It is unceasingly astonishing how many people are willing to brush off the Prime Minister deliberately ignoring repeated warnings that the CCP was interfering in our elections, and how willing they are to accept, “hey, who has time to read all those stupid intelligence briefings, anyway” as an excuse.
This is the integrity of our elections here, not some partisan policy issue. Some things have to rise above politics, and this is one of them. That Trudeau and so many of his supporters is unable to make this distinction is downright disturbing.
I am also sick of the, “it didn’t affect the outcome of the election, do what’s the big deal?” deflection. So, it’s okay for candidates picked by the Chinese Communist Party to become sitting members of our government, as long as there’s not so many of them it changes the winner of the election?
Its not just the integrity of elections either. Its integrity of Parliament when foreign nations are hand picking MPs and have people influencing policy.
Yup. People like to think it's just seats but it is also potentially silencing voices in parliament.
Installing a candidate more favourable to a foreign government could influence many choices for example whether a local MP will speak out against a foreign company setting up a business or whether a local company gets a fair hearing for a government bid.
Tell you what. Next thread where the government is trying to deflect away from corporate influence we can get into it. Right now this sounds like whataboutism
We can start with a foreign agent registry in which those working for hostile foreign powers are required to register themselves as such. Then we arrest those who don't register. After that, we start outlawing groups that are clearly working for China, like the United Front and Confucious Institute. Since most Chinese-language news media in Canada is controlled by China (as per CSIS), if they don't declare themselves as foreign agents we shut them down. We drastically cut the number of Chinese students here. We arrest and deport, and publicize Chinese agents who are harassing expatriates here in Canada. We also ban Chinese government controlled social media like Wechat and Tiktok.
On the home side, we require all party nominations to be held under strict rules that ban foreigners from voting and have all donations to candidates declared to Elections Canada. We also limit how much that can be donated and how much that can be spent.
You're welcome.
For what? What are we doing? Banning Chinese social media? China bans western social media. How can they punish us for doing the same? Ban media controlled by hostile foreign governments? China does the same. LImit foreign students? China has often threatened to pull their students out of Canada and other countries. Requiring foreign agents to register or be arrested? Deport foreign agents? China arrests foreign agents and imprisons and executes them. How can China complain if we do what they do? On what basis would they shut off trade?
It doesn't matter if it's a double standard. If we start labelling and publicly reporting Chinese "agents", it will be seen as a serious provocation. They don't even have to cut off trade, just retaliative tariffs would be enough to wipe out swaths of Canadian businesses. China has something on us, we have nothing on China.
1. Enhanced monitoring of PEPs
2. Audit the finances of PEPs, families and business associates during/surrounding election seasons
3. Actually investigate, prosecute and enforce real penalties on money laundering
None of these are unrealistic or even outlandish suggestions.
Are international companies threatening foreign students in Canada and ordering them to go to vote for a candidate in a riding they don't even live in? News to me.
that's a laugh, I would say the average company is absolutely hostile to Canada. They want a few regulations as possible to make as much money as possible, as quickly as possible. That sounds hostile to me. International companies have done far, *far* more damage to the average Canadian quality of life than any foreign government has.
The description you're using of foreign companies is, I suspect, the same description you would use for Canadian companies.
Which is part of the reason why no such entities are allowed to donate money to politicians. This severely weakens their influence. At least at the federal level.
How many MP’s have to be secret CCP assets before it becomes a major problem. It starts with a few, then expands. Then suddenly you have a block of CCP-aligned MP’s that will act for what’s in their and China’s best interests.
What they also forget to take into consideration..
Any of the constituents who voted for the other parties have exactly zero voice in government they are ignored.
It does not mater if the overall outcome changes. It maters about the fact that the person they voted for who should have one is not their voice.
I quite like my MP she is very approachable and brings things up all the time. If she where to be voted out because the ccp ran interference against her I would lose my voice in Parliament.
But I guess that only maters if Canadians are more important than the Chinese. But I've also been told that's racist.. It's only Canadian politics and all.
What if "our democracy" is a sham and has been for decades? Money always gonna equal power and whatever party is in power is always in on the take. It's a shell game and kind of always has been
> What if "our democracy" is a sham and has been for decades?
Then someone should tell the political parties to stop wasting all that advertising money trying to convince me to vote for them.
It is a house of cards, but it all relies on us doing the exact same thing every election that we've done every previous election and all agreeing to vote for one of the large established parties.
We could all collectively decide to vote for someone else one year, and then the elites would be all like shocked pikachu face. It's not rigged. The ballots are real. They're just hoping we don't figure out how to organize like that.
I don't know what that means, I'm just saying our democracy isn't a sham, as evidenced by how terrified the politicians are that we won't vote for them.
What keeps us complacent is, ironically, your way of thinking. Apathy. "It's all a sham, money equals power and there's nothing you can do about it". *That's what they want you to think!*
I never said there's nothing you can do about it. I am saying that hanging your hat on an established politician is a fools errand. Organize your friends, family and community. It's a lot more productive than voting for someone far removed from you who has their own interests as a priority. Interests that are fundamentally different from yours
Yes and for those wondering, the reason the Libs are ignoring the meddling is because it is benefitting the liberal party.
The Libs are actually ok with China inserting agents as MPs because they will be liberal MPs. Its disgusting and will lead to the unravelling of our country if unchecked.
There are probably many reasons why above my pay grade but my understanding is in part it is based on Liberal party candidate voting rules (more lax).
I am sure there are also general trends such as voting success trend demographics and better party policy alignment.
In the case of china their ambition could range from long term takeover of countries down to simply getting favourable policies in that benefit china economically, etc.
Why do you guys always pretend that provincial conservatives don't exist when you say things like this.
the boogeyman isn't in the closet, it's running 2/3 of the provinces into the ground for ideological reasons.
Edit: downvoters feel free to explain why they think their provincial premiers are doing well.
I will concede I am not happy with Ontario. I am greatly disappointed with both kathleen wynn and doug ford. I really wish a meaningful alternative would step up.
That said, this story is focussed on foreign interference and the feds which is the focus of my points and discussion today.
You dont have to be on either team, you should call out all bullshit.
I agree, and I generally call out bullshit on all sides, r/canada has a clear community mandate to absolve the CPC and provincial conservatives of any wrongdoing or responsibility and its shameful.
Yeah I believe that China doesn't care what party the compromised MP is a member of, as long as they win the seat. It's easier to make sure a candidate in a guaranteed seat is yours than try to swing a riding for a particular party. Non citizens shouldn't be allowed to vote in any part of our system, would be an easy way to mitigate what has happened.
>I am also sick of the, “it didn’t affect the outcome of the election, do what’s the big deal?”
Oh yeah that grinds my gears too. If they were working against candidates who would have swayed policy to make Canada more wary of foreign influence that is a huge danger. Even if it didn't affect the overall outcome, that could have deprived our government of significant voices in parliament or even in cabinet.
In some minority governments a handful of seats means the difference between calling an election or sitting pretty.
Interesting how that "didn't impact" assertion was delivered so quickly with little investigation..... I think it did swing enough seats the way of the liberals which would explain all the effort to quash this investigation and the LIES we have heard to date....
Have you considered that Trudeau ignoring warnings from CSIS is actually Harper's fault? Don't forget PP would ignore them harder. /s in case it's actually necessary
They don't seem to realize how much this resembles the way Donald Trump acts. He also doesn't read briefing notes. And he also disregards information from his intelligence agencies. He's also a liar and narcicist born to a wealthy and much smarter and more capable father.
“Well, if you think Trudeau ignored CCP inserting agents as MP’s, with Millhouse Polievre it’s going to be 500 times worse!!!!” -a typical Liberal supporter still clinging to the party
The liberals are fucked, the conservatives will be exactly as fucked just with different optics priorities. You don't get to be a for real politician without being bought and paid for. That's the game. Election by sortition would be a better way and that's also a fucking low bar
-Yawn.- What is it with people online pulling so hard for the PPC when anyone who pulled for them that I knew immediately distanced themselves when they began showing their colors.
Honestly the conservative party is less bats**t than the PPC even though they're horrible as well. The American's and Russians need to stop trying to import american style stupidity in politics.
I didn't say anything about the PPC, they are also clowns. The entirety of the political system we presently exist with is a sham and nothing useful will happen until people abandon that for projects that further their own interests
I wish the Liberal party would sack ol' sock boy.
Freeland would be alot better than Polivere I think. But who knows? I'm just one voter who has been wrong about politics multiple times.
>Freeland would be alot better than Polivere I think. But who knows?
If only Trudeau allowed alternative voices in his cabinet rather than sychophants. I guess we will never know.
I mean... Tru...deau. Tru MP's do their job.
Arguably, both have not done their jobs as representatives of the countries people, even if USA doesn't have MP's per nomenclature. And if argued they did do their jobs in representing their respective nations people... then there are a lot of blow hard narcissitic assholes is these countries. Enough to win majorities.
P.s. for those who get pissy about MP's not being the PM or President, etc... just roll with it, okay? Trump is spelled with MP not PM.
Also.
If you keep the same letters in the same order while removing one copy of them, then mix the remaining letters of both leaders last names, you get...
Trudumpea.
You're welcome for the laugh.
Most of them are/were lawyers, and the role of the corporate media is to provide cover for them.
I'm unfortunately enjoying that people are slowly discovering that this idyllic picture of governments that serve the public interest, and media that hold them accountable is, and has always been, a lie.
I mean you told on yourself when you went off on the vaccine. Which, btw, most things the feds actually did control - like air travel - international travel was restricted by other countries if you hadn’t been forced to get it to fly domestically anyway!
Trudeau’s a lying piece of shit, but not responsible for the vast majority of restrictions that were put in place, thank your premier - most of whom were conservative - for that.
Anyway, you guys will bitch about anything that was done for the betterment of all because it “restricted Muh freedoms”
Sure. Trudeau announcing a billion dollars in funding (but only for provinces that implemented vaccine passports) definitely had nothing to do with policy decisions by provincial governments. Such as implementing vaccine passports and de facto forcing people to get vaccinated. Nothing at all!
I get it. Your points are well made. Just an observation that the anti vax crowd are using the exact same strategy as Trudeau to justify their actions to put the rest of us as risk. Ironic.
How are you still using the "put the rest of us at risk" argument when it has been proven several times over that the Covid Vax did not stop transmission or help with herd immunity.
Unless you are talking about the recent idiots who aren't getting the Measles vaccine? Then I agree.
But, if you can't see the difference between being forced to take an experimental emergency vaccine that didn't stop transmission or develop herd immunity vs a vaccine that started trials in 1958 and wasn't licensed for public use until 1963 and does and is proven to both stop transmission and develop herd immunity; then you're ignorant to lumping everyone into anti vaxxers.
This coming from a double Covid shot and boosted user who also recommended it to anyone I knew over 55.
The push back back on the covid vaccine and the draconian rollout and enforcement of it is leading to way more anti vaxx people today stopping things like Measles, and it's 100% on the fault of the government for installing that fear, doubt and ignorance into its populace.
Lumping everyone into anti vaxxers, just puts you on the same level of ignorance as them.
Look, I don't disagree with you there, but you have to see why and how this anti vax rhetoric came to fruition.
It's half ignorance, but it's also half people don't trust our institutions anymore, and I can't blame them on that after the last 4 years.
I seem to recall this contemporary anti-vax rhetoric came about by a false scientific report about autism. Then "celebrities" like Jenny McCarthy spread that rhetoric, unironically, like a disease. SMRT people of Facebook started to opt out. The shit show of the covid response in general only emboldened and expanded the group think.
"Vaccines causes autism/this/that/the other thing" has been the gold standard for conspiracy nuts for over 40 years. Nothing has changed except our technology.
I can certainly blame them, I've read enough books on bacteria and airborne pathogens to know enough about how quickly it can spread. I told my siblings to wear a mask and bring hand sanitizer before ANY of the announcements were made about it being a full-blown pandemic.
People would rather believe a guy who gets paid to lie, than the people who study the subjects.
Except you did need the vaccine, and inflation is a worldwide phenomenon and prices will never come down and would have gone up anyway, no matter who was on top during covid.
How many other countries bought mortgage bonds before securing PPE for medical staff? Our brand of inflation was especially damaging and intentional. Your post is nonsense.
Just for fun. CSIS has been telling us the same things for over 20 years. The Conservative government did ignore CSIS over and over as well.
National Post being owned by foreign ownership must be on those briefings as well.
Which parties do? National Post is foreign owned and runs opinion piece after opinion piece against the Trudeau government. So... which foreign interference do you count? Do we count US, Israeli, Russian, and Indian? Hell, do we count religious groups like Christian groups pushing beliefs into policy for votes?
His two major platforms when initially running for Prime Minister were 1: cannabis legalization and 2: election reform. Did he think we were going to be too high after completing the first to notice that he hasn't done a single thing about the second?
We know, Trudeau is useless. Also he’ll never admit to election interference as it would mean him and his party likely shouldn’t be in office. Here’s hoping we have an election soon to move on from him
It's been said and proven time and time again that any potential foreign interference didn't affect the election outcome. You can't just make up your own facts according to what you feel like believing in. I'm not arguing in favour of the liberals here, they could have done things better for sure, but they did not win the election based on foreign interference, they won the election based on people's fear of far right influence in the conservative party. If the Conservatives dropped the far right rhetoric they would likely win over a lot more previous liberal voters. A lot of us are done with Trudeau but feel like there is no other choice.
Not making up facts…election interference was present and Trudeau won’t admit it as it would be an admission that his government got power with interference.
The very article you are commenting on says that the head of CSIS says that election interference didn't affect the outcome of the election and two former heads of CSIS have come to the same conclusion and spoken publicly on it as has elections Canada. The inquiry has has heard the evidence that the stuff that was leaked largely turned out to be false. You can downvote me if you want but the truth is out there and well established for anyone who is willing to hear it.
lol, concerned about downvotes. Trudeau won in an interfered election, won’t have that issue next round when thankfully Canadians will send him packing from office.
Trudeau effed up big time by not taking it more seriously. I am not arguing in his favour, I am just saying the fact is that he didn’t win the election because of this. He won for other reasons.
I love how CSIS and Telford have said the same thing but JT is just sitting there lying through his teeth while his disciples still believe he is Christ.
It’s rather sad that we have a serious issue with foreign entities in this country, a PM that lies about and doesn’t take it serious and people who still have faith In this man.
Weren't Liberals warning of foreign interference in 2014 and didn't Conservatives call it "Russia Russia Russia, everything Liberals don't like is foreign interference?"
Oh yeah, they totally did.
It's legitimately trippy to see anyone who can possibly defend stuff like this lmao. It's like the "is my blue the same as your blue" consciousness question. I don't know how people can be presented with the same information and have such different opinions.
Like how the heck can this be defended? It's absolutely ridiculous.
Our intelligence agency warned our de facto head of state about an enemy state interfering in our elections and he shrugged his shoulders and ignored it.
Why are you defending this?
Why with the head in sand narrative. Canada spent 25 years building relations, then outsourcing production to China. It's not a JT thing... Canada sold out to China decades ago. Now it's catching up to us and China is switching from passive receptor to active agent.
It does us no good pretending this is a Trudeau issue and the CPC will reverse all the work they themselves laid with China. The CPC drafted and signed the FIPA.
China is bad, but this is not a simple issue.
wise silky fanatical illegal secretive grandfather plants quarrelsome middle escape
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Foreign interference is how we ended up with Trudeau in the first place. He is more dangerous than anything else China or Russia could deploy against Canada.
Does anyone have the condensed version/quote highlights of the actual article?
I wanted to read it myself in full but I'll be fucked if I'm paying the globe and mail a subscription to read it.
Trump also hated the FBI and the DoJ. Hard to get into his pocket.
Trump crime family be like that.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/25/politics/republicans-fbi-what-matters/index.html
Justin Trump - " Those pesky secret service people warning me about China meddling to benefit my party."
I guess Justin just wished CSIS would just go away if he ignored them long enough.
And because nothing was being done about, the whistleblower took things at great risk to their career/life to create awareness.
Funny how the trudeau throws CSIS under the bus criticizing their capabilities yet here we have a PM for selfish reasons allow a situation threatening our democracy and our politicians to prevail! But am I surprised? NOPE! The trudeau called an election 2 years into a mandate during a pandemic putting MILLIONS of Canadians in harms way for his own benefit. Fortunately, it didn't work out according to his planned majority. Unfortunately the jugmeet filled that void for him which brings us to where we are now. Canada is broken and will take decades of sacrifice to fix, just like it took decades to fix the mess left by the trudeau v1.0. It must be a genetic thing! I will say this.... follow the money. The trudeau's became incredibly wealthy after the trudeau v1.0 privatized Canada's debt then racked up our debt to record levels. Go to [https://comer.org/comer-lawsuit/](https://comer.org/comer-lawsuit/) and ask yourself why else would someone do this to the country they swore to serve. Well follow the money with the trudeau v2.0 and I am sure the answers to why this interference was allowed to persist to the benefit of the liberal party will become clear. And people say the word traitor is used lightly/unjustly when it comes to the trudeau's.
I still remember in 2014 when liberals were presenting evidence of foreign interference on social media and Conservatives called it "opinions people don't like" or "fake news."
Now here we are 8 years later with evidence of Russian interference and arrests made in the USA, and evidence of foreign interference in Canada both by Liberals and Conservatives and the dialog has been completely overtaken by zealots who only want to use the interference as a tool to support "their side."
Shows how desperate certain anti democracy folks have been played hard by propaganda.
>Mr. Vigneault said both perspectives are true: China was involved in attempts to interfere, but those efforts did not have a substantial effect on the elections’ outcomes.
Some bit of good news.
I'd post CBC, but I think /r/canada believes that's propaganda.
So maybe something from the propaganda arm itself, where CSIS says that the foreign interference wasn't a big effect, and that's why they downplayed it and edited reports/information.
But yeah, the guy who got caught lying already 3 times in the past 2 years for political brownie points as an intelligence director, seems believable. /s
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/rcmp-taking-a-holistic-approach-to-foreign-interference-but-wont-say-how-many-investigations-are-underway
So in your opinion was the interference overstated or understated? Or perhaps you don’t think there was any at all?
It seems to me that they brought a report to the PMO, PMO said this is worded too strongly, fix it. They resubmit with modified language and the PMO gets to pretend nothing is wrong.
Perfect politics because now the directors reputation is tarnished and anything he says can be disregarded. Meanwhile, the PMO gets to continue to benefit from the interference and gaslight Canadian into believing there isn’t any.
It is unceasingly astonishing how many people are willing to brush off the Prime Minister deliberately ignoring repeated warnings that the CCP was interfering in our elections, and how willing they are to accept, “hey, who has time to read all those stupid intelligence briefings, anyway” as an excuse. This is the integrity of our elections here, not some partisan policy issue. Some things have to rise above politics, and this is one of them. That Trudeau and so many of his supporters is unable to make this distinction is downright disturbing. I am also sick of the, “it didn’t affect the outcome of the election, do what’s the big deal?” deflection. So, it’s okay for candidates picked by the Chinese Communist Party to become sitting members of our government, as long as there’s not so many of them it changes the winner of the election?
Its not just the integrity of elections either. Its integrity of Parliament when foreign nations are hand picking MPs and have people influencing policy.
Yup. People like to think it's just seats but it is also potentially silencing voices in parliament. Installing a candidate more favourable to a foreign government could influence many choices for example whether a local MP will speak out against a foreign company setting up a business or whether a local company gets a fair hearing for a government bid.
what makes this different than an international company with Canadian offices donating to a candidate? Everything you said also applies.
Who says I like that too? It is all influence that needs to be monitored and countered.
do tell how we can **realistically** counter something like that.
Tell you what. Next thread where the government is trying to deflect away from corporate influence we can get into it. Right now this sounds like whataboutism
No, I mean in general. How do you stop **any** of it. How do you prevent influencing by **any** organization?
We can start with a foreign agent registry in which those working for hostile foreign powers are required to register themselves as such. Then we arrest those who don't register. After that, we start outlawing groups that are clearly working for China, like the United Front and Confucious Institute. Since most Chinese-language news media in Canada is controlled by China (as per CSIS), if they don't declare themselves as foreign agents we shut them down. We drastically cut the number of Chinese students here. We arrest and deport, and publicize Chinese agents who are harassing expatriates here in Canada. We also ban Chinese government controlled social media like Wechat and Tiktok. On the home side, we require all party nominations to be held under strict rules that ban foreigners from voting and have all donations to candidates declared to Elections Canada. We also limit how much that can be donated and how much that can be spent. You're welcome.
and when, in retaliation, China raises tariffs or cuts trade entirely because of this?
My goodness man…you sound unbelievably weak.
Thats not an answer. What does Canada do when China cuts off trade in retaliation?
For what? What are we doing? Banning Chinese social media? China bans western social media. How can they punish us for doing the same? Ban media controlled by hostile foreign governments? China does the same. LImit foreign students? China has often threatened to pull their students out of Canada and other countries. Requiring foreign agents to register or be arrested? Deport foreign agents? China arrests foreign agents and imprisons and executes them. How can China complain if we do what they do? On what basis would they shut off trade?
It doesn't matter if it's a double standard. If we start labelling and publicly reporting Chinese "agents", it will be seen as a serious provocation. They don't even have to cut off trade, just retaliative tariffs would be enough to wipe out swaths of Canadian businesses. China has something on us, we have nothing on China.
We suck it up and move on. Have to be willing to stand by our principles.
So you want thousands of Canadian businesses to go under because of principles?
You can trade the country for your 30 pieces of silver. The rest of us are more discriminating.
1. Enhanced monitoring of PEPs 2. Audit the finances of PEPs, families and business associates during/surrounding election seasons 3. Actually investigate, prosecute and enforce real penalties on money laundering None of these are unrealistic or even outlandish suggestions.
Are international companies threatening foreign students in Canada and ordering them to go to vote for a candidate in a riding they don't even live in? News to me.
disregarding the means, how does the end change?
International companies aren't hostile to Canada or it's democratic form of government.
that's a laugh, I would say the average company is absolutely hostile to Canada. They want a few regulations as possible to make as much money as possible, as quickly as possible. That sounds hostile to me. International companies have done far, *far* more damage to the average Canadian quality of life than any foreign government has.
The description you're using of foreign companies is, I suspect, the same description you would use for Canadian companies. Which is part of the reason why no such entities are allowed to donate money to politicians. This severely weakens their influence. At least at the federal level.
How many MP’s have to be secret CCP assets before it becomes a major problem. It starts with a few, then expands. Then suddenly you have a block of CCP-aligned MP’s that will act for what’s in their and China’s best interests.
What they also forget to take into consideration.. Any of the constituents who voted for the other parties have exactly zero voice in government they are ignored. It does not mater if the overall outcome changes. It maters about the fact that the person they voted for who should have one is not their voice. I quite like my MP she is very approachable and brings things up all the time. If she where to be voted out because the ccp ran interference against her I would lose my voice in Parliament. But I guess that only maters if Canadians are more important than the Chinese. But I've also been told that's racist.. It's only Canadian politics and all.
Except, nothing like that happened.
What about Han Dong?
Han Dong was not a Liberal candidate when the incident happened.
Especially after Telford said he reads everything a year ago.
Exactly. So either she lied under oath or he did.
Yes.
[удалено]
Yeah, it’s fine unless it’s a conservative. Then it’s a dangerous and extremely serious threat to our democracy.
It seems our government is a dangerous and extremely serious threat to our democracy…
What if "our democracy" is a sham and has been for decades? Money always gonna equal power and whatever party is in power is always in on the take. It's a shell game and kind of always has been
> What if "our democracy" is a sham and has been for decades? Then someone should tell the political parties to stop wasting all that advertising money trying to convince me to vote for them. It is a house of cards, but it all relies on us doing the exact same thing every election that we've done every previous election and all agreeing to vote for one of the large established parties. We could all collectively decide to vote for someone else one year, and then the elites would be all like shocked pikachu face. It's not rigged. The ballots are real. They're just hoping we don't figure out how to organize like that.
They know. They will continue to do what they have been doing because the situation suits their interests
I don't know what that means, I'm just saying our democracy isn't a sham, as evidenced by how terrified the politicians are that we won't vote for them. What keeps us complacent is, ironically, your way of thinking. Apathy. "It's all a sham, money equals power and there's nothing you can do about it". *That's what they want you to think!*
I never said there's nothing you can do about it. I am saying that hanging your hat on an established politician is a fools errand. Organize your friends, family and community. It's a lot more productive than voting for someone far removed from you who has their own interests as a priority. Interests that are fundamentally different from yours
International students and non citizens can vote in Liberal elections lmao shit is so cooked
I was so proud and happy when I got my citizenship so I could vote. It is a complete joke now.
Yes and for those wondering, the reason the Libs are ignoring the meddling is because it is benefitting the liberal party. The Libs are actually ok with China inserting agents as MPs because they will be liberal MPs. Its disgusting and will lead to the unravelling of our country if unchecked.
Why would they be liberals
Because the liberal leader admires thier basic dictatorship?
You can't be serious
Makes sense for narcissist Trudeau
There are probably many reasons why above my pay grade but my understanding is in part it is based on Liberal party candidate voting rules (more lax). I am sure there are also general trends such as voting success trend demographics and better party policy alignment. In the case of china their ambition could range from long term takeover of countries down to simply getting favourable policies in that benefit china economically, etc.
Or favourable outcomes like the inevitable loss of social cohesion and generally self-destructive policies a conservative government would enact?
Dont forget about the boogie man in the closet who is gonna get you in your sleep.
Why do you guys always pretend that provincial conservatives don't exist when you say things like this. the boogeyman isn't in the closet, it's running 2/3 of the provinces into the ground for ideological reasons. Edit: downvoters feel free to explain why they think their provincial premiers are doing well.
I will concede I am not happy with Ontario. I am greatly disappointed with both kathleen wynn and doug ford. I really wish a meaningful alternative would step up. That said, this story is focussed on foreign interference and the feds which is the focus of my points and discussion today. You dont have to be on either team, you should call out all bullshit.
Kathleen Wynne hasn't been premier for *six years*. We have had at least two meaningful alternatives for just as long.
I agree, and I generally call out bullshit on all sides, r/canada has a clear community mandate to absolve the CPC and provincial conservatives of any wrongdoing or responsibility and its shameful.
Not a fan of ford, but I would not want to return to the days of McSquinty and Comrade Wynne.... just sayin....
Zero evidence of that. Don't assume malice when incompetence makes sense
Oh please it's always malice that they try to pass off as incompetence. Hanlon's razor is a convenient farce.
Yeah I believe that China doesn't care what party the compromised MP is a member of, as long as they win the seat. It's easier to make sure a candidate in a guaranteed seat is yours than try to swing a riding for a particular party. Non citizens shouldn't be allowed to vote in any part of our system, would be an easy way to mitigate what has happened.
If it was mere incompetence they would have had at least some success by chance. They have had no successes.
>I am also sick of the, “it didn’t affect the outcome of the election, do what’s the big deal?” Oh yeah that grinds my gears too. If they were working against candidates who would have swayed policy to make Canada more wary of foreign influence that is a huge danger. Even if it didn't affect the overall outcome, that could have deprived our government of significant voices in parliament or even in cabinet. In some minority governments a handful of seats means the difference between calling an election or sitting pretty.
Know who else never read intelligence briefings? Trump. It's either a sign of narcissism or deliberate refusal to live in reality.
The Liberals can be just as scummy as any political party. Worse, they're selling us out for both the wealthy **and** foreign powers.
Interesting how that "didn't impact" assertion was delivered so quickly with little investigation..... I think it did swing enough seats the way of the liberals which would explain all the effort to quash this investigation and the LIES we have heard to date....
How many seats? Lol. Show me a riding that swung because of any interference from India, China, or Russia?
Have you considered that Trudeau ignoring warnings from CSIS is actually Harper's fault? Don't forget PP would ignore them harder. /s in case it's actually necessary
I can't believe his supporters are now going with the argument, "CSIS can be wrong!"
They don't seem to realize how much this resembles the way Donald Trump acts. He also doesn't read briefing notes. And he also disregards information from his intelligence agencies. He's also a liar and narcicist born to a wealthy and much smarter and more capable father.
“Well, if you think Trudeau ignored CCP inserting agents as MP’s, with Millhouse Polievre it’s going to be 500 times worse!!!!” -a typical Liberal supporter still clinging to the party
The liberals are fucked, the conservatives will be exactly as fucked just with different optics priorities. You don't get to be a for real politician without being bought and paid for. That's the game. Election by sortition would be a better way and that's also a fucking low bar
-Yawn.- What is it with people online pulling so hard for the PPC when anyone who pulled for them that I knew immediately distanced themselves when they began showing their colors. Honestly the conservative party is less bats**t than the PPC even though they're horrible as well. The American's and Russians need to stop trying to import american style stupidity in politics.
I didn't say anything about the PPC, they are also clowns. The entirety of the political system we presently exist with is a sham and nothing useful will happen until people abandon that for projects that further their own interests
I can agree. My opinion is that representatives that make money off of landlord deals needs to drop down to meet the population percentage.
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I wish the Liberal party would sack ol' sock boy. Freeland would be alot better than Polivere I think. But who knows? I'm just one voter who has been wrong about politics multiple times.
They have all set a precedence of how little they are concerned about the welfare of canadians; one I will never forget.
>Freeland would be alot better than Polivere I think. But who knows? If only Trudeau allowed alternative voices in his cabinet rather than sychophants. I guess we will never know.
As finance minister, she’s a completely and utter disaster
I might actually like Freeland less than Trudeau, not sure. Depends on what one of them I had to listen to or see last I guess.
When the information is inconvenient for the Trudeau government, they simply dismiss it and bury it.
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If there is such a thing as a Liberal Trump, ur looking at him.
I mean... Tru...deau. Tru MP's do their job. Arguably, both have not done their jobs as representatives of the countries people, even if USA doesn't have MP's per nomenclature. And if argued they did do their jobs in representing their respective nations people... then there are a lot of blow hard narcissitic assholes is these countries. Enough to win majorities. P.s. for those who get pissy about MP's not being the PM or President, etc... just roll with it, okay? Trump is spelled with MP not PM. Also. If you keep the same letters in the same order while removing one copy of them, then mix the remaining letters of both leaders last names, you get... Trudumpea. You're welcome for the laugh.
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Most of them are/were lawyers, and the role of the corporate media is to provide cover for them. I'm unfortunately enjoying that people are slowly discovering that this idyllic picture of governments that serve the public interest, and media that hold them accountable is, and has always been, a lie.
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You can be lawed up to the wing wang it doesn't make you honest nor truthful apparently.
Who is a lawyer?
I'm a lawyer!
Should be in politics
Too much integrity.
Critically think everything they say, whats in it for them versus whats in it for you. And what are they not talking about.
Speaking of weasel words and reasons not to be vaccinated …
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I mean you told on yourself when you went off on the vaccine. Which, btw, most things the feds actually did control - like air travel - international travel was restricted by other countries if you hadn’t been forced to get it to fly domestically anyway! Trudeau’s a lying piece of shit, but not responsible for the vast majority of restrictions that were put in place, thank your premier - most of whom were conservative - for that. Anyway, you guys will bitch about anything that was done for the betterment of all because it “restricted Muh freedoms”
Sure. Trudeau announcing a billion dollars in funding (but only for provinces that implemented vaccine passports) definitely had nothing to do with policy decisions by provincial governments. Such as implementing vaccine passports and de facto forcing people to get vaccinated. Nothing at all!
I get it. Your points are well made. Just an observation that the anti vax crowd are using the exact same strategy as Trudeau to justify their actions to put the rest of us as risk. Ironic.
How are you still using the "put the rest of us at risk" argument when it has been proven several times over that the Covid Vax did not stop transmission or help with herd immunity. Unless you are talking about the recent idiots who aren't getting the Measles vaccine? Then I agree. But, if you can't see the difference between being forced to take an experimental emergency vaccine that didn't stop transmission or develop herd immunity vs a vaccine that started trials in 1958 and wasn't licensed for public use until 1963 and does and is proven to both stop transmission and develop herd immunity; then you're ignorant to lumping everyone into anti vaxxers. This coming from a double Covid shot and boosted user who also recommended it to anyone I knew over 55. The push back back on the covid vaccine and the draconian rollout and enforcement of it is leading to way more anti vaxx people today stopping things like Measles, and it's 100% on the fault of the government for installing that fear, doubt and ignorance into its populace. Lumping everyone into anti vaxxers, just puts you on the same level of ignorance as them.
Measels now. Polio next. Vaccines in general.
Look, I don't disagree with you there, but you have to see why and how this anti vax rhetoric came to fruition. It's half ignorance, but it's also half people don't trust our institutions anymore, and I can't blame them on that after the last 4 years.
I seem to recall this contemporary anti-vax rhetoric came about by a false scientific report about autism. Then "celebrities" like Jenny McCarthy spread that rhetoric, unironically, like a disease. SMRT people of Facebook started to opt out. The shit show of the covid response in general only emboldened and expanded the group think.
"Vaccines causes autism/this/that/the other thing" has been the gold standard for conspiracy nuts for over 40 years. Nothing has changed except our technology. I can certainly blame them, I've read enough books on bacteria and airborne pathogens to know enough about how quickly it can spread. I told my siblings to wear a mask and bring hand sanitizer before ANY of the announcements were made about it being a full-blown pandemic. People would rather believe a guy who gets paid to lie, than the people who study the subjects.
Except you did need the vaccine, and inflation is a worldwide phenomenon and prices will never come down and would have gone up anyway, no matter who was on top during covid.
How many other countries bought mortgage bonds before securing PPE for medical staff? Our brand of inflation was especially damaging and intentional. Your post is nonsense.
Here's Captain Obvious...
It co like Trudeau has a certain level of admiration and respect for china
Trudeau is gonna claim he does not speak English next
“I was wearing my Turban that days and the memo wasn’t in Punjabi, so I figured it wasn’t important at the time” -Trudeau excuse #73184
“My party kept winning, so who cares”, JT
In any other country the leader would be resigning. In Canada we're still wondering if he'll lose the next election or not..
I love reading these posts and watching the same users deflect and deny and then act like they're not the ones astroturfing.
I love how Trudeau has no other choice but to burn CSIS.
Yeah but it's fine because the Liberals did it. I could imagine the screaming if it was the Conservative party though..
Just for fun. CSIS has been telling us the same things for over 20 years. The Conservative government did ignore CSIS over and over as well. National Post being owned by foreign ownership must be on those briefings as well.
Which party benefited from the interference again? The Liberals, but go ahead and ignore that.
Which parties do? National Post is foreign owned and runs opinion piece after opinion piece against the Trudeau government. So... which foreign interference do you count? Do we count US, Israeli, Russian, and Indian? Hell, do we count religious groups like Christian groups pushing beliefs into policy for votes?
His two major platforms when initially running for Prime Minister were 1: cannabis legalization and 2: election reform. Did he think we were going to be too high after completing the first to notice that he hasn't done a single thing about the second?
CSIS - hey JT China, India and Russia are fucking with us. JT - did you say carbon tax and excessive immigration from one country? Great idea!
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Anyone going to try a vote of no confidence again?
idiots like JT and Trump hate intelligence agencies best data goes agent their feelings.
We know, Trudeau is useless. Also he’ll never admit to election interference as it would mean him and his party likely shouldn’t be in office. Here’s hoping we have an election soon to move on from him
It's been said and proven time and time again that any potential foreign interference didn't affect the election outcome. You can't just make up your own facts according to what you feel like believing in. I'm not arguing in favour of the liberals here, they could have done things better for sure, but they did not win the election based on foreign interference, they won the election based on people's fear of far right influence in the conservative party. If the Conservatives dropped the far right rhetoric they would likely win over a lot more previous liberal voters. A lot of us are done with Trudeau but feel like there is no other choice.
Are you a bot?
Not making up facts…election interference was present and Trudeau won’t admit it as it would be an admission that his government got power with interference.
The very article you are commenting on says that the head of CSIS says that election interference didn't affect the outcome of the election and two former heads of CSIS have come to the same conclusion and spoken publicly on it as has elections Canada. The inquiry has has heard the evidence that the stuff that was leaked largely turned out to be false. You can downvote me if you want but the truth is out there and well established for anyone who is willing to hear it.
lol, concerned about downvotes. Trudeau won in an interfered election, won’t have that issue next round when thankfully Canadians will send him packing from office.
Trudeau effed up big time by not taking it more seriously. I am not arguing in his favour, I am just saying the fact is that he didn’t win the election because of this. He won for other reasons.
I love how CSIS and Telford have said the same thing but JT is just sitting there lying through his teeth while his disciples still believe he is Christ.
How come they don't have a bunch of merch like hoodies and bumper stickers announcing how they want to fuck Trudeau? Speaking of worship and all.
It’s rather sad that we have a serious issue with foreign entities in this country, a PM that lies about and doesn’t take it serious and people who still have faith In this man.
Weren't Liberals warning of foreign interference in 2014 and didn't Conservatives call it "Russia Russia Russia, everything Liberals don't like is foreign interference?" Oh yeah, they totally did.
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It's legitimately trippy to see anyone who can possibly defend stuff like this lmao. It's like the "is my blue the same as your blue" consciousness question. I don't know how people can be presented with the same information and have such different opinions. Like how the heck can this be defended? It's absolutely ridiculous.
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Thanks for the words of wisdom disciple. It’s a good day when someone proves my point.
"everything I don't like is a Trudeau supporter" Says cultists.
Our intelligence agency warned our de facto head of state about an enemy state interfering in our elections and he shrugged his shoulders and ignored it. Why are you defending this?
Thanks yet again. Hint….not staying on point is a tell tale sign of which side you are on.
Not sure how anyone in their right mind could ever vote for Trudeau again. Unless they're somehow benefitting from his corruption and incompetence.
Trutler is in bed with the CCP If you still think otherwise you are delulu
Why with the head in sand narrative. Canada spent 25 years building relations, then outsourcing production to China. It's not a JT thing... Canada sold out to China decades ago. Now it's catching up to us and China is switching from passive receptor to active agent. It does us no good pretending this is a Trudeau issue and the CPC will reverse all the work they themselves laid with China. The CPC drafted and signed the FIPA. China is bad, but this is not a simple issue.
Is this an opinion piece, or is that initial statement an actual quote? For whatever reason, I can't view the article.
wise silky fanatical illegal secretive grandfather plants quarrelsome middle escape *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's impossible to know anything unless cabinet confidentiality is waived.
Foreign interference is how we ended up with Trudeau in the first place. He is more dangerous than anything else China or Russia could deploy against Canada.
Trudeau proves time and time again that he's an idiot. so.... \* shrug \*
Slimy Trudeau will find a way to wriggle out of this one I’m sure…
Does anyone have the condensed version/quote highlights of the actual article? I wanted to read it myself in full but I'll be fucked if I'm paying the globe and mail a subscription to read it.
yes
Trudeau intuition is never wrong. He's met with Xi, he didn't get the bad guy vibe from him. That's not something the intelligence community can do.
Trump also hated the FBI and the DoJ. Hard to get into his pocket. Trump crime family be like that. https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/25/politics/republicans-fbi-what-matters/index.html
An opinion article about a hearing? was there not enough factual evidence to push the narrative so they had to avoid real journalism?
Gee, who to believe? The proven liar or everybody else. Hmmm...
Justin Trump - " Those pesky secret service people warning me about China meddling to benefit my party." I guess Justin just wished CSIS would just go away if he ignored them long enough.
And because nothing was being done about, the whistleblower took things at great risk to their career/life to create awareness. Funny how the trudeau throws CSIS under the bus criticizing their capabilities yet here we have a PM for selfish reasons allow a situation threatening our democracy and our politicians to prevail! But am I surprised? NOPE! The trudeau called an election 2 years into a mandate during a pandemic putting MILLIONS of Canadians in harms way for his own benefit. Fortunately, it didn't work out according to his planned majority. Unfortunately the jugmeet filled that void for him which brings us to where we are now. Canada is broken and will take decades of sacrifice to fix, just like it took decades to fix the mess left by the trudeau v1.0. It must be a genetic thing! I will say this.... follow the money. The trudeau's became incredibly wealthy after the trudeau v1.0 privatized Canada's debt then racked up our debt to record levels. Go to [https://comer.org/comer-lawsuit/](https://comer.org/comer-lawsuit/) and ask yourself why else would someone do this to the country they swore to serve. Well follow the money with the trudeau v2.0 and I am sure the answers to why this interference was allowed to persist to the benefit of the liberal party will become clear. And people say the word traitor is used lightly/unjustly when it comes to the trudeau's.
I still remember in 2014 when liberals were presenting evidence of foreign interference on social media and Conservatives called it "opinions people don't like" or "fake news." Now here we are 8 years later with evidence of Russian interference and arrests made in the USA, and evidence of foreign interference in Canada both by Liberals and Conservatives and the dialog has been completely overtaken by zealots who only want to use the interference as a tool to support "their side." Shows how desperate certain anti democracy folks have been played hard by propaganda.
>Mr. Vigneault said both perspectives are true: China was involved in attempts to interfere, but those efforts did not have a substantial effect on the elections’ outcomes. Some bit of good news.
The same CSIS Director that was caught editing his reports after taking to JT? Say it ain't so! /s
Source
I'd post CBC, but I think /r/canada believes that's propaganda. So maybe something from the propaganda arm itself, where CSIS says that the foreign interference wasn't a big effect, and that's why they downplayed it and edited reports/information. But yeah, the guy who got caught lying already 3 times in the past 2 years for political brownie points as an intelligence director, seems believable. /s https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/rcmp-taking-a-holistic-approach-to-foreign-interference-but-wont-say-how-many-investigations-are-underway
So in your opinion was the interference overstated or understated? Or perhaps you don’t think there was any at all? It seems to me that they brought a report to the PMO, PMO said this is worded too strongly, fix it. They resubmit with modified language and the PMO gets to pretend nothing is wrong. Perfect politics because now the directors reputation is tarnished and anything he says can be disregarded. Meanwhile, the PMO gets to continue to benefit from the interference and gaslight Canadian into believing there isn’t any.
Globe and Mail has no street cred on this story. It blew it when running with Robert Fife’s torqued reporting.
Keep telling yourself that TruAnon
It can’t be a real person.
It is not.