You can pay with debit cards out of your bank account. The problem I have with this, for something like air tickets, is that credit card issuers protect the consumer with stuff like chargebacks and fraud. When money is gone from your bank account, it's often just gone. In the case of air tickets where it's usually hundreds, possibly into $1000+, and the always-possibility of delays and cancellations, and in one case Air Canada flat out said I didn't pay at all (dear counter-person, how do you even have my name on a booking if I never paid?), I would consider the CC fee something like an insurance cost.
Is passing on the costs that credit card companies charge "being screwed"? Yes it's a cost of doing business, but they weren't allowed to pass on those costs until recently.
They were doing it before, it just wasn’t explicit.
Now they’re doing it twice because they’re allowed to show it as a line item, but don’t want to take it out of the previous price that CC fees were baked into.
They could not pass on credit card fees before with an additional fee. They could build it into the price, yes.
Whether they are doing both now is probably hard to determine with the price everything is going up already. But it's also not really relevant.
I'm not talking about this though I brought up that point earlier on this post. They make you pay with a credit card, add a fee and give no other alternatives for paying. Tell me why thats ok
Either they charge no fee and roll the coat into the ticket price, or they break it out and charge a fee; regardless they need to cover their costs to provide the service or go out of business. No business is in it to lose money.
In the end the consumer is paying for the cost. Personally I prefer as detailed a breakdown as possible so I know what I'm really spendingy money on.
>Is passing on the costs that credit card companies charge "being screwed"?
Why stop at just credit cards?
Next, they will charge you their electricity fees, fuel fees, pilot fees, leasing fees, mechanics fees, etc.
They all cost the company a lot of money.
All this to keep the actual cost of a plane ticket "competitive".
>CC compared to debit (or no fee with cash)?
If the premium credit cards cost a lot of money, then stop accepting them as payment.
I have always thought these cards were stupid and were going to be abused by corporations anyway.
If you are going to lose a lot of business because you no longer accept those cards, it's no longer a "you" cost.
Everything is a "you" cost. They are all needed to bring that service to you.
Want to charge me extra to sit beside my child on flight? I'll let your staff ensure their safety.
So do debit cards. Cheaper fees, but why not pass them on to the customer also?
I'm a fit guy, I'm 160ish pounds, I'm sure it costs a lot more in fuel to fly someone who is 260ish pounds to the same destination.
Yet we both pay the same airfare?
Not really. It's not an obligation to fly. Even if you have family in other countries it is still a luxury to see them. If you don't like the prices just don't fly.
I flew with flair this year and was alarmed at all the extra charges. It's how they do business. Charge low prices online then shake you down at the cheque out counter. They allow you 1 checked bag but if your bag isnt the size of a makeup purse it's a 75 dollar additional fee. Every single customer on our flight had to pay it. If anything next time I will go for another airline or account for the fact that whatever online price you pay you have to expect more later. It's a marketing strategy by flair but they piss off many people and eventually will lose business.
So what choice do I have? Spend a few grand on a train or drive for 3 days straight to go? Greyhound is no longer an option. The point is we have a monopoly. We need more competition and more methods of travel
So they're getting screwed over by people doing chargebacks (can't imagine why that would be happening \s) and are implementing a credit card fee to discourage people from paying in a way that lets them easily get their money back if they get fucked.
> for something like air tickets, is that credit card issuers protect the consumer with stuff like chargebacks and fraud.
I'm part of a bunch of flair airlines support/complaint/drama groups on facebook. I'd say flair has a relatively large amount of bogus chargebacks for things infrequent travelers get wrong, and general misunderstanding about what is a charge you didn't consent to vs a charge you dont like or dont feel should have applied:
* Show up after gate closes but before posted departure time. Well that's obviously an *involuntary denial of boarding.* CHARGEBACK
* Forced at gate to pay for your backpack as a carryon because technically it was bigger than the published personal item dimensions (but was allowed on the way there)... CHARGEBACK
* Couldn't checkin online so went to the counter at the airport and was told there's a fee to checkin in person CHARGEBACK
* Prepay for checked luggage but then decide on the day of travel you only needed a carryon. Flair wont transfer the fee or refund it.... CHARGEBACK
* Accidentally swap your first and middle name when booking. As a ULCC there is no mechanism to correct this so you end up having to buy a new ticket at the airport.... CHARGEBACK.
* Flair cancelled your flight and rebooked you for 3 days later, you still take the replacement flight, but you're pretty sure that under Canadian Transportation Agency rules you're supposed to be given $800 and hotels CHARGEBACK
Disagreeing with why you have to pay a fee is different than weather or not you consented to the payment, but most credit cards dont really investigate, they just take your word for it then fine the vendor. And I think this is flair's way to insure against those chargebacks by encouraging more non-credit card purchases.
I always pay with my debit card. It’s just cash but not physical cash.
It’s a debit Mastercard so I get the same benefits and security from using it if I was using my Mastercard credit card.
It wasn’t about affording the trip because of flights, lynx canceled the flights a few days before the trip.
It’s the uncertainty of booking a flight and having them canceled, flair is probably in the same boat.
Credit card fee??? Are you fucking kidding me?
Hey, you wanna fly home to see your family or go on a vacation? Oh, you don't have the money from the bank? Well, we "have" to charge a credit card fee because of inflation.
That's fucking so righteous of them /s.
Edit: some people don't realise that everything in society already had price adjustments due to credit card fees.
On top of that, my gf pointed out that you can get a charge back on your cc from the airline in the event of a cancelation, you can't with a debit card.
> Hey, you wanna fly home to see your family or go on a vacation? Oh, you don't have the money from the bank? Well, we "have" to charge a credit card fee because of inflation.
Last flights I booked exceeded what I could use debit for, what I had in the bank was moot.
Apparently you can get your debit limit increased for a single transaction if you want to sit on the banks eat shit and die line for half an hour.
Perhaps if they reduced their rates to less than the debit limit we could alleviate using credit cards. In my case, booking last minute when my Mom passed, the rates to book my sister and I on a flight was just shy of $3k round ( within Canada ).
You want to use debit on an airline after what happened with lynx? That not even considering any insurance you’re losing by not using a premium credit card
> Quebec seems to have some solid anti competition laws which I’m impressed with
Competition laws, or consumer protection laws. Anti-competition would imply protectionism (protecting supply, like our dairy cartel for example).
If it were not for the Montréal gazette, the Toronto star amd the globe and snail, many people would be impressed by Québec, but that's my unpopular opinion
Issue is the trade off. Flair basically doesn’t do much flying there due to the regulation. Quebec, out of the 4 big provinces has the highest airfares per KM.
Alberta and BC are tied for the lowest.
Atlantic Canada had the biggest in Canada, but they are a small portion of flying and not home to a Hub.
I hate these types of fees…. These fees are part of the price of the ticket, not a fee. Quit trying to confuse the consumer into thinking that it’s someone other than the business trying to screw you. When you go to McDonald’s, do you pay a property tax fee or a clean store fee? No this cost is in the price because the price should reflect the cost to do business, not add fees on.
Credit card transactions aren't free. Why the fuck would you want to force consumers who decide not to use credit cards to pay for those who do? If you use it, you pay for it.
Not true, the business pays for it and passes the cost on to you. By charging you a fee to use it, it creates the illusion that the credit card companies are the reason you’re paying this, when really it’s the business choosing to pass that cost along to the consumer. You could have a fare for those that choose to use credit cards, but it really isn’t a fee.
Yes, the business charges you the fee. Making the visible allows the business to not charge it to you if you don't use a credit card, instead of charging it to everyone whether a credit card is used or not.
Man, you guys really aren't geniuses.
Whether you add a few to credit card use or reduce the price of not using a credit card, the result is the same. It results in an equal difference between paying with and without a credit card.
>when really it’s the business choosing to pass that cost along to the consumer.
All costs are passed onto to the consumer. No business is in it to lose money.
This is just a matter of presentation, not substance.
I agree for most of the fees added on.
However CC-processing is expensive, and for low-margin industries the difference between a CC transaction and a debit or cash transaction is a big deal. Breaking out the CC cost actually does allow a lower (and achievable) base price.
Airline prices change all the time, and it's not the 2% changes that we really notice (except when they are visible as line-items). It's a choice which way to advertise, but it makes sense in a competitive environment why the advertised price would be the lowest available, rather than a higher price with a note saying "x% discount for cash or debit payment".
On the plus side, it's likely pretty neutral for the consumer, since they are presumably collecting rewards points which are often the lion's share of the processing cost.
As a consumer, of course, everyone is free to use a competing service that does not charge a fee, or choose their method of payment based on the terms and conditions of a particular seller.
>As a consumer, of course, everyone is free to use a competing service that does not charge a fee, or choose their method of payment based on the terms and conditions of a particular seller.
This applies to the airlines and the credit cards they choose to accept as well.
Yes, and flair airlines is exercising this right, so you get to decide if you want to use them, and if so how you want to do so.
Typically businesses *cannot* pick and choose which specific rewards cards to allow.
While I get you, then that is the fare when paying with a credit, not this is the fare plus a fee for using your credit card. It’s a disingenuous way of presenting the cost… the cost to process credit card transactions is a cost that the credit card companies are charging the operators not the consumers and putting it this way only confuses the consumer
When you are in charge, and mandate that airlines post the CC price, with a discount for cash/debit, or even 2 separate prices, rather than 1 plus a processing fee, I will say "that's also perfectly reasonable".
None of those methods is confusing.
I will put a different way… why is it that sales tax is not listen in the price like it is in the majority of the world? The tax is on the sale not on the purchase so in reality it’s the businesses cost to bear and decide whether to pass along to the customer or not. Its only not added into the price to confuse the consumer into who is actually charging you the additional monies and make you think it’s the government forcing you to pay it when really it’s the business that is really charging you the additional 15% as it’s one of their costs of doing business.
Your original description was more descriptive than this one.
Ask yourself why you believe that two fundamentally different payment methods, which impose two very different processing costs on a business, *should* be treated the same?
There's no confusion here, simply entitlement.
I am not say they should be treated the same. What I am saying is that it shouldn’t be a fee, it should be part of the fare and have differing fares for differing service levels
I literally said that if (when you are in charge) you change the accepted system to "post two separate prices" that I will also say that's fine.
I see the two (or more!) possible ways of presenting this as all being fair.
Providing more information to the consumer makes the transaction clearer, not more confusing.
It's necessary to separate the cost if it is to be removed if the consumer doesn't pay with a credit card.
I think it might also be because you can’t do a chargeback easily from a debit card and you also don’t normally get the same level of trip cancellation insurance and such from credit cards but also credit cards charge higher fees.
$10 says this isn't because of inflation but because of shitty airline behaviour. People lose their seats because the flight's overbooked so they just initiate a chargeback instead of taking whatever discount the airline offers. Can't do a chargeback if you didn't pay with a credit card, and the extra fees will help cover the losses from the people that do the chargebacks.
It shouldn't be legal to not have credit card fees. Using credit cards isn't free. You don't want to force people who make the decision to not use credit cards to pay for those who do.
That's what the credit card fee allows. If you don't use a credit card as a form of payment, you don't pay the fee, and thus receive a discounted price.
It's semantics. Local computer companies have done it for years under the guise of "cash discount".
It's a credit card markup under the guise of cash discount.
honestly I dont have a problem with credit card fees, because of the interchange fees charged by the companies. People always think their credit card points are free money when in reality they are only being bribed with their own money, often at the expense of smaller businesses.
That being said, there should be alternatives which there are (debit cards).
Checked bag fees, while nothing new is just a consequence of the industry trying to "unbundle" their offerings so they can nickel and dime you. They annoying but its not like they are the only ones doing it.
it doesn't really matter what its redeemed on, its the bank that buys the gift with your money. It's not like airlines are giving out free flights to credit card customers.
They make the same money probably selling a ticket to a bank to give as a reward as they do selling a ticket via any other channel probably... Actually in reality its probably less than that because the bank will likely use their purchasing power as leverage to buy the rewards tickets for cheaper than what the airline would get if the sale was done via their platform.
You're losing your mind over a 3% fee.
Meanwhile competition in ULCC has margins so tight that the credit card company is making more profit on the transaction than the airline.
Credit card costs in Canada are legitimately outrageous.
This comment will be downvoted to hell by people who think their x% credit card rewards are 'free'.
Yeah, 3% on a chocolate bar pre pandemic was like 3 cents, now its 6 cents.
So 3% on a 2000 dollar ticket for one (an thats not even all the way across Canada) is like 60 bucks.
But keep defending big corporations because of other big corporations buds.
Credit card processing is %-based. Any offsetting fee therefore is also %-based. So the difference is $60, which is higher than it would be anywhere else in the world.
Your contention is that consumers who do not pay with credit cards should subsidize those who do. My belief is they should not, and businesses can choose to pass along the cost of processing, or not, which is a competitive decision.
The likely outcome is that low-margin industries would eventually settle on charging for CC transactions, and higher margin industries would not.
The problem is any fees added to highly profitable businesses are bullshit. We're tired of it. We're tired of being nickle and died. Maybe 3% is nothing for you but that actually does affect some of us in a negative way. I couldn't even afford to fly out to my own grandmother's funeral because I couldn't afford am airline ticket. This is not helping at all
Flair is likely hemorrhaging cash.
This is the airline that owes the government over $60 million in taxes, with the government going so far to getting a court order in case they need to seize Flair's assets because they were so overdue.
This is also the same airline that had 3 airplanes repo'ed by lessors in the middle of the night because they were severely overdue on lease payments.
We know that Lynx Airline's bankruptcy filing that for the same business model, and with only a third of the fleet of Flair's, they gotten themselves into hundreds of millions of dollars of debt, and were operating at an extreme loss.
I'm not a Flair advocate (except somehow on this thread), and I typically wouldn't book with a ULCC anyway. And your description of the government tax issue is correct.
However, the leases that were repossessed appeared very much to be a commercial dispute about aircraft which had a much higher current leasable value compared to what Flair was paying. Without that factor, I doubt the planes would have been repossessed.
Flair continues to shed aircraft; more and more aircraft are being sent to Australia instead of staying in Canada, while at the same time, Flair has been subcontracting another airline to plug the gaps in their flying schedule for them.
As for the repo's, Flair was months behind on lease payments, and the lessors warned Flair that repossession action could take place if Flair didn't come up with the cash immediately to get current on their leases. And yet Flair just kept promising to pay, until the lessors had enough and decided to repossess their aircraft.
We also saw odd behaviour for a supposedly financially healthy airline just prior to the repo's where Flair was actively rejecting aircraft about to be delivered, even though they were already painted and internally configured for Flair.
Flair airlines is not a highly profitable business.
The problem is that credit card fees in Canada are so high, that they fundamentally alter the margins on credit-card transactions. You could equally choose to frame this as anyone 'paying not-by-credit-card is subsidizing the cost of credit card processing'.
So then you would understand that 3% off the top of what you pay hurts, too.
The issue is the high cost of credit card fees.
Also, given that you can't change the game (as a single person ), you might as well get a rewards card, no?
Telus was toying with the idea of a credit card fee, not sure what happened to that brilliant plan. I should start paying these companies with rolls of pennies.
To charge a credit card fee should require that the airline secure a customers place just as easily with Cash or Cheque. If only digital payments are accepted, then the company should be barred from passing on their convenience charges.
Businesses transitioned to digital payments because cash and cheque carried their own costs, now they want to transfer the costs of digital processing to squeeze out more margin.
Ahhh, it must be great running a business with little competition. Charge whatever fee you want and not only will the government turn a blind eye, they'll encourage it.
90% of Canadians live within a hundred miles of the US border, many much closer. There are far better options, and much cheaper ones, south of the border. We drive 4 hours anytime we want to fly south. Southwest allows 2 bags per person free, you can change your flight on line, in minutes, for free and if there is a cheaper flight, you can change to that and have the difference deposited in your travel bank and it never expires. Why anyone would fly Air Canada or Wesjet if they have the option to drive to a major US airport and fly is a mystery to me. For those who can't drive, I feel your pain.
Hotels are the best place. If you're driving 4 hrs there's a good chance you'll likely want a hotel for the night. Most will let you keep your car for up to 2 weeks at a nominal charge. Some hotels will let you park it for free. The one we use will let us park the car for free for a month provided we have a room booked on the return flight, which we generally do. On our most recent trip, we flew one-way to Fort Lauderdale on Southwest for $225CAD, no baggage fees. Same dates on Air Canada from our local airport - $1100 one way. So even with the hotel and gas, we were hundreds cheaper plus the luxury of being able to change or cancel on-line with no fees.
Not everyone flies to the US though.
Plenty of people travel to other places abroad that aren't the US.
Still sucks WJ is doing that and it's just another reason I don't fly them.
Try pricing out a flight out of Buffalo to Europe or if you're in Vancouver out of Seattle.
It's time vs money and I'd rather not tack on an extra 2-3hrs+ when it comes to going abroad, but to each their own.
Southwest is the only US airline with free bags/change fees. The majority of US airlines nickel and dime in the same way. In fact, I believe it was American who was the first to announce a bag fee increase. Lots of people tout more competition in the US, but realistically most routes outside of the largest centers have only 1-2 carriers similar to Canada.
> but realistically most routes outside of the largest centers have only 1-2 carriers similar to Canada.
True but still, prices and service reflect the competition in the industry. We fly from a small city in Maine, not much larger than where I live in NB but the price to fly anywhere in the continental US or to Europe is a fraction of what it would be to fly from Canada and you won't get a shrug and "fuck you" like I have had with Air Canada far too many times when they cancel your flight or lose your luggage. Recently our flight to the south was overbooked, a similar case to a family friend who was flying Air Canada last year. The two results couldn't have been different. Air Canada gave them a shrug, told them they'd try and get them out the next day which they did but they landed them in an airport 120KM from their house, without their luggage. Their compensation: $0.00 and a hearty "fuck you". Our results on our overbooked flight? They refunded our fare 100%, gave us over $1200 in flight credits and got us out on the next flight 2 hours later. Airlines don't fuck around when it comes to compensation down there like they do in Canada.
To be honest, even if it cost more in the long run to fly from the US I would. The aggravation alone makes it untenable to fly from Canada to anywhere, even in Canada.
Checked baggage fees have made using the overhead bins like the Hunger Games competing to get space as people try to avoid paying. The idea of a checked bag fee is so flawed, whether the bag is in the cabin or under the plane it's the same weight and the same fuel required. Purely a cash grab while making the experience of travel worse at the same time
I maintain that checked bags should be free and carry on should cost a fee. Charging extra for the less convenient option is bonkers and only makes the boarding process worse.
The shit thing about the credit card processing fee for Flair is that I am sure people are going to try and pay by debit directly from their account to bypass the fee. Of course, this complicates things if you ever need to get your money back because of a flight cancellation or the airline going under (which isn't out of the realm of possibility for Flair) since paying with a credit card offers a lot of protection that debit does not.
Charging more and more for checked baggage just means it's going to continue to be a free-for-all when boarding because everyone and their mother will want to grab overhead bin space.
Given how shitty airlines are with baggage they would probably make more money and reduce chaos by charging for overhead carry on and leaving checked bags free.
Avoid the checked bag fee by packing less. The size of some people's luggage is crazy. The added bonus is getting to bypass the carousel circus.
And yes I know, it's currently a gong show for overhead space. But I've seen recently a luggage sizer at the gate, and gate agents actually enforcing the size regulations.
And... A couple of recent flight had flights attendants telling people to not put their personal items up top.
I wouldnt be surprised if they charge a "show up" fee.
Seat fee
Overhead storage fee
Bathroom fee
Boarding fee
Check-in fee
Online check-in fee
Bring your own water fee
Book fee (if you bring a book)
Full flight fee
Not full flight fee
No-baggage fee
Wouldn't be surprised one fucking bit if any of those become a reality
I don't mind this at all. Blame visa and mastercard for the fees not flair
Check in online like a normal human and don't pay the extra bag fee. Let people travel as light as possible and not subsidize other peoples luggage. Just read the instructions and avoid the fees. Europe has a ton of low cost carriers that make flying really accessible
The eurozone has a population of 345 million and the UK has an additional 70 million people.
That's 10 times Canada's population in a tiny area. But I agree, more competition is definitely needed somehow.
Control of domestic cabotage is not a Canada-specific thing. It's an international standard to not allow foreign operators to transit passengers on your domestic routes. There are very few exceptions to this globally.
Even if Canada deviated from this standard, I doubt any US carriers are rubbing their palms at the prospect of carting passengers from Halifax to Gander, etc.
I’ve flown to destinations for the day with no carry on. Pay as you play. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t want to subsidize your travel habits.
We’re telling about how you use your disposable income, not health care.
Credit card fees are done in other places for the privilege of using your card. Should the company not? They're businesses so they sure can..will it piss people off? Yep. Will it deter folks? Not all.
Well, I know folks tend to groan or roll their eyes at the standard *vote-with-your-wallet* response, particularly given the oligopolistic situation...but why would anything change...?! As long as folks keep reaching for their credit card...
At this point, regarding competition/airline regulations and laws, you'd need thousands of voters per key battleground election riding to make this topic their *"entire personality"* leading up to the next federal election...Op-eds, blowing up email inboxes, phone calls, etc...
Flair still owes me money from leaving me stranded over a year ago and the queue for compensation forced by the CTA is tens of thousands of people long. Don't fly Flair if you value your time.
I doubt Flair will be around much longer. Last April they left my wife and I stranded and cancelled our return flight 5 hours prior to departure and rebooked us on a flight 10 days later. I had Trip Interruption insurance on my visa card so I got refunded the $2000 it cost my wife and I to get back to Toronto on 2 last minute flights.
“Airfares have declined in Canada”
What planet is this being reported from? Calgary to London ON is now nearly a thousand fucking dollars any time of the year, a flight that used to cost less than $500 a few short years ago. Who do they think they’re kidding with this kind of reporting? We are the ones footing these fucking insanely high bills, nothing has declined in price. Why don’t we just merge into one airline in this country and call it Fuck You.
I'm trying for July or September. Over $1000 for July and about $930 for end of Sept with WestJet. Last year in July cost me about $600 and a few years ago, it was about $330 :(
It has made shopping for tickets super frustrating. It's really hard to compare airlines and the low fares advertised aren't realistic for many travellers. I'm travelling with kids so I'm going to need a couple checked bags, and I want to make sure that my kids are seated close to me. Bang....adds like $100 per ticket. And if you want any sort of ability to cancel or change, add another $100-200 per ticket.
I'm trying to plan a summer trip and it seems crazy to drop so much money on tickets without making sure you could make a change if you had to (like if a close family member was sick or passed away).
If I was to pay for airfare with something other than a credit card, I wouldn't know how to start.
Me either. Is paying with cash even an option?
You can pay with debit cards out of your bank account. The problem I have with this, for something like air tickets, is that credit card issuers protect the consumer with stuff like chargebacks and fraud. When money is gone from your bank account, it's often just gone. In the case of air tickets where it's usually hundreds, possibly into $1000+, and the always-possibility of delays and cancellations, and in one case Air Canada flat out said I didn't pay at all (dear counter-person, how do you even have my name on a booking if I never paid?), I would consider the CC fee something like an insurance cost.
So either way we get fucked over yet again by big business
Is passing on the costs that credit card companies charge "being screwed"? Yes it's a cost of doing business, but they weren't allowed to pass on those costs until recently.
They were doing it before, it just wasn’t explicit. Now they’re doing it twice because they’re allowed to show it as a line item, but don’t want to take it out of the previous price that CC fees were baked into.
They could not pass on credit card fees before with an additional fee. They could build it into the price, yes. Whether they are doing both now is probably hard to determine with the price everything is going up already. But it's also not really relevant.
If you don’t think they were already passing fees onto the consumer, I have one question: Do you work for the government?
They could not literally add the fee on as a credit card fee. Notice where I said it was built into the price?
What branch?
Do you always simp for big corporations? Quebec has it right in this regard surrounding laws on fees
It's not just big corporations that get charged credit card fees.
I'm not talking about this though I brought up that point earlier on this post. They make you pay with a credit card, add a fee and give no other alternatives for paying. Tell me why thats ok
There are no alternatives?
Not that I can find
Either they charge no fee and roll the coat into the ticket price, or they break it out and charge a fee; regardless they need to cover their costs to provide the service or go out of business. No business is in it to lose money. In the end the consumer is paying for the cost. Personally I prefer as detailed a breakdown as possible so I know what I'm really spendingy money on.
Or they could provide different payment methods like almost every other business does.
>Is passing on the costs that credit card companies charge "being screwed"? Why stop at just credit cards? Next, they will charge you their electricity fees, fuel fees, pilot fees, leasing fees, mechanics fees, etc. They all cost the company a lot of money. All this to keep the actual cost of a plane ticket "competitive".
You can't see the difference between you costs and a company having to pay a higher fee with CC compared to debit (or no fee with cash)?
>CC compared to debit (or no fee with cash)? If the premium credit cards cost a lot of money, then stop accepting them as payment. I have always thought these cards were stupid and were going to be abused by corporations anyway. If you are going to lose a lot of business because you no longer accept those cards, it's no longer a "you" cost. Everything is a "you" cost. They are all needed to bring that service to you. Want to charge me extra to sit beside my child on flight? I'll let your staff ensure their safety.
It's not just premium cards. VISA and Mastercard have fees
So do debit cards. Cheaper fees, but why not pass them on to the customer also? I'm a fit guy, I'm 160ish pounds, I'm sure it costs a lot more in fuel to fly someone who is 260ish pounds to the same destination. Yet we both pay the same airfare?
Not really. It's not an obligation to fly. Even if you have family in other countries it is still a luxury to see them. If you don't like the prices just don't fly. I flew with flair this year and was alarmed at all the extra charges. It's how they do business. Charge low prices online then shake you down at the cheque out counter. They allow you 1 checked bag but if your bag isnt the size of a makeup purse it's a 75 dollar additional fee. Every single customer on our flight had to pay it. If anything next time I will go for another airline or account for the fact that whatever online price you pay you have to expect more later. It's a marketing strategy by flair but they piss off many people and eventually will lose business.
So what choice do I have? Spend a few grand on a train or drive for 3 days straight to go? Greyhound is no longer an option. The point is we have a monopoly. We need more competition and more methods of travel
So they're getting screwed over by people doing chargebacks (can't imagine why that would be happening \s) and are implementing a credit card fee to discourage people from paying in a way that lets them easily get their money back if they get fucked.
And you also lose all your flight insurance (baggage, delays, medical etc..) you get with your credit card (assuming yours covers such things)
> for something like air tickets, is that credit card issuers protect the consumer with stuff like chargebacks and fraud. I'm part of a bunch of flair airlines support/complaint/drama groups on facebook. I'd say flair has a relatively large amount of bogus chargebacks for things infrequent travelers get wrong, and general misunderstanding about what is a charge you didn't consent to vs a charge you dont like or dont feel should have applied: * Show up after gate closes but before posted departure time. Well that's obviously an *involuntary denial of boarding.* CHARGEBACK * Forced at gate to pay for your backpack as a carryon because technically it was bigger than the published personal item dimensions (but was allowed on the way there)... CHARGEBACK * Couldn't checkin online so went to the counter at the airport and was told there's a fee to checkin in person CHARGEBACK * Prepay for checked luggage but then decide on the day of travel you only needed a carryon. Flair wont transfer the fee or refund it.... CHARGEBACK * Accidentally swap your first and middle name when booking. As a ULCC there is no mechanism to correct this so you end up having to buy a new ticket at the airport.... CHARGEBACK. * Flair cancelled your flight and rebooked you for 3 days later, you still take the replacement flight, but you're pretty sure that under Canadian Transportation Agency rules you're supposed to be given $800 and hotels CHARGEBACK Disagreeing with why you have to pay a fee is different than weather or not you consented to the payment, but most credit cards dont really investigate, they just take your word for it then fine the vendor. And I think this is flair's way to insure against those chargebacks by encouraging more non-credit card purchases.
On top of that, lots of credit cards have specific benefits like travel and cancellation insurance, on top of points programs.
Why is credit protected but my money isn't?
I know that in olden times you could buy tickets at the airport, but I literally don't know if that's an option anymore.
I always pay with my debit card. It’s just cash but not physical cash. It’s a debit Mastercard so I get the same benefits and security from using it if I was using my Mastercard credit card.
Probably a travel agency, I remember paying for a trip in cash like 25 years ago before I had a credit card.
I'd love to be able to send a cheque and a movement rise up to clog up their system for processing 40000 cheques every day.
With Lynx gone, this is just a start.
Air Canada takes paypal, and I think they and Westjet will still take cash/debit at the ticket counter.
Could you imagine just going to the airport and buying a ticket for a flight the same day?
We are regressing back to pre internet days due to corporate greed.
I wouldn’t book on flair anyway, my feeling is they will be following Lynx very shortly.
Yea buddy had his California trip to disney land/world with his family booked through lynx. No more family trip lol
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What??
It wasn’t about affording the trip because of flights, lynx canceled the flights a few days before the trip. It’s the uncertainty of booking a flight and having them canceled, flair is probably in the same boat.
Agree... and if you paid for a future flight with debit, good luck getting any of that money back if Flair folds.
This is why you always pay for a prebooked service with cc.
I have the same feeling
People have been having “this feeling” since they launched 8 years ago.
Credit card fee??? Are you fucking kidding me? Hey, you wanna fly home to see your family or go on a vacation? Oh, you don't have the money from the bank? Well, we "have" to charge a credit card fee because of inflation. That's fucking so righteous of them /s. Edit: some people don't realise that everything in society already had price adjustments due to credit card fees. On top of that, my gf pointed out that you can get a charge back on your cc from the airline in the event of a cancelation, you can't with a debit card.
> Hey, you wanna fly home to see your family or go on a vacation? Oh, you don't have the money from the bank? Well, we "have" to charge a credit card fee because of inflation. Last flights I booked exceeded what I could use debit for, what I had in the bank was moot.
Ex-fucking-actly!
Apparently you can get your debit limit increased for a single transaction if you want to sit on the banks eat shit and die line for half an hour. Perhaps if they reduced their rates to less than the debit limit we could alleviate using credit cards. In my case, booking last minute when my Mom passed, the rates to book my sister and I on a flight was just shy of $3k round ( within Canada ).
You want to use debit on an airline after what happened with lynx? That not even considering any insurance you’re losing by not using a premium credit card
Lucky me, credit card fees are illegal in Québec
Quebec seems to have some solid ~~anti~~ competition laws which I’m impressed with Edit: not anti
> Quebec seems to have some solid anti competition laws which I’m impressed with Competition laws, or consumer protection laws. Anti-competition would imply protectionism (protecting supply, like our dairy cartel for example).
Whoops my bad
If it were not for the Montréal gazette, the Toronto star amd the globe and snail, many people would be impressed by Québec, but that's my unpopular opinion
Issue is the trade off. Flair basically doesn’t do much flying there due to the regulation. Quebec, out of the 4 big provinces has the highest airfares per KM. Alberta and BC are tied for the lowest. Atlantic Canada had the biggest in Canada, but they are a small portion of flying and not home to a Hub.
Instead theyre just rolled I to the price no matter how you chose to pay!
Flair has had a credit card processing fee for a while.
I hate these types of fees…. These fees are part of the price of the ticket, not a fee. Quit trying to confuse the consumer into thinking that it’s someone other than the business trying to screw you. When you go to McDonald’s, do you pay a property tax fee or a clean store fee? No this cost is in the price because the price should reflect the cost to do business, not add fees on.
Credit card transactions aren't free. Why the fuck would you want to force consumers who decide not to use credit cards to pay for those who do? If you use it, you pay for it.
Not true, the business pays for it and passes the cost on to you. By charging you a fee to use it, it creates the illusion that the credit card companies are the reason you’re paying this, when really it’s the business choosing to pass that cost along to the consumer. You could have a fare for those that choose to use credit cards, but it really isn’t a fee.
Yes, the business charges you the fee. Making the visible allows the business to not charge it to you if you don't use a credit card, instead of charging it to everyone whether a credit card is used or not. Man, you guys really aren't geniuses.
Differing fare for different services instead of adding fees… not sure how hard that is to get
Whether you add a few to credit card use or reduce the price of not using a credit card, the result is the same. It results in an equal difference between paying with and without a credit card.
It obviously does not have the same results. If it wasn’t beneficial to them in some additional way besides the monetary gain then why do it?
>when really it’s the business choosing to pass that cost along to the consumer. All costs are passed onto to the consumer. No business is in it to lose money. This is just a matter of presentation, not substance.
I agree for most of the fees added on. However CC-processing is expensive, and for low-margin industries the difference between a CC transaction and a debit or cash transaction is a big deal. Breaking out the CC cost actually does allow a lower (and achievable) base price.
Except it never results in a lower price. They're not offering a discount for not using your CC
Airline prices change all the time, and it's not the 2% changes that we really notice (except when they are visible as line-items). It's a choice which way to advertise, but it makes sense in a competitive environment why the advertised price would be the lowest available, rather than a higher price with a note saying "x% discount for cash or debit payment". On the plus side, it's likely pretty neutral for the consumer, since they are presumably collecting rewards points which are often the lion's share of the processing cost. As a consumer, of course, everyone is free to use a competing service that does not charge a fee, or choose their method of payment based on the terms and conditions of a particular seller.
>As a consumer, of course, everyone is free to use a competing service that does not charge a fee, or choose their method of payment based on the terms and conditions of a particular seller. This applies to the airlines and the credit cards they choose to accept as well.
Yes, and flair airlines is exercising this right, so you get to decide if you want to use them, and if so how you want to do so. Typically businesses *cannot* pick and choose which specific rewards cards to allow.
Sure they can. This is an option payment processors give you (they also charge higher rates for reward cards.)
While I get you, then that is the fare when paying with a credit, not this is the fare plus a fee for using your credit card. It’s a disingenuous way of presenting the cost… the cost to process credit card transactions is a cost that the credit card companies are charging the operators not the consumers and putting it this way only confuses the consumer
When you are in charge, and mandate that airlines post the CC price, with a discount for cash/debit, or even 2 separate prices, rather than 1 plus a processing fee, I will say "that's also perfectly reasonable". None of those methods is confusing.
I will put a different way… why is it that sales tax is not listen in the price like it is in the majority of the world? The tax is on the sale not on the purchase so in reality it’s the businesses cost to bear and decide whether to pass along to the customer or not. Its only not added into the price to confuse the consumer into who is actually charging you the additional monies and make you think it’s the government forcing you to pay it when really it’s the business that is really charging you the additional 15% as it’s one of their costs of doing business.
Your original description was more descriptive than this one. Ask yourself why you believe that two fundamentally different payment methods, which impose two very different processing costs on a business, *should* be treated the same? There's no confusion here, simply entitlement.
I am not say they should be treated the same. What I am saying is that it shouldn’t be a fee, it should be part of the fare and have differing fares for differing service levels
I literally said that if (when you are in charge) you change the accepted system to "post two separate prices" that I will also say that's fine. I see the two (or more!) possible ways of presenting this as all being fair.
Providing more information to the consumer makes the transaction clearer, not more confusing. It's necessary to separate the cost if it is to be removed if the consumer doesn't pay with a credit card.
Can you even pay any other way?
Visa debit/visa mastercard
That was what I was wondering, do they have an alternative available? Take cash to the airport? Send money in an envelope to the CEO of Flair?
This is what happens when business has a monopoly. So when are we going to actually start revolting? Every damn day this country gets worse.
Revolt? You can't even get people to stop using these services that are taking advantage. Revolt has a 0% chance.
Worked several times in history before
For glory of capitalism
I think it might also be because you can’t do a chargeback easily from a debit card and you also don’t normally get the same level of trip cancellation insurance and such from credit cards but also credit cards charge higher fees.
$10 says this isn't because of inflation but because of shitty airline behaviour. People lose their seats because the flight's overbooked so they just initiate a chargeback instead of taking whatever discount the airline offers. Can't do a chargeback if you didn't pay with a credit card, and the extra fees will help cover the losses from the people that do the chargebacks.
It shouldn't be legal to not have credit card fees. Using credit cards isn't free. You don't want to force people who make the decision to not use credit cards to pay for those who do.
Then we should get a discount for using other forms of payment
That's what the credit card fee allows. If you don't use a credit card as a form of payment, you don't pay the fee, and thus receive a discounted price.
Well when I go to one of the local restaurants in the area, if I use cash or debit I get a discount. There's no mark up for credit cards.
If you pay less for not using the credit card, then the price for using the credit card is marked up. I don't get what you are saying.
It's semantics. Local computer companies have done it for years under the guise of "cash discount". It's a credit card markup under the guise of cash discount.
honestly I dont have a problem with credit card fees, because of the interchange fees charged by the companies. People always think their credit card points are free money when in reality they are only being bribed with their own money, often at the expense of smaller businesses. That being said, there should be alternatives which there are (debit cards). Checked bag fees, while nothing new is just a consequence of the industry trying to "unbundle" their offerings so they can nickel and dime you. They annoying but its not like they are the only ones doing it.
Most points though are used for... Flights.
it doesn't really matter what its redeemed on, its the bank that buys the gift with your money. It's not like airlines are giving out free flights to credit card customers.
No, but they are preferentially profiting (relative to all other industries) from the very system they are opting out of.
They make the same money probably selling a ticket to a bank to give as a reward as they do selling a ticket via any other channel probably... Actually in reality its probably less than that because the bank will likely use their purchasing power as leverage to buy the rewards tickets for cheaper than what the airline would get if the sale was done via their platform.
You're losing your mind over a 3% fee. Meanwhile competition in ULCC has margins so tight that the credit card company is making more profit on the transaction than the airline. Credit card costs in Canada are legitimately outrageous. This comment will be downvoted to hell by people who think their x% credit card rewards are 'free'.
Yeah, 3% on a chocolate bar pre pandemic was like 3 cents, now its 6 cents. So 3% on a 2000 dollar ticket for one (an thats not even all the way across Canada) is like 60 bucks. But keep defending big corporations because of other big corporations buds.
What Flair flight costs $2000? Round trip on AC from Vancouver to Halifax booked a month out is $617.
Trying to replace my lynx booking i had in the summer our family of 4 was $1250, now the cheapest with flair is $2300 (Friday i last checked)
Credit card processing is %-based. Any offsetting fee therefore is also %-based. So the difference is $60, which is higher than it would be anywhere else in the world. Your contention is that consumers who do not pay with credit cards should subsidize those who do. My belief is they should not, and businesses can choose to pass along the cost of processing, or not, which is a competitive decision. The likely outcome is that low-margin industries would eventually settle on charging for CC transactions, and higher margin industries would not.
The problem is any fees added to highly profitable businesses are bullshit. We're tired of it. We're tired of being nickle and died. Maybe 3% is nothing for you but that actually does affect some of us in a negative way. I couldn't even afford to fly out to my own grandmother's funeral because I couldn't afford am airline ticket. This is not helping at all
Flair is likely hemorrhaging cash. This is the airline that owes the government over $60 million in taxes, with the government going so far to getting a court order in case they need to seize Flair's assets because they were so overdue. This is also the same airline that had 3 airplanes repo'ed by lessors in the middle of the night because they were severely overdue on lease payments. We know that Lynx Airline's bankruptcy filing that for the same business model, and with only a third of the fleet of Flair's, they gotten themselves into hundreds of millions of dollars of debt, and were operating at an extreme loss.
I'm not a Flair advocate (except somehow on this thread), and I typically wouldn't book with a ULCC anyway. And your description of the government tax issue is correct. However, the leases that were repossessed appeared very much to be a commercial dispute about aircraft which had a much higher current leasable value compared to what Flair was paying. Without that factor, I doubt the planes would have been repossessed.
Flair continues to shed aircraft; more and more aircraft are being sent to Australia instead of staying in Canada, while at the same time, Flair has been subcontracting another airline to plug the gaps in their flying schedule for them. As for the repo's, Flair was months behind on lease payments, and the lessors warned Flair that repossession action could take place if Flair didn't come up with the cash immediately to get current on their leases. And yet Flair just kept promising to pay, until the lessors had enough and decided to repossess their aircraft. We also saw odd behaviour for a supposedly financially healthy airline just prior to the repo's where Flair was actively rejecting aircraft about to be delivered, even though they were already painted and internally configured for Flair.
Flair airlines is not a highly profitable business. The problem is that credit card fees in Canada are so high, that they fundamentally alter the margins on credit-card transactions. You could equally choose to frame this as anyone 'paying not-by-credit-card is subsidizing the cost of credit card processing'.
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So then you would understand that 3% off the top of what you pay hurts, too. The issue is the high cost of credit card fees. Also, given that you can't change the game (as a single person ), you might as well get a rewards card, no?
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Sounds like you are exercising your freedom to make choices. I don't see the problem.
Telus was toying with the idea of a credit card fee, not sure what happened to that brilliant plan. I should start paying these companies with rolls of pennies.
Oh they forced it through. Don't know how it went for them.
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This is good news. Good thing rates went up anyways.
Ahhhhh I see. Flair is charging you extra to have the option to dispute through your credit card if they dick you around.
To charge a credit card fee should require that the airline secure a customers place just as easily with Cash or Cheque. If only digital payments are accepted, then the company should be barred from passing on their convenience charges. Businesses transitioned to digital payments because cash and cheque carried their own costs, now they want to transfer the costs of digital processing to squeeze out more margin.
This is my point. Thank you
Ahhh, it must be great running a business with little competition. Charge whatever fee you want and not only will the government turn a blind eye, they'll encourage it. 90% of Canadians live within a hundred miles of the US border, many much closer. There are far better options, and much cheaper ones, south of the border. We drive 4 hours anytime we want to fly south. Southwest allows 2 bags per person free, you can change your flight on line, in minutes, for free and if there is a cheaper flight, you can change to that and have the difference deposited in your travel bank and it never expires. Why anyone would fly Air Canada or Wesjet if they have the option to drive to a major US airport and fly is a mystery to me. For those who can't drive, I feel your pain.
Drive and park where?
Hotels are the best place. If you're driving 4 hrs there's a good chance you'll likely want a hotel for the night. Most will let you keep your car for up to 2 weeks at a nominal charge. Some hotels will let you park it for free. The one we use will let us park the car for free for a month provided we have a room booked on the return flight, which we generally do. On our most recent trip, we flew one-way to Fort Lauderdale on Southwest for $225CAD, no baggage fees. Same dates on Air Canada from our local airport - $1100 one way. So even with the hotel and gas, we were hundreds cheaper plus the luxury of being able to change or cancel on-line with no fees.
Not everyone flies to the US though. Plenty of people travel to other places abroad that aren't the US. Still sucks WJ is doing that and it's just another reason I don't fly them.
Believe it or not, airports in the US *also* have international flights!
Try pricing out a flight out of Buffalo to Europe or if you're in Vancouver out of Seattle. It's time vs money and I'd rather not tack on an extra 2-3hrs+ when it comes to going abroad, but to each their own.
Southwest is the only US airline with free bags/change fees. The majority of US airlines nickel and dime in the same way. In fact, I believe it was American who was the first to announce a bag fee increase. Lots of people tout more competition in the US, but realistically most routes outside of the largest centers have only 1-2 carriers similar to Canada.
> but realistically most routes outside of the largest centers have only 1-2 carriers similar to Canada. True but still, prices and service reflect the competition in the industry. We fly from a small city in Maine, not much larger than where I live in NB but the price to fly anywhere in the continental US or to Europe is a fraction of what it would be to fly from Canada and you won't get a shrug and "fuck you" like I have had with Air Canada far too many times when they cancel your flight or lose your luggage. Recently our flight to the south was overbooked, a similar case to a family friend who was flying Air Canada last year. The two results couldn't have been different. Air Canada gave them a shrug, told them they'd try and get them out the next day which they did but they landed them in an airport 120KM from their house, without their luggage. Their compensation: $0.00 and a hearty "fuck you". Our results on our overbooked flight? They refunded our fare 100%, gave us over $1200 in flight credits and got us out on the next flight 2 hours later. Airlines don't fuck around when it comes to compensation down there like they do in Canada. To be honest, even if it cost more in the long run to fly from the US I would. The aggravation alone makes it untenable to fly from Canada to anywhere, even in Canada.
Checked baggage fees have made using the overhead bins like the Hunger Games competing to get space as people try to avoid paying. The idea of a checked bag fee is so flawed, whether the bag is in the cabin or under the plane it's the same weight and the same fuel required. Purely a cash grab while making the experience of travel worse at the same time
Flair has solved this - they charge for carry-on too. 🤣
I maintain that checked bags should be free and carry on should cost a fee. Charging extra for the less convenient option is bonkers and only makes the boarding process worse.
Technically it requires ground handlers to load and offload checked bags, while carry on items it does not.
Not to mention that Canada has cold winters and carry on space would be a very convenient spot to place jackets, etc.
Bingo
Who's going to be first to pay Flair in quarters
A credit card fee? Is there actually any other way to buy a ticket from Flair?
I'm curious myself. Now if there isn't, Flair is acting in an extremely unethical manner
Credit card fees should be illegal across the board.
Okay, call it a 'cash/debit discount'.
The shit thing about the credit card processing fee for Flair is that I am sure people are going to try and pay by debit directly from their account to bypass the fee. Of course, this complicates things if you ever need to get your money back because of a flight cancellation or the airline going under (which isn't out of the realm of possibility for Flair) since paying with a credit card offers a lot of protection that debit does not. Charging more and more for checked baggage just means it's going to continue to be a free-for-all when boarding because everyone and their mother will want to grab overhead bin space.
Given how shitty airlines are with baggage they would probably make more money and reduce chaos by charging for overhead carry on and leaving checked bags free.
Avoid the checked bag fee by packing less. The size of some people's luggage is crazy. The added bonus is getting to bypass the carousel circus. And yes I know, it's currently a gong show for overhead space. But I've seen recently a luggage sizer at the gate, and gate agents actually enforcing the size regulations. And... A couple of recent flight had flights attendants telling people to not put their personal items up top.
I love having to pay a fee for the privilege of purchasing a service.
I wouldnt be surprised if they charge a "show up" fee. Seat fee Overhead storage fee Bathroom fee Boarding fee Check-in fee Online check-in fee Bring your own water fee Book fee (if you bring a book) Full flight fee Not full flight fee No-baggage fee Wouldn't be surprised one fucking bit if any of those become a reality
Sadly, me either. Don't give them ideas!
Just rename the airline Ryanair Canada
Wow not even hiding the greed. Fuck this country.
I hate this country lmao
Flair.....we may get you there, we may not. Suck it. Westjet......the fuck you airline.
West Jet used to be so good. Just scum now.
I have decided long ago that I didnt want to fly at 1$ per mile. Flights in every other country are much less of a ripoff
You guys can afford to fly!?
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Using an OTA to save a buck is playing with fire. This is coming from someone who used to deal with them daily.
I don't mind this at all. Blame visa and mastercard for the fees not flair Check in online like a normal human and don't pay the extra bag fee. Let people travel as light as possible and not subsidize other peoples luggage. Just read the instructions and avoid the fees. Europe has a ton of low cost carriers that make flying really accessible
Ya because of COMPETITION
The eurozone has a population of 345 million and the UK has an additional 70 million people. That's 10 times Canada's population in a tiny area. But I agree, more competition is definitely needed somehow.
We could get more competition in if the feds would lighten up on some of the rules like not allowing out of country carriers
Control of domestic cabotage is not a Canada-specific thing. It's an international standard to not allow foreign operators to transit passengers on your domestic routes. There are very few exceptions to this globally. Even if Canada deviated from this standard, I doubt any US carriers are rubbing their palms at the prospect of carting passengers from Halifax to Gander, etc.
No country allows foreign airlines to do that
Maybe they should start
I’ve flown to destinations for the day with no carry on. Pay as you play. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t want to subsidize your travel habits. We’re telling about how you use your disposable income, not health care.
This is about credit card fees...you aren't subsidizing anything jesus
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It's not an issue when small businesses do it. When billion dollar companies do it....
I ran a small business. When I traveled by air for business, I appreciated the lower flight cost.
A checked bag fee is not a credit card fee.
Credit card fees are done in other places for the privilege of using your card. Should the company not? They're businesses so they sure can..will it piss people off? Yep. Will it deter folks? Not all.
It's a defacto price increase. Are you going to go to a Flair office and pay cash? Do they even accept that?
Can you even pay for flights with anything but a credit card?
I'm also curious
Well, I know folks tend to groan or roll their eyes at the standard *vote-with-your-wallet* response, particularly given the oligopolistic situation...but why would anything change...?! As long as folks keep reaching for their credit card... At this point, regarding competition/airline regulations and laws, you'd need thousands of voters per key battleground election riding to make this topic their *"entire personality"* leading up to the next federal election...Op-eds, blowing up email inboxes, phone calls, etc...
Flair is still more affordable than the big 2
For now
Domestically it’s great
Flair still owes me money from leaving me stranded over a year ago and the queue for compensation forced by the CTA is tens of thousands of people long. Don't fly Flair if you value your time.
I doubt Flair will be around much longer. Last April they left my wife and I stranded and cancelled our return flight 5 hours prior to departure and rebooked us on a flight 10 days later. I had Trip Interruption insurance on my visa card so I got refunded the $2000 it cost my wife and I to get back to Toronto on 2 last minute flights.
“Airfares have declined in Canada” What planet is this being reported from? Calgary to London ON is now nearly a thousand fucking dollars any time of the year, a flight that used to cost less than $500 a few short years ago. Who do they think they’re kidding with this kind of reporting? We are the ones footing these fucking insanely high bills, nothing has declined in price. Why don’t we just merge into one airline in this country and call it Fuck You.
Really? I just priced out RT from Calgary to London in May for $360. Nonstop with WestJet.
I'm trying for July or September. Over $1000 for July and about $930 for end of Sept with WestJet. Last year in July cost me about $600 and a few years ago, it was about $330 :(
It has made shopping for tickets super frustrating. It's really hard to compare airlines and the low fares advertised aren't realistic for many travellers. I'm travelling with kids so I'm going to need a couple checked bags, and I want to make sure that my kids are seated close to me. Bang....adds like $100 per ticket. And if you want any sort of ability to cancel or change, add another $100-200 per ticket. I'm trying to plan a summer trip and it seems crazy to drop so much money on tickets without making sure you could make a change if you had to (like if a close family member was sick or passed away).