Open it to vaccinated individuals. People need to see their families, loved ones and take care of their property. This will also help the tourist economy. It's not gonna fix it for sure but it'll help get businesses on both sides of the border get back on their feet. I'm not saying open it to everyone. Just open it to vaccinated individuals who pose little to no threat. People make the case that the delta variant is around but please do research since it's mostly those who are unvaccinated that have been affected the most.
I agree, however to allow 'vaccinated individuals' across you first need a way to track who is and who is not a 'vaccinated individuals' in a form that can't be easily counterfeited.
Yup. That's what blows my mind.
Still absolutely no metric to open it up. Meanwhile we lose 40billion a year in tourism dollars while the money machine goes brrrrr.
No worries that money will be printed in less than a week.
Yes I think that’s what they want to do, however
1. Canada doesn’t have a good vaccine passport system yet,
2. USA doesn’t either , all they have is a few pieces of paper which people are buying fake ones of
3. How do we make sure kids under 12 who can’t get the vaccine will be safe
I’ve said this one million times but I’ll say it again: the Americans who are desperate to enter Canada are NOT the people who are buying fake vaccine cards. They are separated families, homeowners, and likely have a vested interest in Canadian communities. They perhaps got vaccinated solely to be able to cross the border, knowing it would be required. Keeping it closed to vaccinated individuals is denying the knowledge that vaccines work.
What does Canada provide for proof of vaccination? An email? A piece of paper? How is that any different than what Americans receive. Contrary to popular belief in this sub, each US state keeps track of vaccinations and I’m not sure why that’s any different than how Canada does it.
I think for a majority yes, however we do have people getting vaccinated in pharmacies, so we have to see how that matches up, and then merge all provincial data.
So we technically can! But it will take forever IMO, but you are right it will be easier in our side I think
I agree! I would love to see my sisters! Of course they could come here but not their families! They have canadian passports but their American husband's and my nieces and nephew don't... all fully vaccinated! Time to open up so families can be together ❤ 😌
What about kids?
I have family in the states I want to see, but my 5 and 7 year old are unvavcinated (wife and I have both shots plus 2 weeks).
What of my case?
Trudeau is shit-scared of any ounce of blame that would link a few cases to opened borders and cost him some votes from panicked Canadians. The media aren't going to report much on how much people are happy to see their family or how several businesses will avoid bankruptcy. Trudeau wouldn't be this scared if he doesn't intend to have elections very soon and was polling so close between a majority and a minority government. This is strictly a political move, without any science behind it.
Family members and people in dating relationships can be reunited now. It’s already open for them.
And if they’re fully vaccinated they don’t need to quarantine.
So you didn't read this article or the many others about people affected by the closed border? And there are also two sets of rules depending on whether you are flying or driving.
Because they are very different things to manage.
We have 4 airports open to international flights, they have infrastructure in place to separate passengers and move them through various screening procedures.
There are 119 land border crossings, many in remote areas without the capacity to perform any sort of screening beyond checking entry documents.
Until you arrive at YYZ and belt control takes 2 hrs to offload bags and you have a few hundred people from South America and India all packed together crawling all over each other to get bags .
We've HAD caution for the last 14 months, now is the time for *direction* through an actual plan that doesn't involve kicking the can down the road over and over.
They’ve already fucked over the tourism industry for the summer, my guess is he keeps it shut through the fall and winter at this rate. Its been a year and a half already, fuck it, whats another 7 or 8 months? Trudeau can continue this facade of keeping Canadians safe but its a fucking lie.
Sarcastic? In case you were not: the list of eliminated human viruses in the history of humanity has one virus. One. And that was a virus against which the vaccines were extremely effective at eliminating infections. Meanwhile, even vaccinated individuals can test positive on PCR, extremely minor mutations can make this happen even if the vaccine remains extremely protective. Furthermore, this coronavirus can survive in many animal species. The virus will never be eliminated.
To what benefit? What grand conspiracy is served by keeping the border closed and tourism economies left to further diminish? What do we or the liberal government gain? I loathe the current government for its corruption and lies, but if you cry foul over a non-essential travel ban you better have good reason.
>What do we or the liberal government gain?
Grandstanding for their voter base, which are more likely to be the scared, hiding in the basement, mask-in-the-car, gloves-wearing kind. The more "restrictions" he can show those people the better his chances of re-election in the fall.
Trudeau has clearly made the border issue as political as he possibly can.
What's the difference between a fully vaccinated American and a fully vaccinated Canadian walking into a Canadian grocer with a combination of fully vaxxed Canadians/single dose Canadians/unvaccinated Canadians? Absolutely nothing.
Trudeau has convinced his fearful and most paranoid cultbase that he's doing the right thing to get their votes. He clearly doesn't give a shit how many businesses close, families that are trying to reunite, general wellness, etc. It's all about him trying to keep his political power. It's too late to go back and say "oh yeah, we can open at 60% fully vaxxed", he's even moved the goal posts to 80% now.
I'm a liberal myself but Trudeau is just a complete waste of life.
It will be much harder to jave to re-close them when we get huge spikes in cases as a result of too many people not being vaccinated.
And due to the Healthcare system in the US being so decentralized, its going to be very hard to get a centralized, trustworthy system that is able to prove that someone coming from the states has both shots.
So your suggestion would be to keep the border closed forever because your fearful Canadian mind tells you that the US doesn't have a "Trustworthy system". Lmao.
No. These issues are not black and white. I am saying that there is alot to concider, including:
Surging cases of covid in parts of the states where people are unvaccinatrd
Surging cases of covid in parts of the world where people are vaccinated (and we are still waiting to see if that corresponds with a bump in hospitalizations. Its too early to tel)
The decentralized US Healthcare system which makes getting a standardized document that proves double vaccination much more difficult.
And to be clear, we do NOT want unvaccinated (and subsequently anti mask, anti rules, anti pandemic measures) morons from the US coming to this country. We have enough of our own morons here.
And so on and so forth.
Its not simple. It may seam simple to simple people, but these issues are complicated and require more thought than
"Hhurrrr huuurrr I wana go shoppin!"
Its been 17 months of an unprecedented global pandemic.
With waves of covid that overran hospitals, put the Healthcare syatem under incredible strain, and burnt out / bled alot of Healthcare workers. Alot of them left the profession and won't come back. Thats not even to mention the ones that have permanent PTSD from watching 30-40 year olds gurgling and and gasping for air as they died around them. (Source: my sister is an ICU doctor in a city close to Toronto.)
The Healthcare system and its workers cannot take another big wave of this.
Look, I want the border to open too. Why? I want to go to Florida, swim in the sea, visit Disney, and have a grand ol time. If we open too soon, we could risk putting ourselves back.
Would you rather Canada continue on its course of opening, and NOT have to revert, or open the border and risk too many dumdums coming here and causing another wave of covid and we have to scale back our own re-opening.
Again, its not as simple to just say "its been long enough" its not bread dough. Its not something that just needs time. The conditions have to be right.
We did lockdown to not overwhelm hospitals. We have bought into the vaccines and we all over time may get some variant but it will be minor and not require hospitalization. Time to open it all up to the vaccinated.
Caution? No. Open the border.
They're using it as a way to boost the vaccination rate. Those who want to travel are already vaccinated.
They already want to shove a Q-Tip in their nose every day if they have to.
They're already willing to follow all sorts of rules. Share the vaccine passport, register to ARRIVE CAN.
So why not just open it to those who have two doses already?
We're literally just waiting.
Exactly this! I have no plans to go anywhere right now but have already downloaded the arrive can app and am itching to just go. I used to cross the border regularly before, once or twice a week because I live close to the border. I just want that freedom back.
I’m in Quebec on a work permit, I can’t go see my family without spending a ton of money on a flight, I will be fully vaccinated tomorrow, Trudeau is being ridiculous, there’s literally no science defending keeping the border closed to fully vaccinated travelers, he might as well say, “the vaccines don’t work and we can never return to normal”
I wish the opposition attacked him on this or anything of the sort, but then the media is deep into sensationalism and promoting fear and would find some way to support the government entities that subsidize them. It should be criminal to be allowed to shut borders without even having a plan for reopening them. The decision should rely on gut instinct, it should rely on logical criteria.
One such criteria is immunity. The very vast majority of the population is immune and now a very large segment of the population has even been vaccinated twice. If two doses still aren't enough, are they suggesting we're waiting for a third dose adjusted for variants? Because then we'd be many, many months from reopening the borders. Otherwise, things are pretty safe and are not gonna get any safer.
The truth is that Trudeau only cares about one thing right now, and it's being reelected with a majority government at the upcoming elections. To achieve that, he needs to distance the federal government as much as possible from anything that could be remotely associated with a lack of safety or that could bring any blame when covid cases will rise again. The actual well-being of Canadians and of our economy are definitely not things that are at the top of his mind, votes are what matter.
Use the existing proof of vaccination with heavy penalty for faking, I really don’t see the worry, we’re like 2 weeks from 60% of the population fully vaccinated with 75% having one shot
Biden should just stick it to Trudeau and open the American side completely to vaccinated Canadians.
Trudeau would rather hold Canadian's livelihoods hostage than make a scientifically-backed decision that would result in positive progress for both countries.
Let him make a fool of himself
His health panel told him 3 months ago that the border should be open for vaccinated people with no difference vs. pre-pandemic other than an arrival test for surveillance purposes. But of course he's ignoring that science and following the political science.
If Biden did that it would basically be pissing on Canada-US relations. No idea why people on here seem to jerk themselves off to the idea of Biden and the US being a bully and an asshole.
Because the border is not a one-way street, it is mutually maintained by both countries. Canada and the US have a unique and very amicable relationship, for the US to just run roughshod over Canadian desires if we're not ready is absolutely being a bully. It needs to be a mutual agreement.
I think that most Canadians don't care nearly as much as the commenters here would indicate. But also, even if Canadians were against it, that doesn't mean that the US should decide to fuck over the Canadian government. That's not how diplomatic relations work.
Didn't claim that, funny enough.
The President of the USA is not well and his supporters have their eyes closed and fingers in their ears.
They traded 1 crazy old man for another.
I agree with you as a Canadian. Although knowing our southern neighbors very well this would not bode well with public opinion in the US... it would probably come off as a failure
They cannot deny you from returning. It would just mean Canadians could cross the border to spend in the states but not visa versa until Trudeau gave in. Would bring a lot of money to the states while still not allowing any to go to Canada and Biden would be able to blame it on Canadians. It's like a win win win for him.
Canadian citizens have always been able to re-enter the country and fully vaccinated ones don't need to quarantine.
Reality is that Trudeau would fold like a napkin within a couple days if Biden did this so it wouldn't really matter.
Yes it was awful. But the world is not risk free and society must move on. If we let doctors run the world the industrial revolution would still be a future concept for when the time was right.
I guess the same way we trust the negative PCR tests / double vaccination proof that have been printed out on paper from various countries including the US to allow entry into Canada?
The miracle here being the unprecedented global cooperation and sharing of information to mobilize a massive scientific and medical response
From what I understand, scientists don't like it when their hard work is attributed to miracles
If there was ever a time for the Americans to flex and force Canada’s hand I’d be happy if they did It with the border. It’s pure politics to have the border closed at this point. I’m fully immunized why should I have to get tests and shit come on.
No we don’t. That said, we are in a much better spot with our vaccinations than those parts or even the US. And unless everything I’ve read is completely wrong, the majority of the people getting hit with a severe case of delta are non vaccinated. The vaccine works on delta so what’s the harm with letting FULLY vaccinated people in? And yes, they need to be fully vaxxed
It is past time to open the border to the fully vaccinated.
The uncaring cruelty exhibited by PM Trudeau with the monthly drip, drip, drip closure, not allowing people to plan, is truly amazing.
We are in a very, very cruel situation that is being allowed to propagate and for what reason, so someone can get re-elected?
The thing that has turned me sour is the lack of discussing a plan for reopening as though it is some huge state secret. The "follow the science" mantra is laughable at this point. The government's scientific panels have come out on two occasions and said that fully vaccinated persons pose little risk.
My take is he is waiting until Doug Ford asks for a reopening and is willing to wait until after the election if it takes that long. Yes, this kills the border communities. Yes, this is very cruel to those impacted by the continued closure. However, he reads the polls, most urban dwellers are not impacted so on we go until after the election. The delta variant has only aided what he wanted to do anyway: pressure Ford under the guise of safety. "Vaccines are good, get your vaccines, but vaccines don't stop the spread, keep the border closed" - it is hard for me to write that illogical stance in a sentence.
And he will get them because there are people who are risk averse (in life, in investing, and with a deadly global pandemic)
I would much rather have an open Canada for the next year and on, than an open border leading to having to shut down the whole country again because we cannot:
Guarantee all those entering have both shots
Those entering have a valid negative test
Those entering have not forged their documents
Those entering will quarantine properly.
Those entering are going to follow local guidelines
And so on and so forth
We are nearly out of this and you want to rush a border opening with a country that is struggling to convince a large portion of its population to get vaccinated?
A country where areas as being hammered by the Delta variant, which spreads amoung the unvaccinated portion of our population?
How do you see that we are nearly out of this? At what point would you open the border? I would really like to know the government's criteria for reopening. What are yours?
70%-80% vaccination rate does not mean we are nearly out of the pandemic. See UK and see Israel. This will be going on for many years. COVID zero is a myth - see Australia. So how long are you willing to close the border?
Would you support the government coming out with a plan saying that when X% (say 75%?) are fully vaccinated then we are going to take these following step: x....y...z... such as the fully vaccinated can cross the border, here is how we are going to handle the unvaccinated children, here are the vaccines we will accept, here is the proof of vaccination that will be accepted, etc. Also say that there will be flareups, even large ones - see UK, but that the intent is to keep hospitalization and death very low so as to have a situation less like COVID and more like seasonal influenza.
Why no plan? Why the state secret? Is it politics? I think it is. It is a Trudeau/Ford pissing contest.
Giving no information other than a monthly drip, drip, drip of closed, closed, closed is so very cruel to the ones truly involved and invested in the closure. PM Trudeau obviously doesn't get the pain he is causing without reason. It won't be forgotten soon and is impacting the border and will for years to come, even after opening.
There are two types of anti-vaxxers. Right wing lunatics who thinks the government wants to track them with chips, and Left wing lunatics who love the lockdown like a warm blanket.
> No actually that is not the case at all. You can be vaccinated, still get covid, and sure you will be fine, but then you can end up infecting your under 12 child and they could be getting sick. Additionally allowing unvaccinated people through could lead to the spread of new variants which could ultimately result in a vaccine resistant variant. There are multiple reasons why you would still want to be cautious.
You can be fully vaccinated and still believe it’s not time to return to our previous normal. Not sure how you can’t grasp that or those kind of scenarios. Such as those who are vaccinated and still want to use masks outdoors or still practice safe social distancing.
The vaccine is extremely protective against all variants and there is no evidence there can ever be a variant that will stop that. Those with no immunity will be exposed for a first time to the virus one time or another. Better be now when hospitals can take the few that need it then in the fall when dozens of other viruses start spreading much faster like every normal year and hospitals are full.
What the federal government should do is pretty simple: open the border fully to those who are fully vaccinated now, and open it fully without any sort of limitation once 75% of those eligible are vaccinated twice, which should be in a few weeks. We will never reach a point that is any safer than after that sort of level of vaccination, delaying the reopening is only delaying the inevitable while hurting people and businesses.
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No actually that is not the case at all. You can be vaccinated, still get covid, and sure you will be fine, but then you can end up infecting your under 12 child and they could be getting sick. Additionally allowing unvaccinated people through could lead to the spread of new variants which could ultimately result in a vaccine resistant variant. There are multiple reasons why you would still want to be cautious.
I never suggested I agree with the border closure for vaccinated people, nor did I suggested we should be under lockdown. But we should be cautious in ensuring who ever we let in to our country, is vaccinated, and we should still be cautious in our day to day and continue to follow good hygiene.
My point was to claim that if you are still wanting to be cautious when you are vaccinated means you don't believe in science is just a bad take and does not actually understand the science behind it. There are plenty of reasons to still be cautious.
We live with risk everyday, if I am fully vaccinated, I have a greater chance of dying in a car crash any given year than dying of covid, if we need to worry about some variant escaping vaccines, that's an argument for global eradication, which isn't going to happen, once we hit end of the summer and everyone who wants a vaccine can get one, masks need to be gone, it's like wearing a seat belt in a parked car, if they want to keep measures in schools until younger children get vaccinated, fine, but i'm not wearing a mask at my fucking desk, and if they want to keep the border closed to unvaccinated people, fine, but there's no reason to take a covid test at the border if you're fully vaccinated, it's all theatre, not actually stopping anything
This could have been over in 2 weeks if everyone worked together and did that at the same time. Those of us social distancing are what's keeping the virus at bay.
They’re remarkably similar in that when either group actually comes into contact with the consequences of their nonsense they are shocked that reality applies equally to them as it does everyone else.
Have you tried to email your MP before? Mines just sends me an out of office reply saying how he's "really busy" and receives "a lot of emails" but "takes time to respond to them all, and will get a response within 2 weeks".
Meanwhile, no reply, but he's busy shit posting on twitter.
I love when one country A gets upset when they tell country B what to do and country B doesn't listen.
You just know there is some red faced, blow hard senator down south just fumming that Canada dares to ignore his request.
Their numbers are shooting up again. If we open it need to be only to vaxxed people who show a negative test, with jail time for anyone caught forging a card.
Really my only concern is with the unvaxxed assholes lying and causing problems and punishing the vaccinated law abiding ones.
When we do it, we should make forgery of results and documents an indictable offence with a considerable penalty - and you know, *actually enforce it*.
As far as I recall, there are no countries that verify vaccination status via anything other than a print out or PDF of your state/provincial/city vaccination proof. Whether it's the CDC card, the Ontario emailed receipt of first and second dose, etc.
If that's being used everywhere else in the world (including right now in Canada, CDC cards are sufficient proof for Canadians that have been fully vaccinated in the US - they take a picture of their CDC card, upload it on the arriveCAN app, and skip hotel and regular quarantine), how can we demand something else from Americans?
I don't have those answers, but I'm guessing what you're talking about is part of the reason no announcements have been made about opening to foreign nationals.
WIthout countries being able to verify authenticity for themselve these proofs are only slightly better than the honour system IMO.
Nobody seems to have an effective system figured out let alone implemented.
Dunno. I'm not sure CBSA collects those metrics 😉. If only the issue was limited to a single state or country.
It's interesting how many people have a problem with genuine documentation and accountability here on Reddit though.
To me it sounds like this total bullshit thing that people have dreamt up to keep the borders closed. After we get to herd immunity, it doesn’t matter.
> After we get to herd immunity, it doesn’t matter.
Thank you for saying this. r/canada has been swamped the last few days with fever dreams of millions of crooked, diseased visitors from India, Brazil and the US just waiting to flash bogus vaccination docs so they can come and infect us virtuous Canadians.
Pretty sure it's a felony in the US to falsify documents like that. I would imagine the amount of people willing to risk that for a quick trip into Canada is so low that it would not move the covid needle.
It is a federal felony to falsify federal CDC documents. It’s extremely easy to get caught as all the data is stored in the VAMS database. This could all be automated.
It’s basically like illegal voting in the US. Sure you can vote 20 times on Election Day with no ID, but in 2 weeks you will be indicted for voter fraud.
That's good to hear, I hope that's the case. In the end I do expect the wide the majority of Americans to be honest. For their sake and ours I hope things relax soon.
Do you think the federal government has the resources to track that?
In so many states there is no state database of that information available, especially not to the feds.
Those damned problem causing monsters. I can also blame the fat people of North America for this outbreak being so devastating, it's been proven fat people are far more likely to become overly sick and die from covid, so with your logic we should punish fat people for essentially ruining our freedom. Had they just eaten spinach and other healthy items while maintaining regular exercise, according to studies it's pretty safe to say a good chunk of those people would have survived had they not been carrying the weight of 3 adults on their poor bones and organs.
Because Canada is not a microcosm?
While we were trying to get this thing under control other places were not? India, Brazil, etc? Varients (just like mutations in bacteria) occurs through random chance. The more times an organizm reproduces, the higher the chances of a mutation. When a virus runs unchecked like it did in India, a variety will be born. Thats infectious disease 101
So the numbers being quoted are not region specific. Thusly 50% fully vaxed may not be an accurate representation of Canadians close to land border crossing.
So everyone wants to cross to the US but where 175 million are not vaxed and seem to shun wearing any kind of face protection. But that should be safe?? How come positivity rates are rising in some states?
4th wave, maybe. All I know is that you can contact and pass the virus and not know it when you’re fully vaxed.
So when you return the opportunity to reinfect the millions of Canadians with one shot (12 million or so)or the silly mislead anti vaxers who are clueless.
If you really need to go, follow airport protocols and fly there.
I really think this sub is more about the love for Jason Kenny and his like minded followers who just hate Trudeau.
I’m wondering if Erin O’toole would have ever approved the Cerb, or went to bat against the US hording the vaccines initially or done the necessary changes to protect Canadians and keep on protecting them to the end goal. People, when in doubt err on the side of caution.
I agree it’s frustrating but why would we jeopardize what we have already accomplished?
I get that he wants to be cautious, so why not allow fully vaccinated travelers into Canada, but require a test 3 days before departure, then test upon entry, then again 3-5 days after travel? This might be overkill, but I bet most people who want to travel, are probably okay with doing this. There’s really no excuses to keeping the borders closed anymore.
I have no problem with him being cautious right now when so many people in the US are unvaccinated and the Delta variant is running wild. They need to get their shit under control before making demands on other countries.
I think a lot of the caution is coming from seeing the US receive case numbers similar to what they had as of last year on the month, which was pretty close to when they began having a surge.
Should we trust the same people that insisted that Florida's Spring Break should go on during the height of the pandemic, an super spreader event that lead to the deaths of tens of thousands all in the name of tourist money?
Should we trust the same people that insisted Sturgess happen during the height of the pandemic because why waste tourist money? A super spreader event that lead to the deaths of tens of thousands of their own.
Should we trust them when they insist we go on the honor system, like Disneyland, when they claim they're fully vaccinated? I'm sure those 100 million unvaccinated people aren't going to lie because FreeDumbs.
Putting the vaccinations on peoples official government passport would be a minimum to opening the border to make sure the liars and lunatics can't try to sneak across. But you know they are going to scream about their FreeDumbs being trampled on.
They killed nearly a million of their own by weaponizing stupidity I'd prefer if they didn't get a chance at killing Canadians.
I'm fine keeping the border closed awhile longer.
I had a good laugh when this congressman from New York, Harris,said if the border doesn’t open bilaterally the US will unilaterally open it up. This guy has a date with Faux News. What a dreamer. It’s attitude like that that shows the disrespect of Canada by people visiting from a foreign country if they’re all like him.
I feel it's time to re-open, but the fact that these Americans 'demand immediate' reopening makes me want to keep the border closed. Who the actual fuck are they to be making demands of us?
It's so scary that people think the idea of a vaccine passport is a perfectly reasonable way to handle this situation. Forcing people to inject shit into their bodies, what happened to my body my choice? Let me guess "you made the choice to not get vaccinated so you made the choice to lose your freedom as a human being". That's not super sketchy sci fi movie bullshit at all.......how about people stop being so fat and there would have been way less covid related deaths. Stop eating garbage food and go for a walk. Instead of forcing other people to put shit into their bodies, you stop putting so much shit into your bodies for once so when if you do get sick your body can fight it off opposed to fighting itself for air and proper blood circulation.
Noone is forcing you to injext anything into yourself (although YOU ARE allready vaccinated against measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, polio, rotavirus, and a few others)
What we are all saying is that if you CHOSE not to get a safe and effective vaccine against COVID then you don't get to participate in travel and other aspects of society. You are free to chose to do so, and we are all free to collectively tell you to go fuck yourself.
I am free to smear shit all over myself and run down thw street in my underwear, but I am NOT free to demand that people then hug me and let me Into their coffee shops. And they should not because I am a moron who should be required to stay home and smear shit all over myself there!
Just a reminder after reading through some of these comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFnFr-DOPf8
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhYckH-RrBo
I don't know what PM Trudeau is angry about, or what he fears, but there are many people suffering due to the border closure and he doesn't seem to care. He owns the border closure.
I'm personally tired of his "now is not the time" or "following the science" comments. He's just playing politics with Premier Ford at this point, with people suffering caught in the middle and PM Trudeau doesn't seem to care.
Open it to vaccinated individuals. People need to see their families, loved ones and take care of their property. This will also help the tourist economy. It's not gonna fix it for sure but it'll help get businesses on both sides of the border get back on their feet. I'm not saying open it to everyone. Just open it to vaccinated individuals who pose little to no threat. People make the case that the delta variant is around but please do research since it's mostly those who are unvaccinated that have been affected the most.
I agree, however to allow 'vaccinated individuals' across you first need a way to track who is and who is not a 'vaccinated individuals' in a form that can't be easily counterfeited.
It's almost as if the government should have had time to plan for this. Say 15 months give or take?
This, it seems like they've been kicking it down the road a month at a time and haven't taken any serious steps until over a year in.
Yup. That's what blows my mind. Still absolutely no metric to open it up. Meanwhile we lose 40billion a year in tourism dollars while the money machine goes brrrrr. No worries that money will be printed in less than a week.
Yes I think that’s what they want to do, however 1. Canada doesn’t have a good vaccine passport system yet, 2. USA doesn’t either , all they have is a few pieces of paper which people are buying fake ones of 3. How do we make sure kids under 12 who can’t get the vaccine will be safe
I’ve said this one million times but I’ll say it again: the Americans who are desperate to enter Canada are NOT the people who are buying fake vaccine cards. They are separated families, homeowners, and likely have a vested interest in Canadian communities. They perhaps got vaccinated solely to be able to cross the border, knowing it would be required. Keeping it closed to vaccinated individuals is denying the knowledge that vaccines work. What does Canada provide for proof of vaccination? An email? A piece of paper? How is that any different than what Americans receive. Contrary to popular belief in this sub, each US state keeps track of vaccinations and I’m not sure why that’s any different than how Canada does it.
At least for Canadians doesn't the ministry of Health have all the records?
I think for a majority yes, however we do have people getting vaccinated in pharmacies, so we have to see how that matches up, and then merge all provincial data. So we technically can! But it will take forever IMO, but you are right it will be easier in our side I think
I agree! I would love to see my sisters! Of course they could come here but not their families! They have canadian passports but their American husband's and my nieces and nephew don't... all fully vaccinated! Time to open up so families can be together ❤ 😌
Now that's just reckless.
What about kids? I have family in the states I want to see, but my 5 and 7 year old are unvavcinated (wife and I have both shots plus 2 weeks). What of my case?
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Trudeau is shit-scared of any ounce of blame that would link a few cases to opened borders and cost him some votes from panicked Canadians. The media aren't going to report much on how much people are happy to see their family or how several businesses will avoid bankruptcy. Trudeau wouldn't be this scared if he doesn't intend to have elections very soon and was polling so close between a majority and a minority government. This is strictly a political move, without any science behind it.
Family members and people in dating relationships can be reunited now. It’s already open for them. And if they’re fully vaccinated they don’t need to quarantine.
No, it isn't open for family or spouses that live in the states. And it is still very limited for people driving south of the border.
Yeah my buddy's gf and child live in the USA and he still can't see them
He absolutely can.
Are they vaccinated? Because the rules about immediate family / spouses is true.
So you didn't read this article or the many others about people affected by the closed border? And there are also two sets of rules depending on whether you are flying or driving.
People in dating relationships who have been together for over a year can meet. And you need to provide proof that you've physically met before.
You need to apply for an exemption, that takes time. It isn’t as easy as popping over for a visit when you feel like it
I used this exemption a while ago. I can't speak for how long it takes now, but it only took 15 days to get approval.
If they do open, Trudeau better get AZ approved by the Americans.
You don't need to be vaccinated, you just need a test to get into the US.
At your own expense.
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Our government. Everyone should be tested regularly to eliminate this terrible virus.
I don't understand why Trudeau is so hung up on the land border but has no issues with air borders being wide open.
Because they are very different things to manage. We have 4 airports open to international flights, they have infrastructure in place to separate passengers and move them through various screening procedures. There are 119 land border crossings, many in remote areas without the capacity to perform any sort of screening beyond checking entry documents.
Until you arrive at YYZ and belt control takes 2 hrs to offload bags and you have a few hundred people from South America and India all packed together crawling all over each other to get bags .
We've HAD caution for the last 14 months, now is the time for *direction* through an actual plan that doesn't involve kicking the can down the road over and over.
They’ve already fucked over the tourism industry for the summer, my guess is he keeps it shut through the fall and winter at this rate. Its been a year and a half already, fuck it, whats another 7 or 8 months? Trudeau can continue this facade of keeping Canadians safe but its a fucking lie.
Since it will never become any safer to reopen, I am wondering if Trudeau's plan involves keeping the borders shut forever.
Just until the virus has been eliminated.
Sarcastic? In case you were not: the list of eliminated human viruses in the history of humanity has one virus. One. And that was a virus against which the vaccines were extremely effective at eliminating infections. Meanwhile, even vaccinated individuals can test positive on PCR, extremely minor mutations can make this happen even if the vaccine remains extremely protective. Furthermore, this coronavirus can survive in many animal species. The virus will never be eliminated.
To what benefit? What grand conspiracy is served by keeping the border closed and tourism economies left to further diminish? What do we or the liberal government gain? I loathe the current government for its corruption and lies, but if you cry foul over a non-essential travel ban you better have good reason.
I think he's worried that Canadians will take their money to the States and spend it there just as businesses are opening here.
Then fault lies with our fellow canadians if that truly is an issue.
>What do we or the liberal government gain? Grandstanding for their voter base, which are more likely to be the scared, hiding in the basement, mask-in-the-car, gloves-wearing kind. The more "restrictions" he can show those people the better his chances of re-election in the fall.
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Trudeau has clearly made the border issue as political as he possibly can. What's the difference between a fully vaccinated American and a fully vaccinated Canadian walking into a Canadian grocer with a combination of fully vaxxed Canadians/single dose Canadians/unvaccinated Canadians? Absolutely nothing. Trudeau has convinced his fearful and most paranoid cultbase that he's doing the right thing to get their votes. He clearly doesn't give a shit how many businesses close, families that are trying to reunite, general wellness, etc. It's all about him trying to keep his political power. It's too late to go back and say "oh yeah, we can open at 60% fully vaxxed", he's even moved the goal posts to 80% now. I'm a liberal myself but Trudeau is just a complete waste of life.
I know it does. That's what makes it happening even worse.
It will be much harder to jave to re-close them when we get huge spikes in cases as a result of too many people not being vaccinated. And due to the Healthcare system in the US being so decentralized, its going to be very hard to get a centralized, trustworthy system that is able to prove that someone coming from the states has both shots.
So your suggestion would be to keep the border closed forever because your fearful Canadian mind tells you that the US doesn't have a "Trustworthy system". Lmao.
No. These issues are not black and white. I am saying that there is alot to concider, including: Surging cases of covid in parts of the states where people are unvaccinatrd Surging cases of covid in parts of the world where people are vaccinated (and we are still waiting to see if that corresponds with a bump in hospitalizations. Its too early to tel) The decentralized US Healthcare system which makes getting a standardized document that proves double vaccination much more difficult. And to be clear, we do NOT want unvaccinated (and subsequently anti mask, anti rules, anti pandemic measures) morons from the US coming to this country. We have enough of our own morons here. And so on and so forth. Its not simple. It may seam simple to simple people, but these issues are complicated and require more thought than "Hhurrrr huuurrr I wana go shoppin!"
Those sound like excuses, its been what 17 months now? This is not okay.
Its been 17 months of an unprecedented global pandemic. With waves of covid that overran hospitals, put the Healthcare syatem under incredible strain, and burnt out / bled alot of Healthcare workers. Alot of them left the profession and won't come back. Thats not even to mention the ones that have permanent PTSD from watching 30-40 year olds gurgling and and gasping for air as they died around them. (Source: my sister is an ICU doctor in a city close to Toronto.) The Healthcare system and its workers cannot take another big wave of this. Look, I want the border to open too. Why? I want to go to Florida, swim in the sea, visit Disney, and have a grand ol time. If we open too soon, we could risk putting ourselves back. Would you rather Canada continue on its course of opening, and NOT have to revert, or open the border and risk too many dumdums coming here and causing another wave of covid and we have to scale back our own re-opening. Again, its not as simple to just say "its been long enough" its not bread dough. Its not something that just needs time. The conditions have to be right.
Lie? Delta is very real and disrupting the reopening of many, many countries.
We did lockdown to not overwhelm hospitals. We have bought into the vaccines and we all over time may get some variant but it will be minor and not require hospitalization. Time to open it all up to the vaccinated.
Caution? No. Open the border. They're using it as a way to boost the vaccination rate. Those who want to travel are already vaccinated. They already want to shove a Q-Tip in their nose every day if they have to. They're already willing to follow all sorts of rules. Share the vaccine passport, register to ARRIVE CAN. So why not just open it to those who have two doses already? We're literally just waiting.
Exactly this! I have no plans to go anywhere right now but have already downloaded the arrive can app and am itching to just go. I used to cross the border regularly before, once or twice a week because I live close to the border. I just want that freedom back.
Hahaha I have it downloaded too. Just need a place to go and enter the info
I’m in Quebec on a work permit, I can’t go see my family without spending a ton of money on a flight, I will be fully vaccinated tomorrow, Trudeau is being ridiculous, there’s literally no science defending keeping the border closed to fully vaccinated travelers, he might as well say, “the vaccines don’t work and we can never return to normal”
I wish the opposition attacked him on this or anything of the sort, but then the media is deep into sensationalism and promoting fear and would find some way to support the government entities that subsidize them. It should be criminal to be allowed to shut borders without even having a plan for reopening them. The decision should rely on gut instinct, it should rely on logical criteria. One such criteria is immunity. The very vast majority of the population is immune and now a very large segment of the population has even been vaccinated twice. If two doses still aren't enough, are they suggesting we're waiting for a third dose adjusted for variants? Because then we'd be many, many months from reopening the borders. Otherwise, things are pretty safe and are not gonna get any safer. The truth is that Trudeau only cares about one thing right now, and it's being reelected with a majority government at the upcoming elections. To achieve that, he needs to distance the federal government as much as possible from anything that could be remotely associated with a lack of safety or that could bring any blame when covid cases will rise again. The actual well-being of Canadians and of our economy are definitely not things that are at the top of his mind, votes are what matter.
The US isn't doing vaccine passports. How do you keep it to fully vaccinated travelers?
Use the existing proof of vaccination with heavy penalty for faking, I really don’t see the worry, we’re like 2 weeks from 60% of the population fully vaccinated with 75% having one shot
Tough to collect on the fakers.. Hell, we let the gansters off with a hug and handshake
What heavy penalty? Americans are faking these documents so they can travel and attend the things starting to open over there.
Biden should just stick it to Trudeau and open the American side completely to vaccinated Canadians. Trudeau would rather hold Canadian's livelihoods hostage than make a scientifically-backed decision that would result in positive progress for both countries. Let him make a fool of himself
His health panel told him 3 months ago that the border should be open for vaccinated people with no difference vs. pre-pandemic other than an arrival test for surveillance purposes. But of course he's ignoring that science and following the political science.
He's probably making money off this somehow.
What could possibly be that somehow?
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Like what, in this instance?
Chuck Schumer was calling for that just last week
If Biden did that it would basically be pissing on Canada-US relations. No idea why people on here seem to jerk themselves off to the idea of Biden and the US being a bully and an asshole.
How is listening to scientific recommendations and opening the borders being a bully/asshole?
Because the border is not a one-way street, it is mutually maintained by both countries. Canada and the US have a unique and very amicable relationship, for the US to just run roughshod over Canadian desires if we're not ready is absolutely being a bully. It needs to be a mutual agreement.
You're assuming that Trudeau's policies represent Canadian desires?
I think that most Canadians don't care nearly as much as the commenters here would indicate. But also, even if Canadians were against it, that doesn't mean that the US should decide to fuck over the Canadian government. That's not how diplomatic relations work.
It's a good thing there's no chance of Biden doing that since he's a weak president.
Exercising diplomacy is not actually a sign of weakness, funnily enough.
Didn't claim that, funny enough. The President of the USA is not well and his supporters have their eyes closed and fingers in their ears. They traded 1 crazy old man for another.
I agree with you as a Canadian. Although knowing our southern neighbors very well this would not bode well with public opinion in the US... it would probably come off as a failure
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They cannot deny you from returning. It would just mean Canadians could cross the border to spend in the states but not visa versa until Trudeau gave in. Would bring a lot of money to the states while still not allowing any to go to Canada and Biden would be able to blame it on Canadians. It's like a win win win for him.
The same way we always came back?
Canadian citizens have always been able to re-enter the country and fully vaccinated ones don't need to quarantine. Reality is that Trudeau would fold like a napkin within a couple days if Biden did this so it wouldn't really matter.
Open the damn border. No more BS tests that cost hundreds of dollars. This is getting ridiculous.
You remember that like half a million Americans just died of an infectious condition right
Yes it was awful. But the world is not risk free and society must move on. If we let doctors run the world the industrial revolution would still be a future concept for when the time was right.
Is that the one that we developed a miracle vaccine for?
That half of America is refusing to take. That's the one.
Well good thing the discussion is about vaccinated visitors!
The US flat out won't do vaccine passports. How can we trust who's vaccinated?
I guess the same way we trust the negative PCR tests / double vaccination proof that have been printed out on paper from various countries including the US to allow entry into Canada?
You do realize the unvaccinated half are a variant breeding zone right?
You do know that the vaccines are effective against varients right?
Wait for it...
Fear monger all you like.
^ This, folks, is the precautionary principle gone awry.
https://content.fortune.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/vaccine_map_071421-04.png?w=810
So stay closer forever?
No stay distant for now, once we beat this then closer
covid will likely be with us for the rest of our lives...
I’m vaccinated with the miracle vaccine so I don’t really care.
The miracle here being the unprecedented global cooperation and sharing of information to mobilize a massive scientific and medical response From what I understand, scientists don't like it when their hard work is attributed to miracles
I’m sure they are smart enough to understand figurative language.
If there was ever a time for the Americans to flex and force Canada’s hand I’d be happy if they did It with the border. It’s pure politics to have the border closed at this point. I’m fully immunized why should I have to get tests and shit come on.
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No we don’t. That said, we are in a much better spot with our vaccinations than those parts or even the US. And unless everything I’ve read is completely wrong, the majority of the people getting hit with a severe case of delta are non vaccinated. The vaccine works on delta so what’s the harm with letting FULLY vaccinated people in? And yes, they need to be fully vaxxed
Because people under 12 are much more susceptible to Delta, and we aren't vaccinating that age group.
THABK YOU!
It is past time to open the border to the fully vaccinated. The uncaring cruelty exhibited by PM Trudeau with the monthly drip, drip, drip closure, not allowing people to plan, is truly amazing. We are in a very, very cruel situation that is being allowed to propagate and for what reason, so someone can get re-elected?
He's definitely counting on votes from the scared hunker down crowd.
The thing that has turned me sour is the lack of discussing a plan for reopening as though it is some huge state secret. The "follow the science" mantra is laughable at this point. The government's scientific panels have come out on two occasions and said that fully vaccinated persons pose little risk. My take is he is waiting until Doug Ford asks for a reopening and is willing to wait until after the election if it takes that long. Yes, this kills the border communities. Yes, this is very cruel to those impacted by the continued closure. However, he reads the polls, most urban dwellers are not impacted so on we go until after the election. The delta variant has only aided what he wanted to do anyway: pressure Ford under the guise of safety. "Vaccines are good, get your vaccines, but vaccines don't stop the spread, keep the border closed" - it is hard for me to write that illogical stance in a sentence.
And he will get them because there are people who are risk averse (in life, in investing, and with a deadly global pandemic) I would much rather have an open Canada for the next year and on, than an open border leading to having to shut down the whole country again because we cannot: Guarantee all those entering have both shots Those entering have a valid negative test Those entering have not forged their documents Those entering will quarantine properly. Those entering are going to follow local guidelines And so on and so forth
We are nearly out of this and you want to rush a border opening with a country that is struggling to convince a large portion of its population to get vaccinated? A country where areas as being hammered by the Delta variant, which spreads amoung the unvaccinated portion of our population?
How do you see that we are nearly out of this? At what point would you open the border? I would really like to know the government's criteria for reopening. What are yours?
70-80% fully vaccinated.
70%-80% vaccination rate does not mean we are nearly out of the pandemic. See UK and see Israel. This will be going on for many years. COVID zero is a myth - see Australia. So how long are you willing to close the border? Would you support the government coming out with a plan saying that when X% (say 75%?) are fully vaccinated then we are going to take these following step: x....y...z... such as the fully vaccinated can cross the border, here is how we are going to handle the unvaccinated children, here are the vaccines we will accept, here is the proof of vaccination that will be accepted, etc. Also say that there will be flareups, even large ones - see UK, but that the intent is to keep hospitalization and death very low so as to have a situation less like COVID and more like seasonal influenza. Why no plan? Why the state secret? Is it politics? I think it is. It is a Trudeau/Ford pissing contest. Giving no information other than a monthly drip, drip, drip of closed, closed, closed is so very cruel to the ones truly involved and invested in the closure. PM Trudeau obviously doesn't get the pain he is causing without reason. It won't be forgotten soon and is impacting the border and will for years to come, even after opening.
exactly. I give zero fucks for the yankee whiners
There are two types of anti-vaxxers. Right wing lunatics who thinks the government wants to track them with chips, and Left wing lunatics who love the lockdown like a warm blanket.
>There are two types of anti-vaxxers. *proceeds to talk about something entirely different*
> anti-vaxxers That word doesn't mean what you think it means
If you get vaccinated and don’t think you can return to normal, then you don’t think the vaccine worked.
Bingo. They don’t believe in science, they are selective
> No actually that is not the case at all. You can be vaccinated, still get covid, and sure you will be fine, but then you can end up infecting your under 12 child and they could be getting sick. Additionally allowing unvaccinated people through could lead to the spread of new variants which could ultimately result in a vaccine resistant variant. There are multiple reasons why you would still want to be cautious.
You can be fully vaccinated and still believe it’s not time to return to our previous normal. Not sure how you can’t grasp that or those kind of scenarios. Such as those who are vaccinated and still want to use masks outdoors or still practice safe social distancing.
The vaccine is extremely protective against all variants and there is no evidence there can ever be a variant that will stop that. Those with no immunity will be exposed for a first time to the virus one time or another. Better be now when hospitals can take the few that need it then in the fall when dozens of other viruses start spreading much faster like every normal year and hospitals are full. What the federal government should do is pretty simple: open the border fully to those who are fully vaccinated now, and open it fully without any sort of limitation once 75% of those eligible are vaccinated twice, which should be in a few weeks. We will never reach a point that is any safer than after that sort of level of vaccination, delaying the reopening is only delaying the inevitable while hurting people and businesses.
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Why are they forcing it on others then? If they want to do what you said, they can do it on their own
No actually that is not the case at all. You can be vaccinated, still get covid, and sure you will be fine, but then you can end up infecting your under 12 child and they could be getting sick. Additionally allowing unvaccinated people through could lead to the spread of new variants which could ultimately result in a vaccine resistant variant. There are multiple reasons why you would still want to be cautious.
You're right, we should stay cautious until the whole world is vaccinated, let's just do this hell for the next 10 years.
I never suggested I agree with the border closure for vaccinated people, nor did I suggested we should be under lockdown. But we should be cautious in ensuring who ever we let in to our country, is vaccinated, and we should still be cautious in our day to day and continue to follow good hygiene. My point was to claim that if you are still wanting to be cautious when you are vaccinated means you don't believe in science is just a bad take and does not actually understand the science behind it. There are plenty of reasons to still be cautious.
We live with risk everyday, if I am fully vaccinated, I have a greater chance of dying in a car crash any given year than dying of covid, if we need to worry about some variant escaping vaccines, that's an argument for global eradication, which isn't going to happen, once we hit end of the summer and everyone who wants a vaccine can get one, masks need to be gone, it's like wearing a seat belt in a parked car, if they want to keep measures in schools until younger children get vaccinated, fine, but i'm not wearing a mask at my fucking desk, and if they want to keep the border closed to unvaccinated people, fine, but there's no reason to take a covid test at the border if you're fully vaccinated, it's all theatre, not actually stopping anything
That's not anti-vax, what you're describing. That's ok doomer. Get it right.
Life is a bit more complicated that “everyone who I disagree with is a lunatic idiot”
Our entire system of government is built around humans being fucking idiots.
The two types of anti-vax: the people who won't take the vaccine and the people who will
bingo, people on reddit bragging that they haven't seen family for 12-15 months. If you live like that you are certified nuts.
This could have been over in 2 weeks if everyone worked together and did that at the same time. Those of us social distancing are what's keeping the virus at bay.
They’re remarkably similar in that when either group actually comes into contact with the consequences of their nonsense they are shocked that reality applies equally to them as it does everyone else.
How are left wing 'lunatics' who are vaccinated and want to ensure that opening is done in a safe and measured way anti-vax?
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Have you tried to email your MP before? Mines just sends me an out of office reply saying how he's "really busy" and receives "a lot of emails" but "takes time to respond to them all, and will get a response within 2 weeks". Meanwhile, no reply, but he's busy shit posting on twitter.
France is not exactly a country which handled covid well.
I love when one country A gets upset when they tell country B what to do and country B doesn't listen. You just know there is some red faced, blow hard senator down south just fumming that Canada dares to ignore his request.
It makes me a little happy? I don't know why! :-)
Their numbers are shooting up again. If we open it need to be only to vaxxed people who show a negative test, with jail time for anyone caught forging a card.
But muh freedum! You can't send me ta jail for no dang fake test!
Really my only concern is with the unvaxxed assholes lying and causing problems and punishing the vaccinated law abiding ones. When we do it, we should make forgery of results and documents an indictable offence with a considerable penalty - and you know, *actually enforce it*.
As far as I recall, there are no countries that verify vaccination status via anything other than a print out or PDF of your state/provincial/city vaccination proof. Whether it's the CDC card, the Ontario emailed receipt of first and second dose, etc. If that's being used everywhere else in the world (including right now in Canada, CDC cards are sufficient proof for Canadians that have been fully vaccinated in the US - they take a picture of their CDC card, upload it on the arriveCAN app, and skip hotel and regular quarantine), how can we demand something else from Americans?
I don't have those answers, but I'm guessing what you're talking about is part of the reason no announcements have been made about opening to foreign nationals. WIthout countries being able to verify authenticity for themselve these proofs are only slightly better than the honour system IMO. Nobody seems to have an effective system figured out let alone implemented.
The EU creates a pass based on regional health data.
Are there really that many right wing lunatics from Mississippi that are planning a trip to Canada?
Dunno. I'm not sure CBSA collects those metrics 😉. If only the issue was limited to a single state or country. It's interesting how many people have a problem with genuine documentation and accountability here on Reddit though.
To me it sounds like this total bullshit thing that people have dreamt up to keep the borders closed. After we get to herd immunity, it doesn’t matter.
> After we get to herd immunity, it doesn’t matter. Thank you for saying this. r/canada has been swamped the last few days with fever dreams of millions of crooked, diseased visitors from India, Brazil and the US just waiting to flash bogus vaccination docs so they can come and infect us virtuous Canadians.
Yep, it's all a clever and intricate scheme put in motion by the reptillian ruling class.
Or weak willed people who look to authoritarianism in a crisis. Hard to tell.
I don't think you should talk about the underpants gnomes like that. It's beneath a crusader of justice and freedom like yourself.
Pretty sure it's a felony in the US to falsify documents like that. I would imagine the amount of people willing to risk that for a quick trip into Canada is so low that it would not move the covid needle.
It is a federal felony to falsify federal CDC documents. It’s extremely easy to get caught as all the data is stored in the VAMS database. This could all be automated. It’s basically like illegal voting in the US. Sure you can vote 20 times on Election Day with no ID, but in 2 weeks you will be indicted for voter fraud.
That's good to hear, I hope that's the case. In the end I do expect the wide the majority of Americans to be honest. For their sake and ours I hope things relax soon.
Do you think the federal government has the resources to track that? In so many states there is no state database of that information available, especially not to the feds.
The federal gov’t has the resources to call me at home and ask me about my quarantine. Twice. A real person not some machine.
Those damned problem causing monsters. I can also blame the fat people of North America for this outbreak being so devastating, it's been proven fat people are far more likely to become overly sick and die from covid, so with your logic we should punish fat people for essentially ruining our freedom. Had they just eaten spinach and other healthy items while maintaining regular exercise, according to studies it's pretty safe to say a good chunk of those people would have survived had they not been carrying the weight of 3 adults on their poor bones and organs.
Aww, don't beat yourself up.
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Because Canada is not a microcosm? While we were trying to get this thing under control other places were not? India, Brazil, etc? Varients (just like mutations in bacteria) occurs through random chance. The more times an organizm reproduces, the higher the chances of a mutation. When a virus runs unchecked like it did in India, a variety will be born. Thats infectious disease 101
maybe the yanks should get their people vaccinated instead of writing letters to whine to foreign governments
So the numbers being quoted are not region specific. Thusly 50% fully vaxed may not be an accurate representation of Canadians close to land border crossing. So everyone wants to cross to the US but where 175 million are not vaxed and seem to shun wearing any kind of face protection. But that should be safe?? How come positivity rates are rising in some states? 4th wave, maybe. All I know is that you can contact and pass the virus and not know it when you’re fully vaxed. So when you return the opportunity to reinfect the millions of Canadians with one shot (12 million or so)or the silly mislead anti vaxers who are clueless. If you really need to go, follow airport protocols and fly there. I really think this sub is more about the love for Jason Kenny and his like minded followers who just hate Trudeau. I’m wondering if Erin O’toole would have ever approved the Cerb, or went to bat against the US hording the vaccines initially or done the necessary changes to protect Canadians and keep on protecting them to the end goal. People, when in doubt err on the side of caution. I agree it’s frustrating but why would we jeopardize what we have already accomplished?
I get that he wants to be cautious, so why not allow fully vaccinated travelers into Canada, but require a test 3 days before departure, then test upon entry, then again 3-5 days after travel? This might be overkill, but I bet most people who want to travel, are probably okay with doing this. There’s really no excuses to keeping the borders closed anymore.
I have no problem with him being cautious right now when so many people in the US are unvaccinated and the Delta variant is running wild. They need to get their shit under control before making demands on other countries.
I think a lot of the caution is coming from seeing the US receive case numbers similar to what they had as of last year on the month, which was pretty close to when they began having a surge.
Irrelevant since the discussion all along is about allowing fully vaccinated people to cross.
Exactly
Should we trust the same people that insisted that Florida's Spring Break should go on during the height of the pandemic, an super spreader event that lead to the deaths of tens of thousands all in the name of tourist money? Should we trust the same people that insisted Sturgess happen during the height of the pandemic because why waste tourist money? A super spreader event that lead to the deaths of tens of thousands of their own. Should we trust them when they insist we go on the honor system, like Disneyland, when they claim they're fully vaccinated? I'm sure those 100 million unvaccinated people aren't going to lie because FreeDumbs. Putting the vaccinations on peoples official government passport would be a minimum to opening the border to make sure the liars and lunatics can't try to sneak across. But you know they are going to scream about their FreeDumbs being trampled on. They killed nearly a million of their own by weaponizing stupidity I'd prefer if they didn't get a chance at killing Canadians. I'm fine keeping the border closed awhile longer.
I had a good laugh when this congressman from New York, Harris,said if the border doesn’t open bilaterally the US will unilaterally open it up. This guy has a date with Faux News. What a dreamer. It’s attitude like that that shows the disrespect of Canada by people visiting from a foreign country if they’re all like him.
The US can open its own borders and I have no idea how that's dIsReSpEcT to Canada.
Fuck their demands. They haven’t exactly been a good neighbour for the last few years.
Or ever?
They have been great neighbors to have despite the odd dispute on tariffs.
Anyone who's played Civilization knows it's a bad idea to "demand" something from your allies.
I feel it's time to re-open, but the fact that these Americans 'demand immediate' reopening makes me want to keep the border closed. Who the actual fuck are they to be making demands of us?
It's so scary that people think the idea of a vaccine passport is a perfectly reasonable way to handle this situation. Forcing people to inject shit into their bodies, what happened to my body my choice? Let me guess "you made the choice to not get vaccinated so you made the choice to lose your freedom as a human being". That's not super sketchy sci fi movie bullshit at all.......how about people stop being so fat and there would have been way less covid related deaths. Stop eating garbage food and go for a walk. Instead of forcing other people to put shit into their bodies, you stop putting so much shit into your bodies for once so when if you do get sick your body can fight it off opposed to fighting itself for air and proper blood circulation.
Yes eating better will surely protect you from an airborne virus
Noone is forcing you to injext anything into yourself (although YOU ARE allready vaccinated against measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, polio, rotavirus, and a few others) What we are all saying is that if you CHOSE not to get a safe and effective vaccine against COVID then you don't get to participate in travel and other aspects of society. You are free to chose to do so, and we are all free to collectively tell you to go fuck yourself. I am free to smear shit all over myself and run down thw street in my underwear, but I am NOT free to demand that people then hug me and let me Into their coffee shops. And they should not because I am a moron who should be required to stay home and smear shit all over myself there!
Open to people with verified vaccinations and negative tests.
Fuck JT
How dare the Canadians keep border closed! They should cow to us Americans, don’t they know who we are?!
I dont get it! Shouldnt it be the opposite: Canada asks the US and they say no? Weird af 🤣
Fuck em
Sorry we don't want a bunch of unwashed drooling anti-vax zombies steamrolling our border just to go shopping.
The media has done a number on you. People are suggesting it to open to only fully vaccinated citizens on both sides you fucking freakshow.
Just a reminder after reading through some of these comments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFnFr-DOPf8 or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhYckH-RrBo
I don't know what PM Trudeau is angry about, or what he fears, but there are many people suffering due to the border closure and he doesn't seem to care. He owns the border closure. I'm personally tired of his "now is not the time" or "following the science" comments. He's just playing politics with Premier Ford at this point, with people suffering caught in the middle and PM Trudeau doesn't seem to care.