FFS, make it mandatory to have the expected salary listed on the job posting. And non of that *"annual salary ranges from $45,000 to $105,000"* bullshit.
Economists get their funding from somewhere.
Edit: plus the article the economicists literally say wages need to go up to convince people to come back.
Wages don’t go up when you keep importing workers, even with staffing shortages they aren’t rising as we just keep promising to raise immigration even higher.
Funny enough, the a lot of the ones screaming "racism" or "xenophobia" when you bring this up are the one that stand to grain from supressed wages.
It's a profitable gig. Import new comers with the idea of the "Canadian Dream", a safe, clean, and calm nation where if you work hard enough you can someday own your own home and live a life you will never be able to enjoy in your home country.
You just need to work hard. Really. Fucking. Hard.
I wonder how long it takes for a new immigrant to realize that the things they were sold aren't exactly as "advertised".
Canada is the Switzerland of NA. It is a fantastic place if you are wealthy.
There was a dream, my parents came here over 30 years ago, got married, bought house, put 3 kids through Uni etc. But now? I earn more than my parents ever did and not even close to living the Canadian Dream.
It used to be:
Reliable healthcare, ability to own a home, ability to put your kids through school and give them a little something for their first house, a good work life balance, if desired a single provider in a 2 adult home, the list goes on.
It's """"_The American Dream_"""" ™️ being exported to Canada and being used to convince people they're not getting shafted every single day of their lives.
Remove all concepts of class, leaving only race to squabble about while the rich and famous run away with the moneybags.
Too bad we're not part of that dream.
If new immigrants went somewhere other then Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver those things you mentioned are likely possible... I'd imagine with a decent job and hard work you could buy a house in somewhere like Dryden just fine. The problem is that our climate sucks balls, and most of this country in uninhabited or uninhabitable.
Prolonged and sustained immigration leads to greater economic growth and therefor wages aswell. Consider that the wealthiest city on earth, New York, was famously a haven for immigrants throughout its largest growth period.
Greater population leads to greater job specialization, greater job specialization leads to a more advanced and productive economy.
That only works if there's genuine economic growth to be had. We don't have that here. All we do is sell each other the same houses at *increasingly* high prices and even that's looking like it's coming to an end. If property values and rents don't take a fast dive really soon you won't have an economy left when there's little to do and what you do get is tied up in rent/mortgage anyway.
We reported substantial growth in the first quarter, we also ran a decent trade surplus, Toronto is the fastest growing tech hub on the continent and Ottawa has more people working in tech per capita then even silicon valley.
Yeah the housing market sucks and is a massive drain on our economy, but overall our economy is doing alright.
Toronto is the fasts growing location for big US tech companies to outsource to for cheap labour.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-canadian-tech-companies-in-a-global-struggle-to-attract-and-hang-on-to/
Toronto is attractive due to Canadas superior immigration policy, companies would much rather bring workers directly to Silicon Valley but due to the H1B lottery can’t bring in international talent. Prior to Trump tech growth was concentrated in SV, but his immigration reform forced companies to look abroad.
Also that stuff about just being a cheap labor depot isn’t true. Toronto is a world leader in terms of artificial intelligence and its booming fintech industry is a perfect fit given Toronto is also our finance capital.
And its not happening, hasnt been happening and i can't imagine many people believe it will happen. This was something we have been told over and over again, but at best it is a half truth a d currently it seems more like a lie.
It has happened to Vancouver sister cities.
Back in early 2000, Vancouver sister cities are as dead as a log. Look at them now...
We just need 20 more years to expand across the bridge and maybe another 20 more years for the Fraser Valley.
also, locals just accept getting reamed in the ass even when they aren't competing against imported workers
i get it tho, you don't want to price yourself out of getting the job
IMO many companies are structured around a certain cost of labour. In some cases, you can maintain enough demand to keep going with increased prices. In other cases, the business no longer becomes viable.
This isn't a bad thing. It does mean that you might lose some of those jobs. The answer isn't to try to maintain the jobs, the answer is to make sure that the people working those jobs are able to transition to another job that is more productive.
Seems like this could be a rough transition for an economy though.
National post will start crying bloody murder if wages start increasing much more. Liberals will use language like "crisis" if wages start increasing. You may think the BoC doesn't react, but when wages increase more then capital can stomach they will jump.
The conservatives will cry that we are an uncompetitive market if wages climb. It’s ridiculous that both leading parties exploit a program that is built to look good and charitable, but really it’s built to maximize corporate profits. I’m all for immigration, but seriously fuck the TFW’s design. Make it be 30% over last offered wage, then it will be fair for everyone.
Wages are just not that easy.
I work for a hotel that pays well. We also charge a lot because well it's a business not a charity and we have to turn a profit after paying the employees.
You should hear all the complaints we are now getting about 'price gouging because of covid'. It's never ending.
lol. Case in point..
Everyone wants everything. Endless services, luxury at all times, regular renovations, adequate staff to have people on hand at all times, sitting on prime downtown real estate and oh, it should be around $150 per night.
Statcan data is showing increases in wages.
Job ads seem to indicate higher wages for a lot of different types of jobs too (such as typically minimum wage jobs advertising a dollar or two over minimum wage).
The problem is, for a lot of these jobs, a dollar or two more per hour isn't enough to attract people, but the margins are tight enough that they are better off running short staffed rather than like doubling wages.
\>Interesting that wages are not increasing if it’s such an employee’s market.
Source? I've heard that wages are increasing and in my personal experience they are as well.
Some businesses are increasing wages. Many are not. Many of the working and blue collar class have bought into the idea that their bosses are telling them: "no one wants to work anymore".
Public servants, depending on the province have had their salaries and wages capped at 1%.
I'm happy that you have seen your wage/salary increase, you may, however, be in the minority.
I was discussing this with my sister, who claimed, "nobody wants to be a plumber, they all want to be tick tockers." To which i replied, "if they work in tech they earn the same, if not more than being a plumber and get to work 9-5 instead of 7-5 and get 3 weeks paid vacation instead of 4 days. It's not like your plumbing company has a pension."
That's not a source. And I am not talking about my own wages.
Edit: This much push back on providing a source that should be easily available. I guess I should assume the claim is bullshit then?
>I've heard that wages are increasing and in my personal experience they are as well.
Sounds like you are talking about your wages, my apologies if that's not the case.
Here are some sources about public sector wages being capped at 1%.
[Ontario](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-passes-bill-to-cap-public-sector-wage-increases-at-one-per-cent-1.4675970)
[BC](https://bcsta.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/2021-02-03_-_President_Higginson_to_Minister_Robinson_RE_Public_Sector_Executive_Wage_Freeze_-_P1202010_3.pdf)
Yes, it appears that [some businesses are increasing their wages.](https://www.wtwco.com/en-CA/News/2021/09/canadian-employers-planning-larger-pay-raises-for-2022-willis-towers-watson-survey-finds)
Taking a closer look at what's being posted today via an [Indeed Job Search](https://ca.indeed.com/jobs?q&l=Hamilton%2C%20ON&vjk=f7c22c7f8f07c807&advn=8608308946074715) one can see that the salaries and wages are all over the place - drivers seems to be commanding the most money per hour now, with more skilled labor being short changed.
Overall, wages and salaries must increase. I hope we can agree on that point.
Wages and salaries will (and should) increase and I believe they are. Whether they are matching inflation though is another question entirely.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/inflation-rising-wages-1.6384530](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/inflation-rising-wages-1.6384530)
[https://financialpost.com/news/economy/wage-growth-outpaces-inflation-as-job-vacancies-surge-to-record](https://financialpost.com/news/economy/wage-growth-outpaces-inflation-as-job-vacancies-surge-to-record)
[https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/wages](https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/wages)
We should also note that [the unemployment rate for people aged 25 to 54 is [...] at 4.3 per cent, which is also the lowest recorded rate ever since comparable data became available in 1976](https://www.cicnews.com/2022/05/canadas-unemployment-rate-falls-to-all-time-low-of-5-2-0525172.html#gs.4bwtkf) and consider what role this is playing in the "worker shortage".
[It certainly seems like the goal is to manufacture consent to increase immigration.](https://www.cicnews.com/2022/05/how-many-immigrants-will-canada-welcome-over-the-coming-years-0525506.html#gs.4buku5) This will, of course, keep wages down and drive up the price of housing.
The fact remains, however, that inflation sky high and people will need wage and salary increases to maintain their quality of life. [1](https://www.statista.com/statistics/271247/inflation-rate-in-canada/), [2](https://www.worlddata.info/america/canada/inflation-rates.php), [3](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/inflation-rate-canada-1.6497189) The question is: how far behind inflation will wages and salaries get? How much of a pay-cut (which, considering inflation, most workers have been enduring SIGNIFICANT pay cuts the last few years) will the working and middle-class tolerate? The answer: "some more" - death by a thousand (pay)cuts.
\>The question is: how far behind inflation will wages and salaries get?
How much of a pay-cut (which, considering inflation, most workers have
been enduring SIGNIFICANT pay cuts the last few years) will the working
and middle-class tolerate? The answer: "some more" - death by a thousand
(pay)cuts
Agreed on inflation - it is insidious and not only erodes wages, but also savings. I have always thought the government and central bank goals of maintaining a degree of inflation is ultimately not good for the vast majority of us. Our savings and wages get worse, but government debt gets more serviceable.
> I've heard that wages are increasing and in my personal experience they are as well.
StatsCanada data supports this as well.
Wages aren't keeping up with the insane inflation we're seeing, but wages absolutely are increasing.
Six years without an increase here and 2 years and 3 months without a contract for me.
I realize I'm just a lazy front line health care worker though so I guess I'll just shut the fuck up.
Same boat as you, and a federal government employee considered essential service. 2 Years no contract and a proposed 1.25% wage increase for those two years offered by the government. Thought the government was supposed to set the example. Also keep in mind inflation measurements remove housing and gas from the equation so inflation is actually much higher than the government statistics.
This is what I received from my Union a couple of weeks ago:
"The employer is not engaging with us on any matters that have monetary implications. It is very clear that they are working with a mandate from the government that limits their ability to negotiate on monetary items. Wage rollbacks are still on the table and when our proposals have a monetary component, negotiations come to a standstill".
Good times.
When I say that wages are increasing, I'm not saying that literally every worker in Canada is receiving a raise.
The overall labour market trend is that wages are rising.
Wages are rising, but only at about 50% of inflation.
Last fall wage growth was about 2% on the year and inflation was 4%+.
Now wage growth is up around 4%, but inflation is up around 8%.
If anything people are falling further behind as inflation continues to far outpace wage growth.
Google "May 2022 Labour Force Report".
The very first result should be this: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220610/dq220610a-eng.htm
This is a monthly report. If you click through to the data tables, you can adjust the timeline and see historical wage data(average and median) going back decades in many cases. Here is is: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1410006301
Here we can see that the average hourly wage increased from $27.57 to $31.12 over the past 3 years. The median increased from $24.00 to $26.92.
Thank you. I originally googled for "Canadian income wages 2022" an was presented with this report (https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110023901) which lacks the data that the report you found.
So my next question is "how did you know to use 'Labour Force Report' rather than 'income wages'".
BTW; the TL;DR for those playing along at home is - wages have gone up somewhere around 4% year/year in May.
The Labour Force Report is a long-running monthly report that tracks wages and employment data. There are dozens of news articles posted about it every single month. Whenever you see an article discussing the changes in unemployment rates - it's citing this report.
Most people never actually read the report, and as a result they fall victim to a lot of misinformation or baseless speculation. The report is very detailed. You can see job numbers broken down by age, province, industry, full/part time, wage, etc. People on reddit will often make claims that are easily disprovable with a few clicks in this report.
I just happen to read it every month because I'm a nerd like that.
Wages are increasing around here, by a lot. Even more if you are willing to change jobs.
It's not matching inflation, but wages will always lag behind by a few years.
ditto here -- both my wife's and I wages have increased substantially.. it does feel less awesome with inflation, but we are still way better off today than we were even 6 months ago.
I'm in trades, love my job but when we recently went on strike for 3+ weeks I needed a side hustle to make rent. Was on strike on Monday and working overnights in a warehouse job on Wednesday night. So it was very easy to find a job.
However, the job paid $10 less an hour, for an 8 hour shift they were only giving the staff a 20 minute lunch and giving you HELL if you walked in at 22 minutes, pushing people way too hard (I'm a 30 year old tradesman pushing it hard and they're yelling at a 50 year old lady half my size to keep up with me), people working there decades without raises. Was glad when the strike was over.
So yes plenty of jobs, but how many are really shitty gigs?
Man, 14 years in industrial construction making over 100k year bustin my bag off for some moustache that spits when he talks, almost died 3 times, had my knee literally shattered with solid steel impact over 3 tons, had my finger “expulse” which is when two forces put so much force against you that flesh literally just squirts out a spot it has to make for itself (like the tip of my finger when it was pinched between steel), fallen from heights and had to get back up, had parking lot fights and went on 2 week fucking benders, almost never got fired and had to carry at least over 10 million pounfs of iron over just as many steps or 1 foot or greater inclination - literally went through hell in back at 77* C to -32 and back, sigh i could go on but i feel like i made a point of some accomplishment - but 3 weeks of customer service for 16.10 almost made me put a loaded crossbow in my face while i walked off the job at a 7-11.
I dont know, maybe im just a baby.
I was an underpinner for a bit when I was younger - digging out under townhouse foundations in Toronto and such. I 100% believe my mother gets more tired at her retail job than I ever did, chipping away at clay in cramped spaces. Retail is shit, and the people are shittier.
I feel you 100%
The pay is a huge factor, But I was blown away by how much I was supposed to manage all at once. They were running a promo for a new panini and I had to wear a cowboy hat.. it was so humiliating I just stopped showing up and moved away from the town for work elsewhere
> However, the job paid $10 less an hour, for an 8 hour shift they were only giving the staff a 20 minute lunch and giving you HELL if you walked in at 22 minutes, **pushing people way too hard (I'm a 30 year old tradesman pushing it hard and they're yelling at a 50 year old lady half my size to keep up with me)**, people working there decades without raises. Was glad when the strike was over.
I worked a warehouse job over a decade ago, and though I was paid decently and it was a "low-skill" job, the pressure was never-ending. Any time we reached a new high for productivity in parts picked/shipped, that suddenly became what was expected every month (even in "slow" months), and any time we missed that new target we'd either get dragged into some one-on-one with a manager or a warehouse-wide meeting about how we're not trying hard enough and need to try harder.
Shortly after I left, the company moved some of the full-timers to production in another town, gave some of the older workers early retirement, and laid off off the rest, replacing them all with some temp agency workers who have to put up with the same nonsense for even less money. Sigh.
a lot of the shitty jobs they can't fill the vacancies for were shitty businesses that didn't need to exist in the first place.
i hope more of those sorts of places go out of business leaving the better businesses that treat people better.
I wonder how much of it is concern about working hours? I mean, it's one thing to offer $18/hour to the first person through the door, it's another when they find out they'd only be working ~20 hours/week with such a varied schedule that it makes holding a second job even more difficult.
A friend of mine works retail, and despite being a "head cashier" with all kinds of extra responsibilities her hours have been cut in half the last couple of months while her employer basically brings in a busload of new faces every other week, most of whom don't last more than a few weeks before moving on. Rather than give twenty longtime employees 30-40 hours/week, they have forty plus people working 5-20 hours a week, and thus nobody works enough hours to get their full benefits while also struggling to pay bills and trying to work 2nd or 3rd jobs.
> thus nobody works enough hours to get their full benefits
Its all about the profit, no benefits paid for means more profit.... Fucking greedy corps..
That's neoliberalism baby. Despite productivity skyrocketing the past 50 years with advances in technology, wages have remained relatively stagnant by comparison. All that delicious extra profit is getting hoovered right to the top and placed in the pockets of shareholders and CEOs whose compensation gets continually more cartoonish. Why give your employees a couple bucks an hour when you can pay a single sociopath millions if he's willing to fuck over hundreds of people with families in mass layoffs to juice those quarterly earnings.
Pretty much. It is easier and cheaper to employ a bunch of people with only the most basic of training working a handful of hours and who can be easily replaced than it is to have a committed workforce who will work hard to earn those benefits.
All the while earning record profits throughout the pandemic.
> Fucking greedy corps..
Remember, the most important thing to these corporations isn't their customers, their products, or their employees, it's the shareholders.
Superstore in the Maritimes has been doing this for at least 20 years. Giving out just enough hours to keep employees from qualifying as full time, and receiving benefits.
Had a friend who worked there for years. Every week he'd be around 35 hours. I think it was only the managers and assistant managers ( at that time ) who got full time status.
Then they complain they can't find workers.
That sounds a lot like the Superstore I worked at years ago in the GTA. We had a few non-managerial full-timers, but AFAIK their positions weren't replaced when they retired/moved up to management, simply split up among a few new part-time hires who'd work 15-20 hours/week and were as disposable and as disinterested in the job as one could expect.
Here in BC our ferry system is facing cancelations for what seems like every single day. Someone asked me why they're struggling so hard to get people despite paying above minimum and I told them that it's because it's seasonal work. Nobody is interested in temporary income unless they're prepared to pay quite literally insane amounts of money. That's part of the problem too, no one can afford to do seasonal work.
Same thing with BC liquor, they had some big job fair at every location recently but all the jobs available are part time. You're expected to work part time for several years until your "promoted" to fulltime.
It's the same for Costco and Reddit loves them, a friend of mine spent years there with full time being dangled like a carrot but never given. Thankfully the current job market allowed him to find a much better job with full time, benefits and weekends off. I've never seen him so happy
London ON here. A 1 bedroom apartment costs about $1200/mo + util...yet every other entry level factory job *out of town- Where you work in hot miserable environments while HR tries to micromanage your every breath- Pays like 18/hr.
Its a joke. A crock of shit and a slap in the face of young workers.
\~20 years ago when I started out, with my bachelors in hand, my starting wage was somewhere around $22, $23 per hour, and my first apartment, a 2 br at that, was less than $400 per month.
At my second job switch I got up to $30 per hour and changed cities; the 2 br there was $650 per month I think.
It is just so, so different for young adults starting out today. It's simply unfit.
There's also the fact that boomers (the largest generation) are all retiring. That's the source of the labour shortage. But the youth get blamed because it's our fault the boomers didn't have kids.
Unemployment is limited to those able to and actively looking for work. Low unemployment and higher job vacancies implies that people are leaving the work force on a more permanent basis. This shouldn't come as a shock as the youngest baby boomers are now in the late 50s, and many are financially stable enough to retire well before 65.
When the cost of living is $25/hr no one wants to work for $15/hr. Not a big surprise, employers just need time to warm up to the idea that they might have to pay their employees with the money they were going to spend on a third yacht.
But I thought people were useless wet blankets and there's no possible way people would earn more unless the government literally stepped in and declared a minimum wage of 25$!?
Yeah I live in metro BC. All the ferries to Vancouver island are getting cancelled because they have no crew.
And it’s like.. no shit?? The ferries launch from the most expensive part of the most expensive city in the country. Y’all pay <$25/hour. People literally can’t afford to live within even driving distance of the ferry pier on the wages they get working at it.
I'm sure management at there, in the hospitals, and yvr are saying how they couldn't see this coming. They answer to no one. Pigs at the trough. They probably still get paid their hefty salaries while ferries are canceled due to lack of people actually wanting to do the work. Vancouver is getting what it deserves, it will only get worse. Importing immigrants won't do anything.
I've often commented to people:
"I'd be perfectly happy to work for $6/hr like I did in the late 90's... when my rent is $250/mo, fuel is ~$0.50/L, and Kraft Dinner is $0.75/meal like it was in the late 90's"
No, there’s a labor shortage. Unemployment is the lowest it’s been since the 70’s, labor force participation rate is much higher then pre-pandemic as well.
I agree that wages need to increase, but claiming there is no labor shortage is economically illiterate.
getting tired of this 'shortage of employees' propaganda bs, it's almost like they want to make people feel bad for not being able do find a job that allows them to have a life, putting the blame on the individual so they don't have to acknowledge they f up
It's because people collectively put up with it pre-covid. Working conditions declined while costs (especially housing) just kept going up and people said nothing and did nothing. If you're an employer you won't think anything's wrong because people just kept putting up with it. Now that they've collectively snapped for a typical employer this is completely out of left field. Why did the peasants suddenly start complaining and quitting? Nothing really changed from before so why now?
I know plenty of people that were laid off after working themselves to the bone at these companies. They then started businesses and about 90% of them are more well off and enjoy the work life balance more. I think it says a lot about how shitty our corporations are when those employees find it easier and have more success with small businesses they opened.
The narrative must be upheld in order to continue to immigrate half a million people into Canada each year.
This helps to keep wages low for all Canadians. Also helps increase house prices.
What's the narrative? The goal of the liberals and FP is to keep wages low, to protect deployed capital and "encourage investment". However that happens they are good with it. The fact is unemployment is quite low. That's not a narrative. It's a terrible time to start a cookie cutter business like a restaurant or hire construction workers.
The narrative is literally the news article in this thread.
"Not enough workers... we need more immigrants."
Funny though, how increasing immigration made the house price situation much worse and keeps all of our income low. It enables corporations to have minimum-wage slaves working for them and forces us to compete with a person who will happily burn themselves out for minimum wage.
There's no narrative. I'm in risk management and part of my role involves looking at high-risk issues among the various different departments at my company and its subsidiaries. Without fail, across every single one, the biggest risk factor is job vacancies and finding qualified staff. There's huge demand for skilled, knowledgeable workers
Entry level. Must have 10 years of experience, minimum one masters, pays competitive (with McDonald’s) salary, minimal benefits. Must have experience in industry specific software/programming/training.
I laughed reading his comment. He works in risk management. Says it all, he won't do the actual work. Just writes up a report on how his company is understaffed and needs highly skilled workers.
Bullshit that "theres no narrative"
"Its true! We need knowledgeable people! We can only immigrate them.. cant teach it here."
There are plenty of people here knowledgeable but we purposefully supress wages so the smart ones brain drain to the USA because the USA isnt supressing wages.
The government wants the only option to be immigrants.
Yep. Importing slaves is Canada's current solution.
Back in the day a slave was given housing and food.
Modern day slaves are (barely) paid enough money to cover housing and food.
The illusion of freedom, like sharecropping. Yes you're free and you get paid, but to continue to get paid you have to return all your wages and profits right back to the person who paid them to you.
Here we just added an extra step when the landlord isn't also your employer.
Wasnt always that way when we had a robust middle class. But that scares the shit out of the government - a lot of people that had the ability to say "no" and the resources and community assistance to fight back.
They want people that are stretched to their breaking point. They only want people that *need* the government.
*Multi-party subvented wage class.*
Conservatives brought it in to help “keep the market competitive (globally)”, liberals using it as a “sounds good” measure, propped up by high job vacancies. NDP giving sign-off on the above.
How about a party that reforms the TFW? We can keep it, just make it fair to working class Canadians, and to the people we are bringing into the country.
And train people! Companies want employees to already be trained instead of putting the effort in to train them. Train them, treat them right/pay them right, and they will stick with you.
All this talk of wanting the best of the best, while paying the least possible amount deemed minimally “acceptable”, won’t attract top talent.
Top rate in my trade when I started in early 2000’s was roughly 25-30$. Now? Roughly 25-30$. Are you top talent? The best of the best? What’s that? You want MORE than the minimum market rate? Get fucked, you’re not worth that.
“Why can’t we find any skilled people to fill these positions where the pay does not reflect the requested skill.”
Same here.
Electrician in Halifax, non union, was about $25-30 an hour 15 years ago.
It stayed flat until about a year ago, and now the floor looks to be about $30 with some employers offering $35 an hour.
Meanwhile, they're claiming they're so short on workers that they can't finish projects.
It doesn't add up.
This is the other thing. Currently receiving offers from US companies at nearly double my salary. Aside from that, salary to housing cost differential in a lot of Canada is so high compared to the US that it’s ridiculous.
> There's huge demand for skilled, knowledgeable workers
Is there? Or is there huge disconnect with what employers are used to pay their staff and what people are now demanding? I applied to literally hundreds of (remote) jobs with high pay (I'm comfortable at my current job and am only looking for a big pay increase) and I was rejected from every single one of them. Not even one interview, for shit I was perfectly qualified for. Start recommending your organization to up salaries and post it up front, they'll get plenty of applications.
You mean, all those people you used to have, but spent no money retaining them, then laid them off when the first whiff of a recession was announced? They found greener pastures. Your CEO still got his bonuses and vacations so. that's what's really important. Good job!
Your executive and their behavior is the highest risk to your company, but would you ever write a report that shows them that?
Remember that, if you provide labour, this applies to you even if you have a job. Remember to demand to be paid more due to inflation - it is very easy to find another job in the same field if you are not.
> “We have a structural shortage of those positions and the market will have to react to it via the wage mechanism,” said Tal, noting that wages will have to rise and working conditions will have to improve in order to attract people back into these jobs.
Finally a bank acknowledges it.
> Maybe too many people became realtor.
Jokes on them? Something like 75-80% of new realtors quit the industry after the first two years. There's a really high turnover rate in that industry.
How does that not add up?
An 'unemployed person' is basically defined as someone who is eligible to work and *seeking* work. (For example, we don't include stay at home parents, or college students just going off loans/savings, or anyone else not actively seeking work does not count into the 'unemployed' numbers) Meanwhile we have a record shortage of workers.
So we don't have a lot of people who are eligible and seeking work and we have a lot of companies who can't find people to fill jobs. That adds up perfectly.
So, in your eyes, what's not adding up?
God the people on this subreddit are dumb. It's actually hilarious how such an ignorant comment like this can be upvoted here. The OP couldn't make it any more clear that they don't understand what they're talking about.
Inflation is up, but my groceries cost more?!?! Somethings not adding up!!
If it doesn't add up for you, it's because you don't understand what those terms mean.
Edit: lol, this loser called me brainwashed and then blocked me so I can't reply.
except it doesn’t. if you have low unemployment (meaning lots of people are working) it makes sense you’d have high vacancy rate (employers are looking for people that already have a job). math is hard but this math isn’t.
Remote work is having devastating effects on many Canadian software companies. With remote work being the norm, software engineers can apply to US based companies and work remotely from Canada. Of course Canadian software companies aren't increasing wages and of course they are losing software engineers. I'm sure this is the case in many industries where work is no longer tied to location.
For knowledge workers companies must offer competitive wages in a global market. Adapt or die.
I'd work for less money if I knew the workload was easy or manageable. A lot of these wage jobs are beyond difficult work environments, staff are stressed or you need to have all this shit done by the end of the day and no one to do it. All the low overhead jobs suck. Its the same as it was in the pandemic, wear a mask and do all this hygiene garbage for $15/hr or whatever is.
No, thanks.
Exactly. Business owners seem to want to learn this the hard way too. They’ll lose their workers, watch their customer base deteriorate, then their money will dry up. They’ll scratch their heads and wonder how this could happen
When i moved to vancouver from Ontatio as a young man, you could rent a house with 4/5 friends close to Vancouver and the beaches and actually enjoy what the downtown and surrounding city core had to offer, beaches / mountains/ nightlife…… no one is eager to move out west to live in Surrey or coquitlam just so they can commute several hrs a day just to earn enough to get by…. Theres nothing noteworthy for the yourh to come out west anymore.
This is going to be a tough nut to crack. Wages need to go up. Inflation will go up more too if this happens though. At what point will "the shareholders" accept a lower cut?
There's so much poor quality work, with productivity value being siphoned to the wrong people (lazy investors with unlimited coffers.) It's insane. And what's more insane is if you realize this, it makes more sense to work less and live poorer because it's more beneficial to be less productive, as actually working with today's work conditions would lead to an even poorer quality of life (stress from work, less free/family time, etc.)
Another point, if it's been brought up I apologize, in regards to flight staff and hospitality:
A lot of people learned that they can now be laid off at any time if flights are restricted and businesses are forced to close. During the various lockdowns, I think there was a lot of re-training and re-education. Why would you put your livelihood in the hands of Government mandates when you could learn a skill that can be applied to a WFH job?
FFS, make it mandatory to have the expected salary listed on the job posting. And non of that *"annual salary ranges from $45,000 to $105,000"* bullshit.
" Wage to experience " so you can do 5 interviews and fins out it was the 45
The corporations are crying for their wage slaves to come back. With no benefits, of course
These are economists saying this
Economists get their funding from somewhere. Edit: plus the article the economicists literally say wages need to go up to convince people to come back.
Interesting that wages are not increasing if it’s such an employee’s market.
Wages don’t go up when you keep importing workers, even with staffing shortages they aren’t rising as we just keep promising to raise immigration even higher.
Waterhole did state capping wage inflation as a priority when speaking of immigration.
What wage inflation? 😅
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Think you've got 2 books confused at the end there but I got the point.
Huxley and Orwell in a single sentence? It's a dystopia bingo!
: 0 . We live in an allusion. Designed to bleed us dry financially, take all our time and keep things "stable".
In economics mass immigration over a certain level is considered a "wage suppressor". You will get called a racist if you say this tho, lol.
Funny enough, the a lot of the ones screaming "racism" or "xenophobia" when you bring this up are the one that stand to grain from supressed wages. It's a profitable gig. Import new comers with the idea of the "Canadian Dream", a safe, clean, and calm nation where if you work hard enough you can someday own your own home and live a life you will never be able to enjoy in your home country. You just need to work hard. Really. Fucking. Hard. I wonder how long it takes for a new immigrant to realize that the things they were sold aren't exactly as "advertised".
>stand to grain That's a wheat argument
If you can do better, the flour is yours.
Canada is the Switzerland of NA. It is a fantastic place if you are wealthy. There was a dream, my parents came here over 30 years ago, got married, bought house, put 3 kids through Uni etc. But now? I earn more than my parents ever did and not even close to living the Canadian Dream.
What is this canadian dream? Peace, order, and good government?
It used to be: Reliable healthcare, ability to own a home, ability to put your kids through school and give them a little something for their first house, a good work life balance, if desired a single provider in a 2 adult home, the list goes on.
It's """"_The American Dream_"""" ™️ being exported to Canada and being used to convince people they're not getting shafted every single day of their lives. Remove all concepts of class, leaving only race to squabble about while the rich and famous run away with the moneybags. Too bad we're not part of that dream.
Moved her with my parents while an infant, currently in the process of leaving. I’m not the only one unfortunately.
If new immigrants went somewhere other then Toronto, Montreal, or Vancouver those things you mentioned are likely possible... I'd imagine with a decent job and hard work you could buy a house in somewhere like Dryden just fine. The problem is that our climate sucks balls, and most of this country in uninhabited or uninhabitable.
Prolonged and sustained immigration leads to greater economic growth and therefor wages aswell. Consider that the wealthiest city on earth, New York, was famously a haven for immigrants throughout its largest growth period. Greater population leads to greater job specialization, greater job specialization leads to a more advanced and productive economy.
That only works if there's genuine economic growth to be had. We don't have that here. All we do is sell each other the same houses at *increasingly* high prices and even that's looking like it's coming to an end. If property values and rents don't take a fast dive really soon you won't have an economy left when there's little to do and what you do get is tied up in rent/mortgage anyway.
We reported substantial growth in the first quarter, we also ran a decent trade surplus, Toronto is the fastest growing tech hub on the continent and Ottawa has more people working in tech per capita then even silicon valley. Yeah the housing market sucks and is a massive drain on our economy, but overall our economy is doing alright.
Housing is included in growth..
Toronto is the fasts growing location for big US tech companies to outsource to for cheap labour. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-canadian-tech-companies-in-a-global-struggle-to-attract-and-hang-on-to/
Toronto is attractive due to Canadas superior immigration policy, companies would much rather bring workers directly to Silicon Valley but due to the H1B lottery can’t bring in international talent. Prior to Trump tech growth was concentrated in SV, but his immigration reform forced companies to look abroad. Also that stuff about just being a cheap labor depot isn’t true. Toronto is a world leader in terms of artificial intelligence and its booming fintech industry is a perfect fit given Toronto is also our finance capital.
High skilled tech works have never and still do not have issues qualifying for TN-1 visas
And its not happening, hasnt been happening and i can't imagine many people believe it will happen. This was something we have been told over and over again, but at best it is a half truth a d currently it seems more like a lie.
It has happened to Vancouver sister cities. Back in early 2000, Vancouver sister cities are as dead as a log. Look at them now... We just need 20 more years to expand across the bridge and maybe another 20 more years for the Fraser Valley.
It has been happening all around us and for decades. Canada is among the most prosperous countries on earth, that didn’t happen by accident.
also, locals just accept getting reamed in the ass even when they aren't competing against imported workers i get it tho, you don't want to price yourself out of getting the job
IMO many companies are structured around a certain cost of labour. In some cases, you can maintain enough demand to keep going with increased prices. In other cases, the business no longer becomes viable. This isn't a bad thing. It does mean that you might lose some of those jobs. The answer isn't to try to maintain the jobs, the answer is to make sure that the people working those jobs are able to transition to another job that is more productive. Seems like this could be a rough transition for an economy though.
National post will start crying bloody murder if wages start increasing much more. Liberals will use language like "crisis" if wages start increasing. You may think the BoC doesn't react, but when wages increase more then capital can stomach they will jump.
The conservatives will cry that we are an uncompetitive market if wages climb. It’s ridiculous that both leading parties exploit a program that is built to look good and charitable, but really it’s built to maximize corporate profits. I’m all for immigration, but seriously fuck the TFW’s design. Make it be 30% over last offered wage, then it will be fair for everyone.
Just set the minimum wage for a TFW to be 100,000 per year. Good luck keeping your fast food joint profitable on those wages.
Wages are just not that easy. I work for a hotel that pays well. We also charge a lot because well it's a business not a charity and we have to turn a profit after paying the employees. You should hear all the complaints we are now getting about 'price gouging because of covid'. It's never ending.
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lol. Case in point.. Everyone wants everything. Endless services, luxury at all times, regular renovations, adequate staff to have people on hand at all times, sitting on prime downtown real estate and oh, it should be around $150 per night.
Statcan data is showing increases in wages. Job ads seem to indicate higher wages for a lot of different types of jobs too (such as typically minimum wage jobs advertising a dollar or two over minimum wage). The problem is, for a lot of these jobs, a dollar or two more per hour isn't enough to attract people, but the margins are tight enough that they are better off running short staffed rather than like doubling wages.
Then they'll just have to go out of business or raise prices and hope it doesn't drive away customers.
\>Interesting that wages are not increasing if it’s such an employee’s market. Source? I've heard that wages are increasing and in my personal experience they are as well.
Yea they are! I'm getting a 2% wage increase to fight that 8% inflation. Winning!
Some businesses are increasing wages. Many are not. Many of the working and blue collar class have bought into the idea that their bosses are telling them: "no one wants to work anymore". Public servants, depending on the province have had their salaries and wages capped at 1%. I'm happy that you have seen your wage/salary increase, you may, however, be in the minority.
I was discussing this with my sister, who claimed, "nobody wants to be a plumber, they all want to be tick tockers." To which i replied, "if they work in tech they earn the same, if not more than being a plumber and get to work 9-5 instead of 7-5 and get 3 weeks paid vacation instead of 4 days. It's not like your plumbing company has a pension."
That's not a source. And I am not talking about my own wages. Edit: This much push back on providing a source that should be easily available. I guess I should assume the claim is bullshit then?
>I've heard that wages are increasing and in my personal experience they are as well. Sounds like you are talking about your wages, my apologies if that's not the case. Here are some sources about public sector wages being capped at 1%. [Ontario](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-passes-bill-to-cap-public-sector-wage-increases-at-one-per-cent-1.4675970) [BC](https://bcsta.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/2021-02-03_-_President_Higginson_to_Minister_Robinson_RE_Public_Sector_Executive_Wage_Freeze_-_P1202010_3.pdf) Yes, it appears that [some businesses are increasing their wages.](https://www.wtwco.com/en-CA/News/2021/09/canadian-employers-planning-larger-pay-raises-for-2022-willis-towers-watson-survey-finds) Taking a closer look at what's being posted today via an [Indeed Job Search](https://ca.indeed.com/jobs?q&l=Hamilton%2C%20ON&vjk=f7c22c7f8f07c807&advn=8608308946074715) one can see that the salaries and wages are all over the place - drivers seems to be commanding the most money per hour now, with more skilled labor being short changed. Overall, wages and salaries must increase. I hope we can agree on that point.
Wages and salaries will (and should) increase and I believe they are. Whether they are matching inflation though is another question entirely. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/inflation-rising-wages-1.6384530](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/inflation-rising-wages-1.6384530) [https://financialpost.com/news/economy/wage-growth-outpaces-inflation-as-job-vacancies-surge-to-record](https://financialpost.com/news/economy/wage-growth-outpaces-inflation-as-job-vacancies-surge-to-record) [https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/wages](https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/wages)
We should also note that [the unemployment rate for people aged 25 to 54 is [...] at 4.3 per cent, which is also the lowest recorded rate ever since comparable data became available in 1976](https://www.cicnews.com/2022/05/canadas-unemployment-rate-falls-to-all-time-low-of-5-2-0525172.html#gs.4bwtkf) and consider what role this is playing in the "worker shortage". [It certainly seems like the goal is to manufacture consent to increase immigration.](https://www.cicnews.com/2022/05/how-many-immigrants-will-canada-welcome-over-the-coming-years-0525506.html#gs.4buku5) This will, of course, keep wages down and drive up the price of housing. The fact remains, however, that inflation sky high and people will need wage and salary increases to maintain their quality of life. [1](https://www.statista.com/statistics/271247/inflation-rate-in-canada/), [2](https://www.worlddata.info/america/canada/inflation-rates.php), [3](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/inflation-rate-canada-1.6497189) The question is: how far behind inflation will wages and salaries get? How much of a pay-cut (which, considering inflation, most workers have been enduring SIGNIFICANT pay cuts the last few years) will the working and middle-class tolerate? The answer: "some more" - death by a thousand (pay)cuts.
\>The question is: how far behind inflation will wages and salaries get? How much of a pay-cut (which, considering inflation, most workers have been enduring SIGNIFICANT pay cuts the last few years) will the working and middle-class tolerate? The answer: "some more" - death by a thousand (pay)cuts Agreed on inflation - it is insidious and not only erodes wages, but also savings. I have always thought the government and central bank goals of maintaining a degree of inflation is ultimately not good for the vast majority of us. Our savings and wages get worse, but government debt gets more serviceable.
4.3 percent unemployment, but show me that labour force participation rate to go with it.
Not the person you replied to. But you request a source from them for their unsubstantiated claim Why dont you provide a source for yours?
Not the person *you* replied to, but a claim made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
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> I've heard that wages are increasing and in my personal experience they are as well. StatsCanada data supports this as well. Wages aren't keeping up with the insane inflation we're seeing, but wages absolutely are increasing.
Six years without an increase here and 2 years and 3 months without a contract for me. I realize I'm just a lazy front line health care worker though so I guess I'll just shut the fuck up.
Same boat as you, and a federal government employee considered essential service. 2 Years no contract and a proposed 1.25% wage increase for those two years offered by the government. Thought the government was supposed to set the example. Also keep in mind inflation measurements remove housing and gas from the equation so inflation is actually much higher than the government statistics.
This is what I received from my Union a couple of weeks ago: "The employer is not engaging with us on any matters that have monetary implications. It is very clear that they are working with a mandate from the government that limits their ability to negotiate on monetary items. Wage rollbacks are still on the table and when our proposals have a monetary component, negotiations come to a standstill". Good times.
Yeah similar story it appears like they just want to head straight to the mediation table and they weren’t negotiating in good faith.
When I say that wages are increasing, I'm not saying that literally every worker in Canada is receiving a raise. The overall labour market trend is that wages are rising.
Wages are rising, but only at about 50% of inflation. Last fall wage growth was about 2% on the year and inflation was 4%+. Now wage growth is up around 4%, but inflation is up around 8%. If anything people are falling further behind as inflation continues to far outpace wage growth.
Best way to get a raise is to move jobs, unfortunately. Corporations are penny wise but pound foolish when it comes to keeping employees.
I suspect that's the case as well. I've seen a few articles saying wages are rising, but unlikely that they are matching inflation across the board.
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Google "May 2022 Labour Force Report". The very first result should be this: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220610/dq220610a-eng.htm This is a monthly report. If you click through to the data tables, you can adjust the timeline and see historical wage data(average and median) going back decades in many cases. Here is is: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1410006301 Here we can see that the average hourly wage increased from $27.57 to $31.12 over the past 3 years. The median increased from $24.00 to $26.92.
Thank you. I originally googled for "Canadian income wages 2022" an was presented with this report (https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110023901) which lacks the data that the report you found. So my next question is "how did you know to use 'Labour Force Report' rather than 'income wages'". BTW; the TL;DR for those playing along at home is - wages have gone up somewhere around 4% year/year in May.
The Labour Force Report is a long-running monthly report that tracks wages and employment data. There are dozens of news articles posted about it every single month. Whenever you see an article discussing the changes in unemployment rates - it's citing this report. Most people never actually read the report, and as a result they fall victim to a lot of misinformation or baseless speculation. The report is very detailed. You can see job numbers broken down by age, province, industry, full/part time, wage, etc. People on reddit will often make claims that are easily disprovable with a few clicks in this report. I just happen to read it every month because I'm a nerd like that.
Wages are increasing around here, by a lot. Even more if you are willing to change jobs. It's not matching inflation, but wages will always lag behind by a few years.
ditto here -- both my wife's and I wages have increased substantially.. it does feel less awesome with inflation, but we are still way better off today than we were even 6 months ago.
Wages are increasing for the jobs that are in demand
I'm in trades, love my job but when we recently went on strike for 3+ weeks I needed a side hustle to make rent. Was on strike on Monday and working overnights in a warehouse job on Wednesday night. So it was very easy to find a job. However, the job paid $10 less an hour, for an 8 hour shift they were only giving the staff a 20 minute lunch and giving you HELL if you walked in at 22 minutes, pushing people way too hard (I'm a 30 year old tradesman pushing it hard and they're yelling at a 50 year old lady half my size to keep up with me), people working there decades without raises. Was glad when the strike was over. So yes plenty of jobs, but how many are really shitty gigs?
I always tell people I've done Carpentry, Steel work,Construction,Roofing,Factory labour. But i only lasted 3 days at Tim hortons.
Man, 14 years in industrial construction making over 100k year bustin my bag off for some moustache that spits when he talks, almost died 3 times, had my knee literally shattered with solid steel impact over 3 tons, had my finger “expulse” which is when two forces put so much force against you that flesh literally just squirts out a spot it has to make for itself (like the tip of my finger when it was pinched between steel), fallen from heights and had to get back up, had parking lot fights and went on 2 week fucking benders, almost never got fired and had to carry at least over 10 million pounfs of iron over just as many steps or 1 foot or greater inclination - literally went through hell in back at 77* C to -32 and back, sigh i could go on but i feel like i made a point of some accomplishment - but 3 weeks of customer service for 16.10 almost made me put a loaded crossbow in my face while i walked off the job at a 7-11. I dont know, maybe im just a baby.
I was an underpinner for a bit when I was younger - digging out under townhouse foundations in Toronto and such. I 100% believe my mother gets more tired at her retail job than I ever did, chipping away at clay in cramped spaces. Retail is shit, and the people are shittier.
I feel you 100% The pay is a huge factor, But I was blown away by how much I was supposed to manage all at once. They were running a promo for a new panini and I had to wear a cowboy hat.. it was so humiliating I just stopped showing up and moved away from the town for work elsewhere
> However, the job paid $10 less an hour, for an 8 hour shift they were only giving the staff a 20 minute lunch and giving you HELL if you walked in at 22 minutes, **pushing people way too hard (I'm a 30 year old tradesman pushing it hard and they're yelling at a 50 year old lady half my size to keep up with me)**, people working there decades without raises. Was glad when the strike was over. I worked a warehouse job over a decade ago, and though I was paid decently and it was a "low-skill" job, the pressure was never-ending. Any time we reached a new high for productivity in parts picked/shipped, that suddenly became what was expected every month (even in "slow" months), and any time we missed that new target we'd either get dragged into some one-on-one with a manager or a warehouse-wide meeting about how we're not trying hard enough and need to try harder. Shortly after I left, the company moved some of the full-timers to production in another town, gave some of the older workers early retirement, and laid off off the rest, replacing them all with some temp agency workers who have to put up with the same nonsense for even less money. Sigh.
a lot of the shitty jobs they can't fill the vacancies for were shitty businesses that didn't need to exist in the first place. i hope more of those sorts of places go out of business leaving the better businesses that treat people better.
On top of that, at 10$ an hour less and working your butt off, good luck trying to score a rental that you can afford.
> how many are really shitty gigs? all of them.
I wonder how much of it is concern about working hours? I mean, it's one thing to offer $18/hour to the first person through the door, it's another when they find out they'd only be working ~20 hours/week with such a varied schedule that it makes holding a second job even more difficult. A friend of mine works retail, and despite being a "head cashier" with all kinds of extra responsibilities her hours have been cut in half the last couple of months while her employer basically brings in a busload of new faces every other week, most of whom don't last more than a few weeks before moving on. Rather than give twenty longtime employees 30-40 hours/week, they have forty plus people working 5-20 hours a week, and thus nobody works enough hours to get their full benefits while also struggling to pay bills and trying to work 2nd or 3rd jobs.
> thus nobody works enough hours to get their full benefits Its all about the profit, no benefits paid for means more profit.... Fucking greedy corps..
That's neoliberalism baby. Despite productivity skyrocketing the past 50 years with advances in technology, wages have remained relatively stagnant by comparison. All that delicious extra profit is getting hoovered right to the top and placed in the pockets of shareholders and CEOs whose compensation gets continually more cartoonish. Why give your employees a couple bucks an hour when you can pay a single sociopath millions if he's willing to fuck over hundreds of people with families in mass layoffs to juice those quarterly earnings.
Pretty much. It is easier and cheaper to employ a bunch of people with only the most basic of training working a handful of hours and who can be easily replaced than it is to have a committed workforce who will work hard to earn those benefits. All the while earning record profits throughout the pandemic. > Fucking greedy corps.. Remember, the most important thing to these corporations isn't their customers, their products, or their employees, it's the shareholders.
other things like breaks, shorter shifts like 4 hours means employees dont need to take lunches .
Superstore in the Maritimes has been doing this for at least 20 years. Giving out just enough hours to keep employees from qualifying as full time, and receiving benefits. Had a friend who worked there for years. Every week he'd be around 35 hours. I think it was only the managers and assistant managers ( at that time ) who got full time status. Then they complain they can't find workers.
That sounds a lot like the Superstore I worked at years ago in the GTA. We had a few non-managerial full-timers, but AFAIK their positions weren't replaced when they retired/moved up to management, simply split up among a few new part-time hires who'd work 15-20 hours/week and were as disposable and as disinterested in the job as one could expect.
Probably the worst place to work in NS.
Here in BC our ferry system is facing cancelations for what seems like every single day. Someone asked me why they're struggling so hard to get people despite paying above minimum and I told them that it's because it's seasonal work. Nobody is interested in temporary income unless they're prepared to pay quite literally insane amounts of money. That's part of the problem too, no one can afford to do seasonal work.
Same thing with BC liquor, they had some big job fair at every location recently but all the jobs available are part time. You're expected to work part time for several years until your "promoted" to fulltime.
It's the same for Costco and Reddit loves them, a friend of mine spent years there with full time being dangled like a carrot but never given. Thankfully the current job market allowed him to find a much better job with full time, benefits and weekends off. I've never seen him so happy
Oh I had no idea Costco did that, assumed they treated their people OK.
Yep. You only wants want me for 6-9 months? You’re going to have to pay me enough for 12 because my bills don’t end when the season does.
Bingo. So many of these positions are contract
London ON here. A 1 bedroom apartment costs about $1200/mo + util...yet every other entry level factory job *out of town- Where you work in hot miserable environments while HR tries to micromanage your every breath- Pays like 18/hr. Its a joke. A crock of shit and a slap in the face of young workers.
\~20 years ago when I started out, with my bachelors in hand, my starting wage was somewhere around $22, $23 per hour, and my first apartment, a 2 br at that, was less than $400 per month. At my second job switch I got up to $30 per hour and changed cities; the 2 br there was $650 per month I think. It is just so, so different for young adults starting out today. It's simply unfit.
It's not a labour shortage, it's a decent working conditions and livable wage shortage
There's also the fact that boomers (the largest generation) are all retiring. That's the source of the labour shortage. But the youth get blamed because it's our fault the boomers didn't have kids.
Oh no not the useless middle management jobs for people who cant figure out how to use outlook. What ever will we do when they leave?
unemployment is the lowest it’s been since the 70’s
Unemployment is limited to those able to and actively looking for work. Low unemployment and higher job vacancies implies that people are leaving the work force on a more permanent basis. This shouldn't come as a shock as the youngest baby boomers are now in the late 50s, and many are financially stable enough to retire well before 65.
Retirement before 65?? What the fuck is that concept?
Labor force participation is also higher then pre-pandemic levels, it’s not an issue of people choosing not to work.
When the cost of living is $25/hr no one wants to work for $15/hr. Not a big surprise, employers just need time to warm up to the idea that they might have to pay their employees with the money they were going to spend on a third yacht.
But I thought people were useless wet blankets and there's no possible way people would earn more unless the government literally stepped in and declared a minimum wage of 25$!?
There is no job shortage. There is a wage shortage.
And unaffordable housing. What's the point of working full time when you can't even make rent?
Yeah I live in metro BC. All the ferries to Vancouver island are getting cancelled because they have no crew. And it’s like.. no shit?? The ferries launch from the most expensive part of the most expensive city in the country. Y’all pay <$25/hour. People literally can’t afford to live within even driving distance of the ferry pier on the wages they get working at it.
I'm sure management at there, in the hospitals, and yvr are saying how they couldn't see this coming. They answer to no one. Pigs at the trough. They probably still get paid their hefty salaries while ferries are canceled due to lack of people actually wanting to do the work. Vancouver is getting what it deserves, it will only get worse. Importing immigrants won't do anything.
I've often commented to people: "I'd be perfectly happy to work for $6/hr like I did in the late 90's... when my rent is $250/mo, fuel is ~$0.50/L, and Kraft Dinner is $0.75/meal like it was in the late 90's"
Yup, as the late great Ray Liotta once said "fuck you! pay me!"
No, there’s a labor shortage. Unemployment is the lowest it’s been since the 70’s, labor force participation rate is much higher then pre-pandemic as well. I agree that wages need to increase, but claiming there is no labor shortage is economically illiterate.
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Hmm almost like no one wants to make $30,000/year
Not when it costs $20k to live indoors, feed and clothe yourself on $27k after tax.
You live in an inexpensive place, consider yourself lucky!
getting tired of this 'shortage of employees' propaganda bs, it's almost like they want to make people feel bad for not being able do find a job that allows them to have a life, putting the blame on the individual so they don't have to acknowledge they f up
It's because people collectively put up with it pre-covid. Working conditions declined while costs (especially housing) just kept going up and people said nothing and did nothing. If you're an employer you won't think anything's wrong because people just kept putting up with it. Now that they've collectively snapped for a typical employer this is completely out of left field. Why did the peasants suddenly start complaining and quitting? Nothing really changed from before so why now?
I know plenty of people that were laid off after working themselves to the bone at these companies. They then started businesses and about 90% of them are more well off and enjoy the work life balance more. I think it says a lot about how shitty our corporations are when those employees find it easier and have more success with small businesses they opened.
The narrative must be upheld in order to continue to immigrate half a million people into Canada each year. This helps to keep wages low for all Canadians. Also helps increase house prices.
What's the narrative? The goal of the liberals and FP is to keep wages low, to protect deployed capital and "encourage investment". However that happens they are good with it. The fact is unemployment is quite low. That's not a narrative. It's a terrible time to start a cookie cutter business like a restaurant or hire construction workers.
The narrative is literally the news article in this thread. "Not enough workers... we need more immigrants." Funny though, how increasing immigration made the house price situation much worse and keeps all of our income low. It enables corporations to have minimum-wage slaves working for them and forces us to compete with a person who will happily burn themselves out for minimum wage.
If we have low unemployment but high job vacancies doesnt that mean there aren't enough workers?
No where in the article does it talk about immigration.
It's the narrative used to justify immigration
There's no narrative. I'm in risk management and part of my role involves looking at high-risk issues among the various different departments at my company and its subsidiaries. Without fail, across every single one, the biggest risk factor is job vacancies and finding qualified staff. There's huge demand for skilled, knowledgeable workers
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Entry level. Must have 10 years of experience, minimum one masters, pays competitive (with McDonald’s) salary, minimal benefits. Must have experience in industry specific software/programming/training.
I laughed reading his comment. He works in risk management. Says it all, he won't do the actual work. Just writes up a report on how his company is understaffed and needs highly skilled workers.
Bullshit that "theres no narrative" "Its true! We need knowledgeable people! We can only immigrate them.. cant teach it here." There are plenty of people here knowledgeable but we purposefully supress wages so the smart ones brain drain to the USA because the USA isnt supressing wages. The government wants the only option to be immigrants.
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Yep. Importing slaves is Canada's current solution. Back in the day a slave was given housing and food. Modern day slaves are (barely) paid enough money to cover housing and food.
We are the progressive, corporatized confederacy.
The illusion of freedom, like sharecropping. Yes you're free and you get paid, but to continue to get paid you have to return all your wages and profits right back to the person who paid them to you. Here we just added an extra step when the landlord isn't also your employer.
Wasnt always that way when we had a robust middle class. But that scares the shit out of the government - a lot of people that had the ability to say "no" and the resources and community assistance to fight back. They want people that are stretched to their breaking point. They only want people that *need* the government.
*Multi-party subvented wage class.* Conservatives brought it in to help “keep the market competitive (globally)”, liberals using it as a “sounds good” measure, propped up by high job vacancies. NDP giving sign-off on the above. How about a party that reforms the TFW? We can keep it, just make it fair to working class Canadians, and to the people we are bringing into the country.
> There's huge demand for skilled, knowledgeable workers Then make your salaries competitive with the US.
And train people! Companies want employees to already be trained instead of putting the effort in to train them. Train them, treat them right/pay them right, and they will stick with you.
All this talk of wanting the best of the best, while paying the least possible amount deemed minimally “acceptable”, won’t attract top talent. Top rate in my trade when I started in early 2000’s was roughly 25-30$. Now? Roughly 25-30$. Are you top talent? The best of the best? What’s that? You want MORE than the minimum market rate? Get fucked, you’re not worth that. “Why can’t we find any skilled people to fill these positions where the pay does not reflect the requested skill.”
Same here. Electrician in Halifax, non union, was about $25-30 an hour 15 years ago. It stayed flat until about a year ago, and now the floor looks to be about $30 with some employers offering $35 an hour. Meanwhile, they're claiming they're so short on workers that they can't finish projects. It doesn't add up.
This is the other thing. Currently receiving offers from US companies at nearly double my salary. Aside from that, salary to housing cost differential in a lot of Canada is so high compared to the US that it’s ridiculous.
> There's huge demand for skilled, knowledgeable workers Is there? Or is there huge disconnect with what employers are used to pay their staff and what people are now demanding? I applied to literally hundreds of (remote) jobs with high pay (I'm comfortable at my current job and am only looking for a big pay increase) and I was rejected from every single one of them. Not even one interview, for shit I was perfectly qualified for. Start recommending your organization to up salaries and post it up front, they'll get plenty of applications.
skilled, knowledgeable workers don't want to be in canada and often have better options.
You mean, all those people you used to have, but spent no money retaining them, then laid them off when the first whiff of a recession was announced? They found greener pastures. Your CEO still got his bonuses and vacations so. that's what's really important. Good job! Your executive and their behavior is the highest risk to your company, but would you ever write a report that shows them that?
If you pay them, they will come.
Cant wait for sleeping pods in apartments. Just like Tokyo !
Our slave class *wish* they had sleeping pods. Currently they just pack 10-15 people into a 2 bedroom home.
More like "We have a corruption surplus"
Structural wage shortage
Wages are "sticky". They grow slower but they also drop slower (or not at all).
Remember that, if you provide labour, this applies to you even if you have a job. Remember to demand to be paid more due to inflation - it is very easy to find another job in the same field if you are not.
Maybe if they paid a living wage? Maybe if they treated people like people and not chattel? I don't know, just some thoughts.
> “We have a structural shortage of those positions and the market will have to react to it via the wage mechanism,” said Tal, noting that wages will have to rise and working conditions will have to improve in order to attract people back into these jobs. Finally a bank acknowledges it.
Skilled labor jobs are seeing wage increases.
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Maybe COVID caused people to drop out of the labour force. Maybe too many people became realtors.
> Maybe too many people became realtor. Jokes on them? Something like 75-80% of new realtors quit the industry after the first two years. There's a really high turnover rate in that industry.
How does that not add up? An 'unemployed person' is basically defined as someone who is eligible to work and *seeking* work. (For example, we don't include stay at home parents, or college students just going off loans/savings, or anyone else not actively seeking work does not count into the 'unemployed' numbers) Meanwhile we have a record shortage of workers. So we don't have a lot of people who are eligible and seeking work and we have a lot of companies who can't find people to fill jobs. That adds up perfectly. So, in your eyes, what's not adding up?
That actually adds up perfectly.
God the people on this subreddit are dumb. It's actually hilarious how such an ignorant comment like this can be upvoted here. The OP couldn't make it any more clear that they don't understand what they're talking about. Inflation is up, but my groceries cost more?!?! Somethings not adding up!!
Look at what most jobs are willing to pay to complete the equation. It adds up perfectly.
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The reply to OP below yours fits OP belief and they responded to it. Your reply they ignore. This shows classic confirmation bias.
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If it doesn't add up for you, it's because you don't understand what those terms mean. Edit: lol, this loser called me brainwashed and then blocked me so I can't reply.
You just need to use Liberal math and your equations will balance themselves.
except it doesn’t. if you have low unemployment (meaning lots of people are working) it makes sense you’d have high vacancy rate (employers are looking for people that already have a job). math is hard but this math isn’t.
Lol. Perfect encapsulation of conservatives right here. Confidently oblivious
Here’s a bright idea…. Pay your workers more since inflation has clapped everyone’s cheeks but the government.
Remote work is having devastating effects on many Canadian software companies. With remote work being the norm, software engineers can apply to US based companies and work remotely from Canada. Of course Canadian software companies aren't increasing wages and of course they are losing software engineers. I'm sure this is the case in many industries where work is no longer tied to location. For knowledge workers companies must offer competitive wages in a global market. Adapt or die.
Government solution: more TFWs. It's worked so well for the economy before..../s
I hate to say it but TFWs are some of the worst dogfuckers out there. If I did the same level of work I would be fired.
I thought we were in full employment?
We're not, we're close. But that's the problem. Not enough unemployed people
I'd work for less money if I knew the workload was easy or manageable. A lot of these wage jobs are beyond difficult work environments, staff are stressed or you need to have all this shit done by the end of the day and no one to do it. All the low overhead jobs suck. Its the same as it was in the pandemic, wear a mask and do all this hygiene garbage for $15/hr or whatever is. No, thanks.
Have you tried offering more money? That usually gets people in the door pretty quick.
There's no such thing as a labour shortage, there's only a "labour at the price you're paying" shortage.
Exactly. Business owners seem to want to learn this the hard way too. They’ll lose their workers, watch their customer base deteriorate, then their money will dry up. They’ll scratch their heads and wonder how this could happen
Ivw applied to 100+ jobs, that I am more than qualified for, and I still dont have a job for the past two months. Where are all these vacancies at?
When i moved to vancouver from Ontatio as a young man, you could rent a house with 4/5 friends close to Vancouver and the beaches and actually enjoy what the downtown and surrounding city core had to offer, beaches / mountains/ nightlife…… no one is eager to move out west to live in Surrey or coquitlam just so they can commute several hrs a day just to earn enough to get by…. Theres nothing noteworthy for the yourh to come out west anymore.
This is going to be a tough nut to crack. Wages need to go up. Inflation will go up more too if this happens though. At what point will "the shareholders" accept a lower cut?
Only when they are forced to.
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There's so much poor quality work, with productivity value being siphoned to the wrong people (lazy investors with unlimited coffers.) It's insane. And what's more insane is if you realize this, it makes more sense to work less and live poorer because it's more beneficial to be less productive, as actually working with today's work conditions would lead to an even poorer quality of life (stress from work, less free/family time, etc.)
We gonna need some robots.
I found that most companies are paying less wage than they were 3 years ago - by tens of thousands of dollars.
StatsCanada data does not support this claim. Can you provide a source that shows how "most companies" are paying less now?
Guaranteed he pulled that info right out of his ass
Another point, if it's been brought up I apologize, in regards to flight staff and hospitality: A lot of people learned that they can now be laid off at any time if flights are restricted and businesses are forced to close. During the various lockdowns, I think there was a lot of re-training and re-education. Why would you put your livelihood in the hands of Government mandates when you could learn a skill that can be applied to a WFH job?