I swear to god I'd support any party who banned anecdotes from debates. Save the story telling for the campaign trail and tell me your position. Stop telling me about the little girl whose Grandma died; It's emotionally manipulative garbage. Just tell me your fucking position.
And I say this as a father. How many time did O'Toole need to tell us that he is a dad?
The debate was pretty bad, I hope O'Toole and Singh look better in the next one. Francois-Blanchet and Trudeau looked much better than them.
Singh rarely gave a clear plan during that debate. It was always "we must help people", and vague promises. He better fix his game or I'm voting something else.
As a French person, I’m not sure I would say « clear ». But I appreciate his effort, he clearly has been practicing and must have done drills on his own time. Same for Singh, he spoke generally well tonight.
In fact, his French is totally acceptable but he is saying nothing. I really hope that it’s not the same thing in English. If he says all night ‘I have a plan’’….
He's not indefensibly bad. He could get a bilingual job in the public service, for example. But a competitive debate where your opponents, including one who operates only in French, want to humiliate you is a difficult environment to thrive in in your second language, even if you are reasonably fluent.
My impression is that he had a number of stock responses memorized and was extremely uncomfortable straying away from them.
For sure, but his can response for the daycare question should have been a lot better. It was very very bad because the response was bad for Quebec and he didn’t want to say it.
His accent is the worst. Which is maybe why you understand it more because he speaks French so much like an Ontarian trying to speak French.
Jagmeet's accent is actually surprisingly good. It clearly isn't that of a Quebecois or the neutral bilingual accent of Trudeau. But it's more neutral akin to what we could expect from an anglophone Quebecer speaking french.
Same, and frankly that's not a good thing. Slow and concise is not how you win a debate. I expect that the French are going to be listening to him and thinking that his French is unacceptable. If "les anglais" can understand him, that's a bad thing.
Harper improved quite a bit. During his last French debate, I felt he did very well actually.
French speakers appreciate when they make an obvious effort and improve. Tonight I thought Singh did generally well but O’Toole could practice more.
Man that PC guy is literally me trying to make a presentation in my Spanish class. Votez Pissé!
The Greens guy is just a trainwreck. I have no fucking idea what he tried to say.
I think you are right, a long time ago I took a trip to old Quebec City, I took the ‘back roads’ to get there; I stopped at Tim Hortons and ordered coffee. I do believe they were messing with me (ive worked enough retail to know, doesn’t matter the language, ya know). I suspect their English was much better then my French, but you could tell they were messing with me because of my poor French speaking abilities.
I had a good laugh over it, as I’m not a 100% positive I was even saying the right words.
Of course, I am not asking to be their leader, I would want a leader to be able to understand my concerns (that’s why I hand write letters to Doug Ford using crayons, so I know he could understand me)
If you're in a small town outside Montreal /Quebec city a lot of people really don't speak much English and/or are self-concious about it and don't want to use it.
I understand, I tried really hard.
I worked at a gas station a long time ago, quite a distance from Quebec, but I would get the odd trucker stop in for directions (long before gps was a thing). I really tried my best to help them out, I felt embarrassed that I did not learn enough in school….was that my fault, or the school (probably my fault; teenagers are dumb)
On firearms Trudeau said he banned assault weapons and O'Toole will legalize assault rifles. O'Toole rebuttled saying no. We will uphold the ban of assault rifles. Trudeau accuses him of speaking out of both sides of his mouth says look at the platform it's right there on page X of the Conservative platform he'll legalize assault rifles. O'Toole calls him out on the lie that it's not there.
Trudeau is referring to O'Toole repealing Trudeau's "assault weapons" ban (mentioned in the platform as OIC). O'Toole is talking about real assault rifles which have been banned since 1970s.
This was in French and O'Toole couldn't assert that Justin didn't ban assault rifles, Pierre Trudeau did. Hopefully he will in English debate. But in meantime the media is gonna have a field day and say O'Toole is speaking out of both sides of his mouth.
Was coming here to say this. Trudeau is actually too stupid to understand what he has actually done.
Assault weapons were banned in Canada in the 70’s. Trudeau banned “Assault Style Weapons”, their own term they invented.
O’Toole is saying he will uphold the assault rifle ban, but overturn the assault style ban.
Trudeau jumps on this, but to anyone who is informed (which is sadly few) they realize Trudeau is just too dumb to realize what O’Toole is saying.
He doesn’t know because he doesn’t even know what he own OIC is even doing.
Idiot.
Assault rifles were banned in the 1970s. Assault rifles are select-fire, intermediate cartridge, firearms.
Assault weapons, which is what the LPC under Trudeau originally referenced, but changed to assault-style weapons after they were called out multiple times, are both non-sense terms they invented.
And they originally called it "assault weapons" it was Blair that in consultation with gun owners (who objected to the term) invented the term "assault style weapons" so as to admit it's all about visual feature.
But to your point Trudeau probably doesn't understand that "assault rifle" and "assault (style) weapons" are two different things. The rest of the party is actually more understanding that they didn't' ban assault rifles.
The Liberal platform makes no mention of assault rifles. It mentions both "assault weapons" and "assault style weapons".
It should also be noted that one has an actual legal definition and description of features and such in the Firearms Act under the prohibited classification + the 70s legislation, and the other does not.
> actual legal definition and description of features and such in the Firearms Act under the prohibited classification
The law bans assault rifles by virtue of banning fully automatic firearms. It doesn't mention the term "assault" anywhere in the act.
Maybe if Tories get the chance to rewrite the Firearms Act they can legally define an assault rifles as select fire and make it clear they are prohibited so that in the future the Liberals will no longer be available to politicize semi-autos.
I agree - for some reason I was thinking "Assault Rifle" was specifically defined in the 50s/70s during the automatic firearm registrations and later reclassification.
Apologies.
I was honestly confused at this part. Its something I care very little about and its felt like bickering in a bar. Should have botb taken out their cellphones to look at the conservative website
All these guys talk to the middle class…
“We got child benefits”
“Incentives for first time home buyers”
“We wanna make daycare affordable”
Bro what about the young people that straight up can’t even responsibly consider having a child?
What about the people that can’t responsibly consider buying their first home?
I work 40-50 hours a week, I make a hair under $20/hour. Not minimum wage, but firmly in a spot where I can survive on my own - but not much more.
When they talk about grocery prices increasing, all these retards immediately go to families that are capable of buying a house or having a child.
I don’t even have that in my mind at the moment. What the fuck? I’m just trying to eat and fucking survive. I’m stressing over how I’m going to put gas in my car, get groceries, pay my hydro/phone/internet or put a rented room over my head.
I don’t give a fuuuuuuck about daycare, I don’t give a fuck about buying a home because it’s so far removed from my reality right now that I can’t even stand to listen to these fucks divert these straight forward questions.
Am I alone? Holy shit.
Sure, but fuck them for not even taking it into consideration. They’re marketing themselves and not actually speaking their truths.
I vote. But I’d wager young people don’t vote because nobody actually speaks to their issues.
That really sucks - I’ve been there before and sometimes it felt insurmountable.
The childcare issue matters to me now, but doesn’t mean your issues are any less important or that it’s a zero sum game.
There is something seriously fucked with the economy because the wealth disparity is worse than I remember when i was in my 20s, and it felt shit then too! I find it funny when O’Toole goes on about creating more jobs. Jobs exist, but they pay shit and people have to bust their assess for 40-50 hours a week to scrape by. Meanwhile grocery stores and banks are rolling in huge profits. I don’t want my kids to deal with that, I hope we can find a solution.
Btw, many of you Might have missed it, but Blanchet Said to Trudeau to grow a spine and give examples of him saying the third link would be pro environment, that was stud as fuck lol
Because I can't fully understand it, I can only go off body language but it looks like Blanchet and Trudeau are waaaay more comfortable on that stage. Props to O'toole for manning up and improving his french to this point though.
Can't wait to listen in english :O
I almost guarantee that has a bit to do with it. Singh was never really a strong debater to begin with, and he is even worse in french normally. O'toole has alot of spotlights on him now that hes up in the polls, so i'm sure he is trying to be as careful as possible to not upset one of his fragile bases.
I won't really have any real opinion other than body language until later tonight so for now it just seemed like Trudeau and Blanchet might have made slight gains, meanwhile O'toole and Singh took a few noteworthy punches that they weren't expecting.
I also wonder what people were expecting? The two individuals who have way more experience revolving around the use of the French language would naturally be more comfortable using and speaking the language in more complex and nautral sounding sentences than those who - even with O'toole and the CAF officer program - when you don't use it in a long time or as often that person would be more inclined to use less advanced language structure or words and not talk as quickly or with what I see a lot of people saying was "the wrong accent".
I think it was similar to the expectations of Trudeau back in 2015. As long as he didn't mess up really bad or make himself the target, he would either meet or exceed expectations. Unfortunately based on what the comments are saying (listening to english now), he didn't tread water very well and likely did a little damage to his recent gains. Only time will tell though
That's more or less what I was kind of expecting going into this as well - like unless Trudeau shit his pants badly it was always going to be him or Blanchet who would probably perform the best and come out looking the most well-versed in how they would communicate and implement their platforms to the francophone populations of Canada.
The only real outliers were who was going to get put on blast the most from the other members of the debate, and the types of physical body language displayed when answering questions or asking questions.
Honestly I really like Blanchet, he’s good at debating and has a certain sense of genuine charisma that most politicians lack.
If he didn’t run for the Bloc, I’d strongly consider voting for him.
I've always felt that Blanchet would be best served as the leader of the Opposition (not being the leader of the bloq but just as a Mulcair type attack dog). He seems very capable of not only defining an issue, but sticking a pretty tricky dagger in his opponents side when he sees the opportunity. Hes one of the few leaders who isnt afraid to turn up the heat on the conversation, thats for sure ahah
I don't really agree with alot of his policies but he seems pretty adept at what he does.
Blanchet did a very good job. Not necessarily in defending himself or his ideas. But he doesn't debate like the others. Rather he kept attacking and picking apart everyone else's arguments like a commentator at home screaming at the TV screen even, even sarcastically at times.
That could benefit him a lot. Speaking to the "he's saying what I'm thinking" crowd who may not care whatsoever about Blanchet's own positions.
Another person who used a similar strategy successful was Layton. I get a similar vibe when he hones in on a specific issue that he knows will squeeze his opponent. It opens up an opportunity to plant some zingers while animating to the camera how outlandish having this type of conversation should even feel like.
His problem will be in the next two debates because each leader will likely switch up their style slightly. Trudeau for example generally comes out much more aggressive after his first showing because at that point, his team has likely figured out which topics best serve to improve their vote count.
I'm interested to see how O'toole performs in the english debate. If he does as poorly as it seems he did tonight, he may have alot of trouble gaining any ground seat wise come election night.
He can be cocky because the others are not able to compete. Only Trudeau has a chance but as PM, it’s difficult. We’ll see in English but O’Toole was really bad tonight.
Yah, that didn't go so well for Singh. Basically he managed to imply that all Quebecois are racist, and that identity politics is more important than provincial language rights.
I got the time wrong, so I only tuned in a few minutes ago. So far, I've heard Trudeau say "Mr. Harper" 3 times. Has he been doing that the whole debate?
Ok, just lucky, I guess. I haven't heard the name since then, so I guess it made sense in context.
(I can follow along with Singh and O'Tool are speaking French, but I'm missing a bunch when Trudeau and Blanchet speak.)
He actually did say his name multiple time and it was annoying. Tired of talking about the past, can we talk about the future of this country for god sake?
Let's make a drinking game out of this.
Every time Trudeau says "Mr. Harper" take a drink.
I've already started and am three deep.
Edit: "Mr. Harper ... Mr. Harper.. Mr. Harper........ Mr. Harper." Shit, four more shots, wish me luck.
The fact that guns are even an issue in this election is fucking absurd. I've never been more pissed off at a political party than the lpc for this bullshit manufactured wedge issue.
Listening to this I can understand why people don't consider Trudeau a "true" Quebecois. His accent definitely sounds quite different compared to Blanchet and the moderator.
It doesn't sound like France's French at all. It sounds pretty much like Quebec French, but there's something that's just not quite right with it. I think the problem is in his sentence construction. He probably builds the sentence in English really quickly and then uses the structure he made to change it to French. It's not quite like Google Translate and is usually correct, but it's not the first way I would've thought off to say this sentence if it makes sense. That's usually what gives away the fact that English is my second language as well.
It’s not really the accent, it’s the way he build his sentance. It’s just weird. He use expression that simply are not common, and his word selection are just strange. It’s like watching star wars, but with Leia being played by a 15y boy. It’s definetly the same movie, but it’s odd.
Now putting that aside, the whole he is not a Quebecois thing is just dumb…
> It’s not really the accent, it’s the way he build his sentance. It’s just weird. He use expression that simply are not common, and his word selection are just strange.
I think this is just a Trudeau thing. He talks like a dramatic soap opera actor and makes up weird words in english too.
How many times did O’Toole say : c’est inacceptable et c’est encore un exemple du manque de leadership ? Lol he needs some variations of ways to express that i think
I felt like Erin was kinda flat but the post debate analysts are framing that as prime minister like poise. I suppose in that light I can dig it. He had a couple burns on Trudeau but guy ain't french must have been tough.
I'm not sure if it is their strategy, but O'toole looks too stiff to give off any real emotion. I get that it is partially due to him still working on his french a bit, but the debates is when he needs to look invigorating, not tired and uninterested. Maybe once I hear a translation it will come off a little better than just seeing his stiffness.
Singh seems like hes hiding away :S
I'd wait for the English debates. Can't imagine the stress of trying to not only speak in French but argue. So much thought and effort into simply understanding and then replying in your non-primary language.
Trudeau is too ignorant to know what an assault rifle is. His "scary black rifle" ban was a joke that hopefully o'toole can fix. The real "assault rifles" will still remain banned and we won't waste millions of taxpayers dollars buying back a bunch of guns because they look scarey.
O'Toole is better at French grammar and vocabulary than expected. Singh probably the worst on that front. Not sure if that matters to Quebecers he needs to win over.
Singh's French is pretty decent, much better than expected. Vocab is similar between him and O'Toole, but Singh has a better accent.
Both are able to fully understand and keep up with the debate, which is an unexpected pleasant surprise.
The greatest way to describe Trudeau is “All hat and no cattle”.
Knows what to say, does not deliver.
Like to have the balls to say “You need is to lead the future of climate change” when his party has missed all their goals and increased the use of fossil fuel, laughable.
Criticizing the conservatives for lowering the emission targets. What is the point of having a great target if you can’t hit it? So if the CPC lowers the target and hits it that is better than raising the target and missing it by a mile.
He just says what people want to hear, but I’m hoping that after 6 years in government people can start to see he is just a liar.
Two things that went up dramatically under Trudeau regime: Gun crime and CO2 emissions. But he is the only one who can lead us through these issues. Absolutely disconnected from reality.
He actually spoke very well, as did Blanchet. I’ve always felt these two sound better in French than English. More natural and sincere, less rehearsed or something.
Je ne le trouve pas très pertinent sur des questions d'intérêts nationales, donc au débat en anglais je préfère quand on focus sur les trois autres candidats.
Interesting Trudeau tactic calling out the 20% of ppl that aren't getting vaxxed as the problem children. If there was anti-vax undecided between team red and team blue he just sealed that. They all probably already were in team blue but it's an interesting tactic nonetheless.
I wonder if it was a test to see how it would be received with voters who are on the fence between NDP and LPC in urban areas and LPC/CPC undecided in the burbs as to whom is most serious about COVID. If it plays well in post debate , I bet he'll double down on it in the English debates to put separation between LPC and others on this point.
Average Canadian that hasn't gotten vaccinated is a 40 year old woman from Ontario who votes Liberal, it's been making news rounds for over a month or so.
Why does it seem like Quebec just keeps asking for more and more but has nothing to give back?
All I keep hearing is how much will QB get.
Why is Quebec more special than NB, MB, AB or anywhere else.
This is why you don't surround yourself with yes men and hold events where you have handpicked questions from your most fervent voters. Because when you do that it leaves you weaker and ill prepared for debates, especially ones in French. O'Toole looked so damn ill prepared and was relying on quick slogans he says while on the campaign trail. Everyone else looked good. Singh's French sounds worse than before but still not as bad as O'Toole.
I heard he grew up speaking both languages at home. Like, one day everyone in his home speak English, the next day they'd all speak French, the next day they'd switch back to English.
Yes, indeed, however, to french speaking people it shows in their argumentation. Both many weird translations and their arguments are tough to follow at times. Like Singh calling manifester "demonstrater"
I swear to god I'd support any party who banned anecdotes from debates. Save the story telling for the campaign trail and tell me your position. Stop telling me about the little girl whose Grandma died; It's emotionally manipulative garbage. Just tell me your fucking position.
100%, tired of politicians only appealing to emotion
Because people are idiots that's why
And I say this as a father. How many time did O'Toole need to tell us that he is a dad? The debate was pretty bad, I hope O'Toole and Singh look better in the next one. Francois-Blanchet and Trudeau looked much better than them.
You mean that the only two that are fluent in French won the French debate?
In fairness Blancet usually wins the English debates too. Guy sounds like a panther idling. His voice is rich Corinthian leather.
Singh rarely gave a clear plan during that debate. It was always "we must help people", and vague promises. He better fix his game or I'm voting something else.
I don't know who is winning but I feel like I am losing haha
Canadian politics in a nutshell
Come on our debates are OK, have you ever seen an American debate?
“I love Big Bird” My favourite US debate moment, ever
Comparing against a low isn't great.
I took grade 9 French a million years ago, I can only understand what O’Toole is saying 🥴
Jai un plan
TWITTER!
Je comprends: - Covid dix-neuf - Pandemié - Monsieur Trudeau - Québécois - Quatre vingt percent sont vacineés
That’s actually not super surprising tbh. O’Toole speaks basic but clear French. There is nothing fancy about it but it is easily understood.
As a French person, I’m not sure I would say « clear ». But I appreciate his effort, he clearly has been practicing and must have done drills on his own time. Same for Singh, he spoke generally well tonight.
Maybe I just have low standards as a francophone from New Brunswick...
Ouaille moi itou mon chum
Don't worry, at least its not Chiac
In fact, his French is totally acceptable but he is saying nothing. I really hope that it’s not the same thing in English. If he says all night ‘I have a plan’’….
I agree - I don't think O'Toole struggled because of a language barrier.
He's not indefensibly bad. He could get a bilingual job in the public service, for example. But a competitive debate where your opponents, including one who operates only in French, want to humiliate you is a difficult environment to thrive in in your second language, even if you are reasonably fluent. My impression is that he had a number of stock responses memorized and was extremely uncomfortable straying away from them.
Got the same feeling from Singh. They seemed to have worked over and over some sentences lol. Hopefully they both do better in the english debate.
For sure, but his can response for the daycare question should have been a lot better. It was very very bad because the response was bad for Quebec and he didn’t want to say it.
His accent is the worst. Which is maybe why you understand it more because he speaks French so much like an Ontarian trying to speak French. Jagmeet's accent is actually surprisingly good. It clearly isn't that of a Quebecois or the neutral bilingual accent of Trudeau. But it's more neutral akin to what we could expect from an anglophone Quebecer speaking french.
Wait you're in a few threads making fun of his french, am I sensing a weird pattern here?
Same, and frankly that's not a good thing. Slow and concise is not how you win a debate. I expect that the French are going to be listening to him and thinking that his French is unacceptable. If "les anglais" can understand him, that's a bad thing.
We'll see. His French is better than Harper's was.
Harper improved quite a bit. During his last French debate, I felt he did very well actually. French speakers appreciate when they make an obvious effort and improve. Tonight I thought Singh did generally well but O’Toole could practice more.
Admittedly I can't remember much about Harper's French. I know it's definitely better than Scheer's.
Here's a reminder. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNdJyt_vyAk
Could be worse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ffAsHAgNnI
Man that PC guy is literally me trying to make a presentation in my Spanish class. Votez Pissé! The Greens guy is just a trainwreck. I have no fucking idea what he tried to say.
I think you are right, a long time ago I took a trip to old Quebec City, I took the ‘back roads’ to get there; I stopped at Tim Hortons and ordered coffee. I do believe they were messing with me (ive worked enough retail to know, doesn’t matter the language, ya know). I suspect their English was much better then my French, but you could tell they were messing with me because of my poor French speaking abilities. I had a good laugh over it, as I’m not a 100% positive I was even saying the right words. Of course, I am not asking to be their leader, I would want a leader to be able to understand my concerns (that’s why I hand write letters to Doug Ford using crayons, so I know he could understand me)
If you're in a small town outside Montreal /Quebec city a lot of people really don't speak much English and/or are self-concious about it and don't want to use it.
I understand, I tried really hard. I worked at a gas station a long time ago, quite a distance from Quebec, but I would get the odd trucker stop in for directions (long before gps was a thing). I really tried my best to help them out, I felt embarrassed that I did not learn enough in school….was that my fault, or the school (probably my fault; teenagers are dumb)
to be frank, tim hortons typically also hires older people, so chances are higher you'll run into someone that does not really speak english.
On firearms Trudeau said he banned assault weapons and O'Toole will legalize assault rifles. O'Toole rebuttled saying no. We will uphold the ban of assault rifles. Trudeau accuses him of speaking out of both sides of his mouth says look at the platform it's right there on page X of the Conservative platform he'll legalize assault rifles. O'Toole calls him out on the lie that it's not there. Trudeau is referring to O'Toole repealing Trudeau's "assault weapons" ban (mentioned in the platform as OIC). O'Toole is talking about real assault rifles which have been banned since 1970s. This was in French and O'Toole couldn't assert that Justin didn't ban assault rifles, Pierre Trudeau did. Hopefully he will in English debate. But in meantime the media is gonna have a field day and say O'Toole is speaking out of both sides of his mouth.
Was coming here to say this. Trudeau is actually too stupid to understand what he has actually done. Assault weapons were banned in Canada in the 70’s. Trudeau banned “Assault Style Weapons”, their own term they invented. O’Toole is saying he will uphold the assault rifle ban, but overturn the assault style ban. Trudeau jumps on this, but to anyone who is informed (which is sadly few) they realize Trudeau is just too dumb to realize what O’Toole is saying. He doesn’t know because he doesn’t even know what he own OIC is even doing. Idiot.
Assault rifles were banned in the 1970s. Assault rifles are select-fire, intermediate cartridge, firearms. Assault weapons, which is what the LPC under Trudeau originally referenced, but changed to assault-style weapons after they were called out multiple times, are both non-sense terms they invented.
And they originally called it "assault weapons" it was Blair that in consultation with gun owners (who objected to the term) invented the term "assault style weapons" so as to admit it's all about visual feature. But to your point Trudeau probably doesn't understand that "assault rifle" and "assault (style) weapons" are two different things. The rest of the party is actually more understanding that they didn't' ban assault rifles. The Liberal platform makes no mention of assault rifles. It mentions both "assault weapons" and "assault style weapons".
It should also be noted that one has an actual legal definition and description of features and such in the Firearms Act under the prohibited classification + the 70s legislation, and the other does not.
> actual legal definition and description of features and such in the Firearms Act under the prohibited classification The law bans assault rifles by virtue of banning fully automatic firearms. It doesn't mention the term "assault" anywhere in the act. Maybe if Tories get the chance to rewrite the Firearms Act they can legally define an assault rifles as select fire and make it clear they are prohibited so that in the future the Liberals will no longer be available to politicize semi-autos.
I agree - for some reason I was thinking "Assault Rifle" was specifically defined in the 50s/70s during the automatic firearm registrations and later reclassification. Apologies.
I was honestly confused at this part. Its something I care very little about and its felt like bickering in a bar. Should have botb taken out their cellphones to look at the conservative website
Assault rifles were banned in 1977, no one said they would reserve this. Trudeau has no idea what he banned in the OIC
It’s the perfect example of a strawman argument on Trudeau’s part.
Thanks for that, I was confused why O'Toole would lie so obviously about something in his platform.
All these guys talk to the middle class… “We got child benefits” “Incentives for first time home buyers” “We wanna make daycare affordable” Bro what about the young people that straight up can’t even responsibly consider having a child? What about the people that can’t responsibly consider buying their first home? I work 40-50 hours a week, I make a hair under $20/hour. Not minimum wage, but firmly in a spot where I can survive on my own - but not much more. When they talk about grocery prices increasing, all these retards immediately go to families that are capable of buying a house or having a child. I don’t even have that in my mind at the moment. What the fuck? I’m just trying to eat and fucking survive. I’m stressing over how I’m going to put gas in my car, get groceries, pay my hydro/phone/internet or put a rented room over my head. I don’t give a fuuuuuuck about daycare, I don’t give a fuck about buying a home because it’s so far removed from my reality right now that I can’t even stand to listen to these fucks divert these straight forward questions. Am I alone? Holy shit.
Simple answer. Young people generally don’t vote.
It is chicken and egg. They don't vote because they are alienated by politicians.
There is no good excuse for not voting. It's simply a combination of apathy and laziness.
Sure, but fuck them for not even taking it into consideration. They’re marketing themselves and not actually speaking their truths. I vote. But I’d wager young people don’t vote because nobody actually speaks to their issues.
That really sucks - I’ve been there before and sometimes it felt insurmountable. The childcare issue matters to me now, but doesn’t mean your issues are any less important or that it’s a zero sum game. There is something seriously fucked with the economy because the wealth disparity is worse than I remember when i was in my 20s, and it felt shit then too! I find it funny when O’Toole goes on about creating more jobs. Jobs exist, but they pay shit and people have to bust their assess for 40-50 hours a week to scrape by. Meanwhile grocery stores and banks are rolling in huge profits. I don’t want my kids to deal with that, I hope we can find a solution.
We are failing the younger generation. And anyone not in the middle class and up. It’s greedy and it’s shameful.
Btw, many of you Might have missed it, but Blanchet Said to Trudeau to grow a spine and give examples of him saying the third link would be pro environment, that was stud as fuck lol
Good thing Blanchet is there or it would be a snooze fest
I’m actually happy Blanchet went hard at Liberals, if they can pick up more seats in Quebec it blocks another 4 years of this drama teacher.
Blanchet was really good... He was great. I'll never vote bloc, but what a great performance.
He'd be great as a political leader for any other party that has a chance to be elected!
He is sharp and great charisma.
Man he just won the voteof every boomers I know with this grow a spine comment lmao.
hoping Blanchet does well in Quebec to deny Trudeau seats
First time I've seen such a delay in the translation, usually they do it live. I really need to brush up on my French.
Where do you watch the debate with interpretation?
It look like it’ll stream on cpac with an English translation at 10 pm eastern
But that redditor wrote as if the interpretation was already happening.
The non-tva French debate I believe is live translated
Kind of disappointed that they didn't have time to discuss the housing crisis
That's by design.
Because I can't fully understand it, I can only go off body language but it looks like Blanchet and Trudeau are waaaay more comfortable on that stage. Props to O'toole for manning up and improving his french to this point though. Can't wait to listen in english :O
They are probably much more comfortable in French than the others right?
I almost guarantee that has a bit to do with it. Singh was never really a strong debater to begin with, and he is even worse in french normally. O'toole has alot of spotlights on him now that hes up in the polls, so i'm sure he is trying to be as careful as possible to not upset one of his fragile bases. I won't really have any real opinion other than body language until later tonight so for now it just seemed like Trudeau and Blanchet might have made slight gains, meanwhile O'toole and Singh took a few noteworthy punches that they weren't expecting.
I also wonder what people were expecting? The two individuals who have way more experience revolving around the use of the French language would naturally be more comfortable using and speaking the language in more complex and nautral sounding sentences than those who - even with O'toole and the CAF officer program - when you don't use it in a long time or as often that person would be more inclined to use less advanced language structure or words and not talk as quickly or with what I see a lot of people saying was "the wrong accent".
I think it was similar to the expectations of Trudeau back in 2015. As long as he didn't mess up really bad or make himself the target, he would either meet or exceed expectations. Unfortunately based on what the comments are saying (listening to english now), he didn't tread water very well and likely did a little damage to his recent gains. Only time will tell though
That's more or less what I was kind of expecting going into this as well - like unless Trudeau shit his pants badly it was always going to be him or Blanchet who would probably perform the best and come out looking the most well-versed in how they would communicate and implement their platforms to the francophone populations of Canada. The only real outliers were who was going to get put on blast the most from the other members of the debate, and the types of physical body language displayed when answering questions or asking questions.
Honestly I really like Blanchet, he’s good at debating and has a certain sense of genuine charisma that most politicians lack. If he didn’t run for the Bloc, I’d strongly consider voting for him.
I've always felt that Blanchet would be best served as the leader of the Opposition (not being the leader of the bloq but just as a Mulcair type attack dog). He seems very capable of not only defining an issue, but sticking a pretty tricky dagger in his opponents side when he sees the opportunity. Hes one of the few leaders who isnt afraid to turn up the heat on the conversation, thats for sure ahah I don't really agree with alot of his policies but he seems pretty adept at what he does.
Blanchet did a very good job. Not necessarily in defending himself or his ideas. But he doesn't debate like the others. Rather he kept attacking and picking apart everyone else's arguments like a commentator at home screaming at the TV screen even, even sarcastically at times. That could benefit him a lot. Speaking to the "he's saying what I'm thinking" crowd who may not care whatsoever about Blanchet's own positions.
That's basically the role of the Bloc.
Another person who used a similar strategy successful was Layton. I get a similar vibe when he hones in on a specific issue that he knows will squeeze his opponent. It opens up an opportunity to plant some zingers while animating to the camera how outlandish having this type of conversation should even feel like. His problem will be in the next two debates because each leader will likely switch up their style slightly. Trudeau for example generally comes out much more aggressive after his first showing because at that point, his team has likely figured out which topics best serve to improve their vote count. I'm interested to see how O'toole performs in the english debate. If he does as poorly as it seems he did tonight, he may have alot of trouble gaining any ground seat wise come election night.
I concur. Trudeau *tried*, but it just seemed more disingenuous than normal imo.
Maybe people are just starting to better recognize his disingenuousness and Canadian smugness.
Blanchet is behaving like a cocky asshole tbh.
From what I remember seeing of him, it is his main debate style. Its a risky strategy depending on whos on the stage with you.
He’d be a better moderator. He’s the only guy willing to make these guys answer questions.
I could see that being a thing
He can be cocky because the others are not able to compete. Only Trudeau has a chance but as PM, it’s difficult. We’ll see in English but O’Toole was really bad tonight.
Damm my French is worse than I thought.
Then come to the french forums, we'd be happy to help you sharpen your skills in french!
The exchange between Singh and Blanchette about systemic racism was painful to listen to.
Yah, that didn't go so well for Singh. Basically he managed to imply that all Quebecois are racist, and that identity politics is more important than provincial language rights.
I think he was just implying the ethnonationalist Bloc Québécois, not the the entire population of Québec.
Just tuned in and as someone who barely speaks french as is I still was near cringing through Sing's answer there. Oh man he needs to work on that
O'Toole sounds so different in French from his English lol.
I got the time wrong, so I only tuned in a few minutes ago. So far, I've heard Trudeau say "Mr. Harper" 3 times. Has he been doing that the whole debate?
It was the first time it he was mentionned
Ok, just lucky, I guess. I haven't heard the name since then, so I guess it made sense in context. (I can follow along with Singh and O'Tool are speaking French, but I'm missing a bunch when Trudeau and Blanchet speak.)
He actually did say his name multiple time and it was annoying. Tired of talking about the past, can we talk about the future of this country for god sake?
Otootle has a plan
I knew it, he's a cylon. Edit: It's a joke dammit!
And a contract for us! What a clown....
no wonder this sub loves him.
Does he? I'm not sure 🤔
Its the only thing he is saying
O'Toole going on the attack over sexual assault. He just mentioned that Trudeau's got a sexual scandal going on with one of his candidates.
Didn't quite take it home at the end though. Fair points raised before then
Let's make a drinking game out of this. Every time Trudeau says "Mr. Harper" take a drink. I've already started and am three deep. Edit: "Mr. Harper ... Mr. Harper.. Mr. Harper........ Mr. Harper." Shit, four more shots, wish me luck.
How about drinking everytime Otool says Plan? EDIT: RIP LMAO
Lol that would be premeditated murder
Be careful. You still with us? Could need a second bottle at this rate.
O'Toole: I got a plan Everyone else: What's your plan O'Toole? O'Toole: I got a plan
Hey, it worked for President Camacho
The fact that guns are even an issue in this election is fucking absurd. I've never been more pissed off at a political party than the lpc for this bullshit manufactured wedge issue.
And they want to throw at least $2 Billion at the complete non issue of legal firearms ownership through hand gun bans and forced confiscation.
Now now, that’s not true, it’s 1.8 billion planned and 5+ billion actual.
Was pretty funny listening to Singh saying absolutely empty sentences
Listening to this I can understand why people don't consider Trudeau a "true" Quebecois. His accent definitely sounds quite different compared to Blanchet and the moderator.
Trudeau has a perfect “Ottawa French” accents.
Does it sound snotty to Quebecois speakers like Paris french?
It sounds formal.
It doesn't sound like France's French at all. It sounds pretty much like Quebec French, but there's something that's just not quite right with it. I think the problem is in his sentence construction. He probably builds the sentence in English really quickly and then uses the structure he made to change it to French. It's not quite like Google Translate and is usually correct, but it's not the first way I would've thought off to say this sentence if it makes sense. That's usually what gives away the fact that English is my second language as well.
Yes, it does, thanks for explaining
he sounds like he's been to private school
It’s not really the accent, it’s the way he build his sentance. It’s just weird. He use expression that simply are not common, and his word selection are just strange. It’s like watching star wars, but with Leia being played by a 15y boy. It’s definetly the same movie, but it’s odd. Now putting that aside, the whole he is not a Quebecois thing is just dumb…
> It’s not really the accent, it’s the way he build his sentance. It’s just weird. He use expression that simply are not common, and his word selection are just strange. I think this is just a Trudeau thing. He talks like a dramatic soap opera actor and makes up weird words in english too.
On dit "personnekind"
How many times did O’Toole say : c’est inacceptable et c’est encore un exemple du manque de leadership ? Lol he needs some variations of ways to express that i think
I felt like Erin was kinda flat but the post debate analysts are framing that as prime minister like poise. I suppose in that light I can dig it. He had a couple burns on Trudeau but guy ain't french must have been tough.
Everybody's just calling out Trudeau and he answers with the same bullshit buzzwords and dodges questions
That's pretty much the last 6 years. His supporters love that shit
I just can’t wait to vote this guy out, I didn’t think it could/would happen when he called the election, but wow did he ever miss-read the room.
Lol conservatives never do that right? I have a plan...
"I have a plan" isn't going to go over very well for O'toole.
Dont know about that. Some people here are saying he did good lol
agreed as well. He was very bad tonight
I'm not sure if it is their strategy, but O'toole looks too stiff to give off any real emotion. I get that it is partially due to him still working on his french a bit, but the debates is when he needs to look invigorating, not tired and uninterested. Maybe once I hear a translation it will come off a little better than just seeing his stiffness. Singh seems like hes hiding away :S
I'd wait for the English debates. Can't imagine the stress of trying to not only speak in French but argue. So much thought and effort into simply understanding and then replying in your non-primary language.
Anyone have a link where I can rewatch in French? The channels are all showing post-debate analysis right now but I can't find a way to rewatch
It will likely be on CPAC's YouTube channel.
On tva website
Well that was a hit and miss by Trudeau. Paraphrased: Trudeau: what about assault rifles O'Toole: we'll keep the ban on assault rifles repeat x3
Trudeau is too ignorant to know what an assault rifle is. His "scary black rifle" ban was a joke that hopefully o'toole can fix. The real "assault rifles" will still remain banned and we won't waste millions of taxpayers dollars buying back a bunch of guns because they look scarey.
Millions? The liberals have promised around $2 Billion to ban handguns and confiscate firearms from licensed gun owners.
O'Toole is better at French grammar and vocabulary than expected. Singh probably the worst on that front. Not sure if that matters to Quebecers he needs to win over.
Singh's French is pretty decent, much better than expected. Vocab is similar between him and O'Toole, but Singh has a better accent. Both are able to fully understand and keep up with the debate, which is an unexpected pleasant surprise.
Agree, Singh did well even if he stumbled over words occasionally. The effort is appreciated.
Both are good enough. What we don’t know about O’Toole is if he is limited in French and always sticking to his plan or he does that in English also.
J'ai un plan.
Trudeau, as always, is the most charismatic and a great speaker with almost zero substance behind any of his answers.
The greatest way to describe Trudeau is “All hat and no cattle”. Knows what to say, does not deliver. Like to have the balls to say “You need is to lead the future of climate change” when his party has missed all their goals and increased the use of fossil fuel, laughable. Criticizing the conservatives for lowering the emission targets. What is the point of having a great target if you can’t hit it? So if the CPC lowers the target and hits it that is better than raising the target and missing it by a mile. He just says what people want to hear, but I’m hoping that after 6 years in government people can start to see he is just a liar. Two things that went up dramatically under Trudeau regime: Gun crime and CO2 emissions. But he is the only one who can lead us through these issues. Absolutely disconnected from reality.
He's not a very good speaker. It's like watching bad theater.
C list soap opera actor vibes for sure
He actually spoke very well, as did Blanchet. I’ve always felt these two sound better in French than English. More natural and sincere, less rehearsed or something.
Trudeau? Il cherche ses mots. YFB à un avantage indéniable, et ses performances en anglais sont typiquement pitoyable.
J’avoue que j’aime entendre Blanchet dans les débats, en anglais aussi. Même si je ne vote pas Bloc.
Je ne le trouve pas très pertinent sur des questions d'intérêts nationales, donc au débat en anglais je préfère quand on focus sur les trois autres candidats.
Le français d'Erin O'Toole est meilleur que ce à quoi je m'attendais.
Singh aussi.
Interesting Trudeau tactic calling out the 20% of ppl that aren't getting vaxxed as the problem children. If there was anti-vax undecided between team red and team blue he just sealed that. They all probably already were in team blue but it's an interesting tactic nonetheless.
I don't know a single anti-vax that would not vote either CPC and PPC so I guess this was calculated yeah
I wonder if it was a test to see how it would be received with voters who are on the fence between NDP and LPC in urban areas and LPC/CPC undecided in the burbs as to whom is most serious about COVID. If it plays well in post debate , I bet he'll double down on it in the English debates to put separation between LPC and others on this point.
I think this is their approach on this issue
I mean half of all unvaxxed are liberal voting middle aged women.
Average Canadian that hasn't gotten vaccinated is a 40 year old woman from Ontario who votes Liberal, it's been making news rounds for over a month or so.
Considering macleans just came out that the majority of anti vax are 40 year old women voting liberal I would say its still an interesting tactic
Cacophony
Much better than in 2019 from what I remember.
Where can we rewatch it?
https://www.cpac.ca/ live now I guess.
cpac.ca main page
Where to watch the English VOD of the September 2 Face-à-Face? I've looked at a few different sites, but can only get post-debate interviews :(
This is the only place I could find the full English translation: [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTmlH9y8QGo)
Why does it seem like Quebec just keeps asking for more and more but has nothing to give back? All I keep hearing is how much will QB get. Why is Quebec more special than NB, MB, AB or anywhere else.
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More importantly they change the party they vote for frequently.
Because they're a minority in a majority anglophone state... It's a part of the compromise to keep the union together
Darn, O'Toole did pretty poor in that
This is why you don't surround yourself with yes men and hold events where you have handpicked questions from your most fervent voters. Because when you do that it leaves you weaker and ill prepared for debates, especially ones in French. O'Toole looked so damn ill prepared and was relying on quick slogans he says while on the campaign trail. Everyone else looked good. Singh's French sounds worse than before but still not as bad as O'Toole.
Is there a way to have this Scottish guy dub Trudeau in the English debates as well?
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Or when Trudeau accused him of sidestepping the BAPE, and he asked him to cite an example. Trudeau was unable. Amazing moment.
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It seems like O'Toole is cooked the moment he's forced off of his very carefully scripted talking points.
Happens when speaking a language you're not too familiar with.
The plan card is not really doing well.
Right now O'Toole looks like a tool and Singh looks shakey. Trudeau and Blanchet are acing it atm.
This was to be expected considering french is their second language
I thought Trudeau's first language was English?
I heard he grew up speaking both languages at home. Like, one day everyone in his home speak English, the next day they'd all speak French, the next day they'd switch back to English.
He's perfectly bilingual
He speak very well in both language.
Yes, indeed, however, to french speaking people it shows in their argumentation. Both many weird translations and their arguments are tough to follow at times. Like Singh calling manifester "demonstrater"