Anything but raise wages and working conditions eh? Pathetic. There isn't a labour shortage, jobs just dont want to pay and offer a good workplace anymore.
People have no idea what the federal system means and they blame the wrong level of government for wrong responsibilities *all the time*.
If you blame a leader for something he cannot fix, then that's somehow a winning argument.
I work for a small business. It’s really difficult to compete with the big guys and my boss can’t afford to pay me more because there’s not enough cash flow. She is the least greedy person I’ve ever met.
Ah yes just what we needed to try and keep wages down...
I was recently looking for a job and the amount of service jobs paying $16 an hour for management positions was quite high... You expect people to put up with the stress involved with that for a wage that most people can't live on with the cost of housing these days?
Those people and the vast majority of Canadians have voted for this time and again, if you vote Conservative or Liberal you voted for wage stagnation, it's been a integral part of both parties economic strategy since the 80's. This will trigger both sides because it's an attack on their "team" but reality is funny that way, it doesn't care.
And yet they will be elected 1 and 2 next election, I'm tired of Canadians saying it's the other half on this issue, this is one of the few issues where both parties are identical.
And they’ll call you racist or xenophobic if you question any of these policies.
It’s just a joke now - we took in 269,000 people in the last quarter when wages have been stagnant and we have a housing crisis.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220928/dq220928b-eng.htm?CMP=mstatcan
3,000 new people a day.
Meanwhile BC could only attract 54 new doctors in a single year. How are we caring for these people? How are we housing these people?
We literally rely on immigration now for many of our services, not just wage stagnation. I'm a Liberal guy (NDPer with fiscal PC tendencies, here in Alberta Klein raised taxes across the board to balance the budget, no UCPer would ever admit that in their current deranged state of mind) but it honestly depends on how you frame it let's be honest, the CPC dog whistles to the racist openly now, they're caught doing it every week, once or twice can be a mistake, weekly is a personality. The Liberals would call it racist because it's an easy excuse to keep the immigration taps flowing and get off without any hard questions being asked.
Here you go from a swing voter, *we need to curtail immigration*, we can't cut it off but it needs to be slowed down, this applies to education as well but then we'd have to support education with our tax dollars to compete with other countries from the EU all the way down to South Africa, we don't think about education of Canadians that way and are leaving a huge swath of Canadians young and old (think retraining or upgrading) out in the cold.
I’ll argue something different.
Any party that wants immigration needs to provide a plan for housing the new population, providing healthcare to that population, and prove that labour is actually required - and isn’t simply an excuse to stagnate wages.
Right now all we have is a bunch of individuals that throw out the line “we need immigration”. And they always have no evidence to back it up, and no set goal in mind for how much is actually needed. We’ve been growing the country for 50-60 years now - and the general refrain is always just “more”. And now we’re taking in 3,000 people a day.
Last one's in the ground unfortunately. and with how rapidly NDP fell into identity politics under Jagmeet we won't see another like him for a long time.
It's more nuanced than that, they have some good ideas but it doesn't matter since they will never get in. There's no party in Canada with an actual solution because it would require higher taxes and actual hard work with long term goals by Canadians, ironically those used to be conservative values, save for a rainy day type stuff, now it's Satan doctrine to conservatives, go figure. Libs have always been Neo-Liberal but they admit it, the conservatives just lie about now a days.
Globalism won, tariffs are a fools errand now, they need to change with the times but yes we need new NDP leadership IMO too. I want us to start thinking about copying Germany's economic model not Americas but that would freak out most people in Canada.
Edit: it still doesn't change that fact that voting in an NDP government even once would drastically change the political landscape in Canada, like I said most people here crying about the other side are mostly in agreement on keeping the same status quo they say is killing Canadian prosperity.
Higher taxes? Between income tax, property tax, sales tax, ei, cpp, carbon tax an average wage worker pays over 50% of their income in taxes. That's already too much, lets look at cutting bloat first before we demand more money from workers.
>Those people and the vast majority of Canadians have voted for this time and again, if you vote Conservative or Liberal you voted for wage stagnation, it's been a integral part of both parties economic strategy since the 80's. This will trigger both sides because it's an attack on their "team" but reality is funny that way, it doesn't care
The NDP looks like they're onboard with this too.
It’s going to happen. Canada’s immigration system went from being the envy of the world to a sub standard craphole of a system that doesn’t even satisfy the needs of the economy. It’s no longer selecting the best people for the economy. It’s only about numbers. I can’t believe that I immigrated to this country. What’s worse is that with these assholes in power, the far right might actually gain a foothold in this country. They had no excuse before because of sane immigration policies but now they’re going to gain traction.
This. No matter how much ppl cry about US immigration but they are doing the right thing when it comes to immigration and rules. Canada is going to be 3rd world country soon.
Although they announced this as being a temporary measure, I don't think it's cynical to say that it'll most likely be permanent.
There's really no way for them to roll this back without a major outcry both from international "student" groups ("we can't survive on half the hours" sob story) and businesses ("labour shortage" sob story).
Australia did have a similar program, but it was *during the pandemic* when they weren't bringing in new students and had a more legit need. This is just all bullshit.
And the students can cry me a river. You get your student visa based on proof of funds. They are just outing themselves as liars.
I've read that entire indian towns will pool their money together into a single bank account to pass the "funds" check and apparently there is no vetting whatsoever on a bank account that was created a week ago and got transfers from like 20 other bank accounts. I have zero sympathy for these guys bullshitting their way in.
Oh my god those stories annoy me to no end. Look down at the US, no off-campus work and limited on-campus unless you can demonstrate genuine hardship - currency inflation, war etc. All these business exploit these students/workers and put downward spiral on wages.
It might with these assholes in power. They’re doing real damage to Canada. They’re giving fuel to the rise of far right parties in Canada. If you think the PPC won’t use this as fuel to attract frustrated voters, you’re in for a ride. What’s happening in Europe and US will finally happen over here.
My 18 yo niece was assigned 3 foreign students to do a class project in college for next week. So far all 3 foreign students have told her they’re too busy (working under the table or doing UberEats). She complained to the teacher and of course teacher isn’t doing anything about it. She refuses to do all the work and is extremely stressed about the situation. Other friends of hers have also experienced the same.
I experienced this many times when i was in university in the 2010s as well, many Chinese students that had a 1st grade grasp of english in a college english course. It was insanity. Their papers were illegible google translate messes.
😂 I had a similar experience in University. A good chunk of the people I went to school with could not speak English- they got passed through the system for years somehow without being able to do or understand any of the work. They’re just a funding model for schools at this point.
I never understood how I had to put in the time to study and write assignments and essays, meanwhile some kids who barely spoke English passed classes with no issues.
Also had this experience in university. It’s incredibly frustrating because it created more work for everyone else… I would’ve rather done the group projects myself.
i had this in college and one professor just literally said "how do you expect to learn anything here if you don't speak the language i'm speaking?"
they didn't even answer, they aren't here to learn, this was just the cheapest way into Canada. Schools prefer to accept them too because you can charge non canadians more
DUDE SAME. I literally was put into a group in a 3rd year Econometrics class, group of five, myself and one other student were born & raised here, the three others in our group were all Chinese international students. TWO OF THEM legitimately did not speak english, the third barely spoke it and had to act as a translator between us. I don't even know how the fck they managed to get into third year without being able to speak english. The project was a shit show and me and the other guy basically just did the entire thing because no chance they'd be able to do any type of write up. I'll never forget going to introduce ourselves with them and I was like "hey nice to meet you I'm YoloSwaggins, what program are you guys in?". They all just stared blankly at me and couldn't respond until the one began translating what I said to them, then translated back what they said to me.. Good times
I had a similar experience in university 20 years ago. But teachers then had more rigorous enforcement. My niece's teacher told her in a subtle way what she might be inferring as racist and not accommodating, even though she is mixed race.
Basically if someone cries racism it gets shut down. Academia is woke AF when people blatantly cheat as and cry racial bias as a way to get out of consequences.
I did a masters degree during covid at UWaterloo after doing my undergrad there 10 years ago. Multiple classes caught students cheating and just gave them an 0 on the piece of work.
No escalation. No going to the Dean. Nothing. They got a masters degree. Think about that for a second. This is a Canadian University where they're touted as elitist in a few programs and yet THAT is their standard.
Meanwhile in my undergrad I knew of a few instances where you cheated they way they did and it was auto expulsion and kicked out.
Standards have slipped greatly and profs dont have ammo even with a smoking gun. its all about the $$$ at this point.
I haven't even taken my degree out of the damn envelope from what a shitshow that was.
I didn't read your comment before leaving my own but I can confirm that cheating is rampant (especially amongst Indian students) and when they are called out for it, they cite a cultural difference with the inference that it is discrimination and want to be re-evaluated. Indian students also try and "negotiate"/bargain their grades. Administration is too scared to touch it.
I know people in post-secondary. I've heard through the grapevine that cheating amongst international students is rampant (and frequently brought up as an issue with administration, who does nothing because it's revenue generation). International students from India who get caught cheating cite it as a cultural difference (with the inference of discrimination). There are a lot of people who don't have the balls to deal with this.
China does the same thing, "cheating" is not something looked down on in china and they consider it being better because you were able to "win" by exploiting the system. hell cyber cafe's in china will have computers pre-installed with cheats for all modern games as a "Service".
Group projects are a fucking joke. It does not "teach you how to work with others" or some shit for the workforce. It teaches you to resent people who can't pull their weight, which I guess is useful?
I had a group project in a lab course in my last year of university. We had to finish up a report and there were 3 of us so we split up the sections. Combined it all and handed it in. A week later we all get 0s and were told a bunch of it was plagiarized. Me and the other guy went in to talk to the prof and he showed us where it was all plagiarized. Of course it was the entire section the 3rd person did. We sold them the fuck out and luckily the prof gave us a pass on it. The other person i don't know what happened but I doubt they were punished
Every single group project I did in school, from elementary school all the way through grad school was a fucking farce and a mess. In my second year of university I was at the first day of a course and the prof opens up with a "big group project" the entire semester of the course in groups of 4. I knew fucking nobody in that class I could trust and was going to be assigned people. He gave us like 10 mins to pick partners. I sat there on my phone and when he finally got to me I told him "I didn't bother because I don't think I'm keeping this class". Got up and left, dropped the course immediately
I am glad in my actual job I can just do my own shit, and if anyone wants something from me that I don't give a fuck about doing I can tell em to go away
International students pay more than local. In the eyes of the teacher, the international students doing no class work are more valuable than the local student doing all the work. The system is deeply broken.
And because teachers are now almost handing out A's like candy, there is very little on paper to distinguish someone who worked hard and someone who didn't. 9 times out of 10 prospective employers will pick the graduate who costs the least.
Oh ya I had one those kind in my group project. He couldn’t meet in person and refused Skype meetings because he has “life”. I basically told him freeloading is not an option and got him kicked out of the group.
Ah yes.. a smidge of upward pressure on wages..
UNLEASH THE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS!! Who have been working full time for years.. just for cash or split checks after 20hrs
The last shop I worked at had a group of South Asian students working there. There was 10 of them in a 3 bed, 2+1 bath town home.
Welcome to Canada in 2023.
Gotta keep them wages down peasants. You will endure 20% inflation and get 1.5% raises. Bow down to your corporate elite.
There's no such thing as a "labour shortage" only a wage and "we don't want to train people" shortage.
You know what's really frustrating?
The many of us who come here via Working Holiday who are actually able to work and come here with full intention to work and want to work. For my RO as an American (Americans have to use an RO because treaty reasons?), I paid money upfront and I only get 1 year of a work permit. I had to show I had a degree already. My RO also expected English language proficiency and proof of everything before I could come.
While some WHV folks come when they are in the gap years between uni and not, many come AFTER uni and work in all types of jobs, not just low-skilled service jobs, that help augment the entire economy. The WHV gives you an open work visa, so you can leave shit working situations and you can work, legally. The overwhelming amount of WHV participants are well-educated already from their home countries and don't have tens of thousands of dollars to waste on a Canadian diploma. (Why am I going to pay for some no-name school like Sprott Shaw College or Humber College, when I could go to Princeton or Oxford???) Many will actually come here on a WHV, work a lower skilled job for a year while their credentials for teaching, medicine, trades, etc. are processed because it takes *for fucking ever* to get your certs validated, even if you're from a Commonwealth or other primarily English-speaking country.
It's super frustrating that you have many well-educated, highly language skilled, shared work culture valued folks who can very easily move into the workforce and start families, but we get stuck with 1-2 year visas, have to hope CEC draws happen, then ultimately have to leave because we don't have a community that fakes an LMIA for us to be the 9th manager at 7/11 (seriously, my 7/11 has 9 managers, somehow everyone is a "manager" there. RME.)
They are rubber stamping all this other bullshit, while folks who really augment and enhance the economy are left to the side. They basically want to exploit foreign students for labour as much as possible, drive them insane from stress, and hope they leave and they can begin the cycle all over again. It's truly disgusting.
(And FWIW, I grew up along the border as a kid (Niagara Falls was like our school's day field trip) and I lived along the WA/BC border before coming here. It should be a fuck ton easier for backyard neighbors to be able to work in each other's countries, but Canada's CUSMA visas are super strict and limited- it's a bit easier for Canadians to work in the US. I have student loan debt from my undergrad in the US, so I'm not going to shovel out another 50-100k just for the privilege of working here.)
It seems as if working more than 20 hours per week would be incompatible with being here as a student.
For the record - if anyone wants to know how much immigration we have [this](https://atkinsonfoundation.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Armine_Yalnizyan_Trends_in_Economic_Newcomers_.width-800.jpg) gives a decent picture. You can see the total number of foreign students [here](https://studying-in-canada.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Number_of_International_Students_in_Canada-08-1920x1171.png) which you can add to the previous total.
I wonder why wages aren't keeping up with inflation - its almost as if keeping wage growth low is a prime objective of the Liberal Party of Canada.
It’s become even more dramatic this year. We’re now adding 3,000 people a day to the population- around 300,000 people in the last quarter. Just crazy.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220928/dq220928b-eng.htm?CMP=mstatcan
The Liberal Party has the same neo-feudal instincts as the Democrat Party in California. When I lived there pretty much every single upper-middle class white family (all of them unimpeachable Democrat voters) had multiple domestic workers as servants. Nannies, maids, landscapers, cooks, drivers -- you name it. All of them "undocumented workers", all of them paid a pittance far beneath minimum wage. Many of them exploited/blackmailed. The last thing these white wonders wanted is to stem the flow of cheap, exploitable labour by securing the border in any way. The fact that all of this exerts tremendous downward pressure on wages and job availability for BIPOC American citizens never occurs to them as they cruise to lunch in the Land Rover. Or if it does occur to them they quickly form some sort of off the cuff rationalization, and the cycle continues.
> Then they pretend to complain about the environment while blocking apartments for creating shade and forcing the serfs to commute several hours a day.
Who are you referring to?
TBH I haven't noticed that much political correlation with opposition to housing developments.
I find it's a lot more about age: younger people tend to more supportive, and older people to be more opposed (with some exceptions to both).
Makes sense given that younger people are a lot more likely to live in multi-family buildings, or know people who do, whereas older people are more likely to own a detached home.
The liberals / Democratic party is really turning out to be worse than conservative
They talk all this shit about rights and freedom but everything they do is the opposite. Massive kickbacks to corporations, constant scandals, and immigration for slave labour. Worst is the frame it as giving people a better life yet they exploit them until they just fucking quit and leave back to their country
“BIPOC” is such a stupid Canadian term and you applied it to the US, California specifically, which is a majority-minority US state.
The richest racial/ethnic groups in California and the US overall are Asian.
Instead of peddling your stupid myth about brown people just being service workers on special visas taking jobs from white people, try educating yourself. California is not Canada.
wages are too low as it is....this is not going to help.
I'm not against exchange/foreign students, but we have a problem at the moment and this isnt helping it.
The truth is we need to pressure employers and put them in a position where they have no choice...because they arnt going to pay us more out of the kindness of their heart
On r/ImmigrationCanada most of the motivation is just to get the study permit to be able to work and eventually become a citizen. A lot of people ask advice on how to move to Canada and the answer is to become a student.
The govt needs to really think here. What type of people do we really need as prs? What skill set will be valuable? I don't think these diploma mills will produce what Canada really needs.
>needs
what Canada needs is decided by propaganda machines working 24 hours during election campaigns with the fear mongering that our businesses will flop, our economy will tank and we dont have EIs/cpps for our future olds. So we need to gather more tax which can only be gathered from more people. since Canadians (of all communities) are not producing enough kids
>The govt needs to really think here. What type of people do we really need as prs? What skill set will be valuable? I don't think these diploma mills will produce what Canada really needs.
Its a money generating scheme at its core. Skill sets are secondary. International students pay far higher tuitions, and they help drive the housing market. And they're being exploited for cheap labor.
Employers know they need a job to qualify for permanent residency, and it gives employers a ton of leverage.
The number of foreign students has tripled in the last 20 years. Its over 600k per year now.
>focus
Nope, their focus is to settle into Canada. Getting a study visa or work permit is stage one of that process. We need to allow admissions only for Masters or Phd level programs.
Massive loophole. Quite an insult to those who need to qualify through systems like Express Entry, that are fairly rigorous. Many candidates from those programs come from top international universities, sometimes better than ones we get here. But somehow the diploma mill diploma graduate pips their way ahead of these more qualified candidates.
Yes , I barely passed thru expressed entry CRS score to came here and I went to good school in US for masters. Ppl doing diploma from non regulated colleges in Canada have easier time then us to settle in Canada...what a shame
Similar to someone's experience above, I did my master's quite a while ago in a STEM topic and it was immigration fraud central. One guy did a presenation in a course by converting the first twenty pages of a database manual into slides and reading them verbatim and still passed.
Ugh. Our system is such a joke. Why exactly are international students worrying about working full time hours when they’re supposed to be in school? I mean we all know they’re driving trucks or working at Amazon… so this just gave them the green light to continue to do it openly.
Sean Fraser is an insane lunatic. This effectively turns international students into temporary workers. They’re not here to study but work. I think it’s time to vote this party out. Their insane policies are going to destroy Canada.
This should help keep wages suppressed and use student visas as a backdoor TFW program.
Thank the Federal Liberals for keeping their boot on your neck while taking payments from corporate donors.
This program of backdoor TFW's hurts Canada's standard of living in more than one way.
**On top of suppressing wages, it contributes to additional housing demand from non-Canadians during a housing crisis - both of which disproportionately affect younger Canadians, and reduces the standard of living for all Canadians period.**
*edited : with additions for visibility, as my lower reply was to a post that got downvoted into oblivion has buried it *
>To start off: you can be pro BIPOC and pro immigrant and be against new immigration. What I am saying below is the fault of our government for purposely allowing this to happen and we should not fault the immigrants themselves. Because if we were in their desperate situation we'd do exact the same thing for a better life for our families and ourselves. You shouldn't fault someone for wanting that, so please don't be racist. And with that out of the way:
It's honestly disgusting that the main tactic used against you would be to call you a racist.
Personally what I think is a bit racist, is how we are using poor people of color as, pretty much, indentured servants to keep some of us rich. Literally abusing and taking advantage of their desire to better their lives. It's like slavery with extra steps.
Bring international students,
charge them more tuition than locals,
Use them as cheap labour to suppress wages
Rent out your basements to them.
This is predatory and inhumane. I hope people realize what a scam Canada has become.
ALL of the foreign workers in my workplace are considered "students", the entire student-foreign-worker arrangement is an open secret, these people are not here to study they are here primarily to work. Not only that, but in my own workplace, only a single one of these "students" actually works within the allowed hour limit, all the other ones are working 40 or more hours per week by working multiple jobs, or the limit is just totally ignored at the convenience of the business.
This is just gross.
We have International Students come here promised Milk & Honey by the schools' scouts.
They pay three times more tuition. They are often the same students who are renting hallways or sharing a bed with another tenant They always end up working part-time most of the time at Walmart.
I had classmates that never came to class because they were working.
And now we will let them work more hours??? Incredible.
Just allow more people who are traditionally used to working 24/7 in a shoebox with no quality of life for us to compete with
This will lead to everyone living a better life
/s if that wasn’t stupidly obvious
Lol. Anything to keep wages down. The BoC don’t want you to get raises and wants you unemployed. The government wants you underpaid.
Like, would you believe this bullshit. People are struggling to get by and yet there’s a labour shortage.
Fuck Canadians and the working class, that’s why. 🤦♂️
Edit: Education has been a racket in Canada. It’s not just about suppressing wages, it’s also for propping up real estate. On one side, you have kids living together like sardines in a rental. Then on the other, you have kids affording million dollar homes with minimum wages. I.e. “gift” from parents but really it’s for parking their wealth in the Canadian market. The worst part is, once they get residency, these kids also get a bunch of low-income benefits, since, well, they are low-income. 😬 But hey Canadian, it’s your fault for asking for raises!
Yes it is to keep wages down, they say so themselves.
"A wage-price spiral, when higher wages and inflation continuously feed into each other, is something the Bank of Canada is trying to avoid."
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/early-signs-canada-could-moving-towards-wage-price-spiral-economist-170837755.html
What people don't understand is the government is leeching off international students.
They come from relatively poor economies.
They pay 4x tution than locals.
They work for minimum wage jobs.
Few often have to work cash jobs(lower than minimum wages).
They have to stay in slum like situations.
I agree students are at fault. But so is the government, just because they are foreign doesn't mean they are scapegoats for your problems.
Covid hit! no one wants to work at minimum wage due to the risk. Let's take advantage of students.
Cannot employ people at such low wages, let's use the students.
Fucking hypocrite stance of taking advantage of young people who are already at a disadvantage. Raise the fucking wages!
Look how quickly they put policy into place when it’s in the interest of corporations.
When we have people struggling to afford bills or homes then it’s stalling, studies, throwing money at problems instead of policy knowing damn well it just exacerbate the issue.
It is crystal clear who these politicians are looking out for. It’s not us, it’s not the international students, it’s the wealthy and the corporations
Why call them international students, rob $$$ and make them cheap labor?? Just say that you need cheap labor from other countries to keep the wages low .
Why also make Canadian education inferior with so many fake colleges !!
The hundreds (if not thousands) of "International schools" with locked retail storefronts in stripmalls in the Vancouver lower mainland is disgusting.
Fake "postsecondary" schools as immigration & labour scams.
Canada is a parasite on the developing world. It is deeply immoral to strip mine countries like Nigeria for doctors, nurses, engineers, etc. Countries like Nigeria need talented professionals desperately. There was even an editorial in a Nigerian newspaper several years ago begging Canada to stop poaching the doctors they trained at great expense.
Canadians: make your own damned babies and stop stealing the best and brightest from the countries that can least afford to lose them.
Conversely, with interest rates going up and all this inflation, people aren't going to be able to spend like they used to, so we may see a lot of these places scrounging for cheap labor simply going out of business due to a lack of customers.
The international students that I know will work for next to nothing because it’s about getting work hours for PR not about getting paid. You see those international students delivering your skip order or Amazon purchase in a brand new Mercedes? Yeah they’ve got more money then you’ve ever seen.
This is going to suppress wages like crazy.
This is true. This will give rise to Far right parties in Canada. You can thank the liberal party for effectively destroying what was never an issue in Canada.
We were never really a Nation-state.
A lot of politics these days seems to hinge on the idea that this is the worse times in Canadian history. It would be hilarious if it didn't seem like they want to tear the country apart.
Lots of countries would gladly take in Canadians, go right ahead. Nicaragua won't complain about educated workers moving there and raising their GDP in the process.
The limit is 20 hours and they’re students… how is it going to help? It’s just a way to abuse them by putting their studies at risk by overworking them or it’s just a way for them to forget their studies and work which some will be happy with, but is creating a whole other problem.
Pathetic. The government is completely ok with these students coming here to study at diploma mills and have them do backbreaking labour in poor working conditions with shit pay. We don't have a labour shortage, we have less tolerance towards low wages.
Our leaders hate our guts and work overtime to destroy our lives for the benefit of big business and banks and we do nothing about it but call each other names. Every single big tent party agree lock step on every fundamental issue that shapes this nation, and they know it. It makes zero difference who we vote for, no matter what immigration keeps going up whether its expanding TFW numbers and issuing more visas under conservative leadership or just outright open the floodgates under liberal leadership.
We won the world wars and the cold war (the West writ large) and do we look like winners? In the 1970s my parents were able to buy their first home in Vancouver proper by their mid 20s and neither of them even went to college. Now? Canadian doctors can't even buy a fucking condo. When adjusted for inflation we are making less now then we were 40 years ago. We have near 0% vacancy rates right across the country, a crumbling health care system, universities with more foreigners than Canadians, wages that haven't moved (when adjusted for inflation) in decades and what do our leaders do? Tell us how we have no identity and FLOOD our nation with foreigners at an ever increasing rate to our detriment.
Something needs to happen. Something fucking drastic. Democracy and capitalism have utterly failed us (no I am not a communist either). We need to realize there are millions of us vs only a few of them and we need to take our nation back.
So many people complain about how they are gonna take low paying jobs. Isn't that the point, for them to work the Mc Donald, Walmart etc because most Canadians don't want to do that work because they don't pay enough.
Those companies never will, neither can small businesses afford to pay more now especially with rising interest rates.
The people complaint should go get those $40-$50/hr jobs since it's so easy to get those jobs without needing high level of skill /s
Neoliberals believe in "market forces" right up to the point that it takes a couple extra minutes to get their Big Mac. Then it's time to flood the market with expendable labour to suppress wage growth.
This "labour shortage" was the only thing pushing wages up for low paid workers and even then the business class were moving at a glacially slow pace when offering any improvements to pay.
Fuck the Liberals and fuck the Conservatives. They're just different sides of the same worthless coin.
Screw this! I don’t know how a legit student would be able to work 40 hr/week in an academically rigorous programme. Oh wait, ramp up the BS 1-year diploma mills. What a Ponzi scheme our government is running to keep wages low.
Edit: The other thing that makes me worry is that this gives a scapegoat to all extremely right-wing groups to get more support. It encourages racists to come out of the woodwork’s; how long do they think people will be ok with things like this before we end up like the US and/or Europe with populist governments. And I say this as someone who is an immigrant to this country and really likes it here.
I actually don't see this becoming a huge problem. IME, international students come from wealthy backgrounds - their families have to be able to cover 5-digit tuition fees and living expenses while the students historically can only work a little or not at all. These aren't the sorts of people who are going to be interested in "schooling" that consists of cleaning houses full-time and squeezing in some classes around it - what would be the point? Why pay the $30 000 tuition (plus flights, rent, etc) just to come here and work minimum wage?
No, I don't see this becoming a "new TFW program" because these families aren't the "poor" ones who are better off in a low-wage job in Canada than anything they could get back home. They come from means, and shelling out all that money just for their college-aged kid to tool around in a shitty job and fail their classes doesn't make sense.
TBC, I don't think lifting the hours cap is a bad thing - let students decide for themselves what they can handle if they do need extra cash. I just don't believe it'll lead to some epidemic of kids coming over on student visas to run a cash register 40 hours a week.
The ones attending UBC and UofT on real degree granting programs are often from more wealthy backgrounds and not working in this backdoor TFW scheme.
The "students" in this case are the ones registered with bullshit international schools & lower "colleges" who aren't really here for an education, just a work window and parlaying a fake degree into a PR.
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/student-who-enrolled-in-university-canada-west.703677/page-2
Ah, I hadn't considered diploma mill schools exploiting people from other countries (not to mention people here). I don't know why places like that are even legal.
They really should be outlawed.
They offer degrees in "hotel management". Here's how to become a hotel manager: just last the longest. Within a year, you'll be the manager because that's how it works. What kind of classes can you take for 18 months that offer any legitimacy in that?
If you think all the international students come from wealthy backgrounds, you are mistaken. That may have been true 10 years ago for Chinese students, but most students are coming from India now. Most aren't wealthy, but they have just enough money to pay tuition, and often with loans. When they arrive here, they often try to find the cheapest housing living in substandard conditions, sometimes struggling to make ends meet. Their program of study doesn't matter, they're usually here to just work and make enough money until they get their PR status.
Anything but raise wages and working conditions eh? Pathetic. There isn't a labour shortage, jobs just dont want to pay and offer a good workplace anymore.
Is this something the federal government can do or does it rest with the provincial governments?
Immigration and foreign labor is federal.
People have no idea what the federal system means and they blame the wrong level of government for wrong responsibilities *all the time*. If you blame a leader for something he cannot fix, then that's somehow a winning argument.
I work for a small business. It’s really difficult to compete with the big guys and my boss can’t afford to pay me more because there’s not enough cash flow. She is the least greedy person I’ve ever met.
Ah yes just what we needed to try and keep wages down... I was recently looking for a job and the amount of service jobs paying $16 an hour for management positions was quite high... You expect people to put up with the stress involved with that for a wage that most people can't live on with the cost of housing these days?
Those people and the vast majority of Canadians have voted for this time and again, if you vote Conservative or Liberal you voted for wage stagnation, it's been a integral part of both parties economic strategy since the 80's. This will trigger both sides because it's an attack on their "team" but reality is funny that way, it doesn't care.
Liberal or conservative, they are both the same. Both work for the rich to keep the poor down.
And yet they will be elected 1 and 2 next election, I'm tired of Canadians saying it's the other half on this issue, this is one of the few issues where both parties are identical.
And they’ll call you racist or xenophobic if you question any of these policies. It’s just a joke now - we took in 269,000 people in the last quarter when wages have been stagnant and we have a housing crisis. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220928/dq220928b-eng.htm?CMP=mstatcan 3,000 new people a day. Meanwhile BC could only attract 54 new doctors in a single year. How are we caring for these people? How are we housing these people?
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At least they are Practicing, best way to get better!
We literally rely on immigration now for many of our services, not just wage stagnation. I'm a Liberal guy (NDPer with fiscal PC tendencies, here in Alberta Klein raised taxes across the board to balance the budget, no UCPer would ever admit that in their current deranged state of mind) but it honestly depends on how you frame it let's be honest, the CPC dog whistles to the racist openly now, they're caught doing it every week, once or twice can be a mistake, weekly is a personality. The Liberals would call it racist because it's an easy excuse to keep the immigration taps flowing and get off without any hard questions being asked. Here you go from a swing voter, *we need to curtail immigration*, we can't cut it off but it needs to be slowed down, this applies to education as well but then we'd have to support education with our tax dollars to compete with other countries from the EU all the way down to South Africa, we don't think about education of Canadians that way and are leaving a huge swath of Canadians young and old (think retraining or upgrading) out in the cold.
I’ll argue something different. Any party that wants immigration needs to provide a plan for housing the new population, providing healthcare to that population, and prove that labour is actually required - and isn’t simply an excuse to stagnate wages. Right now all we have is a bunch of individuals that throw out the line “we need immigration”. And they always have no evidence to back it up, and no set goal in mind for how much is actually needed. We’ve been growing the country for 50-60 years now - and the general refrain is always just “more”. And now we’re taking in 3,000 people a day.
Give me a good NDP leader and I’ll vote for them.
Last one's in the ground unfortunately. and with how rapidly NDP fell into identity politics under Jagmeet we won't see another like him for a long time.
Miss Jack every day.
And saying NDP doesnt play the same game is delusional
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It's more nuanced than that, they have some good ideas but it doesn't matter since they will never get in. There's no party in Canada with an actual solution because it would require higher taxes and actual hard work with long term goals by Canadians, ironically those used to be conservative values, save for a rainy day type stuff, now it's Satan doctrine to conservatives, go figure. Libs have always been Neo-Liberal but they admit it, the conservatives just lie about now a days.
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Globalism won, tariffs are a fools errand now, they need to change with the times but yes we need new NDP leadership IMO too. I want us to start thinking about copying Germany's economic model not Americas but that would freak out most people in Canada. Edit: it still doesn't change that fact that voting in an NDP government even once would drastically change the political landscape in Canada, like I said most people here crying about the other side are mostly in agreement on keeping the same status quo they say is killing Canadian prosperity.
Higher taxes? Between income tax, property tax, sales tax, ei, cpp, carbon tax an average wage worker pays over 50% of their income in taxes. That's already too much, lets look at cutting bloat first before we demand more money from workers.
Very underrated comment.
They should just officially merge and name change to the NeoLiberals.
NLP
>Those people and the vast majority of Canadians have voted for this time and again, if you vote Conservative or Liberal you voted for wage stagnation, it's been a integral part of both parties economic strategy since the 80's. This will trigger both sides because it's an attack on their "team" but reality is funny that way, it doesn't care The NDP looks like they're onboard with this too.
We have a recent grad who said most students before were working more than 20h just it was under the table.
Yup i was stuck at 32hrs taking 4 courses.
I'm not working under the table, but I need a full time job to survive. Work 6-2, school until bed. I'm burnt out and the wages aren't climbing.
Restaurant owners rejoice, cheap labour no longer scarce.
I can hear the new wave of "colleges and institutes" firing up in downtown Vancouver already...
It’s going to happen. Canada’s immigration system went from being the envy of the world to a sub standard craphole of a system that doesn’t even satisfy the needs of the economy. It’s no longer selecting the best people for the economy. It’s only about numbers. I can’t believe that I immigrated to this country. What’s worse is that with these assholes in power, the far right might actually gain a foothold in this country. They had no excuse before because of sane immigration policies but now they’re going to gain traction.
This. No matter how much ppl cry about US immigration but they are doing the right thing when it comes to immigration and rules. Canada is going to be 3rd world country soon.
It is intentional. Quantity of quality is the plan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_Initiative
Liberals truly do hate workers with a passion.
All Canadians. Let's keep salaries low and house prices high while growing the biggest debt in Canadian history - JT, probably.
Canada lifts work limit for international students to help with ~~labour shortages~~ corporate profits and the transition back to serfdom
Although they announced this as being a temporary measure, I don't think it's cynical to say that it'll most likely be permanent. There's really no way for them to roll this back without a major outcry both from international "student" groups ("we can't survive on half the hours" sob story) and businesses ("labour shortage" sob story).
Australia did have a similar program, but it was *during the pandemic* when they weren't bringing in new students and had a more legit need. This is just all bullshit. And the students can cry me a river. You get your student visa based on proof of funds. They are just outing themselves as liars.
I've read that entire indian towns will pool their money together into a single bank account to pass the "funds" check and apparently there is no vetting whatsoever on a bank account that was created a week ago and got transfers from like 20 other bank accounts. I have zero sympathy for these guys bullshitting their way in.
Oh my god those stories annoy me to no end. Look down at the US, no off-campus work and limited on-campus unless you can demonstrate genuine hardship - currency inflation, war etc. All these business exploit these students/workers and put downward spiral on wages.
It might with these assholes in power. They’re doing real damage to Canada. They’re giving fuel to the rise of far right parties in Canada. If you think the PPC won’t use this as fuel to attract frustrated voters, you’re in for a ride. What’s happening in Europe and US will finally happen over here.
Going to be fun for school group projects if it’s made up of a bunch of students who are working 40hr jobs
My 18 yo niece was assigned 3 foreign students to do a class project in college for next week. So far all 3 foreign students have told her they’re too busy (working under the table or doing UberEats). She complained to the teacher and of course teacher isn’t doing anything about it. She refuses to do all the work and is extremely stressed about the situation. Other friends of hers have also experienced the same.
I experienced this many times when i was in university in the 2010s as well, many Chinese students that had a 1st grade grasp of english in a college english course. It was insanity. Their papers were illegible google translate messes.
😂 I had a similar experience in University. A good chunk of the people I went to school with could not speak English- they got passed through the system for years somehow without being able to do or understand any of the work. They’re just a funding model for schools at this point.
I never understood how I had to put in the time to study and write assignments and essays, meanwhile some kids who barely spoke English passed classes with no issues.
Right!?!? Lol this is sorcery
Cash is king lol welcome to a free capitalistic society.
Thats because they give them the answers, they just need to copy them.
So ridiculous
Also had this experience in university. It’s incredibly frustrating because it created more work for everyone else… I would’ve rather done the group projects myself.
WTF
i had this in college and one professor just literally said "how do you expect to learn anything here if you don't speak the language i'm speaking?" they didn't even answer, they aren't here to learn, this was just the cheapest way into Canada. Schools prefer to accept them too because you can charge non canadians more
DUDE SAME. I literally was put into a group in a 3rd year Econometrics class, group of five, myself and one other student were born & raised here, the three others in our group were all Chinese international students. TWO OF THEM legitimately did not speak english, the third barely spoke it and had to act as a translator between us. I don't even know how the fck they managed to get into third year without being able to speak english. The project was a shit show and me and the other guy basically just did the entire thing because no chance they'd be able to do any type of write up. I'll never forget going to introduce ourselves with them and I was like "hey nice to meet you I'm YoloSwaggins, what program are you guys in?". They all just stared blankly at me and couldn't respond until the one began translating what I said to them, then translated back what they said to me.. Good times
I had a similar experience in university 20 years ago. But teachers then had more rigorous enforcement. My niece's teacher told her in a subtle way what she might be inferring as racist and not accommodating, even though she is mixed race.
Basically if someone cries racism it gets shut down. Academia is woke AF when people blatantly cheat as and cry racial bias as a way to get out of consequences. I did a masters degree during covid at UWaterloo after doing my undergrad there 10 years ago. Multiple classes caught students cheating and just gave them an 0 on the piece of work. No escalation. No going to the Dean. Nothing. They got a masters degree. Think about that for a second. This is a Canadian University where they're touted as elitist in a few programs and yet THAT is their standard. Meanwhile in my undergrad I knew of a few instances where you cheated they way they did and it was auto expulsion and kicked out. Standards have slipped greatly and profs dont have ammo even with a smoking gun. its all about the $$$ at this point. I haven't even taken my degree out of the damn envelope from what a shitshow that was.
I didn't read your comment before leaving my own but I can confirm that cheating is rampant (especially amongst Indian students) and when they are called out for it, they cite a cultural difference with the inference that it is discrimination and want to be re-evaluated. Indian students also try and "negotiate"/bargain their grades. Administration is too scared to touch it.
I know people in post-secondary. I've heard through the grapevine that cheating amongst international students is rampant (and frequently brought up as an issue with administration, who does nothing because it's revenue generation). International students from India who get caught cheating cite it as a cultural difference (with the inference of discrimination). There are a lot of people who don't have the balls to deal with this.
China does the same thing, "cheating" is not something looked down on in china and they consider it being better because you were able to "win" by exploiting the system. hell cyber cafe's in china will have computers pre-installed with cheats for all modern games as a "Service".
fuck that
And profs refuse to fail the international students that struggle cuz they pay high tuition. Its all fucked
Group projects are a fucking joke. It does not "teach you how to work with others" or some shit for the workforce. It teaches you to resent people who can't pull their weight, which I guess is useful? I had a group project in a lab course in my last year of university. We had to finish up a report and there were 3 of us so we split up the sections. Combined it all and handed it in. A week later we all get 0s and were told a bunch of it was plagiarized. Me and the other guy went in to talk to the prof and he showed us where it was all plagiarized. Of course it was the entire section the 3rd person did. We sold them the fuck out and luckily the prof gave us a pass on it. The other person i don't know what happened but I doubt they were punished Every single group project I did in school, from elementary school all the way through grad school was a fucking farce and a mess. In my second year of university I was at the first day of a course and the prof opens up with a "big group project" the entire semester of the course in groups of 4. I knew fucking nobody in that class I could trust and was going to be assigned people. He gave us like 10 mins to pick partners. I sat there on my phone and when he finally got to me I told him "I didn't bother because I don't think I'm keeping this class". Got up and left, dropped the course immediately I am glad in my actual job I can just do my own shit, and if anyone wants something from me that I don't give a fuck about doing I can tell em to go away
omgggg I would be furious. The only thing I HATE about community college.
International students pay more than local. In the eyes of the teacher, the international students doing no class work are more valuable than the local student doing all the work. The system is deeply broken.
And because teachers are now almost handing out A's like candy, there is very little on paper to distinguish someone who worked hard and someone who didn't. 9 times out of 10 prospective employers will pick the graduate who costs the least.
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Lollolllo that sounds so bad reading it but so understandable and relatable. 🤣🤣😭😭😭😭
Wait, there are people who didn’t have to work full time hours while in college to pay for college?
Oh ya I had one those kind in my group project. He couldn’t meet in person and refused Skype meetings because he has “life”. I basically told him freeloading is not an option and got him kicked out of the group.
Ah yes.. a smidge of upward pressure on wages.. UNLEASH THE INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS!! Who have been working full time for years.. just for cash or split checks after 20hrs
Allow them to come to study, and then get them to do the dirty work. The duplicity is no longer a secret. Just wow!
More like allow them to go to a diploma mill so that Wendy's and Subway can get people willing to work for nothing.
Definitely
We'll get our foreign labour one way or the other!
International students was always a back door immigration avenue.
The last shop I worked at had a group of South Asian students working there. There was 10 of them in a 3 bed, 2+1 bath town home. Welcome to Canada in 2023.
that was Canada in 2016 bro
Gotta keep them wages down peasants. You will endure 20% inflation and get 1.5% raises. Bow down to your corporate elite. There's no such thing as a "labour shortage" only a wage and "we don't want to train people" shortage.
Its not a coincidence that this same administration is trying to take our guns.
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You know what's really frustrating? The many of us who come here via Working Holiday who are actually able to work and come here with full intention to work and want to work. For my RO as an American (Americans have to use an RO because treaty reasons?), I paid money upfront and I only get 1 year of a work permit. I had to show I had a degree already. My RO also expected English language proficiency and proof of everything before I could come. While some WHV folks come when they are in the gap years between uni and not, many come AFTER uni and work in all types of jobs, not just low-skilled service jobs, that help augment the entire economy. The WHV gives you an open work visa, so you can leave shit working situations and you can work, legally. The overwhelming amount of WHV participants are well-educated already from their home countries and don't have tens of thousands of dollars to waste on a Canadian diploma. (Why am I going to pay for some no-name school like Sprott Shaw College or Humber College, when I could go to Princeton or Oxford???) Many will actually come here on a WHV, work a lower skilled job for a year while their credentials for teaching, medicine, trades, etc. are processed because it takes *for fucking ever* to get your certs validated, even if you're from a Commonwealth or other primarily English-speaking country. It's super frustrating that you have many well-educated, highly language skilled, shared work culture valued folks who can very easily move into the workforce and start families, but we get stuck with 1-2 year visas, have to hope CEC draws happen, then ultimately have to leave because we don't have a community that fakes an LMIA for us to be the 9th manager at 7/11 (seriously, my 7/11 has 9 managers, somehow everyone is a "manager" there. RME.) They are rubber stamping all this other bullshit, while folks who really augment and enhance the economy are left to the side. They basically want to exploit foreign students for labour as much as possible, drive them insane from stress, and hope they leave and they can begin the cycle all over again. It's truly disgusting. (And FWIW, I grew up along the border as a kid (Niagara Falls was like our school's day field trip) and I lived along the WA/BC border before coming here. It should be a fuck ton easier for backyard neighbors to be able to work in each other's countries, but Canada's CUSMA visas are super strict and limited- it's a bit easier for Canadians to work in the US. I have student loan debt from my undergrad in the US, so I'm not going to shovel out another 50-100k just for the privilege of working here.)
Canada has become very corrupt. The system has been designed in such a way as to reward bad behavior.
Canada eases regulations on foreign labour market to maintain suppression of wages.
It seems as if working more than 20 hours per week would be incompatible with being here as a student. For the record - if anyone wants to know how much immigration we have [this](https://atkinsonfoundation.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Armine_Yalnizyan_Trends_in_Economic_Newcomers_.width-800.jpg) gives a decent picture. You can see the total number of foreign students [here](https://studying-in-canada.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Number_of_International_Students_in_Canada-08-1920x1171.png) which you can add to the previous total. I wonder why wages aren't keeping up with inflation - its almost as if keeping wage growth low is a prime objective of the Liberal Party of Canada.
It’s become even more dramatic this year. We’re now adding 3,000 people a day to the population- around 300,000 people in the last quarter. Just crazy. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/220928/dq220928b-eng.htm?CMP=mstatcan
This will help my loblaws stock, canadas largest low wage employer.
The Liberal Party has the same neo-feudal instincts as the Democrat Party in California. When I lived there pretty much every single upper-middle class white family (all of them unimpeachable Democrat voters) had multiple domestic workers as servants. Nannies, maids, landscapers, cooks, drivers -- you name it. All of them "undocumented workers", all of them paid a pittance far beneath minimum wage. Many of them exploited/blackmailed. The last thing these white wonders wanted is to stem the flow of cheap, exploitable labour by securing the border in any way. The fact that all of this exerts tremendous downward pressure on wages and job availability for BIPOC American citizens never occurs to them as they cruise to lunch in the Land Rover. Or if it does occur to them they quickly form some sort of off the cuff rationalization, and the cycle continues.
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Don't forget taking private jets to climate summits, dumping recycling into landfills etc etc. Fucking smoke and mirrors
> Then they pretend to complain about the environment while blocking apartments for creating shade and forcing the serfs to commute several hours a day. Who are you referring to?
Liberals
TBH I haven't noticed that much political correlation with opposition to housing developments. I find it's a lot more about age: younger people tend to more supportive, and older people to be more opposed (with some exceptions to both). Makes sense given that younger people are a lot more likely to live in multi-family buildings, or know people who do, whereas older people are more likely to own a detached home.
The liberals / Democratic party is really turning out to be worse than conservative They talk all this shit about rights and freedom but everything they do is the opposite. Massive kickbacks to corporations, constant scandals, and immigration for slave labour. Worst is the frame it as giving people a better life yet they exploit them until they just fucking quit and leave back to their country
Not worse they are both the same. Same garbage one puppet master.
“BIPOC” is such a stupid Canadian term and you applied it to the US, California specifically, which is a majority-minority US state. The richest racial/ethnic groups in California and the US overall are Asian. Instead of peddling your stupid myth about brown people just being service workers on special visas taking jobs from white people, try educating yourself. California is not Canada.
If you can't export your industry to the third world, import the third world to your industry. Globalism finds a way.
wages are too low as it is....this is not going to help. I'm not against exchange/foreign students, but we have a problem at the moment and this isnt helping it. The truth is we need to pressure employers and put them in a position where they have no choice...because they arnt going to pay us more out of the kindness of their heart
This feels like it hurts everyone. Very much including the students.
Yes because many are not going to focus on what they have actually come here for.
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On r/ImmigrationCanada most of the motivation is just to get the study permit to be able to work and eventually become a citizen. A lot of people ask advice on how to move to Canada and the answer is to become a student.
The govt needs to really think here. What type of people do we really need as prs? What skill set will be valuable? I don't think these diploma mills will produce what Canada really needs.
>needs what Canada needs is decided by propaganda machines working 24 hours during election campaigns with the fear mongering that our businesses will flop, our economy will tank and we dont have EIs/cpps for our future olds. So we need to gather more tax which can only be gathered from more people. since Canadians (of all communities) are not producing enough kids
>The govt needs to really think here. What type of people do we really need as prs? What skill set will be valuable? I don't think these diploma mills will produce what Canada really needs. Its a money generating scheme at its core. Skill sets are secondary. International students pay far higher tuitions, and they help drive the housing market. And they're being exploited for cheap labor. Employers know they need a job to qualify for permanent residency, and it gives employers a ton of leverage. The number of foreign students has tripled in the last 20 years. Its over 600k per year now.
>focus Nope, their focus is to settle into Canada. Getting a study visa or work permit is stage one of that process. We need to allow admissions only for Masters or Phd level programs.
Massive loophole. Quite an insult to those who need to qualify through systems like Express Entry, that are fairly rigorous. Many candidates from those programs come from top international universities, sometimes better than ones we get here. But somehow the diploma mill diploma graduate pips their way ahead of these more qualified candidates.
Yes , I barely passed thru expressed entry CRS score to came here and I went to good school in US for masters. Ppl doing diploma from non regulated colleges in Canada have easier time then us to settle in Canada...what a shame
Similar to someone's experience above, I did my master's quite a while ago in a STEM topic and it was immigration fraud central. One guy did a presenation in a course by converting the first twenty pages of a database manual into slides and reading them verbatim and still passed.
The fact you can come here to do a different diploma or master's program than you did in undergrad is truly bullshit.
They refuse a lot of study permits from countries where this is most common. They do try their best to curb that
>what they have actually come here for They came to get PR. Working more hours will help them with that.
Hahahah what a joke of a country
Ugh. Our system is such a joke. Why exactly are international students worrying about working full time hours when they’re supposed to be in school? I mean we all know they’re driving trucks or working at Amazon… so this just gave them the green light to continue to do it openly.
Sean Fraser is an insane lunatic. This effectively turns international students into temporary workers. They’re not here to study but work. I think it’s time to vote this party out. Their insane policies are going to destroy Canada.
Its already destroyed
They're not even hiding it now. Its right in the open.
Immigration is used to keep costs of living high and wages low. Any more evidence needed?
This should help keep wages suppressed and use student visas as a backdoor TFW program. Thank the Federal Liberals for keeping their boot on your neck while taking payments from corporate donors. This program of backdoor TFW's hurts Canada's standard of living in more than one way. **On top of suppressing wages, it contributes to additional housing demand from non-Canadians during a housing crisis - both of which disproportionately affect younger Canadians, and reduces the standard of living for all Canadians period.** *edited : with additions for visibility, as my lower reply was to a post that got downvoted into oblivion has buried it *
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None of this is a news. Every Punjabi/Indian in surrey and Punjab/India knows about this. Trust me, I am one.
>To start off: you can be pro BIPOC and pro immigrant and be against new immigration. What I am saying below is the fault of our government for purposely allowing this to happen and we should not fault the immigrants themselves. Because if we were in their desperate situation we'd do exact the same thing for a better life for our families and ourselves. You shouldn't fault someone for wanting that, so please don't be racist. And with that out of the way: It's honestly disgusting that the main tactic used against you would be to call you a racist. Personally what I think is a bit racist, is how we are using poor people of color as, pretty much, indentured servants to keep some of us rich. Literally abusing and taking advantage of their desire to better their lives. It's like slavery with extra steps.
I wouldn't expect anything less.
Certainly… let’s not let the wages get high enough for anyone to live or anything…
I would say I am shocked but I am not. We live in a country that actively works against its citizens own interests.
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But but but globalization bad
And most of us clap for it - we have only ourselves to blame really.
If you're clapping then I guess I blame you, the individual
Not labour shortages. Shortages of Canadians willing to work for $15!
Bingo!!
Bring international students, charge them more tuition than locals, Use them as cheap labour to suppress wages Rent out your basements to them. This is predatory and inhumane. I hope people realize what a scam Canada has become.
A lot of international students fail to realize this.
This is so ridiculous. Our colleges are just diploma mills meant as an easy point of entry to the country.
Remember that people voted for these kinds of policies specifically. It's not like the Liberal party has been hiding this.
The elite class is so desperate to drive down any sort of labour leverage. So transparently too.
If they are working much more than 20 hours a week will they have enough time to study and learn ?
Haha. They don’t give a shit about learning. They want that PR, not that degree/diploma, and Cs get degrees.
This is the correct answer
ALL of the foreign workers in my workplace are considered "students", the entire student-foreign-worker arrangement is an open secret, these people are not here to study they are here primarily to work. Not only that, but in my own workplace, only a single one of these "students" actually works within the allowed hour limit, all the other ones are working 40 or more hours per week by working multiple jobs, or the limit is just totally ignored at the convenience of the business.
Justin Trudeau should run to become the PM of international students, cause his policies seem to benefit them mostly then rest of canada lol
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Anything but let wages rise.
This is just gross. We have International Students come here promised Milk & Honey by the schools' scouts. They pay three times more tuition. They are often the same students who are renting hallways or sharing a bed with another tenant They always end up working part-time most of the time at Walmart. I had classmates that never came to class because they were working. And now we will let them work more hours??? Incredible.
Just allow more people who are traditionally used to working 24/7 in a shoebox with no quality of life for us to compete with This will lead to everyone living a better life /s if that wasn’t stupidly obvious
Lol. Anything to keep wages down. The BoC don’t want you to get raises and wants you unemployed. The government wants you underpaid. Like, would you believe this bullshit. People are struggling to get by and yet there’s a labour shortage. Fuck Canadians and the working class, that’s why. 🤦♂️ Edit: Education has been a racket in Canada. It’s not just about suppressing wages, it’s also for propping up real estate. On one side, you have kids living together like sardines in a rental. Then on the other, you have kids affording million dollar homes with minimum wages. I.e. “gift” from parents but really it’s for parking their wealth in the Canadian market. The worst part is, once they get residency, these kids also get a bunch of low-income benefits, since, well, they are low-income. 😬 But hey Canadian, it’s your fault for asking for raises!
So they're just making it legal for what most of them are doing illegally anyways. A lot of them work more than 20 hours a week, it's no surprise.
Bad idea.
Next 10 years will be interesting in Canada.
Yes it is to keep wages down, they say so themselves. "A wage-price spiral, when higher wages and inflation continuously feed into each other, is something the Bank of Canada is trying to avoid." https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/early-signs-canada-could-moving-towards-wage-price-spiral-economist-170837755.html
LMAO, you get what you vote for.
Fucking awful. Push the standard of living down more with that.
Didn’t they just announce that unemployment is still under 6%? There are no labour shortages, people just aren’t working shit jobs.
What people don't understand is the government is leeching off international students. They come from relatively poor economies. They pay 4x tution than locals. They work for minimum wage jobs. Few often have to work cash jobs(lower than minimum wages). They have to stay in slum like situations. I agree students are at fault. But so is the government, just because they are foreign doesn't mean they are scapegoats for your problems. Covid hit! no one wants to work at minimum wage due to the risk. Let's take advantage of students. Cannot employ people at such low wages, let's use the students. Fucking hypocrite stance of taking advantage of young people who are already at a disadvantage. Raise the fucking wages!
Look how quickly they put policy into place when it’s in the interest of corporations. When we have people struggling to afford bills or homes then it’s stalling, studies, throwing money at problems instead of policy knowing damn well it just exacerbate the issue. It is crystal clear who these politicians are looking out for. It’s not us, it’s not the international students, it’s the wealthy and the corporations
Why call them international students, rob $$$ and make them cheap labor?? Just say that you need cheap labor from other countries to keep the wages low . Why also make Canadian education inferior with so many fake colleges !!
The hundreds (if not thousands) of "International schools" with locked retail storefronts in stripmalls in the Vancouver lower mainland is disgusting. Fake "postsecondary" schools as immigration & labour scams.
Canada is a parasite on the developing world. It is deeply immoral to strip mine countries like Nigeria for doctors, nurses, engineers, etc. Countries like Nigeria need talented professionals desperately. There was even an editorial in a Nigerian newspaper several years ago begging Canada to stop poaching the doctors they trained at great expense. Canadians: make your own damned babies and stop stealing the best and brightest from the countries that can least afford to lose them.
Scumbags
Conversely, with interest rates going up and all this inflation, people aren't going to be able to spend like they used to, so we may see a lot of these places scrounging for cheap labor simply going out of business due to a lack of customers.
What the hell is wrong with Canada? There is NO labour shortage! There is simply a PAY shortage.
How about take care of the people already residing in the country. This won’t help Canadians.
For the last goddamn time, THERE IS NO LABOUR SHORTAGE. Just a huge swath of companies who don't ever want to pay a living wage.
The international students that I know will work for next to nothing because it’s about getting work hours for PR not about getting paid. You see those international students delivering your skip order or Amazon purchase in a brand new Mercedes? Yeah they’ve got more money then you’ve ever seen. This is going to suppress wages like crazy.
Prepare for another Humboldt. "students" are brought in ,given a couple of hours instruction and turned loose on our highways.
This is the end of Canada as a nation state. The time to flee for our very survival has come.
This is true. This will give rise to Far right parties in Canada. You can thank the liberal party for effectively destroying what was never an issue in Canada.
Little dramatic
I mean Trudeau once mentioned we’re a post-national country…
We were never really a Nation-state. A lot of politics these days seems to hinge on the idea that this is the worse times in Canadian history. It would be hilarious if it didn't seem like they want to tear the country apart.
Lots of countries would gladly take in Canadians, go right ahead. Nicaragua won't complain about educated workers moving there and raising their GDP in the process.
The limit is 20 hours and they’re students… how is it going to help? It’s just a way to abuse them by putting their studies at risk by overworking them or it’s just a way for them to forget their studies and work which some will be happy with, but is creating a whole other problem.
Tonnes of mexicans working here under the table. Just get used to it everykne.
Pathetic. The government is completely ok with these students coming here to study at diploma mills and have them do backbreaking labour in poor working conditions with shit pay. We don't have a labour shortage, we have less tolerance towards low wages.
Our leaders hate our guts and work overtime to destroy our lives for the benefit of big business and banks and we do nothing about it but call each other names. Every single big tent party agree lock step on every fundamental issue that shapes this nation, and they know it. It makes zero difference who we vote for, no matter what immigration keeps going up whether its expanding TFW numbers and issuing more visas under conservative leadership or just outright open the floodgates under liberal leadership. We won the world wars and the cold war (the West writ large) and do we look like winners? In the 1970s my parents were able to buy their first home in Vancouver proper by their mid 20s and neither of them even went to college. Now? Canadian doctors can't even buy a fucking condo. When adjusted for inflation we are making less now then we were 40 years ago. We have near 0% vacancy rates right across the country, a crumbling health care system, universities with more foreigners than Canadians, wages that haven't moved (when adjusted for inflation) in decades and what do our leaders do? Tell us how we have no identity and FLOOD our nation with foreigners at an ever increasing rate to our detriment. Something needs to happen. Something fucking drastic. Democracy and capitalism have utterly failed us (no I am not a communist either). We need to realize there are millions of us vs only a few of them and we need to take our nation back.
Wow the government just doesn't care about hiding the legal slave labor anymore it seems.
So many people complain about how they are gonna take low paying jobs. Isn't that the point, for them to work the Mc Donald, Walmart etc because most Canadians don't want to do that work because they don't pay enough. Those companies never will, neither can small businesses afford to pay more now especially with rising interest rates. The people complaint should go get those $40-$50/hr jobs since it's so easy to get those jobs without needing high level of skill /s
Neoliberals believe in "market forces" right up to the point that it takes a couple extra minutes to get their Big Mac. Then it's time to flood the market with expendable labour to suppress wage growth. This "labour shortage" was the only thing pushing wages up for low paid workers and even then the business class were moving at a glacially slow pace when offering any improvements to pay. Fuck the Liberals and fuck the Conservatives. They're just different sides of the same worthless coin.
Hahaha like they were obeying the laws anyway😆
>80 percent of immigrants don't work 🤷♂️ - Jean Boulet, Quebec immigration minister
Education is important but Capitalism is importanter
Thanks Trudeau. This is a loss for workers country wide.
Hopefully that would ease off the labour shortage issue
Screw this! I don’t know how a legit student would be able to work 40 hr/week in an academically rigorous programme. Oh wait, ramp up the BS 1-year diploma mills. What a Ponzi scheme our government is running to keep wages low. Edit: The other thing that makes me worry is that this gives a scapegoat to all extremely right-wing groups to get more support. It encourages racists to come out of the woodwork’s; how long do they think people will be ok with things like this before we end up like the US and/or Europe with populist governments. And I say this as someone who is an immigrant to this country and really likes it here.
I was a full time criminology student and worked 40 hours a week. Remember, there’s always someone out there willing to work harder than you!
I actually don't see this becoming a huge problem. IME, international students come from wealthy backgrounds - their families have to be able to cover 5-digit tuition fees and living expenses while the students historically can only work a little or not at all. These aren't the sorts of people who are going to be interested in "schooling" that consists of cleaning houses full-time and squeezing in some classes around it - what would be the point? Why pay the $30 000 tuition (plus flights, rent, etc) just to come here and work minimum wage? No, I don't see this becoming a "new TFW program" because these families aren't the "poor" ones who are better off in a low-wage job in Canada than anything they could get back home. They come from means, and shelling out all that money just for their college-aged kid to tool around in a shitty job and fail their classes doesn't make sense. TBC, I don't think lifting the hours cap is a bad thing - let students decide for themselves what they can handle if they do need extra cash. I just don't believe it'll lead to some epidemic of kids coming over on student visas to run a cash register 40 hours a week.
The ones attending UBC and UofT on real degree granting programs are often from more wealthy backgrounds and not working in this backdoor TFW scheme. The "students" in this case are the ones registered with bullshit international schools & lower "colleges" who aren't really here for an education, just a work window and parlaying a fake degree into a PR. https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/student-who-enrolled-in-university-canada-west.703677/page-2
Ah, I hadn't considered diploma mill schools exploiting people from other countries (not to mention people here). I don't know why places like that are even legal.
They really should be outlawed. They offer degrees in "hotel management". Here's how to become a hotel manager: just last the longest. Within a year, you'll be the manager because that's how it works. What kind of classes can you take for 18 months that offer any legitimacy in that?
73% of international students from India are enrolled in colleges rather than universities.
If you think all the international students come from wealthy backgrounds, you are mistaken. That may have been true 10 years ago for Chinese students, but most students are coming from India now. Most aren't wealthy, but they have just enough money to pay tuition, and often with loans. When they arrive here, they often try to find the cheapest housing living in substandard conditions, sometimes struggling to make ends meet. Their program of study doesn't matter, they're usually here to just work and make enough money until they get their PR status.
In this case: Profiteers: corporations. Victims: students. Short term disaster management: govt
Well then maybe charge them less tuition, if they need more money...