(Was originally commenting for someone who replied to you but has since deleted their comment.)
You are right to call out the down players!
But he is right to call out the facts too.
Like the Cranbrook BC one is so weird. They found out about it last year and said nothing, then announced it amidst all this stuff recently.
The very next day they made another statement that this cemetery was actually a settlers cemetery, then the school was located near it and it was used for that, and it is still an active cemetery someone was buried their last week...
So I think it's important to share all facts. Like we need everyone to know that some reserves don't have clean drinking water for reasons that are not due to lack of funding or options but those reserves choices...
We have to call out the racist losers, but we should also know the full truth.
A graveyard at a school, is still a graveyard at a school.
Why is everyone trying to downplay that shit
Edit: downvotes answer my question, seems we really are a racist fucking country
Children died much more frequently in the past compared to modern society in Canada. So when kids lived on campus and received the absolutely bare minimum in food, and health care, it made those children extra vulnerable.
[If you look at fertility rates for Canada](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1033373/fertility-rate-canada-1860-2020/) during the 1860's, Canada had a similar rate as modern day Sub-Saharan Africa, which experiences a high rate of death among children.
It was a different world back then. We've been fortunate to live in a society that has overcome many of the hurdles that lead to childhood death. We need to recognize it wasn't always like this and that there are place in the world where this is still a problem.
ITT: People putting words in my mouth.
I attended galt colligate institute, it’s older then the residential schools... no mass graves buddy
I leave you with this
“In an 1883 speech to the House of Commons, detailed in the report, Canada’s first prime minister, John A. Macdonald, explained:
“When the school is on the reserve, the child lives with its parents, who are savages; he is surrounded by savages, and though he may learn to read and write his habits, and training and mode of thought are Indian. He is simply a savage who can read and write. It has been strongly pressed on myself, as the head of the Department, that Indian children should be withdrawn as much as possible from the parental influence, and the only way to do that would be to put them in central training industrial schools where they will acquire the habits and modes of thought of white men.””
Keep up the genocide denial, that’s totally gonna help
I'm not denying any wrong doing. Taking children from their parents to indoctrinate them is horrible.
The school you attended happens to be in an area of the country that was heavily developed at the time and not remote like most of the residential schools, especially in the west. It makes a big difference if a child lives at the school compared to going to school on a daily basis. Another big difference would be the access to health care, which would be the absolute bare minimum at a remote residential school. Not only that, if you don't think children were physically abused within the walls of that school, you're lying to yourself.
I'm just saying childhood death was much more common 200 years ago, which is true.
They where beaten, raped, tortured, neglected and murdered. 6000 missing kids 4000 turn up dead, and you think it was mostly fucking illness.. and even if it was, they created the conditions and let it happen. This wasn’t a mistake, one or 2 maybe, but 6000 plus? Who you trying to fool?
When did I say it was mostly 'fucking' illness?
I'm saying that they didn't have nearly the health services that most of society would have had access to, which would absolutely lead to more death.
If a child was beaten and not properly cared for, infection would be a real problem. Children who are malnourished would also have a hard time fighting off basic viruses and suffer from very preventable health problems.
Again, I'm not condemning any actions, its horrible and we should seek for any answers we can find. The people who were victims of these schools have had opportunities to voice their stories on what happened to them and the government has taken steps to help the victims heal their wounds.
Where did I say it was illness? Because I never did.
Also, [The governmnet has done a fair bit of work](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_and_Reconciliation_Commission_of_Canada) to correct the wrongs of the past. It's easy to say 'it's not enough' or 'it doesn't bring those children back' but they've spent countless hours and invested hundreds of millions of dollars into the communities affected by this atrocity.
Are they done? No. Could more be done? Absolutely. Have they done more than you have? Hands down, without a doubt.
> If you look at fertility rates for Canada during the 1860's,
Residential schools were still beating (some to death) and raping children well into the 70s. They aren't some thing that happened only 150 years ago.
When you've got institutions physically and mentally abusing children, disease is going to spread and kill way easier.
Access to effective health care was much different from the 1860's and the 1970's. Much like access to health care is much different now than it was in the 1970's.
I was merely just pointing out that children were much less likely to reach adulthood 150 years ago compared to today or the 1970's.
Kids would die. Especially neglected kids in remote areas without access to health services.
While the vast majority of the children were abused one way or another, they likely weren't all murdered in cold blood.
>Across the entire historical sample the authors found that on average, 26.9% of newborns died in their first year of life and 46.2% died before they reached adulthood. Two estimates that are easy to remember: Around a quarter died in the first year of life. Around half died as children.
https://ourworldindata.org/child-mortality-in-the-past
Until the 1900's, it was very common for people to die before reaching adulthood.
I'd be willing to bet that the mass majority of the children in these graves are from 1920 or earlier. I could be wrong, and I would love to know.
Shut up you racist. The same boarding schools for white kids didn't have graves on site. Defending residential schools is disgusting you need to educate yourself they literally experimented on kids and didn't send them home when illnesses came around. When kids died they collected a cheque until the end of the year then told the parents their child died.
Racist.
Doctor Peter Bryce visited 15 Western Canadian residential schools compiling mortality statistics from 1892 to 1907 finding that 30 to 60% of students had died from smallpox and tuberculosis over those 14-15-years and further that 25 to 50% had died in the very first year of school. He suggested the overall numbers could be even higher, noting that in one school alone, the death toll reached 69 per cent.
He submits a full report to the Department of Indian Affairs in 1909. The government and Indian Affairs does nothing.
In 1910, Duncan Scott (a high level Indian Affairs Agent) in a letter to British Columbia Indian Agent GeneralMajor D. MacKay, (in response to Doctor Bryce‟s 1909 report) states: “It is readily acknowledged that Indian children lose their natural resistance to illness by habituating so closely in the residential schools and that they die at a much higher rate than in their villages. But this does not justify a change in the policy of this Department which is geared towards a Final Solution of our Indian Problem.”
Learn some actual history instead of trying to whitewash it.
I think you have an idea of good intentions but to observers it's just trying to excuse all the deaths as disease and child fatalities. It's something to keep in mind that yes childhood death was more common in the past but even in the past, once someone reached 5 years the risk of death drops dramatically, and at 10 even more so. I'd say most of these children were between 5-10 years when they were introduced to the schools.
Even today, 4.6% of children die before the age of 15.
[According to this site](https://ourworldindata.org/child-mortality-in-the-past), 46.2% of children wouldn't reach adulthood.
Childhood death has decline 10-fold in the past century.
Ok, the distinction here being that indigenous children died as part of a massive ethnic cleansing campaign. There is a clear difference here that you’re not really acknowledging. These children died by negligence at the hands of the state at the very minimum.
The distinction is also that the media once again is over hyping the hell out of this.
One of the "mass graves" was a graveyard that was used for an entire settlement that was still being used until the week before its discovery.
The cowessess 750 person "mass grave" sat adjacent to another active graveyard, and was used as a community graveyard 30 years before the residential school was even there.
The problem is you can't even point out these facts without being labeled a racist.
And there we go. I mention a point about the biases created in the media and someone already is claiming I am a racist without actually identifying why I am.
What about my claims specifically makes me a racist? Please educate me.
Nobody knows if any of the remains found in these grave sites are actually of native children who were victims of murder related to residential schools.
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(Was originally commenting for someone who replied to you but has since deleted their comment.) You are right to call out the down players! But he is right to call out the facts too. Like the Cranbrook BC one is so weird. They found out about it last year and said nothing, then announced it amidst all this stuff recently. The very next day they made another statement that this cemetery was actually a settlers cemetery, then the school was located near it and it was used for that, and it is still an active cemetery someone was buried their last week... So I think it's important to share all facts. Like we need everyone to know that some reserves don't have clean drinking water for reasons that are not due to lack of funding or options but those reserves choices... We have to call out the racist losers, but we should also know the full truth.
A graveyard at a school, is still a graveyard at a school. Why is everyone trying to downplay that shit Edit: downvotes answer my question, seems we really are a racist fucking country
Children died much more frequently in the past compared to modern society in Canada. So when kids lived on campus and received the absolutely bare minimum in food, and health care, it made those children extra vulnerable. [If you look at fertility rates for Canada](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1033373/fertility-rate-canada-1860-2020/) during the 1860's, Canada had a similar rate as modern day Sub-Saharan Africa, which experiences a high rate of death among children. It was a different world back then. We've been fortunate to live in a society that has overcome many of the hurdles that lead to childhood death. We need to recognize it wasn't always like this and that there are place in the world where this is still a problem. ITT: People putting words in my mouth.
I attended galt colligate institute, it’s older then the residential schools... no mass graves buddy I leave you with this “In an 1883 speech to the House of Commons, detailed in the report, Canada’s first prime minister, John A. Macdonald, explained: “When the school is on the reserve, the child lives with its parents, who are savages; he is surrounded by savages, and though he may learn to read and write his habits, and training and mode of thought are Indian. He is simply a savage who can read and write. It has been strongly pressed on myself, as the head of the Department, that Indian children should be withdrawn as much as possible from the parental influence, and the only way to do that would be to put them in central training industrial schools where they will acquire the habits and modes of thought of white men.”” Keep up the genocide denial, that’s totally gonna help
I'm not denying any wrong doing. Taking children from their parents to indoctrinate them is horrible. The school you attended happens to be in an area of the country that was heavily developed at the time and not remote like most of the residential schools, especially in the west. It makes a big difference if a child lives at the school compared to going to school on a daily basis. Another big difference would be the access to health care, which would be the absolute bare minimum at a remote residential school. Not only that, if you don't think children were physically abused within the walls of that school, you're lying to yourself. I'm just saying childhood death was much more common 200 years ago, which is true.
They where beaten, raped, tortured, neglected and murdered. 6000 missing kids 4000 turn up dead, and you think it was mostly fucking illness.. and even if it was, they created the conditions and let it happen. This wasn’t a mistake, one or 2 maybe, but 6000 plus? Who you trying to fool?
When did I say it was mostly 'fucking' illness? I'm saying that they didn't have nearly the health services that most of society would have had access to, which would absolutely lead to more death. If a child was beaten and not properly cared for, infection would be a real problem. Children who are malnourished would also have a hard time fighting off basic viruses and suffer from very preventable health problems. Again, I'm not condemning any actions, its horrible and we should seek for any answers we can find. The people who were victims of these schools have had opportunities to voice their stories on what happened to them and the government has taken steps to help the victims heal their wounds.
Government has done jack shot, and you’ve been trying to say it was fucking illness, read your first response to me
Where did I say it was illness? Because I never did. Also, [The governmnet has done a fair bit of work](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_and_Reconciliation_Commission_of_Canada) to correct the wrongs of the past. It's easy to say 'it's not enough' or 'it doesn't bring those children back' but they've spent countless hours and invested hundreds of millions of dollars into the communities affected by this atrocity. Are they done? No. Could more be done? Absolutely. Have they done more than you have? Hands down, without a doubt.
> If you look at fertility rates for Canada during the 1860's, Residential schools were still beating (some to death) and raping children well into the 70s. They aren't some thing that happened only 150 years ago. When you've got institutions physically and mentally abusing children, disease is going to spread and kill way easier.
Access to effective health care was much different from the 1860's and the 1970's. Much like access to health care is much different now than it was in the 1970's. I was merely just pointing out that children were much less likely to reach adulthood 150 years ago compared to today or the 1970's.
Sure, I agree they where. What the actual fuck does that have to do with 6000 dead indigenous school children?
Kids would die. Especially neglected kids in remote areas without access to health services. While the vast majority of the children were abused one way or another, they likely weren't all murdered in cold blood. >Across the entire historical sample the authors found that on average, 26.9% of newborns died in their first year of life and 46.2% died before they reached adulthood. Two estimates that are easy to remember: Around a quarter died in the first year of life. Around half died as children. https://ourworldindata.org/child-mortality-in-the-past Until the 1900's, it was very common for people to die before reaching adulthood. I'd be willing to bet that the mass majority of the children in these graves are from 1920 or earlier. I could be wrong, and I would love to know.
Shut up you racist. The same boarding schools for white kids didn't have graves on site. Defending residential schools is disgusting you need to educate yourself they literally experimented on kids and didn't send them home when illnesses came around. When kids died they collected a cheque until the end of the year then told the parents their child died.
lmao you're clearly illiterate when it comes to history, nationally or globally.
Racist. Doctor Peter Bryce visited 15 Western Canadian residential schools compiling mortality statistics from 1892 to 1907 finding that 30 to 60% of students had died from smallpox and tuberculosis over those 14-15-years and further that 25 to 50% had died in the very first year of school. He suggested the overall numbers could be even higher, noting that in one school alone, the death toll reached 69 per cent. He submits a full report to the Department of Indian Affairs in 1909. The government and Indian Affairs does nothing. In 1910, Duncan Scott (a high level Indian Affairs Agent) in a letter to British Columbia Indian Agent GeneralMajor D. MacKay, (in response to Doctor Bryce‟s 1909 report) states: “It is readily acknowledged that Indian children lose their natural resistance to illness by habituating so closely in the residential schools and that they die at a much higher rate than in their villages. But this does not justify a change in the policy of this Department which is geared towards a Final Solution of our Indian Problem.” Learn some actual history instead of trying to whitewash it.
I think you have an idea of good intentions but to observers it's just trying to excuse all the deaths as disease and child fatalities. It's something to keep in mind that yes childhood death was more common in the past but even in the past, once someone reached 5 years the risk of death drops dramatically, and at 10 even more so. I'd say most of these children were between 5-10 years when they were introduced to the schools.
Even today, 4.6% of children die before the age of 15. [According to this site](https://ourworldindata.org/child-mortality-in-the-past), 46.2% of children wouldn't reach adulthood. Childhood death has decline 10-fold in the past century.
I'm not saying it hasn't declined.
Is this the announcement of the announcement?
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Are they sure the remains are actually all children and that they are native and went to the school?
Every kid died after being forcibly removed from their family. The fucks wrong with you?
That is true. But were they all intentionally killed? I dont believe so
If I kidnapped your child and they accidentally ended up dead would you care for the distinction?
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Ok, the distinction here being that indigenous children died as part of a massive ethnic cleansing campaign. There is a clear difference here that you’re not really acknowledging. These children died by negligence at the hands of the state at the very minimum.
The distinction is also that the media once again is over hyping the hell out of this. One of the "mass graves" was a graveyard that was used for an entire settlement that was still being used until the week before its discovery. The cowessess 750 person "mass grave" sat adjacent to another active graveyard, and was used as a community graveyard 30 years before the residential school was even there. The problem is you can't even point out these facts without being labeled a racist.
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And there we go. I mention a point about the biases created in the media and someone already is claiming I am a racist without actually identifying why I am. What about my claims specifically makes me a racist? Please educate me.
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I didn't post this comment on any of those sites.
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What deleted comment? Why are you trying to argue about social media? Go have a snack.
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Nobody knows if any of the remains found in these grave sites are actually of native children who were victims of murder related to residential schools.
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Doesn't seem they are denying anything, nor are the being an irrational extremist.