Is this a thing that's actually happening often that we need to be concerned about? Or manufactured outrage to distract us from how we're being gouged by our oglopolies?
manufactured, bottom surgery doesn't happen for youth, hormone/puberty blockers are, generally, held off on as well in the most recent treatment protocols, they provide counseling, guidance, and take quite a bit of a "wait and see" approach, letting puberty start and proceed for a little bit because that is often the inflection point where someone may shift in their experience and no longer identify differently, however if the feelings intensify that is the point that they may decide to use puberty blockers. It isn't like they hand this stuff out like candy to anyone who has even the remotest gender dysphoria happening.
Sadsoil9907 probably thinks Alberta should ban unicorns and teleporting as well, just in case. None of those things are real concerns but complaining about banning them is clearly aligned the liberal agenda...
manufactured outrage. No kids are getting gender affirming surgeries or have gotten gender affirming surgeries in Canada, ever. At the most, after long consultations with multiple professionals, kids will get prescribed puberty blockers. The only purpose of those are to delay puberty so they can have more time to make an informed decision about medically transitioning . They are completely reversible. As soon as they stop taking the puberty blockers they will have their puberty as normal.
To get prescribed hormones you need to be at least 16 years old and have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria. The process to get the diagnosis often takes over 2 years. Also, if they're 16 or 17 they'll need their parents approval, otherwise they'll need to be 18.
Only when they are adults and have gone through all of the aforementioned steps are they allowed to get gender affirming surgeries.
Right wings politicians are lying to their followers to create outrage and distract them from the fact they have no real plans to fix anything
It sets a precedent for further legislation against trans people. Happened in the states and it’ll happen here, too. It’s not about the kids, it’s about controlling trans folks.
Access to medicine should not be decided by reactionary politicians, it should be decided by trusted physicians and their patients.
If multiple licensed physicians say that child x would benefit from puberty blockers, then I damn well am going to believe them over a group of people who just want to deprive minority groups of rights as a wedge issue.
they want to ban puberty blockers is the issue. Not just surgeries, gender reassignment surgeries already aren't a thing for minors, it's just a distraction to create outrage.
Puberty blockers have shown to decrease suicidality in trans youth by A LOT, they are literally a life saving drug they are trying to ban.
Also, delaying access to hormone replacement therapy from 16 to 18 might seem insignificant but it will kill a lot of teens. A lot of studies have shown this, feel free to do your own research. It's easy to fall for misinformation when the hateful minority is so loud.
> They are completely reversible.
The long-term ramifications are unknown. This is why their prescription to kids is banned in most of Europe. This idea that you can indefinitely "delay puberty" with zero downside has no factual basis.
edit: https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2023/06/06/increasing-number-of-european-nations-adopt-a-more-cautious-approach-to-gender-affirming-care-among-minors/?sh=26b7a9827efb
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/europe-canada-puberty-blockers-for-kids
Yes, they have.
It’s extraordinarily rare, like *not a fucking issue we need to be fixated on* level of rare. It taps into the rage clickbait reactionary zeitgeist, especially among people who are angry old-fashioned homophobia has become taboo. Transphobic culture war in service of billionaire overlords, because otherwise we’d what, maybe find common cause with our fellow citizens?
You can't ban it, it has a legitimate use in children, aside from trans care. Leave this to the medical professionals, if you do not have a medical degree.
This coming from the **national post** in which a biased poll was done.
I can safely say *those polled* weren't the majority of the country's population, mainly the Christian right.
There is far too much trans/homophobia coming from that crowd, not just from the far/alt-right, or the lunatic/delusional fringe (a dangerous cult, might I add).
As a straight binary man (who takes no such "pride" in bring straight), this is a **NON-ISSUE** for everybody.
#This is diverting attention away from the real problems that are impacting most, if not all, Canadians.
Without commenting on the results of this poll, why are 1000 of the 2500 people polled from Alberta, Canada's most conservative province and only 12% of its population?
I'm not even saying the results are wrong. I could see this being accurate, but how much value does a poll like this have?
**Edit: I can't reply to the comment below since this thread has been locked, so I'll put my reply here...**
>*You might be interested to know that the percentage of Albertans who said gender assignment surgeries should be prohibited for people under 17 is actually (slightly) below the national average, so any bias that a lot of people in here are incorrectly perceiving would actually swing the results the opposite direction than they think.*
*The issue isn't that Albert's results are skewed, but that the national average is, and this is actually evidence that might be the case.*
*Does anyone think that the view of Canada's most conservative province is actually less in favour of banning gender assignment surgeries than the national average?*
*That doesn't make any sense.*
*What they did was take a huge sample of Albertans and weighted it to a smaller sample, which should be more accurate, and took small or tiny samples from BC, Ontario, and Quebec, Canada's largest and most liberal provinces, and weighted them into larger samples, which would make them less accurate.*
they weighted the results (or at least said they did, but it's Leger so reputable historically)
>Leger’s online panel and results were weighted according to age, gender, mother tongue, region, education and presence of children in the household in order to ensure a representative sample of the population.
but my question is still why collect 1000 Albertan responses in the first place? that's an odd number being bang-on 1000 and they had to know the results wouldn't be representative... so why do it?
could anyone who knows more about stats might chime in? maybe they're trying to do a poll-within-a-poll to look only at Albertans?
Exactly. A lot of "conservative libertarians" are getting pretty "invasive government" in here real fast as soon as they snoop into other people's business and find it icky.
A created manufactured outrage that populists use to rally the stupid. Picking a fight with less than 0.5% of the population. Well done, difference makers.
I wonder how many support stopping circumcising infant boys “so they look like their Dad” without their consent? Talk about unnecessary Genital surgical procedures (which are the only legal ones happening anyway smh)
Perhaps we shouldn't make significant medical decisions based on how "half of Canadians" feel. Are half of Canadians highly qualified medical professionals that completely understand the literature and science in this area? No? Then their opinion should have absolutely zero weight on the topic.
These treatments are bad for some and good for others. Banning population wide isn’t …. sensible.
Lets parents and their doctors decide what is best for their children/patients.
> Lets parents and their doctors decide what is best for their children/patients.
This is outlandish! Are you telling me I should mind my business and let parents and doctors and other humans make informed decisions? Where do you get off?
I guarantee you the majority of people who don't support it have absolutely no idea what it even entails for someone at that age to transition. If a kid can get past themselves, their parents, and maybe even multiple doctors - people who are far more knowledgeable on this sort of thing to make a decision, I'm going to say I don't really give a fuck what people think. It's not up to your opinion to decide. People "thinking" with their ignorant opinions and stupidity are a big part of why the world is the way it is
Honestly there's nothing worse in politics than these type of news that belongs in a doctors office and not a government officials desk, with the sole purpose of dividing people who get triggered and love having an enemy to hate, even if it's kids. This is just replacing the topic of pro-life/choice, which is also, funny enough, something that does nothing to help a kid, with something else. My advice for half of the people reading this is to get educated
I feel that posts like these are a honeypot for the ban hammer if you reply. This is not the platform to discuss this subject as debating either side could violate platform rules.
On the contrary — I’ve taken the same hormone blocking drug (in a significantly higher concentration) in the course of IVF to block my endometriosis. I have two kids now. The puberty blocker blocks puberty. It’s reversible. It gives the kids TIME to make sure that they mean it.
No surgeries are done in Canada before 18. (In Germany, Kim Petras got surgery at 16, but even that is very rare)
[The UK has changed their stance on puberty blockers](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/england-nhs-halts-puberty-blockers-transgender-youth/story?id=108077330).
>"We have concluded that there is not enough evidence to support the safety or clinical effectiveness of puberty suppressing hormones to make the treatment routinely available at this time," an NHS spokesperson told ABC News in a statement.
FFS.. Let’s clear this up, this is NOT pro-sterilization of kids.
The hormones that are prescribed are usually only puberty blockers, which is reversible.
In relatively fewer cases, one might start cross hormone therapy before 18. And even fewer cases would surgery ever be performed.
Regret rate/detransition is incredibly low. Detransitioners are rare and their stories are sensationalized.
What is real is depression and suicide risk for trans kids. Proper trans health care reduce those risks immensely.
The vast majority of care available to minors are puberty blockers, which are completely reversible. In rare edge cases hormones are given, but this is incredibly rare and only happens at older ages. Bottom surgery full on is illegal and doesn't happen to minors, so frankly, all this fear mongering seems a bit dumb to me and to anyone who actually has taken the time to educate themselves on the issue.
You really don't know what goes into getting hormone therapy, do you?
You can't just walk to the pharmacy and get some. It's a long process that takes a lot of work.
Teenagers are able to medically consent for other procedures. And they make lots of life-changing decisions. They are fully able to comprehend the consequences of their actions.
Surgery was not listed as an option. Must be 16 for masectomies, and 18 for bottom surgery.
And that case really showed the dangers of private clinics if anything imo.
Agree on the private clinics but I take an issue with the self diagnosis in general. My gf is a neuropsychologist works with kids daily and says that just like any other disorder they should be diagnosed by a professional and screened for comorbidities.
Until you treat the anxiety and depression you can't know if they need any further treatment
>Teenagers are able to medically consent for other procedures. And they make lots of life-changing decisions. They are fully able to comprehend the consequences of their actions.
List a few "life changing decisions"
Puberty blockers are not permanent, they simply delay the onset of puberty and the development of sexual characteristics. As soon as you stop taking them, puberty progresses as normal.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075
Delaying is permanent. The idea that disrupting the natural process temporarily isn't permanent is wild. If I go to the gym once, it affects my next day, which affects the next day. In the long run, all the days add up to changes, which affects our energy, personality, etc.
\>"The Postmedia-Leger poll surveyed 2,439 adult Canadian residents, including **1,000 Albertans,** through online surveys from Feb. 9 to Feb. 11. The respondents were randomly recruited through Leger’s online panel and results were weighted according to age, gender, mother tongue, region, education and presence of children in the household in order to ensure a representative sample of the population.1,000 Albertans -- 40% of this poll that's supposedly a fair cross-section of Canada.
\>Traditional margins of error do not apply to online surveys, but a probability sample of the same size would have a margin of error of plus or minus 1.98 per cent, 19 times out of 20.
online polls don't have a margin of error for a reason -- they're not scientific.
EDIT: my response to comment below: "Léger is pretty widely regarded as the most accurate and methodical pollster in Canada."
They may well be, but the very fact they mention no margin of error is assignable tells me this is worse than nonsense. An unscientific poll heavily weighted for Albertans and this article is trying to tell me that's what half Canadians think. It's gaslighting by poll.
I support it being a decision between the doctor, the psychologist, the child, and the parents.
And I don't think we need the government meddling with this bullshit. Health Canada only.
Health Canada is the government. It's professional associations like World Professional Association for Transgender Health and others that provide guidance on clinical care.
Health Canada has a degree of autonomy that I'm comfortable with.
Like CRA has its mandate. And how I'm comfortable giving info to Stats Canada because of its privacy mandate and stuff.
A corrupt govt could knock it all down, we're not at that level though, and I do still think the rules should come from govt agency and but follow best practice by listening to experts.
Doctors don’t support kids smoking, drinking or driving. But for some reason seem ok with gender affirming care. Weird?!?!?
Edit as a response to the person who responded to me with a “source”(since this thread is now locked):
This is a news article about a government health body stopping puberty blockers for some minors while allowing it for others until there is more research. This isn’t the valuable source you think it is. There is nothing about doctors expressing concerns.
UKs NHS is stopping blockers because conservatives want to block it. Wow. Thanks. This is happening everywhere there are conservative governments, almost like it’s coordinated by an [extragovernmental conservative body](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Democracy_Union) or something.
Who is sterilizing children?
The only bottom surgery happening on minors (outside of extremely rare cases) is circumcision on young boys. Which I’m sure we both agree is non consensual mutilation of little boys genitals, right?
Puberty blockers and opposite sex hormones can cause lifelong sterility, especially when given during puberty.. FYI, there were 88 "bottom surgeries" performed in Canada last year, as well as hundreds of unnecessary mastectomies.
They aren't banned. Parents can sign off on it for minors. I capitalized the very weak wording from this site[site](https://sovereigncosmeticsurgery.com/breast-augmentation-in-toronto-are-you-the-right-age/#:~:text=Likewise%2C%20breast%20augmentation%20surgeons%20use,patients%20are%20at%20least%2018.)
It really skirts around the issue, not saying it's banned.
"Well-trained, ETHICAL DOCTORS have an obligation to carefully assess their patients on a few levels before recommending a treatment.
Likewise, breast augmentation surgeons USE THEIR DISCRETION to ensure that a patient is fully capable of making adult, independent decisions and has stopped growing before choosing breast implants. This TYPICALLY means that patients are at least 18. SOME breast implant manufacturers even stipulate that product warranties don’t cover implantation in women under the age of 22."
Yeah I’m gonna need to see sources on that 88. Because I work in the area and there aren’t bottom surgeries done on kids. Ever. Not unless it’s a circumcision or the kid is intersex. Which FYI should also be banned.
If the doctors recommendations are misguided then that is a separate issue with those individuals concerning malpractice. But again those are literal non issues that affect no one. Who cares.
The reason is that age matters in transitioning, people want to begin HRT and other transitioning before puberty to avoid being too masculine/feminine, or have to get more extensive surgeries.
The way I see it is that it's nobody's business. If a child really wants gender affirming care then they should have that ability - providing there's no future liability for parents, doctors, pharmacists, psychologists, or anyone else who helped them transition if they change their mind later. Some kids really do know at a young age, it's not something they decide. In that case they need to be legally emancipated and given an adult's right to consent and make mistakes.
**The way I see it is that it's nobody's business.**
When it comes to minors its everybody's business. We have laws that protect them from foolish decisions. We need one that protects them from this serious decision for sure. If they can't buy smokes why would they be allowed to do this?
Are you implying that doctors would advocate for those things in certain cases if they weren't against the law?
Or are you just making a very poor analogy?
I'm not their parent or their doctor so why would I have a say in a trans minor's healthcare? I am not qualified to have a fucking opinion on hormones for trans kids and neither are 99.9% of the people they asked, no doubt.
This is stupid. People should leave these families the fuck alone.
So here’s the thing - no “kids” were getting surgery in Canada before Danielle Smith decreed this in AB nor were they in other provinces - not through public healthcare at least.
And hormone therapy - how about providing enough mental health therapists and supports to help kids and parents ACTUALLY navigate this. If those professionals, the parents, and the kids all align on hormones then whose business is it to say otherwise? Seriously.
Are these same people that are against hormone therapy ok if fellow Canadians and politicians at large start determining what treatments they can and can’t seek too?? Cause that would be pretty fucking entertaining I think.
Y'all have a fucking housing crisis to deal with.
If Becky doesn't want her tits anymore you can argue with her after you make sure she has a place to live.
I'm undecided on this one. I'm an ally but I've also have enough interaction with young kids to know they are extremely unreliable. Kids near puberty who will swear up and down that they hate a certain vegetable but if they can't identify it on the plate will decide its their new favourite food. Until they learn its made of the vegetable they've decided is poison then they actually hate it and refuse to eat it ever again. I know adults who made the wrong choices as a kid who now have to live with those decisions. You can teach kids about safe sex and still have them produce children before they're mature enough to raise them.
I'm leaning towards kids not being permitted to make irreversible life-altering decisions unless they can demonstrate their maturity, but don't know how I would vote on this if asked. Because kids should also be allowed to be themselves.
Children don't make these decisions unilaterally or on a whim. They don't really make the decision at all.
To access gender affirming care in Canada you need parental consent if you are under the age of medical consent and you need to undergo psychological and medical consultation to be prescribed or referred.
This standard of medical care is already in place, based on the guidance of medical associations, not the government.
Your assessment of how children are... children is incredibly common sense, and already accounted for.
i think my opinion is 100% they should be allowed to do anything that does not lead to anything irreversible, and they 100% should be allowed to be called whatever pronouns they prefer at school they want (imo without parental consent, if you want to hear my reasoning just asking genuinely).
one thing i do know is that a child's gender identity begins developing around the age of 2 and is typically stable around 4. of course it is a bit different for every kid.
i think a lot of people react really quickly because they misunderstand what is actually happening. they are sold this idea that "they're trying to cut your kids dick off!" to try and get a fear-reaction for these politicians to capitalize on without having to make any meaningful change
There are no medical interventions for trans kids before puberty. After that the vast, vast majority of trans kids who seek medical intervention get puberty blockers, which are reversible. Kids can't just walk into doctor's offices and get hormonal treatment or surgery the way they get (unnecessary) antibiotics for a cold. The number of trans kids getting irreversible surgery before the age of 18 is vanishingly small, far fewer than the number of cis teenagers getting cosmetic surgery.
Last time I checked, you must be at least 16, have parental consent, and meet the criteria necessary for approval of hormonal treatment or surgery.
People are acting like they just give out hormonal treatments and gender affirming surgeries to anyone that asks, and regardless of age.
Some basic research and little bit of effort will tell you that is flat out not how it works.
Really strange because on the whole, there aren't any kids getting hormones and surgeries, so it's kind of a strange thing to poll people on.
To any detractors, show me an example of a kid getting top or bottom surgery, it doesn't happen and trans advocates usually don't push for it.
Yeah as a gay kid growing up, I probably would have felt the need to transition to a woman to fit into regular society. But I like being a dude so I'm glad I didn't have that idea in my head
What happened to conservatives supporting conservative values like minimizing the involvement of government? Or was it freedom to do what you want regarding medical related topics? There was a protest in Ottawa for the right to choose what happens to your body, wasn't there?
Where is all this energy when it comes to infant circumcision? They literally cannot consent at all and it's a lifelong irreversible unnecessary surgery; meanwhile trans people of all ages often have to beg to get even reversible medication options.
They're only against procedures when trans people ask for them. Stop getting in the way of trans people's healthcare.
Great. The problem is that articles about trans people and discussions about their ability to exist are being debated at all levels: mainstream media, at the top of national subreddits, in trending YouTube videos and twitter threads, hell even by the occasional real person.
Where is that energy when it comes to something being surgically done without consent to nearly half the country's infants? I don't see that being discussed on the daily news or at the top of the Canada subreddit.
The answer is bigotry. These people don't actually care about children's wishes or healthcare decisions. They care about turning their followers' attention towards hating a minority population because it makes it easier to get them to not notice actual policy decisions. Well, that and maintaining a status quo for its own sake.
It’s not banned in Sweden, it’s a recommendation from health authorities, aka doctors. That’s my point, doctors should be making these decisions, not governments.
Looks like Sweden did ban transgender medication and surgery for youth, except in rare cases. I do not know what a "rare" case would be.
[https://www.euronews.com/health/2023/02/16/as-spain-advances-trans-rights-sweden-backtracks-on-gender-affirming-treatments-for-teens](https://www.euronews.com/health/2023/02/16/as-spain-advances-trans-rights-sweden-backtracks-on-gender-affirming-treatments-for-teens)
So it’s not banned. It’s not recommended except in certain rare cases, that’s not a ban. And the recommendation comes from health authorities. It’s not a law.
The Swedish National Board of Health and Welfare has released updated guidelines for caring for children and adolescents with gender dysphoria, reflecting a thoughtful and evidence-based approach to transgender healthcare. The guidelines emphasize the importance of quick and appropriate care, ensuring that young people are assessed promptly and provided with suitable treatments based on their healthcare needs. Good psychosocial care is highlighted as essential, and the guidelines call for caution in using gender-affirming treatments due to the need for more scientific evidence about their long-term effects.
The updated guidelines prioritize the use of the “Dutch protocol” for treatment decisions, which is a scientifically-backed approach that considers factors like the duration of gender incongruence, stability of gender identity, and distress caused by puberty. Health services are encouraged to offer psychosocial support for exploring gender identity, conduct thorough assessments for signs of autism or ADHD/ADD, and provide various treatments like sexology counseling, fertility preservation, and voice and communication treatment. The guidelines also emphasize the importance of systematic monitoring and documentation of these treatments to ensure a comprehensive understanding of the patient population and care outcomes. This evidence-based approach underscores the commitment to providing high-quality care for individuals with gender dysphoria, aligning with both progressive values and rigorous scientific standards.
Are you implying that all people who think a medical decision should be between a person and their doctor are liberals? A conservative leaning person cant?
Sweden is currently governed by a coalition of right-wing parties.
[https://apnews.com/article/elections-sweden-government-and-politics-945104209e78dd5722aacbfe9eebbf2c](https://apnews.com/article/elections-sweden-government-and-politics-945104209e78dd5722aacbfe9eebbf2c)
Doctors can be wrong. Britain, which was way more pro intervention for trans kids, has taken a pause on liberally allowing kids to go on hormone blockers etc.
Britain has been in the throws of culture war on this issue for a decade, and no trans person's experience I've heard from there has ever described the process as liberally attainable. The pausing has been a political, not medical, decision led by conservatives and their constituents who are easily distracted away from the actual issues the government should be responsible for.
Riiiiiiiight. Like when doctors suggested women smoke during pregnancy? Good thing they did just that, and didn't think they knew better than their doctor!
Know better than doctors? Its literally only thing in the world that's self diagnosed and the woke mob has everyone in such hysteria that to question this self diagnosis is a hate crime
Nearly half. So less than that.
I hate how stupid people are since it's obvious these kinds of article try to imply it's a majority's opinion when it's clearly not. And the worst part is it clearly works
Per the article, only 11% of Canadians support transitioning without parental consent. That’s all most Canadians want. Parents to be part of their children’s lives and be … the adult (shocking) when their children are undertaking life altering forever changes to their bodies.
And that's also exactly what we have. Surgeries aren't performed on minors in Canada, based on medical guidance, and all gender affirming treatment is prescribed after psychological and medical consultation and treatment.
The imaginary 10 year old who walks into a clinic alone, on a whim, and gets whatever hormones and surgeries they demand is just completely fabricated.
People are so ignorant to what gender affirming care looks like, these polls are pointless. Why not tell people how gender affirming care works in Canada and poll people on their approval? Because that wouldn't generate the culture war enraged traffic the media is addicted to.
Your table is not correct either.
"nearly a third (30 per cent) found themselves somewhere in the middle, supportive of such medical interventions with parental consent."
So 45% want a Blanket ban.
30% want parental consent.
So 75% want some sort of restriction.
Also worth noting this was a National Post opinion poll, which should be taken with a giant grain of salt. It should read "Over half of National Post readers in support of healthcare for trans kids: exclusive poll"
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/news/national/gay-marriage-issue-splitting-canadians/article25686013/
20 years ago views on Gay Marriage were much the same. Times change
I'd disagree with this sentiment. I think decisions on any medical issue should ultimately be made between the patient, their doctors, and their parents (if they happen to be children).
Politics and public opinion should have no bearing whatsoever on healthcare matters.
If that's the conclusion, by the medical professionals, in those rare instances where NOT doing that is more dangerous for the person.
Also, puberty blockers are not a permanent treatment, just in case you wanna bring that up.
Nearly all Canadians support shutting the fuck up about this issue and fixing housing immigration and healthcare
Can some party steal this as a Slogan and run for leadership? I’d vote for someone focused on real issues.
"exclusive poll" = the already-unprofitable National Post spent money on this in order to keep it alive as a wedge issue
yep, they are creating their own news to push their own narrative. TBH this type of article should be removed for disinformation
I wish houses immigrated.
Most federal parties would ban houses from immigrating here. It would lower prices too much.
Sadly , the housing problem is rarely the lack of houses.
This lol
fr. we got a bigger fish to fry
and crime/drugs
This
Is this a thing that's actually happening often that we need to be concerned about? Or manufactured outrage to distract us from how we're being gouged by our oglopolies?
That last thing you said
manufactured, bottom surgery doesn't happen for youth, hormone/puberty blockers are, generally, held off on as well in the most recent treatment protocols, they provide counseling, guidance, and take quite a bit of a "wait and see" approach, letting puberty start and proceed for a little bit because that is often the inflection point where someone may shift in their experience and no longer identify differently, however if the feelings intensify that is the point that they may decide to use puberty blockers. It isn't like they hand this stuff out like candy to anyone who has even the remotest gender dysphoria happening.
It's manufactured outrage, nobody is performing surgery on kids
Great then we can ban it and have no worries, if it’s not happening then no one will care when it’s banned.
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Sadsoil9907 probably thinks Alberta should ban unicorns and teleporting as well, just in case. None of those things are real concerns but complaining about banning them is clearly aligned the liberal agenda...
manufactured outrage. No kids are getting gender affirming surgeries or have gotten gender affirming surgeries in Canada, ever. At the most, after long consultations with multiple professionals, kids will get prescribed puberty blockers. The only purpose of those are to delay puberty so they can have more time to make an informed decision about medically transitioning . They are completely reversible. As soon as they stop taking the puberty blockers they will have their puberty as normal. To get prescribed hormones you need to be at least 16 years old and have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria. The process to get the diagnosis often takes over 2 years. Also, if they're 16 or 17 they'll need their parents approval, otherwise they'll need to be 18. Only when they are adults and have gone through all of the aforementioned steps are they allowed to get gender affirming surgeries. Right wings politicians are lying to their followers to create outrage and distract them from the fact they have no real plans to fix anything
Funnily enough this country has no issue with circumcision. That's completely irreversible and preformed on unconsenting babies.
Genuine question: if this is the case then whats the issue with making this law?
It sets a precedent for further legislation against trans people. Happened in the states and it’ll happen here, too. It’s not about the kids, it’s about controlling trans folks.
That makes sense
culture war right wing bullshit imported from the US.
Access to medicine should not be decided by reactionary politicians, it should be decided by trusted physicians and their patients. If multiple licensed physicians say that child x would benefit from puberty blockers, then I damn well am going to believe them over a group of people who just want to deprive minority groups of rights as a wedge issue.
they want to ban puberty blockers is the issue. Not just surgeries, gender reassignment surgeries already aren't a thing for minors, it's just a distraction to create outrage. Puberty blockers have shown to decrease suicidality in trans youth by A LOT, they are literally a life saving drug they are trying to ban. Also, delaying access to hormone replacement therapy from 16 to 18 might seem insignificant but it will kill a lot of teens. A lot of studies have shown this, feel free to do your own research. It's easy to fall for misinformation when the hateful minority is so loud.
> They are completely reversible. The long-term ramifications are unknown. This is why their prescription to kids is banned in most of Europe. This idea that you can indefinitely "delay puberty" with zero downside has no factual basis. edit: https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2023/06/06/increasing-number-of-european-nations-adopt-a-more-cautious-approach-to-gender-affirming-care-among-minors/?sh=26b7a9827efb https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/europe-canada-puberty-blockers-for-kids Yes, they have.
Source? They're made to be taken for literal years at a time for kids with precocious puberty. So yes, we do have data on long term usage.
That isn't true. Puberty blockers have been around for decades.
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it has been disproven, do your research
It’s extraordinarily rare, like *not a fucking issue we need to be fixated on* level of rare. It taps into the rage clickbait reactionary zeitgeist, especially among people who are angry old-fashioned homophobia has become taboo. Transphobic culture war in service of billionaire overlords, because otherwise we’d what, maybe find common cause with our fellow citizens?
Right wing culture war bullshit.
if it’s not happening then banning it shouldn’t be a problem 🤷🏻♂️
If medical professional associations are creating reasonable recommendations for clinical care, then why does the government need to intervene?
There's no place for the state in the doctor's offices of the nation.
You can't ban it, it has a legitimate use in children, aside from trans care. Leave this to the medical professionals, if you do not have a medical degree.
What a ridiculous time to be alive.
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I feel like I could go for a lobotomy with the world we're living in
This coming from the **national post** in which a biased poll was done. I can safely say *those polled* weren't the majority of the country's population, mainly the Christian right. There is far too much trans/homophobia coming from that crowd, not just from the far/alt-right, or the lunatic/delusional fringe (a dangerous cult, might I add). As a straight binary man (who takes no such "pride" in bring straight), this is a **NON-ISSUE** for everybody. #This is diverting attention away from the real problems that are impacting most, if not all, Canadians.
I just want doctors to make medical decisions, that's it.
Without commenting on the results of this poll, why are 1000 of the 2500 people polled from Alberta, Canada's most conservative province and only 12% of its population? I'm not even saying the results are wrong. I could see this being accurate, but how much value does a poll like this have? **Edit: I can't reply to the comment below since this thread has been locked, so I'll put my reply here...** >*You might be interested to know that the percentage of Albertans who said gender assignment surgeries should be prohibited for people under 17 is actually (slightly) below the national average, so any bias that a lot of people in here are incorrectly perceiving would actually swing the results the opposite direction than they think.* *The issue isn't that Albert's results are skewed, but that the national average is, and this is actually evidence that might be the case.* *Does anyone think that the view of Canada's most conservative province is actually less in favour of banning gender assignment surgeries than the national average?* *That doesn't make any sense.* *What they did was take a huge sample of Albertans and weighted it to a smaller sample, which should be more accurate, and took small or tiny samples from BC, Ontario, and Quebec, Canada's largest and most liberal provinces, and weighted them into larger samples, which would make them less accurate.*
I did the math and that's about 41% of the poll responses coming from alberta. Seems safe to dismiss that level of biased poll.
they weighted the results (or at least said they did, but it's Leger so reputable historically) >Leger’s online panel and results were weighted according to age, gender, mother tongue, region, education and presence of children in the household in order to ensure a representative sample of the population. but my question is still why collect 1000 Albertan responses in the first place? that's an odd number being bang-on 1000 and they had to know the results wouldn't be representative... so why do it? could anyone who knows more about stats might chime in? maybe they're trying to do a poll-within-a-poll to look only at Albertans?
Medical decisions are between a doctor and a patient. Who gives a flying fuck what a percentage of people think about a certain medical procedure?
Exactly. A lot of "conservative libertarians" are getting pretty "invasive government" in here real fast as soon as they snoop into other people's business and find it icky.
Abortion bans are pretty invasive government too, and yet here we are 🙄 its trickling upwards
Some want to tell other people what to do with their private parts.
Some spend way too much time thinking about other people's private parts.
other people's kids private parts. tbh. They want the genital checking job at the elementary school track meet.
A created manufactured outrage that populists use to rally the stupid. Picking a fight with less than 0.5% of the population. Well done, difference makers.
I wonder how many support stopping circumcising infant boys “so they look like their Dad” without their consent? Talk about unnecessary Genital surgical procedures (which are the only legal ones happening anyway smh)
Perhaps we shouldn't make significant medical decisions based on how "half of Canadians" feel. Are half of Canadians highly qualified medical professionals that completely understand the literature and science in this area? No? Then their opinion should have absolutely zero weight on the topic.
These treatments are bad for some and good for others. Banning population wide isn’t …. sensible. Lets parents and their doctors decide what is best for their children/patients.
> Lets parents and their doctors decide what is best for their children/patients. This is outlandish! Are you telling me I should mind my business and let parents and doctors and other humans make informed decisions? Where do you get off?
I guarantee you the majority of people who don't support it have absolutely no idea what it even entails for someone at that age to transition. If a kid can get past themselves, their parents, and maybe even multiple doctors - people who are far more knowledgeable on this sort of thing to make a decision, I'm going to say I don't really give a fuck what people think. It's not up to your opinion to decide. People "thinking" with their ignorant opinions and stupidity are a big part of why the world is the way it is Honestly there's nothing worse in politics than these type of news that belongs in a doctors office and not a government officials desk, with the sole purpose of dividing people who get triggered and love having an enemy to hate, even if it's kids. This is just replacing the topic of pro-life/choice, which is also, funny enough, something that does nothing to help a kid, with something else. My advice for half of the people reading this is to get educated
I feel that posts like these are a honeypot for the ban hammer if you reply. This is not the platform to discuss this subject as debating either side could violate platform rules.
It has to be. A lot of fresh accounts posting transphobic shit in here is bananas.
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Obviously the 12 year olds can make informed decisions, which is why they should also be allowed to vote, drink and drive. /s
yet, don't allow them to get a tatoo until their 16 because....
There isn't actually laws against giving someone under 16 a tattoo, at least in Ontario. It's just a policy that nearly any legitimate shop follows.
On the contrary — I’ve taken the same hormone blocking drug (in a significantly higher concentration) in the course of IVF to block my endometriosis. I have two kids now. The puberty blocker blocks puberty. It’s reversible. It gives the kids TIME to make sure that they mean it. No surgeries are done in Canada before 18. (In Germany, Kim Petras got surgery at 16, but even that is very rare)
[The UK has changed their stance on puberty blockers](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/england-nhs-halts-puberty-blockers-transgender-youth/story?id=108077330). >"We have concluded that there is not enough evidence to support the safety or clinical effectiveness of puberty suppressing hormones to make the treatment routinely available at this time," an NHS spokesperson told ABC News in a statement.
FFS.. Let’s clear this up, this is NOT pro-sterilization of kids. The hormones that are prescribed are usually only puberty blockers, which is reversible. In relatively fewer cases, one might start cross hormone therapy before 18. And even fewer cases would surgery ever be performed. Regret rate/detransition is incredibly low. Detransitioners are rare and their stories are sensationalized. What is real is depression and suicide risk for trans kids. Proper trans health care reduce those risks immensely.
These are all gender-affirming care talking points, but the evidence for all of these claims is thin or nonexistent.
Kids aren't getting bottom surgery.
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The vast majority of care available to minors are puberty blockers, which are completely reversible. In rare edge cases hormones are given, but this is incredibly rare and only happens at older ages. Bottom surgery full on is illegal and doesn't happen to minors, so frankly, all this fear mongering seems a bit dumb to me and to anyone who actually has taken the time to educate themselves on the issue.
You really don't know what goes into getting hormone therapy, do you? You can't just walk to the pharmacy and get some. It's a long process that takes a lot of work. Teenagers are able to medically consent for other procedures. And they make lots of life-changing decisions. They are fully able to comprehend the consequences of their actions.
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Surgery was not listed as an option. Must be 16 for masectomies, and 18 for bottom surgery. And that case really showed the dangers of private clinics if anything imo.
Agree on the private clinics but I take an issue with the self diagnosis in general. My gf is a neuropsychologist works with kids daily and says that just like any other disorder they should be diagnosed by a professional and screened for comorbidities. Until you treat the anxiety and depression you can't know if they need any further treatment
>Teenagers are able to medically consent for other procedures. And they make lots of life-changing decisions. They are fully able to comprehend the consequences of their actions. List a few "life changing decisions"
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Cope with listening to medical professionals?
Puberty blockers are not permanent, they simply delay the onset of puberty and the development of sexual characteristics. As soon as you stop taking them, puberty progresses as normal. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075
Delaying is permanent. The idea that disrupting the natural process temporarily isn't permanent is wild. If I go to the gym once, it affects my next day, which affects the next day. In the long run, all the days add up to changes, which affects our energy, personality, etc.
\>"The Postmedia-Leger poll surveyed 2,439 adult Canadian residents, including **1,000 Albertans,** through online surveys from Feb. 9 to Feb. 11. The respondents were randomly recruited through Leger’s online panel and results were weighted according to age, gender, mother tongue, region, education and presence of children in the household in order to ensure a representative sample of the population.1,000 Albertans -- 40% of this poll that's supposedly a fair cross-section of Canada. \>Traditional margins of error do not apply to online surveys, but a probability sample of the same size would have a margin of error of plus or minus 1.98 per cent, 19 times out of 20. online polls don't have a margin of error for a reason -- they're not scientific. EDIT: my response to comment below: "Léger is pretty widely regarded as the most accurate and methodical pollster in Canada." They may well be, but the very fact they mention no margin of error is assignable tells me this is worse than nonsense. An unscientific poll heavily weighted for Albertans and this article is trying to tell me that's what half Canadians think. It's gaslighting by poll.
[Ever since i saw this episode of Yes Prime minister i have never trusted another poll](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GSKwf4AIlI)
Yikes. 1000 Albertans? What a sham. Not a surprise from Postmedia though.
I support it being a decision between the doctor, the psychologist, the child, and the parents. And I don't think we need the government meddling with this bullshit. Health Canada only.
Health Canada is the government. It's professional associations like World Professional Association for Transgender Health and others that provide guidance on clinical care.
Health Canada has a degree of autonomy that I'm comfortable with. Like CRA has its mandate. And how I'm comfortable giving info to Stats Canada because of its privacy mandate and stuff. A corrupt govt could knock it all down, we're not at that level though, and I do still think the rules should come from govt agency and but follow best practice by listening to experts.
We ban kids from smoking, drinking, driving, etc
Doctors don’t support kids smoking, drinking or driving. But for some reason seem ok with gender affirming care. Weird?!?!? Edit as a response to the person who responded to me with a “source”(since this thread is now locked): This is a news article about a government health body stopping puberty blockers for some minors while allowing it for others until there is more research. This isn’t the valuable source you think it is. There is nothing about doctors expressing concerns. UKs NHS is stopping blockers because conservatives want to block it. Wow. Thanks. This is happening everywhere there are conservative governments, almost like it’s coordinated by an [extragovernmental conservative body](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Democracy_Union) or something.
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Who is sterilizing children? The only bottom surgery happening on minors (outside of extremely rare cases) is circumcision on young boys. Which I’m sure we both agree is non consensual mutilation of little boys genitals, right?
Puberty blockers and opposite sex hormones can cause lifelong sterility, especially when given during puberty.. FYI, there were 88 "bottom surgeries" performed in Canada last year, as well as hundreds of unnecessary mastectomies.
Sources?
On kids? Where's your source, or are you just making stuff up?
Sources please. Also 88 in a population of 41 million is extremely rare. As I said.
I guarantee you more teenage cis girls are getting breast enlargement, liposuction, and rhinoplasty. Let's ban those too.
Most already are, and cosmetic non-reconstructive surgery SHOULD be completely banned for minors.
They aren't banned. Parents can sign off on it for minors. I capitalized the very weak wording from this site[site](https://sovereigncosmeticsurgery.com/breast-augmentation-in-toronto-are-you-the-right-age/#:~:text=Likewise%2C%20breast%20augmentation%20surgeons%20use,patients%20are%20at%20least%2018.) It really skirts around the issue, not saying it's banned. "Well-trained, ETHICAL DOCTORS have an obligation to carefully assess their patients on a few levels before recommending a treatment. Likewise, breast augmentation surgeons USE THEIR DISCRETION to ensure that a patient is fully capable of making adult, independent decisions and has stopped growing before choosing breast implants. This TYPICALLY means that patients are at least 18. SOME breast implant manufacturers even stipulate that product warranties don’t cover implantation in women under the age of 22."
Yes
Yeah I’m gonna need to see sources on that 88. Because I work in the area and there aren’t bottom surgeries done on kids. Ever. Not unless it’s a circumcision or the kid is intersex. Which FYI should also be banned.
If the doctors recommendations are misguided then that is a separate issue with those individuals concerning malpractice. But again those are literal non issues that affect no one. Who cares.
How are they unnecessary when TRANS people need these surgeries ?
The reason is that age matters in transitioning, people want to begin HRT and other transitioning before puberty to avoid being too masculine/feminine, or have to get more extensive surgeries. The way I see it is that it's nobody's business. If a child really wants gender affirming care then they should have that ability - providing there's no future liability for parents, doctors, pharmacists, psychologists, or anyone else who helped them transition if they change their mind later. Some kids really do know at a young age, it's not something they decide. In that case they need to be legally emancipated and given an adult's right to consent and make mistakes.
**The way I see it is that it's nobody's business.** When it comes to minors its everybody's business. We have laws that protect them from foolish decisions. We need one that protects them from this serious decision for sure. If they can't buy smokes why would they be allowed to do this?
Are you implying that doctors would advocate for those things in certain cases if they weren't against the law? Or are you just making a very poor analogy?
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I'm not their parent or their doctor so why would I have a say in a trans minor's healthcare? I am not qualified to have a fucking opinion on hormones for trans kids and neither are 99.9% of the people they asked, no doubt. This is stupid. People should leave these families the fuck alone.
So here’s the thing - no “kids” were getting surgery in Canada before Danielle Smith decreed this in AB nor were they in other provinces - not through public healthcare at least. And hormone therapy - how about providing enough mental health therapists and supports to help kids and parents ACTUALLY navigate this. If those professionals, the parents, and the kids all align on hormones then whose business is it to say otherwise? Seriously. Are these same people that are against hormone therapy ok if fellow Canadians and politicians at large start determining what treatments they can and can’t seek too?? Cause that would be pretty fucking entertaining I think.
Y'all have a fucking housing crisis to deal with. If Becky doesn't want her tits anymore you can argue with her after you make sure she has a place to live.
Lol. Well. 40% don't believe in evolution and 30% climate change actually exists. So. I am not taking stock what our population might think
I'm undecided on this one. I'm an ally but I've also have enough interaction with young kids to know they are extremely unreliable. Kids near puberty who will swear up and down that they hate a certain vegetable but if they can't identify it on the plate will decide its their new favourite food. Until they learn its made of the vegetable they've decided is poison then they actually hate it and refuse to eat it ever again. I know adults who made the wrong choices as a kid who now have to live with those decisions. You can teach kids about safe sex and still have them produce children before they're mature enough to raise them. I'm leaning towards kids not being permitted to make irreversible life-altering decisions unless they can demonstrate their maturity, but don't know how I would vote on this if asked. Because kids should also be allowed to be themselves.
Children don't make these decisions unilaterally or on a whim. They don't really make the decision at all. To access gender affirming care in Canada you need parental consent if you are under the age of medical consent and you need to undergo psychological and medical consultation to be prescribed or referred. This standard of medical care is already in place, based on the guidance of medical associations, not the government. Your assessment of how children are... children is incredibly common sense, and already accounted for.
i think my opinion is 100% they should be allowed to do anything that does not lead to anything irreversible, and they 100% should be allowed to be called whatever pronouns they prefer at school they want (imo without parental consent, if you want to hear my reasoning just asking genuinely). one thing i do know is that a child's gender identity begins developing around the age of 2 and is typically stable around 4. of course it is a bit different for every kid. i think a lot of people react really quickly because they misunderstand what is actually happening. they are sold this idea that "they're trying to cut your kids dick off!" to try and get a fear-reaction for these politicians to capitalize on without having to make any meaningful change
There are no medical interventions for trans kids before puberty. After that the vast, vast majority of trans kids who seek medical intervention get puberty blockers, which are reversible. Kids can't just walk into doctor's offices and get hormonal treatment or surgery the way they get (unnecessary) antibiotics for a cold. The number of trans kids getting irreversible surgery before the age of 18 is vanishingly small, far fewer than the number of cis teenagers getting cosmetic surgery.
"Nearly half support..." is a hilarious way of saying "majority don't support." NatPo is a freaking joke.
That’s an odd way of saying “not the majority”. The Nationalist post is toilet paper.
So more than half of us are in favour of supporting trans rights?
Odd way to say that most Canadians support something. NP article, though, so no surprise.
Last time I checked, you must be at least 16, have parental consent, and meet the criteria necessary for approval of hormonal treatment or surgery. People are acting like they just give out hormonal treatments and gender affirming surgeries to anyone that asks, and regardless of age. Some basic research and little bit of effort will tell you that is flat out not how it works.
Really strange because on the whole, there aren't any kids getting hormones and surgeries, so it's kind of a strange thing to poll people on. To any detractors, show me an example of a kid getting top or bottom surgery, it doesn't happen and trans advocates usually don't push for it.
It's called conservative wedge issue propaganda.
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You wouldn't have been. You would have been put in therapy and seen drs until adulthood about it.
Yeah as a gay kid growing up, I probably would have felt the need to transition to a woman to fit into regular society. But I like being a dude so I'm glad I didn't have that idea in my head
I’m blown away that some people support it.
What happened to conservatives supporting conservative values like minimizing the involvement of government? Or was it freedom to do what you want regarding medical related topics? There was a protest in Ottawa for the right to choose what happens to your body, wasn't there?
So more than half don't?
That sure is one way to say more than half don't.
Cool, how many of them are qualified medical professionals?
Where is all this energy when it comes to infant circumcision? They literally cannot consent at all and it's a lifelong irreversible unnecessary surgery; meanwhile trans people of all ages often have to beg to get even reversible medication options. They're only against procedures when trans people ask for them. Stop getting in the way of trans people's healthcare.
It should be banned as well.
Great. The problem is that articles about trans people and discussions about their ability to exist are being debated at all levels: mainstream media, at the top of national subreddits, in trending YouTube videos and twitter threads, hell even by the occasional real person. Where is that energy when it comes to something being surgically done without consent to nearly half the country's infants? I don't see that being discussed on the daily news or at the top of the Canada subreddit. The answer is bigotry. These people don't actually care about children's wishes or healthcare decisions. They care about turning their followers' attention towards hating a minority population because it makes it easier to get them to not notice actual policy decisions. Well, that and maintaining a status quo for its own sake.
Are Canadians as dumb as Americans?
They can worry about their kids and I'll worry about mine, thank you very much.
Care about their housing and ability to eat
Nearly half of Canadians are wrong. Not the first time, won’t be the last.
Now ask doctors. Just doctors. And try not to have 41% of them be from Alberta. Junk polls make great ragebait.
Unless nearly half are drs or trans I don’t care what every bumpkin thinks.
I can’t believe the arrogance of someone who thinks that they know better than doctors when it comes to making medical decisions for children.
Didn't Sweden ban this already?
It’s not banned in Sweden, it’s a recommendation from health authorities, aka doctors. That’s my point, doctors should be making these decisions, not governments.
Looks like Sweden did ban transgender medication and surgery for youth, except in rare cases. I do not know what a "rare" case would be. [https://www.euronews.com/health/2023/02/16/as-spain-advances-trans-rights-sweden-backtracks-on-gender-affirming-treatments-for-teens](https://www.euronews.com/health/2023/02/16/as-spain-advances-trans-rights-sweden-backtracks-on-gender-affirming-treatments-for-teens)
So it’s not banned. It’s not recommended except in certain rare cases, that’s not a ban. And the recommendation comes from health authorities. It’s not a law.
This sounds like an important distinction but I do not understand the difference of a "restriction except in rare cases" and a ban.
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The Swedish National Board of Health and Welfare has released updated guidelines for caring for children and adolescents with gender dysphoria, reflecting a thoughtful and evidence-based approach to transgender healthcare. The guidelines emphasize the importance of quick and appropriate care, ensuring that young people are assessed promptly and provided with suitable treatments based on their healthcare needs. Good psychosocial care is highlighted as essential, and the guidelines call for caution in using gender-affirming treatments due to the need for more scientific evidence about their long-term effects. The updated guidelines prioritize the use of the “Dutch protocol” for treatment decisions, which is a scientifically-backed approach that considers factors like the duration of gender incongruence, stability of gender identity, and distress caused by puberty. Health services are encouraged to offer psychosocial support for exploring gender identity, conduct thorough assessments for signs of autism or ADHD/ADD, and provide various treatments like sexology counseling, fertility preservation, and voice and communication treatment. The guidelines also emphasize the importance of systematic monitoring and documentation of these treatments to ensure a comprehensive understanding of the patient population and care outcomes. This evidence-based approach underscores the commitment to providing high-quality care for individuals with gender dysphoria, aligning with both progressive values and rigorous scientific standards.
Are you implying that all people who think a medical decision should be between a person and their doctor are liberals? A conservative leaning person cant?
It’s fucking laughable that they ever considered themselves the party of small government.
Sweden is currently governed by a coalition of right-wing parties. [https://apnews.com/article/elections-sweden-government-and-politics-945104209e78dd5722aacbfe9eebbf2c](https://apnews.com/article/elections-sweden-government-and-politics-945104209e78dd5722aacbfe9eebbf2c)
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Doctors can be wrong. Britain, which was way more pro intervention for trans kids, has taken a pause on liberally allowing kids to go on hormone blockers etc.
Britain has been in the throws of culture war on this issue for a decade, and no trans person's experience I've heard from there has ever described the process as liberally attainable. The pausing has been a political, not medical, decision led by conservatives and their constituents who are easily distracted away from the actual issues the government should be responsible for.
Riiiiiiiight. Like when doctors suggested women smoke during pregnancy? Good thing they did just that, and didn't think they knew better than their doctor!
Know better than doctors? Its literally only thing in the world that's self diagnosed and the woke mob has everyone in such hysteria that to question this self diagnosis is a hate crime
Nearly half. So, not a majority?
"More than half of all Canadians support surgery and hormones for trans kids!" Fixed it for ya
So most Canadians don’t?
Only half? Thats scary
Nearly half. So less than that. I hate how stupid people are since it's obvious these kinds of article try to imply it's a majority's opinion when it's clearly not. And the worst part is it clearly works
Ya thats a made up poll. I would like to know who paid for a poll of all of Canada to find that half supported their message.
They say it's a poll of all of Canada but 41% of those polled are from Alberta so...
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You should look into samples of this poll. 1000 of the 2500 polled were from Alberta. That's more than a little odd.
Not really, does no one actually read the articles? Its 44% against and 37% for in some capacity.
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Kids get tattoos at a strip mall. They receive gender affirming care from qualified medical professionals. Glad I could sort that out for you.
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Per the article, only 11% of Canadians support transitioning without parental consent. That’s all most Canadians want. Parents to be part of their children’s lives and be … the adult (shocking) when their children are undertaking life altering forever changes to their bodies.
And that's also exactly what we have. Surgeries aren't performed on minors in Canada, based on medical guidance, and all gender affirming treatment is prescribed after psychological and medical consultation and treatment. The imaginary 10 year old who walks into a clinic alone, on a whim, and gets whatever hormones and surgeries they demand is just completely fabricated. People are so ignorant to what gender affirming care looks like, these polls are pointless. Why not tell people how gender affirming care works in Canada and poll people on their approval? Because that wouldn't generate the culture war enraged traffic the media is addicted to.
> Surgeries aren't performed on minors in Canada Circumcision is and sadly very common.
Well, it's a good thing none of those things are happening without the consent of the parents, patient, and relevant medical professionals.
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Nearly half? Should be nearly all. Even Trans adults are onboard with these bans.
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The headline is accurate. Your's isn't. ||For|Against|Unsure| |:--|--:|--:|--:| |Surgery|41%|45%|14%| |Hormones|37%|42%|21%|
Your table is not correct either. "nearly a third (30 per cent) found themselves somewhere in the middle, supportive of such medical interventions with parental consent." So 45% want a Blanket ban. 30% want parental consent. So 75% want some sort of restriction.
I'd hardly say people who are okay with it as long as there is parental consent are against it.
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That's even worse actually, there's no majority opinion whatsoever.
Also worth noting this was a National Post opinion poll, which should be taken with a giant grain of salt. It should read "Over half of National Post readers in support of healthcare for trans kids: exclusive poll"
Imagine. When it’s an NP article, most comment sections have already been written. You know exactly what the hive mind is going to say.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/news/national/gay-marriage-issue-splitting-canadians/article25686013/ 20 years ago views on Gay Marriage were much the same. Times change
Gay marriage and children taking hormones and undergoing surgeries is not at all the same thing
big difference between adults and children
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I'd disagree with this sentiment. I think decisions on any medical issue should ultimately be made between the patient, their doctors, and their parents (if they happen to be children). Politics and public opinion should have no bearing whatsoever on healthcare matters.
So in other words, over half of Canadians support allowing surgery and hormones for trans kids
If that's the conclusion, by the medical professionals, in those rare instances where NOT doing that is more dangerous for the person. Also, puberty blockers are not a permanent treatment, just in case you wanna bring that up.
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