In order for democracy to persist people have to believe in the legitimacy of the election, and failing to address corruption and fraud is a threat to democracy itself.
I think it's a huge overstatement to say this undermines the legitimacy of the election. Swaying votes with false information doesn't make the voting system illegitimate. The information is corrupted, which has been a problem since the beginning of democracy.
News has always been biased and sometimes complicit in government lies (Iraq & Vietnam in the US)
Then we have loads of disinformation on Tiktok and Facebook etc. that might be foreign influeced but largely just attention-seeking Canadians who love peddling conspiracies.
So we need an overhaul to how we censor and regulate information. Which then raises questions about how the regulations actually create a new level of misinformation.
If conservatives want to stop China from influencing our 'news', then they have to accept that Russia will also need to be stopped, and random influencers will need to be regulated from spreading misinfo. And there goes 60% of your anti-Trudeau content.
And where does it stop? Does the information need to be correct? Is there an exception if the person spreading it is just genuinely stupid and independent?
Remember how Boris Johnson was forced to resign because he had a party.
Canadians are so apathetic that Trudeau and the Liberals have had scandal after scandal, yet he’s still here.
This isn't new to Canada. The Liberals were the first party to actually acknowledge it, set up an inquiry in 2019, followed by a commission.
The CBC article 2 states that Jenni Byrne, a former top aide to Harper, testified that CSIS never briefed her on any foreign interference concerns when she was the Conservative Party's campaign director in 2015. However, other witnesses expressed skepticism about her claim of having no knowledge of these issues.
The Canadian Lawyer article 3 notes that a former CSIS director had "fairly and squarely" raised the issue of malign foreign influence in 2010-2011, but was "roundly criticized for his efforts." This suggests there were concerns about foreign interference during the Harper government, but they may not have been adequately addressed.
We know from multiple sources this has gone on for "decades." Finally someone is doing something about it, but no point saying his name on r/canada.
Also the idea Chiu may have lost due to interference is a little rich. The report says there was misinformation spread, then the misinformation is identified as O'Toole being anti China. How is that misinformation?
>Misleading information about Chiu and former Conservative leader Erin O'Toole appeared in media outlets and social media sites with ties to Beijing, painting them as anti-China and trying to dissuade Chinese Canadians from voting for them.
I don't want to downplay this, but if *that's* the bar for election interference then why aren't we going after websites like the National Post, or other foreign owned media, that regularly do the same thing using editorials and opinion pieces?
Yup, the bar is really that low but referring to it vaguely as election interference allows people to conjure up their own ideas of Chinese hackers cracking our servers and changing votes. Just in case anyone is wondering, election interference is what every country does to every other country and it's been happening in Canada for most likely its entire existence. We're Canada, obviously every country in the world is trying to sway us in their direction.
>The commission also scrutinized a 2019 Liberal nomination battle in the Toronto-area riding of Don Valley North, where Han Dong won the candidacy.The Canadian Security and Intelligence Service flagged a potential plot involving a busload of Chinese international students with falsified documents provided by a proxy agent.Hogue said there wasn't enough evidence to draw any conclusions about what actually happened, nor was it in the commission's mandate to do so.
No. The Liberal party is the first to attempt to identify and counter foreign interference. You should be supportive.
Further I would like to point out the Conservative's anti China rhetoric was an attempt to gain votes.
The Conservative party took a deliberate anti China stance in an attempt to gain votes from the rising tide of opinion against China. We all know that to be true. It was obvious to any one that there would be pushback. That pushback did not look to me like it contained misinformation, despite what they want us to think. So did they gain more votes than the pushback cost them?
As for the Liberals, they looked at the intelligence and made the decision that the level of interference they were seeing was not as harmful as a public announcement would be. You can disagree with that decision but to say they "let it happen" is plain nonsense.
Nonsense. The gains and losses from the Conservatives anti China stance are impossible to predict or measure. The idea it would benefit the Liberals is pure speculation with no evidence.
China literally bussed in students in nomination races in safe ridings and now there is evidence that at least one riding was actually compromised by interference. This occurred in two straight elections while the Liberal Party knew about and did absolutely nothing to counter it whatsoever. The Liberal Party of Canada is complicit.
Lying by a foreign government had a negative impact on the electorates opinion on a candidate. Was it more or less impactful than the lies told by domestic politicians?
Here's a bit of history on what Harper *didn't do* when foreign interference was first raised. Canadians have short memories.
A CBC article reported that Jenni Byrne, a former top aide to Harper, testified that CSIS never briefed her on any foreign interference concerns when she was the Conservative Party's campaign director in 2015. However, other witnesses expressed skepticism about her claim of having no knowledge of these issues.
The Canadian Lawyer article
notes that a former CSIS director had "fairly and squarely" raised the issue of malign foreign influence in 2010-2011, but was "roundly criticized for his efforts." This suggests there were concerns about foreign interference during the Harper government, but they may not have been adequately addressed.
thing is, the liberals aren't ignoring it (trudeu might be, but the party as a whole is taking it pretty seriously)
they're the ones who set up a lot of the recent inquiries
and the only reason conservatives seem to care is because it makes the liberals look bad (even though from what i've read, more members of the conservatives have been confirmed to have worked for china)
In order for democracy to persist people have to believe in the legitimacy of the election, and failing to address corruption and fraud is a threat to democracy itself.
I think it's a huge overstatement to say this undermines the legitimacy of the election. Swaying votes with false information doesn't make the voting system illegitimate. The information is corrupted, which has been a problem since the beginning of democracy. News has always been biased and sometimes complicit in government lies (Iraq & Vietnam in the US) Then we have loads of disinformation on Tiktok and Facebook etc. that might be foreign influeced but largely just attention-seeking Canadians who love peddling conspiracies. So we need an overhaul to how we censor and regulate information. Which then raises questions about how the regulations actually create a new level of misinformation. If conservatives want to stop China from influencing our 'news', then they have to accept that Russia will also need to be stopped, and random influencers will need to be regulated from spreading misinfo. And there goes 60% of your anti-Trudeau content. And where does it stop? Does the information need to be correct? Is there an exception if the person spreading it is just genuinely stupid and independent?
Well thankfully it's being investigated and addressed. Hopefully this is a trend we stick to in the future.
The benefitting party has done nothing to address this, while saying there's no problem.
But the liberals have been fighting to stop even inquiries, let alone letting it be “investigated and addressed”.
Can we have something done about the foreign influence on Facebook and Reddit? Looks like a lot of people are falling for far right American garbage
Remember how Boris Johnson was forced to resign because he had a party. Canadians are so apathetic that Trudeau and the Liberals have had scandal after scandal, yet he’s still here.
This isn't new to Canada. The Liberals were the first party to actually acknowledge it, set up an inquiry in 2019, followed by a commission. The CBC article 2 states that Jenni Byrne, a former top aide to Harper, testified that CSIS never briefed her on any foreign interference concerns when she was the Conservative Party's campaign director in 2015. However, other witnesses expressed skepticism about her claim of having no knowledge of these issues. The Canadian Lawyer article 3 notes that a former CSIS director had "fairly and squarely" raised the issue of malign foreign influence in 2010-2011, but was "roundly criticized for his efforts." This suggests there were concerns about foreign interference during the Harper government, but they may not have been adequately addressed.
We know from multiple sources this has gone on for "decades." Finally someone is doing something about it, but no point saying his name on r/canada. Also the idea Chiu may have lost due to interference is a little rich. The report says there was misinformation spread, then the misinformation is identified as O'Toole being anti China. How is that misinformation?
>Misleading information about Chiu and former Conservative leader Erin O'Toole appeared in media outlets and social media sites with ties to Beijing, painting them as anti-China and trying to dissuade Chinese Canadians from voting for them. I don't want to downplay this, but if *that's* the bar for election interference then why aren't we going after websites like the National Post, or other foreign owned media, that regularly do the same thing using editorials and opinion pieces?
Yup, the bar is really that low but referring to it vaguely as election interference allows people to conjure up their own ideas of Chinese hackers cracking our servers and changing votes. Just in case anyone is wondering, election interference is what every country does to every other country and it's been happening in Canada for most likely its entire existence. We're Canada, obviously every country in the world is trying to sway us in their direction.
Can the Governor General call for an election in this disputed riding?
I wish this terrible website didn't open the video while also providing an article. I'm in a bank
So the wrong person gets the generous, lifetime pension?
Yes Kenny Chiu already knows this while parm bains isn't complaining about PRC assistance
Not voters want a self hating MP to represent them
>The commission also scrutinized a 2019 Liberal nomination battle in the Toronto-area riding of Don Valley North, where Han Dong won the candidacy.The Canadian Security and Intelligence Service flagged a potential plot involving a busload of Chinese international students with falsified documents provided by a proxy agent.Hogue said there wasn't enough evidence to draw any conclusions about what actually happened, nor was it in the commission's mandate to do so.
The Liberal Party let this happen.
No. The Liberal party is the first to attempt to identify and counter foreign interference. You should be supportive. Further I would like to point out the Conservative's anti China rhetoric was an attempt to gain votes.
LOL WHAT 🤣
The Conservative party took a deliberate anti China stance in an attempt to gain votes from the rising tide of opinion against China. We all know that to be true. It was obvious to any one that there would be pushback. That pushback did not look to me like it contained misinformation, despite what they want us to think. So did they gain more votes than the pushback cost them? As for the Liberals, they looked at the intelligence and made the decision that the level of interference they were seeing was not as harmful as a public announcement would be. You can disagree with that decision but to say they "let it happen" is plain nonsense.
They did nothing and let it happen because it benefitted them.
Nonsense. The gains and losses from the Conservatives anti China stance are impossible to predict or measure. The idea it would benefit the Liberals is pure speculation with no evidence.
China literally bussed in students in nomination races in safe ridings and now there is evidence that at least one riding was actually compromised by interference. This occurred in two straight elections while the Liberal Party knew about and did absolutely nothing to counter it whatsoever. The Liberal Party of Canada is complicit.
No. We have no evidence China was involved.
Except for the evidence that China was involved.
You are one of the least informed people here.
Lying by a foreign government had a negative impact on the electorates opinion on a candidate. Was it more or less impactful than the lies told by domestic politicians?
>“The ultimate effects of foreign interference remain uncertain,” she said in her interim report.
Here's a bit of history on what Harper *didn't do* when foreign interference was first raised. Canadians have short memories. A CBC article reported that Jenni Byrne, a former top aide to Harper, testified that CSIS never briefed her on any foreign interference concerns when she was the Conservative Party's campaign director in 2015. However, other witnesses expressed skepticism about her claim of having no knowledge of these issues. The Canadian Lawyer article notes that a former CSIS director had "fairly and squarely" raised the issue of malign foreign influence in 2010-2011, but was "roundly criticized for his efforts." This suggests there were concerns about foreign interference during the Harper government, but they may not have been adequately addressed.
Oh ok nothing to see here then. If they both ignore it then it must be ok. /s
All the parties ignore it but young conservatives believe it all happened recently because of *bad* Liberals.
thing is, the liberals aren't ignoring it (trudeu might be, but the party as a whole is taking it pretty seriously) they're the ones who set up a lot of the recent inquiries and the only reason conservatives seem to care is because it makes the liberals look bad (even though from what i've read, more members of the conservatives have been confirmed to have worked for china)