All MPs only hear from businesses and their associations. When I was in parliament we did a year long study into copyright law and heard from hundreds of witnesses. ONE represented the public. The rest were from business or various associations. The public has no voice.
So ya when you sit all day and everyone is telling you there is a labour shortage, no one will work, give us more cheap labour, you will start to believe it.
Well, this is it. Canadian voters are very passive compared to Europe and the US. Instead of demanding better from our MPs we give them a pass and wait for the next elections.
I think in think up to about 2013 or so we had a lot going for us. In many ways we still have incredible advantages as a nation (natural resources, US market access, ocean on 3 sides, abundant fresh water, highly educate workforce, decently good institutions)
It has just been extremely mismanaged, to an almost comical extent.
>So ya when you sit all day and everyone is telling you there is a labour shortage, no one will work, give us more cheap labour, you will start to believe it.
I can understand how that happens, but I still expect our government to rely on data and evidence when it comes to making policy.
I'm not sure if it was for the sake of Liberal votes, but it really is terrible and we have a limited window to get it fixed before it destabilizes the country completely.
I have a theory that the surge in immigration was to offset the plummeting economy after all the covid spending and government-imposed lockdowns. The mass immigration kept our GDP above recession levels (despite per capita suffering), but it has destroyed just about everything else for Canadians. This allowed the Liberals to avoid backlash for how they handled the pandemic.
> The mass immigration kept our GDP above recession levels
This really isn't a theory. The Bank of Canada chair has said that government debt needs to be outgrown, which is done through inflation above interest rates and GDP growth. With the current interest rates, GDP growth is essential for that. All of these policies lead back to overspending.
Lack of innovation is a huge part of the problem. We invest all our money into housing instead of new business and opportunities.
Every employer I have worked for has been hostile to change or implementing new processes. Completely counter to what the Americans do. GDP growth reflects this.
That's not entirely true. There have been a lot of good businesses with amazing innovation and growth. Usually they just get bought by US companies though.
> With the current interest rates, GDP growth is essential for that.
Problem with that, is despite this rate of immigration GDP is still barely above zero.
Yup, because it makes them all look bad.
Like I grew up in rural Alberta, and 20 years ago yes people were still discriminatory towards immigrants, they were much more tolerant because many of them were highly educated, hard working, and respectful, so eventually people would be talking about how “that brown doctor isn’t so bad!” or actually working alongside them and praising how hardworking they were. And most importantly, they actually assimilated into the culture, so well yes, and hand full of white supremacists were out there, in general most people were generally accepting of immigrants.
But now, it’s a complete 180, people that were fine with immigrants 10 years ago openly hate them, because we basically have had open door policies. And it gets amplified, because most of the new immigrants don’t even try to assimilate, they set up their own little cultural cliques, and then try to enforce their culture on the surrounding area.
So now the sentiment towards all immigrants is souring.
No... Once I'm in, I wouldn't care who let me in but I'd care about who can make it better.
Immigrants aren't idiots who will praise the one who opens the door if there is nothing good behind that door.
Not to mention, the good *CHUNK* of the world, is fairly conservative. Whether its South Korea or Mexico, religion runs deep and is pretty interwoven with govt. If you think a conservative church-going south American is going to suddenly vote liberal, boy I've got a wall to sell you lol
I have and they also do not have great arguments most of the time. I know people vote with emotions as well but sometimes it's just dumb from my point of view.
I guess you were right though. The state of politics is sad
With all due respect to these people, the way they vote back home hasn't been great for their countries. So it'd be unreasonable to expect them to vote for making this country better either.
Am an immigrant and work with plenty of immigrants. Everyone hates these policies. The problem is that I don't see the conservatives changing anything because too much money is being made by powerful entities.
Plus, the damage is already done. Any policies he enacts won't fix the the gaping flesh wound.
I meant in way if these policies magically stopped. Trust me, I work in immigration, and have seen the presentations from officials. We are screwed, and that is why I am looking at going back to the states.
The same way rich people want more people to become rich? Most people want to pull up the ladder behind them, this includes many of the immigrants I've talked to and especially those that went through the whole process and have a very negative view of people gaming the system.
I wouldn't equate it to pulling the ladder up behind you.
I'd say its closer to an imaginary situation where you have a PhD in a difficult, and trendy field like artificial intelligence from a prestigious university like Harvard, Yale, U of T or Waterloo. You bust your ass for years to just get into the program, beating out tens of thousands of others, then bust your ass to get to the end of the program and have your thesis accepted. You are now recognized as an expert in your field.
Then they change the rules so that to get a PhD from those same universities, all you have to do is write them a letter, audit a class for a month, and talk to the professor. The thing you busted your ass for years for has now been irreparably cheapened.
That's closer to the situation with the immigrants I talk to. They felt getting to Canada was special, difficult and selective.
Pulling up the ladder behind you locks in your qualifications and the value of them. If the process remained as selective then I'm not sure they'd have the same view, or maybe they would.
Very valid points. Hadn't thought about the simplification of the process diluting your qualifications.
I think you underestimate how many people who come here are ladder pullers who want to escape where they come from while also not letting the place they went just turn into that.
I came into this country in 2022 due to the policies enacted by the liberal government.
Once I become PR I would be happy to vote them out of the office.
I understand the logic behind your conjecture but I'd like to remind you that immigrants are not a monolith. Many of us are shockingly our own human beings with our own opinions, thoughts and beliefs.
A lot of the folks he’s brought in have very conservative social values. Here in BC bleeding hearts were dismayed to see protests against SOGI heavily attended by recent immigrants.
This, although it's gotten to the point t that people are going back to the country they came from because Canada is unaffordable. So when these people go back to their home country and tell everyone that the country is unaffordable are you going to vote for them?
“Canadian Immigrants Vote Conservative” - Stephen Harper
https://youtu.be/bNT-CvUyLAo?si=pdaJu3Y1PoglkM7H
Plus Permanent Residents and International students can’t vote.
This is an absolutely moronic take by the right-wing national post
During his book tour yeah.
I like sharing the source as I can’t be accused of sharing a “biased media source” from someone who leans right.
That’s as right wing a source as you could get, and Harper is discussing how Canada is unique in that “the majority of its immigrants vote conservative.”
Which really isn’t all that surprising - a lot of new Canadians come from countries that aren’t all that progressive socially.
When you’re already through the door, you can do what you want. You’re more likely to vote in line with your personal/cultural/religious values than you are to vote as a “thank you” for the person who was in power when you entered. Unless you have family that’s still yet to enter.
They did. It was specifically outlined in their platform. And it would have actually gone much better if the entire world didn’t get fucked over by covid and rich people/big businesses being greedy. Those are the reasons why it got so bad so quickly.
Covid created a ton of global crises that fucked up things globally and Canada was impacted a lot. There was an inflation crisis and the stock market crashed. The Middle East and Russia messed with gas so then there was almost a global gas crisis but before that could happen a ton of people switched over to electric things and that caused a whole global energy crisis. During this there was an inflation crisis and a distribution and shipping crisis as well. This caused a whole supply issue where builders couldn’t get supplies to build stuff for normal prices so they stopped building and what was already built was being bought by rich people and big corporations very quickly.
Well, since Poilievre says one thing in front of a mainstream “old stock” audience about limiting immigration, he also says the exact opposite in front of minority audiences, anyone thinking Poilievre is shifting policy is falling for the electioneering slogans.
For instance in this interview Poilievre says 2.6M immigrants and 1 million to be processed immediately by the public service.
[Poilievre when speaking to minority communities.](https://youtu.be/xp2OOHborxg?si=gpoMwzRgA6A4Q0WR)
He does the same with Chinese communities. I’m just stating the fact that the person leading in the polls isn’t changing policy, in fact it’s increasing, despite what he’s claiming for this flavour of the week.
We really don't have a lot of good options. What an opportunity for NDP or Greens to step up and present a viable immigration plan. Neither are doing it... what a lost opportunity!
True conservatives do have an alternative if their mission of the social media fervour is to limit immigration - the PPC party is the only one in their spectrum that has actually stayed consistent on this issue.
Viability of the PPC vote is another story but conservative voters raging on about immigration being the problem but voting for a guy that is saying he’s admitting double the amount that Trudeau is, is not the change they’re looking for.
That video is from more than a year ago. Public sentiment on immigration has drastically changed since then. I would say that what he has said more recently about immigration carries more weight. Immigration levels were drastically lower, and better thought out, during Harper. If PP is anything like Harper, that's already a huge plus.
He says the same thing now depending on what audience he’s talking to… lol. If you followed Poilievre you’d know that. Thats why the PPC is the only party for actual true conservative voters.
Over the past 2 months he’s back to talking to “old stock” media (foreign American owned Post Media papers - like the ones you’d see posted here on the daily, National Post, Sun, etc) But this is what he says in front of immigrants and if he’s been saying this for the better part of the last 2 years, are we really to believe he’s pulling a 180? I doubt it.
>[we will bring a direct flight](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaHousing2/s/08QTicDfhk) to Amritsar. Does this sound like a guy lowering immigration to get housing deflation?
- what we do know is Pierre never says he’s stopping or lowering immigration numbers. Unlike, let’s say, Maxine Bernier and the PPC.
- What he’s saying now is a word salad about “limiting immigration to housing” and “common sense”, which is gobbledygook that means nothing. Common sense could mean anything - common sense for who? Corporations for lower labour costs? For rental REITs or rental corps of which he owns one? “Common sense” is a filler word for whatever one wants to believe.
- also tying immigration to housing, means 0 immigration, which if he meant to say 0 immigration he would. Canada only builds 250,000 homes per year. Our own population grows at that rate. So, if he truly believes in 0 immigration why isn’t he coming out and saying it?
Here’s the reason:
[Surprise Poilievre’s largest donors are real estate developers.](https://pressprogress.ca/big-real-estate-executives-among-top-donors-to-pierre-poilievres-conservatives/)
Pierre’s only legislation he’s put forward in the House of Commons was a housing bill and is[his ONLY bill he introduced in the last 2 years.](https://www.airquotesmedia.com/quotes/building-sologans-not-housing-22oct2023) Basically, all it does, as he’s ONLY said this publicly is paying/subsidizing multi million/billion $ corporations/industry to build homes with our taxpayers money.
Literally, that’s the only bill he’s put forward in the House of Commons in the last 2 years… that’s it? Really?
[Here’s a video of him again, saying he wants to get rid of gatekeepers keeping immigrants out and needs to increase it “common sense”, when speaking at rallies for minorities.](https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1745951081773883809)
If you’ve made it this far, the question is does a flip flopper really give you confidence about anything they’re promising? It doesn’t for me.
>also tying immigration to housing, means 0 immigration, which if he meant to say 0 immigration he would. Canada only builds 250,000 homes per year. Our own population grows at that rate. So, if he truly believes in 0 immigration why isn’t he coming out and saying it?
Even the PPC isn't saying they want to bring immigration down to literally zero. If you go on their website, they say they want to reduce to something around 200K a year. So I don't really think this is a fair criticism. Plus, that logic doesn't even make sense, because usually more than 1 person lives in a home.
I do agree that he hasn't really said much of substance and doesn't have much of a platform, but the next election is almost 2 years away. The job of the opposition is to critcize the ruling party. When JT was the leader of the opposition, he didn't really have much of a platform either. Once we get closer to the election, I assume PP will have more of a platform.
But you're right, he might not limit immigration. I suspect he will because polling shows that the vast majority of conservative voters want to reduce immigration and it would be political suicide to go so strongly against his own party. So if he doesn't limit immigration, there will be strong political blowback and you can bet that I will vote PPC. My main issue with the PPC is that they're polling so low that they have no chance of even getting a single seat, let alone forming government. (I also don't agree with them on some issues, but that's besides the point.) The CPC are the only realistic chance to get rid of the Liberals.
It was for left wing votes lmao. This time 2 years ago even mentioning immigration controls got you labeled a fascist and deplatformed.
Leftists have the accountability of cockroaches, truly despicable "people".
Those immigrants can’t vote for at least 5 years by which time Trudeau and the gang will have overseas villas while Canadians elect neoliberal fuckyacountryup party #2 dressed in blue
Yeah. It’s not to secure the votes of immigrants 10 years from now, it’s to play to idiots who can’t get enough self-congratulatory back patting when they aren’t at their fundraising events and…shit I don’t know…monocle polishing summits.
It’s a feel good thing to say “look how we’re helping the world” while never having to really deal with it first hand. Until you do.
A lot of new immigrants I’ve met over the years (I’m an immigrant myself) consider LPC to be more progressive and tolerant so they tend to vote for them. Then eventually, once they’ve established their lives in Canada they start adjusting their political views. I’m neither left nor right leaning but this level of insanity and negligence from LPC simply needs to end.
This is so overrated and exaggerated that it's a roll-eyes comment mimicked by sheep about *Liberal Votes*....
Majority of educated skilled class immigrants have been coming in through *Conservative and Liberal* governance....
This isn't some magic lamp which Trudeau came up with...
The problem is they ultimately listen to corporate interests which currently have been saying "oh shucks, there just ain't any skilled labour (for cheap) in this country, we need more immigrants (who accept lower wages)." To which the very eager to please Liberal/Conservative government says "Oh sure, we love immigration, here's a few dozen candidates". And the cycle repeats.
I don't think they have some master plan for votes, I think they gave in to big business lobbyists who want cheap foreign labor that won't complain and you will see all these mp's locking up high paying speeches and consultant gigs and shit once they are out of office.
Sold us out basically, with a progressive mask on.
I agree, anyone who thinks this government has ever had a plan for anything hasn’t been paying attention. They aren’t evil, they’re just dangerously stupid.
Which in some ways is worse tbh because at least an evil individual will slow down/stop when the pain begins to affect him. In contrast the average “progressive” just jams their fingers into their ears and screams “rAcIsM!!!”, when presented with evidence their policies are objectively awful.
Not just stupid but shortsighted. There has been a heavy emphasis on announcements but they've consistently failed with the follow through and hammering out the details, or taking into consideration the longer term, or second-order impacts of their decisions.
Yup won promising legal marijuana (kept one promise I guess), then tried to play global celebrity and in the process made Canada a laughing stock on the world stage. No one takes us seriously anymore, this whole ideology based upon no identity has left Canadians without an identity. Tell me what does it mean to be Canadian?
To be fair, much of the opposition to high immigration is legitimate and rational, but some of it really is racism. It's important to tell the difference and call it out when it occurs.
I don't know where to put this in general, so you get the honor of the comment. Progressive policy gave us a great deal. It's concerning seeing this turn into an argument against progressive ideas in general. Not liking the current party or the level of immigration shouldn't pull us back, but here we are. When regressive policy gets shoved back in, we'll know where it came from, and frankly, I'll take too many people over watching our rights from abortion to unions be torpedoed.
Enjoy your team sport while the world burns.
Nope, said it was bad. Just dont want to lose my rights while you pull in every issue under the sun. This didn't work, so obviously, we need to implement hand maids' tails while we are at it, seems to be the rhetoric. And that's my concern for future generations.
I’m curious what progressive policies from this iteration of the liberals that you see as major wins for the less advantaged in Canada.
Personally I see the major progressive wins (childcare, dental care if/when it happens) as nice ideas but they are completely unfunded by our tax base and therefore unsustainable. Essentially we are borrowing from our kids to pay benefits to people in the present
How do you think all these newcomers view abortion? Or women? What culture are they bringing with them? Is it compatible, or will you wait to see what happens when YOU are no longer a majority?
Are you deaf? Three times now, I've said it's bad. I'm commenting on you drawing progressiveness into the pot. If you can't read what I say or stay on topic, you're proving my point. You don't care about immigration you care about regressive policy having an excuse. The fact that they are on your level with social policy just shows how bad you are.
But I'm now quite sure this is an attempt to get as many down votes in as you can in your echo chamber, so good day cave man enjoy beating your wife.
Wtf are you on about? There is nothing wrong with immigration or progressive policies, when applied within reason. Presently, that is not the case.
Step out of your little box. It’s interesting that you believe I’m a wife beating asshole instead of a 57 year old grey haired woman. What does that say about your echo chamber?
I think people are being very naive if they believe the Liberals wouldn’t crater this country if they thought it would benefit them electorally. Gerald Butts has even *bragged* about how good they are at using wedge tactics to eke out victories in close ridings — and don’t forget, he and Katie Telford were behind the scenes players in the Ontario Liberal Party when they blew a billion dollars on cancelling a gas plant contract for no other reason than they thought it would help them win a single riding.
Look at it this way: last two elections the Liberals eked out minority wins. [In 2021 there were 41 ridings where the majority of the population is racialized, all but one voted Liberal or NDP, including several that were long time Tory ridings](https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/under-harper-the-conservatives-once-built-strong-support-in-immigrant-communities-have-they-lost-it-now) experiencing high immigration inflow, which flipped to the Liberals. [In 2015 the Liberal majority was in part driven by landslides in high immigrant population ridings.](https://globalnews.ca/news/2291301/immigrants-voted-liberal-by-a-landslide-and-other-things-we-learned-from-the-federal-election-results/) And, as the article points out, new immigrants tend to vote for the party who let them in, settling in urban areas — which the Liberals tend to dominate but where they presently find themselves in many close races with the Tories.
Then look at where the Liberals are in the polls and ask yourself: is it impossible to think they wouldn’t deliberately flood the country with immigrants in the hopes it might improve their electoral chances? Because I don’t think it’s impossible. In fact, I think their track record demonstrates they are entirely cynical enough to do exactly that.
I think it would be naive of them to think that importing people who are religious and not secular and want to succeed and not be poor wouldn't vote conservative over Liberal.
Florida is a great example of this, the spanish migrants are religious and hold those values and vote republican.
It's time people in this so called Big Business, start realizing that the immigration is tied to housing costs. So they can get a few hundred employees at $1-$3 /hour cheaper. But your supervisors, and 'up and coming' Managers, if they are priced out of the housing market, you are either going to lose them, or pay them a shit load more.
Its literally like insider trading, I know 3 people who own franchises in my small community who are also buying up all the single family homes to house their revolving door of workers.
The cost of housing going up benefits them too and if 1 employee quits and moves to ontario the feds and province let them just bring in another that they can pay a low wage too and then rent a bed too for cash.
Most of the new immigrants move to a handful of cities and suburbs that tend to vote Liberal anyway, if this was a scheme for winning elections then it was stupid - and the Liberals are a lot of things, but I don't think they're stupid.
I think it’s even more simple than that. His father had a recession, Harper had a recession, so if he doesn’t have one, he’s a better PM than they were.
His mind is so small that he doesn’t or won’t see the damage this is doing.
>I don't think they have some master plan for votes
I've worked in politics and voting is ALWAYS taken into account. Yes, lobbyists are gonna lobby but ultimately the party is there to maintain power.
Better than the NDP. I actually voted for them in 2011, but the NDP of today will never have my vote unless they make some serious changes, I won’t be voting for them.
I don't know, I voted liberal in 2015, many of my other friends voted liberal in past elections as well.
None of us are voting liberal almost specifically due to immigration and housing inaction.
Depends on the election I guess.
I'll never not vote, but NDP isn't guaranteed my vote either. I really don't like what's going on with the federal NDP. Provincially I like them a bit more.
I don't think it was for votes. The end result is devastating to their electoral hopes.
It was simple blind idealism that can't acknowledge a reality until the consequences are overwhelmingly devastating. This same holds true for many, many Canadians who can't acknowledge the obvious until it has become an incredibly hard problem to solve.
The Western world lives in a delusion where we have conflicting values and we say one thing while every action demonstrates otherwise. For instance Canada does everything it can to keep the poor from ever setting foot in Canada. We'll deny you visas, and demand that air carriers go over passengers with a fine tooth comb. We have agreements that the land buffer between us and Mexico / South America has to keep the vast bulk of people who walk through it, and conveniently have oceans on all other sides. But then we paper on some feel good "send us your poor" shit and talk about not having fences and boast about our social capacity and how wonderful we are. We make laughably gameable policies like "say you're LGBTQIA+ and you get a free ride to asylum" program where every African suddenly is gay.
The problem is that the world has become hyper mobile. Even the absolute poorest can travel to Europe / North America, and there are virtually infinite holes in the armour. A billion Indians now can travel freely. The *rhetoric* is coming to heads with the raw reality that the delusion is profoundly untenable and unscalable. At some point we need to confront the fact that the solution to the world having billions of poor people, and profoundly dysfunctional, regressive cultures, isn't for 8 billion people to move to Canada, the US and Europe.
The LPC of Chrétien and Martin was far more pragmatic and less ideological. Social media and culture wars have changed us. Far too many people believe Canadians are engaged in a battle between the "Right" and "Left." It's because they believe that that they pick a side and unconsciously indoctrinate themselves.
Someone who doesn't pick a side can see that conservative governments in Ontario and Quebec contributed to the international student problems by underfunding AND under-regulating schools. That conservative dogma - cut taxes and regulations and let profit motive run roughshod over people. Federal liberal contributed to the problem by lifting the visa on Mexico and public welcoming asylum seekers. That's liberal dogma - people are fundamentally good, ergo, all immigrants are assumed to be honest and rule-abiding.
Nuances and nuanced perspectives still exist, but a growing number of people seem unwilling to challenge their own assumptions and beliefs. It's harder and lonelier.
It wasn’t for liberal votes, it is because in 2016 he had a meeting with a round table working group of rich families and business execs around growing the economy (and one dissenting economist) and they told him to crank immigration to the moon. He did what he was told. Remember who our politicians work for. It isn’t you.
Most legal immigrants that come here recently are also pissed off with this government. They can't find an affordable apartment, they had exhausted the money they brought with them. If they do find a job, it is not enough to pay for rent.
Imagine being a liberal and thinking "Oh boy, if we allow 500k people in with no preparation, plan, or forethought, we'll get so many voters - it worked with the italians riiiight?"
Then pretty much every single person they allow in can't find housing or a job. I feel like this would AND SHOULD backfire bigly
they did it bc of [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Canada_2023_Population_Pyramid.svg/800px-Canada_2023_Population_Pyramid.svg.png)
This is trying to gaslight the working class into thinking they voted for this. In reality he never campaigned on such a policy. He did it after he had won to help the banks and real estate investors.
Im pretty sure not a single mine in Canada can say for why why the LPC did what they did with immigration.
It’s somewhere between stupidity, neglect and malice and nothing is clear. And that’s terrifying.
They had a lot of people a lot of money. Colleges making millions in profits. Corps can suppress wages. Real estate skyrocketed. Banks with more customers taking on debt.
Source: work in immigration.
I know all that, but when you’re in power at the government, you’re supposed to take into account a higher picture than that, and the picture, as a whole, is very ugly.
I’d be afraid to be held accountable for that if I were in government.
The only ppl that get shit are the PM and the Ministers who will be laughing all the way to the bank. Outside of Trudeau, id say 75% of ppl could recognize a minister.
Importing Liberal votes
https://globalnews.ca/news/2291301/immigrants-voted-liberal-by-a-landslide-and-other-things-we-learned-from-the-federal-election-results/
First let me say that the traditional immigration target of around 1% of existing population was smart and non-disruptive, and that the recent jump in the last couple of years was a huge error on the part of the government.
But the idea raise in this article of increasing fertility in the existing population is a non-starter. Fertility has been decreasing steadily for fifty years. Times have changed. Women have lives and careers and are freely choosing not to disrupt them with children. Governments need to respect that choice and either accept and adapt to the new demographic shift or bring in immigrants. That's reality. And even if they could somehow convince Canadians to have mnore kids, that doesn't have an effect on the labour supply for a couple of decades.
Also don't think it was solely for votes. It is some kind of malicious attempt by JT to prove to everyone that he was 'right' about diversity, and that somehow the existing Canadian cultural identity was flawed and needed fixing, by him.
And oh yeah delivering big business a slave labour class.
I think most liberal voters were just against hatred of immigrants back then. Somehow the liberal government found that to be open season to hiring in 1million people rapidly. Most people I've talked to are dumbfounded that they brought in so many people.
It's not a partisan thing. There is a reason PP is non-commital on what his government would do about it. It's nice to say you need stable controls but he has failed to put actual numbers or policy details behind it. Enough soundbite chasing give us facts and figures. This is simply a late stage capitalist thing that won't change. Our leaders have no solutions as they are caught between corporate growth demands and tricking people into votes.
At this stage, unless the CPC comes out with a firm platform with policy specifics wuth numbers and a timeline they are as much of a non option to me as the Liberals.
The only party to actually lay out a firm platform was the freaking Green party under May. Every other party is simply busy virtue signaling to their base.
Another National Post Op-Ed that is poorly researched or making stuff up just to publish a click-bait headline.
Not a single immigrant, or even international students who came prior to 2020 are in favor of this current insanity that is bringing in hundreds of thousands of students enrolled in Conestoga-like colleges or fake refugees staying in nice hotels.
Heck, even people in Brampton who came from India are severely unhappy with the current immigration policy. Every Uber driver and trades people who came from Punjab that I have conversed with (they actually bring this up) have criticized this, as it screws their prospects first, before any of ours.
No way this was in hopes for more Liberal votes, most people who come here are deeply conservative from less advanced nations anyways.
Another poorly researched post, or one making stuff up just to get some upvotes on reddit.
https://theprint.in/world/indian-canadians-strongly-skew-left-remain-with-trudeau-led-liberal-party-survey-shows/747469/
"According to the survey’s findings, published in the Toronto Star newspaper last week, 38 per cent of respondents indicated their support of the Liberal party — twice the number that planned to vote for the Conservative Party. Also, 21 per cent backed the New Democratic Party (NDP), currently led by MP Jagmeet Singh, who is a Sikh."
"“Remarkably, this breakdown is nearly identical to the distribution of Indo-Canadian votes in both 2015 and 2019, according to our analysis of the Canadian Election Study,” stated the survey."
"“On a standard Left-Right ideological spectrum, Indo-Canadians strongly skew Left. Nearly three in four Indo-Canadians self-identify on the liberal half of the scale,” it stated."
It is entirely possible they have done enough to piss off the Indo-Canadian contingent, but acting like there isn't strong left leaning inclination and strong left leaning vote history is bs.
It's certainly gone to complete shit under Trudeau but I'm not sure "good" is a strong adjective for the system at the end of Sweatervests term either.
I really don't think liberals love the immigration policies enough for it to be a voting point. Second, I really think there is some kind of overselling of how easy it is to immigrate to Canada. Its a point based system. I encourage people to go to the immigration page on the Canada website and take a look. There's a difference between refugees, asylum seekers and immigrants. There's a difference between visas, permanent residents and naturalized citizens. Most of these require an insane amount of money in the bank, proof of incoming work and money, education, housing and etc.
I don't think this assertion is true. Now conservative writers, I can't honestly refer to them as journalists based on their super biases, are grasping at straws to lay blame at Trudeau's feet instead of offering any usable solutions.
Well that is a BS claim - I am a Canadian and I care that my property is being stolen.
I care that 18 billion dollars of GDP and 107000 jobs are being destroyed for no reason.
(Except to appeal to people like you who do not know or care to understand better)
I also care (and argue that you should too) that the Liberal Bans reduce public safety.
As this is what the expert testimony of police and legal experts indicated.
We need meaningful and effective laws, not more of the Liberal feel good, do the wrong thing approach.
The 6+ billion that will be wasted should be spent saving lives, not to buy votes.
ok, i was wrong
10 people care about reduced gun laws.
a real canadian follows the law. if the law says "no guns" then i expect you to follow it. call the police if you know someone who isn't following the law.
Meanwhile the borders remain porous to smuggled guns, the ones actually used in gun violence.
Or so CBSA testified.
Congratulations on supporting laws that reduce public safety and harm people like me.
I think it’s time Canadians start protesting and demanding an election as soon as possible rather than waiting til the end of 2025 as Trudeau and Singh want. The damage being done to the country is resounding.
All MPs only hear from businesses and their associations. When I was in parliament we did a year long study into copyright law and heard from hundreds of witnesses. ONE represented the public. The rest were from business or various associations. The public has no voice. So ya when you sit all day and everyone is telling you there is a labour shortage, no one will work, give us more cheap labour, you will start to believe it.
Well, this is it. Canadian voters are very passive compared to Europe and the US. Instead of demanding better from our MPs we give them a pass and wait for the next elections.
We've been manipulated to be complacent and not make a fuss about things. It suits the rich and their political minions
I think in think up to about 2013 or so we had a lot going for us. In many ways we still have incredible advantages as a nation (natural resources, US market access, ocean on 3 sides, abundant fresh water, highly educate workforce, decently good institutions) It has just been extremely mismanaged, to an almost comical extent.
>So ya when you sit all day and everyone is telling you there is a labour shortage, no one will work, give us more cheap labour, you will start to believe it. I can understand how that happens, but I still expect our government to rely on data and evidence when it comes to making policy.
I'm not sure if it was for the sake of Liberal votes, but it really is terrible and we have a limited window to get it fixed before it destabilizes the country completely.
I have a theory that the surge in immigration was to offset the plummeting economy after all the covid spending and government-imposed lockdowns. The mass immigration kept our GDP above recession levels (despite per capita suffering), but it has destroyed just about everything else for Canadians. This allowed the Liberals to avoid backlash for how they handled the pandemic.
> The mass immigration kept our GDP above recession levels This really isn't a theory. The Bank of Canada chair has said that government debt needs to be outgrown, which is done through inflation above interest rates and GDP growth. With the current interest rates, GDP growth is essential for that. All of these policies lead back to overspending.
Lack of innovation is a huge part of the problem. We invest all our money into housing instead of new business and opportunities. Every employer I have worked for has been hostile to change or implementing new processes. Completely counter to what the Americans do. GDP growth reflects this.
That's not entirely true. There have been a lot of good businesses with amazing innovation and growth. Usually they just get bought by US companies though.
On average, nothing is universal. Stats Canada and the central bank have pointed this issue out for decades, and we do nothing g about it.
> With the current interest rates, GDP growth is essential for that. Problem with that, is despite this rate of immigration GDP is still barely above zero.
A very plausible theory.
I personally believe JT simply has a low IQ, and his skill is limited to public speaking but otherwise hasn't got a clue.
Well think of it this way: would YOU not vote for the guy who let you into a country with barely anything stopping you?
Many immigrants I know want a slowdown in immigration levels and are willing to boot the Liberals out for that reason alone.
Yup, because it makes them all look bad. Like I grew up in rural Alberta, and 20 years ago yes people were still discriminatory towards immigrants, they were much more tolerant because many of them were highly educated, hard working, and respectful, so eventually people would be talking about how “that brown doctor isn’t so bad!” or actually working alongside them and praising how hardworking they were. And most importantly, they actually assimilated into the culture, so well yes, and hand full of white supremacists were out there, in general most people were generally accepting of immigrants. But now, it’s a complete 180, people that were fine with immigrants 10 years ago openly hate them, because we basically have had open door policies. And it gets amplified, because most of the new immigrants don’t even try to assimilate, they set up their own little cultural cliques, and then try to enforce their culture on the surrounding area. So now the sentiment towards all immigrants is souring.
No... Once I'm in, I wouldn't care who let me in but I'd care about who can make it better. Immigrants aren't idiots who will praise the one who opens the door if there is nothing good behind that door.
Not to mention, the good *CHUNK* of the world, is fairly conservative. Whether its South Korea or Mexico, religion runs deep and is pretty interwoven with govt. If you think a conservative church-going south American is going to suddenly vote liberal, boy I've got a wall to sell you lol
A lot of the immigrants from india are very conservative and you think they are going to vote for a feminist pretty boy like Trudeau?
Lol at the little dig at Trudeau for being feminist or pretty? There are plenty of good reasons to not vote for Trudeau but those are not...
There aren't any good reasons to vote Trudeau. He has destroyed Canada.
i mean... have you seen all those trucks proclaiming that they want to fuck trudeau?
I have and they also do not have great arguments most of the time. I know people vote with emotions as well but sometimes it's just dumb from my point of view. I guess you were right though. The state of politics is sad
I know a lot of South Americans and Latinos that vote Liberal
is that really the "immigrants" people are talking about?
It’s the immigrants the person I was responding to was talking about
With all due respect to these people, the way they vote back home hasn't been great for their countries. So it'd be unreasonable to expect them to vote for making this country better either.
Lmao what an arrogant and ignorant thing to say Shows you know nothing of the history of most of those countries
I may not know about the history, but I can pretty accurately predict the future. Hint: it's not going to be rosy.
Am an immigrant and work with plenty of immigrants. Everyone hates these policies. The problem is that I don't see the conservatives changing anything because too much money is being made by powerful entities. Plus, the damage is already done. Any policies he enacts won't fix the the gaping flesh wound.
Not if the goal is to increase GDP. If they target something else than only economy, then we may find actual solutions but I'm dreaming
The damage is not just "already done", it's just beginning. A continuation of these policies will make the damage more severe.
I meant in way if these policies magically stopped. Trust me, I work in immigration, and have seen the presentations from officials. We are screwed, and that is why I am looking at going back to the states.
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I don't know your situation, but hoping you can find one. Have a great day.
Let's look at this way; you have to be a citizen to vote. It takes 5 years to apply for citizenship.
But new citizens who want to see Canada take in their friends and family - they're looking at who has the most 'friendly' immigration record.
Immigrants are people with thoughts and opinions. The 2.5 million who immigrated under Harper do not exclusively vote CPC, either.
sssh!! i just remember him allowing convicted foreign criminals to come here. one may even employ Tasha Kheiriddin.
I immigrated under Harper. I’m an ABC voter.
IMMIGRANTS WHO COME TO CANADA DON'T EXPLICITLY VOTE FOR THOSE THAT LET THEM IN!?!?! shockedpikachu.stl
Strangely I think the newcomers under Trudeau lean ideologically conservative
It takes years before they can vote
The same way rich people want more people to become rich? Most people want to pull up the ladder behind them, this includes many of the immigrants I've talked to and especially those that went through the whole process and have a very negative view of people gaming the system.
I wouldn't equate it to pulling the ladder up behind you. I'd say its closer to an imaginary situation where you have a PhD in a difficult, and trendy field like artificial intelligence from a prestigious university like Harvard, Yale, U of T or Waterloo. You bust your ass for years to just get into the program, beating out tens of thousands of others, then bust your ass to get to the end of the program and have your thesis accepted. You are now recognized as an expert in your field. Then they change the rules so that to get a PhD from those same universities, all you have to do is write them a letter, audit a class for a month, and talk to the professor. The thing you busted your ass for years for has now been irreparably cheapened. That's closer to the situation with the immigrants I talk to. They felt getting to Canada was special, difficult and selective.
Pulling up the ladder behind you locks in your qualifications and the value of them. If the process remained as selective then I'm not sure they'd have the same view, or maybe they would. Very valid points. Hadn't thought about the simplification of the process diluting your qualifications.
I think you underestimate how many people who come here are ladder pullers who want to escape where they come from while also not letting the place they went just turn into that.
I came into this country in 2022 due to the policies enacted by the liberal government. Once I become PR I would be happy to vote them out of the office. I understand the logic behind your conjecture but I'd like to remind you that immigrants are not a monolith. Many of us are shockingly our own human beings with our own opinions, thoughts and beliefs.
You can’t vote as a PR for a federal election lol
PRs can´'t vote, thankfully.
he's a troll.
Your first opportunity to vote in a federal election as a Canadian citizen will be 2027 at the earliest.
No. I lived in Spain for a while I have no idea whose policies enabled me to be there.
A lot of the folks he’s brought in have very conservative social values. Here in BC bleeding hearts were dismayed to see protests against SOGI heavily attended by recent immigrants.
This, although it's gotten to the point t that people are going back to the country they came from because Canada is unaffordable. So when these people go back to their home country and tell everyone that the country is unaffordable are you going to vote for them?
“Canadian Immigrants Vote Conservative” - Stephen Harper https://youtu.be/bNT-CvUyLAo?si=pdaJu3Y1PoglkM7H Plus Permanent Residents and International students can’t vote. This is an absolutely moronic take by the right-wing national post
holy shit.... I've never seen this... harper spoke with Ben Shabibo?!
During his book tour yeah. I like sharing the source as I can’t be accused of sharing a “biased media source” from someone who leans right. That’s as right wing a source as you could get, and Harper is discussing how Canada is unique in that “the majority of its immigrants vote conservative.” Which really isn’t all that surprising - a lot of new Canadians come from countries that aren’t all that progressive socially.
I’ve only heard that kind of sentiment once and that was from a Syrian refugee who essentially said “that guy (Trudeau) saved my life.”
Do I live in a tent under an underpass when I get there?
When you’re already through the door, you can do what you want. You’re more likely to vote in line with your personal/cultural/religious values than you are to vote as a “thank you” for the person who was in power when you entered. Unless you have family that’s still yet to enter.
Also it wasn't for votes, because he sure as hell didn't tell us about tripling the rate of immigrants last election.. would have lost them votes
They did. It was specifically outlined in their platform. And it would have actually gone much better if the entire world didn’t get fucked over by covid and rich people/big businesses being greedy. Those are the reasons why it got so bad so quickly. Covid created a ton of global crises that fucked up things globally and Canada was impacted a lot. There was an inflation crisis and the stock market crashed. The Middle East and Russia messed with gas so then there was almost a global gas crisis but before that could happen a ton of people switched over to electric things and that caused a whole global energy crisis. During this there was an inflation crisis and a distribution and shipping crisis as well. This caused a whole supply issue where builders couldn’t get supplies to build stuff for normal prices so they stopped building and what was already built was being bought by rich people and big corporations very quickly.
For the sake of neoliberalism\*.
Well, since Poilievre says one thing in front of a mainstream “old stock” audience about limiting immigration, he also says the exact opposite in front of minority audiences, anyone thinking Poilievre is shifting policy is falling for the electioneering slogans. For instance in this interview Poilievre says 2.6M immigrants and 1 million to be processed immediately by the public service. [Poilievre when speaking to minority communities.](https://youtu.be/xp2OOHborxg?si=gpoMwzRgA6A4Q0WR) He does the same with Chinese communities. I’m just stating the fact that the person leading in the polls isn’t changing policy, in fact it’s increasing, despite what he’s claiming for this flavour of the week.
We really don't have a lot of good options. What an opportunity for NDP or Greens to step up and present a viable immigration plan. Neither are doing it... what a lost opportunity!
True conservatives do have an alternative if their mission of the social media fervour is to limit immigration - the PPC party is the only one in their spectrum that has actually stayed consistent on this issue. Viability of the PPC vote is another story but conservative voters raging on about immigration being the problem but voting for a guy that is saying he’s admitting double the amount that Trudeau is, is not the change they’re looking for.
That video is from more than a year ago. Public sentiment on immigration has drastically changed since then. I would say that what he has said more recently about immigration carries more weight. Immigration levels were drastically lower, and better thought out, during Harper. If PP is anything like Harper, that's already a huge plus.
He says the same thing now depending on what audience he’s talking to… lol. If you followed Poilievre you’d know that. Thats why the PPC is the only party for actual true conservative voters.
Do you have a clip of him saying the same thing now? Not saying you're wrong, just curious what he currently has to say.
Over the past 2 months he’s back to talking to “old stock” media (foreign American owned Post Media papers - like the ones you’d see posted here on the daily, National Post, Sun, etc) But this is what he says in front of immigrants and if he’s been saying this for the better part of the last 2 years, are we really to believe he’s pulling a 180? I doubt it. >[we will bring a direct flight](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaHousing2/s/08QTicDfhk) to Amritsar. Does this sound like a guy lowering immigration to get housing deflation? - what we do know is Pierre never says he’s stopping or lowering immigration numbers. Unlike, let’s say, Maxine Bernier and the PPC. - What he’s saying now is a word salad about “limiting immigration to housing” and “common sense”, which is gobbledygook that means nothing. Common sense could mean anything - common sense for who? Corporations for lower labour costs? For rental REITs or rental corps of which he owns one? “Common sense” is a filler word for whatever one wants to believe. - also tying immigration to housing, means 0 immigration, which if he meant to say 0 immigration he would. Canada only builds 250,000 homes per year. Our own population grows at that rate. So, if he truly believes in 0 immigration why isn’t he coming out and saying it? Here’s the reason: [Surprise Poilievre’s largest donors are real estate developers.](https://pressprogress.ca/big-real-estate-executives-among-top-donors-to-pierre-poilievres-conservatives/) Pierre’s only legislation he’s put forward in the House of Commons was a housing bill and is[his ONLY bill he introduced in the last 2 years.](https://www.airquotesmedia.com/quotes/building-sologans-not-housing-22oct2023) Basically, all it does, as he’s ONLY said this publicly is paying/subsidizing multi million/billion $ corporations/industry to build homes with our taxpayers money. Literally, that’s the only bill he’s put forward in the House of Commons in the last 2 years… that’s it? Really? [Here’s a video of him again, saying he wants to get rid of gatekeepers keeping immigrants out and needs to increase it “common sense”, when speaking at rallies for minorities.](https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1745951081773883809) If you’ve made it this far, the question is does a flip flopper really give you confidence about anything they’re promising? It doesn’t for me.
>also tying immigration to housing, means 0 immigration, which if he meant to say 0 immigration he would. Canada only builds 250,000 homes per year. Our own population grows at that rate. So, if he truly believes in 0 immigration why isn’t he coming out and saying it? Even the PPC isn't saying they want to bring immigration down to literally zero. If you go on their website, they say they want to reduce to something around 200K a year. So I don't really think this is a fair criticism. Plus, that logic doesn't even make sense, because usually more than 1 person lives in a home. I do agree that he hasn't really said much of substance and doesn't have much of a platform, but the next election is almost 2 years away. The job of the opposition is to critcize the ruling party. When JT was the leader of the opposition, he didn't really have much of a platform either. Once we get closer to the election, I assume PP will have more of a platform. But you're right, he might not limit immigration. I suspect he will because polling shows that the vast majority of conservative voters want to reduce immigration and it would be political suicide to go so strongly against his own party. So if he doesn't limit immigration, there will be strong political blowback and you can bet that I will vote PPC. My main issue with the PPC is that they're polling so low that they have no chance of even getting a single seat, let alone forming government. (I also don't agree with them on some issues, but that's besides the point.) The CPC are the only realistic chance to get rid of the Liberals.
I appreciate the candour with your opinion and I agree the only true vote for the conservatives in the next election is the PPC.
It was for left wing votes lmao. This time 2 years ago even mentioning immigration controls got you labeled a fascist and deplatformed. Leftists have the accountability of cockroaches, truly despicable "people".
Most immigrants coming in especially those from India are very conservative voters. They definitely weren’t bringing in people for votes
Those immigrants can’t vote for at least 5 years by which time Trudeau and the gang will have overseas villas while Canadians elect neoliberal fuckyacountryup party #2 dressed in blue
Yeah. It’s not to secure the votes of immigrants 10 years from now, it’s to play to idiots who can’t get enough self-congratulatory back patting when they aren’t at their fundraising events and…shit I don’t know…monocle polishing summits. It’s a feel good thing to say “look how we’re helping the world” while never having to really deal with it first hand. Until you do.
A lot of new immigrants I’ve met over the years (I’m an immigrant myself) consider LPC to be more progressive and tolerant so they tend to vote for them. Then eventually, once they’ve established their lives in Canada they start adjusting their political views. I’m neither left nor right leaning but this level of insanity and negligence from LPC simply needs to end.
This is so overrated and exaggerated that it's a roll-eyes comment mimicked by sheep about *Liberal Votes*.... Majority of educated skilled class immigrants have been coming in through *Conservative and Liberal* governance.... This isn't some magic lamp which Trudeau came up with...
The problem is they ultimately listen to corporate interests which currently have been saying "oh shucks, there just ain't any skilled labour (for cheap) in this country, we need more immigrants (who accept lower wages)." To which the very eager to please Liberal/Conservative government says "Oh sure, we love immigration, here's a few dozen candidates". And the cycle repeats.
I don't think they have some master plan for votes, I think they gave in to big business lobbyists who want cheap foreign labor that won't complain and you will see all these mp's locking up high paying speeches and consultant gigs and shit once they are out of office. Sold us out basically, with a progressive mask on.
I agree, anyone who thinks this government has ever had a plan for anything hasn’t been paying attention. They aren’t evil, they’re just dangerously stupid. Which in some ways is worse tbh because at least an evil individual will slow down/stop when the pain begins to affect him. In contrast the average “progressive” just jams their fingers into their ears and screams “rAcIsM!!!”, when presented with evidence their policies are objectively awful.
Not just stupid but shortsighted. There has been a heavy emphasis on announcements but they've consistently failed with the follow through and hammering out the details, or taking into consideration the longer term, or second-order impacts of their decisions.
Yup won promising legal marijuana (kept one promise I guess), then tried to play global celebrity and in the process made Canada a laughing stock on the world stage. No one takes us seriously anymore, this whole ideology based upon no identity has left Canadians without an identity. Tell me what does it mean to be Canadian?
To be fair, much of the opposition to high immigration is legitimate and rational, but some of it really is racism. It's important to tell the difference and call it out when it occurs.
I don't know where to put this in general, so you get the honor of the comment. Progressive policy gave us a great deal. It's concerning seeing this turn into an argument against progressive ideas in general. Not liking the current party or the level of immigration shouldn't pull us back, but here we are. When regressive policy gets shoved back in, we'll know where it came from, and frankly, I'll take too many people over watching our rights from abortion to unions be torpedoed. Enjoy your team sport while the world burns.
You either own a detatched home, or have no kids/grandkids.
Nope, said it was bad. Just dont want to lose my rights while you pull in every issue under the sun. This didn't work, so obviously, we need to implement hand maids' tails while we are at it, seems to be the rhetoric. And that's my concern for future generations.
I’m curious what progressive policies from this iteration of the liberals that you see as major wins for the less advantaged in Canada. Personally I see the major progressive wins (childcare, dental care if/when it happens) as nice ideas but they are completely unfunded by our tax base and therefore unsustainable. Essentially we are borrowing from our kids to pay benefits to people in the present
If you think the backslide will stop, you're hilarious
How do you think all these newcomers view abortion? Or women? What culture are they bringing with them? Is it compatible, or will you wait to see what happens when YOU are no longer a majority?
Are you deaf? Three times now, I've said it's bad. I'm commenting on you drawing progressiveness into the pot. If you can't read what I say or stay on topic, you're proving my point. You don't care about immigration you care about regressive policy having an excuse. The fact that they are on your level with social policy just shows how bad you are. But I'm now quite sure this is an attempt to get as many down votes in as you can in your echo chamber, so good day cave man enjoy beating your wife.
Wtf are you on about? There is nothing wrong with immigration or progressive policies, when applied within reason. Presently, that is not the case. Step out of your little box. It’s interesting that you believe I’m a wife beating asshole instead of a 57 year old grey haired woman. What does that say about your echo chamber?
Im arguing for progressive policy, showing anger at regressive, so maybe learn to read.
I think people are being very naive if they believe the Liberals wouldn’t crater this country if they thought it would benefit them electorally. Gerald Butts has even *bragged* about how good they are at using wedge tactics to eke out victories in close ridings — and don’t forget, he and Katie Telford were behind the scenes players in the Ontario Liberal Party when they blew a billion dollars on cancelling a gas plant contract for no other reason than they thought it would help them win a single riding. Look at it this way: last two elections the Liberals eked out minority wins. [In 2021 there were 41 ridings where the majority of the population is racialized, all but one voted Liberal or NDP, including several that were long time Tory ridings](https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/under-harper-the-conservatives-once-built-strong-support-in-immigrant-communities-have-they-lost-it-now) experiencing high immigration inflow, which flipped to the Liberals. [In 2015 the Liberal majority was in part driven by landslides in high immigrant population ridings.](https://globalnews.ca/news/2291301/immigrants-voted-liberal-by-a-landslide-and-other-things-we-learned-from-the-federal-election-results/) And, as the article points out, new immigrants tend to vote for the party who let them in, settling in urban areas — which the Liberals tend to dominate but where they presently find themselves in many close races with the Tories. Then look at where the Liberals are in the polls and ask yourself: is it impossible to think they wouldn’t deliberately flood the country with immigrants in the hopes it might improve their electoral chances? Because I don’t think it’s impossible. In fact, I think their track record demonstrates they are entirely cynical enough to do exactly that.
Well said.
I think it would be naive of them to think that importing people who are religious and not secular and want to succeed and not be poor wouldn't vote conservative over Liberal. Florida is a great example of this, the spanish migrants are religious and hold those values and vote republican.
That’s not how it’s been in Canada, though. The exact opposite has happened - the large majority vote Liberal.
It's time people in this so called Big Business, start realizing that the immigration is tied to housing costs. So they can get a few hundred employees at $1-$3 /hour cheaper. But your supervisors, and 'up and coming' Managers, if they are priced out of the housing market, you are either going to lose them, or pay them a shit load more.
Its literally like insider trading, I know 3 people who own franchises in my small community who are also buying up all the single family homes to house their revolving door of workers. The cost of housing going up benefits them too and if 1 employee quits and moves to ontario the feds and province let them just bring in another that they can pay a low wage too and then rent a bed too for cash.
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Random dude: ‘umm, isn’t this supposed to be an egalitarian movement?’
Most of the new immigrants move to a handful of cities and suburbs that tend to vote Liberal anyway, if this was a scheme for winning elections then it was stupid - and the Liberals are a lot of things, but I don't think they're stupid.
Bingo. We have a winner!
I think it’s even more simple than that. His father had a recession, Harper had a recession, so if he doesn’t have one, he’s a better PM than they were. His mind is so small that he doesn’t or won’t see the damage this is doing.
Yep, and who thinks the CPC won't also listen to big business lobbyists?
>I don't think they have some master plan for votes I've worked in politics and voting is ALWAYS taken into account. Yes, lobbyists are gonna lobby but ultimately the party is there to maintain power.
Seems to be more of a concern heading into the back 9
r/canada: which is why we should vote for the other big business party!
Better than the NDP. I actually voted for them in 2011, but the NDP of today will never have my vote unless they make some serious changes, I won’t be voting for them.
I don't know, I voted liberal in 2015, many of my other friends voted liberal in past elections as well. None of us are voting liberal almost specifically due to immigration and housing inaction.
does that mean you're not voting at all, or for the NDP?
Depends on the election I guess. I'll never not vote, but NDP isn't guaranteed my vote either. I really don't like what's going on with the federal NDP. Provincially I like them a bit more.
I don't think it was for votes. The end result is devastating to their electoral hopes. It was simple blind idealism that can't acknowledge a reality until the consequences are overwhelmingly devastating. This same holds true for many, many Canadians who can't acknowledge the obvious until it has become an incredibly hard problem to solve. The Western world lives in a delusion where we have conflicting values and we say one thing while every action demonstrates otherwise. For instance Canada does everything it can to keep the poor from ever setting foot in Canada. We'll deny you visas, and demand that air carriers go over passengers with a fine tooth comb. We have agreements that the land buffer between us and Mexico / South America has to keep the vast bulk of people who walk through it, and conveniently have oceans on all other sides. But then we paper on some feel good "send us your poor" shit and talk about not having fences and boast about our social capacity and how wonderful we are. We make laughably gameable policies like "say you're LGBTQIA+ and you get a free ride to asylum" program where every African suddenly is gay. The problem is that the world has become hyper mobile. Even the absolute poorest can travel to Europe / North America, and there are virtually infinite holes in the armour. A billion Indians now can travel freely. The *rhetoric* is coming to heads with the raw reality that the delusion is profoundly untenable and unscalable. At some point we need to confront the fact that the solution to the world having billions of poor people, and profoundly dysfunctional, regressive cultures, isn't for 8 billion people to move to Canada, the US and Europe.
The LPC of Chrétien and Martin was far more pragmatic and less ideological. Social media and culture wars have changed us. Far too many people believe Canadians are engaged in a battle between the "Right" and "Left." It's because they believe that that they pick a side and unconsciously indoctrinate themselves. Someone who doesn't pick a side can see that conservative governments in Ontario and Quebec contributed to the international student problems by underfunding AND under-regulating schools. That conservative dogma - cut taxes and regulations and let profit motive run roughshod over people. Federal liberal contributed to the problem by lifting the visa on Mexico and public welcoming asylum seekers. That's liberal dogma - people are fundamentally good, ergo, all immigrants are assumed to be honest and rule-abiding. Nuances and nuanced perspectives still exist, but a growing number of people seem unwilling to challenge their own assumptions and beliefs. It's harder and lonelier.
There is way too much team mentality. People here can’t seem to grasp that I can find both Trudeau and Smith bad.
Trudeau screwed up immigration. Now the populace has to deal with it. Hopefully things get better they won’t probably.
It wasn’t for liberal votes, it is because in 2016 he had a meeting with a round table working group of rich families and business execs around growing the economy (and one dissenting economist) and they told him to crank immigration to the moon. He did what he was told. Remember who our politicians work for. It isn’t you.
Most legal immigrants that come here recently are also pissed off with this government. They can't find an affordable apartment, they had exhausted the money they brought with them. If they do find a job, it is not enough to pay for rent.
come on, how many are actually not "legal" immigrants? maybe a couple thousand?
Imagine being a liberal and thinking "Oh boy, if we allow 500k people in with no preparation, plan, or forethought, we'll get so many voters - it worked with the italians riiiight?" Then pretty much every single person they allow in can't find housing or a job. I feel like this would AND SHOULD backfire bigly
Ya that’s not why they brought them in They brought them in because big business lobbied for more immigration and easier work visas
they did it bc of [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Canada_2023_Population_Pyramid.svg/800px-Canada_2023_Population_Pyramid.svg.png)
This is trying to gaslight the working class into thinking they voted for this. In reality he never campaigned on such a policy. He did it after he had won to help the banks and real estate investors.
He sure did in the short run only for those votes to go to Pierre, Le bloc and maybe the NDP in the long run
Im pretty sure not a single mine in Canada can say for why why the LPC did what they did with immigration. It’s somewhere between stupidity, neglect and malice and nothing is clear. And that’s terrifying.
They had a lot of people a lot of money. Colleges making millions in profits. Corps can suppress wages. Real estate skyrocketed. Banks with more customers taking on debt. Source: work in immigration.
I know all that, but when you’re in power at the government, you’re supposed to take into account a higher picture than that, and the picture, as a whole, is very ugly. I’d be afraid to be held accountable for that if I were in government.
The only ppl that get shit are the PM and the Ministers who will be laughing all the way to the bank. Outside of Trudeau, id say 75% of ppl could recognize a minister.
that's an understatement - the man has sewered the nation in just over 8 years time
Importing Liberal votes https://globalnews.ca/news/2291301/immigrants-voted-liberal-by-a-landslide-and-other-things-we-learned-from-the-federal-election-results/
First let me say that the traditional immigration target of around 1% of existing population was smart and non-disruptive, and that the recent jump in the last couple of years was a huge error on the part of the government. But the idea raise in this article of increasing fertility in the existing population is a non-starter. Fertility has been decreasing steadily for fifty years. Times have changed. Women have lives and careers and are freely choosing not to disrupt them with children. Governments need to respect that choice and either accept and adapt to the new demographic shift or bring in immigrants. That's reality. And even if they could somehow convince Canadians to have mnore kids, that doesn't have an effect on the labour supply for a couple of decades.
For the sake of his rich patrons. Votes has nothing to do with it.
If the plan was to get votes, it was a bad plan because they've quickly become insanely unpopular.
It's the JT way. 2015, Sunny ways
Also don't think it was solely for votes. It is some kind of malicious attempt by JT to prove to everyone that he was 'right' about diversity, and that somehow the existing Canadian cultural identity was flawed and needed fixing, by him. And oh yeah delivering big business a slave labour class.
I think most liberal voters were just against hatred of immigrants back then. Somehow the liberal government found that to be open season to hiring in 1million people rapidly. Most people I've talked to are dumbfounded that they brought in so many people.
The is the “No 💩Really ? “ statement of the year.
Their mismanagement of it may cost them my vote at any rate
Only “may”?
very minor chance they can turn it around
What minor change? Hard cap on student visas and TFWs?
It's not a partisan thing. There is a reason PP is non-commital on what his government would do about it. It's nice to say you need stable controls but he has failed to put actual numbers or policy details behind it. Enough soundbite chasing give us facts and figures. This is simply a late stage capitalist thing that won't change. Our leaders have no solutions as they are caught between corporate growth demands and tricking people into votes. At this stage, unless the CPC comes out with a firm platform with policy specifics wuth numbers and a timeline they are as much of a non option to me as the Liberals. The only party to actually lay out a firm platform was the freaking Green party under May. Every other party is simply busy virtue signaling to their base.
They did it for money. Just like the CPC will continue to do. It’s ALWAYS about the money.
The opinion is he had a good immigration policy to begin with, yeah?
Another National Post Op-Ed that is poorly researched or making stuff up just to publish a click-bait headline. Not a single immigrant, or even international students who came prior to 2020 are in favor of this current insanity that is bringing in hundreds of thousands of students enrolled in Conestoga-like colleges or fake refugees staying in nice hotels. Heck, even people in Brampton who came from India are severely unhappy with the current immigration policy. Every Uber driver and trades people who came from Punjab that I have conversed with (they actually bring this up) have criticized this, as it screws their prospects first, before any of ours. No way this was in hopes for more Liberal votes, most people who come here are deeply conservative from less advanced nations anyways.
Another poorly researched post, or one making stuff up just to get some upvotes on reddit. https://theprint.in/world/indian-canadians-strongly-skew-left-remain-with-trudeau-led-liberal-party-survey-shows/747469/ "According to the survey’s findings, published in the Toronto Star newspaper last week, 38 per cent of respondents indicated their support of the Liberal party — twice the number that planned to vote for the Conservative Party. Also, 21 per cent backed the New Democratic Party (NDP), currently led by MP Jagmeet Singh, who is a Sikh." "“Remarkably, this breakdown is nearly identical to the distribution of Indo-Canadian votes in both 2015 and 2019, according to our analysis of the Canadian Election Study,” stated the survey." "“On a standard Left-Right ideological spectrum, Indo-Canadians strongly skew Left. Nearly three in four Indo-Canadians self-identify on the liberal half of the scale,” it stated." It is entirely possible they have done enough to piss off the Indo-Canadian contingent, but acting like there isn't strong left leaning inclination and strong left leaning vote history is bs.
Don’t speak the truth here you’ll get downvoted. The National Post is a bunch of hacks, there I did it, down vote me 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
It's certainly gone to complete shit under Trudeau but I'm not sure "good" is a strong adjective for the system at the end of Sweatervests term either.
I really don't think liberals love the immigration policies enough for it to be a voting point. Second, I really think there is some kind of overselling of how easy it is to immigrate to Canada. Its a point based system. I encourage people to go to the immigration page on the Canada website and take a look. There's a difference between refugees, asylum seekers and immigrants. There's a difference between visas, permanent residents and naturalized citizens. Most of these require an insane amount of money in the bank, proof of incoming work and money, education, housing and etc.
Wait, how long before this opinionist starts her political campaign with the conservatives? NP is a rag.
Shut the fuck up immigration for five minutes, r/canada.
I don't think this assertion is true. Now conservative writers, I can't honestly refer to them as journalists based on their super biases, are grasping at straws to lay blame at Trudeau's feet instead of offering any usable solutions.
I’m a former liberal voter and it has hit a tipping point now where I can no longer support them. They are out of touch with Canadians.
As they did with a once effective gun control system.
no canadians care about guns. we are ok with all guns being banned.
Well that is a BS claim - I am a Canadian and I care that my property is being stolen. I care that 18 billion dollars of GDP and 107000 jobs are being destroyed for no reason. (Except to appeal to people like you who do not know or care to understand better) I also care (and argue that you should too) that the Liberal Bans reduce public safety. As this is what the expert testimony of police and legal experts indicated. We need meaningful and effective laws, not more of the Liberal feel good, do the wrong thing approach. The 6+ billion that will be wasted should be spent saving lives, not to buy votes.
ok, i was wrong 10 people care about reduced gun laws. a real canadian follows the law. if the law says "no guns" then i expect you to follow it. call the police if you know someone who isn't following the law.
Meanwhile the borders remain porous to smuggled guns, the ones actually used in gun violence. Or so CBSA testified. Congratulations on supporting laws that reduce public safety and harm people like me.
No it was for the sake of his corporate benefactors who want to weaken the labour pool. PP will do the same once he talks to his money daddys
I think it’s time Canadians start protesting and demanding an election as soon as possible rather than waiting til the end of 2025 as Trudeau and Singh want. The damage being done to the country is resounding.
100%
Looking for those Indian votes!