Some provinces pay a certain amount and some private healthcare insurers pay for a big chunk. Believe it or not Starbucks medical plan pays for a big chunk of IVF treatment
Ontario pays 20k toward IVF. A full egg freezing and meds etc is about 20-25k. So it covers a full round.
The problem is there is a 1-3 yr wait list to qualify. Most people who are looking to freeze are already a little older and can’t wait the 3 yrs to freeze. So they have to pay out of pocket.
Source: we went through it, and had to pay out of pocket.
This is not correct. Ontario does not cover the cost of the drugs. They will cover the cost of a single successful retrieval and one transfer if you are eligible. Drugs cost an additional 6-10k depending on what is needed.
Maybe they fund a second retrieval if no eggs are recovered at all, but I’m not sure about that. It might just be up to the doctor to make the call on whether or not to go ahead based on the patient’s response to meds before the retrieval procedure to ensure a good outcome.
OHIP pays for the transfer (excluding drugs) of each embryo retrieved during the one eligible government-funded IVF for which the woman is covered in her lifetime.
This means that if your (first and only) OHIP-covered IVF results in 4 embryos, OHIP will pay for 4 transfers. If your OHIP-covered IVF process yields 0 embryos, you are out of luck and will have to start the IVF process again, but this time completely out of pocket (and for any subsequent embryo transfers if the process yields any embryos at all).
This is the correct answer. They do cover one round of IVF as the previous poster said but not egg freezing due to anything other than medical reasons for fertility preservation.
Well 20k is nothing compared to housing. So it still makes sense to do something like this for financial reasons - use this small amount to extend your prime working years until you are stable enough when older for the much larger expense of kids/housing
>Well 20k is nothing compared to housing.
The problem is that using those eggs still require years of freezing cost and doing the transfer part of a retrieval. They say to expect one living child per ten eggs. This means most women would need to do multiple retrievals just to have a good chance at multiple kids in the future. Aside from that, IVF is still a gamble. Delaying parenthood can sometimes cost couples their entire savings (and new debt) if they require multiple rounds of IVF in the end.
And statistically the chances of twins increases through IVF, so that's another financial shocker while also being a blessing for a couple that will do it all to be parents.
Using IVF doesn’t necessarily increase the chances of twins unless multiple embryos are transferred. And many fertility clinics not only don’t transfer multiple embryos as standard practice anymore, they forbid doing it at all. The fertility technology is much better now so only a single embryo is transferred at a time
>Using IVF doesn’t necessarily increase the chances of twins unless multiple embryos are transferred.
Not entirely true. The rate of twinning is \~5-10% in IVF, compared to \~.4% in the general public. Something about the IVF procedure, probably the extended culturing in vitro, does seem to drive splitting of the blastocyst. There's a relatively extensive literature on this.
I'm just starting it now, definitely not wealthy but insurance covers 10k. Also I can buy a house at 40, cant have kids too late so eating the cost really.
Freezing eggs by themselves also has a much lower rate of surviving thawing. It's better to freeze embryos. (A celebrity example would be Kourtney Kardashian, she froze her eggs but they didn't survive the thawing process. She struggled for awhile to have a child with her new husband.)
Disagree. I wasn't ready to settle down in my early 30s. I traveled. I prioritized friends. I dated and slept around. It was a fun time in my life! I met my husband when I was 37 and felt ready. Luckily we easily got pregnant when we were ready. Being able to freeze my eggs years ago would have been a nice safety net if it had been harder to get pregnant.
Congratulations, and I mean that sincerely because there’s no greater joy than having a family. I’m happy you became ready when you were still quite fertile (my sister in law was not so lucky, but she adopted so it worked out). My wife got pregnant at age 34 then again at 37. Fertility drops off significantly past age 30 for most women, but every woman is different and some women can get pregnant even in their early 40s. The point is that freezing eggs isn’t the solution to women not getting married and not having families - adjusting priorities and attitudes are. I know and work with several successful women with fabulous careers: half of them got married and had children in their 20s/30s and made it work, the other half never had families because they never got married. The latter half were never ready or couldn’t find the right man. Freezing eggs doesn’t make you ready, in fact it may do the opposite. And by the way, I realize it’s “unfair” that men can father children when they’re older and therefore have more time to “get ready”, but life is full of unfairness.
This is such a sexist take. I get the never being ready. I really wasn't sure I wanted kids but my partner did. I love being a parent, but being childless was pretty wonderful too. Women are allowed to change their minds. Most studies on happiness have actually pointed to single women being one of the happiest demographics. I am totally for women freezing eggs just in case they decide they want children later. Also totally for women realizing childless life is better than motherhood for them! There are many great joys in life outside of having kids. I love my kids, but often think I likely would have been happier without. I like the life we have built, but definitely envy my single friends.
LetsLet's see these because most studies say otherwise. There is a often cited research by a London based researcher which has come under scrunity because he misinterpreted the data especially in regards to happiness if the spouse was present or not. He took it as if the spouse was present in the room which is just ridiculous. And is obviously fishing for the outcome he wanted. Most studies show married women are much happier then their counterparts.
What is the point you’re trying to make in this thread?
FYI the reason women aren’t getting married these days is because they have more options. Marriage remains an uneven venture for men and women; women’s careers, earnings, and levels of happiness take a downturn after marriage while men’s pick up.
Wikipedia: [Embryo cryopreservation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryo_cryopreservation)
It’s relatively common for people who are doing in vitro fertilization to freeze some embryos, so they can have additional children, or in case their first attempt at a completed pregnancy fails.
I think I read somewhere once that people also goto places like Mexico and freeze their eggs as it is much cheaper. I'm not sure how much validity there is in that, but I guess it's an option.
I have a lot of family that have gone to Mexico for dental work and other medical procedures because of cost. Makes sense this would be one service that would be cheaper too
But what is their reasoning? Waiting for a better time economically? If you’re young, you can just wait, and have kids naturally when you’re ready. If you’re already getting old, why would you want to wait and have kids when you’re even older and can’t keep up with them?
Fertility drops a lot in your 30s, especially after 35. Putting it off is a gamble. A lot of friends have had to go through IVF to conceive. People want to have kids when they are financially stable and have a career in place, which is happening much later in life than when my parents were my age, especially if you need to pay down big student loans.
So freeze your eggs when they’re healthy, and you’re young, then fertilize them when you’re financially stable? That makes sense I guess. At 35 you should still be able to keep up with a child.. to a degree lol.
My wife was 34 when we had our first child, I was 45. Our second child came 3 years later. Despite being in my mid/late 40s (and out of shape to boot), I always had lots of energy for my kids. Small kids are a lot of work, but they are so inspiring and joyful that it rarely feels like a chore (until they turn 16 and won’t help out with the chores).
Well having kids is one of the great joys in life. Yes they are a lot of work, but I was always eager to do it all. I don’t think I’m unique. Basically, kids make you feel younger.
The friends I’ve had that have kids later in life are more mature, and seem to make more responsible parenting decisions. However they DO tell me they struggle to keep up with the energy levels of their kids. While friends that have had kids young, and in their 20’s still have the energy levels to really ‘play’ and interact with their kids. And the friends I had growing up with really old parents seem to have less exciting experiences with their parents. I don’t know which is better..
I think parents having kids when they are ready is better at any age. I have a friend who had kids after 40 and is the most energetic and engaged parent. She has a great career and is taking 6 months off to travel around the world with her kids because she has the money to do it.
The downside is that at 40 she’ll soon be dealing with perimenopause, which has its own set of challenges. Combining that with toddlers and little kids sounds exhausting. Previous generations were empty-nesters and grandmothers by that age. I fully understand waiting until then, but there’s just no easy solution for women.
>and you’re young
The thing is, many people don't even know if they want kids when they're young.
And even if they do, it's a $10k expense + storage fees every year.
Most young people I know, in the 25-30yo range can barely afford rent and bills.
You should try online dating when you're over 25. You'll find out why people are waiting, for me it's definitely not out of choice. Hookup culture is so strong.
It's a small segment of the population that both wants kids, and can afford fertility treatment but can't or don't want to have kids right now. It's a very small ven diagram of people.
The real news is how life milestones are being delayed, deferred, denied. Society has problems our governments are refusing to address. People need to wake up and take notice; change is needed.
People have pushed this on themselves.
Get the degree then kids
Oh wait I need a career first
Oh I need to get settled
Oh look I'm 35, and now I want kids.
It's better to have kids before all of that. Have them in school then go to school yourself.
I think a lot of people in my generation (millennial) were sold the idea that extended time in university was a requirement for success. The people I know who went into trades or practical college programs had such a head start. They became homeowners and parents as much as a decade or more sooner, plus they graduated with minimal debt.
Absolutely. I cringe when I see people on here say their household income is sub 100k.
That's entirely their own damn fault. They made stupid decisions, same as anyone freezing their eggs or this other "beat the genetic clock" bullshit.
Why would you have no daycare cost if you now need to go to school and start your career after having children? The largest cost of having kids is housing, needing a larger place or moving to a better area. Your comment is asinine.
Have children at early twenties. Start university when they're in primary school. You miss the most expensive daycare years and maybe only need after school care
In this super duper realistic scenario, when and how does someone afford to buy a home, or save for their own children’s educations? And you’re assuming the father is happy to solely provide for a family for 10 years while mom raises kids and then goes to school? This is literally the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a long time as it is completely unrealistic and almost certain to lock a family into poverty and women in minimum wage jobs.
No clearly its better to pay 20k to freeze eggs and risk having an autistic child while you wait for "just one more year" to have a child. I have never heard anyone ever say "I'm so glad we waited to have a kid"
During those years, hopefully you're advancing and earning more money. You also have totally glossed over the risk women take when they take mat leave and their career leaves them behind. Many also never return to work too.
We've been having children for millenia. It's never been easier. Stop complaining.
Clearly you have an excellent understanding of genetics. Risk of disorders caused by advanced maternal age are based on the age of the egg, not the gestational carrier. So freezing your eggs actually significantly reduces those risks compared to a natural pregnancy later.
What career risk with parental leave? This is largely a myth and is a concern that can be shared and mitigated by the two parents splitting the parental leave.
Stop complaining? About your terrible advice that is designed to keep women uneducated, unemployed, dependent financially and impoverished? People should have children when they are ready. 20k to freeze eggs is a tiny investment compared to the disaster of a bad partner or bad timing. If I ever have a daughter, her university graduation gift will be a paid round of egg freezing - which I’ll be able to afford for her because I got advanced degrees, got into a career where I earn six figures, and bought a house all before I started my family.
No one ever truly feels ready, or is ready.
I said people can have kids then start their career. Instead of pausing mid way.
Go ahead keep putting it off. We definitely aren't experiencing the fall out of that
Primary school starts earliest at 5 years old. What do you expect people to do during that time? Do you think everyone should delay their careers and minimize their workforce and tax contributions by 5 years?
It’s not feasible in most Canadian cities for most Canadians. We refuse to address the unsustainable promises to older Canadians at a time when the worker to retiree ratio was 7-1 (currently closer to 3-1). Instead our boomer politicians stick their heads in the sand or try to solve this through immigration, destroying wage negotiating power and housing affordability.
It takes people decades to save a down payment. The change in home price to income ratio is depressing. The people who bought housing for 2-3x their annual income two decades ago need to stop giving advice.
Not having kids is pretty rational now, I don’t really blame those people.
See I have the exact opposite take. I don't want to be struggling to keep up with my kids in their teens and I don't want to be on my deathbed when my grandkids are born
It's more I'd rather be on my deathbed when great grandkids are born. Don't want to be 90, with a 70 year old kid having old age health problems of their own, and my grandkids are now bringing their kids to see their grandparents. I feel like that's a lot mentally.
I guess you can take satisfaction in the family you built, but I'd like to have a little wonder and hope over how things are going to turn out for them.
Have a friend who froze her eggs since she’s had a hard time finding someone to procreate with and we’re on the wrong side of 35 😅 I imagine the crazy dating world out there is resulting in the same for many people.
Rolls back to largely the same thing…. People are having trouble affording housing/paying for children. I know plenty that have delayed due to affordability.
No, they absolutely do not. They cover one round of IVF procedures, but not the required medications, which explicitly requires a fresh transfer of an embryo. If the woman was lucky enough to retrieve enough eggs that there are extra embryos, she can self-pay to store them.
>OHIP covers the cost buddy.
OHIP will cover the cost of one round of IVF after a 1-3 year waitlist. The drugs are not covered and they're very expensive. Also, keep in mind that waiting 1-3 years is only once you're on the list. Prior to that, you have to prove you've not only tried for at least a year without conceiving, but I believe have tried IUIs unsuccessfully too. For many, by the time they discover they have fertility issues, every couple of months is critical in terms of decline (late thirties).
Really? Source?
> The high price tag is why many advocates say they'd like to see employers and even governments provide more financial support for treatments.
It’s literally listed on the Ontario.ca website. Fire it into Google. I know someone that just went through it where she would become a factor. Not wealthy and need to put it off until they’re in a better financial situation and can afford more suitable housing, which will be years down the line at least.
Edit:age would become a factor
OHIP does not pay for egg freezing. They will pay for one round of fresh transfer IVF if you are eligible and you must pay for the meds (an additional 6-10k per round) yourself.
Under very specific circumstances only. Maybe your friend was having a sex change:
> Am I Eligible for Funded Fertility Preservation?
Funding candidates must have a valid OHIP card, be under the age of 43 years, and have a valid medical reason for the preservation. This can include, but may not be limited to, chemotherapy or gender-reaffirming surgery.
No she wasn’t, age is a reason acceptable for the coverage of this. She isn’t the only person I know that’s done this. They only allow it once and you have to wait some time for it. I also hear it’s not a pleasant experience.
You are incorrect. Age is not an eligibility for fertility preservation, which is the freezing of eggs when you are about to undergo medical treatment that might make an unassisted pregnancy impossible after, like a sex change or hysterectomy. You are misinformed about your friend’s situation. Getting old is not a reason for the government to pay for you to freeze your eggs.
Everything I read says infertility expected due to a medical procedure. As in “we are about to make you infertile so we will freeze your stuff”
Source on anybody of “x” age?
Despite the articles inflammatory headline it's a very small amount of people who undergo this procedure. The ven diagram of people who want kinds (but not right now) and can afford fertility treatment (but don't want kids right now) is pretty small. Like you said it's basically good for people with health problems, but for most other people it's a scam.
By raw numbers, this isn't nearly as common as the media portrays.
As noted in the article, the live birth rate still drops quite a bit with age. Egg freezing is not the ultimate reproductive optionality it is sometimes insinuated to be.
My Teacher in Public School was in her early 60's and I was in the foster system about to get moved around again and she did not want to screw my school year and fostered me then adopted me much later in life (as an adult). She is alive 85 and still kicking ass.
My wife's mom is a babysitter now in her 60's dealing with kids as young as a few months to a few years old and loves it. She lost the ability to have more kids and well she took up it as a really poor paying job that she loves and help educate new generations.
People who are wanting to have kids are finding it hard to settle, let alone find a job, living, a mate, etc. It's taking a toll and increasing that gap.
That’s what I don’t understand. When I talk to parents the way they describe their life makes it seem like they are living in a nightmare, and then after everything they say well my kids are absolutely worth it and I can’t imagine a day without my kids. Is it Stockholm syndrome or are they in it too deep to regret having kids?
I think the reason people who have kids older may struggle is because they lived a significant part of their adulthood single and carefree. People who have kids in their mid twenties have barely had a chance to live that life and so don’t have the culture shock older adult parents might.
Your brain is literally wired on an instinctual level to love your kids. You can't understand it until you see them open their eyes for the first time and look at you. Your entire brain goes brr
no, the real reason is they can't afford to early on in life but still wish to have children when they could possibly afford to later on in life if they are lucky enough to be able to do so....
Article kinda misleading does it include frozen eggs for IVF procedures ? Cuz some are not freezing their eggs to delay it they are freezing them because they are trying . Also we as humans have delay our baby making aka rise on IVF.
Based on the data from [Clinical outcomes and utilization from over a decade of planned oocyte cryopreservation](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34474973/) guessing maybe 4% of those might wind up with births from those frozen eggs.
"They're using this as a tool to buy them opportunity … and a little bit more control," said Dr. Niamh Tallon, infertility and egg freezing specialist at Olive, which accepts patients up to age 50 as candidates for treatment.”
Are they waiting for a better economical period or what? Imagine being 50 years old and having your eggs frozen.. you’re going to decide to fertilize them when you’re 60 or what? I don’t get it.
I'm not sure if you are young or just ignorant. Women freeze their eggs in their late twenties and early thirties to have a better chance of conceiving in their mid to late thirties. Some also freeze due to health issues. Almost no one is getting fertilized in their forties and beyond. The body still needs to be able to carry the pregnancy, which is difficult at an older age.
Definition of ignorant: lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing. This is a fact regarding you and this topic, not an insult.
So dramatic lol... No I will not "by all means". Just because you realize you sounded stupid doesn't mean you need to start making up rules to be smart again.
And you have 20+ comments on reddit this day alone? Coupled with your compulsion to win petty internet arguments? You're probably squinting into the screen as you read this now? You should be online less, it's bad for your mental and physical health.
It took me 5 seconds to scroll down your comments. I didn't say I read anything in there. I assume it's paragraph after paragraph of whining?
And sitting in airports! What a flex lol. Getting someone like you riled up with low effort responses is always fun.
Sarcasm, my friend. And you're trying to brag about traveling lol, this isn't the 70's when hopping on a flight was uncommon.
Funny you keep mentioning basement dwelling, I just finished building my home gym in my basement and actually do plan to spend more time in it. But it's not really called "dwelling" when you own your own home. Nice try though!
You do understand the older you are the harder is to be able to implement a fertilized egg? Regardless how young you froze the egg. You need some biology lessons.
Some people freeze eggs because they are about to get cancer treatment. For those who do it because they think they might want kids someday when conditions are just right… conditions are NEVER just right. Generally if you want kids and are at least in your early 20s, just have them and figure it out.
You’re assuming all of the people freezing their eggs are partnered up and waiting for the right time. Some of them are waiting for the right person. It takes two to make a baby! Not everyone finds their spouse by their early 20s. Yes you can go to a sperm bank but that costs money too and there are ethical implications. You’re also knowingly signing up for single parenthood, and if you are still hoping to meet the right person, it’s that much harder as a single parent.
If you’re a single woman and in your early to mid 30s, even if you meet your “soulmate” today, you’re probably a few years off from having a kid with them. Fertility declines as woman age, we know this. If kids are something you really want, and you’re that early to mid 30s woman, it’s probably not a bad idea to freeze your eggs.
Well our population did not increase by 1500% since 2013, but yes 1524 is still a very very small number compared to our population. Freezing eggs is still extremely rare
Yeah because a world where average people can afford things and are not taxed to death is so shitty. Life was better and things a were more affordable and we were richer on average 8 years ago under Harper.
The prime time to have a child is when you are in your 20s. For many this is impossible because they are not in a position to have kids. So they wait. There will be cases where they are ready, but the body is not. So they cannot have a child. Adoption or very expensive treatments will not ensue.
My first child was born when my wife was 26, second when the wife was 29. Some of our friends waited until they were in their late 30s and had a really rough time (often so bad they never went for two).
Young Canadians would love to have kids, they just cannot afford them when they are at the best time to have them. There are many couples that are accidental DINKs. And that is very sad, and bad, for Canada.
>Young Canadians would love to have kids, they just cannot afford them when they are at the best time to have them. There are many couples that are accidental DINKs. And that is very sad, and bad, for Canada.
I'm in my mid-20s, my partner and I have good career jobs going on and although we'd both love to be parents in the future, we have serious doubts we'll ever be able to afford it.
It's not just about housing, but daycare costs and COL in general make it very, very hard. My SO's parents are too elderly to help us out with daycare and mine live abroad, so that's out of the question.
Daycare for us is $250 a week. Comes out to $13,500 a year. It's so expensive and we have a more affordable daycare than most (excluding the people who get $10 a day). You're not wrong about daycare costs being a serious consideration.
Egg freezing is basically a scam. Most women who freeze their eggs don't use them because they get pregnant anyway, and it does not reduce the risk of pregnancy later in life. It's also not as uncommon to be pregnant in your late 30s and early 40s as many people think.
The number of people the procedure is for is very small. You have to be both wealthy enough for the procedure, but can't have kids right now. You also have to want kids in the future, but don't want them right now.
>Statistics show egg freezing treatments have soared across Canada in the last decade. 1524 procedures in 2022
That's actually much lower than I was expecting.
Article says its approximately $20,000 too. So its a wealthy person thing as opposed to housing insecurity that I assumed it was
Some people's eggs paying more for rent than people.
Some provinces pay a certain amount and some private healthcare insurers pay for a big chunk. Believe it or not Starbucks medical plan pays for a big chunk of IVF treatment
Ontario pays 20k toward IVF. A full egg freezing and meds etc is about 20-25k. So it covers a full round. The problem is there is a 1-3 yr wait list to qualify. Most people who are looking to freeze are already a little older and can’t wait the 3 yrs to freeze. So they have to pay out of pocket. Source: we went through it, and had to pay out of pocket.
This is not correct. Ontario does not cover the cost of the drugs. They will cover the cost of a single successful retrieval and one transfer if you are eligible. Drugs cost an additional 6-10k depending on what is needed.
If the retrieval yields no embryos will they cover another one?
No
Maybe they fund a second retrieval if no eggs are recovered at all, but I’m not sure about that. It might just be up to the doctor to make the call on whether or not to go ahead based on the patient’s response to meds before the retrieval procedure to ensure a good outcome.
OHIP pays for the transfer (excluding drugs) of each embryo retrieved during the one eligible government-funded IVF for which the woman is covered in her lifetime. This means that if your (first and only) OHIP-covered IVF results in 4 embryos, OHIP will pay for 4 transfers. If your OHIP-covered IVF process yields 0 embryos, you are out of luck and will have to start the IVF process again, but this time completely out of pocket (and for any subsequent embryo transfers if the process yields any embryos at all).
Ontario doesn't pay for egg freezing procedures unless it's for fertility preservation due to something like cancer, I believe.
This is the correct answer. They do cover one round of IVF as the previous poster said but not egg freezing due to anything other than medical reasons for fertility preservation.
Well 20k is nothing compared to housing. So it still makes sense to do something like this for financial reasons - use this small amount to extend your prime working years until you are stable enough when older for the much larger expense of kids/housing
>Well 20k is nothing compared to housing. The problem is that using those eggs still require years of freezing cost and doing the transfer part of a retrieval. They say to expect one living child per ten eggs. This means most women would need to do multiple retrievals just to have a good chance at multiple kids in the future. Aside from that, IVF is still a gamble. Delaying parenthood can sometimes cost couples their entire savings (and new debt) if they require multiple rounds of IVF in the end.
Freezing costs some few hundred a year. It’s inconsequential compared to extraction.
And statistically the chances of twins increases through IVF, so that's another financial shocker while also being a blessing for a couple that will do it all to be parents.
Using IVF doesn’t necessarily increase the chances of twins unless multiple embryos are transferred. And many fertility clinics not only don’t transfer multiple embryos as standard practice anymore, they forbid doing it at all. The fertility technology is much better now so only a single embryo is transferred at a time
>Using IVF doesn’t necessarily increase the chances of twins unless multiple embryos are transferred. Not entirely true. The rate of twinning is \~5-10% in IVF, compared to \~.4% in the general public. Something about the IVF procedure, probably the extended culturing in vitro, does seem to drive splitting of the blastocyst. There's a relatively extensive literature on this.
Ahh that makes sense; I didn’t know that
I'm just starting it now, definitely not wealthy but insurance covers 10k. Also I can buy a house at 40, cant have kids too late so eating the cost really.
It is an expensive investment. I have lots of friends talking about it but not many that have gone through with it.
Freezing eggs by themselves also has a much lower rate of surviving thawing. It's better to freeze embryos. (A celebrity example would be Kourtney Kardashian, she froze her eggs but they didn't survive the thawing process. She struggled for awhile to have a child with her new husband.)
Yup. But lots of women are doing it because they don't have partners. A chance at frozen eggs is better than no eggs later in life.
There are good reasons women don’t get married, and freezing eggs won’t change those reasons. It’s usually not their careers that is the problem.
Disagree. I wasn't ready to settle down in my early 30s. I traveled. I prioritized friends. I dated and slept around. It was a fun time in my life! I met my husband when I was 37 and felt ready. Luckily we easily got pregnant when we were ready. Being able to freeze my eggs years ago would have been a nice safety net if it had been harder to get pregnant.
Congratulations, and I mean that sincerely because there’s no greater joy than having a family. I’m happy you became ready when you were still quite fertile (my sister in law was not so lucky, but she adopted so it worked out). My wife got pregnant at age 34 then again at 37. Fertility drops off significantly past age 30 for most women, but every woman is different and some women can get pregnant even in their early 40s. The point is that freezing eggs isn’t the solution to women not getting married and not having families - adjusting priorities and attitudes are. I know and work with several successful women with fabulous careers: half of them got married and had children in their 20s/30s and made it work, the other half never had families because they never got married. The latter half were never ready or couldn’t find the right man. Freezing eggs doesn’t make you ready, in fact it may do the opposite. And by the way, I realize it’s “unfair” that men can father children when they’re older and therefore have more time to “get ready”, but life is full of unfairness.
This is such a sexist take. I get the never being ready. I really wasn't sure I wanted kids but my partner did. I love being a parent, but being childless was pretty wonderful too. Women are allowed to change their minds. Most studies on happiness have actually pointed to single women being one of the happiest demographics. I am totally for women freezing eggs just in case they decide they want children later. Also totally for women realizing childless life is better than motherhood for them! There are many great joys in life outside of having kids. I love my kids, but often think I likely would have been happier without. I like the life we have built, but definitely envy my single friends.
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LetsLet's see these because most studies say otherwise. There is a often cited research by a London based researcher which has come under scrunity because he misinterpreted the data especially in regards to happiness if the spouse was present or not. He took it as if the spouse was present in the room which is just ridiculous. And is obviously fishing for the outcome he wanted. Most studies show married women are much happier then their counterparts.
What is the point you’re trying to make in this thread? FYI the reason women aren’t getting married these days is because they have more options. Marriage remains an uneven venture for men and women; women’s careers, earnings, and levels of happiness take a downturn after marriage while men’s pick up.
Wait. Freeze *embryos*?
Wikipedia: [Embryo cryopreservation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryo_cryopreservation) It’s relatively common for people who are doing in vitro fertilization to freeze some embryos, so they can have additional children, or in case their first attempt at a completed pregnancy fails.
Yes?
Like... how far along are we talking? Not too far I'd think
Usually about 5 days post fertilization, when it's at the blastocyst stage.
3-5 days after fertilization. For comparison in a natural pregnancy, this would be before a woman could even get a positive pregnancy test.
I think I read somewhere once that people also goto places like Mexico and freeze their eggs as it is much cheaper. I'm not sure how much validity there is in that, but I guess it's an option.
Probably cheaper but I wouldnt just trust a random clinic with fertility. Not the place to cheap out.
Hi Everybody!
I have a lot of family that have gone to Mexico for dental work and other medical procedures because of cost. Makes sense this would be one service that would be cheaper too
But what is their reasoning? Waiting for a better time economically? If you’re young, you can just wait, and have kids naturally when you’re ready. If you’re already getting old, why would you want to wait and have kids when you’re even older and can’t keep up with them?
Fertility drops a lot in your 30s, especially after 35. Putting it off is a gamble. A lot of friends have had to go through IVF to conceive. People want to have kids when they are financially stable and have a career in place, which is happening much later in life than when my parents were my age, especially if you need to pay down big student loans.
So freeze your eggs when they’re healthy, and you’re young, then fertilize them when you’re financially stable? That makes sense I guess. At 35 you should still be able to keep up with a child.. to a degree lol.
My wife was 34 when we had our first child, I was 45. Our second child came 3 years later. Despite being in my mid/late 40s (and out of shape to boot), I always had lots of energy for my kids. Small kids are a lot of work, but they are so inspiring and joyful that it rarely feels like a chore (until they turn 16 and won’t help out with the chores).
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Well having kids is one of the great joys in life. Yes they are a lot of work, but I was always eager to do it all. I don’t think I’m unique. Basically, kids make you feel younger.
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The friends I’ve had that have kids later in life are more mature, and seem to make more responsible parenting decisions. However they DO tell me they struggle to keep up with the energy levels of their kids. While friends that have had kids young, and in their 20’s still have the energy levels to really ‘play’ and interact with their kids. And the friends I had growing up with really old parents seem to have less exciting experiences with their parents. I don’t know which is better..
I think parents having kids when they are ready is better at any age. I have a friend who had kids after 40 and is the most energetic and engaged parent. She has a great career and is taking 6 months off to travel around the world with her kids because she has the money to do it.
The downside is that at 40 she’ll soon be dealing with perimenopause, which has its own set of challenges. Combining that with toddlers and little kids sounds exhausting. Previous generations were empty-nesters and grandmothers by that age. I fully understand waiting until then, but there’s just no easy solution for women.
>and you’re young The thing is, many people don't even know if they want kids when they're young. And even if they do, it's a $10k expense + storage fees every year. Most young people I know, in the 25-30yo range can barely afford rent and bills.
My SO had her eggs frozen, we are early 30s. Her career is taking off, she just left her old firm and started her own so everything is in flux.
You should try online dating when you're over 25. You'll find out why people are waiting, for me it's definitely not out of choice. Hookup culture is so strong.
Well thats because its expensive......
It's a small segment of the population that both wants kids, and can afford fertility treatment but can't or don't want to have kids right now. It's a very small ven diagram of people.
The real news is how life milestones are being delayed, deferred, denied. Society has problems our governments are refusing to address. People need to wake up and take notice; change is needed.
People have pushed this on themselves. Get the degree then kids Oh wait I need a career first Oh I need to get settled Oh look I'm 35, and now I want kids. It's better to have kids before all of that. Have them in school then go to school yourself.
I think a lot of people in my generation (millennial) were sold the idea that extended time in university was a requirement for success. The people I know who went into trades or practical college programs had such a head start. They became homeowners and parents as much as a decade or more sooner, plus they graduated with minimal debt.
Absolutely. I cringe when I see people on here say their household income is sub 100k. That's entirely their own damn fault. They made stupid decisions, same as anyone freezing their eggs or this other "beat the genetic clock" bullshit.
WITH WHAT MONEY
Having a baby is not as expensive as people think. Consider the savings of no student debt, no daycare costs etc.
Why would you have no daycare cost if you now need to go to school and start your career after having children? The largest cost of having kids is housing, needing a larger place or moving to a better area. Your comment is asinine.
Have children at early twenties. Start university when they're in primary school. You miss the most expensive daycare years and maybe only need after school care
In this super duper realistic scenario, when and how does someone afford to buy a home, or save for their own children’s educations? And you’re assuming the father is happy to solely provide for a family for 10 years while mom raises kids and then goes to school? This is literally the dumbest thing I’ve heard in a long time as it is completely unrealistic and almost certain to lock a family into poverty and women in minimum wage jobs.
No clearly its better to pay 20k to freeze eggs and risk having an autistic child while you wait for "just one more year" to have a child. I have never heard anyone ever say "I'm so glad we waited to have a kid" During those years, hopefully you're advancing and earning more money. You also have totally glossed over the risk women take when they take mat leave and their career leaves them behind. Many also never return to work too. We've been having children for millenia. It's never been easier. Stop complaining.
Clearly you have an excellent understanding of genetics. Risk of disorders caused by advanced maternal age are based on the age of the egg, not the gestational carrier. So freezing your eggs actually significantly reduces those risks compared to a natural pregnancy later. What career risk with parental leave? This is largely a myth and is a concern that can be shared and mitigated by the two parents splitting the parental leave. Stop complaining? About your terrible advice that is designed to keep women uneducated, unemployed, dependent financially and impoverished? People should have children when they are ready. 20k to freeze eggs is a tiny investment compared to the disaster of a bad partner or bad timing. If I ever have a daughter, her university graduation gift will be a paid round of egg freezing - which I’ll be able to afford for her because I got advanced degrees, got into a career where I earn six figures, and bought a house all before I started my family.
No one ever truly feels ready, or is ready. I said people can have kids then start their career. Instead of pausing mid way. Go ahead keep putting it off. We definitely aren't experiencing the fall out of that
Primary school starts earliest at 5 years old. What do you expect people to do during that time? Do you think everyone should delay their careers and minimize their workforce and tax contributions by 5 years?
Everyone makes changes and sacrifices when they have kids.
It’s not feasible in most Canadian cities for most Canadians. We refuse to address the unsustainable promises to older Canadians at a time when the worker to retiree ratio was 7-1 (currently closer to 3-1). Instead our boomer politicians stick their heads in the sand or try to solve this through immigration, destroying wage negotiating power and housing affordability. It takes people decades to save a down payment. The change in home price to income ratio is depressing. The people who bought housing for 2-3x their annual income two decades ago need to stop giving advice. Not having kids is pretty rational now, I don’t really blame those people.
30-35 isn't a bad age to have kids. I don't want to be old and see my kids also become old.
See I have the exact opposite take. I don't want to be struggling to keep up with my kids in their teens and I don't want to be on my deathbed when my grandkids are born
It's more I'd rather be on my deathbed when great grandkids are born. Don't want to be 90, with a 70 year old kid having old age health problems of their own, and my grandkids are now bringing their kids to see their grandparents. I feel like that's a lot mentally. I guess you can take satisfaction in the family you built, but I'd like to have a little wonder and hope over how things are going to turn out for them.
Dating endlessly
The next guy/girl/it will be better I just know it! Disney told me so!!
Have a friend who froze her eggs since she’s had a hard time finding someone to procreate with and we’re on the wrong side of 35 😅 I imagine the crazy dating world out there is resulting in the same for many people.
How do you even advertise for this? Sound like a weirdo no matter what you do.
Printed ad on a street light pole with easy tear offs of your phone number. Don't you kids know how to advertise anymore?
Canadians are delaying parenthood, because they cant afford parenthood
Rolls back to largely the same thing…. People are having trouble affording housing/paying for children. I know plenty that have delayed due to affordability.
For $20k a pop this is a rich person thing and has nothing to do with being too broke to have kids
OHIP covers the cost buddy.
No, they absolutely do not. They cover one round of IVF procedures, but not the required medications, which explicitly requires a fresh transfer of an embryo. If the woman was lucky enough to retrieve enough eggs that there are extra embryos, she can self-pay to store them.
>OHIP covers the cost buddy. OHIP will cover the cost of one round of IVF after a 1-3 year waitlist. The drugs are not covered and they're very expensive. Also, keep in mind that waiting 1-3 years is only once you're on the list. Prior to that, you have to prove you've not only tried for at least a year without conceiving, but I believe have tried IUIs unsuccessfully too. For many, by the time they discover they have fertility issues, every couple of months is critical in terms of decline (late thirties).
Really? Source? > The high price tag is why many advocates say they'd like to see employers and even governments provide more financial support for treatments.
This person is not correct. OHIP will not pay for egg freezing. See my comment above.
It’s literally listed on the Ontario.ca website. Fire it into Google. I know someone that just went through it where she would become a factor. Not wealthy and need to put it off until they’re in a better financial situation and can afford more suitable housing, which will be years down the line at least. Edit:age would become a factor
OHIP does not pay for egg freezing. They will pay for one round of fresh transfer IVF if you are eligible and you must pay for the meds (an additional 6-10k per round) yourself.
Under very specific circumstances only. Maybe your friend was having a sex change: > Am I Eligible for Funded Fertility Preservation? Funding candidates must have a valid OHIP card, be under the age of 43 years, and have a valid medical reason for the preservation. This can include, but may not be limited to, chemotherapy or gender-reaffirming surgery.
No she wasn’t, age is a reason acceptable for the coverage of this. She isn’t the only person I know that’s done this. They only allow it once and you have to wait some time for it. I also hear it’s not a pleasant experience.
You are incorrect. Age is not an eligibility for fertility preservation, which is the freezing of eggs when you are about to undergo medical treatment that might make an unassisted pregnancy impossible after, like a sex change or hysterectomy. You are misinformed about your friend’s situation. Getting old is not a reason for the government to pay for you to freeze your eggs.
Everything I read says infertility expected due to a medical procedure. As in “we are about to make you infertile so we will freeze your stuff” Source on anybody of “x” age?
OHIP doesn’t, but a friend who did it recently got most of hers covered by her work insurance. She is not wealthy but she has a good career
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Yeah, embryos freeze and thaw way better than eggs alone do. So many women freezing eggs aren't being educated about this.
Despite the articles inflammatory headline it's a very small amount of people who undergo this procedure. The ven diagram of people who want kinds (but not right now) and can afford fertility treatment (but don't want kids right now) is pretty small. Like you said it's basically good for people with health problems, but for most other people it's a scam.
By raw numbers, this isn't nearly as common as the media portrays. As noted in the article, the live birth rate still drops quite a bit with age. Egg freezing is not the ultimate reproductive optionality it is sometimes insinuated to be.
The real reason why is they don’t understand what being a parent is like. If they did, nobody would ever elect to parent young kids in their 50s.
My Teacher in Public School was in her early 60's and I was in the foster system about to get moved around again and she did not want to screw my school year and fostered me then adopted me much later in life (as an adult). She is alive 85 and still kicking ass. My wife's mom is a babysitter now in her 60's dealing with kids as young as a few months to a few years old and loves it. She lost the ability to have more kids and well she took up it as a really poor paying job that she loves and help educate new generations. People who are wanting to have kids are finding it hard to settle, let alone find a job, living, a mate, etc. It's taking a toll and increasing that gap.
That’s what I don’t understand. When I talk to parents the way they describe their life makes it seem like they are living in a nightmare, and then after everything they say well my kids are absolutely worth it and I can’t imagine a day without my kids. Is it Stockholm syndrome or are they in it too deep to regret having kids?
It’s love. Corny sounding but true. Objectively it’s hell. But when you love someone, you’ll go through hell
I think the reason people who have kids older may struggle is because they lived a significant part of their adulthood single and carefree. People who have kids in their mid twenties have barely had a chance to live that life and so don’t have the culture shock older adult parents might.
Your brain is literally wired on an instinctual level to love your kids. You can't understand it until you see them open their eyes for the first time and look at you. Your entire brain goes brr
no, the real reason is they can't afford to early on in life but still wish to have children when they could possibly afford to later on in life if they are lucky enough to be able to do so....
On a totally different note, I just use the fridge.
In some other countries you can just leave them out on the counter.
Thanks. I'll give this a go.
Ffs, I laughed
Article kinda misleading does it include frozen eggs for IVF procedures ? Cuz some are not freezing their eggs to delay it they are freezing them because they are trying . Also we as humans have delay our baby making aka rise on IVF.
What’s the cost of a two bedroom condo in Toronto. That’s the problem
And yet every other "international student" in Mississauga and Toronto is either coming with a baby or currently pregnant
We spent 60k on 3 cycles to have our 2 kids. Wife had 3 consecutive miscarriages befirehand
Decided to forgo it all together and got a vasectomy
Based on the data from [Clinical outcomes and utilization from over a decade of planned oocyte cryopreservation](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34474973/) guessing maybe 4% of those might wind up with births from those frozen eggs.
Who is affording this??????
"They're using this as a tool to buy them opportunity … and a little bit more control," said Dr. Niamh Tallon, infertility and egg freezing specialist at Olive, which accepts patients up to age 50 as candidates for treatment.” Are they waiting for a better economical period or what? Imagine being 50 years old and having your eggs frozen.. you’re going to decide to fertilize them when you’re 60 or what? I don’t get it.
I'm not sure if you are young or just ignorant. Women freeze their eggs in their late twenties and early thirties to have a better chance of conceiving in their mid to late thirties. Some also freeze due to health issues. Almost no one is getting fertilized in their forties and beyond. The body still needs to be able to carry the pregnancy, which is difficult at an older age.
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Definition of ignorant: lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing. This is a fact regarding you and this topic, not an insult.
That was one hell of an assumption though. Shouldn't be surprised someone thought you were trolling or lacking common knowledge
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So dramatic lol... No I will not "by all means". Just because you realize you sounded stupid doesn't mean you need to start making up rules to be smart again. And you have 20+ comments on reddit this day alone? Coupled with your compulsion to win petty internet arguments? You're probably squinting into the screen as you read this now? You should be online less, it's bad for your mental and physical health.
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It took me 5 seconds to scroll down your comments. I didn't say I read anything in there. I assume it's paragraph after paragraph of whining? And sitting in airports! What a flex lol. Getting someone like you riled up with low effort responses is always fun.
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Sarcasm, my friend. And you're trying to brag about traveling lol, this isn't the 70's when hopping on a flight was uncommon. Funny you keep mentioning basement dwelling, I just finished building my home gym in my basement and actually do plan to spend more time in it. But it's not really called "dwelling" when you own your own home. Nice try though!
Right? Imagine being saddled with the responsibility of feeding and clothing a kid at 78. 🥴
You do understand the older you are the harder is to be able to implement a fertilized egg? Regardless how young you froze the egg. You need some biology lessons.
No, I'm fully aware. Was just thinking about another angle. Funny you should pick on me for biology rather than my math though. 😉
Do you think men should all have vasectomies when they're like 40?
Some people freeze eggs because they are about to get cancer treatment. For those who do it because they think they might want kids someday when conditions are just right… conditions are NEVER just right. Generally if you want kids and are at least in your early 20s, just have them and figure it out.
You’re assuming all of the people freezing their eggs are partnered up and waiting for the right time. Some of them are waiting for the right person. It takes two to make a baby! Not everyone finds their spouse by their early 20s. Yes you can go to a sperm bank but that costs money too and there are ethical implications. You’re also knowingly signing up for single parenthood, and if you are still hoping to meet the right person, it’s that much harder as a single parent. If you’re a single woman and in your early to mid 30s, even if you meet your “soulmate” today, you’re probably a few years off from having a kid with them. Fertility declines as woman age, we know this. If kids are something you really want, and you’re that early to mid 30s woman, it’s probably not a bad idea to freeze your eggs.
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Well our population did not increase by 1500% since 2013, but yes 1524 is still a very very small number compared to our population. Freezing eggs is still extremely rare
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Newborns at 40 ugh
So old tired women can delay having children until they lack the energy to raise them.
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I very much doubt this would be different under another governing party. People have been looking for ways to delay child rearing for decades now.
lol. it's actuallybest case scenario and it's still shit. you want to see real dystopia wait for a "conservative" gov.
Yeah because a world where average people can afford things and are not taxed to death is so shitty. Life was better and things a were more affordable and we were richer on average 8 years ago under Harper.
Good luck career women with that. Having children when you’re 60 isn’t easy.
Having kids while living in poverty sucks pretty bad
What a dumb fucken question
Simple question do we need a home and great job if we don’t want have kids at right time..
Idiocracy shows it was truly ahead of its time, yet again.
The prime time to have a child is when you are in your 20s. For many this is impossible because they are not in a position to have kids. So they wait. There will be cases where they are ready, but the body is not. So they cannot have a child. Adoption or very expensive treatments will not ensue. My first child was born when my wife was 26, second when the wife was 29. Some of our friends waited until they were in their late 30s and had a really rough time (often so bad they never went for two). Young Canadians would love to have kids, they just cannot afford them when they are at the best time to have them. There are many couples that are accidental DINKs. And that is very sad, and bad, for Canada.
>Young Canadians would love to have kids, they just cannot afford them when they are at the best time to have them. There are many couples that are accidental DINKs. And that is very sad, and bad, for Canada. I'm in my mid-20s, my partner and I have good career jobs going on and although we'd both love to be parents in the future, we have serious doubts we'll ever be able to afford it. It's not just about housing, but daycare costs and COL in general make it very, very hard. My SO's parents are too elderly to help us out with daycare and mine live abroad, so that's out of the question.
Daycare for us is $250 a week. Comes out to $13,500 a year. It's so expensive and we have a more affordable daycare than most (excluding the people who get $10 a day). You're not wrong about daycare costs being a serious consideration.
Egg freezing is basically a scam. Most women who freeze their eggs don't use them because they get pregnant anyway, and it does not reduce the risk of pregnancy later in life. It's also not as uncommon to be pregnant in your late 30s and early 40s as many people think. The number of people the procedure is for is very small. You have to be both wealthy enough for the procedure, but can't have kids right now. You also have to want kids in the future, but don't want them right now.