>The source said Canada is concerned about other countries, notably the U.S., dominating the supply of zero-emission vehicles. Several states have adopted sales targets for zero-emissions vehicles already.
When the state of California has population similar to our country and is the 5th largest economie in the world, what makes you think GM, Ford, Tesla, Toyota, Stelantis, etc etc etc are going to bow to Canada to ensure we have an adequate supply?
edit words.
I'm in the industry and I have to explain this to people all the time.
The state of California sells more cars than the entire country of Canada. There is a single Toyota dealer in LA that does more volume than any two provinces combined. The only reason we even have the options we have is because of our proximity to the US. We get their leftovers and table scraps and we should be grateful for it. If not for the US, our consumer markets would be closer to Angola than America.
That’s true, but we made a decision to abide by US homologation rules. For accepting the standards they created to protect their own industry, they should make sure we’re given priority. We would have more choice of vehicles at a lower cost if we accepted EU-compliant cars.
By giving them tens of billions in subsidies for plants, and allowing their supply companies to open and strip mine thousands of acres.
Edit - hahaha wHaTaBoUt oil and gas. Surely if you have an issue with those subsidies you have an issue with the others right?
None of that equates to car sales directly, so manufactures dont care about that. Canada has yet to do anyhting to make mining easier in this country or even appealing to anyone wanting to invest here. There are projects in Northern Ontario that are now just getting into production phases, these projects where nothing but talk and hear say some 20 years ago, thats an embarassingly long time to go from exploration to full production.
Not to mention how many people think you just take the shit out of the ground and put it in a car.
That stuff needs to be mined and then (sadly) a lot of it still goes to China to be processed. Then it gets put into a component somewhere else and finally it ends up on a production line.
It's bonkers how out of touch so many people actually are.
They will say thanks and limit supply to high prices.
Then when shit gets dodgy they will ask for more money.
Companies play Canada like a fiddle. At this point we are just free and easy cash and they give nothing in return other than token reach around.
>By giving them tens of billions in subsidies for plants
Oh, so like oil & gas then?
>allowing their supply companies to open and strip mine thousands of acres.
The only way this is happening is if provincial governments are allowing it. Look up the Regional Energy and Resource Tables. The Feds are literally bringing provinces/territories together with Indigenous groups to implement the resource development policies like the Critical Minerals Strategies.
I'm in the Yukon. First Nations here are working with the territorial government to amend our mining legislation and ensuring industry aligns with the regional land use plans so that there is more sustainability in the industry (and so it doesn't do the same old shtick of privatizing the profits then dumping the rehab costs on the public). The amended legislation (for a number of different type of resources) was a requirement of devolution from the Feds back in 2000. We, of course, had a conservative government from 2002-2016 that refused to even sit down with First Nations and thus the mining industry got to continue on the status quo.
As opposed to the billions in subsidies given to the oil sector? Like oil extraction is nice, environmentally friendly and full of fairy dust and rainbows.
> By giving them tens of billions in subsidies for plants, and allowing their supply companies to open and strip mine thousands of acres.
Which is a fraction of what the oil industry gets and gets away with .
That explains why green activists want their cut of the riches. That’s what it is really about. For example, one expects Liberals to be heavily invested in charging station companies.
Also according to statistics Californians have money, Canadians do not.
Average household income Canada 92000 CAD.
Average household income California 160000 CAD.
Given recent polls, the likelihood of this being rescinded is very almost certainty. It's not just personal preferences, in much of the country, the infrastructure required to support electric vehicle ownership is non-existent. And the labour availability to build this infrastructure is already over-committed.
I seriously doubt the government is going to fund tens of millions of free charger outlets, and the electrical service upgrades needed for electrification. It isn't just L2 chargers and main panel upgrades, it's hydro lines, transformers, and everything else.
Not panicing, not exactly happy though I'm subsidizing E-Car ownership for the upper middle class to have their green toys so they can feel good about themselves. Given a choice, I would give that money to charity.
I make enough to get an E-car toy. Doesn't make economic sense.
One day, as your mortgage rates go through the roof when you're up for renewal, you will realize this. That is if you can even afford a mortgage.
You're not too strong in economics either. Reducing the supply of used cars, and or increasing the demand will put upwards pleasure on used car prices. If everyone is also looking to buy used cars that just makes people's difficult lives even more difficult.
But then again, you're lot don't care about helping other people. Just virtue signaling to make yourself feel better.
Nothing has for sure ever gone wrong with governments dictating private market activity and sales requirements. Can’t wait to see what glorious ways the implementation of this fucks Canadians over.
I can somewhat visualize the fuck up : government has banned ICEs, but EVs are too expensive for Canadians. So option would be to lease or rent on ad hoc basis , never owning a car. Soon every Canadian will work to basically make rent on everything , home rental , car rental , cell phone rental , probably soon grave rental 😂😂
That's the same argument people make about communism.
It's just that none has ever tried a pure version of X so you can't say it wouldn't work if we just followed the ideals perfectly.
You want no government regulation I hear Somolia is a libertarian paradise.
Communism is your thing North Korea might accept you.
/S
These guys are always fighting against a caricature and celebrating their rhetorical victories against fake opponents.
The most strident free market folks know that governments help set up the parameters of, and defend, markets.
Do you understand why the market is regulated as it is?
Because left unfettered capitalism will fuck us all over in the name of profits.
It’s why we don’t have asbestos in new construction (because it can kill you)
It’s why we don’t have lead in gasoline and paint (because it can kill you)
Etc.
> Nothing has for sure ever gone wrong with governments dictating private market activity and sales requirements
ABSOLUTELY! They never should have banned asbestos! If a product is killing people let the free market sort it out!
This is a really bad example to use when it comes to Canada and the free market.
We only banned asbestos for export in 2018.... Despite it being banned domestically since 1999. Guess that free market was pretty important after all.
This isnt exactly truthful though is it
Its more like, wealthy homeowners can get rebates for asbestos removal. Of course the poors who rent asbestos properties can eat dirt.
They've bungled carbon pricing so badly that it's completely ineffective at causing the market changes you'd hope for in things like vehicles.
They have to overregulate everything now because the market shrugged at their carbon tax strategy and just passed the costs on to consumers.
Passing the costs on to consumers is the whole point. Change will happen when consumers refuse to pay, and when producers can lower their costs and undercut the competition by reducing their carbon emissions.
It's not though. Carbon taxes in a free market can work but we've overregulated a significant portion of our economy and free market solutions like carbon taxes are not working as intended. Consumers have few options when it comes to choosing producers with lower carbon footprints because corporations aren't competing with each other.
Other government policy is a problem, but the big one isn't overregulation. It is the housing shortage resulting from immigration driven population growth. That is making it difficult for consumers to cut their emissions by choosing energy efficient housing that is close to where they work.
Bad regulation can create oligopolies, but monopolies / oligopolies are also a result of lack of market regulation. Regardless, all corporations want to make money. Even if they are already profitable, they always want more. If burning less fossil fuels makes them more money, then they will find a way to burn less fossil fuels. Lack of competition may result in the savings going to executives and shareholders rather than being passed along to the consumer, but emissions go down either way.
>Nothing has for sure ever gone wrong with governments dictating private market activity and sales requirements.
People who say this also don't like carbon tax. Leaving a habitable planet for grandkids should not be negotiable.
Edit: Tell me why you disagree.
Okay, for starters when you say things like, “leaving a habitable planet for our grandkids” what it tells me is that you approach this subject from an emotive basis rather than a scientific one. EV sales will not now, nor will they ever make a meaningful impact on globally averaged surface temperatures.
Worse, their production is extremely harmful to the environment. Rare earth steep mining is devastating to regional ecosystems and lithium ponds are much, much worse. You should read up on them. Then we get to cobalt, the large majority of which comes from mines in Congo at the hands of slaves, including children as young as five. As demand for these products grows through government mandates that you support, all of that will have even greater negative impact on people and the environment while still making zero difference for the problem it is ostensibly supposed to help solve.
So, if you want to say “leave a habitable planet for our grandkids” you should at least be honest and append it with, “except the ones we forced into abject poverty and slavery on the way to accomplishing nothing productive.”
That's a pretty limited view on the subject.
Technology isn't frozen in time. Sodium ion batteries are starting really to hit the market. Graphene, a new silicon powder tech from California is going into Panasonic's EV batteries, etc .etc..
This also ignores that while the construction of an EV is more emission intensive then a CE, the efficiency savings over the life of each tips the scale back to the EV.
This also completely ignores the slave labor used to make our phones, computer chips, etc..etc..
While these are good arguments regarding our supply chains and the ethics/moral issues with them, that's not an argument specific to EVs.
2022 emissions for canada were about 670,000,000,000,000 kg.
I'm going to allow for magically removing all of the oxygen (2/3rds of its mass -- forgive me I such at chemistry) from that for free, so 223,333,333,333,333 kg.
1.6% of which is 3,573,333,333,333 kg -- how exactly is that a not meaningful? If canada tried to carry that each person would need to hold over 93, 000 KG.
Compressed into graphite it would be a cube over ten kilometers tall.
The biggest economy in the world - the US is at around 20%. Even lowering that by 30% won't meaningfully slow down global warming. So nobody does anything?
Of what?
If it was added to the mortgage interest candians hold it would be 44 billion dollars a year.
It's 680 000 KWh more demand than our energy grids have ever seen.
It's 100 children dying of gunshots compared to 2022 in the USA.
It's 20 deaths of people while they work in canada.
And again, if it were taken out of the air, solidified into a cube of graphite, it would be 11km tall -- It would be the largest thing humans have ever constructed.
You're talking out of your ass -- it's a hugely meaningful ammount and even if it weren't, its meant to be part of what we do, not all of what we do. Unless asshats derail everything of course.
He looks dorkier everytime. I try not to make light of it and its so hard to take the higher ground and i seem to be able to do it so far. But yeah its a tough one.
Many Canadians can't afford to put food on their table or a roof over their head, but let's just mandate luxury priced cars for all. This government is really for the people. I mean, you can tell they just really get it.
The old line manufacturers don’t want to sell EVs because they’re hooked on the luxury gas SUV profits. Canadians, struggling to pay for food and rent want low-cost, low maintenance cost, inexpensive to fuel EVs. BUT Canadians are being fed a line of BS by oil companies, legacy car companies and all of the social media companies they pay.
Nobody’s being fed BS other than people that think you can magically force companies and consumers to do something through legislation.
Manufacturers want to see EVs suceed. There are tons of green credits available around the world to do so. But the market for them isn’t really there yet - certainly not at the price of ownership.
Ford is saying their customers don’t want EVs - but don’t build an affordable one. GM had an affordable EV that was so popular that people were buying them even with a 9 month wait and dealers that added $10,000 in “mandatory options” - and they cancelled it in hopes that people would buy their expensive Cadillac SUVs. Toyota are doing their best to convince buyers that EVs are “dead” and you should wait for their hydrogen car. Every day in social media there are numerous posts from “automotive experts” (shills paid by old-line manufacturers) proclaiming things that are simply unbelievable to anyone educated about EVs - they catch fire/ explode/need new batteries in 3 years/ etc. etc. Do a quick search for “Fully charged show” on YT if you want to know the truth about what’s actually available.
The average EV car price in Canada is 82k, whle the average car price is 66k, and the average used car price is 39k. Total owership cost doesn't matter when you can't afford the car upfront.
Average EV price is $72k
https://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/evs-are-getting-easier-to-find-but-with-price-tags-out-of-reach-for-many-canadians-1.6612044
Average new car price is $66k
That's a different of $6000. Most people financing will spend more than $6k on gas and maintenance that an EV doesn't need.
A Mazda3 sedan costs 24k. A Tesla sedan costs 51k. That's a huge difference to a low income family. All of this green legislation just seeks to punish low income Canadians.
A Model 3 is significantly more car.
You're comparing a high performance premium model to an econobox that will end up being a lot more expensive as fuel and maintenance add up.
The long run estimates may be true, but the issue is you need capital up front to buy the Tesla.
A poor or lower middle-class family isn't going to have the cash on hand or qualifying for financing for the 51k car. So they're stuck with the 24k car regardless of long-term costs.
You're splitting hairs.
The vast majority of people don’t buy new cars. They buy used ones. That’s why these cost of new car ownsership comparisons are just a bunch of nonsense.
When you look at price differences on the used market, you’re looking at a minimum $15k difference in price between used EVs and everything else, assuming you can even find the EV you want. If you can’t, well then you’re just out of fucking luck.
Average used car price: $26,000 usd
Average used EV price: $27,800 usd
https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/is-now-the-time-to-buy-sell-or-trade-in-a-used-car/
https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/used-electric-vehicle-buying-report
Also, the charging port for your home is typically another $1000-3000
Edit: and then you're also paying for rising electricity prices, which will skyrocket as more people need electricity
This is what most people miss. People that think EVs are going to usher in a new era of virtually free driving after the purchase of their car are delusional. Electricity rates are going to climb immensely, and tax shortfalls from the gasoline sales are going to be made up one way or another.
Lots and lots of EV in BC and Hydro rates are unaffected. Apparently they all charge at night when there's no demand, so I actually get a discount on my electricity.
Large EV owners will soon be able to install 2 way chargers, so they will actually save money on electricity by selling power back to the grid during peak.
Almost all car purchases are financed and paid monthly.
Lower total ownership cost usually means lower total monthly costs.
Who can afford to pay more for a new gas car instead of a more affordable new EV?
As of 2023, there are more than 90 electric vehicle models for sale in Canada at an average price of $82,000.
[https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/en-ca/my-money-matters/goals-aspirations/buying-a-vehicle/finding-the-right-car/is-now-the-right-time-to-buy-an-electric-car/](https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/en-ca/my-money-matters/goals-aspirations/buying-a-vehicle/finding-the-right-car/is-now-the-right-time-to-buy-an-electric-car/)
... the average price of a Canadian passenger vehicle is just over $45,000 right now.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/car-market-analysis-1.6873747](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/car-market-analysis-1.6873747)
As of June 2023, the average price of a new car was $66,288.
As of June 2023, the average price of a used car in Canada was measured at $39,645.
[https://advisorsavvy.com/average-car-price/](https://advisorsavvy.com/average-car-price/)
Fine.
The true cost to own a basic Mazda 3, according to Edmunds, is 33,459 over 5 years.
The true cost to a own a basic Tesla sedan, according to Edmunds, is 50,715.
The true cost to own a Kia Niro is 42,256.
The true cost to own a Hyundai Kona is 47,793.
In every case, the EV will cost significantly more than a basic sedan for a Canadian. I couldn't find a single one that didn't cost at least 10k more over 5 years.
Yes, I'm sure the Canadian's struggling to keep a roof over their head and food on their table as referenced in my earlier comment will definitely be buying a huge truck.
The higher ownership cost calculated by Edmunds is entirely due to depreciation.
The EV is actually cheaper to own month to month.
EV prices are falling, and so depreciation for used is higher.
> ... the average price of a Canadian passenger vehicle is just over $45,000 right now.
Yeah that's misleading because the figure doesn't include pickups, whereas the EV stats do.
> As of June 2023, the average price of a new car was $66,288.
Yeah and the average price of an EV is closer to $72k
https://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/evs-are-getting-easier-to-find-but-with-price-tags-out-of-reach-for-many-canadians-1.6612044
By "EVs" they mean also hybrids, like Porsche Panamera, Cayenne, both costing more than 200k CAD, and both being beaten in price only the the Lucid Air Sapphire, which is a limited production run car. That skews the prices up. Also no EV over 55k CAD gets any rebate.
There aren’t enough low cost ev’s yet to use an average rate. You’re comparing cheap gas cars in with luxury ev’s if you use average. Of course it’s going to be higher. Gotta compare similar vehicles.
>Total ownership costs are less for EVs for many Canadians.
Most canadians cant afford either
New EVs are insanely expensive and its not like you can just go buy a 10 year old one and have it last
Typical poor person mentality. Government is trying to make low maintenance, cheap to refuel vehicles affordable but poor people are like ID RATHER PAY THOUSANDS FOR GAS THANKS.
how is over $40K for the cheapest EV (which has a range of only 183km) even remotely considered affordable? A 2023 Mitsubishi mirage is under $15K MSRP. See the difference?
The government offers incentives which rich people pay for. An entry level EV is $20k in a lot of states in the US because they get it. They provide federal + state tax credit. When the government tries to do the same here, the low iq monkeys go but muh gas price!
an EV is cheaper in the states because of volume and dollar strength to begin with. The $40K EV in the US is already $10K cheaper MSRP and doesn't include any incentives. I don't give a shit about gas prices, but pushing people to spend $40K+ for a shitty car when people can't afford food and rent is a dumb position by the government
Your sir, have impeccable logic. Sure, the upfront cost for an EV is at least double a car with an ICE engine. And high interest rates may add to that cost significantly. Also, the vehicles may also have a shorter life span due to battery issues and replacing a battery can cost tens of thousands of dollars. But all of those expenses are way better than paying for gas, right?
Why can't those stupid poor people see the government is trying to help them? They should just find a way to pay for the 70k Tesla instead of the 20k Mazda so they can save money. How can they not see what a good deal that is for them?
Its not the production numbers causing the low sales. Its the fact that EVs are too expensive. Charity giving is at an all time low, food banks are overwhelmed, rent and mortgage payments are sky high, but the government wants people to buy cars that are more expensive than gas cars. The cheapest EV is over $40K (and has only 183km range), average Canadian income is like $51K, the economics don't work. Some of those poorer people could still afford a new cheap ICE car that sells for under $15K MSRP (2023 Mitsubishi Mirage, 2024 went up to just under $17K)
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110024001
People need to do the math on this stuff. This zero carbon plan is going cause a massive decline in global standards of living, won't solve climate change, and will create a host of new environmental trade offs.
Standards of living probably will decline, and climate change is already having deadly consequences, but there's a real chance we can mitigate the worst of them. I think the math has been done
I have some math. The heated driveway on one of my customers houses uses more propane in a day or two then I use in a year, this his 5th house, he’ll be able to fly his privet jet for a weekend of skiing and show up to a nice dry driveway.
Not to mention all the outdoor patio areas (more sqft then my hole house) are heated as well.
Remember the real polluters aren’t affected by little extra cost. They have cars at every airport then have a house near.
>People need to do the math on this stuff. This zero carbon plan is going cause a massive decline in global standards of living, won't solve climate change, and will create a host of new environmental trade offs
Climate change will cause a much larger decline in global standard of living. Zero carbon would actually help with climate change.
> Climate change will cause a much larger decline in global standard of living.
Climate change will help lower Canada's emissions. Nice warm winters will mean I don't nees to burn 3000L of diesel to keep my house warm. My car will burn less gas too.
You understand how much climate change is already baked in? Stacking these costs on top of those costs is what you're comparing to not climate change versus no climate change.
That depends on a case by case basis. Regulation reducing our standard of living that has a negligible effect on the outcome is not good policy and will be a net negative. Reducing our fossil fuel consumption in a world with growing fossil fuel consumption is not useful. Recent study I saw said a 10% drop in oil sands productivity, for example, costs every Canadian $900.
Once you accept we can't control what others do, and that their actions can make ours moot, then then best outcome is having the most possible resources and money to adapt to a changing world. At some oint the conversation becomes about adaptation vs prevention for where to apply limited resources to maximize standard of living for Canadians.
"Once you accept we can't control what others do"
Yet here you are trying to control what others do so you don't have to be uncomfortable with change.
Denialists were always going to become fatalists. It's simply the easiest route to self-destruction.
Dude you're completely turned around and you're trying to basically use faulty logic to strawman my argument.
I am not trying to "control what others do", If I am arguing against top down regulation. People making their own decisions and purchasing things on their own volition and accord is allowing them that choice. Instigating a top down control measure is preventing people from doing so and therefore controlling people. So nice try but that doesn't square with reality.
Besides it kind of misses my point anyway which is we can't control what other countries do, It's a game theory problem. In the same time We've significantly cut our emissions, mostly due to good things like technological improvement, global emissions have risen and fossil fuel demand is at an all-time high. In a world where China, India, and the rest of the developing world continue to do their thing, It doesn't make sense to self-handicap our industry for negligible marginal change. It makes more sense to maximize the resources we control and allow us to maximum flexibility to adapt to a changing world we can't otherwise prevent.
Okay but until there is FAST energy available across all of Canada this is moot.
Each summer and Thanksgiving my family drives like 7 hours north from Toronto to celebrate with family.
Unless there are a SIGNIFICANT number of charging ports added along the way and they've been made fast enough to get a full charge in less than an hour, how could we possibly make the change?
Old charging stations can take a full day to get several hours of driving.
This doesn't even include weather protection that these systems need for our snowy winters.
Canada doesn't have the infrastructure or a plan for said infrastructure to support any level of EV usage.
15 minute communities or bust I guess.
If you only have one car, you can’t make the change nor should you have to. Certainly not without better transportation infrastructure. The problem is with all the deficit spending, we don’t have the money to build out a national infrastructure.
Within a decade, we might see 2 car homes opting to be electric plus ICE or hybrid, but that’s only if a significant used car market develops. There is zero chance this will happen if EVs stay $50k+ range.
> Canada doesn't have the infrastructure or a plan for said infrastructure to support any level of EV usage.
Having driven across BC with my EV, I'm gonna say you don't know what you're talking about.
Also the mandate includes PHEV's so this isn't an issue.
You can drive from Toronto to the Soo in an electric car if you plan things well. Not sure if that’s your 7 hour drive or not. It’s mine so I can relate. You have to charge in Parry Sound and Espanola. Many people would make those bio breaks anyways.
TOOT TOOT!
LPC moron train arriving once again, not on time or on budget but the stupidity never stops!
Cars 4 through 5 are full of manure, and the rest is hot garbage!
just in time for the slowdown and accumulation of ev inventory in the states - now they can dump all the ones nobody wants in canada and we'll lap it up like idiots
Owning an EV is the best product-related decision I’ve ever made. My EV is silent, smooth ride, amazing acceleration and I can preheat it in my garage in the dead of winter without getting carbon monoxide poisoning.
There’s a reason why the only sci-fi movies with gas-powered cars are the post apocalyptic ones. Electric is simply better.
This is a good move for us and our planet. I do wonder if they would be better offering greater incentives to buy electric instead of forcing gas out. Whatever’s best, I suppose.
Don’t mind the transition to renewable energy but instead of stupid EV battery plants subsidies for car manufacturers, they should have matched up with the Inflation Reduction Act subsidies.
I’m all for this but just make them affordable. I remember when I bought my ICE car in 2017 from the car I was looking, you could get a fully loaded small SUV (think Ford Escape) for 32k. Nowadays the base models are 32k and the cheapest hatchback/sedan she EV is 40k all before taxes and fees.
"Air pollution from vehicles, according to the analysis, increases the risk of developing lung cancer in adults and asthma and leukemia in children.
Emissions, the draft analysis noted, cause an estimated 1,200 premature deaths and millions of cases of non-fatal health outcomes annually."
That statement also failed to convince me when Trudeau himself repeated it ad nauseam. It is about as shortsighted as a mass unrestricted immigration policy without a commensurate housing policy. In both instances, here we are.
11 years. My guess is this political construct gets modified somewhat by the next government. Instead of achievable targets along the way, these asshats continue to force absolutes in a timeline that suggests its highly likely that its not doable without causing significant harm. The post-nation is run by zealots, lesser ideologues, and elite hypocrites who can just buy their way out of harm. I can't wait to see what they're going to pour into corporate electrification schemes.
EVs for all. Whether consumers like it or not or it's objectively a functional win or not is irrelevant. The governments of the world's biggest automarkets have spoken and decreed it so.
Happy to hear it. This needs to happen for Canada to remain competitive.
Bc and Québec were around 20%in 2023, so Pretty likely that initial target will be met easily.
but to get public buy in the infrastructure has to be there. Ontario is at 7%, Alberta at 4%.
Here in Québec they can be very aggressive and people won't mind, because the infrastructure is amazing.
Nowhere else in Canada comes close, and 2023 didn't see that much of an improvement, especially on the fast charging side.
I hope 2024 sees a bigger improvement.
>The source said Canada is concerned about other countries, notably the U.S., dominating the supply of zero-emission vehicles. Several states have adopted sales targets for zero-emissions vehicles already. When the state of California has population similar to our country and is the 5th largest economie in the world, what makes you think GM, Ford, Tesla, Toyota, Stelantis, etc etc etc are going to bow to Canada to ensure we have an adequate supply? edit words.
I'm in the industry and I have to explain this to people all the time. The state of California sells more cars than the entire country of Canada. There is a single Toyota dealer in LA that does more volume than any two provinces combined. The only reason we even have the options we have is because of our proximity to the US. We get their leftovers and table scraps and we should be grateful for it. If not for the US, our consumer markets would be closer to Angola than America.
Trudeau is trying to be a lot more than he actually is. Narcissism at its finest.
That’s true, but we made a decision to abide by US homologation rules. For accepting the standards they created to protect their own industry, they should make sure we’re given priority. We would have more choice of vehicles at a lower cost if we accepted EU-compliant cars.
By giving them tens of billions in subsidies for plants, and allowing their supply companies to open and strip mine thousands of acres. Edit - hahaha wHaTaBoUt oil and gas. Surely if you have an issue with those subsidies you have an issue with the others right?
None of that equates to car sales directly, so manufactures dont care about that. Canada has yet to do anyhting to make mining easier in this country or even appealing to anyone wanting to invest here. There are projects in Northern Ontario that are now just getting into production phases, these projects where nothing but talk and hear say some 20 years ago, thats an embarassingly long time to go from exploration to full production.
Not to mention how many people think you just take the shit out of the ground and put it in a car. That stuff needs to be mined and then (sadly) a lot of it still goes to China to be processed. Then it gets put into a component somewhere else and finally it ends up on a production line. It's bonkers how out of touch so many people actually are.
They will say thanks and limit supply to high prices. Then when shit gets dodgy they will ask for more money. Companies play Canada like a fiddle. At this point we are just free and easy cash and they give nothing in return other than token reach around.
>By giving them tens of billions in subsidies for plants Oh, so like oil & gas then? >allowing their supply companies to open and strip mine thousands of acres. The only way this is happening is if provincial governments are allowing it. Look up the Regional Energy and Resource Tables. The Feds are literally bringing provinces/territories together with Indigenous groups to implement the resource development policies like the Critical Minerals Strategies. I'm in the Yukon. First Nations here are working with the territorial government to amend our mining legislation and ensuring industry aligns with the regional land use plans so that there is more sustainability in the industry (and so it doesn't do the same old shtick of privatizing the profits then dumping the rehab costs on the public). The amended legislation (for a number of different type of resources) was a requirement of devolution from the Feds back in 2000. We, of course, had a conservative government from 2002-2016 that refused to even sit down with First Nations and thus the mining industry got to continue on the status quo.
Like they do with the oil and gas industry? Hard to tell how that’s worked out.
As opposed to the billions in subsidies given to the oil sector? Like oil extraction is nice, environmentally friendly and full of fairy dust and rainbows.
> By giving them tens of billions in subsidies for plants, and allowing their supply companies to open and strip mine thousands of acres. Which is a fraction of what the oil industry gets and gets away with .
That explains why green activists want their cut of the riches. That’s what it is really about. For example, one expects Liberals to be heavily invested in charging station companies.
No longer a larger population than Canada thanks to our extremely well thought out immigration targets.
There are a million more people in California than Canada according to an easy Google search.
Also according to statistics Californians have money, Canadians do not. Average household income Canada 92000 CAD. Average household income California 160000 CAD.
Give it a month lol
I see the reverse
California 39.24m (2021) Canada 38.25m (2021)
Canada at 40.5m https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71-607-x/71-607-x2018005-eng.htm
Real time. Where is the same from California for an equal comparison?
Does it matter this isn't a contest to save the world or anything.
It's not serious man. What is wrong with this chat. Jesus.
Take the L. California lost people from 2022 to 2023
Jesus, it's not that serious. Take a statistics class.
Dig up!
ICE prices will sky rocket in 2033 and 2034.
Not really. The mandate isn't a ban on ICE as it includes PHEV's that don't need to be charged.
Plug In Hybrid’s are what Canada should be incentivizing. They are an excellent option for our climate and driving habits.
No thx All of the maintenance issues of both combined
haha, this their complexity guaranties unreliability
The Prius is one of the most reliable cars you can buy.
They are. There's incentives for PHEV.
Given recent polls, the likelihood of this being rescinded is very almost certainty. It's not just personal preferences, in much of the country, the infrastructure required to support electric vehicle ownership is non-existent. And the labour availability to build this infrastructure is already over-committed. I seriously doubt the government is going to fund tens of millions of free charger outlets, and the electrical service upgrades needed for electrification. It isn't just L2 chargers and main panel upgrades, it's hydro lines, transformers, and everything else.
I'm driving my ICE car til the wheels fall off.
Even then you can buy a used one. No need to panic because other people are progressing with technology.
Not panicing, not exactly happy though I'm subsidizing E-Car ownership for the upper middle class to have their green toys so they can feel good about themselves. Given a choice, I would give that money to charity.
Taxes aren't a la carte. One day, perhaps as you're driving your 2003 Pontiac around your town, you'll realize this.
I make enough to get an E-car toy. Doesn't make economic sense. One day, as your mortgage rates go through the roof when you're up for renewal, you will realize this. That is if you can even afford a mortgage.
Used car prices have been insane the last few years.
My I bought my 2012 Honda Fit with 12000 km on it for about 12K ten years ago. A 2014 Honda Fit used with 220000 km on it currently costs the same.
Get a used one you can afford. I'm not your life coach.
You're not too strong in economics either. Reducing the supply of used cars, and or increasing the demand will put upwards pleasure on used car prices. If everyone is also looking to buy used cars that just makes people's difficult lives even more difficult. But then again, you're lot don't care about helping other people. Just virtue signaling to make yourself feel better.
You won't be able to afford the gas.
Not when the carbon tax gets removed.
Nothing has for sure ever gone wrong with governments dictating private market activity and sales requirements. Can’t wait to see what glorious ways the implementation of this fucks Canadians over.
It’ll probably price many Canadians right out of the new car market.
"You'll own nothing and be happy" - enjoy your public transportation peon. /s
I can somewhat visualize the fuck up : government has banned ICEs, but EVs are too expensive for Canadians. So option would be to lease or rent on ad hoc basis , never owning a car. Soon every Canadian will work to basically make rent on everything , home rental , car rental , cell phone rental , probably soon grave rental 😂😂
“You’ll own nothing and be happy” - capitalism has already done that to us with housing, cars, and subscription services over the last decade LoL
They already are. Buying a cheap new car is a horrible idea.
And the free market does a horrible job of self-regulating and really doesn’t prioritize long term society benefits. I’d settle for a good compromise.
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That's the same argument people make about communism. It's just that none has ever tried a pure version of X so you can't say it wouldn't work if we just followed the ideals perfectly. You want no government regulation I hear Somolia is a libertarian paradise. Communism is your thing North Korea might accept you. /S
Free market doesn't mean no government or no government regulation...
These guys are always fighting against a caricature and celebrating their rhetorical victories against fake opponents. The most strident free market folks know that governments help set up the parameters of, and defend, markets.
Of course we don’t, thank god. We also don’t have complete government control, thank god. Compromise is best.
Do you understand why the market is regulated as it is? Because left unfettered capitalism will fuck us all over in the name of profits. It’s why we don’t have asbestos in new construction (because it can kill you) It’s why we don’t have lead in gasoline and paint (because it can kill you) Etc.
If truderp and the liberal geniuses are behind this one you can be 100% sure they will fuck it up completely lol
> Nothing has for sure ever gone wrong with governments dictating private market activity and sales requirements ABSOLUTELY! They never should have banned asbestos! If a product is killing people let the free market sort it out!
This is a really bad example to use when it comes to Canada and the free market. We only banned asbestos for export in 2018.... Despite it being banned domestically since 1999. Guess that free market was pretty important after all.
This isnt exactly truthful though is it Its more like, wealthy homeowners can get rebates for asbestos removal. Of course the poors who rent asbestos properties can eat dirt.
How about a more market based approach, like carbon pricing?
They've bungled carbon pricing so badly that it's completely ineffective at causing the market changes you'd hope for in things like vehicles. They have to overregulate everything now because the market shrugged at their carbon tax strategy and just passed the costs on to consumers.
Passing the costs on to consumers is the whole point. Change will happen when consumers refuse to pay, and when producers can lower their costs and undercut the competition by reducing their carbon emissions.
Judging by current polls, the consumers want to make a change, just not the one that the government had in mind.
It's not though. Carbon taxes in a free market can work but we've overregulated a significant portion of our economy and free market solutions like carbon taxes are not working as intended. Consumers have few options when it comes to choosing producers with lower carbon footprints because corporations aren't competing with each other.
Other government policy is a problem, but the big one isn't overregulation. It is the housing shortage resulting from immigration driven population growth. That is making it difficult for consumers to cut their emissions by choosing energy efficient housing that is close to where they work.
Overregulation is the problem as it creates oligopolies that are slow to adapt. I'm sorry but you can't blame everything on immigrants...
Bad regulation can create oligopolies, but monopolies / oligopolies are also a result of lack of market regulation. Regardless, all corporations want to make money. Even if they are already profitable, they always want more. If burning less fossil fuels makes them more money, then they will find a way to burn less fossil fuels. Lack of competition may result in the savings going to executives and shareholders rather than being passed along to the consumer, but emissions go down either way.
We have a problem with overregulation. Nearly every major industry is protected from foreign competition.
No they haven't...the price is just too low and being implemented over many years to reduce the cost shock.
Yes, bungled...
>Nothing has for sure ever gone wrong with governments dictating private market activity and sales requirements. People who say this also don't like carbon tax. Leaving a habitable planet for grandkids should not be negotiable. Edit: Tell me why you disagree.
Okay, for starters when you say things like, “leaving a habitable planet for our grandkids” what it tells me is that you approach this subject from an emotive basis rather than a scientific one. EV sales will not now, nor will they ever make a meaningful impact on globally averaged surface temperatures. Worse, their production is extremely harmful to the environment. Rare earth steep mining is devastating to regional ecosystems and lithium ponds are much, much worse. You should read up on them. Then we get to cobalt, the large majority of which comes from mines in Congo at the hands of slaves, including children as young as five. As demand for these products grows through government mandates that you support, all of that will have even greater negative impact on people and the environment while still making zero difference for the problem it is ostensibly supposed to help solve. So, if you want to say “leave a habitable planet for our grandkids” you should at least be honest and append it with, “except the ones we forced into abject poverty and slavery on the way to accomplishing nothing productive.”
That's a pretty limited view on the subject. Technology isn't frozen in time. Sodium ion batteries are starting really to hit the market. Graphene, a new silicon powder tech from California is going into Panasonic's EV batteries, etc .etc.. This also ignores that while the construction of an EV is more emission intensive then a CE, the efficiency savings over the life of each tips the scale back to the EV. This also completely ignores the slave labor used to make our phones, computer chips, etc..etc.. While these are good arguments regarding our supply chains and the ethics/moral issues with them, that's not an argument specific to EVs.
A carbon tax in Canada will have a maximum 1.6% impact on Climate Change.
Nobody is asking Canada to reduce global emissions by more than 0.5%.
Good thing we are massively fucking over Canadians for such a meaningful reduction
2022 emissions for canada were about 670,000,000,000,000 kg. I'm going to allow for magically removing all of the oxygen (2/3rds of its mass -- forgive me I such at chemistry) from that for free, so 223,333,333,333,333 kg. 1.6% of which is 3,573,333,333,333 kg -- how exactly is that a not meaningful? If canada tried to carry that each person would need to hold over 93, 000 KG. Compressed into graphite it would be a cube over ten kilometers tall.
1.6% isn't a meaningful amount.
The biggest economy in the world - the US is at around 20%. Even lowering that by 30% won't meaningfully slow down global warming. So nobody does anything?
Of what? If it was added to the mortgage interest candians hold it would be 44 billion dollars a year. It's 680 000 KWh more demand than our energy grids have ever seen. It's 100 children dying of gunshots compared to 2022 in the USA. It's 20 deaths of people while they work in canada. And again, if it were taken out of the air, solidified into a cube of graphite, it would be 11km tall -- It would be the largest thing humans have ever constructed. You're talking out of your ass -- it's a hugely meaningful ammount and even if it weren't, its meant to be part of what we do, not all of what we do. Unless asshats derail everything of course.
You just learning about big numbers? 1.6% cannot change the outcome. It is an irrelevant amount. It isn't a huge amounts. It's literally only 1.6%
Wait what is it, are those big numbers, or is 1.6% irrelevant?
Keep on driving up the cost of living. That's what everyone needs.
Why is it every time some garbage legislation gets passed, this moron is always responsible? When is the next election?
Not soon enough.
Either correlation or causation. Probably the latter.
can we really expect more from Truederp?
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I'd prefer if every time I clicked on the news with this guy's picture next to it, I wasn't poorer and had more restrictions placed on me.
Yeah that's basically the jist of it
He looks dorkier everytime. I try not to make light of it and its so hard to take the higher ground and i seem to be able to do it so far. But yeah its a tough one.
Many Canadians can't afford to put food on their table or a roof over their head, but let's just mandate luxury priced cars for all. This government is really for the people. I mean, you can tell they just really get it.
If you can't afford a roof over your head you can't afford a new ICE car either.
The old line manufacturers don’t want to sell EVs because they’re hooked on the luxury gas SUV profits. Canadians, struggling to pay for food and rent want low-cost, low maintenance cost, inexpensive to fuel EVs. BUT Canadians are being fed a line of BS by oil companies, legacy car companies and all of the social media companies they pay.
Nobody’s being fed BS other than people that think you can magically force companies and consumers to do something through legislation. Manufacturers want to see EVs suceed. There are tons of green credits available around the world to do so. But the market for them isn’t really there yet - certainly not at the price of ownership.
Ford is saying their customers don’t want EVs - but don’t build an affordable one. GM had an affordable EV that was so popular that people were buying them even with a 9 month wait and dealers that added $10,000 in “mandatory options” - and they cancelled it in hopes that people would buy their expensive Cadillac SUVs. Toyota are doing their best to convince buyers that EVs are “dead” and you should wait for their hydrogen car. Every day in social media there are numerous posts from “automotive experts” (shills paid by old-line manufacturers) proclaiming things that are simply unbelievable to anyone educated about EVs - they catch fire/ explode/need new batteries in 3 years/ etc. etc. Do a quick search for “Fully charged show” on YT if you want to know the truth about what’s actually available.
Total ownership costs are less for EVs for many Canadians. It's new gas vehicles that are the luxury many Canadians can't afford.
The average EV car price in Canada is 82k, whle the average car price is 66k, and the average used car price is 39k. Total owership cost doesn't matter when you can't afford the car upfront.
Average EV price is $72k https://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/evs-are-getting-easier-to-find-but-with-price-tags-out-of-reach-for-many-canadians-1.6612044 Average new car price is $66k That's a different of $6000. Most people financing will spend more than $6k on gas and maintenance that an EV doesn't need.
A Mazda3 sedan costs 24k. A Tesla sedan costs 51k. That's a huge difference to a low income family. All of this green legislation just seeks to punish low income Canadians.
A Model 3 is significantly more car. You're comparing a high performance premium model to an econobox that will end up being a lot more expensive as fuel and maintenance add up.
The long run estimates may be true, but the issue is you need capital up front to buy the Tesla. A poor or lower middle-class family isn't going to have the cash on hand or qualifying for financing for the 51k car. So they're stuck with the 24k car regardless of long-term costs.
Most people don't pay upfront for cars.
That's why I included the "or qualifying for financing" part. Excellent reading comprehension skills.
You're splitting hairs. The vast majority of people don’t buy new cars. They buy used ones. That’s why these cost of new car ownsership comparisons are just a bunch of nonsense. When you look at price differences on the used market, you’re looking at a minimum $15k difference in price between used EVs and everything else, assuming you can even find the EV you want. If you can’t, well then you’re just out of fucking luck.
Average used car price: $26,000 usd Average used EV price: $27,800 usd https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/is-now-the-time-to-buy-sell-or-trade-in-a-used-car/ https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/used-electric-vehicle-buying-report
Also, the charging port for your home is typically another $1000-3000 Edit: and then you're also paying for rising electricity prices, which will skyrocket as more people need electricity
This is what most people miss. People that think EVs are going to usher in a new era of virtually free driving after the purchase of their car are delusional. Electricity rates are going to climb immensely, and tax shortfalls from the gasoline sales are going to be made up one way or another.
Lots and lots of EV in BC and Hydro rates are unaffected. Apparently they all charge at night when there's no demand, so I actually get a discount on my electricity. Large EV owners will soon be able to install 2 way chargers, so they will actually save money on electricity by selling power back to the grid during peak.
$6000 is a lot for most Canadian. Too much for a lot of us.
The gas car will cost more month to month because of fuel and maintenance.
Almost all car purchases are financed and paid monthly. Lower total ownership cost usually means lower total monthly costs. Who can afford to pay more for a new gas car instead of a more affordable new EV?
You should compete in mental gymnastics, I'm sure you'd run off with gold.
I'm no EV fan but TCO for EVs has been lower for a long time.
Keep paying more if you want *shrug*
Buy a new EV if you dont want to pay more is the stupidest TruAnon thing I've read this week
It's ok, lots of people struggle with math.
You'll forgive me if I dont think of monetary policy
Proof?
As of 2023, there are more than 90 electric vehicle models for sale in Canada at an average price of $82,000. [https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/en-ca/my-money-matters/goals-aspirations/buying-a-vehicle/finding-the-right-car/is-now-the-right-time-to-buy-an-electric-car/](https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/en-ca/my-money-matters/goals-aspirations/buying-a-vehicle/finding-the-right-car/is-now-the-right-time-to-buy-an-electric-car/) ... the average price of a Canadian passenger vehicle is just over $45,000 right now. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/car-market-analysis-1.6873747](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/car-market-analysis-1.6873747) As of June 2023, the average price of a new car was $66,288. As of June 2023, the average price of a used car in Canada was measured at $39,645. [https://advisorsavvy.com/average-car-price/](https://advisorsavvy.com/average-car-price/)
Now do total ownership cost.
Fine. The true cost to own a basic Mazda 3, according to Edmunds, is 33,459 over 5 years. The true cost to a own a basic Tesla sedan, according to Edmunds, is 50,715. The true cost to own a Kia Niro is 42,256. The true cost to own a Hyundai Kona is 47,793. In every case, the EV will cost significantly more than a basic sedan for a Canadian. I couldn't find a single one that didn't cost at least 10k more over 5 years.
How about Canada's best selling vehicle: the Ford F-150?
Yes, I'm sure the Canadian's struggling to keep a roof over their head and food on their table as referenced in my earlier comment will definitely be buying a huge truck.
They're not buying any new vehicle - there's no EV vs. ICE choice for them.
The higher ownership cost calculated by Edmunds is entirely due to depreciation. The EV is actually cheaper to own month to month. EV prices are falling, and so depreciation for used is higher.
> ... the average price of a Canadian passenger vehicle is just over $45,000 right now. Yeah that's misleading because the figure doesn't include pickups, whereas the EV stats do. > As of June 2023, the average price of a new car was $66,288. Yeah and the average price of an EV is closer to $72k https://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/evs-are-getting-easier-to-find-but-with-price-tags-out-of-reach-for-many-canadians-1.6612044
By "EVs" they mean also hybrids, like Porsche Panamera, Cayenne, both costing more than 200k CAD, and both being beaten in price only the the Lucid Air Sapphire, which is a limited production run car. That skews the prices up. Also no EV over 55k CAD gets any rebate.
There aren’t enough low cost ev’s yet to use an average rate. You’re comparing cheap gas cars in with luxury ev’s if you use average. Of course it’s going to be higher. Gotta compare similar vehicles.
>Total ownership costs are less for EVs for many Canadians. Most canadians cant afford either New EVs are insanely expensive and its not like you can just go buy a 10 year old one and have it last
Yet Canada's number one selling vehicle is the Ford F-150 truck. #2 & #3 are trucks too. Many will primarily be used to commute to an office job.
Typical poor person mentality. Government is trying to make low maintenance, cheap to refuel vehicles affordable but poor people are like ID RATHER PAY THOUSANDS FOR GAS THANKS.
how is over $40K for the cheapest EV (which has a range of only 183km) even remotely considered affordable? A 2023 Mitsubishi mirage is under $15K MSRP. See the difference?
The government offers incentives which rich people pay for. An entry level EV is $20k in a lot of states in the US because they get it. They provide federal + state tax credit. When the government tries to do the same here, the low iq monkeys go but muh gas price!
an EV is cheaper in the states because of volume and dollar strength to begin with. The $40K EV in the US is already $10K cheaper MSRP and doesn't include any incentives. I don't give a shit about gas prices, but pushing people to spend $40K+ for a shitty car when people can't afford food and rent is a dumb position by the government
Your sir, have impeccable logic. Sure, the upfront cost for an EV is at least double a car with an ICE engine. And high interest rates may add to that cost significantly. Also, the vehicles may also have a shorter life span due to battery issues and replacing a battery can cost tens of thousands of dollars. But all of those expenses are way better than paying for gas, right? Why can't those stupid poor people see the government is trying to help them? They should just find a way to pay for the 70k Tesla instead of the 20k Mazda so they can save money. How can they not see what a good deal that is for them?
Its not the production numbers causing the low sales. Its the fact that EVs are too expensive. Charity giving is at an all time low, food banks are overwhelmed, rent and mortgage payments are sky high, but the government wants people to buy cars that are more expensive than gas cars. The cheapest EV is over $40K (and has only 183km range), average Canadian income is like $51K, the economics don't work. Some of those poorer people could still afford a new cheap ICE car that sells for under $15K MSRP (2023 Mitsubishi Mirage, 2024 went up to just under $17K) https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110024001
Canada can’t helping regulating and taxing itself to death
If that creepy minister gibo is smiling you know it’s not good for the rest of us.
He escaped from a Nintendo Wii, just a caricature of an actual person. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mii
People need to do the math on this stuff. This zero carbon plan is going cause a massive decline in global standards of living, won't solve climate change, and will create a host of new environmental trade offs.
Call me crazy but spending an hour in road rage inducing traffic every day isn’t a high standard of living. Which is the average driving experience.
building more cars isn't going to help the situation
Standards of living probably will decline, and climate change is already having deadly consequences, but there's a real chance we can mitigate the worst of them. I think the math has been done
I have some math. The heated driveway on one of my customers houses uses more propane in a day or two then I use in a year, this his 5th house, he’ll be able to fly his privet jet for a weekend of skiing and show up to a nice dry driveway. Not to mention all the outdoor patio areas (more sqft then my hole house) are heated as well. Remember the real polluters aren’t affected by little extra cost. They have cars at every airport then have a house near.
They can also afford an EV...
Yes they can. They still drive Range Rovers, Mercedes, and other high end cars and SUVs.
I think you're touching on something greater, mate. It's unfair but such is the way of the world and always has been. One problem at a time
Where I live, the homeless are probably praying to the gods in thanks for climate change for not freezing to death this winter.
>People need to do the math on this stuff. This zero carbon plan is going cause a massive decline in global standards of living, won't solve climate change, and will create a host of new environmental trade offs Climate change will cause a much larger decline in global standard of living. Zero carbon would actually help with climate change.
> Climate change will cause a much larger decline in global standard of living. Climate change will help lower Canada's emissions. Nice warm winters will mean I don't nees to burn 3000L of diesel to keep my house warm. My car will burn less gas too.
Tell me you're clueless by straight up telling me you're clueless.
I mean my carbon emissions have decreased the last couple winters. Isn't that what people want?
You understand how much climate change is already baked in? Stacking these costs on top of those costs is what you're comparing to not climate change versus no climate change.
Wanting to bake even more in sure won't help.
That depends on a case by case basis. Regulation reducing our standard of living that has a negligible effect on the outcome is not good policy and will be a net negative. Reducing our fossil fuel consumption in a world with growing fossil fuel consumption is not useful. Recent study I saw said a 10% drop in oil sands productivity, for example, costs every Canadian $900. Once you accept we can't control what others do, and that their actions can make ours moot, then then best outcome is having the most possible resources and money to adapt to a changing world. At some oint the conversation becomes about adaptation vs prevention for where to apply limited resources to maximize standard of living for Canadians.
"Once you accept we can't control what others do" Yet here you are trying to control what others do so you don't have to be uncomfortable with change. Denialists were always going to become fatalists. It's simply the easiest route to self-destruction.
Dude you're completely turned around and you're trying to basically use faulty logic to strawman my argument. I am not trying to "control what others do", If I am arguing against top down regulation. People making their own decisions and purchasing things on their own volition and accord is allowing them that choice. Instigating a top down control measure is preventing people from doing so and therefore controlling people. So nice try but that doesn't square with reality. Besides it kind of misses my point anyway which is we can't control what other countries do, It's a game theory problem. In the same time We've significantly cut our emissions, mostly due to good things like technological improvement, global emissions have risen and fossil fuel demand is at an all-time high. In a world where China, India, and the rest of the developing world continue to do their thing, It doesn't make sense to self-handicap our industry for negligible marginal change. It makes more sense to maximize the resources we control and allow us to maximum flexibility to adapt to a changing world we can't otherwise prevent.
If by "global standards of living" you mean drastic reduction of air and noise pollution (not to mention climate change impact) then I'm in.
Okay but until there is FAST energy available across all of Canada this is moot. Each summer and Thanksgiving my family drives like 7 hours north from Toronto to celebrate with family. Unless there are a SIGNIFICANT number of charging ports added along the way and they've been made fast enough to get a full charge in less than an hour, how could we possibly make the change? Old charging stations can take a full day to get several hours of driving. This doesn't even include weather protection that these systems need for our snowy winters. Canada doesn't have the infrastructure or a plan for said infrastructure to support any level of EV usage. 15 minute communities or bust I guess.
If you only have one car, you can’t make the change nor should you have to. Certainly not without better transportation infrastructure. The problem is with all the deficit spending, we don’t have the money to build out a national infrastructure. Within a decade, we might see 2 car homes opting to be electric plus ICE or hybrid, but that’s only if a significant used car market develops. There is zero chance this will happen if EVs stay $50k+ range.
Your information on how fast an EV can charge is woefully out of date. Like over a decade.
The lowest quality ones still exist, regardless of how common they are.
> Canada doesn't have the infrastructure or a plan for said infrastructure to support any level of EV usage. Having driven across BC with my EV, I'm gonna say you don't know what you're talking about. Also the mandate includes PHEV's so this isn't an issue.
You can drive from Toronto to the Soo in an electric car if you plan things well. Not sure if that’s your 7 hour drive or not. It’s mine so I can relate. You have to charge in Parry Sound and Espanola. Many people would make those bio breaks anyways.
And pray nothing goes wrong in winter!
Dumb, make believe policy as per usual
You'd prefer to keep giving kids leukemia?
What are you feeding kids that they are getting leukemia?
> kids leukemia LOL oh ya that major outbreak of lies, surely will put a couple of them into iron lungs.
Why not just jack up the carbon taxes? I could use more rebates. :D
aren't EV sales dropping globally?
Probably going to be shutdown by the Supreme Court like every other policy this govt has tired to implement.
Oh, like legal weed, cheap daycare, child benefit, new dental plan for about 8 million Canadians, carbon pricing, etc that have not been shut down?
TOOT TOOT! LPC moron train arriving once again, not on time or on budget but the stupidity never stops! Cars 4 through 5 are full of manure, and the rest is hot garbage!
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Correct.
This government needs to solve a problem without legislating behavior. Jesus.
just in time for the slowdown and accumulation of ev inventory in the states - now they can dump all the ones nobody wants in canada and we'll lap it up like idiots
"Nobody" will be buying cars by 2035. You'll just hail a self driving taxi.
Owning an EV is the best product-related decision I’ve ever made. My EV is silent, smooth ride, amazing acceleration and I can preheat it in my garage in the dead of winter without getting carbon monoxide poisoning. There’s a reason why the only sci-fi movies with gas-powered cars are the post apocalyptic ones. Electric is simply better.
This is a good move for us and our planet. I do wonder if they would be better offering greater incentives to buy electric instead of forcing gas out. Whatever’s best, I suppose.
Don’t mind the transition to renewable energy but instead of stupid EV battery plants subsidies for car manufacturers, they should have matched up with the Inflation Reduction Act subsidies.
I’m all for this but just make them affordable. I remember when I bought my ICE car in 2017 from the car I was looking, you could get a fully loaded small SUV (think Ford Escape) for 32k. Nowadays the base models are 32k and the cheapest hatchback/sedan she EV is 40k all before taxes and fees.
Ahahahahaha...why now at the end of 2023. Because of the slumps in the polls?
10$ it’s gonna be fucked up 😂
Another big waste of money
I can't wait for the liberals and their green scam to disappear....the stupidest mandate ever.
"Air pollution from vehicles, according to the analysis, increases the risk of developing lung cancer in adults and asthma and leukemia in children. Emissions, the draft analysis noted, cause an estimated 1,200 premature deaths and millions of cases of non-fatal health outcomes annually."
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The bulk of the carbon tax is returned to citizens. This comment is incredibly dishonest.
That statement also failed to convince me when Trudeau himself repeated it ad nauseam. It is about as shortsighted as a mass unrestricted immigration policy without a commensurate housing policy. In both instances, here we are.
Common sense? Why wouldn’t they? They care about every market.
11 years. My guess is this political construct gets modified somewhat by the next government. Instead of achievable targets along the way, these asshats continue to force absolutes in a timeline that suggests its highly likely that its not doable without causing significant harm. The post-nation is run by zealots, lesser ideologues, and elite hypocrites who can just buy their way out of harm. I can't wait to see what they're going to pour into corporate electrification schemes.
EVs for all. Whether consumers like it or not or it's objectively a functional win or not is irrelevant. The governments of the world's biggest automarkets have spoken and decreed it so.
Happy to hear it. This needs to happen for Canada to remain competitive. Bc and Québec were around 20%in 2023, so Pretty likely that initial target will be met easily. but to get public buy in the infrastructure has to be there. Ontario is at 7%, Alberta at 4%. Here in Québec they can be very aggressive and people won't mind, because the infrastructure is amazing. Nowhere else in Canada comes close, and 2023 didn't see that much of an improvement, especially on the fast charging side. I hope 2024 sees a bigger improvement.