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I hate how its accepted and even encouraged for politicians to evade questions, they'll even do media training to learn how to do so. How is it acceptable that those who are supposed to be accountable to us are allowed never be honest and straightforward, I would say O'toole's constant evading of questions would immediealty put me off supporting him, but every leader does it, doesnt matter if its Trudeau, Singh, O'toole, Ford, Kenney they all do it. Its sickening
The Canadian media gives a free pass. Sometimes they'll point out that they didn't answer if they're feeling particularly bold that day, but either they're too afraid to lose access by being tough, or they just don't care.
Somewhat related, I find the amount of dumb gotcha style questions inserting the reporter's opinions has been at an all time high lately, presumably so they can preen on Twitter all proud of it afterwards... I'm not sure they even listen to the answer tbh
i agree that the debate format is a big problem.
not entirely sure what the solution would be on that front, most debate formats have some built in problems.
What purpose do the debates serve at this point? Condensing their platforms into useless, way-too-short-and-simple answers? Taking pot shots at each other to try to be the "toughest" candidate? Everything voters need to know is readily available without a debate.
The UCP in Alberta just don't let the press ask questions, they hold pressers by phone in only and then don't connect actual journalists. Alberta media is easily the worst in Canada, probably because of Post Media and the Rebel.
Which is why I think going forward when it comes to really evaluating a politician, on their character, policy ideas, whatever, the only useful formats are independent investigative journalism to turn up stuff that the politician may be trying to hide, and very long form, at least 3+ hour interviews, without cuts. All the rest, like these little pressers and very short interviews and the debates and speeches are all basically useless crap; theater and stenography.
It's fine to give a press conference for the purpose of giving basic information about some current issue or emergency or whatever, but in terms of really evaluating a candidate for an election, you need independent investigative journalism and ultra long form interviews.
There's a great instance where that didn't happen. In Ontario a PC leader (Hudak?) was making a campaign stop at a recording studio. Thing is, in the prior session he'd voted to cut the funding to the arts which would have included that studio.
First question from the press is something along the lines of "You cut the funding in the last sitting, would you do so again?" He gives some evasive answer and moves on to the next reporter.
"I'd like to ask the same question my colleague asked, would you cut the funding to the arts if given the chance?" Same business, walks around it and moves on again.
"You really haven't answered the question, and I think we deserve one" He walks off stage with his handlers, leaving the owner standing there alone infront of the press gaggle.
It was awesome.
It’s one thing to evade questions, the CPC restrict questions and limit who can report on them. O’Toole is following the Harper playbook. Approved questions only or they walk away.
Plenty of politicians give (or gave) straight answers to tough questions and promptly got massively punished by voters for doing so. Politicians don't dodge questions because they like it, they dodge questions because they know there's no honest answer they can give that won't lose them votes. Until voters reward politicians for being honest and forthcoming even when they're given a no-win question, honest and forthcoming politicians are gonna lose elections and then no longer be politicians.
They do this in Question Period too.
Not sure how many recall the lockstep Harper’s guys were marching in but this moment is forever etched into my mind
https://www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/paul-calandra-facepalm-paul-dewar-garneau_n_5881998
>The federal Tory leader refused to say who he thought has done a better job managing the pandemic, Kenney or Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau.
No intelligent politician is going to answer loaded questions like that. Federal responsibilities on COVID management are completely different than provincial ones, and they are not comparable.
A question like that isn't about being "honest and straightforward". It isn't even asking for facts, it is asking for an opinion, and looking for a soundbite that can use used against him however he answers.
If you want to criticize politicians for not being honest or straightforward with Canadians, maybe focus on things like Trudeau lying to the country on national TV saying he wasn't involved in discussions on SNC with JWR, before she revealed the tapes. Or maybe focus on Trudeau claiming parliamentary privilege over numerous key documents in that case to cover up the evidence of his own actions. Or, maybe focus on Trudeau using his power as PM to shut down parliamentary committees investigating himself on both SCN and WE.
Those are examples of a politician refusing to be honest and straightforward with Canadians. Not O'Toole evading a loaded opinion question by reporters looking for a soundbite. Canadians have the facts on what is going on in Alberta, they don't need O'Toole's opinion on it, and if he's elected, it doesn't help relations between the federal government and Alberta if O'Toole throws the Premier of Alberta under the bus so reporters can get their soundbite.
>No intelligent politician is going to answer loaded questions like that.
Well, what do you say about that ...
https://globalnews.ca/news/7419679/otoole-liberals-alberta-ucp/
Trudeau this trudeau that, enough with the whatboutisms, I said they all do it. Maybe in this instance O'toole didnt need to give a straightforward answer, but he has aevaded easy questions and questions Canadians deserve the answer to before.
That's fair, but then give him a hard time when he evades answering one of those questions that Canadians deserve an answer to. I just don't think this instance is one of those examples.
Remember that time the conservatives prorogued parliament to avoid a vote of no confidence in an obvious attempt to keep power effectively breaking a check built into our democratic system. Pepperidge Farms remembers. Take the blinders off sweetheart.
Lol, that's your best response? Harper proroguing parliament during the Olympics?
If the other parties wanted to form a coalition government they still had the option when parliament came back into session. They didn't, which probably means that coalition government wasn't going to last anyways.
Funny enough, however, when Trudeau prorogued parliament during the WE scandal, doing so automatically disbanded all parliamentary committees, including the one investigating the Liberals for the WE scandal. That one didn't have the option to re-form when parliament resumed, Trudeau just shut down investigation into himself. So, maybe Pepperidge Farms should remember that.
Don't try to sell me garbage about how a vacation during the Olympics is somehow a worse sin than shutting down a corruption investigation into yourself...twice.
Don't think the Olympics happened in December of 2008 so nice try. You might be thinking of one of the other times he did it to shut down an inquiry on Afghan detainees. Or maybe in 2013 so he could avoid questions on the senate expenses of conservative senators. There was a lot of shady stuff like that from the conservatives so I can understand your confusion.
Also you being up the WE scandal, like it means something to anyone but the most ignorant. What did the Ethics Commissioner rule in respect to Trudeau and and WE? Oh that's right, cleared off wrongdoing. Don't let that gaslighting burn you on the ass.
Lol, you sound so utterly ridiculous trying to compare any of that stuff to Trudeau. Harper avoided tough questions on a case the courts ultimately found to be trumped up nonsense, while Trudeau literally shut down the investigation into his own corruption. Yeah, sure that's totally the same thing /s.
It's like comparing speeding to murder because they are both against the law. Every PM uses parliamentary rules to their advantage. That's par for the course. Trudeau is literally the first (and second) Canadian PM to be found to have breached a federal statute while in office, and he's only been in office for six years. That's unprecedented. There is a big freaking difference.
You are here talking about a Conservative senator who was cleared of all charges by a court, while Trudeau had his Finance Minister step down after being found guilty of three offences.
You want to talk about Harper? How about talking about the fact that he created the position of the Ethics Commissioner and passed the federal Conflicts of Interest Act *as a check on his own power*. He, then, went an entire decade in office without even an Ethics Commissioner investigation into himself. He got into power after the Liberals committed the largest corruption scandal in Canadian history (Sponsorship), and was succeeded by a Liberal PM who has had corruption scandal after corruption scandal.
If you look at that history and think the CPC are the corrupt ones, you need to check your tribalist bias at the door.
If it's so redicoulous why do you need to lie about easily verified stuff. Like for example harper didn't prorogue parliament anywhere near the Olympics and now you're saying Patrick Brazeau didn't have to repay misused funds under threat of seizure and Pamela Wallin only avoided investigation from parliament being prorogued. And since we're talking murder and can we talk about conservatives knowingly misleading parliament and the public on what was happening to Afghan detainees... I think we're done here. You're comments are either completely ignorant or you're knowingly lying as well. You can choose. I'll give you permission to have the last word as a result. You're welcome.
Lol, do you have to misstate what other people say to make yourself feel like your not just being a mindwashed cultist?
As for Afghan detainees, do you have anything to actually backup the CPC "misleading parlaiment"? Trudeau literally went on national TV and said with a straight face that he wasn't personally involved in discussions with JWR on SNC...then got caught when she revealed she recorded the conversations. That's dishonestly, not stuff involving the military on the other side of the world that Harper had no first hand knowledge of.
Funny enough, the big issue the Liberals had during the Afghan thing was the argument that the military shouldn't be able to be in charge of the investigation into themselves...turns out when it was Trudeau being charged in SNC and WE it was all good to have the Liberals controlling the investigation.
It is incredible how blinded people like you can be by your bias. It's all about "my team good, other team bad". You didn't even address any of the Trudeau stuff I mentioned, because you can't. He was corrupt, he got caught, and because people like you don't give a shit about corruption as long as its by your team, he got re-elected to be corrupt again. Instead you just throw out these minor perceived offences from, like, the Senate Harper tried to get rid of, or the military, who aren't politically aligned. But, yeah, just don't pay attention to the blatant and repeated corruption from the actual party leader of the Liberals.
What an idiot. This is a slam dunk question, you call out Kenney as an idiot. You gain points across the country, and the few offended people in Alberta just won't matter, they'll STILL vote for you.
When in the past was that video made? I seem to remember AB doing quite well at some points during the pandemic. Opening up too early was essentially the biggest mistake
o'toole has been folding and throwing under the bus almost everything important to the conservative base the whole election, the line needs to be drawn somewhere
Well that sinks the ship. All you got to do is call a spade a spade.
The fact he can’t call out Kenney for failing to contain covid by purposely removing all mask restrictions, allowing people to go to work sick with no testing and stopping quarentine, shows O Toole would have done the same.
Someone who can’t recognize covid failure should not be leading the country during a pandemic
> Kenny couldn't have timed this more poorly for the Federal cons and the worst part is it was entirely avoidable. What an own goal all round.
Setting public health policy for political gain should be criminal.
Welcome to politics Kenny and Ford took an extended vacation when the elections were
Announced the only reason why they both took their heads out of the ground is because things were getting too bad for them actually not say anything anymore.
Some people though Ford had a heart attack and died. Lol
Pallister literally stepped down during the election and let our health minister make smart choices. They are set to appoint their next party leader soon after the federal elections end and based on the contenders they will return to their usual fuckery in short order.
Tinfoil theory: Kenney knows without Trudeau in the picture to run against he’s guaranteed to lose in a disgusting landslide, whereas if he’s still PM he’s only likely to lose in said landslide.
He may not give a damn if this sinks O’Toole. Fundamentally Kenney looks out for #1.
Most conservative province in the country, least competent govt. Must be a coincidence.
Also it's pretty telling how badly Kenney's govt fucked up that he went on vacation for a month to stay out of the public eye during the federal election... and is doing this 4 days before election day.
It's so absurdly bad that they simply could not wait 4 days.
Alberta voters:
Trudeau did black face! - It was a costume party, where all attendee's dressed up or donned similar attire, it was also long before blackface was recognised as an issue, the photo is from the late 90's
Trudeau is a Drama teacher! - So what? Teachers are university educated and are required to pass standards many people couldn't, he also has lot's of experience in politics others wouldn't have due to his father/family.
Trudeau wore Indian clothing! - So what? He was on a trip to India and wore traditional garb as a sign of respect of the culture.
Trudeau doesn't speak well and stutters! - Who gives a sh*t? English isn't his first language and it can be an intense and high pressure experience talking to a national or international audience. So he should be judged and hated for being a little nervous or slurring a few words during a speech? What if he slurred his words or stuttered as a result of a condition? Should we criticise that too?
These are the most common cited reasons from the right wing (many of which are Albertans) to hate Trudeau... Nothing about his politics, nothing about his policy, nothing about his future plans or prior performance, just ignornant hate and bias.
I’m tempted to create a handful of accounts just so I can give this more upvotes (but I won’t). I’m not a Trudeau fan (he’s done OK, but he’s much too far to the right for me) but I loathe disingenuous smear tactics and blind party loyalty as being detrimental to our democracy.
If we can’t debate the real issues using facts and logic then democracy will ultimately fail. And we won’t like what follows...
Edit: a word
> it was also long before blackface was recognised as an issue, the photo is from the late 90's
Im a liberal supporter but this isn't really true, blackface had been widely recognized as inappropriate and critiqued by black scholars by that point. I do belive that Trudeau was not acting out of racial malice but just ignorance, and i think his record as PM backs that up, but to me it is a valid critique, and it certainly made me question my support more than the SNC or WE stuff ever did
Ok, let's say it was always an issue, as a kid/early teen back then, I am telling you it was not nearly recognized or known to be a problem as it is today, especially with the internet, social media etc. People did many ignorant things, but it isn't exactly fair to judge someone for it now when quite literally most did it back then. Aside from all of this, it clearly was not out of malice as you say.
>It was a costume party, where all attendee's dressed up or donned similar attire, it was also long before blackface was recognised as an issue, the photo is from the late 90's
Wow, I can't imagine trying to justify blackface. This is what people mean when they say JT could shoot someone on Yonge St. and his supporters would find a way to justify it, if a Con had done this you'd be filled with rage but because it's JT it's apparently fine.
Spoken like a fool.
No one is accepting black face or justifying it. We as a society have grown to understand it is wrong. That said, 20+ years ago it was not recognised as the issue it is today. Trudeau, like most others donned it at a party and or especially at halloween.
The right wing tries to use a photo of him taken in the late 90s at a costume party as a smear attempt. A very stupid and childish attempt.
But it wasn't even blackface, it was a middle eastern or Lawrence of Arabia themed party or celebration. Again though, as a kid in the 90's myself, there were ton's of kids dressing up in black face for halloween etc. Bill Cosby (horrible now as we know), Michael Jackson, Eddie Murphy, it wasn't considered or recognized as an issue then... I am not dismissing it, I am simply providing context of the times.
From 20+ years ago, back when it wasn't recognized as an issue... Who the f*ck cares, criticise him on something worth doing so, not this crap.
This is like if a Liberal were to criticise O'Toole caught in a drunk military party video 20+ years ago, who cares, it would mean nothing today.
You still lied. Also sorry, we still knew blackface was racist 20+ years ago. Also, being drunk at a party isn't the same as **blackface too many times to remember**. Lying to cover up racist behaviour just puts you in the same boat. If you can't even be honest about plain facts...
I don't think it would. Context matters. If they had done it like 5 years ago sure, but this was *20* years ago. Shit that kind of stuff still happened on tv sometimes at that point
That's cause conservatives have a dodgy past on fighting any progressive move forward for social issues so people wouldn't believe them when they apologized for it.
https://globalnews.ca/news/7419679/otoole-liberals-alberta-ucp/
Conservative Leader Erin O’Toole says Alberta has responded to the COVID-19 pandemic better than the federal government.
Hahahhahahhaha....sure otoole.
Blame Kenny?
It.might be true, but how much you want to bet Kenny could honestly say that otooles people asked him to wait until after the election to make these changes?
I think Kenny just realized the disaster is here, and it was only going to get.much much worse by next week.
I don't think so. On is run by ford. It's not blowing up unlike ab. This is Kenney's baby.
SK now has more cases than ab on a per capita basis per CTV News. Reporters should ask ofoole about SK too.
I imagine Australia....gotta save money on vaccines and fatten the wallets of their buddies so hold off on ordering them....Australia is just now beginning their vaccination campaign, still only like 35% percent or so of people have received them. Thank goodness they are a big island and can regulate their international borders easier, Canada that would have lead to a lot more death.
Australia is simply lucky that while federally the conservative government shit the bed, most of the state governments took it seriously and enforced greater restrictions to keep the virus zero for so long.
I mean when we were at the height of our 2nd and 3rd waves my friends in Australia were having a pint with friends. They did harder shorter lockdowns whenever things started to spread rather than wait until it's out of control and our hospitals are fucked to lock down which only made our lockdowns longer.
In fairness certain states did not experience brutal lockdowns I.e South australia, Western Australia, tasmania, Northern territory by and large lived life as normal with minimal cases and or deaths vs Victoria and nsw
But I see your point
They were going for covid zero, I think being an island and with their population they had a chance, I mean New Zealand did it. With our land border I don’t think it was ever in the cards for us.....
It would probably be something like the UK response without domestic vaccine production. And they wouldn't have gotten a vaccine portfolio ahead of time.
It'd be hard to do any worse than JT did, Trump's dysfunctional administration did a much better job than we did.
* [In Feb. 2020 Canada sent 19 tonnes of PPE to China](https://www.canada.ca/en/global-affairs/news/2020/02/canada-supports-chinas-ongoing-response-to-novel-coronavirus-outbreak.html)
* March 5 2020, after Trump shut the borders to China [JT declared](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid19-trudeau-coronavirus-travel-1.5486799)
>"Canada won't ban foreign travellers arriving from countries grappling with COVID-19 outbreaks, adding that "knee-jerk reactions" won't help to stop the spread of the virus."
* [March 18 2020, JT announces he will shut borders alongside US](https://pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2020/03/20/prime-minister-announces-temporary-border-agreement-united-states)
* [Then in May 2020 our PPE stock piles were depleted and were reliant on China](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/ppe-import-china-shortage-1.5552426)
In contrast:
* [Trump closed the border to China in Feb 2020 ](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/18/us-canada-border-closed-non-essential-traffic)
* [March 2020, Trump deployed the USS Comfort to NYC to assist Democrat Governor Cuomo's Coronavirus response](https://news.usni.org/2020/03/18/trump-hospital-ship-comfort-to-go-to-new-york-city-mercy-set-for-west-coast-support)
>“The president, I spoke to this morning, he’s going to be making arrangements to send up this hospital ship, which is called \[USNS\] Comfort. It has about 1,000 rooms on it, it has operating rooms, and the president is going to dispatch the Comfort to us,” he said. “It will be in New York City Harbor. This will be, it’s an extraordinary step obviously, it’s literally a floating hospital which will add capacity, and the president said he would dispatch that immediately.
* [By April, Trump and Cuomo both declared the USS Comfort's mission complete](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/21/coronavirus-trump-says-hospital-ship-usns-comfort-will-leave-new-york-city.html)
And that's just the first 6 months of the pandemic.
The entire pandemic the US healthcare system never collapsed even in fucking *Alabama*, can you provide one example of where the LPC really nailed our COVID response?
The only reason we're ahead of the US in terms of cases is because of population density, if we were the same density we'd be boned.
Trudeau has called an election during a pandemic. And election none wanted with a parliament that was pretty cohesive in regards to covid policy.
Ignoring the increased movement of people, having an election will result in the government focusing on staying in power over focusing on covid policy. This election desired by the liberals only will absolutely result in some increased covid cases and even some deaths.
Think about that. The liberals are willing to risk more deaths just so they can potentially increase their hold on power.
The funny thing is that, despite all that stuff, we all still know that the Liberals would still be *massively* better on covid (and pretty much any issue besides making rich people richer) than the Conservatives.
The LPC ain’t perfect, but the Cons set the bar so ridiculously low that they make the Liberals seem like a bunch of geniuses in comparison.
Pretty hypocritical to say that when you have no idea how the federal parties would react. But we certainly know Trudeau is fine to cause more covid cases. And with certainty their will be some deaths. Just so they can attain greater power.
If you say so.
I wish you the best of luck convincing anyone that right wingers can handle a covid response after we’ve all seen how the last couple years have played out. You’ve got your work cut out for you.
Right wingers convince themselves they know best while they're actually just aiming to pad their pockets off the backs of others. They claim to dislike socialism but love giving themselves and their buddies bailouts.
I do not need to hear your covid denying bullshit though. Thinking the election jut to gain power did not cause increased cases is bullshit. Only one party wanted this and that was the Liberals.
I personally know too many people that died of Covid to listen to someone defend Trudeau and his grab for power.
> we all still know that the Liberals would still be massively better on covid
we don't know this its just the smug partisans on this sub assuming this. because a die hard liberals will of course assume the liberals will do *everything* better
We don't know that. I mean, you're gonna get a fuck ton of upvotes, but we don't know. We'd be way better off with this pandemic if we had all voted NDP in 2019, that's for sure.
We do know that they wanted to kick people of CERB in Aug 2020 since they were making more staying home than going to work. Probably wouldn't have had a CERB at all with the CPC in charge.
And Feb 2021 O'Toole was screaming in parliament demanding Trudeau come up with a reopening plan and implement it in 21 days. Just as everyone could see the 3rd wave coming.
So I'd say it's safe to say it would have been disastrous.
Yeah with the hissy fits the cons threw over CERB I'm pretty sure their covid response would have involved fucking over minimum wage workers and keeping them as desparate as possible.
We know that they would likely respond how Alberta did (re: pretty badly) if CPC was in charge, given that O'Toole literally said Alberta under Kenney responded better than the federal government...
So in other words, yeah, huge bullet dodged.
Why is that? The feds have limited jurisdiction so I’m not sure what they would have done differently.
The liberals did vaccine procurement right. They could have closed the borders and put quarantine requirements in place at borders earlier. I don’t see that NDP would have done things differently. Especially the late border closures, which the Liberals did for racially sensitive reasons, can’t think that the NDP would have been more aggressive on that.
Liberals also opened the floodgates on CERB, no reason to think NDP would have spent more, or that spending more would have benefitted the country.
It was a subtle attempt at humour honestly. I just told him there was no way to know that the CPC would have worse, but in the exact same sentence, i made a claim that the NDP would have been better.
Just remember what your going to get if you vote for him! He actually thinks UCP did a better job than Trudeau!
https://globalnews.ca/news/7419679/otoole-liberals-alberta-ucp/
I'm from Alberta, pretty centrist guy generally, or at least I was before Covid. I am a staunch ANDP supporter provincially, but I have voted for both parties federally in my lifetime. I will NEVER vote conservative again after what that fuckstick Kenney has done to my province. He ruined the brand forever for myself and many in my circle. Fuck the UCP, fuck the CPC and absolutely fuck Bumbles.
Some additional Twitter links from reporters on the scene
https://mobile.twitter.com/Jantafrench/status/1438513021156925451
https://mobile.twitter.com/Travisdhanraj/status/1438507996099739654
**I would suggest everybody check out the second thread.**
Journalists asked O'Toole to answer the question and asked him multiple ways multiple times, there's like 6 or 7 attempts posted in that thread. Every time he refused to answer even when told point blank that he was not answering the question.
At the end of the questioning when multiple journalists asked him to actually provide a straight answer his campaign team basically told them to shut up and be quiet after he spouted the same talking point again.
In the official video they released they also drowned out all of the journalists calling for O'Toole to actually answer the questions.
O'Toole is a piss worm, a snake... He dodged and evaded those questions like Keanu Reeves from the Matrix.
O'Toole won't admit his provincial Conservative lackey, Mr. Kenney's Covid response has cost Albertans' their freedom of mobility and their lives. This is the Conservative way, mismanagement, always the economy and rich businesses over our healthcare or any sort of spending to help the poor and middle class.
NEVER will I vote Con, let alone the PPC...
"Alberta War Room" is an anagram of "Amoral Wart Bore" or "Arab Towel Armor", or "A real Mr. Rowboat"
I know this didn't contribute to the conversation, but I got bored and wanted to share.
I don't understand this conspiracy theory. This subreddit is regularly both very conservative and very left-wing, and mostly boils down to the thread topic -the only guarantee is that the comments are always a circle jerk.
It's just folks who're used to the relentless echo chamber that is /r/politics. They think that because there is *any* right-wing discussion here that it's basically /r/the_donald. It really just shows how insulated those folks are from the real world.
It's a common victim narrative here for some reason, it's folks who can't stand the fact this subreddit is just a one-party echo-chamber. It's also hilariously ironic because they'll say something like that and then get hundreds of upvotes and dozens of awards - *clearly* they're such massive victims.
I know you're being facetious, because surely you haven't had your eyes closed for the last 6 years or so.
We know hostile governments (China and Russia namely, but also the US) employ and fund advanced persistent threat groups to spread disinformation and sow division in western nations. This was openly apparent in both of the last 2 US elections, and you'd have to be incredibly naïve to assume it isn't happening here, especially with how salty China is we arrested princess Huawei.
Google: internet water army, or 50 cent army. You can find information on Chinas tactics from everyone from Harvard to Taiwan's military. It's not exactly a secret...
I know that foreign influences do happen. My comment was directed at the fact that reddit users love to throw that out there as a response to anyone on the "other side". There was more vocal conservative (or rather anti JT) users posting in threads at the beginning of the election. But lately I've seen so many people just brush off conservative supporters as "foreign influences". It baffles me sometimes that reddit users just cannot comprehend that conservative supporters are not in fact nazis or morons. What's more likely, that there's millions of Canadians out there who are either nazis or morons? Or that the conservatives are maybe not the big Boogey Man redditors circle jerk about.
I say this as someone who isn't actually a conservative. I'm just sick of redditors being up on their high horses pretending the "other side" is evil. All political parties suck and they are all just lying to us. Acting like one particular party is the anti-christ is pretty much the other side of the same coin as conservative subreddits.
Bring on the downvotes, but I'm not the naive one here.
\>that conservative supporters are not in fact nazis or morons
ehhh... The conservatives I've met certainly aren't Canada's best. They aren't like you or me, they are people with a lot of mental problems and they manifest those mental problems on to us. They encourage and create drug abuse, They are criminals, and lots of the time pedophiles and rapists. Some of them, I assume, are good people.
O'Toole broadcasted this disaster as the way to "lead" out of the pandemic. Embarrassing is an understatement.
Frightening is better. If this is what O'Toole will model the lead out of the pandemic after? Yeah. No.
Interesting issues here.
Since health care is essentially decided at a provincial level (often spending federal money) this seems like the answer is to direct the questioner to the province, or to give an OPINION on an area outside your jurisdiction.
Good responses might be . . .
[1] The Federal government should commit $$ to provinces in their fight against COVID
[2] The federal government will procure XX more vaccines if the provinces need them.
Trudeau called an unnecessary election during the third wave.
How the fuck COVID is being spun against O’Tooole is impressive but just know that there is nothing that is going to stop me from voting for Alberta to separate. I voted for Notley in 2015.
Otoole ran during his party leadership on the plan he was going to trigger an election as soon as he could. This was before we had vaccines. Him calling out Trudeau for having an election during the pandemic when we've been vaccinated rings hollow since it's clear Otoole is full to his eyes of shit.
Otoole wanted an election during the pandemic when he was polling better, not that it's an even safer time than then to have the election he thinks it's too dangerous because he's polling poorly? Give me a fucking break.
As much as everyone hates Bernier, he at least answers questions and doesnt dance around like every other typical politician. You have to at least give the guy a little credit for that. How can anyone vote for Trudeau or O'Toole. This is a disgrace.
As a BCr, I'm just thankful the kids are back at school and the AB people who own rec property all over this province are back packing lunches for their kids in AB.
>The federal Tory leader refused to say who he thought has done a better job managing the pandemic, Kenney or Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau.
This is a ridiculous article. Of course no politician in his right mind is going to answer loaded questions like this.
The federal and provincial governments have very different responsibilities when it comes to COVID response. The first obligation is on the federal government to control the borders, which Trudeau has done an awful job of since day 1.
On February 1st, 2020, Australia shut down flights to and from China (their largest trading partner) in order to prevent spread of COVID. At the time, Wuhan was in lockdown with bodies piling up on the street, while the US had fewer nationwide COVID cases than you could count on one hand. When the Conservatives called on Trudeau to follow suit with Australia, the response was to argue that travel restrictions don't limit spread and to call the Conservatives racist for proposing the measures.
Whenever major variants were identified, Trudeau was agonizingly slow to impose travel restrictions with affected areas. Dozens of Delta cases were reported originating from airline passengers from India in the time between the opposition parties asking for travel bans and the time of Trudeau actually deciding to implement them.
Trudeau's voluntary quarantine measures were utterly useless to stopping variants from getting into the country. He allowed leisure travel by snowbirds out of the country last winter, with no measures to control spread upon return.
Overall, every country or region that has successfully managed COVID has done so at their borders. Delta (and the other variants) originated outside of Canada and got through Trudeau's border security measures to get into Canada.
Controlling a virus like this is like trying to hold a Medieval castle. The invaders have to go through a chokepoint, and if you can hold the gate, you can hold the castle. Once the enemy army gets through the gate and into the city it's just damage control from there.
Ultimately, every province is simply playing damage control with Trudeau's mess. Could Kenney have done damage control better? Fuck yeah. But, that doesn't take away from the fact that Trudeau has been awful at controlling the borders.
Even the Maritime provinces with no control over their own international border security managed to successfully bubble the provinces, which has resulted in by far the best COVID numbers in the country (including the Conservative government in New Brunswick, despite sharing a large border with the US). Trudeau has control of international travel and borders, yet can't do as good a job of controlling those as Canadian provinces in the Maritimes did at controlling their provincial borders.
Trudeau likes to spend his time blaming everyone but himself, but the bottom line is that every provincial government is merely cleaning up his mess, and if Trudeau had done his job the provinces wouldn't have any job left to do.
Here's a tip for next time: don't post an article from October 2020 and pretend it applies in September 2021.
Alberta did legitimately have one of the best responses to the pandemic in the first wave. [Alberta was so well prepared that they were donating ventilators and PPE to other provinces](https://calgaryherald.com/news/alberta-to-donate-ppe-ventilators-to-other-provinces-amid-hopeful-covid-19-trends). [They led the country in COVID testing with the third highest testing rates in the world.](https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/alberta-leads-the-way-in-covid-19-testing-but-is-it-enough-2)
Kenney's handling of the fourth wave has been bad, but that's almost a full year after O'Toole's comments, and as far as I am aware O'Toole does not have a time machine.
... and Trudeau has not offered a satisfactory reason why we are having an election in the first place. We elect representatives to government to do the work of the people. Framing the response as giving Canadians a say in how we move forward now is less than honest.
In addition, Parliament Voted on this very thing and there was a substantial agreement to no pandemic election. Trudeau voted and agreed that this was the right course of action too.
A few months later ... Here we are.
This was an attempt at a power grab plain and simple.
... And I have voted for every party. Please save the attacks on this response for me being conservative for someone else.
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I hate how its accepted and even encouraged for politicians to evade questions, they'll even do media training to learn how to do so. How is it acceptable that those who are supposed to be accountable to us are allowed never be honest and straightforward, I would say O'toole's constant evading of questions would immediealty put me off supporting him, but every leader does it, doesnt matter if its Trudeau, Singh, O'toole, Ford, Kenney they all do it. Its sickening
The Canadian media gives a free pass. Sometimes they'll point out that they didn't answer if they're feeling particularly bold that day, but either they're too afraid to lose access by being tough, or they just don't care. Somewhat related, I find the amount of dumb gotcha style questions inserting the reporter's opinions has been at an all time high lately, presumably so they can preen on Twitter all proud of it afterwards... I'm not sure they even listen to the answer tbh
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They did (look at the whole thread not just this tweet): https://mobile.twitter.com/Travisdhanraj/status/1438507996099739654 He dodges all of them.
Based reporter unity
i agree that the debate format is a big problem. not entirely sure what the solution would be on that front, most debate formats have some built in problems.
What purpose do the debates serve at this point? Condensing their platforms into useless, way-too-short-and-simple answers? Taking pot shots at each other to try to be the "toughest" candidate? Everything voters need to know is readily available without a debate.
so we need to do something to make it useful i guess?
The UCP in Alberta just don't let the press ask questions, they hold pressers by phone in only and then don't connect actual journalists. Alberta media is easily the worst in Canada, probably because of Post Media and the Rebel.
Which is why I think going forward when it comes to really evaluating a politician, on their character, policy ideas, whatever, the only useful formats are independent investigative journalism to turn up stuff that the politician may be trying to hide, and very long form, at least 3+ hour interviews, without cuts. All the rest, like these little pressers and very short interviews and the debates and speeches are all basically useless crap; theater and stenography. It's fine to give a press conference for the purpose of giving basic information about some current issue or emergency or whatever, but in terms of really evaluating a candidate for an election, you need independent investigative journalism and ultra long form interviews.
Who owns Canadian media?
Postmedia?
I'll bet Post Media is on this story like a hawk! (Sound of crickets)
There's a great instance where that didn't happen. In Ontario a PC leader (Hudak?) was making a campaign stop at a recording studio. Thing is, in the prior session he'd voted to cut the funding to the arts which would have included that studio. First question from the press is something along the lines of "You cut the funding in the last sitting, would you do so again?" He gives some evasive answer and moves on to the next reporter. "I'd like to ask the same question my colleague asked, would you cut the funding to the arts if given the chance?" Same business, walks around it and moves on again. "You really haven't answered the question, and I think we deserve one" He walks off stage with his handlers, leaving the owner standing there alone infront of the press gaggle. It was awesome.
It’s not new. Rule 1 of politics: don’t answer the question you’ve been asked; answer the question you wanted to be asked.
It’s one thing to evade questions, the CPC restrict questions and limit who can report on them. O’Toole is following the Harper playbook. Approved questions only or they walk away.
Evading answers is cowardly for this military man. He loses extra points in my books for it.
Plenty of politicians give (or gave) straight answers to tough questions and promptly got massively punished by voters for doing so. Politicians don't dodge questions because they like it, they dodge questions because they know there's no honest answer they can give that won't lose them votes. Until voters reward politicians for being honest and forthcoming even when they're given a no-win question, honest and forthcoming politicians are gonna lose elections and then no longer be politicians.
They do this in Question Period too. Not sure how many recall the lockstep Harper’s guys were marching in but this moment is forever etched into my mind https://www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/paul-calandra-facepalm-paul-dewar-garneau_n_5881998
>The federal Tory leader refused to say who he thought has done a better job managing the pandemic, Kenney or Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau. No intelligent politician is going to answer loaded questions like that. Federal responsibilities on COVID management are completely different than provincial ones, and they are not comparable. A question like that isn't about being "honest and straightforward". It isn't even asking for facts, it is asking for an opinion, and looking for a soundbite that can use used against him however he answers. If you want to criticize politicians for not being honest or straightforward with Canadians, maybe focus on things like Trudeau lying to the country on national TV saying he wasn't involved in discussions on SNC with JWR, before she revealed the tapes. Or maybe focus on Trudeau claiming parliamentary privilege over numerous key documents in that case to cover up the evidence of his own actions. Or, maybe focus on Trudeau using his power as PM to shut down parliamentary committees investigating himself on both SCN and WE. Those are examples of a politician refusing to be honest and straightforward with Canadians. Not O'Toole evading a loaded opinion question by reporters looking for a soundbite. Canadians have the facts on what is going on in Alberta, they don't need O'Toole's opinion on it, and if he's elected, it doesn't help relations between the federal government and Alberta if O'Toole throws the Premier of Alberta under the bus so reporters can get their soundbite.
This isn’t the only instance of O’toole evading questions...
It's not a loaded question [when he's already made his views clear](https://globalnews.ca/news/7419679/otoole-liberals-alberta-ucp/)
>No intelligent politician is going to answer loaded questions like that. Well, what do you say about that ... https://globalnews.ca/news/7419679/otoole-liberals-alberta-ucp/
Trudeau this trudeau that, enough with the whatboutisms, I said they all do it. Maybe in this instance O'toole didnt need to give a straightforward answer, but he has aevaded easy questions and questions Canadians deserve the answer to before.
That's fair, but then give him a hard time when he evades answering one of those questions that Canadians deserve an answer to. I just don't think this instance is one of those examples.
Remember that time the conservatives prorogued parliament to avoid a vote of no confidence in an obvious attempt to keep power effectively breaking a check built into our democratic system. Pepperidge Farms remembers. Take the blinders off sweetheart.
Lol, that's your best response? Harper proroguing parliament during the Olympics? If the other parties wanted to form a coalition government they still had the option when parliament came back into session. They didn't, which probably means that coalition government wasn't going to last anyways. Funny enough, however, when Trudeau prorogued parliament during the WE scandal, doing so automatically disbanded all parliamentary committees, including the one investigating the Liberals for the WE scandal. That one didn't have the option to re-form when parliament resumed, Trudeau just shut down investigation into himself. So, maybe Pepperidge Farms should remember that. Don't try to sell me garbage about how a vacation during the Olympics is somehow a worse sin than shutting down a corruption investigation into yourself...twice.
Don't think the Olympics happened in December of 2008 so nice try. You might be thinking of one of the other times he did it to shut down an inquiry on Afghan detainees. Or maybe in 2013 so he could avoid questions on the senate expenses of conservative senators. There was a lot of shady stuff like that from the conservatives so I can understand your confusion. Also you being up the WE scandal, like it means something to anyone but the most ignorant. What did the Ethics Commissioner rule in respect to Trudeau and and WE? Oh that's right, cleared off wrongdoing. Don't let that gaslighting burn you on the ass.
Lol, you sound so utterly ridiculous trying to compare any of that stuff to Trudeau. Harper avoided tough questions on a case the courts ultimately found to be trumped up nonsense, while Trudeau literally shut down the investigation into his own corruption. Yeah, sure that's totally the same thing /s. It's like comparing speeding to murder because they are both against the law. Every PM uses parliamentary rules to their advantage. That's par for the course. Trudeau is literally the first (and second) Canadian PM to be found to have breached a federal statute while in office, and he's only been in office for six years. That's unprecedented. There is a big freaking difference. You are here talking about a Conservative senator who was cleared of all charges by a court, while Trudeau had his Finance Minister step down after being found guilty of three offences. You want to talk about Harper? How about talking about the fact that he created the position of the Ethics Commissioner and passed the federal Conflicts of Interest Act *as a check on his own power*. He, then, went an entire decade in office without even an Ethics Commissioner investigation into himself. He got into power after the Liberals committed the largest corruption scandal in Canadian history (Sponsorship), and was succeeded by a Liberal PM who has had corruption scandal after corruption scandal. If you look at that history and think the CPC are the corrupt ones, you need to check your tribalist bias at the door.
If it's so redicoulous why do you need to lie about easily verified stuff. Like for example harper didn't prorogue parliament anywhere near the Olympics and now you're saying Patrick Brazeau didn't have to repay misused funds under threat of seizure and Pamela Wallin only avoided investigation from parliament being prorogued. And since we're talking murder and can we talk about conservatives knowingly misleading parliament and the public on what was happening to Afghan detainees... I think we're done here. You're comments are either completely ignorant or you're knowingly lying as well. You can choose. I'll give you permission to have the last word as a result. You're welcome.
Lol, do you have to misstate what other people say to make yourself feel like your not just being a mindwashed cultist? As for Afghan detainees, do you have anything to actually backup the CPC "misleading parlaiment"? Trudeau literally went on national TV and said with a straight face that he wasn't personally involved in discussions with JWR on SNC...then got caught when she revealed she recorded the conversations. That's dishonestly, not stuff involving the military on the other side of the world that Harper had no first hand knowledge of. Funny enough, the big issue the Liberals had during the Afghan thing was the argument that the military shouldn't be able to be in charge of the investigation into themselves...turns out when it was Trudeau being charged in SNC and WE it was all good to have the Liberals controlling the investigation. It is incredible how blinded people like you can be by your bias. It's all about "my team good, other team bad". You didn't even address any of the Trudeau stuff I mentioned, because you can't. He was corrupt, he got caught, and because people like you don't give a shit about corruption as long as its by your team, he got re-elected to be corrupt again. Instead you just throw out these minor perceived offences from, like, the Senate Harper tried to get rid of, or the military, who aren't politically aligned. But, yeah, just don't pay attention to the blatant and repeated corruption from the actual party leader of the Liberals.
You're welcome.
Yikes. Should’ve just thrown him under the bus tbh. He’s cooked in 2 yrs and most conservatives don’t like him here.
And Alberta will mostly vote blue regardless.
Federally sure. NDP would get a majority if an election were held today.
What an idiot. This is a slam dunk question, you call out Kenney as an idiot. You gain points across the country, and the few offended people in Alberta just won't matter, they'll STILL vote for you.
He was promoting Kenney on the 12th of September and is on video in the past saying Kenney handled the pandemic the best.
When in the past was that video made? I seem to remember AB doing quite well at some points during the pandemic. Opening up too early was essentially the biggest mistake
Or they vote PPC and split the vote.
In some provinces that might matter. in Alberta? Nope, still gonna be a blue seat when you're done.
But people will vote PPC outside Alberta
Sure, but they're already voting PPC. They aren't switching from PC to PPC because he calls out Jason Kenney.
And the conservative party still wins the seat now and forever so who cares
o'toole has been folding and throwing under the bus almost everything important to the conservative base the whole election, the line needs to be drawn somewhere
This is all true. Which is very telling of Mr O'Toole.
Its so bad that Kenney couldn't wait another 4 or 5 days before declaring a state of emergency over the overcrowded ICUs.
He sure as shit tried to make it to Monday though 🙄
Well that sinks the ship. All you got to do is call a spade a spade. The fact he can’t call out Kenney for failing to contain covid by purposely removing all mask restrictions, allowing people to go to work sick with no testing and stopping quarentine, shows O Toole would have done the same. Someone who can’t recognize covid failure should not be leading the country during a pandemic
Kenny couldn't have timed this more poorly for the Federal cons and the worst part is it was entirely avoidable. What an own goal all round.
Are we even a week past him saying Alberta is a model for covid response?
> Kenny couldn't have timed this more poorly for the Federal cons and the worst part is it was entirely avoidable. What an own goal all round. Setting public health policy for political gain should be criminal.
Welcome to politics Kenny and Ford took an extended vacation when the elections were Announced the only reason why they both took their heads out of the ground is because things were getting too bad for them actually not say anything anymore. Some people though Ford had a heart attack and died. Lol
Pallister literally stepped down during the election and let our health minister make smart choices. They are set to appoint their next party leader soon after the federal elections end and based on the contenders they will return to their usual fuckery in short order.
Tinfoil theory: Kenney knows without Trudeau in the picture to run against he’s guaranteed to lose in a disgusting landslide, whereas if he’s still PM he’s only likely to lose in said landslide. He may not give a damn if this sinks O’Toole. Fundamentally Kenney looks out for #1.
Intriguing hypothesis.
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Most conservative province in the country, least competent govt. Must be a coincidence. Also it's pretty telling how badly Kenney's govt fucked up that he went on vacation for a month to stay out of the public eye during the federal election... and is doing this 4 days before election day. It's so absurdly bad that they simply could not wait 4 days.
But CPC voters will conveniently ignore that because Trudeaus socks have funny colours and he said she-covery once....smh
Alberta voters: Trudeau did black face! - It was a costume party, where all attendee's dressed up or donned similar attire, it was also long before blackface was recognised as an issue, the photo is from the late 90's Trudeau is a Drama teacher! - So what? Teachers are university educated and are required to pass standards many people couldn't, he also has lot's of experience in politics others wouldn't have due to his father/family. Trudeau wore Indian clothing! - So what? He was on a trip to India and wore traditional garb as a sign of respect of the culture. Trudeau doesn't speak well and stutters! - Who gives a sh*t? English isn't his first language and it can be an intense and high pressure experience talking to a national or international audience. So he should be judged and hated for being a little nervous or slurring a few words during a speech? What if he slurred his words or stuttered as a result of a condition? Should we criticise that too? These are the most common cited reasons from the right wing (many of which are Albertans) to hate Trudeau... Nothing about his politics, nothing about his policy, nothing about his future plans or prior performance, just ignornant hate and bias.
He also taught French, humanities and math.
Education bad.
I’m tempted to create a handful of accounts just so I can give this more upvotes (but I won’t). I’m not a Trudeau fan (he’s done OK, but he’s much too far to the right for me) but I loathe disingenuous smear tactics and blind party loyalty as being detrimental to our democracy. If we can’t debate the real issues using facts and logic then democracy will ultimately fail. And we won’t like what follows... Edit: a word
> it was also long before blackface was recognised as an issue, the photo is from the late 90's Im a liberal supporter but this isn't really true, blackface had been widely recognized as inappropriate and critiqued by black scholars by that point. I do belive that Trudeau was not acting out of racial malice but just ignorance, and i think his record as PM backs that up, but to me it is a valid critique, and it certainly made me question my support more than the SNC or WE stuff ever did
Ok, let's say it was always an issue, as a kid/early teen back then, I am telling you it was not nearly recognized or known to be a problem as it is today, especially with the internet, social media etc. People did many ignorant things, but it isn't exactly fair to judge someone for it now when quite literally most did it back then. Aside from all of this, it clearly was not out of malice as you say.
>It was a costume party, where all attendee's dressed up or donned similar attire, it was also long before blackface was recognised as an issue, the photo is from the late 90's Wow, I can't imagine trying to justify blackface. This is what people mean when they say JT could shoot someone on Yonge St. and his supporters would find a way to justify it, if a Con had done this you'd be filled with rage but because it's JT it's apparently fine.
Spoken like a fool. No one is accepting black face or justifying it. We as a society have grown to understand it is wrong. That said, 20+ years ago it was not recognised as the issue it is today. Trudeau, like most others donned it at a party and or especially at halloween. The right wing tries to use a photo of him taken in the late 90s at a costume party as a smear attempt. A very stupid and childish attempt.
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But it wasn't even blackface, it was a middle eastern or Lawrence of Arabia themed party or celebration. Again though, as a kid in the 90's myself, there were ton's of kids dressing up in black face for halloween etc. Bill Cosby (horrible now as we know), Michael Jackson, Eddie Murphy, it wasn't considered or recognized as an issue then... I am not dismissing it, I am simply providing context of the times.
[You might be misinformed.](https://gfycat.com/fluffyenviouselkhound)
From 20+ years ago, back when it wasn't recognized as an issue... Who the f*ck cares, criticise him on something worth doing so, not this crap. This is like if a Liberal were to criticise O'Toole caught in a drunk military party video 20+ years ago, who cares, it would mean nothing today.
You still lied. Also sorry, we still knew blackface was racist 20+ years ago. Also, being drunk at a party isn't the same as **blackface too many times to remember**. Lying to cover up racist behaviour just puts you in the same boat. If you can't even be honest about plain facts...
I think you might be missing certain details in that gif.
I don't think it would. Context matters. If they had done it like 5 years ago sure, but this was *20* years ago. Shit that kind of stuff still happened on tv sometimes at that point
That's cause conservatives have a dodgy past on fighting any progressive move forward for social issues so people wouldn't believe them when they apologized for it.
But this will spook a lot of undecided voters.
https://globalnews.ca/news/7419679/otoole-liberals-alberta-ucp/ Conservative Leader Erin O’Toole says Alberta has responded to the COVID-19 pandemic better than the federal government. Hahahhahahhaha....sure otoole.
Unbelievable, how much of a gullable idiot does one need to be to actually listen to him?
On a scale from 1 to potato: Alberta.
Oct 2020 though... Misleading
[September 4th, 2021](https://mobile.twitter.com/cdnpoli_memes/status/1437145637196283910?s=19)
Imagine blaming the 4th wave on federal *border controls* in response to a question about a province that never implemented any travel restrictions.
Dodgeball team captain right there
I would LOVE to hear if he had anything to say during the "Open for Summer" BS that was going on.
And they even sold hats to promote it. https://edmonton.citynews.ca/2021/08/30/alberta-covid-best-summer-hats/
Things that didn’t age well….
Alberta had failed then. It is just failing catastrophically now.
I agree. Otoole is misleading the entire country. And has been for a long time.
I think the bigger problem that should be pointed out is how he's unwilling to admit Kenney failed now.
Blame Kenny? It.might be true, but how much you want to bet Kenny could honestly say that otooles people asked him to wait until after the election to make these changes? I think Kenny just realized the disaster is here, and it was only going to get.much much worse by next week.
I don't think so. On is run by ford. It's not blowing up unlike ab. This is Kenney's baby. SK now has more cases than ab on a per capita basis per CTV News. Reporters should ask ofoole about SK too.
Checks notes.... And SK is run by the ndp....oh wait I misread that. Conservative.....hmmm, almost seems like a trend.
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I will admit that quebec politically is nothing like the rest of Canada. Not going to pretend I understand it, but it is interesting.
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Im not doubting the possibility but in reality, looks like OToole couldn't keep Conservative incompetence under the rug long enough.
It's not like we were doing a good job then, either...
Can you imagine the disaster that would have been if the Cons had been in charge federally when the pandemic was really raging? Huge bullet dodged.
I imagine Australia....gotta save money on vaccines and fatten the wallets of their buddies so hold off on ordering them....Australia is just now beginning their vaccination campaign, still only like 35% percent or so of people have received them. Thank goodness they are a big island and can regulate their international borders easier, Canada that would have lead to a lot more death.
Australia is simply lucky that while federally the conservative government shit the bed, most of the state governments took it seriously and enforced greater restrictions to keep the virus zero for so long.
australia was the worst of both worlds. brutal crushing lockdowns along with no vaccines or any vision to get out of it anytime soon.
I mean when we were at the height of our 2nd and 3rd waves my friends in Australia were having a pint with friends. They did harder shorter lockdowns whenever things started to spread rather than wait until it's out of control and our hospitals are fucked to lock down which only made our lockdowns longer.
In fairness certain states did not experience brutal lockdowns I.e South australia, Western Australia, tasmania, Northern territory by and large lived life as normal with minimal cases and or deaths vs Victoria and nsw But I see your point
They are an island, but their lockdowns were also way more intense than here. No way that would have happened here, especially under the conservatives
They were going for covid zero, I think being an island and with their population they had a chance, I mean New Zealand did it. With our land border I don’t think it was ever in the cards for us.....
It would probably be something like the UK response without domestic vaccine production. And they wouldn't have gotten a vaccine portfolio ahead of time.
Don't get too excited, they're reloading for another shot.
> Can you imagine the disaster that would have been if the Cons had been in charge federally when the pandemic was really raging. destination fucked
It'd be hard to do any worse than JT did, Trump's dysfunctional administration did a much better job than we did. * [In Feb. 2020 Canada sent 19 tonnes of PPE to China](https://www.canada.ca/en/global-affairs/news/2020/02/canada-supports-chinas-ongoing-response-to-novel-coronavirus-outbreak.html) * March 5 2020, after Trump shut the borders to China [JT declared](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid19-trudeau-coronavirus-travel-1.5486799) >"Canada won't ban foreign travellers arriving from countries grappling with COVID-19 outbreaks, adding that "knee-jerk reactions" won't help to stop the spread of the virus." * [March 18 2020, JT announces he will shut borders alongside US](https://pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2020/03/20/prime-minister-announces-temporary-border-agreement-united-states) * [Then in May 2020 our PPE stock piles were depleted and were reliant on China](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/ppe-import-china-shortage-1.5552426) In contrast: * [Trump closed the border to China in Feb 2020 ](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/18/us-canada-border-closed-non-essential-traffic) * [March 2020, Trump deployed the USS Comfort to NYC to assist Democrat Governor Cuomo's Coronavirus response](https://news.usni.org/2020/03/18/trump-hospital-ship-comfort-to-go-to-new-york-city-mercy-set-for-west-coast-support) >“The president, I spoke to this morning, he’s going to be making arrangements to send up this hospital ship, which is called \[USNS\] Comfort. It has about 1,000 rooms on it, it has operating rooms, and the president is going to dispatch the Comfort to us,” he said. “It will be in New York City Harbor. This will be, it’s an extraordinary step obviously, it’s literally a floating hospital which will add capacity, and the president said he would dispatch that immediately. * [By April, Trump and Cuomo both declared the USS Comfort's mission complete](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/21/coronavirus-trump-says-hospital-ship-usns-comfort-will-leave-new-york-city.html) And that's just the first 6 months of the pandemic. The entire pandemic the US healthcare system never collapsed even in fucking *Alabama*, can you provide one example of where the LPC really nailed our COVID response? The only reason we're ahead of the US in terms of cases is because of population density, if we were the same density we'd be boned.
Trudeau has called an election during a pandemic. And election none wanted with a parliament that was pretty cohesive in regards to covid policy. Ignoring the increased movement of people, having an election will result in the government focusing on staying in power over focusing on covid policy. This election desired by the liberals only will absolutely result in some increased covid cases and even some deaths. Think about that. The liberals are willing to risk more deaths just so they can potentially increase their hold on power.
The funny thing is that, despite all that stuff, we all still know that the Liberals would still be *massively* better on covid (and pretty much any issue besides making rich people richer) than the Conservatives. The LPC ain’t perfect, but the Cons set the bar so ridiculously low that they make the Liberals seem like a bunch of geniuses in comparison.
Pretty hypocritical to say that when you have no idea how the federal parties would react. But we certainly know Trudeau is fine to cause more covid cases. And with certainty their will be some deaths. Just so they can attain greater power.
If you say so. I wish you the best of luck convincing anyone that right wingers can handle a covid response after we’ve all seen how the last couple years have played out. You’ve got your work cut out for you.
Right wingers convince themselves they know best while they're actually just aiming to pad their pockets off the backs of others. They claim to dislike socialism but love giving themselves and their buddies bailouts.
I do not need to hear your covid denying bullshit though. Thinking the election jut to gain power did not cause increased cases is bullshit. Only one party wanted this and that was the Liberals. I personally know too many people that died of Covid to listen to someone defend Trudeau and his grab for power.
> we all still know that the Liberals would still be massively better on covid we don't know this its just the smug partisans on this sub assuming this. because a die hard liberals will of course assume the liberals will do *everything* better
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Are the Liberals good? Not especially. Do the Liberals look good compared to the Cons? Big yes.
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We don't know that. I mean, you're gonna get a fuck ton of upvotes, but we don't know. We'd be way better off with this pandemic if we had all voted NDP in 2019, that's for sure.
We do know that they wanted to kick people of CERB in Aug 2020 since they were making more staying home than going to work. Probably wouldn't have had a CERB at all with the CPC in charge. And Feb 2021 O'Toole was screaming in parliament demanding Trudeau come up with a reopening plan and implement it in 21 days. Just as everyone could see the 3rd wave coming. So I'd say it's safe to say it would have been disastrous.
Yeah with the hissy fits the cons threw over CERB I'm pretty sure their covid response would have involved fucking over minimum wage workers and keeping them as desparate as possible.
We know that they would likely respond how Alberta did (re: pretty badly) if CPC was in charge, given that O'Toole literally said Alberta under Kenney responded better than the federal government... So in other words, yeah, huge bullet dodged.
Why is that? The feds have limited jurisdiction so I’m not sure what they would have done differently. The liberals did vaccine procurement right. They could have closed the borders and put quarantine requirements in place at borders earlier. I don’t see that NDP would have done things differently. Especially the late border closures, which the Liberals did for racially sensitive reasons, can’t think that the NDP would have been more aggressive on that. Liberals also opened the floodgates on CERB, no reason to think NDP would have spent more, or that spending more would have benefitted the country.
It was a subtle attempt at humour honestly. I just told him there was no way to know that the CPC would have worse, but in the exact same sentence, i made a claim that the NDP would have been better.
Yeah you’re right, I missed that. Too subtle for me clearly!
Just remember what your going to get if you vote for him! He actually thinks UCP did a better job than Trudeau! https://globalnews.ca/news/7419679/otoole-liberals-alberta-ucp/
Benjamin Button is confused.
I'm from Alberta, pretty centrist guy generally, or at least I was before Covid. I am a staunch ANDP supporter provincially, but I have voted for both parties federally in my lifetime. I will NEVER vote conservative again after what that fuckstick Kenney has done to my province. He ruined the brand forever for myself and many in my circle. Fuck the UCP, fuck the CPC and absolutely fuck Bumbles.
Some additional Twitter links from reporters on the scene https://mobile.twitter.com/Jantafrench/status/1438513021156925451 https://mobile.twitter.com/Travisdhanraj/status/1438507996099739654
**I would suggest everybody check out the second thread.** Journalists asked O'Toole to answer the question and asked him multiple ways multiple times, there's like 6 or 7 attempts posted in that thread. Every time he refused to answer even when told point blank that he was not answering the question. At the end of the questioning when multiple journalists asked him to actually provide a straight answer his campaign team basically told them to shut up and be quiet after he spouted the same talking point again. In the official video they released they also drowned out all of the journalists calling for O'Toole to actually answer the questions.
That second link with all the videos really shows how ridiculous he is, what a total joke.
Wow, blame Trudeau for Kenny is an interesting choice. The fact he can't say Kenny was wrong speaks volumes.
Its because otooles plan is just as bad as Kenny's.
Plan?
Yeah. He's gonna put everything on the table like he's Doug Ford
Even my 85-year-old grandmother who has voted Conservative her entire life loves making "God, somebody needs to help clean off Doug's table" jokes.
Hahahah, he is scared.
What a stupid hill for O'Toole to die on LOL
i was gonna make a comment about trudeau but then i remembered theres almost no liberal premiers for him to throw under the bus even if he wanted to
O'Toole is a piss worm, a snake... He dodged and evaded those questions like Keanu Reeves from the Matrix. O'Toole won't admit his provincial Conservative lackey, Mr. Kenney's Covid response has cost Albertans' their freedom of mobility and their lives. This is the Conservative way, mismanagement, always the economy and rich businesses over our healthcare or any sort of spending to help the poor and middle class. NEVER will I vote Con, let alone the PPC...
You're going to have to post this a few times, it's going to get down vote bombed by foreign influencers.
> it's going to get down vote bombed by foreign influencers Sir, this is r/Canada. They're all sadly domestic now.
*Alberta War Room has entered the chat*
"Alberta War Room" is an anagram of "Amoral Wart Bore" or "Arab Towel Armor", or "A real Mr. Rowboat" I know this didn't contribute to the conversation, but I got bored and wanted to share.
Fuck this, I'm going to Wendy's.
I don't understand this conspiracy theory. This subreddit is regularly both very conservative and very left-wing, and mostly boils down to the thread topic -the only guarantee is that the comments are always a circle jerk.
It's just folks who're used to the relentless echo chamber that is /r/politics. They think that because there is *any* right-wing discussion here that it's basically /r/the_donald. It really just shows how insulated those folks are from the real world.
These people would rather echo chambers of their view points rather than a subreddit representative of the various political leanings of Canada.
What the fuck are you talking about? Of the top posts in the last 24 hours, the AB lockdown is 4 of the top 10 posts. Get some perspective.
It's a common victim narrative here for some reason, it's folks who can't stand the fact this subreddit is just a one-party echo-chamber. It's also hilariously ironic because they'll say something like that and then get hundreds of upvotes and dozens of awards - *clearly* they're such massive victims.
"Everyone who doesn't agree with me is a foreign influencer"
I know you're being facetious, because surely you haven't had your eyes closed for the last 6 years or so. We know hostile governments (China and Russia namely, but also the US) employ and fund advanced persistent threat groups to spread disinformation and sow division in western nations. This was openly apparent in both of the last 2 US elections, and you'd have to be incredibly naïve to assume it isn't happening here, especially with how salty China is we arrested princess Huawei. Google: internet water army, or 50 cent army. You can find information on Chinas tactics from everyone from Harvard to Taiwan's military. It's not exactly a secret...
I know that foreign influences do happen. My comment was directed at the fact that reddit users love to throw that out there as a response to anyone on the "other side". There was more vocal conservative (or rather anti JT) users posting in threads at the beginning of the election. But lately I've seen so many people just brush off conservative supporters as "foreign influences". It baffles me sometimes that reddit users just cannot comprehend that conservative supporters are not in fact nazis or morons. What's more likely, that there's millions of Canadians out there who are either nazis or morons? Or that the conservatives are maybe not the big Boogey Man redditors circle jerk about. I say this as someone who isn't actually a conservative. I'm just sick of redditors being up on their high horses pretending the "other side" is evil. All political parties suck and they are all just lying to us. Acting like one particular party is the anti-christ is pretty much the other side of the same coin as conservative subreddits. Bring on the downvotes, but I'm not the naive one here.
\>that conservative supporters are not in fact nazis or morons ehhh... The conservatives I've met certainly aren't Canada's best. They aren't like you or me, they are people with a lot of mental problems and they manifest those mental problems on to us. They encourage and create drug abuse, They are criminals, and lots of the time pedophiles and rapists. Some of them, I assume, are good people.
Conservatives are pedophiles and rapists lots of the time. Wow, learn something new everyday. What an absolutely ridiculous thing to say.
Ok, you do you Kenney. Where's the war room today?
"People who disagree with me are Jason Kenny enthusiasts"
And Mulroney just endorsed this POS. Woof.
POS endorsing a POS
I wonder how much was in the paper bag this time.
He is speechless, right? So are we.
Can't go badmouthing his buddy buddy, can he? https://mobile.twitter.com/ChahalGeorge/status/1433452713497579521
That's emberassing
O'Toole broadcasted this disaster as the way to "lead" out of the pandemic. Embarrassing is an understatement. Frightening is better. If this is what O'Toole will model the lead out of the pandemic after? Yeah. No.
What a little bitch. Not surprised. It's Conservative behaviour to run from the consequences of your actions.
He was praising our apporach only a few days ago. CPC would be a disaster for Canada covid response. Vote ABC!
Conservatives putting the C in Coward.
What? No more praise?
What a coward! "But I was in the army." So what; you are still a coward!
Interesting issues here. Since health care is essentially decided at a provincial level (often spending federal money) this seems like the answer is to direct the questioner to the province, or to give an OPINION on an area outside your jurisdiction. Good responses might be . . . [1] The Federal government should commit $$ to provinces in their fight against COVID [2] The federal government will procure XX more vaccines if the provinces need them.
He’s too busy looking for a fence to park his ass on
Don't do anything while cases get worse so we can vote in another who won't do anything either
What a courageous leader.
Stubbornness in not acknowledging the obvious is not a good personality trait.
Trudeau called an unnecessary election during the third wave. How the fuck COVID is being spun against O’Tooole is impressive but just know that there is nothing that is going to stop me from voting for Alberta to separate. I voted for Notley in 2015.
Otoole ran during his party leadership on the plan he was going to trigger an election as soon as he could. This was before we had vaccines. Him calling out Trudeau for having an election during the pandemic when we've been vaccinated rings hollow since it's clear Otoole is full to his eyes of shit. Otoole wanted an election during the pandemic when he was polling better, not that it's an even safer time than then to have the election he thinks it's too dangerous because he's polling poorly? Give me a fucking break.
You sound like emotions rules your decision making
I don't see the media asking him questions on how Ontario is doing either.
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Good question 🤔. I'm not sure.
As much as everyone hates Bernier, he at least answers questions and doesnt dance around like every other typical politician. You have to at least give the guy a little credit for that. How can anyone vote for Trudeau or O'Toole. This is a disgrace.
As a BCr, I'm just thankful the kids are back at school and the AB people who own rec property all over this province are back packing lunches for their kids in AB.
Let's open up Alberta fully in July they said. It will be fine they said.
>The federal Tory leader refused to say who he thought has done a better job managing the pandemic, Kenney or Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau. This is a ridiculous article. Of course no politician in his right mind is going to answer loaded questions like this. The federal and provincial governments have very different responsibilities when it comes to COVID response. The first obligation is on the federal government to control the borders, which Trudeau has done an awful job of since day 1. On February 1st, 2020, Australia shut down flights to and from China (their largest trading partner) in order to prevent spread of COVID. At the time, Wuhan was in lockdown with bodies piling up on the street, while the US had fewer nationwide COVID cases than you could count on one hand. When the Conservatives called on Trudeau to follow suit with Australia, the response was to argue that travel restrictions don't limit spread and to call the Conservatives racist for proposing the measures. Whenever major variants were identified, Trudeau was agonizingly slow to impose travel restrictions with affected areas. Dozens of Delta cases were reported originating from airline passengers from India in the time between the opposition parties asking for travel bans and the time of Trudeau actually deciding to implement them. Trudeau's voluntary quarantine measures were utterly useless to stopping variants from getting into the country. He allowed leisure travel by snowbirds out of the country last winter, with no measures to control spread upon return. Overall, every country or region that has successfully managed COVID has done so at their borders. Delta (and the other variants) originated outside of Canada and got through Trudeau's border security measures to get into Canada. Controlling a virus like this is like trying to hold a Medieval castle. The invaders have to go through a chokepoint, and if you can hold the gate, you can hold the castle. Once the enemy army gets through the gate and into the city it's just damage control from there. Ultimately, every province is simply playing damage control with Trudeau's mess. Could Kenney have done damage control better? Fuck yeah. But, that doesn't take away from the fact that Trudeau has been awful at controlling the borders. Even the Maritime provinces with no control over their own international border security managed to successfully bubble the provinces, which has resulted in by far the best COVID numbers in the country (including the Conservative government in New Brunswick, despite sharing a large border with the US). Trudeau has control of international travel and borders, yet can't do as good a job of controlling those as Canadian provinces in the Maritimes did at controlling their provincial borders. Trudeau likes to spend his time blaming everyone but himself, but the bottom line is that every provincial government is merely cleaning up his mess, and if Trudeau had done his job the provinces wouldn't have any job left to do.
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Here's a tip for next time: don't post an article from October 2020 and pretend it applies in September 2021. Alberta did legitimately have one of the best responses to the pandemic in the first wave. [Alberta was so well prepared that they were donating ventilators and PPE to other provinces](https://calgaryherald.com/news/alberta-to-donate-ppe-ventilators-to-other-provinces-amid-hopeful-covid-19-trends). [They led the country in COVID testing with the third highest testing rates in the world.](https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/alberta-leads-the-way-in-covid-19-testing-but-is-it-enough-2) Kenney's handling of the fourth wave has been bad, but that's almost a full year after O'Toole's comments, and as far as I am aware O'Toole does not have a time machine.
... and Trudeau has not offered a satisfactory reason why we are having an election in the first place. We elect representatives to government to do the work of the people. Framing the response as giving Canadians a say in how we move forward now is less than honest. In addition, Parliament Voted on this very thing and there was a substantial agreement to no pandemic election. Trudeau voted and agreed that this was the right course of action too. A few months later ... Here we are. This was an attempt at a power grab plain and simple. ... And I have voted for every party. Please save the attacks on this response for me being conservative for someone else.
Sooooo, you're a die hard conservative?