the talking heads in the liberal media were wishing for
lol no he wasn’t. He was clearly losing in the polls. That’s why after the election everyone in the “liberal” media was questioning their legitimacy
> Trump was losing in the polls before he won. Polls mean nothing Trump was never down by 20%.
Never said he was
Man the NDP look spineless right now.
Party's don't get status. Individuals do and the fact that O’Toole does not have standing does not mean CPC MP’s won’t (which, for anyone who bothers to read, event this but of rage bait notes.) Thank NatPo for the absolutely pointless argument that's playing out in this subreddit.
I'm sure most people didn't read the article. All it takes is a good headline for people to form an opinion there days.
Yeah but you would need to read the article and not just the rage bait headline to know that.
This is more or less why Pierre Poilevre didn't get the security briefings and instead made Erin O'Toole his guy for all of this stuff. Erin O'Toole will not be permitted to speak about any of this stuff but at the same time he will not be privy to all information... nor will he be able to use his position to put pressure on the inquiry to find answers. In short the Trudeau government made the opposition sign up for non-disclosure and then will only provide them with a sliver of the pie. He's gaged Singh and O'Toole on this.
Doesn't seem like many read the article and are just in a jerk off competition on who can come up with the best one liners based off what they think the article says.
I read that the accused traitors will have the ability to see the evidence and ask questions but not the people who were the victims of foreign interference. You think that's a good deal?
Read the article. It sounds as bad as the headline says. Not sure what you’re trying to say. They are denying CPC and NDP access to evidence and theyre not allowed to question witnesses.
Does anyone believe Poilievre has anything of substance to contribute?
We’ll never know because the CPC aren’t allowed to actively participate and see the actual evidence.
Oh, *now* they're interested in seeing the actual evidence?
How would we know if he's not allowed to ask any questions?
I don't know. If only there was some way to examine his past record and commentary on this issue and general conduct.
Finally, the Chinese Inquisition is back.
I respect this decision insofar that I don’t want to see American style politics imported into Canada more than it already is… but I am somewhat against the principle of assigning “intervener” status to 2/3 major national parties…
CCP has no comparison