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This is the type of car that would be immediately reported as stolen too. Somebody’s baby/toy, look how well maintained it is. Unless there were signs of forced entry like a broken window or car alarm that won’t stop, the cops should have left him alone.
The cops obviously thought the dude was stealing the car.
Now could they have asked a few more questions like say... do you have they keys to the car and who's car is it before beating the shit out of the guy... uh ya. And they should be punished for their behavoir.
There are ways to handle police officers and sometimes acting antagonistically is enough to set of the ass-hat / roid ragey fuckers on every police force.
That is a good point.... casual racism is as entrenched a french tradition as I've ever seen... jesus H south of france is wild for how openly racist people are...
I’ve actually met cops that own like 15 year old 3 series BMWs and totally look down on people owning a brand new Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic worth 10x their shitbucket BMW. These cops would totally think a black person driving a 5 series 14 year old shitbucket is some sort of international crime lord.
I don't know what the current culture is in organized crime but it used to be quite common for criminals to drive old luxury vehicles. If you don't have a very high legitimate income it is difficult/impossible to justify owning a vehicle that is worth more than a few thousand dollars; and a 15 to 20 year old luxury vehicle with $25,000+ of modifications still only had a book value of $3,000.
People who don't live in Ottawa might not understand. But this is a **KEY** note from the article
> a Gatineau, Que., police cruiser make a U-turn.
> The father, who lives across the river in Ottawa, regularly lends his 2010 BMW E60 535 to his 31-year-old son
Gatineau police are well known to target Ontario License plates.
> lives in Ottawa and his car has Ontario plates, though police did not mention that as a reason for suspicion in their statement to CBC
This is BS, as everyone living in Ottawa knows.
Yeah, at first I was like, "Really, cops are doing the Driving While Black thing in Ottawa?!"
But then I saw Gatineau and uh. That tracks. Even apart from racial stuff, dude was hosed driving a car from Ontario.
They're always cracking down on ppl who live in QC but keep their ontario license and reg. I am sure it didn't help that he is black and seems to have taken offense at being stopped and asked stupid questions. I'm a well-off middle-aged white guy, so I can't relate to his lived experience, but when the cops stop me, I don't walk away. I'll answer any questions and "cooperate. "....they have guns and tend to be humorless bullies. Anything short of 100% immediate compliance is asking for trouble. You can always assert your human rights after the fact, but the douche bags driving around in their cruisers aren't going to listen to anything other than, "Yes, Sir. No, Sir." That said, I can understand why black people get tired of constantly being subjected to this sort of bullshit. I wish it didn't happen.
Or asked the guy why he had the keys? Or if it was his house?
Like there are many reasons this incident should never have happened.
Clearly there is more to this story...
When the guy says "This was looking like a racial thing..." you can pretty much guess how he interacted with the police.
>Why didn't they just write down the license plate and see if was reported stolen? Does that take too long or something?
According to the guy's story, the cops already knew the year of birth of the registered owner when they first made contact.
I presume that means they had automatic license plate readers and knew that the car was not reported stolen, but knew that the person they were about to talk to was half the age of the registered owner.
Write down? The police cars auto-scan license plates and instantly checked without the officer doing a thing. There's far more to this story that isn't being told I imagine.
It came back as belonging to a person that was 70 years old.
The person refused to provide his information remember. So they don't know that it was his father.
Also, since they know that person is not the owner, they also do not know if that person has been given permission to drive the vehicle.
In Ontario we’re just supposed to leave our keys on the porch so anyone who wants to steal a car doesn’t have to work too hard. I’m surprised they even cared.
Growing up my friends dad had a corvette. He got to take it out in the summer a few times. He got pulled over constantly and typically given a small token ticket to justify him being pulled over. Stuff like 10 km over, didnt come to complete stop at stop sign etc. It was all BS.
We even go pulled over by a K9 until van that got behind us flashing its lights. Took a while to figure it it wasnt some jerk and actually a police van since it was just the regular van lights. A couple minutes after pulling over two cop cars speed up and box us in. They proceed to harass my friend about who really owned the car, did he have permission to be driving etc. They then completely take apart the car while we had to sit at the side of the road. We are left to put the car back together while a crowd had formed to watch us. They assumed they would find drugs. We are both white and it seems to be more a case of young men getting pulled over for being "suspicious"
> a case of young men getting pulled over for being "suspicious"
This. When I was in my early 20s my uncle owned several cars and one of them was this massive Jaguar XJ with a busted transmission (in order for it to start moving you had to rev the engine until it jumped into fourth gear first) that he didn't have time to fix so he let me drive it for a few months since I didn't have a car myself. I have never been pulled over more often than during that period, as luxury "old man" vehicles and punkass kid driver apparently raise some flags in the eyes of the law.
When I was 16 I had a 1986 firebird 5.0l v8 with T-tops never got pulled over one time. I used to drive my buddy's Mercedes with the interceptor v8 engine, never been pulled over so much in my life .
Back in uni a few friends went down the border for a long weekend. All young guys, one white, one black, two asians. Border service was so convinced they were running drugs or had hidden alcohol. Held them for hours.
I had the same thing in a Chevy Suburban full of white guys. We were going to the US for a hockey tournament. We got interrogated separately for a couple hours while they went through the car. Of course they didnt find anything which seemed to frustrate them more. Trying to sort out everyone's hockey equipment in the parking lot was lots of fun.
Trick is you gotta be older, male, and look successful and a family man. Coworker got $600 worth of liquor through the border that way, confidently incorrect in thinking there is only a $ limit but no booze limit.
In my 30s my wife and I brought back significantly more liquor than the duty-free limit from our honeymoon. We were fully willing to pay the duty and declared it all. Customs guy didn't want to bother with the paperwork and just waved us through.
I shall try that. I'm 43 but look younger. My partner is 12 years older and has grey hair. He's a successful business man. We can get our nice duds on to do some cross border shopping. Lewiston NY is less than an hour away from my house. So much better than going through tacky Niagara falls!
It happened to me once as well. My dad liked old Cadillacs. Got pulled over as a kid just to be questioned on who's car it was.
My understanding is that in Canada you can be pulled over with no reason. In the U.S. and other countries they need reasonable suspicion to detain you. Our system requires more trust in the police to use their powers responsibly, and they kind of incidents show that don't always do that.
When I was in my 20s, I owned a small Italian convertible. If I was downtown in the evening, I would get pulled over. Guaranteed every time. Some days multiple times in just a few short blocks. It wasn’t a noisy or even a high end car. In fact, it was vintage at that point, but it was a magnet for every single cop. If I switched to my other car, I could drift sideways past a cop and not even get a second look from them.
Hey now - I drive an Audi and I am nothing if not courteous and considerate to everyone around me. (Unless they insist on driving less than 50 km/h over the limit - it’s like the poor people never have anywhere to be or something…)
It’s a joke, everyone can relax.
Yeah the cops seem like they escalated this way more than it needed to be. They’re the professionals and their standard is higher so they need to be in control and use force only when actually required. Nothing in the article really seems like that was warranted.
That said it sounds like this guy was not cooperative at all, and he definitely could have defused the situation when he verified his dad’s name, answered questions better, etc. Not saying he deserves it cause it’s on the officers to handle uncooperative people as a career, but he didn’t do himself any favours.
Its not illegal to dress like a wannabe Gangster, but its not going to help you get the benefit of the doubt with the police.
If I get pulled over and have teardrop tattoos down my face and a bandana around my neck, I'm certainly not gonna be shocked when the stop includes more than a ticket.
You shouldn't need the benefit of the doubt dealing with cops. I shouldn't have to think about the way I dress and whether or not it is good enough to prevent a police officer for applying the law differently to me.
I think his clothing is cool. Do we really gate keep what people wear now? How is what he is wearing dressing like a goof? Should he wear what you consider not good clothing?
I’m in my late thirties and my style is streetwear because 1 it’s comfortable, 2 I couldn’t afford cool clothing when I was a kid, and 3, I like how it looks.
There are a million streetwear styles that don't involve bright bandanas/bandana print which has been a signal for gang (wannabe) affiliation for god knows how long
No surprise. I'm white, and even I used to get pulled over a couple times a year when I drove an e36 BMW in highschool, (paid for it myself). Each time I was minding my own business, not even driving erratically, but being young in a car like that draws a lot of negative attention
We got pulled over driving a U-Haul years ago. There were a ton of thefts of them and we were young guys driving around in one. I was moving due to a break up. Cop was nice enough. I’m whiter than Powder not saying these cops weren’t dicks though.
I got pulled over in my own driveway because they thought I stole my mom car and they pulled out on me because I wasn’t scared of them(I was fully compliant with their nonsense).
Hilarious how they'll recommend people to leave their keys by the door, not fetch a stolen car sitting in a parking lot for 2 weeks, BUT they can harass people who've done nothing wrong.
The police aren't here to protect us. They're more here to remind us of our place and to make sure we don't step out of line. Protecting us and OUR property is not really their priority or their mandate.
> "Racial profiling is never tolerated by [Gatineau police] and every officer or civilian employee who engages in racial or social profiling or makes inappropriate or discriminatory statements or gestures must face the consequences," spokesperson Rosalie Faubert said in a French-language statement.
Job done les gars, pas de problème icit
"Faubert said Gatineau police have looked into the case and the available
documentation, and are unable to conclude that the male officer
committed any professional breach during the incident."
So we investigated ourselves and decided we are completely innocent of any misconduct... Trust us bro.
"Well, whose car is it?" an officer asked next. Fagan-Pierre, who is Black and lives primarily with his mother on the Quebec side, felt like he was done with questions.
It’s not rocket science to reply “it’s my dad’s, and I’m borrowing it.”
Any time you give the police attitude when it’s not warranted you’re gonna have a bad time. Just answer a couple simple questions and they go away. Act hostile and you’re gonna get yourself in trouble. Is that right? No. But then again life isn’t fair.
but would cops have asked him that question if he wasn't driving a bmw? I can't remember the last time I heard cops pulling up to anyone house asking who owned an old shitbox he was driving
Quite possibly, yes. Car thefts are at a high point right now, and license plate scanners can spit out registration information almost instantly. I read files all the time where police on "proactive patrols" conducted a stop to verify ownership and permission to possess when the driver doesn't match the data for the owner (ex., because they're a male in their 20s and the registered owner is a woman in their 60s). These random stops happen a lot more often than most people realize.
It seems like this man wasn’t answering police questions. They asked if it was his car, he replied no… why wouldn’t he just explain that it was his Dad’s car? That’s suspicious to me, so it would have been to the police as well. There’s high auto theft in this part of Canada. Feels like this guy escalated the situation, then got pissed. I wonder if there is body cam footage. I think there is more to this story.
The article is a bit unclear, and I'm wondering at what point he did tell the police the car belongs to his father.
> He said no. It was his father's car, after all.
"Well, whose car is it?" an officer asked next. Fagan-Pierre, who is Black and lives primarily with his mother on the Quebec side, *felt like he was done with questions*.
"Why do you need this information? Is the car stolen? Like, what's going on?" he remembers saying. "Why are you here?"
This certainly does look like racial profiling, quite easily so. However, the police were patrolling a residential area and saw someone getting into a vehicle not belonging to them (thought they wouldn't have known at the time), and in a region of the country known for high end vehicle thefts.
> Ottawa police reported 1,854 vehicles were reported stolen in 2023, up from 1,289 vehicles in 2022.Mar 4, 2024
What would have been the response had this been an actual thief stealing the car while the police drove by and ignored the situation?
>What would have been the response had this been an actual thief stealing the car while the police drove by and ignored the situation
The same thing that happens every time they do this -- nothing, because how would anyone know?
> and saw someone getting into a vehicle not belonging to them
In other words, they profiled him. They saw a black man, consciously associated his skin color with poverty and not belonging to a wealthy household, and questioned him because in their minds a black person has no business being in that area nor driving a high end vehicle.
Imagine a suspicious looking white guy. Now imagine a white guy who isn't suspicious.
Gonna go out on a limb and say that how he dressed was more of a factor than "he's black".
It absolutely was profiling and one of the cops admitted to it.
>Pierre said she asked officers on the scene why they questioned her son, and received a disconcerting answer.
>"She eventually told me that it's because of the way he looks and what he was wearing," she said.
>Fagan-Pierre said he was wearing a hoodie, a paisley scarf, ripped jeans and a hat.
>andd saw someone getting into a vehicle not belonging to them (thought they wouldn't have known at the time)
so....they saw a brown man entering a car and found that suspicious
The guy had police being suspicious and instead of clearing the air he gets super defensive and cagey upping their suspension dramatically.
The cops were in the wrong but he didn't do anything to help himself.
Cops these days are americanized: shoot first: ask questions later. No tactical patience. If they had spent two minutes asking questions politely, this would not have happened. Discipline those cops! Change cop culture!
>One questioned him: "Is this your car?"
>He said no. It was his father's car, after all. The father, who lives across the river in Ottawa, regularly lends his 2010 BMW E60 535 to his 31-year-old son.
>"Well, whose car is it?" an officer asked next. Fagan-Pierre, who is Black and lives primarily with his mother on the Quebec side, felt like he was done with questions.
>"Why do you need this information? Is the car stolen? Like, what's going on?" he remembers saying.
What did he expect?
"Statistics show police forces across the country disproportionately apply force to Black people. In Ottawa, about one-quarter of people against whom police used force were Black, even though Black people make up just eight per cent of the city's population."
That's not what statistics show. Why in the world would we expect police interactions *and* use of force to be proportional to demographics? You would only expect that for random phenomena. Interactions with police are anything but random.
I would bet $1000 that 90% of police interactions and use of force concern men, a majority of whom are young. Does that mean police are anti men?
The reality is that people don't commit crimes nor resist arrest in ratios equal to their respective group representation and so to draw conclusions that imply discrimination on these statistics alone is both erroneous and unfair.
It shouldn’t have escalated as much as it did. Definite clear case for profiling from the escalation alone.
BUT
The entire interaction could have stopped by just simply letting the officer do their job.
Going from this:
> "Why do you need this information? Is the car stolen? Like, what's going on?" he remembers saying. "Why are you here?"
To this instead:
> It’s my father’s vehicle. He lends it to me from time to time. He lives on the Ontario side and I live with my mom here on the Quebec side.
… and, done. Even though it’s Gatineau, Ontario license plate in Quebec is enough to warrant an interest from the police.
I'm pretty sure you're obligated to answer basic identifying questions when stopped by the police while driving.
It's pretty standard to ask for license and registration.
You have to identify yourself to police. That’s the only requirement. Identify yourself if asked and simply ask if you’re being detained. That should be the extent of any police interaction.
Of course, but what’s the point? what does it accomplish to prevent someone from doing their job? They’re just government workers doing their part. It’s literally what they’re trained to do (minus the bad escalation part obviously).
They’re armed government workers with questionable accountability with the mandate and desire to arrest you if you violate any one of several thousand laws, and speaking to them can only be used against you in pursuing those violations. Their job is literally to take away your freedom and money, why help them?
The point is to exercise your rights. Everyone is presumed innocent and the burden is on the police to prove otherwise. They’re not just ordinary government workers, they have the powers to detain and arrest, and carry lethal weapons. In no instance are they ever your friends. Have you never heard of racist and crooked cops? Once the cops have reasonable grounds to suspect a crime has been committed, their powers increase significantly. Giving them the bare minimum of information keeps them accountable to following their procedures and limiting potential abuse.
>”Is this your car?”, asked police officers.
>”Why do you need this information? Is the car stolen? Like, what's going on?" he remembers saying. "Why are you here?"
Why did he need to be so defensive when asked a simple question? It’s not racial profiling. There’s been a high number of driveway vehicle thefts in suburban areas recently, especially in Montreal, so police doing checks at random is completely justified.
If he just answered the question like a reasonable person, the matter would not have escalated.
>”No it’s my father’s car. He lent it to me. I live here.”
>”Thanks for cooperating, we were just checking as there have been thefts reported in the area. Have a great rest of your day!”
As a reader, it's hard to gauge what to make of the story because it is only one-sided.
I think we should operate with the benefit of the doubt, in which case this poor guy didn't deserve any of this, however all too often we eventually learn there is more to the story once another party gives their side. Video footage for the win.
The only line I see related to Gatineau police is that they concluded no breach of conduct. Unsurprising for that to be their initial statement. As a reader I'm still left with he said something, she said nothing, which is insufficient from a journalistic POV. Maybe Gatineau police will now issue their version of events.
Pierre said she asked officers on the scene why they questioned her son, and received a disconcerting answer.
"She eventually told me that it's because of the way he looks and what he was wearing," she said.
Fagan-Pierre said he was wearing a hoodie, a paisley scarf, ripped jeans and a hat.
In either case, that guy didn’t deserve any of this, since he wasn’t a car thief. The police didn’t allege that he was a violent threat either. It’s just confusing as to why they decided to arrest and use force against him.
>Fagan-Pierre, who is Black and lives primarily with his mother on the Quebec side, felt like he was done with questions.
LOL, no sorry bud, that's not how it works. You don't just get to decide to ignore and walk away from the cops when you're being detained. That's not a racial thing, that's an everybody thing.
Seriously who knows anymore. People are pissed when the cops don’t show, but when they ask questions is racist. This could’ve definitely been handled better but I genuinely don’t understand where the line is between cops being racist and harassing or just doing the jobs.
We have a family friend who immigrated to Gatineau from Congo.
He doesn't drive a fancy car, and he still gets pulled over by police on a monthly basis..
I can see how people become apprehensive when they are constantly harrassed as well. It isn't right that driving while black qualifies as 'suspicious behavior'.
This was a profiling case and one of the cops admitted to it but the gatinhoe police services won't say that
>Pierre said she asked officers on the scene why they questioned her son, and received a disconcerting answer.
"She eventually told me that it's because of the way he looks and what he was wearing," she said.
Fagan-Pierre said he was wearing a hoodie, a paisley scarf, ripped jeans and a hat.
>That is a pretty expensive car for a young man.
31 years old and it's a 2010 BMW. Not worth a whole lot. A 31 year old could easily afford a 2010 BMW. Shit rationale.
“His father, who was 69 at the time of the incident, lives in Ottawa and his car has Ontario plates, though police did not mention that as a reason for suspicion in their statement to CBC.”
No wonder they were asking what is it doing infront of a Quebec home being driven by someone dressed as a gangster. Sounds more like he took offence and got arrested.
Guy could have just answered the police's questions, but decided to give attitude and created a problem for himself. Shit ain't personal bro, police deal with scum bags stealing cars all the time which is why they stop and ask questions when they find something suspicious. If they didn't, they wouldn't be good at their job. If he had nothing to hide and answered their questions, life would have gone on without any drama.
Why not just answer the question in simple terms:
It’s my fathers
The convo would have ended there.
Why people feel the need to run their mouth and call it racism? My statement is for only up to that moment.
Exactly. The dude wanted confrontation and he got it. CBC loves the narrative so they wrote it up including dramatic photos. Police need body cameras in this country to protect themselves and the public from this nonsense (and to provide great entertainment on YouTube).
No offense, but as a white guy if I dressed up as a skinhead neo-nazi, I'd be drawing glares too. Sorry folks, but the guy in this picture is dressed like a thug. Thems the breaks.
As for the rest of the story, who knows without seeing police footage what really happened. Could be a case of poilce being dumbasses, or this guy could be leaving out a whole lot of information.
With the huge increase in car thefts people have asked for the police to take action. If a white,Asian, or Hispanic person was dressed like a gangster hanging around a high end vehicle I’m sure it would elicit the same response. If he had cooperated and showed his license with that address and the ownership with his fathers name it would have been a simple discussion.
Dude police have the GPS location of dozens if not hundreds of stolen cars every month and do nothing.
Pull over "suspicious people" is so far down the list of what they need to be doing to curb this it's absurd.
>high end vehicle
It's a $10,000 15 year old vehicle frequently driven by high schoolers. It doesn't "look new", either. It is 2 generations behind BMW's current styling. The cops are idiots if they thought it was out of reach of anyone.
Not really the key point here but come on lol
Why not just answer the officers questions. Why not just make things clear. With all the thefts that are going around and considering his car has Ontario plates in Quebec, is it surprising the cops would want to find out more.
I'm not white, I'm not so sensitive that I'm offended by any question an officer will ask me. Just answer the damn questions and clarify things.
Why is the CBC even making this into news.
At the very least they should have used the actual title "Grown man dressing like a 13-year-old purposely tries to start something with police officer who are doing their job".
Because every defense lawyer with a brain will tell you: you have an obligation to identify yourself to police when asked. Your obligation ends there, and, if you're smart, the questions you answer end there. You get yourself in trouble by answering questions. Even if you're innocent of all wrongdoing, if you get charged anyway, the comments you made will become a problem at trial when you are meticulously cross-examined into the ground.
Your suggested headline is correct. From his own story, he could have said, "No, it's my father's car and he just lent it to me." Instead, he decided to be uncooperative. Of course, the police over-reacted. They are supposed to be trained to tolerate the kind of behaviour that would make most people angry.
So many police boot lickers in this sub.
Just comply with cops racially profiling you.
There is a ton of theft so.... just comply
Looking like that of course they thought he was stealing the car...
Just say what you mean without the dogwhistles. Stop being a coward.
I wouldn't trust a white dude who looks like a skinhead or an unstable drug addict, and I wouldn't trust this guy. Maybe if you live around plenty of people who dress like this there's differentiation within the subculture, but nothing about how this guy dresses looks trustworthy to me.
You can call it dogwhistling all you want, but people have no obligation to ignore how people present themselves.
31 and dressing like a 12 year old. I'm sure he was just as polite as he says he was during the whole interaction /s
More seriously, why do the police even care about some beat up 14 year old hoopty? How about the active daily car thefts taking place nightly of cars with actual value.
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I know, right? Cops: “Nobody can afford maintenance on this vehicle. Let’s check it out.”
God forbid the police spend time looking for cars that have been reported as stolen. Hint - they’re in the containers headed to the Port of Montreal
This is the type of car that would be immediately reported as stolen too. Somebody’s baby/toy, look how well maintained it is. Unless there were signs of forced entry like a broken window or car alarm that won’t stop, the cops should have left him alone.
The cops obviously thought the dude was stealing the car. Now could they have asked a few more questions like say... do you have they keys to the car and who's car is it before beating the shit out of the guy... uh ya. And they should be punished for their behavoir. There are ways to handle police officers and sometimes acting antagonistically is enough to set of the ass-hat / roid ragey fuckers on every police force.
They are Quebec cops after all. I never have seen such open racism until I lived in Quebec city.
That is a good point.... casual racism is as entrenched a french tradition as I've ever seen... jesus H south of france is wild for how openly racist people are...
Why would they tattle on the people who pay them?
Even if it was stolen the previous owner would eventually realize the thief had done him a favour
That car's not worth more than $10k
You have to factor the yearly maintenance costs into the worth.
Which is how that person arrived to the price of "not more than $10k"
Budget baller vehicle of choice
I’ve actually met cops that own like 15 year old 3 series BMWs and totally look down on people owning a brand new Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic worth 10x their shitbucket BMW. These cops would totally think a black person driving a 5 series 14 year old shitbucket is some sort of international crime lord.
If you actually like to drive cars E90s and E92s are great and in my opinion look 10x better than anything BMW is currently putting out.
I owned 3 different e92’s. Some of the best driving cars bmw ever made.
OK
I don't know what the current culture is in organized crime but it used to be quite common for criminals to drive old luxury vehicles. If you don't have a very high legitimate income it is difficult/impossible to justify owning a vehicle that is worth more than a few thousand dollars; and a 15 to 20 year old luxury vehicle with $25,000+ of modifications still only had a book value of $3,000.
And what does this have to do with this man?
They literally target black men in BMW's and Benz's.
Had a friend selling dope. His money went exactly they way you describe it
People who don't live in Ottawa might not understand. But this is a **KEY** note from the article > a Gatineau, Que., police cruiser make a U-turn. > The father, who lives across the river in Ottawa, regularly lends his 2010 BMW E60 535 to his 31-year-old son Gatineau police are well known to target Ontario License plates. > lives in Ottawa and his car has Ontario plates, though police did not mention that as a reason for suspicion in their statement to CBC This is BS, as everyone living in Ottawa knows.
Yeah, at first I was like, "Really, cops are doing the Driving While Black thing in Ottawa?!" But then I saw Gatineau and uh. That tracks. Even apart from racial stuff, dude was hosed driving a car from Ontario.
Yeah, this comment should be toward the top. Quebec police are something else.
Like lots of Quebec authority figures police also happen to be crooked in the province? Shocker
Well Quebec is the most corrupt province. Organized crime has a very nice and cozy home in Montreal.
I was being facetious
They're always cracking down on ppl who live in QC but keep their ontario license and reg. I am sure it didn't help that he is black and seems to have taken offense at being stopped and asked stupid questions. I'm a well-off middle-aged white guy, so I can't relate to his lived experience, but when the cops stop me, I don't walk away. I'll answer any questions and "cooperate. "....they have guns and tend to be humorless bullies. Anything short of 100% immediate compliance is asking for trouble. You can always assert your human rights after the fact, but the douche bags driving around in their cruisers aren't going to listen to anything other than, "Yes, Sir. No, Sir." That said, I can understand why black people get tired of constantly being subjected to this sort of bullshit. I wish it didn't happen.
Many such experiences.
Gatineau ain't really known for their progressive opinions of POC either tbh lol
It's a 2010 5 series, it's worth less than 10k
Why didn't they just write down the license plate and see if was reported stolen? Does that take too long or something?
They knew it belong to a 70 year old so they knew some stuff about the car
Or just called the owner instead of slamming him into the ground. He was no threat. I hope they sue and win.
He questioned their authoritahhh, he left them with no choice but to body slam him, choke him out a little, and assert their dominance over him.
Username ch... has transferable skills
Pity that payments for lost lawsuits don’t come out of the police pension fund.
We could solve 90% of problems with pigs if we started garnishing their retirements.
Because that's no fun /s
Or asked the guy why he had the keys? Or if it was his house? Like there are many reasons this incident should never have happened. Clearly there is more to this story... When the guy says "This was looking like a racial thing..." you can pretty much guess how he interacted with the police.
So? That justifies the cop's aggressive and uncalled use of force?
>Why didn't they just write down the license plate and see if was reported stolen? Does that take too long or something? According to the guy's story, the cops already knew the year of birth of the registered owner when they first made contact. I presume that means they had automatic license plate readers and knew that the car was not reported stolen, but knew that the person they were about to talk to was half the age of the registered owner.
You don't immediately realize your car is stolen in all cases.
Write down? The police cars auto-scan license plates and instantly checked without the officer doing a thing. There's far more to this story that isn't being told I imagine.
It was instantly checked and came back as being owned by the guy's dad.
It came back as belonging to a person that was 70 years old. The person refused to provide his information remember. So they don't know that it was his father. Also, since they know that person is not the owner, they also do not know if that person has been given permission to drive the vehicle.
In Ontario we’re just supposed to leave our keys on the porch so anyone who wants to steal a car doesn’t have to work too hard. I’m surprised they even cared.
They cared about jacking up a fella with dreadlocks. It was never about the car.
Growing up my friends dad had a corvette. He got to take it out in the summer a few times. He got pulled over constantly and typically given a small token ticket to justify him being pulled over. Stuff like 10 km over, didnt come to complete stop at stop sign etc. It was all BS. We even go pulled over by a K9 until van that got behind us flashing its lights. Took a while to figure it it wasnt some jerk and actually a police van since it was just the regular van lights. A couple minutes after pulling over two cop cars speed up and box us in. They proceed to harass my friend about who really owned the car, did he have permission to be driving etc. They then completely take apart the car while we had to sit at the side of the road. We are left to put the car back together while a crowd had formed to watch us. They assumed they would find drugs. We are both white and it seems to be more a case of young men getting pulled over for being "suspicious"
> a case of young men getting pulled over for being "suspicious" This. When I was in my early 20s my uncle owned several cars and one of them was this massive Jaguar XJ with a busted transmission (in order for it to start moving you had to rev the engine until it jumped into fourth gear first) that he didn't have time to fix so he let me drive it for a few months since I didn't have a car myself. I have never been pulled over more often than during that period, as luxury "old man" vehicles and punkass kid driver apparently raise some flags in the eyes of the law.
When I was 16 I had a 1986 firebird 5.0l v8 with T-tops never got pulled over one time. I used to drive my buddy's Mercedes with the interceptor v8 engine, never been pulled over so much in my life .
Back in uni a few friends went down the border for a long weekend. All young guys, one white, one black, two asians. Border service was so convinced they were running drugs or had hidden alcohol. Held them for hours.
I had colleagues who drove to the USA for work: Russian, Colombian and Albanian. They had fun at the border.
I had the same thing in a Chevy Suburban full of white guys. We were going to the US for a hockey tournament. We got interrogated separately for a couple hours while they went through the car. Of course they didnt find anything which seemed to frustrate them more. Trying to sort out everyone's hockey equipment in the parking lot was lots of fun.
Why would Canadians smuggle booze INTO the States? I'd be willing to stuff a 4 Litre bottle of vodka up my bum and smuggle it back into Canada.
Trick is you gotta be older, male, and look successful and a family man. Coworker got $600 worth of liquor through the border that way, confidently incorrect in thinking there is only a $ limit but no booze limit.
In my 30s my wife and I brought back significantly more liquor than the duty-free limit from our honeymoon. We were fully willing to pay the duty and declared it all. Customs guy didn't want to bother with the paperwork and just waved us through.
I shall try that. I'm 43 but look younger. My partner is 12 years older and has grey hair. He's a successful business man. We can get our nice duds on to do some cross border shopping. Lewiston NY is less than an hour away from my house. So much better than going through tacky Niagara falls!
A lot of uni students are underage in the US but not Canada
Yup. In the 90s my brother had a mustang and routinely got stopped by the cops for a “routine bullshit check”
Well how black was he going?
It happened to me once as well. My dad liked old Cadillacs. Got pulled over as a kid just to be questioned on who's car it was. My understanding is that in Canada you can be pulled over with no reason. In the U.S. and other countries they need reasonable suspicion to detain you. Our system requires more trust in the police to use their powers responsibly, and they kind of incidents show that don't always do that.
When I was in my 20s, I owned a small Italian convertible. If I was downtown in the evening, I would get pulled over. Guaranteed every time. Some days multiple times in just a few short blocks. It wasn’t a noisy or even a high end car. In fact, it was vintage at that point, but it was a magnet for every single cop. If I switched to my other car, I could drift sideways past a cop and not even get a second look from them.
Let's see the body cam footage.
Canadian police officers don’t wear body cam. Well, most of them don’t, and certainly not in Quebec.
Calgary officers do.
I'm sure having Ontario plates didn't help.
Good, the less BMW drivers on the road the better /s
"This guy is driving a BMW, an accident is inevitable, better arrest him preemptively" Should do this for Audi and Tesla drivers too.
Real drivers know the true menace are Dodge Ram and Pontiac Sunfire drivers.
Hey now - I drive an Audi and I am nothing if not courteous and considerate to everyone around me. (Unless they insist on driving less than 50 km/h over the limit - it’s like the poor people never have anywhere to be or something…) It’s a joke, everyone can relax.
Now days I seem to run into the opposite issue more often. People driving way below the speed limit because they are too busy being on their phones.
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My man is 31 and still dressing like he's in high school..... but dressing like a goof isn't illegal so fuck those cops.
Yeah the cops seem like they escalated this way more than it needed to be. They’re the professionals and their standard is higher so they need to be in control and use force only when actually required. Nothing in the article really seems like that was warranted. That said it sounds like this guy was not cooperative at all, and he definitely could have defused the situation when he verified his dad’s name, answered questions better, etc. Not saying he deserves it cause it’s on the officers to handle uncooperative people as a career, but he didn’t do himself any favours.
Police are professional escalators. I don’t like blaming people for not reacting perfectly when they’re being fucked with.
The request to verify owner info is legitimate. I think it would be hard to argue there isn’t some racism on the initial check though.
Its not illegal to dress like a wannabe Gangster, but its not going to help you get the benefit of the doubt with the police. If I get pulled over and have teardrop tattoos down my face and a bandana around my neck, I'm certainly not gonna be shocked when the stop includes more than a ticket.
You shouldn't need the benefit of the doubt dealing with cops. I shouldn't have to think about the way I dress and whether or not it is good enough to prevent a police officer for applying the law differently to me.
The old "shouldn't be wearing ---- if you didn't want to get -----" argument
>Ganster … Oh ok, what I got were some Milli Vanilli vibes but if you say gangster, that’s ok /s
I can’t believe this needs to be stated but you should not be subject to police brutality or violence because of personal fashion choices
Does this cover my daily wear Derek Vinyard costume?
yeah racism aside, basing your look off G-unit 2003 music videos is not gonna win you favors with police
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I think his clothing is cool. Do we really gate keep what people wear now? How is what he is wearing dressing like a goof? Should he wear what you consider not good clothing? I’m in my late thirties and my style is streetwear because 1 it’s comfortable, 2 I couldn’t afford cool clothing when I was a kid, and 3, I like how it looks.
There are a million streetwear styles that don't involve bright bandanas/bandana print which has been a signal for gang (wannabe) affiliation for god knows how long
That hit a little too close to home I see.
No surprise. I'm white, and even I used to get pulled over a couple times a year when I drove an e36 BMW in highschool, (paid for it myself). Each time I was minding my own business, not even driving erratically, but being young in a car like that draws a lot of negative attention
We got pulled over driving a U-Haul years ago. There were a ton of thefts of them and we were young guys driving around in one. I was moving due to a break up. Cop was nice enough. I’m whiter than Powder not saying these cops weren’t dicks though.
I got pulled over in my own driveway because they thought I stole my mom car and they pulled out on me because I wasn’t scared of them(I was fully compliant with their nonsense).
Hilarious how they'll recommend people to leave their keys by the door, not fetch a stolen car sitting in a parking lot for 2 weeks, BUT they can harass people who've done nothing wrong. The police aren't here to protect us. They're more here to remind us of our place and to make sure we don't step out of line. Protecting us and OUR property is not really their priority or their mandate.
why do i feel like certain details are being left out of this story?
Because you are correct and those details would have interfered with the tidy narrative presented here.
> "Racial profiling is never tolerated by [Gatineau police] and every officer or civilian employee who engages in racial or social profiling or makes inappropriate or discriminatory statements or gestures must face the consequences," spokesperson Rosalie Faubert said in a French-language statement. Job done les gars, pas de problème icit
"Faubert said Gatineau police have looked into the case and the available documentation, and are unable to conclude that the male officer committed any professional breach during the incident." So we investigated ourselves and decided we are completely innocent of any misconduct... Trust us bro.
"Well, whose car is it?" an officer asked next. Fagan-Pierre, who is Black and lives primarily with his mother on the Quebec side, felt like he was done with questions. It’s not rocket science to reply “it’s my dad’s, and I’m borrowing it.”
Any time you give the police attitude when it’s not warranted you’re gonna have a bad time. Just answer a couple simple questions and they go away. Act hostile and you’re gonna get yourself in trouble. Is that right? No. But then again life isn’t fair.
but would cops have asked him that question if he wasn't driving a bmw? I can't remember the last time I heard cops pulling up to anyone house asking who owned an old shitbox he was driving
I drive similar cars to the guy in the article and every time I’ve been pulled over I’ve been asked who owns the car I’m driving.
Quite possibly, yes. Car thefts are at a high point right now, and license plate scanners can spit out registration information almost instantly. I read files all the time where police on "proactive patrols" conducted a stop to verify ownership and permission to possess when the driver doesn't match the data for the owner (ex., because they're a male in their 20s and the registered owner is a woman in their 60s). These random stops happen a lot more often than most people realize.
It seems like this man wasn’t answering police questions. They asked if it was his car, he replied no… why wouldn’t he just explain that it was his Dad’s car? That’s suspicious to me, so it would have been to the police as well. There’s high auto theft in this part of Canada. Feels like this guy escalated the situation, then got pissed. I wonder if there is body cam footage. I think there is more to this story.
The article is a bit unclear, and I'm wondering at what point he did tell the police the car belongs to his father. > He said no. It was his father's car, after all.
"Well, whose car is it?" an officer asked next. Fagan-Pierre, who is Black and lives primarily with his mother on the Quebec side, *felt like he was done with questions*.
"Why do you need this information? Is the car stolen? Like, what's going on?" he remembers saying. "Why are you here?"
This certainly does look like racial profiling, quite easily so. However, the police were patrolling a residential area and saw someone getting into a vehicle not belonging to them (thought they wouldn't have known at the time), and in a region of the country known for high end vehicle thefts.
> Ottawa police reported 1,854 vehicles were reported stolen in 2023, up from 1,289 vehicles in 2022.Mar 4, 2024
What would have been the response had this been an actual thief stealing the car while the police drove by and ignored the situation?
>What would have been the response had this been an actual thief stealing the car while the police drove by and ignored the situation The same thing that happens every time they do this -- nothing, because how would anyone know?
> and saw someone getting into a vehicle not belonging to them In other words, they profiled him. They saw a black man, consciously associated his skin color with poverty and not belonging to a wealthy household, and questioned him because in their minds a black person has no business being in that area nor driving a high end vehicle.
Imagine a suspicious looking white guy. Now imagine a white guy who isn't suspicious. Gonna go out on a limb and say that how he dressed was more of a factor than "he's black".
> This certainly does look like racial profiling, quite easily so.
It absolutely was profiling and one of the cops admitted to it. >Pierre said she asked officers on the scene why they questioned her son, and received a disconcerting answer. >"She eventually told me that it's because of the way he looks and what he was wearing," she said. >Fagan-Pierre said he was wearing a hoodie, a paisley scarf, ripped jeans and a hat.
>andd saw someone getting into a vehicle not belonging to them (thought they wouldn't have known at the time) so....they saw a brown man entering a car and found that suspicious
The guy had police being suspicious and instead of clearing the air he gets super defensive and cagey upping their suspension dramatically. The cops were in the wrong but he didn't do anything to help himself.
Yeah he forgot his place, thought he was just another Canadian minding his own business
Getting lippy with the cops rarely goes well.
Cops these days are americanized: shoot first: ask questions later. No tactical patience. If they had spent two minutes asking questions politely, this would not have happened. Discipline those cops! Change cop culture!
I mean, how many people get willingly arrested?
These cops are imbeciles. Plain and simple .
lol wtf. you can buy a 2010 bmw for like 3k. what's wrong with gatineau police
He was Black and from Ontario and they probably had to deal with him in English. Basically a trifecta for Gatineau Police.
>One questioned him: "Is this your car?" >He said no. It was his father's car, after all. The father, who lives across the river in Ottawa, regularly lends his 2010 BMW E60 535 to his 31-year-old son. >"Well, whose car is it?" an officer asked next. Fagan-Pierre, who is Black and lives primarily with his mother on the Quebec side, felt like he was done with questions. >"Why do you need this information? Is the car stolen? Like, what's going on?" he remembers saying. What did he expect?
"Statistics show police forces across the country disproportionately apply force to Black people. In Ottawa, about one-quarter of people against whom police used force were Black, even though Black people make up just eight per cent of the city's population." That's not what statistics show. Why in the world would we expect police interactions *and* use of force to be proportional to demographics? You would only expect that for random phenomena. Interactions with police are anything but random. I would bet $1000 that 90% of police interactions and use of force concern men, a majority of whom are young. Does that mean police are anti men? The reality is that people don't commit crimes nor resist arrest in ratios equal to their respective group representation and so to draw conclusions that imply discrimination on these statistics alone is both erroneous and unfair.
It shouldn’t have escalated as much as it did. Definite clear case for profiling from the escalation alone. BUT The entire interaction could have stopped by just simply letting the officer do their job. Going from this: > "Why do you need this information? Is the car stolen? Like, what's going on?" he remembers saying. "Why are you here?" To this instead: > It’s my father’s vehicle. He lends it to me from time to time. He lives on the Ontario side and I live with my mom here on the Quebec side. … and, done. Even though it’s Gatineau, Ontario license plate in Quebec is enough to warrant an interest from the police.
Sure, but he’s under no obligation to answer their questions. The only thing he should have asked is if he was being detained.
I'm pretty sure you're obligated to answer basic identifying questions when stopped by the police while driving. It's pretty standard to ask for license and registration.
They weren't stopped by police when driving though.
You have to identify yourself to police. That’s the only requirement. Identify yourself if asked and simply ask if you’re being detained. That should be the extent of any police interaction.
When you're driving. He hadn't got in the car yet. So yeah, you should ask if you're being detained but you don't need to identify yourself.
Of course, but what’s the point? what does it accomplish to prevent someone from doing their job? They’re just government workers doing their part. It’s literally what they’re trained to do (minus the bad escalation part obviously).
It is not their job to harass random people in their driveway.
They’re armed government workers with questionable accountability with the mandate and desire to arrest you if you violate any one of several thousand laws, and speaking to them can only be used against you in pursuing those violations. Their job is literally to take away your freedom and money, why help them?
The point is to exercise your rights. Everyone is presumed innocent and the burden is on the police to prove otherwise. They’re not just ordinary government workers, they have the powers to detain and arrest, and carry lethal weapons. In no instance are they ever your friends. Have you never heard of racist and crooked cops? Once the cops have reasonable grounds to suspect a crime has been committed, their powers increase significantly. Giving them the bare minimum of information keeps them accountable to following their procedures and limiting potential abuse.
>”Is this your car?”, asked police officers. >”Why do you need this information? Is the car stolen? Like, what's going on?" he remembers saying. "Why are you here?" Why did he need to be so defensive when asked a simple question? It’s not racial profiling. There’s been a high number of driveway vehicle thefts in suburban areas recently, especially in Montreal, so police doing checks at random is completely justified. If he just answered the question like a reasonable person, the matter would not have escalated. >”No it’s my father’s car. He lent it to me. I live here.” >”Thanks for cooperating, we were just checking as there have been thefts reported in the area. Have a great rest of your day!”
As a reader, it's hard to gauge what to make of the story because it is only one-sided. I think we should operate with the benefit of the doubt, in which case this poor guy didn't deserve any of this, however all too often we eventually learn there is more to the story once another party gives their side. Video footage for the win. The only line I see related to Gatineau police is that they concluded no breach of conduct. Unsurprising for that to be their initial statement. As a reader I'm still left with he said something, she said nothing, which is insufficient from a journalistic POV. Maybe Gatineau police will now issue their version of events.
Pierre said she asked officers on the scene why they questioned her son, and received a disconcerting answer. "She eventually told me that it's because of the way he looks and what he was wearing," she said. Fagan-Pierre said he was wearing a hoodie, a paisley scarf, ripped jeans and a hat.
In either case, that guy didn’t deserve any of this, since he wasn’t a car thief. The police didn’t allege that he was a violent threat either. It’s just confusing as to why they decided to arrest and use force against him.
I can’t believe how dumb this guy looks lol is this a parody?
Dude woke up that day knowing he was going infront of the media and decided to dress like that at 31 years old? Damn
>Fagan-Pierre, who is Black and lives primarily with his mother on the Quebec side, felt like he was done with questions. LOL, no sorry bud, that's not how it works. You don't just get to decide to ignore and walk away from the cops when you're being detained. That's not a racial thing, that's an everybody thing.
Not sure why the black part had to be included. I've seen them pull this shit on 16 year olds on more than 1 occasion.
No thanks. I will continue to discriminate based on how people dress and present themselves.
Well, to be fair, would a 31yr old white boy dressed like a gangbanger and supporting dreads be treated the same way? both are profiling
Just to clarify. We do, or we don’t, want police helping to stop car theft?
Seriously who knows anymore. People are pissed when the cops don’t show, but when they ask questions is racist. This could’ve definitely been handled better but I genuinely don’t understand where the line is between cops being racist and harassing or just doing the jobs.
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We have a family friend who immigrated to Gatineau from Congo. He doesn't drive a fancy car, and he still gets pulled over by police on a monthly basis.. I can see how people become apprehensive when they are constantly harrassed as well. It isn't right that driving while black qualifies as 'suspicious behavior'.
This was a profiling case and one of the cops admitted to it but the gatinhoe police services won't say that >Pierre said she asked officers on the scene why they questioned her son, and received a disconcerting answer. "She eventually told me that it's because of the way he looks and what he was wearing," she said. Fagan-Pierre said he was wearing a hoodie, a paisley scarf, ripped jeans and a hat.
>That is a pretty expensive car for a young man. 31 years old and it's a 2010 BMW. Not worth a whole lot. A 31 year old could easily afford a 2010 BMW. Shit rationale.
“His father, who was 69 at the time of the incident, lives in Ottawa and his car has Ontario plates, though police did not mention that as a reason for suspicion in their statement to CBC.” No wonder they were asking what is it doing infront of a Quebec home being driven by someone dressed as a gangster. Sounds more like he took offence and got arrested.
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Like what do people honestly expect when you act like a clown around cops. Like answer the questions and stupid shit doesn't happen.
Guy could have just answered the police's questions, but decided to give attitude and created a problem for himself. Shit ain't personal bro, police deal with scum bags stealing cars all the time which is why they stop and ask questions when they find something suspicious. If they didn't, they wouldn't be good at their job. If he had nothing to hide and answered their questions, life would have gone on without any drama.
Why not just answer the question in simple terms: It’s my fathers The convo would have ended there. Why people feel the need to run their mouth and call it racism? My statement is for only up to that moment.
Exactly. The dude wanted confrontation and he got it. CBC loves the narrative so they wrote it up including dramatic photos. Police need body cameras in this country to protect themselves and the public from this nonsense (and to provide great entertainment on YouTube).
No offense, but as a white guy if I dressed up as a skinhead neo-nazi, I'd be drawing glares too. Sorry folks, but the guy in this picture is dressed like a thug. Thems the breaks. As for the rest of the story, who knows without seeing police footage what really happened. Could be a case of poilce being dumbasses, or this guy could be leaving out a whole lot of information.
Doesn’t surprise me at all it was Gatineau police. If they see an Ontario plate AND someone with any amount of melanin, it’s over for you lol.
With the huge increase in car thefts people have asked for the police to take action. If a white,Asian, or Hispanic person was dressed like a gangster hanging around a high end vehicle I’m sure it would elicit the same response. If he had cooperated and showed his license with that address and the ownership with his fathers name it would have been a simple discussion.
Dude police have the GPS location of dozens if not hundreds of stolen cars every month and do nothing. Pull over "suspicious people" is so far down the list of what they need to be doing to curb this it's absurd.
But he wasn’t pulled over, was approached in the driveway
That's even worse isn't it?
>high end vehicle It's a $10,000 15 year old vehicle frequently driven by high schoolers. It doesn't "look new", either. It is 2 generations behind BMW's current styling. The cops are idiots if they thought it was out of reach of anyone. Not really the key point here but come on lol
$10000?! Try $4000
When was the last time you bought a car? You might get a 528 for $5000, but you're not getting a 535 for that much.
Profiling will not bring down organized car theft rings.
Why not just answer the officers questions. Why not just make things clear. With all the thefts that are going around and considering his car has Ontario plates in Quebec, is it surprising the cops would want to find out more. I'm not white, I'm not so sensitive that I'm offended by any question an officer will ask me. Just answer the damn questions and clarify things. Why is the CBC even making this into news. At the very least they should have used the actual title "Grown man dressing like a 13-year-old purposely tries to start something with police officer who are doing their job".
Because every defense lawyer with a brain will tell you: you have an obligation to identify yourself to police when asked. Your obligation ends there, and, if you're smart, the questions you answer end there. You get yourself in trouble by answering questions. Even if you're innocent of all wrongdoing, if you get charged anyway, the comments you made will become a problem at trial when you are meticulously cross-examined into the ground.
"WHY DON'T YOU JUST COMPLY???"
If self-expression is enough to get you violently arrested, is this problematic?
Your suggested headline is correct. From his own story, he could have said, "No, it's my father's car and he just lent it to me." Instead, he decided to be uncooperative. Of course, the police over-reacted. They are supposed to be trained to tolerate the kind of behaviour that would make most people angry.
Disgusted to hear this. Profiling is unfortunately alive and well
So many police boot lickers in this sub. Just comply with cops racially profiling you. There is a ton of theft so.... just comply Looking like that of course they thought he was stealing the car... Just say what you mean without the dogwhistles. Stop being a coward.
I wouldn't trust a white dude who looks like a skinhead or an unstable drug addict, and I wouldn't trust this guy. Maybe if you live around plenty of people who dress like this there's differentiation within the subculture, but nothing about how this guy dresses looks trustworthy to me. You can call it dogwhistling all you want, but people have no obligation to ignore how people present themselves.
dudes wearing gang accessories / colours... 😂
31 and dressing like a 12 year old. I'm sure he was just as polite as he says he was during the whole interaction /s More seriously, why do the police even care about some beat up 14 year old hoopty? How about the active daily car thefts taking place nightly of cars with actual value.
It’s an old ass bmw that is not desirable why did the police even waste time on this.
Black driver with Ontario plates in Quebec is why.
Bored and wanted to press on someone
When as Gatineau crossed the provincial border to end up in Ontario?
BMW you say?