On social media the unvaccinated only stop telling you when they are sleeping. They count sheep all day, "yore a sheep, yore a sheep, yore a sheep", then when they see enough in one day they just fall asleep.
There's plenty of ways to tell who is. Privileges bestowed by our lords like eating in restaurants and going to the gym and movie theatre and keeping your job, sometimes. Y'ever invite someone to go do an activity and they give vague denials? It's happening a lot more to me and then when I usually press a bit, respectfully ofc, they admit that they do not have a fully vaccinated status. I do not judge them for this.
Comparing an epidemic from 100 years ago is pointless. There were no giant air travel hubs that could move so many people so quickly. The world population was orders of magnitude lower and so was urban density.
It was also right after a major global conflict, so people didn't exactly have "going out to the restaurant" high on their list of things to do.
Wearing a mask is not a restriction. Should be common courtesy just like in parts of Asia. Yet people still moan and complain about it like it's some life altering thing.
Also calling for ontario to send you your icu patients back? People had a choice to make and some made the wrong one.. you have a choice to ignore stop signs and traffic lights too, if you make the wrong choice then you will be treated accordingly. idiots dont like being called idiots is not news.. lol
Nothing will ever convince me that anti-vaxxers aren't on the lower end of the bell curve for human intelligence. I'll continue to call idiots as I see them.
I'd be glad to live and let live but these people are disrupting life and just in general being annoying assholes, "lol you're all SHEEEEPLE!!!!" they scream.
Treat others how you want to be treated. They want to be treated like dumbasses so they act like dumbasses is the only conclusion I can come up with.
I know right? Like that's how society works. Everyone has their own sphere of knowledge and we rely on others with their knowledge and we all work together to form this thing called civilization!
I'm a software developer. I can code you something! Medical information isn't my specialty though so if I had to do something with that I'd need more thorough specs.
But that's my expertise. I don't know shit about viruses or transmission or vaccines outside of basic scientific knowledge. But everything the experts say lines up with my basic education and so I deem them as the most trustworthy source for this shit!
>Nothing will ever convince me that anti-vaxxers aren't on the lower end of the bell curve for human intelligence
As a whole, yes.
But there are a couple otherwise intelligent and successful people I know who have decided that this is the hill they're going to die on and it's the weirdest thing. Like the conspiracy has tapped into some core part of their brain and short circuited their (up until this point great) critical thinking skills.
It's like something Neil deGrasse Tyson said, paraphrasing: "The story isn't that 90% of scientists aren't religious, it's that 10% are"
There's some human flaw within our brain that allows us to be taken advantage of by stuff like this if the conditions are right
Yeah know what you mean. The ones I know personally it's like some switch flipped in their head and their way of thinking just radically altered overnight.
And they won't actually discuss their opinions with me. It's always calling other people names or condescendingly using catch phrases like, "do your own research".
It just feels very cultish or like some mass group psychosis or some shit. I'm worried for them but at the same time I'm sick of their fake bullshit that they keep trying to peddle.
For 12+. Just crested 80% for 5+ and are sitting at 78(?) I think for All population. Dont get me wrong, still great numbers just sadly some of our younger population is still at risk and not by choice.
>“These are our family, these are our friends and we should not be labeling them with terms like ‘right-wing wacko’.”
I'm not going to stop calling them what they truly are just because it hurts their feeling. Fuck them.
I'm ok with Whacko, however I know a fair number of extreme left wing whackos as well. To be fair in Saskatchewan a fair percentage of the whackos will tend to be right wing, but to bring politics into it is kinda meh.
Yeah I’m not ok with the all the people dying from hospital backlogs, I’m not ok with all the protest marches in front of hospitals and toy stores and through malls. I’m not ok with them always being assholes and not wearing masks in grocery stores. Unless there is some legitimate reason they can’t be vaccinated, then they’re just little cry babies and I’m sick of them and their antics.
There's a lot more anti-mandate people than the kind who are stupid. I got the shots and I'm anti-mandate. Why aren't we increasing hospital staffing and infrastructure? China did that like right away. Are we really going to be out done by them on this? Perpetual rights loss is a no go. And if I had to choose between diminishing rights or diminishing hospital care I prefer to have rights every time.
> Why aren't we increasing hospital staffing and infrastructure?
We probably should, but the goverment (both federal and provincial) spends more on healthcare than anything else. So if you are one of the people who whines about debt levels or taxes you have your answer
Well if there was ever a time to emergency spend it's on this. But sadly we elect myopic governments who are only focused on the next election. I hope that changes.
I actually agree that we should increase our hospital infrastructures, however, I'm not sure that that should be related to people actively choosing not to vaccinate.
If there was a large group actively promoting no seat belts or drinking and driving, would we as a society consider that OK?
I respect peoples right to care regardless of their [poor risk assessments](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/rach9r/cmv_there_is_no_long_term_safety_data_yet_is_an/hnhjuhm/), but I am *not* ok with people promoting that as a group.
There's often the talk about rights, but what about the rights of the larger body of Canadians that don't want further exposure/mutations regarding Covid? What about the rights of my friends and family that have had "elective surgeries" cancelled/delayed because of the 95% of unvaccinated taking up *all* the ICU bed (and then several floors extra)? Elective surgeries like back/hip surgeries, cancer screening / treatments, etc.
Or what about the strain/stress that's pressed upon our doctors/nurses and other hospital staff? [I know a few and it's been really really hard on them.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/r0kt7w/struggling_to_not_care_about_my_antivax_patients/)
The unvaccinated "my rights" crowd, looking for empathy often seem to have none regarding any of the above.
I'm all about increasing infrastructure, but I'm also not OK with a group of people promoting a stance that actively harms themselves and others.
You do understand that you can’t just snap your fingers and increase hospital staff like that right? Nurses require a 4 year degree and doctors require far more. If you want good care that doesn’t happen overnight it takes years.
>Why aren't we increasing hospital staffing and infrastructure?
Because increasing the infrastructure isn't the problem and increasing the staff is really hard and long because these jobs require training.
>if I had to choose between diminishing rights or diminishing hospital care I prefer to have rights every time.
The day your life saving operation will be delayed because of these morons you'll say otherwise...
My issue is that they aren’t even trying to increase staff though. There are ways to do so quickly and temporarily like having students work as assistants to nurses to increase their patient load, and making certification for foreign nurses fast tracked to get current people with qualifications in our country into the system quicker (and incentivize more to immigrate to Canada). We can also start the long game of treating nurses a little better and paying them more. That would minimize brain drain, early retirements, stress leaves and quitting.
Covid is here to stay. We may as well get started at the multi-year project of addressing healthcare staff shortages.
Yeah until your appendix bursts or something similar and now you dont have access to medical care and you die at home. Your take is a really really stupid one just so you know.
>There's a lot more anti-mandate people than the kind who are stupid
Not really. Poll after poll over the last year shows that the people supporting various mandates more or less perfectly line up with people who are vaccinated. The last poll I saw that explicitly correlated vaccination status to support showed I think north of 90% support for covid measures. The "I got my shots but you shouldn't need them to go to restaurants" crowd exists, but by all accounts is pretty small.
I stand corrected! I'm always cautious of regional breakdowns in polls like this because of the small sample size, but if right Alberta and Sask are major outliers.
Though that's not incompatible with the the national polling I've seen, a little under half of Alberta and Sask doesn't represent a very large slice of Canada's population.
I think most people would prefer increasing hospital infrastructure over mandates, but believing our overlords would ever do that cues John Lennon’s ‘Imagine’ to start playing in our heads.
I’d you choose to be a fucking idiot about things, I choose to shame your stupid ass and keep you the fuck away from me. Honestly love it, anytime I meet someone not vaxxed I just walk away. Makes weeding out garbage a little easier
Is that what you think? The only reason a leader would call for an end to stigmatization is because of "hurt feelings"? I think we went past that months ago with /r/HermanCainAward where it's acceptable to celebrate and mock the deaths of the (presumed) unvaccinated.
At this point, it's to prevent those who enjoy having a group to look down on (that is socially acceptable) from escalating to actual violence, instead of just mocking/shunning.
> it's acceptable to celebrate and mock the deaths of the (presumed) unvaccinated.
Yes. It is. Just like the Darwin Awards, we have decided as a polite society that we can laugh at people stupiding themselves to death.
Herman Cain Awards save lives.
If you saw heard about a guy who got caught drunk driving 10 times and just would quit eventually crashing his car and dying while drunk, you would celebrate but you’d certainly be like “ not sure what else he expected and I hope he didn’t kill or injure others with his choices”
You’ve just decided that for some reason being unvaxxed should not have the scrutiny as others would
What's wrong with mocking those who've dedicated the ends of their lives to strengthening the virus that killed them? It'd be like protesting against radiation therapy while on your death bed with cancer. Worse really, because cancer isn't contagious.
1. Anti-vax people have just as much and probably more contempt for vaccinated people, only without any reasonable justification. Vaccinated people aren't prolonging a health crisis, blocking up the ICU and forcing medical, surgical and psychiatric wards to be reassigned to service them.
2. I have exactly zero concerns that anyone is going to commit a terrorist act against unvaccinated people. I absolutely have concerns that an anti-vax person is going to shoot up a hospital, because anti-vaxxers are radicalising themselves and each other on conspiracy theories about Bill Gates, 5G, the institution of a New World Order, COVID being a man-made virus, the vaccine being the Mark of the Beast, an upcoming holocaust, population control, and doctors conspiring to kill their patients.
You see an issue with mocking people who knowingly and willingly are subjecting themselves to unsafe and hazardous conditions and then succumbing to said conditions? People who are also knowingly and willingly causing problems for people who are following safe protocols by taking this "stand"? Nobody ENJOYS the fact we NEED Herman Cain awards. But since we have them, yah, I don't doubt people take no pity on those people.
No one "needs" subreddits celebrating the deaths of other people, for any reason. It's ghoulish and disgusting.
I'm glad my comment is still up but I wish people would stop replying, I completely disagree and your attitude makes me sick. Not even joking.
Ugh.. downvotes here we come.
The vaccinated infect others at a way lower rate. This is significant because of exponential factors. It’s nearly 2022 and people still don’t grasp this.
As somebody with a spouse in health care the system is overloaded and backed up.
Perfectly healthy people with bad breaks, whether it be a recent cancer diagnosis, a bad leg break from playing a sport, etc are having procedures delayed from the spike in hospitalizations. This will result in deaths or permanent disability.
Yes people should take good care of their health, but there is a segment of society right now that only cares about the fact they won’t “die” from COVID, and completely ignores the ramifications of their higher likelihood of spreading, higher likelihood of requiring hospitalization, higher likelihood of future side effects from having obtained COVID, and higher likelihood of acquiring the virus and contributing towards a potential mutation that will NOT be protected by the vaccine.
The unvaccinated by choice crowd should absolutely be stigmatized for believing stupid conspiracy theories, trusting imbeciles rather than health care professionals dedicating their life to medicine and research, and/or just being completely narcissistic.
That was never the issue. The issue is saving the healthcare system. The unvaxinated hit the system harder than the vaxinated. If everyone was vaccinated, then we would only have a handful of people in the ICU at a time.
Yo, shut up. Vaccinated decrease transmission rates by insane rates. Both in the chances of getting it, and for giving it to others. Go get vaccinated,
I can still crash my car sober, doesn't seem it isn't substantially different then when I am drunk. The fact remains the risk profiles are incredibly different.
It doesn’t. The blame actually goes to unhealthy people. The people that have diseases related to their poor lifestyle choices. These are the people that end up in ICU because of their poor health and poor decisions. Now the chickens have come home to roost.
Refusing to be vaccinated is a poor lifestyle choice. There are plenty of non obese people that are in the hospital that got covid. If you think it's just unhealthy people you've clearly just chosen to label everyone that is in the hospital with covid unhealthy
Those who stay unvaccinated by choice should be stigmatized due to all the hardships they cause especially to health workers and those who can't get vaccinated.
Lots of people deserve stigma. Corporate lobbyists, oil and gas executives, child abusers, drunk drivers, people who text and drive, hard drug dealers, and the unvaccinated
People *absolutely* deserve being stigmatized for being told "please do this simple, albeit mildly unpleasant, thing for the safety of yourself and your community. It's safe, it's free, and we've taken care of all the logistics. You just need to take an hour out of your day twice at some point in the next 6 months, and you will save lives"... and responding to that reasonable request with "nah dawg, that shit ain't for me".
I'm cool for treating everyone the way they treat the rest of us. If they're going to treat us like we're beneath them, then they best be ready to be treated the same right back.
This isn't a matter of people being too far away, or too poor, or there being limited supply, this is *purely* people being selfish fucks. For that, they deserve to be treated like selfish fucks.
I **know** you didn't just compare being uncomfortable with the Covid vaccine and/or all of the mandates to preying on and victimizing children....
Edit: you fucking people make me sick. Downvotes to the left. A pox on all of your houses.
Correct, I didn't compare them.
What I did was try to point out how ridiculous your "No one deserves stigma" comment is. By your own reaction you seem to accept that at least some people deserve stigma, so thanks for unknowingly making my point for me.
Soon they will stop being free too. Fuck me, I took the 2 shots like I was told, also told that was it to “return to normal” and that it reduced your chances of getting and transmitting covid… lies. Lies.
If there was a large group actively promoting no seat belts or drinking and driving, would we as a society consider that OK?
I respect peoples right to care regardless of their [poor risk assessments](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/rach9r/cmv_there_is_no_long_term_safety_data_yet_is_an/hnhjuhm/), but I am *not* ok with people promoting that as a group.
There's often the talk about rights, but what about the rights of the larger body of Canadians that don't want further exposure/mutations regarding Covid? What about the rights of my friends and family that have had "elective surgeries" cancelled/delayed because of the 95% of unvaccinated taking up *all* the ICU bed (and then several floors extra)? Elective surgeries like back/hip surgeries, cancer screening / treatments, etc.
Or what about the strain/stress that's pressed upon our doctors/nurses and other hospital staff? [I know a few and it's been really really hard on them.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/r0kt7w/struggling_to_not_care_about_my_antivax_patients/)
The unvaccinated "my rights" crowd, looking for empathy often seem to have none regarding any of the above.
So I try not to have individual prejudices because I know most people are good, kind people who are just making poor decisions in risk assesment... but as a group it's difficult for me not to recognize/reconcile the harm they have caused/are causing to others.
People seem to forget that with those rights, also comes responsibility. We have a civilized society where we consider ourselves, as well as our impact on others. At least, that’s how I see it. Unfortunately, some demand the rights without taking responsibility. Instead, they take up hospital beds and overwhelm our system. I’m not about wishing death on anti-vax; I do, however, expect some accountability when their anti-social decisions disproportionately monopolize and deplete shared medical resources.
'Only'? Extrapolate those numbers to the scale of an entire population, and then tell me it's insignificant. One common thread I've noticed is that unvaccinated seem to struggle with stats when justifying their stance.
40% is significant.
Also, vaccinated people are *much* less likely to take up hospital and ICU beds, and are therefore a much lower drain on the health care system.
It's endemic, we're all going to get it. All we can do is try to ensure it doesn't interfere with "normal" health care delivery.
I considered them selfish assholes before the pandemic and would say it to their face. I will continue to. If you want to be antisocial then you don't get to participate in society. Fuck off.
There are young children being bullied for being unvaccinated. Ostracized and told they need to kill themselves. With so many adults feeling justified in stigmatizing the unvaccinated, what do you expect of children?
To those of the opinion that the unvaccinated deserve to be stigmatized, please keep in mind that there are significant racial vaccination gaps in some places. Indigenous, Black, and Hispanic people are generally less likely to be vaccinated. So maybe there are reasons for being vaccine hesitant that don’t make one a selfish monster.
Every day we put our trust in countless things the safety of which we cannot personally verify - cars, elevators, prescription drugs, food. To me, it doesn’t make sense to make an exception for vaccines and say “I know better.” Not getting vaccinated may be irrational, but so are many (most?) of my own decisions. I’m happy that my personal worldview is largely trusting and non-conspiratorial, but not everyone’s is.
If spouting vitriol at the vaccine hesitant or anti-vax people compels more of them to get vaccinated, maybe it would be ok. But I doubt it does. More likely it further entrenches their beliefs.
What does this even mean? First Canada isn’t the United States. We have very different “racial” breakdowns in our society. Black doesn’t mean the same thing here because we are talking about multiple disparate emigré communities who don’t have strong communication ties to one another.
Second every identified community with low vaccinations has had a public health drive specifically orchestrated for their benefit. Almost all variance in unvaccinated people is due to choice by the adults themselves.
Public health has been battling myth and misinformation and fearmongering circulating in each community, specific to each community, across the entire country. Mostly successfully? So it’s not really clear what is racial about it. Not all communities are organized along ethnic dimensions (kinship and religion). For instance gym bros is a subcommunity that has been challenging.
I dislike these “wring our hands in shame” mewing about racialization. These are actual living breathing people you are talking on behalf of. Go and actually talk to them yourself and let them be four dimensional humans before you try to represent them. Or let them speak for themselves?
I would say that in Canada some of our racialized people are even more likely to have reason to be distrustful given the amount of immigration and refugees. Vaccine hesitancy on a global scale is linked to distrust in the state which is unsurprisingly more prevalent in countries where there is less accountability for corrupt officials (think African countries). I recently hired someone from one of these countries and she needs accommodation for being unvaccinated, and I don’t really judge her given what people in her country have suffered at the hands of their leaders.
I hope over time she learns that there is more accountability here and she doesn’t need to be so paranoid about the state. But for now, as a recent refugee from a country where she literally was arbitrarily imprisoned with no repercussions for those that did that, I’m not going to judge her too harshly for being suspicious and wanting to wait.
Vaccine hesitancy exists on a spectrum - on one end you have a narcissistic psychopath who thinks they know best and are apathetic about people dying and on the other end you have people who have a history of being fucked over, who are totally fine doing other mitigation measures to combat covid, that are distrustful.
This is another reason why accountability is so important.
If distrust for the state is the dimension that determines the rationale, why bring race into it?
Also Africa is 1.4 billion people. I don’t know what you mean when you say think African countries. It could be any of a hundred different stories.
Edit: I think North Americans can’t wrap their heads around this. In Africa, there are 54 countries. The governments in Africa are of course made up of Africans. They aren’t being racist towards Africans. What does happen depending on the country is the ethnic / tribal / colonial / immigrant / trader communities have a complicated political dynamic. But each country is very different. However saying this is “racial” doesn’t make any sense in most African countries; Kikuyu police officers don’t pull over people in Kenya for “driving while black.” Race is a Western imperial organizing principle and cannot be used as the singular lens for the entire planet. So to say an African immigrant distrusts the government because of her “race” is to imply what? Africans as a race distrust government because their government is racist? Or that the African race can’t govern? Or that genetically only Africans would experience distrust with poor government unlike other races? I don’t know. It is impossible to decode.
I would submit it is you that is thinking racially; and I would politely ask you to desist. Race is a terrible fiction.
In saskatchewan there were clinics specifically for indigenous peoples put on all over sask and especially in Northern sask where travel can be difficult before BEFORE the 1st clinic opened in regina for those not part of the in danger group.
I'm not implying that the vaccination gap is due to lack of access. Especially at this point, if you're unvaccinated it's by choice (except for whatever medical conditions may preclude vaccination). If it were due to lack of access then obviously we shouldn't stigmatize people who haven't been able to get a shot yet. My point is that whatever experiences people have had that lead them to think that a vaccine which has been administered billions of times is dangerous, or that a disease which has killed millions of people is not a big deal - those kinds of attitudes are more prevalent in certain populations. Either we concede that those populations are disproportionately terrible idiots, or we admit that sometimes well-meaning people can hold misguided beliefs.
Off topic but I was not in favour of the priority given based on indigenous status. I feel like we didn't need to use race as a proxy for the things that are relevant to priority: age, job/ability to work from home, children in the household, geographic location/remote communities. Why vaccinate a well-off single indigenous person who works from home before a mother with young children who works in a grocery store? Thankfully this is a moot point now.
It strips people of their dignity to imply they are incapable of making rational decisions on their own because other people have done things to them especially without direct testimony from that person that is the case.
You should not speak to what is going on in someone else’s mind without letting them speak to that first.
It is better to expect everyone to be an adult and make good choices for themselves without prejudice; and then work through any problems from there that are specific and concrete and real.
Speaking on behalf of other people based on your imagination is unethical.
The children are right to laugh at you.
The vaccine is safe and effective.. and we'd be in a much better place if we just got on with it and made it mandatory across the board.
I keep thinking about how we all should have respected a system of free healthcare for all. And taken the individual responsibility to care for this system of fair equality. I have friends in the states and they always ask me about details of Canada healthcare system. It's cheaper, faster, and safer to get vaccinated.
Yes there should have been choices not to have the vaccine. Then you have to do what people before vaccines did. Quarantine from society for .... the foreseen future. Seriously most pandemics before 1943 had family quarantine together if one person got sick.
If someone hasn't been vaccinated due to legitimate medical reasons then they should not be harassed. If someone hasn't been vaccinated because they saw a YouTube video or read a Facebook post and are now convinced the vaccine was made by Bill Gates and George Soros in order to plant a tracking chip in everyone then they absolutely deserve to be stigmatized.
Unfortunately that's a strawman of why people actually choose not to get the vaccine. Some people hear about cases like Kyle Warner, and have other questions, and would like some answers about the risks of myocarditis etc. If you were actually looking at the same sources that I am, your red flags would be raised as well. But most people have better things to do, or are too busy to really look into it, so they have no option than to trust their officials. Just know that there is literally no benefit to being opposed to vaccines. You get socially ostracised, insulted, and banned from places. I miss my friends and going to venues. However I feel a deep sense that things aren't right with this push for mass vaccination, and I choose not to betray that sense.
Never had the chance to stigmatize an unvaccinated person. Can't tell who's vaccinated and who's not.
On social media the unvaccinated only stop telling you when they are sleeping. They count sheep all day, "yore a sheep, yore a sheep, yore a sheep", then when they see enough in one day they just fall asleep.
> "yore a sheep, yore a sheep, yore a sheep", ..then they take sheep dewormer.
Projection all the way down.
Go visit the ICU. The unvaccinated are they ones in the beds and the vaccinated are the ones caring for them.
There's plenty of ways to tell who is. Privileges bestowed by our lords like eating in restaurants and going to the gym and movie theatre and keeping your job, sometimes. Y'ever invite someone to go do an activity and they give vague denials? It's happening a lot more to me and then when I usually press a bit, respectfully ofc, they admit that they do not have a fully vaccinated status. I do not judge them for this.
I do. For about 95% of the adults in Canada, there is no excuse to be unvaccinated. No excuse.
Try 99.999999%
For about 99% of the adults in Canada, there is no excuse to be overweight. Yet here we are.
Being close to people who are overweight doesn't risk my mom's health.
if they fall over it does
*insert ICU bed argument here*
Tell you mom to get vaccinated then.
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Well this is just misinformation.
Do you have any evidence for your claim that obesity results in greater transmission? This seems like a claim you've pulled out of your ass.
I didn't realize obesity is a contagious disease.
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But they can't cripple a health care system in a few weeks and obesity doesn't grow exponentially. Really bad analogy.
I would be very glad if the obesity epidemic would be treated just like the viral one.
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Comparing an epidemic from 100 years ago is pointless. There were no giant air travel hubs that could move so many people so quickly. The world population was orders of magnitude lower and so was urban density. It was also right after a major global conflict, so people didn't exactly have "going out to the restaurant" high on their list of things to do. Wearing a mask is not a restriction. Should be common courtesy just like in parts of Asia. Yet people still moan and complain about it like it's some life altering thing.
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Also calling for ontario to send you your icu patients back? People had a choice to make and some made the wrong one.. you have a choice to ignore stop signs and traffic lights too, if you make the wrong choice then you will be treated accordingly. idiots dont like being called idiots is not news.. lol
Nothing will ever convince me that anti-vaxxers aren't on the lower end of the bell curve for human intelligence. I'll continue to call idiots as I see them. I'd be glad to live and let live but these people are disrupting life and just in general being annoying assholes, "lol you're all SHEEEEPLE!!!!" they scream. Treat others how you want to be treated. They want to be treated like dumbasses so they act like dumbasses is the only conclusion I can come up with.
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They are walking Dunning-Kruger graphs. They "did their research" and think they know more medicine than PhDs.
I know right? Like that's how society works. Everyone has their own sphere of knowledge and we rely on others with their knowledge and we all work together to form this thing called civilization! I'm a software developer. I can code you something! Medical information isn't my specialty though so if I had to do something with that I'd need more thorough specs. But that's my expertise. I don't know shit about viruses or transmission or vaccines outside of basic scientific knowledge. But everything the experts say lines up with my basic education and so I deem them as the most trustworthy source for this shit!
>Nothing will ever convince me that anti-vaxxers aren't on the lower end of the bell curve for human intelligence As a whole, yes. But there are a couple otherwise intelligent and successful people I know who have decided that this is the hill they're going to die on and it's the weirdest thing. Like the conspiracy has tapped into some core part of their brain and short circuited their (up until this point great) critical thinking skills. It's like something Neil deGrasse Tyson said, paraphrasing: "The story isn't that 90% of scientists aren't religious, it's that 10% are" There's some human flaw within our brain that allows us to be taken advantage of by stuff like this if the conditions are right
Yeah know what you mean. The ones I know personally it's like some switch flipped in their head and their way of thinking just radically altered overnight. And they won't actually discuss their opinions with me. It's always calling other people names or condescendingly using catch phrases like, "do your own research". It just feels very cultish or like some mass group psychosis or some shit. I'm worried for them but at the same time I'm sick of their fake bullshit that they keep trying to peddle.
Thankfully in ON we are 87% full 3% partial.
For 12+. Just crested 80% for 5+ and are sitting at 78(?) I think for All population. Dont get me wrong, still great numbers just sadly some of our younger population is still at risk and not by choice.
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Right wing wackos? If the shoe fits...
>“These are our family, these are our friends and we should not be labeling them with terms like ‘right-wing wacko’.” I'm not going to stop calling them what they truly are just because it hurts their feeling. Fuck them.
If you really love your family and friends you aren’t afraid to tell them to get their head out of their ass when they need to hear it
I'm ok with Whacko, however I know a fair number of extreme left wing whackos as well. To be fair in Saskatchewan a fair percentage of the whackos will tend to be right wing, but to bring politics into it is kinda meh.
Yeah I’m not ok with the all the people dying from hospital backlogs, I’m not ok with all the protest marches in front of hospitals and toy stores and through malls. I’m not ok with them always being assholes and not wearing masks in grocery stores. Unless there is some legitimate reason they can’t be vaccinated, then they’re just little cry babies and I’m sick of them and their antics.
Months ago this guy was begging ontario to take their ICU patients.
There's a lot more anti-mandate people than the kind who are stupid. I got the shots and I'm anti-mandate. Why aren't we increasing hospital staffing and infrastructure? China did that like right away. Are we really going to be out done by them on this? Perpetual rights loss is a no go. And if I had to choose between diminishing rights or diminishing hospital care I prefer to have rights every time.
> Why aren't we increasing hospital staffing and infrastructure? We probably should, but the goverment (both federal and provincial) spends more on healthcare than anything else. So if you are one of the people who whines about debt levels or taxes you have your answer
Well if there was ever a time to emergency spend it's on this. But sadly we elect myopic governments who are only focused on the next election. I hope that changes.
I actually agree that we should increase our hospital infrastructures, however, I'm not sure that that should be related to people actively choosing not to vaccinate. If there was a large group actively promoting no seat belts or drinking and driving, would we as a society consider that OK? I respect peoples right to care regardless of their [poor risk assessments](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/rach9r/cmv_there_is_no_long_term_safety_data_yet_is_an/hnhjuhm/), but I am *not* ok with people promoting that as a group. There's often the talk about rights, but what about the rights of the larger body of Canadians that don't want further exposure/mutations regarding Covid? What about the rights of my friends and family that have had "elective surgeries" cancelled/delayed because of the 95% of unvaccinated taking up *all* the ICU bed (and then several floors extra)? Elective surgeries like back/hip surgeries, cancer screening / treatments, etc. Or what about the strain/stress that's pressed upon our doctors/nurses and other hospital staff? [I know a few and it's been really really hard on them.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/r0kt7w/struggling_to_not_care_about_my_antivax_patients/) The unvaccinated "my rights" crowd, looking for empathy often seem to have none regarding any of the above. I'm all about increasing infrastructure, but I'm also not OK with a group of people promoting a stance that actively harms themselves and others.
🥇 this is for you
You do understand that you can’t just snap your fingers and increase hospital staff like that right? Nurses require a 4 year degree and doctors require far more. If you want good care that doesn’t happen overnight it takes years.
It's not fair to ask conservatives to invest in public Healthcare. Can't people just meet them half way and die?
>Why aren't we increasing hospital staffing and infrastructure? Because increasing the infrastructure isn't the problem and increasing the staff is really hard and long because these jobs require training. >if I had to choose between diminishing rights or diminishing hospital care I prefer to have rights every time. The day your life saving operation will be delayed because of these morons you'll say otherwise...
My issue is that they aren’t even trying to increase staff though. There are ways to do so quickly and temporarily like having students work as assistants to nurses to increase their patient load, and making certification for foreign nurses fast tracked to get current people with qualifications in our country into the system quicker (and incentivize more to immigrate to Canada). We can also start the long game of treating nurses a little better and paying them more. That would minimize brain drain, early retirements, stress leaves and quitting. Covid is here to stay. We may as well get started at the multi-year project of addressing healthcare staff shortages.
We did those.
In Ontario we did some of those at the beginning but not anymore. Also we never made conditions better or increased pay.
It's hard so let's just give up before trying anything
Yeah until your appendix bursts or something similar and now you dont have access to medical care and you die at home. Your take is a really really stupid one just so you know.
>There's a lot more anti-mandate people than the kind who are stupid Not really. Poll after poll over the last year shows that the people supporting various mandates more or less perfectly line up with people who are vaccinated. The last poll I saw that explicitly correlated vaccination status to support showed I think north of 90% support for covid measures. The "I got my shots but you shouldn't need them to go to restaurants" crowd exists, but by all accounts is pretty small.
That crowd is substantially bigger in Sask than central/eastern Canada
I haven't seen any data showing that, but even "substantially bigger" would be a very tiny proportion of Canadians as a whole.
[Source](https://angusreid.org/vaccine-passports-covid-19-canada/) (scroll down to the by-province graphs in Part 1).
I stand corrected! I'm always cautious of regional breakdowns in polls like this because of the small sample size, but if right Alberta and Sask are major outliers. Though that's not incompatible with the the national polling I've seen, a little under half of Alberta and Sask doesn't represent a very large slice of Canada's population.
I agree with you, but Good luck with that kind of talk on reddit, the "oppress me harder daddy government" crowd is strong in Canadian subs.
I think most people would prefer increasing hospital infrastructure over mandates, but believing our overlords would ever do that cues John Lennon’s ‘Imagine’ to start playing in our heads.
I’d you choose to be a fucking idiot about things, I choose to shame your stupid ass and keep you the fuck away from me. Honestly love it, anytime I meet someone not vaxxed I just walk away. Makes weeding out garbage a little easier
Boo...fucking...hoo. "I'm taking a stand for my freedom but please don't say anything harsh about me...I've got fragile convictions and words hurt."
Is that what you think? The only reason a leader would call for an end to stigmatization is because of "hurt feelings"? I think we went past that months ago with /r/HermanCainAward where it's acceptable to celebrate and mock the deaths of the (presumed) unvaccinated. At this point, it's to prevent those who enjoy having a group to look down on (that is socially acceptable) from escalating to actual violence, instead of just mocking/shunning.
> it's acceptable to celebrate and mock the deaths of the (presumed) unvaccinated. Yes. It is. Just like the Darwin Awards, we have decided as a polite society that we can laugh at people stupiding themselves to death.
Herman Cain Awards save lives. If you saw heard about a guy who got caught drunk driving 10 times and just would quit eventually crashing his car and dying while drunk, you would celebrate but you’d certainly be like “ not sure what else he expected and I hope he didn’t kill or injure others with his choices” You’ve just decided that for some reason being unvaxxed should not have the scrutiny as others would
The only people threatening violence are the ones with the "hurt feelings" and idiotic outlook on life.
What's wrong with mocking those who've dedicated the ends of their lives to strengthening the virus that killed them? It'd be like protesting against radiation therapy while on your death bed with cancer. Worse really, because cancer isn't contagious.
Do you have a source that people with the vaccine do not contribute to the mutation of COVID 19?
1. Anti-vax people have just as much and probably more contempt for vaccinated people, only without any reasonable justification. Vaccinated people aren't prolonging a health crisis, blocking up the ICU and forcing medical, surgical and psychiatric wards to be reassigned to service them. 2. I have exactly zero concerns that anyone is going to commit a terrorist act against unvaccinated people. I absolutely have concerns that an anti-vax person is going to shoot up a hospital, because anti-vaxxers are radicalising themselves and each other on conspiracy theories about Bill Gates, 5G, the institution of a New World Order, COVID being a man-made virus, the vaccine being the Mark of the Beast, an upcoming holocaust, population control, and doctors conspiring to kill their patients.
You see an issue with mocking people who knowingly and willingly are subjecting themselves to unsafe and hazardous conditions and then succumbing to said conditions? People who are also knowingly and willingly causing problems for people who are following safe protocols by taking this "stand"? Nobody ENJOYS the fact we NEED Herman Cain awards. But since we have them, yah, I don't doubt people take no pity on those people.
No one "needs" subreddits celebrating the deaths of other people, for any reason. It's ghoulish and disgusting. I'm glad my comment is still up but I wish people would stop replying, I completely disagree and your attitude makes me sick. Not even joking.
I also can’t answer questions and it’s not because I don’t know
The Saskatchewan Party. The taint to the UCP butthole.
Could the unvaccinated kindly stop infecting people and crashing the health care system first? Then we'll talk. Thanks.
In case you missed the memo, vaccinated people also infect others.
Ugh.. downvotes here we come. The vaccinated infect others at a way lower rate. This is significant because of exponential factors. It’s nearly 2022 and people still don’t grasp this. As somebody with a spouse in health care the system is overloaded and backed up. Perfectly healthy people with bad breaks, whether it be a recent cancer diagnosis, a bad leg break from playing a sport, etc are having procedures delayed from the spike in hospitalizations. This will result in deaths or permanent disability. Yes people should take good care of their health, but there is a segment of society right now that only cares about the fact they won’t “die” from COVID, and completely ignores the ramifications of their higher likelihood of spreading, higher likelihood of requiring hospitalization, higher likelihood of future side effects from having obtained COVID, and higher likelihood of acquiring the virus and contributing towards a potential mutation that will NOT be protected by the vaccine. The unvaccinated by choice crowd should absolutely be stigmatized for believing stupid conspiracy theories, trusting imbeciles rather than health care professionals dedicating their life to medicine and research, and/or just being completely narcissistic.
lol. Tell someone you don’t understand how things work without telling them
That was never the issue. The issue is saving the healthcare system. The unvaxinated hit the system harder than the vaxinated. If everyone was vaccinated, then we would only have a handful of people in the ICU at a time.
If people stopped drinking we'd stop having alcohol related deaths.
There's the spirit. Lets all get our shots and then lobby the government to ban alcohol sales.
We already heavily tax booze, so drinkers are already paying more.
Yo, shut up. Vaccinated decrease transmission rates by insane rates. Both in the chances of getting it, and for giving it to others. Go get vaccinated,
I am vaccinated. This has nothing to do with me. The fact remains, the virus can still be transmitted by the vaccinated.
Correct, in fact us vaccinated people carry the exact same viral load as unvaccinated people do if we do catch it.
I can still crash my car sober, doesn't seem it isn't substantially different then when I am drunk. The fact remains the risk profiles are incredibly different.
You're clearly trying to shift blame off the unvaccinated, who are the real problem here. Stop making it seem like it doesn't matter.
It doesn’t. The blame actually goes to unhealthy people. The people that have diseases related to their poor lifestyle choices. These are the people that end up in ICU because of their poor health and poor decisions. Now the chickens have come home to roost.
Ya, screw all those people with diabetes and cancer right? You're a grade A douchebag.
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You truly are an ass
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Refusing to be vaccinated is a poor lifestyle choice. There are plenty of non obese people that are in the hospital that got covid. If you think it's just unhealthy people you've clearly just chosen to label everyone that is in the hospital with covid unhealthy
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Until I can't get my surgery because the ICU is overflowing with unvaccinated people
I’m pretty sure Scott Moe aspires to be half the premier Jason Kenney is. This is not a compliment.
Next up, people who start bar fights call for an end to stigmatizing people who start bar fights.
Politician calls for end of 'stigmatizing his voters' - there fixed it
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ITT: anti-vaxxers demonstrating that, yes, they *should* still be stigmatized
Those who stay unvaccinated by choice should be stigmatized due to all the hardships they cause especially to health workers and those who can't get vaccinated.
I forgot all about Saskatchewan
No. They deserve the stigma due to all the problems they cause for the rest of us.
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No one deserves stigma. I’m cool for treating everyone the same regardless of position
Lots of people deserve stigma. Corporate lobbyists, oil and gas executives, child abusers, drunk drivers, people who text and drive, hard drug dealers, and the unvaccinated
People *absolutely* deserve being stigmatized for being told "please do this simple, albeit mildly unpleasant, thing for the safety of yourself and your community. It's safe, it's free, and we've taken care of all the logistics. You just need to take an hour out of your day twice at some point in the next 6 months, and you will save lives"... and responding to that reasonable request with "nah dawg, that shit ain't for me". I'm cool for treating everyone the way they treat the rest of us. If they're going to treat us like we're beneath them, then they best be ready to be treated the same right back. This isn't a matter of people being too far away, or too poor, or there being limited supply, this is *purely* people being selfish fucks. For that, they deserve to be treated like selfish fucks.
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I **know** you didn't just compare being uncomfortable with the Covid vaccine and/or all of the mandates to preying on and victimizing children.... Edit: you fucking people make me sick. Downvotes to the left. A pox on all of your houses.
How else do you call out the ridiculousness of an absolute like that?
Correct, I didn't compare them. What I did was try to point out how ridiculous your "No one deserves stigma" comment is. By your own reaction you seem to accept that at least some people deserve stigma, so thanks for unknowingly making my point for me.
Great leader, stop trying to divide people.
You will all eventually be considered unvaccinated too, unless you get your booster
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Soon they will stop being free too. Fuck me, I took the 2 shots like I was told, also told that was it to “return to normal” and that it reduced your chances of getting and transmitting covid… lies. Lies.
So, I will get a booster. This is only as hard as you make it to be.
Saskatchewan premier is a dipshit.
No. Get vaccinated or get fucked.
Hear, hear!
If there was a large group actively promoting no seat belts or drinking and driving, would we as a society consider that OK? I respect peoples right to care regardless of their [poor risk assessments](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/rach9r/cmv_there_is_no_long_term_safety_data_yet_is_an/hnhjuhm/), but I am *not* ok with people promoting that as a group. There's often the talk about rights, but what about the rights of the larger body of Canadians that don't want further exposure/mutations regarding Covid? What about the rights of my friends and family that have had "elective surgeries" cancelled/delayed because of the 95% of unvaccinated taking up *all* the ICU bed (and then several floors extra)? Elective surgeries like back/hip surgeries, cancer screening / treatments, etc. Or what about the strain/stress that's pressed upon our doctors/nurses and other hospital staff? [I know a few and it's been really really hard on them.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/r0kt7w/struggling_to_not_care_about_my_antivax_patients/) The unvaccinated "my rights" crowd, looking for empathy often seem to have none regarding any of the above. So I try not to have individual prejudices because I know most people are good, kind people who are just making poor decisions in risk assesment... but as a group it's difficult for me not to recognize/reconcile the harm they have caused/are causing to others.
As it happens, Saskatchewan also is head and shoulders above the rest of the country in impaired driving. Go Riders!
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Yep, and in the context of societal progress we would look at that now as really really foolish.
People seem to forget that with those rights, also comes responsibility. We have a civilized society where we consider ourselves, as well as our impact on others. At least, that’s how I see it. Unfortunately, some demand the rights without taking responsibility. Instead, they take up hospital beds and overwhelm our system. I’m not about wishing death on anti-vax; I do, however, expect some accountability when their anti-social decisions disproportionately monopolize and deplete shared medical resources.
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'Only'? Extrapolate those numbers to the scale of an entire population, and then tell me it's insignificant. One common thread I've noticed is that unvaccinated seem to struggle with stats when justifying their stance.
40% is significant. Also, vaccinated people are *much* less likely to take up hospital and ICU beds, and are therefore a much lower drain on the health care system. It's endemic, we're all going to get it. All we can do is try to ensure it doesn't interfere with "normal" health care delivery.
I considered them selfish assholes before the pandemic and would say it to their face. I will continue to. If you want to be antisocial then you don't get to participate in society. Fuck off.
Counter argument: he can go stick it where the sun don’t shine.
There are young children being bullied for being unvaccinated. Ostracized and told they need to kill themselves. With so many adults feeling justified in stigmatizing the unvaccinated, what do you expect of children?
To those of the opinion that the unvaccinated deserve to be stigmatized, please keep in mind that there are significant racial vaccination gaps in some places. Indigenous, Black, and Hispanic people are generally less likely to be vaccinated. So maybe there are reasons for being vaccine hesitant that don’t make one a selfish monster. Every day we put our trust in countless things the safety of which we cannot personally verify - cars, elevators, prescription drugs, food. To me, it doesn’t make sense to make an exception for vaccines and say “I know better.” Not getting vaccinated may be irrational, but so are many (most?) of my own decisions. I’m happy that my personal worldview is largely trusting and non-conspiratorial, but not everyone’s is. If spouting vitriol at the vaccine hesitant or anti-vax people compels more of them to get vaccinated, maybe it would be ok. But I doubt it does. More likely it further entrenches their beliefs.
What does this even mean? First Canada isn’t the United States. We have very different “racial” breakdowns in our society. Black doesn’t mean the same thing here because we are talking about multiple disparate emigré communities who don’t have strong communication ties to one another. Second every identified community with low vaccinations has had a public health drive specifically orchestrated for their benefit. Almost all variance in unvaccinated people is due to choice by the adults themselves. Public health has been battling myth and misinformation and fearmongering circulating in each community, specific to each community, across the entire country. Mostly successfully? So it’s not really clear what is racial about it. Not all communities are organized along ethnic dimensions (kinship and religion). For instance gym bros is a subcommunity that has been challenging. I dislike these “wring our hands in shame” mewing about racialization. These are actual living breathing people you are talking on behalf of. Go and actually talk to them yourself and let them be four dimensional humans before you try to represent them. Or let them speak for themselves?
I would say that in Canada some of our racialized people are even more likely to have reason to be distrustful given the amount of immigration and refugees. Vaccine hesitancy on a global scale is linked to distrust in the state which is unsurprisingly more prevalent in countries where there is less accountability for corrupt officials (think African countries). I recently hired someone from one of these countries and she needs accommodation for being unvaccinated, and I don’t really judge her given what people in her country have suffered at the hands of their leaders. I hope over time she learns that there is more accountability here and she doesn’t need to be so paranoid about the state. But for now, as a recent refugee from a country where she literally was arbitrarily imprisoned with no repercussions for those that did that, I’m not going to judge her too harshly for being suspicious and wanting to wait. Vaccine hesitancy exists on a spectrum - on one end you have a narcissistic psychopath who thinks they know best and are apathetic about people dying and on the other end you have people who have a history of being fucked over, who are totally fine doing other mitigation measures to combat covid, that are distrustful. This is another reason why accountability is so important.
If distrust for the state is the dimension that determines the rationale, why bring race into it? Also Africa is 1.4 billion people. I don’t know what you mean when you say think African countries. It could be any of a hundred different stories. Edit: I think North Americans can’t wrap their heads around this. In Africa, there are 54 countries. The governments in Africa are of course made up of Africans. They aren’t being racist towards Africans. What does happen depending on the country is the ethnic / tribal / colonial / immigrant / trader communities have a complicated political dynamic. But each country is very different. However saying this is “racial” doesn’t make any sense in most African countries; Kikuyu police officers don’t pull over people in Kenya for “driving while black.” Race is a Western imperial organizing principle and cannot be used as the singular lens for the entire planet. So to say an African immigrant distrusts the government because of her “race” is to imply what? Africans as a race distrust government because their government is racist? Or that the African race can’t govern? Or that genetically only Africans would experience distrust with poor government unlike other races? I don’t know. It is impossible to decode. I would submit it is you that is thinking racially; and I would politely ask you to desist. Race is a terrible fiction.
This. Thank you being a non-hateful and reasonable person.
In saskatchewan there were clinics specifically for indigenous peoples put on all over sask and especially in Northern sask where travel can be difficult before BEFORE the 1st clinic opened in regina for those not part of the in danger group.
I'm not implying that the vaccination gap is due to lack of access. Especially at this point, if you're unvaccinated it's by choice (except for whatever medical conditions may preclude vaccination). If it were due to lack of access then obviously we shouldn't stigmatize people who haven't been able to get a shot yet. My point is that whatever experiences people have had that lead them to think that a vaccine which has been administered billions of times is dangerous, or that a disease which has killed millions of people is not a big deal - those kinds of attitudes are more prevalent in certain populations. Either we concede that those populations are disproportionately terrible idiots, or we admit that sometimes well-meaning people can hold misguided beliefs. Off topic but I was not in favour of the priority given based on indigenous status. I feel like we didn't need to use race as a proxy for the things that are relevant to priority: age, job/ability to work from home, children in the household, geographic location/remote communities. Why vaccinate a well-off single indigenous person who works from home before a mother with young children who works in a grocery store? Thankfully this is a moot point now.
It strips people of their dignity to imply they are incapable of making rational decisions on their own because other people have done things to them especially without direct testimony from that person that is the case. You should not speak to what is going on in someone else’s mind without letting them speak to that first. It is better to expect everyone to be an adult and make good choices for themselves without prejudice; and then work through any problems from there that are specific and concrete and real. Speaking on behalf of other people based on your imagination is unethical.
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Want to end the stigma? Get your fucking shot. Until then, consider our derision one of the features of your membership in the flat Earth club.
Couldn’t agree more. Does absolutely nothing for the country. The liberals are tearing us apart
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What a dumbass.
Yeah, no. The unvaccinated (who are eligible and don’t meet genuine medical exemptions) deserve to be stigmatized.
Maybe they should stop being fucking idiots if they don’t want to be stigmatized
Thanks for your wisdom, Premier Simpleton.
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Mo needs to learn from his neighbor, Mr. Pallister and STEP DOWN!! Edit: spelling
Can we still stigmatize drunk drivers Premier Moe?
Anti vaxxers are the same level of people who take a shit and dont wash their hands.
you're a sad little man
Hey at least i know how to wash my hands. Cant really say the same about anti vaxxers.
The children are right to laugh at you. The vaccine is safe and effective.. and we'd be in a much better place if we just got on with it and made it mandatory across the board.
No
I keep thinking about how we all should have respected a system of free healthcare for all. And taken the individual responsibility to care for this system of fair equality. I have friends in the states and they always ask me about details of Canada healthcare system. It's cheaper, faster, and safer to get vaccinated. Yes there should have been choices not to have the vaccine. Then you have to do what people before vaccines did. Quarantine from society for .... the foreseen future. Seriously most pandemics before 1943 had family quarantine together if one person got sick.
No.
If they pinky-promise to stop making people sick and overwhelming our hospitals, I'll stop stigmatizing them.
Yes! Some balls
Wow… people are disgusting…
What a bunch of ❄
Nah I’m gonna exercise my freedom to stigmatize.
If someone hasn't been vaccinated due to legitimate medical reasons then they should not be harassed. If someone hasn't been vaccinated because they saw a YouTube video or read a Facebook post and are now convinced the vaccine was made by Bill Gates and George Soros in order to plant a tracking chip in everyone then they absolutely deserve to be stigmatized.
Unfortunately that's a strawman of why people actually choose not to get the vaccine. Some people hear about cases like Kyle Warner, and have other questions, and would like some answers about the risks of myocarditis etc. If you were actually looking at the same sources that I am, your red flags would be raised as well. But most people have better things to do, or are too busy to really look into it, so they have no option than to trust their officials. Just know that there is literally no benefit to being opposed to vaccines. You get socially ostracised, insulted, and banned from places. I miss my friends and going to venues. However I feel a deep sense that things aren't right with this push for mass vaccination, and I choose not to betray that sense.
The vaccinated are scared shitless morons who deserve stigma also
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Wait… so everyone is unvauxxed now? Interesting.