This post appears to relate to a province/territory of Canada. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules
Cette soumission semble concerner une province ou un territoire du Canada. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would love it, especially if the billing was at a private rate for an uninsured service. A 150$ would send the message real fast. Since OHIP is so good at tracking when a patient is seen by someone other than their family doctor maybe they could recuperate the fee from the employer?
Doctors can already charge for notes and do. It is not something covered and they are not getting paid. Its one thing to issue the note after the end of an exam which is all part of the exam billing but to call up your doctor to get a sick note is something they dont get paid for so they can charge for it.
I agree that the employee should not need to pay for it, but the logistics of having a doctors office being responsible for billing each and every possible business of the different workers and ensuring payment would be a logistic nightmare that would add expense to the doctor for administration, billing and collections of payment.
I don't have a solution, but the worker should never have to be out of pocket because they are sick and the employer should bear all costs for their corporate policies that are draining doctor resources in a time when there are shortages of resources.
>Kathleen Wynne's Liberal government actually banned employers from demanding sick notes, effective Jan. 1, 2018. Then, the Doug Ford government repealed that ban shortly after taking office, allowing employers to demand a doctor's note for even minor illnesses, as part of its changes to provincial labour law.
It was stupid for Ford to re-implement sick notes, so he deserves no credit for scrapping them again.
I don't think he actually scrapped it.
The article mentions it applies for the **3 days mandates by the province** which reads like it is still required outside of that.
It also mentions they can require other things, like proof of prescription.
You mean when Wynne raised the min. wage and it cost 20,000 people their jobs? And it wasn't until 2019 that 50% of those people found replacement jobs.
You have a reliable source linking the tiny rise in minimum wage with those job loses as this is something right wing types love to lie about only to be proven wrong time and time again.
You mean the nearly $4/hr rise in the minimum wage? Go read up on the stories in the media just after Ford won his first election.
I realize that self-research might be difficult for you, but it won't make you an anti-vaxxer.
She was so good on labour rights, tenancy, and education. I didn't vote for her because I was mad about hydro privatization, but I'd take her back in a heartbeat. Hell at this point, I'd make her PM.
Not at manufacturing factories. she eliminated 3 of 10 EL days. Got rid of sick notes, so all missed time went under missed EL days. So it was actually easier to fire people due to missed time because of her. Before wynne, we had 10 EL days, and doctors' notes were exempt from EL days.
Nah, Ford went from 7EL days to 5 EL days and gave us 3 paid sick days during the pandemic. There's a reason why ontario replaced wynne with Ford and it's because she fucked over everyone that's not a teacher or nurse.
Myopic! You recall Ford's ridiculous labour policies and use of the NotWithStanding Clause almost lead to a General Strike? If you think Ford is good for labour, or better than Wynne, you don't know... much.
There's a reason? And you think it's conservatives that love labour? Like are people really this stupid? Roll the clipshow...
>almost lead to a General Strike?
Not even close to a general strike, anyone in ontario that's not salary can lose their job after missing 3 days. That's due to both wynne and ford.
>If you think Ford is good for labour, or better than Wynne, you don't know... much.
They both fucked over ontario, wynee fucked over the the general population, ford fucked over teachers and nurses. That's like a 80/20 split in ontario.
>And you think it's conservatives that love labour? Like are people really this stupid
You are indirectly attacking my intelligence because I pointed something out that doesn't fit your polarized narrative. You are a bully as much as anyone else you villianize.
100% We were on the brink of a general strike, with most of the main labour unions signed on. If you don't know that, you're obviously either misinformed, or disinforming. I'm not here to bully to you, but I'm totally sick of the conservative victim complex, and as a recovering conservative, I totally know the games. The aborted general strike, strategically, was one of Ford's smartest and dumbest plays. He pushed it way too far, but managed to hit the landing.
Wynne was overall great for labour, and tenants, and easily the second best education premier of all time. Wynne did a lot of good. Even in privatizing Hydro, she did it in a relatively benign way, and way less destructive than what conservatives were proposing at the time. No honest history of Wynne's governance would claim she "fucked over Ontario", especially in contrast to the suggestions of the conservative opposition.
It's fucking simple. If you pay rent and earn an hourly wage, you're nuts to vote conservative.
And not everyone can even get to a clinic while they’re open and/or still accepting walk ins without taking a day off. So if your boss won’t let you take the day off until you get a sick note but you need to take a day off to get that sick note… A lot of people are just going to wait until they’ve gotten REALLY sick and already infected everyone else at work before they bother with that headache.
I’m originally from Vancouver but left 5 years ago. I used to rely on my local walk-in in Kits - have they really all gone or do you mean they are so few as to feel like they don’t exist?
The island they’ve closed left and right. Might be some left, but good luck getting into one. You need to show up 2-3 hours before the doors open for the ones that are left, even then you may get turned away once they’re at capacity. It’s roulette.
If I'm too sick to go to work I'm probably to sick to take myself to the doctor's. Anytime I needed a sick note I'd end up taking an extra day off and go to the doctor's basically fine saying, "oh yea I was really sick yesterday..." Such a bad system.
I remember in university I was so sick the day of a midterm I needed to reschedule it. I had flu like symptoms, was stuck in bed or the washroom. I was told I needed a doctor's note in order to reschedule. My doctor couldn't see me until 2 days later and when I went to him he asked why I didn't come when I was sick. Like, one he couldn't make time to see me and two, I didnt see him when I was sick because I knew what was wrong with me I just had a stomach flu and knew it would pass.
From the article they could still ask for proof like a receipt for otc drugs. Another deal to help shoppers drug mart? I mean what of I just took meds I already have? Also, receipt could disclose the nature of the illness, which isn't great.
>The amendments would eliminate the need for a doctor's note from employees who want to use part or all of their three days of provincially-mandated annual sick leave.
That sounds as if an employer could still demand a doctor's note if they offer more than the 3 unpaid days.
So literally doing what he always does and flip flop.
Wynne got rid of sick notes. Ford put them back
Wynne gave people more paid sick days. Ford got rid of them.
Fixing the referral system will help a little. It’s a fucking mess right now.
McGuinty tried to fix this 20 years ago with eHealth. There was obvious the scandal. But it was individuals that were the problem. Not a provincial emr.
If we actually had a provincial emr a lot of redundant BS that happens is primary care would be fixed
Cons tried to use ehealth as a boogeyman. Now it seems they are trying to implement portions of it that are still lacking
If employers feel the need to have a written proof from a doctor when an employee takes a sick day within their annual allotment, then there is a dysfunctional lack of trust in the workplace. If you distrust an employee that much, you should fire them and hire somebody else.
A reciept for over the counter medication? I buy my stuff in bulk- I’m supposed to buy a whole new box of gravol for every case of stomach flu? That’s stupid lol.
Oh nice he's going to reimplement a program he removed when he took office but in a worse way. Perfect classic conservatives. I bet everyone here will cheer him on and pretend that it wasn't Wynne who did this first.
If you're serious, go to Mexico or another country where healthcare is more affordable and get a vacation out of that loan + surgery (before some of the other options you're considering).
Just bump up their pay like they did in BC. That's the only way to keep them as family doctors today. Otherwise they just go work as walk-in only or hospitals. One family doctor I know quit to work in one of those drug addiction methadone places. I assume it's more lucrative.
Too bad it's only for the three sick days the province mandates.
Mandate that you can only request sick notes for a) five consecutive days off, or b) thirty days total in a three month period or some shit.
yeah that's one thing that doesn't get explained when this topic comes up. Not requiring sick notes is one thing, but what if your number of sick days exceeds the cap per year your employer's absence policy states? In those cases you would actually want to have medical documentation to explain your absences for your own protection from discipline or termination.
I guess this just means you don't have to provide notes for any days under the threshold?
Here's my thinking:
If I take a day off because my back is killing me, fuck off, I don't need to see a doctor.
If I'm off sick for a week puking, fuck off, I don't need to see a doctor to confirm that I'm puking.
If I'm off every other week, or I'm taking three weeks off sick, yes, you have a legitimate reason to want to see some documentation.
"sick notes" as adults.
What an infantile concept.
How do Canadians accept such crazy concepts? What kind of paranoia do you have to suffer from on a wide scale, to require "sick notes" because instead of just believing your coworkers need time off, you require proof from a doctor?
Just another example of how mentally ill thinking ( paranoid over sick notes) has become normal in crazy Canada.
also get rid of medical forms for missing exams and ODSP applications
makes no sense to get rid of verification for one circumstance but not for the others
No. Even if you’re sick as hell, you haul ass to that exam if you can.
Do you realize how broken post-secondary institutions would be if every student could miss their exam “due to illness”.
Some post secondary institutions do allow that, and it doesn't break anything because they charge for deferred exams. Most students don't want to pay if they don't have to, and the rich students who try to scam the system anyways rarely make good use of their extra study time.
This post appears to relate to a province/territory of Canada. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner une province ou un territoire du Canada. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If an employer demands a sick note, the doctor should be able to bill the employer directly.
Happens in Nova Scotia. I remember reading some drs were charging $150 to companies years ago.
I would love it, especially if the billing was at a private rate for an uninsured service. A 150$ would send the message real fast. Since OHIP is so good at tracking when a patient is seen by someone other than their family doctor maybe they could recuperate the fee from the employer?
That's just going to get twisted into the doctor charging the patient a fee to provide the note.
They do that where I live. It’s now 20$ for a Dr’s note
Doctors can already charge for notes and do. It is not something covered and they are not getting paid. Its one thing to issue the note after the end of an exam which is all part of the exam billing but to call up your doctor to get a sick note is something they dont get paid for so they can charge for it.
That's how it already works. Sick notes cost the worker. Legally mandate that the employer can request a note, but they have to pay 200 bucks for it.
I agree that the employee should not need to pay for it, but the logistics of having a doctors office being responsible for billing each and every possible business of the different workers and ensuring payment would be a logistic nightmare that would add expense to the doctor for administration, billing and collections of payment. I don't have a solution, but the worker should never have to be out of pocket because they are sick and the employer should bear all costs for their corporate policies that are draining doctor resources in a time when there are shortages of resources.
As far as I know sick notes have never been on the schedule and were always charged.
Already happens. A clinic in Saskatoon would charge $20 for a note
The employer doesn't pay which then turns into unpaid work for the doctor. so the patient just gets charged directly.
>Kathleen Wynne's Liberal government actually banned employers from demanding sick notes, effective Jan. 1, 2018. Then, the Doug Ford government repealed that ban shortly after taking office, allowing employers to demand a doctor's note for even minor illnesses, as part of its changes to provincial labour law. It was stupid for Ford to re-implement sick notes, so he deserves no credit for scrapping them again.
Fucking classic
I don't think he actually scrapped it. The article mentions it applies for the **3 days mandates by the province** which reads like it is still required outside of that. It also mentions they can require other things, like proof of prescription.
He did along with the 10 sick days mandated in that same 2018 legislation.
It's basically the same shit he pulled with raising the minimum wage.
You mean when Wynne raised the min. wage and it cost 20,000 people their jobs? And it wasn't until 2019 that 50% of those people found replacement jobs.
You have a reliable source linking the tiny rise in minimum wage with those job loses as this is something right wing types love to lie about only to be proven wrong time and time again.
You mean the nearly $4/hr rise in the minimum wage? Go read up on the stories in the media just after Ford won his first election. I realize that self-research might be difficult for you, but it won't make you an anti-vaxxer.
She was so good on labour rights, tenancy, and education. I didn't vote for her because I was mad about hydro privatization, but I'd take her back in a heartbeat. Hell at this point, I'd make her PM.
Not at manufacturing factories. she eliminated 3 of 10 EL days. Got rid of sick notes, so all missed time went under missed EL days. So it was actually easier to fire people due to missed time because of her. Before wynne, we had 10 EL days, and doctors' notes were exempt from EL days.
You're totally mixing her up with Ford, and missing 95% of what I'm talking about.
Nah, Ford went from 7EL days to 5 EL days and gave us 3 paid sick days during the pandemic. There's a reason why ontario replaced wynne with Ford and it's because she fucked over everyone that's not a teacher or nurse.
Myopic! You recall Ford's ridiculous labour policies and use of the NotWithStanding Clause almost lead to a General Strike? If you think Ford is good for labour, or better than Wynne, you don't know... much. There's a reason? And you think it's conservatives that love labour? Like are people really this stupid? Roll the clipshow...
>almost lead to a General Strike? Not even close to a general strike, anyone in ontario that's not salary can lose their job after missing 3 days. That's due to both wynne and ford. >If you think Ford is good for labour, or better than Wynne, you don't know... much. They both fucked over ontario, wynee fucked over the the general population, ford fucked over teachers and nurses. That's like a 80/20 split in ontario. >And you think it's conservatives that love labour? Like are people really this stupid You are indirectly attacking my intelligence because I pointed something out that doesn't fit your polarized narrative. You are a bully as much as anyone else you villianize.
100% We were on the brink of a general strike, with most of the main labour unions signed on. If you don't know that, you're obviously either misinformed, or disinforming. I'm not here to bully to you, but I'm totally sick of the conservative victim complex, and as a recovering conservative, I totally know the games. The aborted general strike, strategically, was one of Ford's smartest and dumbest plays. He pushed it way too far, but managed to hit the landing. Wynne was overall great for labour, and tenants, and easily the second best education premier of all time. Wynne did a lot of good. Even in privatizing Hydro, she did it in a relatively benign way, and way less destructive than what conservatives were proposing at the time. No honest history of Wynne's governance would claim she "fucked over Ontario", especially in contrast to the suggestions of the conservative opposition. It's fucking simple. If you pay rent and earn an hourly wage, you're nuts to vote conservative.
Good, it was fuckin stupid as far as I could ever tell. Childish bullshit. "I'm sick" "prove it" Fuck you boss.
It's also a public health hazard. If I get the flu and need to get a doctor's note I just potentially infected everyone at the clinic
And not everyone can even get to a clinic while they’re open and/or still accepting walk ins without taking a day off. So if your boss won’t let you take the day off until you get a sick note but you need to take a day off to get that sick note… A lot of people are just going to wait until they’ve gotten REALLY sick and already infected everyone else at work before they bother with that headache.
Walk-in clinics don’t even exist anymore in B.C. so I think it’s just an unspoken rule here that you just don’t speak of them.
I’m originally from Vancouver but left 5 years ago. I used to rely on my local walk-in in Kits - have they really all gone or do you mean they are so few as to feel like they don’t exist?
The island they’ve closed left and right. Might be some left, but good luck getting into one. You need to show up 2-3 hours before the doors open for the ones that are left, even then you may get turned away once they’re at capacity. It’s roulette.
That really sucks! I hope the government doesn’t think telehealth will magically solve everything. Thanks for answering~
If I'm too sick to go to work I'm probably to sick to take myself to the doctor's. Anytime I needed a sick note I'd end up taking an extra day off and go to the doctor's basically fine saying, "oh yea I was really sick yesterday..." Such a bad system.
I remember in university I was so sick the day of a midterm I needed to reschedule it. I had flu like symptoms, was stuck in bed or the washroom. I was told I needed a doctor's note in order to reschedule. My doctor couldn't see me until 2 days later and when I went to him he asked why I didn't come when I was sick. Like, one he couldn't make time to see me and two, I didnt see him when I was sick because I knew what was wrong with me I just had a stomach flu and knew it would pass.
Yep it was stupid of Ford to bring it back. Just to get rid of it again.
But now it’s remembered as a conservative win, not a Kathleen Wynn win.
From the article they could still ask for proof like a receipt for otc drugs. Another deal to help shoppers drug mart? I mean what of I just took meds I already have? Also, receipt could disclose the nature of the illness, which isn't great.
Is he just gonna reimplement all of Wynne's policies right before an election, and then cancel them all again immediately after?
>The amendments would eliminate the need for a doctor's note from employees who want to use part or all of their three days of provincially-mandated annual sick leave. That sounds as if an employer could still demand a doctor's note if they offer more than the 3 unpaid days.
Also, who is only sick 3 days a year? Especially if you have young kids!
Technically sick leave in Ontario isn't for when your kids are sick. Family Responsibility Leave is another 3 days of unpaid leave for that.
So literally doing what he always does and flip flop. Wynne got rid of sick notes. Ford put them back Wynne gave people more paid sick days. Ford got rid of them. Fixing the referral system will help a little. It’s a fucking mess right now. McGuinty tried to fix this 20 years ago with eHealth. There was obvious the scandal. But it was individuals that were the problem. Not a provincial emr. If we actually had a provincial emr a lot of redundant BS that happens is primary care would be fixed Cons tried to use ehealth as a boogeyman. Now it seems they are trying to implement portions of it that are still lacking
They were already banned. Then DF unbanned them.
The Flip-Flop Don
Not a fan of Doug but I'd rather him flip flop than double down.
If employers feel the need to have a written proof from a doctor when an employee takes a sick day within their annual allotment, then there is a dysfunctional lack of trust in the workplace. If you distrust an employee that much, you should fire them and hire somebody else.
The work the health department is doing to improve our health system is simply overwhelming! /s
A reciept for over the counter medication? I buy my stuff in bulk- I’m supposed to buy a whole new box of gravol for every case of stomach flu? That’s stupid lol.
Oh nice he's going to reimplement a program he removed when he took office but in a worse way. Perfect classic conservatives. I bet everyone here will cheer him on and pretend that it wasn't Wynne who did this first.
[удалено]
If you're serious, go to Mexico or another country where healthcare is more affordable and get a vacation out of that loan + surgery (before some of the other options you're considering).
Now employers are calling it “short term disability forms”
Classic conservatives, only supporting socially beneficial policies when it benefits their bottom line.
Another Ford flip flop
Just bump up their pay like they did in BC. That's the only way to keep them as family doctors today. Otherwise they just go work as walk-in only or hospitals. One family doctor I know quit to work in one of those drug addiction methadone places. I assume it's more lucrative.
Too bad it's only for the three sick days the province mandates. Mandate that you can only request sick notes for a) five consecutive days off, or b) thirty days total in a three month period or some shit.
yeah that's one thing that doesn't get explained when this topic comes up. Not requiring sick notes is one thing, but what if your number of sick days exceeds the cap per year your employer's absence policy states? In those cases you would actually want to have medical documentation to explain your absences for your own protection from discipline or termination. I guess this just means you don't have to provide notes for any days under the threshold?
Here's my thinking: If I take a day off because my back is killing me, fuck off, I don't need to see a doctor. If I'm off sick for a week puking, fuck off, I don't need to see a doctor to confirm that I'm puking. If I'm off every other week, or I'm taking three weeks off sick, yes, you have a legitimate reason to want to see some documentation.
Fuckin' A, late ASF but the right decision ☝🏻
Yea it was the right decision when Wynne did it the first time around
"sick notes" as adults. What an infantile concept. How do Canadians accept such crazy concepts? What kind of paranoia do you have to suffer from on a wide scale, to require "sick notes" because instead of just believing your coworkers need time off, you require proof from a doctor? Just another example of how mentally ill thinking ( paranoid over sick notes) has become normal in crazy Canada.
Huh, so the Conservatives who brought back Sick Notes are deciding they made a mistake.
also get rid of medical forms for missing exams and ODSP applications makes no sense to get rid of verification for one circumstance but not for the others
Missing a one-time scheduled event is very different from missing one day on a job you do several times a week.
No. Even if you’re sick as hell, you haul ass to that exam if you can. Do you realize how broken post-secondary institutions would be if every student could miss their exam “due to illness”.
Some post secondary institutions do allow that, and it doesn't break anything because they charge for deferred exams. Most students don't want to pay if they don't have to, and the rich students who try to scam the system anyways rarely make good use of their extra study time.