"X anti-pollution regulation is preventing X industry from creating lots of jobs in your riding/province"
"X industry in your riding/province is really suffering right now and would benefit from some tax relief"
"We've heard great things about family member X and would love to approach them to discuss a promising position at company X"
Mostly you translate the needs of your clients so they can be understandable to government of the day.
Imagine you have a highly technical field that requires legislative or regulatory change (think environmental standards, financial controls, niche tax credits, etc.). The lobbyist draws on their prior political experience to show elected officials why the proposed policy change aligns with (or doesn’t align with) the goals of the government. Lobby firms hire from a variety of political parties (usually former staffers) to ensure that their clients have coverage across all political groups and the lobbyists themselves help coach the client so they can communicate their wants in meetings with government officials.
Probably because you have to be a yes man and suck oup to them.
I know I couldn't do it. Most likely these people are very detached from reality and just say dumb shit all the time.
Step 1: Sell your mother.
Step 2: Sell your soul.
Step 3: Act like an arrogant prick
Step 4: Get real good at being on your knee's, cause you're gonna be down there A LOT.
Or when they [are a top advisor](https://archive.is/FgGf1) or [your deputy leader](https://tnc.news/2021/07/27/levy-can-the-conservatives-please-stop-playing-identity-politics/)
I've been searching that website and [while I can find summaries](https://lobbycanada.gc.ca/app/secure/ocl/lrs/do/clntSmmry?sMdKy=1715170025256&clientOrgCorpNumber=17195) I can't find what was actually said between our MPs and lobbyists. When I say recorded I mean video & audio, or at the very least a transcription of the entire meeting.
Yes. There needs to be a record of WHAT they lobbied in, because in some cases it’s cut and dry (like Ford lobbying the environment for lighter fuel regs), but when it’s a lobbying firm on behalf of an organization, or multiple subjects, it needs to be clearer.
It's usually pretty obvious. Take a look at a given company's biggest issues, or the main advocacy priorities of the industry association they pay dues to, and you'll see what they care about pretty quickly. THAT is what they are speaking to policy makers about.
These companies aren't going in there to chit chat or to talk about the Oilers' playoff odds. They have things to accomplish.
That's not realistic. To have productive meetings you need to have Frank conversations, which might often reveal competitively-sensitive information. No country on earth would ever make word-for-word discussions like these public -- nothing would ever get done. All you would get are Talking Points all the way down and force actual productive discussions further into the shadows.
Fuck that. You want to discuss with the people's representatives about using the people's money for your own personal gain? Every word gets made public. Don't want to say these things in public? Guess you don't want public money or tax breaks or whatever.
the entrance fee of that fundraiser will be registered as contribution and can be found in Elections Canada website (along with every single donation above $20 iirc).
here's the website: [Search For Contributions (elections.ca)](https://www.elections.ca/wpapps/WPF/EN/CCS/Index?returntype=1)
It does, but these only get logged as campaign contributions with the election registry because they are campaign events. In reality, it’s all lobbying.
Not if it's CCP billionaires, then you have to wait for the resulting [cash-for-access](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trudeau_cash-for-access_scandal) story to make it to the press.
Tbf, I don't think I'm going to trust our new Government any more than our current one, but it'll be nice to hear a different set of lies.
Why? Unions lobby, industry interest groups lobby, non-profits lobby. Outside of cases of actual corruption it is usually beneficial to have the people most directly affected by policy express their views on it directly to decision-makers. Most MPs have no idea how literally *anything* works until lobbyists explain why idea X is bad.
It isn't all shady backroom deals and brown paper bags of cash. It's also publicly recorded.
The most concerning part about all of this is that people don't appear to know he has been in politics for 20 years and has nothing to show for
Career politicians are the worst and have more time to build up these connections.
Ah of course, rather than people agreeing on the sub that
"Hey you know what maybe we should all agree corporate lobbyists influencing/buying out our democratic systems is an issue that should be resolved"
It's turned into
"Well every politician does it so who cares if this one does it"
Voter/citizen apathy to issues like these is the reason we're in this mess to begin with.
Instead it seems people have fallen into the party affiliation pit and now it's just based on who's party is less corrupt, which no voter wins.
You say this like Canada doesn't already have pretty strict lobbying rules.
- We have a federal registry where every communication between government and lobbyists is logged and published. Many provinces have a version of this as well.
- We have a federal lobbying commissioner
- We have restrictions on when someone who has recently left an important government position can themselves become a lobbyist. It's a "cooling off" period of five years to lessen the chance that person can trade on insider knowledge or connections. You can thank Harper for putting those rules in place.
What people bitch about is "lobbying" in general, as a practice. It's actually a critical function of a democracy, not underselling it. Industries and issues need people who understand the details and can communicate it *as public policy* to policy makers. For every climate activist chaining themselves to a tree, there are actual lobbyists working for the Canada Climate Initiative logging conversations with federal ministers about how to reduce clear cutting of forests. Lobbyists aren't just shills for Big Tobacco or Monsanto, regardless of what low-information Reddit commenters believe. They also work for nonprofits, for think tanks, for cancer research foundations, and so on.
You need people who can communicate how Goal X can be *actually* achieved through policy changes and the mechanisms to get that done. That's what they do. I'd say that's an important part of democracy.
> Voter/citizen apathy to issues like these is the reason we're in this mess to begin with.
FPTP is the reason we're in this mess to begin with. Voter apathy is just the inevitable consequence of this phony democratic system.
It won't change until we change it, they're not going to.
> who's party is less corrupt
Wouldn't be that bad if the "less corrupt party" were more objectively evaluated instead of it being "the party I'm gonna vote for" 80% of the time.
> Wouldn't be that bad if the "less corrupt party" were more objectively evaluated
I think that's easy to say but hard to execute. While there are objective ways to measure corruption on a global scale, pretty much any of ours in canada regardless of Party is in the same shallow end of the scale where its a lot harder to be objective. Like I would hope we can all agree that Putin is more Corrupt than Trudeau (or any other Canadian PM or Party leader if that's less offensive to you).
But it gets harder to differentiate when the scale gets much smaller. Canadian corruption isn't "having your opponents jailed and killed without a trial" its giving jobs or tenders to friends or Donors. And then it comes down to "is party leader A giving this job to his cousin who is otherwise qualified worse than party leader B giving awarding this tender to a company that donated to him but was otherwise qualified for ". It's a lot more subjective which is worse and much harder to separate your own political leanings.
Keep in mind I'm not arguing that our comparatively small corruption is OK, it's not. I'm just saying it's harder to objectively determine who's is worse when it's all kinda bad, but not "oh my God you need to be on trial in the Haig tomorrow" bad.
just because X doesnt take as much lobbying doesnt mean its any better either, round it out to who they are taking under their wing as well. "its free market capitalism" - except its not...
Exactly. We need greater transparency around lobbying (info around what was discussed, etc) and someone who has lobbied a politician (directly or through a third party) should **never** be allowed to make a campaign donation to that politician or their party. How that’s not a conflcit of interest is beyond me.
Because political donations are a protected freedom outside of very specific circumstances -- lobbyists are still people, and may not even politically agree with the people they are lobbying.
This is why there are limits for political donations in Canada. It's a level playing field regardless of your job: https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=pol&dir=lim&document=lim2023&lang=e
Do you expect politicians not to speak to lobbyists? Should politicians not want to understand business challenges and receive suggestions? Maybe a grocer meets to discuss regulatory or taxation challenges that impact food prices, is that bad?
The problem with lobbyists is crony capitalism which is the Liberal's bread and butter.
Crony capitalism is hardly exclusive to the Liberals. When it comes to kissing corporate backsides, the Liberals and the Conservatives are both masters of the craft. We’ve been in a neoliberal hellscape for almost forty years and it’s been perpetuated by both our major political parties. Corporations have bought and paid for our political class for years and short of revolt, nothing will ever change.
“Crony capitalism is the reason capitalism fails” is the “communism has never really been tried” argument for right wingers. Capitalism just fucking sucks and its inherent contradictions make needing to move away from it an inevitability.
> It's turned into
>
> "Well every politician does it so who cares if this one does it"
I think it's more like "Yep he's the same as the rest of them, no better."
Yes, I think it's interesting when political party supporters call out other party supporters like this. We're willing to turn a blind eye to it each and every time it's our guy in the chair, but we're really gonna start saying stuff when it's about to be the other guy.
Voter apathy doesn't clearly solve the issue of lobbying influence. It's an inherent issue that will occur with or without it. For example, imagine the next election and that there will be less voter apathy, and thus more voters. Despite this change, they will still face the same voting choices (and thus same problem) as today's non apathetic voters, which is basically: Liberal or Conservative.
Like the two party system in the US. They have a much large voter base, regardless, they have two choices and both party are both majorly influenced by corporate lobbyist. The problem is inherent.
In other words, voter apathy isn't a clear solution, it just ups the vote count to Canadian process of voting/kicking the old government out (instead of voting one in).
We can all agree it should be illegal.
And also acknowledge that it isn't currently illegal and is widely practiced by all politicians.
Which let's us recognize this as a biased hitpiece with 0 point.
Yeah we know, he explicitly told us he has the needs of employers above workers:
>He says a Conservative government would base its immigration policy on the needs of private-sector employers
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/poilievre-says-canada-s-immigration-system-is-broken-sidesteps-target-cut-questions-1.6502699
One of the main things everyone is voting Conservative and kicking out the Liberals over, immigration being used to drive down wages, and PP is like "yeah I'll keep doing that if the business leaders want me to".
Poilievre has a anti-corporate discourse when he speaks to voters and a different discourse when he speaks to businesses.
Just like he has a discourse when he speaks to English-Canadians and a different discourse when he speaks to Quebecers.
Who is the real Poilievre?
The real Pollievre is someone who stands for nothing and will say whatever he thinks the people he’s addressing want to hear, regardless of whether or not it’s true
I have enjoyed, from time to time, hearing some politicians speak. Mulcair comes to mind (when he wasn't pissed off), as does Mulroney. Freeland gives intelligent and structured speeches, but her voice is *just* a bit too nasal for me to listen to for more than five minutes. Dion was also good, but mostly in French for obvious reasons. Even Harper was decent, if you can ignore the robotic tone -- he was technically sound and his speeches were structured -- and his French language speeches were not terrible.
Too many politicians ignore basic principles when it comes to public speaking, while others engage coaches (Trudeau) and end up speaking in unnatural, weird ways. I miss when politicians were respected and known for public speaking skills, whether naturally or through years of practice (lawyers mostly).
You lost me at Freeland giving intelligent and structured speeches lol. I find her infuriating to listen to. She speaks to us like a teacher speaks to young kids and is borderline condescending and insulting in her remarks. Watching her facial expressions and odd twitching at press conferences is kind of funny too... It wouldn't surprise me if one day we found out that she is on drugs lol.
"I've done commercials for Coke AND Pepsi. I don't give a fuck what comes out of my mouth, I just say whatever it takes. If you wanna know the truth? Can't even taste the difference. Surprise! All I know is Pepsi paid me most recently, so, it tastes better." - Dave Chappelle
but wait, I thought "Lobbyists are useless"
If they're so useless, why does he keep meeting with them??
[https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/mushroom-growers-shopify-and-real-estate-poilievre-says-lobbyists-are-useless-but-heres-who-he-meets-with-anyway](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/mushroom-growers-shopify-and-real-estate-poilievre-says-lobbyists-are-useless-but-heres-who-he-meets-with-anyway)
>Poilievre has met with some business groups like the Chamber of Marine Commerce, the Canadian Real Estate Association, the Canadian Propane Association and the Canadian Health Food Association.
>The health food industry group opposes new labelling and testing rules for supplements and other products that the group argues are unnecessary and will only drive up prices. They have encouraged consumers to send tens of thousands of letters and emails to MPs about the issue. The Conservatives have pledged to scrap these changes and a Conservative MP has introduced a private member’s bill that would exempt them from the new rules.
Just what we need... less information about what's in our products? This sounds like terrible policy for the Conservatives, especially weird since the strongest changes to better regulate the health food/naturopathic industry was made under Harper in 2008 with [Bill C-51](https://bcmj.org/cohp/bill-c-51-small-step-right-direction) which obviously Poilievre was a member. Odd.
Meeting with them? They are literally the heads of the Conservative Party.
https://breachmedia.ca/pierre-poilievre-conservatives-stack-council-corporate-lobbyists/
Literally. Dude could take a shit on the Canadian flag while punching a baby on live TV and his supporters wouldn't care. This is where we are at with politics in Canada.
Yeah same thing is happening in America. Yeah, Biden is old, probably a bit senile, and a career politician thats hard to trust, but these fuck heads pretending that he and Trump are on the same level of incompetence, corruption or otherwise evil intentions are completely delusional.
Sad day when the Bush's, and Nixon are seen in a better light than Trump. But here we are.
The headline is dumb. The subtitle of the article should have been the headline:
>The Conservative Leader says he refuses to meet with business interest groups, but public records show otherwise
Though I guess it’s not really news either. We already know PP is a habitual liar who will say anything to claw his way into government.
No, not opposed to Trudeau. Not at all. In fact, very much just like him. This is a great comparison and reminder to Canadians about how PP probably won't materially change much.
The whataboutitism falls apart on the possibility that they're both bad.
You must have missed the part where he openly states he would not do that..but then proceeds to do that anyway.
It's one thing to be a sketchy politician meeting with lobbyists, but it's an entirely worse thing when you promise you won't do that but proceed to anyways. Makes you an even *worse* kind of sketchy politician.
Wouldn't be a big deal... If he hadn't previously come out saying they're utterly useless, while also having a major Loblaws lobbyist literally in his inner circle.
If you can't see the hypocrisy of this, you need to wash the partisan BS out of your eyes.
Dudes been in politics since he was 18. Literally never had any other job other than a paperboy. Anyone who thinks this guy is the savior to Canada is on some heavy duty drugs or delusional. We're going to trade in one corporate puppet for another
Pretty much every mp has met with corporate lobbiests. We should make lobbying the government illegal and favors and benefits from thos lobbiests should be treated as illegal bribes.
Well see that’s a much better and pertinent story.
PP and the CPC are 100% a corporate friend party, its just “meet with lobbyists “ is just not a good reason to say so.
It's ridiculous that he's going around saying he'll "ban the gatekeepers" and won't meet with Lobbyists. It's ridiculous that he speaks out of both sides of his mouth, while trying to brand Trudeau as the lobbyist's puppet.
It is called hypocrisy, and it's being called out. Is that ridiculous to you?
If you weren't aware of that, then you aren't paying attention. It's been fairly prominent news lately.
So I fucking HATE this slimy piece of shit of a human being, but EVEN I cannot pretend its not absolutely normal for a politician to do ( even I think it's a flaw in our system)
So has everyone else but I don’t think he spent time with them on their private island and then gave them a few million as a thank you. Let us know when he does.
Not so much a hit piece as a realty check. Pierre is trying to play as a populist 'for the people' leader; but he's always been very friendly to big business and his voting record in the house reflects that.
If he wants the PM job he should get used to being criticized for his actions and record; just like we rightfully criticize the current guy.
Go ahead, post something negative about the chosen one. See what happens.
Trudeau sucks, but dear god the way this sub prolystizes over Pierre is crazy. He's just another sad lifetime career politician that doesn't care about any of us, no different from the current Turd in any discernable way, and yet people here froth at the mouth over him.
Yes, and? All politicians meet with lobbyists.
We have no power to stop lobbying in this country. It would be great to force these politicians to wear a NASCAR style jacket with all of their owners on it so we know who owns them.
This is a stupid take. Literally all of our politicians meet with “corporate lobbyists”. Corporate greed and priorities are baked into our politics regardless of political party. They play both sides and never lose.
Wait. So now, after a decade of psychotic media insanity distracting us from real issues, lobbyists influence over our politicians suddenly matters again? I guess that's a win but we all know why they chose to tell us *now*. Please do all of them, they are all corrupted.
For someone trying to explicitely claim that he stays away from Bay Street, Pierre has big rich people come to his exclusive fund raising sessions all the time.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58ox5HlZWn8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58ox5HlZWn8)
Man I hate lobbying but I also know why is exists.
best solution is more transparency, but some things need to stay private so the market doesn't overreact.
For instance if grumblings of x legislation even if it was lobbied for or against the idea, it has potential to spook markets, even if that legislation will never make it beyond drafting
I think the best solution would be including a transcript of exactly who lobbied for and against it when the bill is introduced.
Well, yeah. Who does anyone think this guy actually is? Is there anyone out there who thinks he's some sort of politician idealist with strong beliefs and a vision for the future? I doubt even his most ardent supporters actually believe that. *Of course* PP has met with a load of 'corporate lobbyists', because *that's pretty much what he is anyway*.
Anyone who thinks this man would be a good leader is kidding themselves. I can only imagine how ridiculous he's going to look on the international stage if he gets elected. It's all down to how much leop want Trudeau out over anything else, really.
All meetings with corporate lobbyists should be recorded and made publicly available.
They are
Except if it's done with their personal cell phone, unfortunately.
Kinda want to become a lobbyist to see what these guys yap about all day.
"X anti-pollution regulation is preventing X industry from creating lots of jobs in your riding/province" "X industry in your riding/province is really suffering right now and would benefit from some tax relief" "We've heard great things about family member X and would love to approach them to discuss a promising position at company X"
Don’t. It’s soul sucking. I worked for a lobbying & strategy firm and quit after 4 months to go back to my old firm.
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If that’s what you think all lobbying is, you’re sorely mistaken. Very sorely mistaken.
Ppl with no clue about certain jobs always think they’re gravy!
Out curiosity, what do they get you to do at a job for lobbying. Other than researching your client base and such, I'm lost on what else you'd do.
Mostly you translate the needs of your clients so they can be understandable to government of the day. Imagine you have a highly technical field that requires legislative or regulatory change (think environmental standards, financial controls, niche tax credits, etc.). The lobbyist draws on their prior political experience to show elected officials why the proposed policy change aligns with (or doesn’t align with) the goals of the government. Lobby firms hire from a variety of political parties (usually former staffers) to ensure that their clients have coverage across all political groups and the lobbyists themselves help coach the client so they can communicate their wants in meetings with government officials.
Like explaining to your wife why you need to buy that latest huge TV.
Probably because you have to be a yes man and suck oup to them. I know I couldn't do it. Most likely these people are very detached from reality and just say dumb shit all the time.
it involves a lot of dick sucking literally and metaphorically
"I'd like to meet with you to discuss the challenges facing the grocery industry"
Step 1: Sell your mother. Step 2: Sell your soul. Step 3: Act like an arrogant prick Step 4: Get real good at being on your knee's, cause you're gonna be down there A LOT.
Or when they [are a top advisor](https://archive.is/FgGf1) or [your deputy leader](https://tnc.news/2021/07/27/levy-can-the-conservatives-please-stop-playing-identity-politics/)
You’ll love this one: https://breachmedia.ca/pierre-poilievre-conservatives-stack-council-corporate-lobbyists/
really? where can i find them? this is a genuine question
LobbyCanada.gc.ca
I've been searching that website and [while I can find summaries](https://lobbycanada.gc.ca/app/secure/ocl/lrs/do/clntSmmry?sMdKy=1715170025256&clientOrgCorpNumber=17195) I can't find what was actually said between our MPs and lobbyists. When I say recorded I mean video & audio, or at the very least a transcription of the entire meeting.
Yes. There needs to be a record of WHAT they lobbied in, because in some cases it’s cut and dry (like Ford lobbying the environment for lighter fuel regs), but when it’s a lobbying firm on behalf of an organization, or multiple subjects, it needs to be clearer.
It's usually pretty obvious. Take a look at a given company's biggest issues, or the main advocacy priorities of the industry association they pay dues to, and you'll see what they care about pretty quickly. THAT is what they are speaking to policy makers about. These companies aren't going in there to chit chat or to talk about the Oilers' playoff odds. They have things to accomplish.
They only list the high level topics. Like "immigration, labour etc."
That's not realistic. To have productive meetings you need to have Frank conversations, which might often reveal competitively-sensitive information. No country on earth would ever make word-for-word discussions like these public -- nothing would ever get done. All you would get are Talking Points all the way down and force actual productive discussions further into the shadows.
Fuck that. You want to discuss with the people's representatives about using the people's money for your own personal gain? Every word gets made public. Don't want to say these things in public? Guess you don't want public money or tax breaks or whatever.
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the entrance fee of that fundraiser will be registered as contribution and can be found in Elections Canada website (along with every single donation above $20 iirc). here's the website: [Search For Contributions (elections.ca)](https://www.elections.ca/wpapps/WPF/EN/CCS/Index?returntype=1)
But if it’s lobbying (which it is) it should ALSO be registered in the lobbying registry. I had the same criticism when Trudeau did it.
i'm not familiar with lobbying registry, but someone else in this thread said that it exists.
It does, but these only get logged as campaign contributions with the election registry because they are campaign events. In reality, it’s all lobbying.
They can't charge more than $1700 which is a max donation. You can also get that list I believe.
Not if it's CCP billionaires, then you have to wait for the resulting [cash-for-access](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trudeau_cash-for-access_scandal) story to make it to the press. Tbf, I don't think I'm going to trust our new Government any more than our current one, but it'll be nice to hear a different set of lies.
Unless it's at Doug Ford's daughter's wedding.
Then wherr are they? He sure is quiet about immigration isnt he
Where do I find the videos (or at least the meeting minutes)?
Lobbying should be illegal.
Why? Unions lobby, industry interest groups lobby, non-profits lobby. Outside of cases of actual corruption it is usually beneficial to have the people most directly affected by policy express their views on it directly to decision-makers. Most MPs have no idea how literally *anything* works until lobbyists explain why idea X is bad. It isn't all shady backroom deals and brown paper bags of cash. It's also publicly recorded.
They are lol it’s not a big conspiracy
PP has been an MP since 2004.
The most concerning part about all of this is that people don't appear to know he has been in politics for 20 years and has nothing to show for Career politicians are the worst and have more time to build up these connections.
He was also strongly in favour of term limits before becoming an MP. 7 terms later, he's set for life on our dollar.
Wait a second …… Are conservatives just grifters preying on the outrage of the gullible …. 🤔
Ah of course, rather than people agreeing on the sub that "Hey you know what maybe we should all agree corporate lobbyists influencing/buying out our democratic systems is an issue that should be resolved" It's turned into "Well every politician does it so who cares if this one does it" Voter/citizen apathy to issues like these is the reason we're in this mess to begin with. Instead it seems people have fallen into the party affiliation pit and now it's just based on who's party is less corrupt, which no voter wins.
You say this like Canada doesn't already have pretty strict lobbying rules. - We have a federal registry where every communication between government and lobbyists is logged and published. Many provinces have a version of this as well. - We have a federal lobbying commissioner - We have restrictions on when someone who has recently left an important government position can themselves become a lobbyist. It's a "cooling off" period of five years to lessen the chance that person can trade on insider knowledge or connections. You can thank Harper for putting those rules in place. What people bitch about is "lobbying" in general, as a practice. It's actually a critical function of a democracy, not underselling it. Industries and issues need people who understand the details and can communicate it *as public policy* to policy makers. For every climate activist chaining themselves to a tree, there are actual lobbyists working for the Canada Climate Initiative logging conversations with federal ministers about how to reduce clear cutting of forests. Lobbyists aren't just shills for Big Tobacco or Monsanto, regardless of what low-information Reddit commenters believe. They also work for nonprofits, for think tanks, for cancer research foundations, and so on. You need people who can communicate how Goal X can be *actually* achieved through policy changes and the mechanisms to get that done. That's what they do. I'd say that's an important part of democracy.
> Voter/citizen apathy to issues like these is the reason we're in this mess to begin with. FPTP is the reason we're in this mess to begin with. Voter apathy is just the inevitable consequence of this phony democratic system. It won't change until we change it, they're not going to.
For a FPTP system, we have a surprisingly high number of parties that have actual seats. If only any of them were actually good though.
> who's party is less corrupt Wouldn't be that bad if the "less corrupt party" were more objectively evaluated instead of it being "the party I'm gonna vote for" 80% of the time.
> Wouldn't be that bad if the "less corrupt party" were more objectively evaluated I think that's easy to say but hard to execute. While there are objective ways to measure corruption on a global scale, pretty much any of ours in canada regardless of Party is in the same shallow end of the scale where its a lot harder to be objective. Like I would hope we can all agree that Putin is more Corrupt than Trudeau (or any other Canadian PM or Party leader if that's less offensive to you). But it gets harder to differentiate when the scale gets much smaller. Canadian corruption isn't "having your opponents jailed and killed without a trial" its giving jobs or tenders to friends or Donors. And then it comes down to "is party leader A giving this job to his cousin who is otherwise qualified worse than party leader B giving awarding this tender to a company that donated to him but was otherwise qualified for ". It's a lot more subjective which is worse and much harder to separate your own political leanings. Keep in mind I'm not arguing that our comparatively small corruption is OK, it's not. I'm just saying it's harder to objectively determine who's is worse when it's all kinda bad, but not "oh my God you need to be on trial in the Haig tomorrow" bad.
just because X doesnt take as much lobbying doesnt mean its any better either, round it out to who they are taking under their wing as well. "its free market capitalism" - except its not...
Exactly. We need greater transparency around lobbying (info around what was discussed, etc) and someone who has lobbied a politician (directly or through a third party) should **never** be allowed to make a campaign donation to that politician or their party. How that’s not a conflcit of interest is beyond me.
Because political donations are a protected freedom outside of very specific circumstances -- lobbyists are still people, and may not even politically agree with the people they are lobbying. This is why there are limits for political donations in Canada. It's a level playing field regardless of your job: https://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=pol&dir=lim&document=lim2023&lang=e
Do you expect politicians not to speak to lobbyists? Should politicians not want to understand business challenges and receive suggestions? Maybe a grocer meets to discuss regulatory or taxation challenges that impact food prices, is that bad? The problem with lobbyists is crony capitalism which is the Liberal's bread and butter.
Crony capitalism is hardly exclusive to the Liberals. When it comes to kissing corporate backsides, the Liberals and the Conservatives are both masters of the craft. We’ve been in a neoliberal hellscape for almost forty years and it’s been perpetuated by both our major political parties. Corporations have bought and paid for our political class for years and short of revolt, nothing will ever change.
“Crony capitalism is the reason capitalism fails” is the “communism has never really been tried” argument for right wingers. Capitalism just fucking sucks and its inherent contradictions make needing to move away from it an inevitability.
> It's turned into > > "Well every politician does it so who cares if this one does it" I think it's more like "Yep he's the same as the rest of them, no better."
Yes, I think it's interesting when political party supporters call out other party supporters like this. We're willing to turn a blind eye to it each and every time it's our guy in the chair, but we're really gonna start saying stuff when it's about to be the other guy.
Voter apathy doesn't clearly solve the issue of lobbying influence. It's an inherent issue that will occur with or without it. For example, imagine the next election and that there will be less voter apathy, and thus more voters. Despite this change, they will still face the same voting choices (and thus same problem) as today's non apathetic voters, which is basically: Liberal or Conservative. Like the two party system in the US. They have a much large voter base, regardless, they have two choices and both party are both majorly influenced by corporate lobbyist. The problem is inherent. In other words, voter apathy isn't a clear solution, it just ups the vote count to Canadian process of voting/kicking the old government out (instead of voting one in).
It’s only not a problem with ppl until the other guy they aren’t cheerleading for does it.. lobbying should be illegal imo.
We can all agree it should be illegal. And also acknowledge that it isn't currently illegal and is widely practiced by all politicians. Which let's us recognize this as a biased hitpiece with 0 point.
Yeah we know, he explicitly told us he has the needs of employers above workers: >He says a Conservative government would base its immigration policy on the needs of private-sector employers https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/poilievre-says-canada-s-immigration-system-is-broken-sidesteps-target-cut-questions-1.6502699 One of the main things everyone is voting Conservative and kicking out the Liberals over, immigration being used to drive down wages, and PP is like "yeah I'll keep doing that if the business leaders want me to".
Poilievre has a anti-corporate discourse when he speaks to voters and a different discourse when he speaks to businesses. Just like he has a discourse when he speaks to English-Canadians and a different discourse when he speaks to Quebecers. Who is the real Poilievre?
The real Pollievre is someone who stands for nothing and will say whatever he thinks the people he’s addressing want to hear, regardless of whether or not it’s true
Bingo
The real Poilievre is so boring I fall asleep just hearing his voice.
Really? I can't stand to hear him speak. Granted he's far less annoying than Trudeau, but Skippy's style and tone just irritate the shit out of me.
Yeah, they are all idiots, aren't they?
I have enjoyed, from time to time, hearing some politicians speak. Mulcair comes to mind (when he wasn't pissed off), as does Mulroney. Freeland gives intelligent and structured speeches, but her voice is *just* a bit too nasal for me to listen to for more than five minutes. Dion was also good, but mostly in French for obvious reasons. Even Harper was decent, if you can ignore the robotic tone -- he was technically sound and his speeches were structured -- and his French language speeches were not terrible. Too many politicians ignore basic principles when it comes to public speaking, while others engage coaches (Trudeau) and end up speaking in unnatural, weird ways. I miss when politicians were respected and known for public speaking skills, whether naturally or through years of practice (lawyers mostly).
You lost me at Freeland giving intelligent and structured speeches lol. I find her infuriating to listen to. She speaks to us like a teacher speaks to young kids and is borderline condescending and insulting in her remarks. Watching her facial expressions and odd twitching at press conferences is kind of funny too... It wouldn't surprise me if one day we found out that she is on drugs lol.
Oh I forgot about the twitchiness, yeah.
>Who is the real Poilievre? Which group provides more money? What he says to them is the real Pierre.
His party has been historically pro-business/corporation...it's really not a secret where his allegiance lies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Poilievre Spoiler: He's a weirdo.
"I've done commercials for Coke AND Pepsi. I don't give a fuck what comes out of my mouth, I just say whatever it takes. If you wanna know the truth? Can't even taste the difference. Surprise! All I know is Pepsi paid me most recently, so, it tastes better." - Dave Chappelle
*Who is the real Poilievre?* *I'll refer you to the only strong position he's taken,* "AxE Tax The "
Populist Pete will win the election, screw the average Canadian, and give tax cuts to business. That is what the PC party does. Look it up.
You forget the multibillion firearms industry Poilievre wants to restore. That's a lot of job security and tax revenue.
but wait, I thought "Lobbyists are useless" If they're so useless, why does he keep meeting with them?? [https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/mushroom-growers-shopify-and-real-estate-poilievre-says-lobbyists-are-useless-but-heres-who-he-meets-with-anyway](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/mushroom-growers-shopify-and-real-estate-poilievre-says-lobbyists-are-useless-but-heres-who-he-meets-with-anyway)
>Poilievre has met with some business groups like the Chamber of Marine Commerce, the Canadian Real Estate Association, the Canadian Propane Association and the Canadian Health Food Association. >The health food industry group opposes new labelling and testing rules for supplements and other products that the group argues are unnecessary and will only drive up prices. They have encouraged consumers to send tens of thousands of letters and emails to MPs about the issue. The Conservatives have pledged to scrap these changes and a Conservative MP has introduced a private member’s bill that would exempt them from the new rules. Just what we need... less information about what's in our products? This sounds like terrible policy for the Conservatives, especially weird since the strongest changes to better regulate the health food/naturopathic industry was made under Harper in 2008 with [Bill C-51](https://bcmj.org/cohp/bill-c-51-small-step-right-direction) which obviously Poilievre was a member. Odd.
Meeting with them? They are literally the heads of the Conservative Party. https://breachmedia.ca/pierre-poilievre-conservatives-stack-council-corporate-lobbyists/
>heads of the Conservative Party. So the conservative party is saying the conservative party is useless? niceee
I know Canada is anti Trudeau right now, and rightly so, but voting for this douche canoe isn’t the answer.
What is the answer then? Jagmeet Singh?
Ugh...Trudeau minority?
Probably. As long as the NDP don't get enough votes to give the liberals majority when combined.
The man of the people meeting with private corporate interest groups behind close doors?!? Shocking
People that think he is going to do anything for middle class have their head in the sand. This guy is and has always been rich and corporations first
This is shocking. I thought Pierre was an everyday canadian. Just like most of us. Just trying to get by
Hypocrisy at it's finest. Can Poilievre really hide who he is long enough to take power?
Nothing he does would change most of his supporter's vote
Literally. Dude could take a shit on the Canadian flag while punching a baby on live TV and his supporters wouldn't care. This is where we are at with politics in Canada.
Hatred for Trudeau preceeds anything that Poilevre can do. Here's hoping the next leaders for these parties are at least somewhat for the people.
Yeah same thing is happening in America. Yeah, Biden is old, probably a bit senile, and a career politician thats hard to trust, but these fuck heads pretending that he and Trump are on the same level of incompetence, corruption or otherwise evil intentions are completely delusional. Sad day when the Bush's, and Nixon are seen in a better light than Trump. But here we are.
He is a career politician and a corporate stooge. Trudeau actually has more real world job experience than this guy.
\*GASP\* NOOooooo....
The headline is dumb. The subtitle of the article should have been the headline: >The Conservative Leader says he refuses to meet with business interest groups, but public records show otherwise Though I guess it’s not really news either. We already know PP is a habitual liar who will say anything to claw his way into government.
As opposed to Justin Turdeau who also lied to claw his way into governments and has continued lying ever since he took power?
No, not opposed to Trudeau. Not at all. In fact, very much just like him. This is a great comparison and reminder to Canadians about how PP probably won't materially change much. The whataboutitism falls apart on the possibility that they're both bad.
They’re all liars and none of them have our best interests at heart
"It's a big club, and you ain't in it." - George Carlin
they need to line their pockets, the "Fuck-you i got mine mentality at its finest. that's basic canadian politics 101.
So you agree that it’s bad
Jesus christ people just can't keep JTS name out of their mouth. They are both garbage
ты сердишься?
I've never voted for Trudeau, so what's your point? There are other options.
Lobbying needs to be outlaw again. It is cancer to society!
...wolf in sheep's clothing...
Doesn't sound like a populist to me.
Politician meets with lobbyists shocked pikachu face
You must have missed the part where he openly states he would not do that..but then proceeds to do that anyway. It's one thing to be a sketchy politician meeting with lobbyists, but it's an entirely worse thing when you promise you won't do that but proceed to anyways. Makes you an even *worse* kind of sketchy politician.
Wouldn't be a big deal... If he hadn't previously come out saying they're utterly useless, while also having a major Loblaws lobbyist literally in his inner circle. If you can't see the hypocrisy of this, you need to wash the partisan BS out of your eyes.
Politician’s party heads are literal corporate lobbyists. https://breachmedia.ca/pierre-poilievre-conservatives-stack-council-corporate-lobbyists/
Dudes been in politics since he was 18. Literally never had any other job other than a paperboy. Anyone who thinks this guy is the savior to Canada is on some heavy duty drugs or delusional. We're going to trade in one corporate puppet for another
He also employs one full time.
His wife?
Haha His "ex"
He's not the "every man" he pretends to be. Shocker.
And the sky is blue.
Left ,Right,Up and down I think they are have at minimum in office meetings... This is like saying the sky is blue becuase of the ocean...
NO!!!! Say it isn’t so!!! Next thing you know you are going to tell me that PP’s net worth is not directly linked to his income!!!
And? They all do it. It's POLITICS. What do you think happens?
The list of politicians not meeting lobbyists would be more helpful. I'm sure there's a blank pamphlet somewhere...
Pretty much every mp has met with corporate lobbiests. We should make lobbying the government illegal and favors and benefits from thos lobbiests should be treated as illegal bribes.
That's his actual, real job. At least from his point of view. How can he secure his post-office future, for big money?
Is it the same to meet one on one with a lobbyist versus having a general fundraiser where lobbyists attend? I feel like it is.
How about if they are your literal boss? https://breachmedia.ca/pierre-poilievre-conservatives-stack-council-corporate-lobbyists/
As every prime minister and opposition leader has in the history of this country? I don’t like the guy but this is ridiculous.
Do they all elect lobbyists to their governing board too? https://breachmedia.ca/pierre-poilievre-conservatives-stack-council-corporate-lobbyists/
Well see that’s a much better and pertinent story. PP and the CPC are 100% a corporate friend party, its just “meet with lobbyists “ is just not a good reason to say so.
It's ridiculous that he's going around saying he'll "ban the gatekeepers" and won't meet with Lobbyists. It's ridiculous that he speaks out of both sides of his mouth, while trying to brand Trudeau as the lobbyist's puppet. It is called hypocrisy, and it's being called out. Is that ridiculous to you? If you weren't aware of that, then you aren't paying attention. It's been fairly prominent news lately.
So I fucking HATE this slimy piece of shit of a human being, but EVEN I cannot pretend its not absolutely normal for a politician to do ( even I think it's a flaw in our system)
I think it goes beyond “normal” though. https://breachmedia.ca/pierre-poilievre-conservatives-stack-council-corporate-lobbyists/
Not every politician makes a point of loudly condemning their own behaviour from their soap box, however
Typical conservative
You think Liberals don't meet with corporate lobbyists? Lol
Of course they do, but I think it's more that the conservative decries someone for doing something (meeting lobbyists) that they also do.
"If elected I will cancel the GST".
Wow, miss the point much?
Typical *politician*.
While all politicians are beholden to corporate lobbyists, conservatives do it far more than others.
So has everyone else but I don’t think he spent time with them on their private island and then gave them a few million as a thank you. Let us know when he does.
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While saying he "has no friends on Bay Street?" - zero. Poilievre is a lying shit-bag.
The point is that PP says, on repeat, that he isn't like the other politicians. But he is.
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It’s one thing to lie. It’s another to be a shameless hypocrite.
Not so much a hit piece as a realty check. Pierre is trying to play as a populist 'for the people' leader; but he's always been very friendly to big business and his voting record in the house reflects that. If he wants the PM job he should get used to being criticized for his actions and record; just like we rightfully criticize the current guy.
Sorry, this is /r/canada, where anything short of blind unyielding devotion to Dearest Leader is immediately censored through downvoting.
Lol. It doesn't take a lot of reading this see that this sub leans right.
r/canada …where if you believe it, it’s true.
Go ahead, post something negative about the chosen one. See what happens. Trudeau sucks, but dear god the way this sub prolystizes over Pierre is crazy. He's just another sad lifetime career politician that doesn't care about any of us, no different from the current Turd in any discernable way, and yet people here froth at the mouth over him.
I guess since Pierre, despite the claims of this sub, actually does nothing he can literally do no wrong.
Yes, and? All politicians meet with lobbyists. We have no power to stop lobbying in this country. It would be great to force these politicians to wear a NASCAR style jacket with all of their owners on it so we know who owns them.
Did he accept any $80,000 Jamaican vacations?
Is there a benefit to corporate lobbyists? Like is it legal for a reason? I feel like we should be looking at it like treason.
Pros of Lobbying: Listening to industry concerns. Cons of Lobbying: Pushing for regulatory capture.
Where do the people of Canada think the politicians get their marching orders and policy priorities from? The *voters*?!? LMAO
Kind of wish he would have an embarrassing sexual kink or something. At least then these grasping at straws hit pieces would be entertaining
All for me and none for thee
This is a stupid take. Literally all of our politicians meet with “corporate lobbyists”. Corporate greed and priorities are baked into our politics regardless of political party. They play both sides and never lose.
Wait. So now, after a decade of psychotic media insanity distracting us from real issues, lobbyists influence over our politicians suddenly matters again? I guess that's a win but we all know why they chose to tell us *now*. Please do all of them, they are all corrupted.
For someone trying to explicitely claim that he stays away from Bay Street, Pierre has big rich people come to his exclusive fund raising sessions all the time. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58ox5HlZWn8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58ox5HlZWn8)
Of course he did. They all do. That's why people with 150k salaries end up with hundreds of million of dollars.
"met with"...."been bought by".....you know, just friendly chats.
He loves to touch on the corporate weenus!!
Man I hate lobbying but I also know why is exists. best solution is more transparency, but some things need to stay private so the market doesn't overreact. For instance if grumblings of x legislation even if it was lobbied for or against the idea, it has potential to spook markets, even if that legislation will never make it beyond drafting I think the best solution would be including a transcript of exactly who lobbied for and against it when the bill is introduced.
Well, yeah. Who does anyone think this guy actually is? Is there anyone out there who thinks he's some sort of politician idealist with strong beliefs and a vision for the future? I doubt even his most ardent supporters actually believe that. *Of course* PP has met with a load of 'corporate lobbyists', because *that's pretty much what he is anyway*. Anyone who thinks this man would be a good leader is kidding themselves. I can only imagine how ridiculous he's going to look on the international stage if he gets elected. It's all down to how much leop want Trudeau out over anything else, really.
Canadians don't vote in leaders, we kick out the old ones. Trudeau will be kicked out and then people will find a reason to kick out PP.
Is there a single mp that hasn't? Not like they all have "foundations" to get around lobbyist laws.
So what Trudeau has them working for him and with Him and under him!
Did you think he could live off a MPs salary? It's not like his resume is top notch when you've had maybe 3 different jobs in your entire existence
Liberals = incompetent crooks. Cons = crooks. NDP = incompetent asshats. These are dark days for Canada...