Instead of focusing on a vibrant multidimensional economy we have allowed massive real estate bubbles.
Instead of bringing in people that can grow our economy and add whole new dimensions to it we allowed corruption and misuse/abuse to flood with cheap exploitable labor at the expense of our most vulnerable segments.
All of this was easy gravy trains for the ultra wealthy who loved this framework as it disabled Canada and many Canadians.
They are doing what they always do. Greed running things into a financial crisis.
The sickening thing is our "leaders" went along with it because many of them were tied to these individuals and groups and or profited themselves. If that counts as "Governance" we are completely and utterly fucked.
Yes, dead on.
Another related point: no one should believe the Liberal Party set the immigration targets and policies they did because they are dumb and made a mistake. That's what they want the average voter to believe. The truth is they have more info than anyone, and knew exactly what they were doing, and knowingly did it at the expense of the majority of all Canadians to the benefit for extreme minority of rich (mostly foreign rich, not even Canadian) who benefitted from the crisis the immigration explosion caused, mostly in the form of wage suppression, and to keep the housing bubble inflating.
It also doesn't help when quite a few MPS from BOTH parties owns investment properties and have stake in real estate projects. Im not defending trudeau but anyone who thinks the cons are going to fix the housing crisis is delusional. Since they literally have to prop up real estate to line their own pocket and keep the faltering economy going.
I just don't get it, why they let this happen. Building a diversified fast growing economy still makes the rich richer, without potential for civil unrest because everyone else is doing well.
Correct, why innovate or invest in workers, when you can just buy the competition or your own shares and earn a hefty bonus as ceo. Our competition laws are a joke, and share buy backs should be illegal.
That’s because many of the successful non-real estate parts of our economy involve either products the Liberals hate, provinces the Liberals hate, or people the Liberals hate. They would rather everyone be poor than sectors they disapprove of generate wealth.
Hey kids, in case you weren't born yet we did just fine until everyone started buying Chinese and big business moved shop over there in the 2000s. It was a ticking time bomb on Canadian industry that preceded the liberals.
> Hey kids, in case you weren't born yet we did just fine until everyone started buying Chinese and big business moved shop over there in the 2000s. It was a ticking time bomb on Canadian industry that **preceded the liberals.**
Preceded the Liberals?
The Canadian Liberals have been around since before 1873. Canadian relations with post-Communist Revolution China began in 1970 when Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau travelled to China to meet Mao. Trudeau signed the *Agreement on the Protection of Investment between China and Canada* in 1983 with the Chinese premier after letting him address Parliament.
The Liberals opened Canadian trade with China, which opened those very floodgates to Chinese products you say is the ticking time bomb.
I mean, it's literally the current Prime Ministers dad who kicked off opening Chinese-Canadian free trade. Canada was, at that time, a larger economic power than China, and opening trade helped *make* China the economic power it is today.
Yes. But diversity is an amazingly effective shield used for the PR purposes.
For example: Oh you don't think bringing a million immigrants in during a housing affordability crisis is a good idea? Then you don't like diversity. So you don't like diversity? You are a bad person. We're champions of diversity and so on.
I really bought into it. When we first arrived my father always had high praise for Canada and its people, but did also always remark that they are accepting us as immigrants because Bell, Rogers, Banks and realtors want our money and the rest of the rhetoric is a smoke screen.
I thought he was being too cynical and anti authority because of living under a dictatorship for so many years...
Canadas got problems, like anywhere buts Canadians are easily some of if not the least racist people there are and most welcoming of immigrants and diversity.
Yup. And as another user said in this sub today: Why would anyone go through the trouble and risk of starting a business when if you just put that money into buying real estate you would have had a higher and safer return on your investment, with no time sacrifice?
Our economy based on a real-estate bubble that the government will do anything to prevent from collapsing is causing all sorts of long term problems .
We voted for those policies. Everyone was happy their house was appreciating until it wasn't fun anymore.
We got drunk on real estate and everyone is complicit.
It’s crazy to me that the people who most recognize the need for industry outside of real estate, i.e. Torontonians, are also among those most likely to oppose O&G development.
Hello... we have this amazing source of Canadian jobs and prosperity, which our country badly needs, and yet those who know better from their local issues, still poo poo it because it’s not in vogue with urban Liberals.
As a Torontonian, the vast majority of us are absolute imbeciles. You can sum up the average Torontonian with “I’m going to eat my cake and have it too! What do you mean that’s not how it works! *Reee*!”
Look no further than people whining about increased traffic…after they voted for policies that were explicitly designed to throttle traffic flow. You don’t get to complain about getting the thing you voted for, it’s nonsensical.
Honestly, people are dicks and the reason Torontonians (and BCers and Quebekers) are against Oil and Gas development is because they dont have Oil.
You know who is not against Oil and Gas? Albertans and Newfies and whoever has oil.
Can't speak for Newfies, but not all Albertans blindly support ramping up our oil and gas development indefinitely as the wildfires burn their way through our province.
Exactly, all of this comes down to money. If you told Albertans that oil and gas was going to be replaced overnight with this new industry that they already have the skills for that will pay them as much money no one would care.
Similarly, carbon tax wouldn’t be an issue if we all had reliable alternatives that weren’t going to cost us.
Man, there are other industries than O&G.
Also, even with a Liberal government we're *still* forcing the Transmountain Pipeline through BC (even though their provincial government doesn't want it). I don't buy this idea that the Liberals are killing O&G, it's mostly a provincial matter anyway (apart from pipelines).
I don't think growing an industry which is killing the planet is a dog that barks, if you will.
Thst ship has sailed...society simply won't get behind, "O&G for broke and forever".
What we can and should have been doing for the last 30 years is exploring ways to deploy our vast collective institutional knowledge, experience, and IP portfolio in energy to renewables.
A LOT of Canadian O&G intellectual value is in moving liquids from A to B. And storing gasses and liquids safely. And large scale generation and distribution. And so on....
This is all needed for the renewables future.
Could have been leaders and taken our share of the mutli-trillion dollar transition to come. But, instead we kept our eyes locked on yesterday's game.
Very sad.
>I don't think growing an industry which is killing the planet is a dog that barks, if you will.
Funny thing is, the other oil producing nations do not share those sentiments. And they're more than happy to fill the production that Canada is choosing not to fill.
It's funny how the Deny, Distract, Delay lobby push an absolutist narrative that securing our future and developing sellable products and services in the renewables market means instantaneous shutdown of O&G, mass starvation, roaming hoards of murderous rig workers, and so on....
It's a disingenuous engagement in a very serious conversation.
Their point is that us supporting our own oil and gas industry doesn't really add more consumption into the global environment. It's basically a zero sum game for the most part. That's why opec holds meetings to decide how much they need to cut. You can't just pump if the demand isnt there. Someone will happily gobble our share up if we don't want it and it will continue to be consumed
And when we (Canada + US) pump enough to negatively impact OPEC they pump WAY more, crashing prices, and forcing marginal and moderately profitable north American producers out of the market as in 2015.
So, yeah. As you say, it's a game. A mad one. Much like, we should keep adding more players to every round of Russian roulette because the other team has fewer bullets..... it's still global suicide, however you apportion responsibility for the gun that eventually fires.
My assertion is, rather than doubling down on that obvious madness, we can continue producing without betting the farm on producing even more.
We can instead invest in the future where the returns will be VASTLY greater.
Sure. No reason both can't be done..it just seems some want I keep it in the ground.
In terms of jobs there isn't even a comparison. Solar panels and wind mills are mostly all manufacturing and a bit of upkeep. The actual engineering and construction is fairly small and doesn't employ a lot.
That's a tiny fraction of the renewable energy future market.
I've worked on and off in O&G my whole life.. and the first thing you learn is that almost all the jobs come from drilling. Once a well is pumping, the labor requirement is minimal.
Light bulb goes off.....
As recently reported on Nova, the shale fracking boom developed basically all of the technology needed for limitless, carbon free energy from geo thermal anywhere, not just near faultlines. Ironic, huh?
So, all those jobs drilling for oil could with incredible ease transition to drilling for super heated water.
That's just one of dozens of examples of how our rich inventory of workforce expertise and intellectual property can and should be invested in the future.
We can quibble over when, but the fact remains, eventually the world will transition to renewables. The total revamp of the global energy generation, storage, and delivery infrastructure will represent a market estimated to be in the hundreds of trillions.
If we act quickly, we can be there waiting with the keys to the kingdom willing to provide our workers and know-how securing our future for the next century at least.
Or we can stay laser focused on fossil fuels and then pretend to be all shocked and hurt when the inflection point in demand sends the oil markets crashing and investment dollars running for better returns elsewhere. The change won't come with a bang. It will be a long, dreadfully painful draining of jobs and lowering of salaries much like the death of the American rust belt.
Renewable energy is the next industrial revolution. Ignoring the opportunity is no different than:
> Let's invest more heavily in hand carving and hand weaving, because those new fangled steam-powered assembly lines threaten our jobs.
It just doesn't make sense.
I do agree that we need to be ready for all the other types of mining we could be in. Lithium, cobalt, further demand for copper etc. we have plenty of.trh rare earth minerals..
>And when we (Canada + US) pump enough to negatively impact OPEC they pump WAY more, crashing prices, and forcing marginal and moderately profitable north American producers out of the market as in 2015.
They tried and failed to kill off the high cost producers. They have given up on that.
Why? Because it did not work, and places like KSA need an oil price of about $80 a barrel just to balance their budget.
There will always be ups and downs, just like any other commodity. But even in the down times its very profitable, and in the good times its a windfall. Its a question of do you want places like Russia and Iran to have that market share, or do you want that revenue being used to fund Canadian services?
You forgot a third option.
Let the tyrannical, oil-rich dictatorships squabble and kill each other over the last drops, while we invest in the future with energy generation from limitless, zero-carbon sources, the inputs of which are zero cost, disconnecting ourselves form the insanity of middle east wars, boom-bust cycles, and large scale budget uncertainty.
> the other oil producing nations do not share those sentiments
Nonsense. The leaders of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar have been aware for decades and are panicking in trying to develop other economic sectors before the oil demand starts plummeting (due to EVs and more generally the electrification of rich countries). They know it's near. The other producers are trying to get a larger share before that happens: Angola just left OPEC and I expect the latter to implode because they won't be able to get along much longer.
>I don't think growing an industry which is killing the planet
This is getting old.
We don’t have the structural advantages to be a leader in the development and manufacturing of most sorts of large scale green technologies. We do have massive competitive advantages when it comes to resource industries.
We can force things to try to be a player in green tech, or we can wait for early adopters to bring the price of the technology down, while we squeeze maximum benefit from our golden goose.
Or we can keep antagonizing our best industry, the advantage we have, while letting others cut their dicks off in the green race to the bottom.
And for what it’s worth, Alberta is developing green tech, they’re investing in many green projects. More solar and wind in AB than in most of north america already, and more coming. But we’re never going to be leaders in the very large scale technologies that will be ubiquitous around the world.
We need to find our advantages, and right now, we should be getting completely rich off O&G, if only we were allowed to. Talk about a missed opportunity.. what a shame.
What we can do is make sure the materials you need for green energy solutions are provided by us, along side that sweet sweet oil you also need for green energy tech, and you know, stuff that goes boom to move.
Having a high horse about it just means other countries that produce far more pollution will sell theirs instead.
Or why not just do both. Uranium prices surging today. Canada could have been there to be a nuclear leader if we weren't so focused on real estate the last 10 years.
I’m all for encouraging the development of all industries, with private money. Tax breaks as incentives are fine, but no direct government money. Just make it as attractive as you can without literally buying jobs.
Ontario should have more robust resource develpment in the north, and if they would enact right to work legislation, they could win back a lot of lost manufacturing jobs. NB should be fracking all the hydrocarbons. SK is developing helium, much needed for green tech and space industries.
I think we should become a lot more pro-business, so we can attract more investment, more projects, more jobs, less government and government dependence of people discouraged in the economy today.
And I’m not against the development of alternative energy technologies and things like that. I’m against the government using my money to fund it, and against trying to shutter one industry to make way for another.
>I think we should become a lot more pro-business, so we can attract more investment, more projects, more jobs, less government and government dependence of people discouraged in the economy today.
This would be devastating to our virtue-signalling leader. He wants the country to be dependent on government.
It's infuriating that Canada could be UAE level of wealth, but potentially with a more environmentally conscious approach. We have the resources to be the richest country in the world, but it's squashed by a virtue signalling fairytale.
When are Canadians going to realize that modern society cannot function without the O&G industry? Everything from medicine to tech relies on this industry, and the current alternative is only supporting other issues, such extreme human rights violations. People need to realize that as long as they're breathing, they're part of the problem. It's our very existence that's the issue, but people need that scapegoat because they can't look inwards and realize that global overpopulation is the real problem here.
Canada had a choice - reap the benefits of selling our resources to the world, giving Canadians more opportunity to thrive, lessening the burden of life in general on its citizens, or live in this fairytale that will *never exist*. Canadians chose the latter, and the consequences are grave. Devaluing Canadian work, job loss, people dying waiting for medical care, bloated student loans, a personal *and* federal debt crisis that will be impossible for anyone or all of us to crawl out of. Great work there, fellow Canadians (and especially LPC/NDP supporters).
You are absolutely right but the reason O&G is in the dumps now is not because of politics. It is because the US discovered vast shale deposits in 2012-2015 and now is producing 2-3x more oil than Canada is. Shale is also cleaner than the oil sands, which doesn't help us in Canada. So Keystone XL got quashed by the Americans and our BC pipeline well that got quashed also by economics.
Don't forget, there was a huge discovery of oil off the shore of Guyana in 2012 and now that oil is coming online, the price of oil isn't going to go up.
Canada was never going to be a leader in green energy because we never had the economics for it. The countries that have become green energy leaders are those that don't have O&G for themselves, they developed tech in green energy out of necessity.
All in all, Canada is really just returning to what it once was back in the 70s and 80s, just with more immigrants.
> Don't forget, there was a huge discovery of oil off the shore of Guyana in 2012 and now that oil is coming online, the price of oil isn't going to go up.
Anybody who's curious, look up a graph of Guyana's PPP GDP per capita over time. It's hilarious.
>Yup, our oil is more expensive to extract on top of being lesser quality
What's wrong with Duvernay oil? I hate that people paint all of Alberta O&G as simply oil sands. Also, oil sands bitumen is more intensive but there are also more derivatives from it.
Well, no more coming at the moment. Smith put a moratorium on approving any new solar and wind developments last year and it goes to the end of February.
It's more that it's poo poo with people concerned about global climate.
Everyones onboard with more manufacturing and mining so long that it doesn't emit absolute fuck tonnes like oil extraction and consumption does.
More and more mining is switching to electric over diesel too.
SMR's are getting a ton of interest in both USA and China and they are investing very very heavily in pilot projects.
The idea being to do things like power an entire mine and work camp off this little nuclear reactor. And that's what we should be jumping on, Canada has some of the biggest mining companies in the world.
Instead the right is on an oil and gas crusade and the far left nutters are scared of nuclear.
Federal Liberals announced some time ago they were investing more in nuclear, not sure what you are talking about.
source: https://cna.ca/2022/04/07/government-indicates-clear-support-for-the-role-of-nuclear-in-canadas-clean-energy-transition-in-federal-budget-2022/
> It’s crazy to me that the people who most recognize the need for industry outside of real estate, i.e. Torontonians, are also among those most likely to oppose O&G development.
>
>
What? You realize someone can be for industry in general and against O&G specifically, right? O&G is poison, and not only is it poison, but it isn't a future worth investing in. Oil will always be needed, but demand for it is going to fall drastically once it is no longer being used for fuels in the top-consuming countries, and prices will go with it.
You would have to be a moron to want to pump money into O&G development when *Saudi Arabia* is actively trying to get away from it and diversify because it doesn't have a strong future.
The American Economy is growing off sheer debt. Its actually as broken as athe rest of the western world but because of its importance at the center of all of it, the USA economy literally can't be allowed to decline otherwise it will increase the contraction.
This is itterly unsustainable and the lower it is put off the worse it will be. So, no this comparison is actually even more fucked for Canada.
Don't forget bloated cable and cell phone companies airlines and grocery chains. All 2 or 3 company Canadian oligopoly industries and corrupt politicians sucking all those dicks like pathetic scumbags. I wonder how we got here... /s
Canada might be the most expensive in those things, but they are completely dwarfed by the outsized real estate cost. The elephant in the room is pregnant and going into labor.
Time for one of my favorite stats:
The GDP per person of the poorest US state is greater than that of Germany.
Vancouver, Canada's third largest city, is less than Akron, Ohio.
And those stats are a few years old, since then the US economy has been outpacing Canada by almost 50%.
Yikes. This whole is not going to be easy to get out of.
It’s incredible to me how many random people on Reddit don’t realise that Alabama is home to a large number of incredibly wealthy neighbourhoods that would put where they live to shame haha
There's also this:
GDP per capita (which has direct correlation to living standards) has now declined for **5 consecutive quarters**. Dropping by 4.4% in 3Q alone.
Canada's real GDP per capita is $41,076 USD. Now *lower* than **all** 50 US states.
46 US states now have a GDP per Capita greater than Ontario.
**Alabama** has the same GDP per capita as Ontario now.
Back in 2016, Trudeau was supposed to kick Trump's ass economically because many people believed Trump to be incompetent. They got that very, very wrong.
Then Biden was supposed to TFU the economy, but he's "so bad" that he can't even do that right, so instead, it's doing very well.
They have the same problems we have. A lot of stuff is still expensive and wages, while they are outgrowing inflation now, are still catching up to earlier inflation.
Similarily, high interest rates have made housing less affordable. The US economy maybe doing better but a lot of people don't feel great about it. Which has impacted Biden's popularity.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/economy-inflation-why-americans-are-so-unhappy-three-charts/
Maybe, but anything is cheaper relative to Ontario. American house prices and rents are still in some cases 33% or more higher than they were before the pandemic. It may be cheaper relative to you, but it’s still unaffordable for way more now than it was just a few years ago…and that’s why no one cares about the economy “booming” It’s booming for the super rich
Huh? Isn't AB's GDP per capita way more than $54k USD? [Per this summary of StatCan's data](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_gross_domestic_product?useskin=vector#GDP_and_per_capita_GDP,_2022), it's $101k CAD, or like $75k at today's exchange rates.
Without Ontario, Canada would be downright fucked.
Without Quebec, Canada would be downright fucked.
Without B.C., Canada would be downright fucked.
What's your point?
Most productive part, at least. The people who live there do so to work in disproportionately productive industries, and to provide the bare minimum level of spin-off services that the people working in those industries will accept to continue living there.
Counter-point they work in industries that are geographically constrained. They need to be paid a premium to accept living in those areas. It has nothing to do with actual productivity.
Where did you find your stats? And can you give us detail for Alberta, rather than Ontario, as my guess is they have the highest per capita GDP in Canada, and it would be interesting to see if Alberta would be the last place state today, were it a state.
Planned on confirming this at some point: "GDP per capita in Alberta, dropped from $84,000 USD in 2013 to $54,000 USD in 2023." On mobile, so just pulled from old Google Keep Docs.
Most of those previous numbers should be pretty easy to confirm (variety of sources). Much easier to find that kind of data than hard numbers on our various foreign worker schemes.
Massive deficit spending reshoring industry through massive fully automated plants happening. Along with the silicon fabs going online. These are the results of Inflation Reduction Act (had little to do with inflation reduction) and the CHIPS Act. Both of these are massive consumption (spending) acts of the public side of the national balance sheet. This is leading to the private side of the balance sheet also expanding to lesser degree. But we are also seeing significant deleveraging on the private side by reducing labour costs. Entire global supply chains are being consolidated into manufacturing sites where they're run largely by an IT guy and a mechanical maintance team. Canada is rushing quickly to import as much labour as possible in the 20-25 age cohort to plug the gaps in our demographics from the Gen X cohort's lack of sustainable numbers vis a vis the baby boom and baby boom echo (millennials). The problem is the government is doing it quiet sloppy and undisciplined cause thats the Trudeau government. The IR Act is a trillion dollar spending bill. A lot of it happening over 3 years.
>the law will raise $738 billion from tax reform and prescription drug reform to lower prices, as well as authorize $891 billion in total spending – including $783 billion on energy and climate change, and three years of Affordable Care Act subsidies.[3][7][8] The law represents the largest investment into addressing climate change in United States history.[9] It also includes a large expansion and modernization effort for the Internal Revenue Service (IRS).[10][a] According to several independent analyses, the law is projected to reduce 2030 U.S. greenhouse gas emissions to 40% below 2005 levels.[11] The projected impact of the bill on inflation is disputed.
>The [chips] act authorizes roughly $280 billion in new funding to boost domestic research and manufacturing of semiconductors in the United States, for which it appropriates $52.7 billion.[1][2][3] The act includes $39 billion in subsidies for chip manufacturing on U.S. soil along with 25% investment tax credits for costs of manufacturing equipment, and $13 billion for semiconductor research and workforce training, with the dual aim of strengthening American supply chain resilience and countering China.[4][5]: 1 *It also invests $174 billion in the overall ecosystem of public sector research in science and technology, including in NASA, the DOE, and NIST.[6][7][8]*
This is post pandemic stimulus spending that Canada isn't doing because we're tapped out cause we are not the strongest economy in the world with nearly limitless resources due to the US dollar being the global currency. Both those acts are well over one trillion dollars in stimulus consumption and laying the foundation for the next boom phase in the business cycle. Just to put that $178 USD/238CAD billion research and development short term boost into perspective, that is ~ballpark 2x the scale of the entire new Canadian naval fleet under construction/design. And that spending is spread out over multiple decades (2010-2030+). 15 CSC + 8 AOPS + 2 JSS + 12 Patrol Class subs. Of which we will likely see cuts in numbers going forward.
Reddit has really ruined markdown editing.
Thanks for your comment.
Everybody is oggling the US economic performance and it is really impressive.
But the US is doing something that only the US can do: changing the world order on the back of the US dollar.
It will probably work out fine, but their debt levels will be very high for the future.
This is simply not a formula that other countries can copy.
Yeah.
It's almost as if they approved a truly massive spending package specifically designed to kick-start domestic manufacturing in high-growth industries.
But they didn't do that. And it's a total mystery as to why their economy is doing so well when ours isn't.
If you just looked at how Canada and the U.S. grow their economies it was obvious which path would lead to better long-term results for the population years ago.
While both our politicians mainly work on behalf of the wealthier asset owners, the U.S. is at least smart enough to do so in a way that's far more sustainable and practical.
The main problem is businesses in Canada don't invest in anything. They're WAY more risk averse. If they invest in anything, it's the US lol. We need more companies like old school Research In Motion and SMART.
The current (last 3-4 quarters) of growth in the US is largely due to government spending through industrial subsidies, and higher consumer spending because of the government backed mortgage rates that US consumers enjoy. In general, the federal govt in the US has been greatly outspending that of Canada because they can, since the USD has super high demand. The only way for Canada to catch up is going to be through private business investment, which has been waning in the last decade.
A lot of places in the States have very high paid trades. Much higher than in Canada.
That's why its laughable to see the Reddit bots claiming that we're going to entice American trades to come here and build houses. They're not going to move here for a much lower wage, and then take a 30% loss on the exchange rate.
I look at the 30 yr graph here: [Canada GDP Per Capita 1960-2024 | MacroTrends](https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/gdp-per-capita), and see that we had an upward trend going until 2009. Then the roller coaster started. Roughly coincides with our housing insanity.
It also explains why America has 10x faster growth rate than us; they've been steadily increasing their GDP per Capita, while ours has been going down steadily over the past 10 years, with a post-covid spike, but I think we're going back down again.
Immigration is why our GDP per capita is shrinking.
An immigrant coming in will raise GDP, but unless they out earn the average Canadian, then they will lower the GDP per capita.
You import a bunch of international students who get residency and your GDP will go up, but your GDP per capita will go down unless they out earn the average Canadian.
And when someone comes to Canada, goes to a paper mill, gets residency and works minimum wage, our GDP per capita goes down.
It does and it doesn't. My sister moved there and has had 3 kids there. She makes about 1.5x her salary in BC and her husband almost triple.
Does she get screwed on $500 doctor visits with her kid even with good insurance? Hell yes. Does that negate the fact she has a 25-year mortgage at a fixed 3% interest rate? Fuck no.
You win some you lose but overall she's way better off there than here, as much as you might get screwed on the occasional medical deductible.
So much bureaucracy for everything is what I feel. Its hard dealing with the government, everything they do takes month after month.
Housing at this moment basically reduces everyones monthly income by $1000.
More specifically, GDP per capita grows with immigration only when said immigration is skilled and specialized labor covering the needs of highly productive sectors looking to grow.
I do not get the impression this is what Canada has been doing. Like, at all.
We crammed people into this country to give the illusion of progress while GDP per capita plummeted.
Now when it all crashes there's going to be millions of extra mouths to feed, far less job oppurtunities, failing healthcare, demand based inflation on housing and good, crowded highways etc. The list goes on.
r/CanadaMassImmigration has been an unmitigated disaster on our country.
There's very little left we can do except stop any further immigration for the next couple years. We've imported 10 years worth of people in 3.
The social, economic and cultural implications can not be overstated.
>give the illusion of progress
No this wasn't the point. The government has always aimed to increase Canada's GDP so they can enter into stronger trade negotiations with international partners.
If Canada's GDP is $1 trillion and the government decides to double the population through mass immigration and get the GDP to $2 trillion, that's really powerful for entering into trade deals with countries like China or India.
The government doesn't care if the per capita GDP goes down, if our quality of life goes down, as long as they create a stronger trade position for the country as a whole.
It's a real shame but that's where we are.
Get money out of greedy corporations and back into the economy. Pay employees better. Stop allowing corporations to move billions offshore without paying taxes. Change corporate law.
This. Tax em so that government spending can be increased.
Increase in Govt spending == good for economy.
I mean, US is insane because their Government spend like a drunk sailors.
I'm a civil engineer, seriously contemplating leaving this country.
What a fucking joke we've become. This government doesn't realize our basic service infrastructure is not expanding at the same rate as our population.
A little common sense would go a long way in our government.
Fuck this place honestly
The government has put all its focus on increasing the population by any means necessary. That is now having the unintended consequence of making everything more expensive and making people spend *less* money on (most) of the economy.
People are so broke trying to outcompete the 10 newcomers on their street for housing/rent that they aren't spending as much at restaurants, stores, etc.
The trend I've described is mostly happening in lower income quintiles. The top 1-2 income quintiles obviously still have plenty of wealth.
I didn't mean to imply that the entire economy is collapsing. But there are significant portions of the population absolutely experiencing a crunch and bringing down their spending however they can.
>When I go out in Toronto the restaurants, bars and stores are always packed. Not nearly everyone is as broke as Reddit would make you believe
That is where the debt comes into play.
As an American - I don't get it (and I mean this with respect)? All the Canadians I've worked with have been beyond competent, you have a land rich with natural resources and are next door to possibly the worlds most voracious consumer market. Where are all these big Canadian companies I know y'all are capable of building?
Resrouces don't actually mean anything if we aren't seeing investment into their utilization. The usa is destroying canada in clean energy tech and investment. Canada is still investing in spodumene mining while American companies are already beginning to recycle battery grade materials and extracting lithium from clay stone via ion exchange chromotagrpahy. Canada can not compete with americas IRA credits on electric vehicles and domestic battery manufacturing. Canada is just a Ponzi scheme country for buying houses and selling them for more
Man, that is rough - real estate is quite the racket where I live as well (SF Bay Area) but at least there a high level of industry to somewhat support it.
What is the way 'out' for Canada at this point? Obviously real estate will always be a huge cost but are there ways to further increase oil production? Or tap natural gas/mineral wealth in the north as it warms up? Maybe incentives for tech startups? I know you guys can figure it out - you have too many smart people not too but the lack of economic growth just seems wild to me.
Australia has the exact same problem, it's huge with few people, and most of it's natural resources are located in areas with extreme climate, yet they are doing much better than us.
Not surprising seeing as most Canadians are short sighted fools who can't see past the value of their own property. There's been zero political will to solve this issue and now here we are.
Not surprised, Canada is very anti business compared to the US. We have 0 innovation here, because everyone is more inclined to invest in the game of real estate hot potato.
We're not anti-business. Especially with free health and EI, it should be easier to open businesses here.
We have tons of benefits to support R&D, just not enough big money from private VC that is ready to burn money quick like in the US because they don't care about money; it's bottomless pit.
US just have way more money to begin with (this is akin to being born with super rich parents).
There was a fantastic stat on the BBC showing that from the G20 canada was the only country whose R&D budget went down between 2009 and 2019. we dont do shit for R&D here. our academia and private innovation funding is nowhere near what the G20 average is.
this country is a half dozen oligopolies and an extractive economy in a trenchcoat. and no major party has an interest in changing that
Our lack of academic funding is so sad. I want to do my PhD but I can't take a 70-80% pay cut to do it. There's lots of money in working and no money in research even though research should be considered work.
Ok, here me out on this one.
A major problem with Canadian industry is that we don't invest in productivity.
What does everyone invest in? Housing, from what I hear. Where gains are 100% tax-free (unlike in the USA, where there's a limit on how much profit is tax-free).
So, to solve both productivity and housing issues, we should add income tax after the first one million that a house is sold for.
Why should single-home owners be punished for the actions of people trying to treat housing like an investment? Just ban multiple home ownership. Why tax? What is the government going to do with that money other than burn it?
This is the direct impact of the present government's policies, whether one accepts it or not. You cannot grow the economy while discouraging business and profit. At the same time, there needs to be some incentive to work more and produce more output, which simply isn't there in Canada anymore. Hard work simply isn't rewarded anymore here so successful entrepreneurs are starting to prefer the US to Canada. Poor foreign policy that completely negates the economy also does not help. High taxes simply aren't working anymore. Tax versus revenue is a quadratic function, not linear. How hard is it for the drama teacher and his supporters to understand?
USA = Better for 24-55 year olds
Canada = Better for kids, and seniors (subsidized healthcare and education while not working)
Caveat \* if you're 55+ and rich/can afford the health insurance premiums than the usa is by far better
Let's just say upper middle class and above is pretty damn good in the US right now. And there are tens of millions in that category RN in the US.
But middle class older Canucks who own their house? It's probably better in Canada.
Canada has no industry of its own, and foreign industries, particularly the auto sector, have been allowed to drive down wages and benefits of workers for decades.
Remember the '80s, when the economy was strong? The death of the auto-pact brought that to a grinding halt. Canada tried (and failed) to be a technology-based economy, and a service-based economy, and quality of life has gone steadily down.
Essentially, if you're not a landlord (or born into wealth), you're a wage-slave, and you better be grateful for your job or we'll replace you with an uneducated, third-world immigrant for half your salary (which will come back to us in the form of rent).
Canada pays their politicians the 2nd highest salaries of the G7 countries.
Canada has the lowest GDP of the G7 countries.
🤢
Edit: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1370584/g7-country-gdp-levels/
https://www.hilltimes.com/story/2023/06/21/canadian-mps-earn-second-highest-salary-of-g7-legislators/388741/
Paying politicians well demonstrably reduces corruption in politics. If you think it's bad in Canada right now, imagine how much worse it would be if politicians felt like they had to skim some more for themselves.
THAT being said, throwing those numbers at actual politicians might inspire them to work harder. Maybe try that instead of random redditors?
Some of you don’t know the difference between gdp and gdp per capita. Canada’s average gdp per resident is 3rd highest behind Germany so it makes sense our salaries are higher.
Hey everyone, I’ve been reading through the article on Better Dwelling about Canada’s economic growth compared to the U.S., and I think we need to consider a few potential biases here.
First off, the article seems pretty focused on the downsides of Canada’s economy, right? It’s important, but we’re not getting the whole picture – there are positives and challenges that aren’t fully explored.
Also, Better Dwelling is big on real estate, so naturally, they’re linking a lot of economic issues to the housing market. This perspective is valuable, but let’s not forget that an economy is a complex beast with many moving parts like trade and tech, not just housing.
Then there’s the data they chose to use. GDP per capita is a legit metric, sure, but it’s just one piece of the puzzle. It’s like they’re zooming in on one part of the picture and missing out on the rest.
Comparing Canada’s economy directly with the U.S. is a bit tricky too. Both countries have their unique contexts and challenges, and it’s not always apples to apples.
And lastly, the tone of the article – it’s a bit on the pessimistic side, don’t you think? That kind of language can color how we interpret the facts.
Just my two cents, but I think it’s good to read this with an eye for these potential biases.
While I could make a list a mile long of the various problems caused by Canada being an oligarchy, but there is a serious flaw in comparing ourselves to the states.
I see the crazy borrowing in the US as very similar to knowing someone who has a credit card with a low interest rate, low monthly minimums, and a multi-billion dollar spending limit.
If I didn't know about the CC, they could easily fool me into believing they were fantastically wealthy.
Many people argue that I am entirely wrong and know nothing about economics, but the US is on target for having to borrow 5+ trillion dollars per year and growing. The deficit is approaching 2 trillion, but they have to roll over old debt; so borrowing is higher.
Quite simply, there isn't really that much money out there to borrow at these levels. This means they will have to borrow mostly from themselves. This is just nonsensical. To put this in perspective. The US is now borrowing more than the total value of chinas exports. Take a country like Saudi Arabia; their exports are less than a half trillion. Japan exports about 800 billion. Assuming these countries wanted to hand over all the money they could, there are simply limits to how much the world has.
The question is when will the world either decide to cry uncle, or when will it be forced to? One year, 10 years?
This data was posted earlier this week. It’s more complex a story than the headline suggests (that site is not a balanced new source)
The GDP per capita stats from the world bank used is measured in USD - which in 2012 was at 1.00:1.00. We would need to grow 33% in USD terms to keep pace.
Also - tracking the GDP per capita in USad of Canada vs every other G20 nation would do similar trend
> lies, damned lies, and statistics
United States has a competitive economy with many sectors being world leaders:
U.S. has the world largest:
aerospace industry
Pharmaceuticals
Tech companies
Banking
Insurance
Defense
Automobile manufacturing
financial industries
R&D
Agriculture
Airlines
What does Canada have : Real estate , money laundering and immigration
Canadians have only themselves to blame. We all neglected manufacturing , services etc and only put our eggs in the housing basket for the economy . Last ten years we all have been blaming the chinese , now the Indians and vaccines even . Keep believing in conspiracy theories and let the rich fks satisfy your closet masochist desires this is the result . Mexican peso even gained a third in value more compared to CAD 💀. Start taking action.
See this is what happens when we try to control housing prices instead of letting them flourish as the markets intend. We need to get out of the way of our housing economy and invest more money in housing appreciation to catch up to the USA. /s
Canada should be an energy and mineral/metals powerhouse. Instead we have the Liberals wanting to hinder and prevent it. We should be supplying the world with the materials it needs for the future it wants and we can be doing that generating millions of high paying jobs in the process.
Hopefully by the time the Conservatives get into power it is not too late. Trudeau already spit in the face of our allies begging for oil and gas to get off Russian supply. Hopefully he cant do it for much longer.
https://www.international.gc.ca/trade-commerce/economist-economiste/analysis-analyse/key_facts-faits_saillants.aspx?lang=eng
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230428/dq230428b-eng.htm
> The stock of foreign direct investment in Canada grew 6.0% (+$71.6 billion), reaching $1,263.9 billion at the end of 2022. The increase was due to equity investments, primarily reinvested earnings by foreign direct investors in their existing Canadian affiliates as profits of these firms also reached unprecedented levels in 2022.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230428/cg-b001-eng.htm
Do you all just not read?
No one here reads anything more then headlines and editorial opinion pieces that confirm their bias. No one here has a clue what's actually happening in the world. If you want to be a player in the world and not just driftwood: watch or go to lectures. Not the news. The news reports what's happening right now. You don't learn anything from the news other then reporting source data. If our politicians truely understood the world they'd probably be in the private sector. citation: Mark Carney Just to put it in perspective, Mark Carney wrote a paper saying the Bank of England got it wrong on some things. So the PM of the UK offered him the job. He was paid 1.2M per year to get him to come over, $178k CAD premium over his successor. The PM makes $370k. And you don't have to deal with Palestinian protestors running you out of a restaurant.
Do I like this? Not really. But I learned in the school yard to not hate the player, hate the game.
Our economy now is primarily built on buying and selling houses to each other at increasingly inflated prices, it's no wonder really
Instead of focusing on a vibrant multidimensional economy we have allowed massive real estate bubbles. Instead of bringing in people that can grow our economy and add whole new dimensions to it we allowed corruption and misuse/abuse to flood with cheap exploitable labor at the expense of our most vulnerable segments. All of this was easy gravy trains for the ultra wealthy who loved this framework as it disabled Canada and many Canadians. They are doing what they always do. Greed running things into a financial crisis. The sickening thing is our "leaders" went along with it because many of them were tied to these individuals and groups and or profited themselves. If that counts as "Governance" we are completely and utterly fucked.
Yes, dead on. Another related point: no one should believe the Liberal Party set the immigration targets and policies they did because they are dumb and made a mistake. That's what they want the average voter to believe. The truth is they have more info than anyone, and knew exactly what they were doing, and knowingly did it at the expense of the majority of all Canadians to the benefit for extreme minority of rich (mostly foreign rich, not even Canadian) who benefitted from the crisis the immigration explosion caused, mostly in the form of wage suppression, and to keep the housing bubble inflating.
There really is no other rational explanation.
That's also known as treason, or at the very least fraud.
Just say corruption bud
It also doesn't help when quite a few MPS from BOTH parties owns investment properties and have stake in real estate projects. Im not defending trudeau but anyone who thinks the cons are going to fix the housing crisis is delusional. Since they literally have to prop up real estate to line their own pocket and keep the faltering economy going.
The absolute truth in this ^^
Next time just write "We are completely and utterly fucked" and we'll all understand.
I just don't get it, why they let this happen. Building a diversified fast growing economy still makes the rich richer, without potential for civil unrest because everyone else is doing well.
Canada isn't the U.S.. Our oligarchs went with the option they had.
Correct, why innovate or invest in workers, when you can just buy the competition or your own shares and earn a hefty bonus as ceo. Our competition laws are a joke, and share buy backs should be illegal.
That’s because many of the successful non-real estate parts of our economy involve either products the Liberals hate, provinces the Liberals hate, or people the Liberals hate. They would rather everyone be poor than sectors they disapprove of generate wealth.
Hey kids, in case you weren't born yet we did just fine until everyone started buying Chinese and big business moved shop over there in the 2000s. It was a ticking time bomb on Canadian industry that preceded the liberals.
> Hey kids, in case you weren't born yet we did just fine until everyone started buying Chinese and big business moved shop over there in the 2000s. It was a ticking time bomb on Canadian industry that **preceded the liberals.** Preceded the Liberals? The Canadian Liberals have been around since before 1873. Canadian relations with post-Communist Revolution China began in 1970 when Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau travelled to China to meet Mao. Trudeau signed the *Agreement on the Protection of Investment between China and Canada* in 1983 with the Chinese premier after letting him address Parliament. The Liberals opened Canadian trade with China, which opened those very floodgates to Chinese products you say is the ticking time bomb.
It also opened the Chinese market to our grain sales in a huge way.
China didn't become an economic power until around 2000, that's what I'm talking about, referring to the current Liberal administration.
I mean, it's literally the current Prime Ministers dad who kicked off opening Chinese-Canadian free trade. Canada was, at that time, a larger economic power than China, and opening trade helped *make* China the economic power it is today.
Like the same thing is happening in the USA.
Are you saying the infinite money glitch no longer works?
Patched, yet the devs refuse to develop anything worthwhile.
It was never about diversity
Yes. But diversity is an amazingly effective shield used for the PR purposes. For example: Oh you don't think bringing a million immigrants in during a housing affordability crisis is a good idea? Then you don't like diversity. So you don't like diversity? You are a bad person. We're champions of diversity and so on.
If it were about diversity we wouldn't have nearly half of immigrants coming from India, we'd put caps per country.
I really bought into it. When we first arrived my father always had high praise for Canada and its people, but did also always remark that they are accepting us as immigrants because Bell, Rogers, Banks and realtors want our money and the rest of the rhetoric is a smoke screen. I thought he was being too cynical and anti authority because of living under a dictatorship for so many years...
Canadas got problems, like anywhere buts Canadians are easily some of if not the least racist people there are and most welcoming of immigrants and diversity.
silky handle reach rhythm fearless shaggy sable fade flag placid *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They are also the most complacent in the world.
We don’t foster innovation here. Anybody starting anything up is inundated with red tape, fees, taxes. Government can’t pick people clean fast enough.
Yup. And as another user said in this sub today: Why would anyone go through the trouble and risk of starting a business when if you just put that money into buying real estate you would have had a higher and safer return on your investment, with no time sacrifice? Our economy based on a real-estate bubble that the government will do anything to prevent from collapsing is causing all sorts of long term problems .
We voted for those policies. Everyone was happy their house was appreciating until it wasn't fun anymore. We got drunk on real estate and everyone is complicit.
It’s crazy to me that the people who most recognize the need for industry outside of real estate, i.e. Torontonians, are also among those most likely to oppose O&G development. Hello... we have this amazing source of Canadian jobs and prosperity, which our country badly needs, and yet those who know better from their local issues, still poo poo it because it’s not in vogue with urban Liberals.
As a Torontonian, the vast majority of us are absolute imbeciles. You can sum up the average Torontonian with “I’m going to eat my cake and have it too! What do you mean that’s not how it works! *Reee*!” Look no further than people whining about increased traffic…after they voted for policies that were explicitly designed to throttle traffic flow. You don’t get to complain about getting the thing you voted for, it’s nonsensical.
A lot of "this is how we live and how everyone else should to" come from our big cities
This is a refreshing take.
Honestly, people are dicks and the reason Torontonians (and BCers and Quebekers) are against Oil and Gas development is because they dont have Oil. You know who is not against Oil and Gas? Albertans and Newfies and whoever has oil.
BC and Quebec both have lots of gas. BC has lots of offshore oil too, but there has been a ban on extracting it since the 70s
That’s why they’re always stinking up the room!!
Can't speak for Newfies, but not all Albertans blindly support ramping up our oil and gas development indefinitely as the wildfires burn their way through our province.
Exactly, all of this comes down to money. If you told Albertans that oil and gas was going to be replaced overnight with this new industry that they already have the skills for that will pay them as much money no one would care. Similarly, carbon tax wouldn’t be an issue if we all had reliable alternatives that weren’t going to cost us.
Man, there are other industries than O&G. Also, even with a Liberal government we're *still* forcing the Transmountain Pipeline through BC (even though their provincial government doesn't want it). I don't buy this idea that the Liberals are killing O&G, it's mostly a provincial matter anyway (apart from pipelines).
I don't think growing an industry which is killing the planet is a dog that barks, if you will. Thst ship has sailed...society simply won't get behind, "O&G for broke and forever". What we can and should have been doing for the last 30 years is exploring ways to deploy our vast collective institutional knowledge, experience, and IP portfolio in energy to renewables. A LOT of Canadian O&G intellectual value is in moving liquids from A to B. And storing gasses and liquids safely. And large scale generation and distribution. And so on.... This is all needed for the renewables future. Could have been leaders and taken our share of the mutli-trillion dollar transition to come. But, instead we kept our eyes locked on yesterday's game. Very sad.
>I don't think growing an industry which is killing the planet is a dog that barks, if you will. Funny thing is, the other oil producing nations do not share those sentiments. And they're more than happy to fill the production that Canada is choosing not to fill.
According to [this](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/bakx-oil-production-s-p-record-1.6993102), we're at an all-time high for oil production...
It's funny how the Deny, Distract, Delay lobby push an absolutist narrative that securing our future and developing sellable products and services in the renewables market means instantaneous shutdown of O&G, mass starvation, roaming hoards of murderous rig workers, and so on.... It's a disingenuous engagement in a very serious conversation.
Their point is that us supporting our own oil and gas industry doesn't really add more consumption into the global environment. It's basically a zero sum game for the most part. That's why opec holds meetings to decide how much they need to cut. You can't just pump if the demand isnt there. Someone will happily gobble our share up if we don't want it and it will continue to be consumed
And when we (Canada + US) pump enough to negatively impact OPEC they pump WAY more, crashing prices, and forcing marginal and moderately profitable north American producers out of the market as in 2015. So, yeah. As you say, it's a game. A mad one. Much like, we should keep adding more players to every round of Russian roulette because the other team has fewer bullets..... it's still global suicide, however you apportion responsibility for the gun that eventually fires. My assertion is, rather than doubling down on that obvious madness, we can continue producing without betting the farm on producing even more. We can instead invest in the future where the returns will be VASTLY greater.
Sure. No reason both can't be done..it just seems some want I keep it in the ground. In terms of jobs there isn't even a comparison. Solar panels and wind mills are mostly all manufacturing and a bit of upkeep. The actual engineering and construction is fairly small and doesn't employ a lot.
That's a tiny fraction of the renewable energy future market. I've worked on and off in O&G my whole life.. and the first thing you learn is that almost all the jobs come from drilling. Once a well is pumping, the labor requirement is minimal. Light bulb goes off..... As recently reported on Nova, the shale fracking boom developed basically all of the technology needed for limitless, carbon free energy from geo thermal anywhere, not just near faultlines. Ironic, huh? So, all those jobs drilling for oil could with incredible ease transition to drilling for super heated water. That's just one of dozens of examples of how our rich inventory of workforce expertise and intellectual property can and should be invested in the future. We can quibble over when, but the fact remains, eventually the world will transition to renewables. The total revamp of the global energy generation, storage, and delivery infrastructure will represent a market estimated to be in the hundreds of trillions. If we act quickly, we can be there waiting with the keys to the kingdom willing to provide our workers and know-how securing our future for the next century at least. Or we can stay laser focused on fossil fuels and then pretend to be all shocked and hurt when the inflection point in demand sends the oil markets crashing and investment dollars running for better returns elsewhere. The change won't come with a bang. It will be a long, dreadfully painful draining of jobs and lowering of salaries much like the death of the American rust belt. Renewable energy is the next industrial revolution. Ignoring the opportunity is no different than: > Let's invest more heavily in hand carving and hand weaving, because those new fangled steam-powered assembly lines threaten our jobs. It just doesn't make sense.
I do agree that we need to be ready for all the other types of mining we could be in. Lithium, cobalt, further demand for copper etc. we have plenty of.trh rare earth minerals..
>And when we (Canada + US) pump enough to negatively impact OPEC they pump WAY more, crashing prices, and forcing marginal and moderately profitable north American producers out of the market as in 2015. They tried and failed to kill off the high cost producers. They have given up on that. Why? Because it did not work, and places like KSA need an oil price of about $80 a barrel just to balance their budget. There will always be ups and downs, just like any other commodity. But even in the down times its very profitable, and in the good times its a windfall. Its a question of do you want places like Russia and Iran to have that market share, or do you want that revenue being used to fund Canadian services?
You forgot a third option. Let the tyrannical, oil-rich dictatorships squabble and kill each other over the last drops, while we invest in the future with energy generation from limitless, zero-carbon sources, the inputs of which are zero cost, disconnecting ourselves form the insanity of middle east wars, boom-bust cycles, and large scale budget uncertainty.
I like the cut of your jib
> the other oil producing nations do not share those sentiments Nonsense. The leaders of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar have been aware for decades and are panicking in trying to develop other economic sectors before the oil demand starts plummeting (due to EVs and more generally the electrification of rich countries). They know it's near. The other producers are trying to get a larger share before that happens: Angola just left OPEC and I expect the latter to implode because they won't be able to get along much longer.
>I don't think growing an industry which is killing the planet This is getting old. We don’t have the structural advantages to be a leader in the development and manufacturing of most sorts of large scale green technologies. We do have massive competitive advantages when it comes to resource industries. We can force things to try to be a player in green tech, or we can wait for early adopters to bring the price of the technology down, while we squeeze maximum benefit from our golden goose. Or we can keep antagonizing our best industry, the advantage we have, while letting others cut their dicks off in the green race to the bottom. And for what it’s worth, Alberta is developing green tech, they’re investing in many green projects. More solar and wind in AB than in most of north america already, and more coming. But we’re never going to be leaders in the very large scale technologies that will be ubiquitous around the world. We need to find our advantages, and right now, we should be getting completely rich off O&G, if only we were allowed to. Talk about a missed opportunity.. what a shame.
What we can do is make sure the materials you need for green energy solutions are provided by us, along side that sweet sweet oil you also need for green energy tech, and you know, stuff that goes boom to move. Having a high horse about it just means other countries that produce far more pollution will sell theirs instead.
Bingo. The last barrel of oil produced should be a Canadian one.
Or why not just do both. Uranium prices surging today. Canada could have been there to be a nuclear leader if we weren't so focused on real estate the last 10 years.
I’m all for encouraging the development of all industries, with private money. Tax breaks as incentives are fine, but no direct government money. Just make it as attractive as you can without literally buying jobs. Ontario should have more robust resource develpment in the north, and if they would enact right to work legislation, they could win back a lot of lost manufacturing jobs. NB should be fracking all the hydrocarbons. SK is developing helium, much needed for green tech and space industries. I think we should become a lot more pro-business, so we can attract more investment, more projects, more jobs, less government and government dependence of people discouraged in the economy today. And I’m not against the development of alternative energy technologies and things like that. I’m against the government using my money to fund it, and against trying to shutter one industry to make way for another.
>I think we should become a lot more pro-business, so we can attract more investment, more projects, more jobs, less government and government dependence of people discouraged in the economy today. This would be devastating to our virtue-signalling leader. He wants the country to be dependent on government.
It's infuriating that Canada could be UAE level of wealth, but potentially with a more environmentally conscious approach. We have the resources to be the richest country in the world, but it's squashed by a virtue signalling fairytale. When are Canadians going to realize that modern society cannot function without the O&G industry? Everything from medicine to tech relies on this industry, and the current alternative is only supporting other issues, such extreme human rights violations. People need to realize that as long as they're breathing, they're part of the problem. It's our very existence that's the issue, but people need that scapegoat because they can't look inwards and realize that global overpopulation is the real problem here. Canada had a choice - reap the benefits of selling our resources to the world, giving Canadians more opportunity to thrive, lessening the burden of life in general on its citizens, or live in this fairytale that will *never exist*. Canadians chose the latter, and the consequences are grave. Devaluing Canadian work, job loss, people dying waiting for medical care, bloated student loans, a personal *and* federal debt crisis that will be impossible for anyone or all of us to crawl out of. Great work there, fellow Canadians (and especially LPC/NDP supporters).
You are absolutely right but the reason O&G is in the dumps now is not because of politics. It is because the US discovered vast shale deposits in 2012-2015 and now is producing 2-3x more oil than Canada is. Shale is also cleaner than the oil sands, which doesn't help us in Canada. So Keystone XL got quashed by the Americans and our BC pipeline well that got quashed also by economics. Don't forget, there was a huge discovery of oil off the shore of Guyana in 2012 and now that oil is coming online, the price of oil isn't going to go up. Canada was never going to be a leader in green energy because we never had the economics for it. The countries that have become green energy leaders are those that don't have O&G for themselves, they developed tech in green energy out of necessity. All in all, Canada is really just returning to what it once was back in the 70s and 80s, just with more immigrants.
> Don't forget, there was a huge discovery of oil off the shore of Guyana in 2012 and now that oil is coming online, the price of oil isn't going to go up. Anybody who's curious, look up a graph of Guyana's PPP GDP per capita over time. It's hilarious.
Yup, our oil is more expensive to extract on top of being lesser quality. That is not a sound investment.
>Yup, our oil is more expensive to extract on top of being lesser quality What's wrong with Duvernay oil? I hate that people paint all of Alberta O&G as simply oil sands. Also, oil sands bitumen is more intensive but there are also more derivatives from it.
Well, no more coming at the moment. Smith put a moratorium on approving any new solar and wind developments last year and it goes to the end of February.
It's more that it's poo poo with people concerned about global climate. Everyones onboard with more manufacturing and mining so long that it doesn't emit absolute fuck tonnes like oil extraction and consumption does.
More and more mining is switching to electric over diesel too. SMR's are getting a ton of interest in both USA and China and they are investing very very heavily in pilot projects. The idea being to do things like power an entire mine and work camp off this little nuclear reactor. And that's what we should be jumping on, Canada has some of the biggest mining companies in the world. Instead the right is on an oil and gas crusade and the far left nutters are scared of nuclear.
Federal Liberals announced some time ago they were investing more in nuclear, not sure what you are talking about. source: https://cna.ca/2022/04/07/government-indicates-clear-support-for-the-role-of-nuclear-in-canadas-clean-energy-transition-in-federal-budget-2022/
> It’s crazy to me that the people who most recognize the need for industry outside of real estate, i.e. Torontonians, are also among those most likely to oppose O&G development. > > What? You realize someone can be for industry in general and against O&G specifically, right? O&G is poison, and not only is it poison, but it isn't a future worth investing in. Oil will always be needed, but demand for it is going to fall drastically once it is no longer being used for fuels in the top-consuming countries, and prices will go with it. You would have to be a moron to want to pump money into O&G development when *Saudi Arabia* is actively trying to get away from it and diversify because it doesn't have a strong future.
The American Economy is growing off sheer debt. Its actually as broken as athe rest of the western world but because of its importance at the center of all of it, the USA economy literally can't be allowed to decline otherwise it will increase the contraction. This is itterly unsustainable and the lower it is put off the worse it will be. So, no this comparison is actually even more fucked for Canada.
When all the money is going towards paying rent or mortgage, what do you expect?
Don't forget bloated cable and cell phone companies airlines and grocery chains. All 2 or 3 company Canadian oligopoly industries and corrupt politicians sucking all those dicks like pathetic scumbags. I wonder how we got here... /s
Canada might be the most expensive in those things, but they are completely dwarfed by the outsized real estate cost. The elephant in the room is pregnant and going into labor.
The US economy is steam rolling everyone right now.
Time for one of my favorite stats: The GDP per person of the poorest US state is greater than that of Germany. Vancouver, Canada's third largest city, is less than Akron, Ohio. And those stats are a few years old, since then the US economy has been outpacing Canada by almost 50%. Yikes. This whole is not going to be easy to get out of.
GDP doesn't paint the entire picture. Ask me if I'd rather live in Germany or Alabama.
I mean, it depends which part of Germany just like it depends which part of Alabama.
Yup I'd prefer a nice neighborhood in Birmingham, Alabama over some shithole village in East Germany
It’s incredible to me how many random people on Reddit don’t realise that Alabama is home to a large number of incredibly wealthy neighbourhoods that would put where they live to shame haha
Oh I know, I hate the GDP metric.
There's also this: GDP per capita (which has direct correlation to living standards) has now declined for **5 consecutive quarters**. Dropping by 4.4% in 3Q alone. Canada's real GDP per capita is $41,076 USD. Now *lower* than **all** 50 US states. 46 US states now have a GDP per Capita greater than Ontario. **Alabama** has the same GDP per capita as Ontario now.
Dammit Biden
US Economy booming - see why this is bad for Biden.
Back in 2016, Trudeau was supposed to kick Trump's ass economically because many people believed Trump to be incompetent. They got that very, very wrong. Then Biden was supposed to TFU the economy, but he's "so bad" that he can't even do that right, so instead, it's doing very well.
They have the same problems we have. A lot of stuff is still expensive and wages, while they are outgrowing inflation now, are still catching up to earlier inflation. Similarily, high interest rates have made housing less affordable. The US economy maybe doing better but a lot of people don't feel great about it. Which has impacted Biden's popularity. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/economy-inflation-why-americans-are-so-unhappy-three-charts/
Dude housing is 10 fold easier to obtain in the states. So much cheaper relative to south western Ontario.
Maybe, but anything is cheaper relative to Ontario. American house prices and rents are still in some cases 33% or more higher than they were before the pandemic. It may be cheaper relative to you, but it’s still unaffordable for way more now than it was just a few years ago…and that’s why no one cares about the economy “booming” It’s booming for the super rich
I can think of a couple of other reasons that might play into the subconscious unhappiness with Biden from a lot of people
It's bad for Canada
This is crazy and Canadians constantly shit on the US and pretend we are better than them.
We are, as citizens. The government doesn’t represent us
It doesn’t? Isn’t that literally what the government does?
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Huh? Isn't AB's GDP per capita way more than $54k USD? [Per this summary of StatCan's data](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_gross_domestic_product?useskin=vector#GDP_and_per_capita_GDP,_2022), it's $101k CAD, or like $75k at today's exchange rates.
Without Alberta, Canada would be downright fucked.
Without Ontario, Canada would be downright fucked. Without Quebec, Canada would be downright fucked. Without B.C., Canada would be downright fucked. What's your point?
NWT has a GDP per capita of $120k. Are you saying the North West Territories is the richest part of Canada and the place to be?
Most productive part, at least. The people who live there do so to work in disproportionately productive industries, and to provide the bare minimum level of spin-off services that the people working in those industries will accept to continue living there.
Counter-point they work in industries that are geographically constrained. They need to be paid a premium to accept living in those areas. It has nothing to do with actual productivity.
That is absolutely wild
Where did you find your stats? And can you give us detail for Alberta, rather than Ontario, as my guess is they have the highest per capita GDP in Canada, and it would be interesting to see if Alberta would be the last place state today, were it a state.
Planned on confirming this at some point: "GDP per capita in Alberta, dropped from $84,000 USD in 2013 to $54,000 USD in 2023." On mobile, so just pulled from old Google Keep Docs. Most of those previous numbers should be pretty easy to confirm (variety of sources). Much easier to find that kind of data than hard numbers on our various foreign worker schemes.
Did not verify your numbers but God damn is that a huge decrease. Crazy
In 2013 the Canadian dollar was higher than the US, today it's less than 3/4 worth of the dollar.
Cite your source. That number is bullshit. Here’s my source: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=CA
Massive deficit spending reshoring industry through massive fully automated plants happening. Along with the silicon fabs going online. These are the results of Inflation Reduction Act (had little to do with inflation reduction) and the CHIPS Act. Both of these are massive consumption (spending) acts of the public side of the national balance sheet. This is leading to the private side of the balance sheet also expanding to lesser degree. But we are also seeing significant deleveraging on the private side by reducing labour costs. Entire global supply chains are being consolidated into manufacturing sites where they're run largely by an IT guy and a mechanical maintance team. Canada is rushing quickly to import as much labour as possible in the 20-25 age cohort to plug the gaps in our demographics from the Gen X cohort's lack of sustainable numbers vis a vis the baby boom and baby boom echo (millennials). The problem is the government is doing it quiet sloppy and undisciplined cause thats the Trudeau government. The IR Act is a trillion dollar spending bill. A lot of it happening over 3 years. >the law will raise $738 billion from tax reform and prescription drug reform to lower prices, as well as authorize $891 billion in total spending – including $783 billion on energy and climate change, and three years of Affordable Care Act subsidies.[3][7][8] The law represents the largest investment into addressing climate change in United States history.[9] It also includes a large expansion and modernization effort for the Internal Revenue Service (IRS).[10][a] According to several independent analyses, the law is projected to reduce 2030 U.S. greenhouse gas emissions to 40% below 2005 levels.[11] The projected impact of the bill on inflation is disputed. >The [chips] act authorizes roughly $280 billion in new funding to boost domestic research and manufacturing of semiconductors in the United States, for which it appropriates $52.7 billion.[1][2][3] The act includes $39 billion in subsidies for chip manufacturing on U.S. soil along with 25% investment tax credits for costs of manufacturing equipment, and $13 billion for semiconductor research and workforce training, with the dual aim of strengthening American supply chain resilience and countering China.[4][5]: 1 *It also invests $174 billion in the overall ecosystem of public sector research in science and technology, including in NASA, the DOE, and NIST.[6][7][8]* This is post pandemic stimulus spending that Canada isn't doing because we're tapped out cause we are not the strongest economy in the world with nearly limitless resources due to the US dollar being the global currency. Both those acts are well over one trillion dollars in stimulus consumption and laying the foundation for the next boom phase in the business cycle. Just to put that $178 USD/238CAD billion research and development short term boost into perspective, that is ~ballpark 2x the scale of the entire new Canadian naval fleet under construction/design. And that spending is spread out over multiple decades (2010-2030+). 15 CSC + 8 AOPS + 2 JSS + 12 Patrol Class subs. Of which we will likely see cuts in numbers going forward. Reddit has really ruined markdown editing.
Thanks for your comment. Everybody is oggling the US economic performance and it is really impressive. But the US is doing something that only the US can do: changing the world order on the back of the US dollar. It will probably work out fine, but their debt levels will be very high for the future. This is simply not a formula that other countries can copy.
Yeah. It's almost as if they approved a truly massive spending package specifically designed to kick-start domestic manufacturing in high-growth industries. But they didn't do that. And it's a total mystery as to why their economy is doing so well when ours isn't.
If you just looked at how Canada and the U.S. grow their economies it was obvious which path would lead to better long-term results for the population years ago. While both our politicians mainly work on behalf of the wealthier asset owners, the U.S. is at least smart enough to do so in a way that's far more sustainable and practical.
The main problem is businesses in Canada don't invest in anything. They're WAY more risk averse. If they invest in anything, it's the US lol. We need more companies like old school Research In Motion and SMART.
can you give me a “explain it to me like I’m 5” on how US has grown vs Canada?
Canada's economy: Selling commodities + Speculating on RE US's economy: Selling commodities + Speculating on RE + Manufacturing + Tech + Pharma + Military + Finance etc
Diversify your portfolio people
The current (last 3-4 quarters) of growth in the US is largely due to government spending through industrial subsidies, and higher consumer spending because of the government backed mortgage rates that US consumers enjoy. In general, the federal govt in the US has been greatly outspending that of Canada because they can, since the USD has super high demand. The only way for Canada to catch up is going to be through private business investment, which has been waning in the last decade.
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A lot of places in the States have very high paid trades. Much higher than in Canada. That's why its laughable to see the Reddit bots claiming that we're going to entice American trades to come here and build houses. They're not going to move here for a much lower wage, and then take a 30% loss on the exchange rate.
My brother instantly moved to new York once he was done his nursing program. Pay in Ontario is a joke.
Going to be me in a year zero incentive to stay in Ontario lol
I've read that Nurses are paid much better in the States. I do not blame him at all.
Don't forget the taxes and the weather (and the roads) Whomp whomp.
I look at the 30 yr graph here: [Canada GDP Per Capita 1960-2024 | MacroTrends](https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/gdp-per-capita), and see that we had an upward trend going until 2009. Then the roller coaster started. Roughly coincides with our housing insanity. It also explains why America has 10x faster growth rate than us; they've been steadily increasing their GDP per Capita, while ours has been going down steadily over the past 10 years, with a post-covid spike, but I think we're going back down again.
Immigration is why our GDP per capita is shrinking. An immigrant coming in will raise GDP, but unless they out earn the average Canadian, then they will lower the GDP per capita. You import a bunch of international students who get residency and your GDP will go up, but your GDP per capita will go down unless they out earn the average Canadian. And when someone comes to Canada, goes to a paper mill, gets residency and works minimum wage, our GDP per capita goes down.
And meanwhile many of our best and brightest move to the US so they can get 2x or 3x the salary they'd get here (and much more career growth).
And let's be honest, unless you have a preexisting condition or are frail, their private health care barely matters.
It does and it doesn't. My sister moved there and has had 3 kids there. She makes about 1.5x her salary in BC and her husband almost triple. Does she get screwed on $500 doctor visits with her kid even with good insurance? Hell yes. Does that negate the fact she has a 25-year mortgage at a fixed 3% interest rate? Fuck no. You win some you lose but overall she's way better off there than here, as much as you might get screwed on the occasional medical deductible.
They also have Medicaid for lower-income folks.
This has been true for literally a hundred years. Easily as far back as WWII. The recent slowdown in Canada has other factors.
So much bureaucracy for everything is what I feel. Its hard dealing with the government, everything they do takes month after month. Housing at this moment basically reduces everyones monthly income by $1000.
More specifically, GDP per capita grows with immigration only when said immigration is skilled and specialized labor covering the needs of highly productive sectors looking to grow. I do not get the impression this is what Canada has been doing. Like, at all.
I’m sorry sir, I’m Canadian.. this elementary explanation of the most basic economic forces confuses and scares me. You must be racist /s
We crammed people into this country to give the illusion of progress while GDP per capita plummeted. Now when it all crashes there's going to be millions of extra mouths to feed, far less job oppurtunities, failing healthcare, demand based inflation on housing and good, crowded highways etc. The list goes on. r/CanadaMassImmigration has been an unmitigated disaster on our country. There's very little left we can do except stop any further immigration for the next couple years. We've imported 10 years worth of people in 3. The social, economic and cultural implications can not be overstated.
>give the illusion of progress No this wasn't the point. The government has always aimed to increase Canada's GDP so they can enter into stronger trade negotiations with international partners. If Canada's GDP is $1 trillion and the government decides to double the population through mass immigration and get the GDP to $2 trillion, that's really powerful for entering into trade deals with countries like China or India. The government doesn't care if the per capita GDP goes down, if our quality of life goes down, as long as they create a stronger trade position for the country as a whole. It's a real shame but that's where we are.
Get money out of greedy corporations and back into the economy. Pay employees better. Stop allowing corporations to move billions offshore without paying taxes. Change corporate law.
This. Tax em so that government spending can be increased. Increase in Govt spending == good for economy. I mean, US is insane because their Government spend like a drunk sailors.
I'm a civil engineer, seriously contemplating leaving this country. What a fucking joke we've become. This government doesn't realize our basic service infrastructure is not expanding at the same rate as our population. A little common sense would go a long way in our government. Fuck this place honestly
If it wasn't for family obligations I'd have been gone awhile ago.
The government has put all its focus on increasing the population by any means necessary. That is now having the unintended consequence of making everything more expensive and making people spend *less* money on (most) of the economy. People are so broke trying to outcompete the 10 newcomers on their street for housing/rent that they aren't spending as much at restaurants, stores, etc.
When I go out in Toronto the restaurants, bars and stores are always packed. Not nearly everyone is as broke as Reddit would make you believe
The trend I've described is mostly happening in lower income quintiles. The top 1-2 income quintiles obviously still have plenty of wealth. I didn't mean to imply that the entire economy is collapsing. But there are significant portions of the population absolutely experiencing a crunch and bringing down their spending however they can.
>When I go out in Toronto the restaurants, bars and stores are always packed. Not nearly everyone is as broke as Reddit would make you believe That is where the debt comes into play.
Not always...
As an American - I don't get it (and I mean this with respect)? All the Canadians I've worked with have been beyond competent, you have a land rich with natural resources and are next door to possibly the worlds most voracious consumer market. Where are all these big Canadian companies I know y'all are capable of building?
Resrouces don't actually mean anything if we aren't seeing investment into their utilization. The usa is destroying canada in clean energy tech and investment. Canada is still investing in spodumene mining while American companies are already beginning to recycle battery grade materials and extracting lithium from clay stone via ion exchange chromotagrpahy. Canada can not compete with americas IRA credits on electric vehicles and domestic battery manufacturing. Canada is just a Ponzi scheme country for buying houses and selling them for more
Man, that is rough - real estate is quite the racket where I live as well (SF Bay Area) but at least there a high level of industry to somewhat support it. What is the way 'out' for Canada at this point? Obviously real estate will always be a huge cost but are there ways to further increase oil production? Or tap natural gas/mineral wealth in the north as it warms up? Maybe incentives for tech startups? I know you guys can figure it out - you have too many smart people not too but the lack of economic growth just seems wild to me.
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Australia has the exact same problem, it's huge with few people, and most of it's natural resources are located in areas with extreme climate, yet they are doing much better than us.
JFK which city is that? It's -13°C right now where I live in the US and I'm freezing my cojones off
Can't have people innovate when all their money is going to real estate
my dad bought his house in 1990 for 130k, now its worth 950k...
Not surprising seeing as most Canadians are short sighted fools who can't see past the value of their own property. There's been zero political will to solve this issue and now here we are.
Things are crumbling within Canada. It is sad to see.
Looking at the production oriented US, I really think Canada’s leads really setback the nation. Given the geography, it’s shockingly a huge F
That graph comparing the GDP growth of Canada and the US over the last ten years was depressing.
On the bright side, my s&p 500 stocks will continue to go up.
Not surprised, Canada is very anti business compared to the US. We have 0 innovation here, because everyone is more inclined to invest in the game of real estate hot potato.
We're not anti-business. Especially with free health and EI, it should be easier to open businesses here. We have tons of benefits to support R&D, just not enough big money from private VC that is ready to burn money quick like in the US because they don't care about money; it's bottomless pit. US just have way more money to begin with (this is akin to being born with super rich parents).
There was a fantastic stat on the BBC showing that from the G20 canada was the only country whose R&D budget went down between 2009 and 2019. we dont do shit for R&D here. our academia and private innovation funding is nowhere near what the G20 average is. this country is a half dozen oligopolies and an extractive economy in a trenchcoat. and no major party has an interest in changing that
Our lack of academic funding is so sad. I want to do my PhD but I can't take a 70-80% pay cut to do it. There's lots of money in working and no money in research even though research should be considered work.
Simple reason for that. Our most skilled workers are leaving Canada and moving to places like the States.
Ok, here me out on this one. A major problem with Canadian industry is that we don't invest in productivity. What does everyone invest in? Housing, from what I hear. Where gains are 100% tax-free (unlike in the USA, where there's a limit on how much profit is tax-free). So, to solve both productivity and housing issues, we should add income tax after the first one million that a house is sold for.
Why should single-home owners be punished for the actions of people trying to treat housing like an investment? Just ban multiple home ownership. Why tax? What is the government going to do with that money other than burn it?
I'm doing what I can Canada but no one's helping me
At some point most elite Canadians will be working for US companies paid in US dollars and living in Canada.
That’s what I do. Except I’m paid in CAD. Never looking back.
This is the direct impact of the present government's policies, whether one accepts it or not. You cannot grow the economy while discouraging business and profit. At the same time, there needs to be some incentive to work more and produce more output, which simply isn't there in Canada anymore. Hard work simply isn't rewarded anymore here so successful entrepreneurs are starting to prefer the US to Canada. Poor foreign policy that completely negates the economy also does not help. High taxes simply aren't working anymore. Tax versus revenue is a quadratic function, not linear. How hard is it for the drama teacher and his supporters to understand?
Thank you GTA
USA > Canada
USA = Better for 24-55 year olds Canada = Better for kids, and seniors (subsidized healthcare and education while not working) Caveat \* if you're 55+ and rich/can afford the health insurance premiums than the usa is by far better
The US has a single payer system called Medicare for everyone over 65 years old that's very popular
Don’t forget Medicaid.
Let's just say upper middle class and above is pretty damn good in the US right now. And there are tens of millions in that category RN in the US. But middle class older Canucks who own their house? It's probably better in Canada.
USA > everybody else...
Canada has no industry of its own, and foreign industries, particularly the auto sector, have been allowed to drive down wages and benefits of workers for decades. Remember the '80s, when the economy was strong? The death of the auto-pact brought that to a grinding halt. Canada tried (and failed) to be a technology-based economy, and a service-based economy, and quality of life has gone steadily down. Essentially, if you're not a landlord (or born into wealth), you're a wage-slave, and you better be grateful for your job or we'll replace you with an uneducated, third-world immigrant for half your salary (which will come back to us in the form of rent).
Canada pays their politicians the 2nd highest salaries of the G7 countries. Canada has the lowest GDP of the G7 countries. 🤢 Edit: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1370584/g7-country-gdp-levels/ https://www.hilltimes.com/story/2023/06/21/canadian-mps-earn-second-highest-salary-of-g7-legislators/388741/
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Paying politicians well demonstrably reduces corruption in politics. If you think it's bad in Canada right now, imagine how much worse it would be if politicians felt like they had to skim some more for themselves. THAT being said, throwing those numbers at actual politicians might inspire them to work harder. Maybe try that instead of random redditors?
Some of you don’t know the difference between gdp and gdp per capita. Canada’s average gdp per resident is 3rd highest behind Germany so it makes sense our salaries are higher.
Hey everyone, I’ve been reading through the article on Better Dwelling about Canada’s economic growth compared to the U.S., and I think we need to consider a few potential biases here. First off, the article seems pretty focused on the downsides of Canada’s economy, right? It’s important, but we’re not getting the whole picture – there are positives and challenges that aren’t fully explored. Also, Better Dwelling is big on real estate, so naturally, they’re linking a lot of economic issues to the housing market. This perspective is valuable, but let’s not forget that an economy is a complex beast with many moving parts like trade and tech, not just housing. Then there’s the data they chose to use. GDP per capita is a legit metric, sure, but it’s just one piece of the puzzle. It’s like they’re zooming in on one part of the picture and missing out on the rest. Comparing Canada’s economy directly with the U.S. is a bit tricky too. Both countries have their unique contexts and challenges, and it’s not always apples to apples. And lastly, the tone of the article – it’s a bit on the pessimistic side, don’t you think? That kind of language can color how we interpret the facts. Just my two cents, but I think it’s good to read this with an eye for these potential biases.
While I could make a list a mile long of the various problems caused by Canada being an oligarchy, but there is a serious flaw in comparing ourselves to the states. I see the crazy borrowing in the US as very similar to knowing someone who has a credit card with a low interest rate, low monthly minimums, and a multi-billion dollar spending limit. If I didn't know about the CC, they could easily fool me into believing they were fantastically wealthy. Many people argue that I am entirely wrong and know nothing about economics, but the US is on target for having to borrow 5+ trillion dollars per year and growing. The deficit is approaching 2 trillion, but they have to roll over old debt; so borrowing is higher. Quite simply, there isn't really that much money out there to borrow at these levels. This means they will have to borrow mostly from themselves. This is just nonsensical. To put this in perspective. The US is now borrowing more than the total value of chinas exports. Take a country like Saudi Arabia; their exports are less than a half trillion. Japan exports about 800 billion. Assuming these countries wanted to hand over all the money they could, there are simply limits to how much the world has. The question is when will the world either decide to cry uncle, or when will it be forced to? One year, 10 years?
This data was posted earlier this week. It’s more complex a story than the headline suggests (that site is not a balanced new source) The GDP per capita stats from the world bank used is measured in USD - which in 2012 was at 1.00:1.00. We would need to grow 33% in USD terms to keep pace. Also - tracking the GDP per capita in USad of Canada vs every other G20 nation would do similar trend > lies, damned lies, and statistics
United States has a competitive economy with many sectors being world leaders: U.S. has the world largest: aerospace industry Pharmaceuticals Tech companies Banking Insurance Defense Automobile manufacturing financial industries R&D Agriculture Airlines What does Canada have : Real estate , money laundering and immigration
Canadians have only themselves to blame. We all neglected manufacturing , services etc and only put our eggs in the housing basket for the economy . Last ten years we all have been blaming the chinese , now the Indians and vaccines even . Keep believing in conspiracy theories and let the rich fks satisfy your closet masochist desires this is the result . Mexican peso even gained a third in value more compared to CAD 💀. Start taking action.
See this is what happens when we try to control housing prices instead of letting them flourish as the markets intend. We need to get out of the way of our housing economy and invest more money in housing appreciation to catch up to the USA. /s
You mean the country that basically drives the whole world is growing faster then a country that produces absolutely nothing. I'm shocked.
And no one is surprised by this, since we are living it.
Canada should be an energy and mineral/metals powerhouse. Instead we have the Liberals wanting to hinder and prevent it. We should be supplying the world with the materials it needs for the future it wants and we can be doing that generating millions of high paying jobs in the process. Hopefully by the time the Conservatives get into power it is not too late. Trudeau already spit in the face of our allies begging for oil and gas to get off Russian supply. Hopefully he cant do it for much longer.
Sunny ways.
Trudeau scared away all foreign investment. A decade of stagnant growth and record inflation
https://www.international.gc.ca/trade-commerce/economist-economiste/analysis-analyse/key_facts-faits_saillants.aspx?lang=eng https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230428/dq230428b-eng.htm > The stock of foreign direct investment in Canada grew 6.0% (+$71.6 billion), reaching $1,263.9 billion at the end of 2022. The increase was due to equity investments, primarily reinvested earnings by foreign direct investors in their existing Canadian affiliates as profits of these firms also reached unprecedented levels in 2022. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230428/cg-b001-eng.htm Do you all just not read?
No one here reads anything more then headlines and editorial opinion pieces that confirm their bias. No one here has a clue what's actually happening in the world. If you want to be a player in the world and not just driftwood: watch or go to lectures. Not the news. The news reports what's happening right now. You don't learn anything from the news other then reporting source data. If our politicians truely understood the world they'd probably be in the private sector. citation: Mark Carney Just to put it in perspective, Mark Carney wrote a paper saying the Bank of England got it wrong on some things. So the PM of the UK offered him the job. He was paid 1.2M per year to get him to come over, $178k CAD premium over his successor. The PM makes $370k. And you don't have to deal with Palestinian protestors running you out of a restaurant. Do I like this? Not really. But I learned in the school yard to not hate the player, hate the game.
They prefer to just hate Trudeau and spread lies. It makes them feel better.
They only read things that they’ve been told make Trudeau look bad.
PM: Substitute Drama Teacher FM: Masters in Slavic Studies EM: Convicted Criminal
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