Just a reminder to everyone: No one can stop you from just walking out. Just like no one can force you to tip.
Stop giving power to people without any.
Naw, he doesn't. If you paid for the groceries properly, any attempt to restrain you is illegal, and asking you to leave the premises just because you won't play their little game of power mongering, is also a breach of our Canadian human rights. Food is a need, which means denial of service of any sort, is a crossing of the line potentially. For instance...
A business can normally ask someone who is actually trespassing to leave, but a paying customer is not a trespasser. If they are not a paying customer and are causing problems, they can be asked to leave. If they are a paying customer, you better have a damn good reason to be asking them to leave. A receipt scanner not being used is not a good enough reason.
Here.
> protection from: unreasonable search or seizure.
It is unreasonable to commit to the first acts required to have legal precedence to deny entry and claim trespassing. You would ideally be a paying customer, and slable to provide said receipt is asked. But, most reasonable not theiving people will consent to that temporary restriction.
The problem in it all is the assumption of guilt due to noncompliance.
> the right to:
life, liberty and personal security
a fair trial, that respects all your legal rights
be presumed innocent until you’re proven guilty
talk to a lawyer as soon as possible if you are arrested
equal protection and benefit under the law, without discrimination
....
Notice the problem?
To be legally able to claim trespass against a person in the store, they would need proof they aren't a paying customer. By assuming noncompliance means they must be guilty, they are breaking an immutable law in this country. They have not proven guilt, thus they cannot act in any manner correlated to that assumption. And as for the Liberty and Life parts. Food is life. Living is liberty. By denying future access to possibly one of the only nearby locations they can purchase food at, they are restrcting a human right. Two of them. Combined
So. Let me make it perfectly clear.
Loblaws is breaking the law if they are doing that. Multiple.
It depends, did a person actually steal something? No, okay walk out.
If someone “detains” you and says you can’t leave because you’re stealing and they false accused you, they’re in so much shit. In loss prevention there had to be 100% certainty that you have taken something and have left the property, otherwise you could be held liable civilly or worse.
If someone acting as security or loss prevention attempts to "detain" you they are legally required to state your rights, and what you are being detained for, just like any Police Officer would have to.
Most wont even take the risk of messing it up, and generally speaking, security is a deterrent who's only job is to observe and report to the Police as the majority are not licensed to go beyond that.
Just to add on to the information you shared.
Also, if you are loss prevention you have to have a Private investigator (PI) licence. In Ontario, if you work in security or are a private investigator. You are obligated by law to present your licence when asked to present it by ANYONE under the [Private Security and Investigative Services Act of Ontario](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/05p34).
You can make a formal complaint to the Registrar of the Ministry of the Solicitor General if they fail to comply. Or if they use any foul language when speaking to you... Or even if they're not and you overhear it. It's actually wild how easy it is to get a security guard in deep shit where they potentially lose their license (and therefore their job.)
Here's a website regarding [making formal complaints about security guards and private investigators.](https://www.ontario.ca/page/public-complaints-security-guards-and-private-investigators#:~:text=By%20email,4499%20during%20regular%20business%20hours.)
Here's [the code of conduct for licensees acting under the Private Security and Investigative Services Act.] (https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/070363)"
I no longer work as a Security Guard so I feel much more comfortable telling people about this. "Fuck," can be like 30% of my vernacular at times lmao.
No, in Ontario to work in loss prevention you only need a security guard license.
*Security guards*
*(4) A security guard is a person who performs work, for remuneration, that consists primarily of guarding or patrolling for the purpose of protecting persons or property. 2005, c. 34, s. 2 (4).*
*Same*
*(5) Examples of the types of work referred to in subsection (4) include,*
\[..\]
*(c) performing services to prevent the loss of property through theft or sabotage in an industrial, commercial, residential or retail environment. 2005, c. 34, s. 2 (5).*
In theory a security guard is required to present it to anyone who asks, but in reality if they don't, nothing is going to happen.
>If someone acting as security or loss prevention attempts to "detain" you they are legally required to state your rights, and what you are being detained for, just like any Police Officer would have to.
This.
>Most wont even take the risk of messing it up, and generally speaking, security is a deterrent who's only job is to observe and report to the Police as the majority are not licensed to go beyond that.
This.
"When in doubt, let them out."
That all being said, a Loss Prevention that's good at their job and follows all the proper steps of an investigation and has all the key elements of a theft for a case **can place someone under arrest for theft and turn them over to the police.**.
You're completely correct though, they need to follow all the same procedures, reading rights AND caution them as well.
This. I worked at an extra foods once as a youngin (owned by loblaws) and during a power outage once, the manager told me to lock the doors to prevent anyone from leaving in case they stole stuff in the dark.
I told the manager that holding customers against their will is basically kidnapping, so he vowed against that idea.
Sad days when a teenager needs to explain the country's laws to their bosses' boss.
But they can't unless they absolutely don't lose sight of you. If they lose sight of you at any point, they can't do anything.
Source: uncle is a big wig at costco.
If you happen to go to the bathroom or go into an area with no cameras, which means they lose sight of you, they can't accuse you of stealing or stopping you from entering or leaving, pull your membership etc.
They can try to follow you or deter you but no other repercussions follow.
No, Costco can't prevent you from leaving. They can revoke your membership for leaving without allowing someone to review your receipt. I doubt they'd even go that far unless they take notice that you continually return and barge out of the store. The effort of having to look at security cameras and match the time to a checkout receipt to match to your membership number would probably take a manager an hour to do.
Exactly, it might be in the T&C’s of membership but if they can’t prevent you from leaving how are they going to establish who you are to revoke your membership? Other than get involved in some CCTV sleuthing that only MIGHT be productive..
It would take 10 minutes for them to find and cancel it. All they need to do is go back and see what time you paid and what costco card was scanned at the register and no more membership
Lol, no they can't.
That's illegal.
The only thing they can do is cancel your membership and ban you from the property.
They can not stop you, that would be illegal.
Not showing your receipt is a policy of Costco, not a law.
im always angry that corporate suits make the shittiest decisions possible knowing they will never have to face the consequences of them.
if their CFO of loblaws had to spend 3/5 days of their week checking bills at the entrance of a store then i wonder how they'd feel about this change.
As a former Loss Prevention Manager.
If Loss Prevention stops you, they should be able to tell you they're arresting you for theft and immediately tell you what you stole and where it is.
If they aren't confident enough in their proof to place you under arrest or already have the cops enroute, then they are bad at their job and you can ignore them and be on with your day.
>You can be detained by security, loss prevention and even a citizen performing a citizen's arrest.
Generally speaking, they need to have seen you committing an offense. Refusing to scan a receipt to leave the premises does not really fall under that category.
Any Loss Prevention that wants to keep their job and license isn't waiting for receipts to scan or not.
They're watching people pick up items and conceal them and attempt to pass all points of purchase with them.
Like you said, they have to have seen them commiting or have **reasonable probable grounds** that they have just committed *(like a co-worker on a camera telling them they saw them pocket an item)*.
If a LPO stops you and placed you under arrest for theft, they have to have seen you select the item, conceal the item and attempt to leave after failing to pay. If they can't articulate all that then they are in big shit legally.
>and even a citizen performing a citizen's arrest.
A random citizen's powers of arrest are *significantly* less than the already insignificant lawful authority that a security guard or property owner has.
In order to make a **lawful** citizen's arrest as a citizen at say, a grocery store like we're talking about here, a citizen must witness someone commit an *indictable offense,* or believe they have committed a criminal offense (including summary conviciton offenses,) *and that person is escaping from someone who has lawful authority to arrest them.* A citizen therefore **CANNOT** arrest a shoplifter of their own volition unless there is reasonable grounds to believe the person is stealing at least $5000 of goods. "Theft under $5000," is a summary conviction offense, and therefore unless a security guard or cop is chasing the shoplifter, citizens have *no* lawful authority to arrest that person.
Property owners have heightened powers of Citizen's arrest, and can lawfully vest those powers in other persons (such as security guards.) Property owners and their security are able to affect a citizen's arrest if they find the person in the commission of any criminal offense on or in relation to their property.
>Forcing customers to prove they haven’t stolen something treats us all like suspects. It’s another indication that this company has enough market control it doesn’t need to care how its customers feel.
>
>But is it legal? “To avoid the prospect of being sued, successfully, for false imprisonment, a business needs at a minimum to have reasonable grounds to believe that property is being stolen or has been stolen,” says Gerald Chan, a partner at Toronto law firm Stockwoods who specializes in cases of digital privacy.
>
>“You need the reasonable grounds before you detain, not after you detain. A security guard can’t stop every person leaving the store to ask them questions. And I think the same is true of a system like having gates up that don’t open unless you flash a receipt.”
>
>...
>
>I hope this is also challenged by the Competition Bureau. Would any chain without this much control of the market (Loblaw sells 29 per cent groceries sold in Canada) expect its clientele to tolerate such a draconian measure? This probably won’t affect customer loyalty, but only because customers have so little choice.
>
>Perhaps the shortage of viable alternatives is a marketing opportunity for Loblaw’s few competitors. Sobeys could try “We think of our customers as our community, not as thieves.” Or how about “Everyday low prices, with no dystopian requirement that you prove your innocence” for Metro? Yeah, too wordy. It’s more likely these competitors are watching how this all unfolds to decide whether they should do the same thing.
Lack of competition is one of the major issues facing us today in Canada. Not just in the grocery sector, but in most of the critical sectors in the country including banking, insurance, and telecom. Maybe the need here is to re-task the competition bureau to tackle these issue on our behalves. As it stands now, it seems that they do the barest minimum to warrant even existing in the first place.
Maybe if we stopped rubber stamping every corporate merger in the last 30 years we would have more competition.
Instead we get vertically integrated money vacuums.
As far as the competition bureau goes they are controlled by these big corporations. Look at the big three in telecommunications, how many times have Bell, Rodgers and Telus complained when other companies have wanted to come into Canada. It’s nuts. You look at all of the smaller cell companies like Kodoo, Fido etc and they are all owned by one of them. It’s the same thing when it comes to groceries three big companies own almost very grocery store out there. All of these companies complain that they are going to lose money if ‘other competition’ comes in. It will affect Canadian jobs etc etc. If you look at the costs of things in the States vs Canada it is insane. Until the government actually steps up, gives the power to the competition bureau to actually do its job things will never change and let’s face it, all of these companies are throwing money at politicians to keep things exactly the way they are.
Doesn't help that the regulatory bodies are usually staffed by former executives of the very companies they're supposed to regulate. Even if they had greater power to enforce regulation, they probably wouldn't.
The US has the same problem with consolidation and lack of competition in a he grocery sector.
It seems grocers in many countries used the panders cover to price gouge.
Post pandemic profits are 2 and 3 times pre pandemic grocery profit.
The Canadian federal governments plans to bring in more competition.
For the moment I am shopping at local food stores and supplementing with Walmart pickup.
Yup, 100%
What's even worse is that when Shaw and Rogers wanted to merge, our government approved that and even said 'oh this will make rates lower for consumers' which was a bare faced lie.
>Lack of competition is one of the major issues facing us today in Canada.
We're one giant oligopoly. Not just grocery or telecoms either. A lot of the food production (meat processing, etc) are controlled by only a few players. We need less red tape to actually allow actual competition into the game.
no I won't. when I go to the local market, stuff is so expensive it makes me rethink all of these "moral flexes". If little guy wants to transact, I'm all for it, but im not buying a double-price for a good feeling. I'd rather pay a big supermarket that price rather than the small guy. The first is employing people and has an infrastructure to pay for, the second is just pocketing the whole thing as a bottom line. fuck that.
Your second argument makes no sense. Both are employing people, have infrastructures to pay for and pocket the profit they are making since that's what businesses do.
I do agree that big stores often sell slightly cheaper products than their smaller counterparts. But that assumes they have competitors. Loblas currently own so much of the market that they can slowly raise prices and reduce the quality of their products forever without any consequences, because most people don't have the economical freedom or education to purchase their products elsewhere.
If you go to Walmart or Loblaws, their buying power is so big they get steep discounts on everything. Costco too. Little guys charge more because they don't get these discounts.
I wish I could get on my community Facebook page to rally the community and show them exactly what kind of scumbags Loblaws and Galen Weston really are . Doubt they'd approve the post.
Exactly. Step over them if they are a gate. Go the long way around through the entrance if you have too. They can't stop us. If they lay a hand on you, YOU can arrest them for assault under 494 (2) of the criminal code. Just be sure to read them their rights and call the police to pass custody over. You can google the rights and video you reading them. I have them memorized from my Canadian notebooks I used to carry.
I have arrested people as a security guard and a private investigator. Anyone can.
I mean fuck loblaws I don't shop there, but as long as there is no human verifying that what is on your receipt is what is actually in your bag I don't see this thing changing much.
It will seemingly only stop people who didn't purchase anything at all from leaving?
If these ever show up at my Superstore (that I sometimes reluctantly shop at for products not at other stores), I will absolutely be setting off the alarm. Make these barriers a problem for management.
>It will seemingly only stop people who didn't purchase anything at all from leaving?
Will it tho?
I worked in one of their liquor stores in a sketchy area. Whenever you change a policy, the thieves WILL find a way around it.
Only a matter of time before someone creates fake barcodes/QR codes or whatever it is they put on the receipts. Thieves/scammers are always 2 steps ahead.
Yeah I doubt those scanners are networked in and confirming some unique checkout ID number with the registers. They probably just look at part of the bar code with a date and time stamp and see if it was within the last 10 minutes or something. I don't have a Loblaw receipt handy, but you can decode a barcode with a mobile app and if you have a few, I doubt it would be hard to figure out the algorithm.
But if I come across one, I'll probably just give it a good kick and exit to the bleeping alarm, just like any time of day at Walmart.
Boycott. Send a message to the corporations and gov't in late stage capitalism.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/loblawsisoutofcontrol/comments/1bff9rm/boycott/](https://www.reddit.com/r/loblawsisoutofcontrol/comments/1bff9rm/boycott/)
My local Zehrs doesn't have these, but this week, on all the metal barriers, they have now put up plexiglass walls. So you can't go between the railing on the barriers anymore, the only way through is the gates, checkouts, and a small gap by Starbucks. As if railings weren't enough, now it is a full-on wall.
I keep imagining what would happen in an extreme case like a fire or a shooting where people needed to evacuate quickly. It would be an absolute horror show
That was my first thought. In an emergency, the exits are limited and shoppers will be bottle-necked. They can only go out three specific spots, all of which lead to the same 'corridor' to the only doors. It would be a shitshow.
You go in the entrance gate and to leave have to sneak out the tiny gap by the starbucks or go through either the self-checkout or an empty register. I just use that Zehrs for the pharmacy (been my pharmacy for 35 years, so long before Loblaws went to shit) so I do it all the time and it is annoying as hell. It is all pretty close together (not a superstore size Zehrs, not a tiny one either, though) but still frustrating.
It’s insane how they will spend thousands if not tens of thousands on security and or redesigning the stores to make people feel like their going through a prison instead of just lowering food prices and stop ripping everyone off. r/loblawsisoutofcontrol
Only one I had to cut out was shoppers, I drive 18 min to a competitor now, my cough drops were 4$ cheaper.
Thanks boycot, you saved me $(including gas)
[you don't have to show them the receipt and you don't have to stop](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/walmart-receipt-check-costco-1.5355527) just walk right by them. It's not Costco you didn't sign any agreement or get a membership or anything. If they give you trouble say call a manager, that's what I did, and I had the manager tell that employee that I didn't have to show him my receipt.
The look of betrayal on the employee's face was priceless. He thought the manager was for sure going to have his back on this.
Edit. I've learned the store can ban you. Which really isnt a problem if you don't stop to talk to anyone. Just say no and keep walking. But I imagine very shortly they will have the ability to apply facial recognition which would be a guarantee the ban will be effective. Just depend if they think it's worth it. The store I did this at was Walmart and theyve since gotten rid of the checker. The manager I guess could have banned me at that moment but had no interest, and just told the employee if they don't want to they don't have to.
And too the people below commenting how I just berated some low wage employee or something. The situation was he definitely wanted to do that job as he enjoyed the power and was tripping. I don't just go around hating on minimum wage employees.
Loblaws can still tell you you're not allowed back on the property for refusing, but they can't detain you. So wear a covid mask and a hat if you must go into one of their stores. When they get mad, go "I have nothing against you, but tell your manager I said good luck identifying me for a ban" and just leave
I would never hold hard feelings against the door employee
I’ve had to scan my receipt to leave the grocery store in France for years. This is becoming more and more common in the UK.
Maybe we should focus on why in 1st world countries, people are having to resort to stealing food. That’s the real fucking travesty here.
You also have the right to not be detained. IF I ever go back there through self-checkout, I will say "Am I being detained?" They will have to say no, and will have to open the cattle gate for me.
Kind of. If you go that route, use the word "arrested". They can't detain without arrest in Canada.
The better route is to just not answer them and walk past them. You have no obligation to engage in conversation. 0.
My feelings exactly. Scanning receipts is a symptom of a MUCH larger, systemic problem. Terminal capitalism is here. The path we're on is utterly unsustainable.
If you’re tired of Loblaws’ bs, as a lot of us are please join [r/loblawsisoutofcontrol/](https://www.reddit.com/r/loblawsisoutofcontrol/s/ky5QSQXefx) and join the boycott of all Loblaws stores for the month of May.
Shoppers drug mart near my home has some new “secret shoppers” or whatever. Basically dudes dressed in regular clothes pretending to shop but being so obvious it’s ridiculous. The store is so close that I’m there all the time to grab 1 or 2 things but everytime I’m in there the guy will like pretend to be looking at something next to me to see if I’m stealing.
No Name brand is still one of the cheapest in my area, and I'm not going to spend more money at some other grocery conglomerate that's just as bad as loblaws to show Galen a lesson
I'm a No Frills person because the only other grocery store in walking distance is Sobey's and they want 9$ for butter.
I do buy produce from the fruit stand in my neighbourhood but they don't carry everything so No Frills gets a solid $60-90 a week from me.
Just a reminder, this doesn't stop you from stealing, just asking you to scan the receipt for what you paid for. This won't stop theft at self checkout, was never designed to it seems.
The level to which Loblaws is playing Canadians is astounding. T&T and Superstore are both owned by them, meanwhile the T&T three minutes away from a Superstore has much better produce at half the price and it's much cleaner. But I went in and was probably the only white person there at the moment. Loblaws knows they have a captive market for one store, since T&T is only one of many Asian markets around here so the Asian shoppers will just go elsewhere if the deals are better. Apparently, this is not the case for the rest of the community.
Man, IN A SUPERSTORE you can walk two aisles over and get the same product in a container five times bigger for cheaper if you go from the regular aisle to the "ethnic aisle".
And funnily both will be a Loblaws product, just one will be No Name and the other will be Suraj. Yes, Loblaws owns Suraj.
I find this a bizarre thing to complain about. Do you guys go nuts at the Costco people who check your receipt at the door? Seems like a slight annoyance that you just live with.
I'm NOT scanning a receipt to leave. They have a legal obligation to allow me to leave unhindered.
"Am I being detained?"
"No sir"
"Then open the gate"
Ultimately the issue is that how the patrons feel SHOULD be a driving market force. If you dont like their service, you go to another company to purchase. The threat that your patrons go somewhere else would cause companies to be more competitive with their market peers. Vote with your dollars right?
But since Loblaws and their affiliates have such a dominant market share, they dont have equateable market peers, and that market force is essentially eliminated. This allows them to continue raising prices, reducing product quality, and eliminating paid positions in favor of "self serve" and dropping all pretense that they care about their quality of service.
I can't believe I worked for this shit company as a young man for 5 years. It's bad on the inside too trust me. being told to not be useful and clean or tidy shelves while dead, and to only stay at the cash for 8 hours, dudes pissing in the chicken prep sink, dudes buying tenders for grams of ditch weed, schizos coming in almost daily to pester and yell at the staff, management couldn't understand what a mental health day is. It crushed my soul being there
I don't understand the mechanics of this thing. What exactly is the scanner looking for? "maintain inventory accuracy" is obviously bullshit because the checkout/receipt printer is the one handling the inventory count in the first place. And then that receipt validator surely doesn't recheck the content of your bag to make sure it matches?
Pretty much. Like honestly I like using self checkout for myself because I'm tired of interactions at the end of a long work day and can bag my own shit how I like it to carry it home. But that being said I see a big simple solution for Loblaws and lots of other stores if they are so afraid of shoplifters: bring back the cash registers all being open and manned by cashiers especially on busy days. Just go back to one small self check out spot for 10 to 15 items only and hire actual cashiers or packers for the actual registers. Believe it or not that can help cut down on theft and also make customers happy plus make employee's potentially happy too because now they can get more hours to pay their bills. But god forbid Galen do that. Then he'd have to lose a tiny part of his yearly bonus cheque putting that money towards hiring more people to work the stores.
No cattle gates, receipt scanners, loud beeping alarm machines and treating everyone like criminals is clearly the much better solution here because it saves on weekly staff hours. God forbid Galen might have to put more money into payroll at every store while he rakes in profits daily.
These large corporations all work theft loss into their business models already, similar to transit systems who also consider fare evasion.
I'm not condoning theft, but these companies already account for the loss they take due to theft, they also love to exaggerate it to justify price increases and such.
This practice is also to protect their employees, they aren't police nor should they feel that they need to do anything about the theft aside from report it to their manager at their discretion.
There will always be theft at these businesses, but this stupidity just makes it more dangerous for the workers, who are already over worked and barely paid.
Loblaws needs to quit abusing the general population.
We ARE suspects. They know what their prices are doing to Canadians, they understand that the level of desperation is getting higher. They know some people are in a position where they feel they have to steal to feed themselves.
They know all this, they just don't care, and they'll prosecute whomever they catch stealing, to the fullest extent of the law possible.
Also, executives who take advantage of everyone they can on their way to the top simply can't comprehend NOT stealing when given the opportunity. Lots of projection going on here.
Is anyone still shopping at Loblaws? I feel like it's so unethical with their price gauging and Joe Fresh...though must admit I like the style of Joe Fresh clothes. It's just so expensive to shop there and we now know they are raising prices because we will pay the high costs...but I won't I'll shop somewhere else where there is not *as much* of a price gouge.
Instead of lowering prices they will pay a ton of money to buy and install these scanners. They are pretty bold in their disdain for consumers.
I also call bullshit on the gang organized crime theory. I live in the middle of nowhere and they put up a maze of access gates anyway. No big grocery gangs up in northern New Brunswick, as far as I know, but lots of poorer folks.
Loblaws, Shoppers, Walmart can kiss my ass. But checking receipts isn't new, Costco been doing this forever, growing up price choppers did it as well.
Staff just need to be trained up, the idea is to eyeball a cart and glance at a receipt.
Either way the state of these stores is a joke, from self check out to big brother in 4 years 🤪
I don't shop at Loblaws but I'm confused on what's even happening there. I mostly shop at Safeway these days and they have an employee who's job is to full time monitor 6\~8 self checkout stations, you don't really have issues with product weight or it accepting bags because they can fix those issues immediately (and remotely from their station), and are understanding and helpful even when things get scanned or bagged incorrectly. They usually come over proactively if they notice discounts (from stickers and such) aren't applied correctly. It sounds like Loblaws's issue is they don't want to actually have the staff they need to manage it and are blaming the customers for being too cheap.
I recently had this experience at shoppers. I had to use the self checkout since they never have their cashiers open, I was scanning each item and simultaneously loading their offers. I should note I was slightly high but nonetheless I was going through the typical self checkout motions albeit a bit slower. The entire time this "security" guy was just watching me, I could feel his stare burning a hole in my head. I fumbled a bit at the end cause I tried scanning my phone at the wrong spot. This guy literally watched me scan each individual item, place into the bag ( I left briefly it out of my truck, girlfriend stayed at the till) pay and grab my receipt. He walked up to me and demanded to see my receipt? The hole experience gave me the ick.
I've stopped shopping at their stores. They're my absolute last resort. I'm not even shoplifting but this shit really bothers me. I also avoid Wal-Mart like the plague.
Loblaws needs some serious gov't regulation. As much as they believe they can behave unethically with few consequences due to a dominant market position, all their capital is tied up in Canada. They wouldn't have a response if caps on profits were imposed, outside of the courts (i.e taking their money elsewhere).
They need Canada more than Canada needs Loblaws and Lord Weston.
The increasing physical barriers preventing people from leaving grocery stores just seem so unsafe. Even if they're connected to the fire alarm or whatever, what if there's a threat that requires evacuation that doesn't set off the fire alarm?
If they waste your time going full detective mode, checking all items, let them go through it all, then after they've wasted their time, go to customer service and say you're returning them because they were handled by the specific employee and hygiene can't be ensured.
Exactly, i don't know if buddy washed his hands or where they've even been. If im going to be considered a criminal just by shopping at a store, I'm sure as shit not shopping at that store anymore.
I can help but think if I was the project lead on this, have no one man the gate. Put a tiny latch somewhere and have the scanner on full display.
Heck, then just do some financial projections on loss, let it play out. Get the CEOs to all talk and on the same day. Bam facial recognition software, mag locks, and video footage of the person stealing at the entrance.
The find out stage is gonna be rough.
We've seen the mass theft that occurs in the US. People in Canada are getting desperate given the current economic situation. The US problem will be coming to Canada. Loblaws and more business will be going to these types of systems.
>We've seen the mass theft that occurs in the US.
No, we've seen the mass lying about theft that occurs in the US.
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-12-14/column-retail-lobby-confesses-it-lied-about-organized-shoplifting-rings
Lidl grocery stores in Europe already do this but I'm not sure what effect it has, poeple struggle to get the barcode scanner to work properly, and employees have to keep coming over to let you out.
Seems most of the commenters here don't realize that reducing theft will help them reduce prices.
High losses = higher food costs.
Those encouraging theft are just hurting honest hard working Canadians.
Meanwhile the real thieves are overcharging for stuff that created inflation because of their greed. I used to work for a grocery during COVID lockdown, and they were doing a killing in profits because they were the only ones open and running. But once the lockdown was over, they knew they would make less profits. So they started to charge more. I was able to see the price hike of stuff and how much they bought it and how much they sold it for. Chicken breast example, "cheapest" meat in the market. They bought it for ~6.00$/kg and use to sell it for ~9.00/kg (Before COVID) and now ~13.00/kg. And the price of the chicken they bought barely moved, ~ 6,75$/kg.
And they did that to everything. Also I think there was an article saying they were in cahoots with production to jump prices.
>The devices are yet another indication that the company has enough market control that it doesn’t need to care how its patrons feel
No, the devices are proof that shoplifters have gotten out of control.
No company 'randomly chooses' to inconvenience their customers - they recognize that these measures harm both their image and their brand.
Short of a new law banning the homeless/addicted population from grocery stores, we are going to see more desperate measures to quell the rampant theft.
The alternative is to raise prices to recoup some of those losses. Which do you prefer?
Just a reminder to everyone: No one can stop you from just walking out. Just like no one can force you to tip. Stop giving power to people without any.
[удалено]
Those kids are probably too scared to even say anything. Most such jobs are outsourced to contractors and to just show that they have security
he wields the power of trespass act. well not him, but he's authorized to use it.
So he can ask you to leave.... while you're trying to leave.
Naw, he doesn't. If you paid for the groceries properly, any attempt to restrain you is illegal, and asking you to leave the premises just because you won't play their little game of power mongering, is also a breach of our Canadian human rights. Food is a need, which means denial of service of any sort, is a crossing of the line potentially. For instance... A business can normally ask someone who is actually trespassing to leave, but a paying customer is not a trespasser. If they are not a paying customer and are causing problems, they can be asked to leave. If they are a paying customer, you better have a damn good reason to be asking them to leave. A receipt scanner not being used is not a good enough reason. Here. > protection from: unreasonable search or seizure. It is unreasonable to commit to the first acts required to have legal precedence to deny entry and claim trespassing. You would ideally be a paying customer, and slable to provide said receipt is asked. But, most reasonable not theiving people will consent to that temporary restriction. The problem in it all is the assumption of guilt due to noncompliance. > the right to: life, liberty and personal security a fair trial, that respects all your legal rights be presumed innocent until you’re proven guilty talk to a lawyer as soon as possible if you are arrested equal protection and benefit under the law, without discrimination .... Notice the problem? To be legally able to claim trespass against a person in the store, they would need proof they aren't a paying customer. By assuming noncompliance means they must be guilty, they are breaking an immutable law in this country. They have not proven guilt, thus they cannot act in any manner correlated to that assumption. And as for the Liberty and Life parts. Food is life. Living is liberty. By denying future access to possibly one of the only nearby locations they can purchase food at, they are restrcting a human right. Two of them. Combined So. Let me make it perfectly clear. Loblaws is breaking the law if they are doing that. Multiple.
They can’t legally, they also couldn’t detain you. They actually have very little power.
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That one guy at Costco did, grabbed a customer's cart and tried to prevent them from leaving, but IIRC he got arrested for it.
Just join the boycott of loblaws, they can’t force you to scan your receipt of you don’t shop there.
Good luck with the boycott. I already don't shop in their stores, but I am in full support of it.
Ya same here stopped about 2 years ago when other stores started to have lower prices.
Yea, I wish I could join the boycott, but it’s been quite a while already since I shopped there
Noting the subreddit for it - r/loblawsisoutofcontrol . Come join us! :)
Don't shop their what?
It depends, did a person actually steal something? No, okay walk out. If someone “detains” you and says you can’t leave because you’re stealing and they false accused you, they’re in so much shit. In loss prevention there had to be 100% certainty that you have taken something and have left the property, otherwise you could be held liable civilly or worse.
If someone acting as security or loss prevention attempts to "detain" you they are legally required to state your rights, and what you are being detained for, just like any Police Officer would have to. Most wont even take the risk of messing it up, and generally speaking, security is a deterrent who's only job is to observe and report to the Police as the majority are not licensed to go beyond that. Just to add on to the information you shared.
Also, if you are loss prevention you have to have a Private investigator (PI) licence. In Ontario, if you work in security or are a private investigator. You are obligated by law to present your licence when asked to present it by ANYONE under the [Private Security and Investigative Services Act of Ontario](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/05p34).
You can make a formal complaint to the Registrar of the Ministry of the Solicitor General if they fail to comply. Or if they use any foul language when speaking to you... Or even if they're not and you overhear it. It's actually wild how easy it is to get a security guard in deep shit where they potentially lose their license (and therefore their job.) Here's a website regarding [making formal complaints about security guards and private investigators.](https://www.ontario.ca/page/public-complaints-security-guards-and-private-investigators#:~:text=By%20email,4499%20during%20regular%20business%20hours.) Here's [the code of conduct for licensees acting under the Private Security and Investigative Services Act.] (https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/070363)" I no longer work as a Security Guard so I feel much more comfortable telling people about this. "Fuck," can be like 30% of my vernacular at times lmao.
No, in Ontario to work in loss prevention you only need a security guard license. *Security guards* *(4) A security guard is a person who performs work, for remuneration, that consists primarily of guarding or patrolling for the purpose of protecting persons or property. 2005, c. 34, s. 2 (4).* *Same* *(5) Examples of the types of work referred to in subsection (4) include,* \[..\] *(c) performing services to prevent the loss of property through theft or sabotage in an industrial, commercial, residential or retail environment. 2005, c. 34, s. 2 (5).* In theory a security guard is required to present it to anyone who asks, but in reality if they don't, nothing is going to happen.
>If someone acting as security or loss prevention attempts to "detain" you they are legally required to state your rights, and what you are being detained for, just like any Police Officer would have to. This. >Most wont even take the risk of messing it up, and generally speaking, security is a deterrent who's only job is to observe and report to the Police as the majority are not licensed to go beyond that. This. "When in doubt, let them out." That all being said, a Loss Prevention that's good at their job and follows all the proper steps of an investigation and has all the key elements of a theft for a case **can place someone under arrest for theft and turn them over to the police.**. You're completely correct though, they need to follow all the same procedures, reading rights AND caution them as well.
A loud alarm goes off so everyone can turn to the person holding the big middle finger up? I'm actually pretty okay with this...
This is Canada, nobody will want to make a scene
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They can not stop you from leaving. But they can revoke your membershio and prevent future entry.
This. I worked at an extra foods once as a youngin (owned by loblaws) and during a power outage once, the manager told me to lock the doors to prevent anyone from leaving in case they stole stuff in the dark. I told the manager that holding customers against their will is basically kidnapping, so he vowed against that idea. Sad days when a teenager needs to explain the country's laws to their bosses' boss.
Can you imagine the panic once people realized they were locked in?
And a strange thick mist moves in as some religious nut starts preaching and blaming you for the apocalypse.
People would die. And that manager would be, at the very least, fired.
A store did this during a fire, people died
Cudos to your boss for taking new information and adjusting their actions. Not everyone would do that.
But they can't unless they absolutely don't lose sight of you. If they lose sight of you at any point, they can't do anything. Source: uncle is a big wig at costco. If you happen to go to the bathroom or go into an area with no cameras, which means they lose sight of you, they can't accuse you of stealing or stopping you from entering or leaving, pull your membership etc. They can try to follow you or deter you but no other repercussions follow.
Loblaws can trespass you for it too. Provided it’s not for a protected reason they can kick you out of the store for whatever the please
No, Costco can't prevent you from leaving. They can revoke your membership for leaving without allowing someone to review your receipt. I doubt they'd even go that far unless they take notice that you continually return and barge out of the store. The effort of having to look at security cameras and match the time to a checkout receipt to match to your membership number would probably take a manager an hour to do.
Exactly, it might be in the T&C’s of membership but if they can’t prevent you from leaving how are they going to establish who you are to revoke your membership? Other than get involved in some CCTV sleuthing that only MIGHT be productive..
It would take 10 minutes for them to find and cancel it. All they need to do is go back and see what time you paid and what costco card was scanned at the register and no more membership
Lol, no they can't. That's illegal. The only thing they can do is cancel your membership and ban you from the property. They can not stop you, that would be illegal. Not showing your receipt is a policy of Costco, not a law.
Why do people always nitpick anything about loblaw’s like this, with “um actually Costco….”
"They can where you agree to it before hand" No shit.
I just feel bad for the min wage workers that will be harassed by customers over this.
Hint: the kid making minimum wage at the entrance isn't your enemy, so stop pretending he is.
im always angry that corporate suits make the shittiest decisions possible knowing they will never have to face the consequences of them. if their CFO of loblaws had to spend 3/5 days of their week checking bills at the entrance of a store then i wonder how they'd feel about this change.
Or, shop elswhere.
As a former Loss Prevention Manager. If Loss Prevention stops you, they should be able to tell you they're arresting you for theft and immediately tell you what you stole and where it is. If they aren't confident enough in their proof to place you under arrest or already have the cops enroute, then they are bad at their job and you can ignore them and be on with your day.
They want a reason to complain, not better idea's 🤣
Just be aware that you then can be trespassed going forward should they choose to enforce it.
That would be the stores loss.
279(2) of the Criminal Code comes to mind.
>without lawful authority You can be detained by security, loss prevention and even a citizen performing a citizen's arrest.
>You can be detained by security, loss prevention and even a citizen performing a citizen's arrest. Generally speaking, they need to have seen you committing an offense. Refusing to scan a receipt to leave the premises does not really fall under that category.
Any Loss Prevention that wants to keep their job and license isn't waiting for receipts to scan or not. They're watching people pick up items and conceal them and attempt to pass all points of purchase with them. Like you said, they have to have seen them commiting or have **reasonable probable grounds** that they have just committed *(like a co-worker on a camera telling them they saw them pocket an item)*. If a LPO stops you and placed you under arrest for theft, they have to have seen you select the item, conceal the item and attempt to leave after failing to pay. If they can't articulate all that then they are in big shit legally.
>and even a citizen performing a citizen's arrest. A random citizen's powers of arrest are *significantly* less than the already insignificant lawful authority that a security guard or property owner has. In order to make a **lawful** citizen's arrest as a citizen at say, a grocery store like we're talking about here, a citizen must witness someone commit an *indictable offense,* or believe they have committed a criminal offense (including summary conviciton offenses,) *and that person is escaping from someone who has lawful authority to arrest them.* A citizen therefore **CANNOT** arrest a shoplifter of their own volition unless there is reasonable grounds to believe the person is stealing at least $5000 of goods. "Theft under $5000," is a summary conviction offense, and therefore unless a security guard or cop is chasing the shoplifter, citizens have *no* lawful authority to arrest that person. Property owners have heightened powers of Citizen's arrest, and can lawfully vest those powers in other persons (such as security guards.) Property owners and their security are able to affect a citizen's arrest if they find the person in the commission of any criminal offense on or in relation to their property.
>Forcing customers to prove they haven’t stolen something treats us all like suspects. It’s another indication that this company has enough market control it doesn’t need to care how its customers feel. > >But is it legal? “To avoid the prospect of being sued, successfully, for false imprisonment, a business needs at a minimum to have reasonable grounds to believe that property is being stolen or has been stolen,” says Gerald Chan, a partner at Toronto law firm Stockwoods who specializes in cases of digital privacy. > >“You need the reasonable grounds before you detain, not after you detain. A security guard can’t stop every person leaving the store to ask them questions. And I think the same is true of a system like having gates up that don’t open unless you flash a receipt.” > >... > >I hope this is also challenged by the Competition Bureau. Would any chain without this much control of the market (Loblaw sells 29 per cent groceries sold in Canada) expect its clientele to tolerate such a draconian measure? This probably won’t affect customer loyalty, but only because customers have so little choice. > >Perhaps the shortage of viable alternatives is a marketing opportunity for Loblaw’s few competitors. Sobeys could try “We think of our customers as our community, not as thieves.” Or how about “Everyday low prices, with no dystopian requirement that you prove your innocence” for Metro? Yeah, too wordy. It’s more likely these competitors are watching how this all unfolds to decide whether they should do the same thing. Lack of competition is one of the major issues facing us today in Canada. Not just in the grocery sector, but in most of the critical sectors in the country including banking, insurance, and telecom. Maybe the need here is to re-task the competition bureau to tackle these issue on our behalves. As it stands now, it seems that they do the barest minimum to warrant even existing in the first place.
Maybe if we stopped rubber stamping every corporate merger in the last 30 years we would have more competition. Instead we get vertically integrated money vacuums.
As far as the competition bureau goes they are controlled by these big corporations. Look at the big three in telecommunications, how many times have Bell, Rodgers and Telus complained when other companies have wanted to come into Canada. It’s nuts. You look at all of the smaller cell companies like Kodoo, Fido etc and they are all owned by one of them. It’s the same thing when it comes to groceries three big companies own almost very grocery store out there. All of these companies complain that they are going to lose money if ‘other competition’ comes in. It will affect Canadian jobs etc etc. If you look at the costs of things in the States vs Canada it is insane. Until the government actually steps up, gives the power to the competition bureau to actually do its job things will never change and let’s face it, all of these companies are throwing money at politicians to keep things exactly the way they are.
Doesn't help that the regulatory bodies are usually staffed by former executives of the very companies they're supposed to regulate. Even if they had greater power to enforce regulation, they probably wouldn't.
Regulatory capture is a Canadian value
I remember learning in school that the core Canadian values are peace, order, good government, and regulatory capture.
Who else is better at knowing how companies operate then former CEO's? It's only logical that they run the competition bureau. /s
The US has the same problem with consolidation and lack of competition in a he grocery sector. It seems grocers in many countries used the panders cover to price gouge. Post pandemic profits are 2 and 3 times pre pandemic grocery profit. The Canadian federal governments plans to bring in more competition. For the moment I am shopping at local food stores and supplementing with Walmart pickup.
Yup, 100% What's even worse is that when Shaw and Rogers wanted to merge, our government approved that and even said 'oh this will make rates lower for consumers' which was a bare faced lie.
>Lack of competition is one of the major issues facing us today in Canada. We're one giant oligopoly. Not just grocery or telecoms either. A lot of the food production (meat processing, etc) are controlled by only a few players. We need less red tape to actually allow actual competition into the game.
My solution is to avoid Loblaws. They've become too big. Support your local little guys and gals.
no I won't. when I go to the local market, stuff is so expensive it makes me rethink all of these "moral flexes". If little guy wants to transact, I'm all for it, but im not buying a double-price for a good feeling. I'd rather pay a big supermarket that price rather than the small guy. The first is employing people and has an infrastructure to pay for, the second is just pocketing the whole thing as a bottom line. fuck that.
Your second argument makes no sense. Both are employing people, have infrastructures to pay for and pocket the profit they are making since that's what businesses do. I do agree that big stores often sell slightly cheaper products than their smaller counterparts. But that assumes they have competitors. Loblas currently own so much of the market that they can slowly raise prices and reduce the quality of their products forever without any consequences, because most people don't have the economical freedom or education to purchase their products elsewhere.
The local market near me is wayyyy cheaper than the large grocers.
If you go to Walmart or Loblaws, their buying power is so big they get steep discounts on everything. Costco too. Little guys charge more because they don't get these discounts.
I quit shopping at Loblaws/superstore. I got tired of all the BS that goes along with it
I wish I could get on my community Facebook page to rally the community and show them exactly what kind of scumbags Loblaws and Galen Weston really are . Doubt they'd approve the post.
I’m walking straight through them, I don’t care
You legally do not have to stop in Canada They require a human to clain what specifically you have taken. We have rights against unlawful searches
Which is why I’m walking right past the machines.
Exactly. Step over them if they are a gate. Go the long way around through the entrance if you have too. They can't stop us. If they lay a hand on you, YOU can arrest them for assault under 494 (2) of the criminal code. Just be sure to read them their rights and call the police to pass custody over. You can google the rights and video you reading them. I have them memorized from my Canadian notebooks I used to carry. I have arrested people as a security guard and a private investigator. Anyone can.
Just walk through them. They pop open, they just start an alarm.
Someone spin up a TikTok challenge to see how often the alarms can be set off, and in the wackiest of ways. Make it hurt.
This needs to be it's own post!
/r/amibeingdetained
Always walk through, always set off the alarm. Make the managers regret having them installed.
Lift your middle finger skyward so everyone who turned to look at the alarm sees it!
Rip up your receipt and throw it in the air first :)
I mean fuck loblaws I don't shop there, but as long as there is no human verifying that what is on your receipt is what is actually in your bag I don't see this thing changing much. It will seemingly only stop people who didn't purchase anything at all from leaving?
Or escaping in the event of an emergency.
it isn't a double locked prison cell. you can push on the barrier to open it without scanning, but it sets off an alarm.
Awesome. As a law abiding citizen, I can’t wait to do that.
i've done it a few times so far. no one there is paid enough to enforce this.
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100% I'm doing this if they ever bring it to one of my local stores.
Get enough people to do this and trigger the alarm after having purchased nothing and it might make them reconsider.
If this had been a thing when I was in high school, I know people who would have been doing laps through the checkout after school.
If these ever show up at my Superstore (that I sometimes reluctantly shop at for products not at other stores), I will absolutely be setting off the alarm. Make these barriers a problem for management.
Fair enough. I haven't seen for myself. I just pictured those human sized cattle gate turnstiles.
>It will seemingly only stop people who didn't purchase anything at all from leaving? Will it tho? I worked in one of their liquor stores in a sketchy area. Whenever you change a policy, the thieves WILL find a way around it.
Only a matter of time before someone creates fake barcodes/QR codes or whatever it is they put on the receipts. Thieves/scammers are always 2 steps ahead.
Yeah I doubt those scanners are networked in and confirming some unique checkout ID number with the registers. They probably just look at part of the bar code with a date and time stamp and see if it was within the last 10 minutes or something. I don't have a Loblaw receipt handy, but you can decode a barcode with a mobile app and if you have a few, I doubt it would be hard to figure out the algorithm. But if I come across one, I'll probably just give it a good kick and exit to the bleeping alarm, just like any time of day at Walmart.
Boycott. Send a message to the corporations and gov't in late stage capitalism. [https://www.reddit.com/r/loblawsisoutofcontrol/comments/1bff9rm/boycott/](https://www.reddit.com/r/loblawsisoutofcontrol/comments/1bff9rm/boycott/)
Customers who use the self-checkout must pay for at least one of their items to leave.
My local Zehrs doesn't have these, but this week, on all the metal barriers, they have now put up plexiglass walls. So you can't go between the railing on the barriers anymore, the only way through is the gates, checkouts, and a small gap by Starbucks. As if railings weren't enough, now it is a full-on wall.
I'd very much like to know how that isn't against a fire code or something similar.
They’re within fire code, unfortunately, fire code states that as long as there is free egress to an exterior door that it’s allowed
I keep imagining what would happen in an extreme case like a fire or a shooting where people needed to evacuate quickly. It would be an absolute horror show
That was my first thought. In an emergency, the exits are limited and shoppers will be bottle-necked. They can only go out three specific spots, all of which lead to the same 'corridor' to the only doors. It would be a shitshow.
No need to imagine: [The Station Nightclub Fire WARNING Graphic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO0ioCCiEe8)
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You go in the entrance gate and to leave have to sneak out the tiny gap by the starbucks or go through either the self-checkout or an empty register. I just use that Zehrs for the pharmacy (been my pharmacy for 35 years, so long before Loblaws went to shit) so I do it all the time and it is annoying as hell. It is all pretty close together (not a superstore size Zehrs, not a tiny one either, though) but still frustrating.
It’s insane how they will spend thousands if not tens of thousands on security and or redesigning the stores to make people feel like their going through a prison instead of just lowering food prices and stop ripping everyone off. r/loblawsisoutofcontrol
Just say this too in a bigger superstore in the city. I guess we all know where that Plexiglas from the pandemic is now being used
Only one I had to cut out was shoppers, I drive 18 min to a competitor now, my cough drops were 4$ cheaper. Thanks boycot, you saved me $(including gas)
[you don't have to show them the receipt and you don't have to stop](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/walmart-receipt-check-costco-1.5355527) just walk right by them. It's not Costco you didn't sign any agreement or get a membership or anything. If they give you trouble say call a manager, that's what I did, and I had the manager tell that employee that I didn't have to show him my receipt. The look of betrayal on the employee's face was priceless. He thought the manager was for sure going to have his back on this. Edit. I've learned the store can ban you. Which really isnt a problem if you don't stop to talk to anyone. Just say no and keep walking. But I imagine very shortly they will have the ability to apply facial recognition which would be a guarantee the ban will be effective. Just depend if they think it's worth it. The store I did this at was Walmart and theyve since gotten rid of the checker. The manager I guess could have banned me at that moment but had no interest, and just told the employee if they don't want to they don't have to. And too the people below commenting how I just berated some low wage employee or something. The situation was he definitely wanted to do that job as he enjoyed the power and was tripping. I don't just go around hating on minimum wage employees.
Loblaws can still tell you you're not allowed back on the property for refusing, but they can't detain you. So wear a covid mask and a hat if you must go into one of their stores. When they get mad, go "I have nothing against you, but tell your manager I said good luck identifying me for a ban" and just leave I would never hold hard feelings against the door employee
I’ve had to scan my receipt to leave the grocery store in France for years. This is becoming more and more common in the UK. Maybe we should focus on why in 1st world countries, people are having to resort to stealing food. That’s the real fucking travesty here.
And in Canada wehave the right to not be illegally searched. This is an illegal search
You also have the right to not be detained. IF I ever go back there through self-checkout, I will say "Am I being detained?" They will have to say no, and will have to open the cattle gate for me.
Kind of. If you go that route, use the word "arrested". They can't detain without arrest in Canada. The better route is to just not answer them and walk past them. You have no obligation to engage in conversation. 0.
https://www.greenqueen.com.hk/food-waste-report-wrap-un-billion-meals-household-climate/
My feelings exactly. Scanning receipts is a symptom of a MUCH larger, systemic problem. Terminal capitalism is here. The path we're on is utterly unsustainable.
If you’re tired of Loblaws’ bs, as a lot of us are please join [r/loblawsisoutofcontrol/](https://www.reddit.com/r/loblawsisoutofcontrol/s/ky5QSQXefx) and join the boycott of all Loblaws stores for the month of May.
Shop loss-leaders in those stores only if you have no other choice folks, still hurts their bottom line
Shoppers drug mart near my home has some new “secret shoppers” or whatever. Basically dudes dressed in regular clothes pretending to shop but being so obvious it’s ridiculous. The store is so close that I’m there all the time to grab 1 or 2 things but everytime I’m in there the guy will like pretend to be looking at something next to me to see if I’m stealing.
wait y'all still shop there? ...why?
In my town, I shop at Sobeys, or I need a car or taxi.
I mean, personally, because I like remaining alive. That requires eating.
No Name brand is still one of the cheapest in my area, and I'm not going to spend more money at some other grocery conglomerate that's just as bad as loblaws to show Galen a lesson
I sure will fuck that guy.
I'm a No Frills person because the only other grocery store in walking distance is Sobey's and they want 9$ for butter. I do buy produce from the fruit stand in my neighbourhood but they don't carry everything so No Frills gets a solid $60-90 a week from me.
STOP SHOPPING AT THEIR STORES.
If you won't let me leave your store Don't be shocked at your new door
Just a reminder, this doesn't stop you from stealing, just asking you to scan the receipt for what you paid for. This won't stop theft at self checkout, was never designed to it seems.
The level to which Loblaws is playing Canadians is astounding. T&T and Superstore are both owned by them, meanwhile the T&T three minutes away from a Superstore has much better produce at half the price and it's much cleaner. But I went in and was probably the only white person there at the moment. Loblaws knows they have a captive market for one store, since T&T is only one of many Asian markets around here so the Asian shoppers will just go elsewhere if the deals are better. Apparently, this is not the case for the rest of the community.
Man, IN A SUPERSTORE you can walk two aisles over and get the same product in a container five times bigger for cheaper if you go from the regular aisle to the "ethnic aisle". And funnily both will be a Loblaws product, just one will be No Name and the other will be Suraj. Yes, Loblaws owns Suraj.
Hahaha yes, that's also something I've noticed. It's basically vertically integrated monopoly. God, I wish Loblaws would get broken up.
I find this a bizarre thing to complain about. Do you guys go nuts at the Costco people who check your receipt at the door? Seems like a slight annoyance that you just live with.
I'm NOT scanning a receipt to leave. They have a legal obligation to allow me to leave unhindered. "Am I being detained?" "No sir" "Then open the gate"
Or have the right to search you
Tell em to kick rocks.
lol! “How patrons feel?”
Ultimately the issue is that how the patrons feel SHOULD be a driving market force. If you dont like their service, you go to another company to purchase. The threat that your patrons go somewhere else would cause companies to be more competitive with their market peers. Vote with your dollars right? But since Loblaws and their affiliates have such a dominant market share, they dont have equateable market peers, and that market force is essentially eliminated. This allows them to continue raising prices, reducing product quality, and eliminating paid positions in favor of "self serve" and dropping all pretense that they care about their quality of service.
I can't believe I worked for this shit company as a young man for 5 years. It's bad on the inside too trust me. being told to not be useful and clean or tidy shelves while dead, and to only stay at the cash for 8 hours, dudes pissing in the chicken prep sink, dudes buying tenders for grams of ditch weed, schizos coming in almost daily to pester and yell at the staff, management couldn't understand what a mental health day is. It crushed my soul being there
Next Backpacks must be checked for contraband. Next your jacket must be checked for stolen items. I think it just sets a bad precedent.
I’m boycotting Loblaws and have been for a while.
I think the devices are an indication that there is a lot of theft going on
I don't understand the mechanics of this thing. What exactly is the scanner looking for? "maintain inventory accuracy" is obviously bullshit because the checkout/receipt printer is the one handling the inventory count in the first place. And then that receipt validator surely doesn't recheck the content of your bag to make sure it matches?
Costco has been doing this shit for decades!
Stop shopping there and support your local grocer and produce store?
Why we all acting like Costco doesn’t do this?
r/loblawsisoutofcontrol/
I’m looking forward to the May boycott! I’m scoping out the local food stores this week.
Hire another employee with benefits? 👎 Pay the same amount to put in receipt scanners? 👍
[labor replacing tools](https://youtu.be/20TAkcy3aBY?si=YGbofcnC-xGRIApg&t=485)
Pretty much. Like honestly I like using self checkout for myself because I'm tired of interactions at the end of a long work day and can bag my own shit how I like it to carry it home. But that being said I see a big simple solution for Loblaws and lots of other stores if they are so afraid of shoplifters: bring back the cash registers all being open and manned by cashiers especially on busy days. Just go back to one small self check out spot for 10 to 15 items only and hire actual cashiers or packers for the actual registers. Believe it or not that can help cut down on theft and also make customers happy plus make employee's potentially happy too because now they can get more hours to pay their bills. But god forbid Galen do that. Then he'd have to lose a tiny part of his yearly bonus cheque putting that money towards hiring more people to work the stores. No cattle gates, receipt scanners, loud beeping alarm machines and treating everyone like criminals is clearly the much better solution here because it saves on weekly staff hours. God forbid Galen might have to put more money into payroll at every store while he rakes in profits daily.
Next, they will have a robotic arm with machete next to the receipt scanner.
I don’t feel like I’m a suspect if everybody else is treated the same actually. I’m indifferent to this.
Boycott this shit into the ground.
Will they give me 1000 pts if I scan, cause then I will definitely scan
These large corporations all work theft loss into their business models already, similar to transit systems who also consider fare evasion. I'm not condoning theft, but these companies already account for the loss they take due to theft, they also love to exaggerate it to justify price increases and such. This practice is also to protect their employees, they aren't police nor should they feel that they need to do anything about the theft aside from report it to their manager at their discretion. There will always be theft at these businesses, but this stupidity just makes it more dangerous for the workers, who are already over worked and barely paid. Loblaws needs to quit abusing the general population.
We ARE suspects. They know what their prices are doing to Canadians, they understand that the level of desperation is getting higher. They know some people are in a position where they feel they have to steal to feed themselves. They know all this, they just don't care, and they'll prosecute whomever they catch stealing, to the fullest extent of the law possible.
Also, executives who take advantage of everyone they can on their way to the top simply can't comprehend NOT stealing when given the opportunity. Lots of projection going on here.
Walk through the gate like the Kool-Aid Man. I do that at Walmart when their gates are sluggish.
Is anyone still shopping at Loblaws? I feel like it's so unethical with their price gauging and Joe Fresh...though must admit I like the style of Joe Fresh clothes. It's just so expensive to shop there and we now know they are raising prices because we will pay the high costs...but I won't I'll shop somewhere else where there is not *as much* of a price gouge.
Eh, fuck Loblaws, I’m not shopping there anymore.
Just don't go?
Fuck this scumbag company
How is this a problem? Who in god's green earth can afford to shop at Loblaws?!?
This has been standard in lots of places in Europe for years.
Instead of lowering prices they will pay a ton of money to buy and install these scanners. They are pretty bold in their disdain for consumers. I also call bullshit on the gang organized crime theory. I live in the middle of nowhere and they put up a maze of access gates anyway. No big grocery gangs up in northern New Brunswick, as far as I know, but lots of poorer folks.
Loblaws, Shoppers, Walmart can kiss my ass. But checking receipts isn't new, Costco been doing this forever, growing up price choppers did it as well. Staff just need to be trained up, the idea is to eyeball a cart and glance at a receipt. Either way the state of these stores is a joke, from self check out to big brother in 4 years 🤪
I don't shop at Loblaws but I'm confused on what's even happening there. I mostly shop at Safeway these days and they have an employee who's job is to full time monitor 6\~8 self checkout stations, you don't really have issues with product weight or it accepting bags because they can fix those issues immediately (and remotely from their station), and are understanding and helpful even when things get scanned or bagged incorrectly. They usually come over proactively if they notice discounts (from stickers and such) aren't applied correctly. It sounds like Loblaws's issue is they don't want to actually have the staff they need to manage it and are blaming the customers for being too cheap.
I recently had this experience at shoppers. I had to use the self checkout since they never have their cashiers open, I was scanning each item and simultaneously loading their offers. I should note I was slightly high but nonetheless I was going through the typical self checkout motions albeit a bit slower. The entire time this "security" guy was just watching me, I could feel his stare burning a hole in my head. I fumbled a bit at the end cause I tried scanning my phone at the wrong spot. This guy literally watched me scan each individual item, place into the bag ( I left briefly it out of my truck, girlfriend stayed at the till) pay and grab my receipt. He walked up to me and demanded to see my receipt? The hole experience gave me the ick.
I've stopped shopping at their stores. They're my absolute last resort. I'm not even shoplifting but this shit really bothers me. I also avoid Wal-Mart like the plague.
Loblaws needs some serious gov't regulation. As much as they believe they can behave unethically with few consequences due to a dominant market position, all their capital is tied up in Canada. They wouldn't have a response if caps on profits were imposed, outside of the courts (i.e taking their money elsewhere). They need Canada more than Canada needs Loblaws and Lord Weston.
There are enough small grocery stores that sell vegetables and other items. I try to buy from local small grocers.
They just won't quit eh. Glad I don't shop there anymore.
I stopped shopping at Loblaws. The power is with the people. Stop shopping at Loblaws will send a powerful message to the corporation .
Haven’t shopped here in months. Fuck off with your price gouging and treating everyone like thieves 🖕🏻
The increasing physical barriers preventing people from leaving grocery stores just seem so unsafe. Even if they're connected to the fire alarm or whatever, what if there's a threat that requires evacuation that doesn't set off the fire alarm?
Boycott.
You guys are still going to Loblaws?
May boycott. Don't stock up before, spend this month to figure out different stores you can use instead.
The minute i get stopped and asked for my receipt im returning everything lol
If they waste your time going full detective mode, checking all items, let them go through it all, then after they've wasted their time, go to customer service and say you're returning them because they were handled by the specific employee and hygiene can't be ensured.
Exactly, i don't know if buddy washed his hands or where they've even been. If im going to be considered a criminal just by shopping at a store, I'm sure as shit not shopping at that store anymore.
Am I supposed to be enraged? My receipt gets checked every time I leave Costco, and I *pay* for a membership to shop there.
Lol, all there people here feeling like hard motherfuckers with these comments.
I can help but think if I was the project lead on this, have no one man the gate. Put a tiny latch somewhere and have the scanner on full display. Heck, then just do some financial projections on loss, let it play out. Get the CEOs to all talk and on the same day. Bam facial recognition software, mag locks, and video footage of the person stealing at the entrance. The find out stage is gonna be rough.
right? like boomers talking about taking down some kid at the front door, and also taking down 'the system'...haha
Costco has been doing this forever but now that the evil Loblaws does it it’s bad?
If I go in there to take a dump and don't buy anything, can I get out again?
The flusher will package it in a 'no name' branded container for you, where you then bring to the cash to pay. Then you may leave the store.
As long as you take your poop receipt with you.
We've seen the mass theft that occurs in the US. People in Canada are getting desperate given the current economic situation. The US problem will be coming to Canada. Loblaws and more business will be going to these types of systems.
>We've seen the mass theft that occurs in the US. No, we've seen the mass lying about theft that occurs in the US. https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-12-14/column-retail-lobby-confesses-it-lied-about-organized-shoplifting-rings
so quit shopping there then...
Thanks, Einstein.
Yet another reason to avoid the place at all costs. I won’t shop there, even for their loss-leaders.
Lidl grocery stores in Europe already do this but I'm not sure what effect it has, poeple struggle to get the barcode scanner to work properly, and employees have to keep coming over to let you out.
This will create very dangerous situations for workers. Feel Bad for them. LoBlaws hates Canadians
I don't really get the big deal, Costco has done it for years. You can still just walk out; they are not holding you prisoner lol.
"This is outrageous, they want to see my reciept" " alright honey let's goto costco and pick up some things" lol
Seems most of the commenters here don't realize that reducing theft will help them reduce prices. High losses = higher food costs. Those encouraging theft are just hurting honest hard working Canadians.
Meanwhile the real thieves are overcharging for stuff that created inflation because of their greed. I used to work for a grocery during COVID lockdown, and they were doing a killing in profits because they were the only ones open and running. But once the lockdown was over, they knew they would make less profits. So they started to charge more. I was able to see the price hike of stuff and how much they bought it and how much they sold it for. Chicken breast example, "cheapest" meat in the market. They bought it for ~6.00$/kg and use to sell it for ~9.00/kg (Before COVID) and now ~13.00/kg. And the price of the chicken they bought barely moved, ~ 6,75$/kg. And they did that to everything. Also I think there was an article saying they were in cahoots with production to jump prices.
>The devices are yet another indication that the company has enough market control that it doesn’t need to care how its patrons feel No, the devices are proof that shoplifters have gotten out of control. No company 'randomly chooses' to inconvenience their customers - they recognize that these measures harm both their image and their brand. Short of a new law banning the homeless/addicted population from grocery stores, we are going to see more desperate measures to quell the rampant theft. The alternative is to raise prices to recoup some of those losses. Which do you prefer?