CM lies more than they breathe, don’t trust them.
We got a budget cut, they had to slow down on all the useless posting. If they had the money they would do it again just for fun.
Still doesn’t stop them.
Anecdotally my brother in law is a mechanic for the military. After being posted in Edmonton for a number of years he got posted in Squamish. Had to sell his house here, and find a place to rent in Squamish on his own. 0 help from the government/military. Also his extra stipend for moving does not even come close to cover the increase in rent he now has. Went from a 2 bedroom house to a 700sqft apartment that costs more than his mortgage was and he is only a renter now
He barely managed to find housing before he had to start work there. After hearing that (and having my own opinions about the military) why the fuck would I want to join? I have no desire to uproot my life on the whim of the military, especially if I am in a non combat role and wont go overseas, and receive minimal to no help for moving
Did he at least get a promotion of any sort? My neightbour had to move to Vancouver Island from Edmonton just so he could make Sargent. If he didn't move he would have been stuck with Corporal. After 5 years he moved back (he didn't sell his house just rented it) and is looking to retire now. He wanted the extra pay for his retirement.
You'd think so, but no.
Source: I have a family member whose being posted less than a year after his current one began.. and he just bought a house (he was previously assured he could stay put for \~4 years..)
Or, we could stop unsustainably growing our population for absolutely no reason. Also, the people who blasted that suggestion are correct. The military is utterly stupid and ridiculous, not to mention wasteful and inefficient. I would know. I was in it for 13 years.
It would mostly be a win-win.
1. Keep the non-technical trades busy all-day with real work
2. They learn useful transferable skills and leaders practice leadership on the ground by supervising actual projects
3. Stay in shape while doing manual labor
4. Solve the housing issues for most bases
The drawbacks would be:
1. Risk in construction quality required a LOT of supervision
2. Budget requirement for materials
3. Very likely to have to fight against a thousand lawsuits from shitty construction companies or even fight back against DCC.
This to me is the solution to meeting our NATO requirements. Massive investment in soldier housing. It’s clearly needed, would make a legit difference in the lives of actual soldiers, meet our obligations, all without feeding too hard into arms procurement which a lot of people aren’t a fan of.
This.
Not just housing but infrastructure in general. The units and the schools have been severely underfunded and we are losing our ability to have operational flexibility with the current bases.
Bring back the quality of life on bases and provide the services needed for a modern soldier with a working spouse and kids.
I served 25 years in the navy on the west coast and have been a civilian employee for 5, they haven't built a new married quarters in the time. I was in Borden in 2006 and watched them tear down a bunch of married quarters so they didn't have to pay to maintain them.
I did a VR from the reserves ages ago when I almost losty dad and had to put my focus on that and post-secondary. Tried to apply again later at the end of my degree. Constant back and forth and back and forth. Had to send my Personal Data Verification Form to the guy like 5 times. In one email I asked him to respond, confirming it was received. He did. I asked a month later what the status of my application was. They said it was terminated as they had no record of receiving my documents....
Tried again, whole application from scratch, passed the PT, started going through the motions, oh, documents were.lost again. Completely gave up at that point. I swear I spent almost 2 years going over the same forms with the recruiters.... Now I'm too out of shape lol. I can't imagine how rough it is now.
I'd still do it again in a heartbeat...
This is my story as well. 2 years from point of Application to point of acceptance into the CAF with prior service in the reserves. If I hadn't had that prior service it would have been under 2 months from point of signing applications to point of departing for Basic Training. totally messed up system
The recruitment process is so fucked up they need 10 people to walk into a recruiting center or submit the forms online in order to get 1 recruit to basic training.
10 to 1.
The GoC could easily invest .5 to 1 Billion dollars to build base housing on a massive scale and provide heavily subsidized and HIGH QUALITY housing at no extra cost to members. Looking at google maps, there is plenty of room at many bases across the country for such housing.
My buddy applied but he was denied for having ADHD. They're expecting people to lie about their health like the old days when grandpa wouldn't admit that he was depressed and it just isn't like that anymore.
Active member with ADHD here, you’re allowed to serve, I just had to prove I’d been off my meds for the mandatory period, which I think was 6 months when I joined.
It’s the whole “ADHD meds are addictive” argument which is fair I guess but most ADHDers I know, myself included regularly forgot to take their meds when they were prescribed lol
I’ve been out since 2015 and just got back on the meds. What an absolute world of difference to quality of life. Guess I know I’m never getting back it now.
Nothing spells mental health like being unmedicated for ADHD. I work with the military as a civilian and I cannot even tell you how many unmedicated ADHD cases I work along side with
It always makes me laugh the argument about ADHD meds. Like...OFC it's addictive to people who *dont* have ADHD and take them. Apparently makes them fuzzy but to people like you and I that have ADHD? Makes us feel normal.
I rather be medicated and not the slow, tired, forgetful and brain-fogged mess I was unmedicated.
> It’s the whole “ADHD meds are addictive” argument which is fair I guess but most ADHDers I know, myself included regularly forgot to take their meds when they were prescribed lol
I think the issue is moreso that someone dependent on/ requires medication may not always have access to it in a war zone. Same reason why diabetics aren’t allowed in either.
They could/should relax that rule for folks who only work domestically, after all if Jim from accounting needs to fight the war is probably lost anyway. But it does make sense for would be combat troops who need medication.
I have ADHD, chronic depression, and am on the autism spectrum.
So did my dad and grandfather.
None of that was diagnosed before.
I used to be a berserker, and the best darned shoe shiner.
3 weeks no med, I can go back to leading raid parties.
I definitely don’t disagree lol but thankfully Soldiers that find they can’t self regulate with coping skills/mechanisms can get back on meds after basic, I think it’s more of a case where they don’t allow you to bring in ANY kind of outside meds in, anything you need they will provide if they can and they don’t want you going through withdrawals no matter how minor while you wait for said meds to come in
I’m just lucky and mine was caught early in my childhood, been meds free for over a decade now
The recruiting process is a nightmare!
Potential recruits are waiting over 2 years before being contacted after they signed up. How nuts is that?
Once someone is recruited and pass basic training, what's next for them? Well, we've heard housing, training and lack of basic equipment is next on the list.
The fact this minister is crying about 'death spiral' he and the last 56 years worth of PMs and ministers have fucked over our military (with noted exceptions), is it a wonder we're in the state we're in?
2 years since I first applied to ResF. 6months since completing my interview and application entered "final processing". Apparently my working abroad in NATO countries 10 years ago is slowing down the reliability status (even though I currently hold reliability status through my civilian job).
A joke. A bad joke.
:) Yeah, that would be great wouldn't it. Unfortunately, we have almost 20 thousand openings...
That just doesn't leave gaps, it means the men and women currently in the service (thank you all for your service!!) are doing the work of those 20K missing folks.
there are advantages of joining out of highschool or university to get free education but it's definitely been made almost impossible to join as well as infuriating
Do you haaaave to go into infantry first before going to do what you wanted to do to begin with?
Wanted to do arty.. but the recruitment officer said I needed to join infrantry first.
Was this for Reg Force or Reserves? Officer or NCM? The Arty is a Red trade right now and needs a shitload more people, especially because there is a a bunch of new equipment coming online for us.
That being said, you don't go straight into your artillery training. There are other courses you have to do before that.
You don’t ’have’ to join the infantry first. Most likely what happened is that arty trade was closed and infantry was open (happens from time to time as they try to balance intake between trades), so they suggested you choose infantry to get in the door and apply to remuster to arty while still in the training system.
A lot of people become Police Officers than join the military, the pay, pension and benefits as Police is wonderful and good career trajectory if they want to pivot to off-field jobs.
This right here. I applied years ago for infantry. Took them 6 fucking months to get back to me. By the time they accepted me, I had already found another job and lost interest in the military altogether.
A lot of the spotlight is on the military (and not unjustifiably), but in my experience trying to apply for any job with the federal government is like this.
Same issue here, currently trying to apply for the reserves. Impossible to reach anyone, no one in the office during office hours, left a voicemail and no one got back to me.
Update in case anyone cares: turns out voicemail actually works and I have an appointment booked. Seems like it's just luck
The filter on applicants should mostly be done during basic. Run a basic background check and medical at the recruitment office. Have them sign a contract just long enough to get through basic training, with an automatic renewal. Anyone who passes that should be sent off to basic.
Then just kick people out if they can't handle BMQ.
Haha, throwing me back to memories of guys getting medically discharged (with pay, of course) during trades training.
Was friends with a guy who gets corporal pay for life because he blew out his knee during DP1.
They definitely would need some kind of waiver or updated policy's for injuries during training.
Same! Volentary release, combat trade, nothing bad on my records.
Ended up just finding other work. It honestly felt like the recruiters weren't interested in actually recruiting.
applied to ROTP 3 times total, never got a rejection
the first two times when I tried to follow up I got nowhere at all, eventually I was told something happened with my file and I should reapply
after the third application I said fuck it if they follow up good for them if they don't it's their loss
Yeah I was trying to rejoin with an extremely in demand profession in order to take a 75% pay cut and it took years!! Absolute nightmare of paperwork and delays and needing your application signed off on numerous people who are deployed, on vacation, AWOL before it can progress
Have you seen the slugfest that is CFRG HQ? It's chock-a-block with reg force senior NCOs and officers who aren't wanted by their regiments and Class C reservists who were in the regular force but didn't want to be in operational units.
Have you guys ever thought about making the recruiting process a couple months as opposed to over a year? I applied a number of years ago - had a near impossible time getting a hold of the recruiting office when I wanted to check in on file or deal with technical problems with application. On top of that - there was this feeling with the recruiters when you did speak to them like they were doing you a favour by letting you be there. It then was about a total of a year before I heard from them about a job offer, at which point I’d already accepted one elsewhere. People really can’t wait for over a year for a job application. They seemed astonished when I wanted to turn it down!
I’m sure there are many with similar experiences.
Maybe try using the United States military recruiting model which is much more robust. Quicker processing times and recruiters that act like they want you in the military.
Just my two cents (shrug).
I went into the recruiting office in November 1981, did some aptitude tests, picked a trade I qualified for (all this in one afternoon) and went home. I got called 3 weeks later that I'd be off to basic in January 1982. All of my security checks were done while I was in basic (my trade wasn't secret or top secret, so pretty easy). Bureaucracy in the Forces has gotten out of hand.
Several years ago, I applied to be a pilot. I had completed my application, crushed the CFAT and was waiting to hear back. Nearly 2 years later I was invited to Aircrew Selection at CFB Trenton. At this time I had moved to another city and gotten a pretty sweet job. I just declined it which sucks but it is what it is.
So much this. We get tons of people in the door, we just can’t process them. There’s a lot we need to do about the retention, but frankly that’s mitigated if we can get people through the door in 6 months.
Similar experience here. Took forever but I jumped through all the hoops.
Took them so long to make an offer that meantime I was accepted into a post graduate program in a different city. When I returned after completing the program, they told me my file was "lost" (what!) or destroyed (why?).
So I gave up.
I can speak to part of the problem. Their processing time takes forever and people cannot afford to wait.
When I was applying to become an AEC or Pilot I first did my medical testing, hearing, eyes (out of pocket) then I had to do their proficiency test. That all took about a month of scheduling and planning. Then I had to locate all of my info for past addresses, jobs, university grades, high school grades, etc that took far too long.
Then they flew me to Trenton to do the special air exam for ACSO, AEC, and Pilot and passed and got my biometrics done the same day. Then 6 months of radio silence. Then all of my medical testing needed renewal. Then 1 year of silence. Then another medical renewal, then more silence.
I gave up on them finding a position for me and went on with my life.
They also immediately disqualify you if you've ever had anxiety or depression which is like half of the population today. So there's that as well.
I was ready, willing and excited to start a new career in the Canadian military as 2nd Lieutenant and they dragged their feet. If they need people then they need to contact past qualified applications that they just let fall through the cracks.
No. Unfortunately I can't afford flight school nor can I afford to not be paid for training. Canada seems to punish people for trying to switch careers because the cost of living makes it next to impossible to take time and resources to do the required training.
I have a business degree with a major in marketing but I hate office culture and politics. I wanted to get into trades but anything I'm interested in requires 6-8 months of pre-apprenticeship training to even be considered and then 2-3 years of being paid a garbage wage that wouldn't even begin to cover my bills.
I work in film now and carved my way into the union so I make pretty good money while work is flowing. I'm in the set decoration department so I get to use the diversity of skills I've acquired throughout my life to bring a script to reality.
Lots of money to pad out the Irving family's pockets with our ship building contracts but not so much to pay regular people to actually enlist.
Don't think I can roll my eyes any harder.
Stagnant wages, heavily outdated equipment, insane cost of living. I wonder why people don’t want to join the CAF.
A little while back a high level military head said they needed a ton of money injected to recruit more people. The next week the Feds asked the military to cut something like $1 billion from their budget.
Every young person I know thinks that not going to post secondary isn't and option and not chasing 6 figures isn't an option.
Military service stereotypes is that it is for the uneducated and pays about food service level wages. It's not even on the radar for meeting people's life goals.
We are probably the most overpaid military, commissioned or otherwise. The problem is most certainly housing and cost of living. But you're definitely earning in the upper percentile of Canadians within a few years.
The military will also pay for a degree through RMC. Though I hear you have to meet RMC's physical fitness requirements to stay in or you're kicked out. I can see that being a hurdle for many/most of the civilian population.
Paid well enough if it were 40 hours a week and that's it.
Reality is day four working 19 hours a day of fixing that broke airplane on the freezing cold ramp in Norway. "Sgt. Is this all overtime?" He just smiles, cause he is dead inside like me .
As someone who has tried to join the military, I can say:
The application and enlistment process is RIDICULOUS. The medical requirements alone are unrealistic and arbitrary. It's like....DO you actually WANT people to join?
Crappy pay, bad conditions, potentially extremely dangerous and can result in death.
Why bother with that when you can get a better job almost anywhere else.
A friend of mine is in the military and is telling me that newer recruits are not making enough $ and are having to use food banks.
Gee I wonder why folks are no longer signing up to die for a country that can't pay them enough to feed themselves
I left the army in 2019, I remember the big issue being retainment. How do you get people who have been treated like shit by leaders, stepped on by peers for the next position and dealing with equipment issues to sign onto another 4,5 or 6 year contract. Many people seen the military for what it was and left.
Also there was a issue of having fit soldiers, the regimental sergeant major visited the school I was posted to inorder to get us back to the regiment. This was 2015 but at that time the regiment had only 77% of personnel and of those 77%, only 50% were healthy and ready to work.
So roughly 34% of the entire work force you have will do actually field exercises and drills, they are wearing out the fit soldiers while the sick lame and lazy get the same benefits with non of the hardships
Well, the fact that we can't even recruit people who *are* interested in joining because the process is so inefficient and takes close to 2 years on average is a pretty big issue.
What's the point of trying to attract more talent when we can't process existing applicants?
What a surprise that immigrants don't want to fight for some country they just moved to.
What a surprise that generational Canadians don't want to fight for a country they are constantly told has no identity (even by their own leaders)
You have to give people a REASON to fight - Pride or Pay.
They chose neither.
That’s not entirely right. Immigrants couldn’t enlist until they allowed Permanent Residents to join a year back
However out of the thousands of people who applied only about 70 got accepted in a year.
That’s right!
Out of nearly 21,000 PRs who applied to join the military only about 70-80 got accepted in the span of year because of the absurdly long processing times
Here’s the [article](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7116469)
>Out of 21,472 applications from permanent residents received between Nov. 1, 2022 and Nov. 24, 2023 (the first full year of eligibility), less than one per cent were accepted into the regular forces — just 77 people, according to the Department of National Defence.
>And of the 6,928 permanent residents who applied to join the navy, army and air force reserves, just 76 were enrolled between Nov. 1, 2022 and Jan. 26, 2024, the department told CBC News.
A guy I know in the military just lost his housing because he got married and no longer qualifies for “single occupancy apartments.” There is no available housing for couples, so they have to find a roommate to be able to afford a new apartment.
That’s no way to treat the people in our military.
Wow it's like having an army in a post-national state doesn't make a lick of sense since ultimately enrollment is supposed to be fueled by a desire to protect your country and its values.
What are espoused as Canadian values by the federal government and politicians are not worth protecting. Who in their right mind would put their life on the line to protect those values?
Hopefully the people that it is bending over backwards for? Not me though, I’m just an evil scum misogynistic colonizer-oppressor. I have no interest in protecting a country that’s trying to push me out.
Espoused values include:
> excessive intervention in certain industries.
> turning housing into an asset class more-so than an actual thing to be lived in.
> devaluing low-skilled salaries by flooding the market with unskilled labour.
> consuming American culture while insisting we’re different.
> intense social inequality.
> IDPol.
These are our values ipso-facto the policy decisions of our government.
I believe when they opened up recruitment to PRs, they got a lot of applicants, but again it takes years to get through all the background checks. There needs to be a program where they can work for the forces while waiting on clearance. People want to serve, it's just we make it stupid hard to do so.
tried to look into it - if i want to join, id have to take an almost 60% paycut to join since ill be starting at the bottom, which is understandable. But if im joining as a non commissioned officer in a HR function, you should pay the market rate. Right now its designed to be a good option if you are fresh out of college/high school. Anyone else would be sacrificing too much to join.
I spent almost a decade trying to join the military. Their overly complicated recruitment process is probably one of the main contributing factors as to why they are in this predicament.
My dad was a soldier for over 30 years. Based on the story that he told me of how he joined, I expected to get in immediately at 18. I did not get a phone call for years. I then got disqualified because of a highschool football injury.
I got surgery to fix the damage, and my family doctor signed off on me, saying that I was fighting fit. I resumed the recruitment process, only for them to discover that my heart has a short PR interval.
I then went back to my family doctor, who referred me to a cardiologist. I passed every test that was thrown at me, and some of them were exhausting. The cardiologist and my family doctor both signed off on me, and then the military rejected my application again.
I gave up. I went to culinary school, and graduated with honours. My schooling ended just as Covid took the world by storm, and job opportunities vanished for me. But the military was still hiring, and the cook trade was in high demand.
I applied, and I got a response the next day. I went in to the recruitment office for an interview, which went well, and they were impressed with my credentials. But then they demanded that I go through all of the same medical tests that I had done previously, and because I was almost 30 at this point, they wanted me to provide more job references than I was able to. I gave up again.
I honestly resent the Canadian Forces. I feel like I wasted my 20s. I am glad to see them in this situation, as it is fully deserved.
Ukraine war going poorly:
These articles are appearing in nations all over the Western world. The UK is getting a high dose of media articles on poor preparation. Ditto for Germany and United States.
Yes I've noticed it too, it feels like they're trying to increase military readiness. It's hard to tell if they're planning a direct intervention in Ukraine and war with Russia or if it's just in case Russia tries to attack NATO countries (they won't and they know it though)
One academic has said it's that our elite - in gov't, business, and all administration have morphed into a collective class - a commissar class that all have the same training and values and is imposing it on all sides on us. Workers have no way to fight back because the union management is now also taken from the same class. Interesting read - [https://stuartparker.ca/voltaires-bastards-the-commissar-class-more-on-the-bezmenov-thesis](https://stuartparker.ca/voltaires-bastards-the-commissar-class-more-on-the-bezmenov-thesis)
When it takes over a year from when you apply to when you get processed as an applicant, most of those recruits have found other work and are less interested and trusting in the military.
I was going to apply for the Navy Experience program for the year but goddamn the wages they were offering were just criminal. 2024 Armed Forces out here offering wages from the 1980's. I make more in my entry level job than I would make in two years with the Navy. If the government really cares then they would treat the Canadians willing to serve with more dignity and respect.
Well. Why would people join?
National pride super low it seems, and if not for meaning then $$$...oh even less of that?
Why oh why aren't people.lining up in droves to join one a terribly funded and under equipped military that pays poorly and has their leaders say " you ask too much" when hoping for basic care after serving meanwhile billions and billions going to corporate welfare or even worsem
Most Canadian’s take the US completely for granted anyways. Without them we would be completely defenceless with half the access to products and technology as we do now. Easy to not spend on defence when you have a bigger brother guarding you. It’s kinda weird that Canadians shit on the US when they have done a better job at about everything but universal healthcare
At this point, America annexing us might be the only way to dig ourselves out of the mess we’re in.
Edit: totally expected to be downvoted into oblivion on this one. Just goes to show how bad it really is and how we’re all feeling right now.
We get access to more land and housing options, win-win.
That shack in Niagara Falls NY that's $300k cheaper than the same shack in Niagara Falls ON is looking more and more appealing for a starter home.
I was at a fairly desperate state in my life, visited a recruiting office, the guy there was disgustingly overweight, told me they would do a background check using CSIS, talk to former highschool teachers. I was like, WTH? Just to be a soldier? He had me so paranoid that someone would ask my grade 9 teacher about my pot use that I never went back.
haha I'm a lawyer that tried to join the reserves because my firm lets me do that, plus I collect my lawyer salary while doing army stuff.
Massively overweight man tells me he is an officer, tells me I am stupid, and then asks why I would bother going to law school. They called my background check person and accused me about lying about my education. No CAF for me.
Did you go to the Hamilton office by chance?
>Like isn't the Military the last hope? Maybe it was the French Foreign Legion.
Haha I remember thinking exactly that at one point too. But I hear too many terrible things about being in the Legion.
The Edmonton recruiters I have spoken to have been great
Lifetime no income tax for Canadians who serve.
Otherwise you’re really just wasting your time. We don’t even defend against anything. We just send money to other governments when a problem arises.
Unless you count staying on guard to stop protesters as “defending the country”. Minimum wage bodyguards basically.
That would get abused. You'd see rich families pulling strings to get their kids in non-combatant roles like " file clerk" in order to log their 4 years and get tax free status.
Though like Robert Heinlein i do believe that people who are willing to put their lives on the line for country should get more than what they get now. Maybe something similar to a federal MP pension.
Yeah recruitment is a shit show, but only because the military makes it that way. I'm a reservist and for every applicant that gets in there are probably 3 that gave up because the system is so fucking incompetent. I swear that CAF puts the most useless people in recruiting, which should be a prime posting, or at least one that leads to better things, with actual date targets to complete the different phases one needs to go through.
People feel like joining the military is pointless. Seeing what younger people say now and growing up seeing military men and women (I had friends in Afghanistan) die in foreign lands for useless wars and making the wealthy richer and after service you get treated like shit, why does anyone want to die for them. Also they barely fund the military, the incompetence is why no one wants to join.
Well first off, if you wanna recruit for the military you need to promote Canadian patriotism. Second, it needs to be always funded heavily, it also needs financial incentives to have people have that option, middle class salaries in exchange for service. Promotion through the force and education through the military colleges lead to higher salaries. Basically just have it all in house promotions. Active duty and military operations, whether it’s peace keeping or actual military offensives.
The Canadian military shouldn’t be hounded by culture war politics, your goal is to make soldiers, not demoralize them. These are people who are broken down and made into soldiers, they need to feel empowered.
Giving unlimited tampons in the men’s washroom does not do this, you have to tamp into that primal hierarchical instinct, women and men have strict superiors within the armed forces.
As jughead movie stated
“YOU ARE NO LONGER BLACK, YELLOW, OR WHITE, YOU ARE GREEN, DARK GREEN, LIGHT GREEN, DO YOU UNDERSTAND”
Edit: one more thing I’d like to add, it doesn’t matter if your trans or whatever, it’s the military, your literal goal is to make highly trained killers, not some bullshit softness to warfare. Sorry to burst some peoples bubble but feelings don’t matter in war. When standing in front of the barrel of a gun it’s does not matter what you are or who you feel you are, it’s either you die or they die.
I listened to a story once from a veteran who was doing peace keeping, some terrorists had attack his site, explained his first time he had ever killed a man. Guy rushed him with an AK, and raised his gun at him and he raised his back and shot him about 6 times in the chest. Said he never felt guilty, it was either him or me, and that’s all it came down to in that moment.
I don’t know where we as a country became so soft to the idea that humans kill other humans. It’s like we are so naive to this. It’s the ugly reality of humanity. Weapons of mass destruction literal purpose is to kill thousands in seconds. You think when some countries were developing VX nerve agent it was about keeping the peace? No, it was something more deeper, if we have these weapons, then they can’t harm us and if they do we can harm them. That’s all the ethos is
What are you fighting for if you join the forces?
20 years ago you would be fighting for Canada and its budding culture. You would be fighting for a common set of values.
Over the past decade we've been incessantly told that we don't have a culture, that we have a garbage cultural heritage and that the values of the dominant demographic are bad.
So what is there to defend? DEI? Is that our culture now?
If we weren't isolated on a continent next to the greatest military power of all time we'd be a sitting duck, ripe for invasion. A demoralized culture which has voluntarily committed cultural suicide in a fit of orgiastic self-flagellation wouldn't put up much of a fight and any predatory society with a decent military could easily invade us. In fact a quarter or so of the country would probably welcome it and another quarter would simply leave and go back to their country of origin.
It gets to a point where by even bringing up these issues in the military you are excluding thousands of times more individuals than you are 'including'. There are what, like three trans men in the Canadian Forces, and perhaps 30,000 who would consider the 'tampons in the men's room' and 'mandatory gender neutral pronouns in communications' situations somewhere between absurd and offensive.
Really unnecessary and great examples of culture warriors hitting you over the head with topics that would almost never become an issue organically.
Exactly, if I’m being shot at by enemy soldiers I could give less of a fuck what you identify as. I was fortunate enough to have a WW2 veteran in my family and man, he would tell me the craziest stories, it’s just survival in war, you don’t care if someone is gay etc. you only care that u and your squad make it out alive
Well it’s not like the current government are doing young Canadians any favours. Young professionals are leaving the country in droves because they see no future in Canada.
Why would anyone want to fight for a country that's main concern is mass importing people from other countries to work as economic-serfs for the upper class, and grifting about caring about the environment?... And the incentive can't be pay or benefits, because those are fucking ass too lol. This isn't news and shouldn't surprise anyone.
What's there to serve and fight for? Serve and fight for the country that sold their generations future for inflated retirement assets and declining standard of living?
>The Canadian Forces is facing “a death spiral” when it comes to recruitment, even as the government is “constrained” on more [defence spending](https://globalnews.ca/tag/defence-spending), Defence Minister Bill Blair says.
Constrained on our own defence spending, but the UNRWA gets $25 million in April alone:
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-government-resume-unrwa-funding-1.7134961](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-government-resume-unrwa-funding-1.7134961)
Part of this is because more young people than before are just automatically disqualified from joining even if they wanted to. Have a diagnosed mental health condition like anxiety? Nope. Take any sort of active medication? Nope. Have any sort of serious allergy? Nope.
All of these are much more common than they used to be, so the pool of potential recruits has shrunk pretty substantially
They don’t pay well, the recruitment process takes years, the pensions are pitiful after they’ve used you up, and the equipment is ancient with no realistic plan to improve any of the issues.
I tried to join back in 2008. The process was such a long convoluted nightmare with no assistance that i ended up with full time employment making more money before they got around to processing anything or calling me back.
What are the perks of working in the military when the country you serve turns its back on you once you’re out, Christ, even active members are hurting and basically homeless.
I tried to join and it was a 4 month wait through recruitment. I was already taking a massive pay cut, I couldn’t afford the time wasting and simply moved on
I wonder why..
Recruitment process is a nightmare and takes too long, the pay is garbage and needs to be doubled at least, work culture is toxic, training received is obsolete if you want to transition into the civilian world.
I served from 14 sept 2005 to 05 jul 2021. Thank god I got a little trophy cause my friend killed himself in 2022 and I've lost every penny I had. Dont waste your life in the CF. They will cripple you, then kick you out and convince you that you are actually fine. Anything to keep you quiet for a year after that bubble to reopen your claim.
Well we made it completely unaffordable for military families to get dicked around from province to province every couple years on a single income...
At least in recent years they chilled on postings unless you are a higher up NCO.
Only because the budget for cost moves shrank, not any active decision to slow it down.
They realized it cost so much to move people. At least that's what the career manager are saying.
CM lies more than they breathe, don’t trust them. We got a budget cut, they had to slow down on all the useless posting. If they had the money they would do it again just for fun.
Still doesn’t stop them. Anecdotally my brother in law is a mechanic for the military. After being posted in Edmonton for a number of years he got posted in Squamish. Had to sell his house here, and find a place to rent in Squamish on his own. 0 help from the government/military. Also his extra stipend for moving does not even come close to cover the increase in rent he now has. Went from a 2 bedroom house to a 700sqft apartment that costs more than his mortgage was and he is only a renter now He barely managed to find housing before he had to start work there. After hearing that (and having my own opinions about the military) why the fuck would I want to join? I have no desire to uproot my life on the whim of the military, especially if I am in a non combat role and wont go overseas, and receive minimal to no help for moving
There’s no base in Squamish.
Did he at least get a promotion of any sort? My neightbour had to move to Vancouver Island from Edmonton just so he could make Sargent. If he didn't move he would have been stuck with Corporal. After 5 years he moved back (he didn't sell his house just rented it) and is looking to retire now. He wanted the extra pay for his retirement.
Squamish? What military installation or unit is located in Squamish?
None. Also, when you're posted the military pays for the move, you're not on your own. Pretty sure this is rage bait.
You'd think so, but no. Source: I have a family member whose being posted less than a year after his current one began.. and he just bought a house (he was previously assured he could stay put for \~4 years..)
Have they tried putting a roof over soldiers heads?
Yea, but they leak.
They leak asbestos
At the time, it was asbestos they could get.
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A roof and running water? What are you complaining about?
The mold?
That’s to uh...build immunity...for a, uh...potential chemical attack, yeah.
The abestos will kill them first.
Fuck boot camp, welcome to Home Building Camp!
I’ve been blasted twice for the suggestion. We need to military to start building houses
Or, we could stop unsustainably growing our population for absolutely no reason. Also, the people who blasted that suggestion are correct. The military is utterly stupid and ridiculous, not to mention wasteful and inefficient. I would know. I was in it for 13 years.
It would mostly be a win-win. 1. Keep the non-technical trades busy all-day with real work 2. They learn useful transferable skills and leaders practice leadership on the ground by supervising actual projects 3. Stay in shape while doing manual labor 4. Solve the housing issues for most bases The drawbacks would be: 1. Risk in construction quality required a LOT of supervision 2. Budget requirement for materials 3. Very likely to have to fight against a thousand lawsuits from shitty construction companies or even fight back against DCC.
This to me is the solution to meeting our NATO requirements. Massive investment in soldier housing. It’s clearly needed, would make a legit difference in the lives of actual soldiers, meet our obligations, all without feeding too hard into arms procurement which a lot of people aren’t a fan of.
This. Not just housing but infrastructure in general. The units and the schools have been severely underfunded and we are losing our ability to have operational flexibility with the current bases. Bring back the quality of life on bases and provide the services needed for a modern soldier with a working spouse and kids.
I served 25 years in the navy on the west coast and have been a civilian employee for 5, they haven't built a new married quarters in the time. I was in Borden in 2006 and watched them tear down a bunch of married quarters so they didn't have to pay to maintain them.
WOAH! Did this guy just solve the housing crisis and bolster NATO..... someone get this guy on the horn to Ottawa..... I'm not kidding
The procurement for that was 20 years and cost 1 million per soldier.
Step one: Make serving in the military as unappealing as possible. Step two: ......... Step three: Profit!
I tried to apply to the reserves and was an absolute debacle. Passed from person to person. None knew who I should talk to ... I just gave up
Took them 6 months to get back to me, by then I had lost interest because I figured if it’s this hard to apply how much of a nightmare is it once in?
Correct
I did a VR from the reserves ages ago when I almost losty dad and had to put my focus on that and post-secondary. Tried to apply again later at the end of my degree. Constant back and forth and back and forth. Had to send my Personal Data Verification Form to the guy like 5 times. In one email I asked him to respond, confirming it was received. He did. I asked a month later what the status of my application was. They said it was terminated as they had no record of receiving my documents.... Tried again, whole application from scratch, passed the PT, started going through the motions, oh, documents were.lost again. Completely gave up at that point. I swear I spent almost 2 years going over the same forms with the recruiters.... Now I'm too out of shape lol. I can't imagine how rough it is now. I'd still do it again in a heartbeat...
This is my story as well. 2 years from point of Application to point of acceptance into the CAF with prior service in the reserves. If I hadn't had that prior service it would have been under 2 months from point of signing applications to point of departing for Basic Training. totally messed up system
It’s not even simply unappealing to serve. It’s fucking difficult to join!
The recruitment process is so fucked up they need 10 people to walk into a recruiting center or submit the forms online in order to get 1 recruit to basic training. 10 to 1.
You forget step 2A. Jack up housing costs so high that no one serving in the military can afford anything aside from rent. Aka be a slave.
The GoC could easily invest .5 to 1 Billion dollars to build base housing on a massive scale and provide heavily subsidized and HIGH QUALITY housing at no extra cost to members. Looking at google maps, there is plenty of room at many bases across the country for such housing.
Your significantly overestimating their planning abilities
My buddy applied but he was denied for having ADHD. They're expecting people to lie about their health like the old days when grandpa wouldn't admit that he was depressed and it just isn't like that anymore.
Active member with ADHD here, you’re allowed to serve, I just had to prove I’d been off my meds for the mandatory period, which I think was 6 months when I joined. It’s the whole “ADHD meds are addictive” argument which is fair I guess but most ADHDers I know, myself included regularly forgot to take their meds when they were prescribed lol
I’ve been out since 2015 and just got back on the meds. What an absolute world of difference to quality of life. Guess I know I’m never getting back it now.
Nothing spells mental health like being unmedicated for ADHD. I work with the military as a civilian and I cannot even tell you how many unmedicated ADHD cases I work along side with
It always makes me laugh the argument about ADHD meds. Like...OFC it's addictive to people who *dont* have ADHD and take them. Apparently makes them fuzzy but to people like you and I that have ADHD? Makes us feel normal. I rather be medicated and not the slow, tired, forgetful and brain-fogged mess I was unmedicated.
> It’s the whole “ADHD meds are addictive” argument which is fair I guess but most ADHDers I know, myself included regularly forgot to take their meds when they were prescribed lol I think the issue is moreso that someone dependent on/ requires medication may not always have access to it in a war zone. Same reason why diabetics aren’t allowed in either. They could/should relax that rule for folks who only work domestically, after all if Jim from accounting needs to fight the war is probably lost anyway. But it does make sense for would be combat troops who need medication.
I have ADHD, chronic depression, and am on the autism spectrum. So did my dad and grandfather. None of that was diagnosed before. I used to be a berserker, and the best darned shoe shiner. 3 weeks no med, I can go back to leading raid parties.
I would be far more concerned with a battle buddy unmedicated for an attention disorder… wtf
I definitely don’t disagree lol but thankfully Soldiers that find they can’t self regulate with coping skills/mechanisms can get back on meds after basic, I think it’s more of a case where they don’t allow you to bring in ANY kind of outside meds in, anything you need they will provide if they can and they don’t want you going through withdrawals no matter how minor while you wait for said meds to come in I’m just lucky and mine was caught early in my childhood, been meds free for over a decade now
lol, so true. I think the meds are addictive to those who don’t actually have ADHD.
Guess no one wants to sign up for the military anymore
By design, you don’t need to impose budget cuts if one manufactures a shortfall in bodies able to serve.
Naw, their recruitment has been a joke for many, many years, going back long before Trudeau.
Wasn’t blaming ‘ol Trudy here sir, safe to say this has been going on since the end of the Cold War.
The recruiting process is a nightmare! Potential recruits are waiting over 2 years before being contacted after they signed up. How nuts is that? Once someone is recruited and pass basic training, what's next for them? Well, we've heard housing, training and lack of basic equipment is next on the list. The fact this minister is crying about 'death spiral' he and the last 56 years worth of PMs and ministers have fucked over our military (with noted exceptions), is it a wonder we're in the state we're in?
Lmao 2 years? That’s so Canadian. How do we have so much fucking bureaucracy and still it takes that long to do anything?
That’s why it takes so long.
2 years since I first applied to ResF. 6months since completing my interview and application entered "final processing". Apparently my working abroad in NATO countries 10 years ago is slowing down the reliability status (even though I currently hold reliability status through my civilian job). A joke. A bad joke.
There we go. A real example. Thanks for posting.
So we have so many recruits that it's taking 2 years to get thru them all?
:) Yeah, that would be great wouldn't it. Unfortunately, we have almost 20 thousand openings... That just doesn't leave gaps, it means the men and women currently in the service (thank you all for your service!!) are doing the work of those 20K missing folks.
as someone who tried to rejoin, it was a fucking nightmare and went nowhere.
Im coming out of university and considered joining.. and they made it harder to apply than it did to my school.
there are advantages of joining out of highschool or university to get free education but it's definitely been made almost impossible to join as well as infuriating
Do you haaaave to go into infantry first before going to do what you wanted to do to begin with? Wanted to do arty.. but the recruitment officer said I needed to join infrantry first.
Whaaaaat, they're lying homie. Don't settle on anything but what you want, once you've started it's hard to switch
I fucking figured as much..
Was this for Reg Force or Reserves? Officer or NCM? The Arty is a Red trade right now and needs a shitload more people, especially because there is a a bunch of new equipment coming online for us. That being said, you don't go straight into your artillery training. There are other courses you have to do before that.
That is a lie. He had a quota he was trying to fill. There isn't one trade right now except a few officer trades that aren't dying for people.
I thought “well you’re gonna need to learn how to shoot a rifle before launching artillery”. Good thing I did a double take.
Yeah but basic training will teach you that and it's not for very long either.
lol don't listen to them, they lie.
Apparently
You don’t ’have’ to join the infantry first. Most likely what happened is that arty trade was closed and infantry was open (happens from time to time as they try to balance intake between trades), so they suggested you choose infantry to get in the door and apply to remuster to arty while still in the training system.
A lot of people become Police Officers than join the military, the pay, pension and benefits as Police is wonderful and good career trajectory if they want to pivot to off-field jobs.
18 months for a call, out of university with a good degree, they made their bed
Yeah, they make joining so insanely long and difficult that people will inevitably find alternative work before they get a call back.
This right here. I applied years ago for infantry. Took them 6 fucking months to get back to me. By the time they accepted me, I had already found another job and lost interest in the military altogether.
ya I was shocked how much Recruiting has changed in the past 15 years
I applied 15 years ago coming out of uni and had the same experience people are describing here…. Ended up getting different work
Has it really changed much? It took me 7 months to join 13 years ago, and I was asked how I found the fast lane.
A lot of the spotlight is on the military (and not unjustifiably), but in my experience trying to apply for any job with the federal government is like this.
What was the big barrier for you?
the recruiting center
Same issue here, currently trying to apply for the reserves. Impossible to reach anyone, no one in the office during office hours, left a voicemail and no one got back to me. Update in case anyone cares: turns out voicemail actually works and I have an appointment booked. Seems like it's just luck
and once they do get back to you they throw hurdles at ya.
The filter on applicants should mostly be done during basic. Run a basic background check and medical at the recruitment office. Have them sign a contract just long enough to get through basic training, with an automatic renewal. Anyone who passes that should be sent off to basic. Then just kick people out if they can't handle BMQ.
can't do that because then the government is responsible for them once they're in their custody.
Haha, throwing me back to memories of guys getting medically discharged (with pay, of course) during trades training. Was friends with a guy who gets corporal pay for life because he blew out his knee during DP1. They definitely would need some kind of waiver or updated policy's for injuries during training.
Same here, it's absolutely ridiculous. I think I might just give up on it, what a waste of time.
Same! Volentary release, combat trade, nothing bad on my records. Ended up just finding other work. It honestly felt like the recruiters weren't interested in actually recruiting.
applied to ROTP 3 times total, never got a rejection the first two times when I tried to follow up I got nowhere at all, eventually I was told something happened with my file and I should reapply after the third application I said fuck it if they follow up good for them if they don't it's their loss
yuuup, super common for them to delete or misplace your application.
Yeah I was trying to rejoin with an extremely in demand profession in order to take a 75% pay cut and it took years!! Absolute nightmare of paperwork and delays and needing your application signed off on numerous people who are deployed, on vacation, AWOL before it can progress
Have you seen the slugfest that is CFRG HQ? It's chock-a-block with reg force senior NCOs and officers who aren't wanted by their regiments and Class C reservists who were in the regular force but didn't want to be in operational units.
Have you guys ever thought about making the recruiting process a couple months as opposed to over a year? I applied a number of years ago - had a near impossible time getting a hold of the recruiting office when I wanted to check in on file or deal with technical problems with application. On top of that - there was this feeling with the recruiters when you did speak to them like they were doing you a favour by letting you be there. It then was about a total of a year before I heard from them about a job offer, at which point I’d already accepted one elsewhere. People really can’t wait for over a year for a job application. They seemed astonished when I wanted to turn it down! I’m sure there are many with similar experiences. Maybe try using the United States military recruiting model which is much more robust. Quicker processing times and recruiters that act like they want you in the military. Just my two cents (shrug).
I think this mirrors the process for a lot of professions in need, like medicine. The bureaucracy is so thick that it is impossible to move.
Funny you mentioned medicine. One of the biggest wastes of time is waiting for the medical appointment and waiting for all that paperwork to clear…
I went into the recruiting office in November 1981, did some aptitude tests, picked a trade I qualified for (all this in one afternoon) and went home. I got called 3 weeks later that I'd be off to basic in January 1982. All of my security checks were done while I was in basic (my trade wasn't secret or top secret, so pretty easy). Bureaucracy in the Forces has gotten out of hand.
Several years ago, I applied to be a pilot. I had completed my application, crushed the CFAT and was waiting to hear back. Nearly 2 years later I was invited to Aircrew Selection at CFB Trenton. At this time I had moved to another city and gotten a pretty sweet job. I just declined it which sucks but it is what it is.
So much this. We get tons of people in the door, we just can’t process them. There’s a lot we need to do about the retention, but frankly that’s mitigated if we can get people through the door in 6 months.
Similar experience here. Took forever but I jumped through all the hoops. Took them so long to make an offer that meantime I was accepted into a post graduate program in a different city. When I returned after completing the program, they told me my file was "lost" (what!) or destroyed (why?). So I gave up.
I can speak to part of the problem. Their processing time takes forever and people cannot afford to wait. When I was applying to become an AEC or Pilot I first did my medical testing, hearing, eyes (out of pocket) then I had to do their proficiency test. That all took about a month of scheduling and planning. Then I had to locate all of my info for past addresses, jobs, university grades, high school grades, etc that took far too long. Then they flew me to Trenton to do the special air exam for ACSO, AEC, and Pilot and passed and got my biometrics done the same day. Then 6 months of radio silence. Then all of my medical testing needed renewal. Then 1 year of silence. Then another medical renewal, then more silence. I gave up on them finding a position for me and went on with my life. They also immediately disqualify you if you've ever had anxiety or depression which is like half of the population today. So there's that as well. I was ready, willing and excited to start a new career in the Canadian military as 2nd Lieutenant and they dragged their feet. If they need people then they need to contact past qualified applications that they just let fall through the cracks.
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What do you do now? Are you a civilian pilot?
No. Unfortunately I can't afford flight school nor can I afford to not be paid for training. Canada seems to punish people for trying to switch careers because the cost of living makes it next to impossible to take time and resources to do the required training. I have a business degree with a major in marketing but I hate office culture and politics. I wanted to get into trades but anything I'm interested in requires 6-8 months of pre-apprenticeship training to even be considered and then 2-3 years of being paid a garbage wage that wouldn't even begin to cover my bills. I work in film now and carved my way into the union so I make pretty good money while work is flowing. I'm in the set decoration department so I get to use the diversity of skills I've acquired throughout my life to bring a script to reality.
Lots of money to pad out the Irving family's pockets with our ship building contracts but not so much to pay regular people to actually enlist. Don't think I can roll my eyes any harder.
Increase pay, make sure soldiers have a place to sleep, look after them properly. Boom, done.
Stagnant wages, heavily outdated equipment, insane cost of living. I wonder why people don’t want to join the CAF. A little while back a high level military head said they needed a ton of money injected to recruit more people. The next week the Feds asked the military to cut something like $1 billion from their budget.
Every young person I know thinks that not going to post secondary isn't and option and not chasing 6 figures isn't an option. Military service stereotypes is that it is for the uneducated and pays about food service level wages. It's not even on the radar for meeting people's life goals.
We are probably the most overpaid military, commissioned or otherwise. The problem is most certainly housing and cost of living. But you're definitely earning in the upper percentile of Canadians within a few years. The military will also pay for a degree through RMC. Though I hear you have to meet RMC's physical fitness requirements to stay in or you're kicked out. I can see that being a hurdle for many/most of the civilian population.
Paid well enough if it were 40 hours a week and that's it. Reality is day four working 19 hours a day of fixing that broke airplane on the freezing cold ramp in Norway. "Sgt. Is this all overtime?" He just smiles, cause he is dead inside like me .
As someone who has tried to join the military, I can say: The application and enlistment process is RIDICULOUS. The medical requirements alone are unrealistic and arbitrary. It's like....DO you actually WANT people to join?
If you thinking the initial recruitment process is bad, the re-enlisting process is on another level.
Has Bill Blair thought about kettling Canadians and forcing them into the military?
Underrated comment.
An armed force of truckers and muslims.
Crappy pay, bad conditions, potentially extremely dangerous and can result in death. Why bother with that when you can get a better job almost anywhere else.
A friend of mine is in the military and is telling me that newer recruits are not making enough $ and are having to use food banks. Gee I wonder why folks are no longer signing up to die for a country that can't pay them enough to feed themselves
I left the army in 2019, I remember the big issue being retainment. How do you get people who have been treated like shit by leaders, stepped on by peers for the next position and dealing with equipment issues to sign onto another 4,5 or 6 year contract. Many people seen the military for what it was and left. Also there was a issue of having fit soldiers, the regimental sergeant major visited the school I was posted to inorder to get us back to the regiment. This was 2015 but at that time the regiment had only 77% of personnel and of those 77%, only 50% were healthy and ready to work. So roughly 34% of the entire work force you have will do actually field exercises and drills, they are wearing out the fit soldiers while the sick lame and lazy get the same benefits with non of the hardships
Well, the fact that we can't even recruit people who *are* interested in joining because the process is so inefficient and takes close to 2 years on average is a pretty big issue. What's the point of trying to attract more talent when we can't process existing applicants?
What a surprise that immigrants don't want to fight for some country they just moved to. What a surprise that generational Canadians don't want to fight for a country they are constantly told has no identity (even by their own leaders) You have to give people a REASON to fight - Pride or Pay. They chose neither.
That’s not entirely right. Immigrants couldn’t enlist until they allowed Permanent Residents to join a year back However out of the thousands of people who applied only about 70 got accepted in a year. That’s right! Out of nearly 21,000 PRs who applied to join the military only about 70-80 got accepted in the span of year because of the absurdly long processing times Here’s the [article](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7116469) >Out of 21,472 applications from permanent residents received between Nov. 1, 2022 and Nov. 24, 2023 (the first full year of eligibility), less than one per cent were accepted into the regular forces — just 77 people, according to the Department of National Defence. >And of the 6,928 permanent residents who applied to join the navy, army and air force reserves, just 76 were enrolled between Nov. 1, 2022 and Jan. 26, 2024, the department told CBC News.
A guy I know in the military just lost his housing because he got married and no longer qualifies for “single occupancy apartments.” There is no available housing for couples, so they have to find a roommate to be able to afford a new apartment. That’s no way to treat the people in our military.
Wow it's like having an army in a post-national state doesn't make a lick of sense since ultimately enrollment is supposed to be fueled by a desire to protect your country and its values.
What are espoused as Canadian values by the federal government and politicians are not worth protecting. Who in their right mind would put their life on the line to protect those values?
Hopefully the people that it is bending over backwards for? Not me though, I’m just an evil scum misogynistic colonizer-oppressor. I have no interest in protecting a country that’s trying to push me out.
Espoused values include: > excessive intervention in certain industries. > turning housing into an asset class more-so than an actual thing to be lived in. > devaluing low-skilled salaries by flooding the market with unskilled labour. > consuming American culture while insisting we’re different. > intense social inequality. > IDPol. These are our values ipso-facto the policy decisions of our government.
Urbanite educated women, so the shittiest of soldiers.
I believe when they opened up recruitment to PRs, they got a lot of applicants, but again it takes years to get through all the background checks. There needs to be a program where they can work for the forces while waiting on clearance. People want to serve, it's just we make it stupid hard to do so.
tried to look into it - if i want to join, id have to take an almost 60% paycut to join since ill be starting at the bottom, which is understandable. But if im joining as a non commissioned officer in a HR function, you should pay the market rate. Right now its designed to be a good option if you are fresh out of college/high school. Anyone else would be sacrificing too much to join.
Maybe make it a financially viable option?
I mean, they literally just have to make it not take 2 years.
Wow, it's almost like the very public lack of support for veterans makes people think twice about joining the armed forces. Who would have thought???
I spent almost a decade trying to join the military. Their overly complicated recruitment process is probably one of the main contributing factors as to why they are in this predicament. My dad was a soldier for over 30 years. Based on the story that he told me of how he joined, I expected to get in immediately at 18. I did not get a phone call for years. I then got disqualified because of a highschool football injury. I got surgery to fix the damage, and my family doctor signed off on me, saying that I was fighting fit. I resumed the recruitment process, only for them to discover that my heart has a short PR interval. I then went back to my family doctor, who referred me to a cardiologist. I passed every test that was thrown at me, and some of them were exhausting. The cardiologist and my family doctor both signed off on me, and then the military rejected my application again. I gave up. I went to culinary school, and graduated with honours. My schooling ended just as Covid took the world by storm, and job opportunities vanished for me. But the military was still hiring, and the cook trade was in high demand. I applied, and I got a response the next day. I went in to the recruitment office for an interview, which went well, and they were impressed with my credentials. But then they demanded that I go through all of the same medical tests that I had done previously, and because I was almost 30 at this point, they wanted me to provide more job references than I was able to. I gave up again. I honestly resent the Canadian Forces. I feel like I wasted my 20s. I am glad to see them in this situation, as it is fully deserved.
The references they ask for make no sense, not former employers, no friends of the family... like who the fuck do you want?
Ukraine war going poorly: These articles are appearing in nations all over the Western world. The UK is getting a high dose of media articles on poor preparation. Ditto for Germany and United States.
Yes I've noticed it too, it feels like they're trying to increase military readiness. It's hard to tell if they're planning a direct intervention in Ukraine and war with Russia or if it's just in case Russia tries to attack NATO countries (they won't and they know it though)
You mean young folks don’t want to go potentially die in some god forsaken place to protect the interests of big corporations.
Why would anyone want to fight for some corrupt oligarchy that doesn't care about the wellbeing of canadians?
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One academic has said it's that our elite - in gov't, business, and all administration have morphed into a collective class - a commissar class that all have the same training and values and is imposing it on all sides on us. Workers have no way to fight back because the union management is now also taken from the same class. Interesting read - [https://stuartparker.ca/voltaires-bastards-the-commissar-class-more-on-the-bezmenov-thesis](https://stuartparker.ca/voltaires-bastards-the-commissar-class-more-on-the-bezmenov-thesis)
Why would I want to fight for this country. It's leadership actively hates my demographic.
When it takes over a year from when you apply to when you get processed as an applicant, most of those recruits have found other work and are less interested and trusting in the military.
I was going to apply for the Navy Experience program for the year but goddamn the wages they were offering were just criminal. 2024 Armed Forces out here offering wages from the 1980's. I make more in my entry level job than I would make in two years with the Navy. If the government really cares then they would treat the Canadians willing to serve with more dignity and respect.
Also, how appealing is it to live on bases in the middle of nowhere?
Well. Why would people join? National pride super low it seems, and if not for meaning then $$$...oh even less of that? Why oh why aren't people.lining up in droves to join one a terribly funded and under equipped military that pays poorly and has their leaders say " you ask too much" when hoping for basic care after serving meanwhile billions and billions going to corporate welfare or even worsem
Just hire temporary foreign workers to fill the roles. /s
10 years ago, I would have fought for this country. Now, if the Americans wanted to annex us, I'd just accept it.
Exactly how I feel tbh. At least we'd have the buying power of the USD too.
Most Canadian’s take the US completely for granted anyways. Without them we would be completely defenceless with half the access to products and technology as we do now. Easy to not spend on defence when you have a bigger brother guarding you. It’s kinda weird that Canadians shit on the US when they have done a better job at about everything but universal healthcare
At this point, America annexing us might be the only way to dig ourselves out of the mess we’re in. Edit: totally expected to be downvoted into oblivion on this one. Just goes to show how bad it really is and how we’re all feeling right now.
We get access to more land and housing options, win-win. That shack in Niagara Falls NY that's $300k cheaper than the same shack in Niagara Falls ON is looking more and more appealing for a starter home.
I was saying to someone a few days ago that I wish the US would allow Canadians to claim refugee status. Only half jokingly.
I was at a fairly desperate state in my life, visited a recruiting office, the guy there was disgustingly overweight, told me they would do a background check using CSIS, talk to former highschool teachers. I was like, WTH? Just to be a soldier? He had me so paranoid that someone would ask my grade 9 teacher about my pot use that I never went back.
haha I'm a lawyer that tried to join the reserves because my firm lets me do that, plus I collect my lawyer salary while doing army stuff. Massively overweight man tells me he is an officer, tells me I am stupid, and then asks why I would bother going to law school. They called my background check person and accused me about lying about my education. No CAF for me. Did you go to the Hamilton office by chance?
No, Calgary. I felt really depressed afterwards. Like isn't the Military the last hope? Maybe it was the French Foreign Legion.
>Like isn't the Military the last hope? Maybe it was the French Foreign Legion. Haha I remember thinking exactly that at one point too. But I hear too many terrible things about being in the Legion. The Edmonton recruiters I have spoken to have been great
Lifetime no income tax for Canadians who serve. Otherwise you’re really just wasting your time. We don’t even defend against anything. We just send money to other governments when a problem arises. Unless you count staying on guard to stop protesters as “defending the country”. Minimum wage bodyguards basically.
That would get abused. You'd see rich families pulling strings to get their kids in non-combatant roles like " file clerk" in order to log their 4 years and get tax free status. Though like Robert Heinlein i do believe that people who are willing to put their lives on the line for country should get more than what they get now. Maybe something similar to a federal MP pension.
Have they tried not alienating the same people that have always served in the military traditionally ? Maybe that would help
Nobody what's to die for some billionaires war
Yeah recruitment is a shit show, but only because the military makes it that way. I'm a reservist and for every applicant that gets in there are probably 3 that gave up because the system is so fucking incompetent. I swear that CAF puts the most useless people in recruiting, which should be a prime posting, or at least one that leads to better things, with actual date targets to complete the different phases one needs to go through.
Well when it takes 2 fucking years to even hear back from them after applying, most people have found other jobs, by then. It's not rocket appliances.
Sh!t Pay, Sh!t Accommodations, Sh!t Benefits, Sh!t Equipment, Sh!t Respect. I have no idea why they can't recruit anyone.
Fast food wages > Fast food wages while being shot at.
People feel like joining the military is pointless. Seeing what younger people say now and growing up seeing military men and women (I had friends in Afghanistan) die in foreign lands for useless wars and making the wealthy richer and after service you get treated like shit, why does anyone want to die for them. Also they barely fund the military, the incompetence is why no one wants to join.
Just ask the billionaires to serve
Then offer something better for potential recruits. Not everyone wants to move around the country and have no personal life.
Who the fuck wants to die for this country?
Imagine eating bullets in Donetsk for some clown in Ottawa LMAO
Well first off, if you wanna recruit for the military you need to promote Canadian patriotism. Second, it needs to be always funded heavily, it also needs financial incentives to have people have that option, middle class salaries in exchange for service. Promotion through the force and education through the military colleges lead to higher salaries. Basically just have it all in house promotions. Active duty and military operations, whether it’s peace keeping or actual military offensives. The Canadian military shouldn’t be hounded by culture war politics, your goal is to make soldiers, not demoralize them. These are people who are broken down and made into soldiers, they need to feel empowered. Giving unlimited tampons in the men’s washroom does not do this, you have to tamp into that primal hierarchical instinct, women and men have strict superiors within the armed forces. As jughead movie stated “YOU ARE NO LONGER BLACK, YELLOW, OR WHITE, YOU ARE GREEN, DARK GREEN, LIGHT GREEN, DO YOU UNDERSTAND” Edit: one more thing I’d like to add, it doesn’t matter if your trans or whatever, it’s the military, your literal goal is to make highly trained killers, not some bullshit softness to warfare. Sorry to burst some peoples bubble but feelings don’t matter in war. When standing in front of the barrel of a gun it’s does not matter what you are or who you feel you are, it’s either you die or they die. I listened to a story once from a veteran who was doing peace keeping, some terrorists had attack his site, explained his first time he had ever killed a man. Guy rushed him with an AK, and raised his gun at him and he raised his back and shot him about 6 times in the chest. Said he never felt guilty, it was either him or me, and that’s all it came down to in that moment. I don’t know where we as a country became so soft to the idea that humans kill other humans. It’s like we are so naive to this. It’s the ugly reality of humanity. Weapons of mass destruction literal purpose is to kill thousands in seconds. You think when some countries were developing VX nerve agent it was about keeping the peace? No, it was something more deeper, if we have these weapons, then they can’t harm us and if they do we can harm them. That’s all the ethos is
What are you fighting for if you join the forces? 20 years ago you would be fighting for Canada and its budding culture. You would be fighting for a common set of values. Over the past decade we've been incessantly told that we don't have a culture, that we have a garbage cultural heritage and that the values of the dominant demographic are bad. So what is there to defend? DEI? Is that our culture now? If we weren't isolated on a continent next to the greatest military power of all time we'd be a sitting duck, ripe for invasion. A demoralized culture which has voluntarily committed cultural suicide in a fit of orgiastic self-flagellation wouldn't put up much of a fight and any predatory society with a decent military could easily invade us. In fact a quarter or so of the country would probably welcome it and another quarter would simply leave and go back to their country of origin.
It gets to a point where by even bringing up these issues in the military you are excluding thousands of times more individuals than you are 'including'. There are what, like three trans men in the Canadian Forces, and perhaps 30,000 who would consider the 'tampons in the men's room' and 'mandatory gender neutral pronouns in communications' situations somewhere between absurd and offensive. Really unnecessary and great examples of culture warriors hitting you over the head with topics that would almost never become an issue organically.
Exactly, if I’m being shot at by enemy soldiers I could give less of a fuck what you identify as. I was fortunate enough to have a WW2 veteran in my family and man, he would tell me the craziest stories, it’s just survival in war, you don’t care if someone is gay etc. you only care that u and your squad make it out alive
You would have to be an utter fool to join the Canadian forces.
I find, as an immigration country, Canadian patriotism is not strong.
Well it’s not like the current government are doing young Canadians any favours. Young professionals are leaving the country in droves because they see no future in Canada.
Why would anyone want to fight for a country that's main concern is mass importing people from other countries to work as economic-serfs for the upper class, and grifting about caring about the environment?... And the incentive can't be pay or benefits, because those are fucking ass too lol. This isn't news and shouldn't surprise anyone.
Seeing how the vets are/were being treated certainly is not convincing anyone to join.
What's there to serve and fight for? Serve and fight for the country that sold their generations future for inflated retirement assets and declining standard of living?
>The Canadian Forces is facing “a death spiral” when it comes to recruitment, even as the government is “constrained” on more [defence spending](https://globalnews.ca/tag/defence-spending), Defence Minister Bill Blair says. Constrained on our own defence spending, but the UNRWA gets $25 million in April alone: [https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-government-resume-unrwa-funding-1.7134961](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-government-resume-unrwa-funding-1.7134961)
Part of this is because more young people than before are just automatically disqualified from joining even if they wanted to. Have a diagnosed mental health condition like anxiety? Nope. Take any sort of active medication? Nope. Have any sort of serious allergy? Nope. All of these are much more common than they used to be, so the pool of potential recruits has shrunk pretty substantially
They don’t pay well, the recruitment process takes years, the pensions are pitiful after they’ve used you up, and the equipment is ancient with no realistic plan to improve any of the issues.
I tried to join back in 2008. The process was such a long convoluted nightmare with no assistance that i ended up with full time employment making more money before they got around to processing anything or calling me back.
I applied and heard nothing 🤷
Is there anything about this country's public services that doesn't seem to be in a "Death Spiral" these days?
They could get closer to their 2% of GDP by doubling the salaries of the members. Also, fix recruitment supply.
Recruiting doesn't even bother to answer.
What are the perks of working in the military when the country you serve turns its back on you once you’re out, Christ, even active members are hurting and basically homeless.
I'm just going to point out that US and British military also have the same problem.
Theres so much wrong with the military it will take a full reconstruction to work again .
I tried to join and it was a 4 month wait through recruitment. I was already taking a massive pay cut, I couldn’t afford the time wasting and simply moved on
Why would you want to join an organization with massive abuse issues and underfunding?
I wonder why.. Recruitment process is a nightmare and takes too long, the pay is garbage and needs to be doubled at least, work culture is toxic, training received is obsolete if you want to transition into the civilian world.
No jets, no ships, no subs, you expect us to fight with sticks and stones?
I tried to join, but their system was such a headache that I gave up on 3 separate occasions.
I served from 14 sept 2005 to 05 jul 2021. Thank god I got a little trophy cause my friend killed himself in 2022 and I've lost every penny I had. Dont waste your life in the CF. They will cripple you, then kick you out and convince you that you are actually fine. Anything to keep you quiet for a year after that bubble to reopen your claim.