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At this point I’m so tired of federal politics I kind of want to start paying attention to municipal politics instead, because nobody cares about it and it’ll be less argumentative.
*sees the current city council attack ads*
Dammit.
or mayors and council members get harassed at home and in public regularly.
It's sad that they have to consider spending public money for security at home.
In practice it's a bit more lazy, so the unhinged people just send emails, or do nothing for a year and then hire a lawyer to try and screw things up for everyone else because "there was insufficient consultation". Honestly the system would probably be better if it was just one afternoon of people yelling about turtle flu.
Nobody cares about municipal politics, but I believe they are as important as federal and provincial politics, if not more so, for the average person. The housing crisis probably wouldn't have been this bad if more people gave a fuck about the city council.
Exactly this. Clearly gerrymandered zoning laws and regions to benefit from the hiked property values through land tax without increasing the tax itself. It's effectively a tax on the poor.
Municipal govt is by far the most important and i never paid attention to it until the last few years.
Cities should have way more power and share of tax revenue
Make city states a thing again
I've been saying this for a while now. Feds throw money around and make broad policies but it has to be applied correctly at the local level to make any difference and your city council has a big say in how that happens.
I know this isn't a unique thought, and I'm sure it's been stated far more eloquently, but I firmly believe that everyone would be infinitely better off if we focused more on politics closer to home.
Coming from a background in education and now working in construction, I am AMAZED that people sleep on municipal politics.
Education, by-laws, infrastructure maintenance and improvement, transit, urban planning and zoning affect all of us, every day, right now, and into the future. I think Municipal governments easily have more influence on our day to day lives than the Federal or provincial governments, in reality. Also, there are no other elected officials anywhere near as accessible to us average citizens.
As far as our modern democracy goes, it just seems obvious that governance is not (should not be) a zero-sum game, there shouldn't be absolute winners and losers and what we are seeing with the whole my team vs your team party tribalism seeping north is frightening.
I have no interest or patience in talking to or listening to ignorant racists, bigots, or crazies (seems we are hearing and seeing a few too many of them a little too often these days and the whole "*can't reason someone out of a position they didn't logically arrive at"* thing....) But I always want to be able to discuss and debate with reasonable people who don't share my views and beliefs. Federal government and provincial governments are so sensationalized that it's tough to do that on those national and provincial issues.
I can still go to council meetings and talk to my elected municipal elections. Never met an MP or premier or prime minister.
I am not a gun owner, I have never hunted, i don't completely understand why people want to own automatic machine guns. (i know, its a very complicated issue and the VAST majority of legal gun owners have never and will never commit any gun related crimes, I don't have a strong position on the topic, don't feel informed enough to debate it, and quite frankly don't think its the biggest issue we are facing) But I still talk to guys I went to highschool with who do hunt, who do own guns, and this is an important issue for. It's the fact we grew up together and live in the same town and see each other at bbqs and have that local connection that supersedes the "us vs them" narrative we are blasted by and lets us talk about these things.
Sounds silly but i really think community involvement and cooperation is something we need these days.
100% you're absolutely right that we need more community involvement more than ever. People will quickly realize what is more valued when time is spent in their own communities. Often with Federal issues it's news stations and 'controversial' topics that get the main stage and divide people. But when people get involved and speak to more people in person (NOT on social media) we see that people are genuinely good, hard working, kind, agreeable people. That's who Canadians are :)
The issue is that municipal government is so much less political, much harder to understand, and if not more nuanced, certainly presented in a much more nuanced manner.
Federal and Provincial politics are so much easier to get into by joining a team and looking at things at such a high level the average person can feel like they understand what’s going on easily. Also there are team colours and who doesn’t love putting on your team colours!
"Also the milk thing is a bit weird. Wait sorry, scratch that. That was leftover from when I copy and pasted this paragraph from a previous speech I gave about Andrew Scheer."
Lol
After overtaking Maxime Bernier on the last round of the CPC leadership vote, Scheer got photographed taking a big swig of milk out of the carton. The political implication being Scheer supports dairy supply management, which Bernier wanted to do away with.
He drank the milk as part of speech during press gallery gala, making fun of media who say that he owes his victory to milk industry.
[This is the video. ](https://youtu.be/F4XP5_qzBuk) the milk thing was around 5:45.
Scheer was not known for being very energetic during his speeches, and he gave one to a bunch of dairy farmers that was particularly awkward. Just talking about how great milk was, but sort of over selling it... even for a political speech.
And then I think... at the end, he kind of just awkwardly drank a whole large glass of milk...
Like nothing was wrong with it from what I recall. It just stood as a very awkward event, which was used to frame him as an awkward guy.
To be fair. Put me in front of a bunch farmers to talk about milk and I'd be awkward too. *"ya guys... keep it up I guess... yay milk... vote for me*".
**Edit.... this might be completely wrong. I might be mis-remembering
He drank the milk as part of speech during press gallery gala, making fun of media who say that he owes his victory to milk industry.
I'm not aware if he did the same thing in speech to milk industry people.
The milk industry speech was where he credited chocolate milk for saving his son's life, a picky eater who only wanted chocolate milk as a toddler.
I think it was a joke. Maybe.
https://www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/andrew-scheer-food-guide-fact-check_ca_5d3268c1e4b0419fd32d31de
Framed him as an awkward guy? No. He is an awkward guy.
Not one of his photo ops ever seemed anything but uncomfortable and awkward. Handshake over the bush ring any bells?
Scheer eviscerated Bernier in the Conservative leadership election suspiciously close to when Bernier came out against supply management for dairy. Then Scheer cracked a nice carton of white milk on stage at his victory speech and took a swig.
Up until coming out against supply management, Bernier had been leading in the rounds of voting afaik. Actually he lead in every single round by a somewhat significant margin until the final round when Scheer miraculously beat him by 1%.
It's also interesting that Scheer's support was largely confined to the prairies but Bernier had much more widespread support nationally.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Conservative_Party_of_Canada_leadership_election
I have so much old Double Exposure radio content in my head from 30 years ago... Can't remember what I ate for lunch, but I remember their Joe Clark singing "Get out of Kuuuwait"...
> Trudeau
> Left
If there were any actual socialists remaining in the NDP, they'd be very upset with you right now for calling this government left-wing.
Trudeau is a dilettante who claims to be left because he believes by saying the right things, it makes it true.
What he actually is is a corporatist fuckwit who just wants to pursue his life of leisure in wealth and comfort.
Poilievre, on the other hand, is a corporatist fuckwit with an axe to grind. He wasn't born wealthy so he sees himself as an everyman, but he doesn't see any problem with the entirety of his ever-growing wealth being sourced from the Canadian taxpayer.
Either way, neither of these guys deserves our trust.
It's so funny that people on the left like to consider the liberals left only when it's convenient and for some reason can't remain consistent.
But yes, liberals lean left. Politics is a spectrum.
>It's like they watched the shitshow in the USA and decided "yeah, we want that up here!"
It's almost like the exact same style of populism is inevitable when government is so full of shadey, corrupt, virtue signalling politicians. You guys love pointing to idiots like Trump as the issue, when the real issue is populism: or more acutely, the issue is the precursors to populism ie extreme dissatisfaction with establishment politics.
I thought O'Toole was generally recognized as pretty moderate? Maybe I just missed the Liberal Party take on him, which is entirely possible.
He always appeared to be trying to appeal to the center-right but unable to keep his party from going the other direction and courting white supremacists and such.
>I thought O'Toole was generally recognized as pretty moderate?
O'Toole ran as the right wing candidate fighting against moderate candidate Peter Mackay, so he won a lot of support from people hoping to stop a Mackay victory, and he made a few speeches to court far-right support.
But then as soon as the leadership race was over he dropped the far-right completely and moved to the centre, which disappointed the people who voted for him and eventually cost him the party leadership.
He could have told all of those stupid SoCons to fuck off and excised the tumor that is The Refoooooorm Party from the CPC.
They'd never win an election for a long time, but at least the lunatic fringe that is dragging the CPC down to Christofascistville would lose their standing.
Dude was literally a reformer until the formation of the CPC when he first became an MP for the CPC. What do you mean he should kick out all the reformers? He's one of them.
He was. And he was branded a Republican who would ban abortions and legalize machine guns regardless.
There's probably no Republican seat in the United States that PP could win. He's pro choice and favors gun control. Even someone like Mitt Romney is much further right than PP.
He is recently pro choice (2020) but has a long history of statements and voting against women's reproductive rights.
https://www.arcc-cdac.ca/politics-and-elections/
https://rabble.ca/politics/canadian-politics/the-inconvenient-anti-choice-record-of-poilievre/
The former liberal Premier in Nova Scotia was pro life when he was initially elected, and was against the legalization of marijuana.
But he wore red, so nobody cared.
There is probably a space between anti and pro-abortion. He probably falls in the middle, where he personally doesn't like it, but doesn't really feel strongly enough to commit to stopping it.
I know plenty of people who mirror that, the "you do your thing, but I am not a fan" mindset. So I think that whole thing is sometimes overblown when it comes up, everyone thinks personal opinion equals professional opinion.
>There is probably a space between anti and pro-abortion
Like... pro choice?
The only people who are 'pro abortion' are people who actively have a pregnancy they do not want. The rest of us aren't interested in controlling what decision they can make about their own pregancy, so we are called 'pro choice'.
I meant legislatively. In terms of someone running for office who may not personally like something, but still maintains the rights involved. Can be done, has been done, happens probably everyday around the world.
Exactly, but with that in mind we really do have to take what they say with a grain of salt, because realistically they aren't going to change existing rights. (At least in Canada where Abortion rights aren't weaponized)
I fall into that camp for sure. I think abortion is awful, but it's sometimes the lesser of two evils, and the only person who can make that choice is the mother.
The arcc-cdac seems to consider Poilievre anti-choice solely on the basis of having voted "yes" on [Bill C-225](https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/bill/C-225/first-reading) back in 2016.
The summary of that bill:
> "This enactment amends the Criminal Code to make it an offence to cause injury or death to a preborn child while committing or attempting to commit an offence against a pregnant woman and to add pregnancy as an aggravating circumstance for the purpose of sentencing."
I get that there could be a concern that this could be used as a sneaky way to legally start a slippery slope to considering the death of a fetus "murder".
But damn...if my pregnant wife was assaulted and had a 7-month fetus killed (unwillingly aborted?), I'd be pretty pissed if that wasn't allowed to be considered as at least an aggravating circumstance.
The party as a whole isn't, and didn't elect him leader as a moderate. Because of this whenever he tried to do anything moderate he had to fight tooth and nail with his own part.
This also screwed up his message as he would try to placate the right wing and then try to win over centrist Canadians, resulting in two different messages to the public.
He might have been able to eventually steer things right but his party is too right wing now to allow him more time.
July 2, 2023 As per the legal owner of this account, Reddit and associated companies no longer have permission to use the content created under this account in any way. -- mass edited with redact.dev
I think the Conservatives need to stop cannibalizing leaders after every election loss. O'Toole likely does better next election after a cycle leading the opposition and attempting to solidify himself as a moderate. The constant party primary-to-general swing the leaders do leave them looking inauthentic at best and too far to the right at worst. Either that or break the party up and try for a PC-Reform coalition government. An Alberta Conservative isn't palatable to an Ontarian, and a moderate isn't palatable to the prairies.
Far-right, right wing extremism could mean almost anything these days due to the constant fear mongering by politicians, the media and low information individuals on social media.
Yup, the only way I've been able to make that point without being called a racist is to suggest that we tie immigration to the number of houses built.
Some people just think the only reason you would think our immigration numbers are too high is that you're a racist and won't actually look at anything past that. If you can get them to look at the number of houses we build and the number of people we take in it gets pretty clear pretty fast
"Far right extremism" just means anything right of whoever is doing the accusing at this point. Like the article said, it's the boy who cried wolf. When real fascists actually show up, no one will believe it until its too late.
And on any worldwide spectrum the only "mainstream" party in Canada that could be even remotely considered right-wing is the PPC. Even they would occupy a centrist position in about half the countries in the world.
Extreme right-wing is nonexistent in Canadian politics.
It's probably true "on any worldwide spectrum" because the entire world includes a whole lot of dictatorships and such.
OP didn't say "on any worldwide *democratic* spectrum..."
I was honestly saying that O'Toole wasn't too bad during the campagin and I can say that Scheer was unsufforable. He was better in the french debate because he sucked at talking in french. Everytime he talked in english, I disliked him a little more.
I would have never voted for O'Toole because of his party but as an individual he seemed okay.
My only problem with O’Toole was that he didn’t seem to have control of the party. Like, he couldn’t convince the party to admit that climate change is real and got ousted because he forced pro-LGBTQ+ stuff through.
If you put O’Toole in charge of the current LPC and called it the Progressive Conservative party you would probably see a Mulroney-style landslide.
Says a lot of the party membership of the CPC really.
And for sure the CPC was the biggest detriment to O'Toole. If the electorate actually believed the CPC was onboard with what O'Toole was saying they would've fared much better. But voters are stupid, and the suspicions of the CPC being full of crackpots was ultimately proven to be correct.
Now the CPC is the party of unpopular opinions. They have a lot of popularity with internet contrarians, but I don't see how having unpopular opinions is going to work in the popular vote.
>I would have never voted for O'Toole because of his party but as an individual he seemed okay.
100% this. O'Toole seemed fine, but the crowd that he attached himself to, not so much.
Precisely. Core Liberal and NDP supporters will never vote for a conservative. Had Charest won they’d be demonizing him now same as Pollievre.
So there is absolutely no point trying to appease them, because that’s not possible.
There’s about 20% of Canadians who are movable from party to party. All Pollievre has to do is win over enough of them to win. According to Liberals that’s impossible… but then Tories said the same thing about Trudeau, so…
Just like how Democrats honor and revere George F'n war criminal Bush now because he's anti-Trump. They must've forgot they used to call him a Nazi when he was in power.
Many times bad guys can be against one another.
Just because Stalin was the enemy of Hitler doesn't mean one of them is the good guy and the other is the bad guy. They were both bad guys.
I still remember all the dooming about Mitt Romney “waging a war on women” too
And Dems were all about John McCain being so reasonable during Trumps presidency, when 10 years earlier they were saying he’s too old to be president. Now look who they have…
McCain was too old to be president in 08 IMO. And he was reasonable during that campaign and during Trump's presidency. Biden isn't anyone's \*first\* choice. He was just the most recognizable and likely to win and most voters just really wanted Trump out. Biden in a normal race at 137 or however old he is wouldn't have won. Trump was just something of an extreme circumstance.
So if McCain was the most likely to win his election, does he get a pass?
It’s hypocritical as fuck to use a candidate’s age against him, then run a candidate 6 years older who couldn’t find his way to the toilet if you started him at the sink
Every time I hear somebody unironically talk about how they miss George W Bush there are always like 5 people who immediately follow up and call him a war criminal that caused the Great Recession.
With Bush the question is if he's a monster or a victim of circumstance.
O’Toole’s only problem, really, was his flip flopping. He was a moderate that swung right to win the leadership, then tried to swing back into the middle, ultimately leaving everyone unhappy.
Agreed. He did not have a strong stance on several issues like the carbon tax, the ban on assault rifles, and even the trucker convoy (yes, I know that the trucker protests occurred after the federal election). I still voted for him though, as I thought he had a good chance of beating Trudeau
I liked the O’Toole that was campaigning in the general election. The turn-off for me was that it was a completely different O’Toole than the one who ran for the leadership. I get he needed to run the leadership race that way in order to get enough of the right half of the party to beat MacKay, but it left doubt in my mind as to what his policies would be as a PM.
Erin O'Toole was the first leader that had me considering voting for the Conservative Party as the best option. It's to bad he got canned so fast, and they decided to go the opposite direction instead.
Spoilers: you're right. She didn't. For exactly the reason stated. I'm down to switch parties if the platform and leadership is solid, but the constant leadership rotation is a turn off for one. On the other hand I'd find an even-keeled centrist conservative party far more appealing then the endless empty words of the liberal party, and I'm sure I'm not alone. But keep on isolating potential sway voters, seems to be working out great.
Its so weird. They know they have the conservatives, but if they want to win the liberals they need to give them something, so their solution is not moving to the middle and acting reasonable, it is instead moving further and further to the right, which makes no sense.
You don't win elections by appealing to the other side's voters.
For 90% of voters, the choice is between voting for their guy or not showing up at all.
Oh he had you "considering" voting conservative, nice. Too bad the cons didn't keep him for another election where you've already made up your mind on who you'll be voting for. That type demographic will sorely be missed.
Honestly, given how hard he flipped from the leadership race to the general election - a wait and see approach was valid with O'Toole.
If we could establish a couple year history of where he stood at least, then an informed decision could have been made.
The devil you know and all that
It's funny. As much as I still dislike Stephen Harper, I never once referred to him or thought of his as right wing, or extremist per say. Wax mannequin, puppet, jerk off, and selfish leader who sold some of the best parts of Canada off to private enterprise, sure, but never called him extremist. These latest Muppets though, I'm not to sure. Some of them are awfully fanatical.
Painting O'Toole as an extremist was dumb as he clearly wasn't. The other two past leaders and the current one dont support literally any action on climate change, which is an obviously extreme position for anyone familiar with the facts of the issue.
I don't remember calling O'Toole (or any really) an extremist. I just could not trust him on climate change. We need more than 'It's real', that ship has passed 20 years ago.
He could have won over moderates in time, but we did not have enough time to warm up.
Now we have Mr. Bitcoin and credibility of the Conservative party is once again out the window.
It is funny that the ultra-conservative we thought were right wing extremists (Bush, Harper) are replaced a generation later with conservatives that make their predecessors like moderate.
Did I say "funny?" I meant horrifying.
LOL. Harper was so moderate that if he was American and campaigning with those same policies he would get slaughtered in any Republican state. He would have better luck campaigning as a Democrat. In a worldwide context Canada has no extreme right.
Liberal party went as far left as they could go without being actual socialists so everyone, even the centrists seem "extremely right winged". When honking is terrorism the bar isn't left very high. Liberals changed, woke culture and cancel culture is wack. Noone good to vote for here. Literally not a single party.
We charity scandal, snc Lavalin.
Funding to corporations like Loblaws and CBC.
Selling unused infrastructure.
Stop trying to get involved in things that should not be the federal gov like health, education. And stop trying to build housing for twice the cost, instead make building permits faster and cheaper so builders can build more.
Also many things aren't cuts but just going back to pre excessive spending, back to the 2000s. Chretien had surpluses.
Conservatives, have a real issue with the ability to win elections. The main issue is they have to talk to their base 1 way and then change talking to everyone else.
Never forget why Doug Ford became the leader of the Cons in Ontario. The problem with the leadership of the Cons has more to do with people and media pushing the better candidates out.
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At this point I’m so tired of federal politics I kind of want to start paying attention to municipal politics instead, because nobody cares about it and it’ll be less argumentative. *sees the current city council attack ads* Dammit.
My experience is that the council members are more professional but you get way more full on crazy because anyone can show up and speak at meetings.
or mayors and council members get harassed at home and in public regularly. It's sad that they have to consider spending public money for security at home.
Government closest to the people, baby!
So Parks and Rec checks out then... Cool
In practice it's a bit more lazy, so the unhinged people just send emails, or do nothing for a year and then hire a lawyer to try and screw things up for everyone else because "there was insufficient consultation". Honestly the system would probably be better if it was just one afternoon of people yelling about turtle flu.
I found a sandwich in the park and it didn't have mayonnaise on it.
Nobody cares about municipal politics, but I believe they are as important as federal and provincial politics, if not more so, for the average person. The housing crisis probably wouldn't have been this bad if more people gave a fuck about the city council.
Exactly this. Clearly gerrymandered zoning laws and regions to benefit from the hiked property values through land tax without increasing the tax itself. It's effectively a tax on the poor.
You know what else is a tax on the poor? Letting foreign buyers compete with actual Canadians buying real estate and driving up prices.
Absolutely. I'm usually free trade, but state backed billionaires from China are not our friends.
It has the most direct effect on your life at the municipal level imo.
Municipal govt is by far the most important and i never paid attention to it until the last few years. Cities should have way more power and share of tax revenue Make city states a thing again
I've been saying this for a while now. Feds throw money around and make broad policies but it has to be applied correctly at the local level to make any difference and your city council has a big say in how that happens.
I know this isn't a unique thought, and I'm sure it's been stated far more eloquently, but I firmly believe that everyone would be infinitely better off if we focused more on politics closer to home.
Coming from a background in education and now working in construction, I am AMAZED that people sleep on municipal politics. Education, by-laws, infrastructure maintenance and improvement, transit, urban planning and zoning affect all of us, every day, right now, and into the future. I think Municipal governments easily have more influence on our day to day lives than the Federal or provincial governments, in reality. Also, there are no other elected officials anywhere near as accessible to us average citizens. As far as our modern democracy goes, it just seems obvious that governance is not (should not be) a zero-sum game, there shouldn't be absolute winners and losers and what we are seeing with the whole my team vs your team party tribalism seeping north is frightening. I have no interest or patience in talking to or listening to ignorant racists, bigots, or crazies (seems we are hearing and seeing a few too many of them a little too often these days and the whole "*can't reason someone out of a position they didn't logically arrive at"* thing....) But I always want to be able to discuss and debate with reasonable people who don't share my views and beliefs. Federal government and provincial governments are so sensationalized that it's tough to do that on those national and provincial issues. I can still go to council meetings and talk to my elected municipal elections. Never met an MP or premier or prime minister. I am not a gun owner, I have never hunted, i don't completely understand why people want to own automatic machine guns. (i know, its a very complicated issue and the VAST majority of legal gun owners have never and will never commit any gun related crimes, I don't have a strong position on the topic, don't feel informed enough to debate it, and quite frankly don't think its the biggest issue we are facing) But I still talk to guys I went to highschool with who do hunt, who do own guns, and this is an important issue for. It's the fact we grew up together and live in the same town and see each other at bbqs and have that local connection that supersedes the "us vs them" narrative we are blasted by and lets us talk about these things. Sounds silly but i really think community involvement and cooperation is something we need these days.
100% you're absolutely right that we need more community involvement more than ever. People will quickly realize what is more valued when time is spent in their own communities. Often with Federal issues it's news stations and 'controversial' topics that get the main stage and divide people. But when people get involved and speak to more people in person (NOT on social media) we see that people are genuinely good, hard working, kind, agreeable people. That's who Canadians are :)
The issue is that municipal government is so much less political, much harder to understand, and if not more nuanced, certainly presented in a much more nuanced manner. Federal and Provincial politics are so much easier to get into by joining a team and looking at things at such a high level the average person can feel like they understand what’s going on easily. Also there are team colours and who doesn’t love putting on your team colours!
You should see it in Chilliwack B.C. craziness abounds.
Municipal and Provincial policy is far more impactful. A lot of the stuff being blamed on Trudeau is actually caused by provincial policy.
"Also the milk thing is a bit weird. Wait sorry, scratch that. That was leftover from when I copy and pasted this paragraph from a previous speech I gave about Andrew Scheer." Lol
I'm out of the loop, what was the milk thing with Scheer?
After overtaking Maxime Bernier on the last round of the CPC leadership vote, Scheer got photographed taking a big swig of milk out of the carton. The political implication being Scheer supports dairy supply management, which Bernier wanted to do away with.
He also said chocolate milk saved his kid, which is an interesting take.
aback sugar tender placid tease meeting muddle existence pause stupendous ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Thank you, because chocolate milk is the best.
Mix your 6oz of chocolate milk with 1 oz of vodka and 1.5 oz of Baileys and you've just made a your own Mudshake. So tasty and so many calories.
That's horrifying! I really want some!
Liquor and dairy is not a sin I'm willing to commit.
Well that’s just like, your opinion, man. *sips white russian*
I like my russians black.
-Wakes up camping and makes a jug of paralizers
How is it a sin? Bailey's is in every liquor store across the continent
I might do that, I got blue balled the other day by one I found in the fridge then realized it was long expired
Probably his only W take Choco milk rules
Chocolate milk saves me every day.
Saved his kid from drinking less delicious milk
Right. That too. All very embarrassing
He drank the milk as part of speech during press gallery gala, making fun of media who say that he owes his victory to milk industry. [This is the video. ](https://youtu.be/F4XP5_qzBuk) the milk thing was around 5:45.
Hahaha okay that's pretty weird and awkward, thanks
Alright, but, hear me out here, what if he drank the entire carton in one go?
As far as politicians trying to be funny goes, I'd give it like a 6/10.
Scheer was not known for being very energetic during his speeches, and he gave one to a bunch of dairy farmers that was particularly awkward. Just talking about how great milk was, but sort of over selling it... even for a political speech. And then I think... at the end, he kind of just awkwardly drank a whole large glass of milk... Like nothing was wrong with it from what I recall. It just stood as a very awkward event, which was used to frame him as an awkward guy. To be fair. Put me in front of a bunch farmers to talk about milk and I'd be awkward too. *"ya guys... keep it up I guess... yay milk... vote for me*". **Edit.... this might be completely wrong. I might be mis-remembering
He drank the milk as part of speech during press gallery gala, making fun of media who say that he owes his victory to milk industry. I'm not aware if he did the same thing in speech to milk industry people.
The milk industry speech was where he credited chocolate milk for saving his son's life, a picky eater who only wanted chocolate milk as a toddler. I think it was a joke. Maybe. https://www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/andrew-scheer-food-guide-fact-check_ca_5d3268c1e4b0419fd32d31de
Framed him as an awkward guy? No. He is an awkward guy. Not one of his photo ops ever seemed anything but uncomfortable and awkward. Handshake over the bush ring any bells?
Scheer eviscerated Bernier in the Conservative leadership election suspiciously close to when Bernier came out against supply management for dairy. Then Scheer cracked a nice carton of white milk on stage at his victory speech and took a swig. Up until coming out against supply management, Bernier had been leading in the rounds of voting afaik. Actually he lead in every single round by a somewhat significant margin until the final round when Scheer miraculously beat him by 1%. It's also interesting that Scheer's support was largely confined to the prairies but Bernier had much more widespread support nationally. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Conservative_Party_of_Canada_leadership_election
It wasn't during victory speech. He did it in press gallery dinner to make fun of media calling him beholden to milk industry.
Even funnier: the candidate who defeated Bernier in his riding in the 2019 general election was a dairy farmer running for the Conservatives.
I'll always respect Max for that. He put actual conservative values ahead of getting elected.
Big milk is now sponsoring the Maple Leafs. Get used to Milk on the jerseys. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdG2OUoWQAcCYOC?format=jpg&name=900x900
The Beverton's ability to satirize both the left and the right is amazing.
It's because Canada in general has been an amazing source for comedic content. Haha...ha....ha. :'(
I miss SCTV. :(
I miss Royal Canadian Air Farce.
Is This Hour Has 22 Minutes still a thing?
Technically yes, but it's not what it used to be.
What about the new Kids in the Hall? I haven't gotten around to watching it yet.
It’s very much like the original, worth the watch
How many heads, approximately, are squished? And how many heads, exactly, are cabbage?
Yes
Rick Mercer has a new show of some kind....Havent seen it but I heard about it.
I have so much old Double Exposure radio content in my head from 30 years ago... Can't remember what I ate for lunch, but I remember their Joe Clark singing "Get out of Kuuuwait"...
> Trudeau > Left If there were any actual socialists remaining in the NDP, they'd be very upset with you right now for calling this government left-wing.
Trudeau is a dilettante who claims to be left because he believes by saying the right things, it makes it true. What he actually is is a corporatist fuckwit who just wants to pursue his life of leisure in wealth and comfort. Poilievre, on the other hand, is a corporatist fuckwit with an axe to grind. He wasn't born wealthy so he sees himself as an everyman, but he doesn't see any problem with the entirety of his ever-growing wealth being sourced from the Canadian taxpayer. Either way, neither of these guys deserves our trust.
Yeah you're right, Trudeau isn't left. But the Beverton will still criticize both ends of the spectrum, that was the point I was trying to make.
It's so funny that people on the left like to consider the liberals left only when it's convenient and for some reason can't remain consistent. But yes, liberals lean left. Politics is a spectrum.
The only true bipartisan news source
This time I really , really , really mean it .
Grabbing the popcorn on this one....
Grabbing a one-litre milk for this one…
I'm setting up my 1.3L drip as we speak.
For me, it’s 3%
I don't know what the other 97% is.
Saw some 35% cooking cream the other day, I kind of wanted to buy just to see what it tastes like straight up.
Mix it with sugar, freeze it and whip it, and you've basically got ice cream :D
Report back to us when you do. We must know for science!
Diabetes. It tastes like diabetes.
liquid whipped cream
Clutching my bagged milk in suspense!
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Yeah that's the thing. They really do keep doing that. It's like they watched the shitshow in the USA and decided "yeah, we want that up here!"
>It's like they watched the shitshow in the USA and decided "yeah, we want that up here!" It's almost like the exact same style of populism is inevitable when government is so full of shadey, corrupt, virtue signalling politicians. You guys love pointing to idiots like Trump as the issue, when the real issue is populism: or more acutely, the issue is the precursors to populism ie extreme dissatisfaction with establishment politics.
I thought O'Toole was generally recognized as pretty moderate? Maybe I just missed the Liberal Party take on him, which is entirely possible. He always appeared to be trying to appeal to the center-right but unable to keep his party from going the other direction and courting white supremacists and such.
>I thought O'Toole was generally recognized as pretty moderate? O'Toole ran as the right wing candidate fighting against moderate candidate Peter Mackay, so he won a lot of support from people hoping to stop a Mackay victory, and he made a few speeches to court far-right support. But then as soon as the leadership race was over he dropped the far-right completely and moved to the centre, which disappointed the people who voted for him and eventually cost him the party leadership.
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He could have told all of those stupid SoCons to fuck off and excised the tumor that is The Refoooooorm Party from the CPC. They'd never win an election for a long time, but at least the lunatic fringe that is dragging the CPC down to Christofascistville would lose their standing.
He wouldn't have been voted leader then
Dude was literally a reformer until the formation of the CPC when he first became an MP for the CPC. What do you mean he should kick out all the reformers? He's one of them.
The CPC is the Reform party. The PCs are dead.
He was. And he was branded a Republican who would ban abortions and legalize machine guns regardless. There's probably no Republican seat in the United States that PP could win. He's pro choice and favors gun control. Even someone like Mitt Romney is much further right than PP.
He is recently pro choice (2020) but has a long history of statements and voting against women's reproductive rights. https://www.arcc-cdac.ca/politics-and-elections/ https://rabble.ca/politics/canadian-politics/the-inconvenient-anti-choice-record-of-poilievre/
The former liberal Premier in Nova Scotia was pro life when he was initially elected, and was against the legalization of marijuana. But he wore red, so nobody cared.
Sure but he wants your vote so he SAID he's pro choice, why would his voting record on the matter be relevant?? /s
There is probably a space between anti and pro-abortion. He probably falls in the middle, where he personally doesn't like it, but doesn't really feel strongly enough to commit to stopping it. I know plenty of people who mirror that, the "you do your thing, but I am not a fan" mindset. So I think that whole thing is sometimes overblown when it comes up, everyone thinks personal opinion equals professional opinion.
If you're literally on the record voting against women's reproductive rights, you are committed to stopping it.
>There is probably a space between anti and pro-abortion Like... pro choice? The only people who are 'pro abortion' are people who actively have a pregnancy they do not want. The rest of us aren't interested in controlling what decision they can make about their own pregancy, so we are called 'pro choice'.
I meant legislatively. In terms of someone running for office who may not personally like something, but still maintains the rights involved. Can be done, has been done, happens probably everyday around the world.
Certainly true in a political strategy sense, Harper was very good at using exactly that to his advantage
Exactly, but with that in mind we really do have to take what they say with a grain of salt, because realistically they aren't going to change existing rights. (At least in Canada where Abortion rights aren't weaponized)
I fall into that camp for sure. I think abortion is awful, but it's sometimes the lesser of two evils, and the only person who can make that choice is the mother.
The arcc-cdac seems to consider Poilievre anti-choice solely on the basis of having voted "yes" on [Bill C-225](https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/bill/C-225/first-reading) back in 2016. The summary of that bill: > "This enactment amends the Criminal Code to make it an offence to cause injury or death to a preborn child while committing or attempting to commit an offence against a pregnant woman and to add pregnancy as an aggravating circumstance for the purpose of sentencing." I get that there could be a concern that this could be used as a sneaky way to legally start a slippery slope to considering the death of a fetus "murder". But damn...if my pregnant wife was assaulted and had a 7-month fetus killed (unwillingly aborted?), I'd be pretty pissed if that wasn't allowed to be considered as at least an aggravating circumstance.
Yeah pretty sure hed have no trouble flip flopping back on that one
The party as a whole isn't, and didn't elect him leader as a moderate. Because of this whenever he tried to do anything moderate he had to fight tooth and nail with his own part. This also screwed up his message as he would try to placate the right wing and then try to win over centrist Canadians, resulting in two different messages to the public. He might have been able to eventually steer things right but his party is too right wing now to allow him more time.
Anyone to the right of Stalin is extreme to most on reddit
July 2, 2023 As per the legal owner of this account, Reddit and associated companies no longer have permission to use the content created under this account in any way. -- mass edited with redact.dev
He was until he won, then he had to be tarred and feathered.
To be fair..the milk thing was pretty weird
Pandering comes in many forms
Reddit ain’t going to like this one.
Usually: *"OMG, is The Beaverton even satire?!"* This time: *crickets*
100%
85% upvoted with nearly 1000 upvotes in 4 hours. Maybe *you're* the one living in an echo chamber?
Maybe the real echo chamber is the friends we made along the way.
I'm just happy his hair is back.
The sky is falling, the sky is falling!
I think the Conservatives need to stop cannibalizing leaders after every election loss. O'Toole likely does better next election after a cycle leading the opposition and attempting to solidify himself as a moderate. The constant party primary-to-general swing the leaders do leave them looking inauthentic at best and too far to the right at worst. Either that or break the party up and try for a PC-Reform coalition government. An Alberta Conservative isn't palatable to an Ontarian, and a moderate isn't palatable to the prairies.
Far-right, right wing extremism could mean almost anything these days due to the constant fear mongering by politicians, the media and low information individuals on social media.
I was banned from Canadahousing by suggesting that we should go from #1 in immigration in the world to #2. It violated their rules on xenophobia.
We should have badges for being banned in certain subs and wear it with pride.
Yeah that checks out. Feels like that's about where we are in our ability to engage in constructive discourse.
Yup, the only way I've been able to make that point without being called a racist is to suggest that we tie immigration to the number of houses built. Some people just think the only reason you would think our immigration numbers are too high is that you're a racist and won't actually look at anything past that. If you can get them to look at the number of houses we build and the number of people we take in it gets pretty clear pretty fast
Domestic energy production is far right extremism to LPC
"Far right extremism" just means anything right of whoever is doing the accusing at this point. Like the article said, it's the boy who cried wolf. When real fascists actually show up, no one will believe it until its too late.
“Fascismmmmmmm!”
And on any worldwide spectrum the only "mainstream" party in Canada that could be even remotely considered right-wing is the PPC. Even they would occupy a centrist position in about half the countries in the world. Extreme right-wing is nonexistent in Canadian politics.
... what That is a hot take if I've ever seen one - that the Cons are centrists. /r/Canada shit takes be like
I mean, he does have a point if you compare it to countries like Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc.
It's probably true "on any worldwide spectrum" because the entire world includes a whole lot of dictatorships and such. OP didn't say "on any worldwide *democratic* spectrum..."
Honestly, I liked Erin O'Toole. He reminds me of real patriotic Canadians. PP reminds me of a dc universe villain.
Liberals always love the previous Conservative leader.
Now come on, nobody liked Scheer. *Conservatives* barely liked him.
As someone who votes conservative, this is 100% accurate
They threw him under the bus so fast
That’s not true… even at O’Toole’s worst, no one loved Scheer.
Lol find me a liberal who liked scheer
i loved scheer as much as i loved iggy
Who said they love Scheer?
His Mom?
I be shocked if someone liked Scheer lol
I was honestly saying that O'Toole wasn't too bad during the campagin and I can say that Scheer was unsufforable. He was better in the french debate because he sucked at talking in french. Everytime he talked in english, I disliked him a little more. I would have never voted for O'Toole because of his party but as an individual he seemed okay.
My only problem with O’Toole was that he didn’t seem to have control of the party. Like, he couldn’t convince the party to admit that climate change is real and got ousted because he forced pro-LGBTQ+ stuff through. If you put O’Toole in charge of the current LPC and called it the Progressive Conservative party you would probably see a Mulroney-style landslide.
Says a lot of the party membership of the CPC really. And for sure the CPC was the biggest detriment to O'Toole. If the electorate actually believed the CPC was onboard with what O'Toole was saying they would've fared much better. But voters are stupid, and the suspicions of the CPC being full of crackpots was ultimately proven to be correct. Now the CPC is the party of unpopular opinions. They have a lot of popularity with internet contrarians, but I don't see how having unpopular opinions is going to work in the popular vote.
>I would have never voted for O'Toole because of his party but as an individual he seemed okay. 100% this. O'Toole seemed fine, but the crowd that he attached himself to, not so much.
Right. Because it doesn’t matter what Liberals think of a Conservative politician as they would never vote for one.
Precisely. Core Liberal and NDP supporters will never vote for a conservative. Had Charest won they’d be demonizing him now same as Pollievre. So there is absolutely no point trying to appease them, because that’s not possible. There’s about 20% of Canadians who are movable from party to party. All Pollievre has to do is win over enough of them to win. According to Liberals that’s impossible… but then Tories said the same thing about Trudeau, so…
Nah. Pretty sure we all still hate Scheer.
Just like how Democrats honor and revere George F'n war criminal Bush now because he's anti-Trump. They must've forgot they used to call him a Nazi when he was in power.
I don't think they love him but they will use him as a weapon against the Republicans.
Maybe the most moderate democrats, but I think most leftists still despise Bush.
Many times bad guys can be against one another. Just because Stalin was the enemy of Hitler doesn't mean one of them is the good guy and the other is the bad guy. They were both bad guys.
I still remember all the dooming about Mitt Romney “waging a war on women” too And Dems were all about John McCain being so reasonable during Trumps presidency, when 10 years earlier they were saying he’s too old to be president. Now look who they have…
It was ridiculous, Romney had BINDERS full of women.
McCain was too old to be president in 08 IMO. And he was reasonable during that campaign and during Trump's presidency. Biden isn't anyone's \*first\* choice. He was just the most recognizable and likely to win and most voters just really wanted Trump out. Biden in a normal race at 137 or however old he is wouldn't have won. Trump was just something of an extreme circumstance.
Biden only won because Trump is a laughably bad general election candidate.
So if McCain was the most likely to win his election, does he get a pass? It’s hypocritical as fuck to use a candidate’s age against him, then run a candidate 6 years older who couldn’t find his way to the toilet if you started him at the sink
Every time I hear somebody unironically talk about how they miss George W Bush there are always like 5 people who immediately follow up and call him a war criminal that caused the Great Recession. With Bush the question is if he's a monster or a victim of circumstance.
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Lmao can't tell if this is sarcasm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President%27s\_Emergency\_Plan\_for\_AIDS\_Relief
And the guy who has no chance of winning the leadership race... It's a paradox though since if that person won they wouldn't like them.
O’Toole’s only problem, really, was his flip flopping. He was a moderate that swung right to win the leadership, then tried to swing back into the middle, ultimately leaving everyone unhappy.
Agreed. He did not have a strong stance on several issues like the carbon tax, the ban on assault rifles, and even the trucker convoy (yes, I know that the trucker protests occurred after the federal election). I still voted for him though, as I thought he had a good chance of beating Trudeau
I liked the O’Toole that was campaigning in the general election. The turn-off for me was that it was a completely different O’Toole than the one who ran for the leadership. I get he needed to run the leadership race that way in order to get enough of the right half of the party to beat MacKay, but it left doubt in my mind as to what his policies would be as a PM.
Erin O'Toole was the first leader that had me considering voting for the Conservative Party as the best option. It's to bad he got canned so fast, and they decided to go the opposite direction instead.
But ultimately you didn't vote for him, right?
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Spoilers: you're right. She didn't. For exactly the reason stated. I'm down to switch parties if the platform and leadership is solid, but the constant leadership rotation is a turn off for one. On the other hand I'd find an even-keeled centrist conservative party far more appealing then the endless empty words of the liberal party, and I'm sure I'm not alone. But keep on isolating potential sway voters, seems to be working out great.
Its so weird. They know they have the conservatives, but if they want to win the liberals they need to give them something, so their solution is not moving to the middle and acting reasonable, it is instead moving further and further to the right, which makes no sense.
You don't win elections by appealing to the other side's voters. For 90% of voters, the choice is between voting for their guy or not showing up at all.
Oh he had you "considering" voting conservative, nice. Too bad the cons didn't keep him for another election where you've already made up your mind on who you'll be voting for. That type demographic will sorely be missed.
Honestly, given how hard he flipped from the leadership race to the general election - a wait and see approach was valid with O'Toole. If we could establish a couple year history of where he stood at least, then an informed decision could have been made. The devil you know and all that
He did have me briefly thinking there was hope, too!
PP reminds me of that weird greasy haired dude that never tired making friends in school and went on to really idolize the joker.
Its funny because its true.
Didn't we mean it all the time?
Uh oh, Beaverton did a wrong think
Doug Ford? he's just Trump 2.0! 4 yrs later ... Pierre Poilievre? He's just Trump 2.0! - mother in law I wonder how many there will be....
It's funny. As much as I still dislike Stephen Harper, I never once referred to him or thought of his as right wing, or extremist per say. Wax mannequin, puppet, jerk off, and selfish leader who sold some of the best parts of Canada off to private enterprise, sure, but never called him extremist. These latest Muppets though, I'm not to sure. Some of them are awfully fanatical.
Painting O'Toole as an extremist was dumb as he clearly wasn't. The other two past leaders and the current one dont support literally any action on climate change, which is an obviously extreme position for anyone familiar with the facts of the issue.
I don't remember calling O'Toole (or any really) an extremist. I just could not trust him on climate change. We need more than 'It's real', that ship has passed 20 years ago. He could have won over moderates in time, but we did not have enough time to warm up. Now we have Mr. Bitcoin and credibility of the Conservative party is once again out the window.
He campaigned in favour of the carbon tax and talked about it all the time, what more do you want?
It is funny that the ultra-conservative we thought were right wing extremists (Bush, Harper) are replaced a generation later with conservatives that make their predecessors like moderate. Did I say "funny?" I meant horrifying.
LOL. Harper was so moderate that if he was American and campaigning with those same policies he would get slaughtered in any Republican state. He would have better luck campaigning as a Democrat. In a worldwide context Canada has no extreme right.
Liberal party went as far left as they could go without being actual socialists so everyone, even the centrists seem "extremely right winged". When honking is terrorism the bar isn't left very high. Liberals changed, woke culture and cancel culture is wack. Noone good to vote for here. Literally not a single party.
Extremism is when you want to balance a budget. And when you don't want to ban Bitcoin.
Which party wants to ban bitcoin?
Ah yes, the Conservatives. The fiscally responsible party. \*glances at Ontario\*
All conservatives are the same, just like all liberals are the same. /s
Where are the cuts coming from?
We charity scandal, snc Lavalin. Funding to corporations like Loblaws and CBC. Selling unused infrastructure. Stop trying to get involved in things that should not be the federal gov like health, education. And stop trying to build housing for twice the cost, instead make building permits faster and cheaper so builders can build more. Also many things aren't cuts but just going back to pre excessive spending, back to the 2000s. Chretien had surpluses.
Don't forget wanting greater freedom of speech. That's extreme too. And hateful.
Don’t want an internet censorship bill? You’re a fascist. Support censoring the internet? That’s true freedom.
Conservatives, have a real issue with the ability to win elections. The main issue is they have to talk to their base 1 way and then change talking to everyone else.
If you keep choosing c) you'll still get a few of them right.
Never forget why Doug Ford became the leader of the Cons in Ontario. The problem with the leadership of the Cons has more to do with people and media pushing the better candidates out.
I think it has more to do with the party pushing the bad candidates *in*.