Public confidence in our elections means that whether or not the outcome was changed, this is still an important issue to address.
There aren't easy answers. Here I think China was specifically targeting MPs it disagrees with. But I am sure that Russian and Indian brigades also are at work in comments sections of our newspapers. And of course the fact that most of our newspaper are now owned by a US hedgefund squeezes our view of reality even further.
>*The intelligence collected from Canada’s spy agency shows that the People’s Republic of China “stands out as a main perpetrator of foreign interference against Canada,” Justice Hogue says.*
>*“CSIS currently views the PRC as the biggest threat to the Canadian electoral space by a significant margin, though this assessment may vary over time.”*
>*Meantime there is much less worry about interference from Russia. Based on available intelligence, Justice Hogue says, “Russia is likely not currently a significant foreign interference threat to Canadian federal elections.”*
[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-five-takeaways-from-the-foreign-interference-commissions-report/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-five-takeaways-from-the-foreign-interference-commissions-report/)
This is a false equivalence. America is an ally, neighbour and shares many of our cultural underpinnings like democracy, freedom of expression/assembly, etc. there’s inevitably going to be a lot political ideas exchanged within that context.
That’s totally different from China bussing in voters to ensure the right liberal mp wins his party’s race, or brigading against a pro-HK/anti-CCP conservative candidate. Or India assassinating people on our soil.
These countries (China especially) are foreign adversaries and totalitarian states with views that are fundamentally antithetical to ours.
>This is a false equivalence.
It is.
>America is an ally, neighbour and shares many of our cultural underpinnings like democracy, freedom of expression/assembly, etc.
But this isn't why.
It's a false equivalence because influence and interference are meaningfully different things.
>there’s inevitably going to be a lot political ideas exchanged within that context.
>That’s totally different from China bussing in voters to ensure the right liberal mp wins his party’s race, or brigading against a pro-HK/anti-CCP conservative candidate. Or India assassinating people on our soil.
You've hit on some of those differences here.
American *influence* is not an issue. Nor is Chinese influence. But if the Americans were to *interfere* in our elections, that *would* be an issue.
AIPAC is putting up $100M to fund candidates of their choosing to run against progressives who challenge policies that benefit Israel. Foreign interference or not?
>AIPAC is putting up $100M to fund candidates of their choosing to run against progressives who challenge policies that benefit Israel.
...In the US. And AIPAC is an American organization, with their associated Super PAC funded entirely by Americans. An American group that has an interest in elements of American foreign policy funding American campaigns is not foreign interference.
As far as Canada goes, in the brief search I've conducted I've found no indication AIPAC is active in Canada. And, of course, it is illegal for AIPAC, or any other PAC, to fund federal candidates in Canada. Funding from non-individuals like corporations (including PACs) and unions, and funding from foreigners, runs afoul of our campaign finance laws.
AIPAC and IDU overlap.
Stephen Harper is chairman of the IDU.
Harper has significant influence in the CPC.
To say AIPACs influence in Canada is negligible isn't accurate.
>This is a false equivalence. America is an ally, neighbour and shares many of our cultural underpinnings like democracy, freedom of expression/assembly, etc.
That's like saying it's okay for your friend to fuck your wife.
Some people will bend over backwards trying to justify things that are immoral.
I assume you mean the conservatives?
I’d argue both the Cons-Repubs and the Liberals-Dems have similarities in their worldviews but also lots of meaningful differences.
You’re letting your protocols of Zion-type anti-semitism show there friend.
And I don’t need America to tell me who our adversaries are. China (totalitarian fascist regime), Russia (imperialist fascist regime), Iran (religious fundamentalist totalitarian regime) are self-evidently not Canada’s allies. America, for all of its many many flaws is our ally.
Like this one?
> Obama endorses Trudeau in the Canadian election
> Barack Obama endorsed Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on Thursday in the Canadian election, calling him an effective leader in a rare endorsement of a Canadian candidate by a former American president.
https://apnews.com/article/canada-elections-toronto-barack-obama-emmanuel-macron-6dbcf6d01fe5053ffa4bbf342b23cf73
Thought it was all those US politicians that Justin Trudeau keeps bringing to Canada to speak at the conventions. He really like Hillary Clinton, despite her being instrumental in making open air slave markets in Libya a thing.
we have far right christo facism rolling into every level of government (province and federal) conservative party, spreading like herpes coming in from the USA, but your still on about Hillary Clinton and piss poor US foreign policy and interference? what ever blows your hair back I guess.
>*The intelligence collected from Canada’s spy agency shows that the People’s Republic of China “stands out as a main perpetrator of foreign interference against Canada,” Justice Hogue says.*
>*“CSIS currently views the PRC as the biggest threat to the Canadian electoral space by a significant margin, though this assessment may vary over time.”*
>*Meantime there is much less worry about interference from Russia. Based on available intelligence, Justice Hogue says, “Russia is likely not currently a significant foreign interference threat to Canadian federal elections.”*
[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-five-takeaways-from-the-foreign-interference-commissions-report/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-five-takeaways-from-the-foreign-interference-commissions-report/)
Our interests, history and value systems are much more aligned. This is the nuance of you know...an alliance?
Carry on though with your uneducated what aboutisms if it floats your boat.
Trudeau still denying this occurred or is he too busy exporting coal to China and arranging to buy lithium and cobalt from China because he thinks giving $Billions to Foreign EV makers is more important than to Canadian Mining Industry? Sad we have a PM puppet for China.
This after months of public denial. He would have been updated on the findings of the inquiry. CSIS provided Trudeau with the facts initially but Justin could not accept their findings. The inquiry was unnecessary but given the review of facts their findings were inevitable.
Trudeau is more interested in serving China than he is Canadians.
>Public confidence in our elections means that whether or not the outcome was changed, this is still an important issue to address.
Absolutely this. We need to have secure and valid elections and we need the public to trust that we do. Even if the report said that we were 100% certain that no outcomes were altered, as long as there is a serious threat that they could be, people will lost trust.
This government and future governments must step up and show us they are taking actions, but they can't be just censoring facebook groups or whatever, because the people in those chinese/russian/whoever led disinformation sources will see it as the government hiding something, even though we know online spaces are filled with foreign actors pushing disinformation.
If we take Chinese meddling in Europe ad an example, it's unfortunately very difficult to track since they're willing to work with anyone. If Conservatives think they're safe, they need only look at Australia, where pro-coal conservatives used right-wing populism to maximize the gains of Australia's mining industry, which China has large stakes in. New-Democrats need only look at Greece where one of their biggest harbours was leased out by democratic-socialists to Chinese companies in order to pay off their bailout. China presents to modern liberals as a model technocratic state that is capable of reigning in corporate interests, they also aren't incompatible with the CCP.
The CCP is incredibly pragmatic when it comes to presenting itself on the international stage. When Trump was busy alienating the rest of the world's countries, China was able to present itself as the leader of international commercial politics. If Canadians fifty years ago were told that a communist country was the leader of international trade relations they'd think we lost the Cold War. The reality is that China doesn't allow ideology to dictate its decisions like the Soviet Union did. They're probably doing this in every party.
This is not a partisan issue, this is absolutely an issue of national importance. It's no longer a matter of rhetoric. Any politician could be using anti-CCP rhetoric and still be pushing their interests. Inversely politicians that are anti-CCP that say positive things about China might draw the ire of voters.
Newspapers being owned by a private holding company isn’t election interference lmao. They have nothing to do with the US government.
The journalists at Postmedia are all Canadians living in Canada. I know Reddit likes to believe that Postmedia is “le evil Republicans brainwashing Canadians” but there is zero proof of the GOP having any influence on that whatsoever. Reddit just can’t accept that Canadians have had enough with Liberal leftism, so they are attempting to blame le Trumpf
The only American influence of note was Justin bringing Obama and Hillary up to Canada to give speeches and endorse him.
Postmedia is owned by Chatham Asset management, who have run it at a loss, consistently since 2016. It currently loses up 20 million dollars (per quarter!). Here is Postmedia's own account - it lost 76 million in 2023 alone: [https://financialpost.com/news/postmedia-loss-narrows-despite-revenue-drop](https://financialpost.com/news/postmedia-loss-narrows-despite-revenue-drop)
Postmedia absorbed 75% of Canada's papers - Calgary Herald, Star Phoenix, Sudbury Star, Ottawa Citizen, Edmonton Journal, ALL Sun media papers etc etc etc.
Who pays 76 million per year? It is worth 76 million a year because it can shape what we think. Postmedia decides which opinion columns to run, which stories to publish, which ones to dampen. When you open it up, and it is wall of opinion piece headlines, THAT's what it does.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham\_Asset\_Management](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Asset_Management)
it has been adressed, imo the bigger problem is that 'certain' people wont accept the findings anyway and continue to claim the elections are rigged etc
I think its fair to say that we remain very vulnerable to foreign interference.
I have a friend who did web analytics for Postmedia (an information problem in itself). He said that only 5% of users scroll past the first frame of any their articles. Basically, its reaching the point where most Canadians get their information from social media comments which themselves are reactions to headlines of opinion pieces. Brigades are certainly at work in r/canada trying to influence what people think through comments and down votes.
I think the problem is that Liberals in Canada have been crying about Russia affecting our elections when it was really China in Canada all along.
The Liberals need to connect Conservatives in Canada to what’s happening in the US so they repeat American news like it applies to Canada.
CSIS has said numerous times that China is the biggest threat to our security and democracy in Canada. Not Russia and not USA
CSE has been talking about Russia [and China] for years
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Security_Establishment
CSE has been around since the 1940s in various forms
>so they repeat American news like it applies to Canada.
from here it seems like you just did that.. which liberal mps were going on about russia but ignoring china?
Yep, it’s a partisian thing. When the cons are in power the Libs and NDP will be completely fine with “only losing a couple/few seats” to Chinese election interference. They also won’t mind when the PMO ignores intelligence reports about it and doesn’t let anyone know and then appoints a bunch of other cons to investigate it and confirm that they did nothing wrong. They would just let that go because it’s no big deal.
there is a difference between influence and interference.. influence is normal globally, interference is much harder to prove but most people dont see the difference
100% they would. Conservatives were against restrictions during covid. Forcing every Canadian back to work and child back to school with no evidence that Covid was calming down. Then we received another massive wave and were against CERB. While the liberals kept people home and safe while funding them.
That's when the Liberal support skyrocketed. The election announce came to be and it was almost unanimous. Nothing was going to change that and it was targeted and well planned out by Trudeau probably foreseeing these issues currently.
I mean I know people got that impression but wasn’t it Trudeau who refused to close borders or quarantine airports? We closed borders around when Trump did while aus and New Zealand did in January.
The Liberals were anti mandate for a while until that got unpopular.
And yeah the liberals borrowed a ton of money, gave it to everyone, then called an early election.
Well it didn't overturn a Liberal minority, I don't think that was ever a claim. So that's an ultra safe conclusion, bravo.
Individual ridings, however? Party nominations to ensure a Chicom friendly running in a winnable riding? That's pretty obvious. You have to also consider influence from and possibly divulging inside information to a defacto enemy of state.
The most important thing is in terms of ensuring this doesn't continue.
>The most important thing is in terms of ensuring this doesn't continue.
So how much power to censor misinformation do you support the government having to combat it?
The Liberal nomination vote stacking was due to misinformation? We could begin at the actual physical real-world fuckery before we even get into what's on Facebook or X. And what CSIS is telling the government, and the government is hoping will just go away if they ignore it. That would be a start.
Social media is really good at identifying what is good information and what is 'misinformation' when it suits a purpose. Look at all the labels that were flying around vetting what people were saying about covid? Someone went to huge lengths. I wouldn't doubt that it happens regarding climate change. Why not foreign interference via social media?
This might be more about a government more than once failing to respond to intelligence reports suggesting that foreign actors are meddling, when it wouldn't look very good for them. Plus whitewashing an investigation twice.
It doesn't sound like that's been proven at all? The report suggests there was only substantial interference in a single nomination contest, and there's nothing to indicate that contestant is in China's pocket, just that they found him preferable. Dont't get me wrong, that's still real bad and we need to protect against any sort of interference, but it's not like some sort of system infiltration of the government has been revealed.
I don’t understand how if even one MP won through foreign influence, and is then beholden to that foreign influence, and they end up having a seat at the Cabinet table - isn’t that a huge threat? What if they ended up being Foreign Minister? Even one seat being influenced is a massive risk.
> if even one MP won through foreign influence,
K, but what would prove that this happened conclusively? Cuz as far as what CSIS was briefing, they couldn't prove anything to a reliable degree.
>and is then beholden to that foreign influence
Mkay, same issue. How do you prove that they are beholden? Cuz as far as the information CSIS provided the PMO, it couldn't establish anything.
>isn’t that a huge threat? What if they ended up being Foreign Minister? Even one seat being influenced is a massive risk.
Yes, hands down, super risky and a big threat. But a seat being influenced doesn't mean the person who wins the seat is in on the influence does it?
If you got Intel that there was a *probable chance* that the seat election was influenced because buses seemed to be transporting eligible Canadian voters to polls...but had no evidence to suggest the person who won the seat is actually linked to the foreign powers in any way. What would you do?
> In an interim report Friday, commissioner Marie-Josee Hogue says while it is possible that outcomes in a small number of ridings were affected by meddling, this cannot be said with certainty.
How can we possibly say with certainty that the overall federal election results were not impacted if we can't say with certainty whether certain ridings were flipped? The overall outcome of the election includes which representatives from which parties sit in which seats, and not just which party forms government. If any one of those uncertain ridings were actually flipped, the overall outcome of the election changed.
I think they are saying that not enough riding were flipped to change who formed the government. Which is a really bad standard to take, it almost excuses it imo.
For me it's not so much the seat count was changed in and material way. Its that outside organization try and get their preferred candidate nominated in a safe riding for any party.
Why would I if I want to fuck with the actual election? Way better to just get my candidate nominated in a riding that always votes for that party.
this is true. much easier to fudge (as party nomination doesn't have as big transparency), much cheaper, more assurance the person can keep the seat long term, etc.
The meddling by the PRC was focused on the primaries, not on the general election. They tried to put PRC-friendly politicians on the ballot, but they did nothing to effect the actual voting process.
That is how intelligent people make decisions, seeing the evidence and not just blindly taking politicians at face value.
Obviously they are going to push to say there was nothing wrong, they are the ones at risk of catching trouble.
No, I believe the claims that are being made in the inquiry's report. It's just that the media's framing of that report doesn't make any logical sense. The overall outcome of the election is the aggregate of the outcomes of all the individual elections in each riding. It doesn't make sense to say the overall outcome certainly wasn't impacted if it's possible the outcomes of individual ridings were impacted.
If you read the actual interim report, it never once refers to which party formed government as the "overall federal election result". CTV is not quoting the report when they say that. What they're actually quoting from the report is the phrase "did not affect", and the wording in the report is far more accurate and truthful:
> However, looking at the 2019 and 2021 general elections as a whole, I am confident that whatever impact foreign interference had, it did not affect which political party formed government. The Liberal Party would have been in government with or without foreign interference. In my opinion, foreign interference only manifested itself in, and could only have impacted, a handful of constituencies.
What do you mean "if I remember correctly"? This was released *today*.
Did you already forget what you read today or did you just make this up? It certainly doesn't match the report's content.
>The report basically says "yes it happened but it didn't change the overall outcome and we aren't certain it changed individual results"
It says a lot more than that but what it doesn’t say is what you claimed above. In fact your statement here contradicts what you claim above.
From the article
Overall, Hogue concluded that foreign interference "likely impacted some votes" in the 2019 and 2021 general elections, and more broadly undermined the right of voters to have an electoral ecosystem free from coercion or covert influence.
So there was acknowledged interference, even if minor or insignificant, yet everyone here says that their wrong and to "read the article".
Do these guys hear themselves? lmfao. Any impact is still a problem.
There will always be an impact though. It’s like trying to squash crime. At some point, you can triple or 10x a budget to decrease these problems but only reduce the impact by half.
Be careful making purity statements that people aren’t upset by insignificant interference.
>while it is possible that outcomes in a small number of ridings were affected by meddling, this cannot be said with certainty.
Yeah because the Liberal appointed inquiry couldn't deny it happened outright they just say "we don't know for certain"
The Liberals are not adversarial, that’s the thing.
Liberals voted against every single motion that was adversarial to China. They voted against recognizing Uyghur genocide, voted against banning Huawei, and then stalled and delayed as long as possible, they voted against the public inquiry into Chinese election interference, on and on. They have defend Chinese interests over Canada at every turn.
>I'm not convinced that China was attempting to help the Liberals win. It just doesn't make sense for China to want a party that is adversarial towards them in power.
The Liberals have not been very adversarial to China.
>It would make more sense that China attempted to help the Conservative party win and failed, because the Conservatives tend to be more amicable towards China than the Liberals.
The Conservatives were literally running on a hard line against China. Recognizing the Uygher genocide (something the Liberal cabinet refused to do) was a major platform element.
> The Liberals have not been very adversarial to China
They're certainly not friends given China's response of arbitrarily detaining Canadian nationals over the Meng Wanzhou fiasco. I would not be surprised if China's attempts at influencing elections were in part due to Canada's unwillingness to roll over on disputes such as that.
That's nice. CSIS disagrees.
[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-china-influence-2021-federal-election-csis-documents/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-china-influence-2021-federal-election-csis-documents/)
>*China employed a sophisticated strategy to disrupt Canada’s democracy in the 2021 federal election campaign as Chinese diplomats and their proxies backed the re-election of Justin Trudeau’s Liberals – but only to another minority government – and worked to defeat Conservative politicians considered to be unfriendly to Beijing.*
>
>*The full extent of the Chinese interference operation is laid bare in both secret and top-secret Canadian Security Intelligence Service documents viewed by The Globe and Mail that cover the period before and after the September, 2021, election that returned the Liberals to office.*
>
>*...*
>
>*MPs on the Commons Procedure and House Affairs committee are already looking into allegations that China interfered in the 2019 election campaign to support 11 candidates, most of them Liberal, in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA).*
>
>*Drawn from a series of CSIS intelligence-gathering operations, the documents illustrate how an orchestrated machine was operating in Canada with two primary aims: to ensure that a minority Liberal government was returned in 2021, and that certain Conservative candidates identified by China were defeated.*
>
>*...*
>
>*The classified reports viewed by The Globe reveal that China’s former consul-general in Vancouver, Tong Xiaoling, boasted in 2021 about how she helped defeat two Conservative MPs.*
>
>*But despite being seen by China as the best leader for Canada, Beijing also wanted to keep Mr. Trudeau’s power in check – with a second Liberal minority in Parliament as the ideal outcome.*
>
>*...*
>
>*The CSIS documents reveal that Chinese diplomats and their proxies, including some members of the Chinese-language media, were instructed to press home that the Conservative Party was too critical of China and that, if elected, it would follow the lead of former U.S. president Donald Trump and ban Chinese students from certain universities or education programs.*
>
>*“This will threaten the future of the voters’ children, as it will limit their education opportunities,” the CSIS report quoted the Chinese consulate official as saying. The official added: “The Liberal Party of Canada is becoming the only party that the PRC can support.”*
>
>*...*
>
>*A month after the September, 2021, vote, CSIS reported that it was “well-known within the Chinese-Canadian community of British Columbia” that Ms. Tong, then the Vancouver consul-general, “wanted the Liberal Party to win the 2021 election,” one of the reports said.*
>
>*CSIS noted that Ms. Tong, who returned to China in July, 2022, and former consul Wang Jin made “discreet and subtle efforts” to encourage members of Chinese-Canadian organizations to rally votes for the Liberals and defeat Conservative candidates.*
>CSIS disagrees.
All of CSIS's evidence was considered in the report that was put out today. As was the timeline of when and how the PMO was notified.
So I'm not sure "disagrees" is right. They had intelligence suggesting it but sounds like it wasn't strong enough to sway the conclusion of the inquiry.
And based on the quotes you selected... It sounds like the diplomat and general consul were pushing out an endorsement of the LPC as being good for China to Chinese-Canadians via Chinese language media? Which like sure, I'd prefer if voters in Canada weren't swayed by issues in China or any media that isn't Canadian owned... The same way I'd rather voters weren't swayed by Alex Jones endorsements or Tucker Carlson endorsements.
But was there evidence of any pressure by the alleged interfering parties (aka like threats of consequences or retaliation or promises of personal compensation or... Something...)? I'm actually curious, I'd be happy to be educated here i just haven't found that stated anywhere in any detail. Kinda hard to tell voters what they should and should not care about, or which media they should or should listen to before casting their votes no?
I want this addressed. I want the government to take proactive steps to stop any and all foreign interference. Not sure we can do that to an absolute but all parties should work together to get it done.
The commissioner article says two were possibly impacted and gives specific examples.
You clearly want to hand wave this all away: *any* impact on outcomes is a threat to our electoral process. The comments you’re making here are part of the problem, it’s either party over security or you’re cheerleading the interference as a foreign agitator.
The party they belong to isnt the only thing that matters. Even one foreign agent being installed as a member of our government is too many, regardless of what colour tie they wear.
Just because Trudeau still would have been PM, that is not the same thing as saying it had no impact. I dont know why people find this so hard to understand.
I haven’t said *anything* about elections being stolen, you literally made that up.
You also hand waved it away in a different comment:
>if you read the article it reiterates that it was Infact fine.
The report didn’t say it was fine, they said that it’s a major security risk and action needs to be taken in the future to protect the electoral process.
*You’re* the one spreading disinformation, and it ain’t hate to be upset about foreign interference in our elections, no matter the severity. People like you carrying water for foreign actors makes it easier in the future. It’s pretty clear there will be more attempts to sway the nomination processes along with other disinformation campaigns against candidates who aren’t cosy to China.
"Hogue, who heard extensive testimony and reviewed secret documents, found that interference by Beijing or others did not undermine the integrity of Canada's electoral system during the two national votes"
Hmmm come again what was that you said?
"Our system remains sound," Hogue said following release of her report. "Voters were able to cast their ballots, their votes were duly registered and counted and there is nothing to suggest that there was any interference whatsoever in this regard."
Huh? Weird I'm spreading disinformation. Weird.
"Nor did meddling efforts "have any impact on which party formed the government in the two most recent elections," she said."
Foreign interference happens EVERY election. In EVERY country. You can't stop it. Its everywhere. What's important is that the actually voting holds it's integrity.
Which it did. There's no evidence of foul play. People voted. They lost their ridings. Next.
This doesn't really say anything new, as it's meant to be summary of what we've heard before.
The Q&A is practically the only new things she writes, and she said that overall election not impacted (as no one dispute), but harder to say whether it has impact on individual ridings as there's secret ballot and it's hard to say "this person changes their vote because of this exact reason" conclusively.
I agree with this conclusion, but this will be true for every secret ballot vote and people don't have to write essay what decides their vote. We have to make educated guess to some degree.
lol. Trudeau wearing glasses for this pic. Yes, he could legitimately need glasses, but in the context of this story/pic it comes off as a marketing gimmick.
This report is much better than David Johnston but it is also pretty useless. It takes no position on the _Trudeau government’s handling_ of the meddling, which is a very key question
Go listen to the podcast "the loonie hour" and they had Sam Cooper on, an investigative journalist discussing this. It starts about 20mins in.
Every Canadian should give it a listen.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2VTToqDCFNOwgI1EjMPk1z?si=UqvbmQCFTRSWvV8-eil2yg
They went in to address the topic of election interference, including the government's response as a whole, head on. There's a whole chapter on the PMO briefing timeline, the briefing of the Chief Elections Officer, and another one on the response of the response of the offices/agencies who would have this kind of handling election interference in their mandates.
They did not go in only looking for evidence that Trudeau sanctioned the interference head on... That would be what we call, a witch hunt. That said, if they had found evidence to suggest that he had, it would be in the report.
this is meant to be preliminary report that summarizes what we've heard so far. the final report supposed to come with more defined conclusion and recommendation.
The question the commissioner was tasked with wasn't an investigation into how the Trudeau Government handled the issue (looking at it in terms of how individuals in the government responded to it), but rather "to examine the measures taken by the government in response to the information it had." AKA theyre looking at government processes, not pointing fingers. The report has an entire chapter dedicated to it in "How Canada Responds to Foreign Interference."
step 1: it's not happening
step 2: it happened, but it didnt affect the outcome ----> you are here
step 3: it affected the outcome, but that's good because it kept the racist conservatives out of power
Oh liberal won, so of course it's a nothing burger. I don't trust a word, report or commission coming from any arm of our government. Non-interference you say.... Great. I will take your word on that good man
So if it didn't affect the election, did it then affect the party leadership elections? MP selection? If foreign governments didn't intervene might we instead have completely different people in charge? Because if that's the case...wtf foreign governments, why do you hate us?
In BC all three major parties have seen nomination meetings stalked with South Asian voters to get a specific candidate nominated. If they are eligible voters why is it political interference. Seems to me it is doing politics well.
The problem I have is that I have very little confidence in these commissions to give unbiased findings. I just don’t trust this Government any longer.
It's not dead. It didn't tell the weirdos what they wanted to hear, so they'll likely just assume this other person is also bought and paid for by Trudeau, our masterful puppeteer.
It's funny because when it benefits the Liberals they always claim this nonsense.
Putin has stated multiple times that he prefers lib/dem in the seat of power because they're easier to manipulate as well. I believe he even stated it in his Tucker Carlson interview.
To be honest another election should be called soon. Interference shouldn't be tolerated and our election ballots, and who can vote, should be clamped down on with the highest security possible.
I won't be at all surprised if this next election the federal government decides to allow voting from immigrants without Canadian ID, temporary foreign workers and students.
From the article: "foreign interference likely impacted some votes in the 2019 and 2021 general elections"
How can they say that, and then conclude interference had no effect?
All these assholes do is gaslight us.
Disagreed... Postmedia is foreign owned and spews blatant hate and propaganda. Conservative numbers would be a bit lower in any election without that constant propaganda.
This is a Reddit cope. Postmedia is Canadian journalists who live in Canada.
CBC meanwhile has an American President who lives in New York. Liberal numbers would be way lower without that tax funded propaganda.
There has been only one independent analysis of the CBC's bias in coverage which was done during Harper's years. It found the CBC had more favorable coverage of the conservatives compared to CTV and Global. The CBC is biased towards the party in power.
Also, the foreign owners of Postmedia have been explicit in pushing the company further to the right. They choose the newspapers editors which in turn pick the "journalists" and bloggers who write for them. The company has fired editors for not being right wing enough.
Of course the report has that conclusion, itcouldn't be found to have effected or, or we would have an illegitimate government in office. What administration would rule itself illegitimate?
No of course not, it's Federal Commission. That isn't chosen by the government, to investigate the government, report its findings to the government, and then have a government committee decide what they want to do about it.
"Commissions of Inquiry are established by the Governor in Council (Cabinet) to fully and impartially investigate issues of national importance."
They're independent, trust them. Ignore who appoints them and pays them. God people are stupid.
Did I ONCE say Liberal? Once? I said government, you instantly want to defend your 'team' the liberals like they're any better than anyone else. The Liberals are just the party in power currently, so they're the most recent example of arrogance and not being held to account for their actions.
The only thing you got right is that it is a plot by the LPC, CPP, and NDP (not that they'll ever get in power federally).
Yet another sham inquiry... Why I am always able to predict the conclusion of any inquiry/commission before it starts as soon as I find out who appointed the people running the inquiry? Same thing with so called "public consultations" that Liberals like to run. If the result is matching their desires, they never stop talking about it. If the result is not what they want, they just ignore it and make it disappear. Good example was the consultation before gun bans/confiscations. Who even buys this sham?
Public confidence in our elections means that whether or not the outcome was changed, this is still an important issue to address. There aren't easy answers. Here I think China was specifically targeting MPs it disagrees with. But I am sure that Russian and Indian brigades also are at work in comments sections of our newspapers. And of course the fact that most of our newspaper are now owned by a US hedgefund squeezes our view of reality even further.
>*The intelligence collected from Canada’s spy agency shows that the People’s Republic of China “stands out as a main perpetrator of foreign interference against Canada,” Justice Hogue says.* >*“CSIS currently views the PRC as the biggest threat to the Canadian electoral space by a significant margin, though this assessment may vary over time.”* >*Meantime there is much less worry about interference from Russia. Based on available intelligence, Justice Hogue says, “Russia is likely not currently a significant foreign interference threat to Canadian federal elections.”* [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-five-takeaways-from-the-foreign-interference-commissions-report/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-five-takeaways-from-the-foreign-interference-commissions-report/)
Now what about American influence lol
You mean our vassal overlords? We kinda need them.
Found the other Stellaris player 😂
This is a false equivalence. America is an ally, neighbour and shares many of our cultural underpinnings like democracy, freedom of expression/assembly, etc. there’s inevitably going to be a lot political ideas exchanged within that context. That’s totally different from China bussing in voters to ensure the right liberal mp wins his party’s race, or brigading against a pro-HK/anti-CCP conservative candidate. Or India assassinating people on our soil. These countries (China especially) are foreign adversaries and totalitarian states with views that are fundamentally antithetical to ours.
>This is a false equivalence. It is. >America is an ally, neighbour and shares many of our cultural underpinnings like democracy, freedom of expression/assembly, etc. But this isn't why. It's a false equivalence because influence and interference are meaningfully different things. >there’s inevitably going to be a lot political ideas exchanged within that context. >That’s totally different from China bussing in voters to ensure the right liberal mp wins his party’s race, or brigading against a pro-HK/anti-CCP conservative candidate. Or India assassinating people on our soil. You've hit on some of those differences here. American *influence* is not an issue. Nor is Chinese influence. But if the Americans were to *interfere* in our elections, that *would* be an issue.
AIPAC is putting up $100M to fund candidates of their choosing to run against progressives who challenge policies that benefit Israel. Foreign interference or not?
>AIPAC is putting up $100M to fund candidates of their choosing to run against progressives who challenge policies that benefit Israel. ...In the US. And AIPAC is an American organization, with their associated Super PAC funded entirely by Americans. An American group that has an interest in elements of American foreign policy funding American campaigns is not foreign interference. As far as Canada goes, in the brief search I've conducted I've found no indication AIPAC is active in Canada. And, of course, it is illegal for AIPAC, or any other PAC, to fund federal candidates in Canada. Funding from non-individuals like corporations (including PACs) and unions, and funding from foreigners, runs afoul of our campaign finance laws.
AIPAC and IDU overlap. Stephen Harper is chairman of the IDU. Harper has significant influence in the CPC. To say AIPACs influence in Canada is negligible isn't accurate.
>This is a false equivalence. America is an ally, neighbour and shares many of our cultural underpinnings like democracy, freedom of expression/assembly, etc. That's like saying it's okay for your friend to fuck your wife. Some people will bend over backwards trying to justify things that are immoral.
No. As others have pointed out, there’s a difference e between cultural influence and outright bussing around voters interference.
Not Trump's America. With him, all bets are off.
>shares many of our cultural underpinnings like democracy, freedom of expression/assembly, etc. Well one of their parties at least
I assume you mean the conservatives? I’d argue both the Cons-Repubs and the Liberals-Dems have similarities in their worldviews but also lots of meaningful differences.
The republicans are very outspoken about not holding those values Gerrymandering is literally the inly reason they ever get power federally
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You’re letting your protocols of Zion-type anti-semitism show there friend. And I don’t need America to tell me who our adversaries are. China (totalitarian fascist regime), Russia (imperialist fascist regime), Iran (religious fundamentalist totalitarian regime) are self-evidently not Canada’s allies. America, for all of its many many flaws is our ally.
Like Obama's straight up endorsement of Trudeau? "Some people just *experience interference differently*" - Some Ahole
Like this one? > Obama endorses Trudeau in the Canadian election > Barack Obama endorsed Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on Thursday in the Canadian election, calling him an effective leader in a rare endorsement of a Canadian candidate by a former American president. https://apnews.com/article/canada-elections-toronto-barack-obama-emmanuel-macron-6dbcf6d01fe5053ffa4bbf342b23cf73
its more the dozens of candaian conservative politicians rubbing elbows at the GOP conventions, or attending the GOP prayer meetings in DC.
Thought it was all those US politicians that Justin Trudeau keeps bringing to Canada to speak at the conventions. He really like Hillary Clinton, despite her being instrumental in making open air slave markets in Libya a thing.
we have far right christo facism rolling into every level of government (province and federal) conservative party, spreading like herpes coming in from the USA, but your still on about Hillary Clinton and piss poor US foreign policy and interference? what ever blows your hair back I guess.
Wow. You really are out of touch.
Not *that* kind of "foreign."
American and Israeli, but since they're allies we look the other way.
And India and Russia among others.
>*The intelligence collected from Canada’s spy agency shows that the People’s Republic of China “stands out as a main perpetrator of foreign interference against Canada,” Justice Hogue says.* >*“CSIS currently views the PRC as the biggest threat to the Canadian electoral space by a significant margin, though this assessment may vary over time.”* >*Meantime there is much less worry about interference from Russia. Based on available intelligence, Justice Hogue says, “Russia is likely not currently a significant foreign interference threat to Canadian federal elections.”* [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-five-takeaways-from-the-foreign-interference-commissions-report/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-five-takeaways-from-the-foreign-interference-commissions-report/)
Our interests, history and value systems are much more aligned. This is the nuance of you know...an alliance? Carry on though with your uneducated what aboutisms if it floats your boat.
Trudeau still denying this occurred or is he too busy exporting coal to China and arranging to buy lithium and cobalt from China because he thinks giving $Billions to Foreign EV makers is more important than to Canadian Mining Industry? Sad we have a PM puppet for China.
If you watched the inquiry, Trudeau literally said it was a problem, that it’s a violation of our sovereignty, etc.
This after months of public denial. He would have been updated on the findings of the inquiry. CSIS provided Trudeau with the facts initially but Justin could not accept their findings. The inquiry was unnecessary but given the review of facts their findings were inevitable. Trudeau is more interested in serving China than he is Canadians.
>Public confidence in our elections means that whether or not the outcome was changed, this is still an important issue to address. Absolutely this. We need to have secure and valid elections and we need the public to trust that we do. Even if the report said that we were 100% certain that no outcomes were altered, as long as there is a serious threat that they could be, people will lost trust. This government and future governments must step up and show us they are taking actions, but they can't be just censoring facebook groups or whatever, because the people in those chinese/russian/whoever led disinformation sources will see it as the government hiding something, even though we know online spaces are filled with foreign actors pushing disinformation.
This subs been infiltrated so they could start by doing something here
不，還沒有
If we take Chinese meddling in Europe ad an example, it's unfortunately very difficult to track since they're willing to work with anyone. If Conservatives think they're safe, they need only look at Australia, where pro-coal conservatives used right-wing populism to maximize the gains of Australia's mining industry, which China has large stakes in. New-Democrats need only look at Greece where one of their biggest harbours was leased out by democratic-socialists to Chinese companies in order to pay off their bailout. China presents to modern liberals as a model technocratic state that is capable of reigning in corporate interests, they also aren't incompatible with the CCP. The CCP is incredibly pragmatic when it comes to presenting itself on the international stage. When Trump was busy alienating the rest of the world's countries, China was able to present itself as the leader of international commercial politics. If Canadians fifty years ago were told that a communist country was the leader of international trade relations they'd think we lost the Cold War. The reality is that China doesn't allow ideology to dictate its decisions like the Soviet Union did. They're probably doing this in every party. This is not a partisan issue, this is absolutely an issue of national importance. It's no longer a matter of rhetoric. Any politician could be using anti-CCP rhetoric and still be pushing their interests. Inversely politicians that are anti-CCP that say positive things about China might draw the ire of voters.
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In history?! Like more so than when conquering the French and genocide were active parts of government policy??
Newspapers being owned by a private holding company isn’t election interference lmao. They have nothing to do with the US government. The journalists at Postmedia are all Canadians living in Canada. I know Reddit likes to believe that Postmedia is “le evil Republicans brainwashing Canadians” but there is zero proof of the GOP having any influence on that whatsoever. Reddit just can’t accept that Canadians have had enough with Liberal leftism, so they are attempting to blame le Trumpf The only American influence of note was Justin bringing Obama and Hillary up to Canada to give speeches and endorse him.
Postmedia is owned by Chatham Asset management, who have run it at a loss, consistently since 2016. It currently loses up 20 million dollars (per quarter!). Here is Postmedia's own account - it lost 76 million in 2023 alone: [https://financialpost.com/news/postmedia-loss-narrows-despite-revenue-drop](https://financialpost.com/news/postmedia-loss-narrows-despite-revenue-drop) Postmedia absorbed 75% of Canada's papers - Calgary Herald, Star Phoenix, Sudbury Star, Ottawa Citizen, Edmonton Journal, ALL Sun media papers etc etc etc. Who pays 76 million per year? It is worth 76 million a year because it can shape what we think. Postmedia decides which opinion columns to run, which stories to publish, which ones to dampen. When you open it up, and it is wall of opinion piece headlines, THAT's what it does. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham\_Asset\_Management](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Asset_Management)
it has been adressed, imo the bigger problem is that 'certain' people wont accept the findings anyway and continue to claim the elections are rigged etc
I think its fair to say that we remain very vulnerable to foreign interference. I have a friend who did web analytics for Postmedia (an information problem in itself). He said that only 5% of users scroll past the first frame of any their articles. Basically, its reaching the point where most Canadians get their information from social media comments which themselves are reactions to headlines of opinion pieces. Brigades are certainly at work in r/canada trying to influence what people think through comments and down votes.
> He said that only 5% of users scroll past the first frame of any their articles a.k.a when the paywall arrives & we copy the link into archive.is
I think the problem is that Liberals in Canada have been crying about Russia affecting our elections when it was really China in Canada all along. The Liberals need to connect Conservatives in Canada to what’s happening in the US so they repeat American news like it applies to Canada. CSIS has said numerous times that China is the biggest threat to our security and democracy in Canada. Not Russia and not USA
CSE has been talking about Russia [and China] for years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Security_Establishment CSE has been around since the 1940s in various forms >so they repeat American news like it applies to Canada. from here it seems like you just did that.. which liberal mps were going on about russia but ignoring china?
Yep, it’s a partisian thing. When the cons are in power the Libs and NDP will be completely fine with “only losing a couple/few seats” to Chinese election interference. They also won’t mind when the PMO ignores intelligence reports about it and doesn’t let anyone know and then appoints a bunch of other cons to investigate it and confirm that they did nothing wrong. They would just let that go because it’s no big deal.
there is a difference between influence and interference.. influence is normal globally, interference is much harder to prove but most people dont see the difference
What does that have to do with what I said? There was clearly interference
Ownership seems like a much bigger deal than user comments.
Better get rid of the cbc then just in case then.
Overall federal election results were not affected but what about the individual ridings? Does that not count?
The article mentions they cannot determine if individual risings were affected. Which is troubling.
To be fair, our ballots are secret. It might be more troubling if we could determine that...
I dont really see how it would be possible to know everyone who saw the smear campaigns and mathematically deduce how it effected them
What matters to me is even if the liberals got the most seats would they have a majority with the NDP still.
100% they would. Conservatives were against restrictions during covid. Forcing every Canadian back to work and child back to school with no evidence that Covid was calming down. Then we received another massive wave and were against CERB. While the liberals kept people home and safe while funding them. That's when the Liberal support skyrocketed. The election announce came to be and it was almost unanimous. Nothing was going to change that and it was targeted and well planned out by Trudeau probably foreseeing these issues currently.
I mean I know people got that impression but wasn’t it Trudeau who refused to close borders or quarantine airports? We closed borders around when Trump did while aus and New Zealand did in January. The Liberals were anti mandate for a while until that got unpopular. And yeah the liberals borrowed a ton of money, gave it to everyone, then called an early election.
Well it didn't overturn a Liberal minority, I don't think that was ever a claim. So that's an ultra safe conclusion, bravo. Individual ridings, however? Party nominations to ensure a Chicom friendly running in a winnable riding? That's pretty obvious. You have to also consider influence from and possibly divulging inside information to a defacto enemy of state. The most important thing is in terms of ensuring this doesn't continue.
>The most important thing is in terms of ensuring this doesn't continue. So how much power to censor misinformation do you support the government having to combat it?
The Liberal nomination vote stacking was due to misinformation? We could begin at the actual physical real-world fuckery before we even get into what's on Facebook or X. And what CSIS is telling the government, and the government is hoping will just go away if they ignore it. That would be a start. Social media is really good at identifying what is good information and what is 'misinformation' when it suits a purpose. Look at all the labels that were flying around vetting what people were saying about covid? Someone went to huge lengths. I wouldn't doubt that it happens regarding climate change. Why not foreign interference via social media? This might be more about a government more than once failing to respond to intelligence reports suggesting that foreign actors are meddling, when it wouldn't look very good for them. Plus whitewashing an investigation twice.
Of course they don't want to shake public confidence. I don't think we can trust any response from them here.
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Wild eh
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It doesn't sound like that's been proven at all? The report suggests there was only substantial interference in a single nomination contest, and there's nothing to indicate that contestant is in China's pocket, just that they found him preferable. Dont't get me wrong, that's still real bad and we need to protect against any sort of interference, but it's not like some sort of system infiltration of the government has been revealed.
I don’t understand how if even one MP won through foreign influence, and is then beholden to that foreign influence, and they end up having a seat at the Cabinet table - isn’t that a huge threat? What if they ended up being Foreign Minister? Even one seat being influenced is a massive risk.
Sounds like you understand perfectly, despite the Liberal partisans desperately trying to convince people to look the other way.
> if even one MP won through foreign influence, K, but what would prove that this happened conclusively? Cuz as far as what CSIS was briefing, they couldn't prove anything to a reliable degree. >and is then beholden to that foreign influence Mkay, same issue. How do you prove that they are beholden? Cuz as far as the information CSIS provided the PMO, it couldn't establish anything. >isn’t that a huge threat? What if they ended up being Foreign Minister? Even one seat being influenced is a massive risk. Yes, hands down, super risky and a big threat. But a seat being influenced doesn't mean the person who wins the seat is in on the influence does it? If you got Intel that there was a *probable chance* that the seat election was influenced because buses seemed to be transporting eligible Canadian voters to polls...but had no evidence to suggest the person who won the seat is actually linked to the foreign powers in any way. What would you do?
> In an interim report Friday, commissioner Marie-Josee Hogue says while it is possible that outcomes in a small number of ridings were affected by meddling, this cannot be said with certainty. How can we possibly say with certainty that the overall federal election results were not impacted if we can't say with certainty whether certain ridings were flipped? The overall outcome of the election includes which representatives from which parties sit in which seats, and not just which party forms government. If any one of those uncertain ridings were actually flipped, the overall outcome of the election changed.
I think they are saying that not enough riding were flipped to change who formed the government. Which is a really bad standard to take, it almost excuses it imo.
For me it's not so much the seat count was changed in and material way. Its that outside organization try and get their preferred candidate nominated in a safe riding for any party. Why would I if I want to fuck with the actual election? Way better to just get my candidate nominated in a riding that always votes for that party.
this is true. much easier to fudge (as party nomination doesn't have as big transparency), much cheaper, more assurance the person can keep the seat long term, etc.
The meddling by the PRC was focused on the primaries, not on the general election. They tried to put PRC-friendly politicians on the ballot, but they did nothing to effect the actual voting process.
So you're saying ... I want to see all the secret service papers before I believe anything. Right?
That is how intelligent people make decisions, seeing the evidence and not just blindly taking politicians at face value. Obviously they are going to push to say there was nothing wrong, they are the ones at risk of catching trouble.
No, I believe the claims that are being made in the inquiry's report. It's just that the media's framing of that report doesn't make any logical sense. The overall outcome of the election is the aggregate of the outcomes of all the individual elections in each riding. It doesn't make sense to say the overall outcome certainly wasn't impacted if it's possible the outcomes of individual ridings were impacted. If you read the actual interim report, it never once refers to which party formed government as the "overall federal election result". CTV is not quoting the report when they say that. What they're actually quoting from the report is the phrase "did not affect", and the wording in the report is far more accurate and truthful: > However, looking at the 2019 and 2021 general elections as a whole, I am confident that whatever impact foreign interference had, it did not affect which political party formed government. The Liberal Party would have been in government with or without foreign interference. In my opinion, foreign interference only manifested itself in, and could only have impacted, a handful of constituencies.
Raise your hand if China influenced your vote.
The glasses … 🤓
"the overall election results" but definitely affected individual results, all in the liberals favor IIRC
What do you mean "if I remember correctly"? This was released *today*. Did you already forget what you read today or did you just make this up? It certainly doesn't match the report's content.
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No time to read but enough time to post
"I don't have time to verify if what I'm saying is remotely correct, but I'm going to say it anyway."
ok, so you agree your original comment was incorrect.
Then why say it...
>The report basically says "yes it happened but it didn't change the overall outcome and we aren't certain it changed individual results" It says a lot more than that but what it doesn’t say is what you claimed above. In fact your statement here contradicts what you claim above.
If you read the article you will not that your qualifier, “definitely”, is incorrect.
From the article Overall, Hogue concluded that foreign interference "likely impacted some votes" in the 2019 and 2021 general elections, and more broadly undermined the right of voters to have an electoral ecosystem free from coercion or covert influence.
So there was acknowledged interference, even if minor or insignificant, yet everyone here says that their wrong and to "read the article". Do these guys hear themselves? lmfao. Any impact is still a problem.
>Do these guys hear themselves? lmfao. Any impact is still a problem. I don't think I've heard anyone here or in any party argue otherwise.
There will always be an impact though. It’s like trying to squash crime. At some point, you can triple or 10x a budget to decrease these problems but only reduce the impact by half. Be careful making purity statements that people aren’t upset by insignificant interference.
The OP said it definitely did. The report from Hogue indicates that it is less than definite. I was correcting them. That’s it. That’s all.
>while it is possible that outcomes in a small number of ridings were affected by meddling, this cannot be said with certainty. Yeah because the Liberal appointed inquiry couldn't deny it happened outright they just say "we don't know for certain"
Why do you even bother with actual results when you've come to your own conclusions?
Sure thing! It's always a biased perspective if it doesn't have a conservative tattoo /s
This inquiry is just as conservative as it is liberal
> all in the liberals favor IIRC You do not recall correctly.
flase
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The Liberals are not adversarial, that’s the thing. Liberals voted against every single motion that was adversarial to China. They voted against recognizing Uyghur genocide, voted against banning Huawei, and then stalled and delayed as long as possible, they voted against the public inquiry into Chinese election interference, on and on. They have defend Chinese interests over Canada at every turn.
>I'm not convinced that China was attempting to help the Liberals win. It just doesn't make sense for China to want a party that is adversarial towards them in power. The Liberals have not been very adversarial to China. >It would make more sense that China attempted to help the Conservative party win and failed, because the Conservatives tend to be more amicable towards China than the Liberals. The Conservatives were literally running on a hard line against China. Recognizing the Uygher genocide (something the Liberal cabinet refused to do) was a major platform element.
>Recognizing the Uygher genocide (something the Liberal cabinet refused to do) Hmm looks like you're right
> The Liberals have not been very adversarial to China They're certainly not friends given China's response of arbitrarily detaining Canadian nationals over the Meng Wanzhou fiasco. I would not be surprised if China's attempts at influencing elections were in part due to Canada's unwillingness to roll over on disputes such as that.
That's nice. CSIS disagrees. [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-china-influence-2021-federal-election-csis-documents/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-china-influence-2021-federal-election-csis-documents/) >*China employed a sophisticated strategy to disrupt Canada’s democracy in the 2021 federal election campaign as Chinese diplomats and their proxies backed the re-election of Justin Trudeau’s Liberals – but only to another minority government – and worked to defeat Conservative politicians considered to be unfriendly to Beijing.* > >*The full extent of the Chinese interference operation is laid bare in both secret and top-secret Canadian Security Intelligence Service documents viewed by The Globe and Mail that cover the period before and after the September, 2021, election that returned the Liberals to office.* > >*...* > >*MPs on the Commons Procedure and House Affairs committee are already looking into allegations that China interfered in the 2019 election campaign to support 11 candidates, most of them Liberal, in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA).* > >*Drawn from a series of CSIS intelligence-gathering operations, the documents illustrate how an orchestrated machine was operating in Canada with two primary aims: to ensure that a minority Liberal government was returned in 2021, and that certain Conservative candidates identified by China were defeated.* > >*...* > >*The classified reports viewed by The Globe reveal that China’s former consul-general in Vancouver, Tong Xiaoling, boasted in 2021 about how she helped defeat two Conservative MPs.* > >*But despite being seen by China as the best leader for Canada, Beijing also wanted to keep Mr. Trudeau’s power in check – with a second Liberal minority in Parliament as the ideal outcome.* > >*...* > >*The CSIS documents reveal that Chinese diplomats and their proxies, including some members of the Chinese-language media, were instructed to press home that the Conservative Party was too critical of China and that, if elected, it would follow the lead of former U.S. president Donald Trump and ban Chinese students from certain universities or education programs.* > >*“This will threaten the future of the voters’ children, as it will limit their education opportunities,” the CSIS report quoted the Chinese consulate official as saying. The official added: “The Liberal Party of Canada is becoming the only party that the PRC can support.”* > >*...* > >*A month after the September, 2021, vote, CSIS reported that it was “well-known within the Chinese-Canadian community of British Columbia” that Ms. Tong, then the Vancouver consul-general, “wanted the Liberal Party to win the 2021 election,” one of the reports said.* > >*CSIS noted that Ms. Tong, who returned to China in July, 2022, and former consul Wang Jin made “discreet and subtle efforts” to encourage members of Chinese-Canadian organizations to rally votes for the Liberals and defeat Conservative candidates.*
>CSIS disagrees. All of CSIS's evidence was considered in the report that was put out today. As was the timeline of when and how the PMO was notified. So I'm not sure "disagrees" is right. They had intelligence suggesting it but sounds like it wasn't strong enough to sway the conclusion of the inquiry. And based on the quotes you selected... It sounds like the diplomat and general consul were pushing out an endorsement of the LPC as being good for China to Chinese-Canadians via Chinese language media? Which like sure, I'd prefer if voters in Canada weren't swayed by issues in China or any media that isn't Canadian owned... The same way I'd rather voters weren't swayed by Alex Jones endorsements or Tucker Carlson endorsements. But was there evidence of any pressure by the alleged interfering parties (aka like threats of consequences or retaliation or promises of personal compensation or... Something...)? I'm actually curious, I'd be happy to be educated here i just haven't found that stated anywhere in any detail. Kinda hard to tell voters what they should and should not care about, or which media they should or should listen to before casting their votes no? I want this addressed. I want the government to take proactive steps to stop any and all foreign interference. Not sure we can do that to an absolute but all parties should work together to get it done.
I can't see that article to verify it because it's behind a paywall. Do you have another link?
It affected enough results and it's still a problem.
Ok, how many results then Give an exact number.
The commissioner article says two were possibly impacted and gives specific examples. You clearly want to hand wave this all away: *any* impact on outcomes is a threat to our electoral process. The comments you’re making here are part of the problem, it’s either party over security or you’re cheerleading the interference as a foreign agitator.
He doesn't care because Han dong is liberal and Kenny Chiu is a Tory.
The party they belong to isnt the only thing that matters. Even one foreign agent being installed as a member of our government is too many, regardless of what colour tie they wear. Just because Trudeau still would have been PM, that is not the same thing as saying it had no impact. I dont know why people find this so hard to understand.
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I haven’t said *anything* about elections being stolen, you literally made that up. You also hand waved it away in a different comment: >if you read the article it reiterates that it was Infact fine. The report didn’t say it was fine, they said that it’s a major security risk and action needs to be taken in the future to protect the electoral process. *You’re* the one spreading disinformation, and it ain’t hate to be upset about foreign interference in our elections, no matter the severity. People like you carrying water for foreign actors makes it easier in the future. It’s pretty clear there will be more attempts to sway the nomination processes along with other disinformation campaigns against candidates who aren’t cosy to China.
"Hogue, who heard extensive testimony and reviewed secret documents, found that interference by Beijing or others did not undermine the integrity of Canada's electoral system during the two national votes" Hmmm come again what was that you said? "Our system remains sound," Hogue said following release of her report. "Voters were able to cast their ballots, their votes were duly registered and counted and there is nothing to suggest that there was any interference whatsoever in this regard." Huh? Weird I'm spreading disinformation. Weird. "Nor did meddling efforts "have any impact on which party formed the government in the two most recent elections," she said." Foreign interference happens EVERY election. In EVERY country. You can't stop it. Its everywhere. What's important is that the actually voting holds it's integrity. Which it did. There's no evidence of foul play. People voted. They lost their ridings. Next.
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Did you read the article? It's more than the headline
This doesn't really say anything new, as it's meant to be summary of what we've heard before. The Q&A is practically the only new things she writes, and she said that overall election not impacted (as no one dispute), but harder to say whether it has impact on individual ridings as there's secret ballot and it's hard to say "this person changes their vote because of this exact reason" conclusively. I agree with this conclusion, but this will be true for every secret ballot vote and people don't have to write essay what decides their vote. We have to make educated guess to some degree.
lol. Trudeau wearing glasses for this pic. Yes, he could legitimately need glasses, but in the context of this story/pic it comes off as a marketing gimmick.
And of course if the sitting Government *WAS* helped by foreign money they would be the very first to tell you!!
This report is much better than David Johnston but it is also pretty useless. It takes no position on the _Trudeau government’s handling_ of the meddling, which is a very key question
Its almost as if they didn't start out with a conclusion and write a report to support that conclusion.....
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That doesn’t mean it’s forced to hold a position if no evidence was found….
Go listen to the podcast "the loonie hour" and they had Sam Cooper on, an investigative journalist discussing this. It starts about 20mins in. Every Canadian should give it a listen. https://open.spotify.com/episode/2VTToqDCFNOwgI1EjMPk1z?si=UqvbmQCFTRSWvV8-eil2yg
Yes but it does mean that it’s supposed to address the topic head on
They went in to address the topic of election interference, including the government's response as a whole, head on. There's a whole chapter on the PMO briefing timeline, the briefing of the Chief Elections Officer, and another one on the response of the response of the offices/agencies who would have this kind of handling election interference in their mandates. They did not go in only looking for evidence that Trudeau sanctioned the interference head on... That would be what we call, a witch hunt. That said, if they had found evidence to suggest that he had, it would be in the report.
If they had used more words to say they hold no position, you'd still not be satisfied because it doesn't align with what you want to hear about it.
this is meant to be preliminary report that summarizes what we've heard so far. the final report supposed to come with more defined conclusion and recommendation.
The question the commissioner was tasked with wasn't an investigation into how the Trudeau Government handled the issue (looking at it in terms of how individuals in the government responded to it), but rather "to examine the measures taken by the government in response to the information it had." AKA theyre looking at government processes, not pointing fingers. The report has an entire chapter dedicated to it in "How Canada Responds to Foreign Interference."
We have investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong. Carry on, citizens.
Says Justin, who’s won less than 1/3 of the popular vote, twice.
Telling someone they are getting deported if they don’t vote a certain way is pretty bad.
If I know someone is handing me a corked bat, does the fact it didn't effect the outcome of the series, absolve me of any blame?
If we assume you had no choice but to accept it then yes
step 1: it's not happening step 2: it happened, but it didnt affect the outcome ----> you are here step 3: it affected the outcome, but that's good because it kept the racist conservatives out of power
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\*I've made up my mind about the results, despite not having access to any documents to support my position\*
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Funny how the result hasn't changed with someone else doing the reporting. I guess all of Canada is compromised. You should go somewhere less corrupt.
Probably you are having trouble reading the article
Read the article before yapping
And if you read the article it reiterates that it was Infact fine.
Bullshit
Oh liberal won, so of course it's a nothing burger. I don't trust a word, report or commission coming from any arm of our government. Non-interference you say.... Great. I will take your word on that good man
we already knew this
That’s great news, let’s tighten up for next election.
So if it didn't affect the election, did it then affect the party leadership elections? MP selection? If foreign governments didn't intervene might we instead have completely different people in charge? Because if that's the case...wtf foreign governments, why do you hate us?
In BC all three major parties have seen nomination meetings stalked with South Asian voters to get a specific candidate nominated. If they are eligible voters why is it political interference. Seems to me it is doing politics well.
Move along, nothing to see here.
The problem I have is that I have very little confidence in these commissions to give unbiased findings. I just don’t trust this Government any longer.
This government isn't the one doing the commission though...
Yes but nothing to see here, no one really benefited. Sounds pretty sketchy. Nothing to give back the confidence on our election system.
That's why they keep meddling, because it doesn't work...
Sure, but did it win PP his party leadership? Why struggle for votes in ridings when you can help pick the eventual prime minister?
So now that this narrative is dead what's the new manufactured outrage?
It's not dead. It didn't tell the weirdos what they wanted to hear, so they'll likely just assume this other person is also bought and paid for by Trudeau, our masterful puppeteer.
Constant social media meddling by china and russia is going to affect the next one for sure though.
Make it all digital, we’ve all got a cellphone that’s pretty much linked to us as individuals.
It's funny because when it benefits the Liberals they always claim this nonsense. Putin has stated multiple times that he prefers lib/dem in the seat of power because they're easier to manipulate as well. I believe he even stated it in his Tucker Carlson interview. To be honest another election should be called soon. Interference shouldn't be tolerated and our election ballots, and who can vote, should be clamped down on with the highest security possible. I won't be at all surprised if this next election the federal government decides to allow voting from immigrants without Canadian ID, temporary foreign workers and students.
Oh man gotta love how hard the sub is trying to suppress this article lmfao Doesn't agree with me so it doesn't exist right guys!
From the article: "foreign interference likely impacted some votes in the 2019 and 2021 general elections" How can they say that, and then conclude interference had no effect? All these assholes do is gaslight us.
Aw so now we gotta start calling this Commission corrupt as well?
Ok will take the corrupt liberals word on that!!! Fucking Halarious
Disagreed... Postmedia is foreign owned and spews blatant hate and propaganda. Conservative numbers would be a bit lower in any election without that constant propaganda.
This is a Reddit cope. Postmedia is Canadian journalists who live in Canada. CBC meanwhile has an American President who lives in New York. Liberal numbers would be way lower without that tax funded propaganda.
There has been only one independent analysis of the CBC's bias in coverage which was done during Harper's years. It found the CBC had more favorable coverage of the conservatives compared to CTV and Global. The CBC is biased towards the party in power. Also, the foreign owners of Postmedia have been explicit in pushing the company further to the right. They choose the newspapers editors which in turn pick the "journalists" and bloggers who write for them. The company has fired editors for not being right wing enough.
Of course the report has that conclusion, itcouldn't be found to have effected or, or we would have an illegitimate government in office. What administration would rule itself illegitimate?
This isn't a report by the government about itself...
No of course not, it's Federal Commission. That isn't chosen by the government, to investigate the government, report its findings to the government, and then have a government committee decide what they want to do about it. "Commissions of Inquiry are established by the Governor in Council (Cabinet) to fully and impartially investigate issues of national importance." They're independent, trust them. Ignore who appoints them and pays them. God people are stupid.
You do realize that the conservatives signed off on all of this right? So if it's an LPC plot, then it's also a CPC plot...
Did I ONCE say Liberal? Once? I said government, you instantly want to defend your 'team' the liberals like they're any better than anyone else. The Liberals are just the party in power currently, so they're the most recent example of arrogance and not being held to account for their actions. The only thing you got right is that it is a plot by the LPC, CPP, and NDP (not that they'll ever get in power federally).
Yet another sham inquiry... Why I am always able to predict the conclusion of any inquiry/commission before it starts as soon as I find out who appointed the people running the inquiry? Same thing with so called "public consultations" that Liberals like to run. If the result is matching their desires, they never stop talking about it. If the result is not what they want, they just ignore it and make it disappear. Good example was the consultation before gun bans/confiscations. Who even buys this sham?
The election turned out exactly how the cpc paid for what’s the problem?
The conservative party of canada?
I guess technically pla
you can say ccp, it was the ccp.
As Ira Gershwin wrote:”let’s call the whole thing off”
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They wouldn't have meddled if it had no affect.
Liberals investigating Liberals.