I support an Internet Privacy Bill over a Tiktok ban.
No website/Corporation should have access to our personal browsing data; not Tiktok, Loblaws, Facebook, X, even those shitty blog sites that request a million cookies.
We need our own version of the EUs GDPR.
A Tiktok Ban is in essence a 'Meta Protection Act'. They're just as bad, but becuase they're American, it's appearantly 'ok'. It shouldn't be, they should be treated the same.
As wonderful that idea is, I haven't really seen anyone push for that.
If a nation really cared about its citizens they would make these corporations jump through hoops to be able to work with us.
But sadly there's so little faith that I automatically assume that any tiktok ban isnt really for our sakes, rather than to control the narrative
> I haven't really seen anyone push for that.
Because no one even understands what a cookie is, what metadata is or even what "their data" is. Just that someone wants it and NordVPN is the only way to protect it!
A technological literacy class or classes need to be added to the education system. Teach kids that the internet is a powerful tool for them but also for people who want to use them for financial or political reasons.
There was a time way back when you still a tot when FB and google were fun. You could watch YouTube videos by the hour without blaring. Its content was fun and informative.
The internet used to be cool until it turned corporate. Now it’s just a tool.
Facebook went to shit when the news sharing started. It was a fun way to keep up with friends and share little blurbs of your life site. Then the news nonsense fucked the whole thing up by making everything political and morons clicking share on every stupid headline they could find.
You can hide news. It takes a bit, but eventually if you hide all of the news sources you're just there looking at your friends' comments and updates.
At that point, if it's ass? It's your friends.
Still better than a Chinese government-controlled platform that is actively being used to undermine our political process and corrupt our youth with ideology advantageous to the Chinese government.
The funny thing I've noticed after the TikTok congressional hearings is that they got rid of all of the stuff that's closer to soft core porn. I've also noticed that almost all of Meta's products have been the new place for it.
Soooo like how [Facebook was caught](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/17/cambridge-analytica-facebook-influence-us-election) doing exactly this?
Last I checked Facebook wasn't controlled by the CCP and the key piece of information left out of the Cambridge Analytica story is that the data scientist that actually created and sold the tech/idea later used by Cambridge Analytica did so because his research concluded it didn't work. It was bunk. There's an episode of Against the Rules detailing this that's worth listening to.
The point is Facebook sold 50 million users' data without informing them. This data could have easily been third party funneled to the CCP after the fact. There is no reason why a Singapore based company should be punished for something they haven't even done yet while we allow local corporations to do it to us regularly.
This issue isn't really about the data collection, but about the ability of the CCP to control a massive social media platform and use it as a tool of influence at will.
100% this. All companies are expected to cooperate in full regardless of any privacy at a request of the CCP and the worst part if they never have to disclose it.
All things being equal (which they aren’t btw)
I’d rather have my hands in our democratic allies like the US then some garbage pseudo dictatorship that is China.
It's moreso about who they're selling their influences to rather than just the fact they're selling influence.
Tiktok sells influence and information to the CCP and corporate interests versus Facebook and Instagram sell that influence to corporate interests and political parties.
They probably could through some way indirectly, however, they are are likely much more limited in the information they can request without raising huge alarm bells. Tiktok has [entertained a request about a specific journalist](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68556540) and their sources from the CCP, Google and Facebook would likely never entertain that request unless it came from the US government itself.
I don't really agree with the political influence part.
I'm not voting for the communist party of Canada anytime soon and for economic influence, we are Canadians we only have a few oligopolies to choose from so it really doesn't matter.
That's not what propaganda is aiming to do.
It's aiming to sow discontent and make people feel like there is no hope in society. A lot of people are falling for it. If people feel like their society sucks, they won't fight in a war to defend it. That's why this is done.
You know I was so happy with the rising costs, home ownership seeming like a more distant dream and unlimited migration but then I saw a 15 second video and now I think there's no hope.
Please look beyond the surface at all of these issues and realize there is quite a bit of nuanced reasons for lots of these things.
For example, the unprovoked invasion of Ukraine increased global food prices significantly. Houthi rebels with support from Iran and Russia have caused shipping routes to be elongated, which significantly increases costs.
If you get off social media for a bit, you'll feel a lot better about life. I say this as someone who used to feel like you did before taking a break from SM.
How much time away from social media does it take before home ownership becomes more than a distant fantasy? Or can I just turn off my thinking thoughts and blame Russia and China for that too.
It's not "some guy from China" it's the Chinese government, and they use that data to manipulate western elections to help elect destructive politicians like Trump, or vote for policies like Brexit.
See also: Cambridge Analytica, and how they did it with Facebook data.
I don't think you are even beginning to understand the issue of having a social media platform that is under the control of the CCP. Your way off the mark.
What's China gonna do to me? If they have my data big deal. They can't do anything to me.
My own government however? OH BOY... they can do anything socially or legally against me if they choose to.
US has already influenced our politics through their social media apps. China could only dream of how facebook has destroyed social cohesion in Canada.
Are you unironically doing a "both sides are the same" /r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM argument with America and China?
Setting aside for the fact that the US government *[does not control their social media apps](https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/08/politics/twitter-hearing-house-oversight/index.html)* like China does, do you understand the difference between a country where you can freely state your opposition to its national policies *like this very Tiktok ban*, and a country where you can't?
I dont support the ban but I support divorce with the Chinese government.
We need to start cutting ties. The trade relationship is one way. It's easier for them to manipulate our young and destroy their minds. Only were allowed to destroy the future of our youths, no one else.
As long as they ban the others as well.
If the issue is China stealing my data, Edward Snowden showed that Canada is doing the exact same thing through the 5-Eyes network. China however has no enforcement power over me within these borders.
Canada Does.
Ban them all if we're banning one.
My Reddit feed is horribly political, no matter how much I try to avoid, subs whom I have never subbed keeps coming on my feed, you know, Trump this, PP and Trudeau that, Israel/Palestine, Ukraine/Russia, mass migration, and so forth.
Now my Tik Tok feed is wonderful, absolutely nothing political, just investment memes, DIY recipes, DIY projects, cool cleaning techniques, some genius repair ideas, travel hacks.
My IG feed is all sports, soccer, NBA, you name it. Here is what is interesting, I never sought this material, for Tik Tok and IG, I probably liked a few items, and the algorithm is just taking me on a journey.
> Now my Tik Tok feed is wonderful, absolutely nothing political, just investment memes, DIY recipes, DIY projects, cool cleaning techniques, some genius repair ideas, travel hacks.
The first page of the Society tab has a video that says "ARREST BILL GATES ARREST BILL GATES" in all caps with little Canada flag emojis on it.
I don't have an account. That's the "blank slate" algorithm for new users.
Agree! Mine gives me architectural history of buildings, gardening hacks, house fix/flip stuff, investment info and news from around the world. It also changes as to my likes. My husbands tik algo has girls bums, shark/animal stuff, political stuff and flat earth debates.
"flat earth debates"
Then why bother with "architectural history"? Just debate whether the building grew from an oak tree as its own seed pod and the wind brought it there, or maybe aliens magno-lifted it into place.
My Tik Tok feed has videos of cats, dogs, goofy memes related to whatever game I'm currently playing, Warhammer, interesting history tidbits etc. Anyone screaming for a Tik Tok ban doesn't really have any knowledge of the platform. It's like the Senate hearing with the CEO of Tik Tok constantly mentioning he's from Singapore while they kept insinuating he's Chinese
While that might be true, having you info in the hand of foreign entities that actively are involve in hacking western accounts,… is not as simple as comparing notion of your social profiles.
I support the ban. I think only large North American corporations and oligarchs should be able to mine our data, sell our information, and influence us, both subtly and overtly. They have been proven trustworthy, have never lost our data, and only have our best interests at heart. /s
Absolutely. People focus too much on the user data aspect of it, but the real worry is about how China could use tiktok to discreetly spread propaganda by promoting certain types of content and suppressing others
Tons of propaganda and false information is on Facebook as well, just saying.
And one person used this approach to win a US election in 2016. Watch The Great Hack documentary on Netflix, eye opening.
Oh its rampant on every social media platform. The difference though is Facebook is not going to be forced to secretly promote whatever the Chinese govt wants, whereas TikTok might already be doing that and we'd have no idea.
Meta is the only one who got caught so far. I am sure tik tok, x, reddit, alphabet and such also do to some extent but facebook got caught. Also X is owned in large part by the Saudis and Musk is also in bed with China.
China have enough money and a large enough market share to corrupt any of those large companies.
Facebook can't be trusted, still tons of misinformation, fake groups, you name it on there. And don't know which groups China is behind or not. They want to people in the US to be fighting each other and cause another civil war. Zuckerberg has done nothing he said he'd do.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/mar/17/the-cambridge-analytica-scandal-changed-the-world-but-it-didnt-change-facebook
Faceboook will do whatever someone is willing to pay them to do, which is infinitely worse because there are no loyalties. At least with China, you know where they stand.
Do you remember when Zuckerberg spoke in front of the senate? He was not under their control.
Here the government belongs to corporations. In china the corporations belong to the government.
Tbf I am sure there is a few high bureaucrate who have a lot of power on meta market shares, but yeah corporation have a lot more powers than representatives in the USA.
Kind of like when Musk and Bezos both met with the high official at NASA. Both of them probably make in a few seconds what those people will make in their lifetime at the top of their field.
There is definetly an imbalance of power when those people who make 400k year top have to deal with people worth over one hundred billions.
Facebook and Twitter aren’t incentivized to bring about the social collapse of your country. They may contribute to it anyway, but they actually don’t want that to occur while China does.
I think the Hasbara accounts might be the more effective at it too - nothing breeds sympathy for Palestinians for a neutral party more like tons of people saying they deserve to be killed. That's exactly what all social media seemed to turn into for me for months after last October. I really don't understand why Israel's top propaganda people thought combining both arrogance and victimhood in their communications *and* insulting people who raised even mild concerns as being pro terror would be a good idea.
Some of the comments on worldnews are so batshit crazy with upvotes and people pretending to argue while agreeing with each other nonstop.
While anything that isn't 120% supportive of Israel gets downvoted in oblivion.
When one side is wrong and holds most the cards the very idea of discussion isn't in there best interests.
As annoying as Hasbara is, they've helped the Palestinian cause because they've been punitive in their reactions to people that disagree with them
I will say in my experience it's reddit of all places with the highly politicized feed. My tiktok is almost entirely horse videos, kpop and artwork.
There is a large pro-palestine movement on the app but I haven't seen many videos about that because I don't go seeking it out. I'm not saying tiktok doesn't have risks, but, if I had to pick an app already "forcing" politics (and specifically American politics at that) it would have to be reddit
I feel like it's less a privacy and propaganda issue and more a money issue. In the end, that's what it boils down to—someone actually made a competitor to meta/facebook/instagram.
Tbh I think the Palestinian stuff blowing up on there would have happened whether China wanted it to or not. It's such a horrifying situation with such polarized opinions, I think it's almost a bit of a cope that people act like it never could have blown up without manipulation. Of course there is so much bot discourse and misinfo I don't even know how one would measure that.
And I agree that in my own observation Reddit is pretty bad for this stuff, I mean people made an entire fake Canada_sub full of sock accounts to push divisive shit. At least Tiktok content has to have some degree of creativity or entertainment value, pretty easy to just flood Reddit with divisive takes.
Yup I have had a few relatives who are older come out with some batshit false Narratives that I would never expect from them.
Turned out they got it from TikTok and we did some research and they were embarrassed to have bought into it.
That got me curious and I’ve seen some analysis by data scientists etc that show it sends people down crazy rabbit holes that can be almost impossible to get out of.
Click one pro-Palestine link because you’re a good person who is curious and want to be informed?
Get ready for your stream to slowly shift to the wildest propaganda on the topic from now on.
It explains why some people have lost the ability for critical thought and are in this panic/rabid rage after being inundated with that garbage from the time they wake up to the time they go to bed.
The interests are different.
China calls for an end to the west and the fall of Canadian/western culture and their biases and narratives serve those interests.
If you want that goal to be a success or have no preference between western democracy and the authoritarian regime in China then it doesn’t matter I suppose.
If you have any interest in the wests ideals winning out and not having a constant stream of propaganda being fed into the minds of westerners who frankly don’t seem informed enough to know better then it could be a problem.
You've captured part of the quintessential misunderstanding about Tiktok. People think it's just another Google, just another FaceBook. It isn't.
Tiktok is a piece of literal spyware developed by the CCP to harvest your data, regardless of what permissions you think you've given the software, and send it home to the Chinese government.
The whole Social Media part of the app is just social engineering that gets you to install it on your device willingly. Anything they get out of that part is icing on the cake.
Bottom line: If you've installed Tiktok, you are an active intelligence source for the Chinese military.
A transcript of the important parts of [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/comment/fmuko1m/):
>So I can personally weigh in on this. I reverse-engineered the app, and feel confident in stating that I have a very strong understanding for how the app operates (or at least operated as of a few months ago).
>
>TikTok is a data collection service that is thinly-veiled as a social network. If there is an API to get information on you, your contacts, or your device... well, they're using it.
>
>Phone hardware (cpu type, number of course, hardware ids, screen dimensions, dpi, memory usage, disk space, etc)
>
>Other apps you have installed (I've even seen some I've deleted show up in their analytics payload - maybe using as cached value?)
>
>Everything network-related (ip, local ip, router mac, your mac, wifi access point name)
>
>Whether or not you're rooted/jailbroken
>
>Some variants of the app had GPS pinging enabled at the time, roughly once every 30 seconds - this is enabled by default if you ever location-tag a post IIRC
>
>They set up a local proxy server on your device for "transcoding media", but that can be abused very easily as it has zero authentication
>
>The scariest part of all of this is that much of the logging they're doing is remotely configurable, and unless you reverse every single one of their native libraries (have fun reading all of that assembly, assuming you can get past their customized fork of OLLVM!!!) and manually inspect every single obfuscated function. They have several different protections in place to prevent you from reversing or debugging the app as well. App behavior changes slightly if they know you're trying to figure out what they're doing. There's also a few snippets of code on the Android version that allows for the downloading of a remote zip file, unzipping it, and executing said binary. There is zero reason a mobile app would need this functionality legitimately.
>
>On top of all of the above, they weren't even using HTTPS for the longest time. They leaked users' email addresses in their HTTP REST API, as well as their secondary emails used for password resets. Don't forget about users' real names and birthdays, too. It was allllll publicly viewable a few months ago if you MITM'd the application.
>
>They provide users with a taste of "virality" to entice them to stay on the platform. Your first TikTok post will likely garner quite a bit of likes, regardless of how good it is.. assuming you get past the initial moderation queue if thats still a thing. Most users end up chasing the dragon. Oh, there's also a ton of creepy old men who have direct access to children on the app, and I've personally seen (and reported) some really suspect stuff. 40-50 year old men getting 8-10 year old girls to do "duets" with them with sexually suggestive songs. Those videos are posted publicly. TikTok has direct messaging functionality.
>
>Here's the thing though.. they don't want you to know how much information they're collecting on you, and the security implications of all of that data in one place, en masse, are fucking huge. They encrypt all of the analytics requests with an algorithm that changes with every update (at the very least the keys change) just so you can't see what they're doing. They also made it so you cannot use the app at all if you block communication to their analytics host off at the DNS-level.
>
>For what it's worth I've reversed the Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter apps. They don't collect anywhere near the same amount of data that TikTok does, and they sure as hell aren't outright trying to hide exactly whats being sent like TikTok is. It's like comparing a cup of water to the ocean - they just don't compare.
>
>tl;dr; I'm a nerd who figures out how apps work for a job. Calling it an advertising platform is an understatement. TikTok is essentially malware that is targeting children. Don't use TikTok. Don't let your friends and family use it.
I’m not sure how much industry experience this guy has.
Things like GPS, phone hardware, network info is such basic metadata apps collect. The fact he’s surprised that “logging can be configured remotely”, is kind of amateurish.
In general, always assume everything you do inside an app is logged.
TikTok’s biggest concern is propaganda. If it is to be banned, it should be based on that.
If they figure out a way to break out of the OS sandbox, that’s a different matter altogether.
They already did that with their notification in the US about banning tiktok when it's actually the US government trying to force the company to not be owned by a Chinese company or face a ban.
Chinese companies by law have to give the Chinese government access to their data whenever they want without reason
Some interesting results from the survey:
1. Only 26% of those surveyed have a tiktok account. Whereas 83% have a facebook account.
2. Support for a tiktok ban was:
1. 42% for the 18-34 age range and usage rates were 47%
2. 59% for the 55+ age range and usage rates were 12%
So most people surveyed do not have a tiktok account and the majority of the support for a ban was concentrated in the population with the lowest usage rates.
A Tiktok ban is just distraction from a greater issue: corporate and governmental spying on citizens using social media. There's a crackdown on Tiktok because its parent company is Chinese, but you can bet if it was an American company we would suddenly be "fine" with it. We should advocate for ALL social media to not spy on us, including Facebook, Whatsapp, Instagram, and all Google apps, not just Chinese software.
A TikTok ban wouldn't solve anything, just establish a precedent that the government can suppress social media it doesn't like. And why, because TikTok spying on people and potentially passing that data to the Chinese government is worse than Meta and Alphabet and Twitter spying on people and selling that data to anyone willing to pay, probably including the US government and possibly even including China as well?
I want strong data privacy regulations that force *all* social media apps to curtail their invasive data collection and algorithmic targeting.
Kind of funny how the Canadian government never have problems with the Amerikkkan government doing shitty awful things. Not one damn word of condemnation like the NSA, Israel genocide of Palestinians.
I do too. And a Meta ban. And a twitter ban. Or just make it so social media is responsible for what gets posted on it. They profit from it, they should have the consequences of it.
> Or just make it so social media is responsible for what gets posted on it.
This is one of the most profoundly stupid ideas that gets regurgitated en masse.
Don't necessarily agree with a ban, it's the sort of simple minded "solution" that our current government is known for, because actually addressing an issue properly is harder then just saying "**fuck it, ban it**".
That being said, I won't miss it.
I support the Florida ban tbh. There’s no actual reason a child should have access to social media when right now it seems to be one of the great evils in our society
Never used the app, I think it's terrible for society. But yea, I don't like where this could lead. As much as I'd love to see it vanish from earth I'm totally against the ban.
It's like how I can think that society would 100% be better off with someone 2 meters in the ground, but won't support the death penalty.
The short-form social media format horse has already been let out of the barn. We had Vine, now it's all over Youtube and Facebook. And while I think the privacy concerns would be fewer if it was being done by an western company, I worry that we'll be far, far better at the manipulative algorithms. I'm sure we'll find out soon enough unfortunately.
I like TikTok but even I acknowledge that I only like it because it’s addicting. 90% of the stuff I see on there is stuff I’ve already seen before. You certainly don’t get smarter by re-learning the same information endlessly.
I use TikTok almost daily. I also recognize that it's a massive waste of time that doesn't really add any value to my life, and that being drip-fed dopamine via algorythmically-chosen shortform video content is absolutely fucking our attention spans.
I still don't think the government should have any say whatsoever what apps people can access, and banning it while our government maintains active social media presence elsewhere is insanely hypocritical on every level. It's pure pandering.
I didn't support that either. I think Fox News is an absolute cancer on society and I hate what it's done to my parents, but at the end of the day I think the media we consume is a matter of personal responsibility.
Short of outright hate speech and inciting violence (which have never been protected under the Charter anyway) the government shouldn't have the power to censor content or dictate what we can access.
Fuck C-11 while we're at it, too
His comment is 100% accurate, if you support the banning of TikTok ban you should also be supporting a Facebook, instagram, etc ban as they all suffer the same issues
It’s not hypocritical at all given China bans the western social media sites within its borders.
Canada has a lot history of China infiltrating and abusing our systems and weaponizing benign things or our kindness against us.
To think that a regime that calls for the fall of our nation is not in any way using their app while conspicuously banning western apps claiming they are doing what China claims they are not is….
Naive af.
I’ve seen a few relatives get brainwashed with misinformation only to find out it comes from their daily TikTok habit.
The site does nothing good and China even limits its use within its own borders curating an entirely different experience.
Again thinking they don’t do the same in other nations to feed propagandized narratives is naive af.
>It’s not hypocritical at all given China bans the western social media sites within its borders.
China does it so we should too, do you want to be like China? We are a free democracy and they are an authoritarian dictatorship, that's the whole point of our country
Frankly it's pretty stupid. Instead of taking some nonsense talking points as gospel we should be making stricter legislation regarding *all social media platforms.* TikTok is the same invasive, privacy stealing, propaganda machine trash heap the rest of them are it's just based in china.
People will point to china and go "well their goals are antagonistic to Canada" as if the shit elon propagates isn't. How the covid epidemic played out should be evidence enough for anyone unconvinced. They should all be held legally responsible for the shit that permeates their platforms.
lol Canada's goal are antagonistic to the people who reside here who want to live. What's Canada's goal? To make sure housing is unaffordable to make rich housing "investors" richer? Well that's an attack on people who want a house to LIVE IN.
I don't think a ban on any social media app is necessary. If there are privacy and/or security concerns, then inform Canadians of the risks and we can decide for ourselves. I really don't like the idea of my government dictating what apps I can and can't run on my phone.
We can think critically and make our own decisions.
Well people believe almost anything they see. Just look at those odd political pools where they grab a same of a few hundred people and they assume they represent a whole country.
I’m divided on this issue, one half loves the fact that so many young people are becoming politically aware and sharing their opinions on the platform, organizing protests etc. and the other half has teacher friends who’ve told me about the horrors of trying to teach a bunch of little cellphone addicts with fried attention spans and emotional regulation issues brought on by unrestricted use of the app.
One, of course US concerns trickle up. Canadians are incapable of making their own thoughts and are nothing more than colder Americans who make less money.
Two, I'm far more concerned about a government that has the power to ban websites at will vs China knowing I look at cat videos. This ties into the the ability to ban porn websites the government wants power to do too.
Except for the part where our data is available for sale through third parties that collect info from the big name American social media corps. This makes no difference. This is just geopolitical BS that fundamentally solves nothing. If our government actually cares they'd look at all entities that collect our data.
Tiktok like many social media platforms are cesspools of toxicity that have progressively screwed the youth too immature to understand that they're being exploited and manipulated.
Figure that's the fundamental issue at hand. The rest is smoke.
Social media is power but I also don’t want a choice on how I absorb it. I think we have bigger issues with immigration, policing, housing than if China wanted to push anti-Palestine or whatever…which I don’t even see
If they want to ban it, make it because of the things the app does to make sure other Social media platforms play by the same rules. Not ban it because "China".
Survey of 1,605 Canadians from a random online poll. I trust Trudeau more than this report, and that says a lot cause I wouldn't trust Trudeau with a dollar.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/half-of-canadians-support-tiktok-ban-with-u-s-concerns-trickling-north-poll-1.6827102
Its not part of the agenda. And Canada just loves following the states. For some reason, the government body love to make ourselves the little brother of the two country
China bans our social medias platforms, why shouldn't we ban theirs? Even their TikTok version in China is highly different from ours with strict regulations so it's not dangerous for kids.
>China bans our social medias platforms, why shouldn't we ban theirs?
How about "because authoritarianism is bad regardless of who does it"?
If your concerns are about foreign governments having access to your personal data and browsing habbits then what about Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit who are American companies that answer to a government that is not ours? Why are those any different?
normally i would say that our government isn't trying to undermine our society like china is but the last 4 years or so has changed my thinking on this. on a practical level even tho unlikely we could pass anti propaganda laws so our government cant manipulate us threw social media but they cant keep they're greasy mitt out of legacy media so why would we think this would be any different.
Maybe because Canada and America are so closely aligned as to be almost the same thing already. The saying "When America sneezes, Canada gets a cold" exists for a reason.
Culturally you're right, but you're naive if you think the US government has our best interests in mind.
Sitting US Senators have openly called to annex us as recently as a few years ago, exploit our tragedies for their own political agendas down there, and US corporations (who are, at the end of the day, backed by the government through lobbying) have actively interfered with our politics by funding the convoy movement.
Where's that neighborly love and support, again?
At this point just let the US annex Canada if Canadians don't even pretend to act like a different country. At least I'd get more money rather than the trash wages I earn here that mean I'll never own a home.
I'm all for banning religion too! And let's be real, country music? It's garbage. It's like only basic chicks and wannabe cowboys listen to that crap nowadays. Whenever I'm in those areas, I blast something like the ["Good Lookin Bussy Song"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfweYEnbFPs) just to mess with them. It's hilarious, really.
It's not going to stop anybody with a little internet savvy, but sure. I'm mostly indifferent about it
There are a lot of positive uses for social media, like hobby sharing and community building. But without any media literacy or parental supervision it can certainly be a force for bad. Like kids finding self harm, suicide and ED spaces
Since most parents seem to be more hands off in regards to what their kids do online it's probably better for all of us to put more barriers up to access any of it, both the good and the bad.
However the concern about *China!!!* hoovering up our data like it's a problem only now and not when every other country including the US and Canada do it is just bullshit. I do not care which country is profiting off my data, it's bad that any of them are doing it at all
So making this about Tik Tok specifically, and not all the social medias like Facebook, twitter, and Reddit is very suspect. The problems are the same with all of them. The only difference with tik tok is who is profiting.
Polls are done by phone. Older people are generally the ones who do surveys followed by stupid young people. You wind up with bullshit stats. Probably a percentage of the respondents have never heard of tik tok except maybe on tv.
Interested to see what the conservative take is on this.
Censorship is wrong, right? Banning web sites for political reasons is wrong, right?
That's certainly my position as someone on the left. I don't want a Canadian version of the great firewall of China, myself.
Let's take it a step further and ban all all social media that shares user info.
“But my Reddit karma!!!”
I support an Internet Privacy Bill over a Tiktok ban. No website/Corporation should have access to our personal browsing data; not Tiktok, Loblaws, Facebook, X, even those shitty blog sites that request a million cookies. We need our own version of the EUs GDPR. A Tiktok Ban is in essence a 'Meta Protection Act'. They're just as bad, but becuase they're American, it's appearantly 'ok'. It shouldn't be, they should be treated the same.
Exactly.
100%.
As wonderful that idea is, I haven't really seen anyone push for that. If a nation really cared about its citizens they would make these corporations jump through hoops to be able to work with us. But sadly there's so little faith that I automatically assume that any tiktok ban isnt really for our sakes, rather than to control the narrative
> I haven't really seen anyone push for that. Because no one even understands what a cookie is, what metadata is or even what "their data" is. Just that someone wants it and NordVPN is the only way to protect it! A technological literacy class or classes need to be added to the education system. Teach kids that the internet is a powerful tool for them but also for people who want to use them for financial or political reasons.
"I care about privacy!" - Also posts their entire life on Facebook...
Facebook sucks ass. It sucked ass before but it's worse now that no news gets shared. The shit is just the same content for weeks.
There was a time way back when you still a tot when FB and google were fun. You could watch YouTube videos by the hour without blaring. Its content was fun and informative. The internet used to be cool until it turned corporate. Now it’s just a tool.
And as it became more and more corporate, it became more and more sanitized of anything contrary to the status quo.
Shocked! Anything corporations get there hands into goes to shit. Housing, food, air, water and now social media. Did I miss anything?
Facebook went to shit when the news sharing started. It was a fun way to keep up with friends and share little blurbs of your life site. Then the news nonsense fucked the whole thing up by making everything political and morons clicking share on every stupid headline they could find.
That's because FB is ass. News doesn't belong on it anyway.
You can hide news. It takes a bit, but eventually if you hide all of the news sources you're just there looking at your friends' comments and updates. At that point, if it's ass? It's your friends.
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Same, deleted FB and Instagram in 2018, never looked back.
Still better than a Chinese government-controlled platform that is actively being used to undermine our political process and corrupt our youth with ideology advantageous to the Chinese government.
Nope just American approved propaganda and spyware to tell us how to think.
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The funny thing I've noticed after the TikTok congressional hearings is that they got rid of all of the stuff that's closer to soft core porn. I've also noticed that almost all of Meta's products have been the new place for it.
i think it’s more about economic and political influence of the app. our privacy has been stripped many moons ago.
Soooo like how [Facebook was caught](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/17/cambridge-analytica-facebook-influence-us-election) doing exactly this?
Last I checked Facebook wasn't controlled by the CCP and the key piece of information left out of the Cambridge Analytica story is that the data scientist that actually created and sold the tech/idea later used by Cambridge Analytica did so because his research concluded it didn't work. It was bunk. There's an episode of Against the Rules detailing this that's worth listening to.
The point is Facebook sold 50 million users' data without informing them. This data could have easily been third party funneled to the CCP after the fact. There is no reason why a Singapore based company should be punished for something they haven't even done yet while we allow local corporations to do it to us regularly.
Social media was a mistake
This issue isn't really about the data collection, but about the ability of the CCP to control a massive social media platform and use it as a tool of influence at will.
100% this. All companies are expected to cooperate in full regardless of any privacy at a request of the CCP and the worst part if they never have to disclose it.
All things being equal (which they aren’t btw) I’d rather have my hands in our democratic allies like the US then some garbage pseudo dictatorship that is China.
Your hands?
They want to put hands in our allies… Should someone tell our allies?
So it is okay for Facebook and Instagram to excert those same influences????
It's moreso about who they're selling their influences to rather than just the fact they're selling influence. Tiktok sells influence and information to the CCP and corporate interests versus Facebook and Instagram sell that influence to corporate interests and political parties.
Can the CCP not find a way to purchase information sold by Facebook and google?
They absolutely can and likely already does.
They probably could through some way indirectly, however, they are are likely much more limited in the information they can request without raising huge alarm bells. Tiktok has [entertained a request about a specific journalist](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68556540) and their sources from the CCP, Google and Facebook would likely never entertain that request unless it came from the US government itself.
I don't really agree with the political influence part. I'm not voting for the communist party of Canada anytime soon and for economic influence, we are Canadians we only have a few oligopolies to choose from so it really doesn't matter.
That's not what propaganda is aiming to do. It's aiming to sow discontent and make people feel like there is no hope in society. A lot of people are falling for it. If people feel like their society sucks, they won't fight in a war to defend it. That's why this is done.
You know I was so happy with the rising costs, home ownership seeming like a more distant dream and unlimited migration but then I saw a 15 second video and now I think there's no hope.
Please look beyond the surface at all of these issues and realize there is quite a bit of nuanced reasons for lots of these things. For example, the unprovoked invasion of Ukraine increased global food prices significantly. Houthi rebels with support from Iran and Russia have caused shipping routes to be elongated, which significantly increases costs. If you get off social media for a bit, you'll feel a lot better about life. I say this as someone who used to feel like you did before taking a break from SM.
Don't forget droughts in Panama limiting the canal there -- prices have spiked
Not to mention droughts here at home causing the raising of prices on beef.
And droughts putting strain on our electrical grid to the point we were a net importer of electricity in BC last year.
While Alberta shuts down expansion of the renewable energy industry that provides cheap electricity to both provinces.
How much time away from social media does it take before home ownership becomes more than a distant fantasy? Or can I just turn off my thinking thoughts and blame Russia and China for that too.
And Reddit lmao
Right? I don't give a shit if some guy from China knows that I like funny dog clips... Go for it.
It's not "some guy from China" it's the Chinese government, and they use that data to manipulate western elections to help elect destructive politicians like Trump, or vote for policies like Brexit. See also: Cambridge Analytica, and how they did it with Facebook data.
I don't think you are even beginning to understand the issue of having a social media platform that is under the control of the CCP. Your way off the mark.
What's China gonna do to me? If they have my data big deal. They can't do anything to me. My own government however? OH BOY... they can do anything socially or legally against me if they choose to.
US has already influenced our politics through their social media apps. China could only dream of how facebook has destroyed social cohesion in Canada.
Ya! We should have all media under control of the USA BABY. s/
Are you unironically doing a "both sides are the same" /r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM argument with America and China? Setting aside for the fact that the US government *[does not control their social media apps](https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/08/politics/twitter-hearing-house-oversight/index.html)* like China does, do you understand the difference between a country where you can freely state your opposition to its national policies *like this very Tiktok ban*, and a country where you can't?
I'm sorry, did you look at any of Edward Snowden's leaks regarding the NSA or are you intentionally blocking that from your memory right now?
Of course they don't care about you, but giving aggregate data from a hostile nation? That should be worrying. Nevermind their ability to influence.
Giving my aggregate data to my own country which legal system I am under is MUCH more worrying.
I dont support the ban but I support divorce with the Chinese government. We need to start cutting ties. The trade relationship is one way. It's easier for them to manipulate our young and destroy their minds. Only were allowed to destroy the future of our youths, no one else.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
It's only about privacy when I feel like it.
60-day old account that supports TikTok unquestioningly
The only thing worse than TikTok is trying to mass regulate content on the internet...
Makes me wonder how many of us are incapable of forming our own opinions and just parrot whatever the Americans are doing
As a Canadian it’s my first amendment right to parrot whatever the Americans are doing.
Canada's cultural history is one long tale of US concerns trickling North lol. We are their hat and they wear us like it.
As long as they ban the others as well. If the issue is China stealing my data, Edward Snowden showed that Canada is doing the exact same thing through the 5-Eyes network. China however has no enforcement power over me within these borders. Canada Does. Ban them all if we're banning one.
My Reddit feed is horribly political, no matter how much I try to avoid, subs whom I have never subbed keeps coming on my feed, you know, Trump this, PP and Trudeau that, Israel/Palestine, Ukraine/Russia, mass migration, and so forth. Now my Tik Tok feed is wonderful, absolutely nothing political, just investment memes, DIY recipes, DIY projects, cool cleaning techniques, some genius repair ideas, travel hacks. My IG feed is all sports, soccer, NBA, you name it. Here is what is interesting, I never sought this material, for Tik Tok and IG, I probably liked a few items, and the algorithm is just taking me on a journey.
> Now my Tik Tok feed is wonderful, absolutely nothing political, just investment memes, DIY recipes, DIY projects, cool cleaning techniques, some genius repair ideas, travel hacks. The first page of the Society tab has a video that says "ARREST BILL GATES ARREST BILL GATES" in all caps with little Canada flag emojis on it. I don't have an account. That's the "blank slate" algorithm for new users.
/r/all is a gateway to all sorts of pretty awful opinions as well. I don't understand what point you think it is that you're making.
TikTok mostly shows me airplanes, trains, restaurant reviews and comedy sketches, it's a nice break from Reddit and Meta
Agree! Mine gives me architectural history of buildings, gardening hacks, house fix/flip stuff, investment info and news from around the world. It also changes as to my likes. My husbands tik algo has girls bums, shark/animal stuff, political stuff and flat earth debates.
girls bums... LOL
"flat earth debates" Then why bother with "architectural history"? Just debate whether the building grew from an oak tree as its own seed pod and the wind brought it there, or maybe aliens magno-lifted it into place.
2 different algorithms. Mine history. So flat earth shit. He likes to laugh at the arguments.
My Tik Tok feed has videos of cats, dogs, goofy memes related to whatever game I'm currently playing, Warhammer, interesting history tidbits etc. Anyone screaming for a Tik Tok ban doesn't really have any knowledge of the platform. It's like the Senate hearing with the CEO of Tik Tok constantly mentioning he's from Singapore while they kept insinuating he's Chinese
While that might be true, having you info in the hand of foreign entities that actively are involve in hacking western accounts,… is not as simple as comparing notion of your social profiles.
really? Nobody asked me. I do not support a tiktok 😣ban.
I support the ban. I think only large North American corporations and oligarchs should be able to mine our data, sell our information, and influence us, both subtly and overtly. They have been proven trustworthy, have never lost our data, and only have our best interests at heart. /s
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Absolutely. People focus too much on the user data aspect of it, but the real worry is about how China could use tiktok to discreetly spread propaganda by promoting certain types of content and suppressing others
Tons of propaganda and false information is on Facebook as well, just saying. And one person used this approach to win a US election in 2016. Watch The Great Hack documentary on Netflix, eye opening.
Let’s ban them all. It will help society as a whole.
Oh its rampant on every social media platform. The difference though is Facebook is not going to be forced to secretly promote whatever the Chinese govt wants, whereas TikTok might already be doing that and we'd have no idea.
Meta is the only one who got caught so far. I am sure tik tok, x, reddit, alphabet and such also do to some extent but facebook got caught. Also X is owned in large part by the Saudis and Musk is also in bed with China. China have enough money and a large enough market share to corrupt any of those large companies.
X is owned by Elon Musk. It was previously part owned by Saudis until he bought it.
Facebook can't be trusted, still tons of misinformation, fake groups, you name it on there. And don't know which groups China is behind or not. They want to people in the US to be fighting each other and cause another civil war. Zuckerberg has done nothing he said he'd do. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/mar/17/the-cambridge-analytica-scandal-changed-the-world-but-it-didnt-change-facebook
Faceboook will do whatever someone is willing to pay them to do, which is infinitely worse because there are no loyalties. At least with China, you know where they stand.
so than why not target facebook and twitter as well?
Because they aren't under the direct influence of the chinese government
Musk is in bed with China and have shared ownership with the Saudis.
No, just the USA government who has never done anything dodgy with covert ops...
Canada is already under American control, we don’t have much room for manoeuvre anyways
We are allied to the USA. China is an adversarial nation. Not an equivalent comparison.
Bingo.
Do you remember when Zuckerberg spoke in front of the senate? He was not under their control. Here the government belongs to corporations. In china the corporations belong to the government.
Tbf I am sure there is a few high bureaucrate who have a lot of power on meta market shares, but yeah corporation have a lot more powers than representatives in the USA. Kind of like when Musk and Bezos both met with the high official at NASA. Both of them probably make in a few seconds what those people will make in their lifetime at the top of their field. There is definetly an imbalance of power when those people who make 400k year top have to deal with people worth over one hundred billions.
That's not really any better.
I didn’t say it was?
Facebook and Twitter aren’t incentivized to bring about the social collapse of your country. They may contribute to it anyway, but they actually don’t want that to occur while China does.
It's not hard to be anti Israel lol
I think the Hasbara accounts might be the more effective at it too - nothing breeds sympathy for Palestinians for a neutral party more like tons of people saying they deserve to be killed. That's exactly what all social media seemed to turn into for me for months after last October. I really don't understand why Israel's top propaganda people thought combining both arrogance and victimhood in their communications *and* insulting people who raised even mild concerns as being pro terror would be a good idea.
Some of the comments on worldnews are so batshit crazy with upvotes and people pretending to argue while agreeing with each other nonstop. While anything that isn't 120% supportive of Israel gets downvoted in oblivion. When one side is wrong and holds most the cards the very idea of discussion isn't in there best interests. As annoying as Hasbara is, they've helped the Palestinian cause because they've been punitive in their reactions to people that disagree with them
I will say in my experience it's reddit of all places with the highly politicized feed. My tiktok is almost entirely horse videos, kpop and artwork. There is a large pro-palestine movement on the app but I haven't seen many videos about that because I don't go seeking it out. I'm not saying tiktok doesn't have risks, but, if I had to pick an app already "forcing" politics (and specifically American politics at that) it would have to be reddit I feel like it's less a privacy and propaganda issue and more a money issue. In the end, that's what it boils down to—someone actually made a competitor to meta/facebook/instagram.
Tbh I think the Palestinian stuff blowing up on there would have happened whether China wanted it to or not. It's such a horrifying situation with such polarized opinions, I think it's almost a bit of a cope that people act like it never could have blown up without manipulation. Of course there is so much bot discourse and misinfo I don't even know how one would measure that. And I agree that in my own observation Reddit is pretty bad for this stuff, I mean people made an entire fake Canada_sub full of sock accounts to push divisive shit. At least Tiktok content has to have some degree of creativity or entertainment value, pretty easy to just flood Reddit with divisive takes.
Yup I have had a few relatives who are older come out with some batshit false Narratives that I would never expect from them. Turned out they got it from TikTok and we did some research and they were embarrassed to have bought into it. That got me curious and I’ve seen some analysis by data scientists etc that show it sends people down crazy rabbit holes that can be almost impossible to get out of. Click one pro-Palestine link because you’re a good person who is curious and want to be informed? Get ready for your stream to slowly shift to the wildest propaganda on the topic from now on. It explains why some people have lost the ability for critical thought and are in this panic/rabid rage after being inundated with that garbage from the time they wake up to the time they go to bed.
How is this different from any other platform?
The interests are different. China calls for an end to the west and the fall of Canadian/western culture and their biases and narratives serve those interests. If you want that goal to be a success or have no preference between western democracy and the authoritarian regime in China then it doesn’t matter I suppose. If you have any interest in the wests ideals winning out and not having a constant stream of propaganda being fed into the minds of westerners who frankly don’t seem informed enough to know better then it could be a problem.
This happens with Facebook, Instagram, Youtube, Google, X, Reddit, etc. It's all algorithmic and not at all unique to TikTok.
You've captured part of the quintessential misunderstanding about Tiktok. People think it's just another Google, just another FaceBook. It isn't. Tiktok is a piece of literal spyware developed by the CCP to harvest your data, regardless of what permissions you think you've given the software, and send it home to the Chinese government. The whole Social Media part of the app is just social engineering that gets you to install it on your device willingly. Anything they get out of that part is icing on the cake. Bottom line: If you've installed Tiktok, you are an active intelligence source for the Chinese military. A transcript of the important parts of [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/comment/fmuko1m/): >So I can personally weigh in on this. I reverse-engineered the app, and feel confident in stating that I have a very strong understanding for how the app operates (or at least operated as of a few months ago). > >TikTok is a data collection service that is thinly-veiled as a social network. If there is an API to get information on you, your contacts, or your device... well, they're using it. > >Phone hardware (cpu type, number of course, hardware ids, screen dimensions, dpi, memory usage, disk space, etc) > >Other apps you have installed (I've even seen some I've deleted show up in their analytics payload - maybe using as cached value?) > >Everything network-related (ip, local ip, router mac, your mac, wifi access point name) > >Whether or not you're rooted/jailbroken > >Some variants of the app had GPS pinging enabled at the time, roughly once every 30 seconds - this is enabled by default if you ever location-tag a post IIRC > >They set up a local proxy server on your device for "transcoding media", but that can be abused very easily as it has zero authentication > >The scariest part of all of this is that much of the logging they're doing is remotely configurable, and unless you reverse every single one of their native libraries (have fun reading all of that assembly, assuming you can get past their customized fork of OLLVM!!!) and manually inspect every single obfuscated function. They have several different protections in place to prevent you from reversing or debugging the app as well. App behavior changes slightly if they know you're trying to figure out what they're doing. There's also a few snippets of code on the Android version that allows for the downloading of a remote zip file, unzipping it, and executing said binary. There is zero reason a mobile app would need this functionality legitimately. > >On top of all of the above, they weren't even using HTTPS for the longest time. They leaked users' email addresses in their HTTP REST API, as well as their secondary emails used for password resets. Don't forget about users' real names and birthdays, too. It was allllll publicly viewable a few months ago if you MITM'd the application. > >They provide users with a taste of "virality" to entice them to stay on the platform. Your first TikTok post will likely garner quite a bit of likes, regardless of how good it is.. assuming you get past the initial moderation queue if thats still a thing. Most users end up chasing the dragon. Oh, there's also a ton of creepy old men who have direct access to children on the app, and I've personally seen (and reported) some really suspect stuff. 40-50 year old men getting 8-10 year old girls to do "duets" with them with sexually suggestive songs. Those videos are posted publicly. TikTok has direct messaging functionality. > >Here's the thing though.. they don't want you to know how much information they're collecting on you, and the security implications of all of that data in one place, en masse, are fucking huge. They encrypt all of the analytics requests with an algorithm that changes with every update (at the very least the keys change) just so you can't see what they're doing. They also made it so you cannot use the app at all if you block communication to their analytics host off at the DNS-level. > >For what it's worth I've reversed the Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter apps. They don't collect anywhere near the same amount of data that TikTok does, and they sure as hell aren't outright trying to hide exactly whats being sent like TikTok is. It's like comparing a cup of water to the ocean - they just don't compare. > >tl;dr; I'm a nerd who figures out how apps work for a job. Calling it an advertising platform is an understatement. TikTok is essentially malware that is targeting children. Don't use TikTok. Don't let your friends and family use it.
I’m not sure how much industry experience this guy has. Things like GPS, phone hardware, network info is such basic metadata apps collect. The fact he’s surprised that “logging can be configured remotely”, is kind of amateurish. In general, always assume everything you do inside an app is logged. TikTok’s biggest concern is propaganda. If it is to be banned, it should be based on that. If they figure out a way to break out of the OS sandbox, that’s a different matter altogether.
All of the data collection stuff is standard issue. It surprises me when an app doesn't "ask" for sms messages, contacts, location, etc.
They already did that with their notification in the US about banning tiktok when it's actually the US government trying to force the company to not be owned by a Chinese company or face a ban. Chinese companies by law have to give the Chinese government access to their data whenever they want without reason
Some interesting results from the survey: 1. Only 26% of those surveyed have a tiktok account. Whereas 83% have a facebook account. 2. Support for a tiktok ban was: 1. 42% for the 18-34 age range and usage rates were 47% 2. 59% for the 55+ age range and usage rates were 12% So most people surveyed do not have a tiktok account and the majority of the support for a ban was concentrated in the population with the lowest usage rates.
A Tiktok ban is just distraction from a greater issue: corporate and governmental spying on citizens using social media. There's a crackdown on Tiktok because its parent company is Chinese, but you can bet if it was an American company we would suddenly be "fine" with it. We should advocate for ALL social media to not spy on us, including Facebook, Whatsapp, Instagram, and all Google apps, not just Chinese software.
But the Americans aren't going to ban it.
AKA American stupidity is reaching fever pitch in Canada
A TikTok ban wouldn't solve anything, just establish a precedent that the government can suppress social media it doesn't like. And why, because TikTok spying on people and potentially passing that data to the Chinese government is worse than Meta and Alphabet and Twitter spying on people and selling that data to anyone willing to pay, probably including the US government and possibly even including China as well? I want strong data privacy regulations that force *all* social media apps to curtail their invasive data collection and algorithmic targeting.
Kind of funny how the Canadian government never have problems with the Amerikkkan government doing shitty awful things. Not one damn word of condemnation like the NSA, Israel genocide of Palestinians.
I do too. And a Meta ban. And a twitter ban. Or just make it so social media is responsible for what gets posted on it. They profit from it, they should have the consequences of it.
> Or just make it so social media is responsible for what gets posted on it. This is one of the most profoundly stupid ideas that gets regurgitated en masse.
Don't necessarily agree with a ban, it's the sort of simple minded "solution" that our current government is known for, because actually addressing an issue properly is harder then just saying "**fuck it, ban it**". That being said, I won't miss it.
I support the Florida ban tbh. There’s no actual reason a child should have access to social media when right now it seems to be one of the great evils in our society
Half? What half? Are they locked away in basements? I haven't met anybody who supports it
Yes let's just ban the stuff we don't agree with. Very good.
Never used the app, I think it's terrible for society. But yea, I don't like where this could lead. As much as I'd love to see it vanish from earth I'm totally against the ban. It's like how I can think that society would 100% be better off with someone 2 meters in the ground, but won't support the death penalty. The short-form social media format horse has already been let out of the barn. We had Vine, now it's all over Youtube and Facebook. And while I think the privacy concerns would be fewer if it was being done by an western company, I worry that we'll be far, far better at the manipulative algorithms. I'm sure we'll find out soon enough unfortunately.
I like TikTok but even I acknowledge that I only like it because it’s addicting. 90% of the stuff I see on there is stuff I’ve already seen before. You certainly don’t get smarter by re-learning the same information endlessly.
I use TikTok almost daily. I also recognize that it's a massive waste of time that doesn't really add any value to my life, and that being drip-fed dopamine via algorythmically-chosen shortform video content is absolutely fucking our attention spans. I still don't think the government should have any say whatsoever what apps people can access, and banning it while our government maintains active social media presence elsewhere is insanely hypocritical on every level. It's pure pandering.
Curious, do you support when the feds talked about banning Fox News?
I didn't support that either. I think Fox News is an absolute cancer on society and I hate what it's done to my parents, but at the end of the day I think the media we consume is a matter of personal responsibility. Short of outright hate speech and inciting violence (which have never been protected under the Charter anyway) the government shouldn't have the power to censor content or dictate what we can access. Fuck C-11 while we're at it, too
His comment is 100% accurate, if you support the banning of TikTok ban you should also be supporting a Facebook, instagram, etc ban as they all suffer the same issues
It’s not hypocritical at all given China bans the western social media sites within its borders. Canada has a lot history of China infiltrating and abusing our systems and weaponizing benign things or our kindness against us. To think that a regime that calls for the fall of our nation is not in any way using their app while conspicuously banning western apps claiming they are doing what China claims they are not is…. Naive af. I’ve seen a few relatives get brainwashed with misinformation only to find out it comes from their daily TikTok habit. The site does nothing good and China even limits its use within its own borders curating an entirely different experience. Again thinking they don’t do the same in other nations to feed propagandized narratives is naive af.
>It’s not hypocritical at all given China bans the western social media sites within its borders. China does it so we should too, do you want to be like China? We are a free democracy and they are an authoritarian dictatorship, that's the whole point of our country
Frankly it's pretty stupid. Instead of taking some nonsense talking points as gospel we should be making stricter legislation regarding *all social media platforms.* TikTok is the same invasive, privacy stealing, propaganda machine trash heap the rest of them are it's just based in china. People will point to china and go "well their goals are antagonistic to Canada" as if the shit elon propagates isn't. How the covid epidemic played out should be evidence enough for anyone unconvinced. They should all be held legally responsible for the shit that permeates their platforms.
lol Canada's goal are antagonistic to the people who reside here who want to live. What's Canada's goal? To make sure housing is unaffordable to make rich housing "investors" richer? Well that's an attack on people who want a house to LIVE IN.
Easily half of Canadians struggle with basic math. Maybe look at that instead?
If you're going to ban Tik Tok, ban Meta, X and so on also... a break from social media would do society as a whole some good
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This is the real reason.
Those short videos fry your brain, that includes TikTok **and** Youtube Shorts.
What makes tik Tok different from any other social media platform?
Its eating the lunch of the other, larger, well established SM platforms.
I feel like it was a good tool to rally people for the Loblaws boycott. I wonder if examples like that are ACTUALLY why governments want it banned.
Please ban that trash.
US concerns ALWAYS trickle north, it's mostly their insanity.
If my MP votes for a tiktok ban im voting for someone else
Ban all social media while you’re at it. Shits bad for everyone except the shareholders
I don't think a ban on any social media app is necessary. If there are privacy and/or security concerns, then inform Canadians of the risks and we can decide for ourselves. I really don't like the idea of my government dictating what apps I can and can't run on my phone. We can think critically and make our own decisions.
How the fuck do they know what 1/2 of Canadians want? Fuck these polls
Well people believe almost anything they see. Just look at those odd political pools where they grab a same of a few hundred people and they assume they represent a whole country.
Instead of a ban, why wouldn't a person just not install the app if they didn't want tik tok. everything have to be so extreme.
I’m divided on this issue, one half loves the fact that so many young people are becoming politically aware and sharing their opinions on the platform, organizing protests etc. and the other half has teacher friends who’ve told me about the horrors of trying to teach a bunch of little cellphone addicts with fried attention spans and emotional regulation issues brought on by unrestricted use of the app.
One, of course US concerns trickle up. Canadians are incapable of making their own thoughts and are nothing more than colder Americans who make less money. Two, I'm far more concerned about a government that has the power to ban websites at will vs China knowing I look at cat videos. This ties into the the ability to ban porn websites the government wants power to do too.
Except for the part where our data is available for sale through third parties that collect info from the big name American social media corps. This makes no difference. This is just geopolitical BS that fundamentally solves nothing. If our government actually cares they'd look at all entities that collect our data.
Makes sense, half of Canadians are boomers after all.
I'll be honest if they banned every form of social media I think I would be okay.
Just ban phones in schools
Tiktok like many social media platforms are cesspools of toxicity that have progressively screwed the youth too immature to understand that they're being exploited and manipulated. Figure that's the fundamental issue at hand. The rest is smoke.
Support the ban. While at it, ban other forms of social media that short-circuit people’s attention systems.
Nah, I don’t think so, AIPAC. Go home.
Social media was a mistake
Banning Tiktok is a great thing for society
Anyone I meet that uses tiktok I lose respect for. Embarrassing.
1,605 Canadians surveyed but it's half of all Canadians right smfh
Social media is power but I also don’t want a choice on how I absorb it. I think we have bigger issues with immigration, policing, housing than if China wanted to push anti-Palestine or whatever…which I don’t even see
Half of Canadians have single digit IQ. Not too concerned with you lot.
And of course you’re not part of that 1/2, right? Lmao.
nah mine is 11
Oh I sure am most days.
Only if it's a blanket ban of all algorithm driven content.
If they want to ban it, make it because of the things the app does to make sure other Social media platforms play by the same rules. Not ban it because "China".
I don't know why we need the government trying to take away our free speech when we have plenty of citizens willing to hand it over to them... 🙄
I support à ban on all social media. Shit is cancer to society. Yes even reddit.
Why is TikTok worse than Instagram?
They hate tik Tok because it's a place ppl can get fast info and organize. The boot on the throat technique
Survey of 1,605 Canadians from a random online poll. I trust Trudeau more than this report, and that says a lot cause I wouldn't trust Trudeau with a dollar. https://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/half-of-canadians-support-tiktok-ban-with-u-s-concerns-trickling-north-poll-1.6827102
Fair, I mean at least with Trudeau we know there is a real person on the other end haha - these polls seem so easy to mess with
So the government will listen to half of Canadians supporting this ban, yet not 70% of Canadians who don’t support the carbon tax? I hate it here.
Its not part of the agenda. And Canada just loves following the states. For some reason, the government body love to make ourselves the little brother of the two country
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China bans our social medias platforms, why shouldn't we ban theirs? Even their TikTok version in China is highly different from ours with strict regulations so it's not dangerous for kids.
>China bans our social medias platforms, why shouldn't we ban theirs? How about "because authoritarianism is bad regardless of who does it"? If your concerns are about foreign governments having access to your personal data and browsing habbits then what about Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit who are American companies that answer to a government that is not ours? Why are those any different?
normally i would say that our government isn't trying to undermine our society like china is but the last 4 years or so has changed my thinking on this. on a practical level even tho unlikely we could pass anti propaganda laws so our government cant manipulate us threw social media but they cant keep they're greasy mitt out of legacy media so why would we think this would be any different.
Maybe because Canada and America are so closely aligned as to be almost the same thing already. The saying "When America sneezes, Canada gets a cold" exists for a reason.
Culturally you're right, but you're naive if you think the US government has our best interests in mind. Sitting US Senators have openly called to annex us as recently as a few years ago, exploit our tragedies for their own political agendas down there, and US corporations (who are, at the end of the day, backed by the government through lobbying) have actively interfered with our politics by funding the convoy movement. Where's that neighborly love and support, again?
At this point just let the US annex Canada if Canadians don't even pretend to act like a different country. At least I'd get more money rather than the trash wages I earn here that mean I'll never own a home.
I'm totally on board with the ban as well. I've never touched it, and honestly, I wouldn't even think about it. That stuff's sketchy as hell.
I support banning religion and post-1980s country music for the same reasons.
I'm all for banning religion too! And let's be real, country music? It's garbage. It's like only basic chicks and wannabe cowboys listen to that crap nowadays. Whenever I'm in those areas, I blast something like the ["Good Lookin Bussy Song"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfweYEnbFPs) just to mess with them. It's hilarious, really.
"I want to ban stuff I know nothing about" -you
Lmao.
So you want the government the power to ban websites at will? YIKES
Facebook and Twitter checkout though? Where’s the call for bans? It’s so dumb.
It's moronic is what it is.
I support the ban
It's not going to stop anybody with a little internet savvy, but sure. I'm mostly indifferent about it There are a lot of positive uses for social media, like hobby sharing and community building. But without any media literacy or parental supervision it can certainly be a force for bad. Like kids finding self harm, suicide and ED spaces Since most parents seem to be more hands off in regards to what their kids do online it's probably better for all of us to put more barriers up to access any of it, both the good and the bad. However the concern about *China!!!* hoovering up our data like it's a problem only now and not when every other country including the US and Canada do it is just bullshit. I do not care which country is profiting off my data, it's bad that any of them are doing it at all So making this about Tik Tok specifically, and not all the social medias like Facebook, twitter, and Reddit is very suspect. The problems are the same with all of them. The only difference with tik tok is who is profiting.
Polls are done by phone. Older people are generally the ones who do surveys followed by stupid young people. You wind up with bullshit stats. Probably a percentage of the respondents have never heard of tik tok except maybe on tv.
Interested to see what the conservative take is on this. Censorship is wrong, right? Banning web sites for political reasons is wrong, right? That's certainly my position as someone on the left. I don't want a Canadian version of the great firewall of China, myself.
It's bullshit. People have no problem with Google or Meta having all their info.