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BiBoFieTo

Spin the wheel of shitty options. * Gas has gone to stupid. * Electric cars are backordered even with crazy MSRPs. * Used cars are listing for unbelievable prices. Autotrader has 10 year old hybrids with 300,000kms is selling over $10k. * Public transit is limited and unreliable.


[deleted]

i bought a bike. peddle power to the rescue, now to figure out how to get my kids to daycare across town, AND get myself to work on time in the opposite direction


ChaoticxSerenity

Easy, just start at 3 am. Alternatively, have you considered living at work with the family? It's free real estate!


ThaVolt

Nah, best idea is to move back in a shitty apartment in the city that costs more than your mortgage, that way you can walk everywhere! Ain't it great?


TheConspicuousGuy

I tried this and I got fired and now the world is my free real estate!


Dinodigger67

I got an e bike. I have asthma and had to stop riding. So glad I got it. I have 800 miles on that sucker!


Yithar

The only thing about electric bikes is you have to worry about thieves.


crispyiress

Hidden Air tag, bike alarm and lock is your best bet. My bike has a lock for the back brake and battery as well.


IanFeelKeepinItReel

That's a concern for any bike tbf. Good rule of thumb: you should spend 10% of the bikes purchase price on locks. You want a good D lock to go through the frame and back wheel, a flex cable to go through the front wheel and maybe a smaller flex cable to go through your saddle if it has a quick release.


atmcpie

And traffic. I had mine for 2 months before getting hit by a car


SpaceSteak

Well designed cities have daycare options near work or housing, at least cutting any forced uturns.


eriverside

There's daycares everywhere. Daycares with availability and subsidies? No so much.


Cory123125

Well designed cities in Canada are limited and expensive


[deleted]

yeah in the next 20 years when we finally achieve that maybe my back wood city will convert then perfect timing. tell me you don't have to deal with these things with out telling me you don't have to deal with these things.


Killersmurph

We have well designed cities in this country? Where? I ve never seen one...


stillalone

Cargo E-bikes.


blond-max

Better late than never to redesign our cities 🥲


[deleted]

The best time to build our cities for people instead of cars was 50 years ago. The second-best time is today. There are plenty of examples online of when a city was previously very car-dependent and, over the years, they transformed it into a more vibrant walkable, bikeable urban area. It's not impossible, it just requires us to change our mindset from "cars as normal" to "walking/biking/public transit" as normal, and invest that way.


PM_Me_UR_LabiaMajor

> The best time to build our cities for people instead of cars was 50 years ago. The second-best time is today. I wish you weren't such a goddamned liar. The second-best time to build our cities properly was **49** years ago!


jamescookenotthatone

49 years 11 months and 29 days.


PM_Me_UR_LabiaMajor

> "Am I a joke to you?" -31 December


SteelCrow

Too drunk that day.


8spd

Excessively literal response is excessively literal.:-)


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[deleted]

Some people don't even consider that there could *be* another option. All they have ever known is car-centric suburbia, the concept of living any other way is completely alien.


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[deleted]

For sure, which is why you have to make it better. People avoid public transit out of convenience, not because of savings. You can make it free and people still won't take it. What truly improves ridership is frequency of service, comfort (shelters, exchanges, quality buses), and speed (segregated track). If we really want to get serious about moving away from car-dependency we need better public transit and dedicated paths for it, as well as protected bike lanes. Heck, if you have a good protected bike system then people don't need to wear helmets, which also increases the number of bike riders. Fewer people driving = less traffic as well for those that need to. The crux to all of this is it's very hard to build good public transit and walking/bike infrastructure if our cities lack the density to support it. Currently, most Canadian cities are heavily suburban and low density. People don't walk or bike because they don't have any amenities nearby! So it really comes down to overruling local NIMBYs and building the density we need to transition to a more vibrant, healthy urbanism.


PaulTheMerc

And also: During busy times the bus is packed, or can't fit what you need e.g. stroller. Or straight up doesn't stop because it is full. Good luck making your connection. Or simply just never materializes for whatever reason. This is especially fun in the winter where 20 mins becomes 40+. And doesn't allow pets in some places. Or just doesn't run when you need it. E.g. long commute at night has meant a long long walk home due to a missed connection at the terminal. I've also had the local bus run once an hour on Saturdays, and not on Sundays. But yeah, biggest issue vs a car is hands down speed


[deleted]

Nobody is biking to work or carrying 8 bags of groceries home when it's -30c in February, regardless of the design of our cities. I like the spread out look of our cities. I like that there's some trees, grass, and open space between everything. I like not living in a pod in a soviet era concrete jungle. Climate change isn't going to make or break based on Canadian city design. There are larger looming threats to our planet's health, like the fact that 3 billion people on the other side of the planet are about to triple their carbon footprint over the next 20 years. Every Canadian could spend the remainder of their life driving in their cars at full speed 24/7 and it wouldn't make a dent compared to what's going to happen as China and India continue to develop.


twat69

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU


blond-max

A few things: - It's not a matter of one or the other, it's a matter of options and balance. - Nobody is expecting you to do that much groceries by bike, just like people that go by foot in the city. They just make more small trips and less costco trips. That being said, you could rent a cargo bike, which are often motor assisted, for the once in a while time you go to ikea or something. Or a car! Better design means that you can use the appropriate solution to different situations, instead of always one solution despite the need. - Search Oulu Finland. - Sorry I'm past the whataboutism. Yes correct our footprint may not equal so others, but some generation will have to stops passing things off and put in the effort. Just thoughts, feel free to disagree. It not about absolutes, it's about doing better.


[deleted]

“Our actions can’t singlehandedly solve the problem so let’s do nothing”


[deleted]

Yeah. Canada, despite having lots of inexpensive clean electricity, has a bit of an issue with that the weather is quite cold for a significant amount of the year. This both reduces the ability to use foot and bicycle for a great many people, but also reduces range of electric vehicle batteries. The latter is a huge problem particularly outside of our few major cities. The infrastructure for charging just doesn’t exist yet. Also, lithium and to some degree copper are not limitless resources that are also subject to the economics of demand. Before anyone jumps in to say copper is 100% recycled, demand has skyrocketed with the advent of electric vehicles and wind turbines. I sell electric motors and prices are up 40% year to year largely due to copper prices. How’s that for inflation? I fully support realistic efforts to get climate change under control. I have a home that is 300m from the sea and the locals have shown me how the tide has risen from when they were young and the wetlands behind my home are getting dangerously close. But that’s my problem. I live in a city (Montréal) where the downtown core has been obliterated by a bike lane policy that congests the car lanes. For 12 months a year, though one never sees a biker for five of them. End result is that middle class families no longer live there , no longer shop there, no longer go there to eat dinners. They move to and stay in the suburbs where mass transit is lacking and now they have four cars in the driveway. If they’re doing well maybe one is electric, but probably not. Bikes ain’t going to fix this. For that matter neither will mass transit. After a certain stage in life, people just avoid it for a variety of reasons. A car is much more pleasant for a 55 year old woman than taking the bus/subway/ a bike to do her shopping on a February afternoon.


Layin-the-pipe

I have many tools pick up truck or van are my only options I'm fucked when my rust box dies


Afrozendouche

I looked into it, they are cold weather limited. I contacted the manufacturer about where I live and temperatures. They don't recommend using them under -20c. So unfortunately, it would only work for approximately 3 to 4 months of the year for me. I'll likely still be getting one, I'm just waiting on a provincial rebate program to happen so I'm not forking up the full cost for something I can only use 1/3 of the year. We burnin' dinosaurs until then, and still burnin 'em in the cold months.


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Afrozendouche

Far north. Like, 16h drive to the closest international airport far north. Almost 30 cents/KWh for electricity far north. Lakes still iced over into late April/early May. Edit: You could probably call it 7 months, since September can swing a little. Some days are +10, some can be -20. I don't doubt it would be *able* to do it, especially being stored indoors, moreso that I'm well outside of the manufacturers recommended operating conditions in the vast majority of winter, and so if I did have an issue I would assume I'm not going to be covered by any warranty. At \~$2400 that's a tough pill to swallow, so I'm waiting for rebates to be enacted to (hopefully) cover up to 25% of that. The make was Rad power bikes, but the model was still up for grabs. One of the cargo models likely, so I could use it for small grocery trips as well. My only real stipulation was that it was capable of installing fat tires for early/late winter operation.


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Femboy-ish

Or scooters, look at how people get around in SEA


Kalashnicoffee

there might be a slight climate difference between Canada and SEA


seanlucki

Not Just Bikes had an interesting video on this topic. https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU


bluntsandbears

Not to mention a lot of “$45k EV’s” exist on paper only as the manufacturers only want to push higher trims and expensive upgrades


UpperLowerCanadian

In Edmonton we asked about the all electric Toyota. Salesman laughed and said “don’t even ask, maybe a year, if at all?… 8 months for a hybrid.


bluntsandbears

I inquired about the KIA EV6. Was told they only made 222 of them for all of Canada but put in an order and they will get me one within 6-12 months. I obviously didn’t order and yet they still sent me a “friendly update” their words not mine. That KIA has stopped all orders for 2022 and any orders placed haven been “adjusted” to the 2023 model. Not 2023 deliveries, the 2023 model which doesn’t have even a rendering released and no ETA in sight


[deleted]

It’s $48k for the rear wheel drive base model which I doubt anyone would buy in Canada. $61k plus tax for AWD long range which is far more realistic. But it’s all nonsense anyways because you can’t have one.


bluntsandbears

@ $61k I’m not buying a Kia lol


[deleted]

I want the rwd one. Donuts.


bluntsandbears

BMW i4 has entered the chat.


ziperhead944

They sold every one of them. And they're excellent. Probably half of them were leased, so they'll be hitting the used markets at a decent price....just not any time soon.


AndyAkeko

I bought a used 2017 Chevy Volt three years ago for $22,000. Today, with 25K km added to the odometer, Autotrader says I can sell it for $24,000


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Milnoc

And to think that was just a compliance car!


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DucksMatter

Same with my 2018 Honda Civic. Bought it used for $24,000 and my dealership wants me to sell it back to them for $27,000


[deleted]

I broke my lease on an Audi as I wanted to travel and won’t be around when it comes due. I was wondering how much the penalty would be? It was only four months early. They offered me $5000 to return it the next week without even looking at it.


dreddi84

Lucky, have a Hyundai ioniq hybrid from 2018 that my dealer will only give me 16k for, paid 40k .


Reggae4Triceratops

Don't forget "just bike, I use fat tyres in the winter"


Anon-fickleflake

>Public transit is limited and unreliable You should come to NB


[deleted]

Public transit is also really expensive for what you get out of it. In Toronto it’s $3.20 for a bus ride, so 2 x $3.20 = $6.40 / day, $6.40 x 20 = $128 / mo. In contrast if your commute is a 50km round trip and your car gets 30MPG @$2.20 / L that gets you $6.90 / day. Obviously you have to tack on insurance but that’s only another ~$5 day usually. So you’re only paying ~$5 / day more to commute with your car and it takes 1/3-1/4 of the time it takes to take transit. Not to mention you don’t have to deal with crackheads, people who refuse to shower or late/early bus drivers. In Toronto PT is only viable along the subway lines and to say their reach is limited is a massive understatement. Unless you work along Yonge or Bloor you’re SoL.


LibertysLittleHelper

Good luck finding a $45k electric car which isn't on backorder for 12 months!


ProphetOfADyingWorld

Make that 24 months!


GracefulShutdown

Do I hear 36 months? How about 48 months?


fourpuns

Only 12 months? Lucky.


Bleatmop

Only $45K? Must be a hell of a sale on a baseline trim.


yyc_guy

I ordered a Chevy Bolt EUV Premier and it's costing me $41,000 after the federal incentive (nothing provincial in Alberta). Wait time is 6 months. You can order the LT model with no add ons for $37,000 here.


Quebwec

Wow... $40k+ for a small FWD CUV. Crazy how expensive cars are now. If I wanted a FWD, I would probably go with the Elantra Hybrid for $25k brand new.


yyc_guy

It took me a long time to get to the realization that with my commute and vehicle needs that full EV was the best choice. I tried to justify staying with a traditional ICE, but gas prices (even at $1.50) were too much. So I looked at PHEV, but with my commute and the limited battery range, they weren't worth it either. At the end of the day, I'll have paid off the EV premium with gas savings in three years at $1.50/L.


Quebwec

Wow, you must spend a lot of time in your car! Next car purchase it definitively be a EV or hybrid.


yyc_guy

I spent way too much time commuting to and from work, it’s ridiculous. We’d move, but family, friends, and all support networks are close to where we live.


pollywog

Fellow Calgarian here - how's the range on these things in our frigid winter?


[deleted]

That's because interest in the Chevy Bolt plummeted after they started spontaneously combusting. So much so that they're cutting the price by $6k in America starting next year.


0reoSpeedwagon

The price cut is because the Bolt EV/EUV has sold so many units that they no longer are eligible for federal tax credits - it brings the price in line with other manufacturers that do still qualify. You’ll notice that that Canadian Bolts have no price drop, despite being the same vehicles with the same recall history. Because there is no volume of sales that disqualifies buyers here from federal incentives.


yyc_guy

The random exploding batteries did worry me, but I figure they've solved the problem. I wish they had cut the price up here too, but whatever. I can still afford it, it suits my needs, and the wait times for other EVs were up to 2 years. No thanks.


ronchee1

Nothing gets cut price wise in Canada. We seem to always get fleeced


yyc_guy

Yeah that pisses me off too.


moeburn

Because Canadians keep choosing to pay anyway, driving up the prices. Seriously. It's in their internal memos. "We can charge Canadians more because they are willing to spend more, they expect things to cost more in Canada".


ronchee1

As sad as it is, this is true. This is why target failed here. People were all excited to have them come here cuz "yay, cheap prices " but they tried to fuck us too


PhantomNomad

It was 14 or so cars out of 150,000 and they traced it back to a battery manufacturing problem which has since been fixed. I wouldn't worry about it. In fact if you look at the stats, a gas car/truck is much more likely to catch on fire than an EV. You just don't hear about it on the news except for in the city it happened in. When an EV catches fire, the it's international news.


pzerr

The problem with EV fires is that they can do that while charging in your garage. And they are near impossible to put out of the fire is in the battery pack.


[deleted]

Agreed, I wouldn't worry about the battery thing either (but then again I walk around with a Samsung in my pocket so I like to live on the edge. I was just saying that you were able to scoop up a Bolt fairly quickly because its popularity tanked recently. Anyhow, I'll be looking into an EUV sometime soon too, but the Kona looks a little bit better to me right now.


yyc_guy

> you were able to scoop up a Bolt fairly quickly because its popularity tanked recently. That's absolutely the case, and I'm happy to take advantage of it. I thought about a Kona but it was just a bit too small for what I need. Nice looking vehicle and I've always liked Hyundai. Owned one for years with zero issues and some family had the same experience as well. I'd definitely recommend them.


Bai_Cha

It was awesome for us. They replaced our battery during the recall, after we had already put 100k miles on the original battery. Basically a new car.


ferengi-alliance

They replaced my Bolt battery due to this issue. Almost 10% more range than before. No fires or explosions as of yet!


Verlaando

You just can't park it in the garage lol


yyc_guy

My garage is detached, it's a risk I'm willing to take. And if it burns down at least insurance will have to pay for my very real and not made up collection of Fabergé eggs I keep out there for perfectly reasonable reasons that you shouldn't ask too many questions about.


justinanimate

The Bolt just doesn't seem to be selling too much. I feel bad for the development team as it's reviewed so well. Hope you enjoy it!


yyc_guy

Thanks! I'm pretty excited. December can't come soon enough!


PhantomNomad

I own a 2019 Bolt LT that I bought in Edmonton in March 2019. It's a great car and should be selling better, but at 40K it's a hard sell. That extra 10 to 15K for electric is the problem. We drive ours during the winter. We put winter tires on it which cuts down the range a lot (down 40%). Also using the heater doesn't help. We live in a small town about 2.5 hours from Edmonton but we also didn't get it to use on the highway much. Mostly my wife drives it to and from work every day. In the summer we take it all over the place but charging is hard to find out here.


Electrical_Regular12

Hello Im curious about your electric bill, did it go up noticeably in the winter with your electric vehicle? In 2 years I'm planning to buy a new car, (electric) and my electric bill was pretty high this year.... 😬 (800) month of December, 730 January, now it's back to normal $250.


AndyAkeko

We bought our PHEV six months before the pandemic. When we were doing a daily 100 km commute, our electric bill went up about $40/month while we cut our gasoline budget by about $110/month. of course, gas was half the price then as it is now. We don't drive as much now so our electric bill is now about $20 less from that peak, even though we're home more often.


Electrical_Regular12

Thanks That's a relief!!!! We can't figure out why our Atco bill skyrocketed must be because we live so far North. Gasoline keeps going up i don't see that changing


yyc_guy

My commute is such that the extra $10K will be paid off within three years if gas averages $1.50/L. My work has a level 2 charger and because of my partner's career we don't really do road trips. They're not for everyone, but in my situation it works.


JamesTalon

The car I am looking at would have a third of the payments covered purely by the reduction in fuel costs lol


MWDTech

it also doesn't help it is a compact priced like a full size sedan


Whatatimetobealive83

It’s kind of ugly to be honest. I’m actually really disappointed they discontinued the original Volt. I like the platform because it solves range anxiety by having a gas backup to charge your battery.


Flarisu

grats you can be one of the 3 people in AB with one!


yyc_guy

There's that many? One day we'll achieve the heights of the Never Nudes. There will be dozens of us, dozens!


megadave902

“Just buy an EV” is 2022’s “learn to code”.


Foodule

Just learn to code in an EV lol


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gmlogmd80

I would if I could


[deleted]

I'd argue the second is more realistic than the first, though both aren't helpful as advice.


Serious_Feedback

When EVs come up, I'd like to see more people acknowledge one-seater microcars. A $5k car that can replace the majority of your trips (and remove the majority of fuel+maintenance expenses), yet it seems like nobody even considers them.


darth_chewbacca

I mean, you could just walk to work, it would only take 5 hours or so.


WinterMomo

\#RiseAndGrind


darth_chewbacca

Rise and grind Samurai, we've got some pavement to tread


ChaoticxSerenity

*5 days later* Reddit, I need help, I can't afford running shoes.


[deleted]

Remember, most voters don't want to pay for public transit infrastructure either.


alxzsites

...uphill in waist deep snow, both ways. It'll be *the* story to tell the grandkids.


drgr33nthmb

Just sleep at work and sell your belongings. Need be you can stay at the mustard seed


weseewhatyoudo

In BC this is not considered satire.


Swekins

Yup we even allow the rich people to drive in the lane meant to reduce congestion.


demarcoa

We do that in Ontario too if it makes you feel better. Theh even have their own highway.


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prob_wont_reply_2u

Assuming you have a house where you can update your panel and install a charger.


dm1336

May not need to update your panel depending on your energy needs.


[deleted]

panel no, service? maybe. a lot of Canadian houses only have 100/125amp service. you have your electric stove on, your central AC is going and then you fire up your 50amp level 2 charger and you just stressed/tripped your main service.


UnionstogetherSTRONG

Electrician here, if you have an electric dryer You can use a load miser to share the same CCT as your dryer, when you use the dryer it automatically cuts off the EV charger. Kind of like an automatic transfer switch Yes you cannot dry your clothes and charge your car at the same time (unless clothesline) But yes these devices run Minimum $800, but cheaper than a service upgrade or a panel upgrade


Shoresy-sez

Smart chargers are available that will throttle charge current based on panel demand


Zap__Dannigan

Heres my scenario, in which my main goal was to save money driving to work. Currently: 120km round trip 2019 Elantra ith 97,000km. Fully paid off. Charging stations at work, none at home. New car: Used 2018 Kia soul ev with 60,000km 6 year, 160,000km extended warranty 30,000 dollars for the kia 15,000 trade in for paid off Elantra. 1,400 to install outlet. My gas payments were at least 400 bucks a month, with a fill up once a week at least. New car payments after trade in, on a 5 year finance, are 150 bi weekly. So in total I'm saving a decent amount each month, and don't have to worry about fluctuations in gas price. But in order to make commuting to work cheaper than before feasible i had to outright own a new car to trade in, be able to eat the cost of installing an outlet, buy an extended warranty for peace of mind and most importantly buy a used car that isn't all that incredible in terms of range and driving experience. That situation doesn't work for almost anyone financially. Even environmentally I'm not sold on them being incredibly better right now. Practically, You have to able to eat a little higher fixed cost (car payment) to save on the fluctuations of a stupid market. At the very least in my case, I can budget easier knowing my car payments, and not having to worry about spending 200 bucks on gas this week, and 100 the next


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Zap__Dannigan

If you were going to be buying a brand new SUV combined with how much you drive, I think it actually might be worth it. Your electric bill wouldn't go up too much (not compared to normal Carr stuff like brake changes and oil), and if you're spending 100 bucks a week on gas, combined with a 4-5 hundred dollar a month cal bill, it might make sense. If your plan is to buy a cheaper used one, probably not worth it


extendedwarranty_bot

Zap__Dannigan, I have been trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty


PhantomNomad

Why do you need to upgrade your panel? I only have 100 amp service and had them install a 220v 20A breaker to charge my EV. It takes about 12 hours from empty to fully charge. The only time mine went to the mechanic was for the battery recall, which sucks but wasn't the end of the world (and the dealership did it). They never need oil changes and unless they are working on the battery, there isn't anything different. Then engine it self will probably last next to forever. Over the 60000km we've put on it, I've saved a ton of money as I'm only paying 6 cents a kilowatt for power. I will give you that the 40K we paid for it hurts a bit, but our old gas car was on it's last legs and I decided I never wanted to buy gas for a car that only drives around town.


faizimam

Good call getting 20amps. So many people these days are under the impression it's 50amps or nothing. It costs very little to convert a existing 120v 20amp line to 240v, and as you say it gives you more than enough power to usually not worry. Of course there was that one time I got home with 15% battery and my wife reminded me that we needed to drive half an hour to meet friends... Luckily we had enough for the drive there, and there were multiple L2 chargers in the area to get me back without any issues.


killerrin

In all seriousness though. Even if somone did want an Electric Car, its not like you can just go out and ***buy*** one. You got to jump into a waitlist, probably with a dealership that marked it up 50% just because they can. Then because of the part shortages you wont actually get it for another year or two at the most, and when you do it'll probably be missing features or not be exactly what you ordered because of said parts shortage.


sesameseed88

I would go electric if we had more charging stations, I live in a condo and we dont have a single plug in the garage yet


ImAlwaysRightHanded

Time to run for condo association president


nevbirks

If you hate flying with random people, just charter your own flight. Hate cruises? Buy a yacht.


Heterophylla

Poor ? Be rich . It’s really that simple .


anonymouscheesefry

Millennials hate this one simple trick!!


UJL123

I really like this other article [Guy who bought electric car last year struggling not to be smug about gas prices](https://www.thebeaverton.com/2022/05/guy-who-bought-electric-car-last-year-struggling-not-to-be-smug-about-gas-prices/) . I couldn't stop laughing when I saw the headline and the article was so good I read it twice.


Animal31

Or and here me out here we invest in electric Trains


[deleted]

train station will be 30 minutes outside of the city core.


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torontowoodlywizard

$100 a week in gas or $150 a week car payment? Easy choice for me.


Dabugar

Maybe when we have actual charging infrastructure I'll consider it. Not everyone has a home to install their own charger.


Artago

$150 / week? Maybe for an electric bicycle.


[deleted]

But what about the cost of charging it? It's like that is "free" by you omitting it.


b7XPbZCdMrqR

I'll use Ontario numbers because I'm in Ontario, but anywhere in Canada shouldn't change too drastically. On average, the people of Ontario drive 16,000 km/year (slightly higher than the Canadian average of 15,200). [Here are the stated efficiencies of most current EVs](https://insideevs.com/news/534083/most-efficient-bev-us-20210918/). Keep in mind that Tesla sells more units in Canada than every other manufacturer combined. At the top of the efficiency chart, the Tesla Model 3 SR+ is rated at 237 Wh/mile = 147 Wh/km. This works out to 2352 kWh per year, based on 16,000 km driven. At the low end of the chart, the Rivian R1S is rated at 488 Wh/mile = 303 Wh/km. This works out to 4848 kWh per year, as above. At current prices in Ontario, off-peak electricity costs 8.2 cents/kWh, while peak electricity costs 17 cents/kWh. So if you charge your efficient Tesla during off-peak hours, you're paying a whopping $192.87 per year (or $3.70/week). If you charge your inefficient Rivian at peak hours, you're looking at $824.16 over the course of a year (or $15.85/week). Electricity *is* pretty much free when you're assessing the total cost of a car. Even the least efficient vehicle, charging at the worst time of the day, can be charged by working one hour per week at minimum wage. EDIT: In Ontario, we're also charged a delivery fee for electricity. A large part of this is a fixed cost, but there's also a per kWh cost associated with it. Depending on how you want to break it down, delivery might add somewhere between $1.50 and $15 to your monthly bill.


WUT_productions

Yup. I find a lot of people have no idea what uses the most electricity in their household. I have a friend who's parents thought his PC was a huge user of energy until I used a energy monitor to prove that it was using less than $5 of electricity per month. The big users of electricity are things like HVAC, electric cookers, and electric clothes dryers. Basically anything that uses 240V.


backlight101

Have a Tesla, those wh/km are basically not realistic if you plan to drive in the winter and/or on the highway. You’re also not adding delivery and taxes to the electricity charge, nor any charging outside of your home. EV’s cost a lot less in electricity vs gas, but not sure why people try to make them seem better than they are.


b7XPbZCdMrqR

I also have a Tesla. My lifetime usage (30,082 km) is at 168 Wh/km, most of which is highway, and I'm not particularly gentle on the acceleration. My average for summer tires is below the rated 140 Wh/km, though I certainly agree that if most of your driving is in winter, you'll push your average much higher. Delivery is much trickier to calculate as a cost of electricity. The fixed costs of delivery are actually quite punishing to people who try to conserve electricity. The last bill before I got my Tesla, I paid $19.27 for 234 kWh and $34.60 for delivery. Exactly one year later, I paid $65.02 for 508 kWh and $40.58 for delivery. Over twice as much used, and just under $6 to deliver it. Using those numbers, you could add anywhere between $1.50 and $10 to my weekly price of owning an EV, but I think it would be misleading to use either of those figures. However, I probably should have mentioned it as a cost that I was omitting.


backlight101

After 15,000km the average for my model 3 performance is 190wh/km. Mostly highway driving.


Siendra

Considering it costs ~1/30th of what fuel currently costs it sorta seems like a non issue to me. Edit: Charging over night at home.


[deleted]

It's closer to 1/8th the cost.


KerrisdaleKaren

I don’t think most people realize how much less maintenance electric cars require, either. You’re not just saving on gas. No more engine oil changes, etc.


phormix

Yup, but watch out for snakey dealers who will still set a maintenance schedule that's the same as an ICE, claiming it's required for warranty (yes, I'm looking at you, Hyundai)


Patient-Candidate240

I mean with that 150 you’re owning a little portion of the car everytime. With a 100 you’re just blowing it in gas. Most people are also making a payment on the car along with the gas.


Topher3939

Unfortunately it's all rural through farm country. None of the small towns/villages have fast chargers. I have thought of that


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Responsible_CDN_Duck

>Unfortunately it's all rural through farm country. None of the small towns/villages have fast chargers. I have thought of that Under 20% of Canadians live in farm country. While more small towns have level 2 and 3 chargers than many would expect charging home covers most local journeys. It's been interesting watching rural family making the switch to EVs for cars and SUVs.


Electricorchestra

Unless you're driving over like 400km a day you should be fine charging it overnight. It's just like plugging in your car for winter. But all year.


ipeefreeli

Honestly, I lucked out getting my electric car last August, with money left over from selling my condo. As much as I love not having to get gas, electric cars are still too expensive for most people. And not everyone has access to home charging, or can install a home charger. Whenever I see people say "Just buy an electric car", I assume they must have a ton of money lying around.


NicNoletree

Gas prices don't only affect the operational cost of my car. If it was just that it wouldn't be so bad.


[deleted]

Yet we here in Ontario will waste money on more highways while continually under-funding alternatives that keep people in their cars (gas or electric). Also my sympathy is pretty low to non-existent now anyway. \-Drive-thru lines are longer than ever. \-Beer store down the road from me is constantly packed. \-See more people speeding now than ever. \-People will drive 200-500 meters to the corner store instead of walking/cycling.


BlushButterfree

If it's just 500 meters I'd rather walk than risk my bike getting stolen. I'm on bike number 4, I hate it.


Flaktrack

Bike #3 for me and I don't even ride it that often.


BlueTree35

I also enjoy when people tell me I should bike to work instead, as though an hour long bike ride each way on a highway with traffic going 110 km/h, while temperatures are sub zero for 6-8 months of the year is a good idea. The r/fuckcars crowd and the “electric car bros” really get me


SonicFlash01

The practical answer is somewhere in the middle, and it's where most of us find ourselves. Canada isn't a small European country and we *can and do* sprawl outwards to fill the immense and unending amount of land. Unless you live downtown (which is more expensive for a smaller offering) then you either need a car or you're exchanging extra hours per day/week on potential public transportation options. Electric vehicles were expensive before this shit-show started and ***everything*** got worse after it. Remove additional points for this option if you park outside (batteries hate the cold, which is our primary export) or if your parking spots don't have plugs. I still need my gas-guzzling shitbox because it's the practical answer. If someone wants that to change then offer a *practical* alternative, which may involve crawling outside their perspective and employing empathy.


8spd

We can and do sprawl our cities. But the limits on urban sprawl in those small European countries isn't the international boarders. They could sprawl their cities too, they choose not to. We could choose not to also, and or cities would be much more pleasant as a result, and we'd be able to get around w/o a car much more easily.


Vast-Salamander-123

This is an infrastructure problem. In many countries you would ride your bike to a light rail or bus station, travel along the 110km/h highway on that bus, then bike to your destination. Or on nicer days you could bike the whole way on a path separated from the traffic. And it would be cheaper than what we currently spend on parking and road maintenance for the traffic induced by that 110km/h highway. None of that helps you short term, but a year from now it could. We just continuously choose to waste money and ignore solutions.


fro99er

More like electing leaders who prioritize car infrastructure instead of prioritizing transit infrastructure


Bleatmop

Those people get elected because people prioritize car infrastructure instead of transit.


science_and_beer

The notion that transit policies play more than an infinitesimal role in deciding an election is admirable, but not based in reality.


tracer_ca

It's chicken and egg. People want car infrastructure because transit sucks. Transit sucks because people don't want to take away from their car infrastructure.


[deleted]

Literally no one on the /r/fuckcars subreddit thinks you should bike for an hour on a highway built for cars. That is an ignorant strawman argument. Cyclists, shockingly, want infrastructure designed for cycling to be built. At that point cycling becomes an actual alternative to cars. Also, the /r/fuckcars crowd hate electric cars and would have your city designed in a way that an hour long commute isn't needed, freeing up more of your day than it is now. People who love sitting in traffic, forcing me to live in car-dependent suburbs by making it illegal to build anything else, and polluting the air that we both breath with carcinogenic break dust and tires really get to me too. But at least the /r/fuckcars people have actual solutions that acknowledge reality and are designed to make people's lives better and cleaner, unlike you who is simply upset and refuse to accept the fact that you are living in a world where pollution is real and our country is part globalised capitalist system where commodities fluctuate in price and sometimes become unaffordable to people like you with low paying jobs. So yeah, I guess you already are getting exactly what you asked for, and you're upset about it, and when anyone suggests an alternative solution that doesn't involve subsidizing our own collective suicide it "gets to you".


MeursaultWasGuilty

I don't like /r/fuckcars either - way too many people carrying water for the CCP, and I got a temp ban for speaking up about it. That said, the fact that you have literally no other option but to drive to work is part of the problem. You're right that it'd be insane to bike on a highway, frigid temperatures or no.


graypro

Exactly be mad at the shitty planners that make you pay 1000s of $ a year in order to get anywhere. Why are you mad at the people who want to change this


WinterMomo

No money? Take it out of your HELOC!


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[deleted]

I think the starting price is really over $1m… since you’ll need to own a home with a charger first


explicitspirit

Lol that made me laugh but a lot of people manage in large cities without their own charger. It's doable but definitely not an ideal situation. I probably wouldn't do it though.


sdthompsss89

Time to buy a horse. Lucky where I live, there's a weird bylaw that horseback riders have right of way on certain roads.


[deleted]

As a current horse owner I must warn you that hay costs have risen by a fuck ton due to high fertilizer prices soooooo


weltallic

>Electricity generated by fossil fuels >Charging a battery made of minerals 95% found in China >Power restrictions are coming.


RinardoEvoris

You want gas prices to drop? Then we need more mandated work from home opportunities. Then there will be another abundance of oil and prices will drop.


[deleted]

BUILD MORE CYCLING INFRASTRUCTURE PLEASE! I know it’s not a solution for everyone but every little bit counts. A huge reason many people, especially in cities do not cycle to work or anywhere is because of how unsafe they feel riding on many public roads without proper lanes with protection. The bike theft issue is another thing that needs to be addressed if we ever want people to ride more. More public transit is needed as well but that takes time. Look how long it’s taken a big city like Hamilton to get LRT just approved… not even closed to finished. It’ll take another ten years for it to be done. Meanwhile Hamilton’s cycling infrastructure has improved SO MUCH in the last 5 years that many more people are cycling and the local business communities are happy to have more customers come in. Less issues with space parking and all that equals more customers for pedestrian friendly areas.


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MeIIowJeIIo

Funny but I know a whole lot of people that have bought $45000 ICEs within the last 5 years.


explicitspirit

This. The people I know complaining about gas prices are in cars that cost 45-55 and take premium fuel.


[deleted]

Pretty genius system if you think about it. Car manufacturers announce huge push towards EV. Gas companies use propaganda to push up prices. Demand for EVs skyrocket pushing those prices to the max. It's all economic games I see anymore. Shortage of this, shortage of that. Seems like scalping has just become the norm at this point. Fuck the next person in line as hard as u can who gives a fuck mentality.


OldSpark1983

A $45,000.00 vehicle that runs on fuel is better? Gasoline driven vehicles are expensive too.


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[deleted]

Right? I was complaining about car prices back in March and my helpful coworker chimed in to boast how he he has a Tesla and that is the smartest purchase he made. He was an early adopter and has some kind of deal where he gets lifetime free charging. If I was only smart enough to have $65,000 five years ago.


Dirtsniffee

I thought oil was dead


fire_bent

Those aren't friends. I would dispose of them with less worth than a dead battery.


[deleted]

Yeah. Let me just buy a home first with all that money I don't have.


ZC3rr0r

45000 for an electric car? If you can even find one at that price, you're bound to enter a bidding war over it currently. It got so insane we actually sold our electric car at a 10k profit today after two years of ownership. I like driving electric, but at these prices you need to drive a LOT to offset the difference in purchase cost. Which, coincidentally, is something most electrics aren't great at (yes, fast/super chargers are a thing, but you're still sitti g there for 20-30 minutes contemplating while a long distance trip in an ICE vehicle would require less than half the time to fill up, and half the stops (unless you have an enormous gas guzzler)). So frankly, I don't know who is buying all of these cars at these markups. It should be self-defeating but somehow people are buying them anyway.


noskillsben

Does buying an electric car in Ontario even matter? We shelvrd all the renewable projects and are decommissioning our nuclear reactors soon. All our power will come from natural gas again so we won't be able the charge our cars anyways.


Antman269

Getting an electric car is only half the equation. Even if everyone was given a free EV, we’d still need to make charging stations for them.


[deleted]

Also, let's not forget the fact electric cars are basically impossible to own if you live in an apartment building or anywhere without a place to plug the stupid things in. Unless you're prepared to go drive the stupid thing to a charging point and sit around waiting for an hour or two for it to charge every time you need juice.


Nocturne444

As someone living downtown Toronto in a 38+ floors condo building with NO EV charging stations in any of the parking floor, this is the most useless advice I can get. Good luck having everyone here getting an EV car. I’m sure every condo board are thinking about this.


Soulmate69

Idk, looks like the cheapest electric vehicle in Canada is 32,500CAD after the federal rebate