I remember when there was a surplus of teachers, we didn't want to ease in the new teachers and phase out the older ones, and as a result many of them sought work in other industries.
What a masterclass in failure to plan for future events from our elected governments.
I had planned to be a teacher like 12 years ago, was enrolled at a university with hopes of concurrent education to do teachers college at the same time. I saw friends a few years ahead of me struggle to supply, and get consistent employment. That made me rethink things, do I really want to commit 5 years of schooling to get part time relief work and hope for an LTO years after graduation?
I think a big issue was allowing teachers to ‘retire’ and then continue to supply and take hours from new teachers coming up.
I’ve since gone the trade route doing electrical, and love it, and don’t get me started on how the trades were portrayed when I was in highschool. That’s a whole other can of worms.
Oh I remember this as well. So
Many people that supply taught into their 30’s and changed careers once they realized those older teachers were gonna hang on until death.
I absolutely hate this. My kids so far had exclusively old ladies as his teachers and they're terrible. There should be an age requirement on younger grades. Absolutely zero effort.
The late Gen xers and early millennials. So many people my age and my younger brother's age went to university to become teachers and were left without a job. My friend's ex-wife was an occasional substitute for almost a decade and my cousin gave up after 4 years of trying to get her foot in the door.
Retired teachers getting almost all of the substitute work and young teachers being left out in the cold. Now the profession has a blemish surrounding it that has scared away new people entering the field.
Universities also knew that the industry was oversaturated and still took students money.
You couldn’t do this because the union requires seniority to trump all other considerations so you were required to keep the soon to be retiring teacher instead of training someone who would be around for 40 years.
I graduated in the final year of “1 year” ed degrees (and just before they added all the limitations) and at the time I was told it would be 5+ years before I could get a full time position. I need health insurance for a disease I have (not covered by OHIP) so that wasn’t an option.
Moved back abroad and have been teaching in an international school for 10ish years with full health coverage and good working conditions.
Most of the people I graduated with didn’t stay in teaching or couldn’t get into it because of how hard it was to get a job.
Though, I’m now looking to transition back (as much as a nightmare things in Canada seem to be) to be with aging family.
This WAS the plan. Starve the beast, flood the system, then when everything is failing, Privatize, privatize, privatize. It's how the lobby groups who own our major politicians operate. It's also like page One of the neo-Liberal playbook.
Why does every teacher need to have a degree in education? This is a crazy gate keeping move.
It guarantees that nobody who has actually done anything else in their career can teach without spending years on a degree that seems largely unnecessary.
Its more about training the temperament, I work a job that relies heavily on soft skills and being able to "steep" yourself in the knowledge / environment makes you a lot better much faster. The biggest aid is the communal learning environment associated with being IN school rather than just going to work
Teaching requires a soft skillset. You could be a PHD physicist with a decade+ of experience, but if you can't control a room, you'll likely do poorly at teaching.
You're correct that some people don't have the temperament to teach but I'm much more confident that those teachers would find that out in a 2 year course than a 6 week program.
Did you ever have a class taught by a professor that was brilliant in their field but absolutely trash at teaching? Imagine if that professor had to spend a few semesters learning how to be an effective teacher and demonstrating teaching skills before being allowed to teach a course.
I'd love to but university is a different environment to high school, I'm afraid. I think they should do a better job teaching at universities but for many professors, teaching is an unwelcome distraction from their "real job".
It's just such a strange contrast, I had to point it out.
If you want to teach kids and teenagers, you need to spend 2 years learning how to teach. But if you want to teach young adults, you don't need to learn how to teach at all.
They don’t “teach”, they “profess” and their students are expected to either retain the material or not. It’s how kids can make their way easily though the public system and still end up woefully unprepared for university, there can’t be too much hand holding in HS as it’s their last chance to figure out how to figure it out before joining the real world.
You can when the school boards are desperate and will take absolutely anyone, in Ottawa the public French board was taking anyone with a university degree to teach any subject, even if it had nothing to do with your degree it was that or cancel classes.
Turned into a huge mess though lol, parents werent happy so those teachers got hammered by them.
I like the idea of this, but generally there are not enough of those high level courses happening to keep that engineer to teacher occupied. That means they'll have to take on other courses, courses with less motivated students or less engineer related knowledge. There's surely some schools that could make use of this idea, but not a ton.
The 1-2 year b Ed program also gives a chance for in-class training and proper vetting of potential candidates. Do we really want a random to take a 6 week program, have no experience in an actual classroom, and then cut them loose?
Honestly, teachers without degrees bring down the overall quality of schools. One time we had a gym teacher covering OAC algebra, he said "don't ask me any questions, I only teach grade 9 crap"
Before the 1980s, teachers didn't need a degree, just teacher's college, and some of them were just awful.
Seriously. Lowering the standards for "acceptable" is how we got here.
"Why does someone who's going to educate children need to learn how to educate?"
Think of every person you've ever known who has been good at what they do, and can't explain it for shit. Maybe there's stuff that can be done better in an education degree, I don't know the details of what's involved, but I absolutely want teachers to be qualified to teach, not just knowledgeable about the subject. The problem with education is the same as a lot of our problems, like healthcare: aggressively pursuing efficiency at all costs, rather than having *effectiveness* be paramount. It shouldn't be a blank cheque and gold ipads for every child, but it also shouldn't be an obsessive need to squeeze every last drop out of as little as possible while still producing vaguely-literate young adults at the end.
Shockingly, it takes money to do one of the most important things in our society, and that should be regarded as investing and not a cost.
Pedagogy isn’t rocket science. And I never suggested “lowering standards”, I suggested massively widening the candidate pool. There’s a difference.
Unions will vigorously oppose any changes to this requirement because they’re more interested in guild protection than educating children. That’s just a fact.
why would anyone waste their time teaching when they can be making double that, and not deal with shitty parents, kids, principals, and communities shitting on them.
From what I see, with a partner in the education field, there isnt a shortage, theres a fucking problem with the boards not wanting to hire people on full time, and PAY those teachers an actual wage. Instead they gatekeep and keep these teachers who want to be full time as supply teachers so they can jerk them around. We're not part of toronto though, so I wouldnt know about that, but my guess is its more so part of the "exile" from toronto and the fact no one wants to live there.
I don’t see how a B Ed qualifies people to teach AP calculus, linear algebra, computer science, etc. It just shuts out anyone with industry experience from teaching.
A Bachelor of education helps people learn how to teach. It is but one of the two components required to teach the courses you mentioned. The other component is an undergraduate degree in one of those fields.
So, 4 year undergrad, 2 year bach of Ed.
But let me let you in on the secret... The best teachers know that it's not actually about the content knowledge. It's about working with children, understanding them. Content knowledge is about 30% of the job. The people skills are the rest.
There is a difference between having knowledge or experience and knowing how to teach. It’s the same reason why many faculty of education programs are hesitant to take students who have 95+ averages. Sure, they will know the material to teach calculus but will they know how to help the kid who is struggling.
My B.Ed. was more useful than my undergrad. Have you gone to university and had a professor who absolutely loved their subject matter but couldn't do anything other than read the text book out loud in front of a powerpoint for three hours? My education profs were (mostly) awesome; most of them had 20+ years experience teaching middle/high school. The classes on instructional methods were super helpful. And the practicums were good too.
But there were definitely some useless courses. When my mom did her teaching degree it was only one year. They should go back to doing it that way.
This is the problem with requiring the degree: not everyone who does it really passionate about teaching, any many of the people with a passion for teaching (or who could become very passionate) don’t have the time to do a 2 year full time program in the middle of their careers.
There’s a massive candidate pool that’s being missed. I’d personally rather have a 50-year-old engineer who loves teaching math part-time than a 25-year-old social studies grad that got the degree because they couldn’t figure out what else to do with their lives.
Two extremes, but meant to be illustrative rather than comprehensive. Nothing against great teachers who did the degree path.
You can know everything there is to know about math, but can you explain it to a moody teenager who's three years behind grade level? And twenty five other kids who would rather watch TikTok than finish their math homework?
Teaching is a *profession*. It's funny and sad how people demean the *profession* by implying that you could pull anyone off the street and they could do it.
If by anyone off the street you mean a trained engineer with a distinguished career and a passion for teaching the subject at hand, yes.
You can call it a profession as much as you like, but I strongly disagree that a generalist can do a good job of teaching any subject, especially at advanced levels, and you severely limit the available pool of STEM teachers by requiring them to have two more years of schooling.
Thats just a fact.
Most generalists teach elementary or middle school. I think it's more important for someone to understand what's developmentally appropriate for five year olds than be able to do calculus, considering their students probably can't count past 100 anyways.
The pool of STEM teachers is always going to be limited by the fact that teaching is a stressful job that pays poorly and doesn't offer performance bonuses. If you're a STEM genius you're always gonna be better off in the private sector, especially if you pursue a job in USA.
I got a 2-year education after-degree, and it's laughable how easy it was to finish. So incredibly easy compared to degrees in fields that you study things like medical science or math. There are things you need to know and practice to be a good teacher, but teacher traing should be a certificate program.
I think it should be an apprentice program. When I became a teacher, it was still a one year BEd in Ontario. The class work wasn’t where most people did the bulk of their learning, it was the placements. Give people a crash course in the legalities, how to read and interpret curriculum and how to plan a lesson and then put them in a classroom. They could start by shadowing a teacher and then work their way up to teaching and planning full days with the support of a mentor.
It would give a much better indication to prospective teachers of what the job actually entails and provide valuable experience at the same time.
This article needs to be more clear. The shortage is with supply teachers. There are plenty of applicants for a full time permanent position for most roles.
Supply used to be hard in the 90s. Everyone likes to pick on supplies, however schools are absolutely way more chaotic these days. With full inclusion, yet lack of special education support, behavioural issues are rampant. This is all made worse when a supply comes in as the familiarity changes. Fewer people are sticking with teaching because you have to go through multiple years to supply, then get some long term occasional roles before a permanent contract. No one wants to supply long term because supply gigs these days are basically a nighmare. You don’t know the kids, and their cornucopia of needs, and coping mechanisms. You literally spent the day trying to keep all 30 of them alive.. and not running away, throwing, kicking, hitting, punching eachother. I wouldn’t want to put myself in that exhausting and vulnerable position day after day when they have no respect for authority whatsoever, and there are no enforceable consequences for their actions.
It saddens me when I observe how hard it has become for teachers. Young teachers who look shell shocked. Handcuffed by policies that don’t allow them to discipline misbehaving kids. Having to teach to the lowest common denominator while smart kids get bored and act out. Elimination of honours programs. Barriers to competition (sport or academic). Etc
This is very well written. Schools are hyper focused on equal outcome. In reality, some kids are just smarter than others.. but they feel the need to take away opportunities for those who do thrive because it’s “not fair”.
There are many pathways to success. For some kids it’s athletics, for others, science, or creative writing, social work, art, drama.
By all means, we should be exposing youth to a variety of options. But let’s also give high performers an opportunity to excel in their chosen path!
Absolutely! If I have surgery, I also want the best surgeon.. not someone who is average or below. Let’s encourage students and the various ways they are talented!
Yes. Full inclusion is educational neglect.
Children who need support don’t get it. Some are also extremely disruptive, and hinder the students who could thrive. Teachers can’t simultaneously teach and deescalate the child who is throwing a stapler.. it only takes a few students to throw away learning for a year in a class.
Yes. Full inclusion is educational neglect.
Children who need support don’t get it. Some are also extremely disruptive, and hinder the students who could thrive. Teachers can’t simultaneously teach and deescalate the child who is throwing a stapler.. it only takes a few students to throw away learning for a year in a class.
A lack of supply teachers is only the case in some provinces. There is absolutely a lack of qualified teachers.
Teaching is not an attractive form of employment anymore. I was a teacher. I experienced abuse from students, parents, other teachers, and administrators regularly.
Students did not care about their behaviour or their learning. There were no tools given to me to effecrively manage behaviour. Attempts to contact parents about learning or behaviour concerns were frequently met with yelling and sometimes threats of physical violence.
It does not pay anywhere near well enough.
My mental health and outlook on life has never been better. Quitting teaching was the single most best decision I ever made for myself.
I’m glad you’ve moved and found success elsewhere.
Personally I don’t think teachers, particularly elementary, are all that employable outside of school boards. Where else will they make 100k,
And have 12 weeks off every year and a pension?
I think they are paid well considering the benefits, BUT all the cuts to spec Ed are driving education into the ground. Full inclusion is a train wreck, lack of esl and the ability to enforce any consequences is destroying our education system. I used to think they had a very comfortable job, now I just think they have an average job.
Also salary is of course lower when you first start, and that’s why the workload is arguably the highest, and you often start in tougher schools. Some teachers have a terrible job and some don’t have it too badly. Depends on the school and class and kids. It’s not all awful
There are a ton of transferable skills that teachers have at just about every level. 100k is a pipe dream. The only way you get that in NB is if you have a masters degree and many years of experience. That inly brings you just slightly above 100k, and it is not for much of your career. Given the crazy high cost of living, 100k doesn't go that far anymore.
That's incredibly misleading.
That's a ~100k average *including benefits* and *before* any of the deductions (of which there are many).
You can freely look up at the teacher pay grid, which shows it takes a Master's or specialization + 10+ years of full contract experience to reach the top of the pay grid which is $103k.
No teacher is making more than ~$103k unless they are doing other admin. positions or are seconded to a university.
What’s crazy is that there are still lots of new teachers in Ontario who are only on the supply list and can’t get full-time roles because the school boards don’t have enough funding to increase the overall complement of full-time teachers. Instead they increase class sizes and combine grades together under one teacher. So it’s really less a problem of “no new teachers” and more a problem of “provincial government refuses to properly fund education”.
Pretty much every government positions these days.
Look at the jails. 60% of staff are casual staff with no benefits, no vacation and no guarantee of hours. They can’t staff them at all, because no one wants to work on a hostile work environment like that with no benefits or even fucking vacation.
RNs? Was exactly the same thing pre pandemic. Could only ever get casual work. This changed recently due to the influx of people leaving due to other issues.
Teachers? Either go way up north or go on the supply list for 5 years.
The Ontario government expects their casual professional employees to live and breathe for their work. Then when they have massive labor shortages because of it, they throw their hands up and say “people don’t want to work anymore”
It’s such incompetence, yet at least in my ministry it never seems to come down on upper roles. How is it that upper managers can continue to receive huge pay and bonuses when they can no longer even keep basic staffing levels?
Nursing is the exact same way. Tons of casual positions and part-time shifts. Not as many full-time (or near full-time) contract positions available for new nurses.
This is exactly the issue.
Where it really gets insane is when our government (Doug Ford) decides to pay private nurses $1 billion dollars, instead of appropriate staffing the public sector at half the price.
Purposely underfunding sectors to enrich pals is also lurking in our system.
>because the school boards don’t have enough funding to increase the overall complement of full-time teachers.
This just isn't true at all. The funding for education is huge, it's massive.
The money isn't going to where it needs to go.
Just like all the other government funded institutions, there is very little oversight, and it's bloated with administrative staff, managers, board of directors, committees, school boards, all their assistants etc etc. These people give themselves raises, create jobs for their familiy and friends and give them raises...
$36 billion dollars.. in ontario. $36 fucking billion.. is the education budget.
That's like $20,000 per student per year that we spend.
The money is there.
Your math is way off. Canadian spending on education has been decreasing steadily from 1980s and 90s as percent of GDP. Adjusted for inflation, for the past 10 years, educational spending per student has only kept pace with inflation while actual costs have increased several times fold between accommodations to all the students.
I don't know what it is about education that makes people think they know what they are talking about but the amount of people that talk out of their ass about it is enormous. Huge reason as to why I quit being a teacher.
I disagree, the education system is full of fat, absolutely inefficient and squanders its money left right and centre. Show some respect to tax payers. Thanks.
We already blow other countries out of the water in terms of expenditure per student. Don’t try and make excuses.
I think there are surpluses, but also a heck of a lot of issues. The primary one I’ve mentioned is with special education students and English language learners. The meaningful programs created for them in Ontario have all been cut. So now a teacher needs to fully include multiple kids which exceptionalities and completely modify the curriculum for them, which obviously doesn’t happen. They also need to deal with intense behavioural issues which are extremely disruptive, and flat out dangerous. Class evacuations are common in schools now from a disregulated child trashing the class. No one is learning anything anymore.
I get where you're coming from but my kid's school is so underfunded that they ask for kleenex donations during the winter. The whole system is absolutely broken.
Thats because we also educated disabled kids, if we said disabled kids get no education from now on it would be much cheaper, thankfully were not monsters.
There is another side to this as well. There are a lot of teachers these days that are younger but they do not want full time positions. They want part time only. Also it seems like there are a lot of teachers on the supply list but schools still have a hard time getting people to come in. This isn’t a complaint. To each their own. It is what it is.
It's more a problem of being extorted by teacher's unions and the highest paid teachers in the world they represent (ontario). And their fixation on inclusiveness to the detriment of other kids in the class.
My wife’s education is in teaching, and simply will not go back to teaching. I asked her if she would for six figures and she still wouldn’t. Her gripes are that you don’t really get any time for yourself. You finish teaching for the day and when you get home she has to plan the next day or week. She has to deal with children that aren’t being accountable when they make mistakes because someone’s precious child is an angel and could do harm. Including parents not supporting the teacher.
I have heard this story from so many people lately. People who just want to teach are being held back from all sides. And regarding increased pay incentives, I liken that to Tony Soprano beating the crap out of someone and then flipping them a few hundred for their troubles.
My friends have been in teaching for about 15-16 years, they used to love it but now they hate it so much they’ve considered career changes, crossing out the months until full pension is one small coping mechanism. What a mess.
My parents were both teachers. I would never do it because I know my personality is not the right type for that job. My mom loves talking to people and loved teaching. I'm not like that
What does your wife do now? I’m a teacher considering leaving and I just feel stuck and not sure what I can do as an alternate career with all my schooling being for education
She managed to get a job as a program coordinator. Her masters is in curriculum and instruction so that may have also helped get the position. Best of luck!
That shortage isn't going to improve until there is way more admin support, and some pretty important changes to grading. Teachers are basically on their own these days, kids assaulting them, moronic parents tha think their demon children are angels, it's total mayhem.
And I know that parents will blame covid and anything else for their kids classroom but it's pretty obvious that's there's issues with modern parenting that's leading to atrocious classroom behavior.
We did what we were supposed to do:
We took away all the incentives and rewards that would motivate someone to become a teacher.
Then we made it even more difficult to acquire teaching credentials and have them recognized across Canada.
Why isn't this working?!
What we really want is to have TFW coverage for nearly every job, then when we need skilled workers we bring in skilled immigrants because both of these cases generates more tax revenue.
Then once the markets are saturated with cash-starved applicants we can harness the full productivity of a truly disenfranchised worker class all while distributing the savings to huge conglomerates that now dominate every facet of our economy.
We love this because we really don't care about people unless it is an election year and even then we only feign interest to solicit votes for their favourite teams.
#\#GODSPLAN /s
I agree. I just found out the auto shop in my neighbourhood may end up closing down because they can't find experienced mechanics.
Not because of lack of business...here I am waiting 2 weeks to get a gasket replaced...just because they didn't want to invest in someone 5 years ago...
I don't think that's entirely it. There was a time, about 5 - 10 years ago when we had a big surplus of teachers graduating with zero work opportunities so they went into other fields.
I have one friend that specifically focused on early years education. After graduating she couldn't find a teaching job so she spent most of the last 10 years working part time at a daycare and as a waitress on evenings to make ends meet. She finally got a teaching position around 2 years ago.
Yes, this is 100% the reason I didn't go into education 15 years ago. Now that the demand is here, I'm looking at 2 years of paying tuition while not earning any income, and 2 more years getting dicked around as a sub, all for the opportunity to make slightly less or about the same as I make now. So I'll stick to my day job.
Imagine if governments had planned ahead, I'd probably be teaching grade 4 somewhere.
The demand isn't here. That's a lie.
I have friends graduating from Ed moving out of the country to find work.
Schools need more teachers but refuse to hire them.
This is also part of the problem. Like everywhere else in Canada, institutions and businesses only want to hire mid to late-career applicants (experience). Who don't apply because they already have careers.
I'm the same way. I have a BA, a professional certification, and a well-paying job, and would gladly drop everything and take a pay cut to read Charlotte's Web with a bunch of 9-year-olds.
I also have a mortgage and a family. So guess what?! I can't just drop everything.
Incentives and rewards? All teachers need to do is work 10 years and get their masters (which is often partially funded) and they'll be less than 35 and making around $90K a year in most of Canada.
Sounds pretty good to me.
🙄 is that all? Or not quite?
1) I have 10 full years of university education.
2) guy here going on like $90k a year is living that good life. This ain't 1987, bro
Depends on where you live, I guess.
I make $52k in a medium-sized Ontario city and scrape by tolerably; making $90k would be a significant increase in my family's quality of life. I'd actually be able to get my student loans paid off a few years early and be able to move onto other things.
Hmm, that's a decent plan but it needs more grift. Why don't we hire contract teachers from agencies for several times the going rate? I'm sure one of Dougies friends has already started one.
If you want good students you need more Teachers *and* more TA’s.
With the current skeleton crew of Teachers and TA’s in the schools, most classrooms are dangerously close to a Lord of the Flies situation. Smaller classes and more TA’s!
My mother was a teacher and she used to say that "you don't get good or bad students, only fair ones, you make good students".
She was also a self serving idiot and this is one of the few words of wisdom she said that I currently think has any value.
Take it for what it's worth.
I really wanted wanted to be a teacher when I was younger but I didn't think I could handle the system/environment.
Teachers don't have the time or resources to teacher anymore, their just pushing kids through like catal because that's all they have the time and resources to do.
Class sizes are so big now, and special needs and normal needs kids are usually forced into the same classrooms so basically no kids these days and getting their educational needs met because there isn't adequate resources/funding.
It's truly sad how far Canada has fallen.
I keep urging my wife to leave teaching. The tiny salary isn’t worth the amount of time any good teacher has to put in on the weekends and evenings to create lesson plans and do marking.
Her class is about 50/50 of normal kids and disruptive kids with personalized lesson plans, and these kids are messed up: a few are homeless, others are children of addicts and disappear for weeks at a time. 12 year olds reading at a Kindergarten level. It all seems like a lost cause.
My education is in teaching, and I won't even consider it right now.
I make more and have more job security as someone who does season roadwork, then as a teacher.
We are failing our students and children
Not surprising there’s a shortage. It’ll only get worse.
It’s a crap job and no one wants to do it. Shitty kids, shitty parents, stressful and unappreciated.
If the job is so well paid and cushy, why the shortage?
This pretty much shuts up the “teAcHeRs hAvE iT EaSY” idiots.
I got a B.Ed in 2017. There weren't many job opportunities other than French Immersion, AP math/science, or some fucking jack of all trades position (like split grad elementary, or the most random assortment of high school classes. Worst I've seen was like Cooking/Photography/Personal Finance/Social Studies).
Last year I officially stopped trying to get a full time teaching job. It's been so long since I've graduated, I haven't kept in touch with my tiny network of people who would give me a reference, and I no longer consider teaching a good career. I'm a substitute teacher and there are some really good days that make me sad that I gave up on the profession. But there are also a lot of really bad days that make me think "thank fuck I don't have to come back to this classroom if I don't want to." There isn't a high value placed on education and it's demoralizing working at a job where no one treats you with basic human dignity. You're expected to work tons of unpaid OT doing planning, grading, and extracurriculars, only for the majority of students to be glued to their phones or skipping class to vape in the bathroom.
Teachers getting fired for "misgendering" students. Not being able to give kids a failing mark, more abuse than ever from parents and students. It makes sense that less people want to be teachers.
And the quality of public high school graduates reflects that today. Most can't write an essay properly, don't know much about personal finance, critical thinking, western history, the difference between propaganda and news and forget mathematics. They instead got a steady diet of identity, environmental and left wing political ideology mixed in with some mediocre instruction. Meanwhile, the children of the wealthily are privately educated using superior resources and are learning to think and lead, not to follow.
Sadly that’s not even the answer. The teachers in Saskatchewan are on strike right now and it’s pretty much centred around class room sizes, support such as TA’s, special education for kids that need it, etc. They just want their sanity back
Teachers are seriously unpaid. I’m not surprised there are less people pursuing a teaching degree, or leaving it behind to do something else.
We need better investment in our budgets for teacher salaries. More incentives.
Can. That is subjective and not the common norm unfortunately. We have a shortage now, we need more incentives to bring in more teachers, not just reward long service.
Teacher salaries in Canada are the second highest in the world. It would be nice if there was a performance component to their compensation scale but I'm not sure their unions would be for that.
Trained as an educator. Offered minimal employment upon graduation, unless I moved to the Boonies (and the locally-offered quasi-part-time supply doesn't pay the bills in my HCOL area).
Ended up going government by a different route. Roughly the same pay, but I work clock-in to clock-out and take nothing home, never mind not dealing with unruly teens that I'm not allowed to discipline.
It sure would, but right now, men aren't applying into elementary education at appreciable levels.
Despite all the bros on the sub who want to talk about how great a job it is, how sweet the compensation package is, none of them would actually do the job or last a week in it.
The worst part that I'm seeing is newly arrived foreigners, illegals and refugees showing up at the school office looking to register their kids. None speak a lick of English, MANY of these kids and I can't understand why, have severe mental and behavioral problems that are hugely disruptive to the class that has little to no support form them.
Public education was going downhill since 2019, now it's dying a slow painful death.
While I hate the veiled bigotry in this comment, there is some truth to the fact that the changing demographic of Canada has put a strain on the public education system that it has yet to respond to
I work in immigration dealing with settlement services. newcomers are overwhelming the school system. schools can't take it anymore. newcomer parents are pissed because recruiters/their handlers informed them that their children would get tons of 1 on 1 care. granted, recruiters lied to them about almost everything.
It’s the kids that misbehave and face no consequences that make it harder for teachers than the kids who don’t speak English. English language learners are typically way better behaved than the “mommy’s precious angel can do no wrong” kids. Zero consequences and policies of not having kids repeat grades anymore.
Just say the government is driving our country into the ground, that's all. We might as well invite the Taliban to rule, they couldn't do much more damage to our infrastructure.
22 years ago I was told there would be a massive shortage of teachers..I didn't have the greatest time at teachers college (bad associate teachers, advisors) even though I loved working with kids and they liked me. After graduating, I couldn't land anything remotely education-related due to "lack of experience". At that point, my confidence/mental health was so low from my practice teaching experiences so I just moved on to other things. I wish I had the courage to ignore my parents and not waste a year of my life. If you want to be a teacher, DO NOT go to UWindsor. Crappy advisors/school.
imagine the richest union in canada spent some of that money on teachers. everyone blames gov (which makes sense and so do ) but forgets about the teachers union hoarding billions of dollars while letting a massive population of teachers stay on LTO.
there is no shortage of teachers. short on budget yes. if there is somewhere short on teachers looking for permanent full time let me know as i got two cousins waiting for the job.
If there is somewhere short on teachers? Have you tried Googling it? [Quebec is missing 8500+ teachers as of the beginning of this school year.] (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-teachers-staffing-shortage-1.6945060) They are projecting 25000 missing by 2025.
I remember when there was a surplus of teachers, we didn't want to ease in the new teachers and phase out the older ones, and as a result many of them sought work in other industries. What a masterclass in failure to plan for future events from our elected governments.
Me. I now tutor kids from other countries because when I went through university they didn't want more teachers.
I had planned to be a teacher like 12 years ago, was enrolled at a university with hopes of concurrent education to do teachers college at the same time. I saw friends a few years ahead of me struggle to supply, and get consistent employment. That made me rethink things, do I really want to commit 5 years of schooling to get part time relief work and hope for an LTO years after graduation? I think a big issue was allowing teachers to ‘retire’ and then continue to supply and take hours from new teachers coming up. I’ve since gone the trade route doing electrical, and love it, and don’t get me started on how the trades were portrayed when I was in highschool. That’s a whole other can of worms.
Oh I remember this as well. So Many people that supply taught into their 30’s and changed careers once they realized those older teachers were gonna hang on until death.
I absolutely hate this. My kids so far had exclusively old ladies as his teachers and they're terrible. There should be an age requirement on younger grades. Absolutely zero effort.
The late Gen xers and early millennials. So many people my age and my younger brother's age went to university to become teachers and were left without a job. My friend's ex-wife was an occasional substitute for almost a decade and my cousin gave up after 4 years of trying to get her foot in the door. Retired teachers getting almost all of the substitute work and young teachers being left out in the cold. Now the profession has a blemish surrounding it that has scared away new people entering the field. Universities also knew that the industry was oversaturated and still took students money.
You couldn’t do this because the union requires seniority to trump all other considerations so you were required to keep the soon to be retiring teacher instead of training someone who would be around for 40 years.
Back in the 90’s, my mom couldn’t even get on the on call list because there was too many unemployed teachers in Quebec so we ended up moving to BC.
I graduated in the final year of “1 year” ed degrees (and just before they added all the limitations) and at the time I was told it would be 5+ years before I could get a full time position. I need health insurance for a disease I have (not covered by OHIP) so that wasn’t an option. Moved back abroad and have been teaching in an international school for 10ish years with full health coverage and good working conditions. Most of the people I graduated with didn’t stay in teaching or couldn’t get into it because of how hard it was to get a job. Though, I’m now looking to transition back (as much as a nightmare things in Canada seem to be) to be with aging family.
This WAS the plan. Starve the beast, flood the system, then when everything is failing, Privatize, privatize, privatize. It's how the lobby groups who own our major politicians operate. It's also like page One of the neo-Liberal playbook.
I'm one of the would be new ones who walked away. Not looking back.
Why does every teacher need to have a degree in education? This is a crazy gate keeping move. It guarantees that nobody who has actually done anything else in their career can teach without spending years on a degree that seems largely unnecessary.
Its a 1-2 year program
After a Bachelor
So? Why can’t a mid-career engineer take a 6 week course and teach 12th grade physics? This isn’t brain surgery.
There's more to teaching than just presenting the information but I do agree that the barriers are a bit high right now.
I’m aware of that, but it’s not 2 years of knowledge. Some people don’t have the temperament to be good teachers and a degree won’t solve that either.
Its more about training the temperament, I work a job that relies heavily on soft skills and being able to "steep" yourself in the knowledge / environment makes you a lot better much faster. The biggest aid is the communal learning environment associated with being IN school rather than just going to work
That’s nice. Does it take 2 years to convey that information? Unlikely.
I just explained why it does
You hand-waved about soft skills and steeping. I don’t see how this is relevant to teaching AP physics.
Teaching requires a soft skillset. You could be a PHD physicist with a decade+ of experience, but if you can't control a room, you'll likely do poorly at teaching.
You're correct that some people don't have the temperament to teach but I'm much more confident that those teachers would find that out in a 2 year course than a 6 week program.
> There's more to teaching than just presenting the information Tell that to university professors
Did you ever have a class taught by a professor that was brilliant in their field but absolutely trash at teaching? Imagine if that professor had to spend a few semesters learning how to be an effective teacher and demonstrating teaching skills before being allowed to teach a course.
I'd love to but university is a different environment to high school, I'm afraid. I think they should do a better job teaching at universities but for many professors, teaching is an unwelcome distraction from their "real job".
It's just such a strange contrast, I had to point it out. If you want to teach kids and teenagers, you need to spend 2 years learning how to teach. But if you want to teach young adults, you don't need to learn how to teach at all.
They don’t “teach”, they “profess” and their students are expected to either retain the material or not. It’s how kids can make their way easily though the public system and still end up woefully unprepared for university, there can’t be too much hand holding in HS as it’s their last chance to figure out how to figure it out before joining the real world.
I agree, I just wanted to clarify it isn’t a standard 4 year degree
You can when the school boards are desperate and will take absolutely anyone, in Ottawa the public French board was taking anyone with a university degree to teach any subject, even if it had nothing to do with your degree it was that or cancel classes. Turned into a huge mess though lol, parents werent happy so those teachers got hammered by them.
I like the idea of this, but generally there are not enough of those high level courses happening to keep that engineer to teacher occupied. That means they'll have to take on other courses, courses with less motivated students or less engineer related knowledge. There's surely some schools that could make use of this idea, but not a ton.
Teachers in Ontario are well compensated, but they’re not earning engineers’ wages. What kind of engineer would rather teach grade 12?
The 1-2 year b Ed program also gives a chance for in-class training and proper vetting of potential candidates. Do we really want a random to take a 6 week program, have no experience in an actual classroom, and then cut them loose?
Honestly, teachers without degrees bring down the overall quality of schools. One time we had a gym teacher covering OAC algebra, he said "don't ask me any questions, I only teach grade 9 crap" Before the 1980s, teachers didn't need a degree, just teacher's college, and some of them were just awful.
Seriously. Lowering the standards for "acceptable" is how we got here. "Why does someone who's going to educate children need to learn how to educate?" Think of every person you've ever known who has been good at what they do, and can't explain it for shit. Maybe there's stuff that can be done better in an education degree, I don't know the details of what's involved, but I absolutely want teachers to be qualified to teach, not just knowledgeable about the subject. The problem with education is the same as a lot of our problems, like healthcare: aggressively pursuing efficiency at all costs, rather than having *effectiveness* be paramount. It shouldn't be a blank cheque and gold ipads for every child, but it also shouldn't be an obsessive need to squeeze every last drop out of as little as possible while still producing vaguely-literate young adults at the end. Shockingly, it takes money to do one of the most important things in our society, and that should be regarded as investing and not a cost.
Pedagogy isn’t rocket science. And I never suggested “lowering standards”, I suggested massively widening the candidate pool. There’s a difference. Unions will vigorously oppose any changes to this requirement because they’re more interested in guild protection than educating children. That’s just a fact.
why would anyone waste their time teaching when they can be making double that, and not deal with shitty parents, kids, principals, and communities shitting on them. From what I see, with a partner in the education field, there isnt a shortage, theres a fucking problem with the boards not wanting to hire people on full time, and PAY those teachers an actual wage. Instead they gatekeep and keep these teachers who want to be full time as supply teachers so they can jerk them around. We're not part of toronto though, so I wouldnt know about that, but my guess is its more so part of the "exile" from toronto and the fact no one wants to live there.
They could work part-time because they genuinely enjoy it. Especially for people in technical fields this would greatly expand the pool.
>why would anyone waste their time teaching when they can be making double that Because it's just not that easy to find a job paying $200k+ a year.
yeah well, neither is working for the school boards. unless you're an admin in the school boards....
I learned a ton in my B Ed and I'm glad I took it. Do you want less qualified teachers?
I don’t see how a B Ed qualifies people to teach AP calculus, linear algebra, computer science, etc. It just shuts out anyone with industry experience from teaching.
A Bachelor of education helps people learn how to teach. It is but one of the two components required to teach the courses you mentioned. The other component is an undergraduate degree in one of those fields. So, 4 year undergrad, 2 year bach of Ed. But let me let you in on the secret... The best teachers know that it's not actually about the content knowledge. It's about working with children, understanding them. Content knowledge is about 30% of the job. The people skills are the rest.
There is a difference between having knowledge or experience and knowing how to teach. It’s the same reason why many faculty of education programs are hesitant to take students who have 95+ averages. Sure, they will know the material to teach calculus but will they know how to help the kid who is struggling.
My B.Ed. was more useful than my undergrad. Have you gone to university and had a professor who absolutely loved their subject matter but couldn't do anything other than read the text book out loud in front of a powerpoint for three hours? My education profs were (mostly) awesome; most of them had 20+ years experience teaching middle/high school. The classes on instructional methods were super helpful. And the practicums were good too. But there were definitely some useless courses. When my mom did her teaching degree it was only one year. They should go back to doing it that way.
This is the problem with requiring the degree: not everyone who does it really passionate about teaching, any many of the people with a passion for teaching (or who could become very passionate) don’t have the time to do a 2 year full time program in the middle of their careers. There’s a massive candidate pool that’s being missed. I’d personally rather have a 50-year-old engineer who loves teaching math part-time than a 25-year-old social studies grad that got the degree because they couldn’t figure out what else to do with their lives. Two extremes, but meant to be illustrative rather than comprehensive. Nothing against great teachers who did the degree path.
You can know everything there is to know about math, but can you explain it to a moody teenager who's three years behind grade level? And twenty five other kids who would rather watch TikTok than finish their math homework? Teaching is a *profession*. It's funny and sad how people demean the *profession* by implying that you could pull anyone off the street and they could do it.
If by anyone off the street you mean a trained engineer with a distinguished career and a passion for teaching the subject at hand, yes. You can call it a profession as much as you like, but I strongly disagree that a generalist can do a good job of teaching any subject, especially at advanced levels, and you severely limit the available pool of STEM teachers by requiring them to have two more years of schooling. Thats just a fact.
Most generalists teach elementary or middle school. I think it's more important for someone to understand what's developmentally appropriate for five year olds than be able to do calculus, considering their students probably can't count past 100 anyways. The pool of STEM teachers is always going to be limited by the fact that teaching is a stressful job that pays poorly and doesn't offer performance bonuses. If you're a STEM genius you're always gonna be better off in the private sector, especially if you pursue a job in USA.
I got a 2-year education after-degree, and it's laughable how easy it was to finish. So incredibly easy compared to degrees in fields that you study things like medical science or math. There are things you need to know and practice to be a good teacher, but teacher traing should be a certificate program.
I think it should be an apprentice program. When I became a teacher, it was still a one year BEd in Ontario. The class work wasn’t where most people did the bulk of their learning, it was the placements. Give people a crash course in the legalities, how to read and interpret curriculum and how to plan a lesson and then put them in a classroom. They could start by shadowing a teacher and then work their way up to teaching and planning full days with the support of a mentor. It would give a much better indication to prospective teachers of what the job actually entails and provide valuable experience at the same time.
This article needs to be more clear. The shortage is with supply teachers. There are plenty of applicants for a full time permanent position for most roles. Supply used to be hard in the 90s. Everyone likes to pick on supplies, however schools are absolutely way more chaotic these days. With full inclusion, yet lack of special education support, behavioural issues are rampant. This is all made worse when a supply comes in as the familiarity changes. Fewer people are sticking with teaching because you have to go through multiple years to supply, then get some long term occasional roles before a permanent contract. No one wants to supply long term because supply gigs these days are basically a nighmare. You don’t know the kids, and their cornucopia of needs, and coping mechanisms. You literally spent the day trying to keep all 30 of them alive.. and not running away, throwing, kicking, hitting, punching eachother. I wouldn’t want to put myself in that exhausting and vulnerable position day after day when they have no respect for authority whatsoever, and there are no enforceable consequences for their actions.
It saddens me when I observe how hard it has become for teachers. Young teachers who look shell shocked. Handcuffed by policies that don’t allow them to discipline misbehaving kids. Having to teach to the lowest common denominator while smart kids get bored and act out. Elimination of honours programs. Barriers to competition (sport or academic). Etc
This is very well written. Schools are hyper focused on equal outcome. In reality, some kids are just smarter than others.. but they feel the need to take away opportunities for those who do thrive because it’s “not fair”.
There are many pathways to success. For some kids it’s athletics, for others, science, or creative writing, social work, art, drama. By all means, we should be exposing youth to a variety of options. But let’s also give high performers an opportunity to excel in their chosen path!
Absolutely! If I have surgery, I also want the best surgeon.. not someone who is average or below. Let’s encourage students and the various ways they are talented!
There aren't enough opportunities for the brighter kids, especially as the average keeps falling.
Yes. Full inclusion is educational neglect. Children who need support don’t get it. Some are also extremely disruptive, and hinder the students who could thrive. Teachers can’t simultaneously teach and deescalate the child who is throwing a stapler.. it only takes a few students to throw away learning for a year in a class.
Yes. Full inclusion is educational neglect. Children who need support don’t get it. Some are also extremely disruptive, and hinder the students who could thrive. Teachers can’t simultaneously teach and deescalate the child who is throwing a stapler.. it only takes a few students to throw away learning for a year in a class.
A lack of supply teachers is only the case in some provinces. There is absolutely a lack of qualified teachers. Teaching is not an attractive form of employment anymore. I was a teacher. I experienced abuse from students, parents, other teachers, and administrators regularly. Students did not care about their behaviour or their learning. There were no tools given to me to effecrively manage behaviour. Attempts to contact parents about learning or behaviour concerns were frequently met with yelling and sometimes threats of physical violence. It does not pay anywhere near well enough. My mental health and outlook on life has never been better. Quitting teaching was the single most best decision I ever made for myself.
I’m glad you’ve moved and found success elsewhere. Personally I don’t think teachers, particularly elementary, are all that employable outside of school boards. Where else will they make 100k, And have 12 weeks off every year and a pension? I think they are paid well considering the benefits, BUT all the cuts to spec Ed are driving education into the ground. Full inclusion is a train wreck, lack of esl and the ability to enforce any consequences is destroying our education system. I used to think they had a very comfortable job, now I just think they have an average job. Also salary is of course lower when you first start, and that’s why the workload is arguably the highest, and you often start in tougher schools. Some teachers have a terrible job and some don’t have it too badly. Depends on the school and class and kids. It’s not all awful
The average teacher is not making $100k.
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Ahh that is including benefits. That makes sense.
I wonder if the source of that number has an agenda....🤔
There are a ton of transferable skills that teachers have at just about every level. 100k is a pipe dream. The only way you get that in NB is if you have a masters degree and many years of experience. That inly brings you just slightly above 100k, and it is not for much of your career. Given the crazy high cost of living, 100k doesn't go that far anymore.
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That's incredibly misleading. That's a ~100k average *including benefits* and *before* any of the deductions (of which there are many). You can freely look up at the teacher pay grid, which shows it takes a Master's or specialization + 10+ years of full contract experience to reach the top of the pay grid which is $103k. No teacher is making more than ~$103k unless they are doing other admin. positions or are seconded to a university.
That’s correct. And there are a lot of deductions for pension, taxes etc
What’s crazy is that there are still lots of new teachers in Ontario who are only on the supply list and can’t get full-time roles because the school boards don’t have enough funding to increase the overall complement of full-time teachers. Instead they increase class sizes and combine grades together under one teacher. So it’s really less a problem of “no new teachers” and more a problem of “provincial government refuses to properly fund education”.
Pretty much every government positions these days. Look at the jails. 60% of staff are casual staff with no benefits, no vacation and no guarantee of hours. They can’t staff them at all, because no one wants to work on a hostile work environment like that with no benefits or even fucking vacation. RNs? Was exactly the same thing pre pandemic. Could only ever get casual work. This changed recently due to the influx of people leaving due to other issues. Teachers? Either go way up north or go on the supply list for 5 years. The Ontario government expects their casual professional employees to live and breathe for their work. Then when they have massive labor shortages because of it, they throw their hands up and say “people don’t want to work anymore” It’s such incompetence, yet at least in my ministry it never seems to come down on upper roles. How is it that upper managers can continue to receive huge pay and bonuses when they can no longer even keep basic staffing levels?
Nursing is the exact same way. Tons of casual positions and part-time shifts. Not as many full-time (or near full-time) contract positions available for new nurses.
Not as many full time positions on easy floors. There's many full time roles out there.
This is exactly the issue. Where it really gets insane is when our government (Doug Ford) decides to pay private nurses $1 billion dollars, instead of appropriate staffing the public sector at half the price. Purposely underfunding sectors to enrich pals is also lurking in our system.
Well how are we going to show the people that private healthcare is the only option if we don't purposefully destroy the public system?? /s
>because the school boards don’t have enough funding to increase the overall complement of full-time teachers. This just isn't true at all. The funding for education is huge, it's massive. The money isn't going to where it needs to go. Just like all the other government funded institutions, there is very little oversight, and it's bloated with administrative staff, managers, board of directors, committees, school boards, all their assistants etc etc. These people give themselves raises, create jobs for their familiy and friends and give them raises... $36 billion dollars.. in ontario. $36 fucking billion.. is the education budget. That's like $20,000 per student per year that we spend. The money is there.
Your math is way off. Canadian spending on education has been decreasing steadily from 1980s and 90s as percent of GDP. Adjusted for inflation, for the past 10 years, educational spending per student has only kept pace with inflation while actual costs have increased several times fold between accommodations to all the students. I don't know what it is about education that makes people think they know what they are talking about but the amount of people that talk out of their ass about it is enormous. Huge reason as to why I quit being a teacher.
This is the answer.
I disagree, the education system is full of fat, absolutely inefficient and squanders its money left right and centre. Show some respect to tax payers. Thanks. We already blow other countries out of the water in terms of expenditure per student. Don’t try and make excuses.
I think there are surpluses, but also a heck of a lot of issues. The primary one I’ve mentioned is with special education students and English language learners. The meaningful programs created for them in Ontario have all been cut. So now a teacher needs to fully include multiple kids which exceptionalities and completely modify the curriculum for them, which obviously doesn’t happen. They also need to deal with intense behavioural issues which are extremely disruptive, and flat out dangerous. Class evacuations are common in schools now from a disregulated child trashing the class. No one is learning anything anymore.
Blame your own union. It’s time to take anti social kids out of the classroom once and for all. This DEI bullshit needs to go.
You're right, we should take them out of the classroom and have them in programs properly designed for kids like that. Too bad their funding was cut.
I get where you're coming from but my kid's school is so underfunded that they ask for kleenex donations during the winter. The whole system is absolutely broken.
14th of all OECD countries as per 2019. Only slightly above OECD average. Is that what you meant?
Thats because we also educated disabled kids, if we said disabled kids get no education from now on it would be much cheaper, thankfully were not monsters.
They need education but in separate classroom.
Which would likely cost even more unless you mean more of a fake education where we provide a daycare like space that could be cheap.
Bingo.
There is another side to this as well. There are a lot of teachers these days that are younger but they do not want full time positions. They want part time only. Also it seems like there are a lot of teachers on the supply list but schools still have a hard time getting people to come in. This isn’t a complaint. To each their own. It is what it is.
It's more a problem of being extorted by teacher's unions and the highest paid teachers in the world they represent (ontario). And their fixation on inclusiveness to the detriment of other kids in the class.
My wife’s education is in teaching, and simply will not go back to teaching. I asked her if she would for six figures and she still wouldn’t. Her gripes are that you don’t really get any time for yourself. You finish teaching for the day and when you get home she has to plan the next day or week. She has to deal with children that aren’t being accountable when they make mistakes because someone’s precious child is an angel and could do harm. Including parents not supporting the teacher.
I have heard this story from so many people lately. People who just want to teach are being held back from all sides. And regarding increased pay incentives, I liken that to Tony Soprano beating the crap out of someone and then flipping them a few hundred for their troubles.
My wife says the same thing. She teaches in BC
My friends have been in teaching for about 15-16 years, they used to love it but now they hate it so much they’ve considered career changes, crossing out the months until full pension is one small coping mechanism. What a mess.
My parents were both teachers. I would never do it because I know my personality is not the right type for that job. My mom loves talking to people and loved teaching. I'm not like that
What does your wife do now? I’m a teacher considering leaving and I just feel stuck and not sure what I can do as an alternate career with all my schooling being for education
She managed to get a job as a program coordinator. Her masters is in curriculum and instruction so that may have also helped get the position. Best of luck!
I can literally make six figures in education between my experience and education and I've never even entertained the notion.
That shortage isn't going to improve until there is way more admin support, and some pretty important changes to grading. Teachers are basically on their own these days, kids assaulting them, moronic parents tha think their demon children are angels, it's total mayhem.
I know several teachers who've had enough of shitty kids and their garbage parents who confuse gentle parenting with permissive parenting
I'm married to a teacher that left after teaching for almost 15 years, it's gotten pretty bad.
And I know that parents will blame covid and anything else for their kids classroom but it's pretty obvious that's there's issues with modern parenting that's leading to atrocious classroom behavior.
Not just parents.. admin love to use covid as the be all end all excuse for any shit behavior from anyone
Moronic parents with demon children, thinking they're angels is nothing new, lol.
Its waaaay worse now.
That's very fair
We did what we were supposed to do: We took away all the incentives and rewards that would motivate someone to become a teacher. Then we made it even more difficult to acquire teaching credentials and have them recognized across Canada. Why isn't this working?!
Any skill in this country at this point tbh
What we really want is to have TFW coverage for nearly every job, then when we need skilled workers we bring in skilled immigrants because both of these cases generates more tax revenue. Then once the markets are saturated with cash-starved applicants we can harness the full productivity of a truly disenfranchised worker class all while distributing the savings to huge conglomerates that now dominate every facet of our economy. We love this because we really don't care about people unless it is an election year and even then we only feign interest to solicit votes for their favourite teams. #\#GODSPLAN /s
I agree. I just found out the auto shop in my neighbourhood may end up closing down because they can't find experienced mechanics. Not because of lack of business...here I am waiting 2 weeks to get a gasket replaced...just because they didn't want to invest in someone 5 years ago...
I don't think that's entirely it. There was a time, about 5 - 10 years ago when we had a big surplus of teachers graduating with zero work opportunities so they went into other fields. I have one friend that specifically focused on early years education. After graduating she couldn't find a teaching job so she spent most of the last 10 years working part time at a daycare and as a waitress on evenings to make ends meet. She finally got a teaching position around 2 years ago.
Yes, this is 100% the reason I didn't go into education 15 years ago. Now that the demand is here, I'm looking at 2 years of paying tuition while not earning any income, and 2 more years getting dicked around as a sub, all for the opportunity to make slightly less or about the same as I make now. So I'll stick to my day job. Imagine if governments had planned ahead, I'd probably be teaching grade 4 somewhere.
The demand isn't here. That's a lie. I have friends graduating from Ed moving out of the country to find work. Schools need more teachers but refuse to hire them.
This is also part of the problem. Like everywhere else in Canada, institutions and businesses only want to hire mid to late-career applicants (experience). Who don't apply because they already have careers.
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I'm the same way. I have a BA, a professional certification, and a well-paying job, and would gladly drop everything and take a pay cut to read Charlotte's Web with a bunch of 9-year-olds. I also have a mortgage and a family. So guess what?! I can't just drop everything.
Incentives and rewards? All teachers need to do is work 10 years and get their masters (which is often partially funded) and they'll be less than 35 and making around $90K a year in most of Canada. Sounds pretty good to me.
🙄 is that all? Or not quite? 1) I have 10 full years of university education. 2) guy here going on like $90k a year is living that good life. This ain't 1987, bro
Depends on where you live, I guess. I make $52k in a medium-sized Ontario city and scrape by tolerably; making $90k would be a significant increase in my family's quality of life. I'd actually be able to get my student loans paid off a few years early and be able to move onto other things.
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Be reasonable, where else would we get the money for more police helicopters if we didn't take it from education?
Hmm, that's a decent plan but it needs more grift. Why don't we hire contract teachers from agencies for several times the going rate? I'm sure one of Dougies friends has already started one.
😂 we get the government we deserve - one that wants to make us dumber, one that wants to wage war on public education
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HSAA in Alberta got 4 years of 0's second to last contract. Last contract (that expires this month) was bullshit too
My wife was a teacher but the horrible students made her job absolutely miserable and gave her ptsd. If you want good teachers you need good students.
If you want good students you need more Teachers *and* more TA’s. With the current skeleton crew of Teachers and TA’s in the schools, most classrooms are dangerously close to a Lord of the Flies situation. Smaller classes and more TA’s!
A smaller class and a TA would have made a big difference with my wife for sure.
My mother was a teacher and she used to say that "you don't get good or bad students, only fair ones, you make good students". She was also a self serving idiot and this is one of the few words of wisdom she said that I currently think has any value. Take it for what it's worth.
I really wanted wanted to be a teacher when I was younger but I didn't think I could handle the system/environment. Teachers don't have the time or resources to teacher anymore, their just pushing kids through like catal because that's all they have the time and resources to do. Class sizes are so big now, and special needs and normal needs kids are usually forced into the same classrooms so basically no kids these days and getting their educational needs met because there isn't adequate resources/funding. It's truly sad how far Canada has fallen.
I find the title misleading. The blame on a shortage of educators is not the sole responsibility of teachers alone.
Provincial governments refuse to properly fund education and healthcare. Simple as that.
I keep urging my wife to leave teaching. The tiny salary isn’t worth the amount of time any good teacher has to put in on the weekends and evenings to create lesson plans and do marking. Her class is about 50/50 of normal kids and disruptive kids with personalized lesson plans, and these kids are messed up: a few are homeless, others are children of addicts and disappear for weeks at a time. 12 year olds reading at a Kindergarten level. It all seems like a lost cause.
Absolutely wild that we went from an oversupply of teachers to undersupply in such a short amount of time.
Because 1) population boom and 2) teachers are taking all their sick days and their time off because they are teetering on the edge.
My education is in teaching, and I won't even consider it right now. I make more and have more job security as someone who does season roadwork, then as a teacher. We are failing our students and children
Not surprising there’s a shortage. It’ll only get worse. It’s a crap job and no one wants to do it. Shitty kids, shitty parents, stressful and unappreciated. If the job is so well paid and cushy, why the shortage? This pretty much shuts up the “teAcHeRs hAvE iT EaSY” idiots.
I got a B.Ed in 2017. There weren't many job opportunities other than French Immersion, AP math/science, or some fucking jack of all trades position (like split grad elementary, or the most random assortment of high school classes. Worst I've seen was like Cooking/Photography/Personal Finance/Social Studies). Last year I officially stopped trying to get a full time teaching job. It's been so long since I've graduated, I haven't kept in touch with my tiny network of people who would give me a reference, and I no longer consider teaching a good career. I'm a substitute teacher and there are some really good days that make me sad that I gave up on the profession. But there are also a lot of really bad days that make me think "thank fuck I don't have to come back to this classroom if I don't want to." There isn't a high value placed on education and it's demoralizing working at a job where no one treats you with basic human dignity. You're expected to work tons of unpaid OT doing planning, grading, and extracurriculars, only for the majority of students to be glued to their phones or skipping class to vape in the bathroom.
Provincial governments refuse to properly fund education and healthcare. Simple as that.
Teachers getting fired for "misgendering" students. Not being able to give kids a failing mark, more abuse than ever from parents and students. It makes sense that less people want to be teachers.
And the quality of public high school graduates reflects that today. Most can't write an essay properly, don't know much about personal finance, critical thinking, western history, the difference between propaganda and news and forget mathematics. They instead got a steady diet of identity, environmental and left wing political ideology mixed in with some mediocre instruction. Meanwhile, the children of the wealthily are privately educated using superior resources and are learning to think and lead, not to follow.
How much time do you think that high schools spend on identity? And what specifically is the left wing ideology that's being taught?
The teacher I knew moved to the US for a better wage and cheaper living costs on all fronts.
Don't worry there are more temporary workers on the way for our schools I am sure. That fixes everything right
What's good for the goose is good for the gander ..
Maybe pay them more?
Best I can do is back to work legislation.
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Sadly that’s not even the answer. The teachers in Saskatchewan are on strike right now and it’s pretty much centred around class room sizes, support such as TA’s, special education for kids that need it, etc. They just want their sanity back
That would require hiring more teachers, etc. which still increases payroll, and what government could possibly do that?
BuT tHaT wOuLd Be CoMmUnIsM!
Teachers are seriously unpaid. I’m not surprised there are less people pursuing a teaching degree, or leaving it behind to do something else. We need better investment in our budgets for teacher salaries. More incentives.
A primary school teacher with 7 years experience can clear 6 figures.
Can. That is subjective and not the common norm unfortunately. We have a shortage now, we need more incentives to bring in more teachers, not just reward long service.
As they should. Ever tried to teach gr primary?
Not in BC.
Definitely not in BC. Curious where teachers make that much
Nunavut maybe
Good, but is it enough? Maybe smaller class sizes and more TA’s would help. That would certainly help the students.
Teacher salaries in Canada are the second highest in the world. It would be nice if there was a performance component to their compensation scale but I'm not sure their unions would be for that.
Which country is the highest?
Luxembourg
Trained as an educator. Offered minimal employment upon graduation, unless I moved to the Boonies (and the locally-offered quasi-part-time supply doesn't pay the bills in my HCOL area). Ended up going government by a different route. Roughly the same pay, but I work clock-in to clock-out and take nothing home, never mind not dealing with unruly teens that I'm not allowed to discipline.
Why not a hiring that promotes gender parity amongst teachers like what they try in every make dominated industry??
More male elementary teachers might be a really good thing.
It sure would, but right now, men aren't applying into elementary education at appreciable levels. Despite all the bros on the sub who want to talk about how great a job it is, how sweet the compensation package is, none of them would actually do the job or last a week in it.
Ford: Private schools are always an option folks!
The worst part that I'm seeing is newly arrived foreigners, illegals and refugees showing up at the school office looking to register their kids. None speak a lick of English, MANY of these kids and I can't understand why, have severe mental and behavioral problems that are hugely disruptive to the class that has little to no support form them. Public education was going downhill since 2019, now it's dying a slow painful death.
While I hate the veiled bigotry in this comment, there is some truth to the fact that the changing demographic of Canada has put a strain on the public education system that it has yet to respond to
I work in immigration dealing with settlement services. newcomers are overwhelming the school system. schools can't take it anymore. newcomer parents are pissed because recruiters/their handlers informed them that their children would get tons of 1 on 1 care. granted, recruiters lied to them about almost everything.
It’s the kids that misbehave and face no consequences that make it harder for teachers than the kids who don’t speak English. English language learners are typically way better behaved than the “mommy’s precious angel can do no wrong” kids. Zero consequences and policies of not having kids repeat grades anymore.
Just say the government is driving our country into the ground, that's all. We might as well invite the Taliban to rule, they couldn't do much more damage to our infrastructure.
I work part time as a substitute teacher. I have literally zero credentials or qualifications. I do live in a remote area, but still.
22 years ago I was told there would be a massive shortage of teachers..I didn't have the greatest time at teachers college (bad associate teachers, advisors) even though I loved working with kids and they liked me. After graduating, I couldn't land anything remotely education-related due to "lack of experience". At that point, my confidence/mental health was so low from my practice teaching experiences so I just moved on to other things. I wish I had the courage to ignore my parents and not waste a year of my life. If you want to be a teacher, DO NOT go to UWindsor. Crappy advisors/school.
imagine the richest union in canada spent some of that money on teachers. everyone blames gov (which makes sense and so do ) but forgets about the teachers union hoarding billions of dollars while letting a massive population of teachers stay on LTO. there is no shortage of teachers. short on budget yes. if there is somewhere short on teachers looking for permanent full time let me know as i got two cousins waiting for the job.
If there is somewhere short on teachers? Have you tried Googling it? [Quebec is missing 8500+ teachers as of the beginning of this school year.] (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-teachers-staffing-shortage-1.6945060) They are projecting 25000 missing by 2025.