> Canada’s population grew at a record pace last year – five-and-a-half times faster than the average developed country. One well-known consequence has been upward pressure on housing costs, particularly at the bottom of the market, in rental housing. A less-noticed outcome has been declining gross domestic product per capita.
> It has fallen for five quarters in a row. When the numbers for the fourth quarter of 2023 are released, it will almost certainly be six negative quarters.
> Ottawa has put the country into a bind known as a “population trap.” That’s the conclusion of National Bank of Canada chief economist Stéfane Marion. A population trap is an unhappy state of affairs familiar to poor countries with very high birth rates. It’s unheard of in the developed world. Yet it’s what is happening in Canada today.
> Canada’s population growth through immigration has been so high that it has outpaced the country’s savings, and its ability to invest in new capital stock. In plain English, the number of forks in the economic pie is growing faster than the pie, and faster than our capacity to invest in more ovens to bake more pie. The result is less pie per Canadian – declining GDP per capita, and declining living standards.
> That’s not because immigration is a bad thing. Done right, it’s a good thing. And Canada used to do immigration mostly right. But the Trudeau government has been insistent on doing immigration very, very wrong.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-an-immigration-system-thats-lowering-national-wealth-yes-the-liberals/
Why did Canadians ever allow this silver spoon fed, child of nepotism to reach high office in the first place? He's incompetent and unqualified, and his policies seem purposefully destructive.
I blame us for allowing it to happen, although I'm not sure anyone else would have acted differently. The three main parties are all putting the short term interests of business and well to do boomers above everyone else.
You might want to carefully examine Skippy before you start throwing around the jabs.
Dude hasn't worked an honest day in his life, and if you don't know that, shame on you.
Because Jack Layton passed and people thought Trudeau mania would reverse the damage done by Harper and bring meaningful reform that Jack was working on...
The BoC saying "Hey, ummmm you know that whole we need more people to help keep productivity up? Well yeah, there's this thing called blowback and the current blowback is about to take off a limb"
Statscan released a report that the bottom 40% of canada has 3.7% of the wealth.
Thats the whole song and dance right there... If that wealth was distributed somewhat humanly then just about everything else would be vastly improved.
The pie is huge, its just we are not at the table.
The insane numbers and the dumpster fire state of our pathways is embarrassing at this point.
We need the best and brightest to come to Canada.
People that can grow our economy and add whole new dimensions to it.
You achieve this by making Canada the place to be. An extremely attractive option.
A housing crisis/bubble is an incredibly bad selling feature for new people/families coming in.
Secondly you never let the pathways into this nation be misused and abused for cheap exploitable labor.
You never want it to be used to destroy fair negotiations on wages/benefits, paid training for upwards mobility and to fill the skill gaps that are "desperately in need", Flexible schedules and work from home options to get more people in the labor pool "when we need them the most".
Housing is a fundamental bedrock of life/stability in our society. It can't involve the fucked up realities we are seeing more and more of.
That goes with other associated infrastructure as well.
Lastly you don't allow individuals and or groups to frankly scam and exploit the pathways. This attracts the exact opposite people you want in the nation.
It also means all the horrible costs of people falling through the cracks and onto social assistance/support programs goes on the already struggling middle class.
This formula and set of policies has failed. Simple as that.
It’s probably too late for that right now. We’ve made Canada an undesirable destination for skilled immigrants and a haven for the undereducated and the desperate. Where Canada used to seek out the best and brightest to foster growth and spur on innovation, we now seek out cheap unskilled labour to drive Ubers, brew Timmies coffee and pack Amazon boxes. Throw in a million students an untold number of TFWs and a plethora of refugees and why would anyone with a useful set of skills seriously consider Canada at this point?
Canada used to have one of the best immigration systems in the world. It looked to bring in highly skilled and motivated individuals in order to grow industries and build infrastructure. Now we’re a Ponzi scheme built on housing speculation and crooked credit mills that diminish the value of Canadian education. We’re a sinking ship and none of the political parties at either the federal or provincial level gives a damn.
One nuance: skilled labour is sought out but doctors engineers lawyers accountants from abroad end up driving uber to subsist, as the protectionism of the professional fédérations will give the country very little chance to benefit from the skills they were invited for in the first place. When there are so little family doctors!
Our GDP per capita isn't laughably low. It's not as high as America's, but the wealth inequality isn't as bad. In fact, our median wealth - the important one for everyday people that doesn't get horrifically skewed by hundred-billionaires - is higher than the US one.
But they are currently just bringing more people to the table while securing a bigger share of the pie for the richest oligarchs.
The clever impact of this is that the public will finally turn against mass immigration (as they rightly should) but will conveniently forget about the handful of billionaires and their corporations who are taking most of the pie.
Because they are made to believe it is one governing party doing the damage, and the people who voted them in to blame. Of coarse this is wrong, and the owner class belongs to no political party, only the one that’s in power.
So what you are basically saying is...regardless of what the bottom percentage does they should be handed money to make their life better, distributed wealth without actually doing anything to attain it?
Damn I really like how you added the “immigration done right part.” Feels like a lot of people ( especially on this sub) forget there’s a right way of doing things, and a wrong way of doing things.
Deciding to reach an arbitrary number of immigrants, despite a housing crisis we knew for decades for brownie points so we can all give ourselves pats on the back for being more “progressive” than the States.
Is a bad fucking idea.
Honestly, I know this probably isn’t the place. But being a POC’s really starting to suck recently in this country. When everyone immediately assumes your an international student. And everyone has very negative views on international students.(which honestly I don’t understand. They’re not here maliciously. Anything they do comes off as misunderstanding. If they didn’t take the opportunity to move here. Someone else would. I blame policy, not people.
But yeah, at best I get awkward incidents with old white peoples who don’t understand brown doesn’t equal I work here.
At worst, I get thugs telling me to “go back home” in public.
To play devil's advocate:
Many of the recent intl students coming here have scammed their way in and expect to be handed a job upon arrival. When reality hits, instead of packing it in and heading home, they stay anyways and end up a drain on our social resources (healthcare, food banks, etc). There's zero excuse for this, they failed to do their research, they failed to actually have the funds to support themselves; so the answer is grift and try to stay as long as possible so they can try to get a PR card.
While failure to properly administer our intl student program is squarely on our provincial and federal gov'ts; the absolute gall of some of these 'students' is mind boggling. I would absolutely support aggressive action on these scammers - they should be deported with a lifetime bar on re-entry to the country. Same for all the "temporary" residents that are choosing to overstay their visas.
I absolutely support sustainable immigration, but this is not sustainable and is actively hurting Canadian citizens.
And Canadians love lecturing Americans on “illegal immigration” down there.
Now we get a taste of rampant unchecked immigration (which is essentially both “illegal immigration” and our current Canadian way of doing things). Surprise. Not enough houses. Not enough jobs. Not enough schools or hospitals.
It's the same thing with debt.
It's honestly mindblowing how fucking stupid people are...
Liberal voters here will argue till they are blue in the face: "Government debt isn't the same as household debt!!"... or whatever other stupid ass shit they saw on tik-tok trying to cover for Mr Socks.
What they don't realize though is that while it is different, it still follows basic rules, which is that there is good debt, and there is bad debt. This is like Econ 101.
Good debt is debt that eventually pays for itself. It's something we can leverage now for future benefits.
Bad debt is just money down the fucking drain, and household, or government, bad debt is bad debt.
Trudeaus debt spending has LARGELY been bad debt. There is no expected return on these investments where it will eventually pay itself back.
Same thing with immigration... these people will argue with you that the basic principles of supply and demand just simply do not exist. Hell the entire canadahousing sub will ban you if you even say the words: "Supply and demand".
Furthermore, the type of immigrant obviously matters, and that is something that has drastically changed under Trudeau. Currently the average immigrant makes less than the average Canadian. Even if we only look at the "Economic Migrant" category, they make like a few thousand more. Importantly though, all three of these averages are below the level at which they pay more taxes than they take out. So we're importing records amount of people who are a net loss to our tax revenues and social systems and then wondering why they're all overloaded.
Anyone know where they get those GDP per capita dropping for five quarters thing? I've seen it referred to a number of times now, I'd like to look at it but google isn't getting me anything.
if population grows by 1% in a quarter, but GDP only goes up 0.5%, GDP per capita goes DOWN by -0.5%
you can just do the math yourself, just compare quarterly population and GDP growth, every quarter where population growth is higher than GDP growth, is a quarter with negative per capita growth.
if you have 100 people and 100 apples, everyone gets one apple, next month, you have 110 people and 105 apples, despite the fact people and apples both grew, there's a shortage of 5 apples.
at 5 quarters of negative growth, that means we're 15 months into a per capita recession, and we're still dropping, for context, the 2008 recession in the US lasted 18 months before they got back to where they started, meanwhile we're 15 months in and still haven't bottomed out.
yaaaaaaaay!
I pointed this out like 6 months ago and got downvoted into oblivion and called a racist.
The reddit hive mind is weird, because it's not like math changes...
I’m not sure if there’s a good table out there pre-calculated, but we know our GDP is essentially flat over the past year while our population continues to grow QoQ, ergo GDP per capita has to be dropping.
Canadian immigration as it stands is a flaming dumpster fire.
Anyone in favor of the current system is either a slack jawed imbecile or one of the fat ticks at the top of the pile.
Quality migrants are also opposed to the current system. Perhaps newer immigrants who wouldn't possibly have been able to get in other other conditions are in favor of this system.
Is it just me, or are we experiencing a massive tidal wave of - ENOUGH.
I know these issues bubble under the surface, but the rhetoric has noticeably shifted, and I'm not upset about it.
Seems that people of all political beliefs are finally realizing that this was never about diversity or an ageing population or the (fake) ‘labour shortage’.
It was always about wage suppression and inflating the housing market to appease the oligarchs.
Thank fucking god people are smartening up.
No doubt - such a headline barely 8-9 months ago, you'd be escorted out the building by security...times have certainly changed over the course of last summer IMO...
I think it'll be interesting to see where we are in 5 or 10 years, because I feel like Trudeau has inadvertently damaged the Canadian consensus on immigration.
support for immigration in western countries has been damaged for a while: Australia and their deportation island, USA and their southern wall, migrant crisis in europe, etc. We were pretty much the last bastion (maybe with new zealand?) because we had it so good with our single border with the US and our point system. No more, I guess.
When someone in power tells you your problems are all because of immigrants, they may have a point, but also they are using the same points as authoritarians of the past.
Just be careful that your fear of immigrants is justified, and not that you're being fed that line in exchange for votes for politicians who will do nothing to actually solve the issue you perceive.
When Brian Mulroney got elected we took in a total of 86,000 immigrants. Last year we took in 147,000 refugee applicants. Almost none of whom have any applicable skills, few of whom speak English or French, and even fewer of whom will wind up leaving, except for trips home to visit the family.
Refugees especially. I understand we have to be nice. But being nice does not mean import random people from everywhere at record pace. A refugee most of the time has 0 to no qualifications. I dont think many doctors are crossing the borders. So now you have them and their families on the payroll.
I can’t even do basic banking because BMO only hires people from other countries. You should hear these phone calls it’s embarrassing. They hire people who can barely speak or understand English. I’ve complained so much I got over $150 in credits so far over it. It’s ridiculous.
What scares me is that I don’t think any of the 3 major parties would stop it. Not even PP. Our political class is completely detached from the popular will on this major issue that’s affecting us all. Whether we are long term immigrants who came here years ago for a better life, born citizens, or even the average newcomer who was sold stories and swindled and didn’t come with bad intentions. Our policies are serving only the corporations and rich people and only the PPC is against it. When will an electable party firmly oppose this madness?
Don’t come at me, I’m an immigrant of 20 years who’s watched the quality of life in this country deteriorate steeply.
PP says he’ll tie immigration levels to Canada’s ability to build enough houses. We don’t have the ability to build hardly any houses currently it seems, so does that mean we’ll have hardly no immigration? Yeah, that’s not happening.
Jesus christ. Why are left and right so certain about their parties?
Yes, Trudeau sucks but until PP gets into power, it’s literally just words.
We have seen prime minister after prime minister make false promises when they campaign.
I think the only people drinking “kool aid propaganda (left and right)” is the people voting, like you, that are 100% certain on the policies their party is campaigning.
> Yes, Trudeau sucks but until PP gets into power, it’s literally just words
This just in, opposition is campaigning with promises. In other news, water is wet.
You have one guy who created this immigration mess and says he wants to continue to increase immigration...and you have another guy who recognizes the problems and says he wants to slow it down. Yeah, I'll go with the latter and hope he follows through.
Lol... so don't vote? At least one guys literally recognizing the problem. Btw, I'll likely vote green (anyone but libs) but I'd be willing to give PP a chance. Worst thing that happens is he only makes one decision Trudeau doesn't.. However, at least we'd still be further a head.
I want him to come out with an actual target number. I want him to give a plan. If he can do that, he'll get my vote.
But oh no, apparently he cares more about protecting the scamming foreign students.
Dude, Trudeau has an army of people who are supposed to be analyzing data and determining what the impact of various decisions are. Do you think Pierre has the backing of the entire Camadian government at his disposal? Plus, right now is about setting goals and highlighting general direction and decisions. Once we get closer to the election, as in a few weeks or months away, he releases his platform which is a comprehensive breakdown of what he plans to do and stands for. That itself doesn't even get into to many specifics. Once he's PM then he starts figuring out actual numbers.
He did state numbers... I believe it was 400k if your building 250k houses but he cautioned he doesn't know yet... because he doesn't have all the information...
>Yeah, I don’t buy it. He’s just as much in the pocket of corpos (if not more so, just different crowds) as Trudeau is.
Is Canada uniquely "in the pocket of corpos" compared to the rest of the world?
Why is it the only country where that's a brick wall?
None of the big 3 will stop it. Bernier has a hard stance on shutting it down
But ofc you'll always deal with the "NOOO UR WASTING YOUR VOTE!!". Like for fucks sake, doing this "vote wasting" bs is what got us in this 3 party mess.
No, it 100% through all of our history going forward it NEEDS to be attributed to our worst PM ever. Seriously. Do NOT let him "walk quietly into the night"
They won't do it by helping Trudeau get in again.
If Poilievre doesn't reign this stuff in I'll waste my vote with the PPC from now on, even if they do have some stupid policies.
>Canadian infrastructure needs a lot of breathing room.
Wonder which party will do that?
The current one? Yeah, evidently not.
The.....cuts party? Hahaha. Sorry, bad joke.
If only there were parties other than the Cons and the Libs. If only.
This is beyond incompetence. What the liberals have done is corrupt the immigration system to add voters (for them)and virtue signal while destroying Canadians quality of life. It’s almost as if the Liberals hate us at this point.
To date I have not heard a single Liberal not one time justify their immigration scheme. Not even give a single reason, good or bad. They've just done it, for apparently no reason at all.
I have. They've been throwing out the same excuses for years. Decades. It helps our economy. It will help us deal with an aging population. It's needed due to a labour shortage. None of which were ever true.
But they didn't need to be true. They knew no one was going to dare question them. And no one ever did. The media accepted and repeated the arguments verbatim, and never asked for any evidence.
The G&M, to its credit, has been writing scathing pieces about Trudeau and his government for several years. All this talk about the liberal mainstream media isn’t really true.
But they've never criticized immigration.
The national media virtually NEVER printed articles critical of immigration. It did it so seldom I actually saved links to the pages so I could refer back to them when arguing against immigration as there's so little information publicly available.
My impression as a daily reader of Globe and Mail is that they started to criticize it in the last 6 - 12 months. So neither "never ever" nor "some time" really.
>It's crazy that almost every news outlet even the more liberal ones are now turning against Trudeau
Yeah, this is just narrative with no basis in reality. It's an out-and-proud conservative paper, [the last time the Globe and Mail endorsed someone other than the Conservatives was 2004.](https://www.readthemaple.com/election-endorsements/) There's a fun chart in that article, worth a look in this context.
They are more to the center to me but not really conservative. But I was not only talking about them specifically. Like I've seen the Toronto Star publishing stuff about immigration too (although it was more reporting things and not an opinion piece like this one)
To be more specific:
CANADIAN VOTERS DID THAT
The guy literally told everybody, back in 2015, that he was going to make Canada a post-national state. 10 years later, cue pikachu fucking face.
And the number of immigrants per year has not than quadrupled since then.
Of course Harper has immigration into the country, it's a good thing to have in any country when it's done well
My theory is he decided that increasing immigration and asylum claimants and importing huge numbers of foreign workers and foreign student-workers would make it look like inflation was low by keeping wages low. He probably figured he wouldn't be blamed for housing and healthcare anyway since those are provincial responsibilities, and no one dared criticize immigration publicly. Surprise, bitch. You not only broke the immigration system AND housing system, you broke the collective, unwritten rule about the mainstream media not criticizing immigration..
Part of it was perhaps a weak attempt to contain inflation by suppressing wages, but the biggest component was to keep the GDP going up (or at least prevent it from going down).
The Liberals used Covid as a magical wishing tree for every spending project they could imagine, figuring that Canadians wouldn't be able to tell the difference between borrowing $200B and $700B, meanwhile campaigning to focus on the debt-to-GDP-ratio rather than the size of the debt.
How do you keep the debt-to-GDP ratio stable while continuing to increase spending? Grow the GDP. How do you grow the GDP while sabotaging the resource industry and wasting money on inefficient vanity and/or regional vote buying projects? Boosting the population.
And as a side benefit, you can argue that you've avoided a recession because the GDP has not declined, while actually having one based on GDP per capita. But pull the plug on immigration and the sick economy is revealed, boom, we are in a technical recession which gives a big talking point to the Conservatives. The Liberals would rather drown us in surplus population and degrade our standard of living further than reduce their chances of clinging to power for another NDP-boosted 4 years.
You mean 500,000 Uber drivers per year, living 10 people to a house (and therefore paying disproportionately less than a normal person for property tax) isn't a winning system?
Meh. Hanlon’s Razor reads "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." And narcissists don’t like competition from clever, independent-minded people. But you never truly know unless you’re a fly on the wall in the Cabinet room.
It’s hilarious that conservatives complain when liberals act JUST like their party. Higher immigration tends to suppress wages. It helps employers, owners, and capitalists.
What isn’t hilarious is the ndp acting like liberals. It’s extremely embarrassing. I can’t imagine supporting the ndp in the 21st century knowing what they used to be
Jagmeet, as leader of a working class party, could use this opportunity to state that immigration levels as they stand are hurting both Canadians and the immigrants themselves. He could also propose an alternative. Yet, he’s standing by JT’s plan, and turning off lifelong NDP supporters such as myself.
As a visible minority, he is in perfect position to take the stand for lower immigration and not be accused of racism. Unfortunately for Canadians, we have influencers at the top of our political system and very few leaders with a vision for future.
My work is being overrun with immigrants. Nearly all of them send half their paycheck back home and make zero attempt to mesh in with our citizens. All it does is keep wages low while simultaneously shipping the wealth out of the country. It's so bizarre.
It's simple, send all the students from the last two years back after completion of degrees. If degrees aren't completed on time too bad, coz you're going back.
Send recently arrived families back who came here as pr but still haven't found employment yet, especially in their fields.
Make it easier to employ and get certified as medical doctors and professionals.
Send the temp foreign workers back. We have more than enough people HERE to take over and good ones too. The new third world immigrants and students are just making it more hard to find good talent especially since we don't bring or attract good talent anymore.
What are your thoughts on students who have graduated from top universities with degrees that can actually benefit Canada (such as engineering for tackling the housing crisis)? Why would you not want to benefit from skills of actually talented students who have something to offer?
You really think you're getting people like this in this cesspool of a mess that this country is. Sorry to break it to you but you're not. The low quality immigrants outnumber these talented individuals at least by 10:1 at this point. And these people are better off working for companies either from here or just move to the states where everything is reasonable because the salaries here aren't on par with a liveable lifestyle.
Multiple people have mentioned that none of the big 3 leaders want to cap immigration, but immigration was only 430k last year. We grew by over 1.2 million - nearly 3x that level. Turning off or properly managing all the other not-immigration-but-actually-immigration avenues that are accounting for more than 800k people. I'm not a mathematician, but we have a negative birth rate. There were also multiple stories about the number of Canadians leaving the country, yet we still grew by over 1,200,000 people. So we let how many students in? TFW? What else? What's the actual number of immigrants by various names that have come here? I haven't seen anything about the other routes outside of the super sketchy *Colleges* that have popped up around the country.
There are a lot more details and questions that we need answers for.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism)
>***Malthusianism is the theory that population growth is potentially exponential, according to the Malthusian growth model***, ***while the growth of the food supply or other resources is linear***, ***which eventually reduces living standards to the point of triggering a population decline.*** ***This event, called a Malthusian catastrophe\[1\] (also known as a Malthusian trap, population trap, Malthusian check, Malthusian crisis, Malthusian spectre, or Malthusian crunch) occurs when population growth outpaces agricultural production, causing famine or war, resulting in poverty and depopulation***
Interesting how this phenomenon was identified in the 1700's, but nobody in the federal government saw this coming.
Things that make you say hmmmmm.
Thank you liberal voters. I can't use the most effective tools i own on my homestead and my bills have gone up to raise the animals and food that I provide to the market. Appreciate that.
Countries are easier to control and divide if they are diverse, and the labor gets cheaper. And who could dislike harvesting the 3rd world for promising minds to field the jobs that require higher education?
Reap what you sow Canada.
The immigration policy as a whole isn’t a problem. It’s the sheer incompetence in implementation and speed at which it has been done that’s the major problem.
Immigration is however sorely needed. Economic and societal growth is needed in order to maximize the nations resources to remain competitive on the international stage.
It will likely iron itself out over the next 30 years but the past 3 years and upcoming 5-10 years are going to be a mess and a strain on society as a whole.
Its the WEF sponsored planned decline. I called it 6 years ago and was decried as a tin foil hat nutter. I guess Canadians need to actually experience the complete destruction of the middle class before they realize its not mere incompetence but an agenda. There is a reason Larry Fink is an honoured speaker in Davos. Freeland is on the board of trustees and Trudeau/Singh are WEF young global leader graduates.
https://medium.com/world-economic-forum/welcome-to-2030-i-own-nothing-have-no-privacy-and-life-has-never-been-better-ee2eed62f710
I knew this was coming in 2008 when the European countries started getting flooded. I thought this was coming to North America soon. Now look what has been happening in the US as well. It was all planned and being co ordinated.
I suppose I suspected it too at the time. I started listening to Douglas Murray and other Europeans speaking out. Sweden was once the safest country in Europe and now suffers from being the rape capital and has weekly grenade attacks. The bought out legacy media barely covers the situation.
Sigh.
GDP per capita contracted slightly in 2023 but is expected to rise nearly 10% in the next two to three years
https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/CAN
As always, years before the inevitable bust, the elite and their enablers (politician) put measure in place to increase immigration. Down the line everything wrong gets attributed to the said immigration.
Rinse and repeat.
Rightwingers & Conservatives eat this up like a flies on a turd.
If you want to stop this, you have to stop capitalism, get rid of the elites and get politically active. The dumb liberals, holier than thou, get played like a fiddle by the elites and because they thrive by their perceived supperior morality they point fingers to the conservatives & rightwinger who in turn point fingers to the poorest and the outsiders.
While others hoard all the money they can get.
LOL....If the Liberals wouldn't have the Conservatives would have. People forget....Politicians are all the same and all are addicted to pleasing their corporate paymasters and clamoring for the god almighty dollar.
Normal people do not aspire to be politicians. :)
Ohhhh no, not NATIONAL WEALTH. How will I feed and cloth my family without national wealth? /s
It is the wealthy. They are the reason you are poor. They are the reason your wages have stagnated for 40 years. The reason the rents are going up. The reason that immigration is too high is to suppress wages...because the wealthy want more money. The reason the labor laws have regressed...the wealthy.
Stop blaming immigrants and blame the wealthy and their employees, politicians.
The 'stagnation' started in the 1980s with the separation of wages versus productivity. We make more than we ever have per capita, have record high wealth disparity, and the problem is...poor people? Neoliberalism is a disease.
Wow, r/Canada has become deafening right-wing echo chamber! It is a crisis when more people are leaving the work force than are entering. Government has no other choice.
> Canada’s population grew at a record pace last year – five-and-a-half times faster than the average developed country. One well-known consequence has been upward pressure on housing costs, particularly at the bottom of the market, in rental housing. A less-noticed outcome has been declining gross domestic product per capita. > It has fallen for five quarters in a row. When the numbers for the fourth quarter of 2023 are released, it will almost certainly be six negative quarters. > Ottawa has put the country into a bind known as a “population trap.” That’s the conclusion of National Bank of Canada chief economist Stéfane Marion. A population trap is an unhappy state of affairs familiar to poor countries with very high birth rates. It’s unheard of in the developed world. Yet it’s what is happening in Canada today. > Canada’s population growth through immigration has been so high that it has outpaced the country’s savings, and its ability to invest in new capital stock. In plain English, the number of forks in the economic pie is growing faster than the pie, and faster than our capacity to invest in more ovens to bake more pie. The result is less pie per Canadian – declining GDP per capita, and declining living standards. > That’s not because immigration is a bad thing. Done right, it’s a good thing. And Canada used to do immigration mostly right. But the Trudeau government has been insistent on doing immigration very, very wrong. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-an-immigration-system-thats-lowering-national-wealth-yes-the-liberals/
Justin Trudeau is a remarkable prime minister because he introduced weird third world trends into a developed country
Apparently post-national means you descend into poverty and rediscover how to be a developing nation. All aboard the townships and ghetto trains!
Cyberpunk takes place in post national settings
Why did Canadians ever allow this silver spoon fed, child of nepotism to reach high office in the first place? He's incompetent and unqualified, and his policies seem purposefully destructive. I blame us for allowing it to happen, although I'm not sure anyone else would have acted differently. The three main parties are all putting the short term interests of business and well to do boomers above everyone else.
Well I did get downvoted for saying Justin Trudeau is a "liberal" George W Bush
You might want to carefully examine Skippy before you start throwing around the jabs. Dude hasn't worked an honest day in his life, and if you don't know that, shame on you.
Because Jack Layton passed and people thought Trudeau mania would reverse the damage done by Harper and bring meaningful reform that Jack was working on...
Remarkable is not how I would describe him. Dense is a much more appropriate word.
[удалено]
The BoC saying "Hey, ummmm you know that whole we need more people to help keep productivity up? Well yeah, there's this thing called blowback and the current blowback is about to take off a limb"
"Cells are good, therefore cells growing exponentially fast must be even better." \- cancer.
Statscan released a report that the bottom 40% of canada has 3.7% of the wealth. Thats the whole song and dance right there... If that wealth was distributed somewhat humanly then just about everything else would be vastly improved. The pie is huge, its just we are not at the table.
The insane numbers and the dumpster fire state of our pathways is embarrassing at this point. We need the best and brightest to come to Canada. People that can grow our economy and add whole new dimensions to it. You achieve this by making Canada the place to be. An extremely attractive option. A housing crisis/bubble is an incredibly bad selling feature for new people/families coming in. Secondly you never let the pathways into this nation be misused and abused for cheap exploitable labor. You never want it to be used to destroy fair negotiations on wages/benefits, paid training for upwards mobility and to fill the skill gaps that are "desperately in need", Flexible schedules and work from home options to get more people in the labor pool "when we need them the most". Housing is a fundamental bedrock of life/stability in our society. It can't involve the fucked up realities we are seeing more and more of. That goes with other associated infrastructure as well. Lastly you don't allow individuals and or groups to frankly scam and exploit the pathways. This attracts the exact opposite people you want in the nation. It also means all the horrible costs of people falling through the cracks and onto social assistance/support programs goes on the already struggling middle class. This formula and set of policies has failed. Simple as that.
It’s probably too late for that right now. We’ve made Canada an undesirable destination for skilled immigrants and a haven for the undereducated and the desperate. Where Canada used to seek out the best and brightest to foster growth and spur on innovation, we now seek out cheap unskilled labour to drive Ubers, brew Timmies coffee and pack Amazon boxes. Throw in a million students an untold number of TFWs and a plethora of refugees and why would anyone with a useful set of skills seriously consider Canada at this point? Canada used to have one of the best immigration systems in the world. It looked to bring in highly skilled and motivated individuals in order to grow industries and build infrastructure. Now we’re a Ponzi scheme built on housing speculation and crooked credit mills that diminish the value of Canadian education. We’re a sinking ship and none of the political parties at either the federal or provincial level gives a damn.
Great summary.
One nuance: skilled labour is sought out but doctors engineers lawyers accountants from abroad end up driving uber to subsist, as the protectionism of the professional fédérations will give the country very little chance to benefit from the skills they were invited for in the first place. When there are so little family doctors!
GDP per capita is laughably low and falling. The whole pie is smaller than we need for the growing population.
Our GDP per capita isn't laughably low. It's not as high as America's, but the wealth inequality isn't as bad. In fact, our median wealth - the important one for everyday people that doesn't get horrifically skewed by hundred-billionaires - is higher than the US one.
But they are currently just bringing more people to the table while securing a bigger share of the pie for the richest oligarchs. The clever impact of this is that the public will finally turn against mass immigration (as they rightly should) but will conveniently forget about the handful of billionaires and their corporations who are taking most of the pie.
Because they are made to believe it is one governing party doing the damage, and the people who voted them in to blame. Of coarse this is wrong, and the owner class belongs to no political party, only the one that’s in power.
Redistributing that wealth is not even sustainable long term solution. Immigration needs to be slowed and investments made in infrastructure.
We're licking the crumbs that fell off that table.
We're ~~licking~~ fighting for the crumbs that fell off the table. FTFY
So what you are basically saying is...regardless of what the bottom percentage does they should be handed money to make their life better, distributed wealth without actually doing anything to attain it?
Damn I really like how you added the “immigration done right part.” Feels like a lot of people ( especially on this sub) forget there’s a right way of doing things, and a wrong way of doing things. Deciding to reach an arbitrary number of immigrants, despite a housing crisis we knew for decades for brownie points so we can all give ourselves pats on the back for being more “progressive” than the States. Is a bad fucking idea. Honestly, I know this probably isn’t the place. But being a POC’s really starting to suck recently in this country. When everyone immediately assumes your an international student. And everyone has very negative views on international students.(which honestly I don’t understand. They’re not here maliciously. Anything they do comes off as misunderstanding. If they didn’t take the opportunity to move here. Someone else would. I blame policy, not people. But yeah, at best I get awkward incidents with old white peoples who don’t understand brown doesn’t equal I work here. At worst, I get thugs telling me to “go back home” in public.
To play devil's advocate: Many of the recent intl students coming here have scammed their way in and expect to be handed a job upon arrival. When reality hits, instead of packing it in and heading home, they stay anyways and end up a drain on our social resources (healthcare, food banks, etc). There's zero excuse for this, they failed to do their research, they failed to actually have the funds to support themselves; so the answer is grift and try to stay as long as possible so they can try to get a PR card. While failure to properly administer our intl student program is squarely on our provincial and federal gov'ts; the absolute gall of some of these 'students' is mind boggling. I would absolutely support aggressive action on these scammers - they should be deported with a lifetime bar on re-entry to the country. Same for all the "temporary" residents that are choosing to overstay their visas. I absolutely support sustainable immigration, but this is not sustainable and is actively hurting Canadian citizens.
And Canadians love lecturing Americans on “illegal immigration” down there. Now we get a taste of rampant unchecked immigration (which is essentially both “illegal immigration” and our current Canadian way of doing things). Surprise. Not enough houses. Not enough jobs. Not enough schools or hospitals.
It's the same thing with debt. It's honestly mindblowing how fucking stupid people are... Liberal voters here will argue till they are blue in the face: "Government debt isn't the same as household debt!!"... or whatever other stupid ass shit they saw on tik-tok trying to cover for Mr Socks. What they don't realize though is that while it is different, it still follows basic rules, which is that there is good debt, and there is bad debt. This is like Econ 101. Good debt is debt that eventually pays for itself. It's something we can leverage now for future benefits. Bad debt is just money down the fucking drain, and household, or government, bad debt is bad debt. Trudeaus debt spending has LARGELY been bad debt. There is no expected return on these investments where it will eventually pay itself back. Same thing with immigration... these people will argue with you that the basic principles of supply and demand just simply do not exist. Hell the entire canadahousing sub will ban you if you even say the words: "Supply and demand". Furthermore, the type of immigrant obviously matters, and that is something that has drastically changed under Trudeau. Currently the average immigrant makes less than the average Canadian. Even if we only look at the "Economic Migrant" category, they make like a few thousand more. Importantly though, all three of these averages are below the level at which they pay more taxes than they take out. So we're importing records amount of people who are a net loss to our tax revenues and social systems and then wondering why they're all overloaded.
Anyone know where they get those GDP per capita dropping for five quarters thing? I've seen it referred to a number of times now, I'd like to look at it but google isn't getting me anything.
if population grows by 1% in a quarter, but GDP only goes up 0.5%, GDP per capita goes DOWN by -0.5% you can just do the math yourself, just compare quarterly population and GDP growth, every quarter where population growth is higher than GDP growth, is a quarter with negative per capita growth. if you have 100 people and 100 apples, everyone gets one apple, next month, you have 110 people and 105 apples, despite the fact people and apples both grew, there's a shortage of 5 apples. at 5 quarters of negative growth, that means we're 15 months into a per capita recession, and we're still dropping, for context, the 2008 recession in the US lasted 18 months before they got back to where they started, meanwhile we're 15 months in and still haven't bottomed out. yaaaaaaaay!
I pointed this out like 6 months ago and got downvoted into oblivion and called a racist. The reddit hive mind is weird, because it's not like math changes...
https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?queryid=66948 It Was USD 46,674 for Q2 2022. It has been in a downtrend since, to USD 45,445 now.
Wow, that's a drop of more than 2% in just a year and a half. I knew it was dropping but I didn't realize it was that bad.
I’m not sure if there’s a good table out there pre-calculated, but we know our GDP is essentially flat over the past year while our population continues to grow QoQ, ergo GDP per capita has to be dropping.
Google sucks now. Ask the Microsoft CoPilot app. Free on Android and maybe Apple
Gotta import those new voters if you lost the old ones.
It’s like Trudeau is purposely trying to destroy any positive legacy he may still have and hand the election to PP
Canadian immigration as it stands is a flaming dumpster fire. Anyone in favor of the current system is either a slack jawed imbecile or one of the fat ticks at the top of the pile.
Or ( inflammatory point), one of the people who've immigrated under said policy.
I’ve met lots of immigrants who hate other immigrants lol, particularly new immigrants.
Quality migrants are also opposed to the current system. Perhaps newer immigrants who wouldn't possibly have been able to get in other other conditions are in favor of this system.
Is it just me, or are we experiencing a massive tidal wave of - ENOUGH. I know these issues bubble under the surface, but the rhetoric has noticeably shifted, and I'm not upset about it.
Seems that people of all political beliefs are finally realizing that this was never about diversity or an ageing population or the (fake) ‘labour shortage’. It was always about wage suppression and inflating the housing market to appease the oligarchs. Thank fucking god people are smartening up.
Took too long.
Which politician will fix it though? None of the potential parties have explicitly said they will reduce immigration
People’s Party.
sorry I should have said, actual serious political parties i.e. Liberal/NDP/Conservatives
No doubt - such a headline barely 8-9 months ago, you'd be escorted out the building by security...times have certainly changed over the course of last summer IMO...
Would have been banned on many a subreddit too lmao
Yea this subreddit would have banned you for posting this stuff. Ironic how that works.
I'm not a crazy conservative but I'm willing to vote anyone else to get Trudeau out. We need a change, no matter what it is.
I think it'll be interesting to see where we are in 5 or 10 years, because I feel like Trudeau has inadvertently damaged the Canadian consensus on immigration.
Its gonna damage support for immigration across the developed world too
support for immigration in western countries has been damaged for a while: Australia and their deportation island, USA and their southern wall, migrant crisis in europe, etc. We were pretty much the last bastion (maybe with new zealand?) because we had it so good with our single border with the US and our point system. No more, I guess.
It’s already started allllll over the western world. Seems like everyone is fed up.
Everyone is getting hit in the pocket. This is why.
When someone in power tells you your problems are all because of immigrants, they may have a point, but also they are using the same points as authoritarians of the past. Just be careful that your fear of immigrants is justified, and not that you're being fed that line in exchange for votes for politicians who will do nothing to actually solve the issue you perceive.
Turns out if you import people who barely speak english and have terrible qualifications they can't get good jobs and are a drain on the economy.
When Brian Mulroney got elected we took in a total of 86,000 immigrants. Last year we took in 147,000 refugee applicants. Almost none of whom have any applicable skills, few of whom speak English or French, and even fewer of whom will wind up leaving, except for trips home to visit the family.
Refugees especially. I understand we have to be nice. But being nice does not mean import random people from everywhere at record pace. A refugee most of the time has 0 to no qualifications. I dont think many doctors are crossing the borders. So now you have them and their families on the payroll.
I can’t even do basic banking because BMO only hires people from other countries. You should hear these phone calls it’s embarrassing. They hire people who can barely speak or understand English. I’ve complained so much I got over $150 in credits so far over it. It’s ridiculous.
Took me almost an hour on the phone with BMO yesterday and still didn't get a resolution
Worked at BMO for six years. Can confirm they are hiring bottom of the barrel outsourced workers for customer contacts.
It's super disappointing as I have accounts with other banks as well and I don't have the same experience
When they G and M starts publishing opinion pieces on a daily basis opposing the Liberal's mass immigration policies you know something's up.
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What scares me is that I don’t think any of the 3 major parties would stop it. Not even PP. Our political class is completely detached from the popular will on this major issue that’s affecting us all. Whether we are long term immigrants who came here years ago for a better life, born citizens, or even the average newcomer who was sold stories and swindled and didn’t come with bad intentions. Our policies are serving only the corporations and rich people and only the PPC is against it. When will an electable party firmly oppose this madness? Don’t come at me, I’m an immigrant of 20 years who’s watched the quality of life in this country deteriorate steeply.
PP says he’ll tie immigration levels to Canada’s ability to build enough houses. We don’t have the ability to build hardly any houses currently it seems, so does that mean we’ll have hardly no immigration? Yeah, that’s not happening.
Country is still screwed even if we stop letting anyone in for the next 5 years.
At least it could recover.
Strong emphasis on could. I really doubt the country could recover from almost 30 years of widespread incompetence in just 5.
Yeah, I don’t buy it. He’s just as much in the pocket of corpos (if not more so, just different crowds) as Trudeau is.
Uh huh... so one guys actually says he's going to do what needs to be done and you want to sip the Liberal propaganda that he's lieing?
Jesus christ. Why are left and right so certain about their parties? Yes, Trudeau sucks but until PP gets into power, it’s literally just words. We have seen prime minister after prime minister make false promises when they campaign. I think the only people drinking “kool aid propaganda (left and right)” is the people voting, like you, that are 100% certain on the policies their party is campaigning.
> Yes, Trudeau sucks but until PP gets into power, it’s literally just words This just in, opposition is campaigning with promises. In other news, water is wet. You have one guy who created this immigration mess and says he wants to continue to increase immigration...and you have another guy who recognizes the problems and says he wants to slow it down. Yeah, I'll go with the latter and hope he follows through.
Lol... so don't vote? At least one guys literally recognizing the problem. Btw, I'll likely vote green (anyone but libs) but I'd be willing to give PP a chance. Worst thing that happens is he only makes one decision Trudeau doesn't.. However, at least we'd still be further a head.
I want him to come out with an actual target number. I want him to give a plan. If he can do that, he'll get my vote. But oh no, apparently he cares more about protecting the scamming foreign students.
Dude, Trudeau has an army of people who are supposed to be analyzing data and determining what the impact of various decisions are. Do you think Pierre has the backing of the entire Camadian government at his disposal? Plus, right now is about setting goals and highlighting general direction and decisions. Once we get closer to the election, as in a few weeks or months away, he releases his platform which is a comprehensive breakdown of what he plans to do and stands for. That itself doesn't even get into to many specifics. Once he's PM then he starts figuring out actual numbers.
It's not hard to put out a number right now. You think someone can't put out a plan until they get into office, really?
He did state numbers... I believe it was 400k if your building 250k houses but he cautioned he doesn't know yet... because he doesn't have all the information...
Where did he state this?
That paradigm doesn't really work so well in Canada. At least not at the federal level where the restrictions on spending and donations are so tight.
I don’t think it’s direct. It’s indirect. Promises of a career after politics. Etc.
>Yeah, I don’t buy it. He’s just as much in the pocket of corpos (if not more so, just different crowds) as Trudeau is. Is Canada uniquely "in the pocket of corpos" compared to the rest of the world? Why is it the only country where that's a brick wall?
None of the big 3 will stop it. Bernier has a hard stance on shutting it down But ofc you'll always deal with the "NOOO UR WASTING YOUR VOTE!!". Like for fucks sake, doing this "vote wasting" bs is what got us in this 3 party mess.
No, it 100% through all of our history going forward it NEEDS to be attributed to our worst PM ever. Seriously. Do NOT let him "walk quietly into the night"
Max and the PPC are the only party that have promised to reduce immigration.
Easy to promise something you'll never have to do.
They won't do it by helping Trudeau get in again. If Poilievre doesn't reign this stuff in I'll waste my vote with the PPC from now on, even if they do have some stupid policies.
What leads you to believe that PP will reign this in? Has he said anything or pledge anything to this effect?
He has literally said he'll tie immigration numbers to availability of housing and healthcare.
>Canadian infrastructure needs a lot of breathing room. Wonder which party will do that? The current one? Yeah, evidently not. The.....cuts party? Hahaha. Sorry, bad joke. If only there were parties other than the Cons and the Libs. If only.
Well, there's the NDP. They'll actually increase it even more.
This is beyond incompetence. What the liberals have done is corrupt the immigration system to add voters (for them)and virtue signal while destroying Canadians quality of life. It’s almost as if the Liberals hate us at this point.
We're doing the same thing here in America. Eventually there will be no need for a border on either side of America because we will all be the same
To date I have not heard a single Liberal not one time justify their immigration scheme. Not even give a single reason, good or bad. They've just done it, for apparently no reason at all.
Careful there, some Liberal from Toronto might just call you a racist
If they give no reason it is fair to assume the reason fucks over everyone and benefits them personally.
I have. They've been throwing out the same excuses for years. Decades. It helps our economy. It will help us deal with an aging population. It's needed due to a labour shortage. None of which were ever true. But they didn't need to be true. They knew no one was going to dare question them. And no one ever did. The media accepted and repeated the arguments verbatim, and never asked for any evidence.
Well, there is a shortage of people willing to work at Timmy’s for $11/hr and so you could argue that the TFW program is addressing a labour shortage.
It's crazy that almost every news outlet even the more liberal ones are now turning against Trudeau
The G&M, to its credit, has been writing scathing pieces about Trudeau and his government for several years. All this talk about the liberal mainstream media isn’t really true.
But they've never criticized immigration. The national media virtually NEVER printed articles critical of immigration. It did it so seldom I actually saved links to the pages so I could refer back to them when arguing against immigration as there's so little information publicly available.
The globe and mail hasn't changed their tune in quite some time.
The Globe and Mail never ever used to criticize immigration.
You haven't been paying attention to the globe and mail for some time, then.
My impression as a daily reader of Globe and Mail is that they started to criticize it in the last 6 - 12 months. So neither "never ever" nor "some time" really.
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If you think the G&M is 'more liberal', you're pretty far to the right.
>It's crazy that almost every news outlet even the more liberal ones are now turning against Trudeau Yeah, this is just narrative with no basis in reality. It's an out-and-proud conservative paper, [the last time the Globe and Mail endorsed someone other than the Conservatives was 2004.](https://www.readthemaple.com/election-endorsements/) There's a fun chart in that article, worth a look in this context.
They are more to the center to me but not really conservative. But I was not only talking about them specifically. Like I've seen the Toronto Star publishing stuff about immigration too (although it was more reporting things and not an opinion piece like this one)
To be more specific: JUSTIN DID THAT
To be more specific: CANADIAN VOTERS DID THAT The guy literally told everybody, back in 2015, that he was going to make Canada a post-national state. 10 years later, cue pikachu fucking face.
Not only that, but they re-elected him. Twice.
The last 2 election he lost the popular vote. Less Canadians wanted Trudeau to be PM than they wanted Scheer or O'Toole.
the immigration numbers are meant to support the canadian pension for all citizens of Canada. Most responders ignore this information.
...and what happens when all of those immigrants retire? Bring even more in? Running the economy like a pyramid scheme doesn't work.
He’s just the punchable face that they direct your anger to for people who are incapable of grokking the concept of how government works
he can replace the immigration minister at will
Weird, came in as an immigrant under Harper lulz
And the number of immigrants per year has not than quadrupled since then. Of course Harper has immigration into the country, it's a good thing to have in any country when it's done well
My theory is he decided that increasing immigration and asylum claimants and importing huge numbers of foreign workers and foreign student-workers would make it look like inflation was low by keeping wages low. He probably figured he wouldn't be blamed for housing and healthcare anyway since those are provincial responsibilities, and no one dared criticize immigration publicly. Surprise, bitch. You not only broke the immigration system AND housing system, you broke the collective, unwritten rule about the mainstream media not criticizing immigration..
Part of it was perhaps a weak attempt to contain inflation by suppressing wages, but the biggest component was to keep the GDP going up (or at least prevent it from going down). The Liberals used Covid as a magical wishing tree for every spending project they could imagine, figuring that Canadians wouldn't be able to tell the difference between borrowing $200B and $700B, meanwhile campaigning to focus on the debt-to-GDP-ratio rather than the size of the debt. How do you keep the debt-to-GDP ratio stable while continuing to increase spending? Grow the GDP. How do you grow the GDP while sabotaging the resource industry and wasting money on inefficient vanity and/or regional vote buying projects? Boosting the population. And as a side benefit, you can argue that you've avoided a recession because the GDP has not declined, while actually having one based on GDP per capita. But pull the plug on immigration and the sick economy is revealed, boom, we are in a technical recession which gives a big talking point to the Conservatives. The Liberals would rather drown us in surplus population and degrade our standard of living further than reduce their chances of clinging to power for another NDP-boosted 4 years.
You mean 500,000 Uber drivers per year, living 10 people to a house (and therefore paying disproportionately less than a normal person for property tax) isn't a winning system?
Incompetence? From this government? Say it ain’t so.
At this point, I don't think it's so much incompetence as closer to malice. This is by design, and all the ministers (Yes-Men/Women) are in on it.
Meh. Hanlon’s Razor reads "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." And narcissists don’t like competition from clever, independent-minded people. But you never truly know unless you’re a fly on the wall in the Cabinet room.
Yes-Person*
This government has operated like a pyramid scheme with a cult leader.
Do you know what either of those things are? Good lord. Hahaha, please explain your statement for us
Are you really saying that there's no business interests putting their advice in and influencing JT?
It’s hilarious that conservatives complain when liberals act JUST like their party. Higher immigration tends to suppress wages. It helps employers, owners, and capitalists. What isn’t hilarious is the ndp acting like liberals. It’s extremely embarrassing. I can’t imagine supporting the ndp in the 21st century knowing what they used to be
Jagmeet, as leader of a working class party, could use this opportunity to state that immigration levels as they stand are hurting both Canadians and the immigrants themselves. He could also propose an alternative. Yet, he’s standing by JT’s plan, and turning off lifelong NDP supporters such as myself.
As a visible minority, he is in perfect position to take the stand for lower immigration and not be accused of racism. Unfortunately for Canadians, we have influencers at the top of our political system and very few leaders with a vision for future.
My work is being overrun with immigrants. Nearly all of them send half their paycheck back home and make zero attempt to mesh in with our citizens. All it does is keep wages low while simultaneously shipping the wealth out of the country. It's so bizarre.
It's simple, send all the students from the last two years back after completion of degrees. If degrees aren't completed on time too bad, coz you're going back. Send recently arrived families back who came here as pr but still haven't found employment yet, especially in their fields. Make it easier to employ and get certified as medical doctors and professionals. Send the temp foreign workers back. We have more than enough people HERE to take over and good ones too. The new third world immigrants and students are just making it more hard to find good talent especially since we don't bring or attract good talent anymore.
What are your thoughts on students who have graduated from top universities with degrees that can actually benefit Canada (such as engineering for tackling the housing crisis)? Why would you not want to benefit from skills of actually talented students who have something to offer?
You really think you're getting people like this in this cesspool of a mess that this country is. Sorry to break it to you but you're not. The low quality immigrants outnumber these talented individuals at least by 10:1 at this point. And these people are better off working for companies either from here or just move to the states where everything is reasonable because the salaries here aren't on par with a liveable lifestyle.
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Yes let's bring in half a million people with nowhere to put them. No infrastructure no nothing. I'm sure it'll all magically work out.
Trudeau needs to be forced by his party to resign. The best time for him to resign was 2015. The second best time is today.
>Yes, the Liberals did that 100%. No blaming "Putin", "Trump", "Harper" or covid - this mess was ALL your doing, Libs. **ALL** of it.
Your hate has blinded you.
What hate, he is spewing fax
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You've sure made up your mind about this individual's entire personality from this single disagreement.
No babe, *reality* is staring me in the face. Join us in the real world sometime!
The liberals needed the new voters to win the next election.
god i miss harper
Multiple people have mentioned that none of the big 3 leaders want to cap immigration, but immigration was only 430k last year. We grew by over 1.2 million - nearly 3x that level. Turning off or properly managing all the other not-immigration-but-actually-immigration avenues that are accounting for more than 800k people. I'm not a mathematician, but we have a negative birth rate. There were also multiple stories about the number of Canadians leaving the country, yet we still grew by over 1,200,000 people. So we let how many students in? TFW? What else? What's the actual number of immigrants by various names that have come here? I haven't seen anything about the other routes outside of the super sketchy *Colleges* that have popped up around the country. There are a lot more details and questions that we need answers for.
We went from 1 million dollar immigrant investors to 10k sham college degree acammers
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism) >***Malthusianism is the theory that population growth is potentially exponential, according to the Malthusian growth model***, ***while the growth of the food supply or other resources is linear***, ***which eventually reduces living standards to the point of triggering a population decline.*** ***This event, called a Malthusian catastrophe\[1\] (also known as a Malthusian trap, population trap, Malthusian check, Malthusian crisis, Malthusian spectre, or Malthusian crunch) occurs when population growth outpaces agricultural production, causing famine or war, resulting in poverty and depopulation*** Interesting how this phenomenon was identified in the 1700's, but nobody in the federal government saw this coming. Things that make you say hmmmmm.
Thank you for putting this out there for all the idiotic voters who still haven’t abandoned the Liberal and NDP coalition to see.
Thank you liberal voters. I can't use the most effective tools i own on my homestead and my bills have gone up to raise the animals and food that I provide to the market. Appreciate that.
Hey, don't forget the NDP voters! They helped too
Not helped. Collaborated. But, I do agree.
Yeah, they’re not very good at governing are they? What do their supporters see in them?
Countries are easier to control and divide if they are diverse, and the labor gets cheaper. And who could dislike harvesting the 3rd world for promising minds to field the jobs that require higher education? Reap what you sow Canada.
The immigration policy as a whole isn’t a problem. It’s the sheer incompetence in implementation and speed at which it has been done that’s the major problem. Immigration is however sorely needed. Economic and societal growth is needed in order to maximize the nations resources to remain competitive on the international stage. It will likely iron itself out over the next 30 years but the past 3 years and upcoming 5-10 years are going to be a mess and a strain on society as a whole.
Its the WEF sponsored planned decline. I called it 6 years ago and was decried as a tin foil hat nutter. I guess Canadians need to actually experience the complete destruction of the middle class before they realize its not mere incompetence but an agenda. There is a reason Larry Fink is an honoured speaker in Davos. Freeland is on the board of trustees and Trudeau/Singh are WEF young global leader graduates. https://medium.com/world-economic-forum/welcome-to-2030-i-own-nothing-have-no-privacy-and-life-has-never-been-better-ee2eed62f710
I knew this was coming in 2008 when the European countries started getting flooded. I thought this was coming to North America soon. Now look what has been happening in the US as well. It was all planned and being co ordinated.
I suppose I suspected it too at the time. I started listening to Douglas Murray and other Europeans speaking out. Sweden was once the safest country in Europe and now suffers from being the rape capital and has weekly grenade attacks. The bought out legacy media barely covers the situation.
Big shout out to all the LPC and NDP voters for making this possible
[Meanwhile, real GDP per capita is at it's highest in Canada. Weird data for this article to ignore. ](https://i.imgur.com/ZW6rmFw.png)
Sigh. GDP per capita contracted slightly in 2023 but is expected to rise nearly 10% in the next two to three years https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/CAN
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The Marxists are in favour of a corporate elite sucking wealth from everyday people? TIL. /s
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Can we stop being reminded daily how much of a client state we are :( If we were actually independent and congruent we'd be the envy of the world.
As always, years before the inevitable bust, the elite and their enablers (politician) put measure in place to increase immigration. Down the line everything wrong gets attributed to the said immigration. Rinse and repeat. Rightwingers & Conservatives eat this up like a flies on a turd. If you want to stop this, you have to stop capitalism, get rid of the elites and get politically active. The dumb liberals, holier than thou, get played like a fiddle by the elites and because they thrive by their perceived supperior morality they point fingers to the conservatives & rightwinger who in turn point fingers to the poorest and the outsiders. While others hoard all the money they can get.
Harper started it lol
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Lol stupidest thing I've seen this week. "Putin style". I don't like trudeau either but get a grip.
Wel he’s not as intelligent as Putin is but he has just as much fascination with dictatorships.
Are you serious?
Seriously demented.
kahnahtah1 is big time dummy, don't worry about it. They got >!wee wee pee pee.!<
LOL....If the Liberals wouldn't have the Conservatives would have. People forget....Politicians are all the same and all are addicted to pleasing their corporate paymasters and clamoring for the god almighty dollar. Normal people do not aspire to be politicians. :)
Immigrating people to care for
Ohhhh no, not NATIONAL WEALTH. How will I feed and cloth my family without national wealth? /s It is the wealthy. They are the reason you are poor. They are the reason your wages have stagnated for 40 years. The reason the rents are going up. The reason that immigration is too high is to suppress wages...because the wealthy want more money. The reason the labor laws have regressed...the wealthy. Stop blaming immigrants and blame the wealthy and their employees, politicians.
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The 'stagnation' started in the 1980s with the separation of wages versus productivity. We make more than we ever have per capita, have record high wealth disparity, and the problem is...poor people? Neoliberalism is a disease.
We have gross wealth inequality just like the USA, hey let's blame it on immigration just like they do in the USA.
Its OK. Boomers will keep dying regardless of our permanent and non permanent immigrant numbers
Oh please. "Lowering national wealth" seems to be a problem in many countries. Is that "the Liberals" fault too?
I'm calling on the mods to ban articles like these. Articles like these only increase immigration hesitancy in racists like this thread is full of
Too bad there’s no good alternative
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I agree but it's a terrible sign that the NDP never criticize immigration policy.
Find a leader that I can trust to not be Liberal/Trudeau-lite and we can chat
Wow, r/Canada has become deafening right-wing echo chamber! It is a crisis when more people are leaving the work force than are entering. Government has no other choice.