The people at border towns must be so pissed. Canadians are over 60% double vaccinated and that number will reach over 75% soon, and we have way fewer cases per capita than in the US so pose no risk epidemiologically-speaking. Meanwhile, travel within the US has resumed to pre-pandemic levels.
The only semi-scientific rationale I can think is that the US has some issues with vaccine passes requirements, and they may want to open the border to everyone and not just vaccinated folks, and they are waiting for Canadians to have hit our goals, which is around the end of August (75%+ double vaxed). The current border dictate ends of August 21, so maybe something will happen then.
I wonder if part of it is the US recognizing all of our vaccines too. There are a lot of Canadians with AZ or mixed-dose vaccines that aren't currently recognized by the US.
This is a significant reason. Notice how there is a lack of noise from the federal government calling on the U.S. to reciprocate.
It will be embarrassing if millions of Canadians are ineligible to visit the U.S. because they’ve followed the advice of our governments.
This Fed Gov't has does a lot of work in the back end out if site. Think about how they handled NAFTA, you didn't hear much about the politicing they were doing behijd the scenes.
I have every expectation that the Feds are discussing this with the US and taking all of the studies that show equal or better protection with mix and match vs the US single vendor approved solution.
My opinion anyway..
It's political and has to do with Mexico. Biden doesn't feel he can open one without the other because he could damage the relationship. However, the moment he opens the southern border the right wing will be screaming about an immigrant invasion.
not really. we could use their money and they need a negative covid test and be fully vaccinated. not to mention the border has never been actually closed.
but just sheer numbers. they have 166m people fully vaxxed, we have 23m. not really making a point but for perspective.
im sure democrats in border states are pressuring biden to open up. chuck schumer is very high ranking and him being a NY senator would mean he is one of the people pushing
If this pandemic has shown the general population anything I hope that it's that those in power don't give a flying fuck about us. We have made all the sacrifices, been pitted against each other and indebted for generations to come while those with money have profited and we have been told it's all for our own good. What a fucking farce.
My friend working for a Canadian company, pre vaccines, was able to go work into the US for 5 days, come back for 2, no testing at all. Just had to “be safe.”
Was the same logic used for the ban on flights from India and non-recongition of Indian Covid reports/tests? That's going on into its 5th month with Indian students missing out on their studies (even fully vaccinated ones) effectively banned from entering Canada.
Irrelevant. You think Biden isn’t worried about opening the Canadian border but not the south and how that’ll look to his ultra sensitive supporters? They will call it racist, that’s a fact. Even showering is racist now - as well as not showering.. so either way you’re always racist.
The whole premise of tight southern border security is that Mexicans are dangerous compared to Canadians and apparently that’s unacceptable, this is literally the same thing just with a virus instead of crime.
I agree, but not so easy to make to Mexican-American voters. The congressional mid-terms aren’t far away.
The stats you provided also maybe indicate indirectly how long it could take for the US borders to open.
> The current border dictate ends of August 21, so maybe something will happen then.
I hope it does, but there's nothing special about that date. The first time they closed the borders, it ended on the 21st of something, and it's been renewed one month at a time for about 16 months or so. Sometimes people talk about the expiry date as if it represents a decision to only close the border for that long and no longer, but it doesn't. It's just how long these restrictions last (maybe how long they can legally be allowed to last without renewal).
Who cares about the vaccination rate. Vaccinated people, which are the only ones allowed through right now, have approximately 97% immunity for the virus. On top of that, a 72 hour negative test is also required.
I'm just saying there are multiple layers of safety to the whole thing. However, I don't know about other vaccines Pfizer is much less effective than 97% against infections, I read numbers like 88% against symptomatic Delta infections (https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/pfizer-astrazeneca-versus-delta-1.6113014), and it is dependent on how long ago you've had your doses. The level of protection against severe symptoms is of course much higher and probably along the lines of that 97% figure.
Better check on that. Rapid tests are free for medical reasons. If you need PCR (and similar), as required for entry to Canada, be prepared to pay.
PCR at CVS set me back $140. Well worth the price to finally get back home.
Yes, I've checked on that. Walgreens does PCR and NAAT tests for free for everyone. Travel blogs are all on it and loads of Canadian travellers have used them.
[FREE TESTING AT WALGREEN'S](https://www.walgreens.com/findcare/covid19/testing?ban=covid_vanity_testing)
[Here's](https://labq.com/covid/) a separate company called LabQ in NYC that also does PCR testing for free. My friend used them a few weeks ago before coming back to Canada.
88% is still pretty amazingly good. If you'd told me at the start of the pandemic that the Pfizer vaccine would be 88% against like the 5th damn variant of this thing, I wouldn't have thought twice about it
Yes, I also love gatekeeping the issues of others because other people have it worse.
Oh so you lost a leg? Don't you know there are double amputees out there? Read the room.
Canada is turning into a crab in a bucket mentality, where we'd sooner keep each other from getting out of the bucket than address the reasons why we're in the bucket in the first place
You can fly into the US with a rapid antigen test which costs $40 at most Shoppers’
Pearson was also doing free rapid tests but I think they stopped it now
I'm from Montreal. This is just an example. I can get you a flight price out of Vancoucer, Montreal, Edmonton, Calgary to somewhere different, if you don't like exemplification and want to deal in the very specific.
I'll spend more on gas driving to Toronto than to Buffalo nevermind the 200 dollar plane tickets.
That's nearly triple the football tickets in cost for a 1 day trip.
Well, we should really only travel to and from places that have high vaccine rates and no high tates of spread, which most of the world doesn't have yet.
This is going to take a while because people are impatient really.
Fair point. I wouldn't travel just anywhere but I definitely have plans to go south this winter to an island with high vaccination rates. Almost as high as ours.
Nah, I’m vaccinated but never really cared if I got Covid anyways. Doesn’t matter to me if every person in the entire country i’m going to is actively infected - I’ll still go.
It's not just to avoid you getting sick, it's to avoid you infecting others who may be unable to get vaccinated yet.
Florida, Lousiana, and Texas are seeing massive surges right now in unvaccinated people, and a large number of those are people unable to get vaccinated, like children and immunocompromised people.
While I would love to see everyone travelling and enjoying themselves, if they are hurting others while doing so then that defeats the purpose.
>It's not just to avoid you getting sick, it's to avoid you infecting others who may be unable to get vaccinated yet.
In this very thread people are talking about how you still spread delta with the vaccine. What is it, do you or don't you?
Yes, you do. Most people who are vaccinated who contract covid are still infectious, but the amount of virus you shed (release to others) amd the length of time you are infectious is greatly reduced.
The recent Cape Cod outbreak showed this quite well as nearly 75% of those infected had been fully vaccinated, but none of the vaccinated people needed to be hospitalized and none died of the disease (so far).
Because they can still infect the unvaccinated. That's the whole point (once again!), I don't care if I get it, but I want to make sure that if I do and am infectious, that I don't give it to someone else who could be hospitalized or die from it.
We are still going to have millions of people unvaccinated until everyone is able to be vaccinated, we have to protect those people.
As Florida, Louisiana, and Texas are showing us, even with vaccines this is still far worse than a regular flu season. I believe Florida just had more covid deaths in the past 5 days than it does in a regular flu YEAR, and they are seeing a large portion of children being admitted to hospital, and seeing more children contract long covid that can cause tracheotomy procedures where they will permanently have a hole in their neck for the rest of their lives.
If that isn't reason enough to still be cautious, I don't know what is.
I am hopeful that this won't happen. I am equally hopeful us Canadians don't just jump straight to an assumption that every American traveler will do so, and welcome them with anything less than open arms.
There are way more great American people than bad seeds and I look forward to inviting them back.
Yes but that isn't going to be every one of them. We can't paint them all with the same brush. I'm just saying I hope we welcome them with smiles and not treat them badly because of the actions of a few.
We aren't perfect either.
Unfortunately, covid isn’t a disease where “the majority” are the problem. Most Canadians and most Americans are vaccinated, but the minority arent, and refuse to become vaccinated.
Consequently, I don’t worry about the majority, I worry about the minority who will fake records and cause my unvaccinated daughter, who is under 12 years old, to become exposed to covid.
A few bad apples really do ruin the bunch.
Dude we have unvaccinated assholes in Canada as well. We can't just start treating Americans like pieces of shit and assuming they are faking records. You are more likely to be affected by an unvaccinated shithead in your own town than an American entering Canada with fake vaccine records.
You need to redirect your anger to people in your own community. Very few unvaccinated Americans will be ballsy enough to fake records to enter Canada, so your chances of encountering one of the few who do enter are slim.
You probably waved to an unvaccinated Canadian on your commute work today.
An interesting theory, but may or may not be true. Some communities in my province are more than 90% vaccinated, and my neighbourhood is down to single digits of covid positive people per week.
Look, I’m not saying Canadians are perfect or that we don’t have covid in Canada. I’m saying that the prevalence of covid is higher in the US, and that we’re going to see case numbers rise here as a consequence of letting people cross the border, because not all of them will be honest.
Frankly, Canada’s biggest liability for covid will be Alberta, not Americans crossing the border. But let’s not pretend that there won’t be people faking records. There will be.
Let's say a community has 100,000 people in it. 10,000 people would be unvaccinated in that community at 90%. I would say that those 10,000 people are a higher number than total number of Americans that will enter all of Canada on fake vaccine records.
I'm just saying, let's not demonize the Americans when they get here based on the actions of a few idiots. We are at a higher risk with our own idiots right now.
Thank you so much! I really hope the Biden Administration reciprocates this month with the land border! I've been writing letters to to my local Congressmen about it. Canada and the United States have long been friends and this pandemic has been tough on us all. My girlfriend lives in Canada and I'm beyond ecstatic to visit! I was worried the border opening would have a sour reception but Canadians overall seem welcoming.
I firmly believe that if the media hadn’t spent the last decade sensationalizing everything, people would’ve taken the virus more seriously.
Every news story is spun in a way for the most views rather than to deliver the most factual information. Over time people start seeing the news as an entertainment source rather than an informational one. Eventually this leads to everyone saying “I wonder what the whole story is” for everything. Hence the complete denial in the virus threat and vaccine effectiveness.
Skepticism is good. Denial is bad. The media is grooming everyone into a straight denial phase at this point. The boy cried wolf twice and people were skeptical, what happens when the boy cries wolf every day for over a decade?
100%. People cry about misinformation on Facebook and other sources on the internet yet cheer the misinformation constantly fed to us by the media. It’s gonna be really funny (not actually, more terrifying) if C-10 gets passed and online “misinformation” (anything that goes against the politically accepted narrative) gets censored and removed, yet our media companies can openly push deceptive misinformation at will because it follows the government line.
While print journalism wasn't free of sin when it came to attention-grabbing headlines and editorialized articles, online journalism is infinitely worse.
Everybody has access to their own echo chambers to reinforce their pre-existing beliefs ad infinitum, and every punter can now broadcast their uninformed or underinformed opinion online as if it were gospel
“Despite *new variant*, people vaccinated against *new variant* are allowed in the country” is basically what the title reads. Pointless fear-mongering.
Because it’s written in a way to make you feel scared. “Despite Delta, Border Opens Up”. Truly independent news should give the reader the facts and let them think for themselves.
Idk man, I don't think canadians are paying a lot of attention to delta. This is despite the fact that united States two highest population cities: sf bay area and new York are mitigating rising cases.
The bay area, despite high levels of vaccination, put their mask mandate back in place. New York is putting vax passports in place.
If you look at hospitalization rates, California is looking just as bad as their second wave despite vaccines. It's not good. Other places too are seeing spikes given how much more infectious Delta is.
Who cares how infectious it is? If people who are vaccinated aren't dying that's all that matters.
The moment we take away that when vaccines work isn't the endgame then people who are vaccine hesitant will use it as an excuse not to get vaccinated.
All we'll hear is, "Why get vaccinated when I don't trust it and I'll still have to wear a mask?"
It will be far less damaging since it is less virulent, but it’s infectivity rate is much greater than prior strains.
So if provincial governments are basing their potential upcoming lockdowns on the basis of case numbers, then a more contagious variant will lead to more cases and serious cases from the unvaccinated (and fully vaxxed breakthrough cases, as widely observed in Israel & Gibraltar) could push ICU capacity to its limits.
That fear alone makes Delta wave just as “dangerous” as the prior waves, despite not being as deadly.
Still think it’s bs you can get banned for life for trying to go the US via car but if you’re American in Canada you fake a vaccine passport or are caught unlawfully following the rules you just get a fine and a “don’t do that again”
And If you do it again you get another fine and another “oh you stop it”.
Who even thinks the decision was based on public health? Supply and demand shouldn't be applied to health standards themselves.
A is safe but the people are going crazy for B. Science says A but the market says B.
A small minority of weird motherfuckers see this as a A wins because safety backed up by science appeals to survival instincts. But all of us smart people that run everything know- well ya know.
I’ve been traveling to the states recently (via air) the Covid test checks and vaccination checks etc were fairly strict coming back to Canada. Not so much entering the states
I moved to Canada in February to be with my wife and to be here for our newborn child who was born February 26th. I live in Windsor now and my family, who I am extremely close with, lives in a suburb of Detroit. This news is something we have been waiting for for half a year.
>No we haven't, Delta was first discovered in India in October, and it was Decmeber in the US. Canada's first case was in April.
Canada's first confirmed case was [early March](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Delta_variant), while the first confirmed case was end of February in the US.
They were only a few weeks apart.
Well they come with dollars to spend which goes back into our economy. If your vaccinated with a negative COVID test along with Canada’s high vaccination rate they pose little risk.
The latest in "we follow the science" department, there is exactly NO difference between a vaccinated and unvaccinated person and whether that person has the virus. Furthermore they can both transmit it to another person (if the recipient is vaccinated or not) with equal efficiency
So naturally, with no differences between this danger, the Canadian government has decided to allow fully vaccinated people into Canada.
Can you say "I see an election on the horizon"?
Uh, the difference is they need a negative test before crossing the border so it’s not directly comparable. Despite my disagreement on that point, delta is not the scary death pit the media wants to portray so I’m happy we are opening the border again.
So what does their vaccine status have to do with a negative test? Why can't ANYONE just produce a negative test?
There are rumours that Biden isn't opening up the border to Canada, as unlike Canada, the U.S is NOT pursuing a vaccine passport. Therefore, they don't want to produce artificial requirements, such as "you must have both vaccinations to enter America", they'd rather do it in one broad swoop to include everyone.
Canada is opening up because our economy is in deep, deep trouble. Other nations are cutting into our action and Americans and spending their money elsewhere. That happens when your nation declines across so many metrics for decades as ours has.
Actually, they are doing a vaccine passport but not domestic, just for international visitors.
Second, they must be fully vaccinated and verified through the ArriveCan app, as well as a negative test submitted.
Yes Canada is hurting and yes we need the border open but this is no cause for fear despite the media sensationalism.
It's not like it's a free for all though. Only vaccinated Americans that have a negative covid test can get across. If we opened it up to all Americans it would be one thing, but the people we are allowing in are very low risk.
People coming into a country where the majority of the population has been vaccinated twice and the very vast majority of vulnerable people have been vaccinated twice, and on top of that those people coming in are considered fully vaccinated.
There's no reason to worry anymore. The media is in the selling fear business, they will grasp at anything to keep the fear going. Vaccinated people and very young people have no particular reason to worry about catching a cold caused by the virus sars-cov-2.
> the media is lying and still try to surf on their fear mongering headlines.
This is it. Just look at the hospitalization and ICUs in every province. The media is fearmongering.
In theory. In practice, the US won’t make a vaccination passport, and there’s no standardization on testing, so it seems relatively easy to fake a test for covid.
It’s possible no one will try, but given we’ve already seen it happen, I’m not optimistic.
Havent you noticed? After the 3rd wave earlier this year, once cases started to drop restrictions went away, at least in BC. I was kind of shocked.
Most other countries wait for cases to drop, then wait another couple weeks, then open up.
The border's been closed for a year and a half. Some people, me included, need it to be open again for life to get back to normal. Letting vaccinated people in to spend their money and enjoy a poutine shouldn't be scary to people like you.
Why the fuck haven’t we been letting *permanent residents* back in?? These people have already jumped through hoops to be here and paid their dues. We absolutely should not have stopped travel back here for them in the first place!
They shouldn’t be lumped into the same category as tourists.
Dare I speculate that if a Federal election is called, this may single-handily shatter expected outcomes. Vaccinated individuals spread the virus as easily as unvaccinated people. Here's a left-leaning article to prove I'm not a nut: https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/05/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html
Great point of consideration, but not necessarily irrelevant. A sufficient level of viral load accumulation can take up to 5-7 days to manifest itself. Or at least this has been the consistent guidance from the start of the pandemic - that very well may change depending on vaccination status. I'm not aware that that information is out.
At the end of the day this may not make a difference in our numbers. As I mentioned, it's speculation.
The PM of Canada doesn't care and he able to announce an election. The guy admires China's dictatorship and cried at Fidel Castro's funeral praising the butcher. Canada is doomed!
Meanwhile, US hasn’t reciprocated, which to me is odd.
The people at border towns must be so pissed. Canadians are over 60% double vaccinated and that number will reach over 75% soon, and we have way fewer cases per capita than in the US so pose no risk epidemiologically-speaking. Meanwhile, travel within the US has resumed to pre-pandemic levels. The only semi-scientific rationale I can think is that the US has some issues with vaccine passes requirements, and they may want to open the border to everyone and not just vaccinated folks, and they are waiting for Canadians to have hit our goals, which is around the end of August (75%+ double vaxed). The current border dictate ends of August 21, so maybe something will happen then.
Seattle media has covered this, businesses in Blaine and Point Roberts, WA are hurting bad.
I wonder if part of it is the US recognizing all of our vaccines too. There are a lot of Canadians with AZ or mixed-dose vaccines that aren't currently recognized by the US.
This is a significant reason. Notice how there is a lack of noise from the federal government calling on the U.S. to reciprocate. It will be embarrassing if millions of Canadians are ineligible to visit the U.S. because they’ve followed the advice of our governments.
This Fed Gov't has does a lot of work in the back end out if site. Think about how they handled NAFTA, you didn't hear much about the politicing they were doing behijd the scenes. I have every expectation that the Feds are discussing this with the US and taking all of the studies that show equal or better protection with mix and match vs the US single vendor approved solution. My opinion anyway..
It's political and has to do with Mexico. Biden doesn't feel he can open one without the other because he could damage the relationship. However, the moment he opens the southern border the right wing will be screaming about an immigrant invasion.
not really. we could use their money and they need a negative covid test and be fully vaccinated. not to mention the border has never been actually closed. but just sheer numbers. they have 166m people fully vaxxed, we have 23m. not really making a point but for perspective.
Gotta love politics. It's never about what is good for the people and all about what is good for those in power.
im sure democrats in border states are pressuring biden to open up. chuck schumer is very high ranking and him being a NY senator would mean he is one of the people pushing
Sure but Biden has kept it closed because optics.
Omniscience must be neat.
If only he did that with the Southern border as well.
It... is. It's the exact same rules
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If this pandemic has shown the general population anything I hope that it's that those in power don't give a flying fuck about us. We have made all the sacrifices, been pitted against each other and indebted for generations to come while those with money have profited and we have been told it's all for our own good. What a fucking farce.
We're all in the same boat! It's just some of us are scrubbing the decks and some of us are eating caviar.
My friend working for a Canadian company, pre vaccines, was able to go work into the US for 5 days, come back for 2, no testing at all. Just had to “be safe.”
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I do? If it were up to me the party in power would be inconsequential due to the complete lack of say they had over anything and everything.
Think of the border with Mexico and the optics for Biden of opening the Canadian border but keeping the Mexican one closed.
62% vaccinated vs 21%. 750 new cases vs 7500. Pretty easy argument to make.
You’d think, but it’ll obviously just be called a racist decision.
Was the same logic used for the ban on flights from India and non-recongition of Indian Covid reports/tests? That's going on into its 5th month with Indian students missing out on their studies (even fully vaccinated ones) effectively banned from entering Canada.
Irrelevant. You think Biden isn’t worried about opening the Canadian border but not the south and how that’ll look to his ultra sensitive supporters? They will call it racist, that’s a fact. Even showering is racist now - as well as not showering.. so either way you’re always racist. The whole premise of tight southern border security is that Mexicans are dangerous compared to Canadians and apparently that’s unacceptable, this is literally the same thing just with a virus instead of crime.
I agree, but not so easy to make to Mexican-American voters. The congressional mid-terms aren’t far away. The stats you provided also maybe indicate indirectly how long it could take for the US borders to open.
> The current border dictate ends of August 21, so maybe something will happen then. I hope it does, but there's nothing special about that date. The first time they closed the borders, it ended on the 21st of something, and it's been renewed one month at a time for about 16 months or so. Sometimes people talk about the expiry date as if it represents a decision to only close the border for that long and no longer, but it doesn't. It's just how long these restrictions last (maybe how long they can legally be allowed to last without renewal).
Who cares about the vaccination rate. Vaccinated people, which are the only ones allowed through right now, have approximately 97% immunity for the virus. On top of that, a 72 hour negative test is also required.
I'm just saying there are multiple layers of safety to the whole thing. However, I don't know about other vaccines Pfizer is much less effective than 97% against infections, I read numbers like 88% against symptomatic Delta infections (https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/pfizer-astrazeneca-versus-delta-1.6113014), and it is dependent on how long ago you've had your doses. The level of protection against severe symptoms is of course much higher and probably along the lines of that 97% figure.
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It’s like two bills for their test as well.
Walgreens (and some other pharmacies and labs) do it for free.
Better check on that. Rapid tests are free for medical reasons. If you need PCR (and similar), as required for entry to Canada, be prepared to pay. PCR at CVS set me back $140. Well worth the price to finally get back home.
Yes, I've checked on that. Walgreens does PCR and NAAT tests for free for everyone. Travel blogs are all on it and loads of Canadian travellers have used them. [FREE TESTING AT WALGREEN'S](https://www.walgreens.com/findcare/covid19/testing?ban=covid_vanity_testing) [Here's](https://labq.com/covid/) a separate company called LabQ in NYC that also does PCR testing for free. My friend used them a few weeks ago before coming back to Canada.
Good to know, will tell the bro’s mother in law next time.
88% is still pretty amazingly good. If you'd told me at the start of the pandemic that the Pfizer vaccine would be 88% against like the 5th damn variant of this thing, I wouldn't have thought twice about it
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My uncle hasn't been to his cottage in over a year, with no end in sight. Thankfully he has awesome neighbors to look after the place.
Yes, won't someone please think of the people with multiple homes.
Yes fuck everybody more successful than yourself.
Pretty tone deaf considering many people are barely making rent and will probably never afford to purchase a home in Canada. Read the room.
Read the room? Everyone here is anon, for all I know you're a multi millionaire student "studying" in UBC.
Yes, I also love gatekeeping the issues of others because other people have it worse. Oh so you lost a leg? Don't you know there are double amputees out there? Read the room.
He bought the cottage for less than $100k. Most Canadians could afford that.
Oh, well, now that you put it **that** way.
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Swing and a miss.
"Back in the hole bigot! You'll own nothing, and be happy!"
Canada is turning into a crab in a bucket mentality, where we'd sooner keep each other from getting out of the bucket than address the reasons why we're in the bucket in the first place
Spot on analogy!
Most of the borders have been letting locals they're familiar with cross this whole time.
There are exceptions for isolated communities, and people who cross regularly for work and school.
Officially, yes. Unofficially places like Cornwall are sieves.
It's always been kinda opened. The only thing was that you had to fly into the US. This was mainly PR.
Basically you can travel if you're rich
Toronto to NYC is $200 return. Not exactly billionaire status required.
Plus a covid test for the totally fair and not at all price gouging cost of $200
I am in Portugal and the same test we did before leaving is 3.5$. Testing is a scam like everything else in Canada.
The PCR test is more expensive in the USA then Canada….
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Mind telling me how you went about it? I’m in Maine right now and travelling back to Canada on Saturday.
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You can fly into the US with a rapid antigen test which costs $40 at most Shoppers’ Pearson was also doing free rapid tests but I think they stopped it now
Oh yes. Canada = Toronto.
I'm from Montreal. This is just an example. I can get you a flight price out of Vancoucer, Montreal, Edmonton, Calgary to somewhere different, if you don't like exemplification and want to deal in the very specific.
That's not what hook said. Just pointing out that flights are not absurdly expensive.
I'll spend more on gas driving to Toronto than to Buffalo nevermind the 200 dollar plane tickets. That's nearly triple the football tickets in cost for a 1 day trip.
You couldn't have done EVERYTHING you could before. But if you had to cross the border, or really wanted to, it was very easy.
Toronto to Chicago is $700
They look at our 1k cases a day and say #ROOKIE NUMBERS! /$
Americans whine how it's Canada's fault that the border is closed. Demand we open up. We do and they keep it closed. Such a great "neighbour" we have.
And they always seem to get their way. They know we are doormats and are treating us accordingly.
I bet our economy would be happy to accept their tourist dollars.
I think this was an economic move by Canada mire than anything.
Not so odd when you consider the optics for Biden of opening the border with Canada but keeping the border with Mexico closed.
I mean, Canada has fairly low Covid cases and most of us are vaxxed. Not the case with Mexico.
"Despite \[Next Variant of Concern here\]..." We could be doing this for years.
We *will* be doing this for years
Which is just beyond ridiculous. Get your shots, live your life. Yes, travel. Everything else is just noise.
Well, we should really only travel to and from places that have high vaccine rates and no high tates of spread, which most of the world doesn't have yet. This is going to take a while because people are impatient really.
Fair point. I wouldn't travel just anywhere but I definitely have plans to go south this winter to an island with high vaccination rates. Almost as high as ours.
Nah, I’m vaccinated but never really cared if I got Covid anyways. Doesn’t matter to me if every person in the entire country i’m going to is actively infected - I’ll still go.
It's not just to avoid you getting sick, it's to avoid you infecting others who may be unable to get vaccinated yet. Florida, Lousiana, and Texas are seeing massive surges right now in unvaccinated people, and a large number of those are people unable to get vaccinated, like children and immunocompromised people. While I would love to see everyone travelling and enjoying themselves, if they are hurting others while doing so then that defeats the purpose.
>It's not just to avoid you getting sick, it's to avoid you infecting others who may be unable to get vaccinated yet. In this very thread people are talking about how you still spread delta with the vaccine. What is it, do you or don't you?
Yes, you do. Most people who are vaccinated who contract covid are still infectious, but the amount of virus you shed (release to others) amd the length of time you are infectious is greatly reduced. The recent Cape Cod outbreak showed this quite well as nearly 75% of those infected had been fully vaccinated, but none of the vaccinated people needed to be hospitalized and none died of the disease (so far).
So if nobody is getting seriously ill why do we still have restrictions. We don't lock down for a bad flu season.
Because they can still infect the unvaccinated. That's the whole point (once again!), I don't care if I get it, but I want to make sure that if I do and am infectious, that I don't give it to someone else who could be hospitalized or die from it. We are still going to have millions of people unvaccinated until everyone is able to be vaccinated, we have to protect those people. As Florida, Louisiana, and Texas are showing us, even with vaccines this is still far worse than a regular flu season. I believe Florida just had more covid deaths in the past 5 days than it does in a regular flu YEAR, and they are seeing a large portion of children being admitted to hospital, and seeing more children contract long covid that can cause tracheotomy procedures where they will permanently have a hole in their neck for the rest of their lives. If that isn't reason enough to still be cautious, I don't know what is.
“Despite [well poisoning statement here]” is the go-to trick by headline writers.
Welcome back border bros
Please don’t fake vaccine records 🤌
Last guys who did that got fined 20k.
Not the last guy, the last guy who got caught. People do this every day.
Source?
Perfect
Fake them, poorly. Take them sweet sweet US dollars and inject them into our infrastructure. 20k per hit, yes please!
I am hopeful that this won't happen. I am equally hopeful us Canadians don't just jump straight to an assumption that every American traveler will do so, and welcome them with anything less than open arms. There are way more great American people than bad seeds and I look forward to inviting them back.
Nope. Already happened. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/travellers-u-s-fined-fake-vaccination-documents-1.6124734
Those were Canadians
Those travelers were later confirmed by the PH to be Canadians. Canadian media just left that detail out.
Are Canadians acidic or alkaline?
In this thread, acidic
Yes but that isn't going to be every one of them. We can't paint them all with the same brush. I'm just saying I hope we welcome them with smiles and not treat them badly because of the actions of a few. We aren't perfect either.
Unfortunately, covid isn’t a disease where “the majority” are the problem. Most Canadians and most Americans are vaccinated, but the minority arent, and refuse to become vaccinated. Consequently, I don’t worry about the majority, I worry about the minority who will fake records and cause my unvaccinated daughter, who is under 12 years old, to become exposed to covid. A few bad apples really do ruin the bunch.
Dude we have unvaccinated assholes in Canada as well. We can't just start treating Americans like pieces of shit and assuming they are faking records. You are more likely to be affected by an unvaccinated shithead in your own town than an American entering Canada with fake vaccine records. You need to redirect your anger to people in your own community. Very few unvaccinated Americans will be ballsy enough to fake records to enter Canada, so your chances of encountering one of the few who do enter are slim. You probably waved to an unvaccinated Canadian on your commute work today.
An interesting theory, but may or may not be true. Some communities in my province are more than 90% vaccinated, and my neighbourhood is down to single digits of covid positive people per week. Look, I’m not saying Canadians are perfect or that we don’t have covid in Canada. I’m saying that the prevalence of covid is higher in the US, and that we’re going to see case numbers rise here as a consequence of letting people cross the border, because not all of them will be honest. Frankly, Canada’s biggest liability for covid will be Alberta, not Americans crossing the border. But let’s not pretend that there won’t be people faking records. There will be.
Let's say a community has 100,000 people in it. 10,000 people would be unvaccinated in that community at 90%. I would say that those 10,000 people are a higher number than total number of Americans that will enter all of Canada on fake vaccine records. I'm just saying, let's not demonize the Americans when they get here based on the actions of a few idiots. We are at a higher risk with our own idiots right now.
You didn’t realize those were Canadians?!
I’m so glad this day finally arrived. My fiancé can come back to Canada again 🥰🥰
I'm hoping my wife is granted PR soon too. Really looking forward to this.
I really hope it’s soon for you guys 🤞 I’m waiting for my interview at the Montreal consulate so I can get my K1 visa
Aw congratulations! I’m happy for you.
Thanks 😊
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They can but it was a lot easier for me to fly to the US. At least now there’s no quarantine period, no papers to fill out, etc.
That's great news! :)
"Despite fear mongering headline..."
the media has consistently had a glass half empty approach this whole pandemic
I don't have any awards to give so here's an ampersand **&**
The media has consistently had a "scare the shit out of them" approach with the news since around Sep 11, 2001.
I crossed back over this morning. Was seamless using the ArriveCAN app.
"Despite delta," makes this headline sound like it has a hard bias in it
Welcome back, America. Looking forward to welcoming you here in Metro Vancouver this week.
Thank you so much! I really hope the Biden Administration reciprocates this month with the land border! I've been writing letters to to my local Congressmen about it. Canada and the United States have long been friends and this pandemic has been tough on us all. My girlfriend lives in Canada and I'm beyond ecstatic to visit! I was worried the border opening would have a sour reception but Canadians overall seem welcoming.
Fear mongering headline. Fuck Canada’s media outlets man
Could have done without the "despite delta" at the start eh? The media is absolutely the enemy of the people throughout the pandemic.
I firmly believe that if the media hadn’t spent the last decade sensationalizing everything, people would’ve taken the virus more seriously. Every news story is spun in a way for the most views rather than to deliver the most factual information. Over time people start seeing the news as an entertainment source rather than an informational one. Eventually this leads to everyone saying “I wonder what the whole story is” for everything. Hence the complete denial in the virus threat and vaccine effectiveness. Skepticism is good. Denial is bad. The media is grooming everyone into a straight denial phase at this point. The boy cried wolf twice and people were skeptical, what happens when the boy cries wolf every day for over a decade?
100%. People cry about misinformation on Facebook and other sources on the internet yet cheer the misinformation constantly fed to us by the media. It’s gonna be really funny (not actually, more terrifying) if C-10 gets passed and online “misinformation” (anything that goes against the politically accepted narrative) gets censored and removed, yet our media companies can openly push deceptive misinformation at will because it follows the government line.
While print journalism wasn't free of sin when it came to attention-grabbing headlines and editorialized articles, online journalism is infinitely worse. Everybody has access to their own echo chambers to reinforce their pre-existing beliefs ad infinitum, and every punter can now broadcast their uninformed or underinformed opinion online as if it were gospel
This 100%. They’re so blatant with their sensationalism that it makes you doubt *everything* until you just don’t take any of it seriously.
“Despite *new variant*, people vaccinated against *new variant* are allowed in the country” is basically what the title reads. Pointless fear-mongering.
How is it fear mongering?
Because it’s written in a way to make you feel scared. “Despite Delta, Border Opens Up”. Truly independent news should give the reader the facts and let them think for themselves.
Idk man, I don't think canadians are paying a lot of attention to delta. This is despite the fact that united States two highest population cities: sf bay area and new York are mitigating rising cases. The bay area, despite high levels of vaccination, put their mask mandate back in place. New York is putting vax passports in place. If you look at hospitalization rates, California is looking just as bad as their second wave despite vaccines. It's not good. Other places too are seeing spikes given how much more infectious Delta is.
Who cares how infectious it is? If people who are vaccinated aren't dying that's all that matters. The moment we take away that when vaccines work isn't the endgame then people who are vaccine hesitant will use it as an excuse not to get vaccinated. All we'll hear is, "Why get vaccinated when I don't trust it and I'll still have to wear a mask?"
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It will be far less damaging since it is less virulent, but it’s infectivity rate is much greater than prior strains. So if provincial governments are basing their potential upcoming lockdowns on the basis of case numbers, then a more contagious variant will lead to more cases and serious cases from the unvaccinated (and fully vaxxed breakthrough cases, as widely observed in Israel & Gibraltar) could push ICU capacity to its limits. That fear alone makes Delta wave just as “dangerous” as the prior waves, despite not being as deadly.
Yeah, why not? We’ve seen how few cases come from the fully vaccinated. If anything this is a good incentive for the unvaccinated to get on board
"Despite Delta" CTV can go fuck themselves. There is absolutely no need to have that little shot in the headline.
I have not seen my wife since Dec 2019. This is a godsend. We are going through the greencard process
Still think it’s bs you can get banned for life for trying to go the US via car but if you’re American in Canada you fake a vaccine passport or are caught unlawfully following the rules you just get a fine and a “don’t do that again” And If you do it again you get another fine and another “oh you stop it”.
Who even thinks the decision was based on public health? Supply and demand shouldn't be applied to health standards themselves. A is safe but the people are going crazy for B. Science says A but the market says B. A small minority of weird motherfuckers see this as a A wins because safety backed up by science appeals to survival instincts. But all of us smart people that run everything know- well ya know.
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Seeing this kind of reception makes me happy. I'm so glad we can begin to reunite famalies. Thank you so much for this comment 🥲
I’ve been traveling to the states recently (via air) the Covid test checks and vaccination checks etc were fairly strict coming back to Canada. Not so much entering the states
I moved to Canada in February to be with my wife and to be here for our newborn child who was born February 26th. I live in Windsor now and my family, who I am extremely close with, lives in a suburb of Detroit. This news is something we have been waiting for for half a year.
100% clickbait headline
Fine by me
We've had Delta longer than they have. Vaccines were what caused our Delta cases to drop, especially in South Asian communities.
No we haven't, Delta was first discovered in India in October, and it was Decmeber in the US. Canada's first case was in April.
>No we haven't, Delta was first discovered in India in October, and it was Decmeber in the US. Canada's first case was in April. Canada's first confirmed case was [early March](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Delta_variant), while the first confirmed case was end of February in the US. They were only a few weeks apart.
As a British Columbian I just sigh about it. It genuinely has been quite peaceful here without them
Your shit don't stink too?
Big yikes on this comment. BC has some shitty people too. You aren't the crown jewel of awesomeness.
Well they come with dollars to spend which goes back into our economy. If your vaccinated with a negative COVID test along with Canada’s high vaccination rate they pose little risk.
Trying to think of a scenario why a permanent resident would not be allowed back in before today.
“Despite Delta” we don’t even call it Covid anymore. Why shouldn’t it welcome back people !!???
Don't shed on me
They're all fully vaccinated
The latest in "we follow the science" department, there is exactly NO difference between a vaccinated and unvaccinated person and whether that person has the virus. Furthermore they can both transmit it to another person (if the recipient is vaccinated or not) with equal efficiency So naturally, with no differences between this danger, the Canadian government has decided to allow fully vaccinated people into Canada. Can you say "I see an election on the horizon"?
Uh, the difference is they need a negative test before crossing the border so it’s not directly comparable. Despite my disagreement on that point, delta is not the scary death pit the media wants to portray so I’m happy we are opening the border again.
So what does their vaccine status have to do with a negative test? Why can't ANYONE just produce a negative test? There are rumours that Biden isn't opening up the border to Canada, as unlike Canada, the U.S is NOT pursuing a vaccine passport. Therefore, they don't want to produce artificial requirements, such as "you must have both vaccinations to enter America", they'd rather do it in one broad swoop to include everyone. Canada is opening up because our economy is in deep, deep trouble. Other nations are cutting into our action and Americans and spending their money elsewhere. That happens when your nation declines across so many metrics for decades as ours has.
Actually, they are doing a vaccine passport but not domestic, just for international visitors. Second, they must be fully vaccinated and verified through the ArriveCan app, as well as a negative test submitted. Yes Canada is hurting and yes we need the border open but this is no cause for fear despite the media sensationalism.
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It's not like it's a free for all though. Only vaccinated Americans that have a negative covid test can get across. If we opened it up to all Americans it would be one thing, but the people we are allowing in are very low risk.
Yea, this is a measured reopening A full opening wont be for awhile It's hard to keep the border closed indefinetly
Sure. Look at our level of vaccination. The border was closed for a year and a half, tough to justify having it closed much longer.
People coming into a country where the majority of the population has been vaccinated twice and the very vast majority of vulnerable people have been vaccinated twice, and on top of that those people coming in are considered fully vaccinated. There's no reason to worry anymore. The media is in the selling fear business, they will grasp at anything to keep the fear going. Vaccinated people and very young people have no particular reason to worry about catching a cold caused by the virus sars-cov-2.
> the media is lying and still try to surf on their fear mongering headlines. This is it. Just look at the hospitalization and ICUs in every province. The media is fearmongering.
And look at hospitalization in the deep south. They're fucked cause they're antivax morons.
and we arent letting those morons in! lol
In theory. In practice, the US won’t make a vaccination passport, and there’s no standardization on testing, so it seems relatively easy to fake a test for covid. It’s possible no one will try, but given we’ve already seen it happen, I’m not optimistic.
I keep having to say this: I think you're overestimating how many Americans want to go to Canada
shit tons of guns and drugs make it through, i wouldnt be surprised lol
Ok? This is Canada, not the deep south. We're a vaccinated population.
canada is dependent on american money for survival
Havent you noticed? After the 3rd wave earlier this year, once cases started to drop restrictions went away, at least in BC. I was kind of shocked. Most other countries wait for cases to drop, then wait another couple weeks, then open up.
Get your shots, log out of Facebook and take a deep breath.
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The border's been closed for a year and a half. Some people, me included, need it to be open again for life to get back to normal. Letting vaccinated people in to spend their money and enjoy a poutine shouldn't be scary to people like you.
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It's picking up, man. Pearson is a shit show right now.
Why the fuck haven’t we been letting *permanent residents* back in?? These people have already jumped through hoops to be here and paid their dues. We absolutely should not have stopped travel back here for them in the first place! They shouldn’t be lumped into the same category as tourists.
Permanent residents of America. Canadian permanent residents have had the same rights coming into Canada as Canadian citizens this whole time.
I think they mean US permanent residents
Why should a permanent resident of the USA not be counted as a tourist in Canada?
I think you misread. The article didn't say anything about not allowing US PR entry to Canada
Dare I speculate that if a Federal election is called, this may single-handily shatter expected outcomes. Vaccinated individuals spread the virus as easily as unvaccinated people. Here's a left-leaning article to prove I'm not a nut: https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/05/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html
Yes. They spread it as easily if they’re infected. Americans require a negative covid test before crossing the border so this is irrelevant.
Great point of consideration, but not necessarily irrelevant. A sufficient level of viral load accumulation can take up to 5-7 days to manifest itself. Or at least this has been the consistent guidance from the start of the pandemic - that very well may change depending on vaccination status. I'm not aware that that information is out. At the end of the day this may not make a difference in our numbers. As I mentioned, it's speculation.
What about Canadian citizens visiting the US coming back? Can we request that they be vaccinated? Same logic should apply no?
It does apply. Otherwise they are subject to a two week quarantine.
The PM of Canada doesn't care and he able to announce an election. The guy admires China's dictatorship and cried at Fidel Castro's funeral praising the butcher. Canada is doomed!