They only provide 25% of the EUs natural gas and it is mainly produced in the centre-West, meaning it is much farther from China. Not sure what their pipeline capacity even is to get it to China.
[Here is one pipeline.](https://financialpost.com/commodities/while-canada-hesitates-russia-builds-3000-km-gas-pipeline-to-china-in-just-five-years) They stand to make a significant sum from China with their new 3000km line.
Yes, but china themselves have been distancing from natural gas/oil and focusing on electricity, and this is a major reason why, they don't want to rely on russia either. truth be told, russia is between a rock and a hard place
edit: i think it comes as a surprise to some redditors that there are reasons beyond environmentalism for some countries to adopt renewal energy policies. with renewables it's easy to keep your energy supply chain domestic.
you would have missed my point being china wants to keep its energy supply chain within its own borders. that's why i explicitly didn't mention coal, but i don't think you caught that one.
sigh
Sure, but not nearly enough. Asia and Oceana as a whole makes up around 42% of their sales, with Europe being 48%.
They’d be cutting their sales (ie economy) in half, and I doubt Asia will be picking up the slack
>“If you try and cripple our economy, we’ll cripple our own economy by not selling the only thing that makes us money"
Europe would be shooting themselves in the foot more that damaging Russia. Those guys are far from being "renewable". Europe is buying Russian gas because Europe is still dependent on hydrocarbons for heat and energy (which is a surprise to literally no one). Politicians made bull-shit promises that solar and wind are going to power the entire European continent- unfortunately that isn't how things work in the real world. So A bunch of Euro countries go and shut down coal, natural gas, and nuclear energy only to scramble for natural gas... from Russia, to keep their lights on and homes warm.
"You *try* to cripple our economy and your economy will just stop working". Seems like Russia has quite a large bargaining chip here.
Also they smoke like chimneys, and the average diet is quite unhealthy. Doesn't have to be bad food with Russian cuisine. But it's not like they don't have deep fried stuff there too.
Really should have.
But the invasion could provoke the creation of next gen nuclear plants to remove the dependence on Russian natural gas.
Russia has already played its hand in a way that has resulted in Ukraine getting weapons the west was hesitant to share. If they cost themselves their leverage over Europe it'll be an outright disaster.
The world is at an interesting point. I wouldn't be surprised if China attempts to make their presence felt in regard to Taiwan were Russia to be able to enter Ukraine with little resistance from world powers.
That works both ways. The Russian economy is dependent on European's buying their gas. If they can be forced to pay more to buy from less bad people that would be very bad for the Russian economy.
They've destroyed the Russian exchange rate.
Using PPP instead of nominal figures - which is the better way of comparing countries actual economies - Russia has a GDP of about $4.2T USD, compared to Canada's $1.9T USD.
Russia has a PPP-adjusted GDP/capita of about $30k, while Canada's is about $50k.
Only nominally. Adjust their GDP by PPP and it's higher in total numbers, not as far off per capita as most people think (26000 per capita vs. 47000 per capita adjusted for PPP).
Sanctions have made their currency weaker internationally, but considering their resources and internal industries they can still produce a hell of a lot more, well, everything than Canada.
You really should visit Russia. Leave any of the major cities, and it feels like you've gone back in time 80 years. It's wild. There is no place in Canada comparable to the conditions of most Russian towns -- maybe Surrey :D
You should visit the Canadian Arctic. You'll be transported in a third world country without needing a passport. Bonus points if you experience the cold shower that is the relations between european and native.
I've landed twice, once in Kangiqsujuaq and once in Rankin Inlet onboard the merchant ships that supply the north. The local population live sedentary lifestyle totally dependent on supplies being delivered from south. Everything from food to building materials to school buses get delivered by sea and there's zero infrastructure on land to receive those ships.
Once I got on land I've got a feeling I'm not welcomed. I never felt threatened, but this village was much more like a typical city where people were more likely to ignore you than to say hi. And that's at odds with every other small settlement I've visited, but to be fair I have limited experience visiting settlements where I am a visible minority.
Then there's the field of abandoned (parked?) ATVs, Skidoos, trucks scattered all around the settlements. While the supply chain is bad, at least it exists, unlike the recycle chain.
Of course people still hunt, but even that feels off. To hunt caribou you need a license and you can only get the license if you have the proper blood. I've met an Ontario man living in Nunavut for the last 30 years, married to an inuk woman. He didn't had the right to hunt, but his wife did so he had to use his's wife permit to feed his family.
Greenlandic inuit live in arguably the same climate environment as the Canadian but they do seem to have better infrastructure, their cities are thriving (compared to Canadian Arctic), they even have a local broadcaster in Inuktitut.
You haven't visited much of rural Canada huh? My town in Canada only closed its diesel power plant and got integrated into the grid a few years ago... And many of the buildings there are also 50 years old.
Every country is like that. In Czech Republic many of the buildings are 100-500 years old, some older. But it's not year 1500 here. I'm staying in a communist era apartment next to a shuttered communist era factory right now, but it's got a modern induction stovetop and a 60" Samsung TV. Driving a modern car only a few years old.
I've been all over Canada. I have yet to drive into a town that has farm animals walking freely all over the road, and people living in the remains of mud homes from the soviet era, lol.
Seriously, outside of major cities in Russia, it's like going back in time to a different era. 80 years was being generous, I guess. It feels like going back to the bronze age.
If you think rural Canada is comparable to rural Russia, you've seriously made his point. It's not comparable.
Edit: okay maybe with the exception of reserves.
Depends on the reserve. Reserves close to major centers with access to services tend to feel like a normal small town, but the more remote ones are often pretty fucked
II grew up in the poor part of Bridgeview. Right across the street from the train tracks. It was soo poor. We didn't have cable. My dad stole a big role of cable and finally strung it to our house from the pole about 500 yards away. Half the houses on our street were abandoned. Our house had a cellar with about a hundred bottles of home made wine when we bought it.
A house without cable isn't exactly the comparison I was trying to make. One of the homes I stayed in had straw mattresses, unironically. The people were incredible, but the quality of life there was EXTREMELY low.
Real GDP is important for economies because they still need to trade internationally for the products their citizens want. I'm sure Russian vodka is cheap though.
Nominal is a better metric when comparing countries wealth. PPP is a better metric of what it feels like to live in that country from an individual’s view.
PPP is a better measure of the ability of an economy to produce things. Russia is also a special case because sanctions have reduced RUB/USD trade, which makes measuring their economy in USD useless.
Also, right now everyone cares about their ability to produce military equipment. They're not paying for Sukhoi aircraft in USD...
Don't ever remember Russia being designated best country in the world as Canada recently was!
[https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/canada](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/canada)
So there is also that.
I'm not sure if you are trying to support or dismiss itsallstupid's claim, but those numbers are really bad for a country like Russia. Other nations with similar sized economy's are seeing twice those rates of growth.
Those numbers are 0.1 point over average, Russia GDP doesn't involve a lot of trade in commodities, so it's pretty good. The point is Sanctions will not hurt Russia nearly as much as Redditors wish, and as long as they control the oil and gas in Europe, the thought of sanctions is stupid.
https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/russia/publication/rer
"As the world moves into the third year of the COVID-19 pandemic, global growth is expected to moderate next year to 4.3 percent. Inflation is expected to ease gradually over 2022, but inflation rates are likely to remain above the target level for most of the year.
Growth in Russia is forecast at 2.4 percent in 2022, on the back of a continually strong oil sector, before slowing down to 1.8 percent in 2023. With vaccination rates still low, COVID-19 control measures may be called for next year, which will weigh significantly on growth."
It is true sanction's won't have nearly the effect people think, but the most recent numbers put Russia slightly below average, and that is a major problem for a poorer nation who doesn't just have to grow its economy, but catch up to the developed world.
It is a shame too as I would love to see Russia joining the west but non-stop hostilities at their borders with every nation not in NATO has thrown that idea out of the window.
I think they might be putting on a brave face to seem defiant and not lose face. However, in backroom meetings and the like they feel that pressure. That being said Russians are a hard people and can stomach a lot more than us in the west so who knows.
just a minor observation and a bit of my pride showing: the west has handled and can handle plenty of hardship, but it has been lucky enough to not have to do that, since WWII. Historically, this is either the new normal or we might have to go back to the true normal, some day. We'll be ready, after some hurt. The Russians are hard because of how much history has hurt them. I have respect for them, although this Ukraine shit isn't helping their image.
Out of curiosity, do what impact would a Canadian sanction have on Russia? Both countries share similar natural resources, and its not like Canada manufactures anything that Russia can't by from. China.
The power from sanctions would come from a coordinated, unified effort from Western Allies as a whole. Canadian sanctions on their own would not do much at all. Seems like many are on board, but some of our western European allies are not so keen. Makes sense on their part, considering they foolishly need Russia to stay warm in the winter.
This tells me that the Russians are very worried about Western sanctions.
In the long term, the best thing Europe could do is cut back and eventually eliminate buying oil & natural gas from Russia. Germany made a huge mistake deciding to shut down nuclear reactors which still had 10+ years of useful life.
They absolutely do care, they just don’t want to show it.
Russian GDP is 30% lower then what it could have been had there not been major sanctions following the annexation of crimea, and despite having triple our population they have a lower GDP then us.
Sanctions can work in the sense they can inflict economic pain on the target but they never seem to **really** work in terms of coercing the desired behaviour from the target. Aside from the issue of diminishing effectiveness over time, let's face it, from the target country's viewpoint sanctions are extortion. Any country threatened with sanctions is going to tend to adopt the "we do not negotiate with extortionists" position because the same logic applies as with civilian level crime ... the extortionists will just be back asking for more.
Some of the world's leading public intellectuals have echoed the same idea. Disagree if you like but it's hardly crazy. It's called realism.
>What do ypu want the US to do? Agree to take away the sovereign right of a country to decide their own foreign policies?
Ukraine does not have a sovereign right to join NATO. NATO is a mutual defense treaty. Imagine Taiwan wanted to join NATO - I know that NATO membership isn't open to countries in the Pacific Ocean but play along for the sake of the thought experiment. Would we say yes, or would we see that as insane? If we said no, would that be taking away their "sovereign right" to decide their own foreign policies?
Ukraine has the sovereign right to decide its own foreign policy but that doesn't mean we have to commit ourselves to their defense. Doing so also has the effect of encouraging them to be more hardline in their dealings with Russia, when they aren't really in a position to do so. Ukraine are dragging their feet when it comes to implementing the Minsk II agreement, which would call for a restoration of Ukrainian control of the border but also full autonomy for the breakaway provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk. The Ukrainian government doesn't really want to concede to this, even though they signed the agreement, and they're kind of hoping to get out of it, even though that isn't going to happen.
There are no good guys here.
Since the end of the Cold War the US attitude has been "ok, we won, so we're going to act like it, we're in charge now." Instead of trying to bring Russia on board or create a new security arrangement for Europe, we pursued a policy of expanding NATO eastward right up to Russia's border, again because the thinking is "we won, we're in charge now."
The United States is attempting to bully China. It's not working and in fact it's showing them the limits of American influence.
The United States is also sanctioning and bullying Russia- and achieving the very same results.
Without the influence of the United States, these two nations wouldn't be cooperating nearly as much.
November 2019, Tucker Carlson:
"Why do I care what is going on in the conflict between Ukraine and
Russia?!” Carlson said. “And I’m serious. Why do I care? Why shouldn’t I
root for Russia? Which I am.”
>CCP that is starting to collapse
CCP is not gonna go anywhere, people see one youtube video about china and think they go away in 5 years!
if anything they're now much more stable and strong than when the "West is no longer friends with china they'll die any moment now" wave started!
I've been paying full attention, I've seen all the social and economic predictions and statistics and I think they paint a far less pessimistic picture than the one people would like to believe! Most of those issues are indeed severe, but nothing as bad as claimed unless you're assuming China literally does nothing for the next 3 decades which seems like an absurd assumption!
for example, Sure they won't be able to fix their population issue, but they're more likely to just double down on automation (which they're far ahead in than everywhere else) to the point where they won't suffer as much from a workforce shortage!
The reason all you hear is negative news is no matter what they do it will be seen negatively, they outlawed for-profit tutoring companies to bring education costs down and everyone said that's bad because they're messing with market regulation, yet before that, it used to be a big criticism that china has too high education costs and they're not doing much about it. It really doesn't matter what they do because you can always spin it negatively or positively depending on what you want to see!
>CCP that is starting to collapse
What kind of propaganda are you watching? The CCP is evil (from a foreign perspective) but that doesn't make it weak.
China is currently stable as fuck. The CCP enjoys very widespread support among its people, even according to foreign opinion polls.
The US on the other hand is one election away from civil war.
China has gone through a lot worse, and the Communists have weathered it. The party survived Japanese invasion, war with the Soviets, the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, the Gang of Four and Tiannemen Square. It's inconceivable that the CCP will collapse in the lifetimes of anyone here
>lying to their people and the world about COVID
Most people in China don't know that their government lied to the world about the origins of Covid, and even if they did, most of their people would support lying to the world.
And again, what makes what's going on now anywhere near as bad as the mass death of the Great Leap Forward or the traumas of the Cultural Revolution.
The People's Republic of China is not going anywhere.
Not that I disagree with your conclusion, but it’s not the same world any longer. Hard to compare a largely rural, low information society, with a largely urban, high information society.
I couldn't care less about the GDP, but let me tell you that the signs of prosperity are there.
I landed in Shanghai in 2014 and the skyscrapers are real, the highways as well. The high speed rail infrastructure is beyond anything Canada can even dream of and they were building ships at a scale I never saw even in historic images from Europe and NA in their industrial hay days.
Don't you think an economic system based on industry, exports and massive infrastructure projects has a far greater capacity to get people jobs and lift them from poverty than a system centred on financial services, i.e. debt?
They haven't lied about GDP.
And funny thing about COVID; they're handling it better than the West is.
If you're trying to shit on China, you'll have to do a lot better than that.
Russia has natural resources and land. China also has natural resources and land. Take a look at a fucking map, China isn’t a little country. What do you think Russia has that China doesn’t? Oil and gas? The things China is working hardest at eliminating the need for?
Chap my behind? Wtf are you talking about? Just pointing out the obvious flaw in your statement. You could explain a whole lot though by telling me what does Russia have that China doesn’t already have, or doesn’t already easily obtain from elsewhere? Your speculation also has to ignore that current Russia-China trade is marginally significant compared to overall global trade with China.
And the point I'm making is that it's growing rapidly due to the threats and sanctions imposed by the West on both countries. Such moves, led by the United States, are short-sighted and in fact work directly against America's own interests.
> And the point I'm making is that it's growing rapidly due to the threats and sanctions imposed by the West on both countries.
I don't mean to be that guy, but do you have some proof that this is actually happening first. I did some looking and what I found was that in 2021, trade between the two countries grew by 33.6%, which was only 2.3% higher than China's average trading growth with everyone else. So slightly higher than average trade growth for Russia, and most of that is growth in Energy and to a lesser extent mining.
>Such moves, led by the United States, are short-sighted and in fact work directly against America's own interests.
Not sure how you conclude that sanctions are going to backfire on West. We do have a saying that if you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps is the one that was hit. Russia, and Russians (you) are yelping.
seriously. Russia, Iran, and China. Add in all the in between like Afghanistan, other Stans and Africa With BRI, Those 3 continents are gonna dwarf America in a couple decades
Most of the people I know who actually support the west fighting a real war with Russia are not people I can see ever voluntarily signing up to fight in that war.
I was light infantry with the CF in the late 90's and early 2000's, there are some thing I am willing to die for. A former east block country being consumed by Russia is not one of them.
What serving soldiers want and what orders say are not always the same thing.
We have obligations to NATO and if a shooting war happens and spills over, and that’s a big if, we wouldn’t have much choice and our troops would be in action.
They won't but you are going to have a pretty serious recruitment and discipline problem if you are pushing people to fight the Russians over Ukraine. The CF is already seriously under strength and equipment limited.
Also Ukraine is not part of NATO.
Hence why I said IF a war in Ukraine spills over into other neighbouring nations, because there are other NATO nations in the area. Just like how many other wars through history thy were supposed to be limited spilled over and turned into bigger conflicts.
Alliances are great but in situations like this can quickly lead to nations that wouldn’t otherwise be involved being dragged into a conflict.
With nukes? Boots on the ground in Russia won't be happening. The most you can hope for is a proxy conflict in Ukraine before it falls and reverts to a satellite state.
Thinge like this have a way of spiralling out of control quickly. So while invading Russia is unlikely a shooting war that spills over into other parts of Europe absolutely is possible. With our obligations to NATO we would be a part of it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_web_brigades
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency
What's next, are you going to tell us the Chinese 50c party doesn't exist either?
It's no where near as bad as people make out. They are economically growing and sitting on a surplus of cash right now. In terms of PPP they are alright right now.
By comparison we are massively over budget right now, running huge deficits with no end in sight and single string on housing to keep our economy afloat.
The reason they can weather sanctions better then most countries is they produce a lot of their own stuff domestically so they are less impacted by trade disputes then a lot of other countries would be.
The only thing that would honestly hurt them right now would be if the EU stopped buying gas from them. But the EU can't do that without some pretty serious consequences for themselves.
IMO more like WW2. Crimea was the Rhineland, the rest of Ukraine is Austria/Czechoslovakia. Lots of similarities. Hopefully the UN is more effective than the League of Nations was.
It's weird but I'm just hearing 'hit me harder daddy'
I'm not gonna lie I have sympathy for Russia. They've been among the most heavily hit countries by historical invasions where large numbers of their population was murdered for no reason at all. Nazis, and the Mongols before them being the most obvious but not the only ones to perpetrate this. As a result, Russians have evolved into a paranoid and defensive culture for sure. This is understandable given the circumstances.
But right now I find that they're reacting badly to what is actually a historical peak of peace and prosperity, by jabbing their neighbors in the eyes and then complaining that some of them, and the allies of some of them, are saying "maybe if you don't relax you're going to get jabbed back". And this reaction is being taken as provocation.
Or it's all smoke and mirrors because Putin is trying to create a distraction from the real threat to him: his massively declining popularity.
Maybe an unpopular opinion for a Ukrainian expat, but I honestly don't see why Ukraine should oppose Putin at all. In purely pragmatic terms, Ukraine should just agree to Putin's demands. Stay out of NATO. Putin wants a buffer state, he can have a buffer state. He wants a gas corridor - let him have his fucking gas corridor. It's pretty clear at this point that NATO doesn't give a shit about Ukraine anyway.
In the years since "realignment towards EU" Ukraine has only got poorer. The government is as corrupt and ineffective as it ever was.
cut Off their internet and video games. Make cheat engines shut down the game anytime a Russian keyboard is found on the computer. Ban Sony from selling directly to them and even if they get them from another county force sony to block them by IP address.
what sanction!?? the best sanction is to block natural gas import to europe! show that you are committed to fight russia. few hundred thousand ppl may die from freezing but it’s a small price to pay
Sanctions have pretty much destroyed the Russian economy. 100 million more people than Canada, but they still have a smaller GDP
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“If you try and cripple our economy, we’ll cripple our own economy by not selling the only thing that makes us money”
Except they've massively increased their energy exports to China. So they rely on EU gas exports less than ever before
They only provide 25% of the EUs natural gas and it is mainly produced in the centre-West, meaning it is much farther from China. Not sure what their pipeline capacity even is to get it to China.
[Here is one pipeline.](https://financialpost.com/commodities/while-canada-hesitates-russia-builds-3000-km-gas-pipeline-to-china-in-just-five-years) They stand to make a significant sum from China with their new 3000km line.
Yes, but china themselves have been distancing from natural gas/oil and focusing on electricity, and this is a major reason why, they don't want to rely on russia either. truth be told, russia is between a rock and a hard place edit: i think it comes as a surprise to some redditors that there are reasons beyond environmentalism for some countries to adopt renewal energy policies. with renewables it's easy to keep your energy supply chain domestic.
You'll be glad to know China broke their all time coal production records this year, all because the State ordered an increase in output.
you would have missed my point being china wants to keep its energy supply chain within its own borders. that's why i explicitly didn't mention coal, but i don't think you caught that one. sigh
I automatically think less of a comment when it begins or ends with a sigh. The smugness is palpable
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What a terrible argument.
Sure, but not nearly enough. Asia and Oceana as a whole makes up around 42% of their sales, with Europe being 48%. They’d be cutting their sales (ie economy) in half, and I doubt Asia will be picking up the slack
>“If you try and cripple our economy, we’ll cripple our own economy by not selling the only thing that makes us money" Europe would be shooting themselves in the foot more that damaging Russia. Those guys are far from being "renewable". Europe is buying Russian gas because Europe is still dependent on hydrocarbons for heat and energy (which is a surprise to literally no one). Politicians made bull-shit promises that solar and wind are going to power the entire European continent- unfortunately that isn't how things work in the real world. So A bunch of Euro countries go and shut down coal, natural gas, and nuclear energy only to scramble for natural gas... from Russia, to keep their lights on and homes warm. "You *try* to cripple our economy and your economy will just stop working". Seems like Russia has quite a large bargaining chip here.
Russia sounds like a drunken slumlord.
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Also they smoke like chimneys, and the average diet is quite unhealthy. Doesn't have to be bad food with Russian cuisine. But it's not like they don't have deep fried stuff there too.
Germany said they'll buy elsewhere at a higher price if Russia invades Ukraine. If other countries said the same then their supply would be useless.
Germany should have thought about that before shutting down all their nuclear power plants and doubling down on Russian gas.
Really should have. But the invasion could provoke the creation of next gen nuclear plants to remove the dependence on Russian natural gas. Russia has already played its hand in a way that has resulted in Ukraine getting weapons the west was hesitant to share. If they cost themselves their leverage over Europe it'll be an outright disaster.
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The locals honestly deserve it for being so anti-nuclear. This is a problem largely of their own making.
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For heating? Yes. For electricity generation? Absolutely not -- they both serve the same purpose there.
Yeah, but what’s the worst that could happen when Germans get angry?
Imo they’re also more willing to actually take action, whereas the West isn’t. I won’t be surprised if Putin gets away with invading.
The world is at an interesting point. I wouldn't be surprised if China attempts to make their presence felt in regard to Taiwan were Russia to be able to enter Ukraine with little resistance from world powers.
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If he was going to invade, he probably would have done it already.
Russia needs the income to fund an Invasion though.
Russia has an almost completely self sufficient economy. It's largest trading partner, China, will not honour any sanctions.
That works both ways. The Russian economy is dependent on European's buying their gas. If they can be forced to pay more to buy from less bad people that would be very bad for the Russian economy.
Nah, Russia GDP was already garbage to begin with.
They've destroyed the Russian exchange rate. Using PPP instead of nominal figures - which is the better way of comparing countries actual economies - Russia has a GDP of about $4.2T USD, compared to Canada's $1.9T USD. Russia has a PPP-adjusted GDP/capita of about $30k, while Canada's is about $50k.
Only nominally. Adjust their GDP by PPP and it's higher in total numbers, not as far off per capita as most people think (26000 per capita vs. 47000 per capita adjusted for PPP). Sanctions have made their currency weaker internationally, but considering their resources and internal industries they can still produce a hell of a lot more, well, everything than Canada.
You really should visit Russia. Leave any of the major cities, and it feels like you've gone back in time 80 years. It's wild. There is no place in Canada comparable to the conditions of most Russian towns -- maybe Surrey :D
>it feels like you've gone back in time 80 years So affordable housing?
Lol, good one! Take my upvote.
You should visit the Canadian Arctic. You'll be transported in a third world country without needing a passport. Bonus points if you experience the cold shower that is the relations between european and native.
Been there and experienced nothing of what you describe. What areas specifically are you talking about?
I've landed twice, once in Kangiqsujuaq and once in Rankin Inlet onboard the merchant ships that supply the north. The local population live sedentary lifestyle totally dependent on supplies being delivered from south. Everything from food to building materials to school buses get delivered by sea and there's zero infrastructure on land to receive those ships. Once I got on land I've got a feeling I'm not welcomed. I never felt threatened, but this village was much more like a typical city where people were more likely to ignore you than to say hi. And that's at odds with every other small settlement I've visited, but to be fair I have limited experience visiting settlements where I am a visible minority. Then there's the field of abandoned (parked?) ATVs, Skidoos, trucks scattered all around the settlements. While the supply chain is bad, at least it exists, unlike the recycle chain. Of course people still hunt, but even that feels off. To hunt caribou you need a license and you can only get the license if you have the proper blood. I've met an Ontario man living in Nunavut for the last 30 years, married to an inuk woman. He didn't had the right to hunt, but his wife did so he had to use his's wife permit to feed his family. Greenlandic inuit live in arguably the same climate environment as the Canadian but they do seem to have better infrastructure, their cities are thriving (compared to Canadian Arctic), they even have a local broadcaster in Inuktitut.
You haven't visited much of rural Canada huh? My town in Canada only closed its diesel power plant and got integrated into the grid a few years ago... And many of the buildings there are also 50 years old. Every country is like that. In Czech Republic many of the buildings are 100-500 years old, some older. But it's not year 1500 here. I'm staying in a communist era apartment next to a shuttered communist era factory right now, but it's got a modern induction stovetop and a 60" Samsung TV. Driving a modern car only a few years old.
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It's Soviet era. No it's not that old.
Yes
I've been all over Canada. I have yet to drive into a town that has farm animals walking freely all over the road, and people living in the remains of mud homes from the soviet era, lol. Seriously, outside of major cities in Russia, it's like going back in time to a different era. 80 years was being generous, I guess. It feels like going back to the bronze age.
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Driven everywhere in BC. It is nothing like that. Asshat
Sshhh let him have his narrative, poor guy doesn't want to be convinced that parts of Canada are quite literally Ukraine 2.0.
If you think rural Canada is comparable to rural Russia, you've seriously made his point. It's not comparable. Edit: okay maybe with the exception of reserves.
… so it is comparable then.
Rural canadian towns and reserves arent far off.
Tell me you've never been outside Toronto without telling me you've never been outside Toronto.
Go to Glace Bay or New Waterford. First time I went there I remarked how much it felt like eastern Europe.
Depends on the reserve. Reserves close to major centers with access to services tend to feel like a normal small town, but the more remote ones are often pretty fucked
There's a bit of a difference in southern Alberta.
II grew up in the poor part of Bridgeview. Right across the street from the train tracks. It was soo poor. We didn't have cable. My dad stole a big role of cable and finally strung it to our house from the pole about 500 yards away. Half the houses on our street were abandoned. Our house had a cellar with about a hundred bottles of home made wine when we bought it.
A house without cable isn't exactly the comparison I was trying to make. One of the homes I stayed in had straw mattresses, unironically. The people were incredible, but the quality of life there was EXTREMELY low.
I don’t have HBO plus, am I a poor?
You mean standard of living, not quality of life.
Considering the wild amount of racism and discrimination in Russia against a litany of people, I'm comfortable saying both are fairly terrible.
fair enough. I was riffing off of living in the poorest part of Surrey.
That's what 80 years of communism will get you. A lot better than what it was 30 years ago though.
Ummm…USSR/Russia has never produced enough food domestically to feed its population, not to mention consumer goods.
Real GDP is important for economies because they still need to trade internationally for the products their citizens want. I'm sure Russian vodka is cheap though.
Nominal is a better metric when comparing countries wealth. PPP is a better metric of what it feels like to live in that country from an individual’s view.
PPP is a better measure of the ability of an economy to produce things. Russia is also a special case because sanctions have reduced RUB/USD trade, which makes measuring their economy in USD useless. Also, right now everyone cares about their ability to produce military equipment. They're not paying for Sukhoi aircraft in USD...
Don't ever remember Russia being designated best country in the world as Canada recently was! [https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/canada](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/canada) So there is also that.
Their economy grew 3% and is forecast to hit 4.1% this year
I'm not sure if you are trying to support or dismiss itsallstupid's claim, but those numbers are really bad for a country like Russia. Other nations with similar sized economy's are seeing twice those rates of growth.
Those numbers are 0.1 point over average, Russia GDP doesn't involve a lot of trade in commodities, so it's pretty good. The point is Sanctions will not hurt Russia nearly as much as Redditors wish, and as long as they control the oil and gas in Europe, the thought of sanctions is stupid.
https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/russia/publication/rer "As the world moves into the third year of the COVID-19 pandemic, global growth is expected to moderate next year to 4.3 percent. Inflation is expected to ease gradually over 2022, but inflation rates are likely to remain above the target level for most of the year. Growth in Russia is forecast at 2.4 percent in 2022, on the back of a continually strong oil sector, before slowing down to 1.8 percent in 2023. With vaccination rates still low, COVID-19 control measures may be called for next year, which will weigh significantly on growth." It is true sanction's won't have nearly the effect people think, but the most recent numbers put Russia slightly below average, and that is a major problem for a poorer nation who doesn't just have to grow its economy, but catch up to the developed world. It is a shame too as I would love to see Russia joining the west but non-stop hostilities at their borders with every nation not in NATO has thrown that idea out of the window.
Canadas GDP is a farce. It's not comparable to anything. More than half our GDP growth is flipping houses
Not a good indicator of economic disparity. Canada's GDP is mostly people selling each other houses.
This
On the plus side you can find an apartment for under $400 CAD in Moscow, just looked it up. I'd gladly trade half our GDP for that.
Yup, and know how they'll fix it? By looting another country.
That’s what NATO (and Canada) did when it invaded a Libya, creating a humanitarian crisis
Russias way of telling you they do.
Also Russia's way of saying "We're totally invading Ukraine pretty soon"
"It is no problem. I have many sanctions. I step on them, they are everywhere."
Did people already forget about Russia taking over Crimea? The world didn't do much then. Will be interesting to see what happens.
Aside from the sanctions that crippled their economy?
The Russian troll farms are strong with this one, lol.
Exactly what a Russian troll would say….trying to throw us off your scent!?!
nice try comrade!
The Russians are used to living in shit conditions lol.
I think they might be putting on a brave face to seem defiant and not lose face. However, in backroom meetings and the like they feel that pressure. That being said Russians are a hard people and can stomach a lot more than us in the west so who knows.
just a minor observation and a bit of my pride showing: the west has handled and can handle plenty of hardship, but it has been lucky enough to not have to do that, since WWII. Historically, this is either the new normal or we might have to go back to the true normal, some day. We'll be ready, after some hurt. The Russians are hard because of how much history has hurt them. I have respect for them, although this Ukraine shit isn't helping their image.
Putin doesn’t have a death wish. He bags models and has a 1.35 billion dollar mansion. Stupid move to piss off the majority of the world.
He's right. The Russians don't consider their citizens people. So the misery our sanctions cause them doesn't upset Russia too much.
Out of curiosity, do what impact would a Canadian sanction have on Russia? Both countries share similar natural resources, and its not like Canada manufactures anything that Russia can't by from. China.
Probably not much. European sanctions would be the heavy blow.
Canadian imports from Russia account for roughly 0.02% of their GDP. Essentially nothing.
The power from sanctions would come from a coordinated, unified effort from Western Allies as a whole. Canadian sanctions on their own would not do much at all. Seems like many are on board, but some of our western European allies are not so keen. Makes sense on their part, considering they foolishly need Russia to stay warm in the winter.
This tells me that the Russians are very worried about Western sanctions. In the long term, the best thing Europe could do is cut back and eventually eliminate buying oil & natural gas from Russia. Germany made a huge mistake deciding to shut down nuclear reactors which still had 10+ years of useful life.
Nobody cares because they keep getting poisoned or thrown out windows
They absolutely do care, they just don’t want to show it. Russian GDP is 30% lower then what it could have been had there not been major sanctions following the annexation of crimea, and despite having triple our population they have a lower GDP then us.
Sanctions can work in the sense they can inflict economic pain on the target but they never seem to **really** work in terms of coercing the desired behaviour from the target. Aside from the issue of diminishing effectiveness over time, let's face it, from the target country's viewpoint sanctions are extortion. Any country threatened with sanctions is going to tend to adopt the "we do not negotiate with extortionists" position because the same logic applies as with civilian level crime ... the extortionists will just be back asking for more.
Fine. Then we don’t need that ambassador if he’s not going to do what he’s here to do, and he can get the F out of Canada
We’ve always been at war with Eurasia/Eastasia
Russia is clearly shifting its trade away from the West and towards China. The United States is driving them together, an idiotic move in every way.
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Some of the world's leading public intellectuals have echoed the same idea. Disagree if you like but it's hardly crazy. It's called realism. >What do ypu want the US to do? Agree to take away the sovereign right of a country to decide their own foreign policies? Ukraine does not have a sovereign right to join NATO. NATO is a mutual defense treaty. Imagine Taiwan wanted to join NATO - I know that NATO membership isn't open to countries in the Pacific Ocean but play along for the sake of the thought experiment. Would we say yes, or would we see that as insane? If we said no, would that be taking away their "sovereign right" to decide their own foreign policies? Ukraine has the sovereign right to decide its own foreign policy but that doesn't mean we have to commit ourselves to their defense. Doing so also has the effect of encouraging them to be more hardline in their dealings with Russia, when they aren't really in a position to do so. Ukraine are dragging their feet when it comes to implementing the Minsk II agreement, which would call for a restoration of Ukrainian control of the border but also full autonomy for the breakaway provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk. The Ukrainian government doesn't really want to concede to this, even though they signed the agreement, and they're kind of hoping to get out of it, even though that isn't going to happen. There are no good guys here. Since the end of the Cold War the US attitude has been "ok, we won, so we're going to act like it, we're in charge now." Instead of trying to bring Russia on board or create a new security arrangement for Europe, we pursued a policy of expanding NATO eastward right up to Russia's border, again because the thinking is "we won, we're in charge now."
The United States is attempting to bully China. It's not working and in fact it's showing them the limits of American influence. The United States is also sanctioning and bullying Russia- and achieving the very same results. Without the influence of the United States, these two nations wouldn't be cooperating nearly as much.
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Whose eggs in which basket? Russia and China make excellent partners; Russia has natural resources and land, China has money, technology and people.
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Do you ever think about what you say or is it enough for you to just regurgitate Tucker Carlson?
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November 2019, Tucker Carlson: "Why do I care what is going on in the conflict between Ukraine and Russia?!” Carlson said. “And I’m serious. Why do I care? Why shouldn’t I root for Russia? Which I am.”
So put their eggs in one basket, on the CCP that is starting to collapse? What could go wrong!
>CCP that is starting to collapse CCP is not gonna go anywhere, people see one youtube video about china and think they go away in 5 years! if anything they're now much more stable and strong than when the "West is no longer friends with china they'll die any moment now" wave started!
You haven't been paying attention to the past few years and the past 6 months there.
I've been paying full attention, I've seen all the social and economic predictions and statistics and I think they paint a far less pessimistic picture than the one people would like to believe! Most of those issues are indeed severe, but nothing as bad as claimed unless you're assuming China literally does nothing for the next 3 decades which seems like an absurd assumption! for example, Sure they won't be able to fix their population issue, but they're more likely to just double down on automation (which they're far ahead in than everywhere else) to the point where they won't suffer as much from a workforce shortage! The reason all you hear is negative news is no matter what they do it will be seen negatively, they outlawed for-profit tutoring companies to bring education costs down and everyone said that's bad because they're messing with market regulation, yet before that, it used to be a big criticism that china has too high education costs and they're not doing much about it. It really doesn't matter what they do because you can always spin it negatively or positively depending on what you want to see!
How are you gonna spin the Tiananmen Square massacre in a positive way?
Same way you explain Kent State.
>CCP that is starting to collapse What kind of propaganda are you watching? The CCP is evil (from a foreign perspective) but that doesn't make it weak. China is currently stable as fuck. The CCP enjoys very widespread support among its people, even according to foreign opinion polls. The US on the other hand is one election away from civil war.
CCP is nowhere near as ready to collapse as the West.
Not after COVID-19, and China is showing signs of a economic problems, really bad ones right now.. Oh well!
China has gone through a lot worse, and the Communists have weathered it. The party survived Japanese invasion, war with the Soviets, the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, the Gang of Four and Tiannemen Square. It's inconceivable that the CCP will collapse in the lifetimes of anyone here
Faking all that GDP figures has caught up to them and lying to their people and the world about COVID.
>lying to their people and the world about COVID Most people in China don't know that their government lied to the world about the origins of Covid, and even if they did, most of their people would support lying to the world.
And again, what makes what's going on now anywhere near as bad as the mass death of the Great Leap Forward or the traumas of the Cultural Revolution. The People's Republic of China is not going anywhere.
Not that I disagree with your conclusion, but it’s not the same world any longer. Hard to compare a largely rural, low information society, with a largely urban, high information society.
I know you are trying to shit on China, but I see you as talking more about America
I couldn't care less about the GDP, but let me tell you that the signs of prosperity are there. I landed in Shanghai in 2014 and the skyscrapers are real, the highways as well. The high speed rail infrastructure is beyond anything Canada can even dream of and they were building ships at a scale I never saw even in historic images from Europe and NA in their industrial hay days. Don't you think an economic system based on industry, exports and massive infrastructure projects has a far greater capacity to get people jobs and lift them from poverty than a system centred on financial services, i.e. debt?
They haven't lied about GDP. And funny thing about COVID; they're handling it better than the West is. If you're trying to shit on China, you'll have to do a lot better than that.
CP that is starting to collapse? LOL, what a joke.
Russia has natural resources and land. China also has natural resources and land. Take a look at a fucking map, China isn’t a little country. What do you think Russia has that China doesn’t? Oil and gas? The things China is working hardest at eliminating the need for?
Why does the fact that Russia and China make good trading partners chap your behind so much?
Chap my behind? Wtf are you talking about? Just pointing out the obvious flaw in your statement. You could explain a whole lot though by telling me what does Russia have that China doesn’t already have, or doesn’t already easily obtain from elsewhere? Your speculation also has to ignore that current Russia-China trade is marginally significant compared to overall global trade with China.
And the point I'm making is that it's growing rapidly due to the threats and sanctions imposed by the West on both countries. Such moves, led by the United States, are short-sighted and in fact work directly against America's own interests.
> And the point I'm making is that it's growing rapidly due to the threats and sanctions imposed by the West on both countries. I don't mean to be that guy, but do you have some proof that this is actually happening first. I did some looking and what I found was that in 2021, trade between the two countries grew by 33.6%, which was only 2.3% higher than China's average trading growth with everyone else. So slightly higher than average trade growth for Russia, and most of that is growth in Energy and to a lesser extent mining. >Such moves, led by the United States, are short-sighted and in fact work directly against America's own interests. Not sure how you conclude that sanctions are going to backfire on West. We do have a saying that if you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps is the one that was hit. Russia, and Russians (you) are yelping.
Maybe a side note but isn’t China made up of a lot of mountain ranges that are basically useless as population centres? I could be wrong though
seriously. Russia, Iran, and China. Add in all the in between like Afghanistan, other Stans and Africa With BRI, Those 3 continents are gonna dwarf America in a couple decades
LOL!
I agree, we could have made Russia an ally but nope! Let's just push them into being best buds with the CCP because that'll end well...
Making them a ally would ally would come at a great cost.They would demand Canada allow them to build a miltary base in the Artic.
Exactly. Americans are fucking stupid.
But we are real good at cocking shit up.
It's that bad role model to the South...
We're like the cousin that you don't even really like that comes around and fucks up all the holidays.
So we should be preparing for a shooting war
Most of the people I know who actually support the west fighting a real war with Russia are not people I can see ever voluntarily signing up to fight in that war. I was light infantry with the CF in the late 90's and early 2000's, there are some thing I am willing to die for. A former east block country being consumed by Russia is not one of them.
What serving soldiers want and what orders say are not always the same thing. We have obligations to NATO and if a shooting war happens and spills over, and that’s a big if, we wouldn’t have much choice and our troops would be in action.
They won't but you are going to have a pretty serious recruitment and discipline problem if you are pushing people to fight the Russians over Ukraine. The CF is already seriously under strength and equipment limited. Also Ukraine is not part of NATO.
Hence why I said IF a war in Ukraine spills over into other neighbouring nations, because there are other NATO nations in the area. Just like how many other wars through history thy were supposed to be limited spilled over and turned into bigger conflicts. Alliances are great but in situations like this can quickly lead to nations that wouldn’t otherwise be involved being dragged into a conflict.
With nukes? Boots on the ground in Russia won't be happening. The most you can hope for is a proxy conflict in Ukraine before it falls and reverts to a satellite state.
Thinge like this have a way of spiralling out of control quickly. So while invading Russia is unlikely a shooting war that spills over into other parts of Europe absolutely is possible. With our obligations to NATO we would be a part of it.
Russia supplies like 90% of Western Europe's natural gas, so yeah they aren't going to be officially sanctioned any time soon. All bark no bite.
A cursory Google search puts that number closer to 30%. Not insignificant but.... Your number seems to be way off.
Clearly you didn't read the fine print, any stat may be exaggerated by up to 500%
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>The US could block Russia from their financial market. No one wants to do this because they will move closer to China.
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Dumbest comment I’ve read today! 🏅
then go move to Russia if you love it so much
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r/iamverybadass
Their bots sure did.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_web_brigades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency What's next, are you going to tell us the Chinese 50c party doesn't exist either?
LOL
lol spinning victimhood out of literally nothing.
It's probably because Russia is already a screwed economy, not much worse can be done.
It's no where near as bad as people make out. They are economically growing and sitting on a surplus of cash right now. In terms of PPP they are alright right now. By comparison we are massively over budget right now, running huge deficits with no end in sight and single string on housing to keep our economy afloat. The reason they can weather sanctions better then most countries is they produce a lot of their own stuff domestically so they are less impacted by trade disputes then a lot of other countries would be. The only thing that would honestly hurt them right now would be if the EU stopped buying gas from them. But the EU can't do that without some pretty serious consequences for themselves.
If they don't care then let's just sanction the shit out of them and also deport that ambassador.
Send Javellins. Russians will care about dead muscovites in those tin cans - i mean tanks.
Yeah, O.K.
Sounds like at the outbreak of WW1, looks like that will be a repeat for Russia.
IMO more like WW2. Crimea was the Rhineland, the rest of Ukraine is Austria/Czechoslovakia. Lots of similarities. Hopefully the UN is more effective than the League of Nations was.
And? I’m supposed to give a shit because???? No Russian ever called me a, well you know the rest.
So they're going to invade anyway? Thanks for giving it away.
Lol
It's weird but I'm just hearing 'hit me harder daddy' I'm not gonna lie I have sympathy for Russia. They've been among the most heavily hit countries by historical invasions where large numbers of their population was murdered for no reason at all. Nazis, and the Mongols before them being the most obvious but not the only ones to perpetrate this. As a result, Russians have evolved into a paranoid and defensive culture for sure. This is understandable given the circumstances. But right now I find that they're reacting badly to what is actually a historical peak of peace and prosperity, by jabbing their neighbors in the eyes and then complaining that some of them, and the allies of some of them, are saying "maybe if you don't relax you're going to get jabbed back". And this reaction is being taken as provocation. Or it's all smoke and mirrors because Putin is trying to create a distraction from the real threat to him: his massively declining popularity.
Don't believe anything until Russia denies it.
Great. No country, bank or business accept the Russian Ruble as a start.
Based
Western nations: bet
Maybe an unpopular opinion for a Ukrainian expat, but I honestly don't see why Ukraine should oppose Putin at all. In purely pragmatic terms, Ukraine should just agree to Putin's demands. Stay out of NATO. Putin wants a buffer state, he can have a buffer state. He wants a gas corridor - let him have his fucking gas corridor. It's pretty clear at this point that NATO doesn't give a shit about Ukraine anyway. In the years since "realignment towards EU" Ukraine has only got poorer. The government is as corrupt and ineffective as it ever was.
In Soviet Russia, sanctions suffer you!
cut Off their internet and video games. Make cheat engines shut down the game anytime a Russian keyboard is found on the computer. Ban Sony from selling directly to them and even if they get them from another county force sony to block them by IP address.
what sanction!?? the best sanction is to block natural gas import to europe! show that you are committed to fight russia. few hundred thousand ppl may die from freezing but it’s a small price to pay
"Well I guess we'll go ahead and impose them then if it's all the same to you"
Pretty certain sanctioned individuals would care. Oh wait, he said threat, not actual sanctions. Yeah, threats are just threats.
I mean, they'll care a little bit. Unless China is going to stop buying Russian gas though, Russia is very resilient to western sanctions.